Speaker 1: Misspelling with Tory Spelling and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Podcast Emily mean, yes, are you a masochist?
Speaker 3: Ooh good question.
Speaker 4: I'm obviously a masochist because I continuously put myself in painful,
Speaker 4: painful situations over and over, so like I must be emotionally.
Speaker 2: I'm asking you because this is like hitting me on
Speaker 2: a personal level as well. Do you think that is masochism?
Speaker 2: Emotional or like family trauma that's not dealt with this?
Speaker 4: The second one, you're right, Wow, you're Are you a
Speaker 4: little psychic?
Speaker 3: I think, yeah? Are you?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're very I'm very cures sat out the book
Speaker 4: you were showing on Instagram. Oh there you go? Yeah, okay,
Speaker 4: yeah I am. Yes, I'm trying to deal with that
Speaker 4: because I actually think my lack of control over it
Speaker 4: is fucking with my life. But yes, I think it
Speaker 4: is the trauma and the pain being familiar more than it.
Speaker 4: Maybe that's why I'm zero massacre because I feel like
Speaker 4: people who are massacrests like maybe they don't didn't have
Speaker 4: that much pain, and so like pain is exciting and
Speaker 4: they need to create it For me. I'm like, I
Speaker 4: don't I have a well of pain just waiting at
Speaker 4: any given moment, I don't need to like be whatever,
Speaker 4: hit at whatever, whatever it.
Speaker 2: Is, right, No, no, no, I agree, I don't. I
Speaker 2: feel like on from my perspective, for me, it's not
Speaker 2: as obvious from the outside. Maybe emotional trauma. I don't
Speaker 2: know if it goes back to just the world I
Speaker 2: was born into more than just like actual from my family,
Speaker 2: being born in Hollywood and just like that everything focused
Speaker 2: so hyper focused since I was born, and not having
Speaker 2: that lack of control of how to even go back
Speaker 2: and fix that. But you started this business so young,
Speaker 2: you have that as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, idea, I wasn't born.
Speaker 4: The trauma of being born in I imagine is like
Speaker 4: a whole world that I do not envy as much
Speaker 4: as people are assholes about it and think it's enviable.
Speaker 4: I imagine it is more not than it is. Even
Speaker 4: if there's like perks, I feel like those perks come
Speaker 4: at a cost.
Speaker 3: But yes, I.
Speaker 4: Started young, and I didn't think I started young. I
Speaker 4: started at eighteen, and I thought I was like, Wow,
Speaker 4: it's porty too late. Now I'm like, what a.
Speaker 3: Little baby like you should have waited, you should have
Speaker 3: protected yourself longer. I thought you started younger. Why did
Speaker 3: I think you started like twelve thirteen.
Speaker 4: Everybody thinks, Okay, I did a weird Italian singing contest
Speaker 4: and that exists on the internet, so people are like, oh,
Speaker 4: and then I did. I like started modeling at fifteen,
Speaker 4: and I did one weird indie movie then, and I
Speaker 4: wanted to like performing our high school. But I didn't
Speaker 4: like get an agent and start auditioning as an actor until.
Speaker 3: I was eighteen. Okay, still a baby, tiny baby. I
Speaker 3: didn't realize at the time, but yes.
Speaker 2: My oldest child is eighteen and my second oldest is
Speaker 2: a daughter, so I'm like hyper focused on her because
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, me at eighteen it was
Speaker 2: just such a different world. But it's like they're such babies,
Speaker 2: and I never thought of it that way. Like when
Speaker 2: we were working so young, it was like just.
Speaker 4: You saw you were an adult, and you know that
Speaker 4: feeling when you're eighteen amongst adults and you really think
Speaker 4: you're tricking everyone into thinking you're there.
Speaker 2: Eight You're like that, yeah, you want so badly to
Speaker 2: fit in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, I excelted. Yeah, you don't realize that.
Speaker 3: It's it's when.
Speaker 4: You're eighteen it's transparent that you're even if you're like
Speaker 4: the smartest, why is this eighteen year old You simply
Speaker 4: have not experienced enough life to know certain things.
Speaker 2: And I feel like you give in to so much
Speaker 2: more to want to have that acceptance. At least that
Speaker 2: was my experience just and I mean you've talked a
Speaker 2: lot about this obviously, and such an advocate for women
Speaker 2: and on set, but you know, being eighteen and the
Speaker 2: boys were all joking around, I wanted to be fitting
Speaker 2: so bad and I was like, you know, and they
Speaker 2: weren't doing anything wrong, but on a set primarily filled
Speaker 2: with men back then in the nineties, it was like
Speaker 2: I just thought my inn.
Speaker 3: Was always like what was I wearing? How did I look?
Speaker 2: Was my you know? Oh everyone said my like my
Speaker 2: waist was so tiny, like oh yay, why didn't they
Speaker 2: look at my boobs today? Like it was just like
Speaker 2: over and over. You're so conditioned to think like that's
Speaker 2: the acceptance and it wasn't. I'm just going back to
Speaker 2: our eighteen year old self. So sorry, I'm not sweeting
Speaker 2: on your behat here, but no.
Speaker 3: No, I agree. It all resonates.
Speaker 2: I look back now and I'm like, oh, I'm just
Speaker 2: finding and obviously I'm way older than you, but I'm
Speaker 2: just learning to be like, wait, I'm actually really smart.
Speaker 2: There's value there. I'm funny, I'm smart, Like you know,
Speaker 2: there's the physical, but it's just it's more than that.
Speaker 2: And I never understood that then that that was useful.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's so funny because I was obviously in gearing
Speaker 4: up for this, I was thinking about you, and I
Speaker 4: was thinking about like when I met you, how I
Speaker 4: described you, and I was like, she's actually really funny
Speaker 4: and smart. I swear to God, and I'm sure you
Speaker 4: like me. That's not the first assumption about you. For me,
Speaker 4: it's less. I think people are more surprised that I'm
Speaker 4: like nice and smart, like I think people think I'm
Speaker 4: mean and obviously stupid, but stupid in like at and
Speaker 4: more like an aloof way, like you're more blondes, maybe
Speaker 4: get more like a great. Mine's more like I don't
Speaker 4: speak English. But yes, and for me as well, the
Speaker 4: discovery of that I'm smart but a was a big husband,
Speaker 4: or that I have value outside of not just beauty
Speaker 4: but talent, like just as a human being, having nothing
Speaker 4: to do with that this industry and what I have
Speaker 4: to offer. It has been important life saving, really.
Speaker 2: Understood and for the listeners. We met Emily and I
Speaker 2: met on the set of Mother May Sleep with Danger.
Speaker 3: Second rendition of it, You've the Champion.
Speaker 2: Rendition, which the og one was in the nineties, and
Speaker 2: I played the daughter stocked in college by her lover
Speaker 2: and like her mom saves her and it was a
Speaker 2: big Lifetime. It became like a cult classic, and I
Speaker 2: think primarily because of the title. And then I got
Speaker 2: the call literally one day. I can't unhear it. It
Speaker 2: was the craziest call of my life. I was driving
Speaker 2: to set and I got a call from my agent
Speaker 2: and she was like, we have an offer for you
Speaker 2: and Lifetime and James Franco are remaking Mother May Sleep
Speaker 2: with Danger and he is reimagining it. And I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: you just said Lifetime. You just said James Franco. And
Speaker 2: then she's like, and wait, it's going to be a
Speaker 2: vampire lesbian movie.
Speaker 3: And I was like, there's just like.
Speaker 2: A long pause and my brain was trying to like
Speaker 2: grasp all of the things she just said. And then
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I'm in, Like, I mean, you
Speaker 2: can't turn that down.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's how I felt. I was told to
Speaker 4: turn it down. But you guys don't get it, clearly
Speaker 4: don't get it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because I feel like, at least for me,
Speaker 2: we never really have talked about that experience. We actually after.
Speaker 2: I mean, you filmed a lot more than I did,
Speaker 2: but I just played the mom But I felt like
Speaker 2: we didn't connect to like the very end. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then I felt the same way about you. I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I feel like we have the same
Speaker 2: dark humor. Like I feel like we get each other.
Speaker 2: And I was like, we.
Speaker 3: Have to keep in touch.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I probably had the same thing coming onto
Speaker 2: that set.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: I was scared of everybody coming onto that set because
Speaker 2: it was such like I just felt like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: James Franco is making this movie, Like do I even
Speaker 2: belong here?
Speaker 3: What does he think of me? What is it?
Speaker 2: There was so much going on in my head and
Speaker 2: you and Laila were so great and I and yeah,
Speaker 2: I was just like trying to fit in. And but
Speaker 2: I probably was scared of you at first too. I
Speaker 2: mean you were playing the vampire at last week.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's scared.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you're like a larger than life. Yeah, I'm sure
Speaker 4: a lot of people don't even think of you as
Speaker 4: like a human because you're such an me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I'm scared to work with you.
Speaker 3: That's always how it works.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, of course, Like I would never think
Speaker 4: that about me. But you're like, not you're a You're
Speaker 4: you've become beyond human kind of, you're like immortal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you're a compliment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a comment, but I also say it with
Speaker 4: like empathy for like that's probably horrible, you know, like
Speaker 4: that people are not fully seeing you as a human,
Speaker 4: which is why it's so cool to get to connect
Speaker 4: with someone who's like a symbol at this point sort
Speaker 4: of and then you're like, oh yeah, the human and
Speaker 4: that's always really nice. And I think we all need
Speaker 4: that when people like don't see us fully. I think
Speaker 4: any actor, any performer is like ultimately, that's why people
Speaker 4: can like, you know, say discusting things about us to
Speaker 4: us whatever on the email, because it's like it's not
Speaker 4: a human, right and we're supposed to just take it
Speaker 4: and just yeah, I mean people, it's just you're not
Speaker 4: a human. Like I almost I can separate myself in
Speaker 4: the way of like you're not seeing me as if
Speaker 4: I came into your living room.
Speaker 3: It's I don't you do remember the movie nodding Hill?
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like when Julie they hear like the guys
Speaker 4: being like.
Speaker 3: And she goes over. It's like, I bet your.
Speaker 4: Dicks are tiny, like you know, like that's true like
Speaker 4: people and they freak out. It's like, yeah, we're one
Speaker 4: dimensional to people until we're in their presence.
Speaker 3: Oh my, that's a T shirt. I'm not one dimensional.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no for sure. And so you came on sorry
Speaker 4: kind of segue.
Speaker 3: You never know air.
Speaker 2: No, no, I do. I go every which way. That's
Speaker 2: how my brain works too, and then I'll come back
Speaker 2: to where Yeah, that's so inches Sorry okay, So yes,
Speaker 2: so we met on that movie. Wait, how did that
Speaker 2: movie come about? Had you already done the Deuce?
Speaker 4: Yes, it was it was between the first and maybe
Speaker 4: it's between the pilot and the first season.
Speaker 3: Because we had that's right, that's what he told me.
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, I met James through and I didn't even
Speaker 4: get a call.
Speaker 3: I just got anyone.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm sure many people have emails like this
Speaker 4: from James Franco of just like in the subject high
Speaker 4: it's James, and then like one sentence of like this,
Speaker 4: I want you to be in this movie you play Pearl,
Speaker 4: Like that's it.
Speaker 3: Really?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like that, and then I sent it
Speaker 4: to my like but yes, it was. We had done
Speaker 4: the pilot of the Juice at that point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so you get that email. How do you
Speaker 2: say no.
Speaker 3: Like did you eat? What do you say? Could you
Speaker 3: even read a script? Or you're like.
Speaker 4: No, I mean I obviously on paper there was plenty
Speaker 4: of reasons jes say no.
Speaker 2: Wait in the email, did he tell you the concept?
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it was not like the way he writes
Speaker 4: these emails are it's very rudimentary. It's like very He's
Speaker 4: not He's an intelligent per but it's a little bit
Speaker 4: elementary school level. It's just that it's like this is
Speaker 4: what I think you know, Like so it was like
Speaker 4: it's a lesbian vampire. I don't There was no like
Speaker 4: awareness of like the irony or the subversion of it.
Speaker 3: It was just like very simple facts. Got it.
Speaker 4: I've read it, and my agents at the time were like, you,
Speaker 4: obviously this is a path and I was like, actually
Speaker 4: to me, yeah, I mean I think that's another thing.
Speaker 4: That it's different if you're actually in it versus watching it.
Speaker 4: It's like this industry is so horrifying in so many ways,
Speaker 4: and there's so much bullshit and all the things people
Speaker 4: think is art, there's like still so much evil in
Speaker 4: manipulation behind. So it's like, yeah, I want to do
Speaker 4: something that's like actively bad, like actively fuck you to
Speaker 4: like what is supposed to be art and good and
Speaker 4: like that's a bucket like to be in a lifetime movie.
Speaker 4: It's so over the top, it's so ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to me, it was a must. To them, it
Speaker 3: was like are you okay right? Of course no.
Speaker 2: I I remember my agents were like okay. I'm like
Speaker 2: obviously it's an end for me, but like I'm gonna
Speaker 2: say yes. And they're like, well, you know, James just
Speaker 2: wants to do a call with you and like just
Speaker 2: talk to you about it.
Speaker 3: And I was like okay, So I like tried.
Speaker 2: He was like on set or something I had like
Speaker 2: and they were like, you know, when he can do it,
Speaker 2: they were like, he has a free moment. I was
Speaker 2: like hiding from my kids in my closet. I'm like okay,
Speaker 2: And I talked to him and I was like such
Speaker 2: a fan. I was trying to be like super cool,
Speaker 2: and he was like, you know the Will Ferrell movie,
Speaker 2: you know, the Lifetime it's supposed to be overtly like
Speaker 2: and yeah, he gave me like the few senses and
Speaker 2: I was just like, oh, yeah that sounds It was
Speaker 2: obviously a yes, but I was like, yeah, that.
Speaker 3: Sounds really cool.
Speaker 2: But I was like I got the vision and I
Speaker 2: got like what it should be. I still don't know
Speaker 2: if Lifetime viewers got it.
Speaker 3: I don't imagine did it do well. I'm like, like,
Speaker 3: I don't feel like.
Speaker 2: It didn't do well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were like what is this?
Speaker 4: Yeah it was I I've never really I've heard like
Speaker 4: a few, like I've gotten a few messages or whatever
Speaker 4: about it, but yeah, I don't I don't know if
Speaker 4: it was clear. It's also I mean, when you watch it,
Speaker 4: like it could be like fifteen minutes long instead of
Speaker 4: a full movie, Like it's sort of just like a
Speaker 4: music video over and over of like vampires Walking, which
Speaker 4: is funny and great, but like I could want to
Speaker 4: watch the whole thing necessarily.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, in my opinion as a fan
Speaker 2: and viewer, it didn't push it far enough to be
Speaker 2: that kind of absurdity that you're like, waity, and I
Speaker 2: think that's part now when you were filming it, at least,
Speaker 2: this is what they told me, that they were doing
Speaker 2: two versions, two cuts, because they were going to air it. No, sorry,
Speaker 2: there was a lifetime version and then a version they
Speaker 2: were going to put in the theaters.
Speaker 4: I don't even remember. It's possible they said that, but
Speaker 4: like I've been lied to so much, like I don't
Speaker 4: even I'm like, yeah, maybe, I don't remember.
Speaker 3: So they were doing like a more edgy like they
Speaker 3: were gonna do.
Speaker 2: An edgy this is I was like, this is gonna
Speaker 2: go to theater, okay, but I was like, okay, I'm
Speaker 2: with you. It's James Franco, Like, you know, you can
Speaker 2: get a theatrical release obviously. Yeah, it was gonna be
Speaker 2: edgier and push the limits. And I don't know if
Speaker 2: that involved dialogue or nudity, Like there was definitely scenes
Speaker 2: that they I was told they were shooting two versions.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Interesting, maybe, I mean, at no point did we show
Speaker 4: are like a boobs or anything. I thought the sex
Speaker 4: scene I remember, because yeah, the sex scene between Leila
Speaker 4: and I that on lifetime.
Speaker 3: I thought was like it was like because.
Speaker 4: It's like embarrassing long and this, and there's like there's
Speaker 4: something about the detail of me, like moving my hand
Speaker 4: in a certain way.
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's so embarrassing. So to me, it was
Speaker 3: pretty an intent.
Speaker 4: Different like yeah, and I don't, I don't. We had
Speaker 4: like the things on our nipples the whole time, like,
Speaker 4: so I don't. I don't remember shooting it. I just
Speaker 4: remember shooting it like a sex scene.
Speaker 3: And then it seemed it's epically long.
Speaker 2: I feel like that's it's really long. Yeah, I wonder
Speaker 2: if they've changed it since the original airing, if they ever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I probably only saw it that time.
Speaker 2: And was there an intimacy coach then?
Speaker 3: No? Right before that was before?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So do you feel like if you had
Speaker 2: to go back and they obviously everyone gets an intimacy
Speaker 2: coach now, would you have asked for one on that movie?
Speaker 3: I would have asked for one. I mean that's why
Speaker 3: anything we've ever did what.
Speaker 4: I did with it of making it things, because it's
Speaker 4: it wasn't until me too, that I even realized how
Speaker 4: how it has been for all of us. And but
Speaker 4: so yeah, all of all of my experiences leading up
Speaker 4: to my position with intimacy coordinators, I should have had
Speaker 4: an intimacy coordinator. And yeah, my first sex scene before eighteen,
Speaker 4: when I was modeling I did movie. My first sex
Speaker 4: ever was at sixteen, and even that it was like
Speaker 4: the guy just had a sock on his dick, like
Speaker 4: there was and it was like it was a rape
Speaker 4: scene too, which is an interesting way to like start.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I I've had sex scenes that weren't like
Speaker 4: nothing bad happened, but I think there should have a Yeah,
Speaker 4: there was, there were ones where bad things happened, and
Speaker 4: just in general, like there was nothing bad in the
Speaker 4: Leyla and I seem per se, but it was It's
Speaker 4: still like a lot and you can't objectively see, you
Speaker 4: can't objectively really make decisions while you're in that space.
Speaker 2: I haven't done a sex scene in so long, I
Speaker 2: don't even remember.
Speaker 3: Do you wish you had had intimacy coordinators? No?
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Well, a lot of women are pretty mad about it.
Speaker 3: A lot of people think I have a title tale.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, no, no, yeah, yeah, I mean I don't feel
Speaker 2: like any in my experience alone, anything has gone too far.
Speaker 3: There was some.
Speaker 2: I was more comfortable with certain people than others, and
Speaker 2: I guess for that reason, yeah, I'd want.
Speaker 3: It to be less.
Speaker 2: Do you ever feel now that, I mean, you've spoken
Speaker 2: up so much about it and I have been such
Speaker 2: an advocate. Now moving forward with your career, does it
Speaker 2: somehow take you out of the scene when you're in
Speaker 2: it having someone there or do.
Speaker 3: You feel well?
Speaker 4: The fucked up part is I think it fucked with
Speaker 4: my career to the point I have not worked with
Speaker 4: an intimacy coordinator since.
Speaker 2: Really, yeah, yeah, I definitely.
Speaker 3: Think it did. It did some damage.
Speaker 4: I don't regret it, but it's I've worked the least
Speaker 4: I have in my entire career since that, to the
Speaker 4: point that I have not. I have not worked with
Speaker 4: an intimacy coordinator since creating co Create whatever the intimacy coordinator.
Speaker 3: So I don't know. I don't know what it would
Speaker 3: be like. I know that's not true.
Speaker 4: Alicia Rhodis, who was the first ever intimacy coordinator who
Speaker 4: we worked with on The Juice, I did work with
Speaker 4: her one more time recently on the Penguin because I
Speaker 4: was the mother and there was kids and I'm like
Speaker 4: cuddling them and like, right, so I was.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: One they were watching.
Speaker 4: Exactly so that but that didn't really count because it
Speaker 4: was not a sexual scene. And obviously when she asked
Speaker 4: them if they were comfortable, they were twelve year old,
Speaker 4: but they were like yeah, it wasn't really a complicated situation.
Speaker 4: Although I still am always afraid of like accidentally traumatizing
Speaker 4: a child, but it was pretty it was pretty changing
Speaker 4: the cuddles.
Speaker 2: Any child in this business is going to be traumatized.
Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, I just don't want to be a part
Speaker 3: of I don't want to be abide him. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I am a huge fan of your Instagram, which sounds
Speaker 2: creepy but it's not. And I often find myself thinking like, well,
Speaker 2: if I didn't know her personally, like would I be
Speaker 2: as engrossed with your Instagram? And the answer is yes,
Speaker 2: a thousand percent like I And I mean, I know
Speaker 2: it's not all like rainbows and unicorns, like I feel
Speaker 2: like you're very raw and vulnerable in your Instagram. I'm
Speaker 2: sure you get you right. The haters like you know,
Speaker 2: I understand, but from my perspective, I appreciate it. I
Speaker 2: think I just really like and get your personality. So
Speaker 2: I'm there for the highs and the lows and not
Speaker 2: in a bad way, just like appreciating it. But okay,
Speaker 2: speaking of your Instagram, so I want to talk about
Speaker 2: your psychic ability because that really grabbed me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're definitely psychic. I could already tell, but I intuitive,
Speaker 3: what's the difference. I don't think there is a difference. Okay,
Speaker 3: it's yeah.
Speaker 4: I think it's I mean, reading that book and the
Speaker 4: more you explore, because I mean, I've always felt like
Speaker 4: that to some degree, but you obviously don't know what
Speaker 4: that means. I mean, I remember when I was like
Speaker 4: five or something like, preparing to like essentially, it felt
Speaker 4: like I was like coming out to my muster as like, Mom,
Speaker 4: I have to tell you something like I think I'm magic,
Speaker 4: like I don't. I don't think I'm a human. I
Speaker 4: think I'm magic, and I don't. She didn't like to
Speaker 4: send me a Harry Potter's Glory, saying it was very
Speaker 4: like I think I expected a much bigger reaction of like, Okay,
Speaker 4: we're gonna have to do something about this. But so
Speaker 4: my whole life I kind of had that feeling and
Speaker 4: then it gets really like bastardized and turns into just
Speaker 4: being like sensitive and overwhelmed by everything, but looking into
Speaker 4: it more and well, yeah, how it kind of came
Speaker 4: back to me is like I'm obsessed with any sort
Speaker 4: of occult magic and I've gone to several psychics and
Speaker 4: all that, and they always and they're always like, you
Speaker 4: are very psychic and you need psychic protection. But I've
Speaker 4: been told that I'm like covered in foreign energy, Like
Speaker 4: I'm constantly taking on things and i don't know how
Speaker 4: to like separate it. If you're an EmPATH, yes, which
Speaker 4: is is like from what you're what I'm reading about
Speaker 4: being a psychic is it's it's all the same spectrum.
Speaker 4: It's kind of like just how much you are and
Speaker 4: then you can kind of like you know, there's it's
Speaker 4: intuitive like somewhat psychic media like medium psychic, and then
Speaker 4: like very sick. I'd say I'm like more in the
Speaker 4: medium with like some of the very, but like the
Speaker 4: very is like you can't really function in society basically,
Speaker 4: But I'm learned like EmPATH and psychic they are ultimately
Speaker 4: the same thing because all you're doing is like picking
Speaker 4: up on energies and some of those are can be
Speaker 4: like future, but it's it's just how much you're actually
Speaker 4: focusing it. But yes, when I was a kid, like
Speaker 4: I couldn't even go on the subway because I or
Speaker 4: I did, I had to, but I'd be crying because
Speaker 4: I'd be like that man, sad like I was so
Speaker 4: overwhelmed by people's feelings and that's ultimately psychic.
Speaker 3: Miss from what I'm reading.
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Speaker 3: Okay, so many questions.
Speaker 2: Okay, but I feel like the word psychic were literally
Speaker 2: especially women crucified for it. No pun intended.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, psychic, so you're witchy and you're like
Speaker 3: into all culton.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, and it is more about feelings and
Speaker 2: emotions and yeah, I have the same thing, and it's
Speaker 2: a really challenge. I don't know, it's not the chickery
Speaker 2: of yours, probably, but look at me. That's me apologizing
Speaker 2: because I'm like, I said something about myself and it's
Speaker 2: like I'm not worthy, so I had to like deflect
Speaker 2: and be like it's not as good as yours.
Speaker 4: It's also to feminie it's like not being in the
Speaker 4: boy Like you can't say you're a psychic in the
Speaker 4: boys club.
Speaker 3: That's like they're gonna like it's so on. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I have a really hard time letting go
Speaker 2: of other people's energy to the point like it's it
Speaker 2: affects everything because immediately and it's not like when we
Speaker 2: talk about this to people, we're not saying like or
Speaker 2: maybe you do. I don't know you can look at
Speaker 2: someone feel something and know what's going on with their life.
Speaker 3: I don't know that, but I.
Speaker 2: Totally know if they're sad, if there something's going on
Speaker 2: that they're like no, how did you know?
Speaker 3: And it's like, oh, terrible, I can't get rid of
Speaker 3: the energy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, really bad when you're in a relationship with an
Speaker 4: avoidant and you can feel their feelings and they're denying
Speaker 4: them and they don't like it when you say I
Speaker 4: feel this that that's where it's the worst. But yes,
Speaker 4: in general, it's it's really really hard for me to
Speaker 4: function sometimes because of that. Yes, or even like I
Speaker 4: don't know if you've found this, but I learned for myself,
Speaker 4: like relationship, like when I'm close with people, but then
Speaker 4: like days where I like where it's like a lot
Speaker 4: of extra background actors on a seat. I didn't understand
Speaker 4: until very recently why like I would want to go
Speaker 4: home and like cry and feet like it would fuck
Speaker 4: me up so much, And it's like yeah, because you're
Speaker 4: surrounded by sometimes hundreds of people and they all have
Speaker 4: their own stuff, and also often it is like a
Speaker 4: sort of eager or like there can be like an
Speaker 4: energy to that that's a little, can be sad, can
Speaker 4: be intense. Like the reason people are showing up there
Speaker 4: is like because they're chasing a dream and it's usually
Speaker 4: it's not like a chill energy like intense energy. So
Speaker 4: things like that are or even just like going a set,
Speaker 4: there's so much socializing too. There's so much like you're
Speaker 4: having to talk to people all day and like you
Speaker 4: don't really have much control when people are coming and
Speaker 4: they're touching you in there and you're constantly like getting
Speaker 4: their energy.
Speaker 3: It's like my daily trips target. Yeah, oh god, yeah,
Speaker 3: Although I do like Target I too.
Speaker 4: I like it because I can leave, like when you're
Speaker 4: on a set, you don't have the ability to leave,
Speaker 4: Like I like airports. I like I like places with
Speaker 4: like a lot of different types of people.
Speaker 3: But so do you think you like humans? I think
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 4: I think I think I'm definitely fascinated by humans, and
Speaker 4: I think like it's interesting because I always, you know,
Speaker 4: I feel like being judgmental is like a big conversation
Speaker 4: with people of like, you know, the people who are
Speaker 4: like I'm not judgmental, and to me, I'm always like
Speaker 4: those are the ones that are more judgment because to me,
Speaker 4: it's like, yeah, I am judgmental, Like I look at
Speaker 4: things and I judge it and I use critical thinking.
Speaker 4: But that's because like beneath that, I can have love
Speaker 4: and forgiveness for like everything and everyone, but I need
Speaker 4: in order to have that, I need to like really
Speaker 4: look at it. And so to me, I'm always driven
Speaker 4: crazy by people who are like.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I don't know who knows what their life
Speaker 3: is like, I don't judge. I'm like, it's mine trying
Speaker 3: so hard with that motto. It's so difficult. I don't see.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 4: I'm like, it's okay to think about it and to
Speaker 4: like have feelings about and have opinions about it, as
Speaker 4: long as what you come through to on the other
Speaker 4: end is like and they're human and they're they were
Speaker 4: once a little baby who got her or whatever, and
Speaker 4: like it's okay that they're evil or whatever.
Speaker 3: No one's I don't. I think there's very few people
Speaker 3: that are either are actually evil.
Speaker 2: Do you believe in karma them?
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I do do.
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: I just I don't think it's like one to one.
Speaker 2: I feel like in our industry. I've seen a lot
Speaker 2: of yeah things that I'm like, how are those people?
Speaker 2: And I gotta tell you, I used to think it
Speaker 2: was more like, oh, the male driven ones that I
Speaker 2: was like, oh, how are they still working? They're not great?
Speaker 2: But now as I'm getting older, I'm looking back through
Speaker 2: and I'm like, it's the females a lot of the time,
Speaker 2: which is we're always taught sisterhood and women have each
Speaker 2: other's backs. I don't know if I believe that anymore.
Speaker 2: I think we can, but you know what, women and
Speaker 2: men can.
Speaker 3: Have each other's backs.
Speaker 2: It's just it's I don't know. I think I've been
Speaker 2: screwed over more by women than men at this point.
Speaker 3: Me too.
Speaker 4: I mean I've been screwed over on more interpersonal levels.
Speaker 4: But obviously we've been all been broken and over and
Speaker 4: over and over.
Speaker 3: Yah.
Speaker 4: But yes, i'd say as far as like my betrayals
Speaker 4: in this industry, it's been women and always women who
Speaker 4: are now currently thriving.
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: My empathy I come down to for that is like, well, yeah,
Speaker 4: we're all bred in this way of like we're all
Speaker 4: fighting for the last crumb as women, and like we're
Speaker 4: all like so it's really hard to have a sisterhood
Speaker 4: everyone because it's like you kind of can't.
Speaker 3: They're not room for enough. There's not room for all
Speaker 3: of us.
Speaker 4: So like innately, there's like a competitive like let me
Speaker 4: be the one to get there, and it's not okay,
Speaker 4: And I don't do it, and that's probably why I'm
Speaker 4: not a movie star because I don't have the to
Speaker 4: do that. But like the people that do, I'm sure
Speaker 4: I hate some of them and I think they're nasty people,
Speaker 4: but I'm like they were whatever. They were raised in
Speaker 4: a world where they felt like they had to fight
Speaker 4: for like the last seat in the room and do
Speaker 4: whatever they had to do to do it. I don't appreciate.
Speaker 4: I think that is very low energy and like low vibration.
Speaker 2: Yeah, is that alpha energy?
Speaker 3: Like what is that?
Speaker 2: Like it's not innately, it's like it's not our DNA.
Speaker 2: I don't think to have that.
Speaker 3: I think it's this.
Speaker 4: I mean, I could go a million places because there's
Speaker 4: something I talked about a lot. I've talked about a
Speaker 4: lot in therapy with alpha and beta. Yeah, I think
Speaker 4: that's beta. I think like you would read to me
Speaker 4: as an alpha, and I think I'm an alpha. But
Speaker 4: I was so quickly beta myself to someone because yes,
Speaker 4: I'm afraid that if I alpha, then I won't have
Speaker 4: any friends, like I don't have anybody or like with men. Actually,
Speaker 4: like if I if I'm fully in my power an alpha,
Speaker 4: like forget, I'll be on an island.
Speaker 3: I feel like.
Speaker 4: So I'm so quick to like act like a sub
Speaker 4: and be like what did here and bait? Yes, And
Speaker 4: it's the betas I think, who like they don't have that.
Speaker 4: It's just like let me go go go like fuck everybody,
Speaker 4: whereas I think when you have the ability, like when
Speaker 4: you know your power, you're more careful with it. And
Speaker 4: then the people don't have as much power. Oh we
Speaker 4: let them overpower us.
Speaker 3: So how are you going to find your power? I'm
Speaker 3: trying to do it now.
Speaker 2: It's really challenging.
Speaker 3: I know, I know.
Speaker 2: And if I hear one more time someone say get
Speaker 2: back to therapy, keep up with your therapy, you know,
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, I'm unworking for me, Yeah, fifty two
Speaker 2: years and then who knows what passing?
Speaker 3: I don't even know. Yeah it's yeah, I know, I
Speaker 3: mean it.
Speaker 2: Doesn't happen that fast, and I mean it's great to
Speaker 2: work on stuff.
Speaker 4: But it's like I know, no, I mean, I'm lifetime
Speaker 4: it's oh yeah.
Speaker 3: Lifetime movie.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't even think of that. Yes, yeah, it
Speaker 2: is like probably lifetimes.
Speaker 3: No, I think it is. I think it is a
Speaker 3: lifetime movie. Yes, yeah, and I think it is more.
Speaker 2: Wait, do we have something here? Create some lifetime movies.
Speaker 4: I'm sure we have many, There's so much here, but yes,
Speaker 4: I think it's like, I mean, I'm obsessed with there.
Speaker 4: I do all the things possible, and when I run
Speaker 4: out of steam and get angry is when I'm like,
Speaker 4: I'm doing all the fucking things possible. How do I
Speaker 4: still not have any of like the things that I want?
Speaker 3: And I don't know.
Speaker 4: All I can think is that I it's like it
Speaker 4: takes longer to build Rome wasn't built in day.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: It's like it's just I don't know or so like
Speaker 4: I think, no matter what, I have found peace or
Speaker 4: joy in wait. Like my therapist said to me recently
Speaker 4: after my most recent breakup, of like, she's like, you're
Speaker 4: essentially a raw nerve. She's like, so, yes, you feel
Speaker 4: a lot more pain and hurt than other people, but
Speaker 4: you also feel a lot more joy, and so like
Speaker 4: that's the trade off, and it's true, like I've seen
Speaker 4: in like I'm someone who can cry hysterically and you'd
Speaker 4: so hurt and angry and then be like hysterically laughing
Speaker 4: that night and like so deeply appreciating the joy of that.
Speaker 3: It's a wild ride.
Speaker 4: But like a lot of like when I look at
Speaker 4: the people who are thriving, like I don't think they're
Speaker 4: necessarily having that much joy.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: It doesn't look like it, it doesn't feel like it.
Speaker 4: And there's certainly I can't imagine they're having peace, which
Speaker 4: are things I value more the older.
Speaker 3: I get peace.
Speaker 2: I don't know that words.
Speaker 3: So you don't have it.
Speaker 4: You don't. You don't feel any sense of peace, not
Speaker 4: like quiet necessarily. It's just like internally, you know what
Speaker 4: you have? You need a psychic book.
Speaker 2: Maybe I should start the book you were reading. Sorry,
Speaker 2: what was the title of it, managing managg Man.
Speaker 4: I like that word psychic, Yeah, well, because that's it's
Speaker 4: not having like yeah, the book really shit talks people
Speaker 4: who are like teaching people to be psychic because they're
Speaker 4: like only it's the same with like the masochist thing.
Speaker 4: They're like only people who aren't psychic like want to
Speaker 4: learn how to be psychic. Like it's about controlling it,
Speaker 4: not about it's about like keeping it at bay.
Speaker 3: Not getting more of it. Who wants more of it?
Speaker 2: When you put that book on Instagram, were people just
Speaker 2: like crazy bad shit?
Speaker 3: Not even I mean it's really yeah, I mean I.
Speaker 2: I was psyched when you did it, but yeah, no, it's.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I will say, like, I've definitely gotten haters and nasty things.
Speaker 4: But for the amount of sort of like provocative things
Speaker 4: I say doc that I don't get, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think people do respond well to honesty for the
Speaker 4: most part. So like sometimes I'll say something that I'm like, oh,
Speaker 4: and then people are like, so glad you said that,
Speaker 4: it's really are I'm like, and of course there's it's
Speaker 4: but it's really more occasional that I get the anger.
Speaker 4: So the psychic thing, no, people either yeah, there's always
Speaker 4: gonna be like nasty, like sexual things.
Speaker 3: Or like.
Speaker 4: Or often people just don't get when I'm being like
Speaker 4: ironic or funny or whatever, you're being cheeky, cheeky, yes,
Speaker 4: because I'm like i'd be embarrassed to post this, and
Speaker 4: people like no, girl, like, don't be a pair of
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, no, I'm posting it right, But no
Speaker 4: people are. Maybe it's because I'm like, I am not
Speaker 4: and I've gone to every second.
Speaker 3: I am not bipolar.
Speaker 4: I don't have any diagnosis, but I once had a
Speaker 4: person like being like I appreciate her Instagram so much.
Speaker 3: I'm bipolar too.
Speaker 4: I think there's something about whatever, like vulnerability or something
Speaker 4: that it like disarms people and they're more accepting of
Speaker 4: whatever weird things I say.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but no no one said anything mean right,
Speaker 3: you're weird. I'm weird. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I used to be so scared of the word weird,
Speaker 2: and now it just really defines so many beautiful things
Speaker 2: about somebody. It makes them so eclectic and well rounded
Speaker 2: in a way. Do you feel like your social honesty
Speaker 2: social meaning social online, not socially, but as that scare
Speaker 2: the industry away at all?
Speaker 4: Do you think, yes, that's the part I think it
Speaker 4: like as far as like the fans or people, I
Speaker 4: think it means a lot. But I think between yeah,
Speaker 4: my work with the intimacy coordinator, my I think the
Speaker 4: industry has never known what to do with me, like ever,
Speaker 4: and I think in the beginning of my career they
Speaker 4: were trying to like make me an age of new
Speaker 4: and I like was not good at that, but then
Speaker 4: I was like convinced that's what I should do. So
Speaker 4: then it felt like a failure not really doing that
Speaker 4: even though it's.
Speaker 3: Never what I actually wanted.
Speaker 4: And then the more like as time is gone, like
Speaker 4: I've always had a good reputatione like, people think I'm
Speaker 4: a good actress. People it's never that, but I just
Speaker 4: don't think they know what to do. And then everything
Speaker 4: with the intimacy coordinator, I think I then I became
Speaker 4: this like goody two shoe tattletale, unfuckable person, and then
Speaker 4: that didn't fucking help anything. And then yeah, my manager
Speaker 4: has said since the beginning, like you're too smart to
Speaker 4: be an actor, Like just even the questions that I
Speaker 4: ask or the opinions I had, not saying actors are stupid,
Speaker 4: but they want actors to be stupid.
Speaker 2: Right, but you're too good not to be an actor.
Speaker 2: You're so fucking talented that it was I think you're
Speaker 2: too good to be just an actor that is just
Speaker 2: cast into something that's my opinion, thank you, you're too talented.
Speaker 3: You need to be creating your own stuff. Yeah, think.
Speaker 4: I mean that's what people have said for a long time,
Speaker 4: and I've was always so resistant.
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 4: I have a me and my friend wrote a script
Speaker 4: recently kind of about like it's you know, very personal
Speaker 4: and meta and about this place in the industry of
Speaker 4: like having had some amount of success but then also
Speaker 4: like not being able to pay rent or whatever it
Speaker 4: is because of and kind of trying to do something
Speaker 4: help like because it almost feels like the healthier I've gotten,
Speaker 4: the less.
Speaker 3: I work, which is really sad and dark.
Speaker 4: But when I was a more like tormented thing, that
Speaker 4: was you know, I played those parts.
Speaker 3: And now that I'm like a kind of stronger, fuller person.
Speaker 4: I work well us I will and I've only worked
Speaker 4: as mothers since as soon as I turned thirty five,
Speaker 4: like literally literally only auditions from others, which I mean, whatever,
Speaker 4: but that's crazy, I know, I know, I feel crazy
Speaker 4: because I'm like, I don't like, I feel like I
Speaker 4: still have a youth. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 4: We'll see how it goes.
Speaker 2: If you look like you're in your twenties, I mean
Speaker 2: it's yeah, it's there's something.
Speaker 3: It's really weird. I don't know, there's something about it.
Speaker 2: Then look what happened with Nicole Kinman's career.
Speaker 4: I know, yeah, which if I can financially hold out,
Speaker 4: then I will.
Speaker 2: I just like climbing that mountain going back down. And
Speaker 2: I mean, you have a way bigger career than me.
Speaker 2: But I'm just as an actor. As an actor, you're like,
Speaker 2: there were actively that maybe not even though lately, but sure, okay,
Speaker 2: start doing reality TV like me.
Speaker 3: I mean, there you go. Maybe, but I don't know.
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Speaker 2: I literally, you know, people all the time are like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, should do this TV show and this,
Speaker 2: and and like I don't think I've had no other
Speaker 2: self tapes or do they go back into the rooms now.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I sed to be terrified of auditioning
Speaker 2: in rooms, but I actually thrived in it. Like that's
Speaker 2: when like I did the best.
Speaker 3: Oh I need the respond Yeah, the.
Speaker 4: Feedback is a former. We're all doing this because we
Speaker 4: want attention and love. Like I just do it with that,
Speaker 4: Like you need that like nod or that smile or
Speaker 4: whatever to be like, oh I'm doing good.
Speaker 3: Self tapes have ruined me.
Speaker 2: And here's the thing. I mean, I don't think i've had.
Speaker 2: I've had like one audition in the last like two years.
Speaker 2: But if it's a self tape, somehow, I will be like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'll get to it, I'll do it now, I'll do
Speaker 2: it then, and then I'll run out of time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like, but if I have to show up and
Speaker 2: be in someone's office and like walk in and do it,
Speaker 2: I'm there, Like, so it's leaving more safe space?
Speaker 3: Is creative mine? I feel like I don't.
Speaker 4: I mean, I have friends who I think are talented
Speaker 4: who like self tapes, so maybe that's shamee, But to me,
Speaker 4: I'm like, it's a different skit, Like it's an entirely
Speaker 4: different skill set.
Speaker 3: And if you're a true like creative, like you can't.
Speaker 4: Be held responsible from like we're children and you have
Speaker 4: to be like told like do this at this time
Speaker 4: in this spot.
Speaker 3: I can't. I can't even wash my dishes.
Speaker 4: I want me to put together a self I do it,
Speaker 4: but it's really hard for me, really.
Speaker 2: Hard when you must have active auditions all the time.
Speaker 3: It's been it's crazy.
Speaker 4: I mean, these past five years it goes like that,
Speaker 4: like this again, it's the least I've worked, and it's
Speaker 4: the least I've auditioned. Granted I'm auditioning for less thing.
Speaker 4: Like you're young, you're auditioning for everything, and then people
Speaker 4: start to decide if you're right or wrong way earlier
Speaker 4: in the process. But no, it's I've gone like this
Speaker 4: year total, I don't have maybe auditioned like ten times,
Speaker 4: which for some.
Speaker 2: People, right, I'm like that sounds great, but no, I know,
Speaker 2: but like you know, I know what you're saying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I used to audition, like I was just in
Speaker 4: LA for three months, and obviously there's no in person,
Speaker 4: Like I used to go to LA and I'd be
Speaker 4: like in an uber because I don't have a driver's license,
Speaker 4: and I'd be like going from Saraonica you live in
Speaker 4: Europe area. Yeah, but it's still I'm thirty six, I
Speaker 4: need a driver license. But yeah, I'd be like in
Speaker 4: traffic all day going like changing my clothes and the
Speaker 4: uber going from auditional audition. Now it'll be months without anything,
Speaker 4: and this is my only source of income, like it's
Speaker 4: my job. Yeah, and then it's self tape, so you
Speaker 4: don't even get feedback half the time or seventy five
Speaker 4: percent of the time. So it's it's like It's it's
Speaker 4: kind of the coolest thing you can do in an actor,
Speaker 4: just like have them perform in a vacuum and then
Speaker 4: just be like ignot pretend that they didn't even exist.
Speaker 3: It's so true.
Speaker 2: Wait what so like, what are your side hustles?
Speaker 3: Don't have a side hustle, which is crazy? Could we
Speaker 3: create one for you?
Speaker 4: I would like, I mean, I've been trying to figure
Speaker 4: that out for years. That's the thing that's like magic
Speaker 4: about my life because I don't come from money I've met.
Speaker 4: I mean, I've never once in my life had anybody, family, lovers,
Speaker 4: anybody like helped me financially in any way. And like,
Speaker 4: I've spent so much of my adult life being on
Speaker 4: the verge of poverty, and yet I've like always managed
Speaker 4: always been okay, Like I was evicted once but not since,
Speaker 4: and I haven't like I haven't been financially secure in
Speaker 4: quite a while, but I also haven't been like eating
Speaker 4: wrong and noodles for every meal in quite a while.
Speaker 4: Like I don't know how I've managed to like not
Speaker 4: be working, not have money, but I still like can
Speaker 4: buy nice face cream, and I'm like and then I
Speaker 4: just somehow I get saved at the last minute, like
Speaker 4: by at least one job or whatever it is. But
Speaker 4: it'd be nice to, yeah, to not need that and
Speaker 4: to feel more secure in that, just like I don't
Speaker 4: I'm not relying on that, but yeah, I don't know
Speaker 4: how I'm somehow protected, but like i'd like to be protected.
Speaker 4: I'd like to be thriving, thriving, so.
Speaker 2: You don't have to worry, Like that shouldn't have to
Speaker 2: be a worry. I understand from you know, we're all
Speaker 2: in different situations, but it's do you do you feel
Speaker 2: like you're I feel like you're I feel like you're
Speaker 2: keeping yourself small.
Speaker 3: I feel like if if you were doing you're like, no,
Speaker 3: I don't want to know. I mean, I don't want that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: But there's.
Speaker 2: Something in the chaos of like I'm just saying this
Speaker 2: out loud because this is I feel ingrained in me
Speaker 2: as well, and I don't know how to get out
Speaker 2: of it. There's something about that chaotic cycle that almost
Speaker 2: keeps us thriving when we're like no, no, no, we don't
Speaker 2: want that. We want this like great thriving so we
Speaker 2: can be more creative and not worry about.
Speaker 3: The stuff that we should be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh no, no I don't yeah, I
Speaker 4: do not want to be in that, And so much
Speaker 4: of it is like, yeah, I guess breaking internal belief.
Speaker 4: Like one of the many psychics and healers I went
Speaker 4: to a few years ago was like, do you feel
Speaker 4: like you don't think you deserve to be right? And
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, I like I have a I'm like
Speaker 4: that's such an ugly thing to want, you know, and
Speaker 4: like there's people starving and blah blah blah, and I can't.
Speaker 4: And only recently am I starting to try to be
Speaker 4: like why the fuck not like yeah, whatever, yes, I
Speaker 4: do want like like I'm not helping anybody by not
Speaker 4: wanting to have a fabulous life. And if I do
Speaker 4: get to a point where I have more, I will
Speaker 4: always want to share that and like use it to
Speaker 4: help always.
Speaker 3: And I think when I was a kid, that's I
Speaker 3: was like always like.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be fucking rich and I'm gonna live in
Speaker 4: a Brownstone and I'm gonna adopt twenty kids, I'm gonna
Speaker 4: stay before Angela and Julie, and I'm gonna like use
Speaker 4: my money to save the world. And so I didn't
Speaker 4: feel guilty about the idea of wanting it, and I don't.
Speaker 4: Somewhere along the way, like I felt less deserving and
Speaker 4: and got more confused and made choices like away. Oh,
Speaker 4: I've made so many choices away from money, usually because
Speaker 4: it feels like sacrificing integrity.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 4: Now, I'm like, I should have just taken the money
Speaker 4: and run for half of those things.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Is there one you can pinpoint that was You're like
Speaker 2: many now looking back at like when I was what
Speaker 2: did you turn down that you would have now made
Speaker 2: a different choice.
Speaker 4: About, probably like when I first started acting. But also no,
Speaker 4: because like when I first started acting, I was like
Speaker 4: being offered like all the CW you know, like any
Speaker 4: like like hot, like girl on a CW show, you know.
Speaker 4: But I'm like, if you know whatever, people like I
Speaker 4: because I grew up in the nineties where it was
Speaker 4: like TV or film or like you don't you didn't, Yeah,
Speaker 4: I didn't know. So then I was like, no, no, no,
Speaker 4: I can't be a CW person. I can't do that
Speaker 4: because I want to be a real actor now and
Speaker 4: like it doesn't fucking you can be from TikTok.
Speaker 3: But all that being said, like I would have run
Speaker 3: out of that money.
Speaker 4: I didn't know how to use money, Like what, I
Speaker 4: there's this one that's not even a TV show. It
Speaker 4: was like it wouldn't have been that much money. But
Speaker 4: there was like an indie movie that basically I was,
Speaker 4: you know, there's a lot of interest in me for it.
Speaker 4: And I chose not to go into the city for
Speaker 4: the audition because I was currently doing reshoots with my
Speaker 4: on again, off again boyfriend at the time, and I
Speaker 4: didn't want to leave the hotel because I was afraid
Speaker 4: that he would break up with me. So I like
Speaker 4: skimmed through the script and I was like boring, like
Speaker 4: no things, didn't do it. And I was already supposed
Speaker 4: to be in this other movie at the time that
Speaker 4: was supposed to be like a thing and it's a
Speaker 4: two percent Rotten Tomatoes. It was not a scename, but
Speaker 4: there was another girl in it. It was just the
Speaker 4: two of us cast, and then she wound up dropping
Speaker 4: out to do this other movie that I didn't do,
Speaker 4: and she went an offer for it and became a fucking.
Speaker 3: Huge movie story. Wait what movie Winter's Bone? Shut up?
Speaker 3: But and who knows.
Speaker 4: I don't know for sure I would have it was,
Speaker 4: but at the time I was hot to trot, I
Speaker 4: had whatever. But how I see that is like, Okay,
Speaker 4: my demons and my you know, addictions and my stuff
Speaker 4: with men and all that like stop me from doing that.
Speaker 4: But in a weird subconscious way, I was also protecting
Speaker 4: myself because I was so unhealed and so unwell that
Speaker 4: if I had become famous at that point, I would
Speaker 4: have probably died. Like I couldn't have handled that. So
Speaker 4: it was like the thing that stop blocked me from
Speaker 4: it is the same thing that I.
Speaker 3: Needed to work through. Yea that even handled like I
Speaker 3: really would have died.
Speaker 4: I could if at that point, at twenty years old,
Speaker 4: I was so I had so many demons to work
Speaker 4: through and like I was so vulnerable, and I would
Speaker 4: not have been okay.
Speaker 3: And I as much.
Speaker 4: As I wish my career or I've wanted my career
Speaker 4: to be bigger already than it's been, like I'm so
Speaker 4: grateful I've had privacy to work through a lot of
Speaker 4: this stuff and now I feel like I could actually
Speaker 4: enjoy it and show up for it because I've like
Speaker 4: created I didn't have the support systems I had.
Speaker 3: Then I didn't have the tools I would Oh, I
Speaker 3: would have died. I would not have been good.
Speaker 2: Okay, so we're putting it out there. You're ready for
Speaker 2: it at all?
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm ready.
Speaker 2: I'm still date avoidance most recently. Yes, I just learned
Speaker 2: that word.
Speaker 3: By the way. Yeah, it's it's like it's.
Speaker 2: Kind of like a topical word now right now. And
Speaker 2: before that it was narcissist, you know. Now it's it's
Speaker 2: I did it all.
Speaker 4: I did all those types and we all have like
Speaker 4: you know, cross skill. But yes, yes, I My most
Speaker 4: recent relationship I would say, was with an avoidant and
Speaker 4: it was very painful and all this stuff. But I'm
Speaker 4: currently like really trying to get to the bar like
Speaker 4: fetal position, crying, like trying to like get to the
Speaker 4: deeper trauma that is like because at this like there
Speaker 4: was a time where I didn't feel like I was
Speaker 4: a good partner. I think I'm a fucking I think
Speaker 4: I am a really good partner. But it's like like
Speaker 4: as if I'm like a really good trained like Olympian swimmer,
Speaker 4: but I'm like just showing I'm like take me to
Speaker 4: the Olympics and then I go to like the fucking
Speaker 4: pole vultle thing.
Speaker 3: And I'm like trying. I'm like and I'm like, why isn't.
Speaker 4: This working, Like it's like, oh, you have to be
Speaker 4: you can't just go to the Olympics.
Speaker 3: You have to find the specific you have to train.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, same relationships. Wow.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So I feel I feel prepared to be
Speaker 4: a really fucking good partner. But the problem is I
Speaker 4: need another really good partner, like they need to be
Speaker 4: a good partner. And I don't know what fucking men are.
Speaker 2: But right, but I'm sure you've been told this because
Speaker 2: I'm similar that you're drawing those people in of course. Okay, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: because I could meet like my friend always says, like,
Speaker 2: you could be like in a stadium a huge sporting event,
Speaker 2: which I can't even get the words out because I
Speaker 2: don't get to sporting events. I don't like sports.
Speaker 3: So but and out of like thousands.
Speaker 2: Of men there, it's like, you'll pick the one red
Speaker 2: flag And I'm like.
Speaker 4: But I don't know it, but do you not, because
Speaker 4: I fucking do and I do it anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, no, as soon as I see the signs, I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, exactly by that, and.
Speaker 2: I just now everyone's like pick the green flag. I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh whatever, but I don't even know what that.
Speaker 3: I don't even know.
Speaker 4: Especially I feel like in your third I don't know
Speaker 4: what your experience was were you were you married when.
Speaker 3: I was married for eighteen years, So it's like.
Speaker 4: I got no I know, I know, I know reality.
Speaker 4: I know that was a painting. You know, there was
Speaker 4: a lot of pain there. But in your thirties, all
Speaker 4: the decent men are fucking married.
Speaker 3: They're partnered.
Speaker 4: Like if there's to me, if there's a guy over
Speaker 4: thirty five who's never like fully committed or there's something wrong.
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
Speaker 3: So what I need to wait for the divorces? No,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Now I've now been, you know, semi single. I had
Speaker 2: one relationship I was in since my husband but for
Speaker 2: two years now, over two years, and I don't know.
Speaker 2: The divorce ones are messed up too, So it's.
Speaker 3: That they have the baggage. I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I really don't know.
Speaker 4: But I feel like I used to have a rule
Speaker 4: that I completely ignored recently, but of to like if
Speaker 4: a guy by thirty five hasn't like started the journey
Speaker 4: of changing people never, if anything, they'll just like keep
Speaker 4: going backwards and get more and more immature. And I
Speaker 4: think I have seeing proof of that over and over
Speaker 4: and over again. But yeah, the one so right now,
Speaker 4: I'm thirty six. So it's like the ones who where
Speaker 4: they could say that about you then yep, sure no,
Speaker 4: but it's different men.
Speaker 3: I do think it's different. It's different, I really do.
Speaker 4: Uh, But they also could say that about I mean, yeah,
Speaker 4: but I'm also working with a lot of fucking shit. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it's been a fucking journey to become like a good
Speaker 4: but that's the thing I started the journey before. So
Speaker 4: it's not like all men over thirty five are off limits,
Speaker 4: but they have to have like really started the journey
Speaker 4: of work and not just therapy, because every guy I've
Speaker 4: ever fucking dated has been in therapy, and like your
Speaker 4: therapist only pushes you as far as you're willing to
Speaker 4: be pushed, so like that's not enough.
Speaker 2: Or what you tell them.
Speaker 4: Like, So, like I saw some like video on Instagram
Speaker 4: recently of a guy being like it's like the guy
Speaker 4: who's like done just enough there to be therapy to
Speaker 4: be an asshole, but like they have the words of
Speaker 4: like what to accuse you of?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, it's it's yeah.
Speaker 4: But they need to have been like really soul searching
Speaker 4: already by thirty five. It doesn't mean they have to
Speaker 4: be like not, They don't have to have been married,
Speaker 4: they just have to been like, I want to better
Speaker 4: who I am.
Speaker 2: Do you still want kids?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Very much, I do. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I had my last one naturally at forty four,
Speaker 2: really naturally. He didn't come out naturally, but he conceived
Speaker 2: nat Like, yeah, when did you have your first?
Speaker 3: Thirty two? Okay? Yeah, no, thirty four? All right, yeah no,
Speaker 3: I mean recently.
Speaker 4: I've just been trying to comfort myself by like, if
Speaker 4: I have to do it on my own, I will
Speaker 4: like I don't want that to make me. I don't
Speaker 4: want to be like leaning on desperation for a man
Speaker 4: for that, because that's fucks with me. But it'd be
Speaker 4: nice to just it'd be of course. Yeah, it's I
Speaker 4: will tell you this.
Speaker 2: I feel like, now that I've been through it, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't ever change anything. And I love my kids, and
Speaker 2: I love and respect my husband, my ex husband. But
Speaker 2: it's I'm not sure I believe that the human you
Speaker 2: have kids with is the human.
Speaker 3: You stay with forever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it really like you can't know or I
Speaker 2: would say to people, really discuss that journey of what
Speaker 2: their childhood looks like, what type of parent they want
Speaker 2: to be, which isn't sexy, Like you don't want to
Speaker 2: be dating someone and be that.
Speaker 3: Girl, like I am that girl?
Speaker 2: What kind of dad are you going to be?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 3: I feel like they'll tell you whatever you.
Speaker 2: Want to hear, and it's I have a question for
Speaker 2: you because I have a feeling you're the type. Are
Speaker 2: you able to, without even knowing knowing you're doing it,
Speaker 2: assess someone so fast and know exactly what they want
Speaker 2: and it's almost like you can be that human for them.
Speaker 2: And it's like it's so scary to me when I
Speaker 2: do it because I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, oh my gosh, this person is just like me.
Speaker 2: And then once I'm out of it, I'm like, wait,
Speaker 2: I'm just that I can know what feelings and stuff
Speaker 2: to kind of make myself into what they want.
Speaker 4: Really confusing because I've thought about that a lot recently,
Speaker 4: and I because I think of my I think of
Speaker 4: myself as someone with a very strong sense of self,
Speaker 4: almost as fault.
Speaker 3: But I do think.
Speaker 4: There's pieces of that because especially if you're an actor
Speaker 4: or like, like not that I'm acting, but I do.
Speaker 4: I feel like I have many pieces of me that
Speaker 4: I can kind of like lean into, Like I don't know,
Speaker 4: I don't have any clear idea like what the right
Speaker 4: partner for me would because I could go and sew,
Speaker 4: I could lean into the intelligence, I could lean into
Speaker 4: the humor, I could lean into the hotness, whatever it is, Like,
Speaker 4: there's so many I can reserve all of.
Speaker 3: That, by the way, I want all of it, don't
Speaker 3: get fucking wrong.
Speaker 4: But I'm like when it's like, you know, because obviously
Speaker 4: at this point being single, people like you just need
Speaker 4: dot dot and I'm like, I've done a lot of
Speaker 4: different things. It's not so I I do feel like
Speaker 4: I'm pretty clear on who I am, and I don't
Speaker 4: I definitely don't change what I say, but like, energetically,
Speaker 4: I can feel maybe that there's like a lean into
Speaker 4: different parts of me, and therefore I'm like ignoring other
Speaker 4: parts and then they come or I'll play dumb a little,
Speaker 4: I think sometimes or like yeah, I'll be a little
Speaker 4: softer about the red flags at first, and then when
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, so you can't treat me badly in this.
Speaker 3: Way, they're like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Why so much
Speaker 3: conflict because you just were like going with it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, and not fully, but I think it's right. More
Speaker 4: like I'll always be pretty honest. But it gets like
Speaker 4: I think i'll I think I believe people when I
Speaker 4: like say, like this shorts my feelings?
Speaker 3: Could you not do it?
Speaker 4: And they're like, yeah, I'm gonna work on that, And
Speaker 4: then like I just think that that's true, Like if
Speaker 4: they're like because to me, if somebody gives me a note,
Speaker 4: I'm like, all right, I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna
Speaker 4: do it, and I didn't. It's hard for me to
Speaker 4: understand that people like don't want to get better always
Speaker 4: even if they.
Speaker 2: Say they do, they don't even know.
Speaker 3: Well, I certainly tell them.
Speaker 2: Do you think you could be with a partner that
Speaker 2: doesn't do karaoke?
Speaker 3: Oh? Good question.
Speaker 4: As long as they are like enjoy being they can
Speaker 4: like get a kick out of it.
Speaker 3: They don't have to sing it. But if they were like.
Speaker 4: No, I don't have anti carryo, they were like up
Speaker 4: I couldn't be with someone who's like up tight, right.
Speaker 3: So they wouldn't.
Speaker 4: If anything, I maybe need to move away from the
Speaker 4: people who want to be the one singing but like
Speaker 4: they don't necessarily have to sing, but they have to
Speaker 4: like be down for the adventure of life.
Speaker 3: And so is that a deal breaker?
Speaker 4: Maybe I had thought of that one. By what about
Speaker 4: for you it's sushi? Well, I did some people who
Speaker 4: don't like sushi, and you're right, it does show a
Speaker 4: lot of fear and uptightist.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh that's a.
Speaker 2: Whole different conversation. Yeah, well, thank you for doing this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. This has been so fun.
Speaker 2: I'm so great to like get time with you.
Speaker 3: I knew we'd have more.
Speaker 2: It's just like we met on such a tiny, little,
Speaker 2: you know, moment, and I always think, like when I
Speaker 2: watch your Instagram, like, oh my gosh, I want to
Speaker 2: talk to her about this and that and that, and
Speaker 2: I just.
Speaker 3: Feel like we would have a lot in common.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we would never have known. And I think
Speaker 2: you're literally one of the most talented humans and make
Speaker 2: me cry. I want you to be happy and thriving
Speaker 2: because you deserve it.
Speaker 3: Thank you.