1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerry, which means it 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: is time for stuff you should know about public broadcasting. 5 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: How are you feeling good full of beans today? That's 6 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: the last thing I wanted to hear. And you're stuck 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: in here with me for a couple of hours, buddy, dear, 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: that's the musical fruit. Yeah, that's what I hear. That's 9 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: what I've been here since I was six years old. 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: Is it musical fruit? I thought it was magical fruit. 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 1: Uh music, probably regional Huh, like soda and coke and 12 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: pop in all that musical magical, don't talk about it 13 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: at all, one of them. Actually I grew up. It 14 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: wasn't even musical. I just grew up with beans, beans, 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: good for your heart. Oh well, that that's pretty that's real. Yeah. 16 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: So that's the That's how I rolled in the a 17 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: t l um. So you're feeling uh, you're feeling pretty good. Yeah. 18 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,119 Speaker 1: I think it's a very wonderfully disrespectful way to open 19 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: up a show about one of our finest institutions. I 20 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,400 Speaker 1: really feel on edge because you know that every single 21 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: MPR personality is going to hear this one. You think 22 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: every single one guy ros right now is sitting there 23 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: like these two idiots. Terry Gross already thinks for idiots. 24 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: She is my hero, buddy. I don't think that there's 25 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: ever been a finer radio program than Fresh Air. Yeah. 26 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 1: I mean, she's the best. She's a legend, she's awesome. 27 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: Uh have you ever heard an interview with her? Uh? No, there, 28 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: I recommend it. She's a pretty sharp tack. So I'm 29 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: sure they're pretty fun. In fact, you know what perfect 30 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: time to shout out our buddy. Jesse Thorne of Bull's 31 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: Eye with Jesse Thorn has a short run series called 32 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: The Turnaround where he interviewers legendary He interviews legendary interviewers. Okay, 33 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,959 Speaker 1: Ira Glass, Harrol Morris. What I think Terry Gross is 34 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: in there? I'm not sure, you gotta be. I don't 35 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: think hers is out yet. I'm not gonna promise that 36 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: because I'm not positive. Okay, but I can hold my 37 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: breath all right. But it's a really cool show. Very Uh, 38 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to hear because I think Jesse's a 39 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: great interviewer, and then to hear him interview the great 40 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: interviewers about interviewing, it makes your head just turn a 41 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: hundred navy degrees. It's really cool. Alright, Chuck. Yes, so 42 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: we're talking public broadcasting, which depending on how you Okay, 43 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: you're a big fan. Sure, so it probably doesn't sound 44 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: a dull to you talking about public broadcasting. But I've 45 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,119 Speaker 1: shows people out there who just walked right past this one, 46 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: and hopefully some of them said, you know what, I'm 47 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: gonna give the dude's a chance. I'm gonna listen. Those 48 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: people will be richly rewarded by this episode, because it 49 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 1: turns out the public broadcasting, it's history, it's present, its 50 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: future hopefully all very interesting. Yeah, and if you are 51 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: not a fan of it, then, um, well you're in 52 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 1: the minority technically. Yeah, they've got some big numbers, bigger 53 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 1: than I realized. Yeah, more than half of the US 54 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: population tunes into public TV or radio or online. So 55 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: we're talking PBS and NPR generally, that's a hundred and 56 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: seventy million Americans, and um they it says here that 57 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: PBS gets has more viewers than our dearly beloved Discovery Channel, 58 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: even HDTV and A and E, which are all thought 59 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: of as well. They are very big networks, juggernauts. Yeah, 60 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: but I think people hear PBS you get a certain like. 61 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: I think some people think it's the treasure that it is. 62 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: Some people might be a little bored by it without realizing. 63 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: Oh but wait a minute, I saw Monty Python and 64 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: Benny Hill on PBS. I'm so glad you when I 65 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: was a kid to think of Benny Hill or I 66 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: sure loved Dowton Abbey and oh wait a minute, that 67 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 1: was PBS two our Antiques road foe. I mean some 68 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,359 Speaker 1: Mr Rogers, some some of the more legendary shows in 69 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,599 Speaker 1: American history. Right, And it's not like all things considered 70 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: in Morning Edition and Fresh Air and wait, wait, don't 71 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: tell me, are like are any slouches at all? You know? 72 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 1: Like this? This are like if you step back and 73 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: put the rosters of MPR and PBS together, it bakes 74 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: up a pretty big swath of the American fabric. Totally agreed. Yeah, well, 75 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: thank you. I agree with myself on that one as well. 76 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: So I didn't realize how new they were, though, did you. Yeah? 77 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: I thought I think I thought it was seventies. Oh well, 78 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: you were dead on. It started in Actually it goes 79 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,279 Speaker 1: back a little further than that to the public Um 80 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,880 Speaker 1: Public Broadcasting Act, and actually we should go back even 81 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 1: slightly further than that to set this whole thing up. Right, 82 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: So radio comes up, it starts to become a mass medium, right, 83 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: and the UK and Europe, in America at the time, 84 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 1: we're basically faced with this thing, like, we've got this 85 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: huge new technology. Up to this point, it's been newspapers 86 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: and dudes on horseback running through towns. That's how we 87 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: got the word out. Now everybody's starting to get radio. 88 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: So we've got this this really powerful thing. What do 89 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: we do with it? And over in Europe and the UK, 90 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: they said, this is a public good and we need 91 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: to treat it as such. We need to we need 92 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: to take it seriously. We need to make sure that 93 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: public affairs programming gets onto the air and they don't 94 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: have to worry about competing for ad dollars or anything 95 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: like that. We're gonna fund it pub lookally, in the 96 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: US we released two acts. There was the Radio Act 97 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: of and the Communications Act of four and both of 98 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: them set up the current competitive capitalist market that we 99 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,160 Speaker 1: have for broadcasting in the country, right, and it worked, 100 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: there's from what I've seen. One of the reasons why 101 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: it worked was because there was also this kind of 102 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: tacit understanding among journalists who were part of these broadcast 103 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:32,239 Speaker 1: networks that they had a responsibility to inform the public. 104 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,119 Speaker 1: And they were also only three of them at the time. Sure, 105 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: but um over time, broadcasting in the United States went 106 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: more and more and more toward entertainment because that could 107 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,800 Speaker 1: get more people, and that's that meant you could get 108 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: more advertising money. So we got further and further away 109 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: from public affairs programming and news and got more and 110 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: more into entertainment. And by the fifties it became evident 111 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: to some people that we needed something in addition to 112 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: or to replace, the commercial model that we had in 113 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: the US. Yeah, and this was even pre cable TV, 114 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: like these are just the net the big three pre Fox, 115 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: even this is ABC, CBS and NBC. Uh starting to 116 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: show things like the Honeymooners and realizing people who are 117 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: way more into the Honeymooners than Walter Cronkite, Well maybe 118 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: not they were, people were into the news back then. Yeah, 119 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: But even if even if you do have people who 120 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: are into the news. There are some certain things that 121 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: have to do with the commercial model when put up 122 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: against the public broadcasting model, that inherently make public broadcasting 123 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: more appealing if you're trying to get public affairs programming across. 124 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: And one of the big ones, Chuck, is if you're 125 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: a program director for NBC and it's prime time, when 126 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: you know everybody's home, are you going to put on 127 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: one of your big money makers like the Honeymooners that 128 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: can charge top dollar from advertisers for or you're gonna 129 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,679 Speaker 1: put on the McNeil lair News Report where you're where 130 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: you're not gonna get as many people. But there's some 131 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: really in depth investigative journal journalism because they don't have 132 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: to worry about attracting advertisers ideally, um they can just 133 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: focus on the journalism. Which one are you gonna do? Well, 134 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna do both, but it's a matter of when 135 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: you do both, you know, right, So are you gonna 136 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: do one like at five thirty? Right? Are you gonna 137 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: do a prime time and at five thirty not everybody's 138 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: home from work yet, So overall you have a less 139 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: informed citizenry just from when you choose to put news on. 140 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: I haven't watched. I don't watch the news any more 141 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: at all, not even cable news. But I can't remember 142 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: the last time I watched like local news or a 143 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: news program on a network. I don't even know. I 144 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: guess when I lived in l A. I didn't have cable. 145 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: I would watch the news sometimes because I don't think 146 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: I had the Internet yet. I had like an antenna. 147 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: My my news Chunky Dumb has come and gone, like 148 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: over time, waxed and wayne. It feels pretty gone this time. Yeah, 149 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: just getting used up by cable news used Yeah, just 150 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: being done with. It's pretty freeing, isn't it. Yeah, even 151 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:19,560 Speaker 1: networks I like, you know, I just I don't want 152 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,319 Speaker 1: to hear it anymore. Um And the way people in 153 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: just news these days is just so different, you know. Yeah. 154 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: I get most of my news honestly from Twitter. Yeah, 155 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: social media, that's how it's done these days. But I 156 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: was going back to l A. I was. I used 157 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: to sit around and watch local news in l A. 158 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: Was pretty great. I have to admit, there's a lot 159 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,319 Speaker 1: of Yeah, it was just weird and the personalities were 160 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 1: kind of interesting. But yeah, I mean I think it 161 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: was like started at like four thirty and ran all 162 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: the way up to whatever. The big nightly news programs were, 163 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: what like seven yeah, yeah, hours and hours of weird 164 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,079 Speaker 1: Southland news. Yeah, was told to you by a man 165 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: wearing a cape. Maybe yeah, it was that weird yeah, 166 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:07,599 Speaker 1: or I don't know, it was strange. But then I 167 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: kind of missed the old Atlanta News because I grew 168 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: up watching that's pretty stayed with giant helmet hair. That's 169 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: a land in local news. Yeah, And I think most 170 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 1: cities have these stalwarts that have been around forever. You 171 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: know Monica Kaufman, Yeah, who is married now she's not 172 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 1: even Monica Kaufman anymore? What is what's her name? Now? 173 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,599 Speaker 1: I don't know because I want the news in twenty years, 174 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: but I think someone told me, you know, she has 175 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: a married name. Now, I was like, what, huh, that's 176 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: Monica Kaufman or that you know, you would see one 177 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: of them. I've worked at the Laser Show and I 178 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,719 Speaker 1: would see like Ken Burns, the weather man at the 179 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: Laser Show, and it's like a legit celebrity signing. Oh yeah, 180 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: he gives you like the wink, and everyone's crowding around 181 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: getting his autographs. It's the anchorman thing, you know. It's 182 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: like the salad days, Yeah, which are now gone because 183 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: of cable news in the Internet. Well, yeah, the salad 184 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: days for them. Sure, Now it's our salad days. It's time. Yeah, 185 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: that's true too, And that applies not just to local news. 186 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: It applies to news in general, um, including MPR and 187 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: including PBS that there's this huge shift. I don't know 188 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 1: if you've heard this, but there's a big shift to 189 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: the Internet now. That's true. People are starting to consume, 190 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: like you said, news in different ways, and public broadcasting 191 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: is having to keep up just as much as anybody. 192 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: But it's occupies this weird niche that we'll get into. 193 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: But you want to take a break first and regroup. Yeah, 194 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: we'll come back here and talk about Linda Johnson. I 195 00:11:34,480 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 1: can't wait. Alright, Chuck d J. Yes, lb J. Did 196 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: you know that he owns some I think TV stations 197 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: back in Texas when he was a senator. I don't 198 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: think I knew that he was, So he was real 199 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,320 Speaker 1: in favor of public broadcasting. Well that kind of makes sense. Yeah, 200 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: so in nineteen sixty seven, Uh, well, I mean in 201 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven, he signed the Public Broadcasting Act into law. 202 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: But previous to this UH, there was something called the 203 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 1: n ET UH National Entertainment Times WACA WACA. What was it, 204 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure it was National Education Television, Yes, National Education Television. 205 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: They were the precursor to UH what would eventually become 206 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: CPB Corporation for Public Broadcasting. But at the time n 207 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 1: e T would UH. They would run things that could 208 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: be critical of the government and its foreign policy. And 209 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: some say, I don't think it was entirely due to that, 210 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: but some say that that did play a part, and 211 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: the government eventually funding via the Public Broadcasting Act public television, 212 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,719 Speaker 1: so maybe they could get a little bit more favorable coverage. 213 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: It's pretty North Korean and mentality if you think about it, 214 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: you know, and if you step back and look at it, 215 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: the idea of public broadcasting, government funded public broadcasting should 216 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 1: terrify everybody. But the way that it's always been right, right, 217 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: But the way that it's always been pitched and and 218 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: um and sold is no, it's taxpayer funded, so it 219 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: belongs to the people, and that the government. It's supposed 220 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: to be insulated. It's a different estate. It's the fourth estate. 221 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: It's not the government, it's its own thing. It's supposed 222 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: to be kept separate. So I was surprised to see that, 223 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 1: but it makes total sense, the idea, oh yeah, we'll 224 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: bring you into the fold, will fund you, but you 225 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: owe us big time. Yeah. I mean I wonder what 226 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 1: kind of like real talks were had over that, if any, 227 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: or if it was just sort of like understood, like, hey, 228 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: here's who's right in your checks now. Well, I think 229 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: it was also a convergence of different interests, right, So 230 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: the government wanting to get rid of criticism or clamped 231 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 1: down on criticism coincided with people who wanted more public 232 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,400 Speaker 1: affairs broadcasting, and then you had some endowments that were 233 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: well healed, well moneyed, and they all kind of came 234 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: together to create this Corporation for Public Broadcasting that came 235 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: out of the Public Broadcasting Act. Yeah. So this, uh, 236 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 1: like you said, you set it up nicely with radio, 237 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: but um radio started to decline with the advent of television, 238 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: and so in order, I mean, one of the main 239 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: reasons they signed the Public Broadcasting Out was trying to 240 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: get the this non commercial radio going in a legit way. 241 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: So they signed Johnson signs the act. The federal government 242 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: creates uh CPB, like we mentioned, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, 243 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: and they are not They don't produce TV. They basically 244 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: dole out money. Uh. They're the they're the gatekeepers. Yeah, 245 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: in here yourself a nice little radio transmitter with this. 246 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 1: But now that's what they do. Yeah, they do a 247 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: lot of money. They cover licensing fees, are copyright fees, 248 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: they cover a lot of the technical infrastructure, um. And 249 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: they give a lot of money directly to smaller market 250 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: MPR or PBS stations. Yeah, I mean they created the 251 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: cb uh I say that the whole time CPB created 252 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: uh MPR in nineteen seventy and before that PBS and 253 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: sixty nine. They basically said, we need a TV wing 254 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: and a radio wing going to create these and we're 255 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:50,040 Speaker 1: gonna doll out money uh this year actually and then 256 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: projected or at least asked for for twenty nineteen. They 257 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: have requested the same amount of money. But you don't 258 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: even see that very often where they're not asking for 259 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: a raise or whatever or increased funding of four hundred 260 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 1: and forty five million dollars, which amounts to point zero 261 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: one zero one of the federal budget. Yeah, and there's 262 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: a lot of debate that will get into when we 263 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: talk about some of the controversies and criticisms of public broadcasting, 264 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: and believe me, we're talking about those. But UM, a 265 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: lot of people say, that's pretty disingenuous to point out 266 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: what a minuscule amount of the budget that is, because 267 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: it's still four d forty five million dollars and still 268 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: half a billion dollars. And then on the other side, 269 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: which we'll hear a little bit more about two Um, 270 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are on the public broadcasting 271 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: side say, just forget, just get rid of that, just 272 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: we don't need that money. Let's go without. If there's 273 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: so many strings attached to that four five million dollars, 274 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,080 Speaker 1: it makes up such a small portion of say like 275 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: MPR itself operating budget, that we just don't even need. 276 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: It's not even worth the trouble. Big debate, which is 277 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: weird because some some people on the UM public radio 278 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 1: side and some are critics of public or public broadcasting, 279 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 1: UM government funding for public broadcasting. Yeah, it's a little weird. 280 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: I mean, trust me, I've I've found myself reading some 281 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: of this thinking maybe you should just be free from 282 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: those shackles, because sometimes the public will step up and 283 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: you might get more funding. Yeah, you know, when something 284 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: is threatened, right, yeah, yeah, at least first the question 285 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: is whether that could be sustained for the long term, 286 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, well, we'll get into all that you mentioned. 287 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 1: Uh MPR they actually get UM less than one percent 288 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: of that for their operating budget. So the million, it's 289 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: not like they say, all right, MPR you get two 290 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: d and twenty something million, and PBS you get the rest. 291 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: Uh MPR gets less than one percent, And they actually 292 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: have a mandate CPB of their spending UM has to 293 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: be on local public media station's content development, community services, 294 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,400 Speaker 1: and then what they they call other related needs toilet paper, 295 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: I guess, and stuff like that keep the A C on. 296 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: So chuck, here's how here's how the whole thing works. 297 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: You're ready, yep, You and I pay taxes, goes. Some 298 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 1: of it goes to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting in 299 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 1: the form of about four million dollars a year. Yeah, 300 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: and in the form of about like four dollars per textpayer. 301 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: I saw, I saw between saw one one group found 302 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: a dollar thirty five a person and for every person. 303 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,479 Speaker 1: I don't think for every tax paying person. Oh I see, okay, well, 304 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: then for every tax paying person it's about four bucks um. 305 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: So taxas go to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and 306 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: then um, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting spends like that 307 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,399 Speaker 1: on the small local stations, right okay, Well, and you 308 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: know the other stuff of content development okay. And then 309 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: you've got the small local stations subscribing to MPR and 310 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 1: PBS who have shows that they create, produce mprs very 311 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: famously all things considered in Morning edition right started in 312 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one and the Morning Edition in nineteen seventy 313 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: nine running. So all that money goes taxes Corporation to 314 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: Public Broadcasting, smaller affiliates, and then it goes back up. 315 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 1: So it goes down from the top to the smaller 316 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: affiliates and then back up to MPR and PBS, ok 317 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: for the for the programs that they're developing. So rather 318 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 1: than the taxes going directly to MPR or to PBS, 319 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: it goes to the Corporation Republic Broadcasting. But even still, 320 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 1: rather than going directly to MPR PBS, it goes to 321 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: the smaller affiliates who then give it to MPR and PPS. 322 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: And by give it you mean they licensing fees to 323 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: play those shows on their right exactly. Yeah, like they 324 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: I think they subscribe and they paid like a yearly 325 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: fee to carry that show. Yeah. And when it first 326 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: started NPR, and we'll cover NPR first largely and then 327 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: get into PBS. But is when MPR started and at 328 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: the time there are only ninety member stations and now 329 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: they are close to a thousand member stations all over 330 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: the country licensing these legendary shows. Right. And then for 331 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 1: the smaller local affiliates, if you have all things considered on, 332 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: you're going to attract a percentage of your town's listeners. 333 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: The more listeners you have for that, the more pledges 334 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 1: you'll get during your pledge drive, right. And then you also, 335 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: the more listeners you have, the more UM contributions you 336 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: can get through underwriting too. Yeah, but also you'll have 337 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: to pay more money to license these shows too write 338 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: the more listeners you have, Yeah, Like, Um, well, I 339 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: guess we should go over where they get their funding largely, 340 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: and then how they charged the member stations. Uh and 341 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: um says was from fees and dues from member stations, 342 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: the close corporate sponsorship which has risen over the years. 343 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: I think I think that was kind of a controversial 344 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: thing for a while, whether or not they wanted to 345 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: take on any of that. I think, is it like 346 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: how much they're beholden to that, Yeah, that makes sense, 347 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: grants and contributions and then um, like you mentioned foundations, endowments, 348 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: colleges and universities, stuff like that will pitch in some 349 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:48,159 Speaker 1: dough what's the big one that it's always the Katherine T. 350 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: John d and Katherine Tee MacArthur found exactly. It's like 351 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: drilled into your head after all these years. And the 352 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: Chubb group for PBS, oh yeah, and members like you, 353 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: um Morning Edition and all things considered, they are UM 354 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: stations are charged based on the volume of their listeners 355 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: plus a multiplier, and then things like fresh air apparently 356 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 1: are priced in proportion to that station's revenue, So smaller 357 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: stations don't have to pay as much as bigger stations, 358 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: which is great because again the whole idea between behind 359 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,199 Speaker 1: public broadcasting is that you have stuff that's supposed to be, 360 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,440 Speaker 1: like you said, not beholden to advertisers. So if company 361 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: X is, you know, screwing over this town's water supply then, 362 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: but they advertise with all of the broadcast networks that 363 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: are commercially driven, those those networks. News might not mention it, 364 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: but public public broadcasting will probably do that story and 365 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,600 Speaker 1: we'll let everybody know. Yeah, that's the idea. So it's 366 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: important for everybody to have public broadcasting. And that's why 367 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: the the smaller ones are supported by the larger ones. Exactly. Yeah, um, PBS. 368 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: On the other side, we mentioned Mr Rogers, Nova Man 369 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 1: Growing Up. That was a good one. Wasn't Cosmos on PBS? 370 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: I think so? I think it was. Originally it seems 371 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: like a very PBSC show. Sure, that turtleneck masterpiece theater. 372 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: Of course, this old house, the frugal gourmet. Who was that? 373 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:34,000 Speaker 1: Was that? Julia Child or Jack papan Oh? Immediately thought 374 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: Julia Child. But now you have me wondering. We'll find out, Okay, 375 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: I'll get to the bottom of this child. You mentioned 376 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: McNeil Lair Report Evening at the Pops Uh Sesame Street. 377 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: Probably the most legendary not probably definitely the most legendary 378 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: kids show of all time, and PBS gets about two 379 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: hundred million viewers annually, representing eight t two of US 380 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: television households. So they're they're big, you know, they're not 381 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: like I mean, I know you think of PBS is 382 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: like the sweet little like publicly funded thing. But that's 383 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: that's big stuff. Like if they took in ads, they 384 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have to sweat it at all. No, you know, 385 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: but that's a double edged sword because then they lose 386 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,160 Speaker 1: their their public value if they start taking an ad allegedly, 387 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: which again is why some people haven't really stuck in 388 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: their craw that they have underwriting at all. Yeah, it's 389 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,400 Speaker 1: Jeff Smith. By the way, I never heard of him. 390 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: Frugal Gourmet. Yeah, well not in the seventies, it wasn't. Yeah, 391 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: it said. He released a book in nineteen eighty four 392 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 1: called The Frugal Gourmet. He's the only person associated with it, 393 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: Jeff Smith. It sounds like an alias to me. It 394 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,359 Speaker 1: really doesn't. Maybe it's Jacques Popin is French for Jeff Smith. Yeah, 395 00:24:54,359 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 1: it says Jeff Smith. Four Jeff the chef. Chef Jeff, 396 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 1: he was the Frugal Gore Mate. He was, according to 397 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: the Seattle Post Intelligencer, TV's original celebrity chefs he wasn't 398 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: that big of a celebrity apparently about that so, um, 399 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: PBS has three hundred and fifty member stations as of now, 400 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: and um they are in all fifty states plus Guam, 401 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,119 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico, US Virgin Islands and American Samoa. Yeah. I 402 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 1: got their own member stations pretty neat. And they, for 403 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: the record, get about seven percent of their funding from CPB. Right. 404 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 1: But just like with the NPR model, local affiliates, Yeah, 405 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 1: pay to carry Antiques road Show as they should. Man, 406 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: if you want to get some viewers, just have an 407 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 1: antiques road show marathon. Do you watch it? Have you 408 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: ever seen it? Um? Yeah, I have seen it. Uh 409 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 1: so good. It's just it's like how it's made you 410 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: just get stuck in it lulls you into its trap. 411 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: Well that's like I mean this our own article at 412 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: house stuff works as a little sidebar about the sound 413 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,359 Speaker 1: of NPR. How was parodied with Delicious Dish on Saturday 414 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: Night Live so famously. But that's the thing, you know, 415 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: you I'd used to listen to public radio on the 416 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: radio during my commutes before I even really knew what 417 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 1: I was listening to, because I didn't want to wake 418 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: up to a lot of noise. Oh yeah, it's just 419 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: so soothing. It just kind of eased you into the day. Yeah, absolutely, 420 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 1: and it still does. I still listened to it four News, 421 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: but largely because I want to hear the voices. Yeah, man, 422 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: are you in the a MSR? The Second Cup? Oh 423 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: is that still around? Writes us? Oh? God, bless her 424 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: second Cup concert. Uh have you ever looked at pictures 425 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: of these people? I know people freak out about us, 426 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 1: but yeah, it happens. But you should see these people. 427 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:50,639 Speaker 1: I looked at Lowis, writes us, and I think I 428 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: expected her to be like four years old. Yeah she's not. Nope, 429 00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: I've no I guess I've never seen and reem is thirty. Yeah, 430 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: they'd like to hang on to folks. You know Herery Gross, 431 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 1: she's been doing that show for since the eighties. Amazing. 432 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: We should be so lucky, right, Hey, your lips the 433 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: God's ear? Okay, okay, so chuck, um, there's there's a 434 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: couple of things going on here. Okay, there are Um, 435 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: we're getting into the sides. Yeah, there's so. One of 436 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: the things that Congress likes to do every about five 437 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: years is say, you know that public broadcasting that left 438 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: leaning COMI drivel. Why are we playing for that? Yeah? Why? 439 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: And so I was reading this dude named David Boaz 440 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: or bows Boas, take your pick. He's one of the 441 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: higher ups that the Cato Institute libertarian think tank. He 442 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: hates public broadcasting in America. Most libertarians do. Like it is. 443 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,199 Speaker 1: It really gets to this guy, and he makes a 444 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: couple of pretty decent points right like he his to him, 445 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: it's a transfer of wealth from the average taxpayer up 446 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,920 Speaker 1: to produce entertainment that that you know, the upper middle 447 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: class typically consumes, even though it's intended for everybody. Um. 448 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: And so, from like a taxpayer standpoint, I can kind 449 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: of understand where if you didn't agree with if you 450 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,919 Speaker 1: thought that this was leaning against you ideologically and taking 451 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 1: your taxpayer money, I could see how something like that 452 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: would drive you bonkers. Um to me, though, I think 453 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: everybody kind of assumes that public broadcasting in the US 454 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: leans a certain way, typically left ward, but supposedly, study 455 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: after study find that they may be slightly left leaning, 456 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: but they're typically a lot close sort of neutral than then, um, 457 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: they're they're given credit for. Yeah, there've been overall, Yeah, 458 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 1: there's been some things that have happened over the years. Uh. Notably, 459 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven, MPR president at the time and CEO, 460 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: Vivian Schiller had to resign UM or did resign at 461 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: least when there was a video undercover video in a 462 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: meeting where one of the executives called Tea party members 463 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: seriously racist, racist people, right, there was a big deal. 464 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 1: In fact, most of the stuff when you look up 465 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: MPR controversies is all dated at two thousand eleven. For 466 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: that reason, it was a big stink. Well, when they 467 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: got rid of Vivian Schiller, they specifically said that under 468 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: her watch some controversies had really gotten out of control 469 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: and they just no longer thought she could lead any longer. Yeah, 470 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: And so there was a study. Researchers at Duke University 471 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: did a study of a Twitter of the Twitter network 472 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: of MPR and like basically did all this Duke University 473 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: style math that I won't bore you with, but to 474 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 1: analyze whether or not MPR was left leaning or not. 475 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: Um And it wasn't just NPR. They did this with 476 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: a lot of news outlets and I think they never 477 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: actually posted The New York Times, didn't UM there was 478 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,120 Speaker 1: a blog about all this, never posted where MPR fell, 479 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: but they were asked and um, one of the researchers said, Um, 480 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: MPR resides somewhat to the left of center, but further 481 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: to the right than Katie Kuric the Washington Post, the 482 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: l A Times, or Brian Williams, and that was using 483 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: their algorithm. And then MPR kind of um hit back 484 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: and said, in fact, Steve Williams Stevensky wrote it, wrote 485 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: a article for The Wall Street Journal and said, in 486 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: all these surveys, most listeners consistently identify themselves as the 487 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: middle of the road or conservative. So a lot of 488 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: people are like, oh, wait a minute, like that can't 489 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 1: be true, And so they did. Um, they got the 490 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: actual numbers from those surveys, and twenty percent of nprs 491 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: audience said that they were conservative or very conservative, middle 492 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: of the road and thirty seven percent liberal or very 493 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: liberal SOT or middle of the road or conservative or 494 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: middle of the road or liberals. So it's not as 495 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: heavy and this isn't their programming. This is their audience, right, 496 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: but it's not as heavy left as some might heavy believe. Yeah, 497 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 1: and and just because that's their audience. I mean that 498 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: kind of suggests that it is a little more left 499 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: leaning because people tend to go seek out stuff that 500 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: supports their own beliefs rather than challenges. It probably hats 501 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: off to the middle of the road conservative ones that listen, Yeah, 502 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: you want to take another break before we get back 503 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: to it. So the I think it's almost really just 504 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: kind of more a matter of perception. We were talking 505 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: about whether MPR is left leaning or not, or public 506 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: broadcasting in general. I think it's probably a little bit 507 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: left leaning, but it's not how you know, it's not 508 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: like the info wars of the left right, you mean CNN, UM. 509 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: The uh. The thing about criticizing MPR, though, is you 510 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: can go one way. You can say it's a little 511 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 1: left leaning, but if you look on the other side, 512 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: you'll find people like no, I'm chom Ski who say 513 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: that's you're getting Mayre down in the details. He said, 514 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: if you really listen to MPR, where you watch PBS 515 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: UM and you listen to this stuff they're saying or 516 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: the people they're having on as experts, it's the same 517 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 1: that you're gonna find on cable news. And I think 518 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: one MPR former MPR correspondent basically said that MPR runs 519 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: press releases for the Pentagon. Noam Chomsky was saying, it 520 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 1: was basically structurally there to support the status quo. Where 521 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,120 Speaker 1: if if they're presenting a debate and all all, you know, 522 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: both sides of the debate, it's all still very structured 523 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: within the status quo. They're not bringing in somebody who's like, well, 524 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: all of this is moot point, we need to completely 525 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: redo the structure of our economy or something like that. 526 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: They don't bring in outside voices like that. They bring 527 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: in voices that are exact us within normalcy or whatever. 528 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: So there's a whole camp out there, um that that 529 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: tend to say, remember that thing that Lyndon Johnson originally did, 530 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: the reason why he founded the Corporation for Public Broadcasting 531 00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: to kind of keep a clamp down and criticism, to 532 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: keep things within a reasonable spectrum. Well he succeeded. I 533 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: kind of tend to agree with that. Yeah, I don't 534 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,800 Speaker 1: I feel like they usually provide counterpoints, right, They definitely 535 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: provide counterpoints, but it's all that counterpoint is something that's 536 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: still within the bounds of normalcy. There's not somebody coming 537 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,959 Speaker 1: in and saying like, forget those either points, like they're 538 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,760 Speaker 1: both we just gotta throw everything away and start over again. 539 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: That that, I think the point is that it's lacking 540 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 1: really really outside viewpoints, right, you know what I'm saying, 541 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: outside the status quo. So this is all come up 542 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 1: in the news more recently because this year when um 543 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: uh Trump proposed his his budget proposal for UM, which 544 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,480 Speaker 1: is not you know, this is not settled or anything 545 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,839 Speaker 1: by any means. In fact, MPR people are like, you know, 546 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: let's just settle down, like this isn't this is round one, um. 547 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: But the proposal at least called for the eventual complete 548 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,960 Speaker 1: abolish meant that a word of public funding, uh, for 549 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,399 Speaker 1: for PBS, n NPR or for CPBRIGHT. And again you've 550 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: got people on both sides saying, good, great, let's just 551 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,240 Speaker 1: get it over with. Yeah, an eventual meaning they wouldn't 552 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: just pull it would be gradually over time, which of course, 553 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: you know, makes more sense than just like doing it 554 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: all at once, tearing the band aid off. Yeah. And 555 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: you know, like I said, I'm always been a big 556 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 1: supporter of public broadcasting, but I thought, you know, maybe 557 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: just be free from those shackles finally, maybe the public 558 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: would step up. Where where you get hurt and apparently 559 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 1: where UM, PBS and NPR are both kind of trying 560 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: to voice their most of their concerns is that you know, 561 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:02,920 Speaker 1: of course your big cities are gonna be fine, but 562 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: it's the smaller market member stations that rely way more 563 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 1: on the CPB funding UM that are going to be 564 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: most hurt. And these are the people that need this 565 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:17,879 Speaker 1: stuff the most. These rural communities UH need public broadcasting. 566 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: So it's hard to argue with that point. You know, 567 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: it is for sure there's actually UM a historical lesson 568 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: in here. You can look to New Zealand for this. 569 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: Like back in the late eighties they try to deregulation experiment, 570 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,080 Speaker 1: but they had one channel tv n Z in the 571 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: whole country and UM the government said, you know what, 572 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: you guys are done with the teat of the government, 573 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 1: go sell some ads, and they tried this experiment. T 574 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,279 Speaker 1: v n Z actually came out as I believe it 575 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: survived UM, but it was worse for the wear as 576 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: a result. And ironically UM, this deregulation opened a space 577 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:05,840 Speaker 1: for a true UM nonprofit non commercial television called UM 578 00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: New Zealand on air Uh, that actually came and thrived 579 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 1: in the wake of this transformation for TVNZ from public 580 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,120 Speaker 1: broadcasting to commercially driven. So it's it's it's not necessarily 581 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: gonna work out well for the people who listen to 582 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 1: NPR or watch PBS if they go to completely commercially 583 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: driven programming. And the whole reason that you have the 584 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: corporation of public broadcasting ostensibly is because commercially driven journalism 585 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: wasn't getting the job done before, and it certainly is 586 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 1: it now. News rooms being cut um, news that is 587 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: on cable being more and more polarized one way or another, 588 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: and it's just shouting match after shouting match. If you 589 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,920 Speaker 1: really watch the news, the only people, aside from some 590 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: of those old died in the world news people on 591 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 1: like um, you know, NBC or CBS is like nightly news. 592 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,400 Speaker 1: The only ones really doing real journalism are the ones 593 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: who are working for public broadcasting at the very least, 594 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,439 Speaker 1: they're the ones who are trying the hardest. For sure, Yeah, 595 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: you could totally make that argument, But at the same time, 596 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 1: we're in a weird limbo state where everybody's ticked off, 597 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:24,160 Speaker 1: right because it's PBS and NPR are not just not 598 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 1: fully publicly funded, and they're not just advertising driven. There 599 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 1: are a combination of the two that that that compromises 600 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,839 Speaker 1: them two different ways, which is why both sides are 601 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,600 Speaker 1: saying one or the other. I tend to feel like 602 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,959 Speaker 1: they should just go completely publicly funded and we should 603 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,000 Speaker 1: adopt something like a British model where it's like you're 604 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: funded for the next five years, go do the public 605 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 1: some good and you can't have any underwriting whatsoever. Yeah, well, 606 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting and that, um, most of Europe 607 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 1: and Britain definitely went that other direction, like you mentioned 608 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:01,960 Speaker 1: at the ending, and in that one article you sent 609 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: over talking about ways it's done public broadcasting in other 610 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: countries as a whole, and they were talking about the 611 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 1: BBC and they said, you know, who is the average 612 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 1: I can't remember who they asked, but who's the average 613 00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 1: BBC viewer? And the answer was every British citizen right. Like, 614 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 1: it's a much different deal, you know. And the BBC's 615 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:25,759 Speaker 1: criticized too for being a government mouthpiece in a lot 616 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: of ways too, but they're also critical of the government 617 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: in ways that other people aren't. And they'll also put 618 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: news on at a time when everybody is home to 619 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: watch it. That kind of stuff. So the future of 620 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: broadcasting public broadcasting UM isn't as simple as like are 621 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: they going to be publicly funded or not? UM, it's 622 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 1: whether or not they're still viable, uh in um. The 623 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: median audience age was fifty four years old, and in 624 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: twenty years BEFO for that it was forty five. It's 625 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: a pretty pretty big age. At least it wasn't like 626 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,640 Speaker 1: I stayed exactly the same, the same people just got 627 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 1: twenty years older. So they are getting some younger listeners. 628 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,839 Speaker 1: But it's the way that especially people under thirty five 629 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: years old consumed media is radically different than their parents. Yeah, 630 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: and there's plenty of people out there who are younger 631 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,640 Speaker 1: who qualify as quote unquote millennials who are like listening 632 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: to stuff that MPR puts out there, listening to the huge, 633 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 1: huge slate of MPR podcasts. Right, there's a ton of 634 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: podcasts the MPR puts out. A lot of their radio 635 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: programs are repurposed into podcasts, and so there's a lot 636 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,280 Speaker 1: of younger people who are listening to it. The problem 637 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: is that poses a conundrum to the public broadcasting model 638 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: as it stands in the US though, right, well, yeah, 639 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: I looked at the top twenty today on the iTunes 640 00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,320 Speaker 1: just to kind of see an NPR had eight of 641 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: the top twenty shows as stiff competition for US Hidden Brain, 642 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: This American Life, Planet Money, um I guess Stown and 643 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,719 Speaker 1: Serial both they would qualify because they come out of 644 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,760 Speaker 1: This American Life stable and that's where it got its start. 645 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: Their highest rank show today was Ted Radio Hour at 646 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:26,399 Speaker 1: number five. Incidentally, we were number four. Good but um, yeah, 647 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,920 Speaker 1: I mean eight shows in the top twenty. But it 648 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: does pose an interesting conundrum for them. I know when 649 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 1: they were started to dip their toe into podcasts, and 650 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,960 Speaker 1: then once podcast started generating revenue via ads, they weren't 651 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,840 Speaker 1: quite sure how to handle all that stuff. No, and 652 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:44,759 Speaker 1: part of the part of the problem is is if 653 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: you're a small local affiliate, you've paid a lot of 654 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,239 Speaker 1: money to get fresh air on your airwaves. You don't 655 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: want some twenty year old going and listening to it 656 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: on the new whiz Bang MPR app that the city 657 00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: slickers came up with. You want them listening to your 658 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: station so that you can get their donations. Um So, 659 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 1: for a while MPR had uh an embargo and even 660 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: mentioning the fact that there were podcasts out there on air. Yeah, um, 661 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 1: right now. I think they say that it's okay to 662 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 1: mention that an announcer hosts a podcast, but they don't 663 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: say like, hey, go download the podcast, go to iTunes 664 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:28,879 Speaker 1: or Apple. Right, they say that they hosted buck Well, 665 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,600 Speaker 1: it's a legit concern. But my whole thing is you can't, like, 666 00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: you can't fight on demand listening or viewing. You just 667 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 1: can't fight it. You can't tell a twenty six year 668 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: old no, you need to turn tune in from seven 669 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 1: to nine a m. To listen to us. They're like, 670 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:54,040 Speaker 1: what is this tune in? What is seven to nine? Yeah? No, 671 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,399 Speaker 1: it's true. And if if you're fighting against it, you're 672 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,000 Speaker 1: you're going to lose. Yeah, because that's the beauty of podcasts. 673 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,080 Speaker 1: What's said is, looking at it from the outside, it 674 00:43:02,120 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: looks like MPR and PBS get this because MPR has 675 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,439 Speaker 1: its own apps, PBS has an on demand video app 676 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:13,480 Speaker 1: as well. They it looks like the larger institutions get this. 677 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,799 Speaker 1: But I don't see what anyone's doing to save the 678 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: local affiliates, the small town ones that are really going 679 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:22,319 Speaker 1: to be the first to suffer, or if they're just 680 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:27,879 Speaker 1: being sacrifices canaries in the coal mine, um, in which 681 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,720 Speaker 1: case that's just the way it's gonna roll, because those 682 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,320 Speaker 1: kids in those small towns are still going to listen 683 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:36,880 Speaker 1: to MPR, they're just not listening to it on the 684 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,480 Speaker 1: radio any longer. Well, but then people, you know there 685 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: there's a segment of people that would say, well, you 686 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,759 Speaker 1: know what, them's the breaks, and if your little member 687 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,640 Speaker 1: station goes out of business, then that's called changing times. Okay, 688 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,720 Speaker 1: but let's take this back to you. Remember my example 689 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: where Corporation Next was poisoning the water in your small town. 690 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: No one outside of the town knew about it. Incorporation 691 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,920 Speaker 1: Next advertised on the networks, the local news, so the 692 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 1: local news weren't going to take them on. That's why 693 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:06,319 Speaker 1: you need that small, tiny affiliate who not have to 694 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,839 Speaker 1: worry about funding and advertising so that they can do 695 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 1: good journalism and expose that corporation to the rest of 696 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,120 Speaker 1: the town. Well, if that's small radio station and that 697 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,440 Speaker 1: small PBS affiliate drives up because of the MPR app 698 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,760 Speaker 1: Corporation Next gets away with poisoning the whole town. Nobody 699 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,960 Speaker 1: knows town Dies gets blown over by dust and it's 700 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,359 Speaker 1: like it was never there. I wonder, and certainly there 701 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: are people in NPR corporate that are way more knowledgeable 702 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,880 Speaker 1: and trying to solve this, Peter falken Flick than me. 703 00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 1: But I wonder if they could, like on the podcast 704 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: Peter Overbee David folken Flick, I combined the two into 705 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,279 Speaker 1: one super host. It should one super correspond to supergroup. 706 00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 1: They're like Damn Yankees Um. I was on a plane 707 00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,240 Speaker 1: flight with him one time, by the way, where they rowdy. 708 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 1: They weren't in first class, but I remember being like, 709 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 1: however old I was when that came out fifteen or 710 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen something like that, were you really and like 711 00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:06,879 Speaker 1: Jack Blade was sitting on one side of me, Ted 712 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 1: Nugent was in front of me, Tommy Shaw was behind me, 713 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: and it was like I was part of the band. 714 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: I was sitting in the middle of these that's really 715 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,120 Speaker 1: cool music legends, and I thought, man, I love Night 716 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 1: Ranger and I love Sticks. But he's reading I remember specifically, 717 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,480 Speaker 1: I'm reading a hunting magazine. Yeah, I can believe that 718 00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: just fantasized. Yeah, I'd rather be hunting. Well, I can 719 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,800 Speaker 1: tell you Ted Nugent is not listening to this particular episode, 720 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,719 Speaker 1: certainly not. Uh So my idea was, maybe, like I 721 00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,719 Speaker 1: wonder if they could encourage via the podcast, say, hey, 722 00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: we know you enjoy us on your podcast, but why 723 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: don't you donate money to your local members affiliate even 724 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: though you don't consume it through the there to keep 725 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,640 Speaker 1: the calls alive, you know, yeah, I mean that's just 726 00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 1: my dumb outsider's opinion. Well, what if you turn local 727 00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 1: affiliates from broadcast bay, Like, you know, you've got to 728 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:04,399 Speaker 1: spend a lot of money on a transmitter and up 729 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,840 Speaker 1: links and all that kind of stuff. What if you 730 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 1: just turned them into news bureaus like they were for 731 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,840 Speaker 1: investigative journalism and recording for local and then that local 732 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,759 Speaker 1: stuff could be kicked up the line, you knoww some 733 00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:21,719 Speaker 1: local reporting appears on the national edition of Morning Edition 734 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: or whatever. What if you just turned them all into 735 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,279 Speaker 1: into news bureaus instead, and then they just went completely 736 00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,839 Speaker 1: online consumption. What if like the head of MPR just 737 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,200 Speaker 1: like swerved off the road. It was like, oh my god, 738 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,560 Speaker 1: these guys figuring it out so uh getting back to 739 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: their new models that the the mp mp R one 740 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 1: is the app and about of their users or under 741 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,879 Speaker 1: thirty five that coveted demo and um, but here's the thing. 742 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: They did some surveys and they said a third of 743 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:59,440 Speaker 1: those users seldom listen to traditional radio, but said they 744 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,560 Speaker 1: because of the app, we're starting to listen to more 745 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,840 Speaker 1: terrestrial radio, which I'm not sure I get how that works, 746 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,759 Speaker 1: but well, I could see just being like, oh, I 747 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:09,799 Speaker 1: didn't know this was here. Wait a minute, there's like 748 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,040 Speaker 1: a whole radio station that has this. I'm gonna go 749 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,080 Speaker 1: check that out. And I can see that. Uh. And 750 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,319 Speaker 1: then there is Passport, which you mentioned was I don't 751 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,920 Speaker 1: think by name, but that's the PBS video on demand 752 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,400 Speaker 1: service that you get if you donate to your local station. 753 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,880 Speaker 1: I think five dollars a month donation will get you 754 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 1: access to Passport. And that's if you wanted to binge doubt, 755 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,399 Speaker 1: n Abby, you could have done that via Passport. Did 756 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,200 Speaker 1: you watch that? I saw an episode or two. I 757 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:47,719 Speaker 1: just never tickled my gizzard. Okay, I love it, big fan. Yeah, 758 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:49,600 Speaker 1: I know a lot of people did. And I didn't 759 00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,719 Speaker 1: hate it or anything. And shoot the TV when it 760 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,280 Speaker 1: came on. Yeah, you didn't go shoot my passport app 761 00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 1: uh and then the other big shake up in recent years. 762 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:03,360 Speaker 1: Um last year in Sesame Street made the big jump 763 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: over to HBO after forty six years on PBS, and 764 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,279 Speaker 1: there were a lot of mixed feelings about this, some 765 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:15,440 Speaker 1: people saying, oh man, what a what a drag. You're 766 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:19,800 Speaker 1: now on a pay station and these uh, these kids 767 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,040 Speaker 1: and that can't afford cable TV and HBO maybe that 768 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 1: really need Sesame Street can't watch it anymore? Or these 769 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,000 Speaker 1: new episodes of the Big Birds said t S, I 770 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,799 Speaker 1: got some money, Big Bird said, you want Sesame Street 771 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: to stay on the air, and this is the only 772 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,560 Speaker 1: way it's gonna happen. And you can watch these episodes 773 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 1: nine months after they air on HBO. So to me, 774 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,080 Speaker 1: it's kind of a win win. I thought that was 775 00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:45,880 Speaker 1: cool that Big Bird win in negotiated that that PBS 776 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,600 Speaker 1: still got episodes after a certain time. Yeah, good for you, 777 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,759 Speaker 1: Big Bird and elm So. So to me, Chuck, this 778 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 1: is my thing. I think public broadcasting should be public. Originally, 779 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,200 Speaker 1: IDA was when you bought a television set, there was 780 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:06,799 Speaker 1: a tax on it that went specifically to fund public broadcasting, 781 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,520 Speaker 1: so it got looped into the appropriations process. Which so 782 00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,600 Speaker 1: they have to go beg for the money every year. Um, 783 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:18,160 Speaker 1: if it were publicly funded through some sort of tax 784 00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 1: that was designated just for it, and um there was 785 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,040 Speaker 1: also this is a really big point to this is 786 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,879 Speaker 1: how it was originally supposed to be. They were shielded 787 00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:33,240 Speaker 1: from government meddling by a nonpartisan board of directors whose 788 00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:37,680 Speaker 1: entire job it was was to keep the government out 789 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:42,120 Speaker 1: of public broadcasts and they could just focus on good, 790 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 1: unfettered journalism. That would be the ideal, And I don't 791 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,560 Speaker 1: think it's too late to go to that model. I 792 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:53,000 Speaker 1: think commercial commercial broadcasting shows that there's a huge need 793 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:56,160 Speaker 1: for it, but that in the US it's in this 794 00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:59,840 Speaker 1: weird limbo state. Is it commercial, is it publicly funded? 795 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,960 Speaker 1: You know what's the There's so many easily fixed problems 796 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,279 Speaker 1: with it. But you have to go all one way 797 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,680 Speaker 1: or all the other. To me, do you know? It 798 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:13,160 Speaker 1: would be great and also a disaster, now that I 799 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 1: thought about it for half a second. Is if you could, like, 800 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,720 Speaker 1: when you go to pay your taxes, you could select 801 00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,000 Speaker 1: a box that say I would like a portion of 802 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,400 Speaker 1: my taxes to go to funding public broadcasting or to 803 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:27,759 Speaker 1: funding schools. That wouldn't work. Well, if that was just 804 00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:29,879 Speaker 1: what they relied on, it might not work, but why 805 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,719 Speaker 1: not added on there could do it as well in 806 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:36,959 Speaker 1: addition to let's public broadcasting. I got a few little 807 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:40,319 Speaker 1: facts here, though, we got some more public broadcasting. Um, 808 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,479 Speaker 1: I just looked up MPR's own like interesting facts about 809 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:49,080 Speaker 1: NPR all things consider. Their very first episode was covering 810 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:52,960 Speaker 1: the m twenty thousand person protests of the Vietnam War. 811 00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,759 Speaker 1: Featured a twenty four minutes sound portrait of the protests, 812 00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:00,720 Speaker 1: the very first thing they ever did. Yeah, it's pretty ballsy, 813 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,400 Speaker 1: we say balls. I don't know. We'll find out how 814 00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: much I heard Terry Gross. She was on a Mark 815 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,279 Speaker 1: Mayrin episode and she talked about not kind of a 816 00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,480 Speaker 1: bit of a desire to be free from the shackles 817 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:22,640 Speaker 1: of her the restrictions of being on MPR. Oh yeah, yeah. Mainly, 818 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,600 Speaker 1: she said, when they do like readings from an author 819 00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:27,879 Speaker 1: and they have to really go in ahead of time 820 00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:30,279 Speaker 1: and say, hey, you can't say this word from your 821 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,760 Speaker 1: reading on the air and stuff like that, she doesn't 822 00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:34,560 Speaker 1: want to get up there and just Phil Flor and 823 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: Phil foul that's not Terry Gross style. No, But she 824 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,080 Speaker 1: also doesn't want to be like, by the way, you 825 00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:44,759 Speaker 1: can't say the B word. Yeah, exactly. Um. MPR had 826 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:48,040 Speaker 1: a lot of first one of them, Susan Standberg All 827 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,239 Speaker 1: Things Considered host in nineteen seventy two, was the very 828 00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,160 Speaker 1: first woman to be an anchor for a national news broadcast, 829 00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,440 Speaker 1: The Simpsons, A special love for them. Terry Gross, Bob Boylan, 830 00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,920 Speaker 1: Robert Siegel, and Carl Cassell have all been Carl Castle. 831 00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:09,160 Speaker 1: What say Cassell? You're thinking of? Howard Cosell was Carl Castle. 832 00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,840 Speaker 1: They were all on The Simpsons and then Morning It 833 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:16,479 Speaker 1: had some other names before they settled on that morning air. 834 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,800 Speaker 1: First things first, it's not bad, very MPR. And then 835 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,400 Speaker 1: this sounds so MPR. It's probably why they didn't do it. 836 00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:31,799 Speaker 1: Tweet Jack starting line, Yeah, that's sound too bad. I 837 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 1: think Morning Edition is good. I think it's the best. Uh. 838 00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:40,720 Speaker 1: And then finally, Bob Boylan's great, great show Tiny Desk Concerts. Steward, 839 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,440 Speaker 1: listen to those, No, but I'm familiar with them. Man, 840 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:47,120 Speaker 1: it's just the best. Uh. He had a band called 841 00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,040 Speaker 1: Tiny Desk Unit, and that was why he named the 842 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,080 Speaker 1: show Tiny Desk Concerts. Thank you Music Shows for clearing 843 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,600 Speaker 1: that up. I had no idea. Why well, I mean 844 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:03,680 Speaker 1: it's named that because they performed in the his MPR office, Right, 845 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,640 Speaker 1: That's what I thought, But it's still Yeah, it is 846 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,960 Speaker 1: his desk, like miniature. I've got one more for you, 847 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,640 Speaker 1: all right. So there was this two thousand eleven study 848 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:17,280 Speaker 1: um that found that of fourteen Western democracies, the United 849 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 1: States was the only one to rely almost entirely on 850 00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:25,600 Speaker 1: commercial broadcasting to inform at citizenry. That's precarious. Interesting, and 851 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,200 Speaker 1: that the same article you sent did a lot of 852 00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:31,879 Speaker 1: studies that found that those countries, those other countries are 853 00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:41,160 Speaker 1: generally much more well informed about news events. Yes, traffic accident, 854 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,719 Speaker 1: everybody knows. Uh. If you want to know more about 855 00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:48,560 Speaker 1: public broadcasting, go listen to MPR, watch PBS, and decide 856 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:51,960 Speaker 1: for yourself what you think about them. Uh. And in 857 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,279 Speaker 1: the meantime, you can also type those words in the 858 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,839 Speaker 1: search bar how stiff first dot com Since I said 859 00:53:56,840 --> 00:54:03,400 Speaker 1: search parts time for listener mail. Uh. This is from 860 00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:08,919 Speaker 1: a Ron in Miami, A R O N. I think 861 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:14,759 Speaker 1: it's just I don't know a Ron the great key 862 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:18,440 Speaker 1: and peels kit. Uh. Hey, guys, just got into podcast 863 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,080 Speaker 1: a couple of months ago, and I'm a Catchup fan. 864 00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,680 Speaker 1: We did a Remember That Ketchup podcast, good one. I'm 865 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,200 Speaker 1: a firm believer it belongs in the pantry, not the refrigerator. 866 00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:30,799 Speaker 1: That many debates about this, mostly while intoxicated, But that's 867 00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,759 Speaker 1: beside the point. Many things work well in contrast, like 868 00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:37,680 Speaker 1: a frosty beverage with buffalo wings or crunchy potato chip 869 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,400 Speaker 1: alongside a softer sandwich. But who wants to dip a 870 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,800 Speaker 1: hot French fry into cold ketchup? H I gotta agree 871 00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,239 Speaker 1: with this guy. Yeah, uh, he said. To be clear, 872 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,120 Speaker 1: my claim is based solely on memory. However, I recall 873 00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:55,440 Speaker 1: Heinz introducing their fridge Fit Catchup bottle in two thousand six. 874 00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,759 Speaker 1: During a debate about pantry versus refrigerated, someone on the 875 00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,719 Speaker 1: other side pointed out it was not either to refrigerate 876 00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:05,520 Speaker 1: after opening for best results, refrigerate after opening. It was like, 877 00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,920 Speaker 1: not either or I'm not sure what he's saying there, confusing. 878 00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:11,760 Speaker 1: I was completely for it. I've never seen such verbiage 879 00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,840 Speaker 1: on a Hines bottle before. Uh. And then it dawned 880 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:18,480 Speaker 1: on me. Hines had just hit uh and released the 881 00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,000 Speaker 1: fridge fit bottle. Of course, they will direct you to 882 00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,120 Speaker 1: keep this in the fridge. It's part of the marketing strategy. 883 00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:25,120 Speaker 1: Has nothing to do with the best way to enjoy 884 00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,959 Speaker 1: the ketchupy goodness, this guy was wasted when he wrote 885 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,440 Speaker 1: this is becoming clear. It's a little confusing in the 886 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:35,600 Speaker 1: middle there, but he said that. Thanks for the information, entertainment, 887 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,640 Speaker 1: and remember say no to refrigeration of ketchup the a 888 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:44,399 Speaker 1: A Ron, thank thanks for that. Read the sentence. Maybe 889 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:48,000 Speaker 1: it's me no, no, I heard you say it, and 890 00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:54,319 Speaker 1: it it sounded like you were reading it correctly. Okay, well, 891 00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,320 Speaker 1: thanks A Roan. We hope you feel better in the morning. 892 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:00,200 Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with us, like 893 00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,120 Speaker 1: A Ran did, you can tweet to us at s 894 00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,440 Speaker 1: y s K podcast. You can join us on Facebook 895 00:56:04,480 --> 00:56:07,160 Speaker 1: dot com slash stuff you Should Know. You can send 896 00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:10,759 Speaker 1: an email to stuff podcast at how stuff works dot com. 897 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,720 Speaker 1: Has always joined us at her home on the web 898 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:18,920 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know dot com for more on this 899 00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:21,640 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works 900 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:32,560 Speaker 1: dot com