1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: Hey, Adam, do you remember when we were talking with 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: doctor Wendy Troxel in our first episode I Do and 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: how she. 4 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 2: Mentioned that guys. 5 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: Who only get four to five hours of sleep per 6 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: night have testosterone levels of someone ten years older. 7 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 3: How can I forget that? It was terrifying. 8 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 2: Well, guess what. The news isn't any better for women. 9 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Researchers at Duke University found that women who reported unhealthy 10 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: sleep are at an elevated risk for type two diabetes, 11 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: heart disease, and even depression. 12 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 3: Oh wow, that is also terrifying. 13 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, Adam, it's like, if we want to enjoy our 14 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 1: later years, we need to get good sleep. Now, it's 15 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: just science. Hi, I'm Katie. 16 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 3: Low's and I'm Adam Shaviro. 17 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 1: And this is Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios 18 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:48,199 Speaker 1: from iHeartMedia in partnership with Mattress Firm. This episode is 19 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: about sleep and age when it comes to longevity and 20 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 1: quality of life. Study after study shows that the better 21 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: you sleep, the better your overall quality of life. We're 22 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: also going to look at how our sleep changes as 23 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: we get older. 24 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 3: Doctor Jennifer L. 25 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 4: Martin has done extensive research on sleep and aging. Just 26 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 4: this year she studied how best to treat insomnia among 27 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 4: older veterans. 28 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 3: She co authored the. 29 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 4: Definitive statement on the recommended amount of sleep healthy adults 30 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 4: should get? 31 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 3: How much should we get? What is? 32 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: Hold on? 33 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: Hold on, Adam? We can just ask her. Yeah, hello, 34 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: doctor Martin, Hi. 35 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 5: Thanks so much for having me here. 36 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 3: Thanks for being here. 37 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 4: Also joining the conversation is Sarah Brown. She spent most 38 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 4: of her health care career working with seniors, first as 39 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 4: a nurse and then as the executive director of Emperi 40 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 4: Systems home care in Minnesota. While Sarah was there, she 41 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 4: introduced a revolutionary program to help nursing home residents get 42 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 4: more and better sleep. 43 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 3: Sarah, welcome to Chasing Sleep. 44 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 6: Thank you so much for having me. And I just 45 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 6: want to give credit where credits do. I was part 46 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 6: of a team that did the sleep program. Can't take 47 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 6: all the credit for myself. 48 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 3: Awesome. 49 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear about that. That sounds absolutely amazing. 50 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 3: Okay, doctor Martin, you wrote the book on this. How 51 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 3: much sleep should we get? 52 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 5: The magic number is at least seven every day, every day, Katie, 53 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 5: not just once in a while. 54 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: I'm curious, does the amount of sleep that you need 55 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: actually evolve with age. So like, let me toss out 56 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: an age and you tell me. 57 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, let's just throw out a couple numbers. 58 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: Thrown out numbers, Yeah, Like, how much should a sixteen 59 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: year old get? 60 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 5: A sixteen year old probably needs somewhere between eight and 61 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 5: ten hours of sleep. Anyone out there with the high 62 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 5: school kid knows how hard that is. But through development, 63 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 5: kids need less sleep over time until really early adulthood, 64 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 5: and then it's pretty consistent from there on out. So 65 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 5: from now on, when you throw out a number, I'm 66 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 5: probably just going to say seven. 67 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: So thirty five seven, seven, fifty five seven, okay, three, 68 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: forty three seven, okay, cool? 69 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 2: What about eighty fives? 70 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 5: So it's really interesting. There was a bit of a 71 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 5: myth floating around when I first started my training a 72 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 5: long time ago that as people get older they need 73 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 5: less sleep, and that was based on studies where they 74 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 5: didn't account for the fact that older people take more naps. 75 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 3: Oh interesting, So the other. 76 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 5: Thing that happens with aging is the quality of our 77 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 5: sleep changes, so it's harder to get that full night 78 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 5: of sleep. I think our best estimate now is that 79 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 5: if you, let's say, you feel really good on seven 80 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 5: and a half hours of sleep when you're thirty five. 81 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 5: By the time you're eighty, maybe seven hours and ten minutes, 82 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 5: So maybe your biological need drops by say twenty minutes 83 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 5: or so, but it's not really a big difference, Like, Oh, 84 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 5: I used to need seven and a half and now 85 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 5: I'm great with five. Right, that's not really what happens 86 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 5: with aging. 87 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: And what about is it a quality question or quantity? 88 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: Which one is more important? 89 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 5: That's an impossible question to answer. 90 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: Stumped, you know, I'm kidding gay ladies and gentlemen. 91 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 5: If people like me and Sarah knew the answer, we'd 92 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 5: have Nobel prizes, right, like, because not all sleep is 93 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 5: the same. There are different types and stages of sleep, 94 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 5: and the only way to get them all and the 95 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 5: right amount is to sleep well. 96 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 7: Right, And I'd like to just add to that. 97 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 6: What with the sleep program that we found is that 98 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 6: it wasn't time in bed or time of sleep like 99 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 6: it's it was consolidated sleep. So someone listening might think 100 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 6: you're saying consistently like every night seven hours, but really 101 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,119 Speaker 6: it's you want seven hours uninterrupted to allow your body 102 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 6: to go through all the sleep stages and cycles. Without 103 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 6: that fragmentation. And I think with older adults, with all 104 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 6: the napping they end up the time that there is 105 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 6: sleep in a twenty four period might be higher, but 106 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 6: the quality is really low because they never got into 107 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:48,559 Speaker 6: that deep, restorative sleep. 108 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 7: Do I have that right, doctor Martin? 109 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 5: That's perfect, Sarah. 110 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 4: Can you tell us a little bit about the research 111 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 4: and the work you've done at Impira. 112 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 5: Yeah. 113 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 6: The resortive sleep program actually stemmed from a falls program 114 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 6: in which we were trying to identify the root cause 115 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 6: of falls and one of the things that kept coming 116 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 6: up is that these residents were reporting they were tired, 117 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 6: or staff were reporting they were weak or tired. 118 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 7: So we're like, well, maybe they need more sleep. 119 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 6: So Pierre I was able to get a grant from 120 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 6: the Department of Health to look at residents over twenty 121 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 6: five different nursing homes. What we did is we went 122 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 6: and got tigraphy watches, which is a gold standard for 123 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 6: measuring sleep, and we measured the amount that residents were sleeping. 124 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 6: And the more we learned about sleep is where we 125 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 6: really learned that they weren't sleep deprived, they had sleep fragmentation, 126 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 6: and that the sleep fragmentation was actually more harmful than 127 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 6: the sleep deprivation. 128 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 7: We thought they had. 129 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 6: You know, one of the big things we found is 130 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 6: sleep is all about your twenty four hour cycle. It's 131 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 6: not just when you sleep at night, but what you 132 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 6: do during the day to help get that resortive sleep 133 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 6: at night. And from that we were able to create 134 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 6: what we called a sleep program or a sleep initiative 135 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 6: that really involved every department. 136 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:53,360 Speaker 7: Everything we did. 137 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 6: Had an impact on someone's sleep, because again, it was 138 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 6: at twenty four hour day, so it was like looking 139 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,359 Speaker 6: at things of signing contracts with vendors, all the labs 140 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 6: want to come in and draw labs first thing in 141 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 6: the morning for residents before they go to the hospital. 142 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 6: We looked at shift change, we looked at meal times, 143 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 6: we looked at activities throughout the day, we looked at napping, 144 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 6: and we looked at the mattresses on the bed. So 145 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 6: how can we let them sleep longer uninterrupted. So that's 146 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 6: kind of like a snapshot of it. Really, sleep was 147 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 6: the fountain of youth or the foundation of healing and 148 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 6: restorative Sleep was a basic human need. 149 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 2: That's the line of this episode. 150 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, the felt like my drop right there, Sarah. 151 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 4: Once you pulled all of this research together. What was 152 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 4: the big takeaway for you? What needed to change for 153 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 4: seniors in your care? 154 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 6: I think the big summary of it is that people 155 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 6: need a night and a day care plan. 156 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 7: Right in long term care nursing home. 157 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 6: It's so easy to just create the care plan based 158 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 6: on what you do as a nurse on the day shift, 159 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 6: who made the care plan, and then the night shift 160 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 6: comes and it's their daytime really or they're awake time, 161 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 6: so they're still turning and repositioning every hour, every two hours, 162 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,239 Speaker 6: toying rounding every hour, waking residents and following that exact 163 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 6: same care plan. And that's just not good for our bodies, 164 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 6: you know. 165 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 5: I think it's so interesting, Sarah, because I also got 166 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 5: interested in sleep, actually studying sleep in nursing homes like 167 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 5: in the early nineteen nineties. 168 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 3: Oh, that's very cool. 169 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 5: And the interesting thing is the napping is not napping. 170 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 5: It's not like, oh, we have lunch and then everyone 171 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 5: goes in their room and puts their head on their 172 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 5: pillow and they have this sweet little afternoon siesta. Sure 173 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 5: what happens in nursing home. And Sarah, you pointed this 174 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 5: out so eloquently is that like sleep is just distributed 175 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 5: all over the twenty four hour day. 176 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: So when you say connected seven hours of sleep, do 177 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: you mean for all of our listeners out there, do 178 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: you mean I fall asleep at ten and I don't 179 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: see anything, remember anything. I don't get interrupted to p 180 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 1: or be with my kids or anything like that until 181 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: you know, five thirty six am. 182 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 5: Not quite that perfect, Okay. 183 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: But okay, so it might it might be a wake 184 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: up and a head and go back down, but it's 185 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: short wake up. It's not like and we're up in 186 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: our brain spinning for an hour. 187 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 7: Correct. 188 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 4: Katie's a big napper. God, I love a napp But 189 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 4: are those naps fragmenting her sleep too much? 190 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 5: You know? 191 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 4: Is she getting too long of a nap in the 192 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 4: afternoon so that when she does go to sleep at night. 193 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 4: It's why she's not getting the same kind of connective, 194 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 4: restorative sleep. 195 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 5: If napping is part of the plan and you do 196 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 5: it at the right time of day, which biologically for 197 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 5: us is in that afternoon time, it's great. But most 198 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 5: people don't have a life in the US at least 199 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 5: where they can protect that time. Most people have kind 200 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 5: of a nine to five ish gig going on, and 201 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 5: so being able to protect the time is a big problem. 202 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: Right, So I'm a weekend napper because I'm so used 203 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: to being on a more kids schedule. 204 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 6: I just want to go back to and ask doctor 205 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 6: Martin to clarify because when I was heavy in the research, 206 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 6: really we saw that napping, like that siesta kind of 207 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 6: nap what could be healthy. But that was like we 208 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,559 Speaker 6: would recommend less than thirty minutes because if you sleep 209 00:08:56,600 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 6: longer than that, what happens is you start to get 210 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 6: into your deeper stage sleep and then you kind of 211 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 6: rob from your nighttime sleep bag. Is that still an 212 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 6: accurate statement? 213 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 5: I mean, I think now we talk about there's two 214 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 5: ways to nap. There's that short kind of power nap 215 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 5: where you don't get into deep stages of sleep. And 216 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 5: then there are people who do well with like a 217 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 5: long nap like hour and a half, but then they 218 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 5: spend less time in bed at night. So again, if 219 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 5: you add it all together, and you know, it's a 220 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 5: consolidated a bout of sleep in the afternoon, not like 221 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 5: dozing off in your car, you know, or in front 222 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 5: of your television. It's like a planned sleep cycle. But 223 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 5: in general, most people feel that little burst of energy, 224 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 5: just as Sarah said, with a short nap like thirty minutes. 225 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 5: So you asked a great question to start with, which 226 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 5: is how much sleep do you need? And I said 227 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 5: seven hours? And that number actually is based on health outcomes, 228 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 5: things like development of type two diabetes, heart disease. There's 229 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 5: actually some evidence that because sleep has anti inflammatory properties, 230 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 5: that if you're chronically sleep deprived, that inflammation might even 231 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 5: make its way to your brain and increase your risk 232 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 5: of Alzheimer's disease later in life. Oh wow, Sure, he's 233 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 5: kind of still out on that one. I don't want 234 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 5: to overstate it, but there is a plausible physiological mechanism 235 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 5: for that. And when we look at research with animals 236 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 5: that have risk for Alzheimer's disease, that's what we're seeing. 237 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 6: I think it's your overall entire health, not just like 238 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 6: Alzheimer's and heart disease, but pretty much any chronic condition. 239 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 6: There's research to back that sleep has a contributing factor. 240 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 6: And if you think about sleep at its core, what 241 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 6: is it doing is sleep is really our body's medicine 242 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 6: and our body's opportunity to let the body do what 243 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 6: it's supposed to do to heal, to regenerate, to balance hormones, 244 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 6: to process memories, to process stress. 245 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 5: So you know, I think it's not irreversible, but fix 246 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 5: it now. 247 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: So, Sarah, both you and doctor Martin have worked a 248 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: lot with seniors. Let's talk about chronotypes. I have heard 249 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: of those early bird larks and night owls, you know, 250 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: I mean early bird special That's a thing we've all 251 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: heard about. Do we all turn into early birds as 252 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: we age? How does that work? 253 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 5: I could nerd out on this for like the rest 254 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:07,840 Speaker 5: of the time. 255 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 3: Let's do it. That's what the podcast is for. 256 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 5: I love this, I absolutely love this. So there's this 257 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 5: funny thing about humans. First of all, our circadian timing 258 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 5: system is genetic, and like I feel like I'm calling 259 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 5: myself old. But I remember when like the first genes 260 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 5: related to circadian timing were discovered, and it would like 261 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 5: blew our minds because we didn't really know how all 262 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 5: of this worked. But we did know that these German 263 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,800 Speaker 5: scientists who went and lived in caves away from time 264 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 5: cues didn't have a twenty four hour sleep cycle. It 265 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 5: was about twenty four hours and twenty minutes. So we 266 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 5: need the sun to like reset us every day. 267 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 7: We're all diurnal. 268 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 6: It means diurnal that we should be up during the 269 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 6: day and sleep at night. And so nobody can really 270 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,680 Speaker 6: flip and become a nocturnal. 271 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 3: Like an owl. 272 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 6: So whether you are more of an early riser or 273 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 6: a night owl or somewhere in between, there all still 274 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 6: our body does best when we sleep when the sun 275 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 6: goes down. 276 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 5: So Sarah mentioned like night owls, that is a genetic thing. 277 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 5: And some people are on the far extremes, so you 278 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 5: can tell them go to bed early and get up early, 279 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 5: and it is impossible for them to do that. 280 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: That's my husband. 281 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 3: That's my husband, that is me right there, right now. 282 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 5: Most people are in the middle. That's where the vast 283 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 5: majority of people, probably well over like ninety ninety five 284 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 5: percent of people have some ability to adjust. There is 285 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 5: this age related change where during adolescence we become more 286 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 5: night owl ish and as we age we become more 287 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 5: lark ish. So if we take out those people on 288 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 5: the far extremes, there is this pretty consistent age related adjustment, 289 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 5: which is why senior dinner specials are at five and 290 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 5: why again high school shouldn't start at seven. O'clock in 291 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 5: the morning. So your chronotype is your internal tendency, and 292 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 5: I always say the best thing in the world is 293 00:12:58,800 --> 00:12:59,839 Speaker 5: to respect your clock. 294 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 6: One thing that we had learned and we usually advise 295 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 6: people is like, when you're twenty five years old and 296 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 6: you're in your healthy time, when you can go to 297 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 6: bed at will and wake at will and wake up 298 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 6: and feel refreshed, how many hours is it? 299 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 7: And kind of pay attention to that. 300 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 5: So I think we just have a lot of segments 301 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 5: of society where we try to get people to do 302 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 5: something that messes up their sleep, and then we just 303 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 5: like kind of shrug our shoulders and say, gee, why 304 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 5: can't they get it back on track. We just publish 305 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 5: a paper recently looking at people in the military where 306 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 5: they're followed over time. There's a large study called the 307 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 5: Millennium Cohort, And what we saw actually is that sleep 308 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 5: problems pre date things like post traumatic stress disorder and depression. 309 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 5: So it's a predictor if you're not sleeping well that 310 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 5: after you're exposed to some kind of a traumatic event, 311 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 5: that you'll go on to develop mental health symptoms later. 312 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 3: Wow. 313 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:53,679 Speaker 6: I just want to share one kind of little thing 314 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 6: that we had learned so in long term care, if 315 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 6: you look at the manifestations of sleep deprivation, sleep fragmentation, 316 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 6: and they line up perfectly with psychosis and the reasons 317 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 6: that we're putting people on antipsychotics. So we had this 318 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 6: huge aha that like these people came into the nursing home, 319 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 6: they were not psychotic their whole life. They didn't have 320 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 6: these mental health disorders, and all of a sudden, they're 321 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 6: all having them. We have to look at the systems 322 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 6: around them and what we're doing to actually cause psychosis, 323 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 6: and it was the sleep fragmentation. 324 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, this is a complete reversal about again what I 325 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 5: learned in my training, which is sleep problems are a symptom. 326 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 5: And I think, Sarah, what you're getting at is we 327 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 5: have to change our mindset and start thinking about the 328 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 5: role that sleep plays now at any point in life, 329 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 5: if you chronically sleep deprive yourself, it changes your body. 330 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 4: This is a fascinating discussion and we are not done 331 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 4: more to come. 332 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:54,840 Speaker 1: Welcome back to chasing sleep. We're all getting older and 333 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: we all want to stay healthy as we do. So 334 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about sleep and aging with doctor j Jennifer 335 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: Martin and consultant for senior healthcare providers, Sarah Brown. 336 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 4: What about sex, Katie, No, I'm just sorry. Was that 337 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 4: totally out of the blue. I just was thinking about this. 338 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 6: No, not at all. 339 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 5: We've been Yeah, we've been headed in that direction for 340 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 5: a while. 341 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: And is the rumor true working in senior facilities, the 342 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: rumor is that everyone's having sex in those places. 343 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 5: I'm not answering that question. I don't know if Sarah 344 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 5: will either. 345 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 6: I've heard I'll answer it by saying, you're still a 346 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 6: human when you're older. 347 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 7: It doesn't matter what age you are. 348 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 3: Good. 349 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 2: I'm giving so many collaps for that. 350 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 4: But if you're not sleeping, well, can it contribute to 351 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 4: having a poor sex life? 352 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 5: So, yeah, you know, this is an area where so 353 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 5: there is a sleep disorder called sleep apnia, which is 354 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 5: a condition where people have a hard time breathing when 355 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 5: they sleep. These people snore, they stop breathing. It's very common, 356 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,720 Speaker 5: especially in men, and it contributes to high blood pressure, 357 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 5: and it contributes to a rectile dysfunction, both directly and 358 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 5: because then people end up on anti hypertensive medications and 359 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 5: that can affect create problems with the rectile dysfunction. So 360 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 5: that specific sleep disorder is directly linked to problems with 361 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 5: sexual health. 362 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: I just can't believe every single woman I know who's 363 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: in a heterosexual relationship with a man at a certain 364 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: age is complaining to me about how bad they're snoring 365 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: is keeping them up, and the older they get, the 366 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: snoring is the worst, and the sleep apnea. 367 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 5: I mean, I think it's also when we are sleep deprived, 368 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 5: we over interpret negative experiences emotionally and we under interpret 369 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 5: positive experiences emotionally. So I think in your relationship, kind 370 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 5: of think about that, like, what's the probability that you'll 371 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 5: be interested in sex with your partner if you're sleep deprived, 372 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 5: because again, all those positive emotions tend to be kind 373 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 5: of blunted. 374 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: So one of the things you mentioned earlier, how do 375 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 1: you see what you learned in these studies with older 376 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: veterans to the average person and how we age. 377 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 5: Let's think about the military culture as a subset of society. 378 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,960 Speaker 5: So what I hear a lot from the folks that 379 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 5: I work with and in my research is that they 380 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 5: are trained to stay awake all the time except when 381 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 5: they can sleep, and then they're supposed to fall asleep 382 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 5: at the drop of a hat, that's not how life 383 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 5: really is. So a lot of folks have to relearn 384 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 5: how to sleep well. So one of the myths that 385 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 5: we're also trying to get past is that just because 386 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 5: someone is older, that doesn't mean if they have insomnia 387 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 5: disorder sleep apnea, that we should just leave it alone, like, 388 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:52,880 Speaker 5: oh they'll be okay. 389 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a wash. We actually look, that's your thing, 390 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:56,960 Speaker 2: that's your narrative. 391 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 5: You know, yeah, no, it's I mean, older pe respond 392 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 5: just as well to treatment of sleep disorders as younger people, 393 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 5: so age shouldn't be a factor. 394 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 4: Oh that's good to know. I've always wanted to ask 395 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 4: this question. Every time I have a really early flight 396 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 4: and I don't get a lot of sleep. I'm talking 397 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 4: like two hours, three hours, and then I'm up and 398 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 4: I'm heading towards the airport. I get a really bad 399 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 4: cold for like twenty four hours after that, Katie, that 400 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 4: doesn't really happen to you, But like I every time 401 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 4: get a really bad cold if I don't get a 402 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 4: lot of sleep before flight, why what is that? 403 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 5: Sarah? Do you want to with your nursing background, if 404 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 5: like you're the one to talk about the immune system. 405 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 6: Well, so really, our immunities are built during sleep, so tearing, 406 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 6: you know, breaking down your immune system by withholding sleep 407 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 6: and not giving that restoration to your immune system definitely 408 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 6: makes you more susceptible. And then traveling you're more exposed 409 00:18:48,119 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 6: to people's germs. 410 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 5: All kinds of yucky stuff. 411 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 3: Wow. 412 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 5: Yeah, I have to tell you my own personal rule. 413 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 5: For work, I do not fly overnight and I do 414 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 5: not take a six am flight out of lax Yep. 415 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 5: Now for fun, I do whatever a lot, but I 416 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 5: just kind of made this decision that I like, I 417 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 5: have to respect what I'm telling everybody else and I'm 418 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,639 Speaker 5: not going to stay up all night to catch a 419 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 5: flight to go talk about sleep. 420 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 4: That sounds like a good policy. Doctor Martin, what would 421 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 4: you say to those of us who are pulling all nighters? 422 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 4: I mean, we've all done that at some point. What 423 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 4: is the impact on our overall health? Can we get 424 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 4: away with pulling it on it? 425 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 5: Yes? So we're fine, Like we can cope with a 426 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 5: little bit of variation. Always say you can have cake 427 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 5: on your birthday, you can't have it every day, three 428 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 5: times a day. The problem is what a lot of 429 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 5: students do is they get six hours of sleep every night, 430 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 5: so they're super sleep deprived, and then they pull an 431 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 5: all nighter on top of it. And that's where we see, 432 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,959 Speaker 5: you know again, dangerous levels of sleepiness, mood alterations. You know, 433 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 5: we have a long conversation in this country about suicide, right, 434 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 5: it turns out that poor sleep is a pretty potent 435 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 5: predictor of thinking about and attempting suicide across ag. 436 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: I have been jaw dropped multiple times. And Sarah, this 437 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: is like one of my favorite questions about sleep and aging, 438 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: and Sarah, you touched on this. I have a grandfather 439 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: that passed away of Alzheimer's and a grandmother that passed 440 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: away with dementia. And I'm curious, as we get older 441 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: and we have a lot more life experiences that we 442 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: store in our brains, how does sleep affect our memories 443 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: and our memory. 444 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 6: When it relates to memories, my answer would be, it 445 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 6: doesn't matter how old you are. If you're not sleeping, 446 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 6: you're going to have a harder time accessing executive function 447 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 6: in your brain, no matter what age you are, because 448 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 6: your body is under stress, and when we're under stressed, 449 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 6: we can't access that higher level of executive functioning so 450 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 6: some of the memory recall might get harder, our sharpness, 451 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 6: mental sharpness might be harder. We might be more confused 452 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 6: or forgetful for all ages. 453 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: Right, But knowing all of this, how should younger sleepers 454 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: approach their sleep now to improve their quality of life 455 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: and ensure high quality life well into the later years 456 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: of your life. 457 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 6: So one of the big things I think with younger 458 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 6: people is going to bed with your smartphone and that 459 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 6: being exposed to that blue light that's going to disrupt 460 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 6: our melatonin production and also just it's stimulating our brain, 461 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 6: so it's harder for us to fall asleep. 462 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 7: So staying off with tablets. 463 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 3: And how long should we stay off them before bedtime? 464 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 6: At least a half an hour, but like two hours 465 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:34,160 Speaker 6: before bed would be great. 466 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, Adam, you screwed. 467 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 4: I mean that's when I look at the gram. Is 468 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 4: it weird that I kissed my iPhone good night? 469 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 3: Is that? Is that? Am I too close with my 470 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 3: iPhone at that point? 471 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 6: Yes, that's very unhealthy. But if you're going to bed, 472 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,360 Speaker 6: you know, be in a dark room or amber red 473 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 6: light that wavelength is better for your melatonin production as well, 474 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,240 Speaker 6: and then move your body during the day like, I 475 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 6: can't emphasize enough how much our sleep is tied to 476 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 6: our full twenty four hours. If you can learn to 477 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 6: meditate the younger you are, or you know, just quiet 478 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 6: reflection time is helpful and to calm that silence. Because 479 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 6: I look back in my younger twenties, before I like 480 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 6: had a family, and if I could have started to 481 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 6: practice like that, calm down, just things to calm down 482 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,240 Speaker 6: my mind, calm down my body for me, like I 483 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 6: take warm bath or warm shower before bed. 484 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 7: That temperature regulation can be helpful. 485 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 2: Oh that's what I do. 486 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: That's nice, really really insightful and helpful. Final cueue, how 487 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: do we encourage parents or even grandparents of the importance 488 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: of good sleep? 489 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 5: So I think the most promising development in terms of 490 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 5: sleep and aging is that we now know that one 491 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 5: of the ways to age successfully is to take care 492 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,199 Speaker 5: of your sleep. I mean, I did a lot of 493 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 5: things with my sleep that I wouldn't do now. And 494 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 5: I have to say that I feel really good that 495 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 5: my kids, one of whom is a college student and 496 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 5: one is a high school student, like they they do 497 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 5: pay attention to their sleep and think about their schedules 498 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 5: and their activities. In ways that we just didn't know, 499 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 5: and I would I would just add that, you know, 500 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 5: if we think about what we spend on a car 501 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 5: versus what we spend on a mattress, where we spend 502 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 5: a third of our lives, I think maybe we should 503 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 5: think about some priorities. And at the same time, I 504 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 5: also have to recognize that not everyone can afford to 505 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,120 Speaker 5: go out and buy a very expensive mattress. But the 506 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 5: surface on which we spend a third of our lives 507 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 5: is not something to take like lightly. There's no like 508 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:37,520 Speaker 5: magic bullet. Everyone has their own preferences. I'm the kind 509 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 5: of person when you go to a hotel and you're like, oh, 510 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 5: I really like that, Like what kind of mattresses is? 511 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 5: Why did I like it? What was so great about it? 512 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 5: And the other kind of less expensive option is really 513 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,719 Speaker 5: nice betting. So if you can't afford to replace your 514 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 5: mattress right now, you know, what about some really nice 515 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,560 Speaker 5: pillowcases or something that just makes your bed an inviting 516 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 5: place to be. But like I said, I think for 517 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,199 Speaker 5: most people really spending some time thinking about the investment 518 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 5: that you put into your sleep environment and again remembering 519 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 5: that you're going to spend seven eight hours of each 520 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 5: twenty four hour day right there. And if you have 521 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 5: a sleep disorder like sleep apnea or you struggle with 522 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 5: chronic insomnia, that getting treatment still benefits people regardless of 523 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 5: their age. 524 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: Sarah, do you have any REX on how to help 525 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: people If you have. 526 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,000 Speaker 6: A loved one who is in a nursing home or 527 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 6: that you're providing care for, I would really just advocate 528 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 6: that you would advocate for your loved one or yourself 529 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 6: to say, my care plan should read that I want 530 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 6: uninterrupted sleep. Like in nursing homes, the mattress can make 531 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 6: all the difference in the world. A high density film 532 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 6: mattress where you don't need to be turning and repositioning 533 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 6: the body has protective mechanisms while we're sleeping. So nursing 534 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 6: homes struggle though, because there's so much litigation that you've 535 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,439 Speaker 6: got to kind of say I want this, and I 536 00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 6: want you to go outside your norm and I will 537 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 6: sign in a formed consent, but sleep is very important 538 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 6: to us, and we want you to update the care 539 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 6: plan to reflect that. Without doing that, it's unlikely that 540 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 6: the nursing homes are going to vary from their standard practice. 541 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 6: We've been getting the message out for years, but culture 542 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 6: change and practice change takes years. So if you have 543 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 6: a loved one even in the hospital too and a 544 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 6: short hospitals say ask like we want it in their 545 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 6: care plan, leave them uninterrupted. 546 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 3: That's great to know that that's something that we can 547 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:26,879 Speaker 3: advocate for. Well. 548 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 6: Growing up, I used to tell my friends sleep when 549 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 6: you die, and I was kind of the life of 550 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,959 Speaker 6: the party. And right now seeing that short term and 551 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 6: cumulative effective poor sleep, it really is your best medicine. 552 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: Thank you both so much, doctor Martin and Sarah Brown. 553 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for all the work you were 554 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: doing around sleep your studies. And I'm so I like 555 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 1: I said, I if we were seeing this, I spent 556 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: most of this episode with my mouth completely agape. 557 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 2: I have learned so much. 558 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: From both of you, and I'm so appreciative of your time. 559 00:25:58,720 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 560 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 3: Thank you for coming on Chasing Sleep. 561 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 5: Thanks thanks for having us. 562 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: It's been a lot of fun, Adam, I learned so 563 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: much from that conversation. I mean, can you believe what 564 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,720 Speaker 1: they said about Alzheimer's and dementia. 565 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 4: Yeah, it really brings into focus just how important good 566 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 4: sleep really is. 567 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,159 Speaker 3: Yes, we we talked about sleep deprivation. 568 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 4: I love that that sleep deprivation is actually can be 569 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 4: used as a as a predictor for other mental conditions 570 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 4: as opposed to, oh, these mental conditions are hurting the 571 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 4: person's sleep. 572 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 3: We can use sleep. 573 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 4: Not only as sleep our medicine, but sleep is like 574 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 4: this great predictor. 575 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 3: Of what might be coming down the road. 576 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: How about our personal you and me, Adam, were you 577 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 1: so pumped to finally ask why you get sick? 578 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 3: That's been something that's been bothering me forever. 579 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 4: Why why when I wake up, you know, after three 580 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 4: hours of sleep to get on. 581 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: A flight, Because we learned today lack of quality of 582 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: sleep harms our immune system, leaving us more susceptible to disease. 583 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: How about this banger getting off the phone and other 584 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,119 Speaker 1: screens at least thirty minutes, but I'm pretty sure she 585 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: said two hours, Adam. 586 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 4: That well, that's a huge thing for the young people too, 587 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 4: because healthy sleep habits now that are going to you know, 588 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 4: have them be successful healthy sleepers. Later, it's time to 589 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,639 Speaker 4: start getting off those screens before bedtime. 590 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 3: Oh boy. 591 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: We also we need to add that sleep dot com 592 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 1: is also a great resource for information on nearly every 593 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: aspect of sleep. Great resource and the last huge mic drop, 594 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: we need to go shopping. Think about what people are 595 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,399 Speaker 1: willing to spend other mattresses. Considering that you spend a 596 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: third of your life laying on your mattress, I feel 597 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: like we need to put more emphasis on that when 598 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: we are looking for a mattress. 599 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,199 Speaker 3: Let's go shopping baby. 600 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: On our next episode, we are talking about sleep and creativity. 601 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 3: I am excited about this. 602 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 4: I've always used this as an excuse as to why 603 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,760 Speaker 4: I have to sleep late like my whole life. 604 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,680 Speaker 3: Right you totally yeah. 605 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 4: I hope that this backs my theory that I need 606 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 4: my sleep in the morning and in the meantime. We'd 607 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 4: love to hear what you think about the podcast right now, 608 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 4: go to your podcast player and rate and review Chasing 609 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 4: Sleep please, or. 610 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: You can also find us at our socials on the Insta. 611 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: I'm Katie q. 612 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 3: Lows and I am Shabby Shafts. 613 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: And don't forget to follow or subscribe so you never 614 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: miss an episode until next time. 615 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 3: I hope you're living your best while sleeping your best. 616 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: Chasing Sleep is a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia 617 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: in partnership with Mattress Firm. Our executive producer is Molly Sosha. 618 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 4: This show was written and produced by Sound That Brands, 619 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 4: Dave Beeson, Jason Jackson, and Michelle Rice. 620 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: This episode was hosted by Katie Lows and Adam Shapiro. 621 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: Thank you to our partners at Mattress Firm.