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Speaker 1: Welcome to our classic episode. Fellow conspiracy realist. I think

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Speaker 1: we should start this one by thanking everyone who legitimately

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Speaker 1: volunteered their time and their energy to work with an NGEO. Legitimately.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, because some of them are great and the

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Speaker 2: stuff they do is awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I GEO non governmental organization. It's something everybody

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Speaker 1: can get behind you. Like imagine you're on your first

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Speaker 1: date and you're, you know, you're meeting and mysterious lady

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Speaker 1: and see what do you what do you do for work?

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Speaker 1: And then she says, well, I've dedicated my life to

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Speaker 1: saving children from old land mines.

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Speaker 2: Holy crap.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I sell loose cigarettes by the wah wah. You

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. We're a match made in heaven.

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Speaker 3: Is measurements?

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Speaker 1: Is that like some sort of it's a shade of

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Speaker 1: like convenience stores.

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Speaker 3: I thought you mean, like by the truck low by

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Speaker 3: the wah wah.

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Speaker 1: I like that too. I like it as a unit

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Speaker 1: of measurement.

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Speaker 3: Guys.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's a non governmental organization in South Carolina

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Speaker 2: that I just learned about called El Cheapo Gas and

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Speaker 2: they're everywhere and.

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Speaker 1: They're an in GEO. No no, but I guess technically

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Speaker 1: there are non governmental organization Yeah, yeah, So what is

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Speaker 1: not a government in geo really is? You know, in

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Speaker 1: many cases the term comes from international aid. It comes

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Speaker 1: from attempting to create solutions in step with, but distinct

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Speaker 1: from government efforts. So like, the US can support green

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Speaker 1: Peace in different capacities, but you can't work at green

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Speaker 1: Peace and then fulfill certain government positions, yes, or you

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Speaker 1: can't have worked in those positions and then join green Peace. Dude?

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Speaker 3: Can I just say? I just googled el Cheapo Gas

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Speaker 3: and their website links directly to the most GeoCities web

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Speaker 3: one point zero website of all time, and the url

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Speaker 3: is Summer's Oil and it says Adobe flash Player is

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Speaker 3: no longer supporting of.

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Speaker 2: It is wild man. So you're saying, don't use your

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Speaker 2: credit card there.

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Speaker 3: So it's entirely possible. He's in the same code that

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Speaker 3: four Chan was.

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Speaker 1: I guess I think you're also saying that everybody outside

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Speaker 1: of el Chiapo is a non geo cities organization under construction.

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Speaker 1: So our classic episode today is why don't nations trust

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Speaker 1: in geos?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And as we enter this world of usaid going away

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Speaker 2: and goos are going to be doing a lot more

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Speaker 2: of the work out there in other countries, right, So

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Speaker 2: let's keep that in mind as we listen to this episode.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 4: production of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is name.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul Mission Control Decant. Most importantly, you are

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Speaker 1: here and that makes this stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know. In today's episode, we're revisiting a topic we

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Speaker 1: picked up in twenty fourteen, both as a video and

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Speaker 1: as a short audio podcast. This is something that may

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Speaker 1: be controversial to some people, it may be personal to

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Speaker 1: some of us listening today, and we're going to do

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Speaker 1: our level best as always to stay objective. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about non governal organizations the street name NGOs. Most of

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Speaker 1: us are vaguely aware of these institutions, and oddly enough,

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Speaker 1: they're defined by what they are not rather than what

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Speaker 1: they actually are. They're just non governmental. The whole definition

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Speaker 1: is the thing that they are not in the name.

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Speaker 1: And that's tricky because this is an umbrella term. It

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Speaker 1: encompasses everything from you know, the Red Cross or the

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Speaker 1: Red Crescent to Greenpeace, from the World Wildlife Fund to

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Speaker 1: Oxfam and so many, many, many, many more. And typically

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Speaker 1: these organizations are going to focus on a distinct set

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Speaker 1: of concerns or problems, right human rights, equality or fighting dysentery.

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Speaker 1: It's usually the kind of stuff every human being can

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Speaker 1: get behind, you know, solving world hunger. It's philanthropy, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: saving the cute animals.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, doing the right thing.

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Speaker 3: I always confuse philanthropy with philandering. Those aren't the same thing,

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Speaker 3: are they?

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Speaker 1: In a way? They both mean lover of men, that's true,

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Speaker 1: a lover of humanity, It's true. I confuse them as well.

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Speaker 1: In goos are all about distribution. And it might surprise

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Speaker 1: many of us, especially people who have donated to one

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Speaker 1: cause or another. Might surprise us to learn that NGOs

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Speaker 1: are not as squeaky clean and as utopian as their

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Speaker 1: proponents would have us believe. In fact, many people, a

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Speaker 1: growing number of people will argue that these institutions and

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Speaker 1: organizations are at the very least disingenuous, maybe even evil.

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Speaker 1: We'll get to that, but first things first, what exactly

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Speaker 1: is this term we're throwing around? What is an NGO?

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Speaker 1: Here are the facts?

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Speaker 3: Are all pals at the Oxford English Dictionary have a

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Speaker 3: fabulous definition for what an NGO is. They define it

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Speaker 3: as a nonprofit organization that operates independently of any government,

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Speaker 3: typically one whose purpose is to address a social or

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Speaker 3: political issue. And in fact, the term non governmental organization

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Speaker 3: was created in Article seventy one of the Charter of

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Speaker 3: the United Nations in nineteen forty five. And that's when

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Speaker 3: select a club I guess you could call it of

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Speaker 3: international non state agencies were given observer status to some

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Speaker 3: of this body's meetings.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so that means that, let's just make up an example.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say the Red Cross is now allowed to

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Speaker 1: hang out in the room during meetings that might might

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Speaker 1: be applicable to its mission right to save lives. They

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Speaker 1: don't get to vote because they're not countries. They can

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Speaker 1: maybe make some speeches, right, but the big thing is

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Speaker 1: they do not have voting power. And there are other

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Speaker 1: entities that have observer status in the United Nations. This

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Speaker 1: is different because that Select group of organizations and institutions

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Speaker 1: that were allowed to be called non governmental organizations were

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Speaker 1: already very, very politically connected. They were already kind of

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Speaker 1: in the room. Now they just get the name drop

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Speaker 1: in the official designation. But again, like you said, Noel,

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Speaker 1: they are addressing social or political issues. The only common

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Speaker 1: factor that these this original group had back in forty

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Speaker 1: five was that they were not government agencies and they

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Speaker 1: weren't technically businesses. They weren't making money hand over fist,

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Speaker 1: or if they were, that was a secondary aim.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well there isn't the idea that their nonprofit or

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Speaker 2: not for profit, right and go's like, that's the whole

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Speaker 2: one of the major points.

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Speaker 1: Right, got right. Now they can distribute money, yes, very

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Speaker 1: into distribute today, they can distribute money or funding to

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Speaker 1: take donations and take donations of course from any number

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Speaker 1: of donors. But they're not supposed to keep it and

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Speaker 1: roll it over. They're supposed to invest it in their mission.

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Speaker 1: So originally the UN said, okay, you're going to be

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Speaker 1: advocating for human rights, you're gonna be advocating for the

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Speaker 1: environment or quote unquote development, another umbrella term that can

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Speaker 1: be very tricky. So an NGO really can be any

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Speaker 1: kind of organization so long as it's ostensibly independent from

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Speaker 1: government influence. And as you said, Matt, is not for profit.

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Speaker 1: There are a ton of them now and they're just

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Speaker 1: going to keep growing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if you check out Nonprofitaction dot org, and this

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Speaker 2: is a group that tracks the stats that pertain to NGOs,

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Speaker 2: they estimate that they're listen to this, roughly ten million

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Speaker 2: non governmental organizations worldwide that are functioning. And I mean

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Speaker 2: that's a lot, right if you think about that, and

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Speaker 2: has been mentioned. They're not out there trying to make

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Speaker 2: profit for things, but they are trying to function and quote,

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Speaker 2: you know, do good, do some kind of social good.

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Speaker 2: So they are trying to get in as much money

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Speaker 2: as they can through donations and as we'll see later

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Speaker 2: other means. Let's just go to a fact here. In

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Speaker 2: twenty eleven, people donated one point two billion dollars to

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Speaker 2: various non governmental organizations, and then just three years later,

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Speaker 2: by twenty fourteen, that number had risen to one point

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Speaker 2: four billion dollars.

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Speaker 3: So by twenty thirty, this number is expected to make

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Speaker 3: the meteoric rise up to two point five billion.

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Speaker 1: So more than twice what it was in twenty eleven.

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Speaker 1: They are also huge employers. We're talking about a gigantic

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Speaker 1: mass of people. Two quick examples. There are more than

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Speaker 1: six hundred thousand NGOs in Australia and their employees may

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Speaker 1: up eight percent of the Australian workforce. Wow, eight percent

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Speaker 1: doesn't sound huge until you think of, you know, the

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Speaker 1: fact that it's the entire nation and continent of Australia.

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Speaker 3: What do you think that's Australia a part.

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Speaker 1: Oddly enough, not that much. The NGO industry is huge

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Speaker 1: in the United States as well as Western countries. Part

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Speaker 1: of the reason it seems so big is because again

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Speaker 1: the term has so much leeway. It encompasses so much stuff.

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Speaker 1: You know, one INNGO can be doing something entirely different

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Speaker 1: and irrelevant to the aims or activities of another in GEO.

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Speaker 1: But get this, if all the NGOs in the world

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Speaker 1: were a country, they would have the fifth largest economy

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Speaker 1: in the world. That's according to John Hopkins. So they're here,

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Speaker 1: they're here to stay. They're growing. You know, as as

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Speaker 1: we pointed out, they are going to be at least

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Speaker 1: a two point five billion dollar business within the next

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Speaker 1: you know, ten years.

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Speaker 2: And a ton of people worldwide depend on them, both

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Speaker 2: for employment and perhaps for some aspect of their lives,

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Speaker 2: whether it's from water being treated and cleaned in some

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Speaker 2: remote part of the earth, or you know, shelter being

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Speaker 2: provided and created as in, you know, talking about development.

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Speaker 1: On the good side at least, yeah, on the good side, right,

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Speaker 1: we're throwing and already. Yeah, So I'm just.

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Speaker 2: Trying to remind everybody that, you know, we mentioned at

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Speaker 2: the top here are like a lot of people think

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Speaker 2: these things are evil in a general sense. We're just

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Speaker 2: making sure to point out that there is real good

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Speaker 2: that is occurring. Yes, it gets so complicated, we haven't

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Speaker 2: hit it yet, so maybe we'll save some of this

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Speaker 2: discussion for later.

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Speaker 1: Hashtag not all NGOs. Yes, And this becomes incredibly important

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Speaker 1: as we continue, because our big question is what do

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Speaker 1: NGOs do. Their activities include, but are not limited to,

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Speaker 1: the stuff we just named environmental work, advocacy, human rights,

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Speaker 1: social betterment. And sometimes this will happen on a large,

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Speaker 1: somewhat abstract scale, and sometimes it'll happen very locally, like

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Speaker 1: this NGO is just providing this specific type of water

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Speaker 1: pump to a specific region on a continent or we're

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Speaker 1: just passing out life straws. That's what we're doing. Life

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Speaker 1: straws are great, by the way, They're incredibly reasonable. If

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Speaker 1: you don't have one, and if you, like me, believe

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Speaker 1: in building go bags for your home or your car,

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Speaker 1: you need a life straw.

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Speaker 3: We should can't. We've talked about this. Why don't we

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Speaker 3: have something I want you to know, branded life straws.

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Speaker 1: I would love that.

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Speaker 3: And you talk about we came up so you can

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Speaker 3: like drink out of like a puddle with one of those. Yes,

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Speaker 3: that's pretty cool. Yeah, I would do it just for

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Speaker 3: the novelty of drinking out of a puddle.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The only I think the only problem is that

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Speaker 1: they can't filter some heavy metals. So according to the

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Speaker 1: latest reports, life straws are not has used in the

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Speaker 1: continental US as we would have wanted to believe, because

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Speaker 1: the pollution is rampant. A different episode, what no, oh man,

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Speaker 1: different episode. So that's a story for a different day.

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Speaker 1: But inngos are on the front lines, in the trenches

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Speaker 1: of combating these problems and making a world in twenty

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Speaker 1: eighty five or world in thirty twenty a place where

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Speaker 1: people would still like to live So the thing is

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Speaker 1: they're not all created equally and they have different broad categories.

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Speaker 1: The two big divisions are what we would call operational

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Speaker 1: NGOs and advocacy or campaigning in geos. They overlap, but

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Speaker 1: they are different entities.

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Speaker 3: So operational inngos actually have to mobilize resources in the

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Speaker 3: form of their financial donations, things like raw materials, volunteer labor,

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Speaker 3: so that they can actually keep these projects in pros going.

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Speaker 3: It's a really difficult and complex process with a lot

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Speaker 3: of moving parts, and these NGOs usually have some kind

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Speaker 3: of hq A built in bureaucracy and all kinds of

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Speaker 3: support and field staff. Then you've got advocacy or campaigning

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Speaker 3: NGOs that carry out kind of similar types of activities,

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Speaker 3: but there's kind of a different balancing act that goes

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Speaker 3: on between them. You still have to raise money, of course,

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Speaker 3: it's the name of the game for any NGO, but

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Speaker 3: on a much smaller scale, and it serves more of

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Speaker 3: a symbolic function and kind of strengthening the identification with

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Speaker 3: a particular cause that donors might have. I mean, it

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Speaker 3: sort of goes into the whole idea of the that's

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Speaker 3: not pure vanity, but there is something of a status

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Speaker 3: symbol involved in participating in some of these NGOs, and

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Speaker 3: this kind of bolsters that so when you persuade people

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Speaker 3: to donate time, it becomes more valuable. Successful campaigning NGOs

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Speaker 3: have the ability to kind of get large numbers of

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Speaker 3: people to mobilize for very specific issues and types of events.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the advocacy campaigning in goos are think of them

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Speaker 1: as the raising awareness in gos. Sure we'll have funding,

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Speaker 1: we want to keep the lights on. It's more important

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Speaker 1: to us that we get people to volunteer X amount

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Speaker 1: of days out of the year, et cetera. And these distinctions,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of on paper distinctions, get real muddy

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Speaker 1: when we go to the field operational NGOs. You know,

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Speaker 1: if the impact of their projects doesn't seem like it's

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Speaker 1: really moving the needle, then they'll go of course they'll

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Speaker 1: go into campaigning. What are they going to say, No,

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Speaker 1: we don't do that here. And these operational NGOs, especially

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Speaker 1: the big ones, always run regular campaigns, or at least

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Speaker 1: they support other affiliated organizations that are running campaigns. And

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Speaker 1: then sometimes on the other side in goos that are

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Speaker 1: campaigning in gos feel like they cannot ignore immediate real

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Speaker 1: problems in their policy domain. So like, if you are

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Speaker 1: an NGO that wants to raise awareness and support in

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Speaker 1: society for human rights or for women's rights, then you

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Speaker 1: may say, you know, the problem here is happening so blatantly,

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Speaker 1: it's so pervasive, and we have the tools to fix it,

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Speaker 1: So we can't hold off. We can't just have a

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Speaker 1: raise awareness dinner or gala. We need to put the

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Speaker 1: money directly into assisting the victims of these crimes so

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Speaker 1: they can trade back and forth. They're a bit mercurial,

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Speaker 1: a bit chameleon like. And there are other NGOs that

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Speaker 1: specialize outside of these primary functions, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a whole other kind of arm of NGOs

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Speaker 2: called the research institute. You've probably heard of these before.

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Speaker 2: They're really great. One of their primary things they do

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Speaker 2: is to increase knowledge and understanding. And these you know,

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Speaker 2: range across the whole spectrum, of course, from those you

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Speaker 2: know who are just looking to promote academics like the

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Speaker 2: non political issues out there that are going to help

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Speaker 2: our world become a better place to then you know,

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Speaker 2: sending out information across the world or across a population

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Speaker 2: for campaigning to get more money in right, to then

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Speaker 2: spread more awareness. So it's kind of just like a

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Speaker 2: nice little cycle thereof send us some money so we

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Speaker 2: can let other people know this cool thing that you

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Speaker 2: know now that you.

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Speaker 1: Know who we are, and think tanks operate in this

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Speaker 1: realm too, oh for sure. Right, seriously, your political affiliation

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Speaker 1: and no people hate to hear this, but in this conversation,

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Speaker 1: your political affiliation does not apply. It does not matter.

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Speaker 1: What we're about to tell you is very true. The

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Speaker 1: majority of the time that a politician has a smart

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Speaker 1: policy plan, it didn't come from them, because they're typically

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Speaker 1: not going to be professors. It came from think tanks,

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Speaker 1: it came from ng it came from places like alec

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Speaker 1: al e c.

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Speaker 3: And a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Times these groups are on the ground somewhere that have

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Speaker 2: the best visibility for a problem or a big issue,

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Speaker 2: right absolutely, which so it's we're not saying that's necessarily bad.

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Speaker 2: It's just perhaps a bit disingenuous when you get that

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Speaker 2: messaging from a politician.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, Wait a minute, politicians are disingenuous, say

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Speaker 3: it is, so we.

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Speaker 2: Kind of we all know this and we're all jaded

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Speaker 2: to some extent at this point, but it is I

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Speaker 2: think good just to know what you were saying, Ben,

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Speaker 2: that these NGOs a lot of times have a heavy

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Speaker 2: hand in policy making.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, but I think to your point, Matt, they're able

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Speaker 3: to be more specialized, right, so they can, you know,

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Speaker 3: really have the smarts specifically to deal with a particular

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Speaker 3: problem like climate change, or to really help develop a

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Speaker 3: policy where every aspect has been fully thought out and

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Speaker 3: vetted before. You know, these politicians may be shop around

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Speaker 3: for what they consider to be the best form of

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Speaker 3: that plan, and then they go with the one that

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Speaker 3: maybe has the best backing or the most bona fides right.

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Speaker 1: Right, or what their masters allow them to endorse, which

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Speaker 1: I know sounds super cynical, but you're right, it's not

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Speaker 1: a bad thing. It's actually very very good thing that

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Speaker 1: politicians lean on this expertise because to your point, Noel, Uh,

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Speaker 1: these organizations are more nimble and they will tend to

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Speaker 1: have a depth of understanding that can get lost in

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Speaker 1: a big bureaucratic machine. But okay, so I know we're

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Speaker 1: getting a little in the weeds here. There is one

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Speaker 1: great hilarious way to think of NGO's and to differentiate them,

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Speaker 1: and it goes like this, Bingo Ingo, gong Go Ingo

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Speaker 1: and of course Quongo love that band.

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Speaker 2: Wait was Ingo twice?

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Speaker 1: Uh Ingo e nng o and then Ingo maybe Ingo?

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, oh ngo ingore go Ingo Okay, out, I

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Speaker 2: gotta got it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, can go bango bongo?

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Speaker 2: All right, so let's let's do these.

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Speaker 3: You're ready to go blanco?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, here we go. Just so somebody just take

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Speaker 2: this from this moment on and you will have all

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Speaker 2: the examples in audio format. Let's just go through them

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Speaker 2: really quickly.

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Speaker 3: These are the real ones too, He's the real Yes.

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Speaker 2: Let's just go around. Robin Sure, is there a one

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Speaker 2: in particular you want to hit, Ben Sure?

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Speaker 1: BINGO stands for Business Friendly International NGO. Think of something

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Speaker 1: like the Red Cross.

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Speaker 2: NGO E nng O. That's an environmental NGO. Think of Greenpeace,

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Speaker 2: perhaps the World Wildlife Fund.

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Speaker 3: I'm touring between this being my favorite or the number five.

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Speaker 3: But we've got gong go government organized non governmental organization

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Speaker 3: such as International Union for Conservation of Nature.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, government organized non governmental organization.

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Speaker 1: I swear to you that's the real thing. That just means,

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Speaker 1: That means that that blasted right past it. That means

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Speaker 1: that a government said, Okay, we're gonna set aside money,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna give it to this place. We're going to start,

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Speaker 1: you know, to your example, the International Union for Conservation Nature.

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Speaker 1: But then you know, you all go ahead, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: take the money and run. And then we have INGO

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Speaker 1: I n g O, an international NGO.

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Speaker 2: Like OXFAM, and finally quango I love it, a quasi

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Speaker 2: autonomous NGO. An example here would be the International Organization

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Speaker 2: for Standardization. Highly important thing.

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Speaker 1: I propose that we that we start an NGO to

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Speaker 1: change the pronunciation of quango to quango. It just sounds

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Speaker 1: so much more fun. I feel like I know a

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Speaker 1: guy there must there's a guy who lives in our

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Speaker 1: neighborhoods somewhere whose street name is probably quango.

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Speaker 3: Then there could be the obvious ted nugent tie in

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Speaker 3: and call it quango tango.

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Speaker 1: There we go. Wow, I hope his last name is

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Speaker 1: Tango Quango tango. If you're listening, that's just cool.

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Speaker 2: We were just in Los Angeles and I always think

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Speaker 2: of that road.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's an outlier because like sunset Cosmo and

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Speaker 1: someone in the back is just like Kwa.

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Speaker 2: It's probably as great significance to somebody somewhere.

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Speaker 3: My favorite Los Angeles adjacent name for a town is

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Speaker 3: Rancho Cucamonga.

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Speaker 1: Yes, pretty fabulous. It feels fancy just hearing it.

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Speaker 2: It does.

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Speaker 1: So all of these things, the the bingo, ingo gongo

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Speaker 1: and ingo quango wongo, they all, they all get their

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Speaker 1: money from a couple of easily identifiable places or types

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Speaker 1: of places. Membership dues. You're you're a member of World

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Speaker 1: Wildlife Fund or whatever. So every month or every year

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Speaker 1: you you give them money because you want wild animals

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Speaker 1: to still be a thing when your kids.

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Speaker 2: Grow up and you get a really fancy, lovely calendar.

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Speaker 1: Or private donations. Uh, there's a there's a very clever

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Speaker 1: thing that we'll go back to this. The other two

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Speaker 1: are the sale of goods and services right by this

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Speaker 1: mug by this t shirt, a portion of the proceeds

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Speaker 1: blah blah blah. And the other one is grants you

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Speaker 1: apply to a government or another organization, they give you

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Speaker 1: money to accomplish a name. Going back to number two,

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Speaker 1: private donations. The very very clever thing about private donations

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Speaker 1: may may make me sound like a jerk to say

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Speaker 1: it is that it is not altruism for a philanthropist

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Speaker 1: to donate. Sure, maybe they want to help that cause,

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Speaker 1: but they're also saving so much money in write offs

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Speaker 1: when they donate as much when they donate a portion

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Speaker 1: of their own proceeds.

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Speaker 3: Wait a minute, so is NPR and one of these.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's definitely a nonprofit. But I wonder that's a

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Speaker 1: good question then, because it receives so much government money.

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Speaker 3: It does, but it also does what you're talking about

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Speaker 3: with the pledge drives and the private donations and also

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Speaker 3: lots of grants. You always hear, you know, this funded

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Speaker 3: by a grant from the Johnny and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation,

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Speaker 3: any Cacy Foundation, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, exactly,

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Speaker 3: all the big ones. So even if it's not, it

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Speaker 3: certainly functions in a similar way to some of these

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Speaker 3: NGOs that we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and as big MPR fans, both on the federal

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Speaker 1: and regional level, we just want to say we know

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Speaker 1: that you probably don't like doing the pledge drives either,

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Speaker 1: so sol draw onward, folks. We're doing a great job. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but Ben, yes, are.

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Speaker 3: These groups they sound eerily similar to those special interests

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Speaker 3: people are always accusing politicians of pandering too.

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Speaker 1: That's right, It's absolutely right, because they are special interests.

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Speaker 1: Their special interests just happen to be ostensibly again on

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Speaker 1: the surface, beneficial. You are absolutely not wrong. They are

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Speaker 1: very much special interest groups. I do want to I

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Speaker 1: do want to bust a scam real quick. While we're

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Speaker 1: on the concept of private donations, this happens all the time.

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Speaker 1: If you go to your local grocery store, especially around

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Speaker 1: the holidays, you know you're ringing, You're buying magazines, dog

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Speaker 1: food and egg whites and I don't know whatever else,

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Speaker 1: shoe cleaner.

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Speaker 2: I'm getting a real picture of your life, Ben, I'm taking.

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Speaker 1: To duct tape something to burn your fingerprints off. Whatever.

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Speaker 1: And then at the end of the transaction, they say,

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Speaker 1: would you like to donate to this holiday fund? Would

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Speaker 1: you like to donate a dollar, five dollars, ten dollars right,

438
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,679
Speaker 1: and they ask you right at the register. It's very

439
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 1: easy to say yes. Here's what's happening with that. Those

440
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,399
Speaker 1: companies are taking that money that they're they're getting from

441
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: individual grocery store customers, they're pulling it into a single

442
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: fund and they're using it to make a large charitable

443
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 1: donation that offsets their tax burden. So what you're actually doing,

444
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: what you're actually doing now, you are helping people on

445
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,439
Speaker 1: the way, but what you're actually doing is paying that

446
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: grocery store taxes for them.

447
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 2: Man Kroger, Why would you do me wrong like that?

448
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: I just that's I'm pretty sure that's what's going on.

449
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: I would love to be wrong.

450
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 2: I think that's called a loophole, ben and that's what

451
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: they're they found it.

452
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: But don't you feel like a jerk sometimes, like do

453
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: you want to donate and you say no? You know,

454
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: what do you say, like, I don't want children to

455
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: have toys? I think dogs should just die?

456
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I agree. I think my problem, just

457
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 2: personally speaking personally here is that I am so embarrassed

458
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 2: by the thought of denying a one dollar donation. At

459
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: any point, when someone points at me and says, would

460
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: you like to donate? You're already paying just click this thing.

461
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: I have to say yes. So if you ever want

462
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 2: to squeeze money out of me, just make it look

463
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: like seem like a charitable donation and hit me while

464
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: I'm doing a transaction.

465
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: Do you typically give handouts to handhandlers I did for

466
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 3: a long time. Then what happened? Mat who hurts you?

467
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 2: I just ooh, I could tell you an actual story.

468
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 2: I know. Yes, we're going to take a break. Geez, Paul,

469
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 2: he's just staring at me.

470
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 3: He is.

471
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 2: We're gonna go do a break soon, I promise. I

472
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 2: gave a gentleman in a wheelchair more money than I

473
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 2: generally would and.

474
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: Then he got up and walked away, didn't.

475
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 2: He No, he he took it, like just snatched it

476
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: from me and then just wheeled off really quickly. But

477
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 2: was very much just like I got away with it

478
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: kind of thing. I don't know the way the way

479
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 2: I felt afterwards. And then I also went to I

480
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: went to school at Georgia State in downtown, and I

481
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 2: think it just the interaction, that type of interaction occurs

482
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 2: so frequently, get numb to it. Well, it's tough because

483
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,520
Speaker 2: if you want to truly help someone in that type

484
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: of situation, just handing them cash that is transferable in

485
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 2: that moment probably isn't the best way to do it.

486
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 2: Many times that's gonna be enabling perhaps behavior that is

487
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 2: already occurring. But again, I don't have all the answers,

488
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: you know, one thing you can do is donate to

489
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 2: an organization like ones that we're talking about today, right, Yeah,

490
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: But then you don't really know exactly where your money's going,

491
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 2: and probably only a small portion of it is going

492
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 2: to truly helping those people anyway. Blah blah blah blah.

493
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 1: That's perfect. That's perfect. That's the point, because what if

494
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: there's more to the story behind these NGOs. Why do

495
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: some governments want to ban non governmental organizations? And what

496
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 1: if the goals of these organizations on paper are not

497
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: their actual goals on the ground. Will attempt to answer

498
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: some of these questions after a word from our sponsor.

499
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy.

500
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 3: So you know, like, like many of the things we

501
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 3: talk about on this show, things are not always as

502
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 3: they seem. There's a problem here. It turns out that,

503
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: at least in a few cases, folks are quite right

504
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 3: to distrust inngos in the way that Matt had the

505
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 3: inkling of a minute ago before the break back. In

506
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven, Mike Wallace, the seasoned television journalist, helped CBS.

507
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 3: Mike Wallace led an investigation into reports of CIA front companies,

508
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 3: only to find that the CIA regularly used front companies

509
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 3: as a way to circumvent laws domestic and international alike.

510
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 3: For example, the sixty seven investigation found that the CIA

511
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 3: was functioning under the title the Bureau of Public Roads.

512
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, the BPR.

513
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

514
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 3: So it's all kind of a smoke screen. So let's

515
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 3: dig into this starting with intelligence agency assets.

516
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: So really quickly before we completely I just want to

517
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 2: give everyone the tools to look at this if they

518
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: want to on their own. It was called CBS News

519
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: Special Report with Mike Wallace and the title was in

520
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 2: the Pay of the CIA and American Dilemma.

521
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can watch the entire thing on YouTube. We

522
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 1: think it's very much worth your time. Also, keep in

523
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: mind that all the disturbing stuff you hear about in

524
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: that investigation happened back in nineteen sixty seven. This is

525
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: from the fifties to the sixties, and.

526
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: CBS News one of the largest providers of information, a

527
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: media company. They were the ones helming this investigation and

528
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 2: giving this information to the American public.

529
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: Here's what they found. So the CIA created front companies.

530
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: It's not explosive news to anyone, but they use these

531
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: front companies to donate to legitimate charitable organizations, some of

532
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: which existed beforehand, right, and some of which were also

533
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 1: probably custom made. Wallace characterized these charitable funds, these institutions

534
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: and foundations as part of the country's financial power structure.

535
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: And he's very blunt about it. Yes, it says, these

536
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: are large aggregations of private money. They are influencing policy

537
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: and influencing culture with very few checks on their activities,

538
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: very like when I say check, I mean checks and

539
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: balances style, very little oversight.

540
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: Well, and it's weird too, because as they're tracing these things. Right,

541
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: Let's just give an example of something like the it

542
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: was called the Granary Fund, right, and it's this organization

543
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 2: that takes money in directly from the CIA, right. And

544
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 2: it's literally just money goes from the CIA to this

545
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: thing called the Granary Fund. And CBS News tried to

546
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: track down where this place was, and they found that

547
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: it had an address in Boston, Massachusetts, at this one

548
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: place in this one you know, room or suite within

549
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: that building. They got up to that suite and it

550
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: was actually a law firm of hemenway in Barns, and

551
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: the person that actually signs all the checks and all

552
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 2: of the financial and tax documents for this granary fund

553
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 2: was one of the major guys there at this law firm,

554
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: who also happens to be a part of the CIA,

555
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 2: if you'll look him up and who's who. And then

556
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 2: you realize that that granary fund is donating to all

557
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,720
Speaker 2: these other funds, you know, like charitable organizations and true

558
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: real life funds. And then you realize, wait, that money

559
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: that those real funds have is all mixed in with

560
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 2: this CIA money. And we're talking about thousands and thousands

561
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 2: of dollars.

562
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 1: This isn't chump change, and this is a great money

563
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 1: laundering exercise, you know what I mean. Car washes are

564
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: for schmucks and amateurs.

565
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: Now, so isn't that extortion not extortion fraud? I mean,

566
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 3: if people are taking your money and then it's just

567
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 3: going into this imaginary smoke screen pot.

568
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: Well, what do you mean taking your money?

569
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: You're talking about taxes, you're talking about donations, donations.

570
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 2: Well, in this case, it's the CIA funneling money, taxpayer

571
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: money into a fake account or a false company. Then

572
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 2: that company is donating to a real fund and then

573
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 2: those funds get distributed fun So it's.

574
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 3: Not individual donations that are just going off into space, like.

575
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: But it is it's taxpayer donations essentially, right, But that's

576
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: just theft.

577
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: Then it's not donations at all, right, I think I

578
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: think the question. I think the question here is are

579
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: inngo's bilking individual donors, right, Like, yes, Like Paul signs up,

580
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 1: Paul signs up for the International Institution for the Proliferation

581
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: of Applebee's and they want to build Applebee's in developing

582
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: countries across the world. And then he finds out that

583
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: his you know, two hundred dollar a year donation is

584
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 1: actually going to build Chili's or something like that. You know,

585
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: like if it's not doing I think legally, when you

586
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: donate that money, they can do whatever they want with it.

587
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: And I think now I would like to say there's

588
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: some more oversight for charities because you can see all

589
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 1: these sites rating charities on their trustworthiness and so on,

590
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,920
Speaker 1: and there are a lot of other like predatory things

591
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: that purport to be charities but aren't really. They just

592
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: sound alike, you know, and they're there to you know,

593
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: bilk people out of money. Here's the thing. By donating

594
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: through these front companies, the CIA specifically other organizations did

595
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 1: this to the KGB. In their time, they were huge

596
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: fans of doing this. But by donating through front companies,

597
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 1: the CIA is muddying the financial waters, making it increasingly

598
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,840
Speaker 1: difficult to track where this cash goes. And again it

599
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: is taxpayer money and more importantly, what it is spent on.

600
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: I mean, it makes sense. Think of it this way.

601
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: Let's say the four of us had, you know, no

602
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 1: plans for the weekend, and so we decided to destabilize

603
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: a region of the world or promote regime change in

604
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: a country, but do a geopolitical worries, concerns, norms, laws,

605
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: all that jazz. We cannot risk and open war. We

606
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: can't just send people in to depose the leader. We

607
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,879
Speaker 1: can't have a hot war on our hands. Heck, we're

608
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: at the point where, you know, we can't even get

609
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: intelligence agency employees over the border as long as they

610
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 1: are acknowledged to be intelligence agency employees, because what we

611
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 1: can do instead is get members of an NGO over

612
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: the border. Right. So, now, our operative Matt, Frederick, Matt,

613
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: what's your spy name?

614
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 2: Cranberry sauce.

615
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 1: Okay, so Matt Cranberry Sauce, Frederick Operative Cranberry Sauce can't

616
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: get in. But uh, you know, Cranberry Matthews, the member

617
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: of the Red Cross or the Society for the Betterment

618
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 1: of the Pangolin, can absolutely get into the country.

619
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,760
Speaker 2: I think it's actually Barry Cranston.

620
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 1: Barry Cranston. There we go, and this guy Cranston can,

621
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: if he's careful, gather like minded students from local universities,

622
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: disaffected utes to utes, uh in areas with high unemployment,

623
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: arm them with weapons smuggled in by someone else, teach

624
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: them guerrilla tactics, and boom, you've got a quote unquote

625
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 1: student union, slash rebel force, slash terrorist group. And so

626
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: back in Washington, as politicians can say, we morally support

627
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: the goals of this student union, spread in freedom, spread

628
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: in democracy, morally support, only we do not have an

629
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: attachment to them. And that's when it goes to the politically,

630
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 1: that's when it goes to plausible deniability. The president may

631
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: really think that somehow, in a country where guns are

632
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 1: generally banned, a bunch of college kids got together, got

633
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: armed with military grade weaponry.

634
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 2: They had what started as a stand in or a

635
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 2: sit down, turned into a full scale of rebellion.

636
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: Right right, right, and suddenly just they pulled out of

637
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,760
Speaker 1: the top hat of their asses, the most ass hats,

638
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: their ass hats, thank you. They pulled out the most

639
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 1: effective protests and counterinsurgency techniques that the human civilization has discovered.

640
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: They just made it up, right, I mean, sell me

641
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: a bridge.

642
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 2: That that's what I mean.

643
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: That sounds so hypothetical, Ben all right, yeah, yeah, you

644
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: know the Ted talking here, But this is a hypothetical scenario.

645
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: This happened in the past, this might be happening right

646
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: now as we record this episode, and Dollars to Donuts,

647
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 1: it's going to happen again in the future, which then

648
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 1: you think.

649
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,720
Speaker 2: In that CBS special, they did specifically track the Granary

650
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: Fund donations that went through this little spider spider web

651
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 2: of money flow. They tracked it to specifically student union

652
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 2: foundations that were operating internationally. So it's just it's already

653
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 2: ringing true.

654
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and I don't want to vilify everybody,

655
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 1: you know, like students, students are doing things, and grassroots

656
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: groups are an important part of challenging authoritarian regimes, but

657
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: sometimes they're not as grassroots as they appear to be.

658
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 1: And it's a pickle for sure. We actually have. We

659
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 1: have many, many cases of NGOs and media outlets that

660
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 1: are completely more or less independent. They're doing what they

661
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: say on the label right. Unfortunately, we have many examples

662
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,840
Speaker 1: of mediats and in geos that are controlled, infiltrated, or

663
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: manipulated by intelligence services. Again, this doesn't necessarily mean they're bad, and.

664
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 2: It also doesn't mean we're going to talk about it

665
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 2: right now because we're going to take a quick word

666
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 2: from our sponsor and special thanks to that NGO that

667
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: was sponsoring us.

668
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: Maybe not, it's all Illumination Global Unlimited.

669
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 3: You're doing God's work.

670
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: Now, that is a fine example of a non governmental organization.

671
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: That's true.

672
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 3: That that's just an n O, non organization.

673
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: Non organization would go, I'm a proud member of a

674
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: non organization. It's true. Though maybe we're over emphasizing this

675
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 1: a little, but it's it's all to the good. Of course,

676
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,640
Speaker 1: the vast majority of people working at these organizations are

677
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:00,320
Speaker 1: not inherently bad. They're not members of specter are something.

678
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: In fact, it's plausible. I mean, it's almost certain that

679
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:11,120
Speaker 1: many many people within these organizations, from volunteers to career staffers,

680
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: have no idea there's any ulterior motive at play, you

681
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like you could work at

682
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 1: the States Apartment and have no idea that the it

683
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: guy down the hall is actually a CIA asset because

684
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: he just fixes your email, you know what I mean?

685
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, is he?

686
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: And that course doesn't mean all NGOs are currently fronts

687
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 1: or even compromised, but it makes you think.

688
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 3: It does make you think the collaboration between NGOs and

689
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 3: intelligence services is kind of you know, like Bill Cosby

690
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 3: and Hollywood in the nineties. It's an open secret. In

691
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 3: twenty ten, Joe mcspeeden is great a great name for

692
00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 3: an agency official for international development. In fact, he launched

693
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 3: a social media messaging network in Cuba called Zunzunio that

694
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 3: was very much resembling Twitter, and it was used by

695
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 3: thousands of Cubans who were unaware that the project was

696
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 3: actually designed to essentially infiltrate their privacy and monitor their

697
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 3: communications to get a sense of what was going on

698
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 3: on the ground there in Cuba.

699
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:27,800
Speaker 2: Well, and according to the AP from twenty fourteen, it

700
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 2: was also to stir up unrest within the country by

701
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 2: affecting the populace like that was one of the goals

702
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:44,919
Speaker 2: of this thing whoops or you know, score, depending.

703
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 3: On which side you know.

704
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

705
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 3: Another example, Ben, I know this was one of your favorites,

706
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 3: was the National Endowment for Democracy or NED, which was

707
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 3: funded by the US Congress.

708
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:57,959
Speaker 4: Yeah.

709
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: This comes to us from an investigative reporter named Robert

710
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: Perry pa R r. Y. Perry writes that NED National

711
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: Endowment for Democracy took over the CIA's role of influencing

712
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: electoral outcomes and destabilizing governments that got in the way

713
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: of US interests. So do you have a left wing,

714
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: duly elected president who's a little bit to leftist? Is

715
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: this guy? Does this guy have the nerve to nationalize

716
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: that country's resources they're oil, their gas, they're heavy metals,

717
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,320
Speaker 1: their timber, or to alter.

718
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 2: The currency that is being exchanged for those resources.

719
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what I mean, as far as it

720
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: seems like, as far as the geopolitical apparatus is concerned,

721
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 1: people can burn flags all they want, so long as

722
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: they buy those flags with dollars US dollars. That's I mean.

723
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: You know, there's a case to make that the real

724
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: flag of a country is its currency.

725
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: What was the name of the care We did an

726
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 3: episode earlier today, Ben and I ridiculous history about Ernest

727
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: Hemingway's younger brother who tried to declare a sovereign nation

728
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 3: on a raft and he had a really cool name

729
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 3: for the currency of New Atlantis, right, scruples, scruples.

730
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: Because they thought wealthy people should have a lot of scruples. Right, Yeah,

731
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: that's a that's a true story.

732
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:24,839
Speaker 2: But this is this is this thing we're talking about

733
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 2: destabilizing governments that the United States, specifically the CIA has

734
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:34,839
Speaker 2: an issue with. That's an interest in, all right, but yes,

735
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 2: for various strategic reasons. It's just it's rough that that's

736
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: the avenue through which it's occurring, through these supposedly you know,

737
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 2: good organizations that are trying to do good for a world.

738
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 2: This is really bothering me.

739
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 3: Guys, you're saying you just think it's inherently ichy and wrong.

740
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 3: It feels very ichy.

741
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 2: It's so cloak, I mean, it is, Okay, it's so

742
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: perfectly cloak and dagger, I suppose. And yet once you'd

743
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 2: think that once it's found out that this kind of

744
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 2: thing is occurring, let's say, from those reports, that nineteen

745
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: sixty seven report from CBS, once that's found out you'd think, oh, well,

746
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: maybe that ended right. We figured that out and the

747
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 2: world figured it out. It's over now.

748
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing, though I wish there were a

749
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 1: better response than Yeah, that's the thing. That's a big

750
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: oo for me.

751
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 2: Man.

752
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, places like NED or organizations like NED, these kind

753
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: of slush funds for foreign policy operations that are a

754
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 1: little that are not above the board. This is a

755
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 1: prolific practice. And it's only a practice because it works.

756
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,840
Speaker 1: It's not like everybody chose a theme just for the

757
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: sake of esthetics. There's undeniable proof that the CIA has

758
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: conspired and is likely conspireen as we speak, to execute

759
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: illegal campaigns in other countries using NGOs and charities as

760
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: co again not necessarily the fault of the charities, not

761
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: the fault of the NGOs. In fact, there's a case

762
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: to be made that these innocent people may have their

763
00:45:10,239 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: lives put in danger if one of these intelligence operations

764
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: goes wrong.

765
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 3: But you know, with this being such an open secret,

766
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 3: like you said, and with that sixty seven investigation uncovering

767
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,680
Speaker 3: so much of this cloak and daggery, surely you know

768
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 3: sovereign nations are hipped to this and don't want this

769
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,879
Speaker 3: kind of influence infiltrating their borders. Surely we would feel

770
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 3: the same from ngeos from other countries, you know, masquerading

771
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 3: behind this idea of do good ory this veil. Right.

772
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 3: Aren't there laws that would prevent this kind of stuff

773
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 3: from happening.

774
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: It's a good question. There are a lot now Before

775
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 1: we anybody in the more skeptical side of the audience

776
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: relegates this to the land of alarmism and sensationalism in

777
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 1: tinfoil hattery. Note that other world powers are very aware

778
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: of this strategy have participated in it on their own.

779
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: You can see again in that sixty seven investigation there's

780
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 1: a little bit of what aboutism on the side of

781
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,560
Speaker 1: people who say, yeah, the CIA does do these dirty

782
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: deeds thun dirt cheap to other countries, but that other

783
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,680
Speaker 1: powers are doing the same thing. Like there's this fantastic

784
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: footage of a Russian organized huge concert. It was a blowout,

785
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 1: but it was all to make the great idea of

786
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,479
Speaker 1: Cold War communism more palatable and to make it cool.

787
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: It was a war for the hearts and minds. And

788
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 1: we also know that people take this seriously because many

789
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: other countries have made laws explicitly banning inngo's foreign owned

790
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 1: in geos from their borders. Amnesty International was a very

791
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: interesting source on this because they're you know, they're pro

792
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: and GEO. Well what could go wrong, right, and they

793
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: do great work. They say that governments across the world

794
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 1: are increasingly attacking in geos by creating laws that subject

795
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 1: them in their staff to surveillance, bureaucratic hurdles, and the

796
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 1: ever present threat of imprisonment. And they have a lot

797
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: of examples here too.

798
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 2: Yes, and we have a quote here from Amnesty International.

799
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 2: It says in the past two years alone, almost forty

800
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 2: pieces of legislation that interfere with the right to assemble

801
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: and are designed to hamper the work of civil society

802
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 2: organizations have been put in place or are in the

803
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 2: works around the world. These laws commonly include implementing ludicrous

804
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:39,720
Speaker 2: registration processes for organizations, monitoring their work, restricting their sources

805
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 2: of resources, and in many cases, shutting them down if

806
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 2: they don't adhere to the unreasonable requirements imposed on them.

807
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this could be killing people with the thousand

808
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,160
Speaker 1: paper cuts of paper work, you know, like you need

809
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: you need approval to assemble or to hold this meeting

810
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: right to tell people about d the benefits of sanitation,

811
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 1: or to teach people how to for being totally totally

812
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: benevolent about it. Let's say you're trying to teach people

813
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: how to operate and maintain a solar power phone charging station,

814
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: right and valuable. That's great stuff. And then let's say

815
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: the country and what you're trying to do, this doesn't

816
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: care for your whole the cut of your jib, and

817
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 1: so they say, okay, to hold this class where you

818
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: teach this, you have to get approval from this authority,

819
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: and that authority has to approve it sixty days before

820
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: you do this. However, that approval can only be submitted

821
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: thirty days before you have the things. So now you're

822
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: in to catch twenty two bureaucratically. It's weird. It's a

823
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: weird flex for sure. But we also have examples of

824
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: specific countries who have started banning or excluding NGOs. Make

825
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: no mistake because of these concerns that spies may be

826
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: infiltrating the country via NGOs.

827
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 3: So Pakistan's Ministry of the Interior rejected registration applications from

828
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 3: eighteen international NGOs in October of twenty eighteen, and they

829
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 3: dismissed all of the appeals that came without giving a reason.

830
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:27,720
Speaker 3: They are clearly very suspicious of these agencies. Just in general,

831
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:31,839
Speaker 3: in Saudi Arabia, the government can deny licenses to new

832
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 3: organizations and disband them a step further, even if they

833
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 3: are deemed to be quote harming national unity. And this

834
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,400
Speaker 3: has affected human rights groups, including women's human rights groups,

835
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 3: who have not been able to register and operate freely

836
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 3: in the country. This is a really good example of like,

837
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 3: you know, a couple of bad apples spoiling the bunch,

838
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:54,320
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, because as we said at the

839
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 3: top of the show, clearly there is good work being

840
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,800
Speaker 3: done by these NGOs. Well because of a few bad actors,

841
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:05,439
Speaker 3: everyone that's like, you know, everyone kind of gets screwed, right.

842
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 2: Well, it's also a convenient reason to keep things as

843
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 2: they are, right, Like, if you're talking especially about women's

844
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 2: rights groups operating in Saudi arabia's absolutely right. I mean,

845
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 2: if you can just ban a group that is advocating

846
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 2: for a certain thing because of reason a.

847
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:24,760
Speaker 3: Potential threat to our sovereignty or whatever.

848
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and and that that phrase, like I'd

849
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,360
Speaker 2: love to get your take on that phrase been national

850
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 2: harming national unity.

851
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean same sex equality is seen

852
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 1: as harming national unity. That's right. Arabia, that's right.

853
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:41,400
Speaker 2: That's that's kind of what we're talking about. And you

854
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 2: can kind of see that at play, that kind of

855
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 2: phrasing at play in countries across the world, even ones

856
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 2: that you, you know, you may live in right now

857
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 2: that you identify with as like having this equality thing down, Pat,

858
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 2: Perhaps perhaps it's not that way. That's right.

859
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 3: I mean, the very basis of your national unity could

860
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 3: be on the wrong side of human rights.

861
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 2: In general as a whole. Yeah, those aveiled shade at

862
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,959
Speaker 2: the United States, by the way, just everybody's aware.

863
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: Okay, well take off cantail in general. But this is

864
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: an interesting case, and I'm glad you brought it up

865
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 1: because in the case of Saudi Arabia, yeah, there might

866
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: be some insidious intelligence agency activity going on, but it's

867
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: also just as likely it's more likely that a lot

868
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: of those in geos are getting shut down because they

869
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,799
Speaker 1: are advocating for things that in the West are seen

870
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: as in alienable human rights. Bell Reus goes a little

871
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 1: bit further. Any in GEO that can operate in the

872
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: country is closely observed scrutinized by the state. And if

873
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: you work for any in GOO who tried to register

874
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 1: and got rejected, you have committed a crime and you

875
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: may be in prison, and you may also just disappear.

876
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 2: You should probably get out.

877
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:08,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, these are just a few examples. Other countries Azerbaijan,

878
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: China and of course Russia have introduced more registration and

879
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: reporting requirements and if you don't comply, you can be

880
00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:21,960
Speaker 1: thrown in prison. Which is it sounds weird, you know,

881
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 1: to say that you didn't complete some paperwork, so now

882
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 1: you're going to jail, possibly for a long long time,

883
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: especially if you're foreign national, right, because usually we think, well,

884
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 1: if you don't do paperwork, right, you get a fine

885
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: for being late, you know.

886
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, unless it's I'm trying to think of like a

887
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,919
Speaker 2: really bad traffic violation where you actually end up having

888
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:48,279
Speaker 2: to go to jail for a couple of days if

889
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 2: you don't fill out your paperwork i e. Pay or

890
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 2: show up.

891
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I guess for people on probation, that's paperwork

892
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: that can get you in trouble. But we mentioned Russia.

893
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: Maybe the lead a little bit here. Russia is one

894
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: of the most well known anti in GEO organizations. They

895
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: a few years back banned all NGOs that they considered undesirable.

896
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 2: It's true.

897
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:19,320
Speaker 3: The government has regularly labeled NGOs who receive foreign funding

898
00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 3: as foreign agents, which is a term that you could

899
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 3: very easily correlate to ones that are a little more

900
00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 3: direct like spy, traitor, enemy of the state. The government

901
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 3: applies this kind of thinking so broadly, not only thinking

902
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 3: actual legislation, that even an organization that supports people with

903
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 3: say diabetes, actually gets could be subject to fines, put

904
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 3: on a blacklist of foreign agents, and forced to close.

905
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 3: This is not hypothetical. This actually happened in October of

906
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen. Medical Environment, until women's groups, all of these

907
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 3: have also come under serious scrutiny and fire from the

908
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 3: Russian government, and all of these moves have really galvanized

909
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 3: the developing world and launched a kind of a renaissance

910
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,120
Speaker 3: of anti NGO legislation.

911
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:23,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so for anyone listening now who has dedicated

912
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 1: their life to service, thank you for being one of

913
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: the good forces in the world, even though I'm sure

914
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: at times it feels like you are outnumbered. If you're

915
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,480
Speaker 1: having a hard time trying to understand why these countries

916
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: would so profoundly distrust in Geo's, think about it this way.

917
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 1: If you are in the US or Australia or wherever

918
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: you're listening to this show, imagine how you would feel

919
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 1: if there were organizations from say China or Russia or

920
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: Iran popping up in the capitol, popping up in your town,

921
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: and they were funneling hundreds of of millions of dollars

922
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: given to them by their parent government just to influence

923
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:10,680
Speaker 1: your local politics. Right, so now now it doesn't matter

924
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,240
Speaker 1: how you vote, because there is a new special interest

925
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: group in town. They have more money than you could

926
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 1: ever raise, and they have a bigger say, even though

927
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 1: they don't live where you live.

928
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 2: And even if it's not specifically influencing politics, but it's

929
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:27,880
Speaker 2: influencing some kind of social norm or movement, right you know,

930
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:33,480
Speaker 2: just that perhaps your immediate area doesn't agree with I mean,

931
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 2: that would be that would be very strange if it

932
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 2: was coming, If that money is coming and influence is

933
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 2: coming from outside of your own country, that it would

934
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 2: certainly feel.

935
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: Odd, and it feels like an attack on sovereignty. You know,

936
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:49,800
Speaker 1: this would understandably here in the US, this would generate

937
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: a lot of anger if people were aware of this,

938
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: especially if these groups tried to tilt an election one

939
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 1: way or another. But suppose they weren't just trying to

940
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: tilt an election. They had success doing that, and now

941
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 1: they wanted to upend the system of government. This is

942
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,320
Speaker 1: something that the US financed NGOs have done in the past,

943
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,560
Speaker 1: or sorry, people operating out of those NGOs. Again, the

944
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: NGOs may have no knowledge of what's actually happening, and

945
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: this has occurred numerous times. This is rinse and repeat

946
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: because again it works, and the story is not over.

947
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: Our only conclusion we can make is that NGOs are

948
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,480
Speaker 1: not going away. The CIA is pretty open about the

949
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:32,479
Speaker 1: fact that they dig it. They're like, we like working

950
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: with these guys.

951
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, they actually have a term for They coin it

952
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 3: deep cooperation between the agency and these NGOs, and they

953
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 3: refer to this whole process as quote information sharing end quote.

954
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:48,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

955
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,279
Speaker 3: So I don't know, it seems pretty unlikely that that's

956
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:53,240
Speaker 3: the end of the story.

957
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's really quickly let's mention something that that

958
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 2: CBS News special report to talk about and that is

959
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 2: the Security Act of nineteen forty seven, just to give

960
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,880
Speaker 2: an idea of why, why the heck is the CIA

961
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: operating in this way, Because as we learned back back

962
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 2: in the old days in our school books, we learned

963
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 2: that the Central Intelligence Agency is in fact an intelligence agency,

964
00:57:18,040 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 2: and it is meant to carry out what would be

965
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 2: called intelligence in all the various ways we've talked about

966
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 2: on this show numerous times. Yeah, gathering information, right, But

967
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 2: because of that Security Act of nineteen forty seven, they

968
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:38,240
Speaker 2: were essentially ordered through this Act to do a whole

969
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 2: bunch of other things, and all of these things that

970
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 2: they would have to do then and now are currently

971
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 2: having to do our duties quote as directed by the

972
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 2: President and his National Security Council. And that phrase is

973
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 2: so vague it allows essentially whoever the standing president is

974
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,400
Speaker 2: and the National Security Council, which have elected officials, are

975
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 2: in there. They get to direct the CIA outside of

976
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 2: the Director of the CIA, or at least nudge very

977
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 2: harshly what they need to do and what they should

978
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:13,200
Speaker 2: be interested in.

979
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,439
Speaker 3: It reminds me of the term, which I've always found

980
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 3: weird and a little creepy, serving at the pleasure of

981
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 3: the president.

982
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you're going to a Chick fil a.

983
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:23,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

984
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:26,560
Speaker 2: Well, and in that case, it doesn't matter who the

985
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 2: president is, because if you've got we talked about it

986
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,040
Speaker 2: in an episode not long ago, But if you've got

987
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 2: you know, a security council with officials that have been

988
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 2: on there for a long time, who see a big picture,

989
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 2: who see the chess moves, I can only imagine what

990
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,320
Speaker 2: things occur, what other countries perhaps should be very much

991
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 2: aware of.

992
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 1: Well said, And that's a great question. Are other nations

993
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: right to be concerned? Is there a solution to this problem?

994
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: Or's the money gotten too good? Is the system too effective?

995
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: The question it's not whether the machine is broken, because

996
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, there's an argument to be made that the

997
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,439
Speaker 1: people who are running this thing love it. It's doing

998
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 1: what they wanted.

999
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 3: To know exactly what it's doing, and then and what

1000
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 3: their role in all of it is for sure, right,

1001
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 3: it reminds me very much of diplomatic immunity and functioning

1002
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 3: out of embassies. Yeah, yeah, I was thinking the same

1003
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 3: thing when it in terms of the uh, the aid

1004
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:24,080
Speaker 3: workers or whatever, the NGO employees being able to get

1005
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 3: kind of carte blanche. Uh, that's that's the sort of

1006
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 3: the root of some of these laws where they're like, no,

1007
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:32,040
Speaker 3: you can't come anymore, we don't want you.

1008
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: We know what you did. Are you familiar with the

1009
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:36,520
Speaker 1: term Cranberry?

1010
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,360
Speaker 2: Oh, I know a guy named Cranston.

1011
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: Lock him up. But we want to we want to

1012
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: hear from you, as we said earlier, if you have been,

1013
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:50,080
Speaker 1: if you have been abroad or here in the US,

1014
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: we're in your home country helping out with a non

1015
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 1: governmental organization. Thank you for the work you're doing. Thank

1016
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: you for making the world a better place, because for pizza,

1017
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: we need the help. And if you have, if you

1018
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: have experience with anything sketchy going on in one of

1019
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,040
Speaker 1: these organizations, we would love to hear from you.

1020
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 3: So like the Peace Corps would be one, right, Yeah,

1021
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 3: a lot of people go to the Peace Corps.

1022
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's an upstanding, fine organization. Everything's

1023
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:17,720
Speaker 2: fine about in the Peace Corps.

1024
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 1: There used to be a statue for the founder of

1025
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: the Peace Corps at our old office. I remember, you know,

1026
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: that's where you that's when you made it. When you

1027
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: have a statue, that's a flex made And that's our

1028
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:35,520
Speaker 1: classic episode for this Evening We can't wait to hear

1029
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: your thoughts. It's right let us know what you think.

1030
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:39,360
Speaker 3: You can reach to the anmlic Conspiracy Stuff where we

1031
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 3: exist on Facebook X and YouTube on Instagram and TikTok

1032
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:44,919
Speaker 3: or Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1033
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 2: If you want to call us dial one eight three

1034
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 2: three std WYTK. That's our voicemail system. You've got three minutes.

1035
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:54,720
Speaker 2: Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know if

1036
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

1037
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 2: If you got more to say than can fit in

1038
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 2: that voicemail, why not instead send us a good old

1039
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 2: fashioned email.

1040
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: We are the entities that read every single piece of

1041
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:09,960
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive. Be aware, yet not afraid. Sometimes the

1042
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1043
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

1044
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:39,400
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1045
01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.