WEBVTT - 2 Misconceptions About Love & How to Turn Toxicity into Healthy Boundaries 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.000 If you don't put in the effort to try to 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.400 recognize from where they're coming from and see it from 0:00:06.440 --> 0:00:10.200 their perspective, you may never know and you may continue 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:12.840 living this life thinking that nobody really cares about me 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:17.239 because you're not stepping outside of yourself and so in relationship. 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:27.159 Hey everyone, welcome back to this very special episode of 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.160 On Purpose. Thanks to our partners that Better Help for 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:34.400 this episode today, I'm joined with Hay Sue Joe, licensed 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:39.040 therapist and head of clinical operations at Better Help. Hey, everyone, 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.240 welcome back to Purpose. Thank you so much for coming 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:46.879 back to listen to today's episode. I'm so grateful that 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.720 you trust me. I'm so grateful that you value your 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:52.680 time here with On Purpose so much, and I want 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:54.640 you to know that I deeply value each and every 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.320 one of you that make time in your days and 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.600 your weeks to connect here. And as you know, I'm 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.000 always trying to come up with new ideas, creative ways 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:08.440 of helping you learn about your journey towards happiness, towards healing, 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:11.200 and towards health. And one of the ways I like 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:13.840 to do that is I love experiments, I always have, 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.399 and I like doing things myself and putting myself in 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:21.400 uncomfortable positions. And so one of the series that we 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:24.080 started off here was me going to therapy and doing 0:01:24.080 --> 0:01:27.919 a therapy session as an episode as a way to 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.640 show you how accessible it is, how simple it is, 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:33.000 how useful it can be, and also for you to 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:34.880 get to know me better as well. I really want 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:36.960 to be able to be more open with you. And 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:39.360 sometimes when I'm doing a four minute interview on TV, 0:01:39.640 --> 0:01:42.399 or even if I do a podcast episode with someone else, 0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:47.920 the conversation can seem very specific to what I'm talking about, 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:50.760 but not necessarily specific to me. So this is all 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.000 of you who would like to know a bit more 0:01:53.040 --> 0:01:55.280 about me, learn a bit more about me and how 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.120 I ended up the way I did, but also encouraging 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.880 the conversation of how did you get to where you 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.040 are today? What is it about your life that you 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.600 can learn from or grow from and can serve you 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:08.080 differently if you thought about it differently. So I want 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.560 to give a big thanks to our incredible partners a 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.680 better help for this episode. Our incredible therapist. Hey Sue, 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.960 who's here with me today? Again, You've seen her in 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:21.400 three episodes before this, and this is our fourth episode 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:23.520 in this series, so make sure you go back and 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.679 listen to the other three if you haven't already. Hey, Sue, 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.680 thank you so much for doing this again. Yeah, it's 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.200 always great to be with you. A And I feel 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:35.920 like after our first therapy session, I feel it's amazing 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:41.360 how you build a relationship with someone so quickly because 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.400 you're so vulnerable with someone. How do you use a 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:48.840 therapist monitor that relationship building? Because almost like as a patient, 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:50.440 I'm like, oh my god, this person's like kind of 0:02:50.440 --> 0:02:53.120 like knows everything about me now, more than what some 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:56.400 of my friends may know about me. Not my closest friends, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.320 but some friends and people start feeling close to their 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:03.760 therapist cause of vulnerability. How what's the professional line and 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:06.440 how do you maintain that because I can imagine a 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.519 lot of people start trusting you deeply. Man, I don't 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.359 know if you already know, but this is like a 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:16.400 focal point in the education of therapists and continuing education. 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.359 This thing you're talking about, you know, your your clients 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.040 begin to feel close to your Your clients will also 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:24.960 love you. Some of your clients will fall in love 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.200 with you. Sometimes you're the first person or one of 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:30.880 the only people. That gives them the experience of being 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:36.000 seen without criticism and judgment, which is like very rare 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.800 in today's modern world when we're trying to connect with people. 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.600 So managing this relationship that becomes very intimate is really 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:47.160 important to protect you, to protect the client. So people 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:50.200 will hear of things like the Code of Ethics, and 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:54.960 these exist to protect the public. Right. It's like, therapists 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:59.560 gain a lot of power in this relationship. I know 0:03:59.720 --> 0:04:02.040 so much about you, but you don't really know anything 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.720 about me, and I could use that with my clients 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:09.920 to a huge advantage. So that is very dangerous, I think. 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.960 And so these codes of ethics ensure that we are 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.640 protecting our clients. We're managing our feelings about our clients, 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.520 the feelings that our clients develop about us. It has 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.200 a word, it's called transference, and the feelings that I 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.200 develop for you, that's countertransference. And these are things that 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.719 we have to process and things that therapists are encouraged 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.960 to go to therapy for consult with other people throughout 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.880 their practice in order to keep things healthy, in order 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.800 to keep things in line with the goal, which is 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.680 to help you meet your ambitions and your goals. It's 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.600 not about anything to do with what my emotional intentions 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:46.800 or my ego is, but it is something that we 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.880 are meant to be mindful to manage because there are 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.760 times where when you're not managing it, it turns into 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:57.000 a very messy situation. And you're like, folks have heard 0:04:57.000 --> 0:04:59.039 of these things. You know, people can lose their license 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:01.800 because they've take an advantage of a client entered a 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:04.479 very personal relationship, which is a huge no no. So 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.880 for me, it's like just knowing and understanding your clients 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.560 will develop very strong feelings about and towards you, and 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.800 continuing to be the safe person that's responsible for establishing 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.920 healthy boundaries and making it very clear, like what is 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.640 this relationship that makes a lot of sense? Thank you 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:25.720 so much. I love that. All right, well, let's dive 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.839 in over to you again. I will hand over my 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:33.320 host hat to you to get into the zone. So 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:35.560 that's what I kind of am interested in talking about 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.880 today with you is relationships. So I don't know what 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:40.880 you're willing to share about that, but can you tell 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.560 me about what being in relationship means to you? And 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.520 like what is important about humans doing that? I think 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:51.000 having a relationship with anyone is is very sacred. If 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.920 you're both making time, sharing energy. You know, whether it's 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.200 my wife, whether it's one of my best friends, whether 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.920 it's a team member. I think about relationships as an 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:07.080 exchange of energy, and I want that energy that is 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:11.240 created and exchange to be positive and healthy for both people. 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.720 I also think about it as a safe space, and 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:17.400 hence I call it sacred. It's it's a safe space 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:22.920 that where you feel trusted, where you feel someone wants 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:28.080 to try to understand, and where you feel that your 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:32.960 openness will not be used against you or will not 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:38.120 be taken advantage of. And beyond all of that, there's 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:42.159 a sense of knowing. And when I say knowing, I 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:43.960 don't mean someone's a mind reader and they know what 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:46.760 you're thinking about. It's that as you start to talk 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.479 to that person, you know they know what you mean 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:54.440 and because they've had so many experiences with you. That's 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:56.920 how I see relationships today. But I think when I 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.159 was growing up, I think I was so in love 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.760 with the idea of love that I just wanted to 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:05.800 be in love. And I think a lot of that 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:09.240 came from just watching too many bad movies. I think 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.880 a lot of my initial ideas on love were based 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:16.160 on terrible movies that you see as a kid, whether 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:22.360 it's American Pie, Road Trip, tons of Bollywood movies too, 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:27.040 that Bollywood movies almost portrayed this really glamorous view of love, 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:32.040 and I think Hollywood movies at the time portrayed a 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:39.000 very lusty like view of love, and you kind of 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:42.160 get caught somewhere in between of like infatuation attraction and 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:44.400 then this glamorized version of love is where I think 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.480 I ended up. And so to me, I was always 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:49.840 wanting to be in love without knowing what it was, 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:54.880 without knowing what it required from the other person. I 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.800 just wanted to give love and be loving and have love. 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:03.080 And I think that led to a lot of issues 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:06.720 growing up when I first started dating, because when I 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:10.640 first started dating, I was around fourteen years old, and 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:12.480 I was kind of like that person who just went 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:17.440 above and beyond all the time with anyone, whether I 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:20.320 just met them or whether I'd known them for a while, 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:26.120 and that was quite new for I guess the girls 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.360 that I was doing as well. We were all fairly young, 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:30.680 and so whether we were in our first relationships or 0:08:30.720 --> 0:08:35.080 a second to have someone who was that overly giving 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:39.480 was quite People appreciated it, people liked it. But I 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.480 realized that I was doing it, and I realized this afterwards. 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:44.040 I was doing it because I just wanted them to 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.640 like me. It's not that I actually beyond being attracted 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.120 to them, or beyond being infatuated with them, or whatever 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.760 it may have been. I don't think I actually knew 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.960 anything about them, But I liked the idea of someone 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:00.920 that I felt attracted to liking me and validating me 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:03.720 and thinking I was a good person, and thinking that 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:06.800 I was special, and thinking that I was important. When 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:11.000 your mind is developing, this means your worldview is developing, 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:15.640 which will later turn into your personal philosophy. So many 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.480 things can impact it. So like, I'm not saying that 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.079 this is how people should live their lives, but personally, 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:25.040 I have witnessed so much and observed how detrimental it 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.200 is to engage in many things as a developing young mind, 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:33.640 whether that substance cannabis, alcohol, sex, like, these kinds of 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.520 things which are highly emotionally charged, when you don't even 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.199 understand what's happening to you, when your state of mind 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:44.520 is being altered. It's very difficult to reconcile that as 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:47.680 an adult. It like totally impacts you and you see 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.800 it now, Like there's so much research that shows kids 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.760 that do these things. I'm not saying it's caused, but 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:56.280 you know, there's a lot more prevalence of mental health 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:58.920 issues for kids that engage in these things versus kids 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.760 that don't. So what we're hearing is that it's it's 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:05.319 guaranteed that if you're in relationships in your teens, you're 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.720 going to go through a ton of pain. Either way, 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:10.200 we're going to make mistakes, Like it's likely that we're 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.880 going to make mistakes, and some of those mistakes become 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.520 really damaging and traumatic long term stay with you for 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.040 I remember that. So my parents never wanted me to 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:23.200 have a relationship until I was Ideally they would never 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.040 have wanted me to have a relationship until I was married, 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:27.920 And so I never told my parents when I was dating. 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:29.800 Like my parents who have no if my parents listened 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.320 to the episode, they have no idea that I've had 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.080 a girlfriend. They probably have some idea now, but like 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:37.840 they would never have known that I was dating at fourteen. Yeah, 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:42.640 and it became so much more attractive to me to 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:44.760 one a day because my parents didn't want me to day. 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.199 And then obviously in culture, you don't want to be 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.720 a loser again if you don't date. And so yeah, 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.800 it's just it's hard because I agree with you. I 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.280 think you wouldn't make as much mistakes, you wouldn't learn 0:10:55.320 --> 0:11:00.440 as much. It it's complicated anyway. Parents sometimes they're not 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:04.559 conscious of why, why they're even setting that role. If 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:07.120 they could articulate it and if a fourteen year old 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.880 could understand it. It's like we're saying this out of 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:14.560 the wisdom of knowing that you are still absorbing the 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.880 world and we want you to absorb it in a 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.680 way that's inviting, welcoming, loving something that you can feel 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.760 is safe. But they don't always know how to say that. 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:28.040 It's just like no dating until you're married. Yeah, so powerful, 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.120 Thank you for that. I love that you mentioned that 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.400 there's like a difference in how you view relationships then 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.280 versus now, Like can you tell me this is a 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.160 big question, but can you tell me, like what happened 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:40.920 to the in between, Like how did you get to 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.280 this place now of how you view relationships? Well, lots 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:48.240 of failed relationships that lots of heartbreak. What used to 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.440 happen was I would overlove someone. Again I'm not sure 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:56.040 it was loved, but I would overgive, and when someone 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.200 couldn't keep up with my rate of giving, I would 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.920 walk away. So you're looking for that. I was looking 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.240 for it back, Yeah, exactly. I was like, well, I'm 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:06.960 loving you, and it's so it was almost like I 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:08.920 was setting the standard of how much lover I was 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:13.760 going to give, and then if they didn't match my standard, 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.120 which I had made up anyway, they never even asked 0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:20.280 for it, then I would be upset. And that was 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:25.280 extremely unhealthy. Now I see that, because you end up 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:27.720 feeling like the victim and you end up feeling like 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:31.280 they wronged you, when in fact, you said a false 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:36.680 standard and hurt that person because that person was feeling 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:38.720 overly loved by you. And then the next thing you know, 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:41.480 you walked away and it's all over and they're wondering 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.400 what went wrong there too, And so I think there 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:48.439 was a lot of failed relationships where and again I'm 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.080 not saying that everyone I did it was perfect and 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.600 that I messed up in that way. There was you know, 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.280 there's obviously there's a lot of mutual responsibility. But I 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.320 think what happened in between was I became a monk. 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.480 Like that's the through line of how much of my 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.000 life where it's like, for three years, I didn't date. 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:08.360 I didn't I was celibate for three years. You don't 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:13.280 really interact with women when you're a monk. And I 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.200 think part of the reason why I did that was 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:19.400 because I've obviously simplified some of my experience of how 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.199 I was. But I also got to a place where 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.360 I couldn't keep a healthy relationship, like I didn't you know, 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.160 a long term relationship. There was something that would go wrong, 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:33.440 and I was just sick of relationships. I was like, 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.160 this isn't I just don't want to put in this 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:38.120 work for what reason? Like why am I putting in 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.000 all this work to try and make this thing work 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:45.640 with very little benefit? And I'd rather go and work 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.600 on myself and help the world or whatever it may 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:49.840 have been at the time, which we've talked about previously. 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.240 And so I think there was a part of me 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:56.800 that was just feeling like I don't know how to 0:13:56.840 --> 0:14:00.480 get a relationship right. Yeah, I think what happened in 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:05.080 between was spending three years on my own allowed me 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:09.800 to re clarify and reidentify what love was to me. 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.400 Not what love was to my family or in the 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:14.240 movies or to some of the people i'd met, but 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.319 what was love to me? What kind of relationship did 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.720 I want? And obviously, like living as a monk, even 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.200 though you're not dating, you develop a lot of good 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:27.160 skills for dating, like patience and commitment and discipline and 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:32.400 understanding and listening and mindfulness, and so there's so many 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.960 great skills that you gain that then become very useful 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.440 when you start dating. And so then, since I left 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.840 the monastery, the only person I've ever dated is my wife, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:45.040 and you know, we're all constantly working on things even today, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:49.520 but I definitely feel a lot more stability with her 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:52.840 than I've felt before, and a lot more commitment and 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.160 love there than I've felt before. And obviously that's a 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.080 lot to do with her as well, that's not just me, 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:03.960 but yeah, I think that's what changed it becoming a monk. Yeah, 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:05.800 and you mentioned, you know, as a monk. In the 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:08.480 three years you were a monk, and many people stay 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:12.960 monks until they leave this earth, right, And I'm understanding 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.600 that you're saying monks don't date monks or cellible, So 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.360 can you refresh my memory why that is? And it's 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.880 not just in one kind of monk, right, you see 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:28.000 this across cultural differentness. Yeah, so why is that? Can 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:32.280 you remind me? I mean, there's many different reasons, and 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.240 I can't speak from anyone beyond my tradition obviously, but 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.920 I would say that the number one reason is to 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:48.400 create a sense of focus and aligned energy. So if 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:52.760 we all believe that we have a certain amount of energy, 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:54.880 and the more things we add to that, the more 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:59.120 it takes away our energy in different directions. Now, being 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.520 celibate or get into a relationship is one of those, 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:03.320 but it's the same as having a career as a monkey. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.160 You don't have a job, right, And so it's the 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.080 same reasoning where it's like, well, what if all of 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.600 your energy was placed in self mastery and self realization 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.360 and you didn't use your energy for anything else or 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.480 anyone else or anyone else, would you not have the 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:23.520 opportunity to go deep into the self. And so it's 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:28.040 not about women or celibacy or like, it's not about 0:16:28.080 --> 0:16:30.720 the external idea of like some people are like, oh, 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.680 well money is bad and women are bad and that's 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:34.280 where you stay. And it's like, well, no, it's got 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.120 nothing to do with that. It's not like you don't 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:37.640 have a job because money is bad, or you don't 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:41.720 have a partner because you know a certain gender is bad. 0:16:41.760 --> 0:16:44.760 It's the idea that how could you limit all your 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.240 distractions or how could you limit all your focus as 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.440 an energy to the pursuit of self realization and anything 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:57.200 above the pursuit of self realization is seen as unimportant 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.760 at that stage of life, and I think there's beauty 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:03.760 in that. I think when I think about getting three 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.840 years of my life to have an exclusive focus on 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:10.560 self realization, I would say it works. And I would 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.760 think about this often. I'm like, when did people ever 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:16.439 in their lives have three days for self realization, let 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.439 alone three weeks, three months, or three years? And so 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:21.320 I think it worked. I think it was true. I 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:27.520 do believe that carving out exclusive time for yourself and 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:32.080 self realization is a beautiful commitment to yourself and you 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:33.840 don't have to go and become a monk to do it. 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:36.639 I think therapy is one way to do it and 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:38.960 is a great way to do that. Every week you're 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.679 carving out an hour or two hours for yourself and 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.320 understanding yourself, and so over years that will add up. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.320 And so I think that the idea of the concept 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:51.679 you don't have to become a monk to do it, 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.520 but the idea and the concept of investing your energy 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.800 exclusively in self realization is a healthy one. Thank you. 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:01.800 Thank you for t human detour, because you know, sometimes 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:06.960 clients may have this idea that therapists know everything about 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.400 all kinds of people. So sometimes I may ask you 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:13.040 to remind me why something is the way it was 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.639 in some peace of your life, because it helps me 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.440 understand you better as I seek to understand you better 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:21.280 as I accompany you through whatever it is that you're 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.480 trying to explore about yourself. So I really appreciate you 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.160 taking the time to help me understand that. Yeah, of course, 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.560 And in all of that I'm hearing like becoming a monk, 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:33.320 which we talked about previously, a large part of it 0:18:33.400 --> 0:18:36.280 was maybe you couldn't articulate it before you became one, 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.800 but after this journey, it was about being able to 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.480 validate yourself. Yes, and it sounds like all your early relationships, 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:46.560 you're really seeking this validation from someone else. Yeah. Yeah, 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:51.400 it was validation for because I guess I didn't like myself. 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.800 It was the idea of how do you buy someone's love? 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.480 Is it a fancy gift, is it a posh restaurant, 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:02.200 is it a is it me overdoing it for their 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.840 birthday when we barely know each other? Like what what 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:10.080 am I overcompensating for? And I'm overcompensating for the fact 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:14.400 that I'm not sure I think I'm worthy or I'm 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.280 not sure that I like myself enough, and I'm hoping 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.920 that this will win that person over and then we'll 0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:23.760 have that romantic love in the movies. And that was 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:25.879 the only way to get through to them was to 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:30.320 do these grand gestures. I've always been someone who considers 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:32.520 themselves to be someone and I still to this day 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:37.400 love grand gestures. And I've married someone who doesn't appreciate 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.919 grand gestures, and it took me ages to understand that. 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:42.840 And I think my wife, because I do love her 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.560 deeper than that, was one of the few people who's 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:48.280 been able to teach me that that grand gestures don't 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.480 equal love or are not the only way to show love, 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:57.160 because she didn't receive them with the glorification and adulation 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.960 of oh, you're amazing. She kind of received them as like, well, 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.040 I didn't really want this, or this is not this 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:05.560 doesn't really make me happy. And in my head when 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:08.440 we first started dating, it was like, well, you're weird. 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:10.960 You know, It's like, how can you not be happy? Look? 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:15.679 How incredible I am. Only to realize that again it 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.840 was still so even after being among even in our 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.639 early years of dating with me and my wife, I 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:23.680 still think I was And even till this day, I 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:27.280 think that is so deep rooted. That idea of love 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.679 is grand gestures. Love is this big thing, the idea 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:33.960 of overgiving. Like, I think it's so deep rooted. It 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.919 takes a long time to be aware. Let go be conscious. 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.000 You know, it doesn't just disappear right right, And you know, 0:20:40.119 --> 0:20:44.640 sometimes for some people, love is grand justice. And you're 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.399 kind of touching on something that a lot of people 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:51.800 would benefit from reminding themselves of. We or I as 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:55.560 an individual love and express love in a certain way, 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:58.399 and I feel love and I receive love in a 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.280 certain way. It's pretty unlikely that you will end up 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:05.280 with someone that speaks love and receives love in the 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:07.600 exact way that you do. So it's like being in 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:09.920 this long term relationship. It sounds like you and your 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.879 wife have navigated how can I express my love to 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.440 her in a way that she will receive it, because 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:17.120 a lot of people are like, well, this is how 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:19.199 I would like for someone to love me, So if 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.320 I keep doing that to her, she's going to like 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:23.919 it because I would like it. I think we're learning 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:27.120 that that is not love. Love is learning to express 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.399 it in the way that your partner receives it. And 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:31.639 I also realized that for me, the way I like 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:34.880 to receive love and give love is how my mom 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.000 gave me love. And so my mom would We've talked 0:21:38.040 --> 0:21:40.800 about my mom before. My mom would always save up 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.880 to buy me the one big gift I wanted every 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:46.040 year for my birthday. And we didn't have a lot 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:49.280 growing up, so she would save up and she knew 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:51.440 what I wanted, and she always knew what I wanted. 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.040 I didn't even have to tell her, she just knew. 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:57.040 And then on my birthday, I unwrapped this gift and 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.719 it would be exactly the thing that I wanted. And 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:02.600 that had been how I'd been loved. My mom did 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:05.159