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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 2: A production of iHeart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 2: My name is Matt our Powell. Noel is on adventures

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Speaker 2: and will be returning shortly.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul the eclipse decand most importantly, you are here.

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Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Matt.

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Speaker 3: Funny story back when our office was at Pont City Market,

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Speaker 3: I was at the little bodega downstairs and I was

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Speaker 3: buying a Coca Cola Classic and the cashier at the place,

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Speaker 3: really cool guy named Dylan. He said, you know, man,

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Speaker 3: at some point in your life, your health will become

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Speaker 3: the most important part of your existence. It's really only

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Speaker 3: a matter of when it becomes the most important part.

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Speaker 2: Ah. But the most important question for that story is

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Speaker 2: was it a plastic bottle or a glass bottle?

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Speaker 3: Everybody check out our episode of microplastics, also the one

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Speaker 3: where we ruin the concept of recycling.

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Speaker 2: But it's also one of those. Is the superior product

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Speaker 2: I would argue, well, I guess it's changed now a

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Speaker 2: little bit.

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Speaker 3: The glass bottle though, Yeah, the big one though, right

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Speaker 3: right here we go, that's our big salad argument. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean, but this sounds like a lot to drop

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Speaker 3: on someone when they're buying Minnesota. But in full context,

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Speaker 3: you know where we usually make friends with folks wherever

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Speaker 3: we go. So Dylan and I knew each other pretty

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Speaker 3: well by that point, and he had he had a

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Speaker 3: really solid perspective. You know, we know that small lifestyle

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Speaker 3: changes can lead to huge results over time. Fewer sugary drinks,

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Speaker 3: for example, or just taking a daily walk. At the

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Speaker 3: heart of every single piece of advice from a medical professional,

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Speaker 3: from a weight loss expert, from a dietitian, nutritionist, what

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Speaker 3: have you. At the heart of it, the advice is

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Speaker 3: always going to be to create a calorie deficit, to

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Speaker 3: use more energy than one consumes, and so exercise, diet,

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Speaker 3: these can all play a role in helping you be

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Speaker 3: a more healthy person. And not for nothing have these

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Speaker 3: all become multi billion dollar industries in Matt Not to

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Speaker 3: put us both on the spot, but I think we've

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Speaker 3: both been exploring just small changes that can help you

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Speaker 3: feel healthier and indeed become healthier.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. Cutting out most well, I would

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Speaker 2: say ninety five percent of sugared drinks changed my life,

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Speaker 2: and regular exercise changed my life. And it is what

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Speaker 2: you're pointing out here is super important for this episode.

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Speaker 2: Anytime I've ever gone to a doctor, a physician that

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Speaker 2: I trusted and went in, let's say I had to

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Speaker 2: temporarily get prescribed some kind of medicine. At the end

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Speaker 2: of that conversation. When I'm being prescribed medicine, it's that

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Speaker 2: statement you just said. Also, diet an exercise, you know,

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Speaker 2: just like watch what you eat, try and me healthy

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Speaker 2: about it, and get regular exercise. But yes, also take

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Speaker 2: this medicine from this giant pharmaceutical company because it might

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Speaker 2: help you, but you know, you can make yourself healthy

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 3: Also, yeah, I love it because you know, shout out

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Speaker 3: to the medical professionals in the crowd that diet and

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Speaker 3: exercise sort of that coda that Morris, that speaking point.

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Speaker 3: They say it every time because it is so often ignored.

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Speaker 3: There is not a silver bullet, magic pill that replaces

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Speaker 3: calorie deficit.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, calorie deficit massive, massive, But also you know,

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Speaker 2: nutrient rich food, which is not the easiest thing to get.

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Speaker 2: It's not the easiest way. Putting that into your lifestyle

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Speaker 2: is not easy. I'm terrible at it. I'm so bad.

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Speaker 2: Give me a ham sandwich and some some freaking jalapeno chips.

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Speaker 2: Let's go. That's my lunch. All good, almost no nutrients

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Speaker 2: in there.

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Speaker 3: Well, you get your daily dosa, ham.

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Speaker 2: And mayo, probably because that's the way I roll, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: and probably hot sauce. But it's like, it is not

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Speaker 2: the easiest thing to do, especially with the way economies

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Speaker 2: are set up right now, with the way that's food access,

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Speaker 2: right It's just it all factors into today's subject.

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Speaker 3: And today's subject is not just the reality of exercise, diet, mortality,

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Speaker 3: and health. Specifically, we're looking at another multi billion dollar

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Speaker 3: industry at work in the US and indeed around the globe,

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Speaker 3: an entire cavalcade of companies, corporations, and at times conspiracies

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Speaker 3: built to convince you that a magic pill exists, or

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Speaker 3: a magic powder exists. It can cure almost anything that

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Speaker 3: ails you. That's right, folks, We said we were coming

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Speaker 3: for them, and this is the supplement episode. We were

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Speaker 3: talking a little bit off air. This is probably going

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Speaker 3: to be a series, depending on how you find it.

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Speaker 3: Fellow conspiracy realist, just a quick note swapping before we

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Speaker 3: started rolling, we were link ah so much here, but

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Speaker 3: here are the facts, Matt. Yeah, supple supplement. What's a supplement?

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Speaker 2: Uh, supplement? Well, though, it's usually a pill or a

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Speaker 2: powder or a liquid or something that you take on

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Speaker 2: a regular basis, usually daily, not always, but usually daily

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Speaker 2: that supplements literally, the meaning of that word gives you

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Speaker 2: a little extra of some vitamin or mineral or other

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Speaker 2: nutrient that you need, according to the manufacturers of this thing,

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Speaker 2: and potentially even a doctor or just someone on the

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Speaker 2: internet that said, hey, you got to take way more

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Speaker 2: zinc pal oh.

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Speaker 3: Step you know, Brian.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's literally meant to supplement the food that

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Speaker 2: you are already eating.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And of course we are not medical professionals, Paul, Matt

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Speaker 3: and myself have never pretended otherwise, which honestly puts us

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Speaker 3: a step ahead as some of the folks out there.

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Speaker 3: But we know these things that you're describing, Matt, are

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Speaker 3: inarguably true. All human beings require a constant pattern of

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Speaker 3: ingestion of minerals, vitamins, proteins, amino acid, different sorts of

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Speaker 3: bacterial material, bacterial material thing, let's keep it, yeah, drop

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Speaker 3: the beat anyway. There are no exceptions to this. The

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Speaker 3: body can encounter these substances in any number of ways,

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Speaker 3: sunlight or like you said, the food you eat, the

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Speaker 3: beverages you consume. Shout out dead pres Let your food

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Speaker 3: be your medicine. And there's not a way to I mean,

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Speaker 3: people have tried to make a one size fits all

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Speaker 3: list of nutritional guidelines, but that is somewhat of a

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Speaker 3: fool's errand because human bodies differ so widely, you know,

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Speaker 3: medical conditions, genetic legacies, physical activity. There isn't a panacea.

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Speaker 3: There is not a thing you can just to be

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Speaker 3: very clear, there is not a thing you can take

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Speaker 3: that can cure everything, because if there was, we would

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Speaker 3: all be taking it right now.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah. What we have our generalized ranges basically of

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Speaker 2: like a percentage or number of you know, parts per

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Speaker 2: million or billion that are in your blood or something

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Speaker 2: like that. When you're thinking about minerals or certain vitamins.

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Speaker 2: If you've ever gotten blood work done or gone in

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Speaker 2: for a physical, you've probably seen this. If you've taken

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Speaker 2: a look at the actual documentation you receive where you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're if the amount of magnesium in your blood

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Speaker 2: is in this pretty huge range, you're probably good, it says,

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Speaker 2: I mean, but again it you might need more because

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Speaker 2: of a specific thing going on in your body, right,

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Speaker 2: or you might need way less because you've you've macro doosed,

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Speaker 2: or you know, maximum you've maxed out your whatever vitamin D.

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Speaker 2: There we should get into that, we think we will.

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Speaker 2: There are a couple of these vitamins and supplements that

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Speaker 2: I know I've taken in the past where I've just

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Speaker 2: taken a lot because I was super low, but I

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Speaker 2: didn't know you can. You can't overdose in the same

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Speaker 2: way you can on you know, an narcotic, but you

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Speaker 2: can definitely get way too much of certain substances in

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Speaker 2: your body that are recommended, like in a multivitamin.

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Speaker 3: Or something, and then they may have bad effects. You

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Speaker 3: have deletarious consequences. Yeah. And then also you could have

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Speaker 3: lifestyle changes that require a whole different sort of ingestion

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Speaker 3: or nutrition fingerprint, Like if you are carrying a child,

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Speaker 3: then the whole game changes. It's a different playground. There's

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Speaker 3: someone else inside you, for a minute, and you know

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Speaker 3: what they got different. They got a list of other

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Speaker 3: stuff they want. Yeah, they need folic acid stat and

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Speaker 3: they need all of it. Yeah, reduce a lot of

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Speaker 3: the other stuff come on too. Yes, it's to us

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Speaker 3: stuff right, And that's why this may be a series.

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Speaker 3: As human medical technology progressed in step with a better

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Speaker 3: understanding of biology, various taggheads throughout the history of civilization

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Speaker 3: figured out that a lot of people have an ongoing

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Speaker 3: lack of certain substances, and sometimes this is regionally dependent,

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Speaker 3: like if you live in a part of the world

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Speaker 3: where you don't get the same access to sunlight, you

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Speaker 3: might have to get one of those nifty little lamps.

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Speaker 3: And what they found is that some of this stuff

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Speaker 3: can be fixed pretty easily, like if you have an

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Speaker 3: iron deficiency, the steps you need to take to make

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Speaker 3: up for that deficiency or address it are fairly elementary.

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Speaker 3: But you might have some other problems. Like if you

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Speaker 3: are listening tonight and you practice a vegan diet, you

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Speaker 3: already know what we're going to say as a former

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Speaker 3: vegan folks. Vitamin B twelve. Are you even reading about this? Bet?

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Speaker 3: I think we talked about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have some vegan and or plant based

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Speaker 2: humans in my life, and that vitamin B twelve is important.

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Speaker 2: There's also there are a lot of things actually that

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Speaker 2: you need to supplement or probably should supplement if you're

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Speaker 2: fully plant based, right. I don't know, it's creepy because

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Speaker 2: if you lead that lifestyle, which is you know, popular

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Speaker 2: for a reason for you know, ethical reasons for all.

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Speaker 2: There's so many reasons to lead that lifestyle, it is

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Speaker 2: creepy to think that it may not give you everything

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Speaker 2: you need, so you do have to supplement quite a bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, for a time. I mean it becomes pretty controversial, right,

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Speaker 3: it verges upon the philosophical issues. Yeah, for a time,

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Speaker 3: you know, people were practicing veganism would take vitamin B

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Speaker 3: twelve supplements and not know that they were derived from

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Speaker 3: animal products, which is also very unethical on the part

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Speaker 3: of the people selling that stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's ethics. I would say, this whole

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Speaker 2: industry is with some strange ethical stuff. Yeah, when it

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Speaker 2: comes to things we said right at the top, like

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Speaker 2: people who are selling magic pills, right, which isn't the

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Speaker 2: case all the time. Very frequently that is not the

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Speaker 2: case in companies like massive billion dollar companies that are

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Speaker 2: selling supplements. But it's really crazy common in some of

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Speaker 2: the more offshoot like startups. Then you know, get out

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Speaker 2: there like oh wait, what does elderberry do? Holy mackerel?

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Speaker 3: Wow? Yeah, your old you're old. Your old high school

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Speaker 3: friend now is in an MLM and they have a

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Speaker 3: miracle berry that will totally fix your chakras. Oh you

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Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like it'll also make you taller,

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Speaker 3: you'll poop blue at school. Whatever, we're making it up.

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Speaker 2: See I'm over here talking smack about about Elderberry's, but

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Speaker 2: I've got a supplement that my son and I both

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Speaker 2: take every morning when he with me, Hey, let's do

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Speaker 2: let's just do the elderberries. It's like all right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is okay.

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Speaker 3: So what we're saying here is that the concept of

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Speaker 3: dietary supplements, it is so broad, right, it's such a

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Speaker 3: it's such an umbrella term. It encompasses so many possible things.

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Speaker 3: The only real difference, at least the way Uncle Sam

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Speaker 3: reckons it, as we'll see, is the difference between something

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Speaker 3: that naturally occurs in the food supply versus a drug.

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Speaker 3: So like your daily dose of elderberry is all well

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Speaker 3: and good, the FDA looks at that as something entirely

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Speaker 3: distinct from say, your daily dose of Riddlin or adderall

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Speaker 3: or zoloft or what are these other bottles here? But

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Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of like it's kind of like

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Speaker 3: saying saying dietary supplement to me is like saying chair.

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Speaker 3: We all get what a chair is, but not all

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Speaker 3: chairs are the same.

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Speaker 2: Oh there are some weird chairs, dude, things that shouldn't

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Speaker 2: even really be a chair, but you could sit on it.

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Speaker 4: You could get you know what I mean, if you

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Speaker 4: have enough confidence there what is not a chair, but

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Speaker 4: like a throne for example, that's a chair.

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Speaker 3: The electric chair is a chair. One is for kings

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Speaker 3: and one is for people being murdered. You'd probably prefer

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Speaker 3: one to the other, but they're both chairs, and so

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Speaker 3: it is. I would argue with dietary supplements.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which just goes back to kind of the I

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Speaker 2: guess the way we kind of define it at the top, right,

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Speaker 2: any supplemental vitamin or mineral that comes in either a pill,

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Speaker 2: a powder, or a liquid that is not a part

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Speaker 2: of the food you ingest when you're you know, partaking

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Speaker 2: in a meal or a snack or a whatever, however

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Speaker 2: it is you get food into your face.

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Speaker 3: Yes, into your food FaceTime. I mean yeah, this is

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Speaker 3: also an ancient technique, right. If you go back to

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Speaker 3: some of the earliest proven human civilizations, you'll see they

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Speaker 3: have these exhaustive list of herbs for very specific things.

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Speaker 3: And if you go to you know, ancient cultures like

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Speaker 3: in East Asia, right East and Central Asia, you'll see

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Speaker 3: there's this huge, very very dense history of herbal medicine

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Speaker 3: and it goes back We're talking thousands of years at

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Speaker 3: this point, and some of that traditional medicine really does

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Speaker 3: have efficacy. There's sand to it. It helps people other

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Speaker 3: things like ingesting mercury.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, nobody's going to bat a thousand, okay, least

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Speaker 2: for longer than a couple of games. So mercury was

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Speaker 2: a bit of a miss. But I love this idea

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Speaker 2: because nothing, in my opinion, at least this is my opinion,

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Speaker 2: nothing beats experience, nothing beats wisdom. So like been through

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Speaker 2: it before, isms, I think are actually are there important

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Speaker 2: here because if you've been testing out all the herbs

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Speaker 2: that are around you, Let's say a culture that's in

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Speaker 2: South America and they're aware of all the things, right,

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Speaker 2: all the things that grow, and they've been testing them

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Speaker 2: out for hundreds, if not thousands of years. You kind

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Speaker 2: of figure out, Okay, well, most of the time, this

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Speaker 2: actually works pretty well when somebody's got a stomach ache.

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Speaker 2: Most of the time, when someone's in a lot of pain,

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Speaker 2: this plant actually pretty great. Just you know, don't take

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Speaker 2: too much of it, or don't combine it with this

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Speaker 2: other plant, because we've seen see what happens there.

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Speaker 3: Which is crazy because Americans are great at moderation. Well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but on the other hand, if you if you say,

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Speaker 2: well that doesn't matter, that's not science, science or whatever

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Speaker 2: however you want to you know, poo poo that idea.

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Speaker 2: You then have to go to, okay, well, what are

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Speaker 2: the clinical trials that look at the substance that's inside

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Speaker 2: that plant, and how does that affect people versus a

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Speaker 2: placebo effect?

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Speaker 3: And who funds the trials?

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Speaker 2: That's it, man, And is there is there is there

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Speaker 2: money to be gained at some point in the chain there?

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Speaker 3: Right? I love that you're pointing this out. Yeah. As

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Speaker 3: of twenty twenty two, the Council for Responsible Nutrition, which

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Speaker 3: is a lobbying trade group for the dietary supplement industry.

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Speaker 3: They found that something north of seventy three to seventy

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Speaker 3: five percent of Americans use some kind of dietary supplement. Again,

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Speaker 3: it's such a broad term. It might be your flintstone vitamin.

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Speaker 3: It might be your gummy, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: It might be your magnesium, your niacin, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Well, it might be the garlic you use in a

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Speaker 2: specific diet from a specific region. It could be part

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Speaker 2: of a Mediterranean diet, which is you know, it's very

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Speaker 2: strange how that how it works out, because you can

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Speaker 2: find other places that say about third of Americans use

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Speaker 2: a supplement, but they're defining it as a specific pill

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Speaker 2: or something like.

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Speaker 3: That, and the stereotypes aren't true. By the way, a

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Speaker 3: lot of us do love garlic anyhow So every year

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Speaker 3: in the US alone, people spend about thirty five billion

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Speaker 3: dollars a little bit more actually on supplements. And I

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Speaker 3: love that you're pointing out the importance of definition there, right,

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Speaker 3: because is it a lifestyle choice to say you're gonna

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Speaker 3: eat more carrots or you're gonna eat more you know,

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Speaker 3: like a potassium rich food like bananas, versus taking a pill, Right,

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Speaker 3: it gets complicated. I mean, back in twenty sixteen, estimates

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Speaker 3: said the global supplement market will reach two hundred and

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Speaker 3: seventy eight point ZHO two billion dollars in the year

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, and surprisingly enough those numbers seem to

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Speaker 3: be on track. That was a pretty good prediction.

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Speaker 2: Well z that like globally globally yes, yeaheskay, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I could see that, because supplements are not just a

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Speaker 2: US thing, man, It's a big deal everywhere you go.

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Speaker 2: Some people even go to different countries to buy their

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Speaker 2: supplements in bulk and then smuggle them back over to

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Speaker 2: another country. Usually it's fine because again we'll talk about it,

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Speaker 2: but the FDA sky like, yeah, do what you want

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Speaker 2: with you, do what you want with your vitamin A man.

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Speaker 3: Shout out create them anyway. Yeah, we might say, We

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Speaker 3: might say, surely there are laws governing this stuff. You

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Speaker 3: can't sell people false hope, let alone poison and then

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Speaker 3: get away with it. The answer is, folks, yeah, there

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Speaker 3: are laws, but those laws, it seems, are outnumbered by far.

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Speaker 3: They are outnumbered by the conspiracies. Afoot. I suggest we

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Speaker 3: take a pause for a word from our sponsor. Find

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Speaker 3: some magic pill to align our chakras and segus. Here's

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Speaker 3: where it gets crazy, Matt. I love that you point

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Speaker 3: this out right from the jump. Yes, some things called

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Speaker 3: supplements actually do work. They can help you address problems

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Speaker 3: with your.

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Speaker 2: Health, depending on what you take them with, how you

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Speaker 2: take them, and what else you're eating. Yes, one hundred percent.

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Speaker 2: But there are other supplements to say wild stuff about

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Speaker 2: how they're going to fix your body in weird ways

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Speaker 2: or man using the phrase like preventing cancers or some

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Speaker 2: types of cancers, that is like one of the worst

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Speaker 2: things because we talked about on the show a lot

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Speaker 2: giving people false hope, right and accepting their money. That

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Speaker 2: is just it's just it's dirty.

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Speaker 3: It's so terrible too. Man like quote unquote preventing cancer.

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Speaker 3: It's got of like pursuit of happiness, you know what

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Speaker 3: I mean. There's a lot of cya that those folks

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Speaker 3: are saying.

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Speaker 2: And the mess you'll see is if you look at

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Speaker 2: a clinical study, is potentially reduces the occurrence of cancer,

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Speaker 2: and then it's by like a really low almost statistical

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Speaker 2: lean no you know, doesn't matter number.

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Speaker 3: And cancer is another umbrella term. So things that may

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Speaker 3: prevent one cancer may may do bubcus for a different

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Speaker 3: type of cancer or.

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Speaker 2: As is warned by people all over the place like

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Speaker 2: Good God, Harvard Health Publishing, and pen Medicine, they talk

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Speaker 2: about some supplements can actually feed certain types of cancer,

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Speaker 2: so it in all of them will will get even

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Speaker 2: deeper into later, but all of them say talk with

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Speaker 2: your doctor about specific supplements, especially if you've been diagnosed

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Speaker 2: with cancer, if you're like pretty extreme risk of cancer

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Speaker 2: from your family or something. Yeah. Uh, Because some supplements

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Speaker 2: are just like, hey, oh oh hi cancer, here's some fuel.

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Speaker 3: M hm, exactly, yeah, summer gas on the fire. Here's

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Speaker 3: a quick and dirty spoiler for differentiating between the actual

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Speaker 3: helpful supplements and the stuff that is just meant to

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Speaker 3: part you from your money. The actual helpful stuff does

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Speaker 3: not make outrageous claims. The things that are just like

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Speaker 3: this pill will give you x amount of your daily

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Speaker 3: recommended vitamin C intake or whatever. That's not an unreasonable claim.

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Speaker 3: The stuff that is like, have you ever wished you

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Speaker 3: had a tail or could fly or turn invisible in

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Speaker 3: the moonlight. That's not real, man.

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Speaker 2: I wish you well, though, that'd be great.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a it was a it was a

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Speaker 3: short Initiative bi Centrum. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess one of the biggest things here in

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Speaker 2: one of the reasons for this, this concept of knowing

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Speaker 2: what's in a substance and knowing that that thing actually works.

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Speaker 2: You're matching up so much different sets of research and

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Speaker 2: then also trusting that whatever is in that bottle is

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Speaker 2: actually what it says it is on that bottle. And

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Speaker 2: I don't want to jump too far ahead here, but

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Speaker 2: FDA regulations with Food and Drug Administration's regulations with these products,

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Speaker 2: they're not the same as if you go to the

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Speaker 2: store and you buy a product, like a food product

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Speaker 2: that is that has been approved by one of them,

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Speaker 2: or even a drug that has been approved by them.

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Speaker 2: It's it's not the same. But there are little icons,

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Speaker 2: I guess, logos you can find on certain supplements that

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Speaker 2: will let you know that a third party has said, yes,

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Speaker 2: this is in fact vitamin C.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's very very important because, believe it or not,

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Speaker 3: we always joke about how the US government has a

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Speaker 3: certain allowable amount of rat poop in cereal. We joke

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Speaker 3: about that because it is very true, and that is

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Speaker 3: actually better legislation than the stuff that applies to these

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Speaker 3: supplements by and large, you know, and we're being very

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Speaker 3: careful to say, of course, not all of them are

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Speaker 3: a grift, and some of them indeed are improving quality

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Speaker 3: of life for people. There was this great there was

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Speaker 3: this great Washington Post article from a while back where

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Speaker 3: in the journalist Tomorrow Hospital speaks with a bunch of

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Speaker 3: people because Tomorrow has a question that's bothering him. It's like, hey,

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Speaker 3: if people are spending billions of dollars in the US

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Speaker 3: alone every year on so supplements, why does it seem

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Speaker 3: like most of them don't really do anything? And so

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Speaker 3: he speaks with folks like Carol Haggins and Craig hop

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Speaker 3: who are medical professionals working in the organizations that monitor

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Speaker 3: this stuff. They're not FDA, but he speaks with Craig

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Speaker 3: Hop and Craig is the at the time, the deputy

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Speaker 3: director of the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health

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Speaker 3: in CCIH. And Nikki there we go, Oh, Nikki, here's

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Speaker 3: so fine. So he says he's talking to his journalist

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Speaker 3: and he goes, yeah, there is stuff that works in

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Speaker 3: the land of herbal medicine. He says, it's a pretty

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Speaker 3: short list. You got ginger for nausea, you got an

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Speaker 3: upset stomach, takes some peppermint. You want to disrupt difficult sleep,

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Speaker 3: then take melatonin. And he says also fish oil might

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Speaker 3: help with cardio vas Skiller disease. But we still don't

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Speaker 3: know the full story, because that's how scientists explore the world.

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Speaker 2: I took my dog to the vet this morning for

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Speaker 2: a thing, and I have previously given her fish oil

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Speaker 2: my dog penny for her coat, and it was prescribed

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Speaker 2: to her by a veterinary doctor to give like it's

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Speaker 2: to help the to put more oils basically on her

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Speaker 2: skin because she was having dry skin, and it completely

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Speaker 2: works for that with a dog. I've been you know,

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Speaker 2: the omega fatty acids and all that stuff. These things

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Speaker 2: are really hot and things when I say hot, as

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Speaker 2: in like people are excited about them, and they have

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Speaker 2: been for decades now. I still don't take fish oil

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Speaker 2: or whatever, but that's there is a hole in my

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Speaker 2: knowledge here where a doctor has prescribed fish oil for

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Speaker 2: my dog and I willingly give it to her because

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Speaker 2: a doctor told me to, and I perceive a change.

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Speaker 2: But I also have looked it up online and found

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Speaker 2: conflicting things about it, which just goes to show like

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Speaker 2: and again I'm looking up stuff about fisi oil in humans,

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Speaker 2: this doctor is provided prescribing it for a dog. There's

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Speaker 2: a vast difference between those two systems and how they

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Speaker 2: you know, take nutrients in and function. But I think

433
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: the overall thing it does is confuse US supplements in general.

434
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: Just in the end, after all the research that I've

435
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 2: done for this episode, that I know you've done for

436
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: this episode, we're sitting here, we're talking about it. Overall,

437
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: I just feel freaking confused, dude.

438
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that is to the benefit of the conspirators

439
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 3: who are doing this. So there's also you know, we

440
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: mentioned the idea like if we go to the vitamin

441
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 3: side of this versus the irbal side, right, we look

442
00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 3: into the idea of helping people with what are called

443
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 3: nutrient gaps. You need the magnesium, you need the vitamin a,

444
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 3: et cetera. Then you're gonna talk with folks like Carol

445
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 3: Haggins's scientific and health communications consultant with the Office of

446
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: Dietary Supplements. First off, Also, there are so many there's

447
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: so many US departments and offices that I think most

448
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 3: of us never contemplate but she points out some of

449
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 3: the same stuff we were saying earlier. Fullic acid. Yes,

450
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 3: it is a great help to folks when they are

451
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 3: carrying a child. Vitamin B twelve is great, not just

452
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 3: for vegans who do need access to B twelve, but

453
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 3: also for people over fifty. It just it helps.

454
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: This has two hundred and fifty percent of my daily

455
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 2: vitamin B twelve. That's a drake I've got in my

456
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: hand right here. That seems like too much.

457
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 3: And speaking of yeah, glasshouse stuff, I am drinking some

458
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 3: kind of alkaline water. Oh, it has ionized hydration and

459
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 3: it has electrolytes added for taste.

460
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: As long as it doesn't have free radicals, because then

461
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 2: you need antioxidants.

462
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 3: The name of it is free radical water, Free radical water. Yeah,

463
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 3: you're right, though, like it's true, we also have to

464
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 3: to your point about things being complicated. We have to

465
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 3: note that supplements, typically in developed countries, they're not necessarily

466
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: life savers. Then get you up to normal. They can

467
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 3: help your quality of life, and indeed have some preventative

468
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 3: aspects for problems down the road, but they're not gonna

469
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 3: cure you of prostate cancer or something. There is not

470
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: a pill that people can take that will make them

471
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 3: able to see if they are blind. And it's extremely

472
00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 3: unclean that that different corporations or flim flam artists would

473
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 3: try to pretend otherwise. But I was interested to learn, man,

474
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 3: And you know this, folks. In developing countries where a

475
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 3: lot of vitamin deficiencies can be much more common, supplements

476
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: can be a real game changer. Like survival food or

477
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: functional food as they call it. What's that really weird?

478
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 2: One?

479
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 3: Plumping nut? Which have you heard of? Plumping nut?

480
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: What the heck is that?

481
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 3: It's like if peanut butter was cocaine. But I'm going

482
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 3: somewhere with this. Plumping nut is crack or it's like

483
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 3: if if peanut butter was water. Plumping nut is like gatorade.

484
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 2: What it says, ready to use therapeutic food.

485
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It can address a lot of

486
00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 3: a lot of nutrition deficits in you know, UH is

487
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 3: suffering from food insecurity. But it's still a private company

488
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: and they make a lot of money selling plumpy Also

489
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: the name is kind of dumb.

490
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. For for the treatment of severe acute malnutrition mmm,

491
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: where it provides treatment at home.

492
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

493
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, whoa this is it's crazy that it's a thing.

494
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 2: It is chok full of vitamins, minerals, lipids and nutrients.

495
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: Good golly, it's even got nyasin.

496
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,920
Speaker 3: Oh finally, yes, it's got all the stuff. It also

497
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 3: has a weird apostrophe, which I should stop harping on.

498
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 3: It's like plumpy apostrophe nut maybe it's maybe it's cooler

499
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 3: in French. But it's manufactured by a place called nutri Set. Anyway, Yeah,

500
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 3: these these things happen. We have to point out. This

501
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 3: is an excellent example of how different requirements may be

502
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: one part of the world versus is another part of

503
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 3: the globe. Again, there's not really a silver bullet. And

504
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 3: you know a lot of us in the audience today

505
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 3: might have our own favorite supplements. You might be taking

506
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: some fish oil or some I don't know, some multi

507
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 3: vitamins B three complex. Is B three complex a thing?

508
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 3: I just make that up.

509
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: I don't know B three, I know D three and

510
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 2: D two.

511
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 3: Okay, well let's say those instead. And you know, if

512
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: the list of those provably helpful substances is so short,

513
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 3: then why are there so many things out there in

514
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 3: the marketplace where there's shelves and shelves and shelves of

515
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 3: all these powders, pills and drinks. I mean it's like that.

516
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: What's that?

517
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 3: Was it? Jefferson airplane? One pay makes you a big r,

518
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 3: one pay makes you small.

519
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 2: One pill grows your hair long, and another prevents it

520
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 2: from growing at all.

521
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 3: And one with tacio dong. Yeah, the idea that you

522
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 3: could make body parts larger, right, or yeah, address hair,

523
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 3: mail pattern, baldness or whatever. This is where one would

524
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 3: imagine the FDA would come into play. And technically is

525
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 3: the law stuff right, This is where it gets juicy. Technically,

526
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: the FDA says a statement from a supplement needs to

527
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 3: have substantiation and to be truthful on paper.

528
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: That's awesome. That sounds great, sounds great to me. How

529
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: do you how do you prove it? I guess with

530
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 2: clinical trials?

531
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be the idea, right, I mean, but

532
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 3: it's weird because there are a lot of clinical trials,

533
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: and time and time again, journalists try to find independent scientists,

534
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 3: people without industry ties, to confirm whether or not a

535
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:09,319
Speaker 3: given claim is meaningful, and to date, every time you

536
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:14,520
Speaker 3: try to find an independent scientist arguing this, you're going

537
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 3: to run into a brick wall like our palette. The

538
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,359
Speaker 3: Washington Post and many other journalists tried to figure out

539
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 3: what was going on. And Tomorrow Hospital again said the

540
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: dietary supplements industry, and he spoke with trade groups multiple ones.

541
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 3: He said they could not point me to a single

542
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 3: independent scientist who agrees with industry supported studies. So yeah,

543
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's cricker.

544
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 2: Supplements in this whole industry entered a really strange phase. Well,

545
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,280
Speaker 2: I mean they've there been in a few but around

546
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, so when the Mayan calendar decided, you know,

547
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: everything's going to end, supplements were having a real boom time.

548
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: And there were there were several there were several several

549
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 2: things that a group of Johns Hopkins researchers and other

550
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 2: very important smart people came through and tried to tried

551
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 2: to get a grasp on the supplement industry. And in

552
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, my goodness, there are some studies

553
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 2: that came out and you'll find papers in the NIH

554
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 2: the National Institutes of Health and there in their published

555
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: documents that are basically filed under Office of Dietary Supplements

556
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: and other places like that, where they come through and

557
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: they said, at least these Johns Hopkins Fellows. In twenty thirteen,

558
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: they came through and said, hey, everybody, stop taking supplements.

559
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,240
Speaker 2: None of it makes sense, none of it does anything

560
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 2: for you. Stop taking mineral and vitamin supplements. The title

561
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: is literally quote enough is enough, Stop waste money on

562
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: vitamin and mineral supplements. It was published on December seventeenth,

563
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, and they just said, no, don't do it anymore,

564
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 2: and here's our you know, here's our research to back

565
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 2: it up after looking at all of the studies that

566
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 2: have come before us. And then almost immediately after that,

567
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: there's a whole other camp of scientists that also have

568
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:28,800
Speaker 2: PhDs that say, hey, guys, no, you're wrong, You're absolutely wrong.

569
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 2: The one that was published February thirteenth, twenty fourteen, by

570
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 2: Thomas Guliams. Guliams it looks like Williams, but with a

571
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: GUI PhD. This was in Integer Med. It's almost like

572
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 2: an opinion piece, but it's also backed up by research,

573
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: and it is the exact opposite that just says, you

574
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 2: guys are wrong, you guys are completely wrong to research

575
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 2: and this whole thing from twenty thirteen is picking up

576
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 2: so much steam. You guys are completely distorting the way

577
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 2: America and the rest of the world is viewing supplements.

578
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 3: Take more.

579
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,319
Speaker 2: Well. But yeah, but again you wonder why we all

580
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: feel so confused. It's because if you've got doctors on

581
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 2: either side yelling at each other basically, which is what

582
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: I just described, how are we supposed to know? How

583
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 2: am I supposed to know? With a bachelors from Georgia state? Well,

584
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: if you know, taking vitamins are going to help me.

585
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 3: Right, especially when one would hope that these these founts

586
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 3: of authority are unified. Right, If the facts are the facts,

587
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 3: then people should agree. And that simply seems to not

588
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 3: be the case. I mean even you know, at this point,

589
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 3: I think we have to get to one of the

590
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 3: weird aspects of this in the US, in particular, what

591
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 3: do you think should we pause for a word from

592
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 3: our sponsors?

593
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,759
Speaker 2: All right, well, then let's us take an outbreak. We'll

594
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: be right back.

595
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 3: And we have returned. Shout out to everybody who gets

596
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 3: their oil straight from the fish. That's what I do.

597
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 3: I just got some I got an aquarium. Oh I'm

598
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 3: not even killing the fish man, I just pick them up,

599
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,959
Speaker 3: and I like, yeah, just juice them out a little

600
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 3: bit and put them back in catch a release.

601
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that is how you should get fish oil.

602
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 2: If you need fish oil, you consume it.

603
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, that part's true, folks. You can't ring fish

604
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 3: out like a wet towel. Don't do that. It's not

605
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 3: cool for the fish.

606
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 2: You just take them olive oil, Like take them out

607
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 2: of the water, but take them alive oil. Let them

608
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 2: swim in there.

609
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,240
Speaker 3: For a second, just for it, just like a second.

610
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 2: Just lick it off. You're good.

611
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing weird. We are joking, folks. Please don't try that.

612
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 3: But there is something that's not a joke, and it's

613
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 3: ridiculous and danger, which is this. And a lot of

614
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 3: people don't know this when they walk through their health

615
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 3: store or their grocery store. If you are a company

616
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: in the United States and you are marketing some kind

617
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,360
Speaker 3: of dietary supplement, you do not have to establish that

618
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 3: it is safe. You are only required to tell the

619
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 3: government when something goes wrong.

620
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's an alarm system, right, as a way to

621
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 2: put it. It's not a preventative measure. It's an alarm system.

622
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 3: It's a reactive measure, so you could you could come

623
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,000
Speaker 3: out by the way with like you know, Paul, Matt

624
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: and Ben's fancy, how you do on pills? And it

625
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 3: turns out that they it turns out that they have

626
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,479
Speaker 3: a dangerous health effect, And then the FDA will come

627
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 3: back later after enough people have died and say, hey, guys,

628
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 3: how you doing. Pills are bad? And we'll be like,

629
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: what that's crazy, but they're so fancy, but they're so

630
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 3: how are you doing? But this idea, right, the legislation

631
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 3: lagging behind is a common problem. And I know we're

632
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 3: both looking into the very sexily named Dietary Supplement Health

633
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,960
Speaker 3: and Education Act of nineteen ninety four or the DASHA,

634
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 3: And this is still controversial because it says that the

635
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 3: FD eight does not have the authority to approve these

636
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,799
Speaker 3: supplements as long as they qualify as something that was

637
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 3: already in the natural food sources of the country. So like,

638
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 3: if you are selling vitamin C and vitamin C is

639
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 3: already in a bunch of citrus products, then go with god, right,

640
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 3: because that's not a drug. Now, that's just something people

641
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 3: can eat and ingest.

642
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 2: In other ways, that's just orange juice. Bruh, orange juice.

643
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 2: Why are you being fancy? But man, why don't you

644
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 2: put some calcium in that too? Mm hmmm hmm.

645
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. Hey wait uh, this question has nothing to do

646
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 3: with uh, with our mission tonight, Matt. But uh, do

647
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 3: you have a strong stance on pulp in juice?

648
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:22,439
Speaker 2: Yeah? If if I'm going to make a juice, then

649
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 2: I'm cool with pulp in it. If I'm going to

650
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 2: order a juice, keep that pulp out of my drink.

651
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 2: We go.

652
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 3: I like pulpit a juice because it makes it feel

653
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 3: more like juice to me. Yeah, real chewy, you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

654
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 3: I like to chew my beverages. So the that that's

655
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 3: a slight discoursion, but we do have serious questions here,

656
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 3: like why does a firm, if if a company is

657
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 3: required to have substantive, truthful claims about whatever dietary supplement

658
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 3: they are selling the and why do they not have

659
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 3: to substantiate this safety of that product before they roll

660
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 3: it out onto shelves.

661
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 2: That's a great question, you know.

662
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 3: And again like we're not we're not read onto the

663
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 3: emails from the FDA. We're not around in the congressional

664
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 3: brainstorming sessions. We know that no matter how slick the

665
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 3: packaging is, how many like warm colors and cool cartoons

666
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 3: and plant leaves and whatever, all of that stuff doesn't matter.

667
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 3: And the buzzwords often don't matter either. They're like sound

668
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 3: and fury. They're signifying nothing. We talked about it a

669
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 3: while back, you know how tricky different marketing buzzwords can be,

670
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 3: how they look like actual descriptions of fact, Like all

671
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 3: natural doesn't mean anything whatsoever.

672
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 2: Completely not natural. Vitamin D.

673
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 3: I would like that, Yeah, vitamin C for cyborg.

674
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 2: This is yeah, man, this is synthetic magnesium. It's real hot,

675
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 2: right now, get some while it's still around. It's actually

676
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 2: an FT, but it is true because we treat these things.

677
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 2: We take these things like drugs, as we're talking about

678
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 2: in the beginning, Right, it's a pill something you have

679
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 2: to take as though you would riddle in, or something

680
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 2: that you were prescribed maybe as a kid. Right, But

681
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: it is. But they're not that at all. But they

682
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 2: are things that are generally found in foods. But it

683
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 2: is not a food because you're not eating it.

684
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 3: Right.

685
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: It is a weird little gray area that the FDA

686
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 2: just says, my not my purview, pal well, I got

687
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: enough to deal with.

688
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 3: Over here, right, call us back when hundreds of people die. Yeah,

689
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 3: that's set the alarm off, right, the call us when

690
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 3: the alarm goes off. I mean this is another thing too.

691
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 3: The US is in a somewhat distinct situation because the

692
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 3: healthcare and dietary regulation of this country is wackadoo. But

693
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 3: if you die in the US, We've said it before,

694
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 3: if you die in the United States in recent history,

695
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 3: the primary cause of that mortality is poverty. You can

696
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 3: trace it back to a thousand different ways, but it's

697
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,439
Speaker 3: kind of an all roads lead to rome situation. I mean,

698
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 3: you know, private industries are making millions, billions of dollars

699
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 3: selling hope to the hopeless, and this poison masquerades is medicine.

700
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, we can look back on, you know,

701
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:45,720
Speaker 3: like Chinese emperors ingesting mercury. We can say that's chump

702
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 3: move stuff. But that is a comforting blindness. The grifters

703
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 3: are real, they are here, they're actively operating. There are

704
00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 3: tons of substances soul as supplements that can do actual

705
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 3: harm to people, and one of the most infamous recent

706
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 3: cases that we're both reading about is a fedra Remember

707
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 3: e fed Remember how E fedro was everywhere for a while.

708
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: I know, a fedrin. Yeah, I always think about Echinasia.

709
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 2: That was the thing that I remembered. It was like

710
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 2: around forever and everybody needed to take it. And then

711
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: for a while, oh wait, no, you don't need to

712
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 2: take it. It doesn't do anything. And then oh no, it

713
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 2: does stuff again. But I don't know the fed Tell

714
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 2: me about that one.

715
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 3: E fedra was. It's a substance that occurs naturally in

716
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 3: some plants, and for a while it was marketed as

717
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 3: an appetite suppressant, an energy booster, and people were taking

718
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 3: it willy nilly until about one hundred and fifty five

719
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 3: folks died as a result of ingesting it.

720
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,840
Speaker 2: Whoa, So it was like it was a weight loss

721
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,439
Speaker 2: pill or something like that.

722
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like an upper weight loss thing, kind of

723
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,279
Speaker 3: like that jacked up lemonade that was a pin I

724
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 3: got in trouble for.

725
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, well that's just loads of caffeine in a

726
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 2: you know, dump it into your dump it into your

727
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 2: giant cup that we provided you with, and then, oh,

728
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: by the way, free refills.

729
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 3: So E fedra can cause a quickened heartbeat, it can

730
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 3: cause elevated blood pressure, people can vomit, they can have

731
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 3: heart palpitations. It's also difficult really to control the dose

732
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 3: in some ways. And as a result, there was this

733
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 3: study from the Annals of Internal Medicine that said products

734
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,800
Speaker 3: made with e Fedra were only one percent of herbal

735
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 3: supplement sales in the United States in like the early

736
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 3: two thousands, but they were responsible for sixty two percent

737
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 3: of herb related reports to poison control. So people, yeah,

738
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 3: people were accis. And these aren't folks, you know, trying

739
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 3: to get high or something. They're they're taking what they

740
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 3: feel is a helpful dietary supplement. In two thousand and three,

741
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 3: the FDA reacted and removed some eheda products from the

742
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 3: US market, and to this day, it is the only

743
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,560
Speaker 3: dietary supplement to get an outright ban in the entire

744
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 3: history of dietary supplements. And again, it's not a it's like,

745
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 3: is it a food, is it a drug? It occurs

746
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 3: in plants, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, according to.

747
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: I think it's Harvard that you linked to here, Ben's

748
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 2: they're saying that it was in a specific herb that's

749
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: used in Chinese medicine Mong mahuang yeah hu a n g.

750
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 2: So it's like a naturally occurring thing. But then I

751
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 2: guess if you try and you know, break it down

752
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,880
Speaker 2: into a more concentrated form, right, it was having all

753
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 2: kinds of bad effects. I've never I've never, don't. I

754
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,879
Speaker 2: don't know how I missed this, ben, But I missed this.

755
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:02,919
Speaker 3: Well, you know a lot of people miss it because

756
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 3: they're having a tough time buying more of it.

757
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't mean miss it. I missed as

758
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 2: I don't. I didn't know with you.

759
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, it does. It does have proven

760
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 3: efficacy for things like weight loss. But to your earlier point,

761
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 3: with that can come unintended side effects and consequences. That's

762
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 3: the reason why drugs that may be prescribed by a

763
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 3: doctor sometimes come with a secondary prescription to combat the

764
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 3: side effects of the first drug. And you get caught

765
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 3: in a feedback loop, you know what I mean. That's

766
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 3: a maybe that's a story for another evening.

767
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, tell me about this next thing

768
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,839
Speaker 2: you found, man, because this this genuinely freaks me out

769
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 2: as a person who takes a multi vitamin that I

770
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 2: guess I trust and you know, take vitamin D and

771
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: a couple other supplements to my diet. This freaks me out.

772
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. In twenty eight there was a study published in

773
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 3: the medical journal JAMA, and this study looked at looked

774
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 3: at about a decade of data with the FDA, and

775
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 3: they found that between two thousand and seven and twenty sixteen,

776
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 3: the FDA identified no less than seven hundred and forty

777
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:27,320
Speaker 3: six dietary supplements that were adulterated. It weighs the consumer

778
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 3: probably didn't clock. Like imagine you get a natural herbal

779
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 3: supplement and later you learn it has not just food

780
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 3: components to it, but it has drugs in there as well.

781
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 3: We're talking steroids, erectile dysfunction stuff. And they only recalled

782
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:51,839
Speaker 3: less They recalled less than half of the messed up

783
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:52,760
Speaker 3: things they found.

784
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 2: Wow. I remember some friends early on in college who

785
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 2: would buy pills from a local gas station that had

786
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 2: crazy names. I think the ones I remember were yellow Jackets.

787
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, Yellow Jackets, White Crosses, Trucker Speed.

788
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it was essentially this like a supplement pill

789
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 2: that you just go up and you buy like it's

790
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,760
Speaker 2: a vitamin, but it totally acted like speed for people.

791
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,640
Speaker 2: They would stay up all night studying and be jittery,

792
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: and I'd what, just go on, do you guys have

793
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 2: a lot of caffeine or something like? No, man, it's

794
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: yellow jackets. Okay, well I hope everything else is okay.

795
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 2: Good luck on the.

796
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 3: Test, exactly exactly. Now you have to start asking yourself, well,

797
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 3: if we know all of this is true, and we

798
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 3: do the public does know this, then why do people

799
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 3: keep buying stuff? The short answer is this, just like

800
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 3: snake oil from ages past, a lot of these substances,

801
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: they're not gonna help you, but they're not gonna harm you. Yeah,

802
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 3: they're just blue guy pills. They're placebos by another name.

803
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 2: Well, and they're expensive. They're not gonna hurt you, but

804
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 2: dang they're expensive.

805
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 3: They are going to hurt your wallet.

806
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Often it's a one time per what maybe once

807
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 2: or twice a year purchase. If you get a giant

808
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 2: pill of some supplement that you're taking, right, but still

809
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 2: in the end, you could save that money and, at

810
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 2: the recommendation of many a PhD that we read for

811
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 2: this episode, take that money and instead buy what they

812
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 2: refer to as nutrient rich foods. Right, Yeah, like save

813
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,800
Speaker 2: that money and instead of going cheap on dinner, actually

814
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 2: go out and you know, get some fruits and vegetables

815
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 2: that you end up putting together for a meal. And

816
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: I think in the end it, weirdly enough, that's the

817
00:51:56,080 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 2: thing that resonates most with me, this idea of overspending

818
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 2: on something that is probably not going to fully help me,

819
00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 2: when I could be spending money on something that is

820
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:13,879
Speaker 2: almost definitely going to help me, because your body processes

821
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,240
Speaker 2: food so much easier than it does, you know, super

822
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 2: condensed pill or a powdered form of whatever mineral you're

823
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 2: trying to put in your body, if it's naturally occurring

824
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: in that spinach, it's probably going to do your body

825
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,720
Speaker 2: a lot better. Yeah.

826
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what we could say is there is unfortunate

827
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 3: truth to these conspiracies in that not all by any means,

828
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 3: but many, many unethical purveyors of dietary supplements they're trying

829
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 3: to cure you of not a medical condition, but what

830
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 3: they see as a financial condition. You have too much

831
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 3: money and they want some of it. Yeah, I don't know.

832
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, it's so gross.

833
00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 2: But it's also a matter of belief. It's a matter

834
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 2: of face in some ways because it does go back

835
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 2: to older practices, right, It goes back to my family

836
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 2: swears by this thing that we all take on a daily, weekly,

837
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: whatever basis. Around this time of year, we eat this

838
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 2: specific food or and we supplement it with this and

839
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 2: you know it if you believe it. As we've talked

840
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 2: about before on this show, the placebo effect could work

841
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 2: in your favor if you've got something like that that's

842
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 2: deeply ingrained in your belief system, or maybe you're a

843
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 2: group or families or tribes belief system.

844
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really appreciate that point because yet the short

845
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 3: answer to why people keep buying this stuff is because

846
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 3: it's not harming them. But the deeper and more philosophical

847
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,400
Speaker 3: answer here is that the human mind is kind of

848
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 3: a drug all its own. It's a drug that does itself.

849
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,839
Speaker 3: That's the best way to think of human consciousness. And

850
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 3: these supplements of people turn to. They're seen as distinct

851
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 3: from the pharmaceutical industry, often with good reason, because the

852
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 3: pharmaceutical industry is its own bag at Badgers. And like

853
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,919
Speaker 3: you said, Matt, the placebo effect is real to a

854
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 3: certain degree. Your body will do better if your mind

855
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:31,560
Speaker 3: believes it is doing something to improve the mind and

856
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 3: the body. It doesn't, obviously, right, good vibes are not

857
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 3: going to restore your sight, you know, nor regrow limbs,

858
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 3: or erase cancer, or solve very real problems like dementia.

859
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: But the problem is even with that, the problem is

860
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 3: that it is much more difficult to fact check things

861
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:57,920
Speaker 3: now and much more easy to purport to be an authority.

862
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 3: Back in the days, you know, the medicine and shows,

863
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 3: we could have just pitched in for a covered wagon

864
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 3: and we could have sold some bs, and then we

865
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 3: would have blown down before we got caught, right, and

866
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,839
Speaker 3: then later maybe we could print out some broadsheets, we'd

867
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 3: get a radio. But now anybody can make a website

868
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,919
Speaker 3: and anybody can kind of say whatever they want.

869
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's one of the huge problems with researching

870
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 2: this episode. Even if you type the correct search terms,

871
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 2: specifically for me at least in my findings, into Google,

872
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 2: you are going to get so many more at the

873
00:55:36,160 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 2: very top of that search websites that are wellness health

874
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 2: oriented that are often tied to a product or a

875
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 2: you know, a private group that stands to make money

876
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 2: off of making you believe about a specific supplement or

877
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:57,800
Speaker 2: a very generalized concept of supplements working in your favor.

878
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:02,319
Speaker 2: It's one or the other, can be both sometimes, but

879
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 2: one thing that you can do. I guess let's point

880
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 2: this out.

881
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 3: Ben.

882
00:56:07,080 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 2: This was written in a WebMD article that was kind

883
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 2: of a generalized thing about how how should I think

884
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 2: about supplements and what should I do? They're saying, when

885
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 2: you start your research, because there is such a muddying

886
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:24,400
Speaker 2: of the waters that exists on the internet right now, literally,

887
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 2: and this kind of stinks, y'all, Oh boy, look for

888
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 2: those NIH PubMed database articles that have been peer reviewed

889
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 2: that have information about a specific type of supplement, not

890
00:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 2: the one, not some specific brand name, but this, you know,

891
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 2: whatever that substance is. Look for those trials, look for

892
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 2: the research that's the stuff that's not fun to read,

893
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 2: but at least see if there's a general positive outlook

894
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 2: on that substance before you go down a road. And

895
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 2: they also say definitely talk to a doctor or you know,

896
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 2: a dietitian that's accredited in some way. Just talk to

897
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 2: somebody before you start taking a supplement, especially if you've

898
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 2: got other health issues going on already.

899
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 3: Right yeah, especially if you have clear and present health issues. Ed,

900
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 3: we will do something. I don't want to say it's

901
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 3: sith Lord's stuff, Matt, but just fair is fair, balance

902
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 3: and moderation all things. If you are an unethical evil

903
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 3: entity and you're wondering, hey, how can I get it

904
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 3: on ripping off people, Well there's a second step you

905
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:43,000
Speaker 3: can take that'll be more successful and indeed kind of

906
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 3: safer for everybody involved. Don't pretend to treat a real problem.

907
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 3: Invent a fake problem and then say you're treating that.

908
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like halatosis?

909
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:58,040
Speaker 2: Oh dude, do the old fin lip? I got that? Man?

910
00:57:58,280 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 2: I wonder they got something for that.

911
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 3: I've just oh, I'm saying with great affection, I've just

912
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 3: imagining some fake doctor who is like, well, uh, mister Frederick,

913
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 3: good news, bad news? Okay, which do went first?

914
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 2: Oh? I guess the bad news.

915
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 3: Well, I'm gonna give it to you straight. You've got

916
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:28,560
Speaker 3: a got something we call uh TLS in lip syndrome.

917
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you know, I had I felt like I

918
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 2: feel like maybe I did, but I wasn't sure what.

919
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 2: What's the good news?

920
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 3: Oh? Uh, The good news is that the good news

921
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 3: is that this visit is non refundable and you have

922
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 3: paid in advance. Oh, it's it's good news for me.

923
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 3: It's good news for me. It's good news for me

924
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 3: as a doctor. I also have uh several pills that

925
00:58:55,760 --> 00:59:02,640
Speaker 3: could help address TLS. But you know, let's get past

926
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 3: all this, all this mumbo jumbo about uh about uh

927
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 3: big pharma. You know, mister Frederick, you strike me as

928
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 3: more of a grounded person, right, you're you're you're more

929
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,919
Speaker 3: into natural medicine, correct.

930
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like you know, micro nutrients. I'm down with

931
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,080
Speaker 2: you know, phido chemicals. Do you have any of those?

932
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 3: Yeah? Would you say you are pro biotic?

933
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

934
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,320
Speaker 3: Okay, great? Great in that case that I get to

935
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 3: write you a prescription here for the local spirit Halloween.

936
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 3: Try out these try out these wax lips. Uh okay,

937
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:51,000
Speaker 3: and see, jeez, this.

938
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 2: Is wonderful because again, it feels like that often and

939
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 2: and there's a possibility that you could be treated that way.

940
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 2: Probably not right. Generally, if you're going to see a doctor,

941
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,479
Speaker 2: they're gonna try and hook you up and help you out.

942
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 2: But we in another episode, unrelated to all the ones

943
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,480
Speaker 2: we mentioned so far, we've talked about the lobbying side

944
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 2: of the pharmaceutical industry and how it functions in like

945
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 2: singular doctor's offices, and how you get drug reps that

946
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:23,800
Speaker 2: show up. 're like, gag, we really need you to

947
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 2: push these bills. How you doing. Here's some lunch?

948
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, perfect, you're right, You're absolutely right. And also in

949
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,440
Speaker 3: that off the rail scene we were exploring together that

950
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 3: guy who is talking to mister Frederick not a doctor.

951
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 3: He got his white coat at spirit Halloween.

952
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 2: Oh man, I know it.

953
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 3: Hopefully a doctor would not try to griff someone. But

954
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,000
Speaker 3: you are right. The pharmaceutical lobbies do you have a

955
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 3: far reach? And despite the laws they're meant to protect

956
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 3: the patients to some degree, there are a lot of loopholes,

957
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 3: right like is it is it a bribe or is

958
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:03,520
Speaker 3: it just a gift?

959
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 2: Who knows? It's both? Always maybe, I don't know. We've

960
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 2: been we didn't even talk about the old new tropics and.

961
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 3: The we didn't talk about new tropics.

962
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 2: Adaptogens and all the lions main and different mushrooms I'm

963
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 2: supposed to take now, including what's the crazy one, uh,

964
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 2: the the fungus that eats through ants brains and makes

965
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 2: them go to the cordyceps cordyceps. I'm supposed to take

966
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 2: courtyceps now according to the Internet. No, thank you Internet.

967
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 3: We also we also, in the spirit of full disclosure, folks,

968
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,320
Speaker 3: we as I think we've been pretty clear, we also

969
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:48,440
Speaker 3: in our personal lives, do take dietary supplements, right, Yeah.

970
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:52,600
Speaker 2: Oh I do. I do. We've been sponsored. Honestly, several times,

971
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 2: we've been sponsored by dietary supplement companies that we look

972
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 2: into and we feel comfortable with. It's not often that

973
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 2: they come our way, right, which is a weird thing.

974
01:02:05,560 --> 01:02:07,600
Speaker 3: We have noticed some things, and I think that was

975
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 3: the right move.

976
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, listen to other podcasts. There's there

977
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 2: are some new tropics going on and podcasts not to

978
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 2: name names, won't name names. There's also adaptogens all day

979
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 2: long and what they do, and I don't know, that's

980
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 2: a whole other episode. Maybe.

981
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:30,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, Part two of Supplements will be new tropics because,

982
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:34,880
Speaker 3: as you know, Matt, I take I have experimented widely

983
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 3: with new tropics and psychedelics. Oh.

984
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 2: I've tried some stuff too.

985
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

986
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:45,520
Speaker 2: I guess what, I don't feel smarter, but maybe that's

987
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:45,840
Speaker 2: just me.

988
01:02:47,040 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 3: I think maybe the fact that we are not feeling

989
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 3: smarter means that we are indeed learning something right. Maybe

990
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 3: try to keep it positive. Like you know, people in

991
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 3: general tend to either really like living or be really

992
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 3: terrified of dying. So it shouldn't be a surprise. Right

993
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 3: from the days of ancient empires all the way to

994
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, the Eclipse and beyond, there is going

995
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 3: to be some group of people trying to leverage that desire,

996
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:23,600
Speaker 3: leverage that fear for profit. And yeah, a lot of

997
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 3: this stuff doesn't seem to harm you necessarily. But we

998
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 3: also you know what else we didn't talk about, Matt.

999
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 3: We didn't talk about multi level marketing for supplements. We

1000
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 3: didn't talk about all the lawsuits that are coming that

1001
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:42,280
Speaker 3: have pat what has passed, is passing and has yet

1002
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,920
Speaker 3: to come. I don't know, man, It's like the shadow

1003
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:49,959
Speaker 3: of patent medicine never really left because the money got

1004
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 3: too good.

1005
01:03:51,160 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 2: Well, it means we're talking.

1006
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:54,560
Speaker 3: We both we both just threw our hands up.

1007
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,960
Speaker 2: Folks. They tell you billions of dollars and people are

1008
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:04,919
Speaker 2: still buying. I mean, it's it's capitalism, man.

1009
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm putting that on the on the episode list

1010
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 3: as well. So we got new tropics yeah, capitalism, and.

1011
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:16,000
Speaker 2: This is too much to handle on Eclipse day, y'all.

1012
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 2: It's it. It's eclipse Day. We pushed recording back by

1013
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,160
Speaker 2: thirty minutes so we could finish the eclipse, you know,

1014
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 2: become lunatics before we got in here. I feel like

1015
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 2: I'm having It's affecting me. I feel like it.

1016
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,600
Speaker 3: I love it. Do you think it's the Placebo effect?

1017
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:36,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, dude. It's an Operation solar Ward and

1018
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,800
Speaker 2: there we go. I don't know. Somewhere's going on.

1019
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 3: What a nice place Bowman. No okay, no, no, no, no, no,

1020
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:49,240
Speaker 3: like first Open, but Placebo.

1021
01:04:49,040 --> 01:04:52,080
Speaker 2: Oh, which is getting great reviews.

1022
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,439
Speaker 3: By the way, Yes, thank you for sending that. Thank

1023
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:57,800
Speaker 3: you for city that. Do check out. Do check out

1024
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 3: the first Open, folks. As always, the best part of

1025
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:04,600
Speaker 3: this show is you. Thank you for tuning in. Matt,

1026
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:08,280
Speaker 3: Paul Nol and I will be returning, I think, with

1027
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 3: a couple of extra episodes following through the conspiracy surrounding

1028
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:17,400
Speaker 3: the supplement industry. In the meantime, we need your help.

1029
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 3: Tell us what's on your mind, tell us your first

1030
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 3: hand experience, stuff that works, stuff that doesn't. What other

1031
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 3: tangent should we explore. We're all over Instagram, we're all

1032
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:31,440
Speaker 3: over YouTube, we're all over social media. We also have

1033
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 3: a phone number and you cad you can call us.

1034
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 2: Oh yes, you can call one eight three three std WYTK.

1035
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 2: That's our number. It's a three minute voicemail system that

1036
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 2: means you have three minutes say whatever you'd like. Just

1037
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 2: got to fit in there or else it's going to

1038
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 2: cut you off. So you know you're going to feel

1039
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 2: the pressure as it's going on. But it's great. Say

1040
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 2: whatever you want. Just give yourself a cool nickname and

1041
01:05:58,080 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 2: let us know if we can use your name and

1042
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 2: message on the air. Oh, Ben, we didn't. This is

1043
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 2: the little easter egg for anybody that got here. Yeah

1044
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:10,400
Speaker 2: I didn't mention the US pharmacopeia, which is something oh

1045
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 2: we talked.

1046
01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

1047
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:15,000
Speaker 2: It's something I'd never heard of before. But this is

1048
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:20,760
Speaker 2: a nonprofit organization, quote authority that sets standards for all

1049
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 2: kinds of supplements. Makes They're the ones that like, does

1050
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 2: the thing you assume the FDA might do, right, but

1051
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 2: they're a nonprofit that just exists and does stuff, and

1052
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 2: they will often if you're looking for supplements, they will

1053
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 2: often put a little stamp of approval basically on things

1054
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 2: that they've actually taken a look at, which is a

1055
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 2: good thing to know if you're out there looking for

1056
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 2: something to add to your diet.

1057
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're also global too, right. They do a lot

1058
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 3: of work with USAID and so what.

1059
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:53,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah huge, it's just I never heard of that,

1060
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,680
Speaker 2: and it's worth your time to again do some research

1061
01:06:57,040 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 2: before you pick anything up from the grocery store or whatever,

1062
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,200
Speaker 2: because it gets complicated.

1063
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 3: It gets so complicated.

1064
01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,720
Speaker 2: Tell us about the complications you've run into by either

1065
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:10,800
Speaker 2: calling us or by sending us a good old fashioned email.

1066
01:07:11,080 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1067
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

1068
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1069
01:07:40,320 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.