1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Fourth grade was a big year at HP DuPont Middle 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: School because it's the year we got to join the band. 3 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: And on the day we picked out instruments, I chose 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: the clarinet. M not because I liked the clarinet, but 5 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: because my best friend Jeremy chose the clarinet, and I 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: figured we could sit next to each other. What I 7 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: didn't realize was that Jeremy and I were the only 8 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: two boys who would picked the clarinet. And I also 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: didn't realize that he'd be really, really good at it. 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: So you know, we started out the year sitting next 11 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: to one another, but a month later I was stuck 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: starring at the back of his head with about seventeen 13 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: or eighteen girls sitting between us. But and I promised, 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: there's a point to this. It wasn't long before the 15 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: kids in my school started poking fun at the boys 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: who played clarinet. It wasn't as quote girly as the flute, 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: but was in the same bracket. So I started a 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: pr campaign. I said, the clarinets great because it gets 19 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: you out of study hall. It's great because you can 20 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: use the carrying cases of shield and snowball fights. It's 21 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: great because you can cope the read in fun dip, 22 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: which I actually did, so it tastes like cherry candy 23 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: while you play, and you cannot do that with a trumpet. 24 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: Like a nine year old Don Draper, I took this 25 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: thing that was seen as not fit for boys and 26 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: started a campaign to make it a thing of envy, 27 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: and I kind of spun my way out of any bullying. 28 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: Like I've said before, my grandfather was a botanist, so 29 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: I never saw a gardening or really most things ex gendered. 30 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 1: I was encouraged to pursue the arts, and really just 31 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: anything I was interested in. I was never told cooking 32 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 1: or sport, or dance, or engineering or men's or women's work. 33 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: That's kind of how my family was, and that just 34 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: wasn't my home. But last week, as I started thinking 35 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: about what sort of flowers I might try to plant 36 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,640 Speaker 1: in my garden, I kept stumbling into these weirdly gendered 37 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: posts on the Internet. They screened things like do you 38 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: real men garden? Three reasons why flowers can be masculine, 39 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: manly horticulturists, and history. In a strange way, it felt 40 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: like algorithms were trying to tell me don't worry. It's 41 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: okay to be a guy and garden. And it made 42 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: me wonder, how is the culture around gender and gardening changed, 43 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: and does gardening feel like a safe space for everyone 44 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: to get their hands dirty? Let's dig in. Hey there, 45 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: I'm Mongish Particular, co host of Part Time Genius, one 46 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: of the founders of Mental Flaws, and this is Humans 47 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: Growing Stuff, a collaboration from My Heart Radio and your 48 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: friends at Miracle Grow. Our goal is to make this 49 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: the most human show about plants you'll ever listen to. 50 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: Along the way, we'll share inspiring stories, tips and tricks 51 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 1: to or to your plane addiction, and just enough science 52 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: to make you sound like an expert. Today's show is 53 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,639 Speaker 1: all about gender and gardening, what your plants say about you, 54 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: and how men have opened up their arms and their 55 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: hearts to embrace the world of growing. Chapter eleven, Plant 56 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: Daddy's Miracle Burrows and the Seeds of Modern masculinity. Maybe 57 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 1: this is just how I want to view the world. 58 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: But one of the things I found heartening about watching 59 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: kids today hang out in New York is that kids 60 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: who are clearly artsy, you're gay, you're queer, don't seem 61 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: to be ostracized or bullied the way they were when 62 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: I was younger. I don't know whether it's the Internet 63 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 1: or the way TV has shaped us, or maybe being 64 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: raised by a generation that grew up on Mr. Rogers, 65 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,839 Speaker 1: but it feels like there's less pressure to fit into 66 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: a certain stereotypical mold and more space to explore who 67 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: you are and who you want to be. And it 68 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: made me consider just how much things have changed. I 69 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 1: was reading Michael Perry's Mr. Plant Geek website this week 70 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: and I stumbled into this article he wrote called Beating 71 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: the Stigma around gender and Gardening. In it, he writes 72 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: about hiding his love from gardening from his schoolmates the 73 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: same way he hit his sexuality. And in one paragraph 74 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: he talks about being called a pansy on the playground 75 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,799 Speaker 1: and how quote the way school bullies grabbed that innocent 76 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: plant name and used it to hurt me really summed 77 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: up how they felt about my less than masculine weekend hobby. 78 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: Just hearing that made my stomach drop, and I want 79 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: to hear how his perspective has changed, how he's learned 80 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: to embrace his identity as a gardener. So we called 81 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: him up Hey, Michael, Hey, how's it coming. Hey, It's 82 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: so nice to have you back on the program. I've 83 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: got to say I loved your tips so much, and 84 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: and I loved all the plants that I showed my kids, 85 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: the dancing plant, how you could hang flowers upside down, 86 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: and all these amazing wonders. But I'm thrilled to have 87 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: you back on the program. Oh, no problems. It's good 88 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: to be here and good to share my love of 89 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 1: innovation and new plants and new ways of growing plants 90 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: and most of all, easier ways to grow the parts 91 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: we love. Yeah. So, so today we're talking about masculinity 92 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: and gardening, and I want to get into that topic. 93 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: But before any of that, I know, the last time 94 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: we chad with you, you were, I think, just laying 95 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: down concrete in your backyard and your gardens. How's that 96 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: coming along? Well, we're developed now, So it's the finishing 97 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: touches because everything obviously after the concrete then came the decking, painting. 98 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: I then planted everything. So I planted lots of bulbs, 99 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: lots of bear roots. So I've been able to really 100 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: multi plant and have some real colonies of bulbs, and 101 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: and I tend to plant them very closely together as well, 102 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,280 Speaker 1: because I like them to support each other, and so 103 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: I have that kind of informality and just keeping my 104 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: fingers crossed that everything I planted will appear. So it's 105 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: always a bit of a leap of faith when you 106 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: plant something in the autumn and you don't see anything 107 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: until spring, and it's kind of, you know, it still 108 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: makes me kind of like get anxious, as it were. 109 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: Once I get my tulips with their lovely, luscious leaves, 110 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: you know, dangling over my concrete, I'll be happy. That 111 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: sounds nice. So, you know, one of the things that 112 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 1: we're talking about on this program is about masculinity and 113 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 1: gardening and also just like beating the stigma around gender 114 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: and rightening. And so I know you wrote an article 115 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: about this a while ago, and I really loved reading it. 116 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: I was curious what prompted you to put your feelings 117 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: out there and right about this topic. I think kind 118 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: of my love of plants and sexuality have always been 119 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: kind of intertwined, both in a good way and in 120 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: a bad way. And I'm just really jealous now of 121 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: younger people these days because it's so much easier to 122 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: be yourself. And I don't just mean sexuality wise, I 123 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: mean in terms of following your interests the things you 124 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: really love, because we've got the Internet, which has really helped, 125 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: and social media, so you can find other people that 126 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 1: are interested in that very niche thing that you're interested in. 127 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: So it just kind of helps the whole sense of community. 128 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: And it's funny because I don't know, when you're interested 129 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: in plants from a young aide, you are automatically kind 130 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: of you know, people take the mick out of you 131 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: and they kind of call your pansy or all sorts 132 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 1: of different awful names, which are obviously relating to your 133 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: love of plants, but also you know, tinged with that 134 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: sexuality edge as well. So it's kind of hopefully things 135 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: have changed a lot these days, but it's kind of 136 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: like for me that plants and the sexuality have always 137 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: been intertwined, you know. Yeah, I mean, I I think 138 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,280 Speaker 1: what you're saying is true about community and being able 139 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: to find community through the Internet. People felt so alone 140 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 1: and even finding information was difficult. Yeah, the YouTube videos 141 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: are are so easy to access now at versus like 142 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: the difficulty of like having to go to the library, 143 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: having to find specialty books like finding someone with that interest, right, Yeah, 144 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: And I do wonder if the world opening up, the 145 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: kind of community opening up, you know, at the same 146 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: time as people getting to know each other, they've realized 147 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: that there are more people out there like them, which 148 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: is you know, obviously gay bye, you know, and interested 149 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: in plants and so on. It's funny because the last 150 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: time we talked, we chatted about your love of gardening 151 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: partially coming from your grandparents home, right, and and and 152 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: watching your grandparents garden. And I always wanted to do 153 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: more gardening because my grandfather was a botanist, but those 154 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: ideas were so romantic. And then to know that you 155 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: kind of had to hide these feelings in school is 156 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: is really I don't know, it's depressing. I don't know, 157 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: I kind of hit it. I still had a really 158 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: nice time within that because I made I created my 159 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: own world, my own world where I was, you know, 160 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: loving plants, spending time with plants, and you know, obviously 161 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: the school part of it was just you know, the 162 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: thing that had to be bearable. But I didn't necessary 163 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: hide it from my friends, but I just didn't mention 164 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: it in particularly you know, or yeah, yeah, or I 165 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: would have said I was playing with something cool at 166 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: the weekend, like lego or something that you had the 167 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: idea of, Like growing something out of nothing and watching 168 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: a plasts im and sharing food is so much cooler 169 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: than sticking legos together in something, unless you make it 170 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: a Lego bouquet or something like. Yeah, So tell me 171 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: a little bit about when you started opening up to 172 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: your school friends or more people about this gardening identity 173 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: you had. Yeah, it's really hard to judge. And I 174 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: wonder if I was a straight guy, if I would 175 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: have felt the same embarrassment about loving plants. But then 176 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: in those days, it wasn't cool to like anything that 177 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 1: was kind of out of the ordinary anyway. There was 178 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: always some trend where there was always some jacket you 179 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,199 Speaker 1: had to have, or you know, when it was teenage 180 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: mutant ninja turtles, you had to be interested in that, 181 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 1: and if you're interested in anything else, then you would 182 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: be kind of, you know, an outcast. So yeah, I 183 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: do think it was hard to be an individual in 184 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: any way in those days. Yeah. I feel like I've 185 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 1: seen magazine articles and website articles recently about how it's 186 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 1: okay to give men flowers and the type of flowers 187 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: men like, and it's so strange to put any sort 188 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: of limits or ideas on those things. Yeah, I know, 189 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: I know, it's so bizarre. Social media has changed so 190 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: much because now I sometimes I'm on there and one 191 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: of my friends that has probably taken the mick out 192 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: of me liking plants in the past is then buying 193 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,079 Speaker 1: their their first house plant, you know. So everyone's been 194 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: you know, carried along with this journey, which is fantastic. 195 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: And then of course you put pandemic into the mix 196 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: and that is the thing that has accelerated it as well. Yeah, 197 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: it's a golden time for us because we're accepted from 198 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: all angles. Couldn't be better. No, I completely agree. I've 199 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: done two kids, and I watched it at my kids school, 200 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: and my seven year old identifies as a day And 201 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: it's amazing to see the sort of acceptance that is 202 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: there in the world and and of all interests in 203 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: a new way that I just don't think was there 204 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: at least when I was growing up. Yeah, No, totally. 205 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: It's just it's amazing. Really, I'd like, I'd like to 206 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: be younger now and see if it would be easier 207 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: or perhaps then these days there's different worries. I think 208 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: there's just a different set of things to worry about. Now. 209 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: I agree, there's always face to occupy that worry. Unfortunately, 210 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: So our episode is about plant Daddy's and you know, 211 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what those words mean exactly. Do 212 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: you enjoy that sort of moniker or take any pride 213 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: in it? Yeah, I mean it's it's never not puzzling 214 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: because you know, kind of loving plants was something that 215 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: wasn't popular, you know, obviously being gay with something that 216 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: wasn't popular. It's just amazing that those two worlds, two 217 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,679 Speaker 1: worlds that I'm very involved in, collided in this way. 218 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: And I'm not single, but I can see that there's 219 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: a lot of dating elements that go in there, and 220 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 1: it almost seems like people meet each other through plant 221 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: daddy hashtag on Instagram or through you know, Facebook page 222 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: with boys with plants or similar and I think a 223 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 1: lot of guys are meeting through that method these days 224 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: rather than your typical you meet up apps or different 225 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: ways that you might have dated in the past, which 226 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: is very really interesting thing to look in on because 227 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,719 Speaker 1: that is a very different movement as well. Yeah, you 228 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: talk a little earlier about your own garden, and the 229 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: idea of bob supporting each other sounds kind of adorable. 230 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,560 Speaker 1: I also find it super interesting that you said bob's 231 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 1: grow better together in community. It's not dissimilar from humans really. 232 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: So why do you grow the bulbs in that way? Well, 233 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: I'm quite an impatient gardener, so I always want to 234 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 1: have impact as soon as possible. So even with my garden, 235 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: you know, I talk about the leap of faith of 236 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: growing bulbs in the autumn and then having to wait 237 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: until the spring, and it's just it's it's far too much. 238 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: So when the bulbs come through, I want them to 239 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: have impact from the world goes. So I tend to 240 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 1: plant them very closely, you know, much more closely than 241 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: it would tell you on the label or on the instructions, 242 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: because I want that impact sooner, and I want them 243 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: to kind of be this lovely big clump and this 244 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: like vivid color explosion. And of course when you plant 245 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: them closer, it makes more sense because the bulbs, the 246 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: stems all support each other, because you've got this big 247 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: almost thicket of growth that is then supporting all the 248 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: flower heads rather than a single bulb, you know, solitary 249 00:13:57,600 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: in the border, and another one is six inches away. 250 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: It's just it doesn't make sense because they're just going 251 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: to blow about all over the place. Well, I like 252 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: the idea also of um, you know, the idea of 253 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: these bulbs near each other and supporting each other rather 254 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: than isolated. There's something wonderful and that. Yeah, I mean, 255 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: it's it's very interesting because the fact I've been talking 256 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: about bulbs being planted closely together and that gives support 257 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: and it gives a kind of more community feel. It 258 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: has a bigger effect that really relates a lot to 259 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: how life is and how life has been with social 260 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: media is the lubricant and kind of the the openness 261 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: that we now have the ability to find like minded 262 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: individuals that we then support each other and then we 263 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: you know, we amplify gardening and the whole plant world. 264 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a it's a really interesting parallel. There. 265 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: Just a few final tips. Now a spring is hitting 266 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: here in Brooklyn. Anything I should be thinking about as 267 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: I'm figuring out what to do with my garden. Gosh, well, 268 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: it's time soon to are some vegetables and some salad 269 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: crops outdoors or if you haven't got any outside, then 270 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: it could be micro greens on a window cell, or 271 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: if you are guarding the inside, then soon your house 272 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: plants are going to start needing some feed again and 273 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: a bit more water, so hopefully you've given them a 274 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: bit of a win to rest, but soon they'll be 275 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: bouncing back into life. Michael, thank you so much for 276 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: being here with us. I feel like I can't wait 277 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: to see what your garden looks like on your Instagram 278 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: and then how it changes a year from then. Hey, 279 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: no worries. Thank you very much. It's been really really 280 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: cool to be here and speak to you again, and 281 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: hope to talk to you again sometime soon. That sounds wonderful. 282 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: Humans growing stuff will be right back after a short break. 283 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: The other day, I was scrolling through the comments section 284 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: of Reddit posts with strangers, trying to figure out what's 285 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: going to happen on the next in of Lupin, and 286 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: it reminded me that while the Internet is a source 287 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: of a lot of truly truly awful things, you get 288 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: moments like this when we get to connect with people 289 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: around the world who are so different from us about 290 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: topics we have a shared interest in and In this case, 291 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 1: it was a heated debate about what we think we 292 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: know about being a successful jewel thief in France that 293 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 1: none of us has any expertise in. But thanks to 294 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: platforms like Instagram and Interest, we've seen more and more 295 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: communities come together, including men embracing their love of house 296 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: plants in these creative and very expressive ways. In large part, 297 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: these sites are where the plant daddy movement was born. 298 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: Living at the intersection of horticulture and sexuality, the plant 299 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: daddy movement has given men this opportunity to display a 300 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 1: new side of masculinity and create a space for men 301 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: to connect with each other as human over their love 302 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: of plants. You know, most plant daddies are house plant parents, 303 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: and this growing trend has been gaining numbers for the 304 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: last few years. According to a survey from the National 305 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: Gardening Association, millennials account for one fourth of plant purchases 306 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: in two thousand eighteen, and it's important to note that 307 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: tropical house plants were the dominant purchase there and more 308 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: significantly than any of that, men made up fifty three 309 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 1: of those purchases. So today you can follow accounts like 310 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: Boys with Plants and see men of all shapes and 311 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: sizes and backgrounds, posing proudly with their parlor palms or 312 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: bird's nest ferns. Because, more than anything, the plant Daddy 313 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: movement is rooted in freedom of expression. So much of 314 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: our show is about not stereotyping people and boxing them in, 315 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: but YouTube diva Miss Lady. The Plant Lady enjoys analyzing 316 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: the plants in your collection and using them to do 317 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: exactly that interpret your personality. For her, plants are like 318 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: a zodiac chart, telling her everything she needs to know 319 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: about the type of man or person who cares for 320 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: I don't know a zz plant. So this week we 321 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,679 Speaker 1: invited her to share her powers of perception with us 322 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,680 Speaker 1: and give us the t on different types of plant owners? 323 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 1: Is this lady on the other side? Was Getty? Was Getty? 324 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: Was getdy? Miss Lady to the plant Lady, I'm so 325 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: excited to have you on. I've seen your features in 326 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: Paper Magazine, I've read about you on Apartment Therapy, I've 327 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: seen your Instagram and it's just so fun to be 328 00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: chatting with you. What's that boom? I'm happy to be 329 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: here and excited to be chatting with you. So I'm 330 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: a little nervous about this. I'm going to give you 331 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: the name of a plant, and I want your take 332 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: on the personnel, the traits of the plant. Dad who 333 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: lives with this plant? Perfect, Let's do it. Let's let 334 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 1: me get these chakras ready, let me get these vibes ready. 335 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: So what does it mean if someone has a pathos 336 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: plant on their mantle? Okay, well, if you go into 337 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,160 Speaker 1: their house and this man has a pathos in his house, 338 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,640 Speaker 1: he is a man who is a little basic. He's 339 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: not the one, you know what. I love me some pothos, 340 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,959 Speaker 1: and I own know myself, so I'm maybe reading myself 341 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: a little bit. Pothos are great. They're really resilient. You 342 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: could literally put them anywhere and they're gonna like survive 343 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: and thrive and do their thing in nature. They're amazing. 344 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: They're climbers, they get huge and all that. But the 345 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: kind of person who brings it into their home, there's 346 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: no thought process to it is just Okay, this will survive. 347 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: We'll just throw it here. Avoid But that's just that's 348 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: the team. So this is another plant that I feel like. 349 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: These fiddle leaf figs are everywhere, and I'm curious what 350 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: your thoughts are when you walk into an apartment and 351 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: see one on full display. Okay this and like you 352 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: really cancel me right now, but I have like my 353 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: hand on my forehead and I'm just like, stay stay 354 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 1: away from this man. To be honest, I've never even 355 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: owned a fiddle leaf fig and I've owned like pretty 356 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: much every plant you live in a rainforest essentially right 357 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: your apartment, pretty much. And this is the one plant 358 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: I do not let into my into my space because 359 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: of the energy that it gives off. A few basic 360 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: traits that I would give a person who has a 361 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: fiddle leaf is they're a little selfish and it's either 362 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: their way or the highway, you know. Like fiddle leaves, 363 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:32,440 Speaker 1: once you put them in a place in your house 364 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: and they start to grow, don't touch them, don't do 365 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: anything different, leave them where they're at, because they'll drop 366 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: leaves like crazy, they'll get brown edges. It is the 367 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: most problematic plant. They just show you no kind of love, 368 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: too finicky, and we don't want that. We don't want 369 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:57,359 Speaker 1: that energy. N you know, no, I feel that. To 370 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,680 Speaker 1: tell me about succulents and and maybe cacti in particular, 371 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: I feel like it's all bad news. Okay, I don't 372 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: really care for plants that can hurt me, thorn, spikes, 373 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. So the aura that I 374 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: get from a man who has a cacti is good 375 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: from Afar, but far from good. When you're growing these 376 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: luscious grain tropical plants, you love touching the foliage and 377 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: seeing like the textures. Some are velvety, some are rubbery 378 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: and leathery, and it's part of this relationship with your plants. 379 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: And I really feel like succulents represent that kind of 380 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: man that is totally closed off. He's very beautiful, he's handsome, 381 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: he's gorgeous. So when you get close and you try 382 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: to touch, you donna get spikes. And we're not dealing 383 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,919 Speaker 1: with that. We're not just a good from Afar, but 384 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 1: far from good. So I am ready for some good news. Yes, 385 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: what are your feelings on zz plants? Now? See, this 386 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 1: is a plant I could get behind. ZZ is completely 387 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,840 Speaker 1: and de rated. It might not be the showiest plant, 388 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: but let me tell you, the z z is gonna 389 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: stick with you through thick and thin. Z z s 390 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: don't eat that much water. They're very hardy and resilient plants. 391 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 1: You could even sometimes throw a z eazy in a 392 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: closet for like a month or two and go check 393 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 1: it in a month and it will still be alive. 394 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: It won't be thriving. Don't do that to the poor 395 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 1: is easy, you know. And yeah, So in regards to 396 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 1: a man who has his zaz, he is a man 397 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: who is loyal, who is going to stick with you 398 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: through the good times and the bad times. And that's 399 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: the man you marry if you believe in that. So 400 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 1: I approve of that. So I have another one for 401 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,439 Speaker 1: you that I'm seeing pop up a whole lot recently 402 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: on Pinterest. And I think it's called and Thorium waa quiana. 403 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,359 Speaker 1: Do you know how do you know what that is? Yes? 404 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,439 Speaker 1: And Theorium walk Reanum queen and they um and like 405 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: in the plant community right now there's like spikes and 406 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,880 Speaker 1: plants that become very popular. The variegated monstera and then 407 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: the Pink Princess was one, and now it's the Intherium 408 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: war Aquianum or the Queen and Theorium. And this one 409 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: is an interesting one. It's detail oriented. The man who 410 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: has this characteristics that really like describe him are somebody 411 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 1: who is invested in you, and invested in life, and 412 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,479 Speaker 1: invested in the little things, because he knows the fruits 413 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,640 Speaker 1: that come when you pay attention and put focus on life, relationships, 414 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: work all of those things. So I get behind that 415 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,639 Speaker 1: man too. He's a lot more work than diseasing, but 416 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,360 Speaker 1: worth it. But worth it, Go bigger, go home. Right. 417 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,720 Speaker 1: I saw them with a friend and they said that 418 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: it looked like cheetos were growing out of it. Yes, 419 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: the inflorescence, yes, they get pollinated. The fruits turn orange, 420 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: which is really cool. Yeah. And and one last question, 421 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: I read that part of your design sense comes from 422 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 1: from your grandparents, from the way your grandmother kept the house, 423 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: but your father's exotic bird collection, and I was curious, 424 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,640 Speaker 1: what sort of matches your grandfather's personality. Yeah, I mean 425 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 1: my grandfather always the birds that he brought were just 426 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: always very exotic. And I was born in the US 427 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: that day, came over from Cuba in nine and because 428 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 1: of them always telling me, like their stories of how 429 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: it was in Cuba and them growing up seeing like 430 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: my grandfather bringing in like plants that were reminiscent of Cuba, 431 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: like that they're like planning them around the house or 432 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: inside the house and even some of the birds and 433 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: stuff that they had always felt that was the connection, 434 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,400 Speaker 1: you know, plants and animals like that was my connection 435 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: to Oh, this is the piece of Cuba that I 436 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: didn't get to experience with them, But I'm experiencing it 437 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 1: with them in real time right now, and you know, 438 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,719 Speaker 1: and I feel like a lot of the birds were 439 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,439 Speaker 1: always like beautiful and like flamboyant and stuff like that, 440 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: and I feel like it was a reflection of how 441 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: he like viewed Cuba. Well, I love these descriptions. I 442 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: can't wait to go out into the world and stereotype 443 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: everyone based on their plant touchtions. But but I really 444 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: appreciate this, miss lady. It's been so fun. It was 445 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: so fun. Thank you for having me. If you ever 446 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: need me to read some more plant horoscopes, let me 447 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: know we'll do. One of my favorite sites on the 448 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: web is the sociology site Society Pages, and I love 449 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,200 Speaker 1: it because they analyze culture in all sorts of intriguing ways. 450 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: Like in one post, they analyzed over kids books, including 451 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: Richard Scarry's Busy Town Books, and they learned that mice 452 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: and pigs mostly get depicted in service industry jobs. While 453 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: more predatory creatures like lions often end up as executives. 454 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 1: They also do a couple of interest collections, including one 455 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: of pointlessly gendered items, and the page is filled with 456 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: real items like manrea sangria, men can feel comfortable drinking 457 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 1: at barbecues, chap fix chapter that's engineered for men, and 458 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: cleanex for men, which sports man sized tissues. If we're 459 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: being honest, it all feels a little ridiculous, doesn't it, 460 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: Like why do men need a manly label to justify 461 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 1: that they like fruit in wine? Or why would someone 462 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: feel inadequate about buying tissues to blow their nose in? 463 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: It is a bodily need, and when you're about to sneeze, 464 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 1: most people are just looking for something to sneeze into 465 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: and grateful they have any tissues on hand, let alone 466 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: something gendered. But the truth is there is nothing gendered 467 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,679 Speaker 1: about any of these products, and there's no reason to 468 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,280 Speaker 1: feel less of a man because you're passionate about plant care. 469 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,439 Speaker 1: But where does this all come from? The site also 470 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: has an interesting history of gardening on it, showing how 471 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: the nation's first popular garden designer, this guy named Andrew 472 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: Jackson Downing, who I guess was a Martha Stewart like 473 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: taste maker taught people how to design a tasteful garden 474 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: way back in the eighteen forties. So as more and 475 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: more houses were set back from the street, Downing wrote quote, 476 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: men should tend the lawn walkways, vegetables and fruit trees, 477 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:21,399 Speaker 1: and women the flowers. Meanwhile, a book called Gardening for Ladies, 478 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: published in England around the same time, encouraged women to 479 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: gain in the garden and actually gave them permission to 480 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,119 Speaker 1: go outside and do something. So for proper women to 481 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: be told playing the dirt was okay as long as 482 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: they didn't exhaust themselves too much. That was liberating. But 483 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 1: this book to focus their world to flowers, and as 484 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: Society Pages points out, these stereotypes persisted, especially as lawnmowers 485 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: were marketed to men in the eighteen fifties. But between 486 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: Quarantine and the connections we can make through Instagram, new 487 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: communities have sprouted up, and there's so many different ways 488 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: to picture your pursuits. In previous episodes, we've talked about 489 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: black gardening communities. We've seen the world where sneaker heads 490 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: and plants collide, and we've heard people label themselves plant 491 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: parents and members of plant parenthood. While the plant Daddy's 492 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: movement was born from the LGBTQ community, men of all 493 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:23,120 Speaker 1: sexual preferences and identities have come to embrace their status 494 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: as plant parents and we are excited to talk about 495 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: it too. I sent my producer Molly out to talk 496 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: to men from all across the US who love their plants, 497 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: from flower beds to jade plants. They shared their thoughts 498 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 1: around plant care and masculinity. I'm Bob Hershawn, and I 499 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: like plants, you know. When you you touched on the 500 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and gardening, that just reminded me. Leo Tolstoy, 501 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: the novelist. He was born in aristocrat, all the money 502 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: he could ever need. He had peasants, hundreds of them, 503 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: taking care of the outdoors. But it was very important 504 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: to him to go outside and prove that he knew 505 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:06,920 Speaker 1: how to use a shovel, and he could use a plow, 506 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: and he could use a syfe, and that showed that 507 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: he was a real man. He was really masculine, you know. 508 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: To be a real guy, you know, you have to 509 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: go out and make stuff grow. And that whole idea 510 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: caught on and I think that we're kind of stuck 511 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: because of that. And I think that we do have 512 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: a lot of men that live that act badly and 513 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: think of masculinity as being a big dufas, or at 514 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: least because they are males, they have license to be 515 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: a big dufis. And I think that's terrible and negative. 516 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 1: And I see signs that we're getting away from that, 517 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: and I hope that's true. E J. Horne. I'm located 518 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: in Bursailles, Kentucky. I grew up on a farm. We 519 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: had bulldozers and sawmills and tractors and escalators and everything 520 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: driven cold juts. I mean, I can say, you know, 521 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: I'm masking, is your job or whatever, But the process 522 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: of creation and this, the process of watching things flowers 523 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: is really neat. It's a miracle, I mean it really is. 524 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: And to bring those into the house and to not 525 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: beautiful the house and let's see other people get to 526 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: enjoy those things, or that's just a good thing. My 527 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: name is Douglas Waterbury Team and I'm currently living in Franklin, 528 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 1: Tennessee with my wife. I do believe that flowers can 529 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: be masculine. I suppose the most important thing is that 530 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: there's the human response to them, not the gendered response 531 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: to them. You know, as humans, we are attracted to beauty, 532 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: and flowers are undeniably and unmistakably beautiful. My name is 533 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,320 Speaker 1: Joel Arnold, and I grew up in Michigan, where I 534 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: really liked gardening, and I now live in Los Angeles 535 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: where I don't have a garden, but I do take 536 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 1: care of a few house plants for the guy who's 537 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:00,479 Speaker 1: like very skeptical of plant care. If there are wanting 538 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: to like attractive partner, it shows like that they can 539 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: care and that they have some kind of responsibility to 540 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: them if they have house plants that they're actively caring for, 541 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: like in their space. I feel like showing that you 542 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,560 Speaker 1: can take care of your space having it clean, like 543 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: that's one thing. Another level would be like plant care, 544 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: like that's that's very attractive. I feel like. My name 545 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: is Jake Calasini. I live in Brooklyn, New York. When 546 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: it comes down to it, they're just like nice to 547 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: look at, you know, putting care into them, you know, 548 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: you get you get something back. I think I just 549 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: enjoyed growing things and being able to transform space into 550 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: a space that is nice to walk in. That is 551 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: nice to sit in to contemplate, you know, have people 552 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: over and and allow them the space and the time 553 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: to do the same. My name is Ramsey Junt. I 554 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: live in Atlanta, Georgia. It's the same nurturing you give 555 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: to anyone, and in particular for me, and like with 556 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: my partner and as well as with my daughter, try 557 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: to be as nurturing as I can with her. And 558 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: I try to get her excited about things, like I 559 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,280 Speaker 1: try to keep her involved with what's growing out in 560 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: the garden if she's having a bad day, just to 561 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: get her mind off as like, hey, the peach trees blossoming. 562 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: That was pretty huge for her because she she loves peaches. 563 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: And just seeing her demeanor change into happiness, it's makes 564 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 1: me happy as a father to see that. My love 565 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: for flowers and my love for gardening always came from 566 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: my dad. My name is Ben Polson. I live in Philadelphia. 567 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: I've been living here for about eighteen months. You can't 568 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: care for a plant without understanding it in a way 569 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,479 Speaker 1: that I think men don't do very often. And you know, 570 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 1: and you've got to listen to the plant, and that's 571 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: always a healthy thing to do. You've got to care 572 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: for it in a way that I think is sometimes 573 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: quite unmasculine. But they's definitely got the power to change 574 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: the conversation to you know, the kind of show men 575 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: a different way of dealing with things or with living 576 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: things around them. I don't feel at all qualified to 577 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: to define modern masculinity outside of my own bounds, which 578 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: I hope is fair. I'm sure many a male gardener 579 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: has man splained fertilization to a woman gardener that knows 580 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: a lot more about it than they do. But I 581 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: think gardening has a lot of opportunity, and you know, 582 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: it's an opportunity for humility as well. You're trying to 583 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: control nature here and I don't know why my com 584 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: quote tree suddenly sprouted thorns, and I don't know why 585 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: my olive tree just uped and died. And I think, 586 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: you know, accepting that you don't know a lot of 587 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: things is really challenging to men that are supposed to 588 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: know things all the time. And I think that's another 589 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: good aspect that gardening keeps you humble. So from my perspective, yeah, 590 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: I think masculinity needs to be a bit moll for 591 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: about three years to make up for the past a 592 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: few thousand. But once we do that, I'm sure we 593 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: can we could all make comment and if plants can 594 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: help us do that, that would be a beautiful thing. Indeed, 595 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,360 Speaker 1: I could think a lot lately about flowers. At some 596 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: point over time, flowers became this symbol of femininity, which 597 00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: is always strange to me, because flowers themselves have a sex, 598 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: and some are actually male, but most flowers are actually bisexual, 599 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: meaning they have both male and female reproductive parts. So 600 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: even this thing that we've gendered as feminine doesn't adhere 601 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: to these constructs. So why should we let ourselves believe 602 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 1: that flowers and gardening are also gendered. Men are not 603 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,480 Speaker 1: a monolith, and masculinity does not have to have just 604 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: one definition, and neither does gardening for that matter. I 605 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: know I've taught about my family a lot on this show, 606 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: and my grandfather, the engineer, It was just this incredible 607 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: male figure for me as a kid, this role model, 608 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: and I keep learning more and more about him to 609 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: this day. His interests had no boundaries. I've mentioned he 610 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: started an ice cream factory, he had farms, He built 611 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: incredible things from scratch. He was a writer, but he 612 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: also loved roses. He bred them, and he brought in 613 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: all these rare seeds and cultivated rare flowers that people 614 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,240 Speaker 1: would come to watch bloom. He also had three types 615 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: of jasmine in his yard, including one that bloomed and 616 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 1: perfumed only at night. The scent used to calm him, 617 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: and it's actually what inspired me as I started to 618 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,640 Speaker 1: look into my backyard and start planning for the future. 619 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: We have this idea that such delicate aspects of nature 620 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: can't be masculine, but there's no reason for it. In 621 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 1: the same way we've seen in femininity exudes strength and power, 622 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,840 Speaker 1: it's encouraging to see a wider masculinity that can convey 623 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: softness and beauty. I find comfort in watching the next 624 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,880 Speaker 1: generation post online, unashamed of their passions and interests, and 625 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: sharing how they can live in more than one lane. 626 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:23,200 Speaker 1: It tells me that we're heading towards a more accepting 627 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: and promising future because at the end of the day, 628 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: the carrots and the hyacinth they don't care about how 629 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: much testosterone or estrogen you have. And like all things, 630 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: the gardening community only gets better with new ideas and 631 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: different perspectives male, female, non binary. Because to the world 632 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:52,240 Speaker 1: out there waiting in your backyard, we're all just humans 633 00:36:53,320 --> 00:37:00,040 Speaker 1: growing stuff. That's it for today's episode. Don't forget it. 634 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: No matter what season it is or where you're at 635 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: in your gardening journey, there's some incredible resources waiting for 636 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,640 Speaker 1: you on the Miracle Grow website. Next time on our show, 637 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about regenerative farming practices, stuff you can 638 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: bring into your backyard. If you like what you heard, 639 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,240 Speaker 1: don't forget to rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts. Also, 640 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. What are your inspiring 641 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: plant stories, relatable struggles or growing questions. Tag us in 642 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: your post or tweet using the hashtag Humans Growing Stuff, 643 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: and don't be surprised if you hear your story featured 644 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,839 Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode. Humans Growing Stuff is a collaboration 645 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: from My Heart Radio and your friends at Miracle Grow. 646 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: Our show is written and produced by Molly Sosha and 647 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: me Mongy Chatiguler in partnership with Ryanovadia, Daniel Ainsworth, Haley Ericsson, 648 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 1: and Garrett Shannon of Banter. Until next time, Thanks so 649 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: much for listening.