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Speaker 1: Beautiful. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Radio special operations, military news and

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Speaker 1: straight talk with the guys in the community. How long

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Speaker 1: we're gonna everyone, Welcome back to Software Radio, Software Radio

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Speaker 1: One time, Montargraph. I am your hostess Afternoon, Steve BELSHERI.

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Speaker 1: We have a very special guest with us, Colin Cahun.

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Speaker 1: He's an author of Former Army Helicopter Pilot. He's the

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Speaker 1: author of three books, and we're gonna be talking about

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Speaker 1: his latest book, which is um It's titled Mended Wings

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Speaker 1: The Vietnam War Experience through the Eyes of ten American

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Speaker 1: Purple Heart Helicopter Pilots. At folks, I'm I'm gonna, you know,

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Speaker 1: just preface this right off the bat. This is one

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Speaker 1: of those page turners that you can't put down. And

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Speaker 1: I was speaking offline would column before we started, and

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Speaker 1: I told him I was very disappointed in the book

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Speaker 1: that there wasn't a chapter eleven. So with that said,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna welcome him too the podcast column. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: taking the time with us this afternoon. We really appreciate it. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Steve. It's my honor to be here. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate you having me. Oh it's it's our on him,

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Speaker 1: trust me. And uh so before we get started in

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Speaker 1: the book, tell us a little listeners, a little bit

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Speaker 1: about yourself, your background, and then uh, you know, we'll

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Speaker 1: we'll get into the book itself. Sure. So I was

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Speaker 1: commissioned in the Army of Regular Army commission in nine

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Speaker 1: three after I graduated from college at New Mexico State

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Speaker 1: University in Las Crises, New Mexico, and um from there.

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Speaker 1: They didn't have an aviation branch at the time, so

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Speaker 1: I had to get a carrier branch. I went to

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Speaker 1: Air Defense Artillery Officer Basic course in Fort Bliss. Then

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Speaker 1: I went to flight school at what we refer to

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Speaker 1: as Mother Rucker if you're a pilot, Fort Rucker, Alabama.

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Speaker 1: Graduated in in eighty four and then I was assigned

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Speaker 1: to the seventh Infantry Division at Ford Ord, California. I

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Speaker 1: flew in the three oh seventh Attack Helicopter Battalion where

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Speaker 1: I was an aero scout platoon leader. So I I

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Speaker 1: flew primarily H fifty eight as a scout and then

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Speaker 1: towards the end of that assignment, I was assigned to

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Speaker 1: a V I p unit where I flew White Top

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Speaker 1: Hue's flying uh you know, generals in congressmen around and

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Speaker 1: then then I got out. I did a year in

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Speaker 1: the Guard while I was in law school, but eventually

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Speaker 1: graduated from law school and and went on to have

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Speaker 1: a career as a patent lawyer before I retired and

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Speaker 1: started writing books. So that's where I am. I'm I'm now,

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Speaker 1: I'm now a full time offer. Yeah, you said, mother

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Speaker 1: rutger Um. I went to the Warrant Officer candidate course

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Speaker 1: down there because that's where UM guys who were going

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Speaker 1: to the warrant branch for Special Forces. They sent us

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Speaker 1: all down there, and they put us in with all

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Speaker 1: the aviation students. So you know, you had a bunch

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Speaker 1: of young kids. They were just out of high school,

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Speaker 1: high school of fight school guys. And then there was

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Speaker 1: half of those Special Forces guys and and one or

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Speaker 1: two other ms is um. One guy was like a

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Speaker 1: nuclear weapons tech and everyone was leary of him because

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Speaker 1: they were wondering if he had brought any with them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was It wasn't a fun time down there in

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Speaker 1: Fort Rucker. So you know, the best, I guess, the

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Speaker 1: less we say about that the best it is, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: all the bad part and didn't have the fun. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One of the guys I served with in Special Forces,

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Speaker 1: he was going through uh the aviation school while we

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Speaker 1: were there. He had left a couple of months ahead,

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Speaker 1: so he was already flying when I got there, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I got to talk to him every afternoon in the

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Speaker 1: child hall and he was very excited and I was

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Speaker 1: pretty miserable during that time. So uh but again, so

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Speaker 1: you know, we you know, that was the decision we chose,

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Speaker 1: so we had to live with it. But hats off

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Speaker 1: to the helicopter pilots, That's all I'll say. But getting

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Speaker 1: to the book, Um, how did you come about, you know,

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Speaker 1: the idea that you were going to write this? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So when I was in flight school, back in the

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Speaker 1: civilian flight instructors who did most of the primary and

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Speaker 1: the basic part of the course. Uh, we're all um

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Speaker 1: Vietnam vets, and so I got to know these guys.

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Speaker 1: Uh they were you know, I used the turn there

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Speaker 1: the coolest cats i'd ever met. I mean, they were

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Speaker 1: just absolutely unflappable, very professional. And we used to walk

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Speaker 1: out to the flight line and and sometimes you'd see

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Speaker 1: an old helicopter sitting out there, and we were up

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Speaker 1: flying all the old Huey warbirds from Vietnam, and you

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Speaker 1: could you could tell that they had been damaged because

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Speaker 1: they would put these little square patches over the bullet holes,

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Speaker 1: and the fuselages were just spreckled with these these little patches.

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Speaker 1: And you'd some some mornings you'd walk out because you

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Speaker 1: never knew what aircraft you'd get, and some instructor would

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Speaker 1: look at it and say, oh, you know six four seven, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's the aircraft I flew when I was stationed

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Speaker 1: outside of Dunag or you know, whatever he was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: and I just, you know, at that point, I started thinking,

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Speaker 1: somebody needs just to write a story about these guys.

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Speaker 1: They've got amazing stories to tell. I then went on

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Speaker 1: to Ford Ord and all the senior warrants were all

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Speaker 1: Vietnam Vets. All the field grade officers were Vets. These

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Speaker 1: are the guy these are my heroes, these are the

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Speaker 1: guys I looked up to. I'm sure Steve you had

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Speaker 1: a similar experience when you first got in. You had

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Speaker 1: a certain generation that were your heroes, and um uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, they taught me how to be the best

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Speaker 1: army helicopter pilot I could be. They taught me how

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Speaker 1: to be the best officer army officer I could be,

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Speaker 1: and I just respected him. And I've always wanted to

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Speaker 1: do a book about them. And I came up with

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Speaker 1: the angle about purple hearts because a friend of mine

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Speaker 1: was a Vietnam Betty had a purple heart, and I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: that's an interesting angle. And I really kind of had

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Speaker 1: to step out a genre to do this, Steve, because

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Speaker 1: my other two books are completely different. They are fiction,

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Speaker 1: you know, the historical fiction, but they're still fiction. But

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Speaker 1: I just I thought, if you're going to write this

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Speaker 1: book that you wanted to do ever since flight school,

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Speaker 1: you need to just do it. Because I wanted to

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Speaker 1: honor the Vietnam Vet helicopter pods, and I wanted to

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Speaker 1: do it while they're still with us, because we're gonna

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Speaker 1: start losing that that generation, and I felt like now

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Speaker 1: is the time to do it. It's interesting because, uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I entered the military a few years before you in

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Speaker 1: Night and like you, uh, the Vietnam Vets, the guys

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Speaker 1: who you know, I was going through Special Forces training,

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Speaker 1: so those guys, you know, we had all read books

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Speaker 1: about the stuff they did, and we looked at them

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Speaker 1: like they were on this pedestal and uh yeah, at

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Speaker 1: that time, all the senior n c o s and

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Speaker 1: officers were all Vietnam vets, and you know that's somebody

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Speaker 1: that I totally agree with. We all looked up to.

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Speaker 1: I mean, those guys had a ton of experience. And

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Speaker 1: it's funny you mentioned the you know, the old war bird,

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Speaker 1: said Fort Rutger, because my friend who was in flight

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Speaker 1: school was telling me the same thing. He had a

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Speaker 1: civilian instructor and said, hey, I flew this baby back

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Speaker 1: and now he's like, look at the tail, because the

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Speaker 1: tail had a bunch of those little square patches on it,

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Speaker 1: and he goes, yeah, we almost got shot down a

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Speaker 1: few times. And it's just it's an amazing story. And

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Speaker 1: then to read the history of these guys, like I

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Speaker 1: said at the outset, when you open this book, you

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Speaker 1: immediately get hooked on it and you start turning the pages,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you kept saying, man, I hope there's

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Speaker 1: another chapter at the end of this one, and I

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Speaker 1: hope there's another chapter after that. The stories on these

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Speaker 1: guys were incredible. Um, so you know, how did you

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Speaker 1: come about I guess narrow ante time to just ten

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Speaker 1: of these guys. Yeah, so you know that's a great question,

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Speaker 1: because so you're gonna write a book about Vietnam helicopter pilots,

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Speaker 1: how do you how do you go about doing that?

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Speaker 1: And there is an organization called the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots

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Speaker 1: Association vh p A. In fact, I was at at

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Speaker 1: their conference a few weeks ago. Great bunch of guys,

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Speaker 1: and they have a quarterly or it's actually every two

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Speaker 1: month magazine that comes out. It's called the Aviator. And

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Speaker 1: so I didn't know what else to do but just

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Speaker 1: put an ad in there and just say, hey, did

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Speaker 1: did you get a purple heart while flying combat in Vietnam?

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Speaker 1: That was going to be the criteria, and if so,

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Speaker 1: would you be interested in letting me tell your story?

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Speaker 1: And I had about I don't know twenty guys that

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Speaker 1: I would say, go to my website. They'd go to

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Speaker 1: the website. There was a video of me telling them

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Speaker 1: about At the time, I call it the Purple Heart

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Speaker 1: Project because I didn't have a name for the book yet,

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Speaker 1: and and I'd say fill out this application. And about

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Speaker 1: twenty guys filled it out, and then I had some

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Speaker 1: follow up interviews, and you know, some guys begged off

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Speaker 1: once they kind of heard what we were do doing.

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Speaker 1: Some guys just weren't a good fit. And eventually I

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Speaker 1: got it down. I figured I needed, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're always thinking about the end product, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: I knew I knew for books really to be legitimate

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Speaker 1: need to come in at about six words somewhere in

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Speaker 1: that range. And so I thought, well, I think I

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Speaker 1: can tell each guy's story and about six to eight

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Speaker 1: thousand words. I think I hadn't tried it yet, but

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Speaker 1: so that means I need ten guys, and so I

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Speaker 1: ended up with the ten guys that are in the book.

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Speaker 1: And this is just uh, surreptitious, really, Steve, I'd like

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Speaker 1: to say I planned this, but I've got an agent

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Speaker 1: who represents this book, and when he was going through

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Speaker 1: an earlier draft, he said, you know, calling this has

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Speaker 1: got to be in chronological order, and you can use

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Speaker 1: this as a tool to tell the story of the

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Speaker 1: Vietnam War. And so that I started rearranging the chapters.

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Speaker 1: I put them in chronological order, and oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: I said it was surreptitious. The first guy they're they're

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Speaker 1: arranged at the order that they were injured. That's the

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Speaker 1: way mended wings is set up. And the first guy

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Speaker 1: was injured as you saw in nineteen sixty six as

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Speaker 1: the war is just starting to ramp up, and the

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Speaker 1: last guy is injured at the end of nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: two when they're just aren't many Americans left except for

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Speaker 1: air crews. That's that's about it. And so we've got

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Speaker 1: the whole war covered. And that's when we came up

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Speaker 1: with the concept, well, well, let's put a little historical

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Speaker 1: bridge between each chapter for people that aren't that familiar

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Speaker 1: with the Vietnam War, they can kind of get a

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Speaker 1: sense for it. And uh, it just it just all

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Speaker 1: kind of fell into place. And then, of course we're

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Speaker 1: not going to give away the the surprise and the

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Speaker 1: last chapter, right, Steve, We're not going to talk about that,

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Speaker 1: but there is there is a there is a surprise

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Speaker 1: in the last chapter and chapter and again that was

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Speaker 1: just serendipitous as well, the way all that sort of

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Speaker 1: lined up with my visit to Vietnam and one of

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Speaker 1: the battlefields and getting no the families, So the whole

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Speaker 1: book just sort of just came together from from my perspective,

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Speaker 1: just as as well as I could have hoped. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, And it's funny because I didn't realize it

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Speaker 1: until after I had read it that it was chronological,

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Speaker 1: because you're kind of taken each chapter as its own

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Speaker 1: separate story, and it wasn't until after I had finished

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Speaker 1: the book I realized that, Yeah, I didn't know if

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Speaker 1: you had, you know, envisioned that. I guess to put it,

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Speaker 1: you know, one step at the time. But it started

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Speaker 1: off and the book hooks you right away because prood

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Speaker 1: Helm is your first story, and his story was really interesting.

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Speaker 1: And uh, I don't know. I don't want to give

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Speaker 1: too much away because we want our listeners to buy

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Speaker 1: the book, but can you talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: meeting these guys and talking to them about their story,

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Speaker 1: especially him to start off with? Yeah, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: let's let's do this, Steve. I'll give a little taste

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Speaker 1: of prw it just so that folks can get an

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Speaker 1: idea of what mended wings, how it's structured. Um, but

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Speaker 1: you know, we start each chapter with them, and I

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Speaker 1: love the way you put it. When we were offline

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Speaker 1: heading towards their penultimate uh you know, their penultimate doom,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and they're they're in the aircraft headed towards

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Speaker 1: getting injured. And that's so our prew at Helm is

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Speaker 1: in his huey C model gun ship and they're escorting

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Speaker 1: a bunch of lift ships and they're headed towards an

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Speaker 1: insertion because there's a Special Forces unit that's about to

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Speaker 1: get overrun, and so they're sending in the grunts to

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Speaker 1: save the day. And uh. As that he they fly

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Speaker 1: into what what I would describe really as an anti

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Speaker 1: aircraft ambush, and their Hue model uh C model hue

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Speaker 1: is flies through the kill zone, comes out the other end.

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Speaker 1: It is smoking badly. It's really badly shot up. And

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Speaker 1: I think you and I would both agree these guys

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Speaker 1: had every right to just head for the head for

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Speaker 1: home at that point. But as I'm sure you've sing

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Speaker 1: over and over again in the US military, they felt

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Speaker 1: like they had a job to do, and that was

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Speaker 1: protect them in on the ground, and so they turned

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Speaker 1: back around and they headed back towards the kill zone.

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Speaker 1: And as they're headed that direction, the aircraft in front

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Speaker 1: of them blows up in a ball of fire. And

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Speaker 1: so that's where we stop. And then we go back

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Speaker 1: and we talk about his childhood and growing up in Colorado,

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Speaker 1: and again I'm not going to get into a lot

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Speaker 1: of details, but it has a very interesting childhood two

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Speaker 1: sort of typical of that generation. We take him all

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Speaker 1: the way through flight school, some fun stuff he did

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Speaker 1: in Korea, all the way back through Vietnam, and then

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Speaker 1: we keep working forward after he's been and the story

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Speaker 1: of him what happens after he's shot down. It truly

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Speaker 1: is a phenomenal and and a and a very surreal

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Speaker 1: rescue and then how he overcomes his injuries. He's an

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Speaker 1: amazing guy, let an amazing life. And that's where I

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Speaker 1: want to leave each reader at the end of each chapter,

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Speaker 1: is you get to take all the way up to us.

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Speaker 1: He's retired today in Montana. You know, you just go

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Speaker 1: all the way through his whole life story. But but

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Speaker 1: to your original question, what was it like working with

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Speaker 1: these guys this um? I think a couple of points.

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Speaker 1: One is I think because I was a helicopter pilot,

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Speaker 1: it gave me the ability to talk their language, just

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Speaker 1: like I'm sure when you interview special Forces guys. Even

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Speaker 1: if you're not in their generation. I think they feel

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Speaker 1: like they can tell they can speak a certain way

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Speaker 1: to you and you'll get it. Uh. And so that

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Speaker 1: was sort of a starting point. The other thing is,

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Speaker 1: and this won't surprise you, because I think we're about

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Speaker 1: the same h D but um our generation, and really

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Speaker 1: even more so their generation that's a phone generation, right.

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Speaker 1: They they like to communicate by phone. They're not really

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Speaker 1: comfortable with video. And so I would just start off

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Speaker 1: with after we did the initial interviews, I had I

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Speaker 1: insisted to all these guys send me pictures because there's

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Speaker 1: pictures in the book. And the only way I could

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Speaker 1: average to get those pictures to say, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to start your interview until I get your pictures. And

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Speaker 1: once I got somebody's pictures, I put them in slot

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Speaker 1: for doing an interview because that's hard for those guys

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Speaker 1: because a lot of those guys, these pictures were slides

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Speaker 1: that they people forget that, you know, those slides that

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Speaker 1: you put in the projector, and that's how you did

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Speaker 1: a lot of those pictures. And and a lot of

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Speaker 1: them had had sort of thrown out their Vietnam stuff,

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Speaker 1: or their parents had or whatever. So eventually I get

291
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Speaker 1: their picture. I'd set up some phone interviews and then

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Speaker 1: I would do at least three and sometimes four phone

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Speaker 1: interviews with each guy. Each interview lasted between two and

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Speaker 1: three hours, so you can do the math between six

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Speaker 1: and twelve hours really of interviews for each guy really

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Speaker 1: got to know him. And then if I could, I

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Speaker 1: would talk to other pilots that they knew. I talked

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Speaker 1: to family members, I did research, you know, I went

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Speaker 1: to Vietnam, visited places, got as much information as I could,

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Speaker 1: and then Um, when the chapter was done in draft form,

301
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Speaker 1: I would send it to him and say what do

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Speaker 1: you think? And it was interesting because a lot of

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Speaker 1: these mended wing vets UH wouldn't get back to me

304
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Speaker 1: for four to six weeks sometimes, and they eventually they

305
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Speaker 1: would call and they'd say something a type of conversation

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Speaker 1: would say, you know, Colin, I'm sorry I didn't get

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Speaker 1: back to you sooner. I want you to know that

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Speaker 1: the good news is, you really nailed the chapter. I

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Speaker 1: think you did an excellent job in telling my story

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Speaker 1: and representing who I am. Um. The bad news is,

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Speaker 1: when I read it, it was like ripping a scab

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Speaker 1: off and it's just taken me a while to get

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Speaker 1: my head around, um, these facts, because quite frankly, I've

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Speaker 1: never seen it laid out like this. And then they

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Speaker 1: proceed to tell me that, you know, there are some

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Speaker 1: things in here that I haven't even told my wife,

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Speaker 1: and uh so you know, I'm just struggling with we

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Speaker 1: tell the world, and then we'd have a discussion about well,

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Speaker 1: you know, first of all, you need to tell your wife,

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Speaker 1: you know, I have her read the chapter. I want

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Speaker 1: her looped into this process. But secondly, what you please

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Speaker 1: think about the fact that we are telling a story

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Speaker 1: in this book Mended Wings about your generation of pilots.

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Speaker 1: That's really the purpose of the book. And I would

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Speaker 1: like people to understand what you guys went through. And

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Speaker 1: I know this is painful. I know it's you. But

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Speaker 1: people aren't going to understand unless these stories come out.

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Speaker 1: So let's consider that. And usually we we'd leave it in,

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Speaker 1: you know, we'd figure out how to leave those painful

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Speaker 1: things in. That's that's very interesting because you know, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, reading through the book, each each person had

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Speaker 1: their own story. They're all very different. I really like

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Speaker 1: the other one about the uh the crew chiefs premonition.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was a really good chapter. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know where they were going with that and or where

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Speaker 1: you were going with that and how it was gonna

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Speaker 1: end up. I thought that was a really interesting, uh story.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's each guy. I thought it was

339
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Speaker 1: really pretty different. But they all had that love of aviation,

340
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Speaker 1: and you know, that's what tied all the book together,

341
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Speaker 1: obviously being helicopter pilots. But you know, the as we

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Speaker 1: set offline, Um, it starts off, you know, right as

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Speaker 1: the war is ramping up, and then through the heavy

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Speaker 1: part of the fighting and the you know, probably sixty

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Speaker 1: seven to sixty nine, and then things start to you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: I guess Vietnamization took place, and the US is gradually

347
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Speaker 1: pulling out, and then you know, the final chapters of

348
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Speaker 1: the book about the only guys in combat were a

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Speaker 1: handful maybe of Special Forces guys and helicopter pilots. That

350
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Speaker 1: was it, And the feeling amongst those guys was really different,

351
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Speaker 1: wasn't at that point? Yeah, And I think that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things you get to see through this book

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Speaker 1: is the progression of the war and how certainly air crews, uh,

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Speaker 1: their their roles in the war changed their attitudes changed,

355
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Speaker 1: you know, the race relations start to ramp up. Towards

356
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Speaker 1: the end, they get worse. Uh, and the way they

357
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Speaker 1: fought the battles changed. We went from a and and

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Speaker 1: for you know, for our vets out there, these terms

359
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 1: are gonna make sense. But we went from a low

360
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Speaker 1: intensity conflict where we're really doing kind of a guerrilla

361
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Speaker 1: war two at the end of medium intensity conflict where

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Speaker 1: we're fighting conventional forces and and they've got very sophisticated weapons.

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Speaker 1: And you're right. In nineteen seventy two, Uh, you know,

364
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Speaker 1: we talked about he's our last veteran is Michael Byrne,

365
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Speaker 1: who I figured he might he might have a soft

366
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Speaker 1: spot for him, just because his his earlier Special Forces tour.

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Speaker 1: You know, he did a he did a really a

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Speaker 1: two and a half and Special Forces before they'd even

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Speaker 1: let him let him get into flight school. I thought

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Speaker 1: that was kind of a nasty rick to tell him

371
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Speaker 1: you had to to to stay on to get into

372
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Speaker 1: flight school. But anyway, he was willing to do it.

373
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Speaker 1: And for him, uh to like all the guys in

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Speaker 1: seventy two when they're flying around, if they got shot down. Uh,

375
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Speaker 1: there there there's a there's a chase HUEI behind you,

376
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Speaker 1: a command command and control hue behind you. But if

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Speaker 1: that aircraft can't get to your your toast, you're either

378
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Speaker 1: gonna get killed or captured because they're just there's no

379
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Speaker 1: there's no friendly there's no Americans, um that they're going

380
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Speaker 1: to be able to send to rescue you at that point.

381
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Speaker 1: So it was a very very different war. Yeah, and uh,

382
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Speaker 1: you know it's like for the helicopter pilots, you know,

383
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Speaker 1: the in the in the past, they always knew there

384
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Speaker 1: was large American units nearby where if they went down,

385
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Speaker 1: guys are gonna come and rescue him. They didn't have

386
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Speaker 1: that warm and fuzzy feeling with the South Vietnamese military,

387
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 1: which you can probably draw a lot of comparisons to

388
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Speaker 1: what's just transpired, you know, recent lee in Afghanistan, where

389
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:08,119
Speaker 1: a lot of the military didn't have a high I

390
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,479
Speaker 1: guess good will toward well, not a good will, but

391
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Speaker 1: confidence in our allies. Yeah. Well, and you I know,

392
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Speaker 1: you and I could probably do a whole show on

393
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Speaker 1: on parallels between Vietnam and Afghanistan, and that's all unfortunate,

394
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: but uh, but I did want to you did uh

395
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Speaker 1: talk about one point that it may have struck you

396
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Speaker 1: when you read it, but it actually struck me when

397
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Speaker 1: I wrote it. When I set out to right Minded Wings, Uh, Steve.

398
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Speaker 1: For some reason, I had in my head that all

399
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Speaker 1: these guys were gonna be kind of the same. Their

400
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 1: stories would be roughly the same, and I was thinking

401
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Speaker 1: it was going to be a task to be able

402
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,680
Speaker 1: to distinguish and make ten different interesting chapters. I don't

403
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: know why I had that thought, because I couldn't have

404
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 1: been more wrong. Um that they do have. I will

405
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: say they all have some sort of unifying characteristics. One

406
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,679
Speaker 1: is they all love fast cars. I mean, for some reason,

407
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: you know, they were all driving Corvettes and Mustangs, and

408
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: that just seemed to fit their character. Uh, most of them,

409
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,840
Speaker 1: not all of them, but most of them really didn't

410
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: care for academics. They none of them were really you know,

411
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Speaker 1: excelled from a scholarship standpoint. It wasn't because they weren't smart.

412
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: They were all smart guys. They just they had other pride.

413
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: You know, they were more interested in in cars and

414
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: girls and stuff like that, and they just they just

415
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: didn't do that. Um. And outside of that, they they

416
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 1: are all extremely different. I mean, each their personalities, their experiences.

417
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 1: We've got all the different kind of aircraft in here

418
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Speaker 1: and minded wings. Uh. You know, we've got guys flying loaches,

419
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 1: flying cobras, flying Quie's, doing all kinds of different jobs

420
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,640
Speaker 1: in the cab or lift pilots or or that kind

421
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,360
Speaker 1: of thing, and their injuries are all completely different. As

422
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: you noticed. Uh, some of these guys were hurt very badly.

423
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Speaker 1: You know. Our our chapter two at Mike bond Guard,

424
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Speaker 1: who by the way, I got to meet in person

425
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,360
Speaker 1: three weeks ago down at v h p A. He's

426
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Speaker 1: eighty years old and he's still he goes. He walked

427
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: seven to eight miles a day, sharp, sharp as attack,

428
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: even though when he was injured he had a brain injury.

429
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: Uh you know, they removed part of his occipital load

430
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:26,719
Speaker 1: and um he's his story, of course, is very unique

431
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: because he had some out of body experiences, uh during

432
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: the whole thing. So it it It turned out to

433
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: be really a very amazing experience for me writing the book,

434
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 1: and I'm delighted that I was able to put this

435
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: book together, Mended Wings as a tribute to the guys that,

436
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: as I said at the beginning of the show, we're

437
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: really kind of my heroes, and I'm glad that I

438
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:56,719
Speaker 1: was able to do this. Yeah. Another interesting character in

439
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: the book was as you put a broke glide, Uh,

440
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: he was the only uh well they they they treated

441
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 1: him like an African American, but he really wasn't. He

442
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: was like Latin American. But the military treated him as

443
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: an African American and he had a whole different, um,

444
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: I guess, experience because he was dealing with other things

445
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: besides you know, being a helicopter father in Vietnam. Yeah,

446
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: well five Ramerios grew up as basically basically a Puerto

447
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: Rican from the Bronx and um so, like you said,

448
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: when when he gets into the army, he's basically told

449
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 1: in some some words that uh that I did use

450
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: in the book because he insisted, but I'm not going

451
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 1: to use on your podcast. But they pretty much just

452
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: told him you you're hey, you're a You're a black guy,

453
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,359
Speaker 1: whether you like it or not. And so he sort

454
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: of adopted that, and so he became a black guy.

455
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 1: And as as we relate in the book, there there

456
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 1: weren't a lot of there weren't a lot of blacks

457
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: in the flight program for for whatever reasons at the time,

458
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: and so that put him in a kind of a

459
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: unique situation. And and we we talked about the things

460
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: that he experienced, and um, he's he's a very interesting

461
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: character as well. I just I love him to death.

462
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: And all these all the black guys that that that

463
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: we talked about, including bro Clyde or Clyder Mayor, they

464
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: all served with tremendous pride for the United States. I

465
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 1: mean they I think their attitude was, uh, yeah, I

466
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: might be I might be black, I may be different,

467
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: you might treat me a little bit differently, But when

468
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,160
Speaker 1: the chips are down, by God, it doesn't matter who

469
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,680
Speaker 1: you are, who I am, I'm there. We're all on

470
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: the same team. And I think that that was true

471
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: by and large in the aviation units. I don't really

472
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: have a much experience outside of that, but I think

473
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: they maintained their their racial cohesion a lot more than

474
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: some of the ground units, where some of the tensions

475
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: got a little bit higher towards the end. That's that's

476
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: my understanding. Again, I don't have a lot of experience

477
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: with that. Yeah, you know, and uh, in dealing with

478
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: these guys that you're interviewing them, obviously many years after

479
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: the fact, but they all seem through their words that

480
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: they're all pretty humble guys. Yes, and this is and

481
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: I've been asked this before about the difference between Vietnam

482
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: vets and say, the previous generation. And I think that

483
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: that's a really interesting distinction to make because I know,

484
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: just from social settings, primarily a lot of World War

485
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,719
Speaker 1: Two vets, and they rightfully are very proud of what

486
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 1: they did. Uh. They will tell you about the things

487
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: they went through. Um. You know, it's maybe not a

488
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: marine who was on guadal Canal or something, but by

489
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: and large, these guys will will tell you about their

490
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: military experiences. And to this day, those that are still

491
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: with us are are proud about it, and rightfully so.

492
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 1: And they came back from overseas with a swagger to them. Uh.

493
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 1: And I think that's all good, and that's right. And

494
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: they may be called the Greatest generation, but I liked it. Well.

495
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: My phrase for the Vietnam generation is the forgotten generation,

496
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:29,640
Speaker 1: because they came home to a totally different experience. And

497
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: as we mentioned in um Eddie Hester's chapter, when he

498
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 1: comes back from Vietnam, Uh, he's seen some terrible things

499
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: and we won't go into those details. But he's walking

500
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: through L A X and a guy walks up and

501
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 1: spits on him. And I don't think that was a

502
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: unique experience. And so as a result our Vietnam vets

503
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: they are a much more humble group. And I think

504
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: that for years and years and years, not only did

505
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: they feel like that, they they they weren't welcome to

506
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: talk about their experiences. They felt like, if in to

507
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:13,479
Speaker 1: anybody but maybe their deepest, darkest, you know, confidence, they

508
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,959
Speaker 1: would get abused for bringing up their Vietnam experiences. And

509
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: so they I think they hit them away, they tucked

510
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 1: them away. And it's only now that you know within

511
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, what would you say, Steve, Maybe the

512
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: last ten years that we finally accepted them, we're finally

513
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: starting to say welcome home. We're finally starting to say

514
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: thank you for your service, and we're saying we don't

515
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: blame you, no matter how we felt about the war, Uh,

516
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: we don't blame you. You You did your you did your

517
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 1: service to your country. And that's another thing that that

518
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: I wanted to accomplish when I set out righting mended Wings,

519
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: was this is really my um my homage to to

520
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: these guys, to this generation of pilots. It's a way

521
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: for for me to introduce them to to people who

522
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: didn't understand what they went through. And that was one

523
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: of the things I set out to do, so that

524
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: so that everybody can start to have a better appreciation

525
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: of just what they went through, what they sacrificed, what

526
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: their families sacrificed, because there's some of that in the

527
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: book as well. And um, so that we can turn

528
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: to a Vietnam vett and and tell that vet, welcome home,

529
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: good job, you know, thank you for your service. Yeah,

530
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: it's funny you mentioned that because I you know, when

531
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: I was living up north, I belonged to a local

532
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: Veterans council and we had the VFW, the American Legion

533
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: guys all tied in together. And one of my friends

534
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: in that was a member of the hundred first and

535
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: hundred seventy Airborne and did a couple of tours in Vietnam,

536
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: and he talked about when he came home from his

537
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: last tour, um they told him when they were going

538
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: in l A not to wear their uniforms, and he

539
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: was like, the hell with that. Excuse my language, but

540
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm gonna wear my uniform. I'm a paratrooper,

541
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 1: and he said he got spit on in l a

542
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: x so. Um, you know, and when he got home

543
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: to our little town in Massachusetts, you know that they

544
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: told him, hey, to make sure you take off a uniform.

545
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,200
Speaker 1: Even around here, you know, even though it's your back home,

546
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 1: in your hometown. You know, people are very upset with

547
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: the way the war is going. In they ended up

548
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: blaming the guys who had no blame in that they

549
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: weren't making any of the you know, the decisions to

550
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: get us in or out of Vietnam. They just answered

551
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: their country's call. And it's it's interesting because the Vietnam vets,

552
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: you know, they had they never got that welcome home parade.

553
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,719
Speaker 1: And to get back to your earlier point, it's probably

554
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: what just in the past five years that that's kind

555
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: of changed. Yeah, it's been very slow to change, for sure,

556
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: because even when I know, when when you and I

557
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,719
Speaker 1: were in the military in the eighties, I still I

558
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: still felt like there was some animosity out there towards

559
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: people in in uniforms, certainly in per certain parts of

560
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: the country. Um, you know, when we were I went

561
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: through r OTC before I did my you know, the

562
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: big Green machine actual training, and we were discouraged from

563
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: wearing our uniforms off off campus. And then when I

564
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 1: was at Ford or California. I mean this is in

565
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: the mid eighties. Uh, you were discouraged from wearing your

566
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: uniform off base because people didn't appreciate the military and

567
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: you're likely to get some attention drawn to you that

568
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: that you didn't want. And it's not just the you

569
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 1: mentioned your guy wearing a uniform through l A X.

570
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: Back then, Uh, there was a very easy way to

571
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: tell who was on one Saturday argument and who was

572
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: on the other if you were a man, and that

573
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 1: is that if you in the military or recently in

574
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: the military, your hair was cut very short, and everyone

575
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: else made a point to where they're very hairy, their

576
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: hair very long, and so it was very easy to spot, uh,

577
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 1: vets or soldiers whether they're in uniform or not. That

578
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,959
Speaker 1: was kind of the purpose because they knew that you

579
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: had to keep your hair short if you're in the military.

580
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: And so if you if you didn't want to be

581
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: thought of as being in the military, you you grew

582
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: your hair out long and that's what happened to Eddie

583
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: Hester when he walked through the airport in l a X.

584
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: He was not in uniform. It'says he had short hair,

585
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: and so they made that assumption. But and speaking of Eddie, Steve,

586
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: I'm just I've kind of figured, you know, when you

587
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: mentioned that you were in the UH the walk training

588
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: at Fort Rucker, Alabama. You know, Eddie's the one who

589
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 1: who had the story about the candidate Frog. And I'm

590
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: sure you probably looked at that story and thought, yeah,

591
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: I I completely get that. I completely understand how all

592
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: that happened. I'm just guessing I could be yes, I

593
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: could tell you, well, I went through uh Warrnt Officer

594
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: of Canada training with one of my best friends from

595
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: Special Forces, and this guy, his name was Wade. He

596
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 1: was a total character and he took great delight and

597
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: pushing back against attack officers. And like in your book,

598
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: there's a lot of stories about the attack officers and

599
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: how nasty they are, in which they are. I mean,

600
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 1: I guess that's part of the deal with you know,

601
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: you're getting these kids straight in from high school that

602
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: that's probably needed. With a bunch of ten twelve year vets,

603
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: with in Special Forces. You know, we don't want to

604
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 1: hear that. So my buddy Wade was always pushing back,

605
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: and him and this other SF guy named Brian, they

606
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: decided when we got put on punishment because we weren't

607
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: scared enough of the tack officers, so they said, you

608
00:34:55,120 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: have to clean all the tackle officers, you know u faces.

609
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: So Brian went down to the p X and you

610
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:09,640
Speaker 1: remember those old Kodak flashbulbs, those uh little square tubes

611
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: you put on the camera and take a picture. So

612
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: Brian was he was he was a demolitions expert. So

613
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 1: he wired all the tax officers desk draws with these

614
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: little flash cubes where when they opened it, it would

615
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: just pop the flash and I mean, nothing was gonna

616
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 1: happen to him, but it would just startled that. So

617
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: he wired all their desks. So the next morning, you know,

618
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 1: they come in about four o'clock in the morning, because

619
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,919
Speaker 1: they would get us up about four or fifteen, we're

620
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: already all dressed. We went to the empty building next

621
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 1: to us. It was straight across from the tack officers,

622
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:47,720
Speaker 1: so we're all gotta faces planted there and were watching

623
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: them and they all command their shooting a breeze. And

624
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:51,840
Speaker 1: then the one guy sits at his desk and he

625
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 1: opens it and the thing pops and you see this

626
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: flash and he jumped out of his desk and you

627
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: could hear him custom so then you know he he's

628
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: like he pulls the next door open and it goes off.

629
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: And then they were all sitting there they were all

630
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,399
Speaker 1: laughing about it. Where we were shocked. We thought they'd

631
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: be angry. They were all laughing and then they were like, oh,

632
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: you're a desk and we're watching him. They're open it

633
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: and he's something flashes. And then one of the last

634
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 1: desk they had a fake rats trap with a big

635
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: rat in and because that was the guy that everyone

636
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: hated the most, and they were all up a rolling

637
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 1: on the floor. So we you know, we're like, okay,

638
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: it comes formation time for PT. We all walked outside

639
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: and then they just sat there for like five minutes,

640
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: not saying a word and then just staring at all

641
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: of us because we always in the same spot in

642
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: the formation. No, they never star did a word about it,

643
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,840
Speaker 1: like you know, but they just sit there star staring

644
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: at us. And then as we were going to PT,

645
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 1: one of the tack officers. I was one of the

646
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: road guards. He he comes running up beside me and

647
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: he said, you'll think you're really fan smart, don't you.

648
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: It's like, sir, he goes, you know what I'm talking about,

649
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: and he goes, don't worry, we got something planned for

650
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 1: you guys. When we came back, they had filled up

651
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: the drainage ditches with sandbags and they filled it up

652
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,399
Speaker 1: with muddy water and they made us all jump in.

653
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: So like the kids were all worried that it you know,

654
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: it's all muddy water. We're like just dive in. So

655
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 1: as we're diving in, we're splashing water all over them.

656
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: And they knew they didn't get no traction out of that,

657
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: so they let us go to breakfast. But yeah, every

658
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,400
Speaker 1: day it was something with them, and you know, whether

659
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: we didn't have a pet frog, but it was like

660
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: every day it was something. And uh yeah when I

661
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 1: when I read that chapter, I got a big chuckle

662
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: out of it because I think that my friend Wade

663
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: every day did something and uh, we were always walking.

664
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: Uh they had punishment and walks. It that we have

665
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: to put your fresh uniform on it and march around

666
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: the compound. In the Square something. I forget what they

667
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: called that, but yeah, yeah, we did lots of hours

668
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 1: of that. But so, UM, is there any thought of

669
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: maybe expanding to a second book with some of the

670
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: other guys that you interviewed? Um, you know, I that's

671
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: a good question. I don't know, Steve. I, like I said,

672
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: I had to break genre to kind of write this book.

673
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: And so and this one is doing very well. Minded

674
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: Wings is selling well. It's um. One of the By

675
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: the way, I think that one of the highest compliments

676
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 1: that that I received on this book is when the

677
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: guys who flew aircraft in Vietnam will read it and

678
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: they'll they'll email me or they'll call me whatever, and

679
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 1: they and they say, Colin, I don't know how you

680
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 1: did this because you weren't there, but this is the

681
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: most accurate portrayal I've ever read of flying helicopters in

682
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: Vietnam when I read Minded Wings, And that is extremely

683
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 1: high praise. So I I'm very pleased with the way

684
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: this book came out. Where do I where do I

685
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: go from here? I'm not sure because I do have

686
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: my first two books were intended as a trilogy. I

687
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: need to go back and finish those and then do

688
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: I come back with another genre similar to this. I'm

689
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 1: still trying to figure that out. So if you've got

690
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: some good ideas, Steve, just just send me, send me

691
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: any email. But um, but I haven't quite resolved that

692
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: that particular issue yet. Yeah. It's funny because, um, recently

693
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: we did an interview with an author that has always written, um,

694
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 1: like historical pieces like like yours is, and then he

695
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: had just ventured to his first uh novel where he's

696
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 1: writing fiction. It was historical fiction, and I asked him

697
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,760
Speaker 1: about it and he said it was really different. Uh,

698
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: you know, going from one genre to the next. Did

699
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: you find that uh the same? Obviously it was opposite

700
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 1: for you. You had written historical fiction and now you're

701
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: going into telling a true story. Did you find that

702
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: tough as well? Yes, yeah I did. It is a

703
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: tremendous change. The first two books, the first book is

704
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 1: called The Man with the Black Box and the second

705
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:33,320
Speaker 1: one is called Charlie Calling, and they are historical fiction,

706
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: but their mystery thrillers. So the kind of a short

707
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: way of describing them as is because there's some some

708
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,080
Speaker 1: supernatural stuff in it, it's kind of like Sherlock Holmes

709
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 1: Chasing Dracula or something. And the thing about it's the

710
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: historical fiction side I really enjoy because I'm a history

711
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: uh buff, you know, I guess, I guess I'm an

712
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: amateur historian, and so there's a lot of research involved

713
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: with that. But when you write a novel, you're just

714
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 1: taking it up. You know, it's it's uh, nobody can

715
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 1: tell you what the characters are supposed to be like,

716
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: or what they say or other than you know there

717
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 1: you unless they're a historical figure like I have Teddy

718
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: Roosevelt in both books, and some of the you know, uh,

719
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,319
Speaker 1: Sir Gray and Lord Lansdown and some of the British guys.

720
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: But uh, for me, honestly, Steve, writing fiction, what I

721
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 1: found was easier. It was a much more stream of

722
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 1: consciousness when you're writing a novel, and when you write nonfiction,

723
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 1: you got to get it right, and so there's there's

724
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: a ton of research that goes into it. I knew

725
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,280
Speaker 1: that there was gonna be a lot of helicopter pilots

726
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 1: who flew in Vietnam that we're reading this book, and

727
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: that I had to make sure it was so accurate

728
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: that they couldn't find fault with it. You know that

729
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: they had to read it and say, yeah, that's that's

730
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: what happened. That's that's what you got now. Uh. You know,

731
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: as I point out, if if you were to go

732
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 1: to uh, if you were to witness a car wrect today,

733
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: if you have ten witnesses, you get ten different stories.

734
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,480
Speaker 1: So I'm trying to write about events that happened more

735
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: than fifty years ago, and at some point you just

736
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: kind of have to do the best you can and

737
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: and hope that you got the most accurate story you could.

738
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,399
Speaker 1: But it was I found it to be a lot

739
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,400
Speaker 1: more work than I thought it was gonna be. It

740
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: took me two years to write the book, and uh

741
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 1: that was pretty much, you know, working on an almost

742
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 1: full time just to get to get it accurate. I guess. So, yeah,

743
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,799
Speaker 1: it was very different. Yeah, that that was answered. My

744
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: next question. I was going to ask you how long

745
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 1: the project took from start to finish, because obviously you

746
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,800
Speaker 1: have vets that are living in different parts of the country.

747
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 1: I don't know if you actually went and visited with

748
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: them or just talked telephonically or actually met them in person,

749
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: but I'm sure it was. There was a lot of

750
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: most of them, Yeah, most of them were over the phone.

751
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: I did. I did. There is one vet in Dallas,

752
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: my my chapter three vet, Chris Kilgore, who actually Chris

753
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: you asked earlier about sort of the inspiration for the book.

754
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: He's the guy that uh caused me to put the

755
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: purple heart angle into Mended Wings because because Chris was

756
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 1: a purple heart vet and I and I knew him

757
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 1: very well and I highly respected him, and so that

758
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 1: was sort of my um the inspiration to go that

759
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: that way. And I actually interviewed Chris directly, and then

760
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 1: Chris later sort of became a technical adviser on the

761
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,760
Speaker 1: book for me because I wanted to have at least

762
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: one other Vietnam VET other than the guy that I

763
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,919
Speaker 1: was writing the chapter on, to to sort of vet

764
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: each chapter and to see if we we spotted anything. Um.

765
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: And you know, Chris is an interesting guy as well

766
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: when you read his story and the things that he did.

767
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: As I mentioned in the book, a Coast Guard aircraft

768
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 1: that Chris flew is now in the Smithsonian and Chris's

769
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: helmet bag is in that is in that aircraft from

770
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 1: a mission heat flew was very dramatic mission that's detailed

771
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: in the book as well. Uh that happened, you know,

772
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: off the coast of Texas, a very terrible a maritime accident. Um.

773
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, you know what's funny you mentioned that because

774
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: I was just talking to somebody about the Air and

775
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: Space Museum for the Smithsonian and I was like, well,

776
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 1: the next time I go up there, I'm definitely gonna

777
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:35,840
Speaker 1: have to look for that because you said his helmet

778
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: is you have to kind of look for it, but

779
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,080
Speaker 1: it's in the seat, you know, kind of hidden from view.

780
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:48,240
Speaker 1: So that's something I definitely will look for. And but um, yeah,

781
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: this this book, it's you know, for our listeners out there.

782
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: I can't recommend it enough. It was, like I said,

783
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 1: it was a page turner. It delves into a very

784
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: diverse I guess a group of helicopter pilots. They all

785
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: come from different backgrounds. Um, I guess they're all. The

786
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: one thing that, other than the love of flying, was

787
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 1: that linked them all together was like they were kind

788
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: of adrenaline junkies. They liked action sports, maybe not so

789
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: much team sports, but individual sports. And you know, when

790
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,839
Speaker 1: you when you look at this story, and then, as

791
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: you said, some of the vets that reached out to you,

792
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: I encourage all of our listeners again check out this book,

793
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: Mended Wings, because it tells some horrific stories of what

794
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: these guys went through, and it was it's very moving

795
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: and it's like I said, when I got to chapter ten,

796
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: I was very disappointed in the book because it wasn't

797
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 1: a chapter eleven, So we can't recommend book. And they're

798
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 1: they're all, well, thank you, Steve, and you know, they're

799
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: they're all. They're all. They all suffered different injuries. And

800
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: as you noted, some of these guys were hurt very badly, uh,

801
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: and some of them not so much. You know, some

802
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 1: of them maybe they were they were convalescing for a

803
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: few weeks and they were back in the cockpit, but

804
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 1: that's that's only part of their of the trauma they suffered.

805
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 1: And and it's it's almost like it's kind of weird,

806
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: but it's it's almost like the the inverse of the

807
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: physical trauma you suffered is the emotional trauma that you suffered. Uh.

808
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: And I think there was that that psychology there for

809
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: a lot of these guys that they just it's very

810
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: difficult for for um. And I've not been into combat,

811
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: so I can't you know, al they win in the army.

812
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 1: I've never been in combat, so I have not experienced

813
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: this firsthand. But my observation is that, uh, for the

814
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: guys that came back unscathed or with minor injuries, it's

815
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 1: very difficult for them to get their head around the

816
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 1: fact that that their their buddies were the ones that

817
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 1: suffered the worst, and and they can't it's hard for

818
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: them to accept. That's that's really really hard. Um. And

819
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: so I found that interesting as well when I was

820
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: when I was going through this war. And maybe that's

821
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 1: where you know that the Vietnam Wall is to some

822
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: extent very helpful to this generation. And I mentioned that

823
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 1: a few times in the book, but uh, And also

824
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 1: I had the opportunity to to talk to Jan Scruggs,

825
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: who's the founder of the Vietnam War More Memorial, about

826
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: the book as well, and I thanked him for for

827
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: having U had the you know, the courage and the

828
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: foresight to really push that project through because I think

829
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: most Vietnam vests, UH, for them the ability to go

830
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: and and to see those names and to touch the

831
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: wall and and kind of um release some of those

832
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,880
Speaker 1: feelings is helpful. But uh, and I'm hoping that books

833
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: like this, like Mended Wings is also helpful in that

834
00:47:55,560 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: regard as well. Well. We've really appreciate your time this afternoon.

835
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: We appreciate the book obviously, and and again Mended Wings.

836
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: All of our listeners out there and our readers first,

837
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: SOFTWAREP dot com please check this out. This is a

838
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 1: great book. It's going to be a valued part of

839
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: your military library out there. It's something you'll go back

840
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 1: to when you're trying to research some of the stuffer

841
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: Vietnam error because all of these guys suffered I think

842
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,440
Speaker 1: without a doubt all of them had PTS when they

843
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: came home. So but before we go, I have the

844
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: read our little blurb here. If you want to get

845
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 1: soft Reap on your phone, download our free mobile app

846
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,720
Speaker 1: and get easy access to our articles, podcast gear reviews,

847
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: all perfectly formatted to your device. Please subscribe to SOFTWAREP

848
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: dot com to get access to our library of e

849
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: books in our exclusive team room forms of content available

850
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: on all your Apple and Android the vices. Colin, thanks

851
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: for taking the time with us this afternoon. We really

852
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 1: appreciate it, and uh, kudos to you as a as

853
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 1: a pilot yourself. I think you nailed it with this book.

854
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: It was really like I said, it was a page

855
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 1: turner and and one that I really enjoyed reading. Well,

856
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: thank you, Steve, and I commend everyone to my website

857
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: if they'd like some more information about the book or

858
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: or about me. It's www dot Collin c O l

859
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: I N PAS and Paul cahoun c A h O

860
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: N dot com. The best place to get Mended Wings

861
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 1: would be on Amazon that you're you're guaranteed to find

862
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: it there, So I commend everybody to that. And I

863
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 1: really appreciate the time to come on your show, Steve.

864
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 1: I appreciate as a VET all you do for vets

865
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 1: and uh and I want to say thank you for

866
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,720
Speaker 1: your service as well, and and thank you for your show,

867
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 1: and thank you for to software for for having me

868
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: on today. Well it was our pleasure as I said before.

869
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: But yeah, to all our listeners out there, please check

870
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: it out and thanks for listening to our podcast. As always,

871
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: without our listeners and readers, we wouldn't have a site.

872
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,760
Speaker 1: So that's what uh, that's what pays the bills and

873
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 1: and keeps us all going. So for all of us

874
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: here at Software up Radio and software dot com, we

875
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 1: want to thank all of you for listening in our

876
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 1: guests today, callin Calhoun. We'll be back with another podcast

877
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: real soon. Until then, Software up Radio on Time Montarget,

878
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: We'll be back. Been listening to your self repre radio?

879
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: Mhm