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Speaker 2: Before we start, a quick warning there's explicit language in
Speaker 2: this episode. Okay, here we go.
Speaker 5: The calls can come at any time of the day,
Speaker 5: multiple times a day. Sometimes it's early in the morning
Speaker 5: when Mary Strata is getting ready for her administrative job
Speaker 5: with the County of Los Angeles. Oftentimes it's during her
Speaker 5: lunch break, when she's eating alone in the car looking
Speaker 5: for some privacy. And usually it's in the evenings as well,
Speaker 5: while she's at home in Pomona, a suburb east of
Speaker 5: Los Angeles, where she lives with her sister and her dog, Coco,
Speaker 5: a nervous wife poodle.
Speaker 3: When the phone rings, everything stops for Mary.
Speaker 4: You have a prepaid call from an inmate at the
Speaker 4: Honatory Town of and Correctional Facility, San Diego, California.
Speaker 3: It's her husband, Robert, calling from prison.
Speaker 5: Mary has been picking up his phone calls and paying
Speaker 5: for them for forty years.
Speaker 4: And recorded hello, Hello, Hi baby good.
Speaker 5: Even though she's not the one who's incarcerated, prison rules
Speaker 5: Mary's life too. She lives on her husband's schedule, and
Speaker 5: so do thousands of other women in the United States
Speaker 5: whose partners are in prison.
Speaker 2: From vudrou Media and pr X It's Latino USA. I'm
Speaker 2: Maria Nohosa Today. Mary's Journey an intimate look at the
Speaker 2: financial and emotional burden that women carry when they have
Speaker 2: a loved one in prison. One in four women one
Speaker 2: in four in the United States have a family member
Speaker 2: in prison, and those carrying this financial and emotional weight
Speaker 2: are disproportionately women who are not white. While over ninety
Speaker 2: percent of the prison population are men. It's women who
Speaker 2: end up spending billions of dollars every year on phone calls,
Speaker 2: prison store accounts, and in person visits. Mary Estrada is
Speaker 2: one of these women. She's been taking care of her husband,
Speaker 2: Robert for forty years, as he's been in and out
Speaker 2: of prison throughout his adult life. Latino USA Senior producer
Speaker 2: Marta Martinez, who you heard at the top of our show,
Speaker 2: spent a Sunday with Mary in February as Mary drove
Speaker 2: from Pomona, a suburb of Los Angeles, all the way
Speaker 2: to San Diego in order to visit her husban been
Speaker 2: in prison. This is what a regular Sunday looks like
Speaker 2: for Mary and for so many other women whose partners
Speaker 2: are incarcerated.
Speaker 3: Here's Martha with our story.
Speaker 4: Oh, good morning, how are you Macarty? That's fine.
Speaker 3: You wouldn't tell how early in the morning it is.
Speaker 5: By the way Mary Estrada looks, she has a perfect
Speaker 5: blowout with some waves framing her round, delicately made up face.
Speaker 4: It is cold, yeah, very cold.
Speaker 5: I can hardly see her dark eyes under the extra
Speaker 5: large eyelash extensions.
Speaker 4: So today is Sunday. It is six forty one in
Speaker 4: the morning. We're in Pomona, California, leaving my house to
Speaker 4: go visit my husband in San Diego and R. J.
Speaker 4: Donovan prison.
Speaker 5: Mary is fifty seven years old and she's been with
Speaker 5: Robert Estrada since they were teenagers. She started visiting her
Speaker 5: husband in prison some forty years ago. Robert has been
Speaker 5: in and out of prison all of his adult life.
Speaker 5: This is what most weekends look like for Mary. On Saturdays,
Speaker 5: she gets on a video call with Robert. On Sundays,
Speaker 5: she drives one hundred and thirty five miles each way
Speaker 5: to see him in prison.
Speaker 4: So this is my ritual when I go see my husband.
Speaker 4: Sack out to get about three o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 4: just to make sure I get there on time. If
Speaker 4: there's no traffic. Because I'm drive fast, I get there
Speaker 4: about I would say an hour and twenty minutes. But
Speaker 4: if I go with the speed limit, I'll get there
Speaker 4: in two hours. So today I'll go with the speed limit.
Speaker 5: Robert is currently being held at Richard J. Donovan Correctional
Speaker 5: Facility in San Diego, where he's serving a forty two
Speaker 5: year sentence involving the use of a gun during a
Speaker 5: robbery and voluntary manslaughter. We won't get into details about
Speaker 5: his case because that's not what this story is about.
Speaker 5: It isn't about the harsh experience of being incarcerated either,
Speaker 5: and we're not trying to undermine their reality or.
Speaker 3: Compare with that of their partners outside.
Speaker 5: Robert has served eleven years so far, and he's expected
Speaker 5: to stay in prison until at least twenty thirty seven.
Speaker 5: Mary is wearing what she calls her prison clothes. Dress
Speaker 5: code is very strict for prison visitors. The California Department
Speaker 5: of Corrections and Rehabilitation, or CDCR, advises to dress conservatively
Speaker 5: and modestly, which means no short skirts, no tight pants,
Speaker 5: no blue jeans or hair extensions. Mary wears an airy
Speaker 5: white dress with some embroidered flowers below the knee and
Speaker 5: a black V shaped sweater.
Speaker 3: On her chest hangs a silver crucifix.
Speaker 5: Her nails are extra long and Barbie pink with glitter
Speaker 5: butterflies on her ring fingers.
Speaker 6: Nails look great.
Speaker 4: Oh thank you. I took them off for like about
Speaker 4: two weeks and in type and I told my husband.
Speaker 4: She said, oh, you're working on a car again. He
Speaker 4: caused my hands. My candleccounts when I don't have nails on.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I have to have my nails on. I
Speaker 4: think I'm a diva. I mean, you can't lose yourself
Speaker 4: to this life. It's like you still have to get
Speaker 4: up and get ready. I mean, I was brought up
Speaker 4: that way. You'll never catch me walking out of my
Speaker 4: house not made up. It's like I have to have
Speaker 4: my hair done, my makeup. You never know if you
Speaker 4: get into a car accident. You don't want to look ugly.
Speaker 6: Tell me about your tachoo.
Speaker 4: So I have a tattoo on my chest with his name.
Speaker 5: It's a better Hawaiian flowers on the left side of
Speaker 5: her chest with Robert's name on top.
Speaker 3: All in black.
Speaker 4: Ink, and there's a story behind that. I had covered
Speaker 4: his name because we had broken up for a little bit,
Speaker 4: and then we had gotten back together and he said,
Speaker 4: why did you cover my name? Put it back on,
Speaker 4: and I said, no, I'm not a cow. I don't
Speaker 4: need to be branded. And then he said, no, to
Speaker 4: have my name by your heart means a lot. So
Speaker 4: I put his name back by my heart. Yeah. My
Speaker 4: husband too. He has my name all over his body
Speaker 4: and he has a couple of portraits of me.
Speaker 5: Mary says she wants to cover the tattoo on her
Speaker 5: chest again and have Robert's name next to her color
Speaker 5: bone on the right side.
Speaker 4: But I'm not going to get it big because because
Speaker 4: of work, I work with the public.
Speaker 5: After many years working as an accountant for private companies,
Speaker 5: Mary recently started working for the County of Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: She hasn't told her colleagues that Robert is in prison yet.
Speaker 5: For Mary, being able to take care of Robert was
Speaker 5: always above any job requirement.
Speaker 4: I've always told them during my interviews, I need to
Speaker 4: take phone calls when it comes in. There's no way
Speaker 4: can I miss those phone calls. And I have to
Speaker 4: take certain days off and if you guys can't meet that,
Speaker 4: please let me know now, and I won't take the job.
Speaker 5: Mary says she turned down at least two jobs for
Speaker 5: that reason already. From the se Justice Group, a nonprofit
Speaker 5: supporting women with incarcerated loved ones, found that nearly half
Speaker 5: of the women who are taking care of someone in
Speaker 5: prison changed their personal plans and careers to support their
Speaker 5: loved ones needs. Many of them end up working more
Speaker 5: hours or switching jobs so that they can pick up
Speaker 5: their calls or visit them often.
Speaker 4: I remember the first time that I went to go
Speaker 4: visit them because I've never been with anybody in prison,
Speaker 4: and I was nervous because I didn't know what to
Speaker 4: expect of it. But once I got through the process
Speaker 4: and I was in there with him, it was just
Speaker 4: like him and I. I was so happy to see him.
Speaker 4: I got to hold his hands, we got to hug,
Speaker 4: and we ate together there. The leaving part was hard
Speaker 4: for me for a long while because I would leave
Speaker 4: there crying. But now it's better, I think, because I've
Speaker 4: been doing it for so long, you know, it becomes
Speaker 4: like a routine to you. But there's still times we're
Speaker 4: all crying because I don't want to leave them behind.
Speaker 4: That feeling. I don't think it'll ever go away because
Speaker 4: you want to bring them home and you can't.
Speaker 6: So tell me what are we looking at?
Speaker 5: So we're looking at my photo album on the glass
Speaker 5: table in Pomona where Mary lives with her sister and
Speaker 5: her dog.
Speaker 3: There are three fat photo albums.
Speaker 4: This was like one of his first terms, so this
Speaker 4: was I want to say, this was falsome. This picture.
Speaker 5: Falsom is a prison in northern California, the first one
Speaker 5: Robert was incarcerated in as an adult. In the photo,
Speaker 5: both Robert and Mary are in their early twenties posing
Speaker 5: in front of a metal fence. Mary says. Robert has
Speaker 5: been held in all of California's state prisons except for
Speaker 5: Valley State Prison in Chowchilla. Falsam is the most beautiful one,
Speaker 5: Mary says, because it looks like a castle.
Speaker 4: This is their first visit in a long time, so
Speaker 4: I was kind of nervous, but then I was in.
Speaker 4: I was just happy to see him. Your curly hair,
Speaker 4: my curly hair that's in the eighties, my big hair.
Speaker 6: And these are pictures YouTube.
Speaker 4: In the prison. Yes, and the visits, Oh my god,
Speaker 4: much so many.
Speaker 5: There are hundreds of photos in them and they all
Speaker 5: look similar. Mary and Robert in a half hag looking
Speaker 5: at the camera and smiling, all with a prison in
Speaker 5: the background.
Speaker 4: He's been in and out of prison all his life.
Speaker 4: I don't even recall him being home for two months.
Speaker 5: Mary was born in the Philippines, but she grew up
Speaker 5: in Los Angeles. She went to high school with Robert's sister.
Speaker 5: Robert is two years younger than Mary. They were both
Speaker 5: teenagers when they started dating, but they would break up
Speaker 5: and get back together often.
Speaker 4: I was a troubled child, rebellious. I didn't complete high school.
Speaker 4: I was molested, and it just took a lot out
Speaker 4: of me.
Speaker 5: Mary started drinking when she was twelve years old. At
Speaker 5: the same age, a family member introduced her to drugs.
Speaker 5: She smoked PCP or angel dust. She also did cocaine,
Speaker 5: acid snorted heroin. She spent two nights in jail for
Speaker 5: the first time at the age of eighteen for stealing
Speaker 5: clothes at them all, I think.
Speaker 4: With the drugs, I just buried my pain in there,
Speaker 4: and every time I thought of my childhood, it just,
Speaker 4: you know, it ripped me apart. And it still does.
Speaker 3: Robert's childhood wasn't easy either.
Speaker 5: He grew up in the San Fernando Valley, a majority
Speaker 5: Latino area. His mother is Mexican, his father is Italian Mexican.
Speaker 4: His mother, she had custody of him, but she wasn't nurturing.
Speaker 4: His father introduced him to drugs at the age of ten.
Speaker 4: So my husband was like a throwaway kid, and he
Speaker 4: just he grew up in the streets just doing drugs.
Speaker 4: Everybody could tell me, why aren't you with him, He's
Speaker 4: bad news. Leave him. I didn't see that in him.
Speaker 4: I saw a kind gentleman.
Speaker 5: Robert joined a gang, he started selling drugs, doing carjackings, robberies.
Speaker 5: When he was eighteen, he went to prison for the
Speaker 5: first time as an adult. He ended up in solitary
Speaker 5: confinement for about a week, so they couldn't talk, and
Speaker 5: Mary missed him. She says that's the moment she realized
Speaker 5: she was in love with him.
Speaker 4: I never not had a boyfriend, and with him, it
Speaker 4: was just so different. There was a connection that I
Speaker 4: can't even explain. It's like this guy took my heart.
Speaker 4: I knew that I was going to be with him
Speaker 4: for the rest of my life. Whether he was out
Speaker 4: here or in there.
Speaker 5: Mary started spending most of her weekends as an adult
Speaker 5: visiting Robert in prison. She would go wherever he was
Speaker 5: being held, like Sacramento, which was a nine hour drive
Speaker 5: for Mary.
Speaker 6: What would your family or your friend's say.
Speaker 4: That I was stupid for doing this journey for visiting him.
Speaker 4: They said that I could do better. But he can't
Speaker 4: control what your heart feilds, and this is who my
Speaker 4: heart wanted.
Speaker 5: Mary's family would organize trips every once in a while
Speaker 5: to Hawaii to Memphis to visit Graceland Elvis's house, but
Speaker 5: Mary refused to join them.
Speaker 4: Because I didn't want to leave my husband behind. He
Speaker 4: can't go, So if he can't go, then why am
Speaker 4: I going to go. I'm not gonna have fun. I'm
Speaker 4: just gonna think about him. So I'd rather be here
Speaker 4: with him where I could visit him. Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
Speaker 4: and Sunday.
Speaker 5: Mary was working three jobs at the time, and she
Speaker 5: would juggle her schedules around so that she could leave early.
Speaker 4: It was always on his schedule. It was about him.
Speaker 4: And you know what, ninety nine percent of the prison
Speaker 4: community with the wives and the girlfriends are the same way.
Speaker 4: We have to get those phone calls, we have to
Speaker 4: get those appointments, we have to see them.
Speaker 5: Flipping through the albums, I see a photo where Mary
Speaker 5: and Robert are kissing.
Speaker 4: Oh that one. Yeah, that's when kissing was allowed and
Speaker 4: now they don't allow it. It's not here's one of us.
Speaker 4: Here's one of us making out. Oh who uses that word? God?
Speaker 4: It was so long. This isn't in nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 4: November ninety two. That's his writing, his nice penmanship. This one.
Speaker 4: I was pregnant.
Speaker 5: Mary had her daughter, Samantha, at twenty five years old,
Speaker 5: and she gave birth on her own. California is one
Speaker 5: of only four states that still allow conjugal visits. For Samantha,
Speaker 5: growing up while her dad was in prison was tough.
Speaker 5: All she remembers is going to visit him.
Speaker 4: There, she because you stole my childhood away from me,
Speaker 4: and I felt bad. I felt bad. She didn't have
Speaker 4: a relationship with her dad for a long time. She
Speaker 4: hated him. She wouldn't speak to him because of what
Speaker 4: he's put me through.
Speaker 5: The year nineteen ninety six was a turning point for Mary.
Speaker 5: She spent four months in jail on drug charges, Mary
Speaker 5: felt the only way she could work on herself and
Speaker 5: get sober was to leave Robert, who was still using drugs.
Speaker 3: They were apart for.
Speaker 5: Ten years, then in two thousand and six, she visited
Speaker 5: him in prison and decided to get back together. Things
Speaker 5: got better over time with Samantha as well. She has
Speaker 5: three children, and Mary says they visit Robert in prison
Speaker 5: when they're in California.
Speaker 4: Everybody tells me, it's like you put your life on
Speaker 4: hold and it's still on hold. When are you gonna live?
Speaker 4: But this is living for me. I can't see my
Speaker 4: life without him. Speak of the devil.
Speaker 5: While I'm talking to Mary in her home, she gets
Speaker 5: one of those phone calls that puts everything on hold.
Speaker 4: Hello, you have a prepaid call from Robert.
Speaker 5: Robert and Mary chat about the problems with the food
Speaker 5: sold by the prison cafe. Families could only buy their
Speaker 5: fresh foods for their overnight visits also known as family
Speaker 5: visits from one bender.
Speaker 6: I'm taking great.
Speaker 5: He married team tap with several other women to complain
Speaker 5: about the food vender. They say he was selling them
Speaker 5: rotten and expired food. They also point out that his
Speaker 5: prices are higher than at regular source. Yeah, Robert tells
Speaker 5: Mary that the news about the food complaints have spread
Speaker 5: inside Donovan as well.
Speaker 4: Okay good.
Speaker 5: Mary is the one leading this movement, as she calls it.
Speaker 5: Advocacy is a big part of Mary's life. She manages
Speaker 5: several Facebook groups for families of the incarcerated in California,
Speaker 5: and two of them are dedicated to R. J. Donovan,
Speaker 5: the San Diego prison. Mary says there are more than
Speaker 5: three hundred and thirty people in the Donovan group and
Speaker 5: they're allway.
Speaker 4: That has to change as well, because the food is
Speaker 4: rotten in there, and then like when you guys have
Speaker 4: power outages, those machines go down, so all that melted
Speaker 4: ice cream is still sitting there, and then we're purchasing it.
Speaker 4: Why do you think I never eat the ice cream?
Speaker 4: I tell you stop eating it.
Speaker 5: Mary created a food committee with six other women from
Speaker 5: her Facebook group. They reached out to the Department of
Speaker 5: Corrections and other agencies to complain about the vendor and
Speaker 5: ask if he was authorized to sell fresh food to families,
Speaker 5: among other issues. Mary wants the men inside Donovan to
Speaker 5: file a complaint on their end as.
Speaker 1: Well, but I don't think well.
Speaker 4: I need that started Babe.
Speaker 7: I know.
Speaker 3: It's harder for the men to complain. They're afraid of retiliation.
Speaker 4: I can call it the health department and have them
Speaker 4: look at all that unit and does shut it down.
Speaker 4: And the only reason why I don't it's because we
Speaker 4: want our family visits.
Speaker 5: It's not the first time Mary's being vocal about the
Speaker 5: problems at Donovan. She's organized protests in front of the
Speaker 5: prison and talked to the media about Donovan's mismanagement during
Speaker 5: the pandemic. She has served as a family representative at
Speaker 5: the prison, and she speaks regularly. We see the headquarters
Speaker 5: and all of that affects Robert too, But Robert is
Speaker 5: very proud of Mary and her advocacy for the families.
Speaker 5: He says Mary is the only good thing that's ever
Speaker 5: happened to him, and that men at Donovan want their
Speaker 5: wives to be more like Mary, the way she's always
Speaker 5: there for him and fighting to make things better. Last Christmas,
Speaker 5: Robert painted a portrait of Mary as a gift for her.
Speaker 5: In the painting, Mary wears a white hat with a
Speaker 5: blue ribbon that reads masterpiece.
Speaker 4: And I'm sorry because I know that this also puts
Speaker 4: you in a position. I'm not trying to get anybody
Speaker 4: in trouble. I just want what's right.
Speaker 8: I had six.
Speaker 4: I love you all right, Yeah, I'm fine.
Speaker 7: Things. It's so dark at the picture.
Speaker 4: Shut up with you in your stupid picture.
Speaker 6: I know, I think.
Speaker 4: I love you.
Speaker 6: I love you.
Speaker 4: God, bless you. Okay, bye, honey, God. I hate that
Speaker 4: prison always something. I'm sorry. I just get so passionate
Speaker 4: about it. You can call it puppy love. But he's
Speaker 4: my true love. He's my best friend. Even though he's
Speaker 4: in there, I can depend on him for anything. He's
Speaker 4: my backbone, he really is. I'm gonna get teary eyed.
Speaker 2: Coming up on Latin the USA, we continue our journey
Speaker 2: with Mary to RJ. Donovan Correctional Facility, and along the
Speaker 2: way we meet another woman who's learning the ropes of
Speaker 2: being married to someone in prison.
Speaker 3: Stay with us, mayes.
Speaker 4: Hi.
Speaker 8: I'm Nando Villa, host of Shoot the Messenger. I want
Speaker 8: to congratulate Latino USA on thirty years of great journalism.
Speaker 8: Over the past three decades, Latino USA has done an
Speaker 8: amazing job highlighting voices and stories that go unseen. The heart,
Speaker 8: creativity and empathy that the Latino USA team brings to
Speaker 8: their journalism is inspiring. On top of that, Mariaokosa's presence
Speaker 8: has been so important for journalists of color everywhere, finding
Speaker 8: their voice and place in audio from Shoot the Messenger
Speaker 8: and exile content. Thank you for this legacy, and please
Speaker 8: keep up the good work.
Speaker 2: Hey, we're back before the break. We began our journey
Speaker 2: to accompany Mary Estrada in one of her visits to R.
Speaker 2: Jay Donovan. That's the prison in San Diego where her
Speaker 2: husband Robert is being held. Mary's been visiting and taking
Speaker 2: care of Robert in prison for forty years. Latino USA
Speaker 2: Senior producer Marta Martinez is back in the car with Mary,
Speaker 2: and we're going to join them.
Speaker 4: Now, I hate driving. It takes a toll, but'd say
Speaker 4: we're not even halfways there. We're not even a quarter's
Speaker 4: ways there.
Speaker 5: The sun is getting higher in the sky and Mary
Speaker 5: protects her eyes with the car's sunbiser. She doesn't wear sunglasses.
Speaker 5: The freeway is not busy, and we speed along the
Speaker 5: yellow hills, the suburban where houses and empty parking lots
Speaker 5: of southern California.
Speaker 6: What do you do usually when because you do this
Speaker 6: most of the time, you do it alone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, now I would have my music. I'm just singing,
Speaker 4: and then there's I go through like different spurts of music.
Speaker 4: It's weird because I'll start off with mellow music, and
Speaker 4: then I'll go into like dancing music, and then I'll
Speaker 4: go back to love songs, and then I start crying.
Speaker 4: And by the time I get to my Visitseck, my
Speaker 4: eyes are puffy from crying. But the drive, to me,
Speaker 4: it's not that long anymore because I'm so used to it.
Speaker 4: But there's other people that drive far, like Pelican Bay.
Speaker 4: For me, that would be sixteen hours, and he was
Speaker 4: there before, and even when he was in Sacramento. I
Speaker 4: would go every weekend. I would leave at ten pm
Speaker 4: Friday nights, and that was like a nine hour drive,
Speaker 4: so you would drive over night. Yeap. I didn't sleep,
Speaker 4: but I was younger back then. Now it's just like
Speaker 4: I need to sleep.
Speaker 3: Next to her car seat.
Speaker 5: Mary has a tiny plastic purse full of meds and
Speaker 5: doctor's notes. One of those notes, for example, states that
Speaker 5: she needs a special diet which allows her to bring
Speaker 5: her own food for family visits. Several women from Mary's
Speaker 5: Facebook group have doctor's notes too.
Speaker 4: How cones of heart failure. Six seven months ago, I
Speaker 4: went to go visit him and I felt really off.
Speaker 4: So when I got to my visit, my husband was
Speaker 4: worried because I kept dozing off. Then I ended up
Speaker 4: my visit earlier, but I couldn't even drive out, so
Speaker 4: when I went to the doctor, it showed that I
Speaker 4: had a mild heart attack.
Speaker 5: Whow Having a loved one in prison damages women's emotional
Speaker 5: and physical health. According to a study by the sy
Speaker 5: Justice Group, more than ninety percent of the women whose
Speaker 5: partners are incarcerated reported feeling anxiety, depression, migraines, insomnia, fatigue,
Speaker 5: and all of that can lead to more serious conditions
Speaker 5: in the long term too.
Speaker 4: And there's been times where I was hospitalized and because
Speaker 4: I didn't want to miss my visit, I would check
Speaker 4: myself out of the hospital just to make my visit.
Speaker 4: But I actually ended up screwing myself because don't ever
Speaker 4: mess with your health. You can't.
Speaker 5: Between the pandemic and Mary's health issues, she started cutting
Speaker 5: down on her weekend visits to San Diego for a while.
Speaker 4: And my husband he had to sit down and really
Speaker 4: talk to me because he thought I had a boyfriend.
Speaker 4: It's like oh no, and he was just like, you
Speaker 4: need to come and see me, because when I don't
Speaker 4: see you, I feel empty and I don't feel whole.
Speaker 5: Mary says, Robert gets depressed and he won't leave his cell.
Speaker 5: Dealing with the realities of prison takes a toll on
Speaker 5: him too. He says he often witnesses abuse fights even that,
Speaker 5: especially during COVID and without visits or phone calls.
Speaker 3: It's even harder.
Speaker 4: We're all that they have.
Speaker 5: And if Robert is Mary's backbone, Mary is even more
Speaker 5: so for Robert. She's his biggest support, both emotionally and financially.
Speaker 4: And I tell everybody, this journey is not easy. Evaluate
Speaker 4: or reevaluate your lives before you do this journey, because
Speaker 4: there is no going back. It's time consuming, it's expensive.
Speaker 5: Mary says she makes seventy thousand dollars a year. It
Speaker 5: took her years to get out of debt keeping up
Speaker 5: with the costs of supporting Robert. A third of families
Speaker 5: who have a loved one in prison go into debt
Speaker 5: when they support them financially. According to our report of
Speaker 5: the Ella Baker Center for Human Rights, a nonprofit group
Speaker 5: that focuses on organizing black brown and low income people.
Speaker 4: He goes full store. It's two forty a month.
Speaker 5: Every month, Mary puts two hundred and forty dollars in
Speaker 5: Robert's commissary account. He can buy additional food like soups, tortillas,
Speaker 5: packaged meat, twinkies, and hygiene products. Mary says food serve
Speaker 5: that the prison is not enough and it's often unhealthy.
Speaker 5: No fresh fruits or vegetables, sometimes even expired or rotten,
Speaker 5: so many incarcerated people rely on commissary food for their diets.
Speaker 5: Mary worries about Robert's diet a lot, because she says
Speaker 5: he has stage four cirrhosis and stage three kidney failure.
Speaker 4: I buy his quarterly packages.
Speaker 5: Families can send care packages whenever they want. They can
Speaker 5: only do that every three months, but there's a catch.
Speaker 5: These packages can only be bought through third party vendors
Speaker 5: authorized by the prison. Through them, families are allowed to
Speaker 5: buy essentials like pre good foods and hygien products, but
Speaker 5: also clothes, electronics, and even wedding rings. But the items
Speaker 5: in these catalogs are often more expensive than they would
Speaker 5: be at a regular supermarket, sometimes even double, like the
Speaker 5: pre cooked Spanish rice Robert Blake sweet Mary and other
Speaker 5: women told me they spend between two hundred.
Speaker 3: And four hundred dollars on each quarterly package.
Speaker 4: And then you have to pay for the phone calls.
Speaker 4: Before it was just straight collect calls, so when he
Speaker 4: was in County jail, a fifteen minute phone call would
Speaker 4: be like almost twenty five dollars for me.
Speaker 5: Phone calls are one of the biggest money drains for
Speaker 5: families in California. At the start of twenty twenty three,
Speaker 5: phone calls became free of charge for people incarcerated in
Speaker 5: state prisons. Before then, families were paying an estimated sixty
Speaker 5: eight million.
Speaker 3: A year in prison phone calls.
Speaker 5: California is only one of four states in the country
Speaker 5: which have made state prison calls free. The Prison Policy Initiative,
Speaker 5: a nonprofit research group, estimated that families across the US
Speaker 5: spent and nearly three billion dollars yes with a Bee
Speaker 5: every year in commissary.
Speaker 3: Fees and phone calls.
Speaker 5: And then, of course Mary has to pay for the
Speaker 5: gas to go visit Robert every weekend, and the food
Speaker 5: she'll get from the vending machine there because they aren't
Speaker 5: allowed to bring their own food.
Speaker 3: A Hamburger, for example, is eight dollars, So.
Speaker 4: On an average a month, I would spend maybe like
Speaker 4: a little over fifteen hundred plus I have to see
Speaker 4: what I have here, so it's been hard.
Speaker 3: Mary lives with her sister.
Speaker 5: They own the house in Pomona, so she doesn't have
Speaker 5: to pay rent, but she still has to pay for
Speaker 5: her own expenses, her car, her dog, all of that,
Speaker 5: making seventy thousand dollars a year. For a long time,
Speaker 5: Mary also took care of their daughter, Samantha. Seventy percent
Speaker 5: of women who have incarcerated loved ones are the only
Speaker 5: breadwinners in their families.
Speaker 4: And there were times where I couldn't go because I
Speaker 4: didn't have any money, and he would just tell me,
Speaker 4: I don't have to eat, just come and see me
Speaker 4: because I want to see you.
Speaker 3: So we would do that if that wasn't enough.
Speaker 5: In the majority of cases, it's women who end up
Speaker 5: paying for their loved ones restitution.
Speaker 4: Restitution is no joke.
Speaker 5: Restitution is the money convicted people have to pay back
Speaker 5: for the damage they caused, both to the victims and
Speaker 5: to the state. The way Callifornia collects that money is
Speaker 5: that they take fifty percent of the money family's food
Speaker 5: in the incarcerated person's account like the money they use
Speaker 5: for the prison store or commissary.
Speaker 4: So I would have to put five hundred dollars every
Speaker 4: three weeks for him to get full store. So a
Speaker 4: lot of the families couldn't afford that. That's highway robbery.
Speaker 4: It took me, I want to say, six years to
Speaker 4: pay off his restitution.
Speaker 5: Robert's restitution was ten thousand dollars. The average dead families
Speaker 5: end up with for court related fines and fees is
Speaker 5: close to fourteen thousand dollars. Mary would often max out
Speaker 5: her credit cards without telling Robert.
Speaker 4: But all the money that I put into my husband
Speaker 4: from the age of eighteen till now, I'd be a
Speaker 4: multi millionaire. I mean that's like hundreds and thousands of
Speaker 4: dollars that I've spent. I could be driving a freaking
Speaker 4: Mercedes and I'm driving a hund Die. They're a liability
Speaker 4: because they're money. We have to pay for them. We
Speaker 4: had to pay to talk to them, we had to
Speaker 4: pay to see them, we had to pay to feed them,
Speaker 4: We have to pay to have these family visits.
Speaker 5: Family visits are another expensive piece of the relationship puzzle,
Speaker 5: but also one of the most coveted because it's the
Speaker 5: only time spouses can be together with their family members
Speaker 5: for two days and nights without supervision. Mary says she
Speaker 5: usually spends more than five hundred dollars on a family visit,
Speaker 5: the food, the gas, and she has them every three
Speaker 5: months or so. But for some women in her Facebook group,
Speaker 5: a family visit costs a lot more. For example, Virginia
Speaker 5: lives in Presno, so she either has to drive for
Speaker 5: more than six hours and pay for the gas or
Speaker 5: pay for a plane ticket, which is often between two
Speaker 5: hundred and three hundred dollars. She also needs to pay
Speaker 5: for at least one hotel night, so she ends up
Speaker 5: spending more than one thousand dollars on each family visit.
Speaker 4: I told my husband and excuse my friend, I said, babe,
Speaker 4: you're a freaking porn star. And he's all, why I
Speaker 4: have to pay you to screw you? I said, that's
Speaker 4: one expensive ass, but it's the truth. I said, I've
Speaker 4: never had to pay for sex, and that's what we're doing.
Speaker 4: Us families are paying for sex. But what are we
Speaker 4: going to do? Because we want to be there and
Speaker 4: the families will pay that price.
Speaker 5: Less than an hour after starting our drive south, we
Speaker 5: take an exit into another suburban area.
Speaker 4: We're also on the way to pick up my carpooler
Speaker 4: who is also going to RG Donovan. Her name is Yvette.
Speaker 5: Yvette Carrion is also a member of Mary's Facebook group
Speaker 5: and one of the youngest wives in it.
Speaker 3: She's thirty five years old.
Speaker 4: So I'm getting off the acted to pick up my
Speaker 4: friend because I'm going to meet her at the walmart
Speaker 4: A life of a prison wife.
Speaker 3: It's not even seven thirty am. The parking lot feels lonely.
Speaker 4: We actually got her in good timing.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was fast.
Speaker 5: A few minutes later, Yvette shows up by the passenger window.
Speaker 4: Here she is, hi, Vett, Sorry, did I get her faster? No,
Speaker 4: you've got her. I'm okay, sitting like ninety. Don't we
Speaker 4: do a ninety You might get into an accident.
Speaker 5: Yvette is petite with a square face and light brown,
Speaker 5: very straight hair. Her nails are long and made up
Speaker 5: as well, white triangles framing a summit on top of
Speaker 5: each finger. She's a second generation Latina. Her family is
Speaker 5: from the Mexican state of Sinaloa.
Speaker 6: Okay, so I'm trying this new grown day Mary, So
Speaker 6: you know just in case.
Speaker 7: Okay, well it's wireless, but it has the plastic clips
Speaker 7: on the straps.
Speaker 6: Yes, will you set off teller?
Speaker 7: No, A lot of girls wear them home.
Speaker 5: Yeah, as soon as she gets in the car. This
Speaker 5: is the first thing Yvette asks Mary about her Brakay.
Speaker 4: That dress code at the prison is it's crazy. You
Speaker 4: have to be with their guidelines, like you can't wear
Speaker 4: regular bra no, because of the wires, yep, and the buckles.
Speaker 6: I didn't know that.
Speaker 5: I hadn't realized how intimately prison rules these women's lives
Speaker 5: down to their underwear.
Speaker 4: They just try their hardest to deter you from coming
Speaker 4: to visit, and they never make it easy. Never.
Speaker 7: I used to come all the visiting days every weekend,
Speaker 7: but I stop doing that just because, like Mary says,
Speaker 7: they make it to where you don't want to come anymore. So,
Speaker 7: like we can't stand to walk on eggshells about everything
Speaker 7: when we come.
Speaker 3: In here, Yvette says.
Speaker 5: The weekend before, she waited almost two hours for her
Speaker 5: husband to get into the visiting room. She says guards
Speaker 5: made him change his clothes three times, and they wouldn't
Speaker 5: explain why. That's one of the things that makes Yvette
Speaker 5: mad that everything feels arbitrary. They're at the mercy of
Speaker 5: the correction officer who's in charge that day.
Speaker 7: It's still grading you to say, I feel like they
Speaker 7: treat us the way like they treat them. They don't
Speaker 7: view us any differently. We're like inmates on time out.
Speaker 5: We reached out to the Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation
Speaker 5: about this. In a statement, they said that they recommend
Speaker 5: visitors to arrive at least one hour early for processing.
Speaker 5: That's when anyone who enters the facility is searched for
Speaker 5: potential contraband. Prison officials say it is a necessary step
Speaker 5: to ensure the safety of incarcerated individuals and that they
Speaker 5: follow the same rules at each prison.
Speaker 6: How did you beat Mary?
Speaker 7: Do you remember the first I see Mary? She was
Speaker 7: pissed off sitting in that lobby, and I was just
Speaker 7: like what I was looking at her?
Speaker 4: I was like, oh, dang, she really is me. And
Speaker 4: then I finally introduced.
Speaker 7: Myself to her, and then we just started talking more
Speaker 7: and then carpulling together. I appreciate Mary because I would
Speaker 7: be so lost with this whole journey, because there's a
Speaker 7: lot of things we don't know, not even tell my
Speaker 7: husband sometimes like like, I'm gonna ask Mary, and he's like,
Speaker 7: you always ask Mary.
Speaker 4: I'm like, well, yeah, she knows a lot. I'm like
Speaker 4: new to all this.
Speaker 5: Yvette and Jonathan went to high school together, but back
Speaker 5: then they were just friends. Jonathan went to prison when
Speaker 5: he was eighteen. He's been in there for twenty years.
Speaker 5: Yvette had four children with another partner, then separated. She
Speaker 5: reconnected with Jonathan and they started talking on the phone
Speaker 5: more and more often. Four years ago, she started visiting
Speaker 5: him in prison.
Speaker 7: I never came to visit anyone in prison. I ended
Speaker 7: up coming with him, and then I saw one of
Speaker 7: my husband and we got married.
Speaker 5: Jonathan got married in March twenty twenty, right before COVID
Speaker 5: lockdowns were put in place. They weren't allowed to take
Speaker 5: any photos of their wedding ceremony because of COVID restrictions,
Speaker 5: and because of the pandemic.
Speaker 3: They didn't have a conjugal visit until a year later.
Speaker 5: By the time we met, ived says, they had had
Speaker 5: about three family visits since they got married.
Speaker 7: Every few months we get to spend a few nights together.
Speaker 7: So it's not too bad because right now I'm still
Speaker 7: working on myself. So it works for me because Monday
Speaker 7: through Friday, I'm doing what I need to do at home,
Speaker 7: at work with my kids, and the weekends I see
Speaker 7: him and then it's back to my reality. So it's
Speaker 7: easier because, let's be honest, like having a husband or
Speaker 7: a boyfriend in general is like having another kid to
Speaker 7: take care of sometimes.
Speaker 5: Yvet says she spends close to one thousand dollars a
Speaker 5: month to support Jonathan. She's also a full time mom
Speaker 5: four children under the age of nineteen, and she's finishing
Speaker 5: her bachelor's degree in social work. She recently started a
Speaker 5: new job as a social worker working with children.
Speaker 6: That's one thing, he said.
Speaker 7: He never wants to get in the way of my career,
Speaker 7: and he loves that I care about kids the way
Speaker 7: I do, he says, that's one thing he admires about me.
Speaker 5: If it hasn't told many of her colleagues that her
Speaker 5: husband is in prison, not everyone.
Speaker 7: Knows, because right when I started, I felt like I
Speaker 7: was judged right away just by the way I look
Speaker 7: my makeup.
Speaker 5: Ivette has several tattoos on her arms and her chest.
Speaker 5: On the base of her right thumb, there's a rose
Speaker 5: and growing from its petals up to her knuckles.
Speaker 3: It says Jonathan, I.
Speaker 7: Don't want them to feel like me be married to
Speaker 7: him is going to get in the way of my
Speaker 7: job because I see how they talk about parents that
Speaker 7: are incarcerated. It's like they just look down on them.
Speaker 5: If it actually sees her experience as something that makes
Speaker 5: her better at her job because she can see both
Speaker 5: sides in a situation.
Speaker 6: Do you feel like you have a double life.
Speaker 4: It is a double life. We have this life and
Speaker 4: then we have our outside life, and especially with work.
Speaker 4: You don't want to bring that out because you don't
Speaker 4: know what they're gonna say or think. It's like a
Speaker 4: big secret. Like my neighbors. She didn't even know my
Speaker 4: husband was incarcerated. So I told her like last month.
Speaker 4: She goes, how can I never take your husband? And said,
Speaker 4: because he's in jail. She said what I said, Oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: he's incarcerated. She goes, oh, I said, why is there
Speaker 4: a problem? Mage right away, Like.
Speaker 6: She has a very strong personality.
Speaker 7: I could be very strong minded too, So I think
Speaker 7: that's why we get along as well, because other people
Speaker 7: are like very passive.
Speaker 4: Like, oh my god, just leave it alone.
Speaker 7: And no, you can't always leave things alone because then
Speaker 7: the thing's gonna change and people are gonna continue to
Speaker 7: get away with walking.
Speaker 4: All over people. Yeah, people shouldn't be so cruel and people.
Speaker 4: They need to stop labeling others, just like with us,
Speaker 4: because we're with men incarcerated. That doesn't make us a loser.
Speaker 4: We have careers, We have a life out here. And
Speaker 4: if the correctional officers they look at us like you
Speaker 4: first come, like you don't know any better. We're not
Speaker 4: educated and just know you guys are wrong. We are
Speaker 4: educated and I'm happy with what I have. I may
Speaker 4: not make a lot of money, but I've accomplished a lot.
Speaker 5: Mary isn't afraid to face a giant institution like the
Speaker 5: California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation or CDCR. There are
Speaker 5: more than one hundred thousand people incarcerated in California, the
Speaker 5: highest number in the country after Texas.
Speaker 7: She will tell them how it is, and they don't
Speaker 7: even know what to say because they know she's right,
Speaker 7: and they know.
Speaker 4: She knows her rights there more than anyone, and she
Speaker 4: just won't allow it.
Speaker 6: So you're a badass.
Speaker 4: No, I'm a softie. I just I believe in what's
Speaker 4: fair is fair, and you're not gonna mistreat me. And
Speaker 4: I know the law too because my dad was a
Speaker 4: police officer, and plus because I went to jail, I
Speaker 4: went to juvenile so I know all that. You can't
Speaker 4: tell me I'm wrong when I'm actually right.
Speaker 5: CDCR has a budget of more than fourteen billion dollars
Speaker 5: taxpayer dollars, and it employs more than sixty thousand people.
Speaker 4: They have so many restrictions for the families, and they're
Speaker 4: made up restrictions and they think that they can get
Speaker 4: away with it. Like with these women, I push them.
Speaker 4: I always though I'm exercise or amendment rights. If you're
Speaker 4: not sure of it, look it up. Don't let them
Speaker 4: deter you from doing what you think is right. That's
Speaker 4: what advocacy is. If you feel that they're in the wrong,
Speaker 4: call them out on it. But before you call them
Speaker 4: out on it, make sure you have proof, you have facts.
Speaker 4: This journey's not easy, and especially when you're new to it,
Speaker 4: because you're blindsided by a lot of stuff and you
Speaker 4: want that one person that does know it to help you.
Speaker 6: And that's Mary for a lot of us, Thank you.
Speaker 7: It is everyone knows right if we really can't find
Speaker 7: the answer even if we research were Black asks Mary
Speaker 7: ask Mary, And I know sometimes she pig gets.
Speaker 4: Overwhelmed with everyone bugging her, but.
Speaker 6: We appreciate her.
Speaker 3: Mary isn't only on call for Robert.
Speaker 5: She spends more than three hours a day managing Facebook
Speaker 5: groups for families of the incarcerated, answering the questions, text messages,
Speaker 5: impromptu calls day and night. She sits in the car
Speaker 5: for hours during committee meetings while driving or just parked
Speaker 5: in her driveway when the meetings extend way beyond their
Speaker 5: scheduled end.
Speaker 4: I just want to help people that need the help
Speaker 4: because I was in their shoes before and I didn't
Speaker 4: know what to do. And if it wasn't for the
Speaker 4: women that I hung out with, and they were lifer women,
Speaker 4: they taught me everything. And they've always told me, regardless
Speaker 4: of who you are, you stay tued to yourself, don't
Speaker 4: ever buckle down. If you believe it's right, then use
Speaker 4: down for it. And that's what I've done.
Speaker 7: Because sometimes your regular friends or family, they don't really
Speaker 7: underst so it's hard to talk to them when you're
Speaker 7: going through something and you need to because a lot
Speaker 7: of times, you're just going to be judgmental and say
Speaker 7: negative things that you don't really want to hear. So
Speaker 7: it's helpful to have a friend that's another prison wife
Speaker 7: because they understand what you're going through.
Speaker 5: Yvette is also part of the food committee that Mary
Speaker 5: created from her Facebook group. Remember the complaints the women
Speaker 5: had about the vendor who they say was selling them
Speaker 5: rotten food for their family visits and had no option
Speaker 5: but to buy from him. It's been over a month
Speaker 5: at this point since they started mobilizing around it.
Speaker 4: We got the FDA and the Health Department and other
Speaker 4: agencies involved to get his business license and to find
Speaker 4: out that he's not even the owner. That another gentleman
Speaker 4: is an owner of Donovan Cafe. But they were under
Speaker 4: investigation because of all the allegations that the families made.
Speaker 5: The women flagged over thirty complaints that families had been
Speaker 5: posting in the Facebook group over the last year and
Speaker 5: a half and sent them to CDCR. The women also
Speaker 5: called the California Department of Tax and Fee Administration and
Speaker 5: found out that the vendor didn't have a seller's permit.
Speaker 4: Now he can't sell to the families anymore because he
Speaker 4: doesn't have a seller's permit and he's only contracted to
Speaker 4: sell to the staff.
Speaker 5: We've tried to figure out who's responsible for vetting and
Speaker 5: approving the food vendor, but it's complicated. There are several
Speaker 5: state agencies and intermediaries involved. In this case, it was
Speaker 5: the Department of Rehabilitation, which is different from the Department
Speaker 5: of Corrections, who hired the food vendor to run Donovan's cafe.
Speaker 5: We were able to look at an agreement with the
Speaker 5: food vendor signed in two thousand and seven, where there
Speaker 5: signatures from both the Department of Rehabilitation and the Department
Speaker 5: of Corrections. We reached out to the food vendor for comment,
Speaker 5: but he referred us to the Department of correct or
Speaker 5: CDCR for any questions. We reached out to CDCR to
Speaker 5: ask who authorized the food vendor to sell fresh food
Speaker 5: to the families for their overnight visits, but they didn't
Speaker 5: provide any specific answers. They did confirm that the vendor
Speaker 5: has not provided any services to the incarcerated population or
Speaker 5: visitors since February twenty twenty three, that's the month when
Speaker 5: I accompanied Mary to the prison. In any case, it
Speaker 5: wasn't until the women investigated on their own and found
Speaker 5: out that the vendor wasn't allowed to sell fresh food
Speaker 5: to families for their overnight visits.
Speaker 3: That state agencies finally took action.
Speaker 4: So this is the exit to get off to go
Speaker 4: to the prison.
Speaker 5: On the left side of the freeway. There are two
Speaker 5: big Amazon warehouses behind them. Some impressive dark green mountains
Speaker 5: contrasts with the dry plains were driving on.
Speaker 6: Also, it's super close to the border.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, Donovan is literally an exit away from the border.
Speaker 5: A group of concrete cubes emerges on the yellow plane,
Speaker 5: all circled with bart wire. They're all two stories high,
Speaker 5: their windows long and unnecessarily narrow, like slacks on a
Speaker 5: wood floor.
Speaker 4: It just seems like I've been driving all day.
Speaker 5: Two hours after leaving Pomona, we have arrived at RJ.
Speaker 5: Donovan Correctional Facility in San Diego. We're inside the car
Speaker 5: approaching the entrance cabin where a guard is standing. Recording
Speaker 5: isn't allowed on the premises.
Speaker 6: You had to put your microphone only. Yeah, this is yard.
Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA. We find out how Merry
Speaker 2: and Yvette's visits with their husbands went, and during that visit,
Speaker 2: women get some unexpected news from the prison. Stay with us,
Speaker 2: not say bye, yes, hey, we're back. Before the break,
Speaker 2: we were in the car driving with Mary Estrada and
Speaker 2: Yvette Carrion on their way to RJ. Donovan. That's the
Speaker 2: prison in San Diego where their husbands are incarcerated. We
Speaker 2: also learned about how Mary, Yvette and other women mobilized
Speaker 2: to complain about the food vendor who was serving for
Speaker 2: the family visits. They say this person was selling them
Speaker 2: rotten food. But will California's Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation
Speaker 2: take any action in response? Latino Usay Senior producer Marta
Speaker 2: Martinez is going to pick up the story from here.
Speaker 5: The castle of old feeling concrete cubes is not a
Speaker 5: welcoming place.
Speaker 3: Everything is gray and covered in barbed wire.
Speaker 5: In front of the big concrete cubes, in the middle
Speaker 5: of the bear and sand, there's another rectangular structure. This
Speaker 5: one has only one floor and its gable roof makes
Speaker 5: it feel a little bit more like a home, if.
Speaker 3: That's possible in the middle of so much barbed wire.
Speaker 5: These smaller houses have two regular windows and two doors.
Speaker 5: That's where the family visits take place. Both Mary and
Speaker 5: Vette will be spending two days each inside one of
Speaker 5: these concrete rectangles next month. It's almost nine am when
Speaker 5: we pass by the entrance. Five women and one child
Speaker 5: are lined up waiting to get in for their visits.
Speaker 5: Donovan didn't allow me to go inside the prison because
Speaker 5: I wasn't an approved visitor and recording audio isn't allowed
Speaker 5: inside the prison anyway, So I waited for Mary and
Speaker 5: divette at a nearby cafe. Okay, more than four hours later,
Speaker 5: past one thirty pm, I jump back into Mary's car
Speaker 5: and just to hear about how their visits went. Don't
Speaker 5: definitely know, but Mary is already on a call with
Speaker 5: the women from the Food Committee. While Mary and Dyvett
Speaker 5: were inside visiting their husbands, Archie Donovan issued a new
Speaker 5: food menu for family visits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I got it.
Speaker 4: That'll stop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, orange juice, I've filled one of.
Speaker 5: Beverages since the previous vendor can't sell food to families
Speaker 5: anymore because the women's complaints revealed that he didn't have
Speaker 5: a permit. Now Donovan has come up with a new menu,
Speaker 5: a very limited one.
Speaker 6: Or they had like frozen baged chicken tenders and stuff
Speaker 6: like that.
Speaker 5: The new menu only has five items families can purchase
Speaker 5: for their two days days. Bananas a twenty five cents apiece,
Speaker 5: apples at fifty cents each, greenmel peppers at fifty cents apiece,
Speaker 5: bag salad for five dollars, and eggs six dollars for
Speaker 5: a dozen. That's all the fresh food families can eat
Speaker 5: for two days. According to cdcr's Operations Manual, each facility
Speaker 5: must provide at least five breakfast, five lunch, and five
Speaker 5: dinner and trees, as well as bottled water, milk, and soda.
Speaker 4: But we need to sit down with Donovan to discuss
Speaker 4: the prices and also the selections. And we can't throw
Speaker 4: out a lot of stuff out there because they're going
Speaker 4: to reject it.
Speaker 3: It's clear who the leader is.
Speaker 5: Mary jokes about how much officers that Donovan love her.
Speaker 6: I love you because you're.
Speaker 4: Like, oh cut it out. Stop. Well, I'm glad that
Speaker 4: you guys were working while we weren't visiting.
Speaker 6: You guys are busy all the time.
Speaker 4: It never ends.
Speaker 5: We park out a Mexican restaurant and the women discuss
Speaker 5: their plan for a few more minutes.
Speaker 3: But it's past two pm and we're all hungry.
Speaker 4: Can we call you guys back in about an hour
Speaker 4: and a half because we're going to eat. I guess
Speaker 4: you're trying to get ready enjoying AH.
Speaker 5: The women are very upset about the new food menu
Speaker 5: and how limited it is. Mary worries about the families
Speaker 5: who don't have doctor's notes like she does, and who
Speaker 5: now might have fewer fresh food options than they did before.
Speaker 5: This is an unexpected consequence of their advocacy, but Mary
Speaker 5: still thinks they did the right thing by exposing the vendor.
Speaker 5: They've been fighting for what they think is right to
Speaker 5: be treated with dignity, and now maybe some families will
Speaker 5: have it worse or will get more doctor's notes. It
Speaker 5: seems that whatever the women are fighting to improve at Donovan,
Speaker 5: the outcome is never what they envisioned. So they pick
Speaker 5: up the next fight with a prison system that punishes
Speaker 5: them too, and it's exhausting. A couple hours later, around
Speaker 5: five pm, Mary, Yvette and I head back to the car.
Speaker 5: We still have a nearly two hour drive ahead of us.
Speaker 5: I can tell Mary and Tifet are tired, so am I.
Speaker 4: So tell me Mary how Little Visico this morning was
Speaker 4: hard and processing because they delayed me forty minutes. But
Speaker 4: other than that, after I got to the visiting yard,
Speaker 4: it was good. After seeing my husband, I always enjoyed
Speaker 4: my visits with him when he's behaving, and I got
Speaker 4: sick because I really don't like the food there, so
Speaker 4: my sugar was dropping, so I had to eat chocolate
Speaker 4: to bring it back up. But other than that, it
Speaker 4: was really great. We talked about our family visit, what
Speaker 4: I was going to order for our food, and we
Speaker 4: talked about the job that he was working so hard
Speaker 4: to get and didn't get.
Speaker 5: Robert had applied for a janitorial job at the prison hospital.
Speaker 4: So he was disappointed and kind of hurt with that,
Speaker 4: but I told him that I was still proud of
Speaker 4: him for trying. And then we talked about our grandkids
Speaker 4: and how he wants to see them, so I said
Speaker 4: in the summer and they'll come, And then we talked
Speaker 4: about Yvette and her husband and that was about it.
Speaker 6: So you bet, can you tell me about how you're
Speaker 6: visit From.
Speaker 7: In the beginning, it was bad because I waited for
Speaker 7: an hour for him to come out, and then when
Speaker 7: he did, I was just so upset, so I wasted
Speaker 7: another like twenty thirty minutes just be mad at him
Speaker 7: and arguing with him instead of enjoying my visit. So
Speaker 7: he decided to wait last minute to take a shower,
Speaker 7: And I think I need to be more understanding because
Speaker 7: he does really have ocdu when it comes to his hygiene.
Speaker 6: Well, not to make foot him, but always tell me he's.
Speaker 7: Conceited because he will not come out un ass his
Speaker 7: clothes or iron and his hair is cut and comb
Speaker 7: instead of just coming out and joying the visit, he
Speaker 7: has to make sure he is like picture ready.
Speaker 6: I guess I don't know, and that's not what you're
Speaker 6: care about.
Speaker 7: No, but he is even if my shoes are dirty.
Speaker 4: He gets mad.
Speaker 7: Sometimes I feel like he's just so comfortable now that
Speaker 7: we're married. Sometimes I just feel like he just doesn't
Speaker 7: value my effort in my time. Sometimes, like I get it,
Speaker 7: he cares about his looks and all that, but at
Speaker 7: the same time, we only get limited hours to be
Speaker 7: together during visits, so I just feel like they shouldn't
Speaker 7: be wasted, and I feel like sometimes he just takes
Speaker 7: that for granted, and I think.
Speaker 6: That's pretty selfish today, Yes I did.
Speaker 7: I think he's say that I need to be more
Speaker 7: understanding that he can't control everything, and he's always reminding
Speaker 7: me that he's in prison and there's rules and they
Speaker 7: don't get to just do whatever they want when they want.
Speaker 7: But then he apologized, and then I apologized, and we
Speaker 7: finished our visit really good, just sitting there and talking
Speaker 7: about our upcoming family visit.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna work on being.
Speaker 7: More understanding and patient, because I know sometimes I could
Speaker 7: be impatient as well.
Speaker 8: Well.
Speaker 5: It's hard for me to understand these women's unwavering commitment.
Speaker 3: I tell them, I don't think a lot of people
Speaker 3: could do it. They're also very.
Speaker 5: Open about their frustrations with their husbands, yet here they
Speaker 5: are most weekends.
Speaker 6: It's a big commitment.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is very good.
Speaker 6: So why keep doing that? Why keep coming? Why keep
Speaker 6: taking care of him?
Speaker 4: Because I love him?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm in love with him, so I don't mind
Speaker 7: doing it. We can't help we love, and yes, like
Speaker 7: our loved ones had made mistakes, but people do change,
Speaker 7: and not everyone in those walls are bad people. They're human,
Speaker 7: just like us, and everyone makes mistakes.
Speaker 5: Mary hents me a photo she took with Robert in
Speaker 5: the morning during her visit. Robert is in a light
Speaker 5: blue T shirt and navy blue pants with the letters
Speaker 5: C DCR in yellow across his right leg. He statooed
Speaker 5: arm holding Mary's and hers grubbing his shirt.
Speaker 4: We took two pictures. He kept the ugly one. I
Speaker 4: kept the one that I thought was that I looked goods.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 4: You have the same post as like all the said, Yeah,
Speaker 4: that's those are the only poses we have. I try
Speaker 4: to do more, and it's just like, should do one
Speaker 4: of those site by Yeah. He doesn't want to because
Speaker 4: he's too fat and I'm too fat, And I told
Speaker 4: him it's okay. We'll look like a double zero.
Speaker 5: When she gets home, Mary's gonna place the photo in
Speaker 5: one of her many albums that is also part of
Speaker 5: her ritual. Both Mary and Davette are already planning and
Speaker 5: saving for their family visit next month. They'll be spending
Speaker 5: two days and two nights inside Donovan Prison, on the
Speaker 5: other side of the barbed wire. I tell them that
Speaker 5: in a way, even when they're out here, it's like
Speaker 5: they're in prison too.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah. When I fight with my husband, oh my god,
Speaker 4: I tell him, you think you're the fucking only one
Speaker 4: doing this damn journey I said, I'm the one incarcerated
Speaker 4: with the financial burdens. You have it easy, and he
Speaker 4: gets all quiet because he knows it's true.
Speaker 5: It's Sunday evenings, so traffic is getting heavier on the
Speaker 5: never ending freeway. Mary decides to take a shortcut and
Speaker 5: drives through some secondary roads and then about an hour
Speaker 5: later we arrive at the wall or parking lot to
Speaker 5: drop off your bed.
Speaker 4: See, and your car is still hear you bet and Mary,
Speaker 4: we gotta like really to protest because yes.
Speaker 7: They're anning already. Ye, any bananas and put peper and eggs.
Speaker 4: That's hilarious. I was like, oh, be careful fire. See,
Speaker 4: we left in the dark and we're coming back in
Speaker 4: the dark. Yeah, that's free.
Speaker 5: As the sky turns dark and the traffic gets heavier,
Speaker 5: the freeway becomes a strip of dancing white and red lights.
Speaker 5: Mary's face melts into the night as she drives, and
Speaker 5: then it gets illuminated again by the phone screen hanging
Speaker 5: below the rear mirror. The faces of three women appear
Speaker 5: on the screen. It's another impromptu meeting of the food committee.
Speaker 6: What menu po sounds like diarrhea, eggs and lettuce.
Speaker 5: The conversation makes the long journey back home more palatable.
Speaker 5: The questions for Mary keep coming, but so do the laughs,
Speaker 5: and there's also a sense of community. They're not doing
Speaker 5: this journey alone. Mary has found her calling. Mary says
Speaker 5: she's very proud of the women in her committee. It's
Speaker 5: the best committee she's ever had. The women are smart and.
Speaker 4: Fearce Virginia, Jen Jasmine, Lisa yve at Wanaka. You know,
Speaker 4: they're all strong and they believe in the fight, and
Speaker 4: that's what I need. I can't fight for everybody. They
Speaker 4: have to fight for themselves and for their loved ones.
Speaker 4: And it's hard to come across women that are one
Speaker 4: hundred percent and the prison life the majority of the
Speaker 4: visitors are women that I had a conversation with my
Speaker 4: husband about that two weeks ago because he pissed me
Speaker 4: off and I told him, I've had to put my
Speaker 4: life on hold all these years, so when is it
Speaker 4: going to be my chrain to live? And his answer
Speaker 4: to me was, well, you knew what you were getting
Speaker 4: yourself into, which was a cheap shot. And I told him,
Speaker 4: you know, I don't have to be here. I choose
Speaker 4: to be here because I love you. But let's not
Speaker 4: get it twisted. Keep pushing me, and you can do
Speaker 4: your journey by yourself. This is all I really know
Speaker 4: is how to be a prison wife, how to advocate
Speaker 4: for your rights. But as to having another relationship, I
Speaker 4: wouldn't even know how to deal with that, and I
Speaker 4: don't want to.
Speaker 5: At the end of the cul de sac, we finally
Speaker 5: see Mary's house with its well kept long It's almost
Speaker 5: seven pm. It's been more than twelve hours since we
Speaker 5: started this journey.
Speaker 4: Oh, it's good to be home. Yeah I made it. Yes,
Speaker 4: Oh thank god.
Speaker 5: Once Mary gets inside, she's going to have to make
Speaker 5: more calls, answer more messages from her Facebook group, and
Speaker 5: then hopefully Robert will call to say good night. Luckily,
Speaker 5: tomorrow is President's Day, so she'll be able to rest
Speaker 5: a bit, but most weekends she won't be able to
Speaker 5: do that.
Speaker 3: She'll just go straight back to work, back to her
Speaker 3: other life.
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Marta Martinez. He was edited
Speaker 2: by Daisy Contreras. It was mixed by Stephanie Lebo and
Speaker 2: Julia Caruso. Fact checking for this episode by Monica Morales Arcia.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Sophia Mihias Pasco, Annie Nissensen and Julieta Martinelli.
Speaker 2: The Latino USA team includes andrelro Pez Cruzado, Mike Sargent,
Speaker 2: Victoria Strada, and Renaldo Leanos Junior. We had helped from
Speaker 2: Lori mar Marquez and raul Perezinojosa, additional engineering support by
Speaker 2: Gabriel A Baez and JJ Carubin. Our marketing manager is
Speaker 2: Luis Luna. Our theme music was composed by Senior Robinos.
Speaker 2: I'm your host and executive producer Marieno Josa. Join us
Speaker 2: again on our next episode. In the meantime, look for
Speaker 2: us on all of your social media. I'll be sure
Speaker 2: to see you there, and remember, don't go anywhere but
Speaker 2: by yes bye.
Speaker 9: Latino USA is made possible in part by Public Welfare Foundation,
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Speaker 9: and racially just. California Endowment building a strong state by
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Speaker 5: Hello, Robert and Mary, what I do right now?
Speaker 3: Name and number?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 8: Let me baby, let me too go bye,