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Speaker 1: Robert, thanks for sitting down. Glad to be here. Mark.

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Speaker 2: You know, I consider you a good friend. I love

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Speaker 2: hanging out and talking with you. Sometimes the best conversations

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Speaker 2: everyone were just flowing. And then I hate how it

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Speaker 2: turns into an interview.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, we're all different when the

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Speaker 3: cameras are on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. It's a human thing, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I hate to turn it into an interview.

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Speaker 2: It's fun just to kind of risk a little bit,

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Speaker 2: but I wanted to. You know, we've been next door

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Speaker 2: neighbors here at the Bigcoin conference.

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Speaker 1: You've been busy over here.

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Speaker 2: I've been busy over here, and unfortunately I missed a

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Speaker 2: lot of stuff that was going on. Last night. I

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Speaker 2: watched some of the videos trying to catch up a

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Speaker 2: little bit. You got to give a keynote presentation at

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Speaker 2: the event, which is a pretty big deal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. This is the biggest conference of the year.

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Speaker 2: I might I don't know, I would guess might be

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Speaker 2: the biggest keynote of your career. I think so in

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Speaker 2: terms of a number of people. Yeah, yeah, number of people.

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Speaker 2: I certainly want to go back and watch it. But

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Speaker 2: let's talk about that yeah, so give me the high level,

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand foot view of what that was.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'll give you kind of the back story

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Speaker 3: because I think it's relevant. You may have seen John

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Speaker 3: Ravake on my show. He's a colleague of Jordan Peterson's,

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Speaker 3: so he's uh.

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Speaker 2: Well that was a while ago, right, Yeah, we.

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Speaker 1: Did the John Raviki series.

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Speaker 3: He had a very popular lecture series on YouTube called

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Speaker 3: Awakening from the Meaning Crisis. It's like fifty five zero

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Speaker 3: one hour episodes about I mean, he starts in the

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Speaker 3: beginning of time basically and goes through all our philosophical

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Speaker 3: history and builds up to why we are in this

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Speaker 3: meaning crisis today.

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Speaker 1: He's just a really brilliant guy. A lot of people have.

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Speaker 2: Described Awakening from the Meaning Crisis.

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Speaker 3: Yes, a lot of people have described Jordan Peterson as

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Speaker 3: the gateway drug to John Ravake. So if you're into

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Speaker 3: Peterson's work, I mean, Verveake's work kind of goes to

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Speaker 3: another level. They're both very deep and fascinating in their

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Speaker 3: own right. But Veake's very interesting guy and so he

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Speaker 3: again I've had him on the show.

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Speaker 1: He's been like just.

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Speaker 3: A great guy to ban ideas off of reading recommendations.

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Speaker 3: Super smart, interesting guy. It's been a very good friend

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Speaker 3: in that way. When I have weird esoteric questions about

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Speaker 3: the things I'm working on, I'll shooting the text and

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Speaker 3: he sends me good resources. So we kind of had

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Speaker 3: that dialogue going. And at one point I was watching

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Speaker 3: his interview on the Lex Friedman podcast and he was

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Speaker 3: describing the nature.

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Speaker 1: Of the flow state. And the flow state.

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Speaker 3: Is said to be an optimal human experience, and it's

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Speaker 3: optimal in two ways. One, it's one of the most

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Speaker 3: enjoyable experiences human beings can have in a way that's

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Speaker 3: distinct from just pleasure, because people do weird stuff to

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Speaker 3: get into flow, like rock climbing, you know, Like rock

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Speaker 3: climbing is not pleasurable, it's painful actually, but it can

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Speaker 3: get you into this flow state that people will do

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Speaker 3: almost anything to get into flow. Like it's an optimal

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Speaker 3: human experience in that sense. It's also optimal in the

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Speaker 3: sense that people in flow tend to give peak performances.

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Speaker 3: So Olympic gold medalists, they'll report these like they're just

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Speaker 3: in the zone, right, is what athletes say a lot.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was going to ask you to define

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Speaker 2: what the peak state is or the flow state. So

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Speaker 2: that's kind of where everything starts going on autopilot and

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Speaker 2: everything just starts clicking, and like your subconscious almost takes.

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Speaker 3: Over, Yes, something like that, but it's very enjoyable and

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Speaker 3: you're typically performing at a very high level. So there's

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Speaker 3: a they do a chart where it's basically like your

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Speaker 3: skill set, the level of your skills on the vertical axis,

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Speaker 3: and then the challenge on the horizontal axis, and flow

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Speaker 3: is kind of the diagonal channel in between. Because if

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Speaker 3: you've got very high skills and low challenge, you're bored.

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Speaker 3: If you've got very high challenge and low skills, you're

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Speaker 3: anxious or you have anxiety. But right in the middle,

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Speaker 3: where your skills are matched to the demands of the

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Speaker 3: situation is the flow state.

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Speaker 2: You're working in your core competency.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like you're you're pushing your skills right to

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Speaker 3: the edge and so you.

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Speaker 1: Know you're.

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Speaker 2: Which is why rock climbing is one of those Yes,

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Speaker 2: I've been an action sports guy my whole life growing

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Speaker 2: up int Than California, and you know, meditation is this

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Speaker 2: thing where they say you should kind of try to

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Speaker 2: clear your mind, and I'm not good at that because

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Speaker 2: my brain works so fast. But when I'm dropping in

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Speaker 2: on a double overhead wave and there's razor sharp coral below,

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Speaker 2: you're meditating, or I'm going eighty miles an hour on

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Speaker 2: my rbrak across open desert, there's nothing that can come

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Speaker 2: across your mind.

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Speaker 1: Yes, exactly right.

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Speaker 3: And actually meditation is another form of flow, right, because

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Speaker 3: meditation is a skill, right, But you're matching your skill

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Speaker 3: to the challenge of not thinking. It's hard to do.

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Speaker 3: It's very hard to do. It takes practice. So anyways,

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Speaker 3: it's this often human experience. People love to get into it,

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Speaker 3: and it's also where we cultivate like skills, competence, virtue like,

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Speaker 3: it's where people become better. The more often we get

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Speaker 3: into flow, the better we become at whatever we're flowing,

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Speaker 3: whatever activity we're flowing within. So he was describing that,

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Speaker 3: and he in the book Flow by I cannot pronounce

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Speaker 3: this guy's last name. The author of Flow is me.

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Speaker 3: Hey chicks sent me Hie. I think how it's his

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Speaker 3: last name?

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Speaker 1: He just go out the book. Yeah, it's it's called Flow.

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Speaker 3: It's written back in the eighties or nineties, And Verveaki

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Speaker 3: was telling lex about the three informational conditions necessary for

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Speaker 3: flow induction. So to get into the flow state, there's

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Speaker 3: three informational things you need. One is that information must

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Speaker 3: be clear, it must be unambiguous, and it must be flowing.

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Speaker 3: So if you're looking in the case of the rock climber,

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Speaker 3: a rock climber can only be good to the extent

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Speaker 3: that his senses are working. Right, his eyes need to

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Speaker 3: be working, his ears need to be working, he needs

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Speaker 3: to be able to fill the rocks, all these things.

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Speaker 3: If all of a sudden he lost his sense of sight,

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Speaker 3: then information is not flowing. Well, he's not going to

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Speaker 3: be in a flow state, right, He's going to fall

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Speaker 3: off the damn rock face.

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Speaker 1: So you have to have information that's flowing.

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Speaker 3: You also have to have tightly coupled feedback loops so

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Speaker 3: such that every action you take the environment responds with immediacy.

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Speaker 3: So if he know misgrabs a rock and there was

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Speaker 3: no consequence to that, then he wouldn't know that he

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Speaker 3: was doing it wrong. But you know, when you're rock climbing,

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Speaker 3: there's an immediate consequence. You put your foot or hand

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Speaker 3: the wrong way, will you fall off.

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Speaker 2: Or you feel like slipping or the rock cracking.

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Speaker 3: Right, So the point is there can't be a lag

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Speaker 3: between action and environmental response. And then the third one

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Speaker 3: was failure has to matter, right, there have to be

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Speaker 3: consequences to failure. And so when I heard Vervaki describe

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Speaker 3: these three, it hit me like a ton of bricks

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Speaker 3: that he was simultaneously describing the informational conditions necessary for

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Speaker 3: free market capitalism, which is, we need information that flows right.

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Speaker 3: We need clear and unambiguous price signals. To the extent

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Speaker 3: you debase the currency, you distort price signals, entrepreneurs don't

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Speaker 3: know is that a shift and supply and demand or

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Speaker 3: is that quantitative easing that caused that price to fluctuate,

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Speaker 3: and that leads to you know, capital misallocation, et cetera,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. You have to have tight feedback loops, which

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Speaker 3: means you need load and bureaucracy. People need to be

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Speaker 3: able to act based on the knowledge that is particular

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Speaker 3: to their time and place. So if an entrepreneur is

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Speaker 3: dealing with, you know, boats coming in, he doesn't need

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Speaker 3: to say, oh, there's thirteen boats that came in. Let

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Speaker 3: me send a message to Washington, DC and see if

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Speaker 3: they approve this or not, and when it comes back,

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Speaker 3: we'll make the decision. By the time that information goes

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Speaker 3: and comes back, there's gonna be fifty votes there and

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Speaker 3: it's just a disaster.

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Speaker 1: Right, So you need tight.

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Speaker 3: Feedback loops as an entrepreneur lead decision making, not bureaucrat lead.

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Speaker 3: And then third, obviously in capitalism, failure matters, right, we

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Speaker 3: don't have bailouts, bail ins, tax subsidies, zombie companies. Like

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Speaker 3: in capitalism, if you're not profitable, you fail, and the

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Speaker 3: capital life should be as his life. Right, It's like

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Speaker 3: it's Darwinian, right. So that was the start. I was like,

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Speaker 3: oh wow, there's this individual flow state that's like an

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Speaker 3: optimal human experience for the individual human organism. But we

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Speaker 3: also or try to create that in markets, and they

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Speaker 3: operate best when they have the same informational conditions. And

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Speaker 3: then it started going down this rabbit hole where you're like, okay,

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Speaker 3: in a perfect free market, people are.

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Speaker 1: Doing ideally what they love.

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Speaker 3: Right, You've turned your passion into your paycheck kind of thing,

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Speaker 3: such that more people would be operating in flow day

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Speaker 3: in and day out. You could think of like the

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Speaker 3: division of labor, where we're each doing the thing that

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Speaker 3: we specialize in. It's kind of like the opportunity to

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Speaker 3: discover flow. It's like whatever thing that you like to

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Speaker 3: do for its own sake and that you're good at

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Speaker 3: and you get to push your skills within, Well, that's

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Speaker 3: that's how you get into flow professionally and so on

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Speaker 3: the aggregate that would be a free market. So none

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Speaker 3: of this was mentioned in the keynote, by the way,

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Speaker 3: but that was like the lead into how we started

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Speaker 3: thinking about this.

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Speaker 2: And we actually had this conversation in Wyoming, Yes, and

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Speaker 2: I was just starting. I started that exactly, so I

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Speaker 2: just to me asking up questions about that before we

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Speaker 2: dig in on that. So in this in the flow state.

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Speaker 2: So if we think about this, you're applying this through

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Speaker 2: the overall market economy hundreds of millions or billions of people.

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Speaker 2: But on a personal level, we would want to access

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Speaker 2: flow state because that's where we're optimizing our performance, like

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Speaker 2: as you said, based off of that vector.

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Speaker 1: And part of it.

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Speaker 2: Like, personally, I would want to get into that because

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Speaker 2: at that point, when I'm in that flow state, things

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Speaker 2: become almost effortless. So I read a book. I didn't

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Speaker 2: read flow, but I read a book called deep work,

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Speaker 2: which is very similar in a sense where we want

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Speaker 2: to have periods where we get into deep work, giving yourself,

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Speaker 2: you know, one hour minimum, but two to three four

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Speaker 2: hours sometimes. And then they talk about where like time

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Speaker 2: just gets away from this, everything just starts coming, you know,

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Speaker 2: whether you're writing or researching, whatever you're doing.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 2: As humans, if we're going to be doing big things,

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Speaker 2: big work, we should be trying to achieve these deep

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Speaker 2: work states or these flow states, because that's where this

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Speaker 2: big stuff gets done. And of course, modern technologies and

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Speaker 2: just you know, you know, we've been try a brain

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Speaker 2: for distractions and that constantly pulls us out of the

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Speaker 2: flow state. So I understand from that point why we'd

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Speaker 2: want to understand this and achieve it as a personal level.

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Speaker 2: But if if you take that to a larger level,

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Speaker 2: like a market economy, would the economy also work more

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Speaker 2: effortless instead of trying to force it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right.

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Speaker 3: So it's it's hard to say, like chicken or egg,

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Speaker 3: because you know, the less you force the market economy,

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Speaker 3: the more free the market is, the more free individuals

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Speaker 3: are to choose their own profession, right, And I mean

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Speaker 3: it's kind of intuitive in a way. Don't you want

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Speaker 3: a world in which people are creating the goods and

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Speaker 3: services that they are passionate about creative, right, rather than

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Speaker 3: being forced into a job because inflation's destroying their savings or.

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Speaker 2: Whatever and they yeah, and so instead of like, I

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Speaker 2: hate my job, but I have to do it, as

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Speaker 2: opposed to doing what they.

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Speaker 3: Want, which is another I mean, because you can't force

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Speaker 3: a flow state. I can't put a gun to your hood,

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Speaker 3: and getting flow states doesn't work right out of it,

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Speaker 3: like you have to be left to your own curiosity

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Speaker 3: to there's another progression here. So it starts with curiosity, right,

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Speaker 3: Like you're just curious about the world. Children are really

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Speaker 3: good at flow states, by the way, They're just naturally curious.

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Speaker 3: If you're left to be curious and you're uncoerced, you

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Speaker 3: might develop. You might find something you're interested in, and

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Speaker 3: that thing might become a passion for you. And a

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Speaker 3: passion pursued long enough can become a purpose.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: People decide that hey, this thing that I'm into, I

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Speaker 3: want to commit my life to it. And then if

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Speaker 3: purpose becomes to pursue purpose, well, you have to develop autonomy, right,

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Speaker 3: because typically the thing you're trying to do almost by

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Speaker 3: definition doesn't exist in the world because otherwise you would

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Speaker 3: just someone else will be doing it. So purpose leads

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Speaker 3: you to develop autonomy, and then in the development of

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Speaker 3: autonomy you can ultimately culminate in self mastery. And self

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Speaker 3: mastery is possession of those skills, self authorship, self sovereignty,

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Speaker 3: and virtue. Really, so there's this element of freedom or spontaneity,

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Speaker 3: or you cannot coerce it into existence, right for the

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Speaker 3: freedom's a necessary ingredient to the whole thing that's both

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Speaker 3: the free market and that's the individual flow state.

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Speaker 1: So that was the.

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Speaker 3: Lead in and then I guess where bitcoin comes into

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Speaker 3: the picture is that bitcoin makes coercion less profitable basically, right,

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Speaker 3: like inflation doesn't really work on a bitcoin standard. You

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Speaker 3: can't print the money. Taxation is more difficult because people

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Speaker 3: have this hyper portable form of capital. So if I'm

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Speaker 3: living in a jurisdiction that's mistreating me, it's much easier

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Speaker 3: for me to vote with my feet or vote with

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Speaker 3: my wallet. I can just take my bitcoin and exit

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Speaker 3: to a jurisdiction that treats me better. And so, and

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Speaker 3: this gets into a bit of the sovereign individual thesis,

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Speaker 3: where we think the long run outcome of that is

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Speaker 3: a world in which governments are incentivized to be accountable

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Speaker 3: to the preferences of citizens, right versus today not so.

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Speaker 2: Much, and not just not just accountable, but actually I

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Speaker 2: would argue the even more than that, because to your point, now,

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Speaker 2: it's easy for them just to steal, that's right. And

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Speaker 2: if they can't steal, then they're accountable, but they're not

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Speaker 2: really accountable. The only way they can get what they

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Speaker 2: want is actually to provide value, that's right, which is

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Speaker 2: actually the opposite.

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Speaker 3: So they become more of a free market enterprise in

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Speaker 3: that way.

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Speaker 2: They encourage and help it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well the market enterprise, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, whereas state's going to just steal from you because

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Speaker 3: you're immobile, right, Yeah, my capital is locked up in

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Speaker 3: the FIAD system. I'm stuck here. If I wanted to

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Speaker 3: get capital out, there's capital controls, and you know they'll

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Speaker 3: they'll de authorize your bank account, freeze your assets.

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Speaker 1: All these things.

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Speaker 3: Right, you have no autonomy actually over your assets, right,

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Speaker 3: that's a real problem. But with bitcoin, you have full

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Speaker 3: autonomy over your assets. So there's the idea that bitcoin

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Speaker 3: would lead us to a world where coercion is less profitable.

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Speaker 3: You could also say people have just have by virtue

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Speaker 3: of having more autonomy over your assets, you are more

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Speaker 3: capable of going through that progression, that flow progression from

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Speaker 3: curiosity to passion to purpose to autonomy to self mastery.

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Speaker 3: We've kind of had like in the West, you know,

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Speaker 3: we have a high degree of autonomy. We have relatively

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Speaker 3: strong private property rights, relatively stable rule of law, like

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Speaker 3: bank accounts work, you know, especially in Florida and Texas

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Speaker 3: and Tennessee. You know, these states are business friendly for

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Speaker 3: the most part. But we've been lacking the full autonomy

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Speaker 3: over money, right like as we've seen in the Canadian

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Speaker 3: truck protest and many other bank issues before.

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Speaker 1: You don't own your money.

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Speaker 3: That's in a bank, right, the bank owns the money.

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Speaker 3: Therefore you don't have autonomy over those funds.

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Speaker 2: There's that, and then the bigger one was the consequences.

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Speaker 2: So there's no feedback mechanisms and the feedback that there's

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Speaker 2: you said, feedback loops, and then consequences matter, and the

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Speaker 2: feedback the consequences matter is feedback yeah right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so it is information flowing. They're all connected.

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Speaker 2: But right there all so information flowing, feedback, loops, consequences,

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Speaker 2: and when I think about going to bitcoin, if you

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Speaker 2: think about just today with the existing monetary system that

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Speaker 2: we have, people want to compare bitcoin transaction to visa transactions,

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Speaker 2: for example, which is a horrible comparison because visa transactions

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Speaker 2: probably happen on like a fifth layer of settlements where

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Speaker 2: it's settlement. Bitcoin is final settlement. But even in regards

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Speaker 2: to that, So if you think about the time a

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Speaker 2: free flow of information between the arbit charge, between transaction

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Speaker 2: time and settlement time. So I can go online right now,

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Speaker 2: I can pull up Amazon, I can scan this, I

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Speaker 2: could buy it. The transaction happens instantly, But when does

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Speaker 2: the settlement happen?

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Speaker 1: Never months months later?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean I could charge my credit card back

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Speaker 2: up to what six months? Yes, and so maybe visa batches,

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Speaker 2: that sends me a report tomorrow, doesn't hit my money,

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Speaker 2: doesn't hit my bankcount first three days, maybe a week,

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Speaker 2: depend on what type of transaction it is, and then

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Speaker 2: there's six months where it's like not immutable, and so

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Speaker 2: that transact. So technology has gotten disiplined where the transaction

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Speaker 2: times have sped up in the old days, I would

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Speaker 2: have to travel to your general store and we would

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Speaker 2: transact and settle right away. And now technologies gotus to

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Speaker 2: where transaction times have sped up. Its settlement hasn't.

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Speaker 3: Deferred settlements very fast. But final settlement, I would argue,

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Speaker 3: actually occurs never in a fiat.

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Speaker 1: System because gold is not changing hands.

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Speaker 3: So you think about it, even when those banks you

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Speaker 3: do the Amazon transaction, your bank settles with Amazon's bank

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Speaker 3: probably T plus sixty sixty days later, those banks still

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Speaker 3: have liability to the FED, right right.

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Speaker 1: The FED can.

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Speaker 3: Always just print more money into base and all that.

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Speaker 3: So I would argue that you never have final settlement

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Speaker 3: and a FIAD system like it's an internal confidence game.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but with bitcong game.

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Speaker 3: You're conya. With bitcoin, you fully reunite. There's no deferred settlement, right,

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Speaker 3: I'm just sending you specie if you will physical bitcoin

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Speaker 3: over the internet, And so that cuts out a lot

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Speaker 3: of that in that gap where systemic risk and all

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Speaker 3: these things fester. Bitcoin just kind of closes that gap.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of reasons we could say why

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Speaker 2: that's good or bad. Mostly good, But in context of

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Speaker 2: our discussion here, if it needs to be free flowing

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Speaker 2: information with a feedback loop, then we need that gap

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Speaker 2: to be closed.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and failure again for the failure mattering is very important.

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Speaker 3: Central banks and governments, right, they create these programs that

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Speaker 3: are unprofitable, which means no one actually wants them. That's

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Speaker 3: what unprofitable means. No one's paying you for the fucking thing.

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Speaker 3: It wouldn't be there unless you could steal from taxpayers,

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Speaker 3: taxation and inflation to pay for the thing. So you

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Speaker 3: end up with all these You know what, did a

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Speaker 3: freedman say that there's nothing more permanent than a temporary

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Speaker 3: government solution.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: We had the I think safety and talks about the

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Speaker 3: I think it was Lebanon. The train Authority is still

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Speaker 3: a government organization thirty years after they've had any train

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Speaker 3: tracks in the country.

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Speaker 1: I might have the country wrong. You get.

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Speaker 3: All this misallocation of capital essentially, and it's all rooted

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Speaker 3: in the theft, right, the ability to steal from productive

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Speaker 3: market actors and fund whatever kakamane scheme you want, and

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Speaker 3: so that it destroys the flow of information. Price signals

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Speaker 3: get all screwed up, feedback loops go awry. Right, business

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Speaker 3: owners now instead of just going to market and solving

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Speaker 3: something for consumers. I got to go through all this

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Speaker 3: red tape. I gotta get a business license. I gotta wait,

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Speaker 3: I gotta pay the fee. I gotta do this. I

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Speaker 3: have to get permission.

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Speaker 2: By the time you get through that, the market might

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Speaker 2: have changed.

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Speaker 3: Right, so feedback loops are eft, and then failure doesn't

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Speaker 3: matter as much.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: The name of the game and fiat is to get

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Speaker 3: too big to fail or die trying, basically, because once

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Speaker 3: you're too big to fail, well, you live on that

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Speaker 3: taxpayer subsidy forever you can't. You're literally deemed too big

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Speaker 3: to fail, which is totally crazy if you look at

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Speaker 3: it through a lens of nature.

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Speaker 1: What does that mean?

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Speaker 3: Do we have any animals that are too big to fail?

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Speaker 3: Is like an animal gets so big, like, let's keep

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Speaker 3: that guy alive forever. Yeah, it's like no, nature naturally

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Speaker 3: dies and the resources go back into the soil.

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Speaker 2: And the resources back into the soil is the big piece.

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Speaker 2: And so what happens is, you know, in a free market,

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Speaker 2: capitalist system, then people should be able to move.

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Speaker 1: Up the ladder.

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Speaker 2: But if people aren't leaving the top positions and falling

402
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Speaker 2: backs around then there's no room at the top, and

403
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Speaker 2: so we need a system where people can go up

404
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Speaker 2: and down.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 3: And it's maybe a little worse than that too, because

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Speaker 3: people that get into these positions inside of the state

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Speaker 3: or near the FIAT spigot can now extract resources from

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Speaker 3: those lower down. And so what you tend to see

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Speaker 3: is like an evisceration of the middle class. So the

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Speaker 3: rich getting way richer and the poor getting way poorer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this might be a going into a tangent. But

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Speaker 2: in regards to that specifically, I was having a conversation

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Speaker 2: last night. We're talking about AI, right, and AI is

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Speaker 2: going to replace all these jobs. And one thing that

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Speaker 2: I did agree with a lot of people in regards

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Speaker 2: to this is they think that it's going to replace

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Speaker 2: so many jobs and all these people, all these jobs

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Speaker 2: we wiped out, and then we're gonna need UBI for this.

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Speaker 3: No, I agree, I agree, I agree with your disagreement, right.

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Speaker 2: And well, but here, but here's where the rub is

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Speaker 2: and and is that you know, as as animals, back

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Speaker 2: to kind of this animal example, the lion's king of

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Speaker 2: the jungle.

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Speaker 1: It's free, but it's not an easy life.

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Speaker 2: It has to fight it could be killed, it could

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Speaker 2: starve to death, but it's free. Now I could move

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Speaker 2: it into a cage and I could give it its

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Speaker 2: one mili day and antibiotics, and now that's safe. But

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Speaker 2: it's not free. The problem with an animal is if

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Speaker 2: that lion's born into captivity, I can't put it back

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Speaker 2: into what maybe ever, I don't I don't know, maybe,

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Speaker 2: but we're not animals, we're humans. And so my dad

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Speaker 2: told my mom and I didn't want eat my vegetables,

435
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Speaker 2: that if he's hungry enough, he's gonna eat. And so

436
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Speaker 2: if you're hungry enough, you're gonna dig a hole like

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Speaker 2: whatever it is, you're gonna do it if you're gonna adapt.

438
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 2: But so in regards to that, every time there's been

439
00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,920
Speaker 2: a new piece of technology, people said, hey, we're gonna

440
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,359
Speaker 2: wipe out all these jobs, and we do. But because

441
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 2: humans can adapt, they've adapted. So when the Destrial Revolution

442
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 2: took five thousand jobs, they did medicine and science. But

443
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 2: the problem is when we do UBI, we incentivize people

444
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,680
Speaker 2: not to adapt. That's right, and so in this case, yes, yes,

445
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,560
Speaker 2: AI will get rid of all those jobs, and instead

446
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,200
Speaker 2: of those people finding new jobs, will just let's incentivized

447
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: do nothing.

448
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 3: That's right, and you're penalizing those who are the most productive,

449
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 3: the taxpayers that are getting stolen from to fund UBI.

450
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 3: So you're disincentivizing productive action and incentivizing non productive action.

451
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and this is what destroys the world.

452
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 3: You're paying people to sit on their ass, like, what

453
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 3: do you think is going to happen?

454
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, So yeah, it's it's a really good point.

455
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,719
Speaker 3: And the other So to take it back to the keynote,

456
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 3: we tried to get because obviously this is rather abstract.

457
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about.

458
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 3: How information moves and how market economies work and how

459
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 3: flows like these are the flow states a little less

460
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 3: substract because most people have experience once or twice. But

461
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 3: when you map that onto a market economy, that can

462
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:09,240
Speaker 3: be pretty abstract. You're basically saying the individual is like

463
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:11,639
Speaker 3: a fractal of the market, and so that can be

464
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 3: a leap. We try to and that type of content

465
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 3: lends itself better to an essay format, So for the keynote,

466
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 3: we try to bring it down to embodied experience to

467
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,200
Speaker 3: make it visceral for people. So one of the things

468
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 3: and the punchline there with bitcoin is like bitcoin enables

469
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 3: more of a market economy, so it's more of a

470
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 3: flow state market economy, but it's also allowing people to

471
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 3: self select jobs that they get into flow more often

472
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:41,280
Speaker 3: with like.

473
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: I assume you like what you do.

474
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 3: Sure, you probably get into flow a lot in these

475
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: conversations and doing your like it's a job that's satisfying. Right,

476
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 3: that's great. Right, You've got to choose something that the

477
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,199
Speaker 3: world pays you for, that you're good at, and that

478
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 3: you enjoy. The ideal world is when we have as

479
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 3: many people as pop doing that, finding their thing. So

480
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 3: bitcoin becomes this instrument that enables more people to discover

481
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 3: flow by making coersion more expensive essentially. So to try

482
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 3: and embody these like the difference between Bitcoin and let's

483
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 3: say central banking or the Federal Reserve, we use an

484
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: analogy from Terminator too, and we're saying, imagine if there

485
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 3: was a cyborg programmed to defend your family and loved ones,

486
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 3: and now the first cyborg is programmed in the spirit

487
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,600
Speaker 3: of the Federal Reserve Act of nineteen thirteen. It's like

488
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 3: if you've seen Terminator to the liquid Metal guy or

489
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,879
Speaker 3: using images of him, it's like he lies to you

490
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 3: every day. He's coercive and manipulative without remorse. He'll borrow

491
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 3: borrow your resources without your permission. If he borrows and

492
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 3: too much and runs out of resources, he will conscript

493
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 3: your kids to go and die for his debts. So

494
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: we're analogizing this entity central banking. It said, Okay, that's

495
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 3: pretty grim. So let's imagine another cyborg that's programmed with

496
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 3: the values and virtues of bitcoin, and he'll never tell

497
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 3: a lie.

498
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: Can't tell a lie because bitcoin is truth.

499
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 3: It would have perfect integrity and that it will only

500
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 3: ever do what it says it will do. Just like bitcoin,

501
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 3: it would perfectly preserve energy or purchasing power into the

502
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:33,119
Speaker 3: future for your kids forever. No watt would be expended wastefully,

503
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 3: like all the energy in bitcoin goes towards preserving private property,

504
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 3: so it would be totally unwteful.

505
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: It would encourage, motivate and incentivize want your kids and

506
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 2: your family to grow and be the best they could

507
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 2: be exactly.

508
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: So, which gets back to that flow state, because we're

509
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: talking about kids. It's like, if we want to build

510
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 3: this world, this flow state, free market capitalist world, well

511
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 3: we better start with the kids obviously, right, like a

512
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 3: start with a kid.

513
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: You can't teach an old dog new trick, so to speak. Like, sure,

514
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: we can improve ourselves and.

515
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 3: We can all try to be better, but the real

516
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 3: future we're talking about is in the kids and in

517
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 3: their kids and so on.

518
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 2: And the kids are under attack today.

519
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: That's right.

520
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 3: And we went into state schooling. The author John Taylor

521
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 3: Gatto wrote two books, Weapons of Mass Instruction and Dumbing

522
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 3: Us Down. And I was talking about the Western educational

523
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: system and where it came from. And so these two cyborgs, basically,

524
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 3: you know, you get the bad liquid metal Federal Reserve cyborg,

525
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 3: and you get the Arnold Schwarzenegger, a bitcoin cyborg that

526
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 3: actually defends your family and also defends the rest of

527
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: the neighborhood, like he's open to taking care of everyone.

528
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 3: That was kind of like, I guess, a way of

529
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 3: anthropomorphizing bitcoin and saying like, we should try to be

530
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 3: like that for our kids, be you know, and using

531
00:25:54,760 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: bitcoin to defend their purchasing power, telling the truth, exhibiting integrity,

532
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,560
Speaker 3: and in doing so, you would nurture your children's curiosity.

533
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 3: The young and most precious minds among us, which are

534
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 3: our kids while they are the future if you nurture

535
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 3: their curiosity and give them the opportunity to discover passion,

536
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 3: and give them the opportunity to figure out purpose and

537
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 3: then develop autonomy and then ultimately pursue self mastery. These

538
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 3: are the things parents want for their kids, right. If

539
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: you don't want it's also the things central planners don't

540
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 3: want in their population. Like, I want you dumb and

541
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 3: addicted and conforming.

542
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: So you can be a cogno, will.

543
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 3: Trust the Yeah, So like that can't be a coincidence, right, Like,

544
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 3: these are things good parents want in their kids, and

545
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: the exact opposite of those things is what central planners

546
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: want their population. Right, And so it's about moving away

547
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 3: from It's really just getting the state out of our affairs,

548
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 3: and that gets us back towards this progression that we

549
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 3: can discover flow and hopefully just build a better world.

550
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 2: I listened to this interview with the Mike Pompeo, who

551
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 2: was previous Secretary of State, used to be with the CIA.

552
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 2: I think he was talking about potentially running for a

553
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 2: president and this was a couple of months ago, and

554
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: in the interview they asked him who do you think

555
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 2: the most dangerous person in the world. Is is it

556
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 2: putin right now? Would you say it's z Like, who's

557
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 2: the most dangerous person in the world at this at

558
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 2: this time? And he named a lady. I can't remember

559
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 2: her name off the top of my head. I was

560
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 2: trying to think about it. And she said she's the

561
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: most dangerous person in the world. Like, who's this. It's

562
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 2: the head of the Secretary of Education in the United States. Okay,

563
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: more dangerous than anyone else in the world. Well, why

564
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 2: would you say that, Because she's educating the kids and

565
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 2: she's not educating them properly. We'll just say that that's right.

566
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 2: And so to the point that you're making, right, I mean,

567
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 2: they're driving them down the wrong path and everywhere you

568
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 2: look unfortunately. I mean we can kind of talk about

569
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 2: the but politics works against our best incentives, right, And

570
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 2: is that a feature of them wanting to centrally plan

571
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: and manage or is that just a symptom of as

572
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 2: things grow that's how it turns.

573
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: So.

574
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 2: For example, in order to get food to more people,

575
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 2: food production has been centralized so it can become more efficient,

576
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: more cost effective. But to become more efficient, cost effective,

577
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,160
Speaker 2: then they've lowered the quality of the food, which works

578
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 2: against what I want. So some of this like that

579
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: or is it more to like I said toes centrally plan,

580
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,440
Speaker 2: they need everybody to be dependable, reliable and a cog

581
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: and a wheel, and they can't have you being a

582
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: free thinker.

583
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question, and I mean my admitted

584
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 3: tunnel vision, right. I think a lot of it's rooted

585
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 3: in the money. Like, once you start to centralize the money, well,

586
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 3: what does money do? It's like it's one of the

587
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 3: primary things that moves humans in the world, Like people

588
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 3: wake up, how do they in most of their days,

589
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 3: like the.

590
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: Average person chasing money, going to.

591
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 3: Work, trying to get money so they can eat and

592
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 3: have shelter and all these other things. If all of

593
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: a sudden, one organization can just print money out of

594
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 3: thin air, then that's like the power to control people,

595
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 3: like to control human action to a large extent. So

596
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 3: it doesn't surprise me at all that we see government

597
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 3: centralize in tandem with the centralization of money. So you know,

598
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 3: as far as like the sequence, and I'm not saying

599
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 3: this is like purely linear, obviously there's feedback between them.

600
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 3: But I think technology essentially dictates how we interact with

601
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 3: the world, Right, Like if we're hunters and gatherers, well

602
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 3: typing fast doesn't really matter, right, you know, you better

603
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 3: be able to throw a spear or whatever it is today,

604
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 3: where digital people were all stuck on our phones, homeless

605
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 3: people to billionaires, all spending their time on basically the

606
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: same device, yeah, every day. So it's like technology I

607
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 3: think actually drives economics in that it's determining what we

608
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 3: do every day, what jobs we're doing, right, that we're

609
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 3: operating within a specific technological paradigm, and those jobs typically

610
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 3: have to do with those technologies, right, Like we all

611
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: work on computers today, we all.

612
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: Work on the internet.

613
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: Well that wasn't the case fifty years ago, and so

614
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 3: on and so forth. So it's in terms of going downstream,

615
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 3: it's like technology then economics, and then economics influences culture

616
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: because culture is just how.

617
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: We interact, how we interact, how we organize ourselves.

618
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 3: Obviously there's different features of like food and religion and

619
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 3: ritual and all these things kind of mixed into it,

620
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,959
Speaker 3: but even those things have to do with technology and economics. Right,

621
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: It's like, well, what churches are we building? Are we

622
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 3: in a hut Are we in a cathedral?

623
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: Right?

624
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 3: It depends on what paradigm you're in, And so you

625
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 3: get cultures kind of emerging from economics to some extent.

626
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that culture is economic necessarily, It's just

627
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 3: that cultures influenced.

628
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: More by economics than the inverse.

629
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: And then downstream from culture as politics, right, which is

630
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 3: people fighting over the rules essentially.

631
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: And then that example I gave about, like food being

632
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: mass produced so they can bring cost down and become

633
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: more efficient, but then they're serving less quality food. If

634
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 2: the money supply wasn't broken and they weren't forced to

635
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: try to make it more economical because one people could

636
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 2: afford to pay a higher price, then it wouldn't be

637
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: working against it. So it kind of does.

638
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,720
Speaker 3: Go back to the money in that respect, that's right,

639
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 3: and the tax subsidies. Right, So they subsidize corn, sugar,

640
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 3: et cetera. They're stealing from productive market actors and then

641
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 3: subsidizing a specific crop which rewards the largest and most

642
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 3: centralized providers of that crop at the expense of.

643
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: Smaller, more boutique operations. So what do you get.

644
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: You get centralized money leading to centralized food, and when

645
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 3: you get to centralized food, which is also centralized wealth,

646
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 3: they're also going to via the lobby mechanism, vote themselves

647
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 3: favorable regulations, and then we get fucking seed oils and

648
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 3: industrial sludge and it.

649
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: Just, yeah, it destroys the world.

650
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, so kind of like we talked about the

651
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: other day, where like this system of government politics is

652
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: just not compatible with the world anymore because the world

653
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: has moved and it hasn't and so kind of going

654
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: back to that kind of ai UBI type of example,

655
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 2: that's only going to continue to exaggerate the problems and

656
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: not make them better. And so the only way that

657
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 2: we're going to get better, I guess one of two ways.

658
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 2: Either one the world culture technology goes back to the

659
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 2: way it was or which is never gonna happen, which

660
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,959
Speaker 2: is never gonna happen. Or the political system has to change,

661
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: that's right. The monetary the political and monetary system has to.

662
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: Change, that's right. Yeah, And I think.

663
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 3: Eric Winstein said this well earlier, that technology has always

664
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 3: chased people into higher value add activities, right, So it's

665
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: always scary when it's without UBI, without UBI exactly, so

666
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 3: all the it's creative destruction right where. Okay, your job,

667
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,479
Speaker 3: you're an Italian shoe merchant, and all of a sudden

668
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 3: the factory got installed down the street. Pretty scary, Like

669
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 3: I've been making shoes for three generations. Now they're printing

670
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 3: them out by the thousand. I'm probably out of business.

671
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: That sucks, right, So people resist that they used to

672
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 3: destroy factory. So these people protest against it. But that's

673
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 3: so dumb because that factory actually increases aggregate wealth and productivity.

674
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: But he has to go now find a new skill

675
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 2: that's right in the market.

676
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: He has to adapt.

677
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 3: And so this is people need to understand that, especially

678
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 3: in times of great upheople and change like we're living through,

679
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: it's humility and adaptation that are at a premium.

680
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: And think about I mean, if we want to go

681
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 2: way back to like early days like hunter gatherers, once

682
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 2: you've exhausted all the food supplies in the area, what

683
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 2: do you do?

684
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: You move?

685
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: You move to the next area, Like this is just

686
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: human nature. This has always worked.

687
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's and it's almost like the argument that oh,

688
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 3: if AI is successful, that means we have to have UBI.

689
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 3: It's not thinking properly because what you're saying is if

690
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 3: AI is successful, then by definition it's a profitable enterprise,

691
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,879
Speaker 3: which means it's increasing human productivity. So it's a net

692
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 3: benefit for everyone in needing to increase UBI by the

693
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 3: jobs that are displaced, right, the accountants, lawyers, whoever else

694
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 3: that get laid off by AI. No, you don't need

695
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 3: to steal from whoever's succeeding in the market and fund

696
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 3: those people. Those people need to go and develop new skills.

697
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 3: That's the process of the marketplace we're adapting, right, And

698
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 3: so Winsign said, it chases you up the value stack.

699
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 3: So if we don't need attorneys and accountants and all

700
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 3: this stuff in fifty years because of AI, great, go

701
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 3: do something that people want, right, figure out what the

702
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: market demands, which you can get paid for what you're

703
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 3: good at. Hopefully that you can enter into flow and

704
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 3: doing and do that.

705
00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I think that's a good place to break.

706
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 2: Will probably stop there, unfortunately, I just maybe we could

707
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: just finish on this piece. So like, what does this

708
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 2: mean for the future? And so I think ultimately the

709
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,880
Speaker 2: thesis is then that if something doesn't change, then we

710
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 2: continue to exaggerate this problem, and no government is going

711
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 2: to be willing to change this on their own, and

712
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 2: so bitcoin could force that change essentially.

713
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, technology, you know, solve an individual, right, Yeah, I

714
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 3: said the four mega political variables that shape human society, climate, microbiology, topography,

715
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 3: I think is the other one, and then the most

716
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 3: important one is technology, right, because technology affects all the

717
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: other ones. Right, Like, as technology changes, well we inoculate

718
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: ourselves against microbiology, and we fly so we don't have

719
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 3: to worry about topography and all these other things. So

720
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 3: technology seems to be the prime thing, you know, like

721
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 3: it changes how we interact with the world. It's upstream

722
00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 3: from economics, culture, politics. As I described earlier, we should

723
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: embrace that it makes life better. Now, it's not always

724
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,560
Speaker 3: purely good necessarily, we also develop things that are terrible,

725
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 3: like nuclear bombs and things like that, so it can

726
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 3: be a double edged sword. But in general, if a

727
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 3: technology is successful in the marketplace, that is a signal

728
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 3: that it's improving people's lives in an economic way.

729
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: So we should embrace that. Yeah. Cool,