WEBVTT - How Public Broadcasting Works 0:00:01.200 --> 0:00:04.640 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:13.840 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.680 There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerry, which means it 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:20.200 is time for stuff you should know about public broadcasting. 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:27.120 How are you feeling good full of beans today? That's 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:29.400 the last thing I wanted to hear. And you're stuck 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.000 in here with me for a couple of hours, buddy, dear, 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:37.640 that's the musical fruit. Yeah, that's what I hear. That's 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:39.480 what I've been here since I was six years old. 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.200 Is it musical fruit? I thought it was magical fruit. 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:51.519 Uh music, probably regional Huh, like soda and coke and 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:55.920 pop in all that musical magical, don't talk about it 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:57.520 at all, one of them. Actually I grew up. It 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:00.760 wasn't even musical. I just grew up with beans, beans, 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:05.560 good for your heart. Oh well, that that's pretty that's real. Yeah. 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:07.640 So that's the That's how I rolled in the a 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:14.280 t l um. So you're feeling uh, you're feeling pretty good. Yeah. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.119 I think it's a very wonderfully disrespectful way to open 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:19.800 up a show about one of our finest institutions. I 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.400 really feel on edge because you know that every single 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:27.080 MPR personality is going to hear this one. You think 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:30.280 every single one guy ros right now is sitting there 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:34.399 like these two idiots. Terry Gross already thinks for idiots. 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.600 She is my hero, buddy. I don't think that there's 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.040 ever been a finer radio program than Fresh Air. Yeah. 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.040 I mean, she's the best. She's a legend, she's awesome. 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:49.280 Uh have you ever heard an interview with her? Uh? No, there, 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.840 I recommend it. She's a pretty sharp tack. So I'm 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.400 sure they're pretty fun. In fact, you know what perfect 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:59.320 time to shout out our buddy. Jesse Thorne of Bull's 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.000 Eye with Jesse Thorn has a short run series called 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:10.280 The Turnaround where he interviewers legendary He interviews legendary interviewers. Okay, 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.959 Ira Glass, Harrol Morris. What I think Terry Gross is 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.160 in there? I'm not sure, you gotta be. I don't 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.320 think hers is out yet. I'm not gonna promise that 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.040 because I'm not positive. Okay, but I can hold my 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:28.000 breath all right. But it's a really cool show. Very Uh, 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:30.919 it's really interesting to hear because I think Jesse's a 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.200 great interviewer, and then to hear him interview the great 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.000 interviewers about interviewing, it makes your head just turn a 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:42.000 hundred navy degrees. It's really cool. Alright, Chuck. Yes, so 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:47.720 we're talking public broadcasting, which depending on how you Okay, 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.480 you're a big fan. Sure, so it probably doesn't sound 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.400 a dull to you talking about public broadcasting. But I've 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:57.119 shows people out there who just walked right past this one, 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:00.280 and hopefully some of them said, you know what, I'm 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.840 gonna give the dude's a chance. I'm gonna listen. Those 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:06.560 people will be richly rewarded by this episode, because it 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:10.919 turns out the public broadcasting, it's history, it's present, its 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:16.079 future hopefully all very interesting. Yeah, and if you are 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.680 not a fan of it, then, um, well you're in 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.120 the minority technically. Yeah, they've got some big numbers, bigger 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.240 than I realized. Yeah, more than half of the US 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:33.800 population tunes into public TV or radio or online. So 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.920 we're talking PBS and NPR generally, that's a hundred and 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:42.560 seventy million Americans, and um they it says here that 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:47.680 PBS gets has more viewers than our dearly beloved Discovery Channel, 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.400 even HDTV and A and E, which are all thought 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:55.720 of as well. They are very big networks, juggernauts. Yeah, 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.320 but I think people hear PBS you get a certain like. 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.920 I think some people think it's the treasure that it is. 0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:05.360 Some people might be a little bored by it without realizing. 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:07.880 Oh but wait a minute, I saw Monty Python and 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:10.920 Benny Hill on PBS. I'm so glad you when I 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:14.320 was a kid to think of Benny Hill or I 0:04:14.400 --> 0:04:16.599 sure loved Dowton Abbey and oh wait a minute, that 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.800 was PBS two our Antiques road foe. I mean some 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.359 Mr Rogers, some some of the more legendary shows in 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.599 American history. Right, And it's not like all things considered 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:30.039 in Morning Edition and Fresh Air and wait, wait, don't 0:04:30.040 --> 0:04:33.760 tell me, are like are any slouches at all? You know? 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.200 Like this? This are like if you step back and 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:40.600 put the rosters of MPR and PBS together, it bakes 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:47.120 up a pretty big swath of the American fabric. Totally agreed. Yeah, well, 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:49.400 thank you. I agree with myself on that one as well. 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:56.320 So I didn't realize how new they were, though, did you. Yeah? 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:59.080 I thought I think I thought it was seventies. Oh well, 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:03.240 you were dead on. It started in Actually it goes 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.279 back a little further than that to the public Um 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.880 Public Broadcasting Act, and actually we should go back even 0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:12.400 slightly further than that to set this whole thing up. Right, 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:19.480 So radio comes up, it starts to become a mass medium, right, 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:25.440 and the UK and Europe, in America at the time, 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.359 we're basically faced with this thing, like, we've got this 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.080 huge new technology. Up to this point, it's been newspapers 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:34.680 and dudes on horseback running through towns. That's how we 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.440 got the word out. Now everybody's starting to get radio. 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:41.719 So we've got this this really powerful thing. What do 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:44.200 we do with it? And over in Europe and the UK, 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:46.960 they said, this is a public good and we need 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.840 to treat it as such. We need to we need 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:51.760 to take it seriously. We need to make sure that 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.560 public affairs programming gets onto the air and they don't 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.719 have to worry about competing for ad dollars or anything 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:01.080 like that. We're gonna fund it pub lookally, in the 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:04.560 US we released two acts. There was the Radio Act 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:08.520 of and the Communications Act of four and both of 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:13.719 them set up the current competitive capitalist market that we 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.160 have for broadcasting in the country, right, and it worked, 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.240 there's from what I've seen. One of the reasons why 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.200 it worked was because there was also this kind of 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:28.000 tacit understanding among journalists who were part of these broadcast 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:32.239 networks that they had a responsibility to inform the public. 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:35.119 And they were also only three of them at the time. Sure, 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:41.280 but um over time, broadcasting in the United States went 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:44.440 more and more and more toward entertainment because that could 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.800 get more people, and that's that meant you could get 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:51.360 more advertising money. So we got further and further away 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:55.279 from public affairs programming and news and got more and 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:59.280 more into entertainment. And by the fifties it became evident 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.000 to some people that we needed something in addition to 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:07.040 or to replace, the commercial model that we had in 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.800 the US. Yeah, and this was even pre cable TV, 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.080 like these are just the net the big three pre Fox, 0:07:14.160 --> 0:07:19.320 even this is ABC, CBS and NBC. Uh starting to 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:23.000 show things like the Honeymooners and realizing people who are 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.640 way more into the Honeymooners than Walter Cronkite, Well maybe 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.000 not they were, people were into the news back then. Yeah, 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.440 But even if even if you do have people who 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.600 are into the news. There are some certain things that 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.240 have to do with the commercial model when put up 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:42.920 against the public broadcasting model, that inherently make public broadcasting 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.520 more appealing if you're trying to get public affairs programming across. 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.560 And one of the big ones, Chuck, is if you're 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:54.240 a program director for NBC and it's prime time, when 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.360 you know everybody's home, are you going to put on 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.800 one of your big money makers like the Honeymooners that 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.160 can charge top dollar from advertisers for or you're gonna 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:07.679 put on the McNeil lair News Report where you're where 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:10.160 you're not gonna get as many people. But there's some 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.720 really in depth investigative journal journalism because they don't have 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:17.760 to worry about attracting advertisers ideally, um they can just 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.600 focus on the journalism. Which one are you gonna do? Well, 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:22.840 you're gonna do both, but it's a matter of when 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.880 you do both, you know, right, So are you gonna 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:29.480 do one like at five thirty? Right? Are you gonna 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:31.640 do a prime time and at five thirty not everybody's 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.520 home from work yet, So overall you have a less 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:38.800 informed citizenry just from when you choose to put news on. 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:43.200 I haven't watched. I don't watch the news any more 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.240 at all, not even cable news. But I can't remember 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.360 the last time I watched like local news or a 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.600 news program on a network. I don't even know. I 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.199 guess when I lived in l A. I didn't have cable. 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.600 I would watch the news sometimes because I don't think 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.160 I had the Internet yet. I had like an antenna. 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.640 My my news Chunky Dumb has come and gone, like 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:10.199 over time, waxed and wayne. It feels pretty gone this time. Yeah, 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:16.000 just getting used up by cable news used Yeah, just 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:18.160 being done with. It's pretty freeing, isn't it. Yeah, even 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:19.560 networks I like, you know, I just I don't want 0:09:19.600 --> 0:09:22.319 to hear it anymore. Um And the way people in 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:24.760 just news these days is just so different, you know. Yeah. 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.000 I get most of my news honestly from Twitter. Yeah, 0:09:27.120 --> 0:09:30.160 social media, that's how it's done these days. But I 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.000 was going back to l A. I was. I used 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.839 to sit around and watch local news in l A. 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:38.160 Was pretty great. I have to admit, there's a lot 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.319 of Yeah, it was just weird and the personalities were 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.680 kind of interesting. But yeah, I mean I think it 0:09:43.760 --> 0:09:47.280 was like started at like four thirty and ran all 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.560 the way up to whatever. The big nightly news programs were, 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:57.600 what like seven yeah, yeah, hours and hours of weird 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.079 Southland news. Yeah, was told to you by a man 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:05.280 wearing a cape. Maybe yeah, it was that weird yeah, 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.599 or I don't know, it was strange. But then I 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:09.360 kind of missed the old Atlanta News because I grew 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:13.400 up watching that's pretty stayed with giant helmet hair. That's 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.959 a land in local news. Yeah, And I think most 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.200 cities have these stalwarts that have been around forever. You 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.560 know Monica Kaufman, Yeah, who is married now she's not 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:26.079 even Monica Kaufman anymore? What is what's her name? Now? 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:28.599 I don't know because I want the news in twenty years, 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.040 but I think someone told me, you know, she has 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:33.800 a married name. Now, I was like, what, huh, that's 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.200 Monica Kaufman or that you know, you would see one 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:37.640 of them. I've worked at the Laser Show and I 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.719 would see like Ken Burns, the weather man at the 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:44.080 Laser Show, and it's like a legit celebrity signing. Oh yeah, 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:46.760 he gives you like the wink, and everyone's crowding around 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.200 getting his autographs. It's the anchorman thing, you know. It's 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:55.160 like the salad days, Yeah, which are now gone because 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:57.280 of cable news in the Internet. Well, yeah, the salad 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:01.160 days for them. Sure, Now it's our salad days. It's time. Yeah, 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.760 that's true too, And that applies not just to local news. 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:08.240 It applies to news in general, um, including MPR and 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:13.000 including PBS that there's this huge shift. I don't know 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.360 if you've heard this, but there's a big shift to 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.880 the Internet now. That's true. People are starting to consume, 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.840 like you said, news in different ways, and public broadcasting 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:24.880 is having to keep up just as much as anybody. 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.440 But it's occupies this weird niche that we'll get into. 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.000 But you want to take a break first and regroup. Yeah, 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.440 we'll come back here and talk about Linda Johnson. I 0:11:34.480 --> 0:12:04.760 can't wait. Alright, Chuck d J. Yes, lb J. Did 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:08.720 you know that he owns some I think TV stations 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.120 back in Texas when he was a senator. I don't 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:12.640 think I knew that he was, So he was real 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:16.320 in favor of public broadcasting. Well that kind of makes sense. Yeah, 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:21.400 so in nineteen sixty seven, Uh, well, I mean in 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:25.240 nineteen sixty seven, he signed the Public Broadcasting Act into law. 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:28.600 But previous to this UH, there was something called the 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:37.240 n ET UH National Entertainment Times WACA WACA. What was it, 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.840 I'm sure it was National Education Television, Yes, National Education Television. 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.360 They were the precursor to UH what would eventually become 0:12:45.600 --> 0:12:50.079 CPB Corporation for Public Broadcasting. But at the time n 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:53.280 e T would UH. They would run things that could 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:56.560 be critical of the government and its foreign policy. And 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.160 some say, I don't think it was entirely due to that, 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:01.560 but some say that that did play a part, and 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:08.000 the government eventually funding via the Public Broadcasting Act public television, 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.719 so maybe they could get a little bit more favorable coverage. 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.920 It's pretty North Korean and mentality if you think about it, 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.680 you know, and if you step back and look at it, 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:21.840 the idea of public broadcasting, government funded public broadcasting should 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:26.760 terrify everybody. But the way that it's always been right, right, 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:29.079 But the way that it's always been pitched and and 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:33.280 um and sold is no, it's taxpayer funded, so it 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:35.880 belongs to the people, and that the government. It's supposed 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:38.600 to be insulated. It's a different estate. It's the fourth estate. 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.320 It's not the government, it's its own thing. It's supposed 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:44.360 to be kept separate. So I was surprised to see that, 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.520 but it makes total sense, the idea, oh yeah, we'll 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.439 bring you into the fold, will fund you, but you 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.280 owe us big time. Yeah. I mean I wonder what 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.840 kind of like real talks were had over that, if any, 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.720 or if it was just sort of like understood, like, hey, 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:00.480 here's who's right in your checks now. Well, I think 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:04.800 it was also a convergence of different interests, right, So 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.320 the government wanting to get rid of criticism or clamped 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:12.560 down on criticism coincided with people who wanted more public 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:16.400 affairs broadcasting, and then you had some endowments that were 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.080 well healed, well moneyed, and they all kind of came 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.920 together to create this Corporation for Public Broadcasting that came 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:26.280 out of the Public Broadcasting Act. Yeah. So this, uh, 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.320 like you said, you set it up nicely with radio, 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:34.400 but um radio started to decline with the advent of television, 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.440 and so in order, I mean, one of the main 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:39.320 reasons they signed the Public Broadcasting Out was trying to 0:14:39.360 --> 0:14:43.200 get the this non commercial radio going in a legit way. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:47.640 So they signed Johnson signs the act. The federal government 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:52.640 creates uh CPB, like we mentioned, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:58.360 and they are not They don't produce TV. They basically 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:04.120 dole out money. Uh. They're the they're the gatekeepers. Yeah, 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.360 in here yourself a nice little radio transmitter with this. 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:11.720 But now that's what they do. Yeah, they do a 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.760 lot of money. They cover licensing fees, are copyright fees, 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:19.600 they cover a lot of the technical infrastructure, um. And 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:24.120 they give a lot of money directly to smaller market 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:29.000 MPR or PBS stations. Yeah, I mean they created the 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.520 cb uh I say that the whole time CPB created 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:37.040 uh MPR in nineteen seventy and before that PBS and 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.840 sixty nine. They basically said, we need a TV wing 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.720 and a radio wing going to create these and we're 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:50.040 gonna doll out money uh this year actually and then 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.560 projected or at least asked for for twenty nineteen. They 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.440 have requested the same amount of money. But you don't 0:15:57.480 --> 0:15:59.840 even see that very often where they're not asking for 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.840 a raise or whatever or increased funding of four hundred 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:07.880 and forty five million dollars, which amounts to point zero 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:13.160 one zero one of the federal budget. Yeah, and there's 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.200 a lot of debate that will get into when we 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:19.040 talk about some of the controversies and criticisms of public broadcasting, 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.240 and believe me, we're talking about those. But UM, a 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:25.280 lot of people say, that's pretty disingenuous to point out 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.440 what a minuscule amount of the budget that is, because 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.440 it's still four d forty five million dollars and still 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:35.880 half a billion dollars. And then on the other side, 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.120 which we'll hear a little bit more about two Um, 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:41.800 a lot of people who are on the public broadcasting 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:45.120 side say, just forget, just get rid of that, just 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:47.640 we don't need that money. Let's go without. If there's 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:51.040 so many strings attached to that four five million dollars, 0:16:51.240 --> 0:16:54.080 it makes up such a small portion of say like 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:58.200 MPR itself operating budget, that we just don't even need. 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.280 It's not even worth the trouble. Big debate, which is 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:05.119 weird because some some people on the UM public radio 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:08.920 side and some are critics of public or public broadcasting, 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:15.640 UM government funding for public broadcasting. Yeah, it's a little weird. 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.800 I mean, trust me, I've I've found myself reading some 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:21.760 of this thinking maybe you should just be free from 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:26.760 those shackles, because sometimes the public will step up and 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.040 you might get more funding. Yeah, you know, when something 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:35.720 is threatened, right, yeah, yeah, at least first the question 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.680 is whether that could be sustained for the long term, 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.800 you know. Yeah, well, we'll get into all that you mentioned. 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.480 Uh MPR they actually get UM less than one percent 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:50.680 of that for their operating budget. So the million, it's 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:53.360 not like they say, all right, MPR you get two 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.760 d and twenty something million, and PBS you get the rest. 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.000 Uh MPR gets less than one percent, And they actually 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:05.840 have a mandate CPB of their spending UM has to 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:10.560 be on local public media station's content development, community services, 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:15.400 and then what they they call other related needs toilet paper, 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.879 I guess, and stuff like that keep the A C on. 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.640 So chuck, here's how here's how the whole thing works. 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:27.080 You're ready, yep, You and I pay taxes, goes. Some 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:30.720 of it goes to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting in 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.080 the form of about four million dollars a year. Yeah, 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:38.000 and in the form of about like four dollars per textpayer. 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.280 I saw, I saw between saw one one group found 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:44.280 a dollar thirty five a person and for every person. 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.479 I don't think for every tax paying person. Oh I see, okay, well, 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.640 then for every tax paying person it's about four bucks um. 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:55.320 So taxas go to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:59.760 then um, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting spends like that 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.399 on the small local stations, right okay, Well, and you 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.840 know the other stuff of content development okay. And then 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:13.600 you've got the small local stations subscribing to MPR and 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:19.680 PBS who have shows that they create, produce mprs very 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:22.879 famously all things considered in Morning edition right started in 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.840 nineteen seventy one and the Morning Edition in nineteen seventy 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:29.639 nine running. So all that money goes taxes Corporation to 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:33.040 Public Broadcasting, smaller affiliates, and then it goes back up. 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.199 So it goes down from the top to the smaller 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:39.920 affiliates and then back up to MPR and PBS, ok 0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.720 for the for the programs that they're developing. So rather 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:47.879 than the taxes going directly to MPR or to PBS, 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:52.120 it goes to the Corporation Republic Broadcasting. But even still, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.199 rather than going directly to MPR PBS, it goes to 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.600 the smaller affiliates who then give it to MPR and PPS. 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.080 And by give it you mean they licensing fees to 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.160 play those shows on their right exactly. Yeah, like they 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:06.920 I think they subscribe and they paid like a yearly 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.440 fee to carry that show. Yeah. And when it first 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:14.480 started NPR, and we'll cover NPR first largely and then 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:19.040 get into PBS. But is when MPR started and at 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.240 the time there are only ninety member stations and now 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:25.400 they are close to a thousand member stations all over 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:31.000 the country licensing these legendary shows. Right. And then for 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:34.679 the smaller local affiliates, if you have all things considered on, 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:40.000 you're going to attract a percentage of your town's listeners. 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.640 The more listeners you have for that, the more pledges 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:47.480 you'll get during your pledge drive, right. And then you also, 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:51.760 the more listeners you have, the more UM contributions you 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:55.159 can get through underwriting too. Yeah, but also you'll have 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:57.600 to pay more money to license these shows too write 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.200 the more listeners you have, Yeah, Like, Um, well, I 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.879 guess we should go over where they get their funding largely, 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.639 and then how they charged the member stations. Uh and 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:15.160 um says was from fees and dues from member stations, 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:21.359 the close corporate sponsorship which has risen over the years. 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:23.680 I think I think that was kind of a controversial 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:25.000 thing for a while, whether or not they wanted to 0:21:25.000 --> 0:21:28.240 take on any of that. I think, is it like 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:31.080 how much they're beholden to that, Yeah, that makes sense, 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:38.680 grants and contributions and then um, like you mentioned foundations, endowments, 0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.359 colleges and universities, stuff like that will pitch in some 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:48.159 dough what's the big one that it's always the Katherine T. 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:53.159 John d and Katherine Tee MacArthur found exactly. It's like 0:21:53.240 --> 0:21:55.040 drilled into your head after all these years. And the 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:59.159 Chubb group for PBS, oh yeah, and members like you, 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:05.960 um Morning Edition and all things considered, they are UM 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:09.120 stations are charged based on the volume of their listeners 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.040 plus a multiplier, and then things like fresh air apparently 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:17.360 are priced in proportion to that station's revenue, So smaller 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:19.760 stations don't have to pay as much as bigger stations, 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:23.520 which is great because again the whole idea between behind 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:27.199 public broadcasting is that you have stuff that's supposed to be, 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:31.440 like you said, not beholden to advertisers. So if company 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:36.600 X is, you know, screwing over this town's water supply then, 0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:40.919 but they advertise with all of the broadcast networks that 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:45.680 are commercially driven, those those networks. News might not mention it, 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:51.159 but public public broadcasting will probably do that story and 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.600 we'll let everybody know. Yeah, that's the idea. So it's 0:22:54.600 --> 0:22:59.280 important for everybody to have public broadcasting. And that's why 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:07.080 the the smaller ones are supported by the larger ones. Exactly. Yeah, um, PBS. 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.880 On the other side, we mentioned Mr Rogers, Nova Man 0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:15.800 Growing Up. That was a good one. Wasn't Cosmos on PBS? 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:21.080 I think so? I think it was. Originally it seems 0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:26.080 like a very PBSC show. Sure, that turtleneck masterpiece theater. 0:23:26.200 --> 0:23:30.040 Of course, this old house, the frugal gourmet. Who was that? 0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:34.000 Was that? Julia Child or Jack papan Oh? Immediately thought 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:37.720 Julia Child. But now you have me wondering. We'll find out, Okay, 0:23:37.760 --> 0:23:40.080 I'll get to the bottom of this child. You mentioned 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:44.200 McNeil Lair Report Evening at the Pops Uh Sesame Street. 0:23:44.240 --> 0:23:47.760 Probably the most legendary not probably definitely the most legendary 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:51.080 kids show of all time, and PBS gets about two 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:58.520 hundred million viewers annually, representing eight t two of US 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:04.320 television households. So they're they're big, you know, they're not 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:08.240 like I mean, I know you think of PBS is 0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:11.760 like the sweet little like publicly funded thing. But that's 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:15.760 that's big stuff. Like if they took in ads, they 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:19.399 probably wouldn't have to sweat it at all. No, you know, 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:22.680 but that's a double edged sword because then they lose 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:26.160 their their public value if they start taking an ad allegedly, 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:28.800 which again is why some people haven't really stuck in 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:32.200 their craw that they have underwriting at all. Yeah, it's 0:24:32.280 --> 0:24:34.400 Jeff Smith. By the way, I never heard of him. 0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:38.720 Frugal Gourmet. Yeah, well not in the seventies, it wasn't. Yeah, 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.160 it said. He released a book in nineteen eighty four 0:24:41.200 --> 0:24:45.200 called The Frugal Gourmet. He's the only person associated with it, 0:24:46.160 --> 0:24:49.480 Jeff Smith. It sounds like an alias to me. It 0:24:49.600 --> 0:24:54.359 really doesn't. Maybe it's Jacques Popin is French for Jeff Smith. Yeah, 0:24:54.359 --> 0:25:01.160 it says Jeff Smith. Four Jeff the chef. Chef Jeff, 0:25:01.240 --> 0:25:03.919 he was the Frugal Gore Mate. He was, according to 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:09.680 the Seattle Post Intelligencer, TV's original celebrity chefs he wasn't 0:25:09.720 --> 0:25:12.640 that big of a celebrity apparently about that so, um, 0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:15.760 PBS has three hundred and fifty member stations as of now, 0:25:16.560 --> 0:25:20.320 and um they are in all fifty states plus Guam, 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:24.119