Speaker 1: My husband called. I said, what's going on? Because you
Speaker 1: have to get up. Your mother's been shot. What he means,
Speaker 1: she's been shot? Everything that I had known for fifty
Speaker 1: three years. I felt that it was just pulled out
Speaker 1: from underneath filmmaker, activists, and former US ambassador. This is
Speaker 1: her new book, Nicole he Thank you forgiveness for me?
Speaker 1: Was I am casting these burdens of anger and shame
Speaker 1: and doubt and disappointment and fury because I was furious.
Speaker 1: I hold on to these feelings. I'm going to sink myself.
Speaker 2: Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite
Speaker 2: you to join this community to hear more interviews that
Speaker 2: will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All
Speaker 2: I want you to do is click on the subscribe button.
Speaker 2: I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments,
Speaker 2: and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go
Speaker 2: on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing.
Speaker 2: It means the world to me.
Speaker 1: The best selling author on the host.
Speaker 2: The number one health and wellness podcast Purpose with Jay Shetty. Everyone,
Speaker 2: and welcome back to On Purpose, to number one health
Speaker 2: podcast in the world thanks to each and every one
Speaker 2: of you who come back every week to become happier, healthier,
Speaker 2: and more healed. And I'm so grateful because on this platform,
Speaker 2: I get to sit down with people with remarkable stories,
Speaker 2: incredible experiences, people who've been through challenges and hardships that
Speaker 2: we can all relate to and hopefully extract lessons, principles,
Speaker 2: blessings and insights from so that we too can help
Speaker 2: heal our hearts and lives. Today's guest is a dear friend,
Speaker 2: someone who I have connected with that really special moments
Speaker 2: and someone that I'm really excited to share her story,
Speaker 2: her love, her work with you. Today I'm speaking about
Speaker 2: Ambassador Nicole Avan, who served as the thirteenth US Ambassador
Speaker 2: to the Bahamas after being nominated by President Obama and
Speaker 2: unanimously confirmed by the US Senate, becoming the youngest as
Speaker 2: well as the first African American woman to hold the position. Today,
Speaker 2: we're talking about her new book that's out called Think
Speaker 2: You'll Be Happy Moving Through Grief with Grit, Grace and Gratitude.
Speaker 2: And Nicole kindly allowed my testimonial to be here, so
Speaker 2: you know how much I endorsed this book. I recommend
Speaker 2: a lot of books, but this is a book that
Speaker 2: I've realized I needed more in my life because of
Speaker 2: how many people I have in my life that are
Speaker 2: losing people that they love, and I now finally have
Speaker 2: the book to encourage people to read and receive in
Speaker 2: their life to know how to honor the people they love.
Speaker 2: Please welcome to On Purpose, Nicole Evan. Nicole, thank you.
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here. Beautiful introduction. I'm very honored.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: No, it's from the happy to be here now, Nicole.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean what I said, and I was
Speaker 2: just saying it too a few moments ago, and I
Speaker 2: wanted to repeat it for my community. I'm so grateful
Speaker 2: you wrote this book because honoring the people that we love,
Speaker 2: remembering what they taught us, what we gained from them,
Speaker 2: and then passing it on is without a doubt, one
Speaker 2: of the greatest acts of service that we could possibly
Speaker 2: ever do, not just to that individual, but to humanity. Yes,
Speaker 2: and I was so touched not only by you sharing
Speaker 2: this with me earlier when the writing process was happening,
Speaker 2: but you trusting me to be a part of this
Speaker 2: journey with you because it's so deeply important to you
Speaker 2: and it's so deeply intimate and close to you, and
Speaker 2: so I couldn't be more thankful and grateful. So thank
Speaker 2: you so much.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for taking the time while you were
Speaker 1: on your book tour. And I'm sending you first draft,
Speaker 1: second draft, Jay, what do you think about this? And
Speaker 1: you took the time to read it. And again, that
Speaker 1: is a part of showing up for people, which I've
Speaker 1: been talking about about this book of you know, my
Speaker 1: mom really her superpower was really showing up. And I
Speaker 1: think we're all forgetting. I think when we all like
Speaker 1: things on Instagram and all this, that that's showing up
Speaker 1: for someone. But that's you know, the icing of showing up,
Speaker 1: but the cake of showing up, of really taking the
Speaker 1: time out for somebody, whether you feel like it or not,
Speaker 1: whether you have time or not. But it's honoring somebody
Speaker 1: else's soul because not all of us are on the
Speaker 1: same soul journey, We're not all going through the same
Speaker 1: thing at the same time. And so I thank you
Speaker 1: for giving me the encouragement to keep writing and to
Speaker 1: finally get this book done. Absolutely, and it feels great.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm so glad that we're finally Yes, I
Speaker 2: know and Nicole, I want to take a moment before
Speaker 2: I dive in. I have so many questions I want
Speaker 2: to ask you today, and so many questions I'm excited
Speaker 2: to ask you. But I want to say a big
Speaker 2: thank you, because people show up in our lives in
Speaker 2: different ways, and towards the early stages of my career,
Speaker 2: I was wonderfully invited by Jennifer Aniston to a home
Speaker 2: to give a short presentation and you were in the
Speaker 2: audience that day. It was only a small group of people,
Speaker 2: and we instantly connected, and I remember your enthusiasm for
Speaker 2: my work and your energy for my work was so reassuring.
Speaker 2: You showed up for me without even knowing it, maybe,
Speaker 2: but it was so beautiful to have such a real interaction.
Speaker 2: You know, you can have people say that was wonderful,
Speaker 2: that was nice, but when you were sharing your thoughts
Speaker 2: and your feedback and the energy I felt from your
Speaker 2: words were so deeply encouraging when I probably needed them most.
Speaker 2: So I just want to thank you for showing up.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to hear that. I remember. I remember sitting
Speaker 1: where I remember exactly where I was sitting and then standing,
Speaker 1: and I remember affirming you the whole time, like nodding
Speaker 1: up and down because that was it was a small group,
Speaker 1: but it was an intimidating group of people to be
Speaker 1: in front of. And you were fantastic. And what I
Speaker 1: thought in that moment was, finally, somebody is really coming
Speaker 1: out and talking about the human spirit and the soul
Speaker 1: and our energy and who we really are as people,
Speaker 1: as just not what we do, but who we are.
Speaker 1: And I think that conversation has been missing in society.
Speaker 1: And I was so happy that it was you, and
Speaker 1: I thought it was perfect. I said, this is exactly
Speaker 1: what we need. And I was not surprised by everything
Speaker 1: that has happened for you. I said, of course has happened,
Speaker 1: you know. And even my husband ted when I told
Speaker 1: him I was coming on the podcast, he said, isn't
Speaker 1: it phenomenal? Think about it, how you started this journey
Speaker 1: with Jay before he even put out anything, and look
Speaker 1: at him. I mean, you're all over the world. You're
Speaker 1: helping heal people, You're helping souls repair, which I think
Speaker 1: a lot of us forget that our souls on our
Speaker 1: soul journey are going to need to go into repair sometimes,
Speaker 1: and none of us want to go into repair. But
Speaker 1: there's no way you're going to be on the earth
Speaker 1: and not have to go into repair. Sometimes, beautiful we
Speaker 1: just you know, we just do like and I say
Speaker 1: to people, how are you doing after this? I'm in repair.
Speaker 1: I'm in repair. I am allowing my friends to heal me,
Speaker 1: life to heal me, circumstances to heal me. But I
Speaker 1: am in repair. We have to make it okay to
Speaker 1: be able to say and own I'm in repair. I'm
Speaker 1: still going to show up, but I'm in repair.
Speaker 2: What a beautifully beautiful way of putting it, Nicole. I
Speaker 2: want to dive in, and I want to start by
Speaker 2: asking you, what is your earliest childed memory or your
Speaker 2: most memorable experience as a child that you think has
Speaker 2: defined who you are today.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a couple of things. One, my mom was
Speaker 1: very open to various scriptures around the world, so it
Speaker 1: didn't matter if it was a Hindu scripture or a
Speaker 1: Buddhist scripture, whatever it was Christian scripture. She loved the
Speaker 1: idea of understanding energy, your thoughts, your words, and everything
Speaker 1: how it helps create and shape your reality. And I
Speaker 1: remember specifically there was one time my godfather, Quincy, gave
Speaker 1: me a book, and it was called creative visualization. Now,
Speaker 1: granted I was older at this time, I wasn't a child,
Speaker 1: but I'm just going to this right now. Is that
Speaker 1: it was everything my mom had said, but I found
Speaker 1: it on paper and someone was saying no, And then
Speaker 1: I started doing it. I started saying, oh, Okay, if
Speaker 1: I really say this all the time, this is going
Speaker 1: to happen. But I did notice my energy shift and
Speaker 1: I did start to understand how the universe works. No,
Speaker 1: we can't control every single situation. We are in control
Speaker 1: of how we respond to it. But I think one
Speaker 1: of the earliest things that I learned, the most important
Speaker 1: life lesson, was that we are all here to share
Speaker 1: our blessings. I learned that firsthand as a young child
Speaker 1: who realized with all these people, yes, they might have
Speaker 1: been very successful and very famous, but the difference with
Speaker 1: the group that I had was that it was never
Speaker 1: about them. It was always about how are we going
Speaker 1: to move people forward. We have this door that has
Speaker 1: been opened for us, and our job is to make
Speaker 1: sure we keep the door open for other people. And
Speaker 1: the power that I got from that was there is
Speaker 1: such a power in helping people get to where they
Speaker 1: want to be help them on their soul evolution. And
Speaker 1: that has to do with being unselfish and aware and
Speaker 1: focused on progress, moving energy forward and not staying stagnant
Speaker 1: and not feeling that, oh if Jay gets this or
Speaker 1: so and so gets this, then I'm going to get nothing. No,
Speaker 1: it's there was. The lesson I learned was there is
Speaker 1: enough to go around for everybody, because everybody is on
Speaker 1: a different soul path and everybody has their own mission.
Speaker 1: No one can take it away from any of us.
Speaker 1: No one They can try to come in and steer
Speaker 1: you off course. But Jay Shetty is Jay Shetty in
Speaker 1: this lifetime. There is no other Jay Shetty. There is
Speaker 1: no other Nicole Amant. There's one of all of us.
Speaker 1: And we get to do what we choose to do,
Speaker 1: and who we want to be is even more important
Speaker 1: than what we do. But who we want to be
Speaker 1: on this planet? Who? What do we want people to say?
Speaker 1: Because believe me that Another thing I've learned now after
Speaker 1: my parents have gone is you know, everyone says, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't take anything with you. We know that technically,
Speaker 1: but when you really see it, I have everything. Everything's
Speaker 1: still there. My parents didn't take one possession with them.
Speaker 1: But the beauty is is that everybody they left their character,
Speaker 1: they left their stamp on humanity. People smile when they
Speaker 1: hear their names, people say thank you, People write me
Speaker 1: letters about how they change their lives. So all of
Speaker 1: this comes into the lesson that I learned is that
Speaker 1: everyone's significant and everyone's energy can help each other move
Speaker 1: to where we.
Speaker 2: Need to be.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those famous words again, which we've heard many times,
Speaker 2: but you've experienced this and you feel it. And I
Speaker 2: want to talk about some of the honorings that you
Speaker 2: received for your parents. But Maya Angelou who said that
Speaker 2: people will forget what you did, people will forget what
Speaker 2: you said, but people will never forget how you made
Speaker 2: them feel. And we say this, we repeat it, you
Speaker 2: see it on Instagram. But then you've probably experienced that
Speaker 2: very deeply, that people have not forgotten how your parents
Speaker 2: made them feel.
Speaker 1: That's exactly it, how they made them feel, and it's
Speaker 1: through the small actions. It's the note, it's the phone call,
Speaker 1: it's the text, it's the email. I'm checking in on you.
Speaker 1: I want you to know I love you, I've been
Speaker 1: thinking about you. These are all things that I've had
Speaker 1: to relearn of, oh, this is important. It's not just
Speaker 1: about me and my feelings and what I'm going through.
Speaker 1: People that i'm on my journey with that need check ins,
Speaker 1: that I need to say, Hey, I'm just thinking about you.
Speaker 1: I know you're you're traveling, and I know you you
Speaker 1: know things are going well in your life, but I
Speaker 1: just want you to know I'm thinking about you. Those
Speaker 1: little things mean everything. They mean everything because you're not alone,
Speaker 1: and you want to feel as if you are important
Speaker 1: to somebody. You want to feel that you're significant. You
Speaker 1: want to feel that you're seen. You know, you want
Speaker 1: to feel that someone. You want to That feeling of
Speaker 1: being loved changes everything.
Speaker 2: That's what we're yearning for, all of us. For everyone
Speaker 2: who doesn't know, I'd love to give them the background
Speaker 2: so we can really go deep into this conversation. You
Speaker 2: start this book by and I'm reading from the book.
Speaker 2: You receive this news love, You've got to get up,
Speaker 2: get dressed, and get deceit as your mom's been shot.
Speaker 2: I mean, every time I read that line as someone
Speaker 2: who didn't know your family, every time I read that line,
Speaker 2: and I just only could put myself in those shoes
Speaker 2: to even try to imagine what that would feel like
Speaker 2: to hear don't have You can't. You can't. It's something
Speaker 2: that you've either been through you haven't, and so you
Speaker 2: can't fully empathize, you can't fully understand. You can't no
Speaker 2: matter how hard you try. I cannot imagine how difficult
Speaker 2: that is. Walk us through that moment so that our
Speaker 2: audience can come with you on this journey, as we
Speaker 2: extrapolated after it.
Speaker 1: So, my husband had called me. It was early in
Speaker 1: the morning, round two thirty, and my phone had been
Speaker 1: ringing and I didn't hear it. My brother had been
Speaker 1: calling and I and then you know how your intuition
Speaker 1: gets you up. Something told me to get up, and
Speaker 1: I just happened to roll over. I looked at my phone.
Speaker 1: I see all these miscalls from Alex and thank god
Speaker 1: I was looking at my phone because my husband called
Speaker 1: again and Teddy said those words love. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: You have to get up. I said, what's going on?
Speaker 1: He goes, you have to get up. Your mother's been shot.
Speaker 1: You have to get to What do you mean she's
Speaker 1: been shot? What are you talking about? So then I'm thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: it must be eight o'clock at night. I was so
Speaker 1: from that moment, I went into a whole different spear almost.
Speaker 1: I just don't know where I was. And I said,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Where was she? And I
Speaker 1: was asking Teddy all these questions, and he said, Nicole,
Speaker 1: you have to get to the hospital. I don't have
Speaker 1: any answers. I just got this call. I'll meet you there.
Speaker 1: And thank god, he was in Los Angeles. He was
Speaker 1: on a work retreat, but he wasn't far Jay. I froze,
Speaker 1: my knees buckled a little bit, and then my heart
Speaker 1: rate just starts going, and I'm thinking, wait, what, And
Speaker 1: I remember, you know, our dogs sleep in the room,
Speaker 1: and I'm looking at these two sweet souls, and you know,
Speaker 1: dogs pick up on everything, so they immediately jump on me,
Speaker 1: kissing me, looking at me. And I just remember getting
Speaker 1: dressed quickly, getting dog food out, feeding the dogs, leaving
Speaker 1: the door open for them going out the back. My
Speaker 1: life changed. Whatever the outcome was at the hospital, that
Speaker 1: my life had changed forever. That if my mom survived this,
Speaker 1: which I was praying for, that she was eighty one
Speaker 1: when this happened, that okay, this is so traumatic that
Speaker 1: I don't know if she's going to be able to
Speaker 1: function emotionally after this or anything. So I'm driving and
Speaker 1: I'm on my way to the hospital, and you know,
Speaker 1: everything's energy to me, and I have all green lights,
Speaker 1: and the last one I remember, I was turning right
Speaker 1: on San Facente and it started flickering and I just
Speaker 1: started for myself. I just started talking. I said, Mom, Mom,
Speaker 1: if you can hear me, I don't know what's happened.
Speaker 1: I know you've been shot. I don't know by whom,
Speaker 1: I don't know where, I don't know anything. But I'm
Speaker 1: on my way and I don't know how hard you're
Speaker 1: fighting or what happened. But you don't have to come
Speaker 1: back if you can't, you know. I just all these
Speaker 1: thoughts just and I and I remember saying, I'll take
Speaker 1: I'll take care of dad, I'll take care of everything.
Speaker 1: I think I was saying that Jabe because she always
Speaker 1: did that for everybody else. And so there was just
Speaker 1: this new energy flowing through me. And I don't even
Speaker 1: know what I was talking about, but it was keeping
Speaker 1: me sane because I had to. You know, I didn't
Speaker 1: know where to park. I was in the wrong building.
Speaker 1: I was so discombobulated. I didn't know what was happening.
Speaker 1: And then you know, I got to the hospital and
Speaker 1: I was with my family and we waited, and unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I mean, God bless her. She was eighty one, you know,
Speaker 1: somebody had broken into her house and she happened to
Speaker 1: be up, so she they encountered each other completely, opposite souls, completely,
Speaker 1: but she made it to the hospital, which I love
Speaker 1: about my mother. Of course, she did shot in the back,
Speaker 1: you know, with a rifle, and she made eighty one
Speaker 1: and makes it to the hospital, and she just didn't
Speaker 1: make it through surgery. Everything that I had known for
Speaker 1: fifty three years was just I felt that it was
Speaker 1: just pulled out from under me. But then I became her.
Speaker 1: I decided, okay, I'm what would Jackie do? You know?
Speaker 1: And I started delegating. That's how I went into that mode.
Speaker 1: But the shock and the trauma and the stress and
Speaker 1: the fear, I mean, I have there were veins I
Speaker 1: didn't even know I had because they were all It's
Speaker 1: just it's amazing with the body how it responds to trauma.
Speaker 1: And then I just decided that day, okay, I have
Speaker 1: to decide who I want to be in this moment
Speaker 1: versus what I want to do, because I kept saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this, I have to do this,
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this. And then I looked at
Speaker 1: myself in the mirror when I got home from the hospital,
Speaker 1: and I said, no, no, no, Nicole, who do you want
Speaker 1: to be in this time, in this trial, Because now
Speaker 1: here's a trial, and this trial is here, who do
Speaker 1: you want to be? And I just looked at myself
Speaker 1: and I said, Okay, I want to be as courageous
Speaker 1: as possible. I want to be as peaceful as possible,
Speaker 1: and I want to be as helpful as possible. And
Speaker 1: I just went downstairs as that woman tended to my
Speaker 1: father to you know, the police officers are at the house,
Speaker 1: detectives areout the house. I I it was like out
Speaker 1: of like a CSI, you know TV show. I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my goodness. You know how we all say one
Speaker 1: day at a time. I tried that. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is not one day at a time, this is
Speaker 1: one minute at a time. This is okay, Nicole, every
Speaker 1: five minutes, you're going to check in on yourself. Let's
Speaker 1: just And so I knew I can get through one
Speaker 1: minute at a time or five minutes at a time.
Speaker 1: But when I said tomorrow, I'll be better, my whole
Speaker 1: body was like, no, no, no, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: We can't live till tomorrow. Wow that's how heavy the
Speaker 1: pain was. Wow, it was too much shock. It was
Speaker 1: an energy that I had never experienced before, because it
Speaker 1: was such a cruel energy on such a deep level
Speaker 1: and a violent energy that I had never experienced it.
Speaker 1: So I found myself in new territory.
Speaker 2: I've never heard it put that well in terms of
Speaker 2: how heavy it can be. And this idea that we
Speaker 2: say one day at a time, I really hope that
Speaker 2: anyone and everyone who's listening right now, who is going
Speaker 2: through their own version, their own path of this sort
Speaker 2: of pain, is able to simplify it to one minute
Speaker 2: at a time, one moment at a time. So I
Speaker 2: already deeply appreciate that. How do you think you had
Speaker 2: this ability? And I'm I'm assuming or guessing that it
Speaker 2: also came from your mom that you could go upstairs
Speaker 2: and say, I'm going to be courageous, I want to
Speaker 2: be peaceful, I want to be helpful. Like those three
Speaker 2: words are not accidental. They are very intentional powerful special
Speaker 2: words courageous, peaceful, and helpful. How did you find that
Speaker 2: clarity so quickly which could have taken months or even years.
Speaker 1: Thank god it was my mom. She My mom was
Speaker 1: a big believer in vibration, and she'd always used to say,
Speaker 1: you know, your your soul emits energy, and you you
Speaker 1: have to think of yourself as a radio tower, and
Speaker 1: you have to think of yourself as a you know,
Speaker 1: as a station on the channel on the TV, because
Speaker 1: you know, as long as you change the channels, you'll
Speaker 1: get different vibrations. We all see that. So what are
Speaker 1: you tuning into? She'd always say to me, what are
Speaker 1: you tuning into? In your mind? What are you tuning into?
Speaker 1: But she thought those three words are from her. She
Speaker 1: always wanted to be courageous and helpful and kind, and
Speaker 1: those were always her intentions of how she was going
Speaker 1: to show up in the world. And it's interesting because
Speaker 1: she used to say to me, courage isn't not being afraid,
Speaker 1: it's being afraid. And you do it anyway, You do
Speaker 1: it anyway. You do the thing you're afraid of while
Speaker 1: you're afraid, and that's when you're courageous. And it's so true.
Speaker 1: So I just decided, Okay, I have no idea what's happening,
Speaker 1: and I'm very afraid, but I'm not going to turn
Speaker 1: my back to it. I'm going to go through it.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to have necessarily get through this. I
Speaker 1: never put that pressure. But I am going to walk
Speaker 1: through this season. I am going to walk through this
Speaker 1: challenge with as much grace as possible.
Speaker 2: To the best of your ability. And thank you so
Speaker 2: much for recounting that for our audience, And of course,
Speaker 2: as I've said to everyone, I highly recommend you get
Speaker 2: this book because not only is it, of course in
Speaker 2: a cold story, I feel what Nicole does exceptionally well
Speaker 2: is through and you can tell already from the way
Speaker 2: she speaks. And for those of you are listening and watching, Nicole,
Speaker 2: you have this way of bringing us on this journey
Speaker 2: with you, but also giving us these steps and insights
Speaker 2: along the way of how to honor people that we love,
Speaker 2: how to learn from them, how to just what you
Speaker 2: just said. Now, I think this idea of becoming and
Speaker 2: being the people we lose is the most beautiful way
Speaker 2: for them to continue to live with us and through
Speaker 2: us and live on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I listened to. Part of another healing step for
Speaker 1: me was listening to her favorite music every day. I thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: what did mom love? What music did she love? What
Speaker 1: flowers did she love? Anything that she loved? I put
Speaker 1: around me if I could so, the orchids that she loved,
Speaker 1: the certain color that she loved. I ordered them and
Speaker 1: made sure I looked at them every day because when
Speaker 1: I looked at them, it reminded me of her, and
Speaker 1: I smiled, and it helped heal my heart, you know.
Speaker 1: And listening to the music, because music was so healing
Speaker 1: and it is so healing, and so I listened to
Speaker 1: all her you know. She loved Johnny Mathis, and she
Speaker 1: loved the Commodores and the Beeges, and she loved really
Speaker 1: eat like Gordon Lightfoot. She loved really easy kind music,
Speaker 1: and it did help me become more of her. It
Speaker 1: was really helpful. And a lot of rituals, you know.
Speaker 1: She loved taking baths. My mom loved that. And my
Speaker 1: mom was always get the magnesium, get the salt, and
Speaker 1: get whatever. It doesn't have to be fancy, get in
Speaker 1: the water. You know. She was such a pisies and
Speaker 1: I'm born on her birthday, so she was always you know,
Speaker 1: take a bath, soak it out, you know, talking, and
Speaker 1: I I started doing those things. So at night, I
Speaker 1: would take a bath, and I started to talk to
Speaker 1: her as if she was there, as if I could
Speaker 1: hear her, even if I couldn't. I didn't need to
Speaker 1: hear anything. And it wasn't even about so much feeling anything,
Speaker 1: but I needed to express myself. And it was very
Speaker 1: healing for me to act as if she was listening
Speaker 1: and that she could hear me. Whether she could or not,
Speaker 1: it was the act of doing it for myself, which
Speaker 1: was very healing.
Speaker 2: That's so reassuring to hear. I was speaking to a
Speaker 2: friend the other day about their loss and they lost
Speaker 2: a parent very recently, and I recommended your book because
Speaker 2: I really really do believe that it's my go to
Speaker 2: recommendation when people have this experience. And they were talking
Speaker 2: to me, they said, you know, if my mom was
Speaker 2: here right now, she'd laugh at this and she'd do this,
Speaker 2: and I was like, that's it. I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's wonderful hearing from you. I was like that,
Speaker 2: like you know how your mom respond to what you
Speaker 2: would say, Like you know that when you love someone
Speaker 2: so deeply, and so that doesn't have to disappear. It
Speaker 2: doesn't have to stop.
Speaker 1: No, it does not. That's a really good point. It
Speaker 1: does not have to stop. It changes form, the energy
Speaker 1: changes form, but the energy is there. You know, we're
Speaker 1: spirits in the material world, So for spirits in the
Speaker 1: material world, and everything is everlasting and the soul never dies,
Speaker 1: and we all know that. If you believe that, then yeah,
Speaker 1: she's in a different form, but she's still around and
Speaker 1: her energy is with me. I feel her now stronger
Speaker 1: than I ever did before. I really do. I really
Speaker 1: feel her presence much stronger, and even writing the book,
Speaker 1: because you know, she wanted to be a book editor,
Speaker 1: and there were certain drafts I was doing and I
Speaker 1: just put the pen down there. And there was one
Speaker 1: night and I had a dream and it was I
Speaker 1: just saw her red nails typing on the typewriter. And
Speaker 1: I had asked myself before I went to sleep, I
Speaker 1: wonder if I should change that paragraph, rewrite it and
Speaker 1: move it up. And I took it as a sign,
Speaker 1: which I did, and I did move the paragraph. But
Speaker 1: as soon as I saw her nails, her fingernails on
Speaker 1: the keypad. But thank you, Mom, I'm going to move that.
Speaker 1: Thank you for editing. You're still editing in my life.
Speaker 1: You are still working, and it's just a different form
Speaker 1: of energy. And my girlfriend wrote me a beautiful letter
Speaker 1: and she said, remember, the best way to honor anyone
Speaker 1: you've loved, but especially your parents, is to live a full,
Speaker 1: significant life. You owe them a life that that's the
Speaker 1: only thing you owe them is to live, because that
Speaker 1: is the best way to honor them. Is if they've
Speaker 1: taught you great things and given you great lessons and
Speaker 1: given you tools, go on and carry the baton. And
Speaker 1: even for the ones who don't. Let's say you don't
Speaker 1: have parents that were good to you. Because that happens,
Speaker 1: and you don't have parents that show up for you,
Speaker 1: you can choose to be different than they were and
Speaker 1: show up as a completely different type of human being
Speaker 1: in the world. I've seen it, you've seen it. I've
Speaker 1: heard about I've heard horrific stories about abuse and trauma
Speaker 1: and neglect, and these young people have chosen to be
Speaker 1: very different from what they receive from their parents. And
Speaker 1: I have such respect for that, because that's hard. It's
Speaker 1: hard to carry on a memory if your memories are
Speaker 1: terrible and when that happens, then your job now is
Speaker 1: to I have to create new memories.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, people by their actions are either showing us
Speaker 2: how to live or how not to.
Speaker 1: Live, or how not to live.
Speaker 2: And oh yeah, I can definitely identify with that. With
Speaker 2: the home I grew up in, I was just taking
Speaker 2: notes to my whole life of how not to be
Speaker 2: a dad, to be a husband, how not to be
Speaker 2: a person in the workplace, how not to be a
Speaker 2: family member.
Speaker 1: Especially in the workplace. I mean, yeah, I had people
Speaker 1: around me all the time where I would say, okay,
Speaker 1: so when I when I'm older and I'm working and
Speaker 1: i have this position, I'm definitely not going to be
Speaker 1: like that. And then there were certain people where I'd
Speaker 1: take notes and I'd say, I want to be just
Speaker 1: like Carol. She's great, she's so helpful, she's so patient's
Speaker 1: you know, and then serving, I mean I was a
Speaker 1: waitress for a long time. My parents had me work,
Speaker 1: you know, since I was ten and thirteen, and just
Speaker 1: on and on and on. I sold shoes, I worked
Speaker 1: at a dry cleaner, I did My mom would say,
Speaker 1: I'm throwing you into these experiences because to your point,
Speaker 1: people will show you who they are, and you can
Speaker 1: learn how you want to be. But the only way
Speaker 1: you do that is when you're in interaction with others,
Speaker 1: and gosh, especially serving people. You see, I saw the
Speaker 1: best of people, and I saw the worst of people.
Speaker 1: I was either completely just non existent, or somebody took
Speaker 1: the time to be really kind and smile at me
Speaker 1: and ask me how I was. And so you become
Speaker 1: very sensitive to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And Tony and Sarah. You know my stepkids with Ted,
Speaker 1: they they're the same. Sarah. I threw her into waitressing
Speaker 1: and she said, my gosh, some people don't even see me.
Speaker 1: I'm nobody to them. And I said, now you know,
Speaker 1: And now she's very sensitive as a young adult when
Speaker 1: we go to restaurants. Did you make sure you tip this?
Speaker 1: Did you make sure she looks at the waitress and
Speaker 1: waiters all the time? She looks at every server. How
Speaker 1: are you? How was your day? How are you? I mean,
Speaker 1: she's so engaged, but to your point, because she's experienced
Speaker 1: the opposite, and she took notes. I don't want to
Speaker 1: be like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so beautiful. I was reminded as you were talking
Speaker 2: about you said this beautiful statement of you know, we're
Speaker 2: spirits in the material world having this experience, and therefore
Speaker 2: energy lives on and there's this beautiful mess that you receive.
Speaker 2: You say, I'm reading from your book if you don't mind,
Speaker 2: if that's okay, So this is page fifty three for
Speaker 2: those who are reading along with us and think you'll
Speaker 2: be happy. And you say, a few days after my
Speaker 2: mother died, Pharrell Williams called. He's like a brother to me,
Speaker 2: he's family, and he says, we're going to celebrate your mom.
Speaker 2: He said, we're going to celebrate her legacy. She's a
Speaker 2: big deal and we're not going to let anyone forget her.
Speaker 2: She created a life worth talking about. Do you realize
Speaker 2: that hundreds of thousands of babies were born around the
Speaker 2: world the day she passed over. There are one hundred
Speaker 2: and forty million a year all around the world. Life
Speaker 2: is always continuing, Nicole, and you must continue her life
Speaker 2: by living yours to the fullest. And he concluded, God
Speaker 2: is still the greatest. And you said that for our
Speaker 2: says this all the time, through good or bad times,
Speaker 2: and he's right, God is still the greatest. What I
Speaker 2: find really unique about your journey, Nicole, as well, is
Speaker 2: that you are able to keep and strengthen your faith
Speaker 2: in your own spirituality in the way you practice it
Speaker 2: at a time when it's very natural. And I would
Speaker 2: never judge anyone if it would actually veer their way.
Speaker 1: Right and just say no, no, exactly, Yeah, what do
Speaker 1: you mean? Yeah, I've been so good and I've had
Speaker 1: so much faith, and how can this happen?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And as I say in the book, it's like why
Speaker 1: not us? It tragedies and trials and everything it happens to,
Speaker 1: you know, as it says in scripture, it rains on
Speaker 1: the just, and it rains on the unjust. It's everyone
Speaker 1: kind of gets hammered. But it goes to the power
Speaker 1: of choice. For me, and the reason that I grew
Speaker 1: stronger in my faith as opposed to leaving it is
Speaker 1: because I really do believe that the universe has kind
Speaker 1: of laid it all out. Life has laid it out
Speaker 1: various scripture, you know, your Buddhist script everything is laid
Speaker 1: it out, which says here it is, you're on this earth,
Speaker 1: and it kind of here, here's how you play this game.
Speaker 1: But these things were not gonna lie. These things will
Speaker 1: show up. But the power of free will, which my
Speaker 1: mom always reminded me about of is that. You know, listen,
Speaker 1: we as human beings do have free will. We have
Speaker 1: the freedom to choose how we're going to live, choose
Speaker 1: how we're going to think, as opposed to any other animal,
Speaker 1: you know, they don't have the power of imagination and choice.
Speaker 1: We do. So to blame the creator for the choices
Speaker 1: that people make is not something that I wanted to
Speaker 1: subscribe to. And I was like, I'm not even going there.
Speaker 1: People make choices all the time. I see it every day.
Speaker 1: We all do. People who've had the worst childhoods make
Speaker 1: great choices, have great lives. I've seen people who I
Speaker 1: grew up with in a very affluent neighborhood make the
Speaker 1: worst choices and had nothing to do with their environment.
Speaker 1: It was their choice. So I wanted to stay my faith.
Speaker 1: For me really was believing in something that is so
Speaker 1: much bigger and greater than me that you know swing.
Speaker 1: You know, the stars come out at night, I'm not
Speaker 1: in control of that. The earth is spinning, that's not
Speaker 1: my power. You know, the birds wake up every morning,
Speaker 1: the sun is up, the sun goes down. That's a
Speaker 1: power that is Yes, I'm a part of that and
Speaker 1: I'm connected to it, but I did I'm not the creator,
Speaker 1: and so I just decided to lean in more with
Speaker 1: that power and just say, Okay, I accept this. I
Speaker 1: don't understand it. I may never understand it, but I
Speaker 1: still do love life, and I still do believe in
Speaker 1: life and the goodness of people and the goodness of life.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to get bitter. That was my
Speaker 1: mate ja. I was so afraid of becoming a bitter person.
Speaker 1: And I could feel the root. I could feel, I
Speaker 1: could feel it starting, and I was like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I got to get rid of this. I And that's
Speaker 1: where I just went into the forgiveness of not condoning
Speaker 1: the behavior, not saying oh, it's okay that this happened,
Speaker 1: and making an excuse forgiveness for me, was I am
Speaker 1: casting this burden or these burdens of anger and shame
Speaker 1: and doubt and disappointment and frustration and fury, because I
Speaker 1: was furious, and I thought, but if I hold on
Speaker 1: to these feelings, I'm going to sink myself. And I'm
Speaker 1: not giving anyone the power to take me out.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. So I'm going to stand in
Speaker 1: my faith. I'm going to believe in what I believe in,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to believe in life, and I am
Speaker 1: going to I choose to believe that things will get better.
Speaker 1: I don't know when, and I don't know how. I
Speaker 1: didn't care, but I knew that they would, and I believe.
Speaker 1: And I'm a big believer in tomorrow. I love tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I do, I really do. I'm always saying okay, because
Speaker 1: if I don't get it rid, I'm like, oh, there's
Speaker 1: always tomorrow, and it keeps me hopeful. Tomorrow keeps me hopeful.
Speaker 1: I don't try to out of the present, but I
Speaker 1: do look forward. You know. My mom always just to
Speaker 1: say you have to have something to look forward to,
Speaker 1: because otherwise you if you don't train your mind to
Speaker 1: And I'd say, well, I have nothing coming up that
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to. And she used to say, make
Speaker 1: it up, make it up. Pretend you have some partner,
Speaker 1: Pretend you have some whatever it is, that something that's
Speaker 1: going to make your heart smile, because we can all
Speaker 1: fall into despair very quickly.
Speaker 2: I love that. That just brought a massive smile to
Speaker 2: my It's so beautiful. How how someone's energy and spurke
Speaker 2: can be so big that it can, you know, truly
Speaker 2: live on and and truly truly be fought and shared.
Speaker 2: It's Yeah, there's this beautiful line that you share from
Speaker 2: your friend Penny who says, grief is the receipt from
Speaker 2: the universe showing that you loved someone or something and
Speaker 2: loved them very deeply.
Speaker 1: It's not the best. When she reminded me of that,
Speaker 1: I said, okay, wait, say it again. I have to
Speaker 1: write this down. Say it again. That is so good.
Speaker 1: But she said, baby, that's that's what it is. It's
Speaker 1: a receipt. And it could be a mother, a father,
Speaker 1: a sister, a brother, a dog, cat, whatever, something that
Speaker 1: you love that is no longer there, that has changed form.
Speaker 1: Even if it's the most peaceful transition, the grief is
Speaker 1: proof that you loved. You know, the grief is most
Speaker 1: of the time, and there's a lot of brief also
Speaker 1: where there's regrets and all that. I understand that and
Speaker 1: I respect all forms of grief, but it is it's
Speaker 1: a receipt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a receipt that you loved and you were loved
Speaker 2: and I was loved deeply deeply. This one line in
Speaker 2: the book. You really I just felt it was perspective
Speaker 2: shifting in a way that oh, I just I just
Speaker 2: feel like that statement, just like you know, you just
Speaker 2: embodied and captured everything. And you said that even though
Speaker 2: your mother's death was shocking, her life was beautiful. So
Speaker 2: imagine even though the end was so terrible, her life
Speaker 2: was beautiful. And that's what you're celebrating. That's what you're
Speaker 2: putting emphasis and focus and your light on. And I
Speaker 2: find that's very difficult because when we lose someone, it's
Speaker 2: so easy and natural again and normal. And that's when
Speaker 2: it's normal for us to obsess over how we lost
Speaker 2: someone and how we left them, which is the shortest
Speaker 2: amount of time we actually experienced them most mostly, but
Speaker 2: we have all of this time. But the brain and
Speaker 2: our memory and our mind is so good at just
Speaker 2: fixating on the end.
Speaker 1: The end, and not the life. Yeah was yeah, and
Speaker 1: not the life. And I had to get to the end.
Speaker 1: So I used to say, but, but, but, and then
Speaker 1: I realized, wait, I can have both. This is shocking
Speaker 1: and terrible and hurtful, and I'm going to celebrate her
Speaker 1: life and I'm going to think of the good times
Speaker 1: and I'm going to try and think of all the
Speaker 1: great memories that will bring a smile to my face.
Speaker 1: So it was no longer a butt. And once I
Speaker 1: changed but to and I didn't have to choose which one.
Speaker 1: I was going to do both and move through life
Speaker 1: with the shock and the trauma and the stress and
Speaker 1: the beauty of her life, the beauty of how she lived,
Speaker 1: the energy of what she gave. So I was I
Speaker 1: was moving with all energies and it was only until
Speaker 1: I shifted, because I was definitely in that. But this happened,
Speaker 1: So I don't know how I could ever smile again.
Speaker 1: But this happened, and it was so tragic. And then
Speaker 1: as soon as I said, this happened and it's tragic,
Speaker 1: and I'm going to think positively, I'm going to think constructively.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: My dad always used to say to me, girl, keep
Speaker 1: your mind right, keep your mind right, crucify your mind
Speaker 1: every day. You got to keep your mind right. And
Speaker 1: so that really helped me, you know. And that my
Speaker 1: friend TD Jake's had called me and he said, I
Speaker 1: understand you're angry. Of course, it's normal to be angry
Speaker 1: and all the things you're feeling, but I have a
Speaker 1: question for you, do you want your focus to be
Speaker 1: on her last five minutes or are you going to
Speaker 1: focus on the eighty one years that she lived? And
Speaker 1: it's your choice, and you have to choose every day
Speaker 1: which one are you going to focus on? You're going
Speaker 1: to give him five minutes, the five minutes and the trauma,
Speaker 1: or are you going to focus on the eighty one years?
Speaker 1: And I remember it through all my tears on eighty
Speaker 1: one years, eighty one years, and it was but it
Speaker 1: was beautiful because he helped me shift and I had to
Speaker 1: go to that every day. It wasn't like he'd said
Speaker 1: it one day and then, but every day and every
Speaker 1: time it was very challenging for me, Jay, and every
Speaker 1: time I did want to quit. And there were days
Speaker 1: where I didn't stop all the time. But you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you have to push pause in life. And there
Speaker 1: were days where I would lay in the bed and
Speaker 1: just lay there and be still and think or not
Speaker 1: think and just lay there and I but I still
Speaker 1: decided to focus on her eighty one years and to
Speaker 1: focus on what I loved about her, and to focus
Speaker 1: on her contributions to life and society and other people
Speaker 1: and how she made people feel so powerful.
Speaker 2: That shift for me was you know, I was like that,
Speaker 2: I can That's something I'd like to remind myself every
Speaker 2: day with the people that I've lost. Like that, that
Speaker 2: really felt like a real gift, that that gem of
Speaker 2: advice and insight. Think you you know again, another natural
Speaker 2: thing is, especially in a circumstance like this, is to
Speaker 2: focus on how to get justice on you know, how
Speaker 2: to make sure that the perpetrator and the person gets
Speaker 2: what they deserve. And I found and like the and
Speaker 2: that that again is a very normal reaction. It makes sense.
Speaker 2: How did you navigate that at the same time as
Speaker 2: navigating grief, like, walk me through that, because sometimes we
Speaker 2: lose people naturally. This wasn't that. This was rare, So
Speaker 2: it's an additional kind of energy direction because here you
Speaker 2: are dealing with loss, but then you're also dealing with
Speaker 2: an individual who's you know, acted so recklessly.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I thought, oh my god, and my father
Speaker 1: it broke my heart one day because he said, oh boy,
Speaker 1: because they hadn't caught him yet, and he said, and
Speaker 1: then he was curious about that obviously, and like wondering,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this person is still around. And my
Speaker 1: dad immediately went to other people. He wasn't just focused
Speaker 1: on my mom. He immediately went to Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I hope this person is not hurting somebody else, because
Speaker 1: he's obviously shown he can do this. He does this.
Speaker 1: But I still I had to present on behalf of
Speaker 1: my mom and the family to the judge. You know
Speaker 1: what my intention was, and it really was, listen, you know,
Speaker 1: whatever the divine justice is going to be in this.
Speaker 1: I'm not the divine justice here, but I will say
Speaker 1: that my intention was, I want to make sure that
Speaker 1: this doesn't happen to another family. I don't want this
Speaker 1: to happen to anyone else. I don't want other people
Speaker 1: to feel that. So if I had any little way
Speaker 1: of just stating that and making a difference, that gave
Speaker 1: me something to live for. Actually, can I try in
Speaker 1: my little square? Can I hopefully stop this from happening
Speaker 1: to other people? And thank God that that he's not
Speaker 1: on the streets, you know, because there's a lot of
Speaker 1: reckless people on the streets and a lot of violence
Speaker 1: today in various different forms, and it's really heavy, and
Speaker 1: it's so unnecessary, and it's cruel and unkind, and but
Speaker 1: I like it. It's reckless.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I mean, it's horrific.
Speaker 1: It's horrific.
Speaker 2: It's reckless.
Speaker 1: But it happens to so many people in so many
Speaker 1: different ways, and I don't think people realize, you know,
Speaker 1: what we see the science of what it does to
Speaker 1: families when there's a tragedy. It could be a child
Speaker 1: drowning or a car accident or anything, and families sometimes
Speaker 1: fall apart. And I understand why. And Ted and I
Speaker 1: had to look at each other. And I sat with
Speaker 1: my dad and I said, listen, you're going to come
Speaker 1: live with me. I'm never leaving you. We're going to
Speaker 1: be Lockstep. You're gonna be my road dog wherever I go.
Speaker 1: You're in the car with me, whatever my life is.
Speaker 1: We're just going to merge. But I had to sit
Speaker 1: with Ted and I had to say to him. We
Speaker 1: had to look at each other in the eyes. I said, listen,
Speaker 1: this is horrible, and both of us are grieving in
Speaker 1: very different ways, but we have to make a decision
Speaker 1: and look at each other in the eyes right now
Speaker 1: and make a commitment to each other that we're going
Speaker 1: to walk through this and no matter how hard this gets,
Speaker 1: and no matter if any each of us want to bail,
Speaker 1: i'd understand, but we're not going to. We're going to
Speaker 1: stick this out. I've got your back, You've got my back.
Speaker 1: We're going to be here take care of my father.
Speaker 1: And my intention was we're going to give him a
Speaker 1: space where he feels loved and honored and safe and scene.
Speaker 1: And if we can do that, then we've done our job.
Speaker 1: But we have to have a commitment because the pain
Speaker 1: is so deep, Jay, and I see it now. I
Speaker 1: used to read articles like why would they they had
Speaker 1: a baby, and I understand this strategy, but why would
Speaker 1: they divorce them that? Why would they? Oh? I get
Speaker 1: it until you go through it, I get it because
Speaker 1: the shock is so insane. It's your brain isn't the same,
Speaker 1: Your heart's not the same, your brain's not the same.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's another reminder to us all where it's like,
Speaker 2: if we haven't been through a experience, how not to judge,
Speaker 2: how to take a step back, how to be compassionate.
Speaker 2: But when I hear you being able to take a
Speaker 2: step back to the point of view of saying I
Speaker 2: want to look at this from the point of view
Speaker 2: of how this will not happen to someone else. That's
Speaker 2: like model behavior. I mean that is that is such
Speaker 2: an elevated spiritual space to come from that you're not going.
Speaker 2: I think this person deserves this because of what happened
Speaker 2: to this, which would be fair, Like that would be
Speaker 2: totally fair. There'd be nothing wrong if you fell that way.
Speaker 2: But the fact that you could come from a place
Speaker 2: to say, actually, I just want to make sure it
Speaker 2: doesn't happen to anyone else again. And I believe actually
Speaker 2: after the unfortunate event at your home, like he went
Speaker 2: off and did more that same day, right after, you
Speaker 2: were very right to actually, yeah, have that feeling.
Speaker 1: Yes, that news was crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so one of my friends, Amy, who's in the book,
Speaker 1: she's the one who went to the house and got
Speaker 1: my mom's things for me and got the Bible and
Speaker 1: found the Christmas card, all these things. Amy shows up
Speaker 1: at the house that afternoon and she says, I am
Speaker 1: so sorry, I'm late. I heard about your mom this morning.
Speaker 1: But we were woken up last night by helicopters and sirens.
Speaker 1: Right next door to my house. There was a home
Speaker 1: invasion and it was craziness, and the guy shot himself
Speaker 1: and there was madness and blah blah blah, and we
Speaker 1: were all out in the streets. She's going on and
Speaker 1: I said, really, She goes, can you believe in the
Speaker 1: same night it happened to your mom? She comes over
Speaker 1: twenty four hours later. Why does a ghost eyes wide open?
Speaker 1: And I said, what's going on? She said, uh, remember
Speaker 1: I told you that there was a home invasion next
Speaker 1: door to me And I said yes. She said that
Speaker 1: was the same person. That was the same person that
Speaker 1: left your mom and showed up right next door to
Speaker 1: a best friend. Just that out of all places, LA
Speaker 1: is pretty big. Out of all things, but the energy
Speaker 1: and the connection and interesting enough, I had this huge
Speaker 1: crystal that I bought from myself and I couldn't figure
Speaker 1: out the right place to put it. And it happened
Speaker 1: to be Amy's birthday coming up, and I was on
Speaker 1: the phone with my mom. This was months before she died,
Speaker 1: maybe six months before she died, and I said, I
Speaker 1: don't know what to do with this crystal, so gorgeous,
Speaker 1: but I don't have the right room. And Ted's like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing with that big thing? And she said, well,
Speaker 1: didn't you say you didn't know what to get Amy
Speaker 1: for her? They why don't you give that to Amy?
Speaker 1: I said, oh, I absolutely will, And of course she
Speaker 1: had put it right in her backyard on the fence
Speaker 1: line of where all this Amy just fell, my mom everywhere.
Speaker 1: It's just but again of how we're all connected, and
Speaker 1: you don't even realize that out of all places. But yeah,
Speaker 1: he did this as someone else, and that family was traumatized.
Speaker 1: There was a young girl in the house, So I
Speaker 1: think that also helped me knowing that story, knowing that
Speaker 1: there was a teenage girl in the house and she
Speaker 1: was petrified and all this and thank god nothing happened
Speaker 1: to them, but that it is about other people too,
Speaker 1: that this didn't just happen to us. That's why I
Speaker 1: went to the place of Okay, there's so much trauma here.
Speaker 1: My prayer is that it doesn't go any further.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm listening to you, and obviously I read
Speaker 2: the book and I'm hearing just it's almost like your mind.
Speaker 2: You allowed your mind to naturally go to all of
Speaker 2: the the butts, but then you've found like that tiny
Speaker 2: crack of light and that breakthrough, and you've kind of
Speaker 2: found your way there. And for everyone who's listening, I
Speaker 2: can see Nicole nodding, and it's like that that feeling
Speaker 2: that we often have is like the amount of light
Speaker 2: that shining through is so small, like the teeny right,
Speaker 2: like the tiniest yeah liad of oh yeah, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: not because it just looks dark. And you know, one
Speaker 2: of the biggest ones that I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people again naturally feel, are why me, I could have
Speaker 2: done this, I should have been there like that can
Speaker 2: just you know, I've heard that like destroy people inside.
Speaker 1: It's just going to use that word. It will destroy you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it will destroy you. And I felt it, you could
Speaker 1: feel the destruction in What did you do with that emotion?
Speaker 1: I immediately said, you know, why not me? First? I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, we're human, We're in a human experience,
Speaker 1: and bad things happen around the world to really good
Speaker 1: people all the time. Bad things happen to bad it
Speaker 1: it's everybody, right, you know, It's funny. My mom used
Speaker 1: to she loved the theater, she loved stories, she loved
Speaker 1: television and song. Also, because her point was each of
Speaker 1: these mediums, most of them, especially film, intelligence is showing
Speaker 1: you the hero's journey. You are the hero of your story,
Speaker 1: but you don't go to the movie because you know
Speaker 1: the ending. We all go and we pretty much know
Speaker 1: the ending and the trailer, but we go because we
Speaker 1: want to see the middle, which is the challenge, which
Speaker 1: is the butt, which is what do I do? Am
Speaker 1: I going to survive? The decision, the turning point, the pivot.
Speaker 1: So the pivot for me was everything because I thought, right,
Speaker 1: Mom told me this, like things happen. People make decisions
Speaker 1: every day. You know, you've got laws on the books now,
Speaker 1: you know mothers against drunk driving, all these things. But
Speaker 1: that happened. Those good things came from a very tragic place.
Speaker 1: And it is looking for the light at the end
Speaker 1: of the tunnel. It's really grasping for that light, looking
Speaker 1: even if it's I was looking around like it's got
Speaker 1: to be there somewhere. And some days I didn't see
Speaker 1: any light. I have to be honest. There were some
Speaker 1: days there was no light. I felt it, but I
Speaker 1: didn't see it. But there were some days where I
Speaker 1: just was sitting in darkness, and sitting I felt like
Speaker 1: I was sitting in mud and just or quicksand and
Speaker 1: it just was heavy. And those were the days that
Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, I've got to now purposely look for
Speaker 1: a little light. And I would go outside and I'd
Speaker 1: sit in my yard and I would stare at the flower.
Speaker 1: I would sit in nature and I would look at
Speaker 1: the trees, and I would watch the birds, and I
Speaker 1: would watch life. I would watch the sunsets every day.
Speaker 1: I never looked at him every day. I took advantage.
Speaker 1: I took that for granted. Oh there's a sunset, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple times a year. Oh, every day since my mom,
Speaker 1: I would watch the sun go down. I would make
Speaker 1: sure to watch that sun go down because it reminded
Speaker 1: you there is a cycle of life, and the Sun's
Speaker 1: going to rise again. And if I knew the sun
Speaker 1: was going to rise again, then I knew I was
Speaker 1: going to rise again.
Speaker 2: You know, the more disconnected we've be come from Nate
Speaker 2: to the harder it is to acknowledge the natural transitions
Speaker 2: and the natural seasons, the juvenations, the seasons, the the
Speaker 2: ability for things to wither and then yeah.
Speaker 1: And then come back, come back. And my mom died,
Speaker 1: you know, in the it was winter. It was December first,
Speaker 1: and I remember I just trimmed back everything and pruned everything,
Speaker 1: and everything was barren and then I remember in April
Speaker 1: everything that I had cut back, everything was reblooming, showing
Speaker 1: up again, gorgeous, and it had pushed through that. It
Speaker 1: was that harvest time. You know, there's seed time and
Speaker 1: there's harvest, and there's this growing time. And I understood
Speaker 1: growing pains. That's what I was like, Oh, this is
Speaker 1: what growing pain. Oh this is what this means. Okay.
Speaker 1: But nature helped because the seasons helped me because, like
Speaker 1: I said, it was rainy and it was dark when
Speaker 1: she passed, and then a few months later the sun
Speaker 1: was coming out, the the weather changed, the flowers were out,
Speaker 1: the hummingbirds were around, and it was a reminder of
Speaker 1: this too, Shell pat like, things will continue and you
Speaker 1: have to go on with life.
Speaker 2: And of course while you were writing this book, I
Speaker 2: believe it was when it went to print. You also
Speaker 2: lost to your father at that time, and he knew
Speaker 2: you were writing the book.
Speaker 1: Yad was he Yes, he was into it. He was great.
Speaker 1: He was pushing me to write because he knew it
Speaker 1: would be cathartic for me. And I said, Daddy, I've
Speaker 1: been writing this book, but mommy's died, so I'm going
Speaker 1: to put this away. He goes no, no, no, I
Speaker 1: want you to write about Jackie. I want you to
Speaker 1: write about life. I want you to write Nicole. And
Speaker 1: he was so I was so happy to have his
Speaker 1: presence in my home because yes, I was taking care
Speaker 1: of him, but he was really taking care of me too.
Speaker 1: And Ted, like you would just acknowledge he had just
Speaker 1: lost his father, so to have a patriarch back in
Speaker 1: the house when Ted is grieving the loss of his
Speaker 1: own father, to have my father's energy was great. And
Speaker 1: my dad was a real doer. I mean he was
Speaker 1: always moving and shaking and getting things done. He never
Speaker 1: really sat down, never really relaxed. And he said to me,
Speaker 1: you have things to say in this book, and you'll
Speaker 1: help people, hopefully, you know. And what I loved, He's like,
Speaker 1: this book is about being an offering. It's not about
Speaker 1: business right now. This is an offering, Nicole, write your book,
Speaker 1: Finish your book. Your mother would want you to finish
Speaker 1: the book. And I said, I know, but I don't
Speaker 1: know how to pivot this. Hecause, you'll figure it out.
Speaker 1: You could throw Jackie in there. But he did read it,
Speaker 1: and he read five chapters for sure, and then he
Speaker 1: said he flipped through a lot, but he was so
Speaker 1: proud Jay because he knew his legacy and my mom's
Speaker 1: legacy were not going to be lost. And he was
Speaker 1: a big believer in history and legacy, and he said,
Speaker 1: every generation has the responsibility to honor the generation before them,
Speaker 1: of all races, of all religions, everybody who sacrificed. The
Speaker 1: greatest way to say thank you to the people that
Speaker 1: you will never have met you can't say thank you to,
Speaker 1: is to honor them by taking the baton that they've
Speaker 1: given you and live your life. That's why my dad's
Speaker 1: big thing to me growing up was you better use
Speaker 1: your freedom wisely. I didn't have the freedom that you have.
Speaker 1: We're living in the same lifetime right now. I didn't
Speaker 1: have what you have. I couldn't go to the school
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to, and then go the hospitals
Speaker 1: I wanted to go to, couldn't get the healthcare nothing.
Speaker 1: I didn't have your rights. But I did not stop
Speaker 1: because you are the promise, and you j are the promise,
Speaker 1: like all our generation, everybody is the promise. You think
Speaker 1: of all these wars that have been fought and all
Speaker 1: around the world, and it's for a freedom that the
Speaker 1: Western world has. And war is not pretty, it's ugly,
Speaker 1: it's unfair, all of it. It's all nothing great. But
Speaker 1: the truth is that it has happened from the beginning
Speaker 1: of time. So I think I love that my father
Speaker 1: reminded me use your freedom wisely, and remember your ancestry,
Speaker 1: remember the people who came before you, and remember that
Speaker 1: you are the promise. You are the promise, So show up.
Speaker 2: Your parents are phenomena. Yeah, they're just.
Speaker 1: They're so it's so funny because they were so opposite.
Speaker 1: I was, I told somebody today my dad was Archie
Speaker 1: Bunker from all the family, and my mom was Queen Cleopatra,
Speaker 1: and they but their energies got together and they made magic,
Speaker 1: and they were complete opposites.
Speaker 2: But I just love how clear they were in their
Speaker 2: communication with you, that today their ideas are so clear
Speaker 2: for you, and they're so coherent for you, not just
Speaker 2: that you can repeat them. You know, when children can
Speaker 2: repeat smart things, we get impressed, But when we become adults,
Speaker 2: we don't get impressed by repetition. We get impressed if
Speaker 2: someone can actually live and apply the idea, apply the
Speaker 2: d and to be living and applying the idea is
Speaker 2: in this much at a time of such horrendous pain,
Speaker 2: that speaks volumes to just how deeply your parents taught
Speaker 2: you these incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they really wanted to make sure I never forgot,
Speaker 1: and it took advantage or took for granted what I had,
Speaker 1: you know, and the blessings that I had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was one line in here about the blessings
Speaker 2: that I loved, because you have an area called the
Speaker 2: blessings of our ancestors. The No, actually there was this.
Speaker 2: It is this that I wanted to pick out. This
Speaker 2: is for anyone who's going to be reading the book
Speaker 2: as well. This is on page ninety nine. I know
Speaker 2: now that my parents, my mother especially truly were preparing
Speaker 2: me for a terrible day like this. The lesson was this.
Speaker 2: It's not about the loss and the death. It's about
Speaker 2: the life, the dash between the dates. As my dad
Speaker 2: would say, that there is truly the art of living. YEA.
Speaker 2: The fact that you believe that your parents were preparing
Speaker 2: you for something hard and different.
Speaker 1: It was a subconscious knowing. But I would always say
Speaker 1: to them, does everything have to be a lesson to
Speaker 1: a lesson? It felt like every day I came home
Speaker 1: I got it. Can we just can I just go
Speaker 1: to soccer practice and come home and eat dinner and
Speaker 1: go to bed. And there was always a lesson. But
Speaker 1: my dad would say, you come with a number and
Speaker 1: you end with a number. What are you going to
Speaker 1: do with your dash? And it was all the time.
Speaker 1: And because they had seen so much tragedy. And my dad,
Speaker 1: I mean, he's born in nineteen thirty one, segregated America.
Speaker 1: He has seen his fair share of tragedy. So he
Speaker 1: didn't want me to be ignorant to the ills of people.
Speaker 1: He had already grown up with it. He had seen it.
Speaker 1: He was taught do not look up in the sky
Speaker 1: because you might see someone that you know who's lynched.
Speaker 1: That was the world he grew up in. But the
Speaker 1: beauty of him is that he still found a way
Speaker 1: to look at the great things of life. He still
Speaker 1: felt I have something to do in this life. He
Speaker 1: still felt I'm sick, eificant. He still felt that I'm
Speaker 1: going to go out and fight for my rights and
Speaker 1: fight for the rights of other people. And so he
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that I didn't become complacent. And
Speaker 1: so I think a lot of their lessons of reminded
Speaker 1: me of my history. There was so much pain or
Speaker 1: history in general, of all people, of all races. Because
Speaker 1: my mother loved you know, you know we all say
Speaker 1: now like cultural appropriation, She's like, it's appreciation. It's appreciation
Speaker 1: because she believed that you have brothers and sisters all
Speaker 1: around the world, that you're connected energetically. They're going to
Speaker 1: be different races, different religions, different genders, doesn't matter. You're
Speaker 1: still connected. And they were really big on that, which
Speaker 1: I love. But with that came the history of a
Speaker 1: lot of people. And so that's why I think they
Speaker 1: were preparing me, because I saw with all the great
Speaker 1: history of every culture, there is also so much pain
Speaker 1: and trauma that got them to the prom yes, And
Speaker 1: so my mom, that's what I meant by that, that
Speaker 1: they had prepared me because they gave me this appreciation
Speaker 1: of every culture that has been through something horrific and
Speaker 1: yet they still chose to live, and they chose to
Speaker 1: to still be good. And my mom's prescription always was
Speaker 1: be good, do good, Be good, do good. That's that's
Speaker 1: a start there. She'd always say, I'm going to start there.
Speaker 1: What do I do with this? Be good and do good?
Speaker 1: And even Right after she passed away, I went to
Speaker 1: a restaurant and the hostess was really rude and I
Speaker 1: was still fresh in my trauma, and she said something
Speaker 1: to somebody, and I remember I pointed my finger at her.
Speaker 1: I go, no, hey, wait, stop that, and she said, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. But even though I
Speaker 1: was quote in the right, I walked in and I
Speaker 1: could feel my mother inside me saying, you don't ever
Speaker 1: put your finger in somebody's face. Now, don't you ever
Speaker 1: put your finger in someone's face. So I remember walking
Speaker 1: over to the owner of the restaurant. I said, I'm
Speaker 1: really sorry. I just want to take ownership of this.
Speaker 1: I did do this. I am very sorry. I have
Speaker 1: apologized to her. It was rude and it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: that just I just want to own this. And he thought,
Speaker 1: you don't have to you really, I go, no, I
Speaker 1: really do, because I can feel my mother and I
Speaker 1: do not want to be haunted by her. But I
Speaker 1: could just hear her saying, doesn't matter how if something
Speaker 1: an eye for an eye doesn't work. So just because
Speaker 1: she was rude, doesn't mean that you have to go
Speaker 1: and be rude, you know, And that's what I had done.
Speaker 1: She was rude, so I said, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: you back, and I'm waving my finger and I could.
Speaker 1: My mom used to say, an eye for an eye
Speaker 1: does not work. We all know that. It's proof. It
Speaker 1: doesn't work. The karma doesn't settle. You just create more karma.
Speaker 1: You just create more karma. Yeah, so it doesn't work,
Speaker 1: it doesn't cancel it out. We think it's going to
Speaker 1: cancel the karma, and all it does is make more
Speaker 1: karma to get over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really fascinating. How I'm so glad you went there.
Speaker 2: I feel like we were so convinced that if someone
Speaker 2: does something bad, then we can react however we want.
Speaker 2: We're justified, but not realizing that it just creates more
Speaker 2: negative energy. It doesn't perpetuate. Yeah, it creates more chaos.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's nothing positive that comes out of an eye
Speaker 1: for an eye. We think that there is, but it doesn't.
Speaker 2: At the start of this interview, Nicole, you said you're
Speaker 2: in repair. I love that word. I think we're all
Speaker 2: at the workshop. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like that we are.
Speaker 2: Getting repair done and you know, being renewed and refueled
Speaker 2: in so many different ways. And I do you still cry?
Speaker 1: Yes, a lot. Just the other day, I saw something
Speaker 1: and it reminded me just right there. It was this
Speaker 1: dragon all a bunch of dragonflies. It was like a beehive,
Speaker 1: and I've never seen that before, and my mom loved dragonflies.
Speaker 1: And I when I tell you, I burst into tears,
Speaker 1: but deep cry, like belly cry, and I do cry
Speaker 1: a lot, but it's helpful for me because I've noticed
Speaker 1: the times where I want to stop crying, like, oh, Nicole,
Speaker 1: it's been twenty months, stop crying. No, it's and it
Speaker 1: does release. It's a release. And that's why I think
Speaker 1: that the creator gave us the ability to cry, to
Speaker 1: move that emotion, to get that emotion out, and to
Speaker 1: honor the emotion, to look at it for what it is.
Speaker 1: Because until I cry, I don't really know how I
Speaker 1: feel about things. Until I do cry, and then I realize, oh,
Speaker 1: that really did make me feel this way, or it
Speaker 1: did hurt me. I didn't realize how much that hurt
Speaker 1: me until the tears come.
Speaker 2: I'm so so yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the crying is important. And I actually will play
Speaker 1: music sometimes that I know will make me cry if
Speaker 1: I'm feeling stuck. And I know that as soon as
Speaker 1: I get this out, it's going to create a space
Speaker 1: for new energy to come in. But you know it's
Speaker 1: once you have that hard, stagnant energy, and if you
Speaker 1: don't move it, new energy doesn't get to come in.
Speaker 2: And Nicole, you've been so generous by sharing your journey
Speaker 2: with us today, and I'm really just appreciate how you've
Speaker 2: been down every normal natural path that anyone would mentally
Speaker 2: and emotionally and spiritually after this and you've found the
Speaker 2: and at the end of every path. You know, when
Speaker 2: we get to the end of every path and it
Speaker 2: feels like there's nothing beyond it, and then you've found
Speaker 2: the and which is that extension that we all need
Speaker 2: to find? And I genuinely, genuinely, genuinely believe that if
Speaker 2: anyone has someone they love, this book is a toolkit.
Speaker 2: It's a guy to give someone the transformation that we
Speaker 2: know is possible. But I am in awe of how
Speaker 2: you've responded and been able to channel your parents in
Speaker 2: this very difficult time. It's so easy to say it
Speaker 2: and share it, but to use it at this time
Speaker 2: is beautiful. And I pray and I meditate that anyone
Speaker 2: who reads this book receives the the courage that you have,
Speaker 2: the piece that you have gained, and the helpfulness for
Speaker 2: others to pass on what they've gained as well. Thank you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that, Nicole. We end every on Purpose episode
Speaker 2: with a final five. These are questions that have to
Speaker 2: be answered in one word to one sentence maximum okay,
Speaker 2: And I believe it will be a really useful exercise
Speaker 2: because I think we'll even discover further. So, Nicole Evan,
Speaker 2: these are your final five. Oh boy. The first is
Speaker 2: what is the best grief or advice you've received during grief?
Speaker 1: Love? Love matters that game changer for greed healing bomb.
Speaker 2: And what would you say is the worst grief advice
Speaker 2: or words to hear during times of grief.
Speaker 1: I know how you feel. I've said it so many
Speaker 1: times to people. I mean, I had to learn I
Speaker 1: was going through my own thing, going oh my god,
Speaker 1: I've said all the wrong things and done all the
Speaker 1: wrong things. But it's just a reaction that we all say.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's because when we say we know, we actually
Speaker 2: limit the other person's ability to share.
Speaker 1: Then share, yeah, so it's over. I know how you feel, like,
Speaker 1: oh well, I can't even tell you how I feel
Speaker 1: I can't even call on you to come and sit
Speaker 1: and talk with you and talk this out because you're
Speaker 1: already know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's no chance for me to feel understood or
Speaker 2: seen scene yes, or loved because.
Speaker 1: Heard any of it. Yeah, because you already know.
Speaker 2: Thank you. That's really beautiful. I wanted to ask you
Speaker 2: these three words you so eloquently chose. Third question for
Speaker 2: you is walk me through when you needed grit, when
Speaker 2: you required grace, and when you chose gratitude. You can
Speaker 2: give me one for each.
Speaker 1: So the grit showed up for me on this journey
Speaker 1: right when I got the news. I had to pivot
Speaker 1: and I had to Your grit for me is a hustle,
Speaker 1: it's a pivot, it's an action. And I had to
Speaker 1: have grit to move through these terrible times where I
Speaker 1: just want sit down and do nothing, and I had
Speaker 1: to be present and on and figure this out. The
Speaker 1: grace was choosing to forgive, choosing to give up the
Speaker 1: anger and the frustration and the pain and giving it
Speaker 1: up to a higher power and not letting it poison me.
Speaker 1: So that was the grace, and the gratitude was being
Speaker 1: so grateful that I had two parents who paid attention
Speaker 1: to me and supported me throughout my life. And I
Speaker 1: didn't understand a lot of things when I was younger.
Speaker 1: You know, they were a little more strict than the
Speaker 1: parents and a little more disciplined in all this. But
Speaker 1: thank God that I had parents who did show up
Speaker 1: for me, even in disagreements, even in hard times. I
Speaker 1: never once thought they weren't going to be there for me.
Speaker 1: And that's what I was the most grateful for that
Speaker 1: I had, that I had them and my friends and
Speaker 1: my friends that showed up for me. I'm grateful that.
Speaker 1: That's when I went into the gratitude of my gosh,
Speaker 1: people are showing up for me, and people are taking
Speaker 1: care of me.
Speaker 2: Thank you so beautiful. Question number four too left, Question
Speaker 2: number four, what was your most frequented prayer?
Speaker 1: I would say over and over again, my grand It
Speaker 1: was my grandmother's prayer, which is today is the day
Speaker 1: the Lord has made, and I choose to be glad
Speaker 1: and rejoiceful. And I just I choose to be glad
Speaker 1: and rejoice in it. Sorry, that's it. And I'd look
Speaker 1: at her like, okay, grandma whatever, she uses to sing
Speaker 1: the song, and she'd be cooking her food but I
Speaker 1: found that because it was repeated over and over again
Speaker 1: and I overheard her when I spent time with her,
Speaker 1: and it was that word choice, and I choose to
Speaker 1: be glad and rejoice in it. So I just thought, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can do that too. I don't feel like it
Speaker 1: and nothing is showing me that I should be joyful
Speaker 1: or glad, but I choose to rejoice in and choose
Speaker 1: to be glad, and then I found things to be
Speaker 1: glad about.
Speaker 2: That's how you found Yeah, that's how That's how.
Speaker 1: I That's how I found it. I really was. And
Speaker 1: then my big monitor was, you know, I'm just standing
Speaker 1: in my faith. I'm standing in my faith. I would
Speaker 1: say that over and over and over again, even though
Speaker 1: I didn't really believe that I was. I just said
Speaker 1: it over and over again because I needed to create
Speaker 1: some solid platform under me, otherwise it felt like Quicksand.
Speaker 2: Fifth and final question, Nicole. We asked this every guest
Speaker 2: who's ever been on the show. If you could create
Speaker 2: one law that everyone in the world had to follow,
Speaker 2: what would it be?
Speaker 1: The Golden Rule?
Speaker 2: Nicole, Again, so grateful to you for coming on on purpose,
Speaker 2: for everyone who's been listening or watching. The book is
Speaker 2: called Think You'll Be Happy. I want you to find
Speaker 2: out why it's called out when you read the book.
Speaker 2: That's why I did not ask the question. It's it's
Speaker 2: a beautiful reason why called think You'll be Happy. The
Speaker 2: book is full of so many more stories, deep texture
Speaker 2: of explanations behind things and call shared with us today.
Speaker 2: Please go and grab a copy, Share it with a
Speaker 2: loved one, Share it with someone who's lost one when
Speaker 2: you don't know the right thing to say or the
Speaker 2: right thing to text. If you feel the person who's
Speaker 2: ready to offer this to them, like I said, I'll
Speaker 2: be offering it and have already been offering it to friends.
Speaker 2: I wrote here as part of my testimonial, this book
Speaker 2: should be required reading for anyone wanting to understand how
Speaker 2: to trust in the light, even at the darkest times.
Speaker 2: And I truly mean that. The book by Nicole Evan. Please,
Speaker 2: of course, clip and cut as you always do. TikTok's
Speaker 2: Instagram reels that resonate with you, that connect with you,
Speaker 2: Share them across, spread them because I hope you felt
Speaker 2: the energy that I felt by sitting here. I want
Speaker 2: you all to feel it, and I want you all
Speaker 2: to share it because even if we're not going through
Speaker 2: something like this right now, I know this energy will
Speaker 2: be extremely he for those who are, so please pass
Speaker 2: it on and call them so grateful to.
Speaker 1: Thank thank you, so grateful, to you, Thank.
Speaker 2: You so much, thank you, thank you. If you love
Speaker 2: this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr Gabor Matte
Speaker 2: on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds
Speaker 2: to start moving on from the past. Everything in nature
Speaker 2: grows only where it's vulnerable. So a tree doesn't go
Speaker 2: overhere it's hard and thick, does it. It goes where
Speaker 2: it's soft and green and vulnerable.