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Speaker 1: Body bats with Joseph Scott Moore. When you're growing up

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Speaker 1: and going into manhood. One of the things that at

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Speaker 1: least I found myself doing through my I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maturation process. It feels weird saying that connecting the word

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Speaker 1: mature with me is it's a bit of a stretch. However,

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Speaker 1: I would often ask myself, you know, just like mister

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Speaker 1: Lebowski did in The Big Lebowski, Sir, what is a man?

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Speaker 1: And I've thought about that, thought about that a lot.

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Speaker 1: You know, what defines you as a man? And I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of us think that being a man

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Speaker 1: means that you have a certain amount of masculine power,

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Speaker 1: that you can wield it at will, and that you

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Speaker 1: have the ability to not only build, but to destroy.

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Speaker 1: But you know, for me, it has always been the

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Speaker 1: level of mercy and control I can give to others

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Speaker 1: that I don't really know. Just think about that, just

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Speaker 1: for a second. If you have the ability to literally

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Speaker 1: crush someone that has some kind of deficit when compared

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Speaker 1: to yourself, the measure of the man is to show mercy,

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Speaker 1: to show grace, and maybe even give them hope. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're going to discuss a case that might be one

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Speaker 1: of the most sinister things I have come across in

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Speaker 1: the news in sometime, and as I always say, that's

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Speaker 1: saying a lot. But today we're there, my friends. Today

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about a young man, a young

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Speaker 1: man who has probably got some mental disabilities, that was

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Speaker 1: at the mercy of not just one male notice I

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Speaker 1: didn't say men, but two that chose to do one

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Speaker 1: of the most horrific things that I've read about and

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Speaker 1: sometime to this poor defenseless kid. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 1: and this is bodybacks brother Dave. I was sickened by

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Speaker 1: this when I read it. I use terms like plumbing

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Speaker 1: the depths. You know that we can't take the measure

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Speaker 1: of house of pravty has no basement. And I say

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Speaker 1: those things all the time that wrote people get tired

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Speaker 1: of hearing it. But I'm beginning to come up or

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Speaker 1: I'm beginning to fail at coming up with other descriptors

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Speaker 1: here other than right now, I think the only only

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Speaker 1: word that really sufficeses is evil at this point in time.

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Speaker 2: Here here is the Nightshell Gang, and this is what

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Speaker 2: we're going to break down for you. Three males are

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Speaker 2: charge with killing Matthew Wistman. Now Matthew was a man

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Speaker 2: of he's twenty five. I had twenty four brother and

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Speaker 2: he did graduate from high school in twenty eighteen. Matthew

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Speaker 2: Wisman grew up to be a wonderful young man, very trusting.

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Speaker 2: He trusted his cousins because they were his cousins. And

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Speaker 2: even though they were mean to him. And when I

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Speaker 2: say mean, I'm not just talking Joe about they played

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Speaker 2: jokes on him and pryings on him, I'm talking about

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Speaker 2: they were abusive towards him, physically, verbally, in any other

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Speaker 2: way they possibly could. These cousins Alexander Wisman eighteen and

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Speaker 2: Jeremy Absher twenty six. They're half brothers and first cousins

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Speaker 2: of Matthew Wisman, the victim. The third man is a

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Speaker 2: person named Stephen Gaddis. Stephen Gaddis is twenty eight, and

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Speaker 2: he is not related to any of the other three.

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Speaker 2: But Matthew Wissman went missing in April Joe but was

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Speaker 2: not reported missing until July. That's part of the problem

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Speaker 2: right off the bat. The other part of the problem

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Speaker 2: is that during that time between April and July, there

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Speaker 2: were a lot of stories being told about where he was.

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Speaker 2: You know, where did Matthew go? Well, you know, he

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Speaker 2: checked into the Water Street Rescue Mission in Lancaster. We're

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Speaker 2: up in Pennsylvania, by the way, along the Pennsylvania Maryland

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Speaker 2: border a lot of the time southern Pennsylvania. Someone dropped

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Speaker 2: him off at a rehab facility in Philadelphia was another one.

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Speaker 2: And then there was the third one. This third rumor

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Speaker 2: that was circulating around was somebody jumped him and threw

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Speaker 2: him off a cliff. Now, Joe, of all of the

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Speaker 2: options here for rumors, option three was the closest to

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Speaker 2: believe it or not. But it wasn't just someone. It

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Speaker 2: was his two cousins and Steven Gaddis. What they did

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Speaker 2: to Matthew Wisman is the stuff of nightmares and without reason. See,

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Speaker 2: Matthew was aware of a drive by house shooting that

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Speaker 2: took place. He knew that Stephen Gaddis did it, and

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Speaker 2: police got Matthew Wisman to work with them, you know,

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Speaker 2: to tell the truth Matthew. Now, Joe, I don't know

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Speaker 2: the rules of law when it comes to this. I

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Speaker 2: don't know if police can talk to somebody.

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Speaker 1: Who is.

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Speaker 2: I don't know the rules, I guess, but Matthew Wisman

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Speaker 2: at twenty four was working with police to solve this crime.

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Speaker 2: You know, you shoot into a house, you shoot into

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Speaker 2: an occified dwelling, you can kill somebody. It appams.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I don't think there's any I don't think

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Speaker 1: there's any legal proviso. If someone is an emancipated adult

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Speaker 1: and you know that they've been deemed either by the

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Speaker 1: state or you know, some medical facility that they can

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Speaker 1: live independently, and there's nothing to say that he could

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Speaker 1: not have lived independently. Yeah, uh he You know, look

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Speaker 1: in in the public where there's nobody out there that

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Speaker 1: is perfected. You know that you're going to come across

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Speaker 1: on the street. Everybody has got some type of deficit. Okay,

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Speaker 1: even the seemingly most healthy among us. All Right, it

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Speaker 1: all depends on to what degree they are. Now, if

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Speaker 1: the police were to take someone that they were, they'd

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Speaker 1: have to be aware of it that they could leverage

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Speaker 1: because of some kind of mental incapacity. I could see

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Speaker 1: that there would be problems with that, but no, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that it would. It would It would diminish,

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Speaker 1: diminish their ability to cooperate and provide you know, provide

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Speaker 1: legitimate information to them. I mean, we're talking about a

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Speaker 1: shooting day, right, you know they're going to try to

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Speaker 1: They're going to try You know, when you approach somebody

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Speaker 1: on the street, if you're an investigator, it's not like

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Speaker 1: there's been a battery of psychological tests and it's been

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Speaker 1: done before you go in and say, maybe we have

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Speaker 1: a conversation with you, right, you know, and you never

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Speaker 1: know where those conversations are going to lead. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, somebody willfully gives up information. Man, that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a nugget, dude.

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Speaker 2: And Matthew did. And on his phone, Joe, there were

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Speaker 2: text messages between Matthew and I'm assuming because they didn't

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Speaker 2: say who, but I'm assuming it was the law enforcement

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Speaker 2: of investigators, you know. And in these text messages, Matthew

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Speaker 2: is sharing information. And it was those messages the idea

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Speaker 2: that he was going to tell the truth that led

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Speaker 2: to his demise. And I really, you know, you pointed

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Speaker 2: out the depth of depravity, you know, and how far

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Speaker 2: we go down. You got a twenty four year old man,

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Speaker 2: Matthew Wisman, his cousins Alexander and At Wisman and Jeremy

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Speaker 2: Absher and Stephen Gaddis, they're all together and they take

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Speaker 2: Matthew's phone. Stephen Gaddis looks on the phone these text

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Speaker 2: messages that Matthew is telling cops what happened, and that

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Speaker 2: sets in action everything that we're going to tell you about.

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Speaker 2: Now it begins with Matthew Wisman telling police the truth

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Speaker 2: in text form. That's what's led to you.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry. So this goes back. Now, this goes back

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Speaker 1: all the way to what is it January twenty fourth,

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Speaker 1: the shooting took place in Maryland? Is that accurate? Yes?

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Speaker 1: And he knew at that moment Tom that these or

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Speaker 1: this one individual is connected to it. So this is

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Speaker 1: not something that you know that, this is something that

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Speaker 1: information he had held on to for some time. And

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Speaker 1: you really wonder what's going on in the minds of

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Speaker 1: individuals that, you know, is it festering in their brain

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Speaker 1: the entire time because they're you know, you've got a

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Speaker 1: perpetrator that has shot, has fired a weapon that is

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Speaker 1: involved in a shooting, and is it festering, you know,

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Speaker 1: is it festering right beneath the surface. But curious how

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Speaker 1: the target you know for this is somebody it's not

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Speaker 1: the most. It's not the strongest among us, right right,

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Speaker 1: but it's the weakest, and they're probably seeing this young

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Speaker 1: man as literally the weakest link. I really wonder how

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Speaker 1: many other people were threatened along way that may have

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Speaker 1: had knowledge of this. Dave.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, there's no telling based on what we know now,

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Speaker 2: there's no telling. So you've got the shooting in January

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, you've got investigators in doing their thing,

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Speaker 2: and here we are it's April, and they get they

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Speaker 2: being the two cousins, and Gaddis get Matthew alone find

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Speaker 2: out that he is telling police the truth that happens

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Speaker 2: the first week of April. Okay, now, Joe.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the big questions here, Dave, is

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Speaker 1: if this poor young man is communicating on his phone

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Speaker 1: and their text messages, how does one go about compelling

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Speaker 1: said young man to open his phone and display what

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Speaker 1: he has been talking about in confidence to the police.

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Speaker 1: This is, in fact, where the story begins to take

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Speaker 1: a very very brutal turn. You know, police investigators go

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Speaker 1: to all kinds of links to take phones nowadays because

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Speaker 1: they are you know, as well stated, they're crime scenes

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Speaker 1: that exist in our pockets. I like to refer to

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Speaker 1: to cell phones in that manner now, because they tell

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Speaker 1: everything that we're doing, and they see everything, they hear everything,

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Speaker 1: and they spend a lot of time. Cops spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of time, you know, getting warrants and those sorts

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Speaker 1: of things to get phones open. And how many of

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Speaker 1: these cases have we covered over the years, you know,

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Speaker 1: relative to you know, crime stories. You know that you

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Speaker 1: and I both appear on where we're you know, we

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Speaker 1: you know, it's almost like a race against the clock,

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Speaker 1: you know, and they want to get to this data.

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Speaker 1: But in this case, Dave, it would seem that no

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Speaker 1: warrant was required because we're talking about police that are

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Speaker 1: trying to elicit information. We're talking about really nefarious people

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Speaker 1: here that are trying to extract information from this from

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Speaker 1: this poor young man. Right.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Matthew Wisman, our victim. He was at the

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Speaker 2: East drun is it Drew Moore Township Drummore More? Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania. It's about sixty five miles out west of Philadelphia.

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Speaker 2: That's where his cousins have been living. They're together on

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Speaker 2: the night of April third, twenty twenty four, about three

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Speaker 2: months after the shooting into an occupied dwelling. Jeremy Absher

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Speaker 2: and Stephen Gaddis get hold of Matthew's phone and they

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Speaker 2: find a text message thread where Matthew Wisman indicates he's

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Speaker 2: cooperating with police that are investigating Gaddis and the shooting

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Speaker 2: of a house.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: Pam Wisman is Matthew's mom, and she pointed out that

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Speaker 2: Matthew has learning disability and even though he had been

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Speaker 2: beaten mercilessly by his cousins in the past, he still

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Speaker 2: trusted them. It's what my daughter had it calls goldfish,

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Speaker 2: just being a goldfish, meaning no matter what happens, blow

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Speaker 2: it off, move on. If it's bad, just forget it

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Speaker 2: and move on. That kind of thinking, and that's how

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Speaker 2: Matthew went through life a lot. So on this night

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Speaker 2: on April third, twenty twenty four, Stephen Gaddis and the

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Speaker 2: two other men who are twenty five and seventeen at

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Speaker 2: the time, drag Matthew Wissman into a bathroom and Joe

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Speaker 2: they beat him senseless and then force him to take

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Speaker 2: a shower to wash away any evidence have you ever

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Speaker 2: heard of that.

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Speaker 1: I've heard of victims being forced to take showers most

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Speaker 1: of the time, though, it's in relation to sexual sexual assaults.

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Speaker 1: And you know, we could go down this road relative

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Speaker 1: to individuals that sit there in very granular detail, telling

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Speaker 1: the victims what areas of the body to wash, how

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Speaker 1: to go about it, these sorts of things, taking their

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Speaker 1: time to do it. However, in a standard beating, what

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Speaker 1: we're going to do, wash off contusions, wash off abrasions.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's that's that serves no purpose at the end.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you could if he's bleeding profusely,

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Speaker 1: which now, and I got to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: we will never know, you know, we we just want

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Speaker 1: and we're going to tell you why in just second.

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Speaker 1: But the lunacy of this unless unless there was some

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Speaker 1: kind of other component involved here, and I go back

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Speaker 1: to my earlier statement, because the only time I've ever

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Speaker 1: heard about someone being forced to clean themselves at the

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Speaker 1: hands of their attacker is in a sexual circumstance. Now,

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Speaker 1: this gets really dark, darker if you can imagine, and

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Speaker 1: it gets you know, that specter begins to raise its head,

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Speaker 1: and I would think that that's a question investigators would ask,

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Speaker 1: you know what, you know, why would you require this

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Speaker 1: young man to wash himself, because certainly, even you speaking

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Speaker 1: to a suspect, even you understand that if you have

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Speaker 1: bruises beneath your skin, it's not like you've written on

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Speaker 1: your skin with a ballpoint pen. Dear heart, it's it

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Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't wash off. So what's your purpose in

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Speaker 1: having him wash himself? I mean, are you thinking about

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Speaker 1: becoming a DNA scientist? That's it, that's what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: You're thinking contact DNA here? Aren't you touch DNA? Now?

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Speaker 1: They're idiots, that's what they are. And so for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: they believe that by compelling the young man to wash

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Speaker 1: himself that they're going to get rid of any kind

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Speaker 1: of evidence there. I have a lot more questions just

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Speaker 1: about this little piece of it, because I got to

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Speaker 1: tell you, Dave, the cases I've covered, I've never heard

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Speaker 1: of this so replause that it applause that there's something

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Speaker 1: there's more depth here, or there's something else that's beneath

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Speaker 1: the surface, if you will.

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Speaker 2: That's what I was wondering. I was hoping you had

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Speaker 2: a insight different than the only thing I'm thinking. But

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Speaker 2: at any rate, they did this, and we know this

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Speaker 2: because of the rest of the story Gaddis after he

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Speaker 2: takes the bath, after he's been beaten senseless. They then

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Speaker 2: they all three take Matthew downstairs and they sit him

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Speaker 2: at a table, and Gaddis leans down and tells Matthew whismin,

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Speaker 2: how would you feel if it's your last supper? Sitting

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Speaker 2: there looking at a meal in front of him, how

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Speaker 2: do you feel if it's your last supper? Matthew Wistman

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Speaker 2: knew in that moment what was going to happen, because

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Speaker 2: he started to weep.

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Speaker 1: And excuse me, but just so that I understand, his

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Speaker 1: own blood relatives are there, Yep, his person. They're bearing

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Speaker 1: witness to this. Those that come from his own genetic

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Speaker 1: pool are there. And let me here, here's one more

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Speaker 1: if you like that one. They've probably been around this

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Speaker 1: kid their entire life, like brothers. They know they understand

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Speaker 1: his limits, if you will intellectually. But here you go,

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Speaker 1: and here they are. You know, an absence of a

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Speaker 1: bravery is glaring here. I think an absence of what

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Speaker 1: it means to be a true man is here. Because

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Speaker 1: you know, anybody can can go about killing those things

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Speaker 1: that are defenseless, right it really really, you know, takes

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Speaker 1: someone that has the will, the free will to say no,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going. Not only am I not going to participate,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to allow it to happen. But yet

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Speaker 1: here we are and this this monster standing over this

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Speaker 1: young man telling him this, and then he begins to weep,

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Speaker 1: you know, and I think about that we're taping this

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Speaker 1: literally during in the middle of Holy Week, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I get to think, you know, it makes me think

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Speaker 1: about the Last Supper, you know, And this kid understood,

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Speaker 1: you know, what he was looking at. Let me tell

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Speaker 1: you what else he understood. He understood that he knew

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Speaker 1: this guy was already involved in a shooting, right he

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Speaker 1: knows that this guy really has no boundaries. And boy

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Speaker 1: did he ever find out that this is not the

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Speaker 1: only degree to which he would go. It's not just

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Speaker 1: a veil thread, is it? Dave? Oh Joe?

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Speaker 2: After the Last Supper, Stephen Gaddis loads up two syringes

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Speaker 2: with fencanyl and then the three men forced Wispman into

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Speaker 2: a vehicle. Now, Joe, they inject him, I say they,

285
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Speaker 2: but it's really Stephen Gaddis who injects Matthew Wisman with

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Speaker 2: this lethal dose of fentanyl. He's already been beaten senseless, remember,

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Speaker 2: so he's got injuries, he's beaten to a pulp. He

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Speaker 2: knows what's coming, he doesn't know how. But then he

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Speaker 2: is injected. They hold him down, you know, on Stephen

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Speaker 2: Gaddis's command, hold him down, pull up his shirt sleeve

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Speaker 2: and jab needles into him him and shoot him full

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Speaker 2: of fentanyl and then drag his body. They wait until

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Speaker 2: he dies. He's got no pulse left. And by the way, Joe,

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Speaker 2: is that when you know somebody's dead no pulse?

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, yeah, it's it's one of the seven

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Speaker 1: cardinal signs of death. We've got seven of them, and

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Speaker 1: that's at the top of the heat, lack of their pulseless,

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Speaker 1: lack of respiration. I think I can go through the

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Speaker 1: rest of them.

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Speaker 2: But if you don't have repult, you can be brought back, right,

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you hear somebody that's that's standing there with

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Speaker 1: a crash cart to make right and I think, but however,

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Speaker 1: with fentanyl on board, it's a lost cause. You know,

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Speaker 1: you can see the nose of the ship proverbally dipping

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Speaker 1: beneath the surface. There's you know, check yourself here all

307
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Speaker 1: hope is lost at this point in time, there's no

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Speaker 1: way you could actually bring them back from the edge.

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Speaker 1: And and here's here's the thing, Dave. When you know,

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Speaker 1: when when it is stated and the police have stated

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Speaker 1: this that it was two syringes loaded up with fentanyl,

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Speaker 1: that's very non specific, right, we don't know what the

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Speaker 1: dosage was. But as you and I know, just with

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Speaker 1: fentanyl alone, and this is obviously this has been put

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Speaker 1: into some kind of liquid medium. Okay, we know that

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Speaker 1: relative to lethal dosages of fentanyl, if you get you know,

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Speaker 1: if you just take seven I think it's seven grains

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Speaker 1: of salt, is it seven or six, that represents each

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Speaker 1: one of those little grains represents in total a lethal

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Speaker 1: dosage of fentanyl. That's how strong the stuff is. And

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Speaker 1: this guy's got two syringes. Now we'll never actually know

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Speaker 1: the actual dosage here, but you know, this is I

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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know. Maybe they're rationalizing it in

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Speaker 1: their brain that yeah, well we beat him up, so

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Speaker 1: we're going to put him out of his misery. Oh

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Speaker 1: and by the way, we're going to solve this problem

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Speaker 1: that we have somebody that has a direct tie to

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Speaker 1: the police, but out of all things you could do,

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Speaker 1: this would seem to be one of the glaring red

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Speaker 1: flags that would put the police onto you, even with

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Speaker 1: a heavier hand, because now your primary this is not

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Speaker 1: like the movies, you know, where you think that, well,

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Speaker 1: if we get rid of this guy that has rolled

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Speaker 1: over on us to the cops, all of our problems

335
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Speaker 1: are going to disappear. No, you've just called down hell

336
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Speaker 1: upon you at that point in time, because now they're

337
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Speaker 1: going to double their efforts because they know that this

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Speaker 1: kid that they whatever format this quote unquote deal is

339
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Speaker 1: whatever it takes. You know, they're going to now redouble

340
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Speaker 1: what they were doing and they're going to put the pressure.

341
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Speaker 1: So now it's not and it's not necessarily on the

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Speaker 1: principle this goddess character. They're going to go after the

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Speaker 1: two cousins now, and that's how they these all these

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Speaker 1: things work. You know, we always hear Dave that one

345
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Speaker 1: person can keep a secret, and that is that is

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Speaker 1: God's honest truth. All Right, you get three, you get

347
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Speaker 1: three people in a group, your chances are almost nil

348
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Speaker 1: that you're going to be able to keep a secret

349
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Speaker 1: like this, and particularly when it rises to the level

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Speaker 1: of now an individual is not just involved in a

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Speaker 1: shooting in Maryland. Okay, now they have involved themselves and

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Speaker 1: sure enough homicide. And brother, it's not any kind of homicide.

353
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Speaker 1: This is a torture homicide. This is a kidnapped homicide.

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Speaker 1: This is a poison homicide that involves desecration of human

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Speaker 1: remains and tampering with evidence. So after they inject this

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Speaker 1: kid with what we believe were two boluses of fentanyl,

357
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Speaker 1: remember they're saying that there were two syringes here, they

358
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Speaker 1: inject this kid with this, and you know he would

359
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: have slipped off pretty quickly into this almost Komoto state.

360
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Speaker 1: They didn't take him out in a field and bear him,

361
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Speaker 1: didn't drop him on the hospital ramp. They subjected him

362
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Speaker 1: to nature. They went to a bridge, Dave, and this

363
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Speaker 1: bridge goes over a creek, and this is in like

364
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Speaker 1: far southeast Maryland and Pennsylvania, and push this young man's

365
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Speaker 1: mortal remains over the edge of the bridge, hoping, I

366
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Speaker 1: guess that no one would would ever find him, and

367
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Speaker 1: deposited him there and then just got back in their

368
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Speaker 1: car and drove off. Man.

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Speaker 2: But now you mentioned something right before the break, Joe,

370
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Speaker 2: and I kind of need to go back to it,

371
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Speaker 2: because I get you with conspiracy to commit murder, aggravated assault.

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Speaker 2: We documented those kidnapping obviously intimidation of a witness, because

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Speaker 2: that's what started all of this. But did you say

374
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Speaker 2: abuse of a corpse? Did you say something along those lines?

375
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Speaker 1: I did, and I don't even know that those charges exist. However,

376
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Speaker 1: in my mind, as an advocate for the dead, that

377
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: you and I have taken this mantle on and we

378
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Speaker 1: shall bear it for the length of the life of

379
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:51,199
Speaker 1: the show. These remains were desecrated. They were desecrated, they

380
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,360
Speaker 1: were abused because they are accepted things that we do

381
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Speaker 1: that separate us from animals, the way we treat our dead,

382
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Speaker 1: and this ain't one of them. Brother. You take this

383
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: young man and you toss him over a guardrail on

384
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Speaker 1: a bridge out in the middle of nowhere, and he subjected.

385
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Speaker 1: He's got a mama back home. He's got a mama

386
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Speaker 1: back home that loved him and had loved him since

387
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Speaker 1: a moment he entered this world. And he had value.

388
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Speaker 1: He had value. He had more value than three thugs

389
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Speaker 1: that are just going to allow him to float his

390
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: mortal remains float down this creek, subjected to nature, to

391
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: animals to the blistering sun and have him decomposing there.

392
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Speaker 1: That's just not the way it's done. It's not the

393
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: way it's done an acceptable society. And I think that

394
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,479
Speaker 1: this really goes to the extent for me at least,

395
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Speaker 1: you know you, death is a mirror. It's truly a

396
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: mirror on our society. It shows the reflection of who

397
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: we really are. And what I mean by that, the

398
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:13,080
Speaker 1: way we treat our dead, who are the least among us, okay,

399
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: is a reflection of who we are as people. You know,

400
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: they talk about that with prisoners and all that stuff.

401
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 1: But when it gets down to it, and I know

402
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 1: people will say off the cuff, well, the dead have

403
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: no more problems. No, you're right, I guess they don't.

404
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: We have a problem. We have a problem because we're

405
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: incapable of honoring our dead, or certain groups of us are.

406
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: And those individuals, to me, those are some of the

407
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: most I don't know how to say it, they are

408
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: some of the most rotten to the core individuals that

409
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: you can possibly ever come across, because they'll go to

410
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 1: any links just to save there on hide. And that's

411
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: what this comes down to, is the ultimate in selfish behavior,

412
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Speaker 1: and that's kind of an understatement any day.

413
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Speaker 2: Well, they injected him with fentanel, caused his death, and

414
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: then throw his remains over the side of a bridge

415
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 2: into the water and then gone like nothing happened. You know,

416
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: that's he's So the thing is that Matthew Wistman goes missing. Okay,

417
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 2: nobody knows where he is. Rumors start floating. As I

418
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,199
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, you know that he's been he's at a

419
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: rescue mission, he's in rehab whatever, just things that are thrown

420
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: out there. But finally his mother she's had her she's

421
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 2: had her fill of excuses and stories about where her

422
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: adult son is. And you know, when you're being told

423
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 2: by cousins and you know, relatives where he is, you know,

424
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: I think he's over here or there, you kind of

425
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 2: believe it because you want to. But then at a

426
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: certain point, a mama knows this is not normal. Three

427
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 2: months is too long, and she no longer listening to

428
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 2: the stories that are being told. She goes to the police.

429
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 2: So already he's gone three months. We know he's in

430
00:28:53,800 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 2: the creek, but she doesn't. Police begin the investigation, and

431
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: I think they're able to get a good idea of

432
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: what happened early on, Joe, based on who's involved here.

433
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: You know, who were Matthew's friends, Who are the people

434
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 2: he hung out with. So police break them down and

435
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: they find out what happened. They find out from Stephen Gaddis.

436
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 2: He ends up over time telling the truth. But when

437
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 2: the body of Matthew has found, it's August eighth. He's

438
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 2: tossed into this creek in April. April. Third, Joe, what

439
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: condition would a body be that had been injected with

440
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: fentanel having been and I'm curious, does a beating before

441
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: you before you die? Is that going to cause you

442
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 2: to decomposed differently than if you were not beaten to

443
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: a pulp before you.

444
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: A excellent question. Yeah. The way it causes rapid development

445
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: of decomposition is if there are any open wounds. Okay, okay,

446
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 1: that's like it's like ringing the dinner bell, if you will,

447
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: at a microbial level, and also at just from local fauna.

448
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: And what I'm talking about is flies, because if you

449
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: have open areas, like if you you know, and as

450
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 1: we've talked about, I think we did a whole segment

451
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: on we did an entire episode on blunt force trauma.

452
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: If I haven't, we're going to. We did sont blunt

453
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 1: force trauma. Crais laceration. So you're being beaten. That's more

454
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 1: than likely the type of injury you're going to sustain

455
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 1: that leads to an open woe. And if that's the case,

456
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: then all the little nasties get into that open wound.

457
00:30:54,720 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 1: The body is no longer intact okay, externally, and that

458
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,800
Speaker 1: can prompt early on set of decomposition, particularly in that

459
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: specific area where the trauma took place. Okay. Now I

460
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: don't know necessarily how far out that would extend, but

461
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: it's going to increase probability. Now you have a body

462
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: that's been placed in an aquatic environment. And by the way,

463
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: this this body of water that that that he is

464
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: placed into is actually called the kind of Wingo Creek,

465
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: And interestingly enough, it's not a very long creek and

466
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: it rests entirely inside of Maryland. There's like a couple

467
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: of little state roads across it. But guess what it

468
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: dumps into. It dumps into this Susquehanna River, which is

469
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: a major waterway, and you know, obviously that's that's going

470
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: to be their their end game, you know, to get

471
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: him into this major waterway, and that they would have

472
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: been you know, fully aware of, you know, relative to

473
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: relative to you know, having lived in that area, and

474
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:12,000
Speaker 1: of course you know the the Susquehanna actually feeds in

475
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 1: to the Chesapeake, you know, and so then you get

476
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: into that area. So you know, as crow flies, you're

477
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: really not that far from Baltimore, you know, headed northbound, wow,

478
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: you know, toward where this creek is. Maybe that was

479
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: their end game. But along the way the body justin

480
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: let's see, we're talking April, April, May, June, July, we're

481
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: talking five months down range. The body is going to

482
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: be in such a state that one of the big

483
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: questions would be, I think, could you still appreciate the

484
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: injuries that were perpetrated against him, you know in that

485
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: house where he was beaten. Remember he's made to take

486
00:32:54,800 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: the shower, all that sort of stuff. Maybe I would

487
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: think it all depends on how over the top they

488
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: were were their lacerations, which comes as a result of

489
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: blunt force trauma potentially, but it's going to be very

490
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: very difficult now if he sustained any kind of broken

491
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: bones like did they kick him in the ribs, punch

492
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: him in the ribs, Do they break his jaw? Do

493
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 1: they k not tooth out any of that kind of thing?

494
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: Do they stomp on him anywhere? Yeah, you could still

495
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: appreciate those breaks. Here's another thing, because you know the

496
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 1: big obviously he did not die as a result of

497
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: the of the beating, Okay, because what did they do?

498
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: They said, well, after he was beaten, takes shower, right,

499
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: whatever else went on, you know, adjacent to that beating.

500
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: One of the things we'd look for with injections is

501
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 1: something called NPWS, and nurses use this terminology all the time,

502
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,800
Speaker 1: and it's an abbreviation. We abbreviate a lot of things

503
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: in medicine. So that stands for needle puncture wound. So

504
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: if you're if you're jabbed with a needle, if it's fresh,

505
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: we look, and particularly with drug addicts that are injecting

506
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: into their arms, we look for np w's by milking

507
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: the arm. We start the very top by the shoulder

508
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 1: and run our hand down very tightly down the length

509
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: of the arm, and we look for little blood dots

510
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,319
Speaker 1: to appear. If there's a fresh np W, you're not

511
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: going to have shot at that here you're you're you're

512
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 1: not and even and even where we suspect these, most

513
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 1: of the time we'll do an incision into the nb

514
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: W to see how far it.

515
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 2: Ext Now, I remember Thomas Nogucci talking about, you know,

516
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: using that term the terminology to find the needle puncture

517
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 2: wound on John Belushi.

518
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did, and he probably if I remember correctly.

519
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: I wonder if he did it with Mari Lone Monroe

520
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 1: as well, because he was that was when he was young,

521
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: you know, and one of the things that people had

522
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: talked about. I still think she was probably killed with

523
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 1: the pository. But one thing you would look for also,

524
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: you can do this with the ankles to uh you know,

525
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: just this is the same principle, you know, because people

526
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: will inject in the ankles. Drug abusers will because you don't,

527
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: you know, it's sound like you're going to see them

528
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 1: if they're skin popping. I guess it'd be very hard

529
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: to get a vein up, you know. But anyway, I'm digressing.

530
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: It's just that's one of the things that we look for.

531
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: And all this stuff is compromised now because we're five

532
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: months down range, right and you've been subjected to summertime

533
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: in an aquatic environment, and it's very very humid, and yes,

534
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and Maryland get very very hot in summertime. Okay,

535
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 1: So all of this is going on with the body,

536
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: and the body is also bouncing off of rocks and

537
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: anything else that's in the water. So it's being it's

538
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: sustaining post mortem trauma. And so that's one that's one

539
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: of the things that's at issue, you know, in this case.

540
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 1: So you're heavily reliant upon eye witness testimony and if

541
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: anyone is willing to cop to this, and Dave, I think,

542
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: according to what you're saying, this individual did in fact

543
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 1: roll over on this case.

544
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 2: Studio thankfully, you know, I didn't think it would happen,

545
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 2: but it did. Investigators just did a great job they

546
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 2: were able to you know, mentioned earlier on who the

547
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 2: suspects are. Okay, the suspects were two of Matthew Wisman's cousins,

548
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 2: his first cousin, Alexander Wade Wistman eighteen years old, Jeremy

549
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: Wayne Absuer. Another cousin at twenty six, Stephen gattis not

550
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: related twenty eight. He seems to be the ringleader and

551
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: once police once they found his body, police meaning they

552
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 2: were able to sit down and start the interview process

553
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 2: and building a timeline. You know, where was Matthew They

554
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 2: were able to determine by interviews with the suspects. Jeremy

555
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 2: Absuer admits to certain details of what took place. During

556
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: questioning to what happened to Matthew, Alexander Wisman confirmed that

557
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 2: there was a plan to kill Matthew. The plan included

558
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 2: using fentanyl and body disposal. Once they got those commitments

559
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: from the two first cousins, they knew Gaddus. The investigators

560
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 2: knew Gaddis was the key. They knew that without him

561
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 2: none of this would have happened, and they ended up

562
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: Joe again. Go back to April third, Matthew Wistman has

563
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: given his last supper, beaten, be killed, tossed like nothing.

564
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: His body is He's reported missing in July, body found

565
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 2: in August. In October, they finally bring charges against all

566
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 2: three suspects with murder, kidnapping, witness intimidation, and some other

567
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 2: crimes that go along to it. And we've just now

568
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:54,680
Speaker 2: in the last days, gotten a guilty plea out of

569
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: Stephen Gaddis Joe. He pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit

570
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 2: third degree murder, aggravated assault, kidnapping, and intimidation of a witness.

571
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know you know you in just a

572
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 1: few minutes that we're talking about this young man's life.

573
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 1: This is not some total of his life. And I'm

574
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: talking about the victim. I don't care about the perpetrators. Yeah,

575
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: this is not the sum total of his life. Somewhere

576
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: along the way he brought joy. Somewhere along the way

577
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:34,919
Speaker 1: he brought happiness. Those are two different things. By the way,

578
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: right now, I'm hoping that he is at peace as

579
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: well as his mother. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this

580
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: is Bodybacks