Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless,
Speaker 1: severely bug bitten in my case underwear listening to Hunt podcast,
Speaker 1: you can't predict anything presented by first like creating proven
Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear
Speaker 1: for every Hunt first light, go farther, stay longer, All right,
Speaker 1: everybody joined by what? Joined by? What might perhaps be
Speaker 1: our most requested guests? If if me looking at um
Speaker 1: skimming uh social media comments now and then is any
Speaker 1: indicator Cam Haynes bow hunter, UH endurance athlete? And now
Speaker 1: well you you've always been. You've been an author for
Speaker 1: a hell of a long time, an author again and
Speaker 1: an author again, a brand speaking a new book Endure
Speaker 1: how to work hard, outlast and keep hammering. Which is
Speaker 1: available now. It's ships like just it doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: you if you order right now, you won't know the
Speaker 1: difference if you're if you're in fact listening to this
Speaker 1: on the day like today May sixteenth. If you're listening now,
Speaker 1: you want all the difference because it ships all pre
Speaker 1: order ship May seventeen. Right, So you go by like
Speaker 1: go to I'm gonna do this very diplomatically. Watch how
Speaker 1: I do this, go to your local indie bookseller, go
Speaker 1: to Barnes and Noble mm hmm, and then there's that
Speaker 1: one outfit starts that's it. Yeah, Or go to Amazon
Speaker 1: and it will ship and you will get Cam Hayness
Speaker 1: new book ender. Um, how's that going? Was that fun?
Speaker 1: Working on all? That? Project? Is a new one. I've
Speaker 1: I had pretty much self published my other two books,
Speaker 1: and so this was the first time through a publisher
Speaker 1: like you know in New York. Yeah. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: you meet with the publishers as you know, and uh,
Speaker 1: they make a pitch for the advance and all that,
Speaker 1: and so make a decision. And first time I've ever
Speaker 1: done that. Yeah, was it an easy decision? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: do me ask you this? Did you here's did you
Speaker 1: not go with the highest bidder? Uh? Ask for more
Speaker 1: money from the highest poder and and that's a tough
Speaker 1: negotiation right there. I know you've already won the bid,
Speaker 1: but I would like a little more. Yeah. I don't
Speaker 1: know if they I don't know, I don't know how
Speaker 1: it works. So I had a book agent, but anyway,
Speaker 1: I just went with the person who mostly that I
Speaker 1: felt best about From the conversation we did an interview,
Speaker 1: and I just I felt like they they My story
Speaker 1: was resonated most of them. That's whyse decision making. We're
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna get into We're gonna get all into that,
Speaker 1: but we gotta cover off on some other stuff up top.
Speaker 1: Per uh per use here. So oh, here's a big
Speaker 1: piece of news. You know, my whole thing about how
Speaker 1: oh you know what's funny? I got ideas stacking up
Speaker 1: on each other. My kid was out ice fishing with
Speaker 1: his buddy and got a costed by some guy because
Speaker 1: my kid had a meat her hat on. She's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: starts a costing my kid about how his day, how
Speaker 1: his dad wants to make it the hugon Hunt Yellowstone.
Speaker 1: Jimmy's like, so what I'm like, Jimmy, First off, you're
Speaker 1: talking to a guy who doesn't know like a joke
Speaker 1: when he hears one, and the fact that he's a
Speaker 1: costing eleven eleven year old on the ice about this?
Speaker 1: Was he serious? He goes, oh, he was mad. So
Speaker 1: he realized that that was your boy. Well he got
Speaker 1: to ask him my kid like, what's up with that hair?
Speaker 1: You know my kids eleven years old? My dad tells
Speaker 1: him what up, and he's like, well, I got something
Speaker 1: I'd like to say to your dad. But hunting Yellowstone
Speaker 1: are idiots to back off other people's I would love
Speaker 1: I was trying to grill about who where, how? I
Speaker 1: don't know how to find this guy. He's in town.
Speaker 1: But here's the funny part. I basically now I basically
Speaker 1: now get to hunt Yellowstone because I drew Montana's most
Speaker 1: coveted tag, the buffer zone tag. Oh he didn't. You
Speaker 1: don't know this, No, he didn't tell me. You should
Speaker 1: be applauding me. That little Bison triangle right right north
Speaker 1: of the park, the buffer zone around the northwest corner
Speaker 1: of the buffer zone. It's like this hunting restricted area.
Speaker 1: You can't do much anything in there, but there's five
Speaker 1: tag holders and and I have a bazillion had a
Speaker 1: bazillion point. Yeah, no, I don't have great luck all
Speaker 1: the people that there's only five tags, So good luck
Speaker 1: drawn an If you go into that draw with no
Speaker 1: bonus points, I think you have a point eight percent
Speaker 1: chances burning. Spot burning exactly, spot burning the most grizzly
Speaker 1: infested area in the state. Yeah, you can't do much there,
Speaker 1: but they give out five ELK tags for that what
Speaker 1: wraps around that? What that? What wraps around like the
Speaker 1: extreme northwest corner has nothing to do with lot Korean
Speaker 1: or these points that he's talking about. It's all his
Speaker 1: influence with slates lawmakers, the National Park superintendent and said, uh,
Speaker 1: I listen if you don't want in your part to
Speaker 1: make sure I get one of them buffer zone tags
Speaker 1: this year or next year. I don't like. I didn't
Speaker 1: draw any like I barely. I didn't like. I apply
Speaker 1: for everything everywhere. I don't have extraordinary luck. Last year
Speaker 1: I drew nothing. Okay, I just want to do draw something.
Speaker 1: I'd like to tell everybody about it. The nice that
Speaker 1: tag for you is the it's probably only like a
Speaker 1: five minute helicopter flight from your house into the when
Speaker 1: I chopper into there to hunt it. No, I'm real
Speaker 1: excited about that, very excited about that. Uh Oh, here's
Speaker 1: a good thing that we need to talk about. Because
Speaker 1: someone do you believe someone sent in a photo where
Speaker 1: they're claiming that there I don't know, claiming is a
Speaker 1: strong word. They're saying that they found they shot at
Speaker 1: Turkey and found their father's shotgun wad in the Turkey's crop.
Speaker 1: When I first saw that picture, I thought it was
Speaker 1: going to be that they were so close to it.
Speaker 1: But you know what else, A guy just sent me.
Speaker 1: A guy just sent me um. And it was kind
Speaker 1: of in one year now at the other. In one
Speaker 1: eyeball and out the other. He opened up a crop
Speaker 1: and there was a perfect copper bullet in its crop. However,
Speaker 1: the hell it found that eight eight monolithic bullet. We
Speaker 1: had all kinds of turkey stuff going on. The one
Speaker 1: I shot a few days ago had a whole a
Speaker 1: hole punched through the top off it's breast, assume from
Speaker 1: flying into a branch. It wasn't like green and nasty yet,
Speaker 1: so it didn't do any you know. I had to
Speaker 1: discard two breasts off turkey one time that came in
Speaker 1: like came into a call of goblin um, and he
Speaker 1: had he had jabbed a stick, must have been trying
Speaker 1: to land. And I pulled a big chunk of stick
Speaker 1: out of there, and it was so infected and nasty
Speaker 1: and stink so bad. I threw it. I threw the
Speaker 1: breasts out that whole went threw his breast and into
Speaker 1: his crop. There's like pine nuts like in his breast,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They were falling out of
Speaker 1: his crop. M and then Seth you had a Yeah,
Speaker 1: my my buddy Casey Underwood shot a turkey that had
Speaker 1: a like one of those Gammo air rifle pellets in
Speaker 1: the breast cam sick and books many watching my handies.
Speaker 1: They are curious and they can eat big things in
Speaker 1: one goal. Uh. The other day we tore down on
Speaker 1: an old shed and there was some mice nests underneath it.
Speaker 1: They didn't quite gulp down the adults, but I can
Speaker 1: tell you what those hairless little babies that were squirting
Speaker 1: around those were going down like no problem. Like then
Speaker 1: there's no there's no chewing, you know, it just gets
Speaker 1: got down, then it gets ground up or whatever. So
Speaker 1: you know, to eat a shotgun wad, why not? But
Speaker 1: did it eat that shotgun watt or is that just
Speaker 1: the guy's wad lodged into the bird. I think that
Speaker 1: had there would have been some major trauma. We'll look
Speaker 1: at it. Yeah, but the pellets if he was I
Speaker 1: think what Janice is saying, if the wad made it, yeah,
Speaker 1: because and his whole neck off or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: he let mean just I gotta ruin one other crazy
Speaker 1: turkey thing about Cam hang with us man, I know
Speaker 1: turkeys aren't your thing, but yeah, he's actually vowed he
Speaker 1: was into a sports start according at this point, you
Speaker 1: vowed just to not shoot a turkey. Yeah, making a stand.
Speaker 1: Yeah what if we found you? Like Steve's actually next
Speaker 1: week going on a wilderness back country. Yeah, we're not.
Speaker 1: We're gonna walk eight miles before you start hunting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that sounds better. But still, like what I've
Speaker 1: always said, and this is like an inside joke back home,
Speaker 1: but the best thing that can happen on a turkey
Speaker 1: hunt is you kill a turkey. So like, because people
Speaker 1: like to say, well it's kind of like l hunting,
Speaker 1: you know, they're just you know, call him in, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, because the best thing that happens on
Speaker 1: an elk hunts you kill a big bull. The best
Speaker 1: thing on turkey is still just a turkey turkey. So
Speaker 1: that's true. I also know that I know a number
Speaker 1: of elk counters who are who hate the the equivalency.
Speaker 1: It's like, I only know one other he's staunchly opposed
Speaker 1: to that. Yeah, but I've heard the grumblings. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: there's grumbling to respect to cam. But I think that
Speaker 1: the best thing that happens is you're going to kill
Speaker 1: a turkey. Is like, that's a that's an argument for Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's great to kill turkey as well, and you're not
Speaker 1: like carrying all that hundreds of pounds. But you might
Speaker 1: not be aware of too. Is I'm actually opposed to this.
Speaker 1: But you can score turkeys. You can't the spur. It's like,
Speaker 1: I've seen him weigh it, so you weigh it. Then
Speaker 1: you gotta like measure its spur and times at by something.
Speaker 1: It's times at by something that is minimum for a turkey.
Speaker 1: Do you know, No, it's really bad. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: people will be like, well, I've got a high scoring turkey.
Speaker 1: People measure them by length total length now too, don't they?
Speaker 1: The hunting public dude started that just as Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I just kind of just a joke. The long
Speaker 1: bird they call them, all right, But tell me what
Speaker 1: you think about this. I get home yesterday. I got
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff in my truck, so I've gotta
Speaker 1: take multiple trips in and out house. I'll leave the
Speaker 1: side door open after the first trip, go back to
Speaker 1: the truck in the time that it takes me to
Speaker 1: go to the truck grabbing the load of stuff and
Speaker 1: come back into the house. Four or five chickens and
Speaker 1: two turkeys have entered my kitchen through that side door.
Speaker 1: Yeah they're curious, man, you leave the door open there.
Speaker 1: Right in one of the turkeys, in this very short
Speaker 1: amount of time, has jumped up onto the countertop and
Speaker 1: right where we keep our basket of eggs, is already
Speaker 1: got her beak in the eggs and is like coursing
Speaker 1: moving not the chicken egg the two turkey eggs that
Speaker 1: are in this bucket that either she or the other
Speaker 1: hand laid and she's working them. This happened in your
Speaker 1: kid somehow, Like I don't know, man, but it makes
Speaker 1: me think that there's like some sort of ship in
Speaker 1: the head going on there that we don't know about,
Speaker 1: because how does she She's never been in that house,
Speaker 1: because the little baby turkeys are like, dude, it could be.
Speaker 1: It could be because I think they're fur lies. Because
Speaker 1: I was telling you those wild jake's bread those hands.
Speaker 1: Oh really, the wild jake's are having sex with your turkeys,
Speaker 1: and are you gonna let him sick? Things are getting
Speaker 1: pretty rich. I think that after this podcast, I'm going
Speaker 1: over to Murdock's and buying a incubator good shop. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the kids are going to have a blast
Speaker 1: with it. I mean I'm gonna have fun with it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what else are you gonna do? Just try to breaking
Speaker 1: a law? But I don't know what the law would be.
Speaker 1: Are you a criminal if a wild turkey breeds your
Speaker 1: turkey and then you raise those turkeys? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Are you stealing wildlife? Well? No, we can bleep out
Speaker 1: what he just said. Dude, this is like a real
Speaker 1: crazy gray area because if you're go find an elk calf,
Speaker 1: you damn sure you can't bring that home. Right, A
Speaker 1: couple action, You're good. That's crazy. If you had a
Speaker 1: dog that like a coyote, like Kyle Bread your dog
Speaker 1: and had puppies, you'd be fine. I think you'd be fine. Right,
Speaker 1: This is this is gonna this is gonna end a
Speaker 1: real stone or stone or landscape. But you know, if
Speaker 1: you to a willow tree, if you did, you know
Speaker 1: this what I'm gonna say I do. I don't think
Speaker 1: he had to be a real big pot smoker to
Speaker 1: appreciate this. If you play the sound of running water
Speaker 1: to a willow tree. The willow tree will send root
Speaker 1: tendrils in that direction before. That's what I'm saying. At
Speaker 1: some point, you're not gonna eat anything when they find
Speaker 1: out how what's going on out there, No one's gonna
Speaker 1: need anything. Yeah, the vegetarians don't find out that their
Speaker 1: food has is talking to itself. Yeah, what are they
Speaker 1: gonna eat? A couple of corrections, Um, this is bad.
Speaker 1: I got talking about we're talking about top Gun, and
Speaker 1: I was saying how it made a lot of people.
Speaker 1: I was talking about top Gun in the Air Force, guys,
Speaker 1: like other than a beach volleyball scene, the actors are
Speaker 1: wearing Navy uniforms, flying Navy aircraft, or they are aboard
Speaker 1: Navy aircraft carriers throughout the entire movie. I assume you
Speaker 1: may have some Navy vets a bit upset with you,
Speaker 1: so apologies of us were in the room when you
Speaker 1: were saying that, and I didn't catch it either. If
Speaker 1: you would have asked me, I would have known that
Speaker 1: they weren't in the Army. If you just said that
Speaker 1: there are they in the Air Force in the Navy
Speaker 1: in that movie, I don't know if I would have
Speaker 1: been answered correctly, it would have one more correction. This
Speaker 1: is more substantive. We were talking about when we when
Speaker 1: we had the episode with Mr Nugent, we were talking
Speaker 1: about lighted knocks and mechanical broadheads being illegal in Ohio,
Speaker 1: and we were particularly talking about like weird arbitrary Ohio, sorry,
Speaker 1: weird arbitrary tackle archery tackle restrictions UM. As of February,
Speaker 1: legislation h B five oh seven was passed according to
Speaker 1: I I d f G Idaho Department of Fishing Game
Speaker 1: beginning July one. Two thou so coming right up, it
Speaker 1: is legal to use mechanical broadheads and lighted knocks in
Speaker 1: the taken of wildlife during any archery season. Rejoice. That
Speaker 1: was more of an update than a correctional correct. I
Speaker 1: mean at the time that we recorded, we weren't technically correct.
Speaker 1: It's breaking news, that's more. Yeah, I'd put more as
Speaker 1: a breaking news. Uh. Chester caught the pretty much the
Speaker 1: world's biggest wall I ever caught. But before you touched
Speaker 1: on that, I needed I need to tell you I
Speaker 1: forgot to mention we touched on earlier that I am
Speaker 1: now ordained minister YEP, so I can conduct Seth ceremony
Speaker 1: this summer. You seem real excited about that, very excited
Speaker 1: about they're sending me. They're actually sending me a wall
Speaker 1: plaque in the mail. You're gonna wear like the priest uniform.
Speaker 1: I'm addressed like an old Wild West preacher. Oh that's
Speaker 1: gonna be great. I can't wait. So world's biggest walleye
Speaker 1: lifetime best, my lifetime best. Honestly, when I saw that picture,
Speaker 1: I didn't know they made walleyes like that. So Cal
Speaker 1: and I were out fishing and there was no other
Speaker 1: boats out on this local lake. We were at not
Speaker 1: a single boat. The water was colder than you'd want,
Speaker 1: so it was like thirty five degrees. Um really still
Speaker 1: still pre spawn. But we're trolling. Um. I never get
Speaker 1: to do that with Seth. He doesn't like trolling. Anyways,
Speaker 1: we were we got like fishing a d D. Yeah, dude,
Speaker 1: is get him that. Give him a dolsata a d
Speaker 1: D medicine and see if he likes trolling more. I
Speaker 1: just give him bush light if you're in a troll. Anyways, Uh,
Speaker 1: So we were trolling. We had planer boards out um,
Speaker 1: and we were trolling slow like one point two to
Speaker 1: one point five miles an hour, and we had marked
Speaker 1: a big pot of fish caught about a thirteen inch er,
Speaker 1: which is very very common to be expected out there,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of carp in this area. So
Speaker 1: we're trolling along and all of a sudden, that outside
Speaker 1: planer board, the tattle flag goes back, so it's kind
Speaker 1: of like watching it tip up, except the flag tips
Speaker 1: down rather than tipping up, and that that planer board
Speaker 1: starts pulling towards the middle of the boat, and Cow's like,
Speaker 1: go chet, you're on, you know, and I grab it
Speaker 1: and I immediately I'm like I snagged a carp because
Speaker 1: it was just a lot of weight. Yeah, just a
Speaker 1: lot of weight. And I'm sitting there marking away point
Speaker 1: and trying to slow the boat down because I did
Speaker 1: not think on the other end. I did not expect
Speaker 1: what was on the other end of that that line.
Speaker 1: And uh, anyways, so I'm cranking reeling. I get to
Speaker 1: the planer board and you disconnect the planer board from
Speaker 1: the line and then you keep reeling and it's just heavy.
Speaker 1: It's getting towards the boat. I'm expecting it to see
Speaker 1: a yellow carp come up nasty um. So it gets
Speaker 1: to the surface and I see white on the tail,
Speaker 1: which walleye fisherman knows that they got a little white
Speaker 1: spot on the tail. And this isn't a little white spot.
Speaker 1: This is a big white spot. And I didn't say
Speaker 1: anything at first because it really didn't register. And the
Speaker 1: thing got to the surface, and with the refraction in
Speaker 1: the water, it looked like it was four ft long.
Speaker 1: And I'm not kidding. I was just like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: it looks like I mean like, it looks like it's
Speaker 1: four ft long. Yeah, And anyways, my legs starts shaking because,
Speaker 1: like I couldn't believe it. In any walleye fisher we
Speaker 1: would know that this fish was big. It was thirty
Speaker 1: three and a half inches. It was twenty one inches
Speaker 1: around of girth, and cal said he didn't even measure
Speaker 1: it in the right spot, so it could have potentially
Speaker 1: been even bigger. The Montana state record is thirty two
Speaker 1: and a half inches with a twenty two inch girth.
Speaker 1: This had a twenty one inch girth and it was
Speaker 1: thirty three and a half inches not how do you
Speaker 1: know it's not the state record because we didn't have
Speaker 1: a scale and you know, I don't really hold Jester,
Speaker 1: you re record. Yeah, I don't really care to have
Speaker 1: the state record. The fortune could be rich. John Morris
Speaker 1: would have been knocking at your door. Yea, yeah, we
Speaker 1: got a guy coming on the podcast pretty soon because
Speaker 1: he shot the biggest archery white tail ever. Well, crank bait,
Speaker 1: you get it on, you got you got a few
Speaker 1: those for free, blue chrome flicker Shad Berkeley. Berkeley would
Speaker 1: have been kicking the door down, Jessee. You'd have the
Speaker 1: number like, at least at a minimum, the number two
Speaker 1: state record Walleye. Well, I mean we don't know that
Speaker 1: for sure, but it was. It was a big fish,
Speaker 1: and I was I was a static god just to
Speaker 1: think that. I could have said, like, man, you know what,
Speaker 1: buddy of mine, state record holder. But now I can't
Speaker 1: say ship. I gotta be like, oh, I know guy
Speaker 1: that you know it's a guy, Jester. No one cares
Speaker 1: to hear that. Well, you know, let it go. That's
Speaker 1: mighty big of your chester. Yeah, there's full eggs, just
Speaker 1: thinking how many eggs I know. But I'm saying nine
Speaker 1: out of ten, nine out of ten Americans, Americans have
Speaker 1: been taking a fish home nine point Americans. Congrats on
Speaker 1: the fish. Thank you. That's a great one. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you like fishing as much as I like fishing,
Speaker 1: it's like shooting a bowl, you know, like if you
Speaker 1: were to compared to hunting. So it was pretty sweet.
Speaker 1: So how big did that state record walleye? How what
Speaker 1: is its weight? It was over eighteen pounds, so I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's like eighteen point two or eighteen
Speaker 1: point five, but it's round eighteen a little over. And
Speaker 1: and that fish who knows, you know, I mean it
Speaker 1: could have been fifteen, it could have been nineteen, it
Speaker 1: could have been seventeen. Do you think you might want
Speaker 1: to get yourself a little scale? Seth has one late Now,
Speaker 1: I guess it's not gonna happen. You go fishing our
Speaker 1: thirty years and maybe catch a fish like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Chair was supposed to come turkey on with me that weekend.
Speaker 1: He ditched. Steve gave me some four Do you look
Speaker 1: at this as a good positive omen to the beginning
Speaker 1: of the walleye tour? That's hard to say because being
Speaker 1: a fishing guy, you know, if you catch up a
Speaker 1: fish on the first cast, it's bad luck. But this
Speaker 1: isn't even same day, same month, So I think we'll
Speaker 1: have some time to recuperate and uh catch another when
Speaker 1: they make a documentary about Seth and Chester's uh first
Speaker 1: year as tournament walleye fisherman, that like like a or
Speaker 1: like a fictionalized version that that'll be in that because
Speaker 1: you can play either way. It doesn't matter, Like you're
Speaker 1: gonna put it in there and it will be that.
Speaker 1: It was either like a harbinger, right, it was like
Speaker 1: it's a big part of this whole story. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: can these guys are these guys are becoming tournament walleye
Speaker 1: fish they're doing their first year of the tournament? Two nice?
Speaker 1: Does that count? Or is that so when is a
Speaker 1: tournament Maybe it's the weekend of like May. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to make account he would have had he would have
Speaker 1: to keep it alive and then pass a lie detector.
Speaker 1: That's tough. Yeah, you seem pretty honest. But if on
Speaker 1: that day you're like, I caught another one that looks
Speaker 1: just like the one I had on social media, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that could have been your signature that that bait us
Speaker 1: could have been your signature signature series. Yeah, the chest
Speaker 1: Chester Floyd Flicker Chad. Yeah, next time you catch big wallet,
Speaker 1: I need to have a talent manager with you to
Speaker 1: tell you how to handle the situation. But if you
Speaker 1: want to see a picture of the fish, I mean
Speaker 1: it's an impressive ass fish. Yeah. Uh, go to at
Speaker 1: musky Chat, right there's no underscores and all that weirdness.
Speaker 1: Just at muskie Chat you can cheer. Uh. These boys
Speaker 1: are rigging up the electronics and their new um, their
Speaker 1: new tournament boat right now. Well yeah, we didn't take
Speaker 1: a break for this, but we've been rigging the last
Speaker 1: two days. A lot of wirings. It's a sweet boat. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've never done it before and it's quite a process.
Speaker 1: It goes into it. What do you win in the tournament?
Speaker 1: We don't rights for us, but you can win money
Speaker 1: and we're gonna donate it back to like access, whether
Speaker 1: it's a fish cleaning station at the local lake we're
Speaker 1: fishing on, or boat ramp improvement or whatever is needed,
Speaker 1: some sort of project, you know, around a lake. But
Speaker 1: good luck, they're gonna be uh, they're gonna turn into philanthropists. Yeah, alright, boys,
Speaker 1: thanks Steve. Thanks, I'm gonna go pack for turkey hunt. Alright,
Speaker 1: So not moving out we gotta do it. This is
Speaker 1: this is a We're gonna jump into a Shawn's Duck
Speaker 1: report real quick, because Shawn's gonna hit on something of
Speaker 1: international or national news significance their day. I got a
Speaker 1: body that always sends me articles every morning I wake up,
Speaker 1: I read whatever he sends me. Thirty two bald eagles
Speaker 1: have succumbed to avian influenza, which is nothing period of
Speaker 1: what it has been doing. Um tens of thousands of
Speaker 1: ducks right now dying from avian influenza. And Seawan is
Speaker 1: gonna break that down for us. Yeah, So I got
Speaker 1: to talk to dr Andy Ramy. He works for the U.
Speaker 1: S g S. He's a research wildlife geneticist and he
Speaker 1: works in Alaska on avian influenza. And uh, what got
Speaker 1: me all interested in the whole avian influenza outbreak was
Speaker 1: I had got a text in January about the first
Speaker 1: confirmed case of what we would call highly pathogenic avian influenza,
Speaker 1: you know, blue wing teal, I think if I remember right,
Speaker 1: and it was like, you know that that stuff kind
Speaker 1: of happens. But when the snow geese got back to
Speaker 1: South Dakota this year, it was like holy cow, something's changed.
Speaker 1: So I figured I should probably do a duck report
Speaker 1: on it, which this wasn't the duck report we had
Speaker 1: originally planned to do, but it's it's relevant for sure.
Speaker 1: So how how Dr Rami described how the highly pathogenic
Speaker 1: avian influenza works is, typically there's avian influenza in all
Speaker 1: wild birds, but it's what they would call low path
Speaker 1: it's you know, not causing symptoms or sickness, any kind
Speaker 1: of actual disease. They just kind of all kind of
Speaker 1: have a pool of virus as always working through the population.
Speaker 1: Every now and then, what happens is avian influenza will
Speaker 1: pour over from the wild birds into a domestic bird population,
Speaker 1: but it's not highly pathogenic when it does that. Now,
Speaker 1: once it gets into these domestic birds, that's where it
Speaker 1: can become highly pathogenic. That's where you get kind of
Speaker 1: the you know, the news articles and headlines every so
Speaker 1: often of all these poultry and domestic birds getting killed off. Historically,
Speaker 1: what once it becomes highly pathogenic and domestic population, it
Speaker 1: just stays in domestic populations until it never really worked
Speaker 1: its way back into wild birds. And during that outbreak
Speaker 1: in North America, we had our first positive North American
Speaker 1: wild bird cases and they had ninety eight of them.
Speaker 1: This outbreak puts that to shame. It's not like anything
Speaker 1: we've ever had before. It is uncharted waters for sure.
Speaker 1: For example, this outbreak, we have over forty species that
Speaker 1: have been infected. The positive tests are in the thousands,
Speaker 1: but frankly like they've kind of quit testing all the reports.
Speaker 1: For example, South Dakota is right now sitting at I
Speaker 1: think forty eight positive tests, but I've on one rocky
Speaker 1: bank on the side of a lake counted like forty
Speaker 1: three dead birds myself. So it's hard to know. You know,
Speaker 1: wild birds are hard. You can't really quantifying year as
Speaker 1: easily because they die all over the place and they're
Speaker 1: all spread out. They're not concentrated. But it's running through
Speaker 1: the wild population and it's pretty intense. Are they are?
Speaker 1: Is there any way that folks can Are they worried
Speaker 1: about it moving to folks the way that you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, the same way that that COVID nineteen right
Speaker 1: jump from an animal host to a human host. Is
Speaker 1: that a concern? Yeah? It is. There has been times
Speaker 1: since two thousand three where bird flu does jump into humans.
Speaker 1: Um I think there's it's around eight hundred sixty human
Speaker 1: infections and half of those are fatal. So like, if
Speaker 1: it does jump the kind of animal human species barrier,
Speaker 1: it can be real bad news. So they're definitely worried
Speaker 1: about it now. You know, typically you have to have
Speaker 1: a lot of exposure to the virus to see it
Speaker 1: umped that barrier. Um you know, when it has jumped
Speaker 1: the barrier in the past, it's domestic, right, it's poultry.
Speaker 1: But the U s d A does have a bunch
Speaker 1: of recommendations out on how to handle wild birds and
Speaker 1: kind of how to proceed with this going through. There's
Speaker 1: two reasons for that, one being they don't want you
Speaker 1: to transfer it to other bird populations and also they
Speaker 1: don't want you to go get sick. So they are
Speaker 1: they talking about wild birds you just final laying around
Speaker 1: dead in your yard or they mean like wild birds
Speaker 1: that you get when you're all hunting. Both, Yeah, just
Speaker 1: wild birds in general. You shouldn't be eating or drinking
Speaker 1: when you're in contact with them. You shouldn't have the
Speaker 1: carcasses around other birds. Use dedicated tools for cleaning those birds,
Speaker 1: and make sure they don't get near poultry or your pets.
Speaker 1: Are you supposed to put on like an ninety five masks?
Speaker 1: I didn't see anything like that, just when you finally
Speaker 1: got the burn all your damn masks. Like, what I
Speaker 1: want to do is make a big quilt hold on, Sean.
Speaker 1: You can't be like breathing too much around them, but
Speaker 1: you can still eat them. Yeah, that's that's what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna Because they're talking about having a dedicated pair of
Speaker 1: shoes that you wear while cleaning birds and eat the bird.
Speaker 1: Then what have that? A dedicated like you know, jacket,
Speaker 1: dedicated kitchen for cooking the birds, So presumably you're cooking
Speaker 1: it out of the meat Sean, Yes, and yeah, you
Speaker 1: know they recommend you cook it too hundred sixty degrees,
Speaker 1: which is hard to fathom eating snow goose has been
Speaker 1: cooked that that long. But the shoes thing is about
Speaker 1: the feces, right, That's where a lot of bread comes from,
Speaker 1: is fecal matter. And what's this that about? What's this
Speaker 1: where the Minnesota Border Animal Health banned exhibitions of poultry? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what is an exhibition of poultry? Well, they mean like
Speaker 1: even stuff like fairs or sale barns or stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But they all, yes, yeah, and there's a lot of
Speaker 1: states doing it. Even up until you know, April fifteen,
Speaker 1: they were hoping that the Pacific Flyway was in the clear.
Speaker 1: But now it's like Idaho and Utah and Wyoming, everything's
Speaker 1: getting it. It's it's pretty much everywhere. It's rampant at
Speaker 1: this point. So they're trying to keep domestic populations from
Speaker 1: moving around too much and being you know, sold and moved,
Speaker 1: keep your honest as turkeys from having sex with the
Speaker 1: wild ones. Yeah, he's really Yehan, he's rethinking now having
Speaker 1: his turkeys and chickens walking around on his kitchen count. So, Sean,
Speaker 1: when I you know, when I said that, when I
Speaker 1: was teeing this up, I said tens of thousands of
Speaker 1: duck deaths. And I was only saying that because of
Speaker 1: seeing pictures on social media and other places where it's
Speaker 1: like pictures of shorelines covered in dead ducks. But my
Speaker 1: number was probably my numbers probably exaggerated, right, Like, it's
Speaker 1: probably not what I'm what I was saying, Well, I
Speaker 1: don't know, because you just can't really get a tab
Speaker 1: on how many wild birds are dying from it. You know,
Speaker 1: I personally have seen hundreds of dead birds um scattered
Speaker 1: around our local lakes here. You know, they had a
Speaker 1: lake in Illinois that had two hundred some dead birds. Okay,
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of birds out there that
Speaker 1: no one's counted up right exactly. You know, they just
Speaker 1: they don't have the personnel to go test and sample
Speaker 1: all these birds. And then when you get what when
Speaker 1: there is an avian influenza outbreak, how long does it?
Speaker 1: How long does it play out? Do you believe that
Speaker 1: this will still be a conversation people are having next
Speaker 1: you know, when duck seasons start a start back up
Speaker 1: next October or will it have run its course by then? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. The outbreak was seven months. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: we're three months into this one, but really it didn't
Speaker 1: get going until un till March. So yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard to know. Definitely, the spring migration was kind
Speaker 1: of how this spread so quickly because it timed out
Speaker 1: perfect where right as it entered the North American population
Speaker 1: was right as the spring migration was starting, So it's
Speaker 1: perfect storm of timing versus outbreak was over the winter,
Speaker 1: so it was so spring migration just meaning that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of birds on the move, carrying and passing
Speaker 1: along to other populations of birds. Yes, yep, Hey Sean,
Speaker 1: is there anything that you can, you know, observe behaviorally
Speaker 1: or in physical appearance to tell whether a bird's got influenza?
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah, definitely. One of the symptoms I've seen
Speaker 1: a lot um around here is like a bobbing head.
Speaker 1: They'll kind of be sitting there and just almost like
Speaker 1: someone nodding off on a warm day. They're just their
Speaker 1: head is sitting there, flopping side to side, or they'll
Speaker 1: be flapping their wings real goofy and slow. Definitely seeing
Speaker 1: a lot of them just not scared of people. They
Speaker 1: just sit there right in front of you and don't
Speaker 1: don't move as far as you know. Anytime you see
Speaker 1: that or dead birds in general. The one thing that
Speaker 1: Dr Amy had said is like, please report it, whether
Speaker 1: it's too if you're on private land, like to the
Speaker 1: person that owns or manages the land, if you're on
Speaker 1: public to whatever agency it would be, because most places
Speaker 1: have a protocol for how they're supposed to handle that,
Speaker 1: whether it's you know, through the U. S d A,
Speaker 1: or Fish and Wildlife Service, whatever it may be. UM
Speaker 1: and the other thing is there now recommending takedown bird feeders,
Speaker 1: which makes a lot of sense. Yeah, talking to everybody
Speaker 1: on my block through the war on bird because all
Speaker 1: the time, man, uh, do you think Sean, is anybody
Speaker 1: guessing that this could have population level impacts on waterfall
Speaker 1: species or is it too early to say? Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: hoping not. It's too early to say, but they definitely
Speaker 1: are paying more attension to it now than they've ever
Speaker 1: had to before. You know, before it was a purely
Speaker 1: domestic poultry problem, and now you're really seeing easy to
Speaker 1: observe wild bird impacts. So they're they're worried, but not
Speaker 1: to the point of maybe like you would be with
Speaker 1: c w D. Got you well, I mean, we'll keep
Speaker 1: us posted. Yeah, what's your next duct report on? I
Speaker 1: think I'll now finally get to the the GPS tracking one,
Speaker 1: the odometer one. Oh, like how many miles the duck
Speaker 1: puts on? Mm hmmm yeap oh man, that's kind of
Speaker 1: a Now you got me all worried about ducks. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't think. I don't think wild turkeys jumping jumping
Speaker 1: in and hanging out with Janice's pet turkeys then walking
Speaker 1: around in the kitchen's probably not ideal, Sean, are you
Speaker 1: recommending that that just take out the whole flock, domestic
Speaker 1: and wild. At this point you need to not don't
Speaker 1: whatever you do, don't exhibit them. Yeah, don't take them
Speaker 1: to the fair. No exhibitions, thanks man. Yep, all right,
Speaker 1: so you ready, Cam, you don't want to talk about
Speaker 1: turkeys to everybody about tell everybody about and do her?
Speaker 1: Man like what what led to? What led to it
Speaker 1: was people saying like, yeah, I'd write a book someday.
Speaker 1: Uh not really, I don't know. I mean I think, uh,
Speaker 1: Jim Shocky has a um person. He's worked with Greg
Speaker 1: Gusts Show, and he knew this book agent, I'm pretty
Speaker 1: sure the book agent that Jim and Eva had used before.
Speaker 1: And they've been trying to get ahold of me. And
Speaker 1: I usually never call back anybody, and so anyway, this one,
Speaker 1: it's just like a little rulier this. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: I just like, I'm not good with any business. And
Speaker 1: uh so finally I talked to this book agent esther,
Speaker 1: and she was super fired up, and it's just like you,
Speaker 1: I think you should do this, this would be huge
Speaker 1: this and that, and I was like whatever, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't, I'm good if I don't, good if I do,
Speaker 1: not that big a deal. And so then we said
Speaker 1: we'll see what the publishers think, and so then everybody's
Speaker 1: fired up. So we just did it. And but you
Speaker 1: had to do like you had to start collecting your thoughts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: um yeah, I mean it's it's mostly just uh, the
Speaker 1: book I think in general shares um. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: how you come up, what your upbringing is. If you
Speaker 1: follow your passion, whatever that is, you can have whatever
Speaker 1: success you dream of, essentially, and so it's it's that's
Speaker 1: the story. And I thought that might be useful to
Speaker 1: share to two have other people, maybe impact other people.
Speaker 1: So I thought, okay, let's do it if you had to.
Speaker 1: If you're gonna take that line of thinking and look
Speaker 1: at your own, um, your own upbringing and decisions you
Speaker 1: may have when you're young, do you look at Are
Speaker 1: you like surprised you landed where you are? Oh? Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I mean that's I had no you know. I what
Speaker 1: I say is I'd never let anybody down because nobody
Speaker 1: expected anything of me. So it's not like I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh you you let me down or you had all
Speaker 1: this uh you know, you tell like I tell my kids,
Speaker 1: you got so much potential. Nobody ever said I had
Speaker 1: potential to do anything, you know, So, um, I wasn't
Speaker 1: not living up to it. So yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: I figured what I did coming out of high school,
Speaker 1: tried to play football. Um, wasn't really that into. I
Speaker 1: went to school on and off for a few years
Speaker 1: after high school. But then I thought, well, I'll get
Speaker 1: a job setting chokers. And it's like back home, that's
Speaker 1: what people did. You worked in the woods, and I
Speaker 1: liked being in the woods stokers. Yeah. It's just you know,
Speaker 1: were working on a logging site. So guys go down
Speaker 1: there off the landing, they set chokers on the on
Speaker 1: the logs, and the followers come in. They follow the
Speaker 1: trees and then you set a choker on. It gets
Speaker 1: drug up to the landing and and cleaned up and
Speaker 1: then it's like half inch three quarter inch cable. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're just dragging it around. It's usually pretty steep country
Speaker 1: because that's timber country. And back home, that paid pretty good.
Speaker 1: I mean it started like thirteen bucks hour, So I'm like, god,
Speaker 1: I could you know thirteen bucks an hour? I'm good
Speaker 1: to go. That'd be awesome. And so I thought I
Speaker 1: was gonna get a job logging, and the same day
Speaker 1: I was offered the job logging for s A logging was. Um,
Speaker 1: I got this job at uh just the City of Eugene,
Speaker 1: working summer help and just working picking up dead animals.
Speaker 1: Basically they got hit. They people would call in a
Speaker 1: dead dog or a possum or something deer got hit
Speaker 1: and I'd go pick it up. And if I wasn't
Speaker 1: doing that, I'd weedied along the bike path. And so
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, you know, working for the city, that's
Speaker 1: always a good, good career. So that's what I was
Speaker 1: gonna do. It's safe, right, secure, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: people like me that was like, this is as good
Speaker 1: as it's going to get. So that was my goal.
Speaker 1: So if you'd go on path at least resistance, that
Speaker 1: was where you would wound up. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess. So, I mean, but you like, well, I
Speaker 1: want to get a smart stuff. But this is jumping
Speaker 1: ahead a little bit. But you for you've at this
Speaker 1: point established like well, you have a very established career
Speaker 1: um as a bow hunter, as an endurance athlete, like
Speaker 1: you're like a well known figure. You do a lot
Speaker 1: of media projects, right, you have a lot of sponsorships
Speaker 1: with people. But you kept you kept a regular job
Speaker 1: for a long time. I still have it. You still
Speaker 1: have the regular job. I'm I'm superintendent at the Water
Speaker 1: and Power company, So you still have your day job.
Speaker 1: I knew you did, but I didn't know you still did. No, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I used what are you waiting for PTO today to
Speaker 1: come here? That's funny because I think if you type
Speaker 1: in like I'm trying to think what the Google search
Speaker 1: would have to start with, but it will auto Phil
Speaker 1: Does cam Haynes still have a real job because because
Speaker 1: people are always wondering, like if every time I hear that,
Speaker 1: I get surprised all over again. Yeah I do. I
Speaker 1: go to work every day except today. I use vacation seriously.
Speaker 1: Yeah to me, um hunting, Like I said, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: not good at business. I don't care about business. Um,
Speaker 1: I have value, so I'm I'm not stupid, so I
Speaker 1: take advantage of the value I have. But hunting to
Speaker 1: me means more than any business. So if I don't
Speaker 1: have to rely on it, I can just tell whoever
Speaker 1: I want I'm not doing that, and you're not telling
Speaker 1: me how I'm gonna hunt what I'm where, I'm gonna hunt,
Speaker 1: what I'm gonna do. I'll do what I want because
Speaker 1: if it all goes away, I have this job. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But here's what one of the things that surprises me
Speaker 1: is like you do a lot of races and stuff,
Speaker 1: and these are time consuming things, and the training is
Speaker 1: time consuming. Yeah, the training is hard. Yeah. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: I mean, I I don't get much sleep. I get up,
Speaker 1: um to train for a two mile race. I want
Speaker 1: to run a marathon a day. I want to be
Speaker 1: able to do that for know, weeks at a time
Speaker 1: and get in those miles. To do that, I have
Speaker 1: to get up before work. I'll try to get in
Speaker 1: at least ten or thirteen in the morning, run at lunch,
Speaker 1: and then whatever the balance is to get that twenty
Speaker 1: six after work. And so I'll just I work it around, um,
Speaker 1: basically in my life. And you know, I still want
Speaker 1: to hang out with the family in the evening, so
Speaker 1: I do that, they go to bed, then I'll get
Speaker 1: those miles in, or I get up early before work
Speaker 1: and get those miles in. So the found you know,
Speaker 1: I'm still away from work all day, but I still
Speaker 1: eat dinner and watch a little TV and then go
Speaker 1: back to training. What's time to get up in the morning.
Speaker 1: It depends on what my goal is. I mean if
Speaker 1: some sometimes I want to do a marathon before work,
Speaker 1: and if I do that, that will be like two
Speaker 1: or two or two thirty and then I have to
Speaker 1: be at work at seven. Jeez, Yeah it's not I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't instead of calling that book and I call
Speaker 1: it bout tired. Yeah, that would be a good name.
Speaker 1: But what are you worried about? I want to get
Speaker 1: back into your biography. Are you worried like with all
Speaker 1: the emerging with all the emerging research about like long
Speaker 1: term effects of like chronic sleep, chronic lack of sleep,
Speaker 1: you can worry. No, No, I mean people say that
Speaker 1: about knees and about you know. What I would say
Speaker 1: is tomorrow is not guaranteed. So why would I be
Speaker 1: worried about if I'm sixties, seventy or eighty years old
Speaker 1: when I might be dead tomorrow. How old are you
Speaker 1: and how long have you been doing this kind of regimen? Um?
Speaker 1: I ran my first marathon when I was thirty two,
Speaker 1: so I plenty of yeah, decades. Yeah, do you see
Speaker 1: or do you not even think this way? Like, do
Speaker 1: you see like that lifestyle coming to an end at
Speaker 1: some point? Are you just gonna keep going until you
Speaker 1: drop dead? I mean, I'll keep going. I don't. I
Speaker 1: feel I just did uh a mountain marathon. I got
Speaker 1: fourth Um, So I mean I'm not I'm banged up
Speaker 1: just because I'm old and they've got a lot of miles.
Speaker 1: But I still feel pretty good. Yeah, it's and it's
Speaker 1: something you enjoy and you just want to keep doing it.
Speaker 1: It's I like pushing myself. I mean, I like, I
Speaker 1: don't feel running for me has been a way for
Speaker 1: me to say, uh, just to just I'm putting in
Speaker 1: work and so I feel like I can't be in
Speaker 1: the mountains every day. I can't hunt every day. I
Speaker 1: count scout every day, but I can put in work
Speaker 1: every day, and I feel like running is like I
Speaker 1: can go to bed no one, Okay, I did, I did.
Speaker 1: I moved the needle in the right direction today. So
Speaker 1: that's that's what running does. I want to back up
Speaker 1: from it, though, Uh, at what age did you start hunting?
Speaker 1: And at what ages you start bowl hunting? Um? I
Speaker 1: started hunting up fifteen. I killed my first deer, a
Speaker 1: spike mule deer when I was fifteen, with a rifle,
Speaker 1: and my stepdad got me into it. I didn't. I didn't.
Speaker 1: We didn't get along because he wasn't my dad never
Speaker 1: really liked him. Um he's still around. Yeah, he's still around. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he wants to cut that part out. But no, no,
Speaker 1: no, no no, he's that's hey. I talked about it in
Speaker 1: the book. I mean I hated him. It's just nothing
Speaker 1: he could have done about it because it wasn't your dad.
Speaker 1: That's pretty much. He wasn't My dad was all it took.
Speaker 1: And then it was like then, you know, he had
Speaker 1: a hard job too, so he would come home. He
Speaker 1: was a roller operator um on the construction, you know,
Speaker 1: and hot, miserable work. It comes home. Here's this kid
Speaker 1: who doesn't like him, so I'd always have it. It
Speaker 1: wasn't a great situation. So but and I give him
Speaker 1: a lot of credit because he did take me hunting,
Speaker 1: even though I'm sure he didn't want to. It took
Speaker 1: me and my brother hunting, and that kind of started it.
Speaker 1: And I killed the spike buck and then I you know,
Speaker 1: team I'm like, hey, I got some positive feedback that
Speaker 1: I killed a buck. And it's like, as a kid,
Speaker 1: that feels good to get some you know. And I
Speaker 1: was like, man, this is I like this. I like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I like kind of like the challenge
Speaker 1: of it. It seemed it was hard, but I got
Speaker 1: it done. I got positive affirmation. So then that just
Speaker 1: kind of progressed. And then my buddy Roy got me.
Speaker 1: You know, I was eighteen, I think, and he he
Speaker 1: was year ahead of me in school. He was nineteen.
Speaker 1: He was he had a trap line and all this.
Speaker 1: He was like always known in our little school. Was like,
Speaker 1: it's like the authority on hunting because he just I
Speaker 1: was always out there trapping and doing things. And so
Speaker 1: he said, hey, we played football together and we weren't
Speaker 1: best friends, and uh he said you need to start
Speaker 1: bow hunting. And he goes, there's way less people, way
Speaker 1: more animals. It's awesome. And I'm like, oh, that sounds
Speaker 1: that sounds sweet. So I started bow hunting and then, um,
Speaker 1: I have never rifle hunted since. Is that right? Really?
Speaker 1: That was it the ages that that was twenty by
Speaker 1: the time I bought my first bow tag. So you
Speaker 1: felt like it was a thing you had to be
Speaker 1: that you're just gonna that's it, You're gonna hunt with
Speaker 1: the bow. That was Yeah, I just didn't have I
Speaker 1: don't know why I didn't have any interest in rifle.
Speaker 1: I still went with people. I still took my little brother.
Speaker 1: I have a little brothers ten years younger than me,
Speaker 1: Like his first three deer, I took him and he
Speaker 1: killed with the rifle. Um, you know my kids, they've
Speaker 1: all rifle hunted. I just it's I've always just been
Speaker 1: a bow hunter. And it's like I go on a
Speaker 1: lot of hunts where it's any weapon and uh, you
Speaker 1: know the most high pressure one that most people kind
Speaker 1: of falter on if they say they're bow hunters, but
Speaker 1: then it's a sheep hunt. Um, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's it's bow or nothing. I'll eat the tag. So
Speaker 1: it's just that's what I doline. What do you think
Speaker 1: it is about bow hunt? Because I think that there's
Speaker 1: you're obviously not the only one that sort of identifies
Speaker 1: that way, And he was playing a people that do
Speaker 1: a lot of both, me included. You know, I like
Speaker 1: to mix it up. And when his rifle season, I
Speaker 1: hunt with the boat with a rifle. But I mean,
Speaker 1: do you have any like thoughts on like what is
Speaker 1: it about like the bow hunting that really just hooks
Speaker 1: people where they're like, yeah, I don't even have an
Speaker 1: interest to go hunt with a rifle anymore. Um man,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I'm I've always once I started,
Speaker 1: it was just like and then Roy was the same
Speaker 1: way who got me started? You know, he's not talked
Speaker 1: about him in the book. He died in He Fell
Speaker 1: sheep hunting and uh, we're just bow hunters. That was it.
Speaker 1: I mean people now they'll they'll meet me that might
Speaker 1: not know me, and it's like, so you're the bow
Speaker 1: hunter and it's like that's all I ever wanted to
Speaker 1: be mm hms it. I mean, how many animals have
Speaker 1: you killed with a rifle? Like before you started, be
Speaker 1: like three or four deer? That's aft to when I
Speaker 1: started bow hunting. Because I couldn't afford elk tags or
Speaker 1: twenty bucks, so a deer tag was I think nine
Speaker 1: fifty or ten fifty, so I could get a blacktail
Speaker 1: deer tag, but the elk tags were too much, So
Speaker 1: I just deer hunt and I killed I killed a
Speaker 1: buck every year. Did you what was the what was
Speaker 1: the first ball? You were shooting? A Golden Eagles super
Speaker 1: Hawk turbocam from He didn't come in on re curves
Speaker 1: and stuff. No, Bohner's Discount warehouse. Yeah. Have you ever
Speaker 1: thought about tipping back into traditional archery? Um? No, I
Speaker 1: mean I messed around with him, but Roy actually he
Speaker 1: went back. He had target panic so bad with his compound.
Speaker 1: Is that the best hunter I've ever been around, best
Speaker 1: woodman's woodsman I've ever been around. But he had target
Speaker 1: panics so bad. He went to recurve and he he
Speaker 1: said he didn't think it was that much of a disadvantage.
Speaker 1: He said, it seemed it's easier in some ways because
Speaker 1: it's like more instinct and you don't have to think,
Speaker 1: you don't have to level up and full drop, you know,
Speaker 1: anchor the same every time, and you know, kiss her
Speaker 1: button and all this. You just shoot and he killed
Speaker 1: never nothing, never changed. His success stayed exactly the same.
Speaker 1: He killed no matter what. And I'd always say he
Speaker 1: could if you said, hey, you got to use this
Speaker 1: to go kill, you know. He moved to Alaska about
Speaker 1: uh in ninety three, I think, And I said he
Speaker 1: could go and get it done with whatever you told
Speaker 1: him the weapon was. You're holding the pen, yeah, holding
Speaker 1: the pin. Yeah, I mean it wouldn't matter. He's just
Speaker 1: would figure out a way to get it done. Uh,
Speaker 1: he's the guy that he he fell she putting what
Speaker 1: was the what were the circumstances there? Um, So there's
Speaker 1: this mountain range well right out of was Sola, which
Speaker 1: is where he lived. His wife still lives. But you
Speaker 1: can see Pioneer Peak and it's so that's the that's
Speaker 1: the tag. It's it's it's a cluting a lake tag.
Speaker 1: And I put in four in two thousand and eight
Speaker 1: because as a non resident, if you go for the
Speaker 1: late hunt, which is October one to the tenth, it's
Speaker 1: a terrible hunt. But sheep hunting, I've never I've never
Speaker 1: sheep hunted. So he said, hey, put it for this
Speaker 1: tag you have chance of getting is a nonresident. So
Speaker 1: I put in one time, got it and he goes,
Speaker 1: it's it's hard, it's dangerous, it's you don't know what
Speaker 1: the weather is gonna be. We might still have the
Speaker 1: guiding requirement though. Yeah, he was. He got signed off.
Speaker 1: He was an assistant guide and he could guide me
Speaker 1: you could hang out to go. So we went on
Speaker 1: that hunt two thousand and eight and I killed a
Speaker 1: ram and the hunt says any sheep, and uh so
Speaker 1: I killed just like probably a four and a half
Speaker 1: year old ram. Wasn't anything. It's my first sheep. So
Speaker 1: that is the same hunt he drew into and he'd
Speaker 1: killed nine dollar sheep with his boo. So he but
Speaker 1: he killed rams up there too. He knew. He was like,
Speaker 1: I said, we've we've done that hunt. We've been in
Speaker 1: country like that a lot. But he was up there
Speaker 1: sheep hunting and um just had done the stock. He
Speaker 1: actually missed this ram and he was going to head
Speaker 1: back up the hill to find a camp on spot.
Speaker 1: A little flash bought up maybe towards the top of
Speaker 1: the ridge, and something happened. A rock rolled or he
Speaker 1: stepped back and fell off and seven feet and died. Man.
Speaker 1: So then all of a sudden, you just get a
Speaker 1: call one day his we changed subject. Yeah, No, I
Speaker 1: was in Colorado deer hunting and uh my wife called
Speaker 1: m and said, uh, you know, Roy had an accident,
Speaker 1: called Jill. So I said, okay, So I called jail
Speaker 1: and I said, hey, what's up? And she just said
Speaker 1: Roy's not coming home. He fell mm hm oh man.
Speaker 1: So yeah, um, but so it's hard just because uh
Speaker 1: it's it's hard every time I talked about it. But um,
Speaker 1: we came up together high school, same you know, kids
Speaker 1: in our class. He was like making this name for
Speaker 1: himself and Alaska just just just a stud and it's
Speaker 1: finally all happening, and I got you and it was
Speaker 1: I imagine too. Man. The fact that it was like that,
Speaker 1: what it was like hunting that held you guys together,
Speaker 1: and then to have that be the thing that ends
Speaker 1: up taking his life is just a whole different experience, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, we knew what we love to do. We
Speaker 1: always wanted the biggest adventure. We knew there's risks, just
Speaker 1: we knew that was always it was always there. But
Speaker 1: we loved going for the biggest, most epic trips, the
Speaker 1: biggest the brown bear, grizzly bear, doll sheep. Uh, we
Speaker 1: love Kodiak, Prince of Wales, we killed you know, we
Speaker 1: did Big black Bear there all the time. We just
Speaker 1: loved I mean I I hunted Alaska probably thirty times
Speaker 1: with them because we just loved that adventure. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, We're not dumb. We know that ship happens.
Speaker 1: People die all the time, especially up there, and that
Speaker 1: I know just from I read a lot and uh
Speaker 1: mostly adventure and hunting. But anybody who's spends a lot
Speaker 1: of time in the mountains, a lot of them die.
Speaker 1: I mean in that that country, a lot of them die.
Speaker 1: You can't have big adventure and no risk. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: uh yeah, it was just hard because Roy was he
Speaker 1: was he was the only one. You know, people talk
Speaker 1: about haters and you know, you kill I kill a
Speaker 1: spike bowl and people are saying, oh I heard he
Speaker 1: shot at the rifle, I kill a five point Oh
Speaker 1: I heard he shot at the crossbow. Roy is the
Speaker 1: only one who always believed in me. So when he died,
Speaker 1: I was like, fuck sucked. Mm hmm. Was he on
Speaker 1: your mind a lot working on this book, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: it gets because it has a lot of personal history
Speaker 1: in it. Yeah. I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't be here,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be talking to you if it wasn't for Roy.
Speaker 1: He's starting with Bohun. When you're going for like the
Speaker 1: biggest adventure or the biggest what what do you hope
Speaker 1: to like experience in that experience, like what is what
Speaker 1: is that? What are you reaching for in that um challenge?
Speaker 1: Just that being on the edge and you don't know,
Speaker 1: you don't know what's gonna happen. And you know his
Speaker 1: last year we hunted together. We went out and in
Speaker 1: this one area I went up in July. Actually, you
Speaker 1: can start killing brown bear and uh in this area
Speaker 1: there's so many brown bear there hammering the moose and
Speaker 1: you can kill two brown bear and uh three black bear.
Speaker 1: And so I'm like Roy was working for Jonah Stewart
Speaker 1: at that time. Called Jonah and I said can I said,
Speaker 1: did I do I read this right? You can kill
Speaker 1: two brown bear? He's like, yeah, I said, in three
Speaker 1: black bear? He said yeah. I said, well, I said,
Speaker 1: can I can I get to brown bear? What do
Speaker 1: I have to pay to get too? Brown bear opportunities?
Speaker 1: And so we went up there and it's like the
Speaker 1: first one stalked in and uh, this this boar was
Speaker 1: kind of in the it's along the water there. So
Speaker 1: he was laying down and I got in un soil
Speaker 1: creek bed. The window was good and I got forty
Speaker 1: yards from him and he got up and he's looking
Speaker 1: at me and that's what we live for. Forty yards
Speaker 1: and what's gonna what are you gonna do? Can you
Speaker 1: make that shot? So I pulled back, you know, frontal
Speaker 1: just pin wheeled him. Couldn't have been it was maybe
Speaker 1: an inch to the right, but smoked him. That's what
Speaker 1: we live for. Do you do you think that's something
Speaker 1: like you always had in you or did you find
Speaker 1: that through the craving for that through hunting? Um, I
Speaker 1: don't know if you really know you have it, if
Speaker 1: you have it until you actually started getting those challenges. So,
Speaker 1: like I said, I didn't have I was hunting blacktailed deer,
Speaker 1: you know. I walked from my house and up into
Speaker 1: the Logan country and then then we started. We went
Speaker 1: to the Three Sisters Wilderness and couldn't find Elk, and
Speaker 1: so I said, hey, I think my my uncle had
Speaker 1: been to the Eagle Cap Wilderns before, which is over
Speaker 1: against largest wilderness, me and Rover and there, And I said,
Speaker 1: I think my uncle had been there before. They may
Speaker 1: be hunted back in there. And we couldn't find Elk
Speaker 1: and the Three Sisters which is Cascades, and so I
Speaker 1: called him and I said, I said, hey, do you
Speaker 1: know any place to elk hunt in the Eagle Cap
Speaker 1: and he said, uh, he said, yeah, he goes. You
Speaker 1: go to this up this road the firewatch tower. You
Speaker 1: go up there's this tree and I was just like,
Speaker 1: I didn't know. So we get up there and we're
Speaker 1: just like what this is a thirty thirty miles by
Speaker 1: sixty mile wilderness and we're looked up here and by
Speaker 1: this tree and we're just like so, no, not a
Speaker 1: map one, but anyway that so then we're like, well,
Speaker 1: that got to start to start in the wilderness. So
Speaker 1: then it's like, so we looked at the map of
Speaker 1: the wilderness, like how can we get as far away
Speaker 1: from anybody as possible? So you go to the middle
Speaker 1: of wilderness boom right there. And so that's where we
Speaker 1: wanted to go, the biggest adventure in our little I mean,
Speaker 1: that was an eight hour drive for us. We didn't
Speaker 1: have gas money where I had to sell a thirty thirty.
Speaker 1: His grandpa gave him to get gas money to go
Speaker 1: over there. But we were living and that so at
Speaker 1: that time that was it. And then it was like,
Speaker 1: well he moved to Alaska and it's like cool, Now
Speaker 1: what could we do? Oh, Kody akaio and that's that's
Speaker 1: pretty crazy. Get dropped off on Kodiak in November and
Speaker 1: hunt deer and how much this you know, deer tax
Speaker 1: on d sixty eight bucks and we could do this
Speaker 1: and that. So then it just progresses and then all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you're hunting brown bear. So I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's I don't know if it was in me.
Speaker 1: It took took time to find out. How did you, uh,
Speaker 1: what was your initial introduction to like the endurance world,
Speaker 1: I mean not not haunting based stuff, but like just
Speaker 1: competitive right. I didn't really have any I mean, I
Speaker 1: you know, I did. I do the ten k back
Speaker 1: home the Beauty to beaut and Eugene every fourth of July.
Speaker 1: And so then I did a half marathon out in Coburg,
Speaker 1: which is the town outside of Eugene, and uh, that
Speaker 1: seemed like a long thirteen point one miles and I
Speaker 1: was like, God, I wonder if I could do a marathon.
Speaker 1: So on two thousand two or three, I ran in
Speaker 1: along the Columbia River there Hood the Dallas to Hood
Speaker 1: River was the Gorge Marathon, and I got third and
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, you know, the Eagle Cap is thirty miles.
Speaker 1: By sixty miles, Roy had moved to Alaska, so I
Speaker 1: was hunting by myself. If I could talk somebody and
Speaker 1: to go, and they would go one time and they're
Speaker 1: like this sucks, I'm not going back, so I would
Speaker 1: be by myself. But I'm like, man, if I could run,
Speaker 1: if I can run twenty six miles, I can get
Speaker 1: out of the wilderness and a couple of hours if
Speaker 1: I have to. So then that huge wilderness didn't seem
Speaker 1: that big, and then that progress progressed up. My first
Speaker 1: fifty k in two thousand five, and I was running
Speaker 1: this fifty k and I'm like, god, this is crazy it.
Speaker 1: You know, it's thirty miles in the mountains and nobody
Speaker 1: ever does this. And I see these runners coming up
Speaker 1: coming there. I'm getting about a mile from the finish.
Speaker 1: They're running back towards me. And I get to the finish,
Speaker 1: I'm exhausted, you know, hurt. And I said, I said,
Speaker 1: I saw these guys, these four guys running back back
Speaker 1: up the trail. And they said, oh yeah, they're getting
Speaker 1: ready for Western States. And I said, what's the Western States?
Speaker 1: And they go the Western States one, and I said,
Speaker 1: A hundred miles. I said, they go, yeah, they're running
Speaker 1: the course twice today to prepare And I'm like what.
Speaker 1: So I thought that I had done the most craziest
Speaker 1: thing ever and their training doing it twice. So I'm
Speaker 1: like this Western States. So I did the Big Horn
Speaker 1: one on my first hundred in in um In, Wyoming.
Speaker 1: It's a hard hundred. It took me twenty nine hours,
Speaker 1: is terrible. The next year I did the Western States,
Speaker 1: the race they're preparing for, and there the goal was
Speaker 1: let's get let's break twenty four hours, you get the
Speaker 1: silver buckle. So I did it in one, so I
Speaker 1: got my buckle. So that was It's kind of just
Speaker 1: like hunting is like an evolution. And then I was like,
Speaker 1: I want to narrow one on that race, the one.
Speaker 1: So you spent how many hours? Which one Western? The one?
Speaker 1: If you break twenty four one and out of those
Speaker 1: this might seem like a dumpt question, but out of
Speaker 1: those hours, how many of those hours are you actually
Speaker 1: on the move? Like did you stop at all? So
Speaker 1: you never you never stopped and took like a twenty
Speaker 1: minute power nap? No, no, I mean you. So now
Speaker 1: I've done a two hundred and thirty eight mile race,
Speaker 1: and even in those um the best of the best
Speaker 1: two nights is hard that third night people the best
Speaker 1: of the best can go two nights and finish. Took
Speaker 1: me for that race took me seventy eight hours and
Speaker 1: I slept two hours. So you want you want to
Speaker 1: go through with no sleep. You want to always move.
Speaker 1: Your body will reset in a you know a girl
Speaker 1: who I trained with who's one of the best of
Speaker 1: the world, she's done this before, and I did this
Speaker 1: in that race. But you'll like doze off for a minute.
Speaker 1: Your body resets. It's almost like a control of the
Speaker 1: lete for your computer. And you wait. Like I was
Speaker 1: with my brother and I was like, he was pacing me,
Speaker 1: and I nodded off and I came back and I
Speaker 1: was like, I said, you know, how long was I sleep?
Speaker 1: He's like a minute. I'm like, let's go. And so
Speaker 1: it's weird. And this was while you're running, no stopped, stopped,
Speaker 1: And I was like, you're saying he was pacing you,
Speaker 1: and so almost sounded yeah, that's got some version of
Speaker 1: that has to happen. You sort of like lose your
Speaker 1: lucidity now and then for a minute. Yeah, probably. I mean,
Speaker 1: if we're there, let's talk about hallucinations when you're going nothing. Ever,
Speaker 1: Courtney does Courtney who had trained was she does? She
Speaker 1: has a T shirt that she made with a leopard
Speaker 1: in a hammock because she was running and saw this
Speaker 1: leopard in a hammock. But yeah, so yeah, anyway, so
Speaker 1: you go, so you go that long without but but
Speaker 1: when you if you take that one minute, thing in
Speaker 1: your body resets. Why not why not capitalize on that
Speaker 1: and do a bunch of resets? Or is that not
Speaker 1: how it works? Some It doesn't always work. It doesn't
Speaker 1: always work. I mean, um, if you can get like,
Speaker 1: if you can get an hour, say after that second night,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a lot. An hour would be a lot.
Speaker 1: Sometimes though, you you pop right back and you're like, man,
Speaker 1: it seemed like I would sleep for hours, but you weren't.
Speaker 1: You can't do that for you know, you're like tricking
Speaker 1: your body. But pretty soon your body is like, okay,
Speaker 1: we're done. What's your version of recovering from those races?
Speaker 1: Like do you go home and milkshake and lay on
Speaker 1: the couch or takes it takes a wy for your body?
Speaker 1: I mean it takes You're not I mean for a
Speaker 1: month for sure, I can tell my legs or but
Speaker 1: do you are you continuing to run afterwards or do
Speaker 1: you give yourself a period of time off? Yeah, I'd
Speaker 1: say a few days after two. Yeah does that tear
Speaker 1: your feet up? Yeah? You're all bloody and yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: Bears of running shoes you go through in a year,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what what shoe do
Speaker 1: you wear from one of those? Um well, I've been
Speaker 1: sponsored by under Armor up until this year, so I've
Speaker 1: been wearing under Armor. In this last race, I wore
Speaker 1: new Balance. So but so what I found out is
Speaker 1: my feet don't get torn up what they used to
Speaker 1: because now that a secret is you like put vastly
Speaker 1: in all over your toes and then put your socks on,
Speaker 1: and then put your shoe on, and what what your
Speaker 1: toes rubbing together and getting dirt and grime and stuff
Speaker 1: in there. That's just causing blisters for the most part.
Speaker 1: So that I like, I just did that marathon, which
Speaker 1: is no big deal. But I mean I didn't have
Speaker 1: one spot on my feet, you know, so in the
Speaker 1: last hundred I did, I didn't really have anything, because
Speaker 1: I did that, So they gotta just be like shoe
Speaker 1: leather by now, right. Yeah, I mean I trained with
Speaker 1: no socks, just running shoes and just too tough and
Speaker 1: on my feet. Yeah. So but you're see your feet
Speaker 1: still are pretty sensitive and they're taking you know, in
Speaker 1: a marathon it's steps, so you know, it's they're getting pounded.
Speaker 1: Do you have anything that's like starting to wear out
Speaker 1: as far as knees and ankles or like, I don't
Speaker 1: put any energy into that. Yeah, I mean I feel
Speaker 1: it takes me a little bit too your warmed up.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean relatively speaking. You know, I got
Speaker 1: I got some I'm banged up a little bit, but
Speaker 1: I mean I can still run. Chronic pain, um, not
Speaker 1: right now, but but running pains in the mind, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. I don't. You've avoided like major injury and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Yeah. Never, So, I mean part of it,
Speaker 1: I'm sure it's genetic. I have good, good joints. Um.
Speaker 1: I eat. You know, I don't drink um, haven't drank
Speaker 1: for a while. Uh. I eat pretty clean wild game. Um.
Speaker 1: So I you know, other than the sleep, I do
Speaker 1: a lot of I do the hot tub, cold tub.
Speaker 1: I do massage, So I mean, my body is pretty good,
Speaker 1: pretty fit. You know, one thing I wonder when I
Speaker 1: look at the race and you do in the endurance stuff,
Speaker 1: is when you um, I guess it might be hard
Speaker 1: to answer it because you've been doing it so long,
Speaker 1: But when you look at just like the nuts and
Speaker 1: bolts hunting stuff right like you're just hunting, do you
Speaker 1: feel that that that that the endurance world translates in
Speaker 1: any kind of direct way? So do you start thinking
Speaker 1: of distances just very differently, and like getting up at
Speaker 1: a certain time to get into a certain place, you
Speaker 1: just started thinking of like it's not an issue, not distances,
Speaker 1: but but challenges. I don't I used to have the
Speaker 1: same challenge as everybody else. I like, I gotta get
Speaker 1: all the way up over this ridge. When you've done
Speaker 1: two hundred miles, You're not worth a ridge is no
Speaker 1: big deal, you know what I mean. So it's like
Speaker 1: it's just like you look at things differently. So when
Speaker 1: you look at things differently, you internalize them differently. So
Speaker 1: if you get up over the ridge and a lot
Speaker 1: of times, you know your nervous system can only stand
Speaker 1: so much stimulus, So you think about this ridge and
Speaker 1: climbing up that's kind of you're making your nervous system fire, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I gotta do this, you know, body
Speaker 1: language type stuff. And so by the time you get
Speaker 1: over there, maybe you work in. Maybe it's the end
Speaker 1: of the day, maybe you've had haven't had enough calories
Speaker 1: in your nervous systems and thinking about all this challenge
Speaker 1: and you've gotta get back to the truck. So you're
Speaker 1: thinking about that, and then you get that opportunity, you
Speaker 1: can't be at your best. To me, I don't put
Speaker 1: any energy into getting over the ridge, worried about getting
Speaker 1: back nothing. So when I my nervous system isn't getting taxed.
Speaker 1: It's all dedicated to making the perfect shot when that happens.
Speaker 1: When you say your nervous system, just mean your mental state. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like, so it's your body. Um, I don't. I
Speaker 1: think like athletes, that's why they try to stay so calm,
Speaker 1: like before the Olympics or a fighter, you know, before
Speaker 1: a fight, because just being wound up, you're not at
Speaker 1: your best because you're nervous system can only operate optimally
Speaker 1: for a certain amount of time, and then then you
Speaker 1: get tired. So it's say, for example, like in an
Speaker 1: endurance race, if you don't have sunglasses on and your
Speaker 1: squinting at the at the end of a long run,
Speaker 1: that can make a difference wear on you. You want
Speaker 1: to have all you want to have sunscreen, you wanna
Speaker 1: have sunglasses. You want to be as comfortable and relaxed
Speaker 1: as possible, because then you put more energy into whatever
Speaker 1: endeavor you're doing. Hunting is no different. So if I'm
Speaker 1: not thinking about all these distractions and challenges, all my
Speaker 1: energy and and focuses on what I'm there to do
Speaker 1: is just kill. Yeah. So it's maybe I'm not explaining
Speaker 1: it right, but I mean you're explaining it perfectly well.
Speaker 1: Like your your mind can think your body into stress
Speaker 1: and then you have physical signs that stress that take energy.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, physical it's like impediments, you know. And it's uh, yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're not What I always say to is like,
Speaker 1: if the hunt on that hunt at that time is
Speaker 1: the hardest thing you've done, there's no way you could
Speaker 1: expect to be at your best. That can't be the hardest.
Speaker 1: That's the hardest thing you've done. There's no way you're
Speaker 1: gonna build. You might make the shot you probably won't,
Speaker 1: you know, go ahead. I was gonna say. That's what
Speaker 1: got me into starting to actually run more and more
Speaker 1: consecutive days, because I realized that even though I was
Speaker 1: getting great running shape, I'm like, when I go on
Speaker 1: a lot of times, it's like a one week backcountry
Speaker 1: al and that's gonna be my Cavell hunt most likely,
Speaker 1: like the one hunt I really want to do, just
Speaker 1: live it out of the backpack and go bow hunting.
Speaker 1: But that's seven days in a row of going ridge
Speaker 1: after ridge after ridge after ridge and on. And so
Speaker 1: I started thinking like, well, I gotta train that way too,
Speaker 1: And so I started like, Okay, you might not do
Speaker 1: ten miles every day, but I should like at least
Speaker 1: go every day so that my body is just like
Speaker 1: when it gets there, it's like, oh yeah, this isn't
Speaker 1: a big deal to just My goal is always like
Speaker 1: I just want to stroll the mountains comfortably for many
Speaker 1: days in a row, you know. And if I feel like,
Speaker 1: if I can get to the end of the week
Speaker 1: and be like, ah, I still feel like I could
Speaker 1: go another day, then I did. I probably did well.
Speaker 1: And I didn't like like you're saying, like be halfway through,
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, another ridge. Most people are
Speaker 1: give a good effort the first day or two, and
Speaker 1: then it's like, to get the wind right, you should
Speaker 1: go all the way around the top. They get here
Speaker 1: and they're like, that's probably good enough. The winds kind
Speaker 1: of cording, but it's gonna go over. So you kind
Speaker 1: of take these little shortcuts because you're just because you're tired,
Speaker 1: just because you're like, I don't even if you're not
Speaker 1: admitting to yourself you're tired, you're looking for shortcuts. So
Speaker 1: to me, I'm like, I need to get all the
Speaker 1: way to the backside of the ridge and come all
Speaker 1: the way to the top. That's just how you have
Speaker 1: to do it. I don't. It's not it doesn't even
Speaker 1: do any good to think about some other shortcut. So
Speaker 1: and really, on a long hunt, the way I look
Speaker 1: at it is by day ten and I've killed bowls
Speaker 1: on nine and you know, way way deep into the hunt. Um,
Speaker 1: you should be better than you were on day one
Speaker 1: because you're more in tune with mounts. You're a little
Speaker 1: should be a little tougher because you're like, it's hard
Speaker 1: to be tough all the time in the regular world.
Speaker 1: We get have you can get take a drink whenever
Speaker 1: you want. In the mountains, you're like, should I'm out
Speaker 1: of water? I gotta whatever? So um, But by day
Speaker 1: ten you should be tougher. You should know the an
Speaker 1: most should know the train. You should know kind of
Speaker 1: have this thing patterned and then so you have more
Speaker 1: experience in that setting of when you're hunting, and you
Speaker 1: should be so you should be better than you were
Speaker 1: on day one instead of worse. You know, if you
Speaker 1: go in and you're physically you're still with all those
Speaker 1: other factors, you should be better. Do you think that
Speaker 1: everybody has the capability to like, uh, you know, to
Speaker 1: improve their mental state somewhat? Or do you find people
Speaker 1: that just are never gonna learn to deal with these
Speaker 1: these like stressors or like the nervous system override. I know,
Speaker 1: I think I think people are capable of a lot
Speaker 1: more than what they think. I think they they they
Speaker 1: give up mentally. Their body doesn't need to give up,
Speaker 1: so if they could. You know, what I've learned in
Speaker 1: training with these people, you know, like Courting or these Olympians,
Speaker 1: is that the body and even what I've done in
Speaker 1: my training, even though I'm not at that level, but
Speaker 1: the day after day after day. What I say is
Speaker 1: your body gives that you ask of it. If you don't,
Speaker 1: if you don't ask much, it's not going to give
Speaker 1: you much if you ask a lot, or to give
Speaker 1: you a lot. So with that comes confidence, and I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: it everybody is capable of I'm not gonna say greatness,
Speaker 1: but man, when you're talking hunting, they're capable of doing some.
Speaker 1: You're capably getting it done on a hunt, for sure,
Speaker 1: like more than you might think you can. When you're
Speaker 1: talking about that nervous like you you're you're talking about
Speaker 1: the nervous system. Um. That's a thing that I struggle with,
Speaker 1: uh as I find that super high wind, cold temperatures,
Speaker 1: you know, when it gets like you know, blow tan
Speaker 1: or blow zero, becomes harder to concentrate. Problems seem bigger problems,
Speaker 1: things that you wouldn't normally think of, seems like a
Speaker 1: big deal. Setting your tent up all of a sudden
Speaker 1: seems like yeah, because like everything requires a bunch of thought,
Speaker 1: you know, and I've often pictured like if you just
Speaker 1: get through that. The thing I'm always trying to tell
Speaker 1: my kids is like just in certain situations, And I
Speaker 1: don't put them in like stressful situations, but in situations
Speaker 1: to them as young people find stressful, try to be
Speaker 1: like just calm down, like don't get like even like
Speaker 1: like a bee lands on their drink or something like
Speaker 1: just don't do that. You don't get jumpy like that,
Speaker 1: Like people don't want to be around jumpie people like
Speaker 1: just down. Nobody likes that. But then at the same time,
Speaker 1: I realized, like I'll even find like cold weather, high winds.
Speaker 1: I'm breathing differently, Yeah, humans, it's not you're thinking differently,
Speaker 1: definitely thinking differently. Yeah, yeah. You realize like why why
Speaker 1: am I it's windy and it's called old? Why am
Speaker 1: I contracting all my muscles right now? Like this has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with wind and cold. But I like
Speaker 1: catch myself realized, you're like your jaw, my teeth are clinched,
Speaker 1: and I'm actually like flexed, muttering curse words to yourself.
Speaker 1: That's because you just need more fat on your body.
Speaker 1: You need the wind of the wind is still the wind,
Speaker 1: like a high, deafening wind makes me like That's the
Speaker 1: one thing Steve complains about consistently is wind. He doesn't
Speaker 1: complain a lot. But wind makes the wind does a thing.
Speaker 1: My body react to it like it like it like
Speaker 1: like I said, it makes me like clench my teeth
Speaker 1: high wind cam. Have you gotten to the point like
Speaker 1: for me on like a bad country hunt, like tough terrain,
Speaker 1: it's always easier to like maintain that like positive outlook
Speaker 1: when there's someone else around, maybe a couple other people around.
Speaker 1: Like if you gotten to the point where you can
Speaker 1: just stay tough when you're by yourself or do you
Speaker 1: still find it easier with other people? No? I mean
Speaker 1: I like to be by myself definitely, because with somebody
Speaker 1: else you have to a lot of times you have
Speaker 1: to motivate them, you have to check out, and it's
Speaker 1: like this whole thing. Um, And sometimes I don't. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would prefer to be by myself. Um. Roy had
Speaker 1: the same mindset. One thing about Roy is that he
Speaker 1: was always in a good mood. It didn't matter what
Speaker 1: the situation, was, always confident. And it's like I remember
Speaker 1: when I killed that dollar sheep with him, I screwed
Speaker 1: up on the shot. I actually hit the doll sheep
Speaker 1: in the ankle like front like cut its wrist basically
Speaker 1: and I get back up to him and I was
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, and he goes, uh he
Speaker 1: was a nice shot. I said, yeah he I said, well,
Speaker 1: he goes, well it's bleeding. He goes, We'll get it,
Speaker 1: I know, because it might be a week from now.
Speaker 1: And so it was always whatever, we're just gonna get
Speaker 1: it done, is whatever. It didn't matter. It was never
Speaker 1: we weren't going to get it done. And so that
Speaker 1: that's hard to find in another person. You know. They
Speaker 1: say a hunting partner's hard to find than a wife.
Speaker 1: And it's like having somebody with the same mindset. If
Speaker 1: you have this mindset, well you'll do whatever is take
Speaker 1: find somebody that it's hard to do. I went through
Speaker 1: a lot of people, and um, so if you can
Speaker 1: have that on your own, then that's simplifies. Yeah, definitely better.
Speaker 1: That was my one takeaway that really stuck me. Stuck
Speaker 1: with me from backcountry bow hunting. I probably read that.
Speaker 1: I think I came to Montan the first time hunt
Speaker 1: with a buddy and like oh six or oh seven,
Speaker 1: and I think that's right when that book came out, right,
Speaker 1: So I must have had a year or two after that,
Speaker 1: and when I came back at oh nine, and we're
Speaker 1: doing a fair amount of hunting like that, working out
Speaker 1: of our backpacks already. So like a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: in the book I was like familiar with, but the
Speaker 1: one thing that stuck with me was about hunting partners
Speaker 1: I can't know. And I was gonna bring the book,
Speaker 1: but I realized I gave it to that dude. I
Speaker 1: never got it back, So now I'm stuck here. I
Speaker 1: can't get my book signed. But like in there somewhere,
Speaker 1: you're you talk about having to like make decisions about
Speaker 1: who you're gonna hunt with because some people want to
Speaker 1: have more of a good time and they're gonna weigh
Speaker 1: that against like hunting hard and being successful. And I
Speaker 1: remember thinking about the guy that I was hunting with
Speaker 1: at that time and be like, you know, he likes
Speaker 1: that first thing a lot and like like and and
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that. If that's your style of hunting, great,
Speaker 1: But I had that drive at that time where I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, next time we hunt together, I
Speaker 1: might just take off for a few days if that's okay,
Speaker 1: you know, And uh, but yeah, that really that was
Speaker 1: influential and an impact in me because I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, you're just gonna have to maybe go hunt
Speaker 1: by yourself. Yeah, and that's uh. It is like I said,
Speaker 1: getting some me on the exact same page of you
Speaker 1: as you is difficult. But if you're at that that
Speaker 1: because it's like for us, it didn't matter how miserable
Speaker 1: we were, it had nothing to do. The very first
Speaker 1: time we were in the Ego Cap Wilderness, I did
Speaker 1: kill a spike bowl on that hunt, but it got
Speaker 1: down in the Grand which is down off the mountain.
Speaker 1: It was eight degrees and we were up there and
Speaker 1: I had I talked about this in that book, but
Speaker 1: I had like the sleeping bag with the pheasants on
Speaker 1: the flannel on the inside line, and I was like,
Speaker 1: had the these wool pants that were too big for
Speaker 1: me that I got an Action surplus, you know, a
Speaker 1: military supply, and I had. I was sleeping with my
Speaker 1: boots on everything. It's so cold, and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: go destroy. I said, are you having fun? And he goes,
Speaker 1: he goes, no, But once we kill something and we
Speaker 1: get home and we get to tell everybody about this trip,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have fun. And he goes, We're not always
Speaker 1: gonna have fun on a hunt, and I was just
Speaker 1: like that was like the first time because I was
Speaker 1: my first wilderness. Is like, it's not always gonna be fun,
Speaker 1: but what's your goal? Is your goal to be comfortable
Speaker 1: and have fun or is your goal to kill? And
Speaker 1: so then it was like ever since then, which was
Speaker 1: you know, early nineties, is like comfort means nothing there
Speaker 1: to kill? That's it? Have you when was the time
Speaker 1: when you didn't live up to your own ideal? Right?
Speaker 1: Like yeah, you kind of haunted by sometimes and you're like,
Speaker 1: ship man, I didn't do the thing I said people
Speaker 1: ought to do. Um m hmm. Probably let's see. It
Speaker 1: would have to be something about you know, discipline, uh
Speaker 1: about you know I made I've made a lot of
Speaker 1: mistakes coming up about I'm a lot better now about
Speaker 1: being disciplined with the shot with my sometimes as an
Speaker 1: as a new not a new bow hunter because I've
Speaker 1: and doing it for thirty seven years now, so it's
Speaker 1: been a while since I've been a new bow hunter.
Speaker 1: But you take the the first decent shot instead of
Speaker 1: high percentage shot, you know what I mean. It's like
Speaker 1: when when I first hunt, it was gonna be like
Speaker 1: I might I don't know if I'm gonna get how
Speaker 1: many shots I'm gonna get? This might be the best
Speaker 1: I get. And so just being disciplined and waiting, you know,
Speaker 1: for ELK, it's pretty I'm I'm hardly ever it's quartering
Speaker 1: away or broadside, I'm hardly ever forcing stuff. I just
Speaker 1: after I say this, I just forced one on on
Speaker 1: my Arizona Hut last year and killed the bull. But
Speaker 1: it's it's like being disciplined when you've been thinking about
Speaker 1: this thing for maybe your whole life. It's if it's
Speaker 1: like your tag words, you know, five tags and you
Speaker 1: get to hunt the buffer zone. So you've been probably
Speaker 1: thinking about this for a long time and then that
Speaker 1: that crunch time is there. Being disciplined right then is
Speaker 1: very difficult and I've let myself down. Um so you're
Speaker 1: talking about by taking shots, not by not taking shots.
Speaker 1: Taking shots, I'm always always too aggressive um or air
Speaker 1: on the two aggressive side as opposed to too passive.
Speaker 1: So it's just forcing shots. Yeah, so I've I'm a looted.
Speaker 1: I mean last bowl I missed two thousand nine. So
Speaker 1: it's like I'm pretty pretty disciplined on the shot. Wow,
Speaker 1: that's impressive. I have missed one since then yeah, that's
Speaker 1: really counting. That's counting your shots and trying to you know,
Speaker 1: it's uh, yeah, I mean I have had to have
Speaker 1: some follow up shots more than one arrows. But yeah,
Speaker 1: do you uh and describe your book to people? Is
Speaker 1: it more do you picture it more like um? Do
Speaker 1: you picture it more like people would read it to
Speaker 1: inform how they live their life? Or do you picture
Speaker 1: people reading it just to hear like a good story
Speaker 1: about an American life? You know? Oh no, no it's not.
Speaker 1: It's hopefully to help people to be because so if
Speaker 1: you look at it's like, you know, divorced parents, My
Speaker 1: dad was an alcoholic. I stepped out as an alcoholic.
Speaker 1: Um uh, moved out or lived on my own when
Speaker 1: I seventeen, no expectations. So it's just like you can
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, none of that ship matters, It doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: none of them. Everybody has these challenges. It's just how
Speaker 1: you overcome and how you set yourself up, um or
Speaker 1: how you look at your perspective. It's like and so
Speaker 1: I hope that my story will help people like dream big,
Speaker 1: you know, achieve more type you know's I had that
Speaker 1: in that old back country book and it's true. It's
Speaker 1: just like I don't know, I don't I don't want
Speaker 1: people to play it safe. I want people to Uh no,
Speaker 1: you know this is this is a circumstance I'm in now.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that's gonna affect where I'm going. So
Speaker 1: that's hopefully it does that. M hm. I mean I
Speaker 1: appreciate you guys having me here and getting this opportunity.
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, we were trying to work on this
Speaker 1: years ago and never happened. Rihanna helped me make this
Speaker 1: happen this time. And um, so I I you know,
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan of meat.
Speaker 1: Eat what you've built here, your guys rolling all this.
Speaker 1: Um you coming up as a from Michigan, coming out
Speaker 1: west and and making your market's it's inspiring to me.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm honored to be here. I appreciate And uh,
Speaker 1: I think that doing a book is something to celebrate.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad you're here for that rather than something else.
Speaker 1: And um, you did the audio version. Yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 1: I heard a snippet that that you didn't like that
Speaker 1: process so hard. God, I did not realize how hard
Speaker 1: that is going to be I didn't know read. You know,
Speaker 1: there's another thing. You're going into a room and read
Speaker 1: the damn book. Yeah, and God have an energy. And
Speaker 1: you know I didn't. I didn't realize how many words
Speaker 1: I skip when I read, you know, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: like when you're actually reading something you're not reading like
Speaker 1: and I'm like, they said, yeah, back on the next
Speaker 1: that line, whatever you missed whatever word, And I'm like,
Speaker 1: what I didn't. I didn't know I've missed skip over words?
Speaker 1: You know what they call that? Because by I have
Speaker 1: we have a young boy who's learning to read. Those
Speaker 1: are memory words. Oh really, and it was so funny,
Speaker 1: is uh he as assigned memory words. It's funny because
Speaker 1: you'll see these words that like everybody knows, like oh
Speaker 1: and yeah, but to have him encounter it and have
Speaker 1: to every time my kid is the same. I'm glad
Speaker 1: that you don't even you don't even need to say it,
Speaker 1: just it's and why are you read? Discovering and all
Speaker 1: the time and just never mind network. But is that
Speaker 1: is that like translating you speed reading? Like when you
Speaker 1: know when people read to themselves, like being able to
Speaker 1: speed read and then having to verbalize the brain yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: because I read fast. To myself, I read fast. I
Speaker 1: can get through a book very quickly. But reading it,
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh my god, was there ever
Speaker 1: the option for someone else to do the reading? I
Speaker 1: can't do it. It's never as good, it's never as good.
Speaker 1: Just it's just horrible. Man. So you insisted on doing it? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Did they ask you to do it? Um? I just
Speaker 1: said I was going to do it. Yeah. I just
Speaker 1: said because I just know, like with Goggins, Um, he
Speaker 1: had somebody else. He did like this in between the
Speaker 1: chapters type thing, but he had somebody else read it,
Speaker 1: and hearing somebody else, I would love to have heard
Speaker 1: him say what he was, you know, what he's going through.
Speaker 1: But so, I mean at that time, and I've listened
Speaker 1: to other books too, I think trying to think who's
Speaker 1: who else is? But it's always better when the author
Speaker 1: does it. I think. Yeah, but the finished product, and
Speaker 1: you're selling it real strong to listeners with the finished
Speaker 1: product's cool, right, I mean you're happy with it? The audio?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I guess. I mean it's cool because because
Speaker 1: Joe does a forward and Goggins does what's called the afterword,
Speaker 1: So that's cool that Joe read is forward. Yeah he
Speaker 1: did on the audio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he killed it.
Speaker 1: Well it's great. Yeah, he's so good at that stuff.
Speaker 1: But he's so you know is you know, he's very
Speaker 1: supportive of his friends and just for him. You know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I said, I go, you doing the forward
Speaker 1: probably just on the advance probably made me two dollars.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's like, oh well Joe, Joe Rogan is
Speaker 1: gonna read the forward. They're like, oh yeah, okay, well
Speaker 1: what can you do two bucks for us? I saw
Speaker 1: you had a six book deal or something, right, don't
Speaker 1: don't you have to pump out some more book? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we had a big We had a big you know,
Speaker 1: it seems like more we we have a lot, like
Speaker 1: we have a lot of books lined up. Um, all
Speaker 1: those books come along there, bro, I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: we asked that question. Look over at we did that.
Speaker 1: We got a book. We got a um we got
Speaker 1: like an activity book for kids we're doing that's like
Speaker 1: a book about raising outdoor kids. We got activity book
Speaker 1: for kids are doing. We got kind of like a
Speaker 1: we're gonna we haven't really got rolling on it, but
Speaker 1: we're gonna do a sort of like um Atlas of
Speaker 1: the American outdoorsman like ship you ought to go look
Speaker 1: at that's gonna yeah, and it's like everywhere what I
Speaker 1: want to do one part, If I want to have
Speaker 1: everywhere every mountain man died and got malled by a bear,
Speaker 1: we got shot, you won't have to travel far for
Speaker 1: some of those, so you can go and be like,
Speaker 1: to the best of our knowledge, if you want to
Speaker 1: stand where Hugh Glass got mauled by a grizzly, I'd
Speaker 1: go stand right about here. So um and then we
Speaker 1: got an outdoor cooking cookbook. Yah. He's been working on
Speaker 1: that with us too, mostly Brodie again. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1: But now I like man. I like books, Man, I
Speaker 1: like them a lot. Uh So this obviously everywhere everywhere
Speaker 1: books are sold in the audio book is ere you
Speaker 1: go to listen on books. So if you go on
Speaker 1: your phone, assuming you gotta help, you get a lot
Speaker 1: of you gotta who's in Here's got to Android. If
Speaker 1: you got an iPhone, right, you just go to the
Speaker 1: native books app. It's orange, looks like a book, click
Speaker 1: that type in endor pop should I guess? So? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Trust me? Okay, I know the audio books selling a
Speaker 1: lot more than it's like the audio book is. They're
Speaker 1: pretty happy with how how good it's selling already. That's great.
Speaker 1: That's great man. So again everywhere books are sold audio
Speaker 1: version print versions kind of. It's it's a very attractive
Speaker 1: large format print version. It's got a tone of photographs
Speaker 1: in it. Um, you know, I'd recommend this one over
Speaker 1: the audio. I don't know. It's it's like like I said,
Speaker 1: it's a beautifully done large somewhat large format book. Uh.
Speaker 1: Endure How to Work Hard, outlast, and Keep Hammering by
Speaker 1: Cameron Haynes, Forward by Joe Rogan, available now. Um, if
Speaker 1: you wish you could run farther or shoot straighter, Yeah,
Speaker 1: this book is for you. And and who of us
Speaker 1: does that not apply to? So appreciate you. Coming on, Oh, everybody,
Speaker 1: stay tuned. Uh, Cam's gonna join us for Cam's gonna
Speaker 1: join us for a round of trivia. We gotta go
Speaker 1: find trivia our trivia man Spencer new Heart And just
Speaker 1: check on your next the next thing that pops up
Speaker 1: on the download list and you'll hear media or trivia
Speaker 1: game on Suckers. Thanks can Eve