WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra - Joey Levin 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.440 I'm Jason Kelly and I'm Carol Masser. Welcome to the 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:05.800 Bloomberg Business Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast, bringing you 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.200 an in depth interview you will not hear anywhere else. 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:11.280 And Jason, this really is an exclusive interview. It's one 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:13.560 of the folks of the Bloomberg fifty. We're talking about 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:17.960 I A C CEO, Joey Levin. I trooped down to 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.520 his headquarters here in New York City. Of course, the 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.520 headquarters alone are iconic now on the West Side. You 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:29.120 can't drive up the West Side Highway without picking them out. 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.720 Barry Diller, he's behind it. Joey Levin, though he was 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:37.480 a longtime lieutenant, he's now running the show. Here's your conversation. 0:00:37.800 --> 0:00:41.960 So congratulations Bloomberg fifty. Here at I A c headquarters, 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:44.720 Thanks for hosting. So I want to go back to 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:49.240 the beginning and and understand how you got here because 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:53.480 you're a banker. Yeah, I don't like to admit that 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:56.760 that's true. I was. I was a banker, and actually 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.160 I learned a tremendous amount. I'm I don't I don't 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.720 at all regret having done it. I didn't. It wasn't 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.040 my favorite thing. I ever did, but I learned a 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:05.880 tremendous amount, and I think it opened up a lot 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:07.640 of opportunities for me in terms of just how to 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:10.480 think about things and and uh, I didn't know what 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:12.280 I wanted to do out of college, and there was 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:13.840 where I went to college, there was a lot of 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:16.240 banks that did a lot of recruiting, and they pulled 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.119 me into uh the sort of tech bubble, which sort 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:20.760 of the peak of the tech bubble, which is when 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.160 the recruiting started. It was a fall two thousand when 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.560 things were just about to crest over and by the 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:31.200 time I started, they had the bubble had burst. And uh, 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.280 they offered me thirty thousand dollars not to show up 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:37.880 to the job, but I decided to show up anyway. Yeah. Wow, Yeah, 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:39.960 it was. It was a really interesting time. And I 0:01:40.000 --> 0:01:41.399 think it's a great time to get started on a 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.280 career because you could if I had started two years early, 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.559 I would have thought you could do nothing wrong. Uh, 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:49.280 And I started, uh two years later, and it was 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:51.280 you could do nothing right and you really had to 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:53.280 grind out to figure out how to make things work. 0:01:53.960 --> 0:01:56.960 And uh, I'm actually pretty I'm grateful for that, but 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.640 so I came to I See to do mergers and acquisitions, 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.840 which is what I was doing as a banker. Uh 0:02:03.880 --> 0:02:05.720 and really Barry had told the market he wanted to 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:07.880 spend ten billion dollars on acquisitions in the Internet. And 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.280 I thought that that is Uh, that sounds like a 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.760 lot of fun. And the this was two thousand three 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.880 and the Internet was not popular. It was people said, 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.880 we we advertising doesn't work on the internet. We were 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.040 not buying eyeballs anymore. And and this thing's overdone. And 0:02:23.080 --> 0:02:25.960 we thought there's still a lot of opportunity here, and 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:27.720 uh we did. We went and spent most of that 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.440 money in travel, but we we were very active in that. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.320 And and M and A was very sort of core 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:34.960 to the center of I C. And so I got 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.919 to know uh, Barry and the vice chairman, Victor conform 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.240 very well. We're all very involved in this process, uh 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.240 and uh and and Dara was there then who's who's 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:47.960 now at uber And it was a great group of 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.720 people who I learned to train his tremendous amount from 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:54.720 and UH started doing acquisitions, then started doing some finance stuff, 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.760 and then started running my first business in two thousand nine. 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.919 And so go back to sort of joining and I 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:05.080 mean at that point, Barry Diller is capital B, capital D, 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:07.359 very dill. I mean like he's he's not an unknown 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.600 at that point. What were your first impressions of working 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.200 for him? It was funny. People had all these things 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.040 of Okay, you're going into your first meeting with Berry. 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:19.160 Are you're going into a meeting with Berry. Don't look 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:21.359 at him. I don't look directly at him, but don't 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.040 look away from it. I was like, what, there was 0:03:24.080 --> 0:03:26.080 all these like rules that people were trying to give me, 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.480 and you go into the meeting. He's he's the regular person. 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:31.880 He's very intense, and he's very sharp, and he gets 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.280 to the point on everything very quickly, and and sort 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.960 of intolerant of kind of nonsense or waste. But he's 0:03:39.000 --> 0:03:43.120 just the person in a meeting. And Uh. The thing 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:46.560 that I appreciated right away and still appreciate today very 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:51.320 much is this culture of debate and discussion and challenging 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.040 and it's it's it's a lot of ways. It's it's 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:55.680 hard to do as a leader because you say to 0:03:55.720 --> 0:04:00.840 everybody you know, essentially everything I say, you should challenge 0:04:00.880 --> 0:04:03.880 everything I say, you should disagree with everything and and 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.160 to make sure that that you get to the right answer. 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.080 And it is a definitively a better way of getting 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:11.080 to the right answer. But it is a hard thing 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.040 and something that Barry has has always embraced. And it 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.240 doesn't work for everybody, you know, some people don't don't 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.400 like that kind of culture. But but it worked well 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:23.240 for me and my personality and and we end up 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.080 getting along. But I didn't really get to Nobury even 0:04:25.080 --> 0:04:26.440 though I was in meeting with Barry. I protaly didn't 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:28.520 get the no Bury it until several years into being 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:32.680 a right And did you anticipate when you got here 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.080 that you would be here for for this long? Because 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:38.000 you know, in today's day and age like it's a 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:41.279 pretty long tenure at one place, it is? Uh? And 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:47.279 did I anticipate it? No, I definitely did not anticipate it. 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:53.200 But did I desire that? Yeah. When I remember when 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:56.040 I was interviewing for jobs out of investment banking, I 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:59.440 very quickly knew I didn't want to be an investment banker, 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:01.400 and and I was learning a lot, and I was 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:02.880 grateful for all the people that I was working with. 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.280 I just knew that that wasn't for me long term. 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:07.480 So I started doing interviews. And one of the things 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:11.400 that investment bankers frequently interview for his private equity or 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:14.680 asset ban mantural alterna advances, and I was uh. So, 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.200 I was interviewing with a private a great private equity fund, 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.599 and they said, what do you want to uh, you know, 0:05:21.680 --> 0:05:22.960 talk to us about what you want to do or 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:24.440 where you want to be in a few years. I said, 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:28.599 I'd like to be, you know, in a company, running 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.160 a company, you know, driving business, building a product. And 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.120 they said, well, then what are you doing here? I said, 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.279 A good point, and so I left and I actually 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:39.840 started talking to Ice then, and I thought when I 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.279 went there, I want to be a part of building something. 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.720 And uh, Barry is very much a builder, and I 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.000 see as a company very much about building and building 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:51.520 companies and uh and so I got very lucky in 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:53.360 that sense. Well, and as you pointed out, I mean 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:56.040 M and A has been at the core of this 0:05:56.120 --> 0:06:00.640 company in a lot of ways, Um, both buying and 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:03.360 selling in many ways and spinning off. And we'll get 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:07.640 to that, I'm sure a little later in the conversation. Um, 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.280 how does that sort of help define the culture because 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.560 there's a lot of movement, and there's a lot of 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:16.719 constant uh coming and going in many ways, and a 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.560 lot of innovation, I would imagine, but also potential friction 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:22.920 among all of these new things happening all the time. 0:06:22.960 --> 0:06:25.640 How do you manage that? Uh, Well, there's a lot 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:29.880 in there. We we we like the friction. Um. We 0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:33.919 like that things challenge themselves and each other. We frequently 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.680 have multiple businesses in the same category competing with each other. 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.000 Our view is we'd rather disrupt ourselves than have somebody 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.480 disrupt us, and so so we're we're often if we 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.920 have a thesis on a category, we want several teams 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.640 going after it and several businesses going after it. And 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.520 it's okay if they compete with each other and challenge 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.560 each other in in going after that um and result. 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:00.520 Because in many ways you can you can predict some 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:02.520 components of the future. No one can predict the future, 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:05.440 but you can say there's here's one way of doing something, 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.680 and here's a better way of doing something. Five years 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:09.159 from now or ten years from now, our people are 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.120 gonna be doing it the better way or the worst way. Well, 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:12.880 they're definitely gonna be doing it the better way. Right, 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:14.560 you don't know where you're going to get the right 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.520 team that that's going to figure out how to do 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.800 the better way better than the other people figuring out 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.360 the better way. But you you do know that that's 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.200 what the future is going to look like. And so 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:24.600 what we try and do is put a lot of 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.920 bets against that future so that that we can meaningfully 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:32.520 participate in it. And uh that that sometimes leads the conflict, 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.320 that sometimes leads to multiple bets in the same category 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:38.680 or friction in your words, and that's something that's okay 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:42.080 with us, right. It feels like it's baked in it is. 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:46.760 I was we uh one of our board members, h 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.920 Chelsea Clinton. We we did a town hall yesterday with 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.360 a bunch of employees. So I was, you know, I 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.440 was in your seat interviewing her, and she said something 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:59.480 which I thought was very interesting. It's it's a a 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.840 sort of revolution on something or a turn on something 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.400 that we say internally, which is inertia is a very 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.840 powerful and the most underrated force and in in business, both 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.119 for good and for bad. And what Chelsea described said 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:17.160 from her observance as a board member, is that we 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.920 go out of our way to reject inertia, you know, 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:25.080 and again for good and for bad. Don't don't overestimate 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.720 a tailwind. Uh, don't don't believe too much that that 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:35.520 a tailwind is your own brilliance. Um. And also don't 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.640 be sort of intimidated by those those headwinds and figure 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.160 out how to push through that. And I think that 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:44.800 that is an important point in there. And so, you know, 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:47.680 going back to two thousand three and sort of fast 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.160 forwarding to the present, the internet is a very different 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:53.280 place than it was in two thousand three. How do 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.800 you define the Internet? It's a big question, But how 0:08:55.800 --> 0:08:58.200 do you define the Internet from a business perspective in 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:06.160 twenty nineteen, Um, what where the Internet? The sort of 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:10.000 mind blowing thing In the beginning of the Internet, the 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.160 sort of I don't know, we'll call it the first phase. 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:13.880 I'll call the first phase for now of the internet 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:20.679 was choice and breadth. You recall when Google came out, 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:23.080 people that they're big thing was one of you know, 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:26.760 million results when when you do a search and people's 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:28.960 minds were blown by that. Appropriately, I mean, it was 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:34.760 just amazing that you could ask about some uh, Nike 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:39.679 shoes of some particular year and see ten million results 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:46.040 of about that and UH, that was the first and 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.520 really interesting phase of the Internet. And in a way 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:53.040 it's gone, it's gone the complete opposite of that today. 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.480 So today it's actually about how do you narrow the 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.040 choice right? How do you get to the one answer? 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.320 Because now all ways ten million you can't really do 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:05.680 anything with ten million U choices. You you that that's 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:08.040 not that helpful. As much as it is fascinating, it's 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.440 not that helpful. You need to get to the answer right, 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.080 the one answer. And so now all the platforms are 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.400 about not giving choice, but giving uh a solution, right, 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.599 And we're thinking about that in a lot of our businesses. 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:25.400 Take um Angie Homes Services for example, where we are 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.720 matching consumers with home service professionals. Right now, we match 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:32.480 you with with several and UH, to the extent someone 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:34.440 wants that, we will continue to match them with several. 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:36.920 What we see is many consumers want to be matched 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.040 with just the right one. Just just tell me. I. 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.280 We've grown up knowing platforms, knowing the Internet, and we 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:44.200 know which brands we want to trust and which brands 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.240 we don't want to trust. And if it's a brand retrust, 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.840 just save me the trouble, give me the answer. And 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.960 and that's what what we're we're trying to do now 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.040 with Angie and with other our businesses too. I mean, 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:56.720 it's it's it's harder in dating. I'd like to say 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:59.720 that we could find a person and we can say, okay, boom, 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.160 here's a person for you, married next week, and and 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.440 off you go. I don't think that's realistic ever in 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.640 that category. But we can get better with our algorithms. 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:10.640 We can't get better at matching people as we learn 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.600 more so that you don't have to go through, you know, 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:16.880 hundreds of conversations, maybe you go through dozens of conversations 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.720 or less than that, and to get to find people 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:22.000 that you might be compatible with. And when you think 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:26.520 about sort of the Internet again broadly defined in twenty nineteen, 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:28.839 it feels like if we went back to two thousand three, 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.480 or certainly even in earlier, there was a lot of enthusiasm, 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:35.880 you know, a lot of just excitement about what it 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.680 could be. Today it feels like there's more skepticism, you know, 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.000 whether it's from regulators, whether it's from some of the 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:45.679 companies themselves, whether it's from consumers. How do you read 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.560 this moment where we are, you know, sort of broadly 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:50.560 defined as this sort of tech lash for lack of 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:53.120 a better term. It's funny because it's the exact same 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.880 thing that was what everyone was so excited about in 0:11:55.920 --> 0:12:00.760 the beginning, which was the the the monopolies of the 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:04.080 duopolies or the or the the power that was concentrated 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.840 in the hands of a few. The Internet came through 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.240 and said no, no more, We're gonna distribute this and 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.559 anyone could do anything. Anyone's empowered. You can start a business, 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:14.760 you can reach consumers. You don't need to go through 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:19.520 a a privately owned platform to reach end users. You 0:12:19.559 --> 0:12:22.320 don't need an infinite amount of money to reach end users. 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.040 You can open your shop on the Internet and boom, 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:29.160 you can reach the world. And that distribution was phenomenal 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.559 and led to so much innovation and so much excitement. 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:36.720 That's why people were so excited. What happened is that 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:41.920 power got reconcentrated again and a handful of hands, uh. 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:44.720 And those are the companies that are in the headlines 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.160 and part of that tech lash, and those companies do 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:53.720 have enormous power they're kingmakers of other companies, of individuals, 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:59.400 of of UH politicians for not necessarily by design, but 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:03.880 sometimes by accident. UH. That is a you know that 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:05.720 that goes back to that scary thing, and people don't 0:13:05.720 --> 0:13:07.600 like to be in that position where there's a handful 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:10.520 of people with a very significant amount of power. It's 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:14.800 a sort of more American democratic thing to see that distributed. 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:16.760 And I think people want to see that happen again. 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:18.760 And what do you see as I a c S 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.600 role in essentially combating that. Well, our biggest thing is 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:27.800 having great independent products and having those products resonate with users. 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:33.440 If we are UH, if we can communicate a very 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.000 compelling product experience in our category to a user, I 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:39.640 believe we can win. And I believe we can we 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.760 have historically, and I believe we can continue to defeat 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:47.400 the giants. UM. The giants can compete with us, sometimes 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.719 over implicitly, sometimes explicitly, but they do compete with us. 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:56.120 We also benefit hugely and have benefited usually from their scale, 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.679 UH knowing how to use those platforms to to acquire 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:04.040 audio its, to to interact with with customers or potential customers, 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:06.920 and those platforms have been hugely helpful to us in 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:10.480 building our business, but also increasingly as they look for growth, 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:12.439 they are competing with us, and that's something that we 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.560 have to do and you just win that on on 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.160 a better product. So help me understand. One of your 0:14:18.200 --> 0:14:21.200 strategies seems to be keep me honest here sort of 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:25.400 a build, build and spin or build and sell. Obviously 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.280 that happens with with matches in the process of happening 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.840 with match And I think you've said that you want 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:34.520 things only to get so big. You're not empire building 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.120 to something said, help me understand the thinking underneath that. Sure, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.320 so I'll correct one small thing, which is build and 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.920 sell is rarely something that we do. We don't think 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.960 of a spin as a sale. We have sold companies 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:49.880 that generally, when we're selling a company, it's just because 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.400 we haven't figured out how to make it work for us. 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:56.560 Um it doesn't sort of fit and we we can't. 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.720 We can't get it going and in our ambition and 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:03.160 else may be able to do it better. Uh, spinning 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.240 is different. Spinning, it's our shareholders get it. We just 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.200 give it to our shareholders and they can continue to 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.920 hold it forever. And when we look at our track 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.000 record over time. We we presume that somebody comes in 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:14.600 and from the moment they come in, they continue to 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:16.400 hold everything forever. They can just hold it in separate 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:21.200 pockets instead of all in one pocket. Uh. And the 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.960 reason that we do that is it there's lots of 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:28.880 micro reasons, and sometimes there's tactical reasons, but the main 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.480 reason that we do it is we like the process 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:33.960 of building. We like the process of starting over. And 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:38.200 when you have something huge, it overshadows everything else. And 0:15:38.280 --> 0:15:40.240 Match is such a good business, is doing so well 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:45.920 right now, and and and investors care tremendously about it, 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:50.920 and anything else we do is basically irrelevant relative to 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.280 how many subscribers Tender had in the quarter. And when 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.720 you get to that level, at some point you say, Okay, 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.520 this thing has the ability to be off on its own. 0:16:00.160 --> 0:16:02.760 And if we if we put that thing at zone, 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:04.880 then we can focus again on the smaller things. Because 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.600 when we're focused on the smaller things, you put that 0:16:07.680 --> 0:16:09.520 kind of energy in it, there's nowhere to hide and 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:11.840 you you've gotta uh, you've gotta make those work. And 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.880 we like that process. So Match underway. It is the 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:19.440 idea you'll do something similar with Angie Home Services. I'd 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:22.160 hope to at some point. Uh We've said right now 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.640 we're not focused on that. We're focused on trying to 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:28.520 get matched on um but at some point that that 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:32.040 that very well may make sense. But you know, there's 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.640 all kinds of considerations and and where and when, in 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.400 timing and how and all those things are are kind 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:42.040 of wide open. And so when you look through the 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:44.720 rest of the portfolio, where are you spending a lot 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:50.920 of your time either building or uh, you know, expanding, 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:52.480 what are you what are you most excited about? I 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:54.600 know that's like having you pick among your children. But 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.880 uh so, first of all, you maybe do it in 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:04.119 terms of size. Angie is a huge one and is 0:17:04.359 --> 0:17:07.680 a I think a fantastic business in a fantastic category 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:11.080 with an incredible lead that we can do really cool 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:15.560 things on product, and we're we're doing kind of the 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:23.159 most aggressive product evolution in Angie's history right now, and 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.080 we're very optimistic about what we can do with then. 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.480 So that's pretty exciting. I'm I'm spending a decent amount 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:33.560 of time on that. Uh. Next is uh in I 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:36.439 guess we could do it in order of profit, but 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:42.400 dot Dash. Dot Dash is I think the modern publisher, uh, 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:46.280 digital publisher, the all these other businesses have been in 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:49.280 the publishing category. There there's been a tremendous rise and 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.119 fall of publishing business and dot dash has just stayed 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:55.560 very focused on delivering people content what they call need 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.080 to know content. You can call it sort of pull 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.439 content as against push content. Push content. Is what you 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:03.480 and I are doing right now is we're presuming that 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.600 people want to hear from one of us and we're 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:07.560 doing an interview and we're shipping it out. They do, 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:11.760 I guarantee you they did. What what Dash is doing 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.000 is saying we know people are looking for this thing specifically, 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.320 which is what are the best hiking boots? Or uh, 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.000 what do I do about lower back pain? Or things 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.760 like that, and we're making sure that we create the 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:27.840 best content to answer those questions. What we say freshest, fastest, fewest, 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.680 freshest meaning to the extent there's anything updated in the category, 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.320 we're always constantly updating that. Fastest meaning we actually deliver 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:39.200 our our site faster than anybody else. And fewest meaning 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:40.800 having the fewest ads so that there's no room for 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:42.720 anybody else or no reason for anybody else to come in. 0:18:42.800 --> 0:18:44.680 We want a great consumer experience. We don't want to 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.160 over monetize it, and and nobody else is doing that 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.600 in that area. And we're finding that we can do 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:55.119 it very well, and we're we're going to outspend everybody 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:59.320 and having the best content in there. It's a I 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:02.720 am viciously make a Netflix analogy, and that what Netflix 0:19:02.800 --> 0:19:06.480 is doing on video content, we're trying to do on 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.080 sort of print or or this need to know content 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:15.320 outspending by far the best content in the category. And uh, 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.000 it's turning out to be a real business with a 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.400 real mode, nicely profitable and I think great growth potential. 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:22.960 All right, so let's go full white space here, you know, 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:27.359 beyond what you're doing now. When you're entertaining new ideas, 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:29.920 it needs you to tip your hand necessarily about the 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:32.480 next bit of while that you're welcome to um, But 0:19:32.680 --> 0:19:35.600 what what do you see out there for a consumer 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:39.280 in the media world and the publishing world, in the 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:45.520 broad internet defined where maybe there's some maybe there's some space, 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.040 there's a theme that's hitting on a bunch of our 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:53.080 businesses and totally new businesses, new categories altogether which is 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.119 how people find work and get work. We have a 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.800 very very tiny business today which is doing that called 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.920 Blue Crew, which is in the light industrial matching um 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.960 uh temp labor, hourly workers with employers and uh that's 0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:15.440 a really interesting one. But in more broadly, the process 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.920 of hiring and finding people who can do work, whether 0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:21.600 it's for an individual in their home, whether it's for 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.399 an employer with a full time employee and employer with 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:28.399 a part time employee. That entire process happens offline, and 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.439 software is very kind of minimally involved. It's involved the 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.680 front end, which is you can find people's resumes or 0:20:35.720 --> 0:20:38.639 lists of resumes or lists of list things online. But 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.680 that matching process I think can be done very well 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:44.320 with software, and we're doing that in Blue Crew in 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.280 this one area, and I think it can be done 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.480 in lots of areas, uh in a really interesting way. 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:51.440 And so we're spending a lot of time thinking about 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:53.520 that and pretty excited about it. What's your one big 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.480 lesson so far in your career? Best advice or best 0:20:56.560 --> 0:20:59.200 best advice you've gotten, our best advice you give now 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:05.600 as a CEO, uh Man, there's a lot. There's there's 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:11.399 a lot to choose from advice I've gotten. Um, my 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:17.080 favorite is really something that that Barry has pushed always 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:23.880 at I A C. Is think bigger and be ambitious 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.080 and passionate. That's what are the things that get people excited. 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:31.679