1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,000
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke.

2
00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:06,680
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Coleen Wait, and today I have a

3
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,000
Speaker 1: very special guest and this with all parts of me.

4
00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,600
Speaker 1: Author CEO Matt Bell is in the building all the

5
00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,680
Speaker 1: way from Ohio. Got you to come out here. I

6
00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:17,720
Speaker 1: really appreciate it.

7
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,720
Speaker 2: I'm glad to be here. Thank you. It's awesome.

8
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,080
Speaker 1: Yes, this is awesome. And before we get into Mad's story,

9
00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:25,959
Speaker 1: I have to ask the ultimate question, what are you

10
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 1: going to have me eating today?

11
00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,800
Speaker 2: We're we are going to eat corn on the cob.

12
00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 2: We're gonna eat corn on the cob. I gave some options.

13
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:34,880
Speaker 2: You asked what I used to eat when I was broke,

14
00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 2: and gave you a little variety of what it used

15
00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,519
Speaker 2: to be like. And here we are. We're going to

16
00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:56,440
Speaker 2: do this and I have a really impactful story on why.

17
00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,800
Speaker 1: Just so you guys know the I chose corn on

18
00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,000
Speaker 1: the because the other options was like trash.

19
00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to eat out of the trash cans.

20
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:06,920
Speaker 2: Yeah you're not. We're not gonna do that on the show.

21
00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,000
Speaker 2: I used to obviously like a break. I'd make a

22
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,880
Speaker 2: break all the time at home. You know, break is,

23
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:12,400
Speaker 2: you know what break?

24
00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:15,039
Speaker 1: Is no. Is that one of the options we gave me.

25
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, like in jail, you mix everything together. They're called

26
00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:20,920
Speaker 2: I think they're called different things everywhere.

27
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:22,520
Speaker 1: I've had that on the show, by the.

28
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 2: Way, like I saw it, and it's I should clarify,

29
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,040
Speaker 2: not corn on the cob, but like raw corn.

30
00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:32,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was gonna get into the next guys.

31
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,959
Speaker 1: I love corn on the cob, so you know I

32
00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,039
Speaker 1: love out here in LA they call it, I think

33
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,720
Speaker 1: a low tastes like corn on the cob sweet corn.

34
00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 1: They put like mao and cheese and have you had it.

35
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:43,760
Speaker 2: I've had it.

36
00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 1: It's so amazing. But unfortunately we're not eating that today.

37
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:51,240
Speaker 1: So we're gonna have corn on the cob, but the

38
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,280
Speaker 1: raw version.

39
00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,160
Speaker 2: Raw straight off the rawky out of the field.

40
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 1: And before we get into this story, Matches celebrated his

41
00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,680
Speaker 1: ten years of SOET and I guess backtrack it. I said,

42
00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:06,280
Speaker 1: you're the CEO, a CEO and author. Why don't you

43
00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:10,720
Speaker 1: talk about what you're the CEO of and the books?

44
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, the CEO of Team Recovery Addiction treatment center. I started.

45
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 2: We have two sides of it. We have the limited

46
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,160
Speaker 2: liability side, which actually provides the healthcare services, and then

47
00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:23,079
Speaker 2: we have a foundation side as well, which is more

48
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 2: so wrap round services of in addiction treatment. You can

49
00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,040
Speaker 2: provide all these different levels of care and services, but

50
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,880
Speaker 2: it's all build through insurance. There's a lot of other

51
00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,640
Speaker 2: stuff that needs to be done, like conversations with families,

52
00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,640
Speaker 2: like prevention in schools. There's just so much and you

53
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 2: can't bill insurance for that, and so there's no money

54
00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 2: to pay for those sorts of things, and so we

55
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,440
Speaker 2: started a foundation and we raise funds throughout the ear

56
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:46,880
Speaker 2: in a lot of different ways to still be able

57
00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,600
Speaker 2: to do those things to go, like teach kids that

58
00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 2: choices have consequences. Bad choices have bad consequences, and good

59
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,000
Speaker 2: choices have good consequences. But we're so reactive to everything

60
00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:00,640
Speaker 2: in the world, like we need to get proactive with

61
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,000
Speaker 2: addiction treatment and mental illness and things like that. And

62
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 2: then family support. We know that if somebody is struggling

63
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,200
Speaker 2: with addiction, they've got ten to twenty loved ones around

64
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:12,040
Speaker 2: them that need support too, and so if those ten

65
00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,560
Speaker 2: to twenty people can receive support, the success rate of

66
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,920
Speaker 2: the individual actually goes up. So again that's what the

67
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,920
Speaker 2: foundation does. Started all that stuff about ten years ago

68
00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,200
Speaker 2: when I was in detox. Actually, I was going.

69
00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:23,799
Speaker 1: To say ten years and ten years.

70
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it lined up perfectly. I was two days clean

71
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,280
Speaker 2: when I started it. It was two days.

72
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,600
Speaker 1: Clean, and you were like, already think about helping somebody else.

73
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,400
Speaker 2: Yes, it wasn't really, So I had no clue what

74
00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 2: it was going to turn into, and I wasn't thinking

75
00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,200
Speaker 2: about it the way that it turned into. I just

76
00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,160
Speaker 2: knew that the way that it was being offered wasn't perfect.

77
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,360
Speaker 2: I knew that. And because I'd been to treatment twenty

78
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,480
Speaker 2: eight times. I went to treatment twenty eight times all

79
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,160
Speaker 2: over the country, and so I had seen a lot

80
00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:54,440
Speaker 2: of different kinds of treatment, and I never really experienced anything.

81
00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,840
Speaker 2: It just felt like a very aniquated delivery service delivery

82
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,960
Speaker 2: of healthcare. So why is like all healthcare is evolving

83
00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 2: and getting significantly better. I've been going to treatment for

84
00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,120
Speaker 2: ten years and it feels the same as I did

85
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 2: ten years ago. The twenty eighth time feels like the

86
00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 2: first time.

87
00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,800
Speaker 1: What was this like habitual way they were trying to

88
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,800
Speaker 1: treat you? Because you said twenty eight times, so I'm

89
00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,880
Speaker 1: guessing they were all going the same route every time.

90
00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:20,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the most part. And I'll say this too

91
00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,479
Speaker 2: that I think someone can get sober wherever they want to.

92
00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,880
Speaker 2: You can get sober in the nicest treatment center in

93
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:28,560
Speaker 2: the world. You can get sober in a barn if

94
00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:30,080
Speaker 2: you want to. You get sober at home, you can

95
00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 2: get sober in prison. You can get sober wherever you

96
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,200
Speaker 2: want to and want it bad enough. But so I'm

97
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 2: not like blaming it on the treatment centers. I just

98
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,120
Speaker 2: wasn't ready, is really what it came down to. But

99
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,880
Speaker 2: what I noticed, and what I hear people say all

100
00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,320
Speaker 2: the time, is that they felt like a number. They

101
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 2: just felt like a number and a process. That is

102
00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 2: just it's a medical model, and addiction treatment is very philosophical, right,

103
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,040
Speaker 2: It's just very we need to get to the core

104
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,240
Speaker 2: of what's going on. But it's very okay, come in,

105
00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,360
Speaker 2: do your assessment. If your assessment says this, then go

106
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:00,240
Speaker 2: to this room and then go to that room. It's

107
00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:01,920
Speaker 2: like you go into an er with a broken bone,

108
00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:03,880
Speaker 2: you go into surgery, you get a cast on. It's

109
00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,880
Speaker 2: very process driven, and addiction treatment just shouldn't have to

110
00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,320
Speaker 2: be that way, but it's that's the way healthcare is

111
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:12,360
Speaker 2: in our countries. I felt like a number. I felt

112
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,400
Speaker 2: like I was being like herded through a process instead

113
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,080
Speaker 2: of being seen as a human being. The buildings that

114
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,880
Speaker 2: I went to treatment in were run down buildings. It

115
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,400
Speaker 2: was probably all donated furniture and parts of town where

116
00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,080
Speaker 2: certain people in other parts of town would say, no,

117
00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:30,640
Speaker 2: we're not allowed, We're not allowed to have treatment centers

118
00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,200
Speaker 2: here because we don't have those problems, and so all

119
00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,440
Speaker 2: the treatment centers, because these are individuals that make bad choices,

120
00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:37,960
Speaker 2: You're going to go to this part of town in

121
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,719
Speaker 2: these types of buildings with That's how treatment has been.

122
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,240
Speaker 2: It's how treatment has been. It's a marginalized, oppressed population

123
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,720
Speaker 2: that are seene is less than desirables.

124
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then would you say, I'm going to be

125
00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,640
Speaker 1: all over the place with this, But would you say

126
00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 1: that from your experience with addiction that a lot of

127
00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,159
Speaker 1: it is trauma. I think with your story, your addiction

128
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,599
Speaker 1: came from a different background. We'll get into that. Would

129
00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,640
Speaker 1: you say that a lot of addiction starts from like

130
00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 1: unhealed trauma.

131
00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,200
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the biggest things. Yes, I

132
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,279
Speaker 2: think that there's some sort of pain there, regardless of

133
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,960
Speaker 2: if it's an actual physical pain. See a lot of

134
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,320
Speaker 2: physical pain turning into the opioid epidemic and pain pills,

135
00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,640
Speaker 2: but of emotional pain and whether that's trauma or PTSD

136
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 2: or some sort of underlying unaddressed mental health issue. People

137
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,800
Speaker 2: don't just decide to use substances to the point where

138
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,840
Speaker 2: they need treatment, whatever the substance is, because their life

139
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,200
Speaker 2: is going well, because life is perfect. People don't do that.

140
00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,719
Speaker 2: That's not normal. So if someone's struggling with addiction and

141
00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,120
Speaker 2: they've gotten to that point where there's a diagnosable like

142
00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,520
Speaker 2: severity there, and sometimes I don't even know it, but

143
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,440
Speaker 2: there's something there. In my case, I didn't know it.

144
00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,520
Speaker 1: Oh so there was something there, but yours. Okay, Okay,

145
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,480
Speaker 1: we got to get into your story. We got to

146
00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,880
Speaker 1: get in Okay, Okay, First let's I want to experience this.

147
00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:55,840
Speaker 1: So we're going to go. I wanted to read this,

148
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:57,839
Speaker 1: but you touched on it. But there was this post

149
00:06:57,960 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 1: Matt made this week, and I wanted to read it

150
00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,520
Speaker 1: to you. Guys said ten years ago, I was the

151
00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,039
Speaker 1: guy in the mugshots, the guy in the hospital bed

152
00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,640
Speaker 1: who had people coming to say they're goodbyes. I was

153
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:13,600
Speaker 1: that guy thirteen arrests, twenty eight rehabs, three overdoses, homelessness,

154
00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,840
Speaker 1: no hope left. I called the police on myself that day,

155
00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,560
Speaker 1: thinking I'd spend the rest of my life in prison.

156
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,720
Speaker 1: But God had another plan for me. This was ten

157
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,360
Speaker 1: years ago. That's crazy. It's nuts that you called, but

158
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,880
Speaker 1: you even I guess where. I was a little confused too,

159
00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,400
Speaker 1: is man, what was going on where he called the

160
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 1: police on himself? And then why did you think you're

161
00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 1: going to spend the rest of your life in prison?

162
00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,120
Speaker 2: You have an answer this, Yeah, I called the police

163
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 2: on myself because so it gets cold in Ohio. It

164
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 2: gets very cold in Ohio. Remember the second question, because

165
00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonna forget it, Okay, I got It gets cold

166
00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,160
Speaker 2: in Ohio. This October specifically, it was dropping down below

167
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 2: freezing and I was homeless. I would sleep wherever I could,

168
00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,640
Speaker 2: and I went to my mom's house one night, and

169
00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 2: at this point my mom was not letting me in

170
00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 2: the house anymore, like those days were over. She was

171
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 2: starting to get some help from like family support groups

172
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,120
Speaker 2: about enabling and things like that. So I asked her,

173
00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,440
Speaker 2: I said, Mom, can I just come in the garage tonight?

174
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,080
Speaker 2: She had an unattached garage. I said, can I just

175
00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,040
Speaker 2: sleep in the garage so I can find shelter tonight

176
00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,920
Speaker 2: with a space heater. I just want to it's gonna

177
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,560
Speaker 2: I don't want to freeze. I want to survive the night.

178
00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:21,680
Speaker 2: And she looked at me. She said, Matt, you will

179
00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 2: always be my son, but you're no longer my child.

180
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:25,640
Speaker 2: If you don't get off my property, I'm calling the police.

181
00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,880
Speaker 1: Holy cow, your mom.

182
00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,880
Speaker 2: My mom. Yeah, my mom said that, and then she

183
00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,440
Speaker 2: just shut the door slowly, and that I knew that

184
00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 2: I was hurting my family and not making good decisions.

185
00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 2: That was obviously apparent. My life was unmanageable. But to

186
00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,679
Speaker 2: hear her say what I heard her say is I

187
00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,120
Speaker 2: love you to death and you'll always be my son,

188
00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,160
Speaker 2: but whether you live or die tonight is not my problem.

189
00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:53,560
Speaker 2: And the way that I interpreted that hit something inside

190
00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,840
Speaker 2: that had like never just it had never been hit,

191
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,920
Speaker 2: and so I was actually I had given up on

192
00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:02,439
Speaker 2: the fact that I could be sober, like sobriety is

193
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,040
Speaker 2: not I see that people do it, but it's not

194
00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,000
Speaker 2: for somebody like me. Everything good that I'd done in

195
00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 2: my life, all the sports and the grades and all

196
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:10,800
Speaker 2: the sort of stuff like that was a thing of

197
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,000
Speaker 2: the past. I didn't I didn't know what to do.

198
00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,439
Speaker 2: And I got to this like really scary moment where

199
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,760
Speaker 2: I thought maybe I shouldn't be here anymore. And that

200
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,520
Speaker 2: thought I had never ever thought of that ever in

201
00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,240
Speaker 2: my life. I'm talking about ending my life. And I

202
00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,320
Speaker 2: love life. I love everything about life. I can like,

203
00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:37,280
Speaker 2: I'll have fun eating this corn today. And the fact

204
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,520
Speaker 2: that I was thinking about that absolutely scared me to death.

205
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,800
Speaker 2: And so I was like, I can't get sober. I

206
00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,040
Speaker 2: don't have the courage to end my life. I just

207
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,280
Speaker 2: need to go to prison. And I thought that I

208
00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:49,560
Speaker 2: was going to go to prison because I had a

209
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,480
Speaker 2: fugitive warrant in the state of Michigan. I had a

210
00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:55,800
Speaker 2: felony warrant in the state of Warrants for Michigan was

211
00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,079
Speaker 2: for a second degree home invasion. And so I went

212
00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,280
Speaker 2: into somebody's house. I didn't know that they were home,

213
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,960
Speaker 2: but I went into somebody's house to steal something to

214
00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,560
Speaker 2: feed my addiction, and they were home. And so in

215
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,360
Speaker 2: the state of Michigan, if someone's home when you break

216
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,480
Speaker 2: into to do some sort of theft, they classified it

217
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,600
Speaker 2: as a home invasion in Pennsylvania it was grand theft

218
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,640
Speaker 2: or grand larceny if I don't remember exactly what. It's

219
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:17,839
Speaker 2: a different state by state. And then I also had

220
00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,959
Speaker 2: one in Ohio. It's the same thing, grand larceny in

221
00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,360
Speaker 2: the state of Ohio. So I had three felony warrants

222
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:27,400
Speaker 2: in three different states. If the police caught me. These

223
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,280
Speaker 2: were extrable offenses to where I would went, oh yeah, yes,

224
00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,560
Speaker 2: that's real time. Absolutely, they were looking for me, they

225
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:35,880
Speaker 2: wanted me, and it was just a matter.

226
00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,880
Speaker 1: Of were able to charge you, but they were like

227
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,720
Speaker 1: charging you and releasing you or the cat and then

228
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:41,480
Speaker 1: they release you.

229
00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I had been charged and bonded.

230
00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,160
Speaker 1: Out, okay, And I, like your mom or something.

231
00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,440
Speaker 2: Always had somebody to bond me out. And these were

232
00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,600
Speaker 2: two or three year old cases that I was just

233
00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,920
Speaker 2: hiding every single day on the run, bonded out and

234
00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,360
Speaker 2: was supposed to go back for a court date, and

235
00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:57,880
Speaker 2: then just never went back for the court date, and

236
00:10:57,920 --> 00:10:59,720
Speaker 2: so the warrant was out for me, and so I

237
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,520
Speaker 2: was like, you know what, maybe I should just stop running.

238
00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,040
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call the police on myself and at least

239
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,319
Speaker 2: I'll be safe. At least in prison, I won't be

240
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,040
Speaker 2: able to use drugs. That's what I thought. At least

241
00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:14,560
Speaker 2: my mom will be like semi feel comfortable knowing that

242
00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:18,840
Speaker 2: I'm like not in an alley, completely thrown away after

243
00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:21,960
Speaker 2: an overdose or something. All these thoughts, Prison's the best

244
00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:23,920
Speaker 2: option for me, That's what I thought. I really believe

245
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:24,680
Speaker 2: that there.

246
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,520
Speaker 1: Was no part of you in that when your mom

247
00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,959
Speaker 1: is playing devil's advocate, When your mom is being firm

248
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,400
Speaker 1: in those boundaries and she's that like freezing outside, she

249
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,680
Speaker 1: knows it. I can't imagine what she's feeling to be

250
00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,640
Speaker 1: able to say that, But is there a part of

251
00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,160
Speaker 1: you that she doesn't love me? That's it. She's done

252
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:42,400
Speaker 1: with me.

253
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I thought that for sure. I thought that I

254
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,280
Speaker 2: believe that there was no hope. I didn't think that

255
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,400
Speaker 2: we were going to have a relationship or that was

256
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,120
Speaker 2: going to heal or anything like that. I thought that

257
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,480
Speaker 2: she had given up on me completely, and I was

258
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,160
Speaker 2: mad at her, as if it was like her fault,

259
00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:59,640
Speaker 2: as if she was being mean or something along those lines.

260
00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 2: The end of the day, she had to do it

261
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,160
Speaker 2: was best for her. She had gotten to a point

262
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,200
Speaker 2: through my addiction. She'd never touched those drugs, and she

263
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,320
Speaker 2: didn't have drugs to cope. Every time I messed up,

264
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,200
Speaker 2: I could just get high and not out and not

265
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,480
Speaker 2: think about it. She had to deal with it, and

266
00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,200
Speaker 2: like her life, she became depressed. She gained a bunch

267
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,080
Speaker 2: of weight, her work performance completely just diminished. She had

268
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,600
Speaker 2: to get put on medications, like she stopped cleaning the house.

269
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,920
Speaker 2: Like her life, she was addicted to my addiction, obsessed

270
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 2: with it. She was completely codependent, and especially for the

271
00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,880
Speaker 2: first I would say seven years, she would do anything

272
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,440
Speaker 2: to save her baby, to help me out, anything, because

273
00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:39,720
Speaker 2: I was an adult, but I was still her baby.

274
00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:41,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And she just.

275
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,120
Speaker 2: Whether it was food, if it was a place to stay,

276
00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:47,160
Speaker 2: if it was a ride, if it was pay my rent,

277
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,880
Speaker 2: if it was fond me out, pay for the attorney. Whatever.

278
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,000
Speaker 2: Mom was always there until she wasn't.

279
00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,360
Speaker 1: And she eventually saw the pattern in someone she started

280
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 1: going to like an alanon or exactly is it alan He?

281
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,720
Speaker 1: Is it all the same for? Is that the okay?

282
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:01,240
Speaker 2: Yeah?

283
00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,160
Speaker 1: All right? Yeah, my second question, I guess you answered it.

284
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:04,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

285
00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:06,480
Speaker 1: Did I think I spent spend the rest of my

286
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,600
Speaker 1: life in prison? You answered that? All right? All right? Man?

287
00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,720
Speaker 1: Let's get into this. We're going to go back to

288
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:16,240
Speaker 1: the corn day. What are we doing and describe you

289
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,360
Speaker 1: were telling us and telling me earlier, like you would

290
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:19,240
Speaker 1: be ashamed of this.

291
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I remember there was a point when

292
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,880
Speaker 2: I guess I was like crashing at this other person's

293
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,520
Speaker 2: house that I would use with. We commit crimes, and

294
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,800
Speaker 2: we were just partners in crime, so to speak. We

295
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,640
Speaker 2: were both addicted to heroin and no electricity in the

296
00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:40,920
Speaker 2: like nothing there was. It was just a place. It

297
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,120
Speaker 2: was just shelter really, but there was a church around

298
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:46,360
Speaker 2: the corner from his house that was I think it

299
00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,840
Speaker 2: was like Tuesdays and Sunday or Saturdays. They would do

300
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:50,920
Speaker 2: like a I forget what you call it, like a

301
00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,000
Speaker 2: place where people could go get food that didn't have food,

302
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,840
Speaker 2: and like a food pantry. And I remember I woke

303
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,480
Speaker 2: up late because I was really high. The food pantries

304
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,120
Speaker 2: from five am to eight am or something like that.

305
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,080
Speaker 2: Woke up at seven fifty so I'm like, oh my gosh,

306
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,640
Speaker 2: I haven't eaten in four days. I need to like hurry,

307
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,720
Speaker 2: I need to hurry and get to the food pantry

308
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,640
Speaker 2: because I have to get some food today. They would

309
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 2: give you like a little box. You could take some

310
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,400
Speaker 2: stuff and you'd have enough food for a.

311
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,560
Speaker 1: Week or so, and you knew you had to eat

312
00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:17,800
Speaker 1: and for four days.

313
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, But like food means nothing when inactive addiction, you're.

314
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,160
Speaker 1: Are you still drinking water and stuff.

315
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:28,720
Speaker 2: Still drink water? Yeah? And food, shelter, law, love, None

316
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,680
Speaker 2: of those things mean anything when your brain is hijacked

317
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:34,480
Speaker 2: by a substance like heroin. Like I would if I

318
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 2: had twenty dollars, I'm spending twenty dollars on heroin. I

319
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,320
Speaker 2: am not saving a dollar for anything gas in a

320
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,520
Speaker 2: like nothing. All the money is going on heroin. So

321
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,520
Speaker 2: I just wouldn't eat. And so I get there, and

322
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,640
Speaker 2: I get there late. They had already shut the doors,

323
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:55,280
Speaker 2: and there's a couple boxes of canned goods and things

324
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,440
Speaker 2: like that that required cooking. But there's some ears of corn,

325
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:01,600
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm so hungry right now. I

326
00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 2: have to eat these. I have to eat. So I'm

327
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 2: going to take a couple of ears of corn and

328
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:07,360
Speaker 2: went until an alley because I was embarrassed. I was like,

329
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,400
Speaker 2: I can't eat this corn in front of a shirt.

330
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,560
Speaker 2: I can't let anybody see me eating a raw ear

331
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 2: of corn, and I'm like ducked in this alley, like

332
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,200
Speaker 2: between a garage and a car, as if I'm doing

333
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,760
Speaker 2: something really bad eating a raw ear of corn, and

334
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,240
Speaker 2: I remember I like almost, I feel like I maybe

335
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:25,960
Speaker 2: chipped the tooth. I hope, we don't.

336
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,520
Speaker 1: Hope today it's crazy, though, to think that you're eating this,

337
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,560
Speaker 1: that you were ashamed, right, but now you're going to

338
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,720
Speaker 1: eat this, and I'm going to eat this with you,

339
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 1: and it's an honor to eat this with you. I

340
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:40,680
Speaker 1: sent you a Lincoln Post. She thought it was hilarious,

341
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,520
Speaker 1: but I was like, I can't wait to eat corn.

342
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,280
Speaker 2: I've never been told that by any.

343
00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:47,600
Speaker 1: Corn with you, and you're really good at that. I

344
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,440
Speaker 1: love corn, By the way, I'm the cop. But how

345
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 1: does it feel to know ten years ago you were

346
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,320
Speaker 1: ashamed of it? But ten years now later it seems

347
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:02,040
Speaker 1: like you're crowd that you came from this air to

348
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 1: now you're successful, family, married, author, CEO helping other people

349
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:13,080
Speaker 1: treating addiction, saving families because what I have learned about addiction,

350
00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,720
Speaker 1: it does affect everybody. How does it feel like to

351
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,000
Speaker 1: know that you're about to eat this but instead of

352
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,320
Speaker 1: it being like a shameful moment. It's like a proud

353
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:26,160
Speaker 1: moment on camera, on camera, like people are going to

354
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,200
Speaker 1: be watching this now, You're proud, You're proud.

355
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 2: It feels amazing, it's almost It happens a lot. I'm

356
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,640
Speaker 2: getting goosebumps right now just thinking about it. And it's

357
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:37,760
Speaker 2: hot in here, You're still getting goosebumps.

358
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,080
Speaker 1: You are literally getting bumps like crazy.

359
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,119
Speaker 2: There's I don't even know how to put it into words, sometimes,

360
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 2: but it happens probably once a week, right, sometimes more,

361
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 2: sometimes multiple times a day, that I'm not even supposed

362
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,320
Speaker 2: to be here. I'm not I'm talking about on this earth.

363
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,800
Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to be here anymore. Like the things

364
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,440
Speaker 2: that I went through injecting heroin for ten years straight.

365
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 2: It was the last couple of years of it. It

366
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 2: was fetanyl. The amount of people that are dying from this,

367
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,919
Speaker 2: The amount of people that I watched die. People I

368
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,719
Speaker 2: was using the same substances from the same dealer.

369
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,280
Speaker 1: Did your buddy that you were in the house with

370
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:15,200
Speaker 1: did he make it?

371
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,760
Speaker 2: No? No? Tim, Yeah no, Tim's not here anymore. There's

372
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 2: I appreciate there's so many though I would say I

373
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,600
Speaker 2: don't even know. Probably five hundred people that I know,

374
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,639
Speaker 2: like relatively close with I don't want to say, like

375
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,879
Speaker 2: really good friends, but cross paths with out there. In

376
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,959
Speaker 2: the ten years that I was out there and then

377
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,600
Speaker 2: and then just working in addiction treatment and being in

378
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,800
Speaker 2: the recovery community, thousands Like every day I wake up

379
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 2: to somebody that I know is no longer here.

380
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,639
Speaker 1: So it's a very why goes while they were like

381
00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 1: on the recovery, they relapsed.

382
00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,800
Speaker 2: You see, it happens quite all. I did it myself

383
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,960
Speaker 2: the first twenty seven times of getting sober, went back

384
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,439
Speaker 2: out there, and that's when people are very prone to

385
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,880
Speaker 2: overdose because your your tolerance goes down.

386
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,880
Speaker 1: Overdose three overdose is pretty hot.

387
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is scary. So yeah, very, I'm

388
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,320
Speaker 2: just I'm lucky to be here, grateful.

389
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 1: And you don't like no shade, But you don't look

390
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,400
Speaker 1: like what I would imagine even someone that survived hair

391
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,199
Speaker 1: when drug addiction for that long would look like.

392
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,119
Speaker 2: I get that all the time. Yeah, you know, I

393
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,639
Speaker 2: get that all the time. But what is an addict

394
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:17,040
Speaker 2: look like?

395
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 1: I would imagine bad skin, definitely scarring, like bad teeth.

396
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 1: Your teeth look like not bad at all?

397
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,680
Speaker 2: My teeth, Yeah, they look I don't know how I'm lucky.

398
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,040
Speaker 2: I have no adverse health effects. I'm as healthy as

399
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 2: can be, and I still have my teeth, So I'm

400
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,960
Speaker 2: very lucky. I did not look like this ten years

401
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:35,920
Speaker 2: ago when I got sober. I'll tell you that you

402
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:36,720
Speaker 2: wouldn't let me in.

403
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 1: I saw some pictures of you, like keeled over in

404
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 1: a bathroom, and I was like, it's crazy to look

405
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,280
Speaker 1: at you and those that and all you're standing.

406
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,159
Speaker 2: Here, and that was like decent times. Like I'm telling you,

407
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,520
Speaker 2: I was. Those pictures are nothing. When I was on

408
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 2: the streets, I didn't shower for weeks, I didn't brush

409
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,840
Speaker 2: my teeth, I didn't eat hair just grown out everywhere,

410
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,879
Speaker 2: just wealthy clothes. It was bad. It was bad, Like

411
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 2: I am a.

412
00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 1: In the first seven years. Your mom would just take

413
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 1: you back and forgive you and all that.

414
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was again, she was just obsessed with it.

415
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,639
Speaker 2: She was just scared. She wanted to protect me.

416
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, you ready to ready to get into this.

417
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 1: This is my first time ever.

418
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,280
Speaker 2: Doing trying to get all these little things off so

419
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:19,439
Speaker 2: I don't get them in my teeth.

420
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:22,240
Speaker 1: At first, when you said, hey, we may need toothpicks,

421
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,280
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, well, we need toothpicks, and I'm

422
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 1: like yes, And let me just tell you, I am

423
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,960
Speaker 1: one of those people that have to floss every day.

424
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,840
Speaker 1: My teeth are like really close together, they're like yours.

425
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,239
Speaker 1: If we don't floss, did you know we would get

426
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 1: cavities in between teeth?

427
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 2: Yeah?

428
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 1: Okay, so I think I got this. Here we go, cheers, cheers,

429
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 1: there we go. I've never done this.

430
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,400
Speaker 2: It's not as bad as you think. Yoh.

431
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 1: This literally tastes like it.

432
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,400
Speaker 2: Tastes like it tastes just like corn.

433
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 1: It actually doesn't. I thought it was gonna be a

434
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 1: lot harder. Man, This is not a bad meal.

435
00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:58,919
Speaker 2: I thought this was edible.

436
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 1: You know what it is? I keep thinking of like

437
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:02,880
Speaker 1: the Indian corn where it's all hard.

438
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 2: We're just gonna say that, like the decorative corn that

439
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,719
Speaker 2: you put up during Thanksgiving and stuff.

440
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 1: Guys, I'm not gonna lie.

441
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 2: It tastes pretty good. It's fresh.

442
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,200
Speaker 1: Why does this taste good? Am I chipping?

443
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 2: It's corn? It's fresh corn.

444
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 1: But honestly, is it because I imagine the hard corn?

445
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: Because it's not. It literally tastes like a regular corn.

446
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,879
Speaker 1: It's sweet. Are we can we get sick from eating it?

447
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 1: Wraw loy do people? Is it supposed to be this soft?

448
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:34,399
Speaker 1: Going to be hard?

449
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:38,119
Speaker 2: This is how it's supposed to be, guys. Maybe I

450
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 2: don't know. I hope.

451
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,600
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie, but this cord is actually not

452
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 1: that bad.

453
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 2: It's really good.

454
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 1: Man, you were eating it's really good.

455
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 2: Hey, it got me through a couple more days at

456
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 2: the time.

457
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 1: Look, I got gonna take one bite and done. It's

458
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 1: not bad. And I don't know if it's because I

459
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,320
Speaker 1: love corn, but it's not that bad.

460
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 2: Are we supposed to eat the whole thing?

461
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,439
Speaker 1: No, you can quit. I take one More'm gonna take

462
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,919
Speaker 1: one more way too. I don't even know you can

463
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:05,959
Speaker 1: eat corn raw like that.

464
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 2: I'm sure a lot of people don't know that.

465
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 1: But you want to know something. If you're struggling, like

466
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 1: out there for real and this is what you gotta

467
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 1: do to survive, I would say it's actually not that bad.

468
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,920
Speaker 1: If you love corn, find a cornfield, Yeah that's good.

469
00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: You know what, though I heard corn has no nutritional value, guys,

470
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,119
Speaker 1: but I will rate this as if in all honestly,

471
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 1: and I don't know if it's because I like corns.

472
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,919
Speaker 1: I would give this like an eight. It does not

473
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 1: taste bad.

474
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 2: Corn on the cop right, boiled butter, salt, all that

475
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 2: sort of stuff. This literally tastes like that, obviously without

476
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,479
Speaker 2: the butter and the salt, but cold and it's not

477
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 2: that hard. It's the same texture as corn on the

478
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:44,760
Speaker 2: cop Yeah.

479
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 1: Except for like when you boil, it's a little bit

480
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 1: more like juicier. But honestly, this is fine. I thought

481
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: it was gonna be a lot worse. Who knew.

482
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 2: Sorry, I feel like I'm made a mess.

483
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,520
Speaker 1: That's what we're here for. Yeah, you're good. Yeah, that's

484
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: the only reason I'm not killing it because I know

485
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: my teeth. Well, it's a rep I'm.

486
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 2: Going to have to by the way, you're good.

487
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 1: So take me back ten all the way back to

488
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: home life, and we're going to gradually get to the

489
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,239
Speaker 1: dish point. So we're going to go backwards to like,

490
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: single mom, married, middle class poor. What was the home

491
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: environment when I.

492
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:25,959
Speaker 2: Was a kid. I had to thank you. I had

493
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 2: a great life. I had a great childhood. Mom and

494
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 2: dad were both there, went to private schools, got straight a's,

495
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 2: played three sports, went to church twice a week. Yep,

496
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 2: never saw drugs or alcohol. I would see people have

497
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:41,719
Speaker 2: drinks at a barbecue or something like that, but like

498
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 2: addictively never saw it. It never happened in my home.

499
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 2: No trauma or abuse or anything like that on paper,

500
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,920
Speaker 2: like the perfect upbringing, I broke up with a girl

501
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 2: in seventh grade for smoking a cigarette. Okay, Like I

502
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 2: was obsessed with doing things the right way.

503
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: Okay, So you were like a good kid, like.

504
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 2: The really good, literally perfect, like best athlete, smartest kid

505
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: in the school, straight edges, straight edge gets and then.

506
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: Your master's Now, yeah, I was like, how did he

507
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 1: go from that? Super smart? I was wondering.

508
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went back to school when I got sober,

509
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 2: but I always enjoyed. I still do. I don't think

510
00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 2: i'll ever stop. I love learning. But I went to

511
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: high school, and when I got to high school, it

512
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 2: was culture shock for me. It was the first time

513
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 2: ever in my life that I was uncomfortable ever, because like,

514
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 2: up until fourteen years old, it was it was just

515
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 2: the same thing. And I was never like taught that

516
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 2: at some point you're gonna you're gonna meet the real

517
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: world and it's not just this like really comfortable, yeah

518
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: upbringing that you've had.

519
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 1: What happened, they did it in private and put you

520
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: in public or something.

521
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 2: I stayed in private school, but the private school that

522
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 2: I was in was like twenty kids. It was a

523
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: very small school. So then when I get to high

524
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 2: school and there's a thousand kids at this school. It

525
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 2: was an all boys, Catholic college prep, extremely competitive school.

526
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 2: No longer the smartest kid, no longer the best athlete.

527
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,959
Speaker 2: Just felt uncomfortable for the first time ever in my life.

528
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 2: My father, who I was like, he's the best. If

529
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 2: I can be half as good as him, or even

530
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: a quarter, I'll consider my entire life of success. My

531
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,239
Speaker 2: father passed away on Father's Day my freshman year, and

532
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: it was quick. It was diagnosed with cancer. I lived

533
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 2: with him. My parents separated very close to me going

534
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,240
Speaker 2: to high school, and I wanted to live with my dad,

535
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,520
Speaker 2: and so the last couple of years of his life

536
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 2: it was just him and I. We got even closer

537
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:26,679
Speaker 2: than we already were, and then all of a sudden,

538
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,919
Speaker 2: you've got cancer. And then a couple months later he

539
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: was gone. So that coupled with all these feelings of

540
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 2: insecurity from school, it was just the perfect storm where

541
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 2: I just wanted I wanted to be accepted. I wasn't

542
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 2: okay with what was happening inside me, and I wasn't okay.

543
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: I didn't know how to identify all these feelings. I

544
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 2: certainly didn't know how to address them or cope with

545
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 2: them in a healthy Well.

546
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm like or assessing that there could be a because

547
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: your mom seems like a very active did she see

548
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: like a possible tornado could potentially happen because of like

549
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: the trauma it was like your parents separating, you now

550
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: being very close to your dad, losing your dad and

551
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: going to a new school. That's a lesson. Yeah, I

552
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 1: don't know. I think from an outside that does look

553
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: like a lot for your kids.

554
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: I think my mom at the time my mom was

555
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: dealing with me, she was with my dad instead of her,

556
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 2: and so she was already I think she felt like

557
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 2: she was behind the relationship and she wanted to like

558
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 2: she wanted to work to get that back then. And

559
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 2: then I lose my dad, and so now my mom

560
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,400
Speaker 2: even more is okay, now I'm the parent by default?

561
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, Yeah, respectfully.

562
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And so I think at that time she

563
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 2: wanted to be my friend more than my mom Okay,

564
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 2: if that makes any sense.

565
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, because she's trying to earn that like exactly the

566
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: points that he had, which makes sense.

567
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 2: Like a lot exactly. And it's not that she was

568
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 2: doing like I love my mom, She's an amazing mom,

569
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 2: but like the things that I was doing when she

570
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 2: did find out about them, drinking, I got a DUI

571
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 2: other day I turned sixteen, like the very first.

572
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: That was going to be my next question. So when

573
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: did alcohol and outcohol or possibly drugs entered the picture.

574
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: It started with smoking cigarettes. It's funny because I well

575
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 2: a girl for smoking cigarettes. So like the kids at

576
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 2: the table at the lunch table that I knew smoked

577
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 2: before my dad died, I wanted to I didn't even

578
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 2: want to look at them. I just wanted to avoid them,

579
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 2: like those are the bad kids. And after he died,

580
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 2: I found myself like I need to go sit with

581
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,679
Speaker 2: them because I need to be accepted. I was a

582
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: new kid in a huge school and I just needed

583
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 2: to be accepted. The only thing I had to do

584
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: was inhale.

585
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: But I'm curious now, if you're why did you not

586
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,000
Speaker 1: feel that you would be accepted sitting at a table

587
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 1: of people that weren't doing drugs versus approach of kids

588
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: that were.

589
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,119
Speaker 2: I played sports in high school too, and so I

590
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 2: already had that crew. But when my dad died, it

591
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 2: left a hole in my heart like just a I

592
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: don't know how to explain it other than there was

593
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 2: just a huge void and a huge vacance, and I

594
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 2: just needed more. I needed to fill it with something.

595
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 2: And I tried to fill it with anything that I

596
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: possibly could to take my mind off of it and

597
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 2: bring on some sort of feel good chemical, anything, any

598
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: short shot of dopamine in my brain. And so I

599
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 2: just I wanted the rebel. I felt like rebellious for

600
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 2: the first time in my life.

601
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: So I started with suthing and where you feeling your

602
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: mom like from that perspective, because now at this point,

603
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: you know that they separated right than you lose your dad.

604
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: Your dad probably, i'm guessing, didn't show any animosity towards

605
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: your mom. Did you know why they separated?

606
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,600
Speaker 2: I think no, nothing crazy bad happened. I just like

607
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 2: grew apart. Yeah, I grew apart. Okay, that's a great

608
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: way to put it.

609
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just wondering where the rebellion. Just trying to curious.

610
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 2: But I don't know. Okay, I don't know. I really

611
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 2: don't know. I think I saw. I think I saw

612
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 2: there was something that was attractive about it, and I

613
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: saw these even though originally I had seen these guys

614
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 2: and I thought that they were like not cool kids.

615
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: I saw going to a football game. They had the

616
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: girls around them, you know, and like upperclassmen. I would

617
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: see doing certain things, and I was like, that's cool.

618
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 2: It come if you do it, was copeler. It comes

619
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: with something. Yea. It's not just like socially acceptable, it's expected,

620
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 2: and so I might as well get into it now

621
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: and be the younger kid that is the cool kid,

622
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 2: because I saw apperclassmen doing it. So started with cigarettes,

623
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: but you hang out in a barbershop long enough, you'll

624
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 2: get a haircut, and these kids were. These kids were

625
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 2: drinking and they were smoked. So it just very quickly

626
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 2: freshman year, all of it started happening. But I never

627
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 2: at that age went absolutely crazy with it, like I

628
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: would push it and I would do it more than

629
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 2: anybody else would do. Like I was the wild guy

630
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: in high school, that's for sure.

631
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: So even amongst that pack, you became like the leader issue.

632
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of that pack real fast.

633
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: Everything I've ever done in my life always taken to

634
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: an extreme. Everything doesn't matter if it's like good things

635
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: or not good things.

636
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: I guess you could see, like maybe early on that

637
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: maybe you had some kind of like leadership power, but

638
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 1: maybe at that point you or it was probably hard

639
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: to recognize because even to hear that you jumped into

640
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: a different background and you became the leader, or you

641
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: were like, I'm going to be the if they're drinking two,

642
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to drink three, I'm going to be your

643
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: competitive leadership.

644
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 2: Speor everything in everything.

645
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: Okay, which I guess in that case, I guess a

646
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 1: leader in the wrong swimming pool could be very dangerous.

647
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: Right it can. Yeah, And I'll tell you what do

648
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: I learned a lot. I learned so many different things

649
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: about people, just about human beings and like what at

650
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,479
Speaker 2: that point to tell you any specific thing, just just

651
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: watching people, just listening to people, seeing how they see,

652
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: watching what other mistakes people made. Truly, that's been one

653
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: of the biggest things in my life in recovery, in

654
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: business and an active addiction is watching other people make mistakes,

655
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: not just my own mistakes, but I learned from other

656
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: people more than I do for myself. Okay, so just

657
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: watching how other people move and I listen, you know,

658
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 2: and I just I listened to you. I continue to

659
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: this day. Just focus on what everybody else is doing.

660
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: I think about what everybody else is doing, watch, and

661
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: I'm watching the landscape of how everything is happening in

662
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 2: the world and constantly processing things in my mind. So

663
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's can't put an exact answer on it,

664
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: but I did learn a lot from people.

665
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: I would imagine there's a lot of vulnerability in that space, really,

666
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: because at that point when people are drinking and doing drugs,

667
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: are they talking about real things? Are they talking about

668
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: just fun times? I don't know, because I've never really

669
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: been in those groups.

670
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: I can't say that it was ever really like deep conversations.

671
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: It was probably mostly just fun times, meaningless conversations.

672
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: So how does your mom respond to your first DUI?

673
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: A slap on the wrist. Flap on the wrist. Man,

674
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: I'm not happy about this, but you're better than this, essentially,

675
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 2: is you know how the conversation went?

676
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: Did she was it her first time finding out about

677
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: you and alcohol?

678
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 2: She may have known that I had a few drinks

679
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 2: here and there, but she didn't know that I was

680
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: drinking every weekend at this point. She didn't know that

681
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: I was smoking weed every day. I started the deal

682
00:30:58,800 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 2: with cocaine.

683
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,640
Speaker 1: A little bit too in high school.

684
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, very early. So I remember getting

685
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: picked up from the police station, went to court. She

686
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: paid for the attorney. They gave me a like driving privileges.

687
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 2: You can go to school and practice and work and

688
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: then you have to come home. And I'm like, okay,

689
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 2: that's I get high and drunk before and after school,

690
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 2: like on property, same with practice.

691
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: So this is property. This is a private school.

692
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 2: It's an amazing school.

693
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: Too, and it's Catholic. But these kids are doing this

694
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: on property.

695
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, OK. And it wasn't just that school. It's

696
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 2: kids nowadays. Yeah, And that was in two thousand and

697
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: two when I was on.

698
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: Do you think that the kids that originally do this

699
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: is it because they grow up in a home where

700
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: they see drugs and alcohol, Because in your case, it

701
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 1: didn't seem like you saw a lot of it. Did

702
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: you see your parents smoke or drink?

703
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: No? I never saw them smoke.

704
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 1: Especially if you broke with your girlfriend in seventh grade,

705
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: I'd say the bar was pretty high. But for your

706
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: peers at that time, were they were they do you

707
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: know if they were exposed to like parents that drink

708
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: or smoke or turbulence, because if they're going to private

709
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: school too, I'd imagine they come from decent home.

710
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there was. I think again, I think I

711
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: don't think I should say this. I think that there's

712
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: probably some people that had some things going on that

713
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 2: I had no clue about to this day, still don't

714
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 2: know about, and maybe that's why they did what they did.

715
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: But I think for the most part, at that age,

716
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 2: it was because that's just what you do. And I

717
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 2: and this is like why it's so important for me

718
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: to speak at schools is because I've been there. I've

719
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: felt that, I know the pressure that comes with being

720
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 2: a young person in our world today, and it's only

721
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: gotten worse since I was in school twenty years ago,

722
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 2: so much worse than it is today. The first, the

723
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 2: average age of people using substances is getting younger and

724
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 2: younger every single year. The average age of people using

725
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: like dangerous illicit substances is younger and younger. The average

726
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: age of people having sex for the first time is

727
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 2: getting people. People are there's this message that you have

728
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: to look a certain way, act a certain way, have

729
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: a certain hairstyle, close whatever it might be, say certain things,

730
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: listen to certain music and if you don't, then you're

731
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 2: not going to be part of our crew.

732
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

733
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: And in a world today where everything is social media,

734
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: so the need for approval is higher than it's ever been.

735
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

736
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: And I love doing the primary prevention in schools to

737
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: tell kids like, you don't need anybody's approval, You're perfect

738
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: exactly because if I would have been okay, everybody goes

739
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: through things in life, right, but I would have been

740
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 2: okay with that stress, high school, peer pressure, grades, performance

741
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 2: on the court or on the field, whatever it is,

742
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 2: losing loved ones. If I would have known how to

743
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: deal with that the right way, I wouldn't have felt

744
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 2: the need to seek another sub to seek something else

745
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 2: or other people. It wasn't even substances at first, it

746
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 2: was just approval. I always say my first addiction was

747
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 2: your approval had nothing to do with substances. I just

748
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 2: wanted to be accepted because I couldn't at myself. So

749
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: I always try to tell kids like, you're accept yourself.

750
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 2: You're fine, and find the friends that accept you for

751
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: who you are.

752
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: When you say accept yourself, I would imagine for a

753
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: kid that's even a tough it's simple as But as

754
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: simple as that sounds like, what would they even look like? Okay,

755
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: I accept myself? What do you mean? I accept that?

756
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: I like corn On the cop is that? But if

757
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: I was a teenager, how would you relay that to me?

758
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: I would talk about a who are you surrounding yourself with?

759
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 2: Because if your friends around you are trying to tell

760
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: you you need to do certain things to be you,

761
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: to change yourself from the way that you wake up

762
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: in the morning, if you need to do something different

763
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: than that to alter your mood, your mind, or your appearance,

764
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,839
Speaker 2: if your friends are telling you that those are very

765
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 2: good friends. Like my friends today, they love me for

766
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 2: exactly who I am, the way that I am, how

767
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 2: I am, I don't they don't. It doesn't matter if

768
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 2: I bring a bottle to the party or not bring

769
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 2: a bottle or wear a certain like. My friends love

770
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: me for me. Yeah, you don't see that very often

771
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: in high school.

772
00:34:56,280 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: Yeah. In your case though, playing Devil's there's a couple

773
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: of things. My mom used to say this when I

774
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: was younger, all the time, show me your friends and

775
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: I tell you who you are. That was my most

776
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 1: favorite thing. Let's go see your friends. I'll tell you

777
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,919
Speaker 1: exactly who you are. That's one true. But I think

778
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: acceptance is tricky because when you have people I know

779
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: you just said, oh, my friends right now, they accept you.

780
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: But now, when you have friends that really care about you,

781
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: they're holding you to a certain standard. Absolutely, So if

782
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 1: you went right now home and you pulled out a

783
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: bottle with your whole cruel friends, what's going to happen.

784
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: They're not going to accept you. Do you get what

785
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 1: I'm saying?

786
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: I do. I do.

787
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: So that's where it gets tricky when you say that.

788
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: But that was the second thing. I was going to

789
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:38,640
Speaker 2: say that not only accept me for who I am,

790
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 2: but hold me accountable. That was going to be. That

791
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 2: was literally you said it. You said it now, it's

792
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 2: a one minute but it's the truth because my friend

793
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 2: my friends do hold me me accountable to a certain standard,

794
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 2: and I do the same thing for my friends too.

795
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: Do you think that's part of what being a good

796
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: friend is is accept accepting, but with accountability to be

797
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: your high self.

798
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 2: I think that's a responsibility of a friend. I think

799
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 2: that's I think that's one of the greatest responsibility of

800
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:07,799
Speaker 2: a true friend, a good friend. The people that i'm

801
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 2: and it's not I went from having hundreds and hundreds

802
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: of people in early recovery that I would associate with

803
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 2: and be around, and I would say, I always say

804
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: four quarters is better than one hundred pennies. I have

805
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 2: a few, really, some people are in different countries, some

806
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 2: people are in different states, but really close friends that

807
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: I see and I don't really hang out socially. I

808
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: don't do that a lot. I'm with my family and

809
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: I'm at work, and.

810
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 1: You go to bed early. I saw his LinkedIn profile. Guys,

811
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: if you want to know even more stuff about Matt,

812
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: go on Matt Bell on LinkedIn. I don't know if

813
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: you have social media, yeah, yeah, all of them. Well

814
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: you can follow us, follow me everywhere Matt Bell. But but yeah,

815
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: I do stalk his his LinkedIn. But I'd be learning

816
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 1: a lot. You talk about also making sure that you're

817
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: in bed by a certain time. Because I saw this,

818
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: you said this, and I told my homeboy this the

819
00:36:55,960 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: other day. Nothing good happens outside after ten and I

820
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: was like, actually, he's totally right. If you're trying to

821
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: be productive, nothing good is probably going to happen. It's

822
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: just distraction hours.

823
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,439
Speaker 2: Show me something transformational that happens after ten pm. Yeah

824
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 2: outside outside of ten yeah outside yeah outside yeah, absolutely,

825
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 2: outside and find some good things.

826
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

827
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 2: It's just always, it's just it's chaos my home.

828
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: My I was talking to my friend and he's very productive,

829
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: and he goes, I think I'm going to try Adderall

830
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: and I go to him. I was like Adderall No,

831
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 1: and he'say, I think I'm going to try Adderall again.

832
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,319
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I saw this post by this

833
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: guy that I watch a lot, and he says, you

834
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: should just get more sleep, and nothing good happens after

835
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 1: ten pm. He's I don't think you get what I'm

836
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: using adderall for. I'm like, no, I totally get it.

837
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: You're trying to be more focused. You could be more

838
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: focused if you get at an adequate amount of sleep.

839
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: If he gets up at four am, I said, you

840
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: should definitely be in bed by eight pm. And that

841
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: was my response, and it was because it's.

842
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 2: Like he gets up at four he's got to go

843
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 2: to sleep eight.

844
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're getting up at four that is why, because

845
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: you cannot get up at four am. And I get it.

846
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,279
Speaker 1: We would push ourselves, but thinking that adderall is the

847
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: solution for something that your body can actually give you.

848
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 1: And that's what I swear a true story. This was

849
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: like two days ago, very productive. But I was just like,

850
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: but I used your LinkedIn posts.

851
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 2: That's awesome. I appreciate that makes me. That makes me

852
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 2: feel really good because that's why I make those posts.

853
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 2: And I hope that other people see that sort of

854
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: stuff too. I remember a probation office, actually a probation

855
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 2: officer gave me all these when I was on probation

856
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: got out of jail. All these certain be in the

857
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 2: house by ten, don't go to bars, don't hang out

858
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 2: with anybody else that's committing crimes, all these rules. At

859
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 2: the time, it felt like an absolute punishment. I was like,

860
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: this is terrible. I don't want to do any of

861
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: this stuff. This is absolutely this is if I had

862
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: to live by these rules, this will be the worst

863
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 2: life ever.

864
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: And did you in your brain say, okay, this is

865
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: what a lame person? Yes for Peray, No, I see

866
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: people do this if you're straight up. They're like, oh,

867
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 1: you're straight, you're corny, you don't have a life, you're lame.

868
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 1: But look at what a corny, lame life looks like.

869
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: You're a CEO, you own multiple properties. I'd imagine you

870
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: have a staff, you provide and protect for your family,

871
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: and you're being held accountable and you hold other people accountable.

872
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 1: And if that's what lame or corny looks like, I

873
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: love it.

874
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 2: I love it. Call me lamb. I don't care. I

875
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: adhere to all those rules today.

876
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, without probabi, no probation.

877
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: I'm still living by And I looked at that. I'm

878
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 2: like and every other successful person that I know, every

879
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: other successful person or just like happy person that's like

880
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,360
Speaker 2: truly happy their core like at peace and they're serene.

881
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 2: They adhere to these rules too. Like I didn't really

882
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 2: think about that, And I'm like, man, that's wild, it's

883
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: really wi. He wasn't giving me a punishment, he was

884
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 2: giving me a recipe for success.

885
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 1: But I like that. You can in a non healthy

886
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: state look at that list and go, oh, corny, what

887
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: kind of life is this? And then in a healthy steak,

888
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: oh, oh my god, this is a beautiful. It's all perspective,

889
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: like eating this corn and shame and now eating it

890
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: in this like I've survival and I've what's the word thrived. Yeah,

891
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: that's pretty interesting.

892
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 2: It's nuts.

893
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nuts. It is okay, going back. So your

894
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 1: mom gives you the slap on the wrist for you drinking.

895
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: So you're doing the weed, you're doing cocaine. You now

896
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: have your first du wife. But it doesn't seem like

897
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: you got your I'm Jamaican. My mom would have been

898
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 1: like annihilated. I would you would be going to my funeral,

899
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: Like what IMMI? Grandparents are hilarious. If you're a child

900
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,919
Speaker 1: of any type of immigrant, you already know that you're

901
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: just not you're not even returning home police like just

902
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,319
Speaker 1: keep me here, do't let me go back to them.

903
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 1: But no, okay, so she's she's earning your your cold points.

904
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: It seemed though, like growing up she probably was a

905
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 1: little stricter. So but maybe there is also a little

906
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: leniency because she knows in the back of her mind

907
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: that you lost your father.

908
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, she doesn't want to be too hard.

909
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: Too hard, Okay, So life prevails. You're going through high school,

910
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: where does the harder drugs get in.

911
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:15,960
Speaker 2: Went to college graduates. So I graduated that that school

912
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:16,719
Speaker 2: with a four point zero.

913
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 1: Even as a little ALKI person, I.

914
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 2: Never had any consequences, That's what I'm.

915
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: But you were also addicted either then.

916
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,359
Speaker 2: No, I wasn't addicted, but I was like the part

917
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 2: You go talk to anybody I went to school with

918
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 2: that knew me back then, They'll be like, yeah, Matt

919
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 2: was wild. He was the part, the partier in the

920
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: school and not just my school, like my whole town.

921
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: But how are you four point zero? And I'm guessing

922
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: this is a small town.

923
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 2: It's not a it's the fourth biggest town in Ohio.

924
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: Oh okay, but you were the you were the most.

925
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 2: I don't know, nothing, nothing compared to La to them.

926
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so it's Ohio. But you were the king

927
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: of the scene. But I'm a little confused. So how

928
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: are you able to maintain a four point Oh? Is

929
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: your mom holding some kind of I'm just really.

930
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 2: Good at balance, at managing chaos. I always have been.

931
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 2: I've been really good in my life at managing chaos.

932
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 2: I think that's why I survived my addiction.

933
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: I think you have natural equalities of a leader. Thank you,

934
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: because I think that to be an entrepreneur, or to

935
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: be a leader, you have to be able to be

936
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: the calm in the storm. You can't show those emotions.

937
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: If you were to panic right now in front of

938
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 1: your team, the entire team would question everything. Right, So,

939
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: say you found out bank accounts are clai, payrolls do

940
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: on Friday? Right, whatever reasons, cash flow mount everest hits.

941
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: You could never turn to your staff and be like,

942
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: so that's what I mean by there's this throughout your

943
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: whole life. You could see that there's this natural born leader, right?

944
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,479
Speaker 1: Do you see it? Am I just pointing it out? Okay?

945
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 2: I love the pressure.

946
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: I thrive in pressure, maintain a four point Oh that's geez.

947
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: But you must be really good at school too.

948
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 2: Are you excelled? Yes? And yes, yes, I've always learned

949
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 2: very quickly. I enjoy learning.

950
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,440
Speaker 1: Yes, And you're a big reader.

951
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 2: I don't really know. I like audiobooks more than actually reading.

952
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: I don't enjoy reading. Yeah, I listened to audio more

953
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:11,959
Speaker 2: than reading.

954
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: I do both now, guys, But I have photographic micro photographic.

955
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: When I read, I'm the opposite.

956
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, I can't if I'll read a page because

957
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 2: my mind is in so many places I think about.

958
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: I'm constantly thinking. So if I read, I'll get done

959
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 2: with the page and be like, what did I just read?

960
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 2: I don't even remember what I just read.

961
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 1: But if I listen, the book is not great yet

962
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: that I'll have. Yeah, there's some people like C. S.

963
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: Lewis can be a little bit of a runner on

964
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: a page. All right, No, that that's a book I

965
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't recommend for you if you would be in lou

966
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 1: gotcha gone, Okay.

967
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 2: See what you're saying. You know what I like about audiobooks?

968
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 2: So seriously, is I can speed it up? I have

969
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 2: the control. Like reading, I'm I can only read so fast,

970
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 2: regardless of how good of a reader I am, I

971
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 2: can only read so fast. But if I can turn

972
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 2: an audiobook on two x or three X and get

973
00:43:59,120 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 2: a book done in.

974
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: An hour, see my So we're opposites in the sense

975
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 1: that if I read a book on audio, and like

976
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: I said, it depends how the person writes. Right. There's

977
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: some really great writers and there's some people that like

978
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 1: some of the psychology books. I feel like sometimes those guys,

979
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 1: some of the words they use. I'm like, bro, let's

980
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: get through this chapter. Those I would probably have to

981
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 1: do two x but at this point I've semi checked

982
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: out and I'm scared I'm going to miss miss like

983
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: the meat and potatoes. That makes sense, But I do

984
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 1: a mix of audio now because it makes sense because

985
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: it's easier. But good to know about Youah, all right,

986
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: So back to you. When do you get to the exlicit?

987
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 2: Is it?

988
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: Exlicit?

989
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 2: Illicita college happened in college, full ride to the university's

990
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 2: leado to Division one college in our city playing baseball,

991
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 2: which was my dream. And I hurt my shoulder in college,

992
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 2: and so I had a minor surgery, just an outpatient surgery,

993
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: and that was the first time. I left that surgery

994
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: in and out two hours with ninety percocets. Now they

995
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,120
Speaker 2: don't do that anymore. They don't prescribe that many pills

996
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 2: at once, but at that time they did, and that

997
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: was my first time doing opiates.

998
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 1: I had taken pills. Are opiates?

999
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, okay, yep, So I had taken pills.

1000
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: They do they tell you that, Yeah, they do. I

1001
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 1: think they say, hey, this is percocets, it is an opiate.

1002
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 2: I don't know if they say those exact words, but

1003
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,399
Speaker 2: like on the discharge paperwork, it says all that sort

1004
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 2: of stuff at that time, I certainly don't remember them saying,

1005
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 2: hey be careful with this, this is an addictive substance.

1006
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 2: This is all during the opioid epidemic, when it was

1007
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:40,279
Speaker 2: being marketed as a non addictive description pain killer. So

1008
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 2: I don't think that there was a ton of drug education,

1009
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 2: and truthfully, I think even in our world today, there's

1010
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 2: more that they can do with that.

1011
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, because they talk about pop songs, I did

1012
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: not even opiate.

1013
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so they give molecularly on a molecular level,

1014
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 2: if we were to break down a percocet and heroin

1015
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,839
Speaker 2: are essentially the same thing.

1016
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: Are you serious opioids?

1017
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 2: Yes? Wow, yep, Okay, fetanyl carpetanyl heroin, percocets, oxycotton morphine, deluded.

1018
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: These are all of the opioid class, and so they

1019
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 2: all attached the same receptors in the brain and cause

1020
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 2: the same reactions. Yeah.

1021
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,720
Speaker 1: When I was in Upstate New York the senior year

1022
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 1: of my high school, I remember them lacing weed with

1023
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: this brown substance and I forgot what they called it,

1024
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: but it was a derivative of the opioid, and that

1025
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,399
Speaker 1: was like the first time I remember saying something around

1026
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: my dad, and my dad was like, opioids is heroin

1027
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: if you grow up in New York, but like heroin

1028
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: addiction is. My parents used to scare straight. They'd be

1029
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: like doing the lean, yeah, be like yo, that person

1030
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: was a doctor and they gave they lost their whole

1031
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 1: family and one night, for sure smoked a cigarette and

1032
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 1: then they went on heroin like okay crett, yeah, okay,

1033
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 1: never smoked a cigarette. They would love to do that.

1034
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: You see someone in the lead, they'd be like that person.

1035
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: They was living in a mansion somewhere and they give

1036
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: this whole speech.

1037
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 2: And you that was it opium stuff.

1038
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: It was probably it was some kind of maybe it

1039
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: was opium. I don't remember. I am the polar opposite.

1040
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: I'm one of those. If I have a cocktail, I

1041
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: take three SIPs and I'm like, eh, that my think.

1042
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 2: Good for you, Yeah, good for you.

1043
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: I'm very, very lucky, very I.

1044
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,799
Speaker 2: Can't understand that. My wife's the same way.

1045
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's I was with my dad and this

1046
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: lady and they're like, oh, you order drink and I like,

1047
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: ordered the fruity one and yeah they knew. And my

1048
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 1: dad was like, I was like, yeah, I didn't feel

1049
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 1: too good. He's oh, your whole drink was still there.

1050
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: Would you drink two SIPs? I was like, yeah, still

1051
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: didn't feel good.

1052
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, But that's where it started. It started in college

1053
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: after the I remember taking the first one and falling

1054
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 2: in love with it. I liked substances, I liked being

1055
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 2: under the influence and having fun socially. But when I

1056
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 2: experienced percocets for the first time, I wanted to feel

1057
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 2: that way every day for the rest of my life.

1058
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: Did your mom have any idea of the severity of

1059
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: what percosetes were at the.

1060
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: Time, No, nobody did.

1061
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: So you were responsible doling it out to yourself. And

1062
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 1: at this point you're in your twenties, right, Yeah.

1063
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 2: I'm playing baseball. I'm nineteen at the time.

1064
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 1: Well, are you in your dorms?

1065
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: I'm in I had my own house, I have my

1066
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,400
Speaker 2: own college house, I have my own party house.

1067
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: Of course you're mad.

1068
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, I'm doing the thing, same thing. Two

1069
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: beers is good, five must be great. If one percoset

1070
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 2: is this good, then I wonder what three or four does,

1071
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 2: and that that prescription was supposed to last for I

1072
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 2: think like forty five days. It was gone in a week.

1073
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I saw on your LinkedIn. Yeah yeah,

1074
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,319
Speaker 1: I saw that. I was like, damn, like one week

1075
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: that was it? Yeah, And I think you said like

1076
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: the whole bottle was gone. I was like, oh yeah,

1077
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 1: oh snap. And then at that point did you know

1078
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: you had a problem?

1079
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 2: So I woke up the next I actually didn't even

1080
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: fall asleep when I took the last one. I started

1081
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 2: to go through withdraws like I was physically dependent, not

1082
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 2: like anything crazy, but I was starting to experience some

1083
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 2: minor withdrawal symptoms, like what sleeplessness like restless, leg tossing

1084
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 2: and turning hot and cold sweats, some nausea. Just laid

1085
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 2: up all night feeling like that, and I was like,

1086
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: I've never felt like this before. So I'm looking online.

1087
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:27,280
Speaker 2: What are these symptoms and everything? It's opioid addiction, chemical dependency, substance.

1088
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 2: Like all the results, I'm like, no, let me go

1089
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 2: to page two of Google. How often do you go

1090
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 2: to page two of Google? You find your results right there.

1091
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to page.

1092
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 2: Three on to page four page five, it's all addiction.

1093
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: I'm like, I am not an addict. I'm a d

1094
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 2: one athlete with a full ride. I'm gonna go pro someday.

1095
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 2: I was being watched by pro scouts as a freshman.

1096
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 2: I'm not an addict, not an addict. I don't look

1097
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 2: like an addict.

1098
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 1: And you're not. You're looking up answers, but you're nowhere

1099
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: and you're going, hey, can I get another purposet?

1100
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,319
Speaker 2: So that's what I did. I called a friend and

1101
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 2: I was like, I feel this way. What do I do?

1102
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 2: Everything's saying addiction, what and I do? I gotta go

1103
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 2: to class, I gotta go to practice. And my friend

1104
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:04,879
Speaker 2: was like, go buy a pill for the first time. Now,

1105
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,760
Speaker 2: go buy know somebody who can buy a pill from.

1106
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 2: Take the pill, and if you feel better, then you

1107
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 2: are addicted. And I was like, that's actually really genius.

1108
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 2: Let me go. That's a good idea. Let me go

1109
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: buy drugs illegally now. And that was the first time

1110
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 2: I did it. And that was the first time I

1111
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 2: was introduced to like a pill.

1112
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: Like a pill, it does sound like a good idea.

1113
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 2: Makes sense, like the process of elimination.

1114
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: It does, But then you think if you are an addict,

1115
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: then you just literally lit.

1116
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:33,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, you just kept it going. Yeah, I just kept

1117
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: it going.

1118
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: But I liked that it was like youth and youth

1119
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,479
Speaker 1: trying to solve a problem. I would have totally given

1120
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,800
Speaker 1: you like not me now, but I could see someone

1121
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: like being like, we'll solve this problem right now. Okay,

1122
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: it does make sense. Okay, so I can't even hate

1123
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 1: on the friend there. That was logic. But then it's okay.

1124
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: So then you find out, you find out, but even

1125
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 1: just pursuing the illegal route.

1126
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I found out. I was like, because I

1127
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 2: took it and feelings went away right, well better, I

1128
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: felt fine again very quickly, and I was like, oh

1129
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 2: my gosh, I am like reliant on these. I wasn't.

1130
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 2: It wasn't addiction yet. I wouldn't call it addiction yet,

1131
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 2: but physically dependent on them to wear it.

1132
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,000
Speaker 1: And you were smarter, not smart enough at the time.

1133
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: But that's weird that you like knew in that moment.

1134
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:22,240
Speaker 1: You were like, I need this to feel good, that's.

1135
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 2: How So there are certain substances that cause withdrawals, and

1136
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 2: there's certain substances where it's just mental obsession with opioids.

1137
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 2: It's the mental obsession, but it's also physical with draws,

1138
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 2: and if you don't have them every single day, you're

1139
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 2: deathly sick. The withdrawals from opioids are terrible. The same

1140
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:39,279
Speaker 2: thing that I did that day to feel better to

1141
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:41,279
Speaker 2: go to practice and go to school, I had to

1142
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 2: do the next day too, And then I had to

1143
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: do it the next day or else I was going

1144
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 2: to be sick feeling those feelings of shaking hot. I

1145
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 2: couldn't go to practice that way. It's like you're throwing up,

1146
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 2: you're vomiting.

1147
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 1: What drugs can you take that don't give you a

1148
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: physical withdrawal?

1149
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:03,160
Speaker 2: So every substance, even sugar, I mean like everything, nicotine, alcohol,

1150
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:07,439
Speaker 2: every substance, if you use it enough for long enough,

1151
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 2: it's going to cause it's going you're there's withdrawal scales

1152
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 2: for all substances. Some are obviously more significant than others,

1153
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 2: but I would say the least physical withdrawals are going

1154
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 2: to be like marijuana and cocaine and.

1155
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,400
Speaker 1: Sugar, right because now you're gonna be a little paranoid. Sugars.

1156
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 2: I don't know when I eat a lot of sugar,

1157
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,720
Speaker 2: if I'm like on a bad, like stretch for three,

1158
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 2: four or five months of just eating sugar all day

1159
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:33,280
Speaker 2: every day, and I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna stop.

1160
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 2: Have you ever done that? Just like cut off sugar.

1161
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: No, I've.

1162
00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 2: Cut off carbs. Oh my gosh. The next day after that,

1163
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 2: terrible headache, can't sleep. Sugar is wild, Sugar is Sugar

1164
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,359
Speaker 2: is crazy. Go down a deep dive of how like

1165
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,840
Speaker 2: bad sugar is for our bodies and for our brains.

1166
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 2: It's wild.

1167
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,680
Speaker 1: Now now I'm thinking that I give my kid like

1168
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: skittles to teach her how to learn how to read.

1169
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 1: So I do this thing like yeah, I do this

1170
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,839
Speaker 1: like tutoring every morning, but after they eat breakfast, I'll

1171
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 1: be like, hey you can have skit how much candy

1172
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: do you earn? But now I'm thinking like, could I

1173
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: be creating an addiction?

1174
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,440
Speaker 2: No, in moderation, I think most things.

1175
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:16,600
Speaker 1: Five skitlls every day.

1176
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think she's fine.

1177
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, let's go back to your story. Okay, I'm learning. Okay,

1178
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: this this has my brain working. Okay, So now you're

1179
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: one perpose at a day, you're spending your harder money,

1180
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 1: but you're getting this illegally at what point do you

1181
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: start to say this is not good.

1182
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,560
Speaker 2: When I really started to notice, like my behavior and

1183
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 2: performance slipping, like I lost like when I was when

1184
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 2: I went to college, I put on so much lean

1185
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,359
Speaker 2: muscles in the best shape ever. All my muscles started

1186
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,399
Speaker 2: to fall off. I was late to practice, not doing

1187
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,600
Speaker 2: the extra work outside of practice. Late my grade started slipping.

1188
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, this is this. And then I

1189
00:53:58,560 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: had to go from percocets to oxy because percocets didn't

1190
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:01,920
Speaker 2: do it for me anymore.

1191
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: When you say do it for you, your body withdraws

1192
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: or it just didn't feel like a good high.

1193
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 2: It both If I your tolerance goes up, and so

1194
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 2: you either need more or you need something stronger to

1195
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 2: produce the same effect. And so to get high anymore,

1196
00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 2: I had to do more, and to do three or

1197
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 2: four percocets. That that's expensive. Let me just get one

1198
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 2: oxy cotton to get that. Because oxyctins, depending on the milligram,

1199
00:54:26,239 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: is stronger than at the time oxyconton was stronger. I'm

1200
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:33,400
Speaker 2: talking about OxyContin not oxy content, which are like a

1201
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 2: completely different like back in the day. And people will

1202
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,759
Speaker 2: know if they know five O six the real oxies,

1203
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 2: those things were like the purest form of any sort

1204
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 2: of opioid. You could you could snort it, you could

1205
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 2: swallow it, you could inject it. What I started to do.

1206
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 2: I started to do that with oxycotton and then yeah.

1207
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: Because I was going to say at some point I

1208
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: would imagine when you get to the needle part, like okay,

1209
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 1: go yeah.

1210
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: I watched how to my friends and I because we

1211
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 2: all started doing it together. We started we watched how

1212
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 2: to inject on YouTube at the time. There was a

1213
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:09,839
Speaker 2: video that would show you how to do that.

1214
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: What would lead you to guys to want to inject

1215
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: versus like just swallowing it.

1216
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,480
Speaker 2: We're always trying to to get a better hide because

1217
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,200
Speaker 2: the hide after a certain amount of time isn't as good,

1218
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: and so it's like, how can we level this up?

1219
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,759
Speaker 2: And it sounds so crazy, but when you're once you

1220
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 2: cross that invisible line, it's that's just the way that

1221
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,839
Speaker 2: the brain thing just doesn't make sense to for us,

1222
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 2: like talking now, it makes no sense, and for many

1223
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,279
Speaker 2: listeners it won't make any sense. But when you're in it,

1224
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,080
Speaker 2: it makes nothing but sense. So we watched a video

1225
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:40,919
Speaker 2: and these are.

1226
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: Friends that are going to college with you, you.

1227
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,440
Speaker 2: Know, some of them probably in college at the time,

1228
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 2: you know, and the rest of them were just like

1229
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:50,399
Speaker 2: friends from high school. A lot of my friends got

1230
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 2: hooked on oxy conton at that time. It was like

1231
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 2: it was a very common thing. We were all parties.

1232
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 2: Weren't like beer pong anymore. Parties were snorting lines of

1233
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 2: oxy conton off.

1234
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 1: It elevated.

1235
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of us are doing it.

1236
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:08,720
Speaker 1: So this is but you're out there in Ohio.

1237
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,239
Speaker 2: I'm in Toledo, Ohio. I'm in my hometown. I'm still

1238
00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 2: in my hometown.

1239
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: I heard like, when you're dealing with addiction and stuff

1240
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: like that, you got to get away from where it is.

1241
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 2: I don't I think that. I think that can help

1242
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 2: for some people. But everywhere you go, you take yourself

1243
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,399
Speaker 2: with you, and there are drugs everywhere in the world,

1244
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 2: and so just there's no geographical care to addiction. You

1245
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 2: can't just I'm going to go to Hawaii for six months,

1246
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 2: not do drugs and then return or not return. You

1247
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,120
Speaker 2: can stay in Hawaii the whole time. And if you

1248
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 2: don't work on yourself and why you started doing things

1249
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 2: in the first place, you're going to continue to do

1250
00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 2: those things in Hawaii.

1251
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 1: But in your case, your stuff was No, it wasn't.

1252
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 1: I was gonna say yours was accidental, but no, it wasn't.

1253
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:58,799
Speaker 1: Not really because had had you the whole situation with

1254
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 1: your not if if you go further back, right, you

1255
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: were that whole transition from high school losing your dad

1256
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,399
Speaker 1: to switch off to your mom. Like I guess, if

1257
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 1: that whole story kind of didn't unravel, maybe none of

1258
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: this would.

1259
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,000
Speaker 2: Have Probably not right.

1260
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: Probably not because I was going to blame it on

1261
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,919
Speaker 1: like that whole surgery, but not because at that point

1262
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: you were already used to trying different things.

1263
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it goes back to my dad

1264
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 2: for sure. And I didn't realize that. I didn't realize

1265
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 2: that until my twenty eighth treatment center that I went to.

1266
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: So how did you discover it?

1267
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 2: I know I'm getting a very good therapist, so pill Mills,

1268
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 2: I'll close the loop there really quick. Oxy cotton took

1269
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 2: off after percocets. I dropped out of college, started getting arrested,

1270
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:47,520
Speaker 2: working like meaningless jobs, went back to mom's house, in

1271
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 2: and out of rehab. Arrests started happening. Just like the

1272
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 2: real chaos of this is no longer dabbling. This is

1273
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 2: no longer just dependency, full blown addiction, and everybody knew it.

1274
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 2: You knew it, Oh yeah, absolutely. I was like you

1275
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 2: not a rehabit and but.

1276
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 1: You knew it after that first pill, right, that little

1277
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: pill test. That's when you knew it.

1278
00:58:08,440 --> 00:58:10,960
Speaker 2: I knew that I was dependent on it, like addiction

1279
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 2: for me, so physical dependency on something. It doesn't progress

1280
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 2: to like actual diagnosable severe addiction like opioid use dependence

1281
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 2: until you continue to use despite consequences. There was no

1282
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 2: consequences after those seven pills. I was still like, no

1283
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 2: consequences once I started getting in trouble, once I started stealing,

1284
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 2: once I started getting into debt, once I had dropped

1285
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,280
Speaker 2: out of school, and I still do those things. Now.

1286
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 2: Now it's addiction. You look at how is my life?

1287
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 2: What are all these factors happening around? That's full blown addiction.

1288
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,320
Speaker 1: That's sounds like you do it despite the consequences.

1289
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:50,959
Speaker 2: Correct, And I had every reason in the world to stop.

1290
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: Like on paper, Matt, what are you doing? What are

1291
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 2: you doing? It's denial. It's all these sorts of things.

1292
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 2: But that's addiction. It just does not make sense, just

1293
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense. At all.

1294
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 1: Okay, that's interesting. So now where did we were.

1295
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 2: We were got to heroin because oxy cotton they shut

1296
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 2: down all the pill mills. They all got raided at

1297
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 2: the same time. In northwest Ohio and southeast Michigan. They

1298
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 2: all got raided and that's when the cartels brought in.

1299
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 2: It was actually real heroin at the time. Now it's not,

1300
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 2: it's all fentanyl. So then I started shooting harrow and

1301
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:24,880
Speaker 2: that was like, that was actually a relief because I

1302
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,360
Speaker 2: was spending three four hundred dollars a day on oxy cotton.

1303
00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: How are you making how much money?

1304
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 2: You just I inherited money from my dad and I

1305
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,800
Speaker 2: spent it all gone, mag I spent it all in

1306
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 2: nine months.

1307
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: But wait, your dad left when you were like fifteen

1308
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 1: or sixteen, so I didn't inherit it till later correct

1309
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: at what time, like twenty two, fifteen and a half?

1310
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 2: Oh my, And it was gone by nineteen and a half,

1311
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 2: so that it was a wild run while I had

1312
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 2: that money. But once it was gone, then I had

1313
00:59:57,480 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 2: to start committing crimes and doing all sorts stuff to

1314
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 2: feed my addiction. But four hundred dollars on oxy cotton

1315
01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 2: versus thirty dollars forty dollars a day on heroin. It's

1316
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:11,120
Speaker 2: a no brainer. Yeah, and it's the same thing, so yes,

1317
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 2: switch to heroin and then just start Stuff started getting

1318
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 2: really bad when I started using heroin. It was so

1319
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 2: much stronger. The physical withdrawals were worse. So that's when,

1320
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 2: like rehabs really started to happen overdoses, the arrest.

1321
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:28,919
Speaker 1: The rehabs happened because withdraws were really bad.

1322
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 2: No, because I was getting in trouble. Everybody else wanted

1323
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: me to go.

1324
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 1: Okay, everybody wanted you to go.

1325
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 2: It was always a judge or a probation officer, or

1326
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 2: my mom or a girlfriend. I never wanted to go.

1327
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 2: Somebody else always wanted me to go.

1328
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: At what point, why is it that you wouldn't want

1329
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: to go?

1330
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,840
Speaker 2: I just wasn't I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready.

1331
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 1: I did like you knew the consequences were bad, but

1332
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: you just didn't care. And I guess that there was

1333
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 1: a definition of addiction is right. Yeah, it's just a

1334
01:00:58,560 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 1: vicious cycle.

1335
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 2: It's a cunning, baffling, powerful, insidious brain disease that you'll

1336
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: never understand until you have to understand it. Like for

1337
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 2: me to explain it to you or to anybody. If

1338
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 2: I've never tasted chocolate before, tell me what chocolate tastes like.

1339
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 1: It's the greatest thing on earth.

1340
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 2: I think corn on the cob is the greatest thing

1341
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 2: on earth. So if you're telling me it's the greatest

1342
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,240
Speaker 2: thing on earth, my mind goes to I love chocolate.

1343
01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:28,400
Speaker 1: I should be able to answer this question. But I

1344
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:32,120
Speaker 1: love that you're proposal of this because I honestly other

1345
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:36,480
Speaker 1: than chocolate. Like if I always say, like if someone said,

1346
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:38,360
Speaker 1: go the rest of your life without chocolate.

1347
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 2: I always hear people say it's sweet, it's sweet, it's creamy, creamy.

1348
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:51,160
Speaker 2: Dark chocolate can have a bitter taste to it. So

1349
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,040
Speaker 2: I hear these things, I'm like, okay, sweet strawberries, bitter lemons,

1350
01:01:56,600 --> 01:02:01,840
Speaker 2: creamy mashed potatoes. Do am I am? I thinking about

1351
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,960
Speaker 2: an accurate depiction of chocolate. So if the only way

1352
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 2: that I will ever fully understand is to put these

1353
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 2: chocolate in my mouth and taste it for myself, And

1354
01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:13,080
Speaker 2: it's the same thing with addiction, it just doesn't make sense.

1355
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 1: But the only difference is that say, you and I

1356
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,919
Speaker 1: both like chocolate, right, but I'm the one that. Let's

1357
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: just say I was addicted to chocolate, but it doesn't

1358
01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 1: have the same effect. Say you're a vanilla person, right,

1359
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 1: then would you even still understand it?

1360
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 2: I might understand a little bit more. I think I

1361
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 2: might understand it a little bit more because I would say,

1362
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 2: that's like someone who is addicted to alcohol versus someone

1363
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 2: who's addicted to another substance. The addiction is the same,

1364
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,200
Speaker 2: but I'll never really understand. There's a common denominator of

1365
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 2: what it's like to be addicted to something there, I think.

1366
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 1: So, do you think people that aren't addicts have a

1367
01:02:48,480 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 1: lack of I think from my experience that there is

1368
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: a lack of empathy.

1369
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 2: I think some people.

1370
01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:00,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, from my experience, I lack empathy because it doesn't

1371
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 1: make logical sense.

1372
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 2: Correct.

1373
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:06,000
Speaker 1: But then I have to go, according to the world,

1374
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 1: it's a disease. And then you hear people that were

1375
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: addicts the way they describe it in music. I like

1376
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: the way people describe in music or testimonials like yourself,

1377
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: because you get an idea if they can explain it

1378
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:19,240
Speaker 1: well enough, like how you describe chocolate, right, Yeah, then

1379
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: you get an idea. But there is a little bit

1380
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 1: of a lack of empathy. I don't know, because logically,

1381
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: you're like, you're losing everything.

1382
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, why would you do that?

1383
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:27,919
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1384
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:28,800
Speaker 2: Why would you do that?

1385
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: And then it goes into you you love this thing

1386
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,080
Speaker 1: more than you love this thing. So that's where the

1387
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: logic and the lack of empathy.

1388
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:39,400
Speaker 2: Absolutely, if I told you, if I offered you a

1389
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 2: million dollars to not blink for the rest of this show,

1390
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 2: would you be able to do it?

1391
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: No, for the rest of the show. Yeah, which I

1392
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:46,840
Speaker 1: really hard.

1393
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 2: You try, right, you try really hard. So that I

1394
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 2: always do this in schools and I'll ask, I'll always

1395
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:54,120
Speaker 2: bring in somebody a couple hundred hours, I'll say in schools,

1396
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:55,960
Speaker 2: i'll say, if you guys don't blink for the whole presentation,

1397
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 2: I'll give you this money. And it's never happened. In

1398
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 2: ten years. I probably spoken to a million students in

1399
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 2: ten years, and obviously it's never happened. I've had some

1400
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:05,080
Speaker 2: kids like try to hold their eyes open. One kid

1401
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 2: taped his eyes open, but nobody's been able to keep

1402
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,919
Speaker 2: their eyes open. There's a reason for that is because

1403
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 2: the brain controls it. The brain controls blinking, it controls breathing, swallowing, heartbeat,

1404
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 2: all these things that just automatically happen that we don't

1405
01:04:17,080 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 2: think about. And to think about addiction as a chronic

1406
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 2: brain disease, that it if you were to look at

1407
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 2: somebody who's struggling with addiction versus your brain right now,

1408
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:31,920
Speaker 2: they're different physiologically. This is science, This is not Matt's opinion.

1409
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:37,400
Speaker 2: The brain changes from substance use, from chemical dependency. The

1410
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 2: brain changes and the ability to make good decisions is

1411
01:04:44,080 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 2: impacted by that. And so for me to say I'll

1412
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:48,280
Speaker 2: give you a million dollars if you don't blink is

1413
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:51,560
Speaker 2: the same as society to say why can't they just stop?

1414
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 2: It's not that simple. Their brain is telling them they

1415
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 2: have to have more. And so for us to say

1416
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 2: that addicts are like bad people and they just need

1417
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 2: to become good, it has nothing to do with that.

1418
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 2: They've maybe made some bad choices and they've used a substance,

1419
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 2: probably not great choices, but at some point it changes

1420
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 2: and it's no longer these are choices anymore. This is

1421
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,040
Speaker 2: a I have to do this to survive, and this

1422
01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 2: person is sick now. And to understand addiction in that

1423
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 2: way as the diagnosable condition of the disease concept of it.

1424
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 2: This is a sick person that needs treatment. They're not

1425
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:30,240
Speaker 2: a bad person that needs to become good. But people

1426
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:31,000
Speaker 2: don't understand that.

1427
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:33,880
Speaker 1: No, but I think the way you explained it is

1428
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: very helpful. I think it's very easy to understand a

1429
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 1: physical withdrawal from an outside perspective. I'm the devil's advocate,

1430
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 1: met I love it. At what point everyone's pleading with

1431
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:48,960
Speaker 1: you to go and get help. At what point do

1432
01:05:49,040 --> 01:05:51,120
Speaker 1: you and I guess you told me this, But at

1433
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:53,720
Speaker 1: what point do you say, I really want to help?

1434
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: Shun a debate, should I go for this question or

1435
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,600
Speaker 1: do I go for At what point does the therapist

1436
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 1: find the magic button? Which one goes first? The therapist

1437
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 1: finding the magic button, they go.

1438
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 2: Along at the same time. To be honest with you,

1439
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:12,600
Speaker 2: my therapist was able to help me identify that me

1440
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,960
Speaker 2: losing my father was that was my trauma. That was

1441
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 2: trauma for me. I viewed as a completely normal occurrence.

1442
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 2: People died. I viewed it as that way. Oh and

1443
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 2: by the way, I got to go back to this

1444
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:27,800
Speaker 2: place where I already feel uncomfortable. I gotta go fit.

1445
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 2: I can't go walk into an all guys college prep

1446
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:31,959
Speaker 2: high school as a freshman and be like, I'm really

1447
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 2: sad that my dad's dead. I have to go take

1448
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 2: an exam tomorrow. I have to go make the team.

1449
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 2: It's try it's tryouts right now. I have to go compete.

1450
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 2: I have to step in. I can't think about this.

1451
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 2: So I never dealt with it. I never even recognized

1452
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 2: that it was trauma. I put on the back burner

1453
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 2: and just never processed it. And for up until that

1454
01:06:53,000 --> 01:06:57,440
Speaker 2: twenty eighth time, it just remained unprocessed. It was unprocessed

1455
01:06:57,480 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 2: grief and trauma.

1456
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 1: Now, when you say unprocessed, does that mean that because

1457
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 1: you didn't find a way to cope through it? Is

1458
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 1: that what that means?

1459
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 2: Yes? And I found ways to cope. They were just

1460
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,400
Speaker 2: very unhealthy ways to cope. But what it was She

1461
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 2: asked me a question. She said, if drugs are answer,

1462
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 2: what's your question? I was like, that's very deep. I

1463
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,720
Speaker 2: don't really know how to respond to that, but you're right,

1464
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 2: drugs have been my answer. What is my question? I

1465
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 2: wasn't able to answer right that. What I got to,

1466
01:07:23,560 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 2: through like recurring sessions with her, my question was what

1467
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 2: is it about? Myself that I hate so much that

1468
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 2: I have to alter who I am to have a

1469
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 2: relationship with the world. I can't just wake up and

1470
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 2: be mad. I have to do something. I have to

1471
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:38,760
Speaker 2: change who I am to be a friend, to be

1472
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 2: a partner, to be the funny guy at the part

1473
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:47,520
Speaker 2: I have to I can't just be natural. And she

1474
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:51,480
Speaker 2: helped me realize that from my dad leaving. At that time,

1475
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 2: I viewed that as abandonment, Like my fourteen year old

1476
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 2: brain thought that my best friend abandoned me. And so

1477
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,080
Speaker 2: how do I control things to make sure I never

1478
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 2: get abandoned again? How do I settle in relationships for

1479
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,360
Speaker 2: rather than shooting for the excellence of my dad? How

1480
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 2: do I maybe settle for something that's less than because

1481
01:08:15,120 --> 01:08:17,400
Speaker 2: I can control it and make sure that it or she,

1482
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,960
Speaker 2: or a friend or anybody never leaves me. How can

1483
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:23,439
Speaker 2: I always bring something to the table that's not Matt

1484
01:08:24,240 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 2: that makes me so good that nobody will ever want

1485
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:28,360
Speaker 2: to get rid of me. It was like all these

1486
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 2: like deep, profound things that I had to really get to,

1487
01:08:31,280 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 2: and it was all abandonment that led to I need

1488
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 2: to control everything. I need to control every and substances

1489
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,679
Speaker 2: were my way to do that in relationships, in fun

1490
01:08:39,760 --> 01:08:42,640
Speaker 2: and social settings. Substances were my way to do that.

1491
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 1: That's a lot, that's a lot. I still don't understand

1492
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 1: how substance was your way of controlling other things though.

1493
01:08:51,080 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 2: So if I walk into a party without substances, they

1494
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 2: might not accept me.

1495
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: Got it.

1496
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 2: If I walk in with a bottle, we're having a

1497
01:08:57,760 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 2: good time.

1498
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: If you walk in as yourself, who.

1499
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:03,800
Speaker 2: Knows if they'll invite me back.

1500
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:07,000
Speaker 1: Wow.

1501
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:10,040
Speaker 2: So I mean that's just I was. I had to

1502
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 2: get to a point where I was okay walking into

1503
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:15,519
Speaker 2: that room as myself with nothing else and to be

1504
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,479
Speaker 2: able to work on what was it? It was fear,

1505
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 2: it was insecurities, it was just all these basically fear.

1506
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 2: Is what the Twelve Steps helped me realize, is that

1507
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 2: I was afraid of so many different things, hundreds of

1508
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 2: forms of fear. And so the opposite of that is

1509
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 2: building courage and self esteem and all that sort of stuff.

1510
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 2: And that's what that's what stepwork does. It's an ego

1511
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,719
Speaker 2: deflating process that helps you be okay with yourself.

1512
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 1: I went to one with a girl.

1513
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's awesome, and it was.

1514
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,000
Speaker 1: It felt like they I don't want to judge, but

1515
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 1: I was in the room and it felt like everyone

1516
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: was like there was a humility and a respect was

1517
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 1: a greater being, like a God or whatever. Yeah, but

1518
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:52,679
Speaker 1: it was interesting.

1519
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 2: Twelve step programs are they're spiritual in nature. You don't

1520
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 2: have to believe in God. You don't have to believe

1521
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 2: in a specific God. But the whole goal of the

1522
01:09:59,200 --> 01:10:01,639
Speaker 2: twelve steps is help you find something greater than yourself.

1523
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 2: Because my way got me into that program. If my

1524
01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:09,360
Speaker 2: way was good enough, I wouldn't need that program. Well,

1525
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:10,840
Speaker 2: I have to find something bigger than me.

1526
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: Yeah. Then that would also mean that you're not in control.

1527
01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,080
Speaker 1: So do you think that most addicts think that is

1528
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 1: their way of controlling the environment versus I don't.

1529
01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 2: Think everybody's different. Oh, I think everybody's different, A.

1530
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:30,800
Speaker 1: Learned less all right, what I know, we're definitely over

1531
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 1: the time. What advice do you give to families who

1532
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: deal with addicts?

1533
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 2: Love? Tough love. I think tough love is the most

1534
01:10:44,040 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 2: underutil lot because it's tough. I mean it's tough on

1535
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 2: the it's tough on the person receiving it and the

1536
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 2: people giving it. But tough love is my short answer.

1537
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 2: Generalized answer, tough love. Find ways to get to a

1538
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:04,720
Speaker 2: point where you can give tough love boundaries. Families have

1539
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,680
Speaker 2: so much control and leverage that they don't realize that

1540
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 2: they have that. If I say, if you do this again,

1541
01:11:11,080 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 2: if you come back home again drunk, if gamble the

1542
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,519
Speaker 2: money away again, if you do this again, these things

1543
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,760
Speaker 2: are going to happen. Do that and stick to those

1544
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 2: boundaries because the consequences that people can remember how I

1545
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 2: said in high school, I'd never had any consequences like

1546
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:30,160
Speaker 2: the DUI that this, that cops come to the party, Matt,

1547
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 2: you got to play this Friday, get out of here,

1548
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,759
Speaker 2: never any consequence. We have to have consequences to change.

1549
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:41,639
Speaker 2: We have to, and families can implement those consequences for people.

1550
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,679
Speaker 2: Rather than allowing people to just go out and dig

1551
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 2: deep down to a rock bottom that they find themselves,

1552
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 2: families can bring that rock bottom to the loved ones.

1553
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: I think I can understand, though, where families are in

1554
01:11:54,439 --> 01:11:57,959
Speaker 1: a battle with themselves, because if you're from a family's perspective,

1555
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 1: you'd be like, Okay, my boundary doesn't mean anything, because

1556
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 1: guess what, the only thing they care about is that

1557
01:12:02,439 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: drug or that substance or whatever they're hooked to. So

1558
01:12:06,240 --> 01:12:09,920
Speaker 1: why my boundary doesn't mean anything? It's easy to say that, right.

1559
01:12:10,360 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 1: I guess you'd have to be tough love for a

1560
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:13,120
Speaker 1: very strong time, a long time.

1561
01:12:13,320 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 2: It might be some families that have to do it

1562
01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:17,479
Speaker 2: for a long time. Some people can do it for

1563
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 2: the very first time. They hold that conversation and the

1564
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 2: person changes. So addictions is just weird. It's you can

1565
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 2: make a pizza and put it in an oven and

1566
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 2: it comes out how it's supposed to every single time,

1567
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 2: as long as you follow the instructions. There's no one

1568
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 2: size fits all. Why did this happen to this person?

1569
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,439
Speaker 2: And what is the right way to deal with this

1570
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:42,719
Speaker 2: individual like you? It's so complex. It's just so Complex's

1571
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 2: why the success rates are so low, the success rates

1572
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 2: of people. That's why I said, I'm not supposed to

1573
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 2: be here after that many times in treatment and as

1574
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 2: long as I was out there, I should not be here.

1575
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could imagine there's like a different array of

1576
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 1: emotions from people looking at your story. For people that

1577
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:03,080
Speaker 1: have lost people to say drugs and see you sit here, man,

1578
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:07,559
Speaker 1: why couldn't my person just couldn't get it? In that

1579
01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:10,200
Speaker 1: right amount of time. But I like that you're using

1580
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:14,240
Speaker 1: your shouldn't be here to like impact and change the world.

1581
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. I love what I love what

1582
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:16,639
Speaker 2: I do today.

1583
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:20,799
Speaker 1: Even though it seems like you're surrounded by trauma.

1584
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all day people are coming in to the

1585
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 2: treatment center. Then they're not, they're not.

1586
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:29,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, but even to hear that you say, you have

1587
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,679
Speaker 1: to deal with death on more than regular right, because

1588
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 1: if they leave and they reuse or what have you.

1589
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:39,479
Speaker 1: So it's like you're constantly it's like a firefighter. They're

1590
01:13:39,479 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 1: constantly around the trauma. But you've been on the dark side.

1591
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:44,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how you stay strong.

1592
01:13:45,400 --> 01:13:47,680
Speaker 2: Success is too, people like get their kids back and

1593
01:13:48,280 --> 01:13:50,599
Speaker 2: become productive members of society. And it's to know that

1594
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 2: we played a small part in that. That that's the

1595
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:57,040
Speaker 2: stuff that keeps us going. For every very sad story,

1596
01:13:57,080 --> 01:14:00,160
Speaker 2: there's five really happy stories too. So that's the And

1597
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:03,679
Speaker 2: then obviously like personal life and whether it's self care

1598
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,600
Speaker 2: or travel or fun or golfing or exercise or just

1599
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:10,120
Speaker 2: going home to my kids. Yeah, that's work is hard

1600
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:14,439
Speaker 2: for anybody. Any job first responders, Yeah, but.

1601
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:18,599
Speaker 1: Those particular jobs like the nurses the doctors, the what

1602
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: you do firefighters like. Sometimes people say that those can

1603
01:14:23,439 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 1: be like the tougher people to be like in a

1604
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 1: relationship with, because they're constantly exposed to trauma. You could

1605
01:14:29,479 --> 01:14:31,519
Speaker 1: be like, how is your day, honeywoo. Me and Sarah

1606
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 1: got into it and as oh, yeah, I went to

1607
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:35,679
Speaker 1: this guy's house he committed suicide, or this young kid.

1608
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,200
Speaker 1: That the trauma is like so much that they're almost

1609
01:14:39,280 --> 01:14:40,000
Speaker 1: like numb to it.

1610
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, you can interview my wife next. She'll

1611
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 2: tell you all crazy stuff.

1612
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 1: You guys look so good online. Just a day in

1613
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:49,200
Speaker 1: the life of you. Now.

1614
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:55,320
Speaker 2: Wake up at probably five, I'll go to I'll go

1615
01:14:55,360 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 2: to the gym, come home, get some desk work done

1616
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:03,200
Speaker 2: at the house before I go to the office. Probably

1617
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, one hundred or something emails, go usk,

1618
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 2: getting everything organized, go to the office. Have one hundred

1619
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 2: and sixty employees. I have one hundred and sixty employees.

1620
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 2: We've got like twenty two locations in northwest Ohio. Now

1621
01:15:15,080 --> 01:15:20,040
Speaker 2: two hundred and seventy beds right now, we'll have over

1622
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 2: three hundred here shortly, and I just I run the

1623
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:25,640
Speaker 2: amith of business every single day. That's What I love

1624
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 2: about it is you'll see a lot of CEOs or

1625
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 2: founders in the addiction treatment space that are just investors.

1626
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 2: I don't have partners. I don't have investors that we're

1627
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:37,920
Speaker 2: not managed by some private equity from a different area

1628
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 2: that doesn't know about what my city needs. I'm doing

1629
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:44,679
Speaker 2: it for the city. I'm in recovery ten years sober.

1630
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:47,679
Speaker 2: I own the company myself, I own the real estate myself.

1631
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 1: How did you get the funding to put it all together?

1632
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 1: You don't want me.

1633
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:55,080
Speaker 2: So slowly, but surely. I worked for another agency for

1634
01:15:55,080 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 2: a little bit too before I started my own, and

1635
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:02,240
Speaker 2: I was a minority partner in that company. The majority

1636
01:16:02,280 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 2: ownership did sold sell to private equity. And when that happened,

1637
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:09,479
Speaker 2: it just completely changed, and so I sold. It wasn't

1638
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 2: fun anymore. It wasn't the reason that I got into

1639
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:15,280
Speaker 2: it. It wasn't anything like bad. Just wasn't the quality that

1640
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:18,280
Speaker 2: I expect to provide for people. So I left. I

1641
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:20,840
Speaker 2: sold my equity for pennies on the dollar and took

1642
01:16:20,920 --> 01:16:23,840
Speaker 2: that and just reinvested it into my own company. Yeah.

1643
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 1: I love that.

1644
01:16:24,479 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. When I left, though, I'll tell you that it

1645
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:29,040
Speaker 2: was very scary so I didn't get paid it. It

1646
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:33,599
Speaker 2: was a long term payout, and I went from being

1647
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 2: paid very well to saying I don't like this and

1648
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 2: I need to leave too. I'm not gonna have a

1649
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 2: paycheck for about a year. Yeah, but I'm making this

1650
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 2: jump because I believe it's the right thing to do,

1651
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:44,320
Speaker 2: and it was. It ended up being the best decision

1652
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:44,920
Speaker 2: I've ever made.

1653
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 1: Now, your first space, when you first started, you started

1654
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 1: with one, right, or did you buy it take over

1655
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:51,680
Speaker 1: like another little company or No.

1656
01:16:52,240 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 2: Everything I've done I've built from scratch, So.

1657
01:16:53,960 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 1: It was one. So you get that first one your savings,

1658
01:16:57,160 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 1: You're like, oh my god, that self doubt a little bit.

1659
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,439
Speaker 1: Dealing with cash flow problems I love. I love saying

1660
01:17:02,439 --> 01:17:04,920
Speaker 1: cash flow problems because every business has to deal with

1661
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,439
Speaker 1: it at some point. So you're dealing with that hiring,

1662
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:10,160
Speaker 1: trying to hire the right people and the wrong going

1663
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 1: through that because I think that's like another whole nother

1664
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:13,160
Speaker 1: skill set.

1665
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.

1666
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, So you start to look at HR a

1667
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:17,799
Speaker 1: whole lot different.

1668
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:22,479
Speaker 2: HR is I believe one of the most unappreciated things

1669
01:17:22,520 --> 01:17:27,240
Speaker 2: in running business human resources, compliance and in ours revenue cycle.

1670
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:28,760
Speaker 2: If you don't know how to submit claims. You don't

1671
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:30,479
Speaker 2: know how to you can't keep the cash flow coming in.

1672
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I do. At some point I'll talk about

1673
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:36,200
Speaker 1: it offline. I want to connect you with this lady,

1674
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 1: Nina Linn out here in Orange County. She started a

1675
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,320
Speaker 1: program called wunder Seed. I think you guys would do

1676
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: dynamite together. She uses AI to do preventative treatment on

1677
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:48,799
Speaker 1: trauma for youth.

1678
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:51,920
Speaker 2: Awesome. Do you guys should connect?

1679
01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:56,080
Speaker 1: Connect? I think you guys would do good because you

1680
01:17:56,120 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 1: have such passion for it.

1681
01:17:57,600 --> 01:17:59,280
Speaker 2: Appreciate it, thank you, I love it. I am. I'm

1682
01:17:59,320 --> 01:18:01,200
Speaker 2: obsessed with it, absolutely obsessed.

1683
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:03,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, truly, I'm going to I want to connect y'all

1684
01:18:03,479 --> 01:18:06,160
Speaker 1: because I could imagine great things. And then when you

1685
01:18:06,240 --> 01:18:09,559
Speaker 1: do your touring for teaching the youth, is there what

1686
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:11,240
Speaker 1: do people have to do to get you to get

1687
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:11,960
Speaker 1: to their school?

1688
01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:12,760
Speaker 2: Just reach out?

1689
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:13,479
Speaker 1: That's it.

1690
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 2: Some of me a LinkedIn message and ask what we're

1691
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:15,840
Speaker 2: going to eat on the show.

1692
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 1: I was surprised it worked. And then do they have

1693
01:18:20,240 --> 01:18:22,240
Speaker 1: to have certain budgets and stuff or is that all

1694
01:18:22,280 --> 01:18:23,720
Speaker 1: back in you guys figure it all out.

1695
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 2: If it's local for the most part, local like very

1696
01:18:26,439 --> 01:18:28,479
Speaker 2: close to Ohio within an hour or so. I'll speak

1697
01:18:28,479 --> 01:18:31,040
Speaker 2: for free just because because I love doing it. Obviously,

1698
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:32,719
Speaker 2: if I have to travel and take time off work,

1699
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:34,800
Speaker 2: then I want to be compensated.

1700
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:36,240
Speaker 1: For that and or at least not going the whole.

1701
01:18:36,680 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. I can't lose. I can't just want to do

1702
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:40,680
Speaker 2: I love to do it.

1703
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:41,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1704
01:18:41,400 --> 01:18:43,200
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm very flexible.

1705
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:44,800
Speaker 1: In your program. Do you think it's way different from

1706
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 1: what Deer was?

1707
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:50,439
Speaker 2: I know Deer, Yeah, absolutely, absolutely so. I don't really

1708
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:52,719
Speaker 2: talk about drugs that much. When I go speak at schools,

1709
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:55,559
Speaker 2: it's out of a forty five minute presentation. I probably

1710
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:56,719
Speaker 2: talk about it for five minutes.

1711
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:57,840
Speaker 1: So then what do you talk about?

1712
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:03,840
Speaker 2: Choices and consequences, about real relevant things that young people

1713
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 2: need to understand. This choice leads to this, and then

1714
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 2: it's a snowball effect, and it's about who you surround

1715
01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:13,760
Speaker 2: yourself with, Like your mom used to say that. Yeah,

1716
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:15,240
Speaker 2: I literally say that, show me your friends and I'll

1717
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,040
Speaker 2: show you your future. I say that, I say that

1718
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:20,680
Speaker 2: in the presentations. But on the other end of that,

1719
01:19:21,240 --> 01:19:24,920
Speaker 2: good choices lead to good consequences. So social media, what

1720
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:27,559
Speaker 2: you're posting on social media today is going to stop

1721
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 2: you from getting into your college of choice or your

1722
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:32,719
Speaker 2: dream job or whatever it might be. You bully somebody

1723
01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:35,519
Speaker 2: in high school right now, like that person might be

1724
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:38,880
Speaker 2: interviewing your kid in thirty years. Your kid might not

1725
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:41,360
Speaker 2: get their dream now because you are a bully to them,

1726
01:19:41,360 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 2: and they connect the dots. It's thinking about things that

1727
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:47,960
Speaker 2: I never thought about, going places, get into vehicles that

1728
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,160
Speaker 2: have certain things in them, going to a certain party

1729
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:54,160
Speaker 2: that has certain things going on. It's more just broader

1730
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 2: conversations around some things that kids need to hear today.

1731
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 2: And it's not smoking. It's vaping. Everybody's all the kids

1732
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:01,639
Speaker 2: are vaping.

1733
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:05,679
Speaker 1: Yeah. I like that you do that approach versus the dare.

1734
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:08,120
Speaker 2: I was just, yeah, it's a little bit different. I

1735
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 2: like to do things different.

1736
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:13,320
Speaker 1: Matt. Thank you so much for taking time to let

1737
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 1: me just radically pick your brain and your whole life apart.

1738
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:18,200
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

1739
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:21,360
Speaker 1: You did introduce me to whole corn and it wasn't

1740
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:23,519
Speaker 1: that bad. It wasn't nearly as bad as I thought

1741
01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:25,640
Speaker 1: it was. And I'm so proud of you, and I'm

1742
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:28,320
Speaker 1: so thankful that you share your story every day. I

1743
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:30,760
Speaker 1: don't care if it's a hundred times a day. It's

1744
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:32,240
Speaker 1: always like a breath of fresh air.

1745
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:34,640
Speaker 2: I appreciate it so much. Thank you for messaging me.

1746
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:36,240
Speaker 2: I'm glad that got the chance to come out here

1747
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 2: spend time with you on a Sunday. I'm going to

1748
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 2: take this to go if you don't mind. It's really good.

1749
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:42,000
Speaker 1: It is right ripping.

1750
01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:42,800
Speaker 2: No, it's good.

1751
01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:44,679
Speaker 1: It is like floss or something.

1752
01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, I definitely need floss. I was like this,

1753
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 2: I hope there's nothing there.

1754
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:51,880
Speaker 1: No. Thank you guys for tuning in. You guys keep

1755
01:20:51,960 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 1: up with Matt Bell M A T, T, B E

1756
01:20:55,439 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 1: L L on all social media platforms. What books have you?

1757
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:00,000
Speaker 1: Can you talk about the books?

1758
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:02,519
Speaker 2: I wrote a memoir. Yeah, I wrote it myself. I

1759
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:05,599
Speaker 2: actually recorded it myself on audio audio as well, so

1760
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:07,800
Speaker 2: it's on Audible and it's on Amazon. But it's called

1761
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:10,800
Speaker 2: Addiction Alumni, and it is it's my story. It is

1762
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:13,640
Speaker 2: my story for everything that we just talked about, and

1763
01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:16,560
Speaker 2: way more like stories that I've never told to a

1764
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,720
Speaker 2: lot of people. So it's it is.

1765
01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:22,120
Speaker 1: It is like a deeper, very.

1766
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:24,439
Speaker 2: Very deep and very accurate and a lot of details

1767
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:27,280
Speaker 2: about what addiction looks like, but also what recovery looks.

1768
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:29,599
Speaker 1: Like to Okay, Yeah, I'll definitely check it out.

1769
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:32,840
Speaker 2: And everything goes to charity. By the way, all the proceeds.

1770
01:21:33,160 --> 01:21:36,679
Speaker 2: There's something about people selling stories like that, not saying

1771
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:38,760
Speaker 2: anything's wrong with it, but I just didn't want to

1772
01:21:38,840 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 2: profit off of that, off of my stories. All the

1773
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:42,599
Speaker 2: sale proceeds go to charity.

1774
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:46,519
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, and then that charity helps people in

1775
01:21:46,600 --> 01:21:47,840
Speaker 1: addiction or do you choose.

1776
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 2: We chose a nonprofit to determine where the funds go,

1777
01:21:51,120 --> 01:21:54,640
Speaker 2: so they're constantly doing needs assessments and they'll dole it

1778
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:55,640
Speaker 2: out as the funds come in.

1779
01:21:55,960 --> 01:22:00,520
Speaker 1: That's pretty awesome. Yeah, that's awesome. And then Matt Bell Properties,

1780
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 1: that's what is that? Does that somehow tie to Team Recovery?

1781
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:06,080
Speaker 2: Some of it does, but some of it doesn't. I

1782
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:06,960
Speaker 2: just love real estate.

1783
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:08,719
Speaker 1: Do you do flips and stuff?

1784
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:11,680
Speaker 2: I like to buy and hold? I don't like to buy.

1785
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:12,599
Speaker 2: I buy and hold.

1786
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:15,679
Speaker 1: So like residential, like apartment building type.

1787
01:22:15,439 --> 01:22:18,880
Speaker 2: Things, apartments, strip malls, commercials.

1788
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 1: Commercial real estate. You don't think that's risky.

1789
01:22:21,960 --> 01:22:24,040
Speaker 2: Some of it is, some of it is. You find

1790
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 2: the right building though with some good credit, strong national tenants.

1791
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 2: Since it's a little bit different.

1792
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, hopefully soon we'll have them at Bell Like financial

1793
01:22:32,360 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 1: literacy book, I feel like you're definitely gonna have some

1794
01:22:36,360 --> 01:22:37,360
Speaker 1: good tips in there too.

1795
01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I love it. It's wild and I get

1796
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 2: to do all sorts of cool stuff because of recovery.

1797
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:42,400
Speaker 1: So because of recovery.

1798
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:44,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm able to be in recovery because of

1799
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:46,400
Speaker 2: my addiction. So everything happens for a reason.

1800
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:49,200
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's an honor to say with you, thank

1801
01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 1: you guys for tuning in. Peace out,