1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: Hey, Adam, do you remember when we were talking with 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: doctor Wendy Troxel in our first episode I Do and 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: how she mentioned that guys who only get four to 4 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: five hours of sleep per night have testosterone levels of 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: someone ten years older. 6 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 2: How can I forget that? It was terrifying. 7 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 3: Well, guess what. The news isn't any better for women. 8 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Researchers at Duke University found that women who reported unhealthy 9 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: sleep are at an elevated risk for type two diabetes, 10 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: heart disease, and even depression. 11 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 2: Oh wow, that is also terrifying. 12 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, Adam, it's like, if we want to enjoy our 13 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: later years, we need to get good sleep. 14 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 3: Now, it's just science. Hi, I'm Katie. 15 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 2: Low's and I'm Adam Shaviro. 16 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: And this is Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios 17 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: from iHeartMedia in partnership with Mattress Firm. This episode is 18 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: about sleep and age when it comes to longevity and 19 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: quality of life. Study after study shows that the better 20 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: you sleep, the better your overall quality of life. We're 21 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: also going to look at how our sleep changes as 22 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: we get older. 23 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 4: Doctor Jennifer L. 24 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 5: Martin has done extensive research on sleep and aging. Just 25 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 5: this year she studied how best to treat insomnia among 26 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 5: older veterans. 27 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: She co authored the. 28 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 5: Definitive statement on the recommended amount of sleep healthy adults 29 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 5: should get? 30 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: How much should we get? What is hold on? 31 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 3: Hold on Adam? We can just ask her. Yeah, hello, 32 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 3: doctor Martin, Hi. 33 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 6: Thanks so much for having me here. 34 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: Thanks for being here. 35 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 5: Also joining the conversation is Sarah Brown. She spent most 36 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 5: of her healthcare career working with seniors, first as a 37 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 5: nurse and then as the executive director of Emperi Systems 38 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 5: home care in Minnesota. While Sarah was there, she introduced 39 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 5: a revolutionary program to help nursing home residents get more 40 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 5: and better sleep. 41 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 2: Sarah, welcome to Chasing Sleep. 42 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 7: Thank you so much for having me. And I just 43 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 7: want to give credit where credits doe. I was part 44 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 7: of a team that did the sleep program. Can't take 45 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 7: all the credit for myself. 46 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 2: Awesome. 47 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear about that. That sounds absolutely amazing. 48 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: Okay, doctor Martin, you wrote the book on this. How 49 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 2: much sleep should we get? 50 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 6: The magic number is at least seven every day, every day, Katie, 51 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 6: not just once in a while. 52 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: I'm curious, does the amount of sleep that you need 53 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: actually evolve with age. So like, let me toss out 54 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: an age and you tell me. 55 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, let's just throw out a couple numbers. 56 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: Thrown out numbers, Yeah, Like, how much should a sixteen 57 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: year old get? 58 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 6: A sixteen year old probably needs somewhere between eight and 59 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 6: ten hours of sleep. Anyone out there with the high 60 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 6: school kid knows how hard that is. But through development, 61 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 6: kids need less sleep over time until really early adulthood, 62 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 6: and then it's pretty consistent from there on out. So 63 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 6: from now on, when you throw out a number, I'm 64 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 6: probably just going to say seven. 65 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: So thirty five seven, seven, fifty five seven, okay, three, 66 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: forty three seven okay, cool? 67 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 3: What about eighty fives? 68 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 6: So it's really interesting. There was a bit of a 69 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 6: myth floating around when I first started my training a 70 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 6: long time ago that as people get older they need 71 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 6: less sleep, and that was based on studies where they 72 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 6: didn't account for the fact that older people take more naps. 73 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 2: Oh interesting, So the other. 74 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 6: Thing that happens with aging is the quality of our 75 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 6: sleep changes, so it's harder to get that full night 76 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 6: of sleep. I think our best estimate now is that 77 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 6: if you, let's say you feel really good on seven 78 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 6: and a half hours of sleep when you're thirty five. 79 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 6: By the time you're eighty, maybe seven hours and ten minutes, 80 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 6: So maybe your biological need drops by say twenty minutes 81 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 6: or so, but it's not really a big difference, Like, Oh, 82 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 6: I used to need seven and a half and now 83 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 6: I'm great with five. Right, that's not really what happens 84 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 6: with aging. 85 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: And what about is it a quality question or quantity? 86 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: Which one is more important? 87 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 6: That's an impossible question to answer. 88 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: Stumped. 89 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 4: You know, I'm getting gay ladies and gentlemen. 90 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 6: If people like me and Sarah knew the answer, we'd 91 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 6: have Nobel prizes, right, like, because not all sleep is 92 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 6: the same. There are different types and stages of sleep, 93 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 6: and the only way to get them all and the 94 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 6: right amount is to sleep well. 95 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 8: Right, And I'd like to just add to that. 96 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 7: What with the sleep program that we found is that 97 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 7: it wasn't time in bed or time of sleep like 98 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 7: it's it was consolidated sleep. So someone listening might think 99 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 7: you're saying consistently like every night seven hours, but really 100 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,119 Speaker 7: it's you want seven hours uninterrupted to allow your body 101 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 7: to go through all the sleep stages and cycles. Without 102 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 7: that fragmentation. And I think with older adults, with all 103 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 7: the napping, they end up the time that there is 104 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 7: sleep in a twenty four period might be higher, but 105 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 7: the quality is really low because they never got into 106 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:48,559 Speaker 7: that deep, restorative sleep. 107 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 8: Do I have that right, doctor Martin? 108 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 6: That's perfect, Sarah. 109 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 5: Can you tell us a little bit about the research 110 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 5: and the work you've done at Impira. 111 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 6: Yeah. 112 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 7: The resortive sleep program actually stemmed from a falls program 113 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 7: in which we were trying to identify the root cause 114 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 7: of falls and one of the things that kept coming 115 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 7: up is that these residents were reporting they were tired, 116 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 7: or staff were reporting they were weak or tired. 117 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 8: So we're like, well, maybe they need more sleep. 118 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 7: So Pierre I was able to get a grant from 119 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 7: the Department of Health to look at residents over twenty 120 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 7: five different nursing homes. What we did is we went 121 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 7: and got tigraphy watches, which is a gold standard for 122 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 7: measuring sleep, and we measured the amount that residents were sleeping. 123 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 7: And the more we learned about sleep is where we 124 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 7: really learned it. They weren't sleep deprived, they had sleep fragmentation, 125 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 7: and that the sleep fragmentation was actually more harmful than 126 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 7: the sleep deprivation. 127 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 8: We thought they had. 128 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 7: You know, one of the big things we found is 129 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 7: sleep is all about your twenty four hour cycle. It's 130 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 7: not just when you sleep at night, but what you 131 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 7: do during the day to help get that resortive sleep 132 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 7: at night. And from that we were able to create 133 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 7: what we called a sleep program or a sleep initiative 134 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 7: that really involved every department. 135 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 8: Everything we did had an. 136 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 7: Impact on someone's sleep, because again, it was at twenty 137 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 7: four hour day, so it was like looking at things 138 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 7: of signing contracts with vendors, all the labs want to 139 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,520 Speaker 7: come in and draw labs first thing in the morning 140 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 7: for residents before they go to the hospital. We looked 141 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 7: at shift change, we looked at meal times, we looked 142 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 7: at activities throughout the day, we looked at napping, and 143 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 7: we looked at the mattresses on the bed. So how 144 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 7: can we let them sleep longer uninterrupted. So that's kind 145 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 7: of like a snapshot of it. Really, sleep was the 146 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 7: fountain of youth or the foundation of healing and restorative 147 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 7: Sleep was a basic human need. 148 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: That's the line of this episode. Yeah, the felt might 149 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: drop right there, Sarah. Once you pulled all of this 150 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: research together. What was the big takeaway for you? What 151 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: needed to change for seniors in your care. 152 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 7: I think the big summary of it is that people 153 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 7: need a night and a day care plan. 154 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 8: Right in long term care nursing home. 155 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 7: It's so easy to just create the care plan based 156 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 7: on what you do as a nurse on the day shift, 157 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 7: who made the care plan, and then the night shift 158 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 7: comes and it's their daytime, really or they're awake time, 159 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 7: so they're still turning and repositioning every hour, every two hours, 160 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 7: toying rounding every hour, waking residents and following that exact 161 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 7: same care plan. And that's just not good for our bodies, 162 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 7: you know. 163 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 6: I think it's so interesting, Sarah, because I also got 164 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 6: interested in sleep, actually studying sleep in nursing homes like 165 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 6: in the early nineteen nineties. 166 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 4: Oh, that's very cool. 167 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 6: And the interesting thing is the napping is not napping. 168 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 6: It's not like, oh, we have lunch and then everyone 169 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 6: goes in their room and puts their head on their 170 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 6: pillow and they have this sweet little afternoon siesta. Sure 171 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 6: what happens in nursing home, and Sarah, you pointed this 172 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 6: out so eloquently, is that like sleep is just distributed 173 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 6: all over the twenty four hour day. 174 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: So when you say connected seven hours of sleep, do 175 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: you mean for all of our listeners out there, do 176 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: you mean I fall asleep at ten and I don't 177 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: see anything, remember anything. I don't get interrupted to p 178 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: or be with my kids or anything like that until 179 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: you know, five thirty six am. 180 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 6: Not quite that perfect, Okay. 181 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: But okay, so it might it might be a wake 182 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: up and a head and go back down, but it's 183 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: short wake up. It's not like and we're up in 184 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: our brain spinning for an hour. 185 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 6: Correct. 186 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 5: Katie's a big napper. God, I love a napp But 187 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 5: are those naps fragmenting her sleep too much? 188 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 6: You know? 189 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 5: Is she getting too long of a nap in the 190 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 5: afternoon so that when she does go to sleep at night. 191 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 5: It's why she's not getting the same kind of connective, 192 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 5: restorative sleep. 193 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 6: If napping is part of the plan and you do 194 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 6: it at the right time of day, which biologically for 195 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 6: us is in that afternoon time, it's great. But most 196 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 6: people don't have a life in the US at least 197 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 6: where they can protect that time. Most people have kind 198 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 6: of a nine to five ish gig going on, and 199 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 6: so being able to protect the time is a big problem. 200 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: Right, So I'm a weekend napper because I'm so used 201 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: to being on a more kids schedule. 202 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 7: I just want to go back to and ask doctor 203 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 7: Martin to clarify because when I was heavy in the research, 204 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 7: really we saw that napping, like that siesta kind of 205 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 7: nap what could be healthy. But that was like we 206 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 7: would recommend less than thirty minutes because if you sleep 207 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 7: longer than that, what happens is you start to get 208 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 7: into your deeper stage sleep and then you kind of 209 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 7: rob from your nighttime sleep bag. Is that still an 210 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 7: accurate statement? 211 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 6: I mean, I think now we talk about there's two 212 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 6: ways to nap. There's that short kind of power nap 213 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 6: where you don't get into deep stages of sleep. And 214 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 6: then there are people who do well with like a 215 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 6: long nap like hour and a half, but then they 216 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 6: spend less time in bed at night. So again, if 217 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 6: you add it all together, and you know, it's a 218 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 6: consolidated a bout of sleep in the afternoon, not like 219 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 6: dozing off in your car, you know, or in front 220 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 6: of your television. It's like a planned sleep cycle. But 221 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 6: in general, most people feel that little burst of energy, 222 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 6: just as Sarah said, with a short nap like thirty minutes. 223 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 6: So you asked a great question to start with, which 224 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 6: is how much sleep do you need? And I said 225 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 6: seven hours, And that number actually is based on health outcomes, 226 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 6: things like development of type two diabetes, heart disease. There's 227 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 6: actually some evidence that because sleep has anti inflammatory properties, 228 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 6: that if you're chronically sleep deprived, that inflammation might even 229 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 6: make its way to your brain and increase your risk 230 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 6: of Alzheimer's disease later in life. Oh wow, Sure, he's 231 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 6: kind of still out on that one. I don't want 232 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 6: to overstate it, but there is a plausible physiological mechanism 233 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 6: for that. And when we look at research with animals 234 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 6: that have risk for Alzheimer's disease, that's what we're seeing. 235 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 7: I think it's your overall entire health, not just like 236 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 7: Alzheimer's and heart disease, but pretty much any chronic condition. 237 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 7: There's research to back that sleep has a contributing factor. 238 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 7: And if you think about sleep at its core, what 239 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 7: is it doing is sleep is really our body's medicine 240 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 7: and our body's opportunity to let the body do what 241 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 7: it's supposed to do, to heal, to regenerate, to balance hormones, 242 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 7: to process memories, to process stress. 243 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 6: So you know, I think it's not irreversible, but fix 244 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 6: it now. 245 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: So, Sarah, both you and doctor Martin have worked a 246 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: lot with seniors. Let's talk about chronotypes. I have heard 247 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: of those early bird larks and night owls, you know, 248 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: I mean early bird special That's a thing we've all 249 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: heard about. Do we all turn into early birds as 250 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: we age? How does that work? 251 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 6: I could nerd out on this for like the rest 252 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 6: of the time. 253 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 4: Let's do it. That's what the podcast is for. 254 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 6: I love this, I absolutely love this. So there's this 255 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 6: funny thing about humans. First of all, our circadian timing 256 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 6: system is genetic, and like I feel like I'm calling 257 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 6: myself old. But I remember when like the first genes 258 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 6: related to circadian timing were discovered, and it would like 259 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 6: blew our minds because we didn't really know how all 260 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 6: of this worked. But we did know that these German 261 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 6: scientists who went and lived in caves away from time 262 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 6: cues didn't have a twenty four hour sleep cycle. It 263 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 6: was about twenty four hours and twenty minutes. So we 264 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 6: need the sun to like reset us every day. 265 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 8: We're all diurnal. 266 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 7: It means diurnal that we should be up during the 267 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 7: day and sleep at night. And so nobody can really 268 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 7: flip and become a nocturnal. 269 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 8: Like an owl. 270 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 7: So whether you are more of an early riser or 271 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 7: a night owl or somewhere in between, there all still 272 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 7: our body does best when we sleep when the sun 273 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 7: goes down. 274 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 6: So Sarah mentioned like night owls, that is a genetic thing. 275 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 6: And some people are on the far extremes, so you 276 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 6: can tell them go to bed early and get up early, 277 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 6: and it is impossible for them to do that. 278 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 3: That's my husband. 279 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 4: That's my husband, that is me right. 280 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 6: There right now. Most people are in the middle. That's 281 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 6: where the vast majority of people, probably well over like 282 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 6: ninety ninety five percent of people have some ability to adjust. 283 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 6: There is this age related change where during adolescence we 284 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 6: become more night owl ish and as we age we 285 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 6: become more lark ish. So if we take out those 286 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 6: people on the far extremes, there is this pretty consistent 287 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 6: age related adjustment, which is why senior dinner specials are 288 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 6: at five and why again high school shouldn't start at 289 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 6: seven o'clock. 290 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 2: In the morning. 291 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 6: So your chronotype is your internal tendency. And I always 292 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 6: say the best thing in the world is to respect 293 00:12:59,400 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 6: your clock. 294 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 7: One thing that we had learned and we usually advise 295 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 7: people is like, when you're twenty five years old and 296 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 7: you're in your healthy time, when you can go to 297 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 7: bed at will and wake at will and wake up 298 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 7: and feel refreshed, how many hours is it? 299 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 8: And kind of pay attention to that. 300 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 6: So I think we just have a lot of segments 301 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 6: of society where we try to get people to do 302 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 6: something that messes up their sleep, and then we just 303 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 6: like kind of shrug our shoulders and say, gee, why 304 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 6: can't they get it back on track. We just publish 305 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 6: a paper recently looking at people in the military where 306 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 6: they're followed over time. There's a large study called the 307 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 6: Millennium Cohort, And what we saw actually is that sleep 308 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 6: problems pre date things like post traumatic stress disorder and depression. 309 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 6: So it's a predictor if you're not sleeping well that 310 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 6: after you're exposed to some kind of a traumatic event, 311 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 6: that you'll go on to develop mental health symptoms later. 312 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 4: Wow. 313 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 7: I just want to share one kind of little thing 314 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 7: that we had learned so in long term care, you 315 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 7: look at the manifestations of sleep deprivation, sleep fragmentation, and 316 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 7: they line up perfectly with psychosis and the reasons that 317 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 7: we're putting people on antipsychotics. So we had this huge 318 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 7: aha that like these people came into the nursing home, 319 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 7: they were not psychotic their whole life. They didn't have 320 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 7: these mental health disorders, and all of a sudden, they're 321 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 7: all having them. We have to look at the systems 322 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 7: around them and what we're doing to actually cause psychosis, 323 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 7: and it was the sleep fragmentation. 324 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, this is a complete reversal about again what I 325 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 6: learned in my training, which is sleep problems are a symptom. 326 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 6: And I think, Sarah, what you're getting at is we 327 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 6: have to change our mindset and start thinking about the 328 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 6: role that sleep plays now at any point in life. 329 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 6: If you chronically sleep deprive yourself, it changes your body. 330 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 5: This is a fascinating discussion and we are not done 331 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 5: more to come. 332 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: Welcome back to chasing sleep. We're all getting older and 333 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: we all want to stay healthy as we do. So 334 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about sleep and aging with doctor j Jennifer 335 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: Martin and consultant for senior healthcare providers. 336 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 5: Sarah Brown, what about sex, Katie. No, I'm just sorry. 337 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 5: Was that totally out of the blue. I just was 338 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 5: thinking about this. 339 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 6: No, not at all. We've been Yeah, we've been headed 340 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 6: in that direction for a while. 341 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: And is the rumor true working in senior facilities, the 342 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: rumor is that everyone's having sex in those places. 343 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 6: I'm not answering that question. I don't know if Sarah 344 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 6: will either. 345 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 7: I've heard I'll answer it by saying, you're still a 346 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 7: human when you're older. 347 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 8: It doesn't matter what age you are. 348 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 2: Good. 349 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 3: I'm giving so many collaps for that. 350 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 5: But if you're not sleeping, well, can it contribute to 351 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 5: having a poor sex life? 352 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 6: So, yeah, you know, this is an area where so 353 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 6: there is a sleep disorder called sleep apnia, which is 354 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 6: a condition where people have a hard time breathing when 355 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 6: they sleep. These people snore, they stop breathing. It's very common, 356 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 6: especially in men, and it contributes to high blood pressure 357 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 6: and it contributes to a rectile dysfunction, both directly and 358 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 6: because then people end up on anti hypertensive medications and 359 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 6: that can affect create problems with the rectile dysfunction. So 360 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 6: that specific sleep disorder is directly linked to problems with 361 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 6: sexual health. 362 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: I just can't believe every single woman I know who's 363 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: in a heterosexual relationship with a man at a certain 364 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: age is complaining to me about how bad they're snoring 365 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: is keeping them up, and the older they get, the 366 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: snoring is the worst, and the sleep apnea. 367 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 6: I mean, I think it's also when we are sleep deprived, 368 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 6: we over interpret negative experiences emotionally and we under interpret 369 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 6: positive experiences emotionally. So I think in your relationship, kind 370 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 6: of think about that, like, what's the probability that you'll 371 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 6: be interested in sex with your partner if you're sleep deprived, 372 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 6: because again, all those positive emotions tend to be kind 373 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 6: of blunted. 374 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: So one of the things you mentioned earlier, how do 375 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: you see what you learned in these studies with older 376 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: veterans to the average person and how we age. 377 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 6: Let's think about the military culture as a subset of society. 378 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 6: So what I hear a lot from the folks that 379 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 6: I work with and in my research is that they 380 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 6: are trained to stay awake all the time except when 381 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 6: they can sleep, and then they're supposed to fall asleep 382 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 6: at the drop of a hat. That's not how life 383 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 6: really is. So a lot of folks have to relearn 384 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 6: how to sleep well. So one of the myths that 385 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 6: we're also trying to get past is that just because 386 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 6: someone is older, that doesn't mean if they have insomnia 387 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 6: disorder sleep apnea, that we should just leave it alone. Like, 388 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 6: oh they'll be okay. 389 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a wash. 390 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 3: We actually look, that's your thing, that's your narrative. 391 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 6: You know, yeah, no, it's I mean, older pe respond 392 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 6: just as well to treatment of sleep disorders as younger people, 393 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 6: so age shouldn't be a factor. 394 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 5: Oh that's good to know. I've always wanted to ask 395 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 5: this question. Every time I have a really early flight 396 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 5: and I don't get a lot of sleep. I'm talking 397 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 5: like two hours, three hours, and then I'm up and 398 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 5: I'm heading towards the airport. I get a really bad 399 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 5: cold for like twenty four hours after that, Katie, that 400 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 5: doesn't really happen to you, But like I every time 401 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 5: get a really bad cold if I don't get a 402 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 5: lot of sleep before flight, why what is that? 403 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 6: Sarah? Do you want to with your nursing background, if 404 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 6: like you're the one to talk about the immune system. 405 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 7: Well, so, really, our immunities are built during sleep, so tearing, 406 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 7: you know, breaking down your immune system by withholding sleep 407 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 7: and not giving that restoration to your immune system definitely 408 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 7: makes you more susceptible. And then traveling you're more exposed 409 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 7: to people's germs. 410 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 6: All kinds of yucky stuff. 411 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 2: Wow. 412 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 6: Yeah, I have to tell you my own personal rule. 413 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 6: For work, I do not fly overnight and I do 414 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 6: not take a six am flight out of lax Yep. 415 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 6: Now for fun, I do whatever a lot, But I 416 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 6: just kind of made this decision that I like, I 417 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 6: have to respect what I'm telling everybody else and I'm 418 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 6: not going to stay up all night to catch a 419 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 6: flight to go talk about sleep. 420 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 5: That sounds like a good policy. Doctor Martin, what would 421 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 5: you say to those of us who are pulling all nighters. 422 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 5: I mean, we've all done that at some point. What 423 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 5: is the impact on our overall health? Can we get 424 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 5: away with pulling it on it? 425 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 6: Yes? So we're fine, Like we can cope with a 426 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 6: little bit of variation. Always say you can have cake 427 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 6: on your birthday, you can't have it every day, three 428 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 6: times a day. The problem is what a lot of 429 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 6: students do is they get six hours of sleep every night, 430 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 6: so they're super sleep deprived and then they pull an 431 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 6: all nighter on top of it. And that's where we see, 432 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 6: you know again, dangerous levels of sleepiness, mood alterations. You know, 433 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 6: we have a long conversation in this country about suicide, right, 434 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 6: it turns out that poor sleep is a pretty potent 435 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 6: predictor of thinking about and attempting suicide across ag. 436 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: I have been jaw dropped multiple times. And Sarah, this 437 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: is like one of my favorite questions about sleep and aging, 438 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: and Sarah, you touched on this. I have a grandfather 439 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: that passed away of Alzheimer's and a grandmother that passed 440 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: away with dementia, and I'm curious, as we get older 441 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: and we have a lot more life experiences that we 442 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: store in our brains, how does sleep affect our memories 443 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: and our memory. 444 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 7: When it relates to memories, My answer would be, it 445 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 7: doesn't matter how old you are. If you're not sleeping, 446 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 7: you're going to have a harder time accessing executive function 447 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 7: in your brain, no matter what age you are, because 448 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 7: your body is under stress. And when we're under stressed, 449 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 7: we can't access that higher level of executive functioning. So 450 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 7: some of the memory recall might get harder, our sharps, 451 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 7: mental sharpness might be harder. We might be more confused 452 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 7: or forgetful for all ages. 453 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: Right, But knowing all of this, how should younger sleepers 454 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: approach their sleep now to improve their quality of life 455 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: and ensure high quality life well into the later years 456 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: of your life. 457 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 7: So one of the big things I think with younger 458 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 7: people is going to bed with your smartphone and that 459 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 7: being exposed to that blue light that's going to disrupt 460 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 7: our melatonin production and also just it's stimulating our brain, 461 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 7: so it's harder for us to fall asleep. 462 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 8: So staying off with tablets. 463 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: And how long should we stay off them before bedtime? 464 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 7: At least a half an hour, but like two hours 465 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 7: before bed would be great. 466 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, Adam, you screwed. 467 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 5: I mean that's when I look at the gram. Is 468 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 5: it weird that I kissed my iPhone good night? 469 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 8: Is that? 470 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 2: Is that? 471 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 4: Am I too close with my iPhone at that point? Yes? 472 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 7: That's very unhealthy. But if you're going to bed, you know, 473 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 7: be in a dark room or amber red light that 474 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 7: wavelength is better for your melatonin production as well, and 475 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 7: then move your body during the day like I can't 476 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 7: emphasize enough how much our sleep is tied to our 477 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,400 Speaker 7: full twenty four hours. If you can learn to meditate 478 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 7: the younger you are, or you know, just quiet reflection 479 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 7: time is helpful and to calm that silence. Because I 480 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 7: look back in my younger twenties, before I like had 481 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 7: a family, and if I could have started to practice 482 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 7: like that, calm down, just things to calm down my mind, 483 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 7: calm down my body for me, like I take warm 484 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 7: bath or warm shower before bed. 485 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 8: That temperature regulation can be helpful. 486 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 3: Oh that's what I do. 487 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: That's nice, really really insightful and helpful. Final cueue, How 488 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: do we encourage parents or even grandparents of the importance 489 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: of good sleep? 490 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 6: So I think the most promising development in terms of 491 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 6: sleep and aging is that we now know that one 492 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 6: of the ways to age successfully is to take care 493 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 6: of your sleep. I mean, I did a lot of 494 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 6: things with my sleep that I wouldn't do now. And 495 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 6: I have to say that I feel really good that 496 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 6: my kids, one of whom is a college student and 497 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 6: one is a high school student, like they they do 498 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 6: pay attention to their sleep and think about their schedules 499 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 6: and their activities in ways that we just didn't know, 500 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 6: and I would I would just add that, you know, 501 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 6: if we think about what we spend on a car 502 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 6: versus what we spend on a mattress, where we spend 503 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 6: a third of our lives, I think maybe we should 504 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 6: think about some priorities. And at the same time, I 505 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 6: also have to recognize that not everyone can afford to 506 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 6: go out and buy a very expensive mattress. But the 507 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 6: surface on which we spend a third of our lives 508 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 6: is not something to take like lightly. There's no like 509 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 6: magic bullet. Everyone has their own preferences. I'm the kind 510 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 6: of person when you go to a hotel and you're like, oh, 511 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 6: I really like that, Like what kind of mattresses is? 512 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 6: Why did I like it? What was so great about it? 513 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 6: And the other kind of less expensive option is really 514 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,719 Speaker 6: nice betting. So if you can't afford to replace your 515 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 6: mattress right now, you know, what about some really nice 516 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 6: pillowcases or something that just makes your bed an inviting 517 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 6: place to be. But like I said, I think for 518 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 6: most people, really spending some time thinking about the investment 519 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 6: that you put into your sleep environment and again remembering 520 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 6: that you're going to spend seven eight hours of each 521 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 6: twenty four hour day right there. And if you have 522 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 6: a sleep disorder like sleep apnea or you struggle with 523 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 6: chronic insomnia, that getting treatment still benefits people regardless of 524 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 6: their age. 525 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: Sarah, do you have any REX on how to help 526 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: people If you have. 527 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 7: A loved one who is in a nursing home or 528 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 7: that you're providing care for, I would really just advocate 529 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 7: that you would advocate for your loved one or yourself 530 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 7: to say, my care plan should read that I want 531 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 7: uninterrupted sleep. Like in nursing homes, the mattress can make 532 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 7: all the difference in the world. A high density foam 533 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 7: mattress where you don't need to be turning and repositioning 534 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 7: the body has protective mechanisms while we're sleeping. So nursing 535 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 7: homes struggle though, because there's so much litigation that you've 536 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 7: got to kind of say I want this, and I 537 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 7: want you to go outside your norm and I will 538 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 7: sign in a formed consent, but sleep is very important 539 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 7: to us, and we want you to update the care 540 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 7: plan to reflect that. Without doing that, it's unlikely that 541 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 7: the nursing homes are going to vary from their standard practice. 542 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 7: We've been getting the message out for years, but culture 543 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 7: change and practice change takes years. So if you have 544 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 7: a loved one even in the hospital too, and a 545 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 7: short hospitals say ask like we want it in their 546 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 7: care plan, leave them uninterrupted. 547 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 4: That's great to know that that's something that we can 548 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 4: advocate for. 549 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 2: Well. 550 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 7: Growing up, I used to tell my friends sleep when 551 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 7: you die, and I was kind of the life of 552 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,959 Speaker 7: the party. And right now seeing that short term and 553 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 7: cumulative effective poor sleep, it really is your best medicine. 554 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: Thank you both so much, doctor Martin and Sarah Brown. 555 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for all the work you were 556 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: doing around sleep your studies. And I'm so I like 557 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: I said, I if we were seeing this, I spent 558 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: most of this episode with my mouth completely agape. 559 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 3: I have learned so much. 560 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: From both of you, and I'm so appreciative of your time. 561 00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 562 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 2: Thank you for coming on Chasing Sleep. 563 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 6: Thanks thanks for having us. 564 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: It's been a lot of fun, Adam, I learned so 565 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: much from that conversation. I mean, can you believe what 566 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: they said about Alzheimer's and dementia. 567 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 5: Yeah, it really brings into focus just how important good 568 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 5: sleep really is. 569 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 4: Yes, we we talked about sleep deprivation. 570 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 5: I love that that sleep deprivation is actually can be 571 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 5: used as a as a predictor for other mental conditions 572 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 5: as opposed to, oh, these mental conditions are hurting the 573 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 5: person's sleep. 574 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 2: We can use sleep. 575 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 5: Not only as sleep our medicine, but sleep is like 576 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 5: this great predictor. 577 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 2: Of what might be coming down the road. 578 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: How about our personal you and me, Adam, were you 579 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 1: so pumped to finally ask why you get sick? 580 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 4: That's been something that's been bothering me forever. 581 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 5: Why why when I wake up, you know, after three 582 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 5: hours of sleep to get on. 583 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: A flight, Because we learned today lack of quality of 584 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,879 Speaker 1: sleep harms our immune system, leaving us more. 585 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 3: Susceptible to disease. How about this. 586 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: Banger getting off the phone and other screens at least 587 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: thirty minutes, but I'm pretty sure she said two hours, Adam. 588 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 5: That well, that's a huge thing for the young people too, 589 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 5: because healthy sleep habits now that are going to you know, 590 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 5: have them be successful healthy sleepers. Later, it's time to 591 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 5: start getting off those screens before bedtime. 592 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 2: Oh boy. 593 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: We also we need to add that sleep dot com 594 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: is also a great resource for information on nearly every 595 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: aspect of sleep. Great resource, and the last huge mic drop, 596 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: we need to go shopping. Think about what people are 597 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: willing to spend other mattresses. Considering that you spend a 598 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: third of your life laying on your mattress, I feel 599 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: like we need to put more emphasis on that when 600 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: we are looking for a mattress. 601 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 2: Let's go shopping baby. 602 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: On our next episode, we are talking about sleep and creativity. 603 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 2: I am excited about this. 604 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 5: I've always used this as an excuse as to why 605 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 5: I have to sleep late like my whole life, right. 606 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 3: You totally yeah. 607 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 5: I hope that this backs my theory that I need 608 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 5: my sleep in the morning and in the meantime. We'd 609 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 5: love to hear what you think about the podcast right now, 610 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 5: go to your podcast player and rate and review Chasing 611 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 5: Sleep please, or. 612 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: You can also find us at our socials on the Insta. 613 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 3: I'm Katie q. 614 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 2: Lows and I am Shabby Shafts. 615 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: And don't forget to follow or subscribe so you never 616 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: miss an episode until next time. 617 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 4: I hope you're living your best while sleeping your best. 618 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: Chasing Sleep is a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia 619 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: in partnership with Mattress Firm. Our executive producer is Molly Sosha. 620 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 5: This show was written and produced by Sound That Brands, 621 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 5: Dave Beesing, Jason Jackson, and Michelle Rice. 622 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: This episode was hosted by Katie Lows and Adam Shapiro. 623 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: Thank you to our partners at Mattress Firm.