1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: If you don't put in the effort to try to 2 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: recognize from where they're coming from and see it from 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: their perspective, you may never know and you may continue 4 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: living this life thinking that nobody really cares about me 5 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: because you're not stepping outside of yourself and so in relationship. 6 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,159 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, welcome back to this very special episode of 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: On Purpose. Thanks to our partners that Better Help for 8 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: this episode today, I'm joined with Hay Sue Joe, licensed 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: therapist and head of clinical operations at Better Help. Hey, everyone, 10 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: welcome back to Purpose. Thank you so much for coming 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: back to listen to today's episode. I'm so grateful that 12 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: you trust me. I'm so grateful that you value your 13 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: time here with On Purpose so much, and I want 14 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: you to know that I deeply value each and every 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: one of you that make time in your days and 16 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: your weeks to connect here. And as you know, I'm 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: always trying to come up with new ideas, creative ways 18 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: of helping you learn about your journey towards happiness, towards healing, 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: and towards health. And one of the ways I like 20 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: to do that is I love experiments, I always have, 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:18,399 Speaker 1: and I like doing things myself and putting myself in 22 00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: uncomfortable positions. And so one of the series that we 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: started off here was me going to therapy and doing 24 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,919 Speaker 1: a therapy session as an episode as a way to 25 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: show you how accessible it is, how simple it is, 26 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: how useful it can be, and also for you to 27 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: get to know me better as well. I really want 28 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: to be able to be more open with you. And 29 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: sometimes when I'm doing a four minute interview on TV, 30 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 1: or even if I do a podcast episode with someone else, 31 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: the conversation can seem very specific to what I'm talking about, 32 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: but not necessarily specific to me. So this is all 33 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: of you who would like to know a bit more 34 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: about me, learn a bit more about me and how 35 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: I ended up the way I did, but also encouraging 36 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: the conversation of how did you get to where you 37 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: are today? What is it about your life that you 38 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: can learn from or grow from and can serve you 39 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: differently if you thought about it differently. So I want 40 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: to give a big thanks to our incredible partners a 41 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: better help for this episode. Our incredible therapist. Hey Sue, 42 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: who's here with me today? Again, You've seen her in 43 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: three episodes before this, and this is our fourth episode 44 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: in this series, so make sure you go back and 45 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:25,679 Speaker 1: listen to the other three if you haven't already. Hey, Sue, 46 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing this again. Yeah, it's 47 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: always great to be with you. A And I feel 48 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: like after our first therapy session, I feel it's amazing 49 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: how you build a relationship with someone so quickly because 50 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: you're so vulnerable with someone. How do you use a 51 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: therapist monitor that relationship building? Because almost like as a patient, 52 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, this person's like kind of 53 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: like knows everything about me now, more than what some 54 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: of my friends may know about me. Not my closest friends, 55 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: but some friends and people start feeling close to their 56 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: therapist cause of vulnerability. How what's the professional line and 57 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: how do you maintain that because I can imagine a 58 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 1: lot of people start trusting you deeply. Man, I don't 59 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: know if you already know, but this is like a 60 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: focal point in the education of therapists and continuing education. 61 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 1: This thing you're talking about, you know, your your clients 62 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: begin to feel close to your Your clients will also 63 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: love you. Some of your clients will fall in love 64 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: with you. Sometimes you're the first person or one of 65 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: the only people. That gives them the experience of being 66 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: seen without criticism and judgment, which is like very rare 67 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: in today's modern world when we're trying to connect with people. 68 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: So managing this relationship that becomes very intimate is really 69 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 1: important to protect you, to protect the client. So people 70 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: will hear of things like the Code of Ethics, and 71 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: these exist to protect the public. Right. It's like, therapists 72 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: gain a lot of power in this relationship. I know 73 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: so much about you, but you don't really know anything 74 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: about me, and I could use that with my clients 75 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: to a huge advantage. So that is very dangerous, I think. 76 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: And so these codes of ethics ensure that we are 77 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: protecting our clients. We're managing our feelings about our clients, 78 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: the feelings that our clients develop about us. It has 79 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: a word, it's called transference, and the feelings that I 80 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: develop for you, that's countertransference. And these are things that 81 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,719 Speaker 1: we have to process and things that therapists are encouraged 82 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: to go to therapy for consult with other people throughout 83 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: their practice in order to keep things healthy, in order 84 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: to keep things in line with the goal, which is 85 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: to help you meet your ambitions and your goals. It's 86 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,600 Speaker 1: not about anything to do with what my emotional intentions 87 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: or my ego is, but it is something that we 88 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: are meant to be mindful to manage because there are 89 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: times where when you're not managing it, it turns into 90 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: a very messy situation. And you're like, folks have heard 91 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: of these things. You know, people can lose their license 92 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: because they've take an advantage of a client entered a 93 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: very personal relationship, which is a huge no no. So 94 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: for me, it's like just knowing and understanding your clients 95 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: will develop very strong feelings about and towards you, and 96 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: continuing to be the safe person that's responsible for establishing 97 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: healthy boundaries and making it very clear, like what is 98 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: this relationship that makes a lot of sense? Thank you 99 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: so much. I love that. All right, well, let's dive 100 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: in over to you again. I will hand over my 101 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: host hat to you to get into the zone. So 102 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: that's what I kind of am interested in talking about 103 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: today with you is relationships. So I don't know what 104 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: you're willing to share about that, but can you tell 105 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: me about what being in relationship means to you? And 106 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: like what is important about humans doing that? I think 107 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: having a relationship with anyone is is very sacred. If 108 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: you're both making time, sharing energy. You know, whether it's 109 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: my wife, whether it's one of my best friends, whether 110 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: it's a team member. I think about relationships as an 111 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: exchange of energy, and I want that energy that is 112 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: created and exchange to be positive and healthy for both people. 113 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: I also think about it as a safe space, and 114 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: hence I call it sacred. It's it's a safe space 115 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: that where you feel trusted, where you feel someone wants 116 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: to try to understand, and where you feel that your 117 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 1: openness will not be used against you or will not 118 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: be taken advantage of. And beyond all of that, there's 119 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: a sense of knowing. And when I say knowing, I 120 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: don't mean someone's a mind reader and they know what 121 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: you're thinking about. It's that as you start to talk 122 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: to that person, you know they know what you mean 123 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: and because they've had so many experiences with you. That's 124 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: how I see relationships today. But I think when I 125 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: was growing up, I think I was so in love 126 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: with the idea of love that I just wanted to 127 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 1: be in love. And I think a lot of that 128 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: came from just watching too many bad movies. I think 129 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: a lot of my initial ideas on love were based 130 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: on terrible movies that you see as a kid, whether 131 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: it's American Pie, Road Trip, tons of Bollywood movies too, 132 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: that Bollywood movies almost portrayed this really glamorous view of love, 133 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: and I think Hollywood movies at the time portrayed a 134 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: very lusty like view of love, and you kind of 135 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: get caught somewhere in between of like infatuation attraction and 136 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: then this glamorized version of love is where I think 137 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: I ended up. And so to me, I was always 138 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: wanting to be in love without knowing what it was, 139 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: without knowing what it required from the other person. I 140 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: just wanted to give love and be loving and have love. 141 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: And I think that led to a lot of issues 142 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: growing up when I first started dating, because when I 143 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: first started dating, I was around fourteen years old, and 144 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: I was kind of like that person who just went 145 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: above and beyond all the time with anyone, whether I 146 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: just met them or whether I'd known them for a while, 147 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:26,120 Speaker 1: and that was quite new for I guess the girls 148 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: that I was doing as well. We were all fairly young, 149 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 1: and so whether we were in our first relationships or 150 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: a second to have someone who was that overly giving 151 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: was quite People appreciated it, people liked it. But I 152 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: realized that I was doing it, and I realized this afterwards. 153 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: I was doing it because I just wanted them to 154 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: like me. It's not that I actually beyond being attracted 155 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: to them, or beyond being infatuated with them, or whatever 156 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: it may have been. I don't think I actually knew 157 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: anything about them, But I liked the idea of someone 158 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: that I felt attracted to liking me and validating me 159 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: and thinking I was a good person, and thinking that 160 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: I was special, and thinking that I was important. When 161 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: your mind is developing, this means your worldview is developing, 162 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: which will later turn into your personal philosophy. So many 163 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 1: things can impact it. So like, I'm not saying that 164 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: this is how people should live their lives, but personally, 165 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: I have witnessed so much and observed how detrimental it 166 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: is to engage in many things as a developing young mind, 167 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: whether that substance cannabis, alcohol, sex, like, these kinds of 168 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: things which are highly emotionally charged, when you don't even 169 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: understand what's happening to you, when your state of mind 170 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: is being altered. It's very difficult to reconcile that as 171 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: an adult. It like totally impacts you and you see 172 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: it now, Like there's so much research that shows kids 173 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: that do these things. I'm not saying it's caused, but 174 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot more prevalence of mental health 175 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: issues for kids that engage in these things versus kids 176 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: that don't. So what we're hearing is that it's it's 177 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: guaranteed that if you're in relationships in your teens, you're 178 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: going to go through a ton of pain. Either way, 179 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 1: we're going to make mistakes, Like it's likely that we're 180 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: going to make mistakes, and some of those mistakes become 181 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: really damaging and traumatic long term stay with you for 182 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: I remember that. So my parents never wanted me to 183 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: have a relationship until I was Ideally they would never 184 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: have wanted me to have a relationship until I was married, 185 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: And so I never told my parents when I was dating. 186 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: Like my parents who have no if my parents listened 187 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: to the episode, they have no idea that I've had 188 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: a girlfriend. They probably have some idea now, but like 189 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 1: they would never have known that I was dating at fourteen. Yeah, 190 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: and it became so much more attractive to me to 191 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: one a day because my parents didn't want me to day. 192 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: And then obviously in culture, you don't want to be 193 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: a loser again if you don't date. And so yeah, 194 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: it's just it's hard because I agree with you. I 195 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: think you wouldn't make as much mistakes, you wouldn't learn 196 00:10:55,320 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: as much. It it's complicated anyway. Parents sometimes they're not 197 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 1: conscious of why, why they're even setting that role. If 198 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: they could articulate it and if a fourteen year old 199 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: could understand it. It's like we're saying this out of 200 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: the wisdom of knowing that you are still absorbing the 201 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: world and we want you to absorb it in a 202 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: way that's inviting, welcoming, loving something that you can feel 203 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: is safe. But they don't always know how to say that. 204 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: It's just like no dating until you're married. Yeah, so powerful, 205 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for that. I love that you mentioned that 206 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: there's like a difference in how you view relationships then 207 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: versus now, Like can you tell me this is a 208 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: big question, but can you tell me, like what happened 209 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: to the in between, Like how did you get to 210 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: this place now of how you view relationships? Well, lots 211 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: of failed relationships that lots of heartbreak. What used to 212 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: happen was I would overlove someone. Again I'm not sure 213 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: it was loved, but I would overgive, and when someone 214 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: couldn't keep up with my rate of giving, I would 215 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: walk away. So you're looking for that. I was looking 216 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: for it back, Yeah, exactly. I was like, well, I'm 217 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 1: loving you, and it's so it was almost like I 218 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: was setting the standard of how much lover I was 219 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: going to give, and then if they didn't match my standard, 220 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: which I had made up anyway, they never even asked 221 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: for it, then I would be upset. And that was 222 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: extremely unhealthy. Now I see that, because you end up 223 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: feeling like the victim and you end up feeling like 224 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: they wronged you, when in fact, you said a false 225 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: standard and hurt that person because that person was feeling 226 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 1: overly loved by you. And then the next thing you know, 227 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: you walked away and it's all over and they're wondering 228 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: what went wrong there too, And so I think there 229 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: was a lot of failed relationships where and again I'm 230 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: not saying that everyone I did it was perfect and 231 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: that I messed up in that way. There was you know, 232 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: there's obviously there's a lot of mutual responsibility. But I 233 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: think what happened in between was I became a monk. 234 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 1: Like that's the through line of how much of my 235 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: life where it's like, for three years, I didn't date. 236 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: I didn't I was celibate for three years. You don't 237 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: really interact with women when you're a monk. And I 238 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: think part of the reason why I did that was 239 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: because I've obviously simplified some of my experience of how 240 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: I was. But I also got to a place where 241 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: I couldn't keep a healthy relationship, like I didn't you know, 242 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: a long term relationship. There was something that would go wrong, 243 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 1: and I was just sick of relationships. I was like, 244 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: this isn't I just don't want to put in this 245 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 1: work for what reason? Like why am I putting in 246 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: all this work to try and make this thing work 247 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: with very little benefit? And I'd rather go and work 248 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: on myself and help the world or whatever it may 249 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: have been at the time, which we've talked about previously. 250 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: And so I think there was a part of me 251 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,800 Speaker 1: that was just feeling like I don't know how to 252 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: get a relationship right. Yeah, I think what happened in 253 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: between was spending three years on my own allowed me 254 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: to re clarify and reidentify what love was to me. 255 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: Not what love was to my family or in the 256 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 1: movies or to some of the people i'd met, but 257 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: what was love to me? What kind of relationship did 258 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: I want? And obviously, like living as a monk, even 259 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: though you're not dating, you develop a lot of good 260 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: skills for dating, like patience and commitment and discipline and 261 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: understanding and listening and mindfulness, and so there's so many 262 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: great skills that you gain that then become very useful 263 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: when you start dating. And so then, since I left 264 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: the monastery, the only person I've ever dated is my wife, 265 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: and you know, we're all constantly working on things even today, 266 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: but I definitely feel a lot more stability with her 267 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: than I've felt before, and a lot more commitment and 268 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: love there than I've felt before. And obviously that's a 269 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: lot to do with her as well, that's not just me, 270 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, I think that's what changed it becoming a monk. Yeah, 271 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: and you mentioned, you know, as a monk. In the 272 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: three years you were a monk, and many people stay 273 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: monks until they leave this earth, right, And I'm understanding 274 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: that you're saying monks don't date monks or cellible, So 275 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: can you refresh my memory why that is? And it's 276 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: not just in one kind of monk, right, you see 277 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: this across cultural differentness. Yeah, so why is that? Can 278 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: you remind me? I mean, there's many different reasons, and 279 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: I can't speak from anyone beyond my tradition obviously, but 280 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: I would say that the number one reason is to 281 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: create a sense of focus and aligned energy. So if 282 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: we all believe that we have a certain amount of energy, 283 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 1: and the more things we add to that, the more 284 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: it takes away our energy in different directions. Now, being 285 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: celibate or get into a relationship is one of those, 286 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: but it's the same as having a career as a monkey. 287 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: You don't have a job, right, And so it's the 288 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: same reasoning where it's like, well, what if all of 289 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: your energy was placed in self mastery and self realization 290 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: and you didn't use your energy for anything else or 291 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: anyone else or anyone else, would you not have the 292 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: opportunity to go deep into the self. And so it's 293 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 1: not about women or celibacy or like, it's not about 294 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: the external idea of like some people are like, oh, 295 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: well money is bad and women are bad and that's 296 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 1: where you stay. And it's like, well, no, it's got 297 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 1: nothing to do with that. It's not like you don't 298 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: have a job because money is bad, or you don't 299 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: have a partner because you know a certain gender is bad. 300 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: It's the idea that how could you limit all your 301 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: distractions or how could you limit all your focus as 302 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: an energy to the pursuit of self realization and anything 303 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: above the pursuit of self realization is seen as unimportant 304 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: at that stage of life, and I think there's beauty 305 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: in that. I think when I think about getting three 306 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: years of my life to have an exclusive focus on 307 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: self realization, I would say it works. And I would 308 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: think about this often. I'm like, when did people ever 309 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: in their lives have three days for self realization, let 310 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: alone three weeks, three months, or three years? And so 311 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: I think it worked. I think it was true. I 312 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: do believe that carving out exclusive time for yourself and 313 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: self realization is a beautiful commitment to yourself and you 314 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: don't have to go and become a monk to do it. 315 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 1: I think therapy is one way to do it and 316 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: is a great way to do that. Every week you're 317 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: carving out an hour or two hours for yourself and 318 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: understanding yourself, and so over years that will add up. 319 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: And so I think that the idea of the concept 320 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: you don't have to become a monk to do it, 321 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: but the idea and the concept of investing your energy 322 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: exclusively in self realization is a healthy one. Thank you. 323 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: Thank you for t human detour, because you know, sometimes 324 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: clients may have this idea that therapists know everything about 325 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: all kinds of people. So sometimes I may ask you 326 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: to remind me why something is the way it was 327 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: in some peace of your life, because it helps me 328 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: understand you better as I seek to understand you better 329 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: as I accompany you through whatever it is that you're 330 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: trying to explore about yourself. So I really appreciate you 331 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: taking the time to help me understand that. Yeah, of course, 332 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,560 Speaker 1: And in all of that I'm hearing like becoming a monk, 333 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: which we talked about previously, a large part of it 334 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: was maybe you couldn't articulate it before you became one, 335 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 1: but after this journey, it was about being able to 336 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: validate yourself. Yes, and it sounds like all your early relationships, 337 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: you're really seeking this validation from someone else. Yeah. Yeah, 338 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: it was validation for because I guess I didn't like myself. 339 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: It was the idea of how do you buy someone's love? 340 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: Is it a fancy gift, is it a posh restaurant, 341 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 1: is it a is it me overdoing it for their 342 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: birthday when we barely know each other? Like what what 343 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: am I overcompensating for? And I'm overcompensating for the fact 344 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: that I'm not sure I think I'm worthy or I'm 345 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: not sure that I like myself enough, and I'm hoping 346 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,920 Speaker 1: that this will win that person over and then we'll 347 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: have that romantic love in the movies. And that was 348 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: the only way to get through to them was to 349 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: do these grand gestures. I've always been someone who considers 350 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: themselves to be someone and I still to this day 351 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 1: love grand gestures. And I've married someone who doesn't appreciate 352 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: grand gestures, and it took me ages to understand that. 353 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: And I think my wife, because I do love her 354 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: deeper than that, was one of the few people who's 355 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: been able to teach me that that grand gestures don't 356 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: equal love or are not the only way to show love, 357 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: because she didn't receive them with the glorification and adulation 358 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: of oh, you're amazing. She kind of received them as like, well, 359 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: I didn't really want this, or this is not this 360 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: doesn't really make me happy. And in my head when 361 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: we first started dating, it was like, well, you're weird. 362 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: You know, It's like, how can you not be happy? Look? 363 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: How incredible I am. Only to realize that again it 364 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: was still so even after being among even in our 365 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: early years of dating with me and my wife, I 366 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: still think I was And even till this day, I 367 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: think that is so deep rooted. That idea of love 368 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,679 Speaker 1: is grand gestures. Love is this big thing, the idea 369 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: of overgiving. Like, I think it's so deep rooted. It 370 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: takes a long time to be aware. Let go be conscious. 371 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't just disappear right right, And you know, 372 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,640 Speaker 1: sometimes for some people, love is grand justice. And you're 373 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,399 Speaker 1: kind of touching on something that a lot of people 374 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: would benefit from reminding themselves of. We or I as 375 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: an individual love and express love in a certain way, 376 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: and I feel love and I receive love in a 377 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: certain way. It's pretty unlikely that you will end up 378 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: with someone that speaks love and receives love in the 379 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: exact way that you do. So it's like being in 380 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: this long term relationship. It sounds like you and your 381 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,879 Speaker 1: wife have navigated how can I express my love to 382 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: her in a way that she will receive it, because 383 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, well, this is how 384 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: I would like for someone to love me, So if 385 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: I keep doing that to her, she's going to like 386 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 1: it because I would like it. I think we're learning 387 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: that that is not love. Love is learning to express 388 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: it in the way that your partner receives it. And 389 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 1: I also realized that for me, the way I like 390 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: to receive love and give love is how my mom 391 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: gave me love. And so my mom would We've talked 392 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: about my mom before. My mom would always save up 393 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: to buy me the one big gift I wanted every 394 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: year for my birthday. And we didn't have a lot 395 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: growing up, so she would save up and she knew 396 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 1: what I wanted, and she always knew what I wanted. 397 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: I didn't even have to tell her, she just knew. 398 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: And then on my birthday, I unwrapped this gift and 399 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 1: it would be exactly the thing that I wanted. And 400 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: that had been how I'd been loved. My mom did 401 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,159 Speaker 1: give me time and we did have beautiful experiences, but 402 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: I remember gifts being a big thing in my home. 403 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: And then when I married my wife, it's like, gifts 404 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: are like not important in her home, Like they spent 405 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: quality time with each other and they her dad would 406 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: take the day off on her birthday and they'd go 407 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 1: out or whatever it may be. And so to me, 408 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,439 Speaker 1: I couldn't get my head around how gifts couldn't be 409 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: important to someone because I was just like, gifts are 410 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 1: the best thing in the world, like, and it took 411 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: me a long time to also realize and even till 412 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: this day. Like one of the members of my team 413 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: brought me a gift for my birthday. My birthday was 414 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: a couple of months ago, and she found something that 415 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: I didn't need, I didn't want, but it was it 416 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: was like I felt of understanding. I was like, and 417 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,360 Speaker 1: it was a new pair of shoes that were really 418 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: cool and they were this cool collab and they were 419 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: a bit rare, and I was like, this person, like 420 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: this stands me so well, and it was it's a 421 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: long time since I've received a gift that felt that way, 422 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: And it wasn't because of how much it cost. It 423 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't about It wasn't any of the It 424 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: wasn't grand because it was big or expensive. It was 425 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: grand because it was so thought through, like it was 426 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: the right pair of shoes. And I was like, that 427 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: was beautiful. And then a few years ago I had 428 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: a person in my life send me a life magazine 429 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: like the old ones that I don't think are in 430 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: print anymore, and it was signed about the Dali Lama 431 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: and they send that to me as a gift, and 432 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: I was like, this is the best gift ever, Like 433 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: this person understands me. And so I started to realize 434 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: that even my love for gifts wasn't because I wanted something. 435 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: It was because a gift made me feel understood, right, 436 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: it was it was That's what I was looking for, 437 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: was a sense of you know me, the sense you 438 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: got when your mom gave me that gift that she 439 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: knew what you wanted and needed. You didn't even have 440 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: to say it, yeah, she just like could see into you. Yeah. 441 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,160 Speaker 1: Only realizing that that's very hard to do and putting 442 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: that pressure on my wife was not smart because it 443 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: takes a while for people to get to know you, 444 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: and you know, it takes a while for people to 445 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: know what kind of gifts you want. And also she 446 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: was learning at the same time, she was learning that 447 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: I needed gifts because in her eyes, spending good time 448 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 1: with each other was the gift. And in my head, 449 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,959 Speaker 1: I was like, no, like the gifts the gift, and 450 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: time together is not the gift. And so it's really 451 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 1: interesting when two people are learning something at the same time. 452 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: And it's hard because when you're both learning the same 453 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: thing at the same time, you just like, you know, 454 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: knocking against each other. Yeah, finding that person, finding your person, 455 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: whether that's like your person of the season or your 456 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: person for the rest of your life. You're bringing together 457 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: two most likely very different families of origin. And it's 458 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 1: like your world view is shaped by the people that 459 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,360 Speaker 1: raise you, and so you're touching on all these things. 460 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: You know, this is the way that I received love 461 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: from my mom. So this is the way that as 462 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: a small child becomes deeply ingrained in me at how 463 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: people are supposed to receive it too. And it sounds 464 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: like she had a different experience and like you said, 465 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 1: navigating and learning these things at the same time, much 466 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: more difficult than when you have like an apprentice and 467 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: somebody mentoring them, somebody knows something. But oftentime in relationships, 468 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,479 Speaker 1: you're realizing together like hmm, I don't actually know anything 469 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,679 Speaker 1: and neither to you, but we're trying to figure that 470 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: out while we're getting to know each other. Yeah, all 471 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: with this like deep desire and need to be seen. 472 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: That's so much of being loved. Yeah. Yeah, And I 473 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: found that I would often overlove my wife and then 474 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 1: make her feel guilty for not loving me the same 475 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,959 Speaker 1: keeping tabs, keeping tabs. Yeah, can you give me an 476 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: example of overloving I would do something spontaneous like plan 477 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: a weekend activity or whatever it may be, But then 478 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 1: if she doesn't plan something the next weekend, I'm mad 479 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: at her and it's like that's you know, now, it 480 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,120 Speaker 1: sounds stupid saying it, but it's like at that time 481 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: it felt really real, where it's like why are you're 482 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,119 Speaker 1: not doing it back? But I haven't said I want that, 483 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: I haven't expressed that I need that. She was just 484 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: supposed to know. She was just supposed to know, and 485 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: she was just supposed to get it. And if I've 486 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: thought about it, how come she can't think about the 487 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: next thing, and it was like, and you just feel 488 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: you're so right, Like I think that's what's so hard 489 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: talking about it now, I'm like, I can see why 490 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: it's wrong, but when you're in that position, you feel 491 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: like it's so right where you're like, but I'm doing 492 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: all of this for us, and what do you do? 493 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: And I think I've always felt that way, Like that's 494 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 1: always been like a very deep rooted feeling of like 495 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: I do I work so hard for this relationship, but 496 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: I don't think you do. And I saw this really 497 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: incredible image on social media today and it was inspiring 498 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: a story in me. I was like this this, you know, 499 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: this could be a story, but it's like imagine. Imagine 500 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: you're on a like a vacation and you're on a 501 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: really high mountain to up and unfortunately your partner slips 502 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: and falls and you go to grab them and you 503 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: thankfully you catch hold of them so they don't fall off. 504 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: And what ends up happening after that is one of 505 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: the rocks from behind you falls on your leg while 506 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: you're holding onto their hand, and a snake was going 507 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: up their legs. So this is the image that was 508 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: on social media. It was asking for the reflection of 509 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 1: the person being held is thinking why doesn't my partner 510 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: just lift me up, not realizing that that partner has 511 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: a rock on their leg, and the partner with the 512 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,119 Speaker 1: rock on their leg is thinking, well, why doesn't this 513 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: person just lift their own weight a little bit, we 514 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: could do the help, not realizing that there's a snake 515 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:50,360 Speaker 1: at their leg and they're scared of moving. And the 516 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: piece of art and whoever poster was trying to get 517 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: that question of, like, that's kind of what relationships are 518 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: like sometimes. How do you know whether your partner is 519 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: actually putting an effort into a relationship and putting in work. 520 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,200 Speaker 1: If you're someone that constantly feels like you're you are 521 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: putting in the work, but you don't think they are, 522 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,200 Speaker 1: how do you know whether you're right or whether you're 523 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: not right? How do you know anything? But you know 524 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: when you were describing like having planned this great weekend 525 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: and then expecting for someone else to return that gesture 526 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: and do the same thing, and then having the experience 527 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: of feeling like I put in so much work and 528 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:37,160 Speaker 1: you haven't that mindset and that person is not tuning 529 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: in to pay attention to how that other person is 530 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: showing up and is doing that work. So it's like, 531 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: to answer that question, how do you know? If you 532 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: don't put in the effort to try to recognize from 533 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: like where they're coming from and see it from their perspective, 534 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: you may never know, and you may continue living this 535 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: life thinking that, like, nobody really cares about me because 536 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: you're not upping outside of yourself and so in relationship, 537 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,120 Speaker 1: not just with like a romantic partner, but even your friends, 538 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: your family, colleagues, teammates, Like, you're depriving yourself of the 539 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: next level of connection by only thinking of it the 540 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: way from your stance, from your perspective. So I flip 541 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: that question back to you. It's like, how did you know? 542 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: How did you come to realize that she also loves 543 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: you very deeply when she wasn't getting you these big gifts. Yeah, no, 544 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: I mean it's exactly that you hit the nail on 545 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: the head. It it was me starting to look at 546 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: how she contributed to the relationship, and I started to 547 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: realize there were so many ways she contributed to a 548 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: healthy relationship. It was She's the only person I've ever 549 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: been with who is extremely secure in herself and trusts 550 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: me and doesn't make me feel like She's never made 551 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,719 Speaker 1: me feel like she doesn't trust me. And that's a 552 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: massive gift in a relationship, Like the idea that my 553 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,680 Speaker 1: partner trusts me. I think that's a beautiful thing. When 554 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: things were tough, when we were struggling, and when we 555 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: were going through financial difficulties and everything like that, she 556 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: was fully there with me and was like, I trust you, 557 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm there with you, like whatever help you need. You know, 558 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: those were huge gifts in the relationship. I think even 559 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: when I first met her, you know, i'd left the 560 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,480 Speaker 1: monastery like a year before that or less than a 561 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:21,360 Speaker 1: year before that, and I didn't have a plan or 562 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: I didn't have like my life figured out, and I 563 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: didn't even have a job when we first started dating, 564 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: and she was okay with that, and I was like, 565 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: you know, there are so many huge gifts here that 566 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: I missed out on because I was looking at it 567 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: from this singular perspective of why doesn't she do this? 568 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: And that is exactly what I had to do, And 569 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: even till this day, I feel sometimes I have to 570 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: do that because those deep rooted ideas are so strong 571 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, what does my wife contribute to 572 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: this relationship? When you find there's so many things, but 573 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: you can very much live in a self centered world 574 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 1: of I'm the only one who contributes to this relationship. 575 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: And I think we're scared of noticing how other people 576 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: contribute because we're so attached to them contributing how we contribute, 577 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: and we're scared that it almost makes us weak. Like 578 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: I guess we don't want to be in a situation 579 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: where they're doing more than we are, because we see 580 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: that's what relationships are about. It's about doing equal for 581 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: each other. Whereas I've realized that I don't think the 582 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: relationship me and my wife have today is that we 583 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: do equal for each other. We just do different things 584 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,840 Speaker 1: right for each other. For folks that are out there 585 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: still thinking that relationships about equal, work, to be able 586 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 1: to calculate that it's equal still means you're keeping tabs, 587 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: you're still like trying to keep some kind of score. 588 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 1: And that is where a lot of resentment grows and 589 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 1: a lot of pain and a lot of like expectation. 590 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: There's this idea that people talk about in therapy two 591 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: of like the way that we react to our own feelings, 592 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: or we react to other people. It comes from one 593 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: of two places. It's like, either we're reacting because we're 594 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,719 Speaker 1: fearful of something, so we're trying to avoid or prevent something, 595 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 1: or we're reacting out of love. Love for ourselves, love 596 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: for the person, love for the situation in itself, which 597 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: means acceptance of what it is. And you know that's 598 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: like a truly loving relationship, right, Is that you're not 599 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: behaving from fear of rejection, fear of oh, she doesn't 600 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: love me as much as I love her, Like that 601 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, isn't there? It sounds like you just 602 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 1: like had this knowing that she's there for you, I'm 603 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: there for her the trust. Yeah, And I think that 604 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: what you just said. I think there's such a fine 605 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: line between that I do things out of fear and 606 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: I do things out of love because a lot of 607 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,680 Speaker 1: the times things that we think look like love are 608 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 1: actually just fear in disguise. So you're like, I can, 609 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: I can? You know, sometimes like you want to plan 610 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: a big birthday not because you love the person, but 611 00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: because you're scared that they'll be sad. Like that's not love, Like, 612 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: is it? Or is it is that, like you know, 613 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: it's it's almost like are you basing your intention on 614 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: you want them to be happy or you don't want 615 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: them to be mad? And sometimes we sometimes we create 616 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 1: that and other people too, where I've had past relationships 617 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: where I did things because I was scared of them. 618 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: I was scared of what would happen if they got angry, 619 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,200 Speaker 1: and therefore you keep doing the thing. Now, you mentioned 620 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: like overloving, overcompensating, So maybe one of these past relationships 621 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: or some like what can you recall about something that 622 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: you were overcompensating for from fear? I guess a lot 623 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: of it is just staying in a situation that doesn't 624 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,880 Speaker 1: like I remember, I had one relationship where I'd turned 625 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: up on time, I'd made a plan, I'd come up 626 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: with a right evening, and the person would not appreciate 627 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: the plan. They would disrupt the plan, they would want 628 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: to go home early. We drive home, and they wouldn't 629 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: talk to me home the whole way. And then you 630 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: do that week after week after week because you just 631 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 1: didn't want to let them down. And so you're not 632 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: doing that because you love them, You're doing it because 633 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 1: you're scared that you're going to lose them. But then 634 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: it's like, why would you be scared of losing someone 635 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 1: like that? But you get wrapped up in that belief 636 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: that you upset them some way, like you did something wrong. 637 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: And I mean, at least with that one, I realized 638 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: that I wasn't doing anything wrong. But it's really interesting 639 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: how you work differently when you have high confidence in 640 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: a relationship versus low confidence. And I think in the 641 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: beginning stages when I've had low confidence in relationships, because 642 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,439 Speaker 1: you want the other person to like you, you'll keep 643 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: tolerating bad behavior because you want to be liked so 644 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: bad and you're only acting in a nice way because 645 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,359 Speaker 1: you're scared of losing them because you think that them 646 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: being with you is the only reason that you're liked. 647 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: Does that make sense as an example, Yeah, And you know, 648 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: if you're entering or trying to maintain a relationship and 649 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,479 Speaker 1: you have low self esteem, you don't have very high 650 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,799 Speaker 1: confidence in yourself. A lot of people have described just 651 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,560 Speaker 1: will anybody ever want to be with me? So it's 652 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,880 Speaker 1: like this might be the last person that I have 653 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: a chance for, So I can't ruin it because I 654 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,879 Speaker 1: don't want to be alone, like so many people don't 655 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 1: want to be alone. We fear that. There's a metaphor 656 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:30,799 Speaker 1: I think of is just like, you know, we have 657 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: these glasses here, and when you enter a relationship, you're 658 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: coming in with a glass, and if you're coming in 659 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: with an empty one, you kind of have this like 660 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,360 Speaker 1: very parched expectation for the other person to fill it 661 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 1: for you. And to constantly expect someone else to fill 662 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 1: it for you means they are depleting their own. But 663 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,720 Speaker 1: you know, when you both come with a full glass 664 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 1: and there is no expectation to fill that for each other, 665 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 1: now you can love out of the abundance of having 666 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: it for yourself. Yeah, and now this like need or 667 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: expectation to fill it isn't there. It's just now we're 668 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: like two full people, two whole people that can live 669 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,160 Speaker 1: life together, navigate life together, grow together. If that's something 670 00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:14,919 Speaker 1: that's important to you, be content together, if that's what's 671 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,879 Speaker 1: important to you. You know, the early relationship, it really 672 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,360 Speaker 1: sounds like you were coming into it with glass empty. 673 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,800 Speaker 1: I also think at that age I just love the 674 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: chase too. I think there was something about like that 675 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: proving to someone that you were worthy. I think there 676 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 1: was something about that was interesting. Was it the chase, 677 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: like something about that pursuit that's interesting, Or do you 678 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: think you got like reinforced when you finally got this 679 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: thing that you were chasing, or I think it comes 680 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,240 Speaker 1: back to the it's come back kind of like gift 681 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: mentality too. It's like when you see someone as a 682 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,319 Speaker 1: thing to get right, Like it's the idea of And 683 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: that's what gift mindset is worrying sometimes because you your 684 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: constantly work and that I've definitely like when I unpacked 685 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: that I really I really realized that I loved the 686 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: element of surprise. I love surprises. I genuinely love surprises 687 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: till this day. And I realized that anyone could have 688 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,439 Speaker 1: the opportunity to surprise me in a loving, conscientious way. 689 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: So like I feel like the idea of like saving 690 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: up for the thing you want and then when you 691 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 1: get it, you're like, it wasn't that great anyway. And 692 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: I think we all feel that way with things. Things 693 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 1: never live up to their height. The joy and the 694 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: pleasure of a thing is very short lived. We know that, 695 00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: but sometimes I think we're programmed to believe that relationships 696 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 1: and people are like that as well, where it's like, well, 697 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: once you get that person, then you'll be happy, and 698 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: you you almost treat it like a achievement. And I 699 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,400 Speaker 1: think that in my teens that was definitely there, and 700 00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: I needed some people who were pro rejectors, were professional 701 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: rejecting me to help me learn that that didn't always work, 702 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: Like that wasn't a good path to take. We're saying, 703 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: like the neural transmitter dopamine, Like dopamine is something that's 704 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: released when something good happens, like when we're our reward 705 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: receptors in our brain, like getting the thing that we 706 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: were pursuing, and we do feel good, but it's momentary 707 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: and it's like it's our bodies like training us to 708 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,760 Speaker 1: continue pursuing good stuff because we want to feel good. 709 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: But then in a long lasting partnership and relationship, a 710 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 1: lot of times it doesn't feel good. So can you 711 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,839 Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about like relationships when it 712 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: doesn't feel good, how do you know that you're supposed 713 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: to keep going? Like what makes it worth fighting for? 714 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 1: That's even a strange term for it. Yeah, that's no. 715 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: I've thought about that a lot, actually, because I'd said 716 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,359 Speaker 1: that my marriage right now is the only relationship I've 717 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: ever worked beyond that point. And I realized that there 718 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: were so many relationships earlier in my life that I 719 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: just tapped out of because I was like, I don't 720 00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: want to do this anymore, Like why are we wasting 721 00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: our time? Why are we doing this? I think there's 722 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,839 Speaker 1: a couple of things. I think one is that the 723 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: other person also wants to work on it in a 724 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,319 Speaker 1: real way, So you want to work on it and 725 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: the other person wants to work on it. I think 726 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: what I found in previous relationships is I didn't want 727 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: to work on it, and someone says they want to 728 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,160 Speaker 1: work on it, but they don't really want to work 729 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: on it and themselves. And I think that's the question. 730 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: It's like, am I willing to work on myself for 731 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: this person? It's not am I willing to work on 732 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: this relationship? It's am I willing to work on myself 733 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,799 Speaker 1: for this person? And is that person willing to work 734 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: on themselves for me? And I think that's where I 735 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: feel with my wife right now. I'm like, at this 736 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,439 Speaker 1: point in our relationship, I know she wants to work 737 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,719 Speaker 1: on herself for me. Is she'll say that? And I 738 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: know I want to work on myself for her. So 739 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: that's one thing that I definitely have looked for. And 740 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:50,759 Speaker 1: I've seen that difference in past relationships in this relationship, 741 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: in past relationships where I didn't work out or where 742 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: you didn't push through, it's because ultimately, I felt, no 743 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,840 Speaker 1: matter what I did, this person would never be convinced 744 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,280 Speaker 1: I loved them. So I dated a lot of people 745 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,759 Speaker 1: that I felt that even if I did what they 746 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,719 Speaker 1: wanted me to do, and even if I tried my 747 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: best to love them in the way they want to 748 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: be loved, they still were unconvinced that I loved them 749 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 1: as well, because to them, they were still going through 750 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,839 Speaker 1: that process of filling their cup. So no matter how 751 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: much I filled their cup, they always felt thirsty or 752 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: they felt parched, and I was just like, Okay, so 753 00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: this doesn't make any sense because no matter what I do, 754 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: this person would never be convinced. So I can't keep 755 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 1: working on this. Whereas within my current relationship today, I'm like, 756 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,320 Speaker 1: Raley doesn't demand a lot, and she's quite full already, 757 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 1: and I think I'm the same back with her, and 758 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:50,920 Speaker 1: so it's kind of like a sense of like, oh, well, 759 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 1: everything's a bonus, like everything's exciting, everything's fresh all when 760 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:00,360 Speaker 1: things are tough, let's get back to figuring out what 761 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: is it that currently is making things tough. But there's 762 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,759 Speaker 1: an underlying feeling of you love me enough and I 763 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: love you enough, if that makes sense. There's not a 764 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: sense of feeling that emptiness, and I think there's just 765 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: an open space to talk about it without judgment. And 766 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: they're getting ugly, Like I have like difficult conversations with 767 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,239 Speaker 1: my wife, and I'll say to her, like I have 768 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 1: a rule that since we've been together, I always say 769 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:32,719 Speaker 1: to him, like, if the relationship is not going in 770 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: a direction we both wanted to, I want you to 771 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: tell me, and I'll tell you. And so I've sat 772 00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 1: down with it, and I'd be like, I don't like 773 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 1: where this relationship is going right now, Like this isn't 774 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: the relationship by one? Is it the relationship you one? 775 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: If it isn't, what are you willing to get it 776 00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: to where you want it to be? And if it isn't, 777 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: what am I willing to get it to where we 778 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 1: want it to be? And what do we want it 779 00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: to be? And so I think we have that conversation 780 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: regularly like you know, at least once or twice a year, 781 00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: because you're naturally going to go off track, like that's 782 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 1: you can never just be on track. And I think 783 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: in other relationships, not only did we assume we'd always 784 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 1: be on track, I think when we went off track, 785 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,319 Speaker 1: we were very unhealthy. And how we talked about it, 786 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 1: and at least with my wife, I think there's a 787 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,919 Speaker 1: sense of humility from both sides in saying we got 788 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:28,399 Speaker 1: this wrong, let's try again, let's shift this, And so 789 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,839 Speaker 1: I think a sense of lack of ego makes it 790 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 1: easier to work on it continuously, whereas if you both 791 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,319 Speaker 1: did just have an ego all the time that you're 792 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,640 Speaker 1: doing everything right and the other person's wrong, then that 793 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: discourages a relationship. And this is where this like cliche 794 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 1: thing of like, oh well, my therapist said that I 795 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 1: need to use eye statements. So if folks have heard 796 00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 1: of this, it's like this comes from coming into maybe 797 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,200 Speaker 1: like a emotionally charged topic with someone you really care about, 798 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: and not starting with the you did this, you make 799 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,120 Speaker 1: me do this, you make me feel this like you 800 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: are whatever. That's like very like blame centric language, and 801 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,239 Speaker 1: you mentioned humility. It's like coming into the conversation like 802 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,680 Speaker 1: humbled by. I'm not going to put actions and intentions 803 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 1: in your mouth. I'm just going to show up with 804 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 1: how I feel about it. And that's what I statements are, 805 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,359 Speaker 1: I feel so and so when you do this, I 806 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 1: would like when so and so, I am expressing what 807 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,440 Speaker 1: my needs are and this is what I think you 808 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:38,319 Speaker 1: can do to help me meet those two And that's 809 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,320 Speaker 1: that's where that thing comes from, right that I statements, 810 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,800 Speaker 1: it's it's very important to show up as you, not 811 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 1: you are the one that's going to make this all better. Yeah. Yeah, 812 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 1: I've I've always had my own little version of that. 813 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: I've always said, instead of you and me, use us 814 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 1: and we. And so when I'm thinking about constructively moving 815 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:03,279 Speaker 1: away from the conflict or moving moving forward with it, 816 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:07,319 Speaker 1: I'd always say, what are we willing to do for 817 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:12,120 Speaker 1: this relationship? And what is something that's important to both 818 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,399 Speaker 1: of us? And that way now where a team we're 819 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: working on it together, where we're solving this, rather than like, well, 820 00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,480 Speaker 1: you make me feel like this and you do this 821 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,399 Speaker 1: wrong or you and it's almost like saying, well, there's 822 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:31,479 Speaker 1: no responsibility on my end, whereas I often go we're 823 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: pretty much both struggling with this. How are you struggling 824 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: with it? Right, and then giving the opportunity but then 825 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: going we're both struggling with this. It's not like a 826 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,040 Speaker 1: you and me, it's and so I think shirking responsibility 827 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: has always been hard to build with someone who you 828 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,960 Speaker 1: feel is just always making it your fault or you're 829 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,439 Speaker 1: making it their fault. I don't think you can get 830 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:57,480 Speaker 1: past that after a couple of years, because it's hard, 831 00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,400 Speaker 1: you know. And I think with my wife too, I 832 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: think we if we have a fall into those patterns, 833 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,480 Speaker 1: we're constantly trying to say okay, okay, wait we can 834 00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: see ourselves moving into that pattern and then try and 835 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,319 Speaker 1: come back. All the other side is you just get 836 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: numb from everything right Like that I think is also unhealthy, 837 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: where you don't feel anything about anything, you're just indifferent, 838 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:23,359 Speaker 1: and that's not a loving relationship either. So I think 839 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,879 Speaker 1: some people may not experience extreme conflict, but I think 840 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,719 Speaker 1: some people extreme experience indifference where you don't feel any 841 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: different whatever happens with your partner. Man, You're right, Indifference 842 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: apathy in a relationship I think is sometimes even more 843 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:43,920 Speaker 1: like slippery slope dangerous than having hateful feelings towards your partner, 844 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,279 Speaker 1: because that means you still have song and a passion there. 845 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: I really like what you're saying about using this WEE 846 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 1: language versus you versus me, because this is something that 847 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,959 Speaker 1: people can expect in couples therapy. Also is you come 848 00:45:55,960 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 1: in and you start learning how to reframe you versus me, 849 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 1: I versus you. It's we versus the problem, right, And 850 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:06,680 Speaker 1: so I really like that, and I tend to use 851 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: that kind of language with my clients, like when I'm 852 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: trying to express something to help my client feel like 853 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,880 Speaker 1: they're not alone in the struggle. You know, I'm going 854 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,839 Speaker 1: to do a lot of things to try to normalize. 855 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,160 Speaker 1: This is like this experience of helping the client feel 856 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:22,640 Speaker 1: like they're not the only person in the world to 857 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,640 Speaker 1: experience this. So I don't always say, like, yeah, people 858 00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 1: experience anxiety that way. I say, we experience anxiety in 859 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,520 Speaker 1: that way. We tend to and then the list off 860 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 1: whatever symptoms people have. So I like this idea of 861 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,720 Speaker 1: bringing some attention to the collective experience of us. And 862 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: you know, it's like really easy to want to just 863 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: go the I me route, especially in Western cultures. This 864 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:47,480 Speaker 1: is a way that we're raised, This is a way 865 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,360 Speaker 1: that we're socialized to be an independent, unique and individual, 866 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,839 Speaker 1: which those things are great, especially in relationship. There isn't us, 867 00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: There isn't we. We're doing this here. We're choosing each 868 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,480 Speaker 1: other every day, which is not easy. Yeah, And I 869 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,240 Speaker 1: think I realized that exactly what you're saying during actually 870 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: the week of my wedding. And you know, I know 871 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,720 Speaker 1: a lot of friends, family team members that are preparing 872 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,720 Speaker 1: for a wedding right now, and I don't think everyone 873 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,600 Speaker 1: talks about enough openly how stressful weddings are. Where weddings 874 00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:23,000 Speaker 1: are meant to be the best day of your life, 875 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 1: They're meant to be all these exciting things, and they are, 876 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,440 Speaker 1: but they also have a lot of stress leading up 877 00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: to them. The week of I remember, you know, everyone 878 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,960 Speaker 1: has so many opinions and family wants you to do 879 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:35,719 Speaker 1: it this way, and the other family wants you to 880 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,959 Speaker 1: do this way, and both people are holding together their 881 00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:42,680 Speaker 1: families opinions and values and rituals and traditions as well 882 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: as their own, and it can be a really I 883 00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,399 Speaker 1: feel like marriages nearly break people up because they're so 884 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: intense and stressful, and I remember saying that exacting to 885 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 1: rather the week we got married, where I was just like, 886 00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:58,400 Speaker 1: this is how it's always going to be. There's always 887 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,080 Speaker 1: going to be so many people who have opinions about 888 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 1: how we should do this and how we should have 889 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,839 Speaker 1: done that, and more importantly, people are going to tell 890 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,279 Speaker 1: you how I should be different and people are going 891 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: to tell me how you should be different. And I 892 00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,800 Speaker 1: was like, the only two people that need to agree 893 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,879 Speaker 1: on me and you, and then we need to make 894 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:19,520 Speaker 1: sense of everything else that's going on because and if 895 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,440 Speaker 1: we don't set that habit now, we're going to constantly 896 00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:25,680 Speaker 1: be lost and struggling. And I think that was the 897 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,080 Speaker 1: week where we were able to admit that there were 898 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,040 Speaker 1: people in our lives that wanted what was best for 899 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 1: us according to them, but not best for us, and 900 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:38,400 Speaker 1: we were the only ones who could decide what is 901 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,160 Speaker 1: best for us by knowing ourselves and knowing each other. 902 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,319 Speaker 1: And yeah, I just think all of these experiences in 903 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,960 Speaker 1: life are helping you get there, but you have to 904 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 1: use them as a way of not looking at it 905 00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: as me versus you, as you said, you have to 906 00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,319 Speaker 1: look at it as like, well, what can we learn 907 00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:59,799 Speaker 1: from this? What can we grow from this? What are 908 00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,360 Speaker 1: we to solve with this? And I think that's constantly 909 00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,560 Speaker 1: been my approach, at least in my post month life, 910 00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: of whenever there's an issue, it isn't their problem or 911 00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:10,920 Speaker 1: my problem. And I think that's the issue, right. You 912 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,759 Speaker 1: literally have to obliterate that thought after time where it's like, 913 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,160 Speaker 1: this isn't a you issue or me issue. This is 914 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: something we are dealing with and how do we figure 915 00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,799 Speaker 1: it out? And I think if you say that the 916 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:25,320 Speaker 1: other person doesn't want to figure it out or doesn't 917 00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,279 Speaker 1: see it, that's where you start going. Well, I don't 918 00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:31,319 Speaker 1: know where this is going, because I think there has 919 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,000 Speaker 1: to be a collective responsibility. It's just like it's a 920 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:38,400 Speaker 1: huge metaphor here. It's not just about our spouse or 921 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,000 Speaker 1: a romantic partner. It's like so much of what you're 922 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:45,960 Speaker 1: reflecting on would be so helpful for society as a whole. Right, 923 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,319 Speaker 1: if we all could adopt some more of this us 924 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:53,799 Speaker 1: versus the problem mentality, I think that would be really 925 00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,320 Speaker 1: really helpful for a lot of people. And it seems 926 00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,759 Speaker 1: like this is like a value and a notion that 927 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 1: I think that you try to have an impact on. Yeah, 928 00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 1: I think it's easier to choose a side. It's easy 929 00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,879 Speaker 1: to pick a side and stick with it, and pick 930 00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:15,520 Speaker 1: a story and stick with it. It's harder to hold 931 00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:21,800 Speaker 1: two seemingly opposite ideas and figure out how they connect 932 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,840 Speaker 1: and how they correlate. But I think that all of 933 00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,440 Speaker 1: us would agree that if you look at any relationship 934 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 1: in your life, you know you had something to do 935 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:34,200 Speaker 1: with it and the other person has something to do 936 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,880 Speaker 1: with it. I don't think there's ever been anything in 937 00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 1: the world that is completely one sided until it gets 938 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,160 Speaker 1: you know that. I mean, I'll check that back. I 939 00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:45,680 Speaker 1: think there may be certain things that are completely one sided, 940 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 1: and you have to be aware of those and be 941 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: careful of those in your own relationships. But I can 942 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,600 Speaker 1: definitely say in my life at least, that most things 943 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,759 Speaker 1: have been two sided, and you can see two hands 944 00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,040 Speaker 1: in all of it. Yeah, and you know the I 945 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:03,560 Speaker 1: versus you mentality. It's like, sometimes it feels like it's 946 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:08,120 Speaker 1: emotionally easier to take that path because I'm putting guards 947 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:12,960 Speaker 1: up and protecting myself from whatever the US we mentality. 948 00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 1: Like you said, it means that you have to own up, 949 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:19,080 Speaker 1: to take accountability for your part in this, which can 950 00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 1: be very uncomfortable for people. It's very painful sometimes to 951 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: confront this idea that you're not always making the best choices, 952 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: that you have done things that are hurtful to people. 953 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,160 Speaker 1: A lot of us just like don't want to admit that. 954 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:36,320 Speaker 1: We think it puts you in a position of weakness, 955 00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:41,399 Speaker 1: and yes, with a unhealthy partner, it does, right, And 956 00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,640 Speaker 1: I think that's part of how you know where it's 957 00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:48,239 Speaker 1: like if you disclose vulnerably, hey I think I messed 958 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:50,919 Speaker 1: this up, let's talk about it, and they're like, yeah, look, 959 00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:52,360 Speaker 1: you know you already know you messed it up, like 960 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,360 Speaker 1: you got it wrong like that. If someone uses that 961 00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,600 Speaker 1: in that way, then yeah, that is that can be 962 00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,320 Speaker 1: a hunhealthy relationship. Whereas if someone goes, I'm glad you 963 00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,320 Speaker 1: noticed that, but I know I'm responsible for this too. 964 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:08,480 Speaker 1: There's something that can be built there, and I think 965 00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,440 Speaker 1: you need someone and not everyone can do that in 966 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:12,200 Speaker 1: the moment. Not everyone's going to do that when you're 967 00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:13,719 Speaker 1: having the fight. Now everyone's going to do that in 968 00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,759 Speaker 1: the argument. Sometimes people need more time and knowing that 969 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:20,360 Speaker 1: is important too, because not everyone in the moment is 970 00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,120 Speaker 1: able to be that vulnerable straight away. Yeah, I think 971 00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,719 Speaker 1: that to me, this has been really helpful today and 972 00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,719 Speaker 1: useful today because you know, I think what you said 973 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,279 Speaker 1: about always feeling like we're the one doing every all 974 00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:36,520 Speaker 1: the work, and those kind of mindsets can really lose 975 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,960 Speaker 1: a good thing. We've also talked about some of the 976 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:41,879 Speaker 1: unhealthy things to watch out for, and so I think 977 00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,440 Speaker 1: it's it's just a healthy discussion because I think relationships 978 00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,719 Speaker 1: are constantly They're constantly going on in our life, so 979 00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 1: you never get to a place where you're like, we 980 00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,879 Speaker 1: mastered that, now we're on to the next thing. These 981 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:52,960 Speaker 1: things are all so deep rooted that I'm like, I'm 982 00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,040 Speaker 1: dealing with these things on a daily basis with my 983 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:59,640 Speaker 1: wife because you're just living with another human being, another mind, 984 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,720 Speaker 1: another person, and you've got to constantly refresh these ideas. 985 00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,960 Speaker 1: So thank you so much. Yeah, I've genuinely appreciated refreshing 986 00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:11,920 Speaker 1: some of these again ideas that I'm conscious of, but 987 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:16,120 Speaker 1: it's useful talking it out with someone and hearing your 988 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:20,640 Speaker 1: your take on them too. Yeah, there's a big power 989 00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,640 Speaker 1: in articulating the stuff that's like going on in our 990 00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:26,120 Speaker 1: minds all the time. You talked about this, like this 991 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,920 Speaker 1: is stuff that I already know, but there's difference between 992 00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:33,439 Speaker 1: like knowing and speaking expressing and like getting it out 993 00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,879 Speaker 1: in there for like another person to witness it. It 994 00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:41,239 Speaker 1: does something, So thank you for being open with me too. 995 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,279 Speaker 1: Thank you everyone's been listening and watching. I hope that 996 00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,719 Speaker 1: we discovered some useful skills and tools for you to 997 00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:52,440 Speaker 1: apply in your relationships. I hope that you've got a 998 00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,800 Speaker 1: deeper sense and understanding of, you know, the simplicity of 999 00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,600 Speaker 1: therapy too. Where we turned into a conversation at one 1000 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,279 Speaker 1: point and I was sharing my opinions and ideas, and 1001 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,840 Speaker 1: I was getting to hear Hay Sue's opinions and ideas too. 1002 00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,160 Speaker 1: And I hope that this encourages you, a family member, 1003 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,880 Speaker 1: a friend to seek advice, seek help, seek therapy if 1004 00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:12,799 Speaker 1: that's what they need, that's what they're looking for. Please 1005 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,000 Speaker 1: pass this on to someone who may be on the 1006 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,040 Speaker 1: fence of figuring out whether it's useful to them, and 1007 00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:19,960 Speaker 1: just these be encouraged to have their first session and 1008 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,080 Speaker 1: see how it goes. Again, I want to give a 1009 00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,000 Speaker 1: big thank you to our partners a better help. I 1010 00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:25,560 Speaker 1: want to give a big thank you to Hey Sue 1011 00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:29,879 Speaker 1: for being here and always facilitating these sessions so wonderfully, 1012 00:54:30,200 --> 00:54:31,839 Speaker 1: and a big thank you to all of you've been 1013 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:36,319 Speaker 1: listening and watching. I appreciate you trusting me with your time, 1014 00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,080 Speaker 1: but also I trust you so much, and so I've 1015 00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:43,000 Speaker 1: been opening up so vulnerably in these sessions. I trust 1016 00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:45,799 Speaker 1: you with that. Thank you so much. This episode was 1017 00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:49,600 Speaker 1: sponsored by better Help Online Therapy. Big thanks again to 1018 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,080 Speaker 1: Hey Sue Joe, head of clinical operations at Better Help. 1019 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,840 Speaker 1: So just so you know, this was a therapy session 1020 00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,520 Speaker 1: that you got to get a look inside of. But Hey, 1021 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,799 Speaker 1: Sue Joe is not my therapy. We do not have 1022 00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:04,200 Speaker 1: a therapist client relationship. But I wanted to show you 1023 00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,360 Speaker 1: what a therapy session could look like. Also, just because 1024 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,760 Speaker 1: you might hear something on the show that sounds similar 1025 00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:14,080 Speaker 1: to what you're experiencing, beware of self diagnosis. You want 1026 00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:18,080 Speaker 1: to find a qualified professional to assess and explore diagnosis 1027 00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:19,880 Speaker 1: if that's important to you