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Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Law with June Grusso from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: Today, I'm announcing actions to bar migrants who cross our

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Speaker 2: southern border unlawfully from receiving a stylum.

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Speaker 3: On Tuesday, President Joe Biden announced a sweeping executive action

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Speaker 3: making it harder for migrants who illegally crossed the southern

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Speaker 3: border to get asylum, his most significant action to address

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Speaker 3: the migrant crisis that has threatened his reelection. Biden said

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Speaker 3: the Republicans left him no choice but to act alone

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Speaker 3: when they blocked a bipartisan border agreement.

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Speaker 2: I'm moving past republic instruction and using executive authorities available

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Speaker 2: to me as president to do what I can on

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Speaker 2: my own to address the border.

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Speaker 3: Biden's executive action was criticized by both Republicans and progressives,

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Speaker 3: and his own party and former President Donald Trump slam

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Speaker 3: the move during a rally.

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Speaker 1: It's really pro illegal immigration.

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Speaker 4: It's great for illegal immigration.

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Speaker 3: Immigrants rights advocates say they'll sue the Biden administration over

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Speaker 3: these asylum restrictions, just as they successfully sued the Trump administration.

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Speaker 3: Joining me is Leon Fresco, a partner to Hollanden Knight,

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Speaker 3: he was the head of the Office of Immigration Litigation

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Speaker 3: at the Justice Department during the Obama administration. Leon tell

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Speaker 3: us about this new policy.

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Speaker 1: Starting now, if anyone tries to cross the border illegally

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Speaker 1: in between the ports of injury and ask for asylum,

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Speaker 1: they will be banned from doing it unless they were

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Speaker 1: a victim of human trafficking or had some sort of

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Speaker 1: urgent medical or humanitarian issue that was immediately evident to

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Speaker 1: the border patrol officials who apprehended the person. There is

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Speaker 1: a trigger that's being put in by executive order that's

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Speaker 1: using the travel ban authority, which President Trump used many

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Speaker 1: times during his presidency, And what they're saying is that

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Speaker 1: if there's ever a situation where more than twenty five

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Speaker 1: hundred people per day on average are crossing over any

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Speaker 1: given week, that gives them the authority to trigger this

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Speaker 1: ban procedure until such time as the daily crossings go

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Speaker 1: down to fifteen hundred people a week, which the last

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Speaker 1: time that's happened was during COVID where nobody was traveling anywhere,

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Speaker 1: and at the moment, because we have something around thirty

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Speaker 1: five hundred to four thousand crossings per day that exceeds

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Speaker 1: the twenty five hundred person threshold, which is why the

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Speaker 1: border will shut down, and essentially people asking for asylum

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Speaker 1: who are crossing the border will not be allowed to

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Speaker 1: do that any longer.

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Speaker 3: Are they allowed to apply for asylum at the ports

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Speaker 3: of entry.

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Speaker 1: With regard to the ports of entry, there are appointments

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Speaker 1: on an app on your phone called BBP one, and

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Speaker 1: there are about fifteen of those appointments every day, and

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Speaker 1: those will still be available and people will still be

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Speaker 1: allowed to do that because that's an orderly process and

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Speaker 1: one people can use without creating chaos on the border.

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Speaker 1: As opposed to they will not be able to cross

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Speaker 1: in between the ports of entry and ask for asylum.

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Speaker 1: They will be, according to this executive order, returned back,

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Speaker 1: which was the same thing that was being done with

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Speaker 1: COVID under the title forty two COVID Authority.

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Speaker 3: He's tapping executive powers outlined in section two twelve f

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Speaker 3: of the Immigration and Nationality Act. And that's the same

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Speaker 3: law that former President Trump used in the Muslim ban

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Speaker 3: of twenty seventeen and the twenty eighteen suspension of entry

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Speaker 3: of migrants between the ports of entry. Explain what that

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Speaker 3: law does.

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Speaker 1: So here is where This is going to get a

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Speaker 1: little complicated, June, and I want you and your listeners

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Speaker 1: to try to stay with me here because it will

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Speaker 1: all make sense in a second. All it says is

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Speaker 1: that the President, if the President thinks it's not in

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Speaker 1: the national interests of the United States, may ban the

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Speaker 1: entry of any category of non citizens that the President

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Speaker 1: deans is not in the national interests of the United

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Speaker 1: States to let them enter. So that is simple when

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Speaker 1: the foreign national is outside the United States. So suppose

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Speaker 1: you're at a US embassy in India and you're applying

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Speaker 1: for a visa. If there's a ban on Indian immigration

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Speaker 1: that the President put in on Ina, Section two twelve

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Speaker 1: F very simple, no visa can be issued. Or if

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Speaker 1: you're at an airport in Canada you're trying to fly

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Speaker 1: to the United States and there's a ban on flying

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Speaker 1: from Canada to the United States because we've banned Canadian

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Speaker 1: from coming in, that's a very easy ban to enact. Too.

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Speaker 1: Where it gets complicated is when someone has already crossed

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Speaker 1: the border and has already entered the United States. Then

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Speaker 1: this is a very important word entry, because what's a

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Speaker 1: complicated issue, because when you enter the United states illegally.

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Speaker 1: That's what makes you subject to prosecution for illegal entry.

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Speaker 1: You have to have an entry. It's an element of

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Speaker 1: the crime. Here's where this is problematic. Biden is saying

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Speaker 1: that this power to restrict entry also apply to people

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Speaker 1: who've already entered it. And that's what's going to be

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Speaker 1: the debate in the courts is whether that's true or not,

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Speaker 1: because there's a very strong argument that if Congress had

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Speaker 1: meant that, it would have said that. This is now

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Speaker 1: going to be about can you pretend that someone who

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Speaker 1: just entered minutes ago didn't really enter such that you

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Speaker 1: can kick them out like if they were applying in

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Speaker 1: India for a visa. But if that's true, then does

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Speaker 1: that eliminate, by the same token, the federal government's ability

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Speaker 1: to ever prosecute anyone again for illegal entry because that's

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Speaker 1: why we prosecute people, because we got them ten minutes

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Speaker 1: after entering. So I don't know how courts can thread

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Speaker 1: that needle and try to have both sides of both

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Speaker 1: of these arguments.

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Speaker 3: There always seems to be a catch with immigration law.

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Speaker 3: Maybe the courts will look up dictionary definitions of entry

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Speaker 3: to see if they can engage in this legal fiction. Now,

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Speaker 3: immigration advocates and progressives complain that this is just what

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Speaker 3: Trump did, but the administration has said this is not

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Speaker 3: comparable to Trump's system wide crackdowns. What do you think

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Speaker 3: It sounds a lot like it.

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Speaker 1: It is almost identical to what Trump did, with the

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Speaker 1: exception that they made some carve outs for unaccompanied children,

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Speaker 1: which is required under the Trafficking Victims Protection Act, and

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Speaker 1: also they made exceptions for people with urgent medical and

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Speaker 1: humanitarian claims and victims of human trafficking. But at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, all of those screenings are going

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Speaker 1: to be done very quickly by someone who's a border

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Speaker 1: patrol officer. That might not be their top priority at

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Speaker 1: the moment. They may have a security agenda that they're

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Speaker 1: trying to fulfill, and so asking if someone's been human

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Speaker 1: traffic may not be at the moment's top of mind.

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Speaker 1: And so what ends up happening is in its implementation,

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Speaker 1: it ends up being almost identical to the Trump band.

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Speaker 3: The attorney at the ACLU who successfully sued the Trump administration,

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Speaker 3: Lee Galleran, said a ban on asylum is illegal, just

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Speaker 3: as it was when Trump unsuccessfully tried it. Was the

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Speaker 3: argument in that case, the same as the argument you've

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Speaker 3: been describing for us.

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Speaker 1: That was the exact argument, which is that the asylum

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Speaker 1: statue specifically says it doesn't matter how you enter legally, illegally,

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Speaker 1: anything else, it doesn't matter. You can still apply for asylum.

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Speaker 1: Now this executive order means you can't apply for anything.

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Speaker 1: We're trying to do exactly what COVID did that lets

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Speaker 1: you kick people out. And the question is will this

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Speaker 1: entry be considered a fiction or not? And if it's

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Speaker 1: considered a fiction, then maybe the Supreme Court let's bite

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Speaker 1: it and get away with this. We know the Ninth

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Speaker 1: Circuit as binding president on this, So the Ninth Circuit

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Speaker 1: would actually have to go unbanked and reverse itself, which

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Speaker 1: is very unlikely if they're going to overrule this precedent

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Speaker 1: on the issue of entry and asylum. So the only

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Speaker 1: hope that the Biden administration is going to have is

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Speaker 1: to go to the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 3: For Biden to win, is it going to be the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court justices or at least five of them saying wink, wink, nod, nod,

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Speaker 3: it's okay, correct?

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Speaker 1: Will the Supreme Court ultimately give leeway to the Biden

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Speaker 1: administration to say that, yes, for this purpose, an entry

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Speaker 1: doesn't count as an entry. If we taught you ten

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Speaker 1: minutes after you entered, we will pretend that you still

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Speaker 1: didn't enter. He's going to need that. And then there's

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Speaker 1: a second ring coat we haven't even talked about yet.

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Speaker 1: He's then going to need the cooperation of the Mexican

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Speaker 1: government to repatriate people who are not Mexicans into Mexico,

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Speaker 1: which the Mexican government has no obligation to do. They're

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Speaker 1: doing it right now as a favorite to Americans at

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Speaker 1: a rate of thirty thousand per month, but this would

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Speaker 1: require much more than that. Remember, we're talking about at

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Speaker 1: the moment four thousand people per day, So if we

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Speaker 1: do some amateur mathematics here, we're talking about one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty thousand people per month. Is the Mexican government,

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Speaker 1: especially after this election, likely to do that?

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Speaker 3: Leon, You seem pretty sure that once the lawsuits are filed,

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Speaker 3: this executive order is going to be enjoined.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this thing is going to be enjoyed just because

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Speaker 1: it's binding Ninth Circuit presidents. But I do think the

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Speaker 1: Mind administration understands because they have very smart lawyers that

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Speaker 1: are there that the way this is going to play

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Speaker 1: out is they've written the executive order, now it's going

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Speaker 1: to be implemented. It will be immediately sued. There will

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Speaker 1: be an immediate injunction, so the order goes away, and

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Speaker 1: then they try to appeal to the Ninth Circuit and

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. Will be very interesting to see if

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Speaker 1: they try to take a five track or if they

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Speaker 1: try to take a slow track. That will be very

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Speaker 1: indicative of whether this was meant to be a political

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Speaker 1: gambit or whether this was meant to be a legitimate

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Speaker 1: border operation and procedure. If they take the slow road,

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Speaker 1: then we know this is over because nothing's going to

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Speaker 1: happen until the election. If they take the FIVET road,

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Speaker 1: I suppose the Supreme Court pen within the next thirty

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Speaker 1: days or so decide whether they want to stay an

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Speaker 1: injunction and allow this to go into effect, and we'll

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Speaker 1: have to wait and see it.

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Speaker 3: Administration officials said that individuals will be removed to their

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Speaker 3: country of origin in a matter of days, if not hours.

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Speaker 3: Does the Biden administration have enough resources to expel migrants

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Speaker 3: that quickly, So the answer to.

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Speaker 1: That question is going to be it depends what country

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Speaker 1: the person is from. For instance, if they're from Venezuela,

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Speaker 1: Zezuela's not accepting people who are trying to deport, and

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Speaker 1: Cuba is not really accepting people who are trying to deport,

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Speaker 1: and eighty has some very difficult conditions right now, so

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Speaker 1: it's difficult to support people in large scale and so

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Speaker 1: you start adding all of those up, and you start

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Speaker 1: getting significant chunks of people that you cannot deport very quickly.

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Speaker 1: China is another one. What are you going to be

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Speaker 1: doing with all of those people who are crossing the border.

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Speaker 1: Nothing really is going to be changing there unless Mexico

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Speaker 1: lets you bring them back into Mexico. But then they

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Speaker 1: become Mexico's problem, and then the question is, well, how

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Speaker 1: long is Mexico willing to deal with such a surge

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Speaker 1: of people inside of Mexico. So that's the complication here.

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Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, that's where we're at.

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Speaker 3: Much more legally complex than it seems at first. Thanks

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Speaker 3: so much for taking us through it. Leon, that's Leon

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Speaker 3: Fresco of Holland and Knight coming up next, the first

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Speaker 3: son of a US president to be prosecuted. I'm June

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Speaker 3: gross when you're listening to Bloomberg. The first trial of

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Speaker 3: a sitting president's son has been nothing if not dramatic.

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Speaker 3: Hunter Biden is charged with buying a gun while addicted

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Speaker 3: to drugs, and the prosecution has attempted to show in

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Speaker 3: a rather sensationalized way that Biden was driven by his

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Speaker 3: crack addiction, with testimony from his ex wife and former

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Speaker 3: lovers who describe seeing him in the throes of addiction,

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Speaker 3: with pictures of Biden with crackpipes, passed out or disheveled,

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Speaker 3: and with his own voice describing his descent into drugs

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Speaker 3: in an audiobook of his memoir.

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Speaker 5: I had no plan beyond the moment to moment demands

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Speaker 5: of the crackpipe.

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Speaker 3: The three felonies are all connected to Biden's checking no

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Speaker 3: on a single box on a federal gun application that

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Speaker 3: asked whether he was quote an unlawful user of or

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Speaker 3: addicted to drugs, joining me his former federal prosecutor, Joshua F.

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Speaker 3: Talis of Palace Partners. Hunter Biden has been charged with

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Speaker 3: three felonies lying to a federally licensed gun dealer making

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Speaker 3: a false claim on the application by saying he was

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Speaker 3: not a drug user and illegally having the gun for

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Speaker 3: eleven days. Is it unusual to charge three felonies all

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Speaker 3: based on the same action.

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Speaker 5: It's not necessarily unusual. The way prosecutors think of it

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Speaker 5: is give them three bites of the apple with the jury.

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Speaker 5: So if the jury only has one count to consider,

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Speaker 5: prosecutors can think we only have one shot at a conviction,

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Speaker 5: whereas this gives them an opportunity to get some sort

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Speaker 5: of a compromise verdict where you know they'll still win

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Speaker 5: if they get one conviction. But since the facts themselves

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Speaker 5: are relatively simple, I don't think you necessarily need to

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Speaker 5: charge him three times in the same conduct.

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Speaker 3: You have a drug addict with no criminal history misrepresenting

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Speaker 3: his addiction, allegedly misrepresenting his addiction on the purchase of

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Speaker 3: a firearm which he did not use. How often is that, prosecutor?

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Speaker 3: I mean, have you heard of any other prosecutions for this?

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Speaker 5: This is a very specific crime to charge, and my

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Speaker 5: understanding is it's very rare charged the idea that someone

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Speaker 5: lied allegedly on a form about a firearm that he

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Speaker 5: owned for eleven days. Usually these sort of things are

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Speaker 5: brought because, as you said, the firearm was used in

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Speaker 5: some way, was fired, and they're looking to hold the

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Speaker 5: person into account here there was no harm, and obviously

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Speaker 5: it's in dispute as to whether he even lied. So

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Speaker 5: I think there is a good argument that this is

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Speaker 5: the type of case is not typically brought, and but

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Speaker 5: for the fact that it's the president's son, it would

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Speaker 5: not have been brought.

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Speaker 3: Much of the prosecution's case has centered on showing the

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Speaker 3: seriousness of Hunter Biden's addiction smoking crack from the minute

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Speaker 3: he got up and every twenty minutes according to a

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Speaker 3: next girlfriend. But it's also painting him just as a

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Speaker 3: bad guy. I mean, cheating on his wife, getting his

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Speaker 3: late brother's widow addicted to crack drug fueled lifestyle, and

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Speaker 3: then you know the pictures they have of him in

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Speaker 3: a bathtub holding a crack pipe, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: Is the prosecution actually trying to paint him as a

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Speaker 3: bad guy.

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Speaker 5: So I think that's a great point. I mean, I

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Speaker 5: think what they're trying to do, they don't have a

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Speaker 5: witness who could say as of the date that mister

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Speaker 5: Biden signed the forms he was addicted. They don't have that.

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Speaker 5: What they have as ex girlfriends who said he was

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Speaker 5: a drug user before and intentionally after. They obviously have

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Speaker 5: his biography, and they're trying to dirty him up to

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Speaker 5: make it look like this really was an addict. You know,

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Speaker 5: it could backfire, right, if you try to smear somebody,

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Speaker 5: it can turn off jurors. And I think that's one

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Speaker 5: of the things that the prosecution may be overplaying its hand,

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Speaker 5: because they're certainly trying to smear him in a way

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Speaker 5: to make him just look like, as you said, you know,

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Speaker 5: an addict to his drug fuel. He was cheating on

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Speaker 5: his wife. If this is just a bad guy, but

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Speaker 5: there are plenty of people who may be sympathetic to

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Speaker 5: someone like him.

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Speaker 3: Not only plenty of people, but perhaps some of the jurors,

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Speaker 3: because four of the jurors say either a close family

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Speaker 3: member or a close friend was addicted to drugs, so

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Speaker 3: they may see his addiction in another way as gut

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Speaker 3: wrenching and hard to overcome, and maybe that he didn't

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Speaker 3: know what he was doing when he filled out the form.

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Speaker 5: Yeah exactly. I mean, I think the defense is trying

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Speaker 5: to prove that it wasn't a lie at the time

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Speaker 5: was told. And they're also going to try to paint

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Speaker 5: him as an imperfect man. But this isn't the type

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Speaker 5: of person that needs to be sent to jail. And

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Speaker 5: that's the kind of narrative that can register with You

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Speaker 5: only need one to hang the jury to register them. Say,

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Speaker 5: you know, I have people in my family who have

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Speaker 5: battled drug addiction, but that doesn't mean that, in fact

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Speaker 5: the type of person who should be sent to jail

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Speaker 5: for buying a firearm when the harm was done. So yes,

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Speaker 5: and I think that it's hard given who he is,

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Speaker 5: you know, as much as they've tried to screen out,

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Speaker 5: I'm sure people who have political views, it's the president's son,

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Speaker 5: and I think it's very hard for people to really

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Speaker 5: put that out of their mind, like, well, why are

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Speaker 5: we going after and smearing this man for a crime

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Speaker 5: that isn't typically enforced.

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Speaker 3: Speaking about being the president's son, the First Lady Jill Biden,

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Speaker 3: has been in the courtroom for most days of the trial,

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Speaker 3: sitting behind her son. And you usually see family members

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Speaker 3: sitting behind the defendants offering their moral support. But would

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Speaker 3: it be problematic in this case if there is a

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Speaker 3: juror who's not a Biden fan.

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Speaker 5: The juror is going to be instructed that who Hunter

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Speaker 5: Biden is shouldn't play any role in their deliberations. So

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Speaker 5: I tink everyone's hope is the fact that you may

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Speaker 5: not like President Bid. It should in a fact, how

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Speaker 5: you vote on Hunter Biden. But having your mom show

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Speaker 5: up is something that I think is often important to jurors.

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Speaker 5: That this is a person with a family. He's being

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Speaker 5: smeared for being, you know, an adulterer, for being a

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Speaker 5: drug addict, and his mom shows up to support him,

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Speaker 5: and she is the first lady after all, and that

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Speaker 5: really I think reinforces subconsciously that this is a case

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Speaker 5: that some people may disagree with.

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Speaker 3: The prosecution has played a lot of clips of Biden's memoir.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that's strong evidence?

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Speaker 5: I actually think this is their best evidence in terms

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Speaker 5: of they can say that Hunter Biden admitted in his

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Speaker 5: memoir that he was addicted to crack. I haven't read

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Speaker 5: the book. I don't know if he says between these

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Speaker 5: dates and these dates, including when I bought the gun,

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Speaker 5: I was addicted to crack. But it's pretty good evidence

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Speaker 5: when someone writes a book and then the audiobook is

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Speaker 5: narrated by him, so it's his own voice saying I

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Speaker 5: was an addict. But I think this is sort of

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Speaker 5: like the simplest and most elegant way for them to say, like,

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Speaker 5: what are we talking about? The guy admitted to it.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk about the defense. The defense attorney Abby Lowell

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Speaker 3: said in his opening statement that Hunter Biden didn't knowingly lie,

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Speaker 3: didn't knowingly violate the law, and the prosecution won't be

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Speaker 3: able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what hunter Biden's

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Speaker 3: state of mind was when he filled out the form.

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Speaker 3: Is that a good defense?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think it is a good argument. It's

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Speaker 5: sort of it's like a lawyer's argument in a way

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Speaker 5: which can register with the jury, which is it's impossible

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Speaker 5: to get inside someone's head as to what they were thinking.

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Speaker 5: And this isn't the type of case where they really

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Speaker 5: have a witness who can say, mister Biden confessed to

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Speaker 5: me that he knowingly filled out the form wrong, and

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Speaker 5: then they call that witness to say, oh, he knew

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Speaker 5: what he was doing was wrong. This is someone's interpretation,

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Speaker 5: as argued, as to what it means to be an addict,

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Speaker 5: and he didn't consider himself an addict to be addicted. Yes,

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Speaker 5: he may have used drugs, before and after he filled

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Speaker 5: out the form, you know, months before and paid months after.

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Speaker 5: But at the time he didn't think he was lying.

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Speaker 5: And then the end, that's all that matters is what

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Speaker 5: did he think he.

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Speaker 4: Was doing was wrong?

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Speaker 5: So you know, it's the kind of argument that could work.

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Speaker 5: It's also his best argument, which is to say he

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Speaker 5: didn't lie, so you can't convict him.

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Speaker 3: The other, even more technical argument is the defense says

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Speaker 3: the law prohibits someone who is using drugs from buying

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Speaker 3: a gun, and the form asks an applicant if they

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Speaker 3: are a user of drugs, so Biden may not have

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Speaker 3: been using drugs at the time, whereas the prosecution says

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Speaker 3: the law doesn't require the prosecution to prove he was

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Speaker 3: using drugs on the day he bought the gun. Is

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Speaker 3: that a jury question or should that be a question

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Speaker 3: for the judge?

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Speaker 5: It depends how the judge instructs them on the law.

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Speaker 5: But I think it's the kind of argument they can

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Speaker 5: register with the jury, which is is there an ambiguity

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Speaker 5: in this form, so that's that you shouldn't convict on it.

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Speaker 5: You know, if it says are you a drug user?

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Speaker 5: That could mean are using it now? As I sign

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Speaker 5: the form, and it's supposed to sort of kick you

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Speaker 5: off that you pa should and be buying a gun

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Speaker 5: when you're high or does it mean are you sort

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Speaker 5: of in this time period using drugs? So you know,

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Speaker 5: in terms of the argument, it's certainly not a bad argument.

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Speaker 5: It's the kind of argument that when you fill out

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Speaker 5: the form as a juror, you may say, like, well,

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Speaker 5: I could misunderstand that question. I can't convict somebody.

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Speaker 3: The prosecution has brought on his ex wife, his ex girlfriend,

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Speaker 3: and none of them can testify to his being addicted

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Speaker 3: to crack at the time he bought the gun. The

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Speaker 3: closest they have come is that Hallie Biden, his brother's widow,

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Speaker 3: whom he had an affair with, testified that on October

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Speaker 3: twenty third, she found the gun, remnants of crack, cocaine,

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Speaker 3: and some paraphernalia, but she wasn't able to say whether

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Speaker 3: Biden was on drugs the day he bought the gun.

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Speaker 3: That was October twelve. That's as close as they get.

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Speaker 3: Do you think they have to get closer than that?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think the prosecution is going to argue,

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Speaker 5: you know, you don't have the paraphernalia if you're not

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Speaker 5: a user. But what the defense will probably say in

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Speaker 5: their closing is, you know, they brought in these women

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Speaker 5: who of whom didn't want to be there, They were

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Speaker 5: subpoenaed and did everything they could to prove he was

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Speaker 5: a user. And they don't have anybody, including people who

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Speaker 5: loved him and were relationship with him, so who would

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Speaker 5: know him better. So it may be enough to win.

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Speaker 5: I think this comes back to the backfiring argument, which

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Speaker 5: is my sense is that these are not really willing witnesses.

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Speaker 5: They're answering the questions because they've been compelled to do so.

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Speaker 5: And if the people who are compelled to do so

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Speaker 5: are sympathetic, that can help mister Biden.

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Speaker 3: What about the charge of illegally having the gun for

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Speaker 3: eleven days? Will the same defenses work to counter that

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Speaker 3: as well?

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Speaker 5: So which interesting is like he's not being charged with

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Speaker 5: using the gun in connection with, for example, an narcotics transaction.

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Speaker 5: That's sort of often how firearm offenses are charged in

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Speaker 5: the federal system, which is like you're a drug dealer,

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Speaker 5: you sell drugs and you have a gun, and therefore

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Speaker 5: you can charge the use of the gun. Possessing a

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Speaker 5: gun is not a federal crime on its own, It's

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Speaker 5: a false statements case. So I think, you know, to

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Speaker 5: come back to the earlier question, it's really not a

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Speaker 5: case about his using the gun, owning it for eleven days?

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Speaker 5: Did he fill out the form wrong and lie? And

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Speaker 5: I think that just shows sort of the potential overreach

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Speaker 5: that the defense is going to say, like this really

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Speaker 5: isn't a federal case. They're trying to make it a

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Speaker 5: federal case.

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Speaker 3: The defense started presenting its case on Friday, and Hunter

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Speaker 3: Biden's daughter Naomi testified about visiting her father while he

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Speaker 3: was at a California rehab center and that he seemed

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Speaker 3: to be improving in the weeks before he bought the Revolver.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think the extent that this is a

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Speaker 5: soap opera like that will complete the stories for the jury,

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Speaker 5: which is, you know, the government has picked people who

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Speaker 5: were close to him and they can't pin it on him,

437
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Speaker 5: but they're also trying to depict him in the worst light.

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00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 5: And here mister Biden apparently is going to call people

439
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 5: who will say, actually, he was not addicted at the time,

440
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 5: and in fact, you know, the government's presenting a very

441
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 5: cropt view as to who this man is. So strategically

442
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 5: I think that makes sense, which is they're going to

443
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 5: humanize him and also try to put a lie to

444
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 5: the government's depiction of mister Biden, that that's just not

445
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 5: who he is. Yes, maybe he had a drug problem

446
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,160
Speaker 5: in the past, but that doesn't mean he's done anything

447
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 5: wrong here.

448
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 3: Soap opera is a great way to describe this. There's

449
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 3: as much happening outside the trial as inside the trial.

450
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 3: I mean, Hunter Biden walked into court on Thursday with

451
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 3: a copy of his memoir under his arm. He has

452
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 3: friends and family there all the time, and there was

453
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 3: sort of a prayer circle one morning, and apparently during

454
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 3: jury selection, at every break he would go over to

455
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 3: his mother and wife and kiss them. I don't know

456
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 3: if it's sincere, it's for the press, it's for the jury.

457
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,479
Speaker 5: I mean a lot of in court. As you know,

458
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 5: in court, dynamics are choreographed, which is, make sure you

459
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 5: greet your family, make sure you smile at the jury.

460
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 5: Maybe you'll bring your book because you know the jury

461
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 5: is judging you when you're sitting there, not just when

462
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 5: you testify or other witness are testified. They're looking at

463
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 5: you and you want to speak to them with your

464
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 5: sort of presentation that you're a good guy.

465
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 3: Basically, Biden's defense team said they want to take the

466
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 3: weekend to decide whether the defendant will take the stack

467
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 3: and in his own defense, what do you think?

468
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 5: My guess is that he does not testify because the

469
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 5: argument that the defense is this is sort of a crime

470
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 5: that should never been charged, and you haven't met your

471
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 5: Burton and to have him get up there and testify

472
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 5: is going to put more focus on him, and then

473
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 5: then they're going to be able to again march through

474
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 5: you know, when was the last time you use drugs?

475
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 5: My guess is that it could end up backfiring again,

476
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 5: obviously if there's a temptation to want to testify and say, like,

477
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 5: you know, this is ridiculous, But I think that he

478
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,159
Speaker 5: has enough problems, including his past affairs and drug use,

479
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 5: that they would sort of try to smear him again.

480
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 5: It's not the type of case you'd necessarily want your

481
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 5: client to testify in.

482
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 3: We'll find out on Monday for sure. Thanks josh. That's

483
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 3: Joshua F. Talus of Palace Partners. Coming up next the

484
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 3: Steakhouse stakeout. I'm June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg.

485
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 3: Since his indictment on bribery charges, New Jersey Senator Bob

486
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: Menendez has seen his political support vaporized in both the

487
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 3: Senate and New Jersey, where he's derided as gold Bar.

488
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 3: Bob the Democrat maintains he's innocent of the charges of

489
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 3: accepting nearly five hundred thousand dollars in cash, thirteen goal bars,

490
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 3: and a Mercedes Benz in bribes in exchange for favors.

491
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 3: I am disappointed at the false accusations as well. All

492
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 3: I can ask of you is to withhold judgment until

493
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 3: justice takes place. Through four weeks of trial, the jury

494
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 3: has been hearing lengthy testimony about a complex bribery scheme

495
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 3: as prosecutors introduced evidence of emails, phone recordings, bank records,

496
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 3: goal bars, and hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash.

497
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 3: But the testimony picked up this week and jurors were

498
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 3: riveted when an undercover FBI agent took the stand and

499
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 3: showed them a secret video recording of Menendez dining and

500
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: laughing with the wine flowing at an upscale DC steakhouse

501
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 3: with his girlfriend now wife, Nadine, his co defendant Will

502
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 3: Hannah and to Egyptian men. In what can only be

503
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 3: described as a stroke of bad luck, the FBI surveillance

504
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 3: teams were there to watch someone else and just happened

505
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 3: to recognize Menendez. And here an incriminating statement joining me

506
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 3: is Bloomberg Legal reporter David Voriankiz, who was in the

507
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,439
Speaker 3: courtroom for the testimony. So, David, we don't even know

508
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: if Menandez was on the FBI's radar at the time

509
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 3: of this dinner.

510
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 4: In twenty nineteen, the FBI surveiled a group of people

511
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 4: at Morton's Steakhouse in Washington, and the target of that investigation,

512
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 4: we learned in testimony in court this week, was not

513
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 4: Bob Menendez, but someone else in the group. And the

514
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 4: group included Menendez's then girlfriend, Nadine Arslanian who you later married,

515
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 4: Menendez and three other Egyptian men. And there were two

516
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 4: surveillance teams at the restaurant, one inside and one outside,

517
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,640
Speaker 4: and they took a number of photographs as well as

518
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 4: a video, which jurors saw in federal court in New

519
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 4: York this week, and the.

520
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 3: FBI agent testified that she heard Nadine Menendez ask what

521
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:12,640
Speaker 3: else can the love of my life do for you?

522
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 3: Was that the only incriminating statement she heard.

523
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 4: Yes, the investigated specialist Terry Williams Thompson, who testified, said

524
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 4: that that was what she heard, and they did not

525
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 4: record the conversation when they video taped this dinner. So

526
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 4: that quote certainly suggests that Menendez had agreed to do

527
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 4: something for these Egyptian men. And all this was happening

528
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 4: at the same time that a co defendant, Will Hannah,

529
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 4: had recently secured an exclusive deal to inspect US meat

530
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 4: that was bound for Egypt and was certified as complying

531
00:27:55,440 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 4: with halal standards, and Senator Menendez we heard in testimony

532
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 4: he called the top US Department of Agriculture official who

533
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 4: had complained to the Egyptian government that this sudden change

534
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 4: in policy on plal meat inspections was hurting US businesses

535
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 4: because there were several other businesses that had previously had

536
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 4: this job, and all of a sudden, it was down

537
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 4: to one business and that was the one by will Hannah,

538
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 4: and he had no background at all in halal meat inspections.

539
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 4: So that USDA official Ted McKinney testified last week and

540
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 4: this week that he got a call out of the

541
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 4: blue from Menendez right around the same time as this dinner,

542
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 4: in which Menendez told him to stop interfering with my constituent.

543
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,479
Speaker 4: And he said that Menendez's tone was kurt, and that

544
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: when McKinney tried to explain what he was doing to

545
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 4: Menendez that the senator interrupted.

546
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 3: Him and David just to be is the bribery charge

547
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 3: related to this incident.

548
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 4: There are a couple of charges that it could relate to.

549
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 4: One is there's a bribery charge that has to do

550
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 4: with will Hannah seeking Menendez to protect his monopoly, and

551
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 4: Menendez is also accused of acting as an unregistered agent

552
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 4: of Egypt.

553
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 3: Menandez Is defense attorney portrayed this as just an innocent meeting.

554
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 3: That the senator goes there all the time. He probably

555
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 3: eats at that same restaurant at that same table two

556
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty nights a year, and wow, that's a

557
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 3: lot of steak.

558
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 4: The defense said that this was a routine matter for

559
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 4: a US senator and that he was acting on behalf

560
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 4: of a constituent, that he did not pressure McKinney, he

561
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 4: didn't ask him to do anything corrupt.

562
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 3: This dinner was four years before the indictment. Was the

563
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: FBI investigating Menendez for that long?

564
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 4: Well? I know from prior court filings that the FBI

565
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 4: had rated Will Hannah's business in Edgewater, New Jersey, and

566
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 4: there was an active investigation of Hannah and they were

567
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 4: looking into whether he was acting as an agent at Egypt.

568
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 4: And the FBI employee who testified said that she did

569
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 4: not know the subject of the investigation, but it was

570
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 4: not Menendez. So that suggests that the FBI was working

571
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 4: actively on another angle and maybe they stumbled on Menendez.

572
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 3: Was a testimony sort of light at certain points because

573
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 3: I read that the FBI agent was asked whether she

574
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: ate while she was there, and she said I sure

575
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 3: did and it was good too. And then the judge said,

576
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 3: I hope the FBI paid for your meal.

577
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 4: That was definitely a fun moment in the testimony. She

578
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 4: was talking about how she had to dress the part

579
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 4: and blend in and that she was happy to do

580
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 4: so at more Martins, which had a great menu.

581
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 3: I mean, this is the kind of testimony that jurors

582
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 3: wake up for after weeks and weeks of documents and

583
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 3: bank records and the like.

584
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 4: There was definitely a captivating witness, and there was a

585
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 4: lot about how she fled her craft as a surveillance person.

586
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 4: I mean, she apparently goes from job to job to

587
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 4: job blending in and it was fascinating to hear all

588
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 4: this sort of spycraft in action.

589
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 3: Part of Menendez's strategy is to blame his wife, Nadine.

590
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,200
Speaker 3: She's going to be tried separately on the charges, so

591
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 3: he won't be pointing at her while she's in the courtroom.

592
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 3: Does the testimony of the prosecution star witness implicate both

593
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 3: Bob and Nadine Menandez Jose.

594
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 4: Euribe is a New Jersey businessman who pleaded guilty and

595
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 4: is now cooperating with prosecutors. He testified that Bob Menendez,

596
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 4: Nadine Menendez, and Will Hannah we're all engaged in a

597
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 4: bribery plot to other and he can offer an inside

598
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 4: account of how this plot, at least as far as

599
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 4: he was concerned, advanced. And his role in this case

600
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 4: is that a associate of his was under state indictment.

601
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 4: And we've reported that Bob Menendez met with the then

602
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 4: Attorney General Gerbir Greywall and spoke to him about this case.

603
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: The prosecutors say essentially that Uribe bribe Menendez to try

604
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 4: to persuade the new Jersey Attorney General to influence the

605
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 4: outcome of that indictment, it was an insurance broadcase, and

606
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 4: that he also wanted Menendez's help in a second related

607
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 4: criminal investigation that did not lead to any charges.

608
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 3: What have you seen from Menandez's defense so far?

609
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 4: What his lawyers have been carefully trying to do is

610
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 4: parse out the nearly five hundred thousand dollars in cash

611
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 4: and the thirteen gold bars that prosecutors say that he

612
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 4: received as a result of bribes and offer innocent explanations

613
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 4: for why he received them, and also, through cross examination,

614
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 4: tried to show that a series of text messages and

615
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 4: emails in which Nadine Menendez then his girlfriend Nadine Arslenian,

616
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 4: arranged a series of meetings with Egyptian officials and will

617
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 4: Hannah that Senator Menendez said were not corrupt and that

618
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 4: he had nothing to do in any event with any

619
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 4: of the financial problems that his then girlfriend now wife

620
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 4: was experiencing at the time.

621
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 3: They're going to try to attempt to show that there

622
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 3: was no corrupt intent, which is an element of bribery,

623
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 3: that's correct.

624
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 4: And that he did not know that his wife was

625
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 4: having a lot of financial problems when they got married.

626
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 4: It was the second marriage for both of them. And

627
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 4: he's also trying to show that his wife was in

628
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 4: possession of a number of gold bars that he had

629
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 4: nothing to do with, that the gold bars were given

630
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 4: to his wife and not to him, And he didn't

631
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 4: understand that Nadine's friends were trying to help her out

632
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 4: of her financial problems. I mean, that's the defense story.

633
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 3: Has there been any indication that he would take the stand,

634
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 3: That's not clear.

635
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 4: That's generally a decision that defense lawyers make at the

636
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 4: end of a trial, after they've assessed how the evidence

637
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 4: has come in. I would say that Menendez a political

638
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 4: support in New Jersey and in the US Senate has

639
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 4: collapsed as a result of this case. Just this week

640
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 4: he filed to run in November for reelection as an

641
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 4: independent Democrat because he's lost the support of the party.

642
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,799
Speaker 4: So I have to as asume that any decision on

643
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,719
Speaker 4: testifying will also involve a political calculation on how the

644
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 4: trial is being received publicly. He of course wants to

645
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,919
Speaker 4: be exonerated as a result of this trial and reelected.

646
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 4: And there's the challenge he has of answering this very

647
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,479
Speaker 4: serious indictment and a large amount of evidence against him.

648
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 4: He's got to balance that against the story that he

649
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,920
Speaker 4: tells for the public, which has only heard about the indictment,

650
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,520
Speaker 4: and a lot of the evidence cast him in a

651
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 4: very unflattering light.

652
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 3: That is a really good point, because anyone who watches

653
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 3: the news saw the photos of his jacket stuffed with

654
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 3: cash and the gold bars and the Mercedes. So perhaps

655
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 3: he has a little more to take into consideration than

656
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 3: the average defendant in deciding whether to testify or not.

657
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 3: This is the second time that Menandez has been tried

658
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 3: on corruption charges. Tell us about the first trial.

659
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 4: Jenator Menendez's first trial in twenty seventeen was in Newark,

660
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 4: New Jersey, in federal court, and he was accused of

661
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 4: taking trips and other favors in exchange for helping a

662
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 4: Florida eye doctor, Folloman Melgan. And there were some similarities

663
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 4: in that Menendez was contacting government officials on Melgan's behalf,

664
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 4: but the scale of the gifts in this case is

665
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 4: just much larger, and the gold bars and the cash

666
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 4: are just much more tangible bribes, as alleged by the

667
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 4: prosecutors than they were in the first case, in which

668
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 4: the jury deadlocked and the judge ultimately declared a mistrial.

669
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,239
Speaker 4: In this case, for instance, the prosecutors passed around the

670
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 4: gold bars so the jurors could actually hold them. And

671
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 4: they've seen photograph of the cash that was seized by

672
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 4: FBI agents when they rated the house that Bob and

673
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 4: Nadine Menendez share in suburban New Jersey.

674
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 3: A gold bar is about as tangible as you can get.

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00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,919
Speaker 3: Thanks so much, David. That's Bloomberg Legal reporter David Voriakis,

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00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 3: and that's it for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Podcast.

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00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 3: Remember you can always get the latest legal news by

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00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 3: subscribing and listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

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00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 3: and at Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast, slash Law. I'm

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00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 3: June Grosso and this is Bloomberg