1 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: The biggest airport in Alaska is named after a man 2 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: who died in a plane crash, a man whose wife 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: also died in a different plane crash at the airport. 4 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: I'm talking about Senator Ted Stevens, who survived the nineteen 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: seventy eight crash that killed his first wife, only to 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: die thirty two years later in another crash. Stephen served 7 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: in the U. S. Senate for forty years until two 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, when, in the wake of a controversial 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,320 Speaker 1: corruption trial, he narrowly lost his seat to then Anchorage 10 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: Mayor Mark Begat. Begat his father, of course, Congressman Nick Beget, 11 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: disappeared on a small plane in Alaska in nineteen seventy two. 12 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 1: So many politicians have died in plane crashes, and there 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: are so many random coincidences tied to those crashes too. 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: Take the tiny town of Eveleth, Minnesota, for example. It's 15 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: both where Nick Beggitt is from and the spot where 16 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: in two thousand two U S. Senator Paul Wellstone died 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: in a plane crash right before the midterms. Or take 18 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: Check Morrison, the former mayor of New Orleans. Morrison, a 19 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: close friend of Congressman Hail Boggs died in a plane 20 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: crash in Mexico in nineteen sixty four. At the same time, 21 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: Boggs was serving on the Warrant Commission investigating the assassination 22 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: of President John F. Kennedy. Morrison actually died six months 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: to the day after Kennedy. Heck, even Kennedy's son died 24 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: in a plane crash in You see what I'm doing. 25 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: I'm dropping a load of conspiratorial bricks into your brain. 26 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: If you want, you can use them to build up 27 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: some crazy narrative of intrigue and murder, or you can 28 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: rely on common sense, because people who fly often on 29 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: small planes are more likely to die on small planes. 30 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: There's no grand conspiracy here, no Illuminati plot cooked up 31 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: in the basement of a little Caesar's. Now that doesn't 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: mean conspiracies never exist. They do. Plots are hatched and 33 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: people are killed all the time. And let me ask 34 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: you the claims we are investigating, the claims made by 35 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: Jerry Paisley, a mobster, a murderer, a bomber, that he 36 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: and Peggy Beggitt played a role in the disappearance of 37 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: Congressman Nick Begget. Are they really so crazy that they 38 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: didn't warrant a legitimate investigation. I don't think so, because 39 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: when you boil it down, when you remove the words 40 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: mobster and congressman and bomb, what do you get? You 41 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: get a claim made by a man that he played 42 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: a role in the death of his second wife's first 43 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: husband and that she did too. Typically, that's the type 44 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: of claim investigators and reporters take very seriously. Typically, but 45 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 1: in this case they didn't. The FBI never even interviewed Peggy, 46 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:57,639 Speaker 1: not once, and the Alaska news media never reported the story. 47 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,920 Speaker 1: It's not hyperbolic then, in my opinion, in to say 48 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: that if I didn't ask hard questions, nobody would. That's 49 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 1: why I had to go back to Alaska. There's only 50 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: so much you can do from Afar. I needed to 51 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: be on the ground, So I was grateful to touch 52 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: down on October at Ted Stephens Anchorage International Airport, the 53 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: airport named for a man who died in a plane crash. 54 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,400 Speaker 1: From my heart, media, this is missing in Alaska, the 55 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: story of two congressmen who vanished in nineteen two, and 56 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: my quest to figure out what happened to them. I'm 57 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: your host, John Wallzac. I want to talk for a 58 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: minute about bodies, specifically the importance of recovering physical remains 59 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: in the wake of tragedies. No matter how someone dies, 60 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: when you lose a loved one, if you lack of body, 61 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: you're deny some sense of finality. This is something Hail 62 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: Boggs's daughter Cokey Roberts discussed multiple times before she died, 63 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: how she knew her dad was dead, but without a body, 64 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: she still imagined him just walking in the door. One 65 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: day on October nineteen, only twenty four hours before I 66 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: landed in Anchorage, a man named Brian Stephen Smith was 67 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: arrested at the airport for murder. But it wasn't a 68 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: body that led to his arrest. It was a memory card. 69 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: On the card, an SD card, which someone found on 70 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 1: a downtown street, were photos and videos of a man 71 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: strangling a woman to death and laughing while he did it. 72 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: Four days later, while in Anchorage, I awoke to another 73 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: violent video, this one streamed to the world from my city, 74 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: New Orleans, where a hotel under construction partially collapsed into 75 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: the street, spewing up a dust cloud reminiscent of nine 76 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: eleven and killing three men. Amazingly, as of this record, 77 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: eight months later, the bodies of two of those men 78 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: are still stuck in the wreckage. Both of these events, 79 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: the SD card murder and the hotel collapse, are tragic. 80 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,720 Speaker 1: Both killed people, but in one case a body was recovered. 81 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: The remains of Kathleen Joe Henry, the SD card victim, 82 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: were found on the side of a highway. In the 83 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: other two, families are still waiting to bury their loved ones. Now, 84 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: obviously we all grieve differently, but most of us, when 85 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: we lose a loved one, want to bury them or 86 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: scatter their ashes. We want finality, that moment when dirt 87 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: covers a coffin, or we throw ashes into the wind. 88 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: At least then we can try to move on. It's 89 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: some sense of finality. This sense of finality, any finality, 90 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: was cruelly denied to the families of the four men 91 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: whose disappearance we're investigating, the can rassman, the pilot, the 92 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: political aid. Their bodies are still out there somewhere. Hail Bogs, 93 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: Nick Beggett, Don John's Russ Brown, all had wives, all 94 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: had children. Beggage had six kids. I am, of course, 95 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: well aware that this story is making them relive their 96 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: father's death. And confront allegations that their mother was involved. 97 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: That makes me feel kind of sick. So the idea 98 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: of meeting them in person and interviewing them was not 99 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: something I cherished, but I had to try. Before our trip. 100 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: I told three of them, Mark, Tom, and Nick Jr. 101 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: That I would be an anchorage and asked if we 102 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 1: could meet the other three their siblings. I left alone. 103 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: They were young when their dad died, and I didn't 104 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: want to bother them. Nick Jr. Declined an interview request. 105 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: Mark and Tom, however, agreed to sit down with me, 106 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: but then Tom started pressing for information, who was funding 107 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: the show, etcetera. Stuff like that, which I get. They're 108 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: a political family. Good questions. Eventually, Tom and Mark backed 109 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: out of the interview and they said their mother, Peggy, 110 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: would never do an interview. Tom did, however, agree to 111 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: answer questions via email. On the record. I asked about 112 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: his mom and Jerry Paisley from Tom quote, my mother 113 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: is eighty one. You have deeply upset her and it 114 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 1: is not our intent to add to her pain. Comparing 115 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 1: her word to that of a convicted killer is like 116 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 1: comparing climate change deniers to the scientific evidence of climate change. 117 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: These aren't journalistic equivalences. Those are the values of entertainment 118 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: journalism end quote. Again, I understand that my investigation is painful, 119 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 1: but I disagree with Tom. He said, she said, is 120 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: not the equivalent of comparing scientific fact to denial of 121 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: that fact. And I don't think Paisley's claims should be 122 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: written off without an investigation just because he was a criminal, 123 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 1: especially when evidence backed up parts of his story, his 124 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 1: marriage to Peggy, his business dealings, his mob ties, the 125 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: murders and bombings he committed, etcetera. I went on to 126 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: ask Tom about the state of his parents marriage around 127 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: the time his dad disappeared. Now this might seem cruel, 128 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: but it's relevant. Multiple sources told me that Nick and 129 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: Peggy Begetts were separated in nineteen seventy two, that they 130 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: were on the verge of divorce. If true, that's obviously 131 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: Jermaine as we try to evaluate Paisley's claims. Tom denied it, saying, quote, 132 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: my parents had difficulty in early nineteen sixty nine, which 133 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: they resolved that year. They were not separated. My dad 134 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 1: was in juno for sessions, as was the case every spring, 135 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: and even then they worked through it together. I know 136 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: that they sat all of us down and walked us 137 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: through it at the time, years before the disappearance, if 138 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: that helps. By the end of that year, they were 139 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: strong with each other as kids. We saw and knew 140 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 1: that that remained the case for the rest of his life. 141 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: End quote. I asked Tom about Paisley's claim that Peggy 142 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: met mob boss Joe Bonano in Tucson in nineteen seventy 143 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: two before Nick disappeared. Tom said, quote, I never considered 144 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: the comment about my mom by Jerry in that transcript 145 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: to be credible, not only because he was a consistent 146 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: liar in my direct experience with him, not only because 147 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: I know how she loved and still loves my father, 148 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 1: but because she could not have been there as Jerry claimed. 149 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: She was with us kids as our primary caretaker. Dad 150 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: was often traveling or in Juno. My mom was never 151 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: in Tucson, Arizona prior to nineteen seventy four. The suppose 152 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: dating at the hard of his conjecture never could have happened, 153 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: but that is the primary source of your conjecture. Jerry 154 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: was a bartender when they met an anchorage in December 155 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, after we returned to Anchorage. When she 156 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 1: realized how violent he was, she threw him out to 157 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: protect us kids. End quote. Paisley, Tom said, quote continues 158 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: to victimize us in death as he did in the 159 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: brief time we knew him. End quote and quote. Jerry 160 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: was a violent and vicious man who had a skill 161 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: at charming a person who was widowed with six kids. 162 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 1: My father never had a will, so she gained little 163 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: but heartbreak from his death. When she married Jerry, she 164 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: even lost her survivor's benefit. She ended up having to 165 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: cook meals and clean houses in the late eighties to 166 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: make ends meet. My family is wearied by the things 167 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: people like Jerry have said for their moment of fame 168 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: or notoriety. We want nothing more to do with it. 169 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: I wish you weren't doing this story, which will only 170 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: cause hurt and accomplished little but I understand from your 171 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: words to me your reasons end quote. Finally, Tom confirmed 172 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 1: that Peggy was never interviewed by law enforcement in regards 173 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: to Paisley's claims. After the Beggage has backed out, I 174 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: shifted my attention to other sources, including Tom Anderson, the 175 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: former head of the Alaska State troopers who I interviewed 176 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: in downtown Anchorage at the Alaska Law Enforcement Museum. Anderson 177 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: was directly involved in the search for the missing congressman 178 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: in nine two when they disappeared. He was a Captain 179 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: in charge of the troopers Criminal Investigation Bureau or c 180 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: i B. This is serious business. This was the most 181 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: serious search and rescue of this state ever had. And 182 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: there was no room for air. And the boss came 183 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: down and says, hey, we will follow up on everything 184 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: that comes along. Don't discount anything, And it was kind 185 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: of a cover your butt thing, but it was also 186 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: you never know, so we covered everything. I also met 187 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: up with Perry Green, who's famous for two things. His 188 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: poker skills, which have won him more than a million dollars, 189 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:41,479 Speaker 1: and his first shop. Green's furs are beautiful, meticulously crafted, 190 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,400 Speaker 1: often colorful works of art, purchased over the years by 191 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,079 Speaker 1: celebrities like Muhammad Ali. During my research, Green's name came 192 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: up often, probably because he knew literally everyone in Anchorage 193 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: in the seventies or so it seemed, including Gene Fowler, 194 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: one of two men Paisley claimed picked him up when 195 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 1: he allegedly transported a bomb to Alaska and Jean's brother Larry, 196 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: who Paisley said they met up with that night. Can 197 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: you tell me how you knew Gene and Larry. Well, 198 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: Jean was a partner of mine until we had a 199 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: parting of the ways. Um. Larry Fowler was his brother 200 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: who was just I think he had a pawn shop 201 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:28,040 Speaker 1: at the end. Maybe he had a bar, I can't remember, 202 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: but he I know he was thrown to drink a 203 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: little bit. But Jeane might have known Jerry Paisley in Arizona, 204 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: I think, But just you know, it would be hard 205 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: for me to fathom that Gene would be involved anyway 206 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: in such a destardly deed. And did you know Jerry Paisley. 207 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: I knew Verry Jerry Paisley pretty well, pretty well. He 208 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,400 Speaker 1: across the street was a holiday and today they call 209 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:11,319 Speaker 1: it something else. And I knew him. He started there 210 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 1: as a bartender, and he was a friendly enough certainty. 211 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:20,360 Speaker 1: Get off shift and and he would come over here 212 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: and sit in a chair and we'd talk a little bit. 213 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: And that's how I knew Jerry Green. Also knew Nick 214 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: and Peggy Baggage. And what was Peggy like? Moderately intelligent? Uh, 215 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: is that a bad way to describe somebody. She's not 216 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: an intellect. She was by no means intellectual, but she 217 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: wasn't from the hills. I don't want to despair anybody 218 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 1: who might be from uh, apple Chia or some place. 219 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: She was an average person. You know some people who 220 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: uh in spite of themselves, uh come from poor upbringing, 221 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: but they're pretty smart people. They got a lot of moxie. 222 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: She did not have what I call maxie, which is 223 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:30,800 Speaker 1: a ability to size people up or two. Um, really 224 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:38,239 Speaker 1: understand that sometimes people have old terrior motives or um, 225 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong. Did you know a man named Alex Miller? 226 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: Very well? I loved Alex Miller. Everybody everybody loved Alex Miller. 227 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: Alex Miller is the man who arranged the missing flight. 228 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:58,920 Speaker 1: Pay attention. He's important. He was bar owner who probably 229 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: never went into his own barn, never drank that I 230 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: know of, but always had a cigar in his mouth, 231 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: who claimed friendships with big Democrats back in the East Coast. 232 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: He was never a boaster. He would he would always 233 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: get two three. You know at that time, there's a 234 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: lot of money to three bucks out of you for 235 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: a candidate I don't know whether it went to him 236 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: or what. In fact, when the first governor of Alaska 237 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: was elected, he had him as the chief of staff. 238 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: He knew as much about how to pass legislation as 239 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: as I know about plumbing. On October, Miller, a well 240 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: connected political operative, called pilot Don John's at the last 241 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: minute to arrange the ill fated flight, something that always 242 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: struck me as odd. See. John's was in Fairbanks, sixty 243 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: miles north of Anchorage. Why ask a pilot to fly 244 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 1: from Fairbanks to Anchorage to Juno when you could just 245 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,879 Speaker 1: call a pilot already in Anchorage. The answer lies with 246 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: who paid for the flight? Nobody. It was free, likely 247 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: an illegal contribution to beget his campaign, though it's doubtful 248 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: Beggett knew that at the time. But why did John's 249 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,639 Speaker 1: do it? Two witnesses told me he was having money 250 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: issues and Miller twisted his arm. Here's Cheryl James, who 251 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: dated John's and was the last person to see him alive. 252 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: He was having financial trouble. He had geared up for 253 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: the pipeline and then that what had just been delayed delayed, delayed, 254 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 1: and he was paying insurance on costs on all of 255 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: these um I think they were called herks, these large 256 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,639 Speaker 1: aircrafts that could shuttle supplies back and forth to the 257 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: North Lope. And he was behind in landing fees and 258 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: he was told by somebody out of Juno that if 259 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: he did this flight that his landing fees is past 260 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: two landing fees would just go away. Which person it 261 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 1: wasn't the governor, but it was somebody right in the 262 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: Governor's office, and I cannot remember his name, said Alex 263 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: Miller it was. And here's John's friend, Tom cor Mettis, 264 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,880 Speaker 1: who was actually with John's when Miller called on October 265 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 1: when he got the call, and you were there? Who 266 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: made that call to him? Alex Miller? Don said it 267 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 1: was Alex Miller, And did don disclose what Alex said? 268 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: I only to pick up bogs and baggage and take 269 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: him to the airport to Juno. And that's when I said, well, 270 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: And Don did say something about he thought it was 271 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: bad either, but he was going to check it out. 272 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: And that's that's when he told me that he owed 273 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: it back rent on lending fees and the rent on 274 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: the hangar space. So why am I focusing on Alex Miller, 275 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: who cares who arranged the flight. Well, if Jerry Paisley 276 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: told the truth, if someone put a bomb on the 277 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: missing plane, that person would have had to know the 278 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: details of the flight, and the flight wasn't arranged until 279 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: the last minute on October ninety two. Miller is one 280 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: of very few people who knew those details. And remember 281 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: witnesses allegedly told members of law enforcement that they saw 282 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: someone lurking around the plane the night before it disappeared. 283 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: I'm also discussing Miller because when I started researching him, 284 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: I found red flags. Most importantly, in nineteen seventy six, 285 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: at the height of the oil boom, he was indicted 286 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: alongside a former U. S attorney for allegedly trying to 287 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: set up a large scale prostitution and gambling operation in Alaska. 288 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,640 Speaker 1: He was acquitted, but again red flags. This guy, who 289 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: the mayor of Fairbanks in nineteen seventy two jokingly called 290 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: the Godfather, arranged the missing flight. There's another twist though, 291 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 1: see Miller worked for a man named Neil Burke, a 292 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: wealthy businessman and pilot who owned an airline. Burke at 293 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: points was the richest man in Alaska. A CIA contractor 294 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,880 Speaker 1: and briefly George W. Bush's boss. But I digress. When 295 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: we first spoke, Burke told me something surprising. He claimed 296 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: that he was supposed to fly the missing congressman to 297 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: Juno the day they disappeared, but he got stuck in England, 298 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: he said, so he asked Miller to arrange an alternative. 299 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: If you were a Republican in the head of the 300 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: Young Republicans Club, why were you arranging a flight for 301 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: two Democratic congressman And that's my own business. I don't 302 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: care who I flew forward as long as we paid 303 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,440 Speaker 1: the bill. It was like, that's what I did. But 304 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: the flight was unpaid. It was a free flight. Thank 305 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: I'm sorry you think, Yeah, no, I it was I 306 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: It was reported in the news afterward, and I've I've 307 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: talked a few people. M. Well, then maybe I was billions, 308 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, from political reasons, and M yeah, I gave by. 309 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, later, while discussing his company's work for the CIA, 310 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: Burke mentioned a business partner in Arizona, something that immediately 311 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: piqued my interest. These guys were out of Tucson or 312 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: this company was out of Tucson. Yeah, not too soon. 313 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: There's an air base right between two Sons and Phoenix. 314 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: So was you know we're called and uh, anyway, that's 315 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: where they've been based. They were based, I don't know. 316 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: And this was a company that you worked with or 317 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: the CIA, folks, It was company intermount Intermountain Aviation, But yeah, 318 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: they were all CIA. They advanced several airlines. Seven Are 319 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: Transport was the CIA operations. But we worked with a 320 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: lot of different airlines and things around the world in 321 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: those days. And well, answering operations. Do you remember what 322 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: year you first did contract work for the CIA? Primary 323 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: around seventy one or seventy two when I first you know, 324 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: part of the story takes part in Arizona. So I 325 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: also asked people, Um, were you in Arizona in the 326 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: sixth season? Seventies? No? I mean was that Ondesday? Did 327 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: they ever go to Arizona in those years? Probably? I 328 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: don't know. I traveled constantly, so I felt who he 329 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,320 Speaker 1: was there. But you don't recall you don't recall going 330 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: to Tucson in the late sixties or early seventies. Yeah, 331 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: I did. I went down to the Inner Mountain one time. 332 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: What do you it was? This flying business? I mean 333 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't there. I mean, I don't even remember what 334 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 1: it was for Mozzano or now do you remember when 335 00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: that was? No, No, I don't. I traveled the world 336 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: for forty years. I mean, you know, I went everywhere. 337 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: At the end of our call, I circled back and 338 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: pressed burked on an important detail. I guess the question 339 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: that I would have is, why call a pilot in 340 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: Fairbanks to go down to Anchorage to go down to Juno? 341 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,600 Speaker 1: Why not just call a pilot an Anchorage directly? It 342 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: seems kind of a long journey when there were so 343 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: many pilots available in Anchorage. Sure, I don't know, I know, 344 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: but why that? I mean, I I had my recollection 345 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: and it was a revenue trip, and probably I was, 346 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: you know, because Don was a friend of mine. I 347 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: was throwing some business this way. But you're telling me 348 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,720 Speaker 1: it was a non revenue trip. So that shows you 349 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: how much I had to remember. Yeah, I know it was. 350 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: It was an unpaid, unpaid trip. Yeah, that's that's just 351 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: that strikes me as strange. Why because I didn't do 352 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: much for me, that was my business was, And then 353 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: why why when I fly unpaid trip for the Democrats? 354 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: I feel while a hitckled around and uh his first 355 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 1: campaign for governor. But I donated my time, but they 356 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: made them get an airplane and and just listen and 357 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: given away free fights. Wasn't my thing in those days. 358 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: We were in the business to selling the place. But 359 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,119 Speaker 1: you know, you may have better records than I do. 360 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: Where somebody has a better memory than I do. H 361 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 1: in Anchorage, the person I wanted to interview most was 362 00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: danny's Ivenage, one of two men Jerry Paisley claimed him 363 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: up at the airport in the summer of nineteen seventy 364 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: two when Paisley allegedly transported explosives from Arizona to Alaska. 365 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: After Nick Begett disappeared, Zivinach had gone into business with 366 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: Paisley and Peggy Baggage. The trio started Max Inc. Which 367 00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: ran a bar the Alaska mining company. Peggy was president, 368 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: Paisley secretary treasurer, Zivinach vice president. Paisley told investigators that 369 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: while drunk on a fishing trip, Zivinach said that the 370 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: Congressman's plane was bombed and that he played a direct 371 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: role in bombing it. I did end up speaking with 372 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: Zivinas several times for hours by phone, but he declined 373 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: to do a recorded interview. Every time we spoke, he 374 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: was defensive and sarcastic, though people who know him repeatedly 375 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: told me he's an upstanding guy. Every time he vehemently 376 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: denied Paisley's claims. But when I asked him why he 377 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,360 Speaker 1: got fifty percent ownership of Max Inc. Why Peggy Begette 378 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: insisted he be a partner in the business, even though 379 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: at the time Peggy had plenty of money and Zivinich, 380 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: a bartender, had no experience managing a bar. He didn't 381 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,920 Speaker 1: have a good answer. In fact, he said he's still 382 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: not sure. So the story of our Alaska trip is 383 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: in part like that of Arizona, one of frustration, interviews, denied, 384 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: dead end leads. That's to be expected to be honest. 385 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: It's not like I thought we'd fly into Anchorage and 386 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 1: solve everything in a matter of days. When I say we, 387 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: by the way, I'm talking about myself plus three of 388 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: our producers, Ben Bolan, Paul Deckett, and Chris Brown past 389 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: interviews past the bombing claim. The most important reason we 390 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: went to Alaska was to embark on a search for 391 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: the missing plane, and not some fake search because I 392 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: heard interesting stories about certain reality TV shows fabricating searches 393 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: in Alaska. This search was real. In late I received 394 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: an absolutely fascinating tip from a man named Bob Martinson, 395 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: a longtime commercial fisherman and photojournalist. Around nineteen Bob said, 396 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: he and two other men, including his dad, we're fishing 397 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: off the coast of an island in Prince William Sound 398 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: when they pulled up something surprising. Part of Assessina tale. 399 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: Here's Bob. I had a reel in the boat that 400 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: would pull the net in, and I'd step on a 401 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: card to upgrade the hydraulic valve and it would It 402 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 1: would just bring the net in. And when I came 403 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: to weeds or sticks or fish or whatever in the net, 404 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: you just take your foot off the pedal and pick 405 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 1: it out of the net. Well, something big and loud 406 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: and italic punked into the bow of the skiff, and 407 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: I saw, what the heck is that? To look over 408 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: and see the tail of an airplane was pretty shocking 409 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,560 Speaker 1: to say the least. But you know, I didn't want 410 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: to drop it because of all the tangled metal it was. 411 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: It was fairly fresh looking tears, you know, but like 412 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: I said, that aluminum was shiny and it didn't have 413 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: things growing on it. Bob found the tail wreckage in 414 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: port off the coast of Hinchinbrook Island, at the entrance 415 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: of Prince William Sound. It came up in the lead 416 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: of his pers sing a type of net. And it 417 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,960 Speaker 1: was when I was fishing with my dad and a 418 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: guy named Holi Risa, and we fished port ches quite often, 419 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: and we didn't usually fish this one beach, but we 420 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: tried it because we saw some fish over there and 421 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: and we lay a lead off for the beach, which 422 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 1: is a heavy white net that the fish will see 423 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: and it takes them out to where the the person 424 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: can operate without hanging up on rocks, and so it 425 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: leads the fish off for the beach. And when I 426 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: picked up the lead, it had a tail of what 427 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,200 Speaker 1: looked like assessina. It was. It was pretty shredded, you know. 428 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: Obviously the rest of the plane was gone, so what 429 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: I caught in the net was it was probably all 430 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,960 Speaker 1: that we remained on that beach. Amazingly, most of the 431 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,840 Speaker 1: tail number was still visible. I know it's been a 432 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: long time, but would you feel comfortable saying that it 433 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: was at least four characters. Yeah, it was. It was 434 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: like four or five numbers, and the tail was, uh, 435 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: you know, four and a half. The piece I had 436 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: was like four and a half ft five ft long 437 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: and maybe three four ft tall. It was pretty much 438 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: the whole upper section of the tail. And can you 439 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: tell me um more detailed you mentioned port? Do you 440 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 1: remember exactly specifically where around tension book you caught it? Yeah? 441 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: It was the western shore of of Poor Edges, just 442 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: outside of the entrance to Constantine Harbor. And how how 443 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: far off the shore? How how deep into the water? Oh, 444 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: it was probably um maybe a hundred and fifty ft 445 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 1: off shore and maybe tep something like that. Bob remembers 446 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: the tail as being reddish and white. The color of 447 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: the missing plane was described on paper as orange and white, 448 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: but I'm not sure which shade of orange. Bob also 449 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,360 Speaker 1: told me that he's shade blind, so the reddish color 450 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: he remembers could have been more of an orange. You know, 451 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: I had asked you a few years ago if you 452 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: had any photos you by chance have a chance to 453 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: look or do you know if you have any photos 454 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: of the tailpiece? No, I don't think I do. We 455 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: were we were fishing. It's possible I could have taken him, 456 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: but then it would have been on film. And I 457 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: don't remember seeing pictures of it. And can you tell 458 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: me what kind of you were talking a little bit 459 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: about the condition, what kind of condition was in in Well, 460 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: the tail looked like necessarily new plane, like it didn't 461 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: have anything growing on it. I don't remember. It looks 462 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: pretty shiny, but it was shredded, you know, like like 463 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: it was torn off, and it was it was just 464 00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: the upright section of the tail, you know, the top piece. 465 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: Bob said that he, his dad, and their fishing partner 466 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:15,160 Speaker 1: only Resa, reported the wreckage, including the partially visible tail number, 467 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: to the Alaska State Trooper's office in Cordova, a town 468 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: on Prince William Sound. He doesn't remember exactly how, whether 469 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: they radio did in or reported it once they got back. 470 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: He's also fuzzy on what they did with the actual wreckage. 471 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: He doesn't recall whether or not they left it in 472 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: the water, brought it to Cordova themselves, or sent it 473 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: back on a tender, a small boat that resupplied them 474 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: during their fishing trip. I know we reported it, and 475 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: I know we heard that it was suspicious because of 476 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: the numbers and the coloring, and so it seems like 477 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: they they wanted that piece. And I can't remember what 478 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: we in with it. You know, we were in the 479 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: middle of fishing, so there's not a lot of room 480 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: on the boat, so I don't know if we kept it, 481 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, something like that's pretty important, So 482 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: I doubt I threw it out until they said it 483 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,560 Speaker 1: wasn't important or something. And I don't remember if anybody 484 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: came and collected it or it was a long time ago. Yeah, 485 00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,280 Speaker 1: but they specifically told you that it might be tied 486 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 1: to the missing Bog's baggage plane. Yes, yeah, that's the 487 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: only reason I I was aware of it. You know, 488 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: what Bob does clearly remember is that after the troopers 489 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,480 Speaker 1: got the partial tail number, they were very interested in 490 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,560 Speaker 1: the wreckage. So let me dig in here and review 491 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: a few things. First, Bob is reliable. I wouldn't take 492 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: a lead from some random person this seriously, without vetting them. 493 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,800 Speaker 1: I checked his background. People in Cordova know him. He 494 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: is a longtime fisherman and photographer. He's calm. He hasn't 495 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,520 Speaker 1: sought out media attention ever, He only contacted me in 496 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:19,000 Speaker 1: after reading about my work because I specifically mentioned Hinchinbrook Island, 497 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: the island off which he found the tailpiece. Sadly, the 498 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,240 Speaker 1: two men with Bob that day, his dad and Oli Reza, 499 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: who could have corroborated his story, have died. But in 500 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen I spoke with Only's son, Steve, a physician 501 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,240 Speaker 1: in Washington State, who said Bob is reliable and honest. 502 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,839 Speaker 1: Steve used to fish in Alaska with Bob, Bob's dad 503 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: and his dad. He stopped right before he went to 504 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,080 Speaker 1: med school in nineteen seventy nine. Since he wasn't there 505 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: when the other men pulled up the tail piece, they 506 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,439 Speaker 1: must have founded around nineteen eighty or later, he said, 507 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: which matches up with what Bob told me. I also 508 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 1: compared everything Bob said in with what he told me 509 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen. His story was consistent, So I believe Bob. 510 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: I believe that he found part of a plane. The 511 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: question is whether or not it was part of the 512 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: missing plane. Second, the location where Bob found the tailpiece 513 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: is very interesting. Nearly every person I interviewed believes the 514 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 1: missing plane crashed into Prince William Sound somewhere between Portage 515 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: Pass and Hension Brook Island. See there was a communication 516 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: station on Nsion Book that the pilot Don John's should 517 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,839 Speaker 1: have been able to use to make radio contact while 518 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: over the sound, but the day he vanished, he didn't. 519 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 1: Now there are multiple possible explanations for this. His radio 520 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: could have failed, he might have been flying low, somewhat 521 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: off course and unable to make line of sight contact. 522 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: But the likeliest explanation is that he crashed somewhere between 523 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: Portage Pass and Hension Brook into Prince William Sound. So 524 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: the spot where Bob found the cessenon tail right off 525 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: Hension Brook lines up roughly with the missing planes flight path. Third. 526 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: While a number of planes have crashed on or near 527 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: Hensin Brook, most were recovered or their craft sites were cataloged. 528 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: There are only so many Sessna like planes that disappeared 529 00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: in the vicinity of Hension Brook before nineteen eighty and 530 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: were never found. Unfortunately, I can't give you an exact number. 531 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:26,759 Speaker 1: The database of crashes hosted by the NTSB is clunky, incomplete, 532 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: and hard to parse. If somehow we were able to 533 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: get this figure, to know that say, ten Cessna like 534 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: planes vanished within twenty miles of hension book before nineteen eighty. 535 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 1: It would help immensely. We would be able to better 536 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: judge the odds of whether or not the tailpiece Bob 537 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: found belonged to the baggage Bogg's plane. Fourth, the color 538 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: of what Bob found roughly matches the color of the 539 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: missing plane. He remembers it as being reddish and white. 540 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: The missing plane, again was orange and white, but Bob 541 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,879 Speaker 1: is aid blind, so there's some ambiguity. One key piece 542 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: of documentation that would be invaluable right now is a 543 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 1: photo of the missing plane, which Don John's repainted around 544 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy when he bought it. But I've never been 545 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: able to find one, and I asked everyone. So here's 546 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: the next best thing. A description of the plane and 547 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: its coloration from the mechanic who worked on it the 548 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: day before it disappeared. Here's Phil hewith. I can't remember 549 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: what the name of the color was. That it was 550 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,320 Speaker 1: fairly bright, it was almost it was I'm going to 551 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: call the international orange color and white and the orange 552 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:46,239 Speaker 1: was on the top portion of the aircraft, and it 553 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 1: was it was I don't remember it being striped. I 554 00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: remember where the orange was. It was a solid color, 555 00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,919 Speaker 1: but the whole airplane wasn't orange. It was orange and white. 556 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: It was a two tone. And you know it's just 557 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 1: multi engine Cessna three Tennessee. And what the tail numbers? 558 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: Do you remember where the tail number was painted on 559 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: the plane? Yeah? It was if I remember correctly, it 560 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,960 Speaker 1: was on the tail, you know, on the upright the rudder. 561 00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: It wasn't visible from the air looking down on it. 562 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: Would it have been um painted at the top or 563 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:41,400 Speaker 1: bottom of the tail a small or large characters? I 564 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,080 Speaker 1: think it was in the middle of the rudder tail 565 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: and it was the fond size was to fit the 566 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:57,040 Speaker 1: basically the whole middle of that tail rudder. It wasn't 567 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,680 Speaker 1: overly big and it wasn't overly small. All they had 568 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:05,240 Speaker 1: so many numbers and letters to get into that space 569 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: that that's where it was. And so when you say 570 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 1: the middle, it was kind of like, I'm I know 571 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: what the plane looks like. So if I'm looking at 572 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: the tail, it would kind of just be a dead 573 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,919 Speaker 1: set in the middle and going across the tail horrid, Yeah, 574 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,480 Speaker 1: horizontally across. It wasn't it askew or anything like that. 575 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 1: It would just horizontally down out midway of that Dale rutter. 576 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: And was the tail um also to tone? Was it 577 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 1: also orange and white? Uh? I don't remember that. If 578 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 1: it was, it might have been fifth, And most importantly, 579 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,720 Speaker 1: Bob said that four or five characters were still visible 580 00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 1: on the tailpiece. The Beggetts Bob tail number had six 581 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:06,880 Speaker 1: characters N one eight one to h. The end doesn't 582 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: mean much. It's generic and on most small planes in 583 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,919 Speaker 1: the US. But if Bob found a tailpiece that said 584 00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:18,359 Speaker 1: N one eight one or N one eight one two, 585 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,959 Speaker 1: that would be extremely significant. The odds of Assessina tail 586 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 1: with four or five of the same characters as that 587 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: of the missing plane with a similar color found off 588 00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,479 Speaker 1: Hinchinbrook Island not being the baggage Bogg's plane are next 589 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: to zero. This is why I think Bob's lead is 590 00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: the most important lead on where the plane may have 591 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 1: crashed in nearly fifty years. According to Bob, troopers and 592 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,879 Speaker 1: Cordova were very excited when they learned about the Cessina tail. 593 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: They thought it could be part of the baggage Bogg's plane. 594 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,760 Speaker 1: A key question I had for Bob. Did the troopers 595 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 1: say that before they learned the partial tail number or after, 596 00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,040 Speaker 1: because if before, it's not surprising that they would have 597 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,280 Speaker 1: linked it possibly to a famous missing plane. But if after, 598 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 1: if they still thought it was part of the missing plane, 599 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,440 Speaker 1: that's very important because they almost certainly would have known 600 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: the tail number of the missing plane, and they would 601 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,719 Speaker 1: have compared it to what Bob found. Bob said, the 602 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: troopers told him they thought it was part of the 603 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: baggage Bog's plane after they compared the tail numbers. This 604 00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 1: is why I was so excited that day a month 605 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: earlier in Arizona, when Bob texted me the exact coordinates 606 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,399 Speaker 1: of where he found the tail. And this is why, 607 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 1: as winter loomed, I boarded a salvage boat and went 608 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,000 Speaker 1: onto Prince Williams Sound to hintin Brook Island to that 609 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:47,040 Speaker 1: exact spot next time on missing in Alaska. We have 610 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:53,120 Speaker 1: a radio, We have air horn and flares, so Tin 611 00:42:53,160 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: if you see a bear coming tardsas yeah. This week, 612 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,640 Speaker 1: I have two very important task for you. First, look 613 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,040 Speaker 1: for a photo of the missing plane and orange and 614 00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: white twin engine Cessna three tense with the tail number 615 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,240 Speaker 1: and one eight one to h Second, help us figure 616 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 1: out how many small planes crashed on or in the 617 00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: vicinity of hensin Brook Island before nineteen eight, especially if 618 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: wreckage was never located. We'd love to speak with an 619 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: expert who can sort through NTSB data and give us 620 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 1: an exact number. You can reach us by phone at 621 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,279 Speaker 1: one eight three three m I A tips that's one 622 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: eight three three six four two eight four seven seven 623 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:45,359 Speaker 1: again one eight three three six four two eight four 624 00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,279 Speaker 1: seven seven, or you can reach us via email at 625 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,920 Speaker 1: tips at I heeart media dot com. That's tips, T 626 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 1: I P s at I heart media dot com. Ben 627 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: Bowen is our executive producer, Paul is our supervising producer, 628 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:05,320 Speaker 1: Chris Brown is our assistant producer, Seth Nicholas Johnson is 629 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: our producer. Sam T. Garden is our research assistant, and 630 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm your host and executive producer, John Wallzac. You can 631 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at at John Wallzac j O 632 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:20,520 Speaker 1: n W A l c z A K special thanks 633 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,240 Speaker 1: to Bob Martinson. Missing in Alaska is a co production 634 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 1: of I heart Media and Green Fork Media