WEBVTT - MATT BELL - Corn, Consequences, and Comebacks

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your host, Coleen Wait, and today I have a

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<v Speaker 1>very special guest and this with all parts of me.

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<v Speaker 1>Author CEO Matt Bell is in the building all the

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<v Speaker 1>way from Ohio. Got you to come out here. I

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<v Speaker 1>really appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm glad to be here. Thank you. It's awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, this is awesome. And before we get into Mad's story,

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<v Speaker 1>I have to ask the ultimate question, what are you

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<v Speaker 1>going to have me eating today?

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<v Speaker 2>We're we are going to eat corn on the cob.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna eat corn on the cob. I gave some options.

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<v Speaker 2>You asked what I used to eat when I was broke,

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<v Speaker 2>and gave you a little variety of what it used

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<v Speaker 2>to be like. And here we are. We're going to

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<v Speaker 2>do this and I have a really impactful story on why.

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<v Speaker 1>Just so you guys know the I chose corn on

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<v Speaker 1>the because the other options was like trash.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I used to eat out of the trash cans.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah you're not. We're not gonna do that on the show.

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<v Speaker 2>I used to obviously like a break. I'd make a

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<v Speaker 2>break all the time at home. You know, break is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what break?

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<v Speaker 1>Is no. Is that one of the options we gave me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like in jail, you mix everything together. They're called

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<v Speaker 2>I think they're called different things everywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>I've had that on the show, by the.

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<v Speaker 2>Way, like I saw it, and it's I should clarify,

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<v Speaker 2>not corn on the cob, but like raw corn.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's what I was gonna get into the next guys.

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<v Speaker 1>I love corn on the cob, so you know I

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<v Speaker 1>love out here in LA they call it, I think

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<v Speaker 1>a low tastes like corn on the cob sweet corn.

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<v Speaker 1>They put like mao and cheese and have you had it.

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<v Speaker 2>I've had it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so amazing. But unfortunately we're not eating that today.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're gonna have corn on the cob, but the

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<v Speaker 1>raw version.

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<v Speaker 2>Raw straight off the rawky out of the field.

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<v Speaker 1>And before we get into this story, Matches celebrated his

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<v Speaker 1>ten years of SOET and I guess backtrack it. I said,

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<v Speaker 1>you're the CEO, a CEO and author. Why don't you

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<v Speaker 1>talk about what you're the CEO of and the books?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the CEO of Team Recovery Addiction treatment center. I started.

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<v Speaker 2>We have two sides of it. We have the limited

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<v Speaker 2>liability side, which actually provides the healthcare services, and then

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<v Speaker 2>we have a foundation side as well, which is more

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<v Speaker 2>so wrap round services of in addiction treatment. You can

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<v Speaker 2>provide all these different levels of care and services, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's all build through insurance. There's a lot of other

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<v Speaker 2>stuff that needs to be done, like conversations with families,

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<v Speaker 2>like prevention in schools. There's just so much and you

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<v Speaker 2>can't bill insurance for that, and so there's no money

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<v Speaker 2>to pay for those sorts of things, and so we

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<v Speaker 2>started a foundation and we raise funds throughout the ear

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<v Speaker 2>in a lot of different ways to still be able

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<v Speaker 2>to do those things to go, like teach kids that

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<v Speaker 2>choices have consequences. Bad choices have bad consequences, and good

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<v Speaker 2>choices have good consequences. But we're so reactive to everything

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<v Speaker 2>in the world, like we need to get proactive with

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<v Speaker 2>addiction treatment and mental illness and things like that. And

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<v Speaker 2>then family support. We know that if somebody is struggling

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<v Speaker 2>with addiction, they've got ten to twenty loved ones around

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<v Speaker 2>them that need support too, and so if those ten

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<v Speaker 2>to twenty people can receive support, the success rate of

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<v Speaker 2>the individual actually goes up. So again that's what the

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<v Speaker 2>foundation does. Started all that stuff about ten years ago

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<v Speaker 2>when I was in detox. Actually, I was going.

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<v Speaker 1>To say ten years and ten years.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it lined up perfectly. I was two days clean

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<v Speaker 2>when I started it. It was two days.

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<v Speaker 1>Clean, and you were like, already think about helping somebody else.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it wasn't really, So I had no clue what

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<v Speaker 2>it was going to turn into, and I wasn't thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about it the way that it turned into. I just

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<v Speaker 2>knew that the way that it was being offered wasn't perfect.

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<v Speaker 2>I knew that. And because I'd been to treatment twenty

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<v Speaker 2>eight times. I went to treatment twenty eight times all

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<v Speaker 2>over the country, and so I had seen a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of different kinds of treatment, and I never really experienced anything.

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<v Speaker 2>It just felt like a very aniquated delivery service delivery

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<v Speaker 2>of healthcare. So why is like all healthcare is evolving

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<v Speaker 2>and getting significantly better. I've been going to treatment for

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<v Speaker 2>ten years and it feels the same as I did

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<v Speaker 2>ten years ago. The twenty eighth time feels like the

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<v Speaker 2>first time.

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<v Speaker 1>What was this like habitual way they were trying to

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<v Speaker 1>treat you? Because you said twenty eight times, so I'm

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<v Speaker 1>guessing they were all going the same route every time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for the most part. And I'll say this too

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<v Speaker 2>that I think someone can get sober wherever they want to.

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<v Speaker 2>You can get sober in the nicest treatment center in

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<v Speaker 2>the world. You can get sober in a barn if

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<v Speaker 2>you want to. You get sober at home, you can

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<v Speaker 2>get sober in prison. You can get sober wherever you

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<v Speaker 2>want to and want it bad enough. But so I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not like blaming it on the treatment centers. I just

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't ready, is really what it came down to. But

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<v Speaker 2>what I noticed, and what I hear people say all

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<v Speaker 2>the time, is that they felt like a number. They

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<v Speaker 2>just felt like a number and a process. That is

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<v Speaker 2>just it's a medical model, and addiction treatment is very philosophical, right,

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<v Speaker 2>It's just very we need to get to the core

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<v Speaker 2>of what's going on. But it's very okay, come in,

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<v Speaker 2>do your assessment. If your assessment says this, then go

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<v Speaker 2>to this room and then go to that room. It's

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<v Speaker 2>like you go into an er with a broken bone,

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<v Speaker 2>you go into surgery, you get a cast on. It's

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<v Speaker 2>very process driven, and addiction treatment just shouldn't have to

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<v Speaker 2>be that way, but it's that's the way healthcare is

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<v Speaker 2>in our countries. I felt like a number. I felt

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<v Speaker 2>like I was being like herded through a process instead

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<v Speaker 2>of being seen as a human being. The buildings that

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<v Speaker 2>I went to treatment in were run down buildings. It

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<v Speaker 2>was probably all donated furniture and parts of town where

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<v Speaker 2>certain people in other parts of town would say, no,

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<v Speaker 2>we're not allowed, We're not allowed to have treatment centers

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<v Speaker 2>here because we don't have those problems, and so all

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<v Speaker 2>the treatment centers, because these are individuals that make bad choices,

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<v Speaker 2>You're going to go to this part of town in

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<v Speaker 2>these types of buildings with That's how treatment has been.

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<v Speaker 2>It's how treatment has been. It's a marginalized, oppressed population

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<v Speaker 2>that are seene is less than desirables.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and then would you say, I'm going to be

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<v Speaker 1>all over the place with this, But would you say

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<v Speaker 1>that from your experience with addiction that a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>it is trauma. I think with your story, your addiction

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<v Speaker 1>came from a different background. We'll get into that. Would

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<v Speaker 1>you say that a lot of addiction starts from like

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<v Speaker 1>unhealed trauma.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's one of the biggest things. Yes, I

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<v Speaker 2>think that there's some sort of pain there, regardless of

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<v Speaker 2>if it's an actual physical pain. See a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>physical pain turning into the opioid epidemic and pain pills,

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<v Speaker 2>but of emotional pain and whether that's trauma or PTSD

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<v Speaker 2>or some sort of underlying unaddressed mental health issue. People

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<v Speaker 2>don't just decide to use substances to the point where

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<v Speaker 2>they need treatment, whatever the substance is, because their life

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<v Speaker 2>is going well, because life is perfect. People don't do that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not normal. So if someone's struggling with addiction and

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<v Speaker 2>they've gotten to that point where there's a diagnosable like

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<v Speaker 2>severity there, and sometimes I don't even know it, but

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<v Speaker 2>there's something there. In my case, I didn't know it.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh so there was something there, but yours. Okay, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>we got to get into your story. We got to

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<v Speaker 1>get in Okay, Okay, First let's I want to experience this.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're going to go. I wanted to read this,

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<v Speaker 1>but you touched on it. But there was this post

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<v Speaker 1>Matt made this week, and I wanted to read it

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<v Speaker 1>to you. Guys said ten years ago, I was the

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<v Speaker 1>guy in the mugshots, the guy in the hospital bed

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<v Speaker 1>who had people coming to say they're goodbyes. I was

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<v Speaker 1>that guy thirteen arrests, twenty eight rehabs, three overdoses, homelessness,

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<v Speaker 1>no hope left. I called the police on myself that day,

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<v Speaker 1>thinking I'd spend the rest of my life in prison.

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<v Speaker 1>But God had another plan for me. This was ten

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<v Speaker 1>years ago. That's crazy. It's nuts that you called, but

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<v Speaker 1>you even I guess where. I was a little confused too,

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<v Speaker 1>is man, what was going on where he called the

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<v Speaker 1>police on himself? And then why did you think you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to spend the rest of your life in prison?

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<v Speaker 2>You have an answer this, Yeah, I called the police

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<v Speaker 2>on myself because so it gets cold in Ohio. It

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<v Speaker 2>gets very cold in Ohio. Remember the second question, because

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna forget it, Okay, I got It gets cold

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<v Speaker 2>in Ohio. This October specifically, it was dropping down below

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<v Speaker 2>freezing and I was homeless. I would sleep wherever I could,

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<v Speaker 2>and I went to my mom's house one night, and

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<v Speaker 2>at this point my mom was not letting me in

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<v Speaker 2>the house anymore, like those days were over. She was

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<v Speaker 2>starting to get some help from like family support groups

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<v Speaker 2>about enabling and things like that. So I asked her,

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<v Speaker 2>I said, Mom, can I just come in the garage tonight?

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<v Speaker 2>She had an unattached garage. I said, can I just

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<v Speaker 2>sleep in the garage so I can find shelter tonight

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<v Speaker 2>with a space heater. I just want to it's gonna

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to freeze. I want to survive the night.

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<v Speaker 2>And she looked at me. She said, Matt, you will

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<v Speaker 2>always be my son, but you're no longer my child.

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<v Speaker 2>If you don't get off my property, I'm calling the police.

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<v Speaker 1>Holy cow, your mom.

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<v Speaker 2>My mom. Yeah, my mom said that, and then she

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<v Speaker 2>just shut the door slowly, and that I knew that

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<v Speaker 2>I was hurting my family and not making good decisions.

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<v Speaker 2>That was obviously apparent. My life was unmanageable. But to

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<v Speaker 2>hear her say what I heard her say is I

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<v Speaker 2>love you to death and you'll always be my son,

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<v Speaker 2>but whether you live or die tonight is not my problem.

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<v Speaker 2>And the way that I interpreted that hit something inside

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<v Speaker 2>that had like never just it had never been hit,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I was actually I had given up on

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that I could be sober, like sobriety is

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<v Speaker 2>not I see that people do it, but it's not

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<v Speaker 2>for somebody like me. Everything good that I'd done in

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<v Speaker 2>my life, all the sports and the grades and all

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<v Speaker 2>the sort of stuff like that was a thing of

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<v Speaker 2>the past. I didn't I didn't know what to do.

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<v Speaker 2>And I got to this like really scary moment where

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<v Speaker 2>I thought maybe I shouldn't be here anymore. And that

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<v Speaker 2>thought I had never ever thought of that ever in

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<v Speaker 2>my life. I'm talking about ending my life. And I

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<v Speaker 2>love life. I love everything about life. I can like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll have fun eating this corn today. And the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that I was thinking about that absolutely scared me to death.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I was like, I can't get sober. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't have the courage to end my life. I just

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<v Speaker 2>need to go to prison. And I thought that I

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<v Speaker 2>was going to go to prison because I had a

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<v Speaker 2>fugitive warrant in the state of Michigan. I had a

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<v Speaker 2>felony warrant in the state of Warrants for Michigan was

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<v Speaker 2>for a second degree home invasion. And so I went

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<v Speaker 2>into somebody's house. I didn't know that they were home,

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<v Speaker 2>but I went into somebody's house to steal something to

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<v Speaker 2>feed my addiction, and they were home. And so in

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<v Speaker 2>the state of Michigan, if someone's home when you break

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<v Speaker 2>into to do some sort of theft, they classified it

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<v Speaker 2>as a home invasion in Pennsylvania it was grand theft

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<v Speaker 2>or grand larceny if I don't remember exactly what. It's

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<v Speaker 2>a different state by state. And then I also had

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<v Speaker 2>one in Ohio. It's the same thing, grand larceny in

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<v Speaker 2>the state of Ohio. So I had three felony warrants

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<v Speaker 2>in three different states. If the police caught me. These

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<v Speaker 2>were extrable offenses to where I would went, oh yeah, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>that's real time. Absolutely, they were looking for me, they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted me, and it was just a matter.

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<v Speaker 1>Of were able to charge you, but they were like

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<v Speaker 1>charging you and releasing you or the cat and then

0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:41.480
<v Speaker 1>they release you.

0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:44.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, I had been charged and bonded.

0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Out, okay, And I, like your mom or something.

0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.440
<v Speaker 2>Always had somebody to bond me out. And these were

0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.600
<v Speaker 2>two or three year old cases that I was just

0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.920
<v Speaker 2>hiding every single day on the run, bonded out and

0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:56.360
<v Speaker 2>was supposed to go back for a court date, and

0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:57.880
<v Speaker 2>then just never went back for the court date, and

0:10:57.920 --> 0:10:59.720
<v Speaker 2>so the warrant was out for me, and so I

0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:01.520
<v Speaker 2>was like, you know what, maybe I should just stop running.

0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna call the police on myself and at least

0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.319
<v Speaker 2>I'll be safe. At least in prison, I won't be

0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:10.040
<v Speaker 2>able to use drugs. That's what I thought. At least

0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:14.560
<v Speaker 2>my mom will be like semi feel comfortable knowing that

0:11:14.640 --> 0:11:18.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm like not in an alley, completely thrown away after

0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:21.960
<v Speaker 2>an overdose or something. All these thoughts, Prison's the best

0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:23.920
<v Speaker 2>option for me, That's what I thought. I really believe

0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:24.680
<v Speaker 2>that there.

0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:26.520
<v Speaker 1>Was no part of you in that when your mom

0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:30.959
<v Speaker 1>is playing devil's advocate, When your mom is being firm

0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:34.400
<v Speaker 1>in those boundaries and she's that like freezing outside, she

0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.680
<v Speaker 1>knows it. I can't imagine what she's feeling to be

0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:39.640
<v Speaker 1>able to say that, But is there a part of

0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.160
<v Speaker 1>you that she doesn't love me? That's it. She's done

0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:42.400
<v Speaker 1>with me.

0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.520
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. I thought that for sure. I thought that I

0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.280
<v Speaker 2>believe that there was no hope. I didn't think that

0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:50.400
<v Speaker 2>we were going to have a relationship or that was

0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:52.120
<v Speaker 2>going to heal or anything like that. I thought that

0:11:52.440 --> 0:11:55.480
<v Speaker 2>she had given up on me completely, and I was

0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:57.160
<v Speaker 2>mad at her, as if it was like her fault,

0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.640
<v Speaker 2>as if she was being mean or something along those lines.

0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:01.000
<v Speaker 2>The end of the day, she had to do it

0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:03.160
<v Speaker 2>was best for her. She had gotten to a point

0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:07.200
<v Speaker 2>through my addiction. She'd never touched those drugs, and she

0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.320
<v Speaker 2>didn't have drugs to cope. Every time I messed up,

0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.200
<v Speaker 2>I could just get high and not out and not

0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.480
<v Speaker 2>think about it. She had to deal with it, and

0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.200
<v Speaker 2>like her life, she became depressed. She gained a bunch

0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:22.080
<v Speaker 2>of weight, her work performance completely just diminished. She had

0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:24.600
<v Speaker 2>to get put on medications, like she stopped cleaning the house.

0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Like her life, she was addicted to my addiction, obsessed

0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.160
<v Speaker 2>with it. She was completely codependent, and especially for the

0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.880
<v Speaker 2>first I would say seven years, she would do anything

0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.440
<v Speaker 2>to save her baby, to help me out, anything, because

0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:39.720
<v Speaker 2>I was an adult, but I was still her baby.

0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:41.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And she just.

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.120
<v Speaker 2>Whether it was food, if it was a place to stay,

0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.160
<v Speaker 2>if it was a ride, if it was pay my rent,

0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.880
<v Speaker 2>if it was fond me out, pay for the attorney. Whatever.

0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Mom was always there until she wasn't.

0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.360
<v Speaker 1>And she eventually saw the pattern in someone she started

0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.760
<v Speaker 1>going to like an alanon or exactly is it alan He?

0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.720
<v Speaker 1>Is it all the same for? Is that the okay?

0:13:01.040 --> 0:13:01.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.160
<v Speaker 1>All right? Yeah, my second question, I guess you answered it.

0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Did I think I spent spend the rest of my

0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.600
<v Speaker 1>life in prison? You answered that? All right? All right? Man?

0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:11.720
<v Speaker 1>Let's get into this. We're going to go back to

0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.240
<v Speaker 1>the corn day. What are we doing and describe you

0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.360
<v Speaker 1>were telling us and telling me earlier, like you would

0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:19.240
<v Speaker 1>be ashamed of this.

0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, So I remember there was a point when

0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.880
<v Speaker 2>I guess I was like crashing at this other person's

0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:32.520
<v Speaker 2>house that I would use with. We commit crimes, and

0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:34.800
<v Speaker 2>we were just partners in crime, so to speak. We

0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.640
<v Speaker 2>were both addicted to heroin and no electricity in the

0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:40.920
<v Speaker 2>like nothing there was. It was just a place. It

0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.120
<v Speaker 2>was just shelter really, but there was a church around

0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.360
<v Speaker 2>the corner from his house that was I think it

0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:48.840
<v Speaker 2>was like Tuesdays and Sunday or Saturdays. They would do

0:13:49.600 --> 0:13:50.920
<v Speaker 2>like a I forget what you call it, like a

0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.000
<v Speaker 2>place where people could go get food that didn't have food,

0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.840
<v Speaker 2>and like a food pantry. And I remember I woke

0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.480
<v Speaker 2>up late because I was really high. The food pantries

0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.120
<v Speaker 2>from five am to eight am or something like that.

0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.080
<v Speaker 2>Woke up at seven fifty so I'm like, oh my gosh,

0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.640
<v Speaker 2>I haven't eaten in four days. I need to like hurry,

0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:09.720
<v Speaker 2>I need to hurry and get to the food pantry

0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:11.640
<v Speaker 2>because I have to get some food today. They would

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 2>give you like a little box. You could take some

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:14.400
<v Speaker 2>stuff and you'd have enough food for a.

0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:16.560
<v Speaker 1>Week or so, and you knew you had to eat

0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:17.800
<v Speaker 1>and for four days.

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But like food means nothing when inactive addiction, you're.

0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.160
<v Speaker 1>Are you still drinking water and stuff.

0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:28.720
<v Speaker 2>Still drink water? Yeah? And food, shelter, law, love, None

0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.680
<v Speaker 2>of those things mean anything when your brain is hijacked

0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.480
<v Speaker 2>by a substance like heroin. Like I would if I

0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.200
<v Speaker 2>had twenty dollars, I'm spending twenty dollars on heroin. I

0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:42.320
<v Speaker 2>am not saving a dollar for anything gas in a

0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.520
<v Speaker 2>like nothing. All the money is going on heroin. So

0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:48.520
<v Speaker 2>I just wouldn't eat. And so I get there, and

0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.640
<v Speaker 2>I get there late. They had already shut the doors,

0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:55.280
<v Speaker 2>and there's a couple boxes of canned goods and things

0:14:55.360 --> 0:14:59.440
<v Speaker 2>like that that required cooking. But there's some ears of corn,

0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.600
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, I'm so hungry right now. I

0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:03.360
<v Speaker 2>have to eat these. I have to eat. So I'm

0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 2>going to take a couple of ears of corn and

0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.360
<v Speaker 2>went until an alley because I was embarrassed. I was like,

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 2>I can't eat this corn in front of a shirt.

0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.560
<v Speaker 2>I can't let anybody see me eating a raw ear

0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:14.960
<v Speaker 2>of corn, and I'm like ducked in this alley, like

0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.200
<v Speaker 2>between a garage and a car, as if I'm doing

0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.760
<v Speaker 2>something really bad eating a raw ear of corn, and

0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:24.240
<v Speaker 2>I remember I like almost, I feel like I maybe

0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:25.960
<v Speaker 2>chipped the tooth. I hope, we don't.

0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:30.520
<v Speaker 1>Hope today it's crazy, though, to think that you're eating this,

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:34.560
<v Speaker 1>that you were ashamed, right, but now you're going to

0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.720
<v Speaker 1>eat this, and I'm going to eat this with you,

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 1>and it's an honor to eat this with you. I

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:40.680
<v Speaker 1>sent you a Lincoln Post. She thought it was hilarious,

0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:42.520
<v Speaker 1>but I was like, I can't wait to eat corn.

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I've never been told that by any.

0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:47.600
<v Speaker 1>Corn with you, and you're really good at that. I

0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.440
<v Speaker 1>love corn, By the way, I'm the cop. But how

0:15:50.480 --> 0:15:54.800
<v Speaker 1>does it feel to know ten years ago you were

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:57.320
<v Speaker 1>ashamed of it? But ten years now later it seems

0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:02.040
<v Speaker 1>like you're crowd that you came from this air to

0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:08.080
<v Speaker 1>now you're successful, family, married, author, CEO helping other people

0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:13.080
<v Speaker 1>treating addiction, saving families because what I have learned about addiction,

0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.720
<v Speaker 1>it does affect everybody. How does it feel like to

0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:19.000
<v Speaker 1>know that you're about to eat this but instead of

0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.320
<v Speaker 1>it being like a shameful moment. It's like a proud

0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:26.160
<v Speaker 1>moment on camera, on camera, like people are going to

0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:30.200
<v Speaker 1>be watching this now, You're proud, You're proud.

0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.480
<v Speaker 2>It feels amazing, it's almost It happens a lot. I'm

0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.640
<v Speaker 2>getting goosebumps right now just thinking about it. And it's

0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:37.760
<v Speaker 2>hot in here, You're still getting goosebumps.

0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 1>You are literally getting bumps like crazy.

0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:46.119
<v Speaker 2>There's I don't even know how to put it into words, sometimes,

0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.880
<v Speaker 2>but it happens probably once a week, right, sometimes more,

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.800
<v Speaker 2>sometimes multiple times a day, that I'm not even supposed

0:16:51.800 --> 0:16:54.320
<v Speaker 2>to be here. I'm not I'm talking about on this earth.

0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:56.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm not supposed to be here anymore. Like the things

0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.440
<v Speaker 2>that I went through injecting heroin for ten years straight.

0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:02.920
<v Speaker 2>It was the last couple of years of it. It

0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.080
<v Speaker 2>was fetanyl. The amount of people that are dying from this,

0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.919
<v Speaker 2>The amount of people that I watched die. People I

0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.719
<v Speaker 2>was using the same substances from the same dealer.

0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Did your buddy that you were in the house with

0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:15.200
<v Speaker 1>did he make it?

0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:18.760
<v Speaker 2>No? No? Tim, Yeah no, Tim's not here anymore. There's

0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.200
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate there's so many though I would say I

0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:24.600
<v Speaker 2>don't even know. Probably five hundred people that I know,

0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.639
<v Speaker 2>like relatively close with I don't want to say, like

0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:30.879
<v Speaker 2>really good friends, but cross paths with out there. In

0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:32.959
<v Speaker 2>the ten years that I was out there and then

0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.600
<v Speaker 2>and then just working in addiction treatment and being in

0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.800
<v Speaker 2>the recovery community, thousands Like every day I wake up

0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.240
<v Speaker 2>to somebody that I know is no longer here.

0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:43.639
<v Speaker 1>So it's a very why goes while they were like

0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:45.520
<v Speaker 1>on the recovery, they relapsed.

0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:47.800
<v Speaker 2>You see, it happens quite all. I did it myself

0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.960
<v Speaker 2>the first twenty seven times of getting sober, went back

0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:53.439
<v Speaker 2>out there, and that's when people are very prone to

0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.880
<v Speaker 2>overdose because your your tolerance goes down.

0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:57.880
<v Speaker 1>Overdose three overdose is pretty hot.

0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is scary. So yeah, very, I'm

0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.320
<v Speaker 2>just I'm lucky to be here, grateful.

0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.760
<v Speaker 1>And you don't like no shade, But you don't look

0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:09.400
<v Speaker 1>like what I would imagine even someone that survived hair

0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:12.199
<v Speaker 1>when drug addiction for that long would look like.

0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:14.119
<v Speaker 2>I get that all the time. Yeah, you know, I

0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:16.639
<v Speaker 2>get that all the time. But what is an addict

0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:17.040
<v Speaker 2>look like?

0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.960
<v Speaker 1>I would imagine bad skin, definitely scarring, like bad teeth.

0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:22.800
<v Speaker 1>Your teeth look like not bad at all?

0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.680
<v Speaker 2>My teeth, Yeah, they look I don't know how I'm lucky.

0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.040
<v Speaker 2>I have no adverse health effects. I'm as healthy as

0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.440
<v Speaker 2>can be, and I still have my teeth, So I'm

0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:33.960
<v Speaker 2>very lucky. I did not look like this ten years

0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:35.920
<v Speaker 2>ago when I got sober. I'll tell you that you

0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:36.720
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't let me in.

0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 1>I saw some pictures of you, like keeled over in

0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:41.800
<v Speaker 1>a bathroom, and I was like, it's crazy to look

0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:44.280
<v Speaker 1>at you and those that and all you're standing.

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:48.159
<v Speaker 2>Here, and that was like decent times. Like I'm telling you,

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.520
<v Speaker 2>I was. Those pictures are nothing. When I was on

0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.480
<v Speaker 2>the streets, I didn't shower for weeks, I didn't brush

0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:58.840
<v Speaker 2>my teeth, I didn't eat hair just grown out everywhere,

0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.879
<v Speaker 2>just wealthy clothes. It was bad. It was bad, Like

0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:03.280
<v Speaker 2>I am a.

0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.240
<v Speaker 1>In the first seven years. Your mom would just take

0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:07.720
<v Speaker 1>you back and forgive you and all that.

0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:10.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she was again, she was just obsessed with it.

0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:12.639
<v Speaker 2>She was just scared. She wanted to protect me.

0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, all right, you ready to ready to get into this.

0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:16.600
<v Speaker 1>This is my first time ever.

0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.280
<v Speaker 2>Doing trying to get all these little things off so

0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:19.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't get them in my teeth.

0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:22.240
<v Speaker 1>At first, when you said, hey, we may need toothpicks,

0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:25.280
<v Speaker 1>I was like, yeah, well, we need toothpicks, and I'm

0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:26.879
<v Speaker 1>like yes, And let me just tell you, I am

0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:28.960
<v Speaker 1>one of those people that have to floss every day.

0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.840
<v Speaker 1>My teeth are like really close together, they're like yours.

0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.239
<v Speaker 1>If we don't floss, did you know we would get

0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:35.720
<v Speaker 1>cavities in between teeth?

0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:40.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so I think I got this. Here we go, cheers, cheers,

0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:42.080
<v Speaker 1>there we go. I've never done this.

0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.400
<v Speaker 2>It's not as bad as you think. Yoh.

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.560
<v Speaker 1>This literally tastes like it.

0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Tastes like it tastes just like corn.

0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.560
<v Speaker 1>It actually doesn't. I thought it was gonna be a

0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.480
<v Speaker 1>lot harder. Man, This is not a bad meal.

0:19:58.040 --> 0:19:58.919
<v Speaker 2>I thought this was edible.

0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:01.480
<v Speaker 1>You know what it is? I keep thinking of like

0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:02.880
<v Speaker 1>the Indian corn where it's all hard.

0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.080
<v Speaker 2>We're just gonna say that, like the decorative corn that

0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:06.719
<v Speaker 2>you put up during Thanksgiving and stuff.

0:20:07.119 --> 0:20:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Guys, I'm not gonna lie.

0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:12.040
<v Speaker 2>It tastes pretty good. It's fresh.

0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:15.200
<v Speaker 1>Why does this taste good? Am I chipping?

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:17.040
<v Speaker 2>It's corn? It's fresh corn.

0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:22.720
<v Speaker 1>But honestly, is it because I imagine the hard corn?

0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:25.080
<v Speaker 1>Because it's not. It literally tastes like a regular corn.

0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:28.879
<v Speaker 1>It's sweet. Are we can we get sick from eating it?

0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Wraw loy do people? Is it supposed to be this soft?

0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:34.399
<v Speaker 1>Going to be hard?

0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:38.119
<v Speaker 2>This is how it's supposed to be, guys. Maybe I

0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:38.760
<v Speaker 2>don't know. I hope.

0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm not gonna lie, but this cord is actually not

0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:42.000
<v Speaker 1>that bad.

0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:42.760
<v Speaker 2>It's really good.

0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Man, you were eating it's really good.

0:20:46.000 --> 0:20:47.679
<v Speaker 2>Hey, it got me through a couple more days at

0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:48.000
<v Speaker 2>the time.

0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.200
<v Speaker 1>Look, I got gonna take one bite and done. It's

0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:52.879
<v Speaker 1>not bad. And I don't know if it's because I

0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.320
<v Speaker 1>love corn, but it's not that bad.

0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:57.280
<v Speaker 2>Are we supposed to eat the whole thing?

0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.439
<v Speaker 1>No, you can quit. I take one More'm gonna take

0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:04.919
<v Speaker 1>one more way too. I don't even know you can

0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:05.959
<v Speaker 1>eat corn raw like that.

0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:07.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure a lot of people don't know that.

0:21:07.560 --> 0:21:11.439
<v Speaker 1>But you want to know something. If you're struggling, like

0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:13.359
<v Speaker 1>out there for real and this is what you gotta

0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.760
<v Speaker 1>do to survive, I would say it's actually not that bad.

0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.920
<v Speaker 1>If you love corn, find a cornfield, Yeah that's good.

0:21:19.960 --> 0:21:23.280
<v Speaker 1>You know what, though I heard corn has no nutritional value, guys,

0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.119
<v Speaker 1>but I will rate this as if in all honestly,

0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:28.720
<v Speaker 1>and I don't know if it's because I like corns.

0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:30.919
<v Speaker 1>I would give this like an eight. It does not

0:21:30.960 --> 0:21:31.480
<v Speaker 1>taste bad.

0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:34.240
<v Speaker 2>Corn on the cop right, boiled butter, salt, all that

0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.480
<v Speaker 2>sort of stuff. This literally tastes like that, obviously without

0:21:37.520 --> 0:21:41.479
<v Speaker 2>the butter and the salt, but cold and it's not

0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:44.080
<v Speaker 2>that hard. It's the same texture as corn on the

0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:44.760
<v Speaker 2>cop Yeah.

0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Except for like when you boil, it's a little bit

0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:51.320
<v Speaker 1>more like juicier. But honestly, this is fine. I thought

0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.520
<v Speaker 1>it was gonna be a lot worse. Who knew.

0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, I feel like I'm made a mess.

0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:01.520
<v Speaker 1>That's what we're here for. Yeah, you're good. Yeah, that's

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:03.600
<v Speaker 1>the only reason I'm not killing it because I know

0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:05.800
<v Speaker 1>my teeth. Well, it's a rep I'm.

0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Going to have to by the way, you're good.

0:22:08.560 --> 0:22:14.119
<v Speaker 1>So take me back ten all the way back to

0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:17.000
<v Speaker 1>home life, and we're going to gradually get to the

0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:19.239
<v Speaker 1>dish point. So we're going to go backwards to like,

0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:23.520
<v Speaker 1>single mom, married, middle class poor. What was the home

0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:24.480
<v Speaker 1>environment when I.

0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:25.959
<v Speaker 2>Was a kid. I had to thank you. I had

0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.000
<v Speaker 2>a great life. I had a great childhood. Mom and

0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.200
<v Speaker 2>dad were both there, went to private schools, got straight a's,

0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:35.520
<v Speaker 2>played three sports, went to church twice a week. Yep,

0:22:36.840 --> 0:22:39.440
<v Speaker 2>never saw drugs or alcohol. I would see people have

0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:41.719
<v Speaker 2>drinks at a barbecue or something like that, but like

0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:45.639
<v Speaker 2>addictively never saw it. It never happened in my home.

0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.720
<v Speaker 2>No trauma or abuse or anything like that on paper,

0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:52.920
<v Speaker 2>like the perfect upbringing, I broke up with a girl

0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:55.560
<v Speaker 2>in seventh grade for smoking a cigarette. Okay, Like I

0:22:55.680 --> 0:22:58.200
<v Speaker 2>was obsessed with doing things the right way.

0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:00.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So you were like a good kid, like.

0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:03.879
<v Speaker 2>The really good, literally perfect, like best athlete, smartest kid

0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:08.000
<v Speaker 2>in the school, straight edges, straight edge gets and then.

0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:10.920
<v Speaker 1>Your master's Now, yeah, I was like, how did he

0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:13.920
<v Speaker 1>go from that? Super smart? I was wondering.

0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I went back to school when I got sober,

0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:19.119
<v Speaker 2>but I always enjoyed. I still do. I don't think

0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:20.879
<v Speaker 2>i'll ever stop. I love learning. But I went to

0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:23.520
<v Speaker 2>high school, and when I got to high school, it

0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:25.240
<v Speaker 2>was culture shock for me. It was the first time

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:28.159
<v Speaker 2>ever in my life that I was uncomfortable ever, because like,

0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:31.399
<v Speaker 2>up until fourteen years old, it was it was just

0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:33.760
<v Speaker 2>the same thing. And I was never like taught that

0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:36.120
<v Speaker 2>at some point you're gonna you're gonna meet the real

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:38.800
<v Speaker 2>world and it's not just this like really comfortable, yeah

0:23:39.000 --> 0:23:40.240
<v Speaker 2>upbringing that you've had.

0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:41.879
<v Speaker 1>What happened, they did it in private and put you

0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:42.640
<v Speaker 1>in public or something.

0:23:42.680 --> 0:23:45.000
<v Speaker 2>I stayed in private school, but the private school that

0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:46.320
<v Speaker 2>I was in was like twenty kids. It was a

0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:48.000
<v Speaker 2>very small school. So then when I get to high

0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.200
<v Speaker 2>school and there's a thousand kids at this school. It

0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:53.919
<v Speaker 2>was an all boys, Catholic college prep, extremely competitive school.

0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:56.760
<v Speaker 2>No longer the smartest kid, no longer the best athlete.

0:23:57.359 --> 0:23:59.959
<v Speaker 2>Just felt uncomfortable for the first time ever in my life.

0:24:00.720 --> 0:24:04.720
<v Speaker 2>My father, who I was like, he's the best. If

0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:06.440
<v Speaker 2>I can be half as good as him, or even

0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:09.399
<v Speaker 2>a quarter, I'll consider my entire life of success. My

0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:13.239
<v Speaker 2>father passed away on Father's Day my freshman year, and

0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:15.760
<v Speaker 2>it was quick. It was diagnosed with cancer. I lived

0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:19.320
<v Speaker 2>with him. My parents separated very close to me going

0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:21.240
<v Speaker 2>to high school, and I wanted to live with my dad,

0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:23.520
<v Speaker 2>and so the last couple of years of his life

0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:24.960
<v Speaker 2>it was just him and I. We got even closer

0:24:25.000 --> 0:24:26.679
<v Speaker 2>than we already were, and then all of a sudden,

0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:28.919
<v Speaker 2>you've got cancer. And then a couple months later he

0:24:29.040 --> 0:24:34.760
<v Speaker 2>was gone. So that coupled with all these feelings of

0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:38.280
<v Speaker 2>insecurity from school, it was just the perfect storm where

0:24:38.680 --> 0:24:41.080
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted I wanted to be accepted. I wasn't

0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:44.000
<v Speaker 2>okay with what was happening inside me, and I wasn't okay.

0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:45.760
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know how to identify all these feelings. I

0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:48.359
<v Speaker 2>certainly didn't know how to address them or cope with

0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:49.240
<v Speaker 2>them in a healthy Well.

0:24:49.280 --> 0:24:52.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm like or assessing that there could be a because

0:24:52.880 --> 0:24:55.879
<v Speaker 1>your mom seems like a very active did she see

0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:59.800
<v Speaker 1>like a possible tornado could potentially happen because of like

0:24:59.840 --> 0:25:04.000
<v Speaker 1>the trauma it was like your parents separating, you now

0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:06.720
<v Speaker 1>being very close to your dad, losing your dad and

0:25:06.880 --> 0:25:09.520
<v Speaker 1>going to a new school. That's a lesson. Yeah, I

0:25:09.560 --> 0:25:11.399
<v Speaker 1>don't know. I think from an outside that does look

0:25:11.480 --> 0:25:12.880
<v Speaker 1>like a lot for your kids.

0:25:13.200 --> 0:25:16.760
<v Speaker 2>I think my mom at the time my mom was

0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:19.920
<v Speaker 2>dealing with me, she was with my dad instead of her,

0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:21.720
<v Speaker 2>and so she was already I think she felt like

0:25:21.760 --> 0:25:24.399
<v Speaker 2>she was behind the relationship and she wanted to like

0:25:24.600 --> 0:25:26.879
<v Speaker 2>she wanted to work to get that back then. And

0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:28.960
<v Speaker 2>then I lose my dad, and so now my mom

0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:31.400
<v Speaker 2>even more is okay, now I'm the parent by default?

0:25:31.520 --> 0:25:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah exactly, Yeah, respectfully.

0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:36.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, And so I think at that time she

0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:39.399
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be my friend more than my mom Okay,

0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:40.920
<v Speaker 2>if that makes any sense.

0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:43.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because she's trying to earn that like exactly the

0:25:43.400 --> 0:25:45.320
<v Speaker 1>points that he had, which makes sense.

0:25:45.119 --> 0:25:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Like a lot exactly. And it's not that she was

0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:49.560
<v Speaker 2>doing like I love my mom, She's an amazing mom,

0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:52.159
<v Speaker 2>but like the things that I was doing when she

0:25:52.200 --> 0:25:54.440
<v Speaker 2>did find out about them, drinking, I got a DUI

0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:56.280
<v Speaker 2>other day I turned sixteen, like the very first.

0:25:56.320 --> 0:25:57.920
<v Speaker 1>That was going to be my next question. So when

0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:03.440
<v Speaker 1>did alcohol and outcohol or possibly drugs entered the picture.

0:26:04.080 --> 0:26:06.840
<v Speaker 2>It started with smoking cigarettes. It's funny because I well

0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:09.320
<v Speaker 2>a girl for smoking cigarettes. So like the kids at

0:26:09.359 --> 0:26:11.880
<v Speaker 2>the table at the lunch table that I knew smoked

0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:14.600
<v Speaker 2>before my dad died, I wanted to I didn't even

0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:16.480
<v Speaker 2>want to look at them. I just wanted to avoid them,

0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:19.000
<v Speaker 2>like those are the bad kids. And after he died,

0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:21.679
<v Speaker 2>I found myself like I need to go sit with

0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:23.679
<v Speaker 2>them because I need to be accepted. I was a

0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:26.000
<v Speaker 2>new kid in a huge school and I just needed

0:26:26.000 --> 0:26:27.320
<v Speaker 2>to be accepted. The only thing I had to do

0:26:27.400 --> 0:26:27.960
<v Speaker 2>was inhale.

0:26:28.160 --> 0:26:31.359
<v Speaker 1>But I'm curious now, if you're why did you not

0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:34.000
<v Speaker 1>feel that you would be accepted sitting at a table

0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:38.439
<v Speaker 1>of people that weren't doing drugs versus approach of kids

0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:38.920
<v Speaker 1>that were.

0:26:40.320 --> 0:26:42.119
<v Speaker 2>I played sports in high school too, and so I

0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:45.280
<v Speaker 2>already had that crew. But when my dad died, it

0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:49.520
<v Speaker 2>left a hole in my heart like just a I

0:26:49.520 --> 0:26:51.240
<v Speaker 2>don't know how to explain it other than there was

0:26:51.320 --> 0:26:53.159
<v Speaker 2>just a huge void and a huge vacance, and I

0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:56.439
<v Speaker 2>just needed more. I needed to fill it with something.

0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:58.520
<v Speaker 2>And I tried to fill it with anything that I

0:26:58.560 --> 0:27:01.399
<v Speaker 2>possibly could to take my mind off of it and

0:27:01.520 --> 0:27:05.760
<v Speaker 2>bring on some sort of feel good chemical, anything, any

0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:08.320
<v Speaker 2>short shot of dopamine in my brain. And so I

0:27:08.359 --> 0:27:10.800
<v Speaker 2>just I wanted the rebel. I felt like rebellious for

0:27:10.800 --> 0:27:11.720
<v Speaker 2>the first time in my life.

0:27:11.760 --> 0:27:13.520
<v Speaker 1>So I started with suthing and where you feeling your

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:15.960
<v Speaker 1>mom like from that perspective, because now at this point,

0:27:15.960 --> 0:27:18.200
<v Speaker 1>you know that they separated right than you lose your dad.

0:27:18.480 --> 0:27:22.480
<v Speaker 1>Your dad probably, i'm guessing, didn't show any animosity towards

0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:24.480
<v Speaker 1>your mom. Did you know why they separated?

0:27:25.080 --> 0:27:28.600
<v Speaker 2>I think no, nothing crazy bad happened. I just like

0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:31.160
<v Speaker 2>grew apart. Yeah, I grew apart. Okay, that's a great

0:27:31.160 --> 0:27:31.800
<v Speaker 2>way to put it.

0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I'm just wondering where the rebellion. Just trying to curious.

0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:38.880
<v Speaker 2>But I don't know. Okay, I don't know. I really

0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:40.760
<v Speaker 2>don't know. I think I saw. I think I saw

0:27:41.119 --> 0:27:43.600
<v Speaker 2>there was something that was attractive about it, and I

0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:48.240
<v Speaker 2>saw these even though originally I had seen these guys

0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:51.000
<v Speaker 2>and I thought that they were like not cool kids.

0:27:51.240 --> 0:27:53.760
<v Speaker 2>I saw going to a football game. They had the

0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:56.800
<v Speaker 2>girls around them, you know, and like upperclassmen. I would

0:27:56.800 --> 0:27:58.919
<v Speaker 2>see doing certain things, and I was like, that's cool.

0:27:59.040 --> 0:28:01.840
<v Speaker 2>It come if you do it, was copeler. It comes

0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 2>with something. Yea. It's not just like socially acceptable, it's expected,

0:28:05.680 --> 0:28:07.280
<v Speaker 2>and so I might as well get into it now

0:28:07.320 --> 0:28:11.120
<v Speaker 2>and be the younger kid that is the cool kid,

0:28:11.520 --> 0:28:14.720
<v Speaker 2>because I saw apperclassmen doing it. So started with cigarettes,

0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:16.840
<v Speaker 2>but you hang out in a barbershop long enough, you'll

0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:19.640
<v Speaker 2>get a haircut, and these kids were. These kids were

0:28:19.720 --> 0:28:21.879
<v Speaker 2>drinking and they were smoked. So it just very quickly

0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:24.840
<v Speaker 2>freshman year, all of it started happening. But I never

0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:28.679
<v Speaker 2>at that age went absolutely crazy with it, like I

0:28:28.680 --> 0:28:30.000
<v Speaker 2>would push it and I would do it more than

0:28:30.000 --> 0:28:32.359
<v Speaker 2>anybody else would do. Like I was the wild guy

0:28:32.400 --> 0:28:33.520
<v Speaker 2>in high school, that's for sure.

0:28:34.000 --> 0:28:37.919
<v Speaker 1>So even amongst that pack, you became like the leader issue.

0:28:37.960 --> 0:28:39.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, of that pack real fast.

0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:41.600
<v Speaker 2>Everything I've ever done in my life always taken to

0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:44.800
<v Speaker 2>an extreme. Everything doesn't matter if it's like good things

0:28:45.440 --> 0:28:46.160
<v Speaker 2>or not good things.

0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:49.600
<v Speaker 1>I guess you could see, like maybe early on that

0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:52.640
<v Speaker 1>maybe you had some kind of like leadership power, but

0:28:52.720 --> 0:28:56.560
<v Speaker 1>maybe at that point you or it was probably hard

0:28:56.560 --> 0:28:59.320
<v Speaker 1>to recognize because even to hear that you jumped into

0:28:59.400 --> 0:29:02.960
<v Speaker 1>a different background and you became the leader, or you

0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:06.480
<v Speaker 1>were like, I'm going to be the if they're drinking two,

0:29:06.520 --> 0:29:09.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to drink three, I'm going to be your

0:29:09.400 --> 0:29:11.280
<v Speaker 1>competitive leadership.

0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:13.160
<v Speaker 2>Speor everything in everything.

0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:15.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, which I guess in that case, I guess a

0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:18.080
<v Speaker 1>leader in the wrong swimming pool could be very dangerous.

0:29:17.760 --> 0:29:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Right it can. Yeah, And I'll tell you what do

0:29:20.080 --> 0:29:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I learned a lot. I learned so many different things

0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:27.280
<v Speaker 2>about people, just about human beings and like what at

0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:31.479
<v Speaker 2>that point to tell you any specific thing, just just

0:29:31.720 --> 0:29:35.000
<v Speaker 2>watching people, just listening to people, seeing how they see,

0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:38.080
<v Speaker 2>watching what other mistakes people made. Truly, that's been one

0:29:38.120 --> 0:29:41.200
<v Speaker 2>of the biggest things in my life in recovery, in

0:29:41.320 --> 0:29:45.440
<v Speaker 2>business and an active addiction is watching other people make mistakes,

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:47.200
<v Speaker 2>not just my own mistakes, but I learned from other

0:29:47.240 --> 0:29:49.680
<v Speaker 2>people more than I do for myself. Okay, so just

0:29:49.720 --> 0:29:51.760
<v Speaker 2>watching how other people move and I listen, you know,

0:29:51.800 --> 0:29:54.560
<v Speaker 2>and I just I listened to you. I continue to

0:29:54.640 --> 0:29:58.480
<v Speaker 2>this day. Just focus on what everybody else is doing.

0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:00.400
<v Speaker 2>I think about what everybody else is doing, watch, and

0:30:00.400 --> 0:30:03.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm watching the landscape of how everything is happening in

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:06.520
<v Speaker 2>the world and constantly processing things in my mind. So

0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:09.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. It's can't put an exact answer on it,

0:30:10.000 --> 0:30:11.280
<v Speaker 2>but I did learn a lot from people.

0:30:11.480 --> 0:30:14.440
<v Speaker 1>I would imagine there's a lot of vulnerability in that space, really,

0:30:14.600 --> 0:30:17.280
<v Speaker 1>because at that point when people are drinking and doing drugs,

0:30:17.320 --> 0:30:20.320
<v Speaker 1>are they talking about real things? Are they talking about

0:30:20.600 --> 0:30:23.760
<v Speaker 1>just fun times? I don't know, because I've never really

0:30:23.760 --> 0:30:24.600
<v Speaker 1>been in those groups.

0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:28.920
<v Speaker 2>I can't say that it was ever really like deep conversations.

0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:32.040
<v Speaker 2>It was probably mostly just fun times, meaningless conversations.

0:30:32.160 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 1>So how does your mom respond to your first DUI?

0:30:36.040 --> 0:30:38.600
<v Speaker 2>A slap on the wrist. Flap on the wrist. Man,

0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:42.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm not happy about this, but you're better than this, essentially,

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:43.760
<v Speaker 2>is you know how the conversation went?

0:30:44.040 --> 0:30:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Did she was it her first time finding out about

0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:46.720
<v Speaker 1>you and alcohol?

0:30:50.560 --> 0:30:52.800
<v Speaker 2>She may have known that I had a few drinks

0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:54.120
<v Speaker 2>here and there, but she didn't know that I was

0:30:54.200 --> 0:30:56.680
<v Speaker 2>drinking every weekend at this point. She didn't know that

0:30:56.680 --> 0:30:58.720
<v Speaker 2>I was smoking weed every day. I started the deal

0:30:58.800 --> 0:30:59.680
<v Speaker 2>with cocaine.

0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:01.640
<v Speaker 1>A little bit too in high school.

0:31:01.880 --> 0:31:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, very early. So I remember getting

0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:10.400
<v Speaker 2>picked up from the police station, went to court. She

0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:14.240
<v Speaker 2>paid for the attorney. They gave me a like driving privileges.

0:31:14.280 --> 0:31:17.240
<v Speaker 2>You can go to school and practice and work and

0:31:17.280 --> 0:31:19.440
<v Speaker 2>then you have to come home. And I'm like, okay,

0:31:19.640 --> 0:31:22.800
<v Speaker 2>that's I get high and drunk before and after school,

0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:25.960
<v Speaker 2>like on property, same with practice.

0:31:26.240 --> 0:31:29.960
<v Speaker 1>So this is property. This is a private school.

0:31:31.080 --> 0:31:32.760
<v Speaker 2>It's an amazing school.

0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:35.080
<v Speaker 1>Too, and it's Catholic. But these kids are doing this

0:31:35.200 --> 0:31:36.600
<v Speaker 1>on property.

0:31:36.280 --> 0:31:40.320
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely absolutely, OK. And it wasn't just that school. It's

0:31:40.400 --> 0:31:43.120
<v Speaker 2>kids nowadays. Yeah, And that was in two thousand and

0:31:43.160 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 2>two when I was on.

0:31:44.280 --> 0:31:46.760
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that the kids that originally do this

0:31:47.240 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 1>is it because they grow up in a home where

0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:51.880
<v Speaker 1>they see drugs and alcohol, Because in your case, it

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:53.600
<v Speaker 1>didn't seem like you saw a lot of it. Did

0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:55.040
<v Speaker 1>you see your parents smoke or drink?

0:31:55.120 --> 0:31:56.360
<v Speaker 2>No? I never saw them smoke.

0:31:56.360 --> 0:31:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Especially if you broke with your girlfriend in seventh grade,

0:31:58.440 --> 0:32:00.640
<v Speaker 1>I'd say the bar was pretty high. But for your

0:32:00.680 --> 0:32:04.640
<v Speaker 1>peers at that time, were they were they do you

0:32:04.680 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 1>know if they were exposed to like parents that drink

0:32:07.160 --> 0:32:10.880
<v Speaker 1>or smoke or turbulence, because if they're going to private

0:32:10.880 --> 0:32:13.000
<v Speaker 1>school too, I'd imagine they come from decent home.

0:32:13.120 --> 0:32:15.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, there was. I think again, I think I

0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:18.240
<v Speaker 2>don't think I should say this. I think that there's

0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:21.240
<v Speaker 2>probably some people that had some things going on that

0:32:21.280 --> 0:32:23.120
<v Speaker 2>I had no clue about to this day, still don't

0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:25.000
<v Speaker 2>know about, and maybe that's why they did what they did.

0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:27.760
<v Speaker 2>But I think for the most part, at that age,

0:32:27.920 --> 0:32:31.120
<v Speaker 2>it was because that's just what you do. And I

0:32:31.160 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 2>and this is like why it's so important for me

0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:35.240
<v Speaker 2>to speak at schools is because I've been there. I've

0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:37.800
<v Speaker 2>felt that, I know the pressure that comes with being

0:32:37.960 --> 0:32:41.000
<v Speaker 2>a young person in our world today, and it's only

0:32:41.040 --> 0:32:43.360
<v Speaker 2>gotten worse since I was in school twenty years ago,

0:32:43.560 --> 0:32:46.880
<v Speaker 2>so much worse than it is today. The first, the

0:32:46.960 --> 0:32:50.520
<v Speaker 2>average age of people using substances is getting younger and

0:32:50.560 --> 0:32:53.360
<v Speaker 2>younger every single year. The average age of people using

0:32:53.840 --> 0:32:57.280
<v Speaker 2>like dangerous illicit substances is younger and younger. The average

0:32:57.320 --> 0:32:59.480
<v Speaker 2>age of people having sex for the first time is

0:32:59.480 --> 0:33:03.600
<v Speaker 2>getting people. People are there's this message that you have

0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:05.920
<v Speaker 2>to look a certain way, act a certain way, have

0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:08.920
<v Speaker 2>a certain hairstyle, close whatever it might be, say certain things,

0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:11.560
<v Speaker 2>listen to certain music and if you don't, then you're

0:33:11.600 --> 0:33:13.320
<v Speaker 2>not going to be part of our crew.

0:33:13.600 --> 0:33:13.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:16.800
<v Speaker 2>And in a world today where everything is social media,

0:33:16.880 --> 0:33:21.200
<v Speaker 2>so the need for approval is higher than it's ever been.

0:33:21.520 --> 0:33:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:33:21.920 --> 0:33:24.880
<v Speaker 2>And I love doing the primary prevention in schools to

0:33:24.920 --> 0:33:28.000
<v Speaker 2>tell kids like, you don't need anybody's approval, You're perfect

0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:30.120
<v Speaker 2>exactly because if I would have been okay, everybody goes

0:33:30.160 --> 0:33:31.440
<v Speaker 2>through things in life, right, but I would have been

0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:35.920
<v Speaker 2>okay with that stress, high school, peer pressure, grades, performance

0:33:35.960 --> 0:33:37.760
<v Speaker 2>on the court or on the field, whatever it is,

0:33:38.080 --> 0:33:41.240
<v Speaker 2>losing loved ones. If I would have known how to

0:33:41.280 --> 0:33:44.120
<v Speaker 2>deal with that the right way, I wouldn't have felt

0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:47.120
<v Speaker 2>the need to seek another sub to seek something else

0:33:47.360 --> 0:33:50.880
<v Speaker 2>or other people. It wasn't even substances at first, it

0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:54.040
<v Speaker 2>was just approval. I always say my first addiction was

0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:57.920
<v Speaker 2>your approval had nothing to do with substances. I just

0:33:58.040 --> 0:34:00.840
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be accepted because I couldn't at myself. So

0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:03.840
<v Speaker 2>I always try to tell kids like, you're accept yourself.

0:34:03.840 --> 0:34:06.080
<v Speaker 2>You're fine, and find the friends that accept you for

0:34:06.120 --> 0:34:06.560
<v Speaker 2>who you are.

0:34:07.200 --> 0:34:09.160
<v Speaker 1>When you say accept yourself, I would imagine for a

0:34:09.239 --> 0:34:12.520
<v Speaker 1>kid that's even a tough it's simple as But as

0:34:12.560 --> 0:34:14.960
<v Speaker 1>simple as that sounds like, what would they even look like? Okay,

0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:16.640
<v Speaker 1>I accept myself? What do you mean? I accept that?

0:34:16.680 --> 0:34:19.759
<v Speaker 1>I like corn On the cop is that? But if

0:34:19.800 --> 0:34:21.920
<v Speaker 1>I was a teenager, how would you relay that to me?

0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:25.480
<v Speaker 2>I would talk about a who are you surrounding yourself with?

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:29.239
<v Speaker 2>Because if your friends around you are trying to tell

0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:31.239
<v Speaker 2>you you need to do certain things to be you,

0:34:31.400 --> 0:34:33.160
<v Speaker 2>to change yourself from the way that you wake up

0:34:33.200 --> 0:34:34.920
<v Speaker 2>in the morning, if you need to do something different

0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:37.080
<v Speaker 2>than that to alter your mood, your mind, or your appearance,

0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:39.839
<v Speaker 2>if your friends are telling you that those are very

0:34:39.840 --> 0:34:42.279
<v Speaker 2>good friends. Like my friends today, they love me for

0:34:42.360 --> 0:34:44.640
<v Speaker 2>exactly who I am, the way that I am, how

0:34:44.680 --> 0:34:47.319
<v Speaker 2>I am, I don't they don't. It doesn't matter if

0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:49.120
<v Speaker 2>I bring a bottle to the party or not bring

0:34:49.160 --> 0:34:51.480
<v Speaker 2>a bottle or wear a certain like. My friends love

0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:55.000
<v Speaker 2>me for me. Yeah, you don't see that very often

0:34:55.120 --> 0:34:56.080
<v Speaker 2>in high school.

0:34:56.280 --> 0:35:00.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. In your case though, playing Devil's there's a couple

0:35:00.239 --> 0:35:02.120
<v Speaker 1>of things. My mom used to say this when I

0:35:02.200 --> 0:35:04.560
<v Speaker 1>was younger, all the time, show me your friends and

0:35:04.600 --> 0:35:07.200
<v Speaker 1>I tell you who you are. That was my most

0:35:07.200 --> 0:35:09.400
<v Speaker 1>favorite thing. Let's go see your friends. I'll tell you

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:11.919
<v Speaker 1>exactly who you are. That's one true. But I think

0:35:12.000 --> 0:35:14.160
<v Speaker 1>acceptance is tricky because when you have people I know

0:35:14.200 --> 0:35:17.719
<v Speaker 1>you just said, oh, my friends right now, they accept you.

0:35:17.760 --> 0:35:20.600
<v Speaker 1>But now, when you have friends that really care about you,

0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:23.480
<v Speaker 1>they're holding you to a certain standard. Absolutely, So if

0:35:23.480 --> 0:35:25.480
<v Speaker 1>you went right now home and you pulled out a

0:35:25.520 --> 0:35:27.719
<v Speaker 1>bottle with your whole cruel friends, what's going to happen.

0:35:27.760 --> 0:35:30.840
<v Speaker 1>They're not going to accept you. Do you get what

0:35:30.840 --> 0:35:31.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying?

0:35:31.320 --> 0:35:32.120
<v Speaker 2>I do. I do.

0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:34.359
<v Speaker 1>So that's where it gets tricky when you say that.

0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:36.520
<v Speaker 2>But that was the second thing. I was going to

0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:38.640
<v Speaker 2>say that not only accept me for who I am,

0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:40.840
<v Speaker 2>but hold me accountable. That was going to be. That

0:35:41.120 --> 0:35:43.399
<v Speaker 2>was literally you said it. You said it now, it's

0:35:43.400 --> 0:35:48.040
<v Speaker 2>a one minute but it's the truth because my friend

0:35:48.080 --> 0:35:51.360
<v Speaker 2>my friends do hold me me accountable to a certain standard,

0:35:51.360 --> 0:35:53.200
<v Speaker 2>and I do the same thing for my friends too.

0:35:53.400 --> 0:35:55.239
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that's part of what being a good

0:35:55.280 --> 0:35:59.520
<v Speaker 1>friend is is accept accepting, but with accountability to be

0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:00.440
<v Speaker 1>your high self.

0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:03.640
<v Speaker 2>I think that's a responsibility of a friend. I think

0:36:03.640 --> 0:36:05.880
<v Speaker 2>that's I think that's one of the greatest responsibility of

0:36:05.880 --> 0:36:07.799
<v Speaker 2>a true friend, a good friend. The people that i'm

0:36:07.920 --> 0:36:10.440
<v Speaker 2>and it's not I went from having hundreds and hundreds

0:36:10.440 --> 0:36:13.200
<v Speaker 2>of people in early recovery that I would associate with

0:36:13.239 --> 0:36:15.319
<v Speaker 2>and be around, and I would say, I always say

0:36:15.600 --> 0:36:17.600
<v Speaker 2>four quarters is better than one hundred pennies. I have

0:36:18.840 --> 0:36:21.960
<v Speaker 2>a few, really, some people are in different countries, some

0:36:21.960 --> 0:36:25.200
<v Speaker 2>people are in different states, but really close friends that

0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:27.160
<v Speaker 2>I see and I don't really hang out socially. I

0:36:27.160 --> 0:36:28.680
<v Speaker 2>don't do that a lot. I'm with my family and

0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:29.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm at work, and.

0:36:29.480 --> 0:36:32.840
<v Speaker 1>You go to bed early. I saw his LinkedIn profile. Guys,

0:36:32.880 --> 0:36:35.560
<v Speaker 1>if you want to know even more stuff about Matt,

0:36:35.760 --> 0:36:37.920
<v Speaker 1>go on Matt Bell on LinkedIn. I don't know if

0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:40.640
<v Speaker 1>you have social media, yeah, yeah, all of them. Well

0:36:41.960 --> 0:36:45.600
<v Speaker 1>you can follow us, follow me everywhere Matt Bell. But but yeah,

0:36:45.640 --> 0:36:48.040
<v Speaker 1>I do stalk his his LinkedIn. But I'd be learning

0:36:48.080 --> 0:36:50.480
<v Speaker 1>a lot. You talk about also making sure that you're

0:36:50.520 --> 0:36:54.160
<v Speaker 1>in bed by a certain time. Because I saw this,

0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:55.920
<v Speaker 1>you said this, and I told my homeboy this the

0:36:55.960 --> 0:37:01.040
<v Speaker 1>other day. Nothing good happens outside after ten and I

0:37:01.080 --> 0:37:04.279
<v Speaker 1>was like, actually, he's totally right. If you're trying to

0:37:04.320 --> 0:37:07.520
<v Speaker 1>be productive, nothing good is probably going to happen. It's

0:37:07.520 --> 0:37:08.440
<v Speaker 1>just distraction hours.

0:37:08.480 --> 0:37:11.439
<v Speaker 2>Show me something transformational that happens after ten pm. Yeah

0:37:11.520 --> 0:37:14.920
<v Speaker 2>outside outside of ten yeah outside yeah outside yeah, absolutely,

0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:17.239
<v Speaker 2>outside and find some good things.

0:37:17.320 --> 0:37:17.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:20.000
<v Speaker 2>It's just always, it's just it's chaos my home.

0:37:20.080 --> 0:37:22.360
<v Speaker 1>My I was talking to my friend and he's very productive,

0:37:22.360 --> 0:37:24.000
<v Speaker 1>and he goes, I think I'm going to try Adderall

0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:27.600
<v Speaker 1>and I go to him. I was like Adderall No,

0:37:27.760 --> 0:37:29.560
<v Speaker 1>and he'say, I think I'm going to try Adderall again.

0:37:29.640 --> 0:37:32.319
<v Speaker 1>I was like, no, I saw this post by this

0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:35.920
<v Speaker 1>guy that I watch a lot, and he says, you

0:37:35.960 --> 0:37:39.000
<v Speaker 1>should just get more sleep, and nothing good happens after

0:37:39.040 --> 0:37:40.960
<v Speaker 1>ten pm. He's I don't think you get what I'm

0:37:41.040 --> 0:37:43.000
<v Speaker 1>using adderall for. I'm like, no, I totally get it.

0:37:43.000 --> 0:37:45.080
<v Speaker 1>You're trying to be more focused. You could be more

0:37:45.080 --> 0:37:48.480
<v Speaker 1>focused if you get at an adequate amount of sleep.

0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:50.640
<v Speaker 1>If he gets up at four am, I said, you

0:37:50.640 --> 0:37:53.040
<v Speaker 1>should definitely be in bed by eight pm. And that

0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:55.080
<v Speaker 1>was my response, and it was because it's.

0:37:55.000 --> 0:37:56.279
<v Speaker 2>Like he gets up at four he's got to go

0:37:56.280 --> 0:37:56.839
<v Speaker 2>to sleep eight.

0:37:57.040 --> 0:38:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're getting up at four that is why, because

0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:03.040
<v Speaker 1>you cannot get up at four am. And I get it.

0:38:03.040 --> 0:38:06.279
<v Speaker 1>We would push ourselves, but thinking that adderall is the

0:38:06.320 --> 0:38:09.640
<v Speaker 1>solution for something that your body can actually give you.

0:38:09.719 --> 0:38:11.840
<v Speaker 1>And that's what I swear a true story. This was

0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:14.080
<v Speaker 1>like two days ago, very productive. But I was just like,

0:38:15.600 --> 0:38:17.360
<v Speaker 1>but I used your LinkedIn posts.

0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:19.400
<v Speaker 2>That's awesome. I appreciate that makes me. That makes me

0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:21.160
<v Speaker 2>feel really good because that's why I make those posts.

0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:22.440
<v Speaker 2>And I hope that other people see that sort of

0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:25.960
<v Speaker 2>stuff too. I remember a probation office, actually a probation

0:38:26.000 --> 0:38:29.520
<v Speaker 2>officer gave me all these when I was on probation

0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:32.160
<v Speaker 2>got out of jail. All these certain be in the

0:38:32.200 --> 0:38:35.680
<v Speaker 2>house by ten, don't go to bars, don't hang out

0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:39.799
<v Speaker 2>with anybody else that's committing crimes, all these rules. At

0:38:39.840 --> 0:38:42.239
<v Speaker 2>the time, it felt like an absolute punishment. I was like,

0:38:42.480 --> 0:38:44.600
<v Speaker 2>this is terrible. I don't want to do any of

0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:47.080
<v Speaker 2>this stuff. This is absolutely this is if I had

0:38:47.080 --> 0:38:49.279
<v Speaker 2>to live by these rules, this will be the worst

0:38:49.360 --> 0:38:49.839
<v Speaker 2>life ever.

0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:53.920
<v Speaker 1>And did you in your brain say, okay, this is

0:38:53.960 --> 0:38:58.560
<v Speaker 1>what a lame person? Yes for Peray, No, I see

0:38:58.600 --> 0:39:00.719
<v Speaker 1>people do this if you're straight up. They're like, oh,

0:39:00.800 --> 0:39:03.480
<v Speaker 1>you're straight, you're corny, you don't have a life, you're lame.

0:39:04.120 --> 0:39:07.239
<v Speaker 1>But look at what a corny, lame life looks like.

0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:10.680
<v Speaker 1>You're a CEO, you own multiple properties. I'd imagine you

0:39:10.719 --> 0:39:14.840
<v Speaker 1>have a staff, you provide and protect for your family,

0:39:15.560 --> 0:39:17.920
<v Speaker 1>and you're being held accountable and you hold other people accountable.

0:39:18.000 --> 0:39:21.200
<v Speaker 1>And if that's what lame or corny looks like, I

0:39:21.239 --> 0:39:22.120
<v Speaker 1>love it.

0:39:22.200 --> 0:39:23.920
<v Speaker 2>I love it. Call me lamb. I don't care. I

0:39:23.960 --> 0:39:25.800
<v Speaker 2>adhere to all those rules today.

0:39:25.960 --> 0:39:28.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, without probabi, no probation.

0:39:28.640 --> 0:39:31.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm still living by And I looked at that. I'm

0:39:31.160 --> 0:39:34.800
<v Speaker 2>like and every other successful person that I know, every

0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:38.040
<v Speaker 2>other successful person or just like happy person that's like

0:39:38.160 --> 0:39:42.360
<v Speaker 2>truly happy their core like at peace and they're serene.

0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:45.239
<v Speaker 2>They adhere to these rules too. Like I didn't really

0:39:45.280 --> 0:39:48.200
<v Speaker 2>think about that, And I'm like, man, that's wild, it's

0:39:48.239 --> 0:39:50.000
<v Speaker 2>really wi. He wasn't giving me a punishment, he was

0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:51.600
<v Speaker 2>giving me a recipe for success.

0:39:51.800 --> 0:39:54.640
<v Speaker 1>But I like that. You can in a non healthy

0:39:54.680 --> 0:39:57.359
<v Speaker 1>state look at that list and go, oh, corny, what

0:39:57.440 --> 0:40:00.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of life is this? And then in a healthy steak,

0:40:00.400 --> 0:40:02.719
<v Speaker 1>oh, oh my god, this is a beautiful. It's all perspective,

0:40:02.800 --> 0:40:05.319
<v Speaker 1>like eating this corn and shame and now eating it

0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:12.160
<v Speaker 1>in this like I've survival and I've what's the word thrived. Yeah,

0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:14.000
<v Speaker 1>that's pretty interesting.

0:40:14.239 --> 0:40:14.800
<v Speaker 2>It's nuts.

0:40:15.200 --> 0:40:18.759
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's nuts. It is okay, going back. So your

0:40:18.800 --> 0:40:21.800
<v Speaker 1>mom gives you the slap on the wrist for you drinking.

0:40:22.280 --> 0:40:25.600
<v Speaker 1>So you're doing the weed, you're doing cocaine. You now

0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:28.160
<v Speaker 1>have your first du wife. But it doesn't seem like

0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:30.600
<v Speaker 1>you got your I'm Jamaican. My mom would have been

0:40:30.600 --> 0:40:32.840
<v Speaker 1>like annihilated. I would you would be going to my funeral,

0:40:33.880 --> 0:40:38.000
<v Speaker 1>Like what IMMI? Grandparents are hilarious. If you're a child

0:40:38.000 --> 0:40:40.919
<v Speaker 1>of any type of immigrant, you already know that you're

0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:45.200
<v Speaker 1>just not you're not even returning home police like just

0:40:45.280 --> 0:40:49.319
<v Speaker 1>keep me here, do't let me go back to them.

0:40:50.120 --> 0:40:53.720
<v Speaker 1>But no, okay, so she's she's earning your your cold points.

0:40:54.120 --> 0:40:56.600
<v Speaker 1>It seemed though, like growing up she probably was a

0:40:56.640 --> 0:41:00.000
<v Speaker 1>little stricter. So but maybe there is also a little

0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:03.000
<v Speaker 1>leniency because she knows in the back of her mind

0:41:03.000 --> 0:41:04.040
<v Speaker 1>that you lost your father.

0:41:04.480 --> 0:41:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she doesn't want to be too hard.

0:41:06.080 --> 0:41:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Too hard, Okay, So life prevails. You're going through high school,

0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:13.520
<v Speaker 1>where does the harder drugs get in.

0:41:13.320 --> 0:41:15.960
<v Speaker 2>Went to college graduates. So I graduated that that school

0:41:16.000 --> 0:41:16.719
<v Speaker 2>with a four point zero.

0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:19.200
<v Speaker 1>Even as a little ALKI person, I.

0:41:19.360 --> 0:41:21.200
<v Speaker 2>Never had any consequences, That's what I'm.

0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:23.000
<v Speaker 1>But you were also addicted either then.

0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:25.359
<v Speaker 2>No, I wasn't addicted, but I was like the part

0:41:25.440 --> 0:41:26.920
<v Speaker 2>You go talk to anybody I went to school with

0:41:26.960 --> 0:41:29.040
<v Speaker 2>that knew me back then, They'll be like, yeah, Matt

0:41:29.080 --> 0:41:32.360
<v Speaker 2>was wild. He was the part, the partier in the

0:41:32.400 --> 0:41:35.120
<v Speaker 2>school and not just my school, like my whole town.

0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:37.360
<v Speaker 1>But how are you four point zero? And I'm guessing

0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:38.400
<v Speaker 1>this is a small town.

0:41:38.960 --> 0:41:42.120
<v Speaker 2>It's not a it's the fourth biggest town in Ohio.

0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, but you were the you were the most.

0:41:46.560 --> 0:41:49.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, nothing, nothing compared to La to them.

0:41:49.120 --> 0:41:52.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, so it's Ohio. But you were the king

0:41:52.680 --> 0:41:55.440
<v Speaker 1>of the scene. But I'm a little confused. So how

0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:57.279
<v Speaker 1>are you able to maintain a four point Oh? Is

0:41:57.320 --> 0:41:59.600
<v Speaker 1>your mom holding some kind of I'm just really.

0:41:59.360 --> 0:42:03.839
<v Speaker 2>Good at balance, at managing chaos. I always have been.

0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:06.800
<v Speaker 2>I've been really good in my life at managing chaos.

0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:08.320
<v Speaker 2>I think that's why I survived my addiction.

0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:14.040
<v Speaker 1>I think you have natural equalities of a leader. Thank you,

0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:17.200
<v Speaker 1>because I think that to be an entrepreneur, or to

0:42:17.280 --> 0:42:19.640
<v Speaker 1>be a leader, you have to be able to be

0:42:19.719 --> 0:42:23.080
<v Speaker 1>the calm in the storm. You can't show those emotions.

0:42:23.120 --> 0:42:25.239
<v Speaker 1>If you were to panic right now in front of

0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:29.719
<v Speaker 1>your team, the entire team would question everything. Right, So,

0:42:29.800 --> 0:42:33.840
<v Speaker 1>say you found out bank accounts are clai, payrolls do

0:42:33.920 --> 0:42:37.160
<v Speaker 1>on Friday? Right, whatever reasons, cash flow mount everest hits.

0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:39.120
<v Speaker 1>You could never turn to your staff and be like,

0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:43.520
<v Speaker 1>so that's what I mean by there's this throughout your

0:42:43.520 --> 0:42:46.880
<v Speaker 1>whole life. You could see that there's this natural born leader, right?

0:42:47.160 --> 0:42:49.479
<v Speaker 1>Do you see it? Am I just pointing it out? Okay?

0:42:49.640 --> 0:42:51.400
<v Speaker 2>I love the pressure.

0:42:51.480 --> 0:42:55.360
<v Speaker 1>I thrive in pressure, maintain a four point Oh that's geez.

0:42:55.480 --> 0:42:57.560
<v Speaker 1>But you must be really good at school too.

0:42:58.120 --> 0:43:02.399
<v Speaker 2>Are you excelled? Yes? And yes, yes, I've always learned

0:43:02.480 --> 0:43:03.759
<v Speaker 2>very quickly. I enjoy learning.

0:43:03.960 --> 0:43:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes, And you're a big reader.

0:43:06.360 --> 0:43:09.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't really know. I like audiobooks more than actually reading.

0:43:09.160 --> 0:43:11.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't enjoy reading. Yeah, I listened to audio more

0:43:11.560 --> 0:43:11.959
<v Speaker 2>than reading.

0:43:12.200 --> 0:43:16.359
<v Speaker 1>I do both now, guys, But I have photographic micro photographic.

0:43:16.520 --> 0:43:18.560
<v Speaker 1>When I read, I'm the opposite.

0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:22.000
<v Speaker 2>Really, Yeah, I can't if I'll read a page because

0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:24.319
<v Speaker 2>my mind is in so many places I think about.

0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:28.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm constantly thinking. So if I read, I'll get done

0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:29.319
<v Speaker 2>with the page and be like, what did I just read?

0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:30.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't even remember what I just read.

0:43:30.480 --> 0:43:32.359
<v Speaker 1>But if I listen, the book is not great yet

0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:35.200
<v Speaker 1>that I'll have. Yeah, there's some people like C. S.

0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Lewis can be a little bit of a runner on

0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:40.400
<v Speaker 1>a page. All right, No, that that's a book I

0:43:40.400 --> 0:43:42.600
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't recommend for you if you would be in lou

0:43:42.840 --> 0:43:45.200
<v Speaker 1>gotcha gone, Okay.

0:43:44.760 --> 0:43:46.880
<v Speaker 2>See what you're saying. You know what I like about audiobooks?

0:43:46.920 --> 0:43:48.880
<v Speaker 2>So seriously, is I can speed it up? I have

0:43:48.960 --> 0:43:52.240
<v Speaker 2>the control. Like reading, I'm I can only read so fast,

0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:53.960
<v Speaker 2>regardless of how good of a reader I am, I

0:43:53.960 --> 0:43:56.200
<v Speaker 2>can only read so fast. But if I can turn

0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:59.120
<v Speaker 2>an audiobook on two x or three X and get

0:43:59.120 --> 0:43:59.680
<v Speaker 2>a book done in.

0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:04.279
<v Speaker 1>An hour, see my So we're opposites in the sense

0:44:04.320 --> 0:44:08.239
<v Speaker 1>that if I read a book on audio, and like

0:44:08.280 --> 0:44:10.560
<v Speaker 1>I said, it depends how the person writes. Right. There's

0:44:10.600 --> 0:44:12.680
<v Speaker 1>some really great writers and there's some people that like

0:44:13.520 --> 0:44:16.360
<v Speaker 1>some of the psychology books. I feel like sometimes those guys,

0:44:16.760 --> 0:44:19.359
<v Speaker 1>some of the words they use. I'm like, bro, let's

0:44:19.400 --> 0:44:21.360
<v Speaker 1>get through this chapter. Those I would probably have to

0:44:21.400 --> 0:44:24.280
<v Speaker 1>do two x but at this point I've semi checked

0:44:24.280 --> 0:44:26.640
<v Speaker 1>out and I'm scared I'm going to miss miss like

0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:29.319
<v Speaker 1>the meat and potatoes. That makes sense, But I do

0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:32.720
<v Speaker 1>a mix of audio now because it makes sense because

0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:35.440
<v Speaker 1>it's easier. But good to know about Youah, all right,

0:44:35.520 --> 0:44:39.719
<v Speaker 1>So back to you. When do you get to the exlicit?

0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:40.319
<v Speaker 2>Is it?

0:44:40.400 --> 0:44:40.880
<v Speaker 1>Exlicit?

0:44:41.600 --> 0:44:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Illicita college happened in college, full ride to the university's

0:44:46.880 --> 0:44:50.880
<v Speaker 2>leado to Division one college in our city playing baseball,

0:44:50.960 --> 0:44:54.160
<v Speaker 2>which was my dream. And I hurt my shoulder in college,

0:44:54.239 --> 0:44:57.680
<v Speaker 2>and so I had a minor surgery, just an outpatient surgery,

0:44:57.719 --> 0:44:59.840
<v Speaker 2>and that was the first time. I left that surgery

0:45:00.520 --> 0:45:03.880
<v Speaker 2>in and out two hours with ninety percocets. Now they

0:45:03.880 --> 0:45:06.120
<v Speaker 2>don't do that anymore. They don't prescribe that many pills

0:45:06.120 --> 0:45:08.200
<v Speaker 2>at once, but at that time they did, and that

0:45:08.280 --> 0:45:09.880
<v Speaker 2>was my first time doing opiates.

0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:12.040
<v Speaker 1>I had taken pills. Are opiates?

0:45:12.120 --> 0:45:14.520
<v Speaker 2>Yes, okay, okay, yep, So I had taken pills.

0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:18.200
<v Speaker 1>They do they tell you that, Yeah, they do. I

0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:20.800
<v Speaker 1>think they say, hey, this is percocets, it is an opiate.

0:45:20.920 --> 0:45:22.799
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if they say those exact words, but

0:45:22.880 --> 0:45:25.399
<v Speaker 2>like on the discharge paperwork, it says all that sort

0:45:25.440 --> 0:45:29.000
<v Speaker 2>of stuff at that time, I certainly don't remember them saying,

0:45:29.080 --> 0:45:31.680
<v Speaker 2>hey be careful with this, this is an addictive substance.

0:45:31.719 --> 0:45:36.560
<v Speaker 2>This is all during the opioid epidemic, when it was

0:45:36.640 --> 0:45:40.279
<v Speaker 2>being marketed as a non addictive description pain killer. So

0:45:40.320 --> 0:45:42.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that there was a ton of drug education,

0:45:42.280 --> 0:45:44.680
<v Speaker 2>and truthfully, I think even in our world today, there's

0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:46.239
<v Speaker 2>more that they can do with that.

0:45:46.280 --> 0:45:49.640
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, because they talk about pop songs, I did

0:45:49.719 --> 0:45:51.200
<v Speaker 1>not even opiate.

0:45:51.800 --> 0:45:56.919
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, so they give molecularly on a molecular level,

0:45:56.920 --> 0:45:59.400
<v Speaker 2>if we were to break down a percocet and heroin

0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:01.839
<v Speaker 2>are essentially the same thing.

0:46:03.480 --> 0:46:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Are you serious opioids?

0:46:05.120 --> 0:46:14.760
<v Speaker 2>Yes? Wow, yep, Okay, fetanyl carpetanyl heroin, percocets, oxycotton morphine, deluded.

0:46:14.960 --> 0:46:17.719
<v Speaker 2>These are all of the opioid class, and so they

0:46:17.760 --> 0:46:20.839
<v Speaker 2>all attached the same receptors in the brain and cause

0:46:20.880 --> 0:46:22.040
<v Speaker 2>the same reactions. Yeah.

0:46:22.239 --> 0:46:24.720
<v Speaker 1>When I was in Upstate New York the senior year

0:46:24.800 --> 0:46:28.080
<v Speaker 1>of my high school, I remember them lacing weed with

0:46:28.160 --> 0:46:31.080
<v Speaker 1>this brown substance and I forgot what they called it,

0:46:31.160 --> 0:46:33.719
<v Speaker 1>but it was a derivative of the opioid, and that

0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:36.399
<v Speaker 1>was like the first time I remember saying something around

0:46:36.440 --> 0:46:38.840
<v Speaker 1>my dad, and my dad was like, opioids is heroin

0:46:39.480 --> 0:46:41.440
<v Speaker 1>if you grow up in New York, but like heroin

0:46:41.440 --> 0:46:44.560
<v Speaker 1>addiction is. My parents used to scare straight. They'd be

0:46:44.640 --> 0:46:47.000
<v Speaker 1>like doing the lean, yeah, be like yo, that person

0:46:47.080 --> 0:46:49.480
<v Speaker 1>was a doctor and they gave they lost their whole

0:46:49.520 --> 0:46:51.840
<v Speaker 1>family and one night, for sure smoked a cigarette and

0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:57.520
<v Speaker 1>then they went on heroin like okay crett, yeah, okay,

0:46:57.640 --> 0:47:00.160
<v Speaker 1>never smoked a cigarette. They would love to do that.

0:47:00.400 --> 0:47:02.360
<v Speaker 1>You see someone in the lead, they'd be like that person.

0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:05.080
<v Speaker 1>They was living in a mansion somewhere and they give

0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:06.279
<v Speaker 1>this whole speech.

0:47:06.080 --> 0:47:09.440
<v Speaker 2>And you that was it opium stuff.

0:47:09.880 --> 0:47:11.880
<v Speaker 1>It was probably it was some kind of maybe it

0:47:11.920 --> 0:47:15.400
<v Speaker 1>was opium. I don't remember. I am the polar opposite.

0:47:15.480 --> 0:47:17.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm one of those. If I have a cocktail, I

0:47:17.719 --> 0:47:21.040
<v Speaker 1>take three SIPs and I'm like, eh, that my think.

0:47:21.160 --> 0:47:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Good for you, Yeah, good for you.

0:47:22.719 --> 0:47:25.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm very, very lucky, very I.

0:47:25.080 --> 0:47:26.799
<v Speaker 2>Can't understand that. My wife's the same way.

0:47:27.080 --> 0:47:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's it's I was with my dad and this

0:47:29.600 --> 0:47:31.480
<v Speaker 1>lady and they're like, oh, you order drink and I like,

0:47:31.600 --> 0:47:35.360
<v Speaker 1>ordered the fruity one and yeah they knew. And my

0:47:35.480 --> 0:47:37.399
<v Speaker 1>dad was like, I was like, yeah, I didn't feel

0:47:37.440 --> 0:47:39.839
<v Speaker 1>too good. He's oh, your whole drink was still there.

0:47:40.040 --> 0:47:42.759
<v Speaker 1>Would you drink two SIPs? I was like, yeah, still

0:47:42.760 --> 0:47:43.520
<v Speaker 1>didn't feel good.

0:47:45.440 --> 0:47:47.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, But that's where it started. It started in college

0:47:47.800 --> 0:47:50.200
<v Speaker 2>after the I remember taking the first one and falling

0:47:50.200 --> 0:47:53.239
<v Speaker 2>in love with it. I liked substances, I liked being

0:47:53.360 --> 0:47:55.640
<v Speaker 2>under the influence and having fun socially. But when I

0:47:55.719 --> 0:47:59.600
<v Speaker 2>experienced percocets for the first time, I wanted to feel

0:47:59.600 --> 0:48:01.040
<v Speaker 2>that way every day for the rest of my life.

0:48:01.360 --> 0:48:04.719
<v Speaker 1>Did your mom have any idea of the severity of

0:48:04.840 --> 0:48:06.319
<v Speaker 1>what percosetes were at the.

0:48:06.320 --> 0:48:07.880
<v Speaker 2>Time, No, nobody did.

0:48:08.040 --> 0:48:10.400
<v Speaker 1>So you were responsible doling it out to yourself. And

0:48:10.400 --> 0:48:12.840
<v Speaker 1>at this point you're in your twenties, right, Yeah.

0:48:12.640 --> 0:48:16.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm playing baseball. I'm nineteen at the time.

0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:18.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, are you in your dorms?

0:48:18.520 --> 0:48:20.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm in I had my own house, I have my

0:48:20.719 --> 0:48:22.400
<v Speaker 2>own college house, I have my own party house.

0:48:22.560 --> 0:48:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Of course you're mad.

0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:27.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm like, I'm doing the thing, same thing. Two

0:48:27.880 --> 0:48:31.520
<v Speaker 2>beers is good, five must be great. If one percoset

0:48:31.640 --> 0:48:34.399
<v Speaker 2>is this good, then I wonder what three or four does,

0:48:34.560 --> 0:48:36.880
<v Speaker 2>and that that prescription was supposed to last for I

0:48:36.880 --> 0:48:39.239
<v Speaker 2>think like forty five days. It was gone in a week.

0:48:39.480 --> 0:48:43.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think I saw on your LinkedIn. Yeah yeah,

0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:46.319
<v Speaker 1>I saw that. I was like, damn, like one week

0:48:46.600 --> 0:48:49.279
<v Speaker 1>that was it? Yeah, And I think you said like

0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:52.560
<v Speaker 1>the whole bottle was gone. I was like, oh yeah,

0:48:52.680 --> 0:48:55.600
<v Speaker 1>oh snap. And then at that point did you know

0:48:55.640 --> 0:48:56.640
<v Speaker 1>you had a problem?

0:48:56.760 --> 0:48:58.759
<v Speaker 2>So I woke up the next I actually didn't even

0:48:58.760 --> 0:49:02.520
<v Speaker 2>fall asleep when I took the last one. I started

0:49:02.520 --> 0:49:05.160
<v Speaker 2>to go through withdraws like I was physically dependent, not

0:49:05.320 --> 0:49:07.880
<v Speaker 2>like anything crazy, but I was starting to experience some

0:49:07.920 --> 0:49:12.800
<v Speaker 2>minor withdrawal symptoms, like what sleeplessness like restless, leg tossing

0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:17.239
<v Speaker 2>and turning hot and cold sweats, some nausea. Just laid

0:49:17.320 --> 0:49:18.799
<v Speaker 2>up all night feeling like that, and I was like,

0:49:18.840 --> 0:49:21.040
<v Speaker 2>I've never felt like this before. So I'm looking online.

0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:27.280
<v Speaker 2>What are these symptoms and everything? It's opioid addiction, chemical dependency, substance.

0:49:27.440 --> 0:49:28.880
<v Speaker 2>Like all the results, I'm like, no, let me go

0:49:28.920 --> 0:49:30.360
<v Speaker 2>to page two of Google. How often do you go

0:49:30.400 --> 0:49:32.480
<v Speaker 2>to page two of Google? You find your results right there.

0:49:32.480 --> 0:49:35.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to page.

0:49:34.120 --> 0:49:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Three on to page four page five, it's all addiction.

0:49:37.600 --> 0:49:39.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I am not an addict. I'm a d

0:49:39.200 --> 0:49:42.360
<v Speaker 2>one athlete with a full ride. I'm gonna go pro someday.

0:49:42.400 --> 0:49:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I was being watched by pro scouts as a freshman.

0:49:45.719 --> 0:49:48.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm not an addict, not an addict. I don't look

0:49:48.200 --> 0:49:49.160
<v Speaker 2>like an addict.

0:49:48.840 --> 0:49:51.120
<v Speaker 1>And you're not. You're looking up answers, but you're nowhere

0:49:51.160 --> 0:49:53.040
<v Speaker 1>and you're going, hey, can I get another purposet?

0:49:53.600 --> 0:49:56.319
<v Speaker 2>So that's what I did. I called a friend and

0:49:56.360 --> 0:49:58.080
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I feel this way. What do I do?

0:49:58.160 --> 0:50:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Everything's saying addiction, what and I do? I gotta go

0:50:00.719 --> 0:50:02.480
<v Speaker 2>to class, I gotta go to practice. And my friend

0:50:02.680 --> 0:50:04.879
<v Speaker 2>was like, go buy a pill for the first time. Now,

0:50:04.960 --> 0:50:06.760
<v Speaker 2>go buy know somebody who can buy a pill from.

0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Take the pill, and if you feel better, then you

0:50:10.520 --> 0:50:13.120
<v Speaker 2>are addicted. And I was like, that's actually really genius.

0:50:13.160 --> 0:50:14.440
<v Speaker 2>Let me go. That's a good idea. Let me go

0:50:14.440 --> 0:50:16.640
<v Speaker 2>buy drugs illegally now. And that was the first time

0:50:16.680 --> 0:50:18.560
<v Speaker 2>I did it. And that was the first time I

0:50:18.600 --> 0:50:21.200
<v Speaker 2>was introduced to like a pill.

0:50:21.480 --> 0:50:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Like a pill, it does sound like a good idea.

0:50:24.320 --> 0:50:26.239
<v Speaker 2>Makes sense, like the process of elimination.

0:50:26.920 --> 0:50:29.160
<v Speaker 1>It does, But then you think if you are an addict,

0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:31.040
<v Speaker 1>then you just literally lit.

0:50:31.080 --> 0:50:33.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you just kept it going. Yeah, I just kept

0:50:33.320 --> 0:50:33.560
<v Speaker 2>it going.

0:50:34.160 --> 0:50:35.759
<v Speaker 1>But I liked that it was like youth and youth

0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:39.479
<v Speaker 1>trying to solve a problem. I would have totally given

0:50:39.520 --> 0:50:41.800
<v Speaker 1>you like not me now, but I could see someone

0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:47.680
<v Speaker 1>like being like, we'll solve this problem right now. Okay,

0:50:47.760 --> 0:50:50.960
<v Speaker 1>it does make sense. Okay, so I can't even hate

0:50:51.000 --> 0:50:53.240
<v Speaker 1>on the friend there. That was logic. But then it's okay.

0:50:53.280 --> 0:50:56.200
<v Speaker 1>So then you find out, you find out, but even

0:50:56.280 --> 0:50:57.920
<v Speaker 1>just pursuing the illegal route.

0:50:57.800 --> 0:50:59.279
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, I found out. I was like, because I

0:50:59.320 --> 0:51:02.000
<v Speaker 2>took it and feelings went away right, well better, I

0:51:02.000 --> 0:51:04.960
<v Speaker 2>felt fine again very quickly, and I was like, oh

0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:08.640
<v Speaker 2>my gosh, I am like reliant on these. I wasn't.

0:51:08.719 --> 0:51:11.080
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't addiction yet. I wouldn't call it addiction yet,

0:51:11.080 --> 0:51:13.560
<v Speaker 2>but physically dependent on them to wear it.

0:51:13.640 --> 0:51:16.000
<v Speaker 1>And you were smarter, not smart enough at the time.

0:51:16.080 --> 0:51:18.520
<v Speaker 1>But that's weird that you like knew in that moment.

0:51:18.719 --> 0:51:22.240
<v Speaker 1>You were like, I need this to feel good, that's.

0:51:22.120 --> 0:51:25.160
<v Speaker 2>How So there are certain substances that cause withdrawals, and

0:51:25.200 --> 0:51:28.560
<v Speaker 2>there's certain substances where it's just mental obsession with opioids.

0:51:28.600 --> 0:51:31.400
<v Speaker 2>It's the mental obsession, but it's also physical with draws,

0:51:31.400 --> 0:51:33.880
<v Speaker 2>and if you don't have them every single day, you're

0:51:34.120 --> 0:51:37.000
<v Speaker 2>deathly sick. The withdrawals from opioids are terrible. The same

0:51:37.040 --> 0:51:39.279
<v Speaker 2>thing that I did that day to feel better to

0:51:39.360 --> 0:51:41.279
<v Speaker 2>go to practice and go to school, I had to

0:51:41.280 --> 0:51:43.160
<v Speaker 2>do the next day too, And then I had to

0:51:43.200 --> 0:51:45.160
<v Speaker 2>do it the next day or else I was going

0:51:45.239 --> 0:51:48.239
<v Speaker 2>to be sick feeling those feelings of shaking hot. I

0:51:48.239 --> 0:51:51.080
<v Speaker 2>couldn't go to practice that way. It's like you're throwing up,

0:51:51.120 --> 0:51:51.840
<v Speaker 2>you're vomiting.

0:51:52.520 --> 0:51:55.200
<v Speaker 1>What drugs can you take that don't give you a

0:51:55.239 --> 0:51:56.200
<v Speaker 1>physical withdrawal?

0:51:58.440 --> 0:52:03.160
<v Speaker 2>So every substance, even sugar, I mean like everything, nicotine, alcohol,

0:52:04.000 --> 0:52:07.439
<v Speaker 2>every substance, if you use it enough for long enough,

0:52:07.480 --> 0:52:11.360
<v Speaker 2>it's going to cause it's going you're there's withdrawal scales

0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:14.840
<v Speaker 2>for all substances. Some are obviously more significant than others,

0:52:15.480 --> 0:52:18.279
<v Speaker 2>but I would say the least physical withdrawals are going

0:52:18.320 --> 0:52:21.560
<v Speaker 2>to be like marijuana and cocaine and.

0:52:21.560 --> 0:52:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Sugar, right because now you're gonna be a little paranoid. Sugars.

0:52:24.480 --> 0:52:25.800
<v Speaker 2>I don't know when I eat a lot of sugar,

0:52:25.920 --> 0:52:28.720
<v Speaker 2>if I'm like on a bad, like stretch for three,

0:52:29.080 --> 0:52:31.640
<v Speaker 2>four or five months of just eating sugar all day

0:52:31.640 --> 0:52:33.280
<v Speaker 2>every day, and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna stop.

0:52:33.600 --> 0:52:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Have you ever done that? Just like cut off sugar.

0:52:36.080 --> 0:52:36.520
<v Speaker 1>No, I've.

0:52:37.960 --> 0:52:41.040
<v Speaker 2>Cut off carbs. Oh my gosh. The next day after that,

0:52:41.320 --> 0:52:46.040
<v Speaker 2>terrible headache, can't sleep. Sugar is wild, Sugar is Sugar

0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:49.359
<v Speaker 2>is crazy. Go down a deep dive of how like

0:52:49.520 --> 0:52:51.840
<v Speaker 2>bad sugar is for our bodies and for our brains.

0:52:51.920 --> 0:52:52.359
<v Speaker 2>It's wild.

0:52:52.960 --> 0:52:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Now now I'm thinking that I give my kid like

0:52:56.760 --> 0:52:59.960
<v Speaker 1>skittles to teach her how to learn how to read.

0:53:00.520 --> 0:53:02.920
<v Speaker 1>So I do this thing like yeah, I do this

0:53:03.000 --> 0:53:05.839
<v Speaker 1>like tutoring every morning, but after they eat breakfast, I'll

0:53:05.880 --> 0:53:09.240
<v Speaker 1>be like, hey you can have skit how much candy

0:53:09.239 --> 0:53:11.120
<v Speaker 1>do you earn? But now I'm thinking like, could I

0:53:11.160 --> 0:53:12.200
<v Speaker 1>be creating an addiction?

0:53:12.560 --> 0:53:15.440
<v Speaker 2>No, in moderation, I think most things.

0:53:15.560 --> 0:53:16.600
<v Speaker 1>Five skitlls every day.

0:53:16.719 --> 0:53:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think she's fine.

0:53:17.920 --> 0:53:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Okay, let's go back to your story. Okay, I'm learning. Okay,

0:53:23.800 --> 0:53:26.560
<v Speaker 1>this this has my brain working. Okay, So now you're

0:53:26.640 --> 0:53:30.040
<v Speaker 1>one perpose at a day, you're spending your harder money,

0:53:30.080 --> 0:53:34.200
<v Speaker 1>but you're getting this illegally at what point do you

0:53:34.400 --> 0:53:36.440
<v Speaker 1>start to say this is not good.

0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:40.560
<v Speaker 2>When I really started to notice, like my behavior and

0:53:40.600 --> 0:53:43.920
<v Speaker 2>performance slipping, like I lost like when I was when

0:53:43.920 --> 0:53:46.160
<v Speaker 2>I went to college, I put on so much lean

0:53:46.200 --> 0:53:49.359
<v Speaker 2>muscles in the best shape ever. All my muscles started

0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:52.399
<v Speaker 2>to fall off. I was late to practice, not doing

0:53:52.440 --> 0:53:55.600
<v Speaker 2>the extra work outside of practice. Late my grade started slipping.

0:53:55.640 --> 0:53:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I was like, yeah, this is this. And then I

0:53:58.560 --> 0:54:01.000
<v Speaker 2>had to go from percocets to oxy because percocets didn't

0:54:01.000 --> 0:54:01.920
<v Speaker 2>do it for me anymore.

0:54:02.560 --> 0:54:04.960
<v Speaker 1>When you say do it for you, your body withdraws

0:54:05.120 --> 0:54:07.880
<v Speaker 1>or it just didn't feel like a good high.

0:54:07.960 --> 0:54:10.840
<v Speaker 2>It both If I your tolerance goes up, and so

0:54:10.920 --> 0:54:13.360
<v Speaker 2>you either need more or you need something stronger to

0:54:13.400 --> 0:54:16.960
<v Speaker 2>produce the same effect. And so to get high anymore,

0:54:17.400 --> 0:54:19.560
<v Speaker 2>I had to do more, and to do three or

0:54:19.600 --> 0:54:22.600
<v Speaker 2>four percocets. That that's expensive. Let me just get one

0:54:22.640 --> 0:54:26.160
<v Speaker 2>oxy cotton to get that. Because oxyctins, depending on the milligram,

0:54:26.239 --> 0:54:29.560
<v Speaker 2>is stronger than at the time oxyconton was stronger. I'm

0:54:29.560 --> 0:54:33.400
<v Speaker 2>talking about OxyContin not oxy content, which are like a

0:54:33.880 --> 0:54:36.239
<v Speaker 2>completely different like back in the day. And people will

0:54:36.280 --> 0:54:39.759
<v Speaker 2>know if they know five O six the real oxies,

0:54:40.680 --> 0:54:45.560
<v Speaker 2>those things were like the purest form of any sort

0:54:45.560 --> 0:54:48.040
<v Speaker 2>of opioid. You could you could snort it, you could

0:54:48.080 --> 0:54:50.920
<v Speaker 2>swallow it, you could inject it. What I started to do.

0:54:51.040 --> 0:54:55.760
<v Speaker 2>I started to do that with oxycotton and then yeah.

0:54:55.560 --> 0:54:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Because I was going to say at some point I

0:54:56.880 --> 0:54:59.520
<v Speaker 1>would imagine when you get to the needle part, like okay,

0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:00.319
<v Speaker 1>go yeah.

0:55:00.320 --> 0:55:02.080
<v Speaker 2>I watched how to my friends and I because we

0:55:02.120 --> 0:55:04.960
<v Speaker 2>all started doing it together. We started we watched how

0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:08.239
<v Speaker 2>to inject on YouTube at the time. There was a

0:55:08.320 --> 0:55:09.839
<v Speaker 2>video that would show you how to do that.

0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:11.920
<v Speaker 1>What would lead you to guys to want to inject

0:55:12.000 --> 0:55:13.160
<v Speaker 1>versus like just swallowing it.

0:55:13.160 --> 0:55:16.480
<v Speaker 2>We're always trying to to get a better hide because

0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:19.200
<v Speaker 2>the hide after a certain amount of time isn't as good,

0:55:19.320 --> 0:55:21.080
<v Speaker 2>and so it's like, how can we level this up?

0:55:21.280 --> 0:55:24.759
<v Speaker 2>And it sounds so crazy, but when you're once you

0:55:24.840 --> 0:55:28.400
<v Speaker 2>cross that invisible line, it's that's just the way that

0:55:28.440 --> 0:55:30.839
<v Speaker 2>the brain thing just doesn't make sense to for us,

0:55:30.880 --> 0:55:34.239
<v Speaker 2>like talking now, it makes no sense, and for many

0:55:34.239 --> 0:55:37.279
<v Speaker 2>listeners it won't make any sense. But when you're in it,

0:55:37.280 --> 0:55:40.080
<v Speaker 2>it makes nothing but sense. So we watched a video

0:55:40.400 --> 0:55:40.919
<v Speaker 2>and these are.

0:55:40.800 --> 0:55:42.600
<v Speaker 1>Friends that are going to college with you, you.

0:55:42.640 --> 0:55:45.440
<v Speaker 2>Know, some of them probably in college at the time,

0:55:46.400 --> 0:55:47.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, and the rest of them were just like

0:55:48.040 --> 0:55:50.399
<v Speaker 2>friends from high school. A lot of my friends got

0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:52.480
<v Speaker 2>hooked on oxy conton at that time. It was like

0:55:52.560 --> 0:55:55.080
<v Speaker 2>it was a very common thing. We were all parties.

0:55:55.120 --> 0:55:59.200
<v Speaker 2>Weren't like beer pong anymore. Parties were snorting lines of

0:55:59.360 --> 0:56:00.160
<v Speaker 2>oxy conton off.

0:56:00.640 --> 0:56:01.280
<v Speaker 1>It elevated.

0:56:01.440 --> 0:56:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a lot of us are doing it.

0:56:02.920 --> 0:56:08.720
<v Speaker 1>So this is but you're out there in Ohio.

0:56:09.440 --> 0:56:12.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm in Toledo, Ohio. I'm in my hometown. I'm still

0:56:12.239 --> 0:56:12.920
<v Speaker 2>in my hometown.

0:56:16.280 --> 0:56:18.320
<v Speaker 1>I heard like, when you're dealing with addiction and stuff

0:56:18.360 --> 0:56:20.520
<v Speaker 1>like that, you got to get away from where it is.

0:56:20.560 --> 0:56:23.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't I think that. I think that can help

0:56:23.239 --> 0:56:25.560
<v Speaker 2>for some people. But everywhere you go, you take yourself

0:56:25.600 --> 0:56:28.399
<v Speaker 2>with you, and there are drugs everywhere in the world,

0:56:28.480 --> 0:56:31.120
<v Speaker 2>and so just there's no geographical care to addiction. You

0:56:31.160 --> 0:56:34.120
<v Speaker 2>can't just I'm going to go to Hawaii for six months,

0:56:34.400 --> 0:56:37.600
<v Speaker 2>not do drugs and then return or not return. You

0:56:37.640 --> 0:56:39.120
<v Speaker 2>can stay in Hawaii the whole time. And if you

0:56:39.160 --> 0:56:42.560
<v Speaker 2>don't work on yourself and why you started doing things

0:56:42.600 --> 0:56:45.799
<v Speaker 2>in the first place, you're going to continue to do

0:56:45.840 --> 0:56:46.920
<v Speaker 2>those things in Hawaii.

0:56:47.360 --> 0:56:49.960
<v Speaker 1>But in your case, your stuff was No, it wasn't.

0:56:50.320 --> 0:56:53.240
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say yours was accidental, but no, it wasn't.

0:56:53.680 --> 0:56:58.799
<v Speaker 1>Not really because had had you the whole situation with

0:56:58.880 --> 0:57:01.360
<v Speaker 1>your not if if you go further back, right, you

0:57:01.440 --> 0:57:04.560
<v Speaker 1>were that whole transition from high school losing your dad

0:57:04.719 --> 0:57:07.399
<v Speaker 1>to switch off to your mom. Like I guess, if

0:57:07.719 --> 0:57:10.400
<v Speaker 1>that whole story kind of didn't unravel, maybe none of

0:57:10.440 --> 0:57:11.120
<v Speaker 1>this would.

0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Have Probably not right.

0:57:13.120 --> 0:57:15.319
<v Speaker 1>Probably not because I was going to blame it on

0:57:15.400 --> 0:57:18.919
<v Speaker 1>like that whole surgery, but not because at that point

0:57:19.000 --> 0:57:21.120
<v Speaker 1>you were already used to trying different things.

0:57:21.320 --> 0:57:23.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I think it goes back to my dad

0:57:23.960 --> 0:57:26.080
<v Speaker 2>for sure. And I didn't realize that. I didn't realize

0:57:26.120 --> 0:57:29.040
<v Speaker 2>that until my twenty eighth treatment center that I went to.

0:57:29.800 --> 0:57:31.200
<v Speaker 1>So how did you discover it?

0:57:31.600 --> 0:57:36.320
<v Speaker 2>I know I'm getting a very good therapist, so pill Mills,

0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:40.200
<v Speaker 2>I'll close the loop there really quick. Oxy cotton took

0:57:40.240 --> 0:57:44.000
<v Speaker 2>off after percocets. I dropped out of college, started getting arrested,

0:57:44.200 --> 0:57:47.520
<v Speaker 2>working like meaningless jobs, went back to mom's house, in

0:57:47.600 --> 0:57:51.960
<v Speaker 2>and out of rehab. Arrests started happening. Just like the

0:57:52.000 --> 0:57:55.680
<v Speaker 2>real chaos of this is no longer dabbling. This is

0:57:55.720 --> 0:57:59.280
<v Speaker 2>no longer just dependency, full blown addiction, and everybody knew it.

0:57:59.880 --> 0:58:02.240
<v Speaker 2>You knew it, Oh yeah, absolutely. I was like you

0:58:02.400 --> 0:58:03.400
<v Speaker 2>not a rehabit and but.

0:58:03.400 --> 0:58:06.840
<v Speaker 1>You knew it after that first pill, right, that little

0:58:06.880 --> 0:58:08.400
<v Speaker 1>pill test. That's when you knew it.

0:58:08.440 --> 0:58:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I knew that I was dependent on it, like addiction

0:58:12.080 --> 0:58:15.680
<v Speaker 2>for me, so physical dependency on something. It doesn't progress

0:58:16.360 --> 0:58:21.400
<v Speaker 2>to like actual diagnosable severe addiction like opioid use dependence

0:58:22.320 --> 0:58:25.600
<v Speaker 2>until you continue to use despite consequences. There was no

0:58:25.640 --> 0:58:28.880
<v Speaker 2>consequences after those seven pills. I was still like, no

0:58:28.960 --> 0:58:33.000
<v Speaker 2>consequences once I started getting in trouble, once I started stealing,

0:58:33.120 --> 0:58:35.240
<v Speaker 2>once I started getting into debt, once I had dropped

0:58:35.240 --> 0:58:37.280
<v Speaker 2>out of school, and I still do those things. Now.

0:58:37.440 --> 0:58:40.360
<v Speaker 2>Now it's addiction. You look at how is my life?

0:58:40.360 --> 0:58:45.240
<v Speaker 2>What are all these factors happening around? That's full blown addiction.

0:58:45.480 --> 0:58:48.320
<v Speaker 1>That's sounds like you do it despite the consequences.

0:58:48.320 --> 0:58:50.959
<v Speaker 2>Correct, And I had every reason in the world to stop.

0:58:51.120 --> 0:58:53.760
<v Speaker 2>Like on paper, Matt, what are you doing? What are

0:58:53.760 --> 0:58:57.000
<v Speaker 2>you doing? It's denial. It's all these sorts of things.

0:58:57.040 --> 0:59:00.400
<v Speaker 2>But that's addiction. It just does not make sense, just

0:59:00.400 --> 0:59:02.720
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make sense. At all.

0:59:02.880 --> 0:59:06.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's interesting. So now where did we were.

0:59:06.440 --> 0:59:09.960
<v Speaker 2>We were got to heroin because oxy cotton they shut

0:59:10.000 --> 0:59:12.400
<v Speaker 2>down all the pill mills. They all got raided at

0:59:12.400 --> 0:59:14.800
<v Speaker 2>the same time. In northwest Ohio and southeast Michigan. They

0:59:14.840 --> 0:59:16.840
<v Speaker 2>all got raided and that's when the cartels brought in.

0:59:17.320 --> 0:59:19.560
<v Speaker 2>It was actually real heroin at the time. Now it's not,

0:59:19.760 --> 0:59:22.360
<v Speaker 2>it's all fentanyl. So then I started shooting harrow and

0:59:22.400 --> 0:59:24.880
<v Speaker 2>that was like, that was actually a relief because I

0:59:24.960 --> 0:59:27.360
<v Speaker 2>was spending three four hundred dollars a day on oxy cotton.

0:59:27.640 --> 0:59:29.000
<v Speaker 1>How are you making how much money?

0:59:29.040 --> 0:59:32.320
<v Speaker 2>You just I inherited money from my dad and I

0:59:32.400 --> 0:59:34.800
<v Speaker 2>spent it all gone, mag I spent it all in

0:59:35.040 --> 0:59:36.240
<v Speaker 2>nine months.

0:59:37.240 --> 0:59:41.040
<v Speaker 1>But wait, your dad left when you were like fifteen

0:59:41.120 --> 0:59:44.240
<v Speaker 1>or sixteen, so I didn't inherit it till later correct

0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:46.600
<v Speaker 1>at what time, like twenty two, fifteen and a half?

0:59:47.720 --> 0:59:50.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh my, And it was gone by nineteen and a half,

0:59:51.400 --> 0:59:55.120
<v Speaker 2>so that it was a wild run while I had

0:59:55.160 --> 0:59:57.480
<v Speaker 2>that money. But once it was gone, then I had

0:59:57.480 --> 1:00:00.440
<v Speaker 2>to start committing crimes and doing all sorts stuff to

1:00:00.440 --> 1:00:04.840
<v Speaker 2>feed my addiction. But four hundred dollars on oxy cotton

1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:08.120
<v Speaker 2>versus thirty dollars forty dollars a day on heroin. It's

1:00:08.120 --> 1:00:11.120
<v Speaker 2>a no brainer. Yeah, and it's the same thing, so yes,

1:00:11.240 --> 1:00:15.440
<v Speaker 2>switch to heroin and then just start Stuff started getting

1:00:15.600 --> 1:00:17.520
<v Speaker 2>really bad when I started using heroin. It was so

1:00:17.640 --> 1:00:22.560
<v Speaker 2>much stronger. The physical withdrawals were worse. So that's when,

1:00:22.600 --> 1:00:26.440
<v Speaker 2>like rehabs really started to happen overdoses, the arrest.

1:00:26.520 --> 1:00:28.919
<v Speaker 1>The rehabs happened because withdraws were really bad.

1:00:29.280 --> 1:00:31.240
<v Speaker 2>No, because I was getting in trouble. Everybody else wanted

1:00:31.280 --> 1:00:31.640
<v Speaker 2>me to go.

1:00:31.800 --> 1:00:33.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, everybody wanted you to go.

1:00:34.240 --> 1:00:37.200
<v Speaker 2>It was always a judge or a probation officer, or

1:00:37.200 --> 1:00:39.560
<v Speaker 2>my mom or a girlfriend. I never wanted to go.

1:00:39.600 --> 1:00:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Somebody else always wanted me to go.

1:00:42.280 --> 1:00:45.040
<v Speaker 1>At what point, why is it that you wouldn't want

1:00:45.040 --> 1:00:45.280
<v Speaker 1>to go?

1:00:47.960 --> 1:00:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I just wasn't I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready.

1:00:50.880 --> 1:00:53.680
<v Speaker 1>I did like you knew the consequences were bad, but

1:00:53.720 --> 1:00:56.320
<v Speaker 1>you just didn't care. And I guess that there was

1:00:56.320 --> 1:00:58.440
<v Speaker 1>a definition of addiction is right. Yeah, it's just a

1:00:58.560 --> 1:00:59.160
<v Speaker 1>vicious cycle.

1:00:59.320 --> 1:01:06.360
<v Speaker 2>It's a cunning, baffling, powerful, insidious brain disease that you'll

1:01:06.400 --> 1:01:10.600
<v Speaker 2>never understand until you have to understand it. Like for

1:01:10.640 --> 1:01:13.760
<v Speaker 2>me to explain it to you or to anybody. If

1:01:13.800 --> 1:01:16.400
<v Speaker 2>I've never tasted chocolate before, tell me what chocolate tastes like.

1:01:16.480 --> 1:01:17.600
<v Speaker 1>It's the greatest thing on earth.

1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:21.720
<v Speaker 2>I think corn on the cob is the greatest thing

1:01:21.720 --> 1:01:23.680
<v Speaker 2>on earth. So if you're telling me it's the greatest

1:01:23.680 --> 1:01:26.240
<v Speaker 2>thing on earth, my mind goes to I love chocolate.

1:01:26.280 --> 1:01:28.400
<v Speaker 1>I should be able to answer this question. But I

1:01:28.440 --> 1:01:32.120
<v Speaker 1>love that you're proposal of this because I honestly other

1:01:32.160 --> 1:01:36.480
<v Speaker 1>than chocolate. Like if I always say, like if someone said,

1:01:36.560 --> 1:01:38.360
<v Speaker 1>go the rest of your life without chocolate.

1:01:42.920 --> 1:01:47.600
<v Speaker 2>I always hear people say it's sweet, it's sweet, it's creamy, creamy.

1:01:47.880 --> 1:01:51.160
<v Speaker 2>Dark chocolate can have a bitter taste to it. So

1:01:51.200 --> 1:01:55.040
<v Speaker 2>I hear these things, I'm like, okay, sweet strawberries, bitter lemons,

1:01:56.600 --> 1:02:01.840
<v Speaker 2>creamy mashed potatoes. Do am I am? I thinking about

1:02:02.240 --> 1:02:05.960
<v Speaker 2>an accurate depiction of chocolate. So if the only way

1:02:06.000 --> 1:02:07.760
<v Speaker 2>that I will ever fully understand is to put these

1:02:07.880 --> 1:02:10.320
<v Speaker 2>chocolate in my mouth and taste it for myself, And

1:02:10.360 --> 1:02:13.080
<v Speaker 2>it's the same thing with addiction, it just doesn't make sense.

1:02:15.160 --> 1:02:17.160
<v Speaker 1>But the only difference is that say, you and I

1:02:17.240 --> 1:02:19.919
<v Speaker 1>both like chocolate, right, but I'm the one that. Let's

1:02:19.960 --> 1:02:22.280
<v Speaker 1>just say I was addicted to chocolate, but it doesn't

1:02:22.320 --> 1:02:24.520
<v Speaker 1>have the same effect. Say you're a vanilla person, right,

1:02:24.560 --> 1:02:26.640
<v Speaker 1>then would you even still understand it?

1:02:27.720 --> 1:02:29.360
<v Speaker 2>I might understand a little bit more. I think I

1:02:29.440 --> 1:02:32.240
<v Speaker 2>might understand it a little bit more because I would say,

1:02:32.240 --> 1:02:35.520
<v Speaker 2>that's like someone who is addicted to alcohol versus someone

1:02:35.520 --> 1:02:39.800
<v Speaker 2>who's addicted to another substance. The addiction is the same,

1:02:39.800 --> 1:02:43.200
<v Speaker 2>but I'll never really understand. There's a common denominator of

1:02:43.240 --> 1:02:45.680
<v Speaker 2>what it's like to be addicted to something there, I think.

1:02:46.240 --> 1:02:48.400
<v Speaker 1>So, do you think people that aren't addicts have a

1:02:48.480 --> 1:02:54.120
<v Speaker 1>lack of I think from my experience that there is

1:02:54.160 --> 1:02:55.240
<v Speaker 1>a lack of empathy.

1:02:55.960 --> 1:02:56.680
<v Speaker 2>I think some people.

1:02:56.720 --> 1:03:00.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, from my experience, I lack empathy because it doesn't

1:03:00.760 --> 1:03:01.960
<v Speaker 1>make logical sense.

1:03:02.080 --> 1:03:02.520
<v Speaker 2>Correct.

1:03:02.760 --> 1:03:06.000
<v Speaker 1>But then I have to go, according to the world,

1:03:06.240 --> 1:03:08.520
<v Speaker 1>it's a disease. And then you hear people that were

1:03:08.560 --> 1:03:10.360
<v Speaker 1>addicts the way they describe it in music. I like

1:03:10.400 --> 1:03:13.680
<v Speaker 1>the way people describe in music or testimonials like yourself,

1:03:13.840 --> 1:03:16.080
<v Speaker 1>because you get an idea if they can explain it

1:03:16.160 --> 1:03:19.240
<v Speaker 1>well enough, like how you describe chocolate, right, Yeah, then

1:03:19.280 --> 1:03:21.040
<v Speaker 1>you get an idea. But there is a little bit

1:03:21.040 --> 1:03:24.200
<v Speaker 1>of a lack of empathy. I don't know, because logically,

1:03:24.200 --> 1:03:25.760
<v Speaker 1>you're like, you're losing everything.

1:03:25.880 --> 1:03:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, why would you do that?

1:03:27.680 --> 1:03:27.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1:03:27.960 --> 1:03:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Why would you do that?

1:03:28.840 --> 1:03:31.360
<v Speaker 1>And then it goes into you you love this thing

1:03:31.600 --> 1:03:34.080
<v Speaker 1>more than you love this thing. So that's where the

1:03:34.440 --> 1:03:36.640
<v Speaker 1>logic and the lack of empathy.

1:03:36.800 --> 1:03:39.400
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, if I told you, if I offered you a

1:03:39.520 --> 1:03:41.680
<v Speaker 2>million dollars to not blink for the rest of this show,

1:03:41.720 --> 1:03:42.640
<v Speaker 2>would you be able to do it?

1:03:42.760 --> 1:03:46.280
<v Speaker 1>No, for the rest of the show. Yeah, which I

1:03:46.400 --> 1:03:46.840
<v Speaker 1>really hard.

1:03:47.080 --> 1:03:49.320
<v Speaker 2>You try, right, you try really hard. So that I

1:03:49.320 --> 1:03:51.920
<v Speaker 2>always do this in schools and I'll ask, I'll always

1:03:51.920 --> 1:03:54.120
<v Speaker 2>bring in somebody a couple hundred hours, I'll say in schools,

1:03:54.160 --> 1:03:55.960
<v Speaker 2>i'll say, if you guys don't blink for the whole presentation,

1:03:56.000 --> 1:03:58.200
<v Speaker 2>I'll give you this money. And it's never happened. In

1:03:58.200 --> 1:04:00.200
<v Speaker 2>ten years. I probably spoken to a million students in

1:04:00.240 --> 1:04:02.280
<v Speaker 2>ten years, and obviously it's never happened. I've had some

1:04:02.440 --> 1:04:05.080
<v Speaker 2>kids like try to hold their eyes open. One kid

1:04:05.080 --> 1:04:07.160
<v Speaker 2>taped his eyes open, but nobody's been able to keep

1:04:07.200 --> 1:04:09.919
<v Speaker 2>their eyes open. There's a reason for that is because

1:04:10.200 --> 1:04:14.640
<v Speaker 2>the brain controls it. The brain controls blinking, it controls breathing, swallowing, heartbeat,

1:04:14.680 --> 1:04:17.040
<v Speaker 2>all these things that just automatically happen that we don't

1:04:17.080 --> 1:04:20.480
<v Speaker 2>think about. And to think about addiction as a chronic

1:04:21.000 --> 1:04:23.440
<v Speaker 2>brain disease, that it if you were to look at

1:04:23.520 --> 1:04:27.120
<v Speaker 2>somebody who's struggling with addiction versus your brain right now,

1:04:27.160 --> 1:04:31.920
<v Speaker 2>they're different physiologically. This is science, This is not Matt's opinion.

1:04:32.680 --> 1:04:37.400
<v Speaker 2>The brain changes from substance use, from chemical dependency. The

1:04:37.400 --> 1:04:43.440
<v Speaker 2>brain changes and the ability to make good decisions is

1:04:44.080 --> 1:04:46.160
<v Speaker 2>impacted by that. And so for me to say I'll

1:04:46.160 --> 1:04:48.280
<v Speaker 2>give you a million dollars if you don't blink is

1:04:48.320 --> 1:04:51.560
<v Speaker 2>the same as society to say why can't they just stop?

1:04:52.200 --> 1:04:55.360
<v Speaker 2>It's not that simple. Their brain is telling them they

1:04:55.400 --> 1:04:59.280
<v Speaker 2>have to have more. And so for us to say

1:04:59.280 --> 1:05:01.720
<v Speaker 2>that addicts are like bad people and they just need

1:05:01.760 --> 1:05:03.720
<v Speaker 2>to become good, it has nothing to do with that.

1:05:04.360 --> 1:05:08.400
<v Speaker 2>They've maybe made some bad choices and they've used a substance,

1:05:09.160 --> 1:05:11.960
<v Speaker 2>probably not great choices, but at some point it changes

1:05:12.000 --> 1:05:15.400
<v Speaker 2>and it's no longer these are choices anymore. This is

1:05:15.440 --> 1:05:18.040
<v Speaker 2>a I have to do this to survive, and this

1:05:18.080 --> 1:05:20.480
<v Speaker 2>person is sick now. And to understand addiction in that

1:05:20.520 --> 1:05:24.400
<v Speaker 2>way as the diagnosable condition of the disease concept of it.

1:05:25.200 --> 1:05:27.400
<v Speaker 2>This is a sick person that needs treatment. They're not

1:05:27.440 --> 1:05:30.240
<v Speaker 2>a bad person that needs to become good. But people

1:05:30.240 --> 1:05:31.000
<v Speaker 2>don't understand that.

1:05:31.640 --> 1:05:33.880
<v Speaker 1>No, but I think the way you explained it is

1:05:34.000 --> 1:05:37.640
<v Speaker 1>very helpful. I think it's very easy to understand a

1:05:37.680 --> 1:05:40.920
<v Speaker 1>physical withdrawal from an outside perspective. I'm the devil's advocate,

1:05:41.240 --> 1:05:45.920
<v Speaker 1>met I love it. At what point everyone's pleading with

1:05:45.960 --> 1:05:48.960
<v Speaker 1>you to go and get help. At what point do

1:05:49.040 --> 1:05:51.120
<v Speaker 1>you and I guess you told me this, But at

1:05:51.120 --> 1:05:53.720
<v Speaker 1>what point do you say, I really want to help?

1:05:55.320 --> 1:05:57.400
<v Speaker 1>Shun a debate, should I go for this question or

1:05:57.440 --> 1:05:59.600
<v Speaker 1>do I go for At what point does the therapist

1:06:00.400 --> 1:06:04.640
<v Speaker 1>find the magic button? Which one goes first? The therapist

1:06:04.720 --> 1:06:06.280
<v Speaker 1>finding the magic button, they go.

1:06:06.200 --> 1:06:08.360
<v Speaker 2>Along at the same time. To be honest with you,

1:06:08.520 --> 1:06:12.600
<v Speaker 2>my therapist was able to help me identify that me

1:06:12.720 --> 1:06:15.960
<v Speaker 2>losing my father was that was my trauma. That was

1:06:16.080 --> 1:06:20.280
<v Speaker 2>trauma for me. I viewed as a completely normal occurrence.

1:06:20.840 --> 1:06:23.280
<v Speaker 2>People died. I viewed it as that way. Oh and

1:06:23.320 --> 1:06:25.760
<v Speaker 2>by the way, I got to go back to this

1:06:25.840 --> 1:06:27.800
<v Speaker 2>place where I already feel uncomfortable. I gotta go fit.

1:06:27.880 --> 1:06:29.880
<v Speaker 2>I can't go walk into an all guys college prep

1:06:29.960 --> 1:06:31.959
<v Speaker 2>high school as a freshman and be like, I'm really

1:06:31.960 --> 1:06:34.360
<v Speaker 2>sad that my dad's dead. I have to go take

1:06:34.360 --> 1:06:36.960
<v Speaker 2>an exam tomorrow. I have to go make the team.

1:06:37.160 --> 1:06:40.280
<v Speaker 2>It's try it's tryouts right now. I have to go compete.

1:06:40.440 --> 1:06:42.960
<v Speaker 2>I have to step in. I can't think about this.

1:06:43.040 --> 1:06:45.720
<v Speaker 2>So I never dealt with it. I never even recognized

1:06:46.360 --> 1:06:49.280
<v Speaker 2>that it was trauma. I put on the back burner

1:06:49.320 --> 1:06:52.880
<v Speaker 2>and just never processed it. And for up until that

1:06:53.000 --> 1:06:57.440
<v Speaker 2>twenty eighth time, it just remained unprocessed. It was unprocessed

1:06:57.480 --> 1:06:58.240
<v Speaker 2>grief and trauma.

1:06:58.640 --> 1:07:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Now, when you say unprocessed, does that mean that because

1:07:00.960 --> 1:07:03.880
<v Speaker 1>you didn't find a way to cope through it? Is

1:07:03.880 --> 1:07:04.800
<v Speaker 1>that what that means?

1:07:05.040 --> 1:07:06.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes? And I found ways to cope. They were just

1:07:07.200 --> 1:07:10.400
<v Speaker 2>very unhealthy ways to cope. But what it was She

1:07:10.440 --> 1:07:12.320
<v Speaker 2>asked me a question. She said, if drugs are answer,

1:07:12.400 --> 1:07:16.520
<v Speaker 2>what's your question? I was like, that's very deep. I

1:07:16.520 --> 1:07:18.720
<v Speaker 2>don't really know how to respond to that, but you're right,

1:07:18.800 --> 1:07:21.280
<v Speaker 2>drugs have been my answer. What is my question? I

1:07:21.320 --> 1:07:23.360
<v Speaker 2>wasn't able to answer right that. What I got to,

1:07:23.560 --> 1:07:27.720
<v Speaker 2>through like recurring sessions with her, my question was what

1:07:27.800 --> 1:07:29.800
<v Speaker 2>is it about? Myself that I hate so much that

1:07:29.880 --> 1:07:31.960
<v Speaker 2>I have to alter who I am to have a

1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:34.640
<v Speaker 2>relationship with the world. I can't just wake up and

1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:36.240
<v Speaker 2>be mad. I have to do something. I have to

1:07:36.320 --> 1:07:38.760
<v Speaker 2>change who I am to be a friend, to be

1:07:38.800 --> 1:07:41.160
<v Speaker 2>a partner, to be the funny guy at the part

1:07:41.240 --> 1:07:47.520
<v Speaker 2>I have to I can't just be natural. And she

1:07:47.640 --> 1:07:51.480
<v Speaker 2>helped me realize that from my dad leaving. At that time,

1:07:51.480 --> 1:07:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I viewed that as abandonment, Like my fourteen year old

1:07:54.760 --> 1:07:58.120
<v Speaker 2>brain thought that my best friend abandoned me. And so

1:07:59.520 --> 1:08:02.080
<v Speaker 2>how do I control things to make sure I never

1:08:02.080 --> 1:08:07.840
<v Speaker 2>get abandoned again? How do I settle in relationships for

1:08:08.600 --> 1:08:11.360
<v Speaker 2>rather than shooting for the excellence of my dad? How

1:08:11.400 --> 1:08:15.040
<v Speaker 2>do I maybe settle for something that's less than because

1:08:15.120 --> 1:08:17.400
<v Speaker 2>I can control it and make sure that it or she,

1:08:17.800 --> 1:08:20.960
<v Speaker 2>or a friend or anybody never leaves me. How can

1:08:21.040 --> 1:08:23.439
<v Speaker 2>I always bring something to the table that's not Matt

1:08:24.240 --> 1:08:26.479
<v Speaker 2>that makes me so good that nobody will ever want

1:08:26.520 --> 1:08:28.360
<v Speaker 2>to get rid of me. It was like all these

1:08:28.400 --> 1:08:31.200
<v Speaker 2>like deep, profound things that I had to really get to,

1:08:31.280 --> 1:08:34.519
<v Speaker 2>and it was all abandonment that led to I need

1:08:34.560 --> 1:08:37.240
<v Speaker 2>to control everything. I need to control every and substances

1:08:37.280 --> 1:08:39.679
<v Speaker 2>were my way to do that in relationships, in fun

1:08:39.760 --> 1:08:42.640
<v Speaker 2>and social settings. Substances were my way to do that.

1:08:42.640 --> 1:08:47.200
<v Speaker 1>That's a lot, that's a lot. I still don't understand

1:08:47.240 --> 1:08:50.200
<v Speaker 1>how substance was your way of controlling other things though.

1:08:51.080 --> 1:08:53.360
<v Speaker 2>So if I walk into a party without substances, they

1:08:53.400 --> 1:08:54.120
<v Speaker 2>might not accept me.

1:08:55.000 --> 1:08:55.280
<v Speaker 1>Got it.

1:08:55.320 --> 1:08:57.760
<v Speaker 2>If I walk in with a bottle, we're having a

1:08:57.760 --> 1:08:58.160
<v Speaker 2>good time.

1:09:00.000 --> 1:09:03.280
<v Speaker 1>If you walk in as yourself, who.

1:09:02.680 --> 1:09:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Knows if they'll invite me back.

1:09:06.720 --> 1:09:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Wow.

1:09:07.240 --> 1:09:10.040
<v Speaker 2>So I mean that's just I was. I had to

1:09:10.040 --> 1:09:11.920
<v Speaker 2>get to a point where I was okay walking into

1:09:11.960 --> 1:09:15.519
<v Speaker 2>that room as myself with nothing else and to be

1:09:15.520 --> 1:09:17.479
<v Speaker 2>able to work on what was it? It was fear,

1:09:17.720 --> 1:09:21.800
<v Speaker 2>it was insecurities, it was just all these basically fear.

1:09:21.880 --> 1:09:23.920
<v Speaker 2>Is what the Twelve Steps helped me realize, is that

1:09:23.960 --> 1:09:26.240
<v Speaker 2>I was afraid of so many different things, hundreds of

1:09:26.280 --> 1:09:29.880
<v Speaker 2>forms of fear. And so the opposite of that is

1:09:29.880 --> 1:09:32.240
<v Speaker 2>building courage and self esteem and all that sort of stuff.

1:09:32.280 --> 1:09:34.920
<v Speaker 2>And that's what that's what stepwork does. It's an ego

1:09:34.960 --> 1:09:37.719
<v Speaker 2>deflating process that helps you be okay with yourself.

1:09:37.880 --> 1:09:39.240
<v Speaker 1>I went to one with a girl.

1:09:39.640 --> 1:09:41.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's awesome, and it was.

1:09:41.120 --> 1:09:43.000
<v Speaker 1>It felt like they I don't want to judge, but

1:09:43.400 --> 1:09:45.639
<v Speaker 1>I was in the room and it felt like everyone

1:09:45.800 --> 1:09:48.439
<v Speaker 1>was like there was a humility and a respect was

1:09:48.520 --> 1:09:52.000
<v Speaker 1>a greater being, like a God or whatever. Yeah, but

1:09:52.080 --> 1:09:52.679
<v Speaker 1>it was interesting.

1:09:52.760 --> 1:09:55.200
<v Speaker 2>Twelve step programs are they're spiritual in nature. You don't

1:09:55.240 --> 1:09:56.880
<v Speaker 2>have to believe in God. You don't have to believe

1:09:56.880 --> 1:09:59.200
<v Speaker 2>in a specific God. But the whole goal of the

1:09:59.200 --> 1:10:01.639
<v Speaker 2>twelve steps is help you find something greater than yourself.

1:10:02.000 --> 1:10:07.320
<v Speaker 2>Because my way got me into that program. If my

1:10:07.400 --> 1:10:09.360
<v Speaker 2>way was good enough, I wouldn't need that program. Well,

1:10:09.479 --> 1:10:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I have to find something bigger than me.

1:10:11.400 --> 1:10:14.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Then that would also mean that you're not in control.

1:10:14.760 --> 1:10:17.080
<v Speaker 1>So do you think that most addicts think that is

1:10:17.120 --> 1:10:21.000
<v Speaker 1>their way of controlling the environment versus I don't.

1:10:20.800 --> 1:10:24.439
<v Speaker 2>Think everybody's different. Oh, I think everybody's different, A.

1:10:24.520 --> 1:10:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Learned less all right, what I know, we're definitely over

1:10:30.800 --> 1:10:35.960
<v Speaker 1>the time. What advice do you give to families who

1:10:36.880 --> 1:10:38.240
<v Speaker 1>deal with addicts?

1:10:40.120 --> 1:10:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Love? Tough love. I think tough love is the most

1:10:44.040 --> 1:10:46.439
<v Speaker 2>underutil lot because it's tough. I mean it's tough on

1:10:46.479 --> 1:10:50.120
<v Speaker 2>the it's tough on the person receiving it and the

1:10:50.120 --> 1:10:53.479
<v Speaker 2>people giving it. But tough love is my short answer.

1:10:53.920 --> 1:10:58.160
<v Speaker 2>Generalized answer, tough love. Find ways to get to a

1:10:58.160 --> 1:11:04.720
<v Speaker 2>point where you can give tough love boundaries. Families have

1:11:04.760 --> 1:11:08.680
<v Speaker 2>so much control and leverage that they don't realize that

1:11:08.720 --> 1:11:11.000
<v Speaker 2>they have that. If I say, if you do this again,

1:11:11.080 --> 1:11:13.720
<v Speaker 2>if you come back home again drunk, if gamble the

1:11:13.720 --> 1:11:16.519
<v Speaker 2>money away again, if you do this again, these things

1:11:16.520 --> 1:11:19.760
<v Speaker 2>are going to happen. Do that and stick to those

1:11:19.800 --> 1:11:24.960
<v Speaker 2>boundaries because the consequences that people can remember how I

1:11:24.960 --> 1:11:27.280
<v Speaker 2>said in high school, I'd never had any consequences like

1:11:27.640 --> 1:11:30.160
<v Speaker 2>the DUI that this, that cops come to the party, Matt,

1:11:30.160 --> 1:11:32.080
<v Speaker 2>you got to play this Friday, get out of here,

1:11:32.840 --> 1:11:35.759
<v Speaker 2>never any consequence. We have to have consequences to change.

1:11:35.760 --> 1:11:41.639
<v Speaker 2>We have to, and families can implement those consequences for people.

1:11:41.760 --> 1:11:44.679
<v Speaker 2>Rather than allowing people to just go out and dig

1:11:44.760 --> 1:11:47.600
<v Speaker 2>deep down to a rock bottom that they find themselves,

1:11:47.800 --> 1:11:50.280
<v Speaker 2>families can bring that rock bottom to the loved ones.

1:11:51.439 --> 1:11:54.360
<v Speaker 1>I think I can understand, though, where families are in

1:11:54.439 --> 1:11:57.959
<v Speaker 1>a battle with themselves, because if you're from a family's perspective,

1:11:57.960 --> 1:12:00.000
<v Speaker 1>you'd be like, Okay, my boundary doesn't mean anything, because

1:12:00.080 --> 1:12:02.080
<v Speaker 1>guess what, the only thing they care about is that

1:12:02.439 --> 1:12:05.080
<v Speaker 1>drug or that substance or whatever they're hooked to. So

1:12:06.240 --> 1:12:09.920
<v Speaker 1>why my boundary doesn't mean anything? It's easy to say that, right.

1:12:10.360 --> 1:12:11.760
<v Speaker 1>I guess you'd have to be tough love for a

1:12:11.840 --> 1:12:13.120
<v Speaker 1>very strong time, a long time.

1:12:13.320 --> 1:12:14.920
<v Speaker 2>It might be some families that have to do it

1:12:14.920 --> 1:12:17.479
<v Speaker 2>for a long time. Some people can do it for

1:12:17.680 --> 1:12:20.000
<v Speaker 2>the very first time. They hold that conversation and the

1:12:20.000 --> 1:12:23.240
<v Speaker 2>person changes. So addictions is just weird. It's you can

1:12:23.360 --> 1:12:25.479
<v Speaker 2>make a pizza and put it in an oven and

1:12:25.640 --> 1:12:27.800
<v Speaker 2>it comes out how it's supposed to every single time,

1:12:27.840 --> 1:12:30.960
<v Speaker 2>as long as you follow the instructions. There's no one

1:12:31.000 --> 1:12:33.920
<v Speaker 2>size fits all. Why did this happen to this person?

1:12:34.840 --> 1:12:37.439
<v Speaker 2>And what is the right way to deal with this

1:12:37.479 --> 1:12:42.719
<v Speaker 2>individual like you? It's so complex. It's just so Complex's

1:12:42.720 --> 1:12:45.000
<v Speaker 2>why the success rates are so low, the success rates

1:12:45.000 --> 1:12:46.519
<v Speaker 2>of people. That's why I said, I'm not supposed to

1:12:46.560 --> 1:12:50.120
<v Speaker 2>be here after that many times in treatment and as

1:12:50.120 --> 1:12:52.160
<v Speaker 2>long as I was out there, I should not be here.

1:12:52.840 --> 1:12:55.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I could imagine there's like a different array of

1:12:55.800 --> 1:12:58.800
<v Speaker 1>emotions from people looking at your story. For people that

1:12:58.880 --> 1:13:03.080
<v Speaker 1>have lost people to say drugs and see you sit here, man,

1:13:03.160 --> 1:13:07.559
<v Speaker 1>why couldn't my person just couldn't get it? In that

1:13:07.680 --> 1:13:10.200
<v Speaker 1>right amount of time. But I like that you're using

1:13:10.240 --> 1:13:14.240
<v Speaker 1>your shouldn't be here to like impact and change the world.

1:13:14.360 --> 1:13:16.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love it. I love what I love what

1:13:16.080 --> 1:13:16.639
<v Speaker 2>I do today.

1:13:16.880 --> 1:13:20.799
<v Speaker 1>Even though it seems like you're surrounded by trauma.

1:13:21.560 --> 1:13:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's all day people are coming in to the

1:13:23.840 --> 1:13:26.200
<v Speaker 2>treatment center. Then they're not, they're not.

1:13:26.800 --> 1:13:29.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but even to hear that you say, you have

1:13:29.520 --> 1:13:32.679
<v Speaker 1>to deal with death on more than regular right, because

1:13:32.720 --> 1:13:36.000
<v Speaker 1>if they leave and they reuse or what have you.

1:13:36.080 --> 1:13:39.479
<v Speaker 1>So it's like you're constantly it's like a firefighter. They're

1:13:39.479 --> 1:13:42.960
<v Speaker 1>constantly around the trauma. But you've been on the dark side.

1:13:42.960 --> 1:13:44.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how you stay strong.

1:13:45.400 --> 1:13:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Success is too, people like get their kids back and

1:13:48.280 --> 1:13:50.599
<v Speaker 2>become productive members of society. And it's to know that

1:13:50.680 --> 1:13:52.880
<v Speaker 2>we played a small part in that. That that's the

1:13:52.920 --> 1:13:57.040
<v Speaker 2>stuff that keeps us going. For every very sad story,

1:13:57.080 --> 1:14:00.160
<v Speaker 2>there's five really happy stories too. So that's the And

1:14:00.200 --> 1:14:03.679
<v Speaker 2>then obviously like personal life and whether it's self care

1:14:03.760 --> 1:14:06.600
<v Speaker 2>or travel or fun or golfing or exercise or just

1:14:06.640 --> 1:14:10.120
<v Speaker 2>going home to my kids. Yeah, that's work is hard

1:14:10.160 --> 1:14:14.439
<v Speaker 2>for anybody. Any job first responders, Yeah, but.

1:14:14.479 --> 1:14:18.599
<v Speaker 1>Those particular jobs like the nurses the doctors, the what

1:14:18.680 --> 1:14:23.400
<v Speaker 1>you do firefighters like. Sometimes people say that those can

1:14:23.439 --> 1:14:25.360
<v Speaker 1>be like the tougher people to be like in a

1:14:25.400 --> 1:14:29.479
<v Speaker 1>relationship with, because they're constantly exposed to trauma. You could

1:14:29.479 --> 1:14:31.519
<v Speaker 1>be like, how is your day, honeywoo. Me and Sarah

1:14:31.520 --> 1:14:33.240
<v Speaker 1>got into it and as oh, yeah, I went to

1:14:33.280 --> 1:14:35.679
<v Speaker 1>this guy's house he committed suicide, or this young kid.

1:14:36.200 --> 1:14:39.200
<v Speaker 1>That the trauma is like so much that they're almost

1:14:39.280 --> 1:14:40.000
<v Speaker 1>like numb to it.

1:14:40.160 --> 1:14:43.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you can interview my wife next. She'll

1:14:43.200 --> 1:14:45.040
<v Speaker 2>tell you all crazy stuff.

1:14:45.160 --> 1:14:48.000
<v Speaker 1>You guys look so good online. Just a day in

1:14:48.040 --> 1:14:49.200
<v Speaker 1>the life of you. Now.

1:14:51.000 --> 1:14:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Wake up at probably five, I'll go to I'll go

1:14:55.360 --> 1:15:00.960
<v Speaker 2>to the gym, come home, get some desk work done

1:15:01.120 --> 1:15:03.200
<v Speaker 2>at the house before I go to the office. Probably

1:15:03.200 --> 1:15:05.160
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, one hundred or something emails, go usk,

1:15:05.280 --> 1:15:09.080
<v Speaker 2>getting everything organized, go to the office. Have one hundred

1:15:09.080 --> 1:15:11.599
<v Speaker 2>and sixty employees. I have one hundred and sixty employees.

1:15:11.640 --> 1:15:14.400
<v Speaker 2>We've got like twenty two locations in northwest Ohio. Now

1:15:15.080 --> 1:15:20.040
<v Speaker 2>two hundred and seventy beds right now, we'll have over

1:15:20.080 --> 1:15:23.600
<v Speaker 2>three hundred here shortly, and I just I run the

1:15:23.600 --> 1:15:25.640
<v Speaker 2>amith of business every single day. That's What I love

1:15:25.640 --> 1:15:28.080
<v Speaker 2>about it is you'll see a lot of CEOs or

1:15:28.160 --> 1:15:30.880
<v Speaker 2>founders in the addiction treatment space that are just investors.

1:15:30.960 --> 1:15:34.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't have partners. I don't have investors that we're

1:15:34.120 --> 1:15:37.920
<v Speaker 2>not managed by some private equity from a different area

1:15:37.960 --> 1:15:41.360
<v Speaker 2>that doesn't know about what my city needs. I'm doing

1:15:41.439 --> 1:15:44.679
<v Speaker 2>it for the city. I'm in recovery ten years sober.

1:15:44.920 --> 1:15:47.679
<v Speaker 2>I own the company myself, I own the real estate myself.

1:15:48.200 --> 1:15:50.439
<v Speaker 1>How did you get the funding to put it all together?

1:15:51.400 --> 1:15:52.040
<v Speaker 1>You don't want me.

1:15:52.400 --> 1:15:55.080
<v Speaker 2>So slowly, but surely. I worked for another agency for

1:15:55.080 --> 1:15:58.599
<v Speaker 2>a little bit too before I started my own, and

1:15:58.640 --> 1:16:02.240
<v Speaker 2>I was a minority partner in that company. The majority

1:16:02.280 --> 1:16:05.519
<v Speaker 2>ownership did sold sell to private equity. And when that happened,

1:16:05.560 --> 1:16:09.479
<v Speaker 2>it just completely changed, and so I sold. It wasn't

1:16:09.520 --> 1:16:11.960
<v Speaker 2>fun anymore. It wasn't the reason that I got into

1:16:12.000 --> 1:16:15.280
<v Speaker 2>it. It wasn't anything like bad. Just wasn't the quality that

1:16:15.360 --> 1:16:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I expect to provide for people. So I left. I

1:16:18.320 --> 1:16:20.840
<v Speaker 2>sold my equity for pennies on the dollar and took

1:16:20.920 --> 1:16:23.840
<v Speaker 2>that and just reinvested it into my own company. Yeah.

1:16:23.920 --> 1:16:24.360
<v Speaker 1>I love that.

1:16:24.479 --> 1:16:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. When I left, though, I'll tell you that it

1:16:26.960 --> 1:16:29.040
<v Speaker 2>was very scary so I didn't get paid it. It

1:16:29.080 --> 1:16:33.599
<v Speaker 2>was a long term payout, and I went from being

1:16:33.640 --> 1:16:36.040
<v Speaker 2>paid very well to saying I don't like this and

1:16:36.080 --> 1:16:38.200
<v Speaker 2>I need to leave too. I'm not gonna have a

1:16:38.200 --> 1:16:40.960
<v Speaker 2>paycheck for about a year. Yeah, but I'm making this

1:16:41.040 --> 1:16:42.720
<v Speaker 2>jump because I believe it's the right thing to do,

1:16:42.760 --> 1:16:44.320
<v Speaker 2>and it was. It ended up being the best decision

1:16:44.360 --> 1:16:44.920
<v Speaker 2>I've ever made.

1:16:45.120 --> 1:16:48.240
<v Speaker 1>Now, your first space, when you first started, you started

1:16:48.280 --> 1:16:50.200
<v Speaker 1>with one, right, or did you buy it take over

1:16:50.280 --> 1:16:51.680
<v Speaker 1>like another little company or No.

1:16:52.240 --> 1:16:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Everything I've done I've built from scratch, So.

1:16:53.960 --> 1:16:56.840
<v Speaker 1>It was one. So you get that first one your savings,

1:16:57.160 --> 1:16:59.760
<v Speaker 1>You're like, oh my god, that self doubt a little bit.

1:17:00.080 --> 1:17:02.439
<v Speaker 1>Dealing with cash flow problems I love. I love saying

1:17:02.439 --> 1:17:04.920
<v Speaker 1>cash flow problems because every business has to deal with

1:17:04.960 --> 1:17:07.439
<v Speaker 1>it at some point. So you're dealing with that hiring,

1:17:07.920 --> 1:17:10.160
<v Speaker 1>trying to hire the right people and the wrong going

1:17:10.200 --> 1:17:12.519
<v Speaker 1>through that because I think that's like another whole nother

1:17:12.560 --> 1:17:13.160
<v Speaker 1>skill set.

1:17:13.280 --> 1:17:13.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

1:17:13.960 --> 1:17:16.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, So you start to look at HR a

1:17:16.920 --> 1:17:17.799
<v Speaker 1>whole lot different.

1:17:18.439 --> 1:17:22.479
<v Speaker 2>HR is I believe one of the most unappreciated things

1:17:22.520 --> 1:17:27.240
<v Speaker 2>in running business human resources, compliance and in ours revenue cycle.

1:17:27.280 --> 1:17:28.760
<v Speaker 2>If you don't know how to submit claims. You don't

1:17:28.760 --> 1:17:30.479
<v Speaker 2>know how to you can't keep the cash flow coming in.

1:17:30.840 --> 1:17:33.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I do. At some point I'll talk about

1:17:33.960 --> 1:17:36.200
<v Speaker 1>it offline. I want to connect you with this lady,

1:17:36.479 --> 1:17:40.160
<v Speaker 1>Nina Linn out here in Orange County. She started a

1:17:40.160 --> 1:17:42.320
<v Speaker 1>program called wunder Seed. I think you guys would do

1:17:42.400 --> 1:17:46.800
<v Speaker 1>dynamite together. She uses AI to do preventative treatment on

1:17:46.960 --> 1:17:48.799
<v Speaker 1>trauma for youth.

1:17:49.400 --> 1:17:51.920
<v Speaker 2>Awesome. Do you guys should connect?

1:17:52.160 --> 1:17:56.080
<v Speaker 1>Connect? I think you guys would do good because you

1:17:56.120 --> 1:17:57.400
<v Speaker 1>have such passion for it.

1:17:57.600 --> 1:17:59.280
<v Speaker 2>Appreciate it, thank you, I love it. I am. I'm

1:17:59.320 --> 1:18:01.200
<v Speaker 2>obsessed with it, absolutely obsessed.

1:18:01.360 --> 1:18:03.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, truly, I'm going to I want to connect y'all

1:18:03.479 --> 1:18:06.160
<v Speaker 1>because I could imagine great things. And then when you

1:18:06.240 --> 1:18:09.559
<v Speaker 1>do your touring for teaching the youth, is there what

1:18:09.640 --> 1:18:11.240
<v Speaker 1>do people have to do to get you to get

1:18:11.280 --> 1:18:11.960
<v Speaker 1>to their school?

1:18:12.280 --> 1:18:12.760
<v Speaker 2>Just reach out?

1:18:13.200 --> 1:18:13.479
<v Speaker 1>That's it.

1:18:13.560 --> 1:18:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Some of me a LinkedIn message and ask what we're

1:18:15.000 --> 1:18:15.840
<v Speaker 2>going to eat on the show.

1:18:17.200 --> 1:18:20.160
<v Speaker 1>I was surprised it worked. And then do they have

1:18:20.240 --> 1:18:22.240
<v Speaker 1>to have certain budgets and stuff or is that all

1:18:22.280 --> 1:18:23.720
<v Speaker 1>back in you guys figure it all out.

1:18:24.120 --> 1:18:26.439
<v Speaker 2>If it's local for the most part, local like very

1:18:26.439 --> 1:18:28.479
<v Speaker 2>close to Ohio within an hour or so. I'll speak

1:18:28.479 --> 1:18:31.040
<v Speaker 2>for free just because because I love doing it. Obviously,

1:18:31.040 --> 1:18:32.719
<v Speaker 2>if I have to travel and take time off work,

1:18:32.760 --> 1:18:34.800
<v Speaker 2>then I want to be compensated.

1:18:34.200 --> 1:18:36.240
<v Speaker 1>For that and or at least not going the whole.

1:18:36.680 --> 1:18:39.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I can't lose. I can't just want to do

1:18:40.040 --> 1:18:40.680
<v Speaker 2>I love to do it.

1:18:40.800 --> 1:18:41.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:18:41.400 --> 1:18:43.200
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I'm very flexible.

1:18:42.840 --> 1:18:44.800
<v Speaker 1>In your program. Do you think it's way different from

1:18:44.800 --> 1:18:45.519
<v Speaker 1>what Deer was?

1:18:46.200 --> 1:18:50.439
<v Speaker 2>I know Deer, Yeah, absolutely, absolutely so. I don't really

1:18:50.439 --> 1:18:52.719
<v Speaker 2>talk about drugs that much. When I go speak at schools,

1:18:52.840 --> 1:18:55.559
<v Speaker 2>it's out of a forty five minute presentation. I probably

1:18:55.560 --> 1:18:56.719
<v Speaker 2>talk about it for five minutes.

1:18:56.760 --> 1:18:57.840
<v Speaker 1>So then what do you talk about?

1:18:58.040 --> 1:19:03.840
<v Speaker 2>Choices and consequences, about real relevant things that young people

1:19:03.920 --> 1:19:06.840
<v Speaker 2>need to understand. This choice leads to this, and then

1:19:06.840 --> 1:19:09.360
<v Speaker 2>it's a snowball effect, and it's about who you surround

1:19:09.400 --> 1:19:13.760
<v Speaker 2>yourself with, Like your mom used to say that. Yeah,

1:19:13.800 --> 1:19:15.240
<v Speaker 2>I literally say that, show me your friends and I'll

1:19:15.240 --> 1:19:18.040
<v Speaker 2>show you your future. I say that, I say that

1:19:18.160 --> 1:19:20.680
<v Speaker 2>in the presentations. But on the other end of that,

1:19:21.240 --> 1:19:24.920
<v Speaker 2>good choices lead to good consequences. So social media, what

1:19:24.960 --> 1:19:27.559
<v Speaker 2>you're posting on social media today is going to stop

1:19:27.560 --> 1:19:29.640
<v Speaker 2>you from getting into your college of choice or your

1:19:29.720 --> 1:19:32.719
<v Speaker 2>dream job or whatever it might be. You bully somebody

1:19:32.720 --> 1:19:35.519
<v Speaker 2>in high school right now, like that person might be

1:19:35.560 --> 1:19:38.880
<v Speaker 2>interviewing your kid in thirty years. Your kid might not

1:19:38.960 --> 1:19:41.360
<v Speaker 2>get their dream now because you are a bully to them,

1:19:41.360 --> 1:19:44.519
<v Speaker 2>and they connect the dots. It's thinking about things that

1:19:44.560 --> 1:19:47.960
<v Speaker 2>I never thought about, going places, get into vehicles that

1:19:48.000 --> 1:19:50.160
<v Speaker 2>have certain things in them, going to a certain party

1:19:50.160 --> 1:19:54.160
<v Speaker 2>that has certain things going on. It's more just broader

1:19:54.320 --> 1:19:58.439
<v Speaker 2>conversations around some things that kids need to hear today.

1:19:58.760 --> 1:20:01.160
<v Speaker 2>And it's not smoking. It's vaping. Everybody's all the kids

1:20:01.160 --> 1:20:01.639
<v Speaker 2>are vaping.

1:20:01.960 --> 1:20:05.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I like that you do that approach versus the dare.

1:20:06.040 --> 1:20:08.120
<v Speaker 2>I was just, yeah, it's a little bit different. I

1:20:08.240 --> 1:20:09.200
<v Speaker 2>like to do things different.

1:20:09.680 --> 1:20:13.320
<v Speaker 1>Matt. Thank you so much for taking time to let

1:20:13.320 --> 1:20:17.360
<v Speaker 1>me just radically pick your brain and your whole life apart.

1:20:17.560 --> 1:20:18.200
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate it.

1:20:18.240 --> 1:20:21.360
<v Speaker 1>You did introduce me to whole corn and it wasn't

1:20:21.360 --> 1:20:23.519
<v Speaker 1>that bad. It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought

1:20:23.520 --> 1:20:25.640
<v Speaker 1>it was. And I'm so proud of you, and I'm

1:20:25.680 --> 1:20:28.320
<v Speaker 1>so thankful that you share your story every day. I

1:20:28.360 --> 1:20:30.760
<v Speaker 1>don't care if it's a hundred times a day. It's

1:20:30.760 --> 1:20:32.240
<v Speaker 1>always like a breath of fresh air.

1:20:32.520 --> 1:20:34.640
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate it so much. Thank you for messaging me.

1:20:34.680 --> 1:20:36.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad that got the chance to come out here

1:20:36.360 --> 1:20:37.960
<v Speaker 2>spend time with you on a Sunday. I'm going to

1:20:38.000 --> 1:20:40.200
<v Speaker 2>take this to go if you don't mind. It's really good.

1:20:40.320 --> 1:20:42.000
<v Speaker 1>It is right ripping.

1:20:42.240 --> 1:20:42.800
<v Speaker 2>No, it's good.

1:20:42.880 --> 1:20:44.679
<v Speaker 1>It is like floss or something.

1:20:44.720 --> 1:20:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. Yeah, I definitely need floss. I was like this,

1:20:47.520 --> 1:20:48.439
<v Speaker 2>I hope there's nothing there.

1:20:49.120 --> 1:20:51.880
<v Speaker 1>No. Thank you guys for tuning in. You guys keep

1:20:51.960 --> 1:20:55.280
<v Speaker 1>up with Matt Bell M A T, T, B E

1:20:55.439 --> 1:20:58.960
<v Speaker 1>L L on all social media platforms. What books have you?

1:20:58.960 --> 1:21:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Can you talk about the books?

1:21:00.320 --> 1:21:02.519
<v Speaker 2>I wrote a memoir. Yeah, I wrote it myself. I

1:21:02.560 --> 1:21:05.599
<v Speaker 2>actually recorded it myself on audio audio as well, so

1:21:05.600 --> 1:21:07.800
<v Speaker 2>it's on Audible and it's on Amazon. But it's called

1:21:07.840 --> 1:21:10.800
<v Speaker 2>Addiction Alumni, and it is it's my story. It is

1:21:10.840 --> 1:21:13.640
<v Speaker 2>my story for everything that we just talked about, and

1:21:14.280 --> 1:21:16.560
<v Speaker 2>way more like stories that I've never told to a

1:21:16.600 --> 1:21:19.720
<v Speaker 2>lot of people. So it's it is.

1:21:20.360 --> 1:21:22.120
<v Speaker 1>It is like a deeper, very.

1:21:22.040 --> 1:21:24.439
<v Speaker 2>Very deep and very accurate and a lot of details

1:21:24.479 --> 1:21:27.280
<v Speaker 2>about what addiction looks like, but also what recovery looks.

1:21:27.120 --> 1:21:29.599
<v Speaker 1>Like to Okay, Yeah, I'll definitely check it out.

1:21:30.080 --> 1:21:32.840
<v Speaker 2>And everything goes to charity. By the way, all the proceeds.

1:21:33.160 --> 1:21:36.679
<v Speaker 2>There's something about people selling stories like that, not saying

1:21:36.680 --> 1:21:38.760
<v Speaker 2>anything's wrong with it, but I just didn't want to

1:21:38.840 --> 1:21:41.080
<v Speaker 2>profit off of that, off of my stories. All the

1:21:41.200 --> 1:21:42.599
<v Speaker 2>sale proceeds go to charity.

1:21:43.040 --> 1:21:46.519
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, and then that charity helps people in

1:21:46.600 --> 1:21:47.840
<v Speaker 1>addiction or do you choose.

1:21:48.560 --> 1:21:51.040
<v Speaker 2>We chose a nonprofit to determine where the funds go,

1:21:51.120 --> 1:21:54.640
<v Speaker 2>so they're constantly doing needs assessments and they'll dole it

1:21:54.640 --> 1:21:55.640
<v Speaker 2>out as the funds come in.

1:21:55.960 --> 1:22:00.520
<v Speaker 1>That's pretty awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. And then Matt Bell Properties,

1:22:00.680 --> 1:22:04.080
<v Speaker 1>that's what is that? Does that somehow tie to Team Recovery?

1:22:04.160 --> 1:22:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Some of it does, but some of it doesn't. I

1:22:06.120 --> 1:22:06.960
<v Speaker 2>just love real estate.

1:22:07.520 --> 1:22:08.719
<v Speaker 1>Do you do flips and stuff?

1:22:09.080 --> 1:22:11.680
<v Speaker 2>I like to buy and hold? I don't like to buy.

1:22:11.880 --> 1:22:12.599
<v Speaker 2>I buy and hold.

1:22:12.720 --> 1:22:15.679
<v Speaker 1>So like residential, like apartment building type.

1:22:15.439 --> 1:22:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Things, apartments, strip malls, commercials.

1:22:18.800 --> 1:22:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Commercial real estate. You don't think that's risky.

1:22:21.960 --> 1:22:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Some of it is, some of it is. You find

1:22:24.080 --> 1:22:28.280
<v Speaker 2>the right building though with some good credit, strong national tenants.

1:22:28.240 --> 1:22:30.040
<v Speaker 2>Since it's a little bit different.

1:22:29.840 --> 1:22:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, hopefully soon we'll have them at Bell Like financial

1:22:32.360 --> 1:22:36.320
<v Speaker 1>literacy book, I feel like you're definitely gonna have some

1:22:36.360 --> 1:22:37.360
<v Speaker 1>good tips in there too.

1:22:37.400 --> 1:22:39.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, I love it. It's wild and I get

1:22:39.080 --> 1:22:41.040
<v Speaker 2>to do all sorts of cool stuff because of recovery.

1:22:41.120 --> 1:22:42.400
<v Speaker 1>So because of recovery.

1:22:42.439 --> 1:22:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I'm able to be in recovery because of

1:22:44.760 --> 1:22:46.400
<v Speaker 2>my addiction. So everything happens for a reason.

1:22:46.560 --> 1:22:49.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, it's an honor to say with you, thank

1:22:49.200 --> 1:22:51.240
<v Speaker 1>you guys for tuning in. Peace out,