Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal hell that.
Speaker 2: For me, I'm a man, I'm forty.
Speaker 3: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
Speaker 3: be happy. You want to be happy for a day?
Speaker 2: Da steak? Is that woo woom?
Speaker 1: And Dan and Tye, welcome back to the solid verbal
Speaker 1: boys and girls. My name is ty hilden Brandt. That
Speaker 1: fine gentleman over there, the so called monster of the Midway,
Speaker 1: Dan Rubinstein in the heart of the Midwest, Chicago, Illinois, Sir,
Speaker 1: how are you?
Speaker 3: I'm terrific, Ty, I'm terrific. There's no rain, there's no snow,
Speaker 3: there's nothing happening. I had a nice weekend, had a
Speaker 3: good pizza bake, yes, Shay go, and to make some
Speaker 3: more today, which is always always fun for me. So
Speaker 3: this is so. We're doing an NFL Draft show today. Yes,
Speaker 3: and as always we're driven by Geico. Yes, Convermi, you
Speaker 3: are driven by our friends of Geico. Yes, yes, Okay,
Speaker 3: just wanted to make sure because I'm I'm feeling like
Speaker 3: the wind in my hair as we drive down the
Speaker 3: content road here. That's right. I love the NFL Draft.
Speaker 3: I basically watch no NFL games before the before the playoffs,
Speaker 3: just because life is so busy, and work is so
Speaker 3: busy doing soliverbal and college football things during the fall
Speaker 3: time on the weekends. But I love the NFL Draft.
Speaker 3: I love the strategy of it. I love taking players
Speaker 3: that we watched a ton of in college and seeing
Speaker 3: how another group of people evaluate what their futures and
Speaker 3: how good they are or were or seemed but warrant
Speaker 3: or didn't seem but are those kinds of things and love.
Speaker 3: I love the mechanics of the NFL Draft, And that's
Speaker 3: why I'm especially excited because this is a first time
Speaker 3: guest that we're having on today, Nate Tice from the
Speaker 3: Athletic I love all of the brains that go into it,
Speaker 3: and it's such an inexact science. There's so much guesswork
Speaker 3: to it, but I think that's what makes it incredibly
Speaker 3: fun and interesting. Oh, I'm quite excited for today's show.
Speaker 1: It is also the hardest sporting event to convince your
Speaker 1: spouse and or significant other to like watch, Yeah, because
Speaker 1: when you describe to them what it is, HM, you're
Speaker 1: gonna wait fifteen minutes, ten minutes in between picks and
Speaker 1: they're going to call someone to a podium and in
Speaker 1: between it's all filler, Dan m hm. And it goes
Speaker 1: on for hours, three days, yes, four days, however long
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah, three yeah. This is where we're at
Speaker 1: with the NFL Draft. But I love it too.
Speaker 3: It's awesome.
Speaker 1: It is great. It is one of those points of
Speaker 1: overlap between college and pro. If you're a college fan,
Speaker 1: you want to see how your favorite college stars do,
Speaker 1: where they get drafted, how they translate to the next level.
Speaker 1: If you're an NFL fan, in a lot of cases,
Speaker 1: it may be your introduction into the previous year of
Speaker 1: college football. Right you don't you watch it, but you
Speaker 1: care about who your team's gonna get. You start reading
Speaker 1: up on these guys looking back to see how they
Speaker 1: did in college. So one of those cool moments for
Speaker 1: us where we get to talk to NFL people. Talk
Speaker 1: to Robert Mays of The Athletic Football Show. Last year,
Speaker 1: we're talking to his co host, Nate Tice. Don't forget
Speaker 1: Verballers dot Com is where you can go if you
Speaker 1: want to get access to this show, all our shows.
Speaker 1: A little bit early. We've got bonus content out there
Speaker 1: as well. A discord server that continues to pop off
Speaker 1: in these deep, dark, cold days of the college football offseason.
Speaker 1: You can also go on out there and listen to
Speaker 1: our limited run of Extra Nuggets, the show that my
Speaker 1: beloved co host d Andrew is with longtime friend of
Speaker 1: the show and voice of the Chicago Bulls Adam.
Speaker 3: Ameme, center around Jeopardy correct responses with additional context verballers
Speaker 3: dot com one verballers dot com. He has v E
Speaker 3: R B A L L E r s dot com.
Speaker 3: And also, I know we've been reminding.
Speaker 1: Folks, but Solid Giveaway dot Com is where you can
Speaker 1: go and through your name in the hat if you
Speaker 1: want to win an AJ Brown signed ole miss any
Speaker 1: helmet you've got Until April the twenty third, it's about
Speaker 1: two more weeks before we draw the winner and then
Speaker 1: we'll do it all over again with somebody different. But
Speaker 1: AJ Brown is up for the drawing. Now you're name
Speaker 1: in the hat.
Speaker 3: Yeah. In the college football universe, before we get into
Speaker 3: to Nate and all sorts of draft things, there have
Speaker 3: been spring games. I don't know if you watched any
Speaker 3: highlights news anything. I saw Clemson there were a lot
Speaker 3: of struggles, but maybe it's because they have such strong
Speaker 3: defensive linemen. I don't know. I watched some clips of.
Speaker 1: Michigan Club nick Man, my boy, your guy, my boy.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I didn't see a terrible amount of news regarding
Speaker 3: spring game stuff outside of that, but we do absolutely
Speaker 3: need to mention Dwayne Haskins. Dwayne Haskins, the tragedy twenty four,
Speaker 3: twenty four years old, and just those who spent significant
Speaker 3: around time around Dwayne Haskins. Obviously, we watched him from
Speaker 3: Afar and were thrilled to see how prolific a player
Speaker 3: and successful a player he was at Ohio State and
Speaker 3: his brief time as a starting quarterback there. But you
Speaker 3: read the stories and the experiences of the people who
Speaker 3: spend a lot of time around him, and it's just
Speaker 3: absolutely heartbreaking to lose somebody like that who had so
Speaker 3: much meaning, well so much meaning for so many people.
Speaker 3: And so it's just just a brutal bit of news
Speaker 3: from over the weekend.
Speaker 1: Absolutely devastating to hear that news. I sent it to
Speaker 1: you and I saw it.
Speaker 3: We were both bored. So yeah, and especially painful reminder,
Speaker 3: as you know, we're talking about draft stuff, and we're
Speaker 3: talking about, you know, the strengths and weaknesses of a
Speaker 3: player or of a program, or like talking about humans.
Speaker 3: We're talking about human beings who are doing their absolute
Speaker 3: best to further their place professionally. But man just gutted
Speaker 3: to see what happened.
Speaker 1: Well, on that tragic note, Dan, we will segue here
Speaker 1: to the topic dujor on the show. Yes, it is
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft. It is Nat Tice. I don't know, like,
Speaker 1: do you have any preference when it comes to the
Speaker 1: NFL Draft with respect to the guys that you like,
Speaker 1: Because I've talked about this before on our show. I
Speaker 1: am a sucker for pretty much every wide receiver. Yeah,
Speaker 1: every wide receiver, every standout wide receiver that's ever come
Speaker 1: out of college. I have been utterly convinced that they're
Speaker 1: going to pop at the next level, to the extent
Speaker 1: where I'm playing in fantasy football leagues, dynasty leagues where
Speaker 1: you're required to draft some of these young draft prospects,
Speaker 1: and I pick them all and most of them never pop.
Speaker 1: I got Tyler Lockett, right, it took them a little
Speaker 1: bit to get there. I've gotten a couple other guy.
Speaker 1: I got Odell Beckham, right, I've gotten a couple guys
Speaker 1: right along the way.
Speaker 3: What a brave stand you took.
Speaker 1: But player exactly like, you're not going to confuse me
Speaker 1: with Nate Tice, who actually knows what he's looking at.
Speaker 1: Do you have any guys like that or any position
Speaker 1: groups like that where you're just hook line and sinker
Speaker 1: for whoever the names are in that given year.
Speaker 3: I'm always rooting for not just the players, but the destinations.
Speaker 3: For the Swiss Army knife speed types d Anthony Thomas,
Speaker 3: Tyreek Hill, Percy Harvin, most recently Deebo Samuel who landed
Speaker 3: in the absolute perfect system and situation Taevon Austin. Guys
Speaker 3: who are just so fast and so talented and so
Speaker 3: good with the ball. They're not a pure receiver, they're
Speaker 3: not a pure running back, they're not a flanker per se.
Speaker 3: They're not an outside guy per se. Where they're the
Speaker 3: sort of at best that interchangeable talent that is lightning
Speaker 3: in a bottle, but at worst they end up somewhere
Speaker 3: that tries to put the circle in the square peg.
Speaker 3: So I'm always rooting for those guys who are inside
Speaker 3: outside players who have that ability to land somewhere that
Speaker 3: sees the beauty in their specific talents. That's what I
Speaker 3: root for. Shall we dive right in I'm ready.
Speaker 1: Let's do it already Dan joining us now from the
Speaker 1: Athletic The Athletic Football Show with our friend Robert Mays,
Speaker 1: who actually did this interview with us a year ago.
Speaker 1: Please to welcome Nate Tice to the Solid Verbals. Sir,
Speaker 1: how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm doing well? Yeah? Now you got both of us.
Speaker 2: That's good. Complete completely the set. Now you need Lindsey
Speaker 2: Jones and Chokapatia if you work.
Speaker 1: Our way, yeah, work away through the mount rushmore.
Speaker 2: So. Yeah, you did the reverse Mortal Kombat. You started
Speaker 2: with Shao Khan. Whoa. Now you're on the goro. I
Speaker 2: guess I'm goro.
Speaker 3: That's true, a natural goro. Yeah, Tice, we'll use that.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. No, thanks for having me all guys,
Speaker 2: this is perfect. I know our appre show. I feel
Speaker 2: like I've used up all my good bits. So I
Speaker 2: have a couple more.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if we can harvest those yeahs as we go
Speaker 1: through here. So look, how how are you right? You've
Speaker 1: been intimately involved with all things football for a good
Speaker 1: long time now, you know, sort of in this role
Speaker 1: now with the Athletic you're making the rest of us smarter,
Speaker 1: and that's why we wanted to bring you on because
Speaker 1: the NFL Draft happens a few weeks from now. The
Speaker 1: draft is one of those points of intersect between college
Speaker 1: football fans, hardcore college football fans, and the NFL, and
Speaker 1: there's always that gray area, right, like the translation from
Speaker 1: college to pro. How have you been spending your time
Speaker 1: now as you're trying to suss out the NFL draft,
Speaker 1: Like what can you give us a sense for what
Speaker 1: that looks like for you as you're evaluating talent?
Speaker 2: Yeah, right now, it's kind of the calm period, which
Speaker 2: is kind of funny. The closer it gets, the callmber
Speaker 2: it gets. But I would say when I'm starting out
Speaker 2: and this is this is my first year doing this
Speaker 2: on the media side, where during the season I'm covering
Speaker 2: the NFL stuff with Robert doing the shows right and
Speaker 2: stuff up, you know what I see, and then also
Speaker 2: having to keep tabs on college guys. So this is
Speaker 2: my first experience to doing this stuff from the media world,
Speaker 2: and really you're just starting out, Okay, who are the
Speaker 2: draft eligible guys and going like, okay, all right, who
Speaker 2: are your seniors? And now that's actually becoming even dicier.
Speaker 2: That's what actually went through this year with all the
Speaker 2: COVID stuff and everybody getting those extra years. How how
Speaker 2: teams listed their guys on websites was all inconsistent. Already
Speaker 2: Notre Dame and Stanford do something screwy because they don't
Speaker 2: say red shirt and stuff. So that always is like,
Speaker 2: oh God, and now we got the COVID year. And
Speaker 2: so you got like this guy Tyler Algiere from from BYU.
Speaker 2: There was one side that had him as a sophomore,
Speaker 2: one side had him as junior, one side had him
Speaker 2: as a redcher at senior, and like it was just like, okay,
Speaker 2: what are you? But that's just part of the fun.
Speaker 2: But figuring all these out, you're really hoping for these
Speaker 2: guys to pop. You know of some guys like before
Speaker 2: going into this year, I knew who John Matchi was.
Speaker 2: I know who he is. I've watched DeVante Smith, I
Speaker 2: watched Jerry Judy. But like a guy like James and
Speaker 2: Williams just stepping up out of nowhere. That's what's fun.
Speaker 2: Like with the scouting processes, these guys pops, it's the
Speaker 2: Joe Burrows come out of nowhere. Then. But then there's
Speaker 2: guys that you've heard about for years and years and years,
Speaker 2: the Thibadeau's of the world that you know about since
Speaker 2: senior year of high school. And so that's what's fun
Speaker 2: about scouting is that just getting to like see these
Speaker 2: guys reveal themselves and once I really like to wait
Speaker 2: until about the December or so, like to really get
Speaker 2: a feel for these guys when you have a full
Speaker 2: season of tape and you're trying to watch these guys
Speaker 2: against the best competition. I also like to watch these
Speaker 2: guys against maybe lesser competition to see them actually dominate,
Speaker 2: like see like, hey, in perfect circumstances, what did you do?
Speaker 2: Like how did you do it? As well as the
Speaker 2: big games you know against when they go against the
Speaker 2: Alabamas into Georgia's and the Ohio States of the world.
Speaker 2: But really long winded answer to say, scouting is just
Speaker 2: letting it wash over you and just hoping that someone
Speaker 2: pops and then you're just like okay, or that guy's notable,
Speaker 2: and then checking the lists to see, you know, other
Speaker 2: people are seeing the same thing.
Speaker 1: Nate, you mentioned guys that come out of nowhere. I
Speaker 1: want to bring up Kenny Pickett for a second if
Speaker 1: I could, I know in some of the analysis you've done.
Speaker 1: You have some commentary about his progressions, how he needs
Speaker 1: to develop on that front. Obviously, the talking point going
Speaker 1: into the draft and after the combine has been the
Speaker 1: eight and a half inch hands, which another data point.
Speaker 1: But you hit on something with the guys who come
Speaker 1: out of nowhere that I've always thought, and I'm not
Speaker 1: an analyst, I'm not a scout, but my untrained eye
Speaker 1: is always a little bit concerned when a guy like
Speaker 1: a Kenny Pickett has just a meteoric rise in the
Speaker 1: course of one season. Kenny Pickett threw more touchdowns this
Speaker 1: past season than he had in the previous three combined.
Speaker 1: It was an incredible year by any stretch. But I
Speaker 1: always worry that guys like that are fools gold. Now counterpoint,
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow not fools gold, and he fits a similar template.
Speaker 1: But give us your sense of Kenny Pickett. How worried
Speaker 1: should folks be? How high should he go on draft Day?
Speaker 1: What is his status as a pro quarterback moving forward?
Speaker 2: Yeah, with Picket is and people are compared these two
Speaker 2: is Burrow and Pickett just because of that meteoric rise.
Speaker 2: A lot of this is going into process and going
Speaker 2: what they do as a snap's going pre and post snap,
Speaker 2: so just discerning what the defense is, if they have
Speaker 2: any protection stuff, and then after snap, seeing where their
Speaker 2: eyes go. And why I'm bringing that up is even
Speaker 2: before Burrow's huge year, I I I'm not gonna say
Speaker 2: like I have heard a Burrow before that big year,
Speaker 2: but when you would watch him and then watch the
Speaker 2: previous season before he blew up, you could still see
Speaker 2: some of the processing stuff. You could still see some
Speaker 2: of the flashes of going, okay, you get it, like
Speaker 2: you get how to play the quarterback position. The offense
Speaker 2: wasn't great. You weren't great either, but you at least, like,
Speaker 2: you know, you looked like a Day three pick. Like
Speaker 2: at the time he really looked like a fifth, sixth,
Speaker 2: seventh rounder type. And then he just exploded that now
Speaker 2: we're all gonna know who Joe Burrow is for the
Speaker 2: rest of our lives. With Pickett is yes, all he
Speaker 2: is an older prospect and all that, And why I
Speaker 2: bring that up is that is what's more than more
Speaker 2: than the hand size, more than any of that stuff
Speaker 2: is for a guy that's an older guy in an
Speaker 2: offense that he's been in before, he doesn't really stand
Speaker 2: the pocket and process how I thought he would. I
Speaker 2: thought he would be a one to two to three
Speaker 2: to four machine, just a vet, you know, just sitting
Speaker 2: in there knifing and you know, dicing guys up from
Speaker 2: the pocket. And really he's a one and done guy,
Speaker 2: which is also his strength. And when I mean one
Speaker 2: and done, it's I'm going to read a that's not
Speaker 2: open scramble time. Let's make go make a play happen.
Speaker 2: And that's his best asset is he can create, which
Speaker 2: is needed at the quarterback position in the NFL. Now,
Speaker 2: you can't just be a bled cell. You can't be
Speaker 2: just you can be Tom Brady, but you also need
Speaker 2: about ten years of experience to get to that level
Speaker 2: of sitting in the pocket and not creating with your legs.
Speaker 2: You need to be able to create, especially early in
Speaker 2: your career so you can get the mental reps. So
Speaker 2: the fact that he's a guy that's been an offense
Speaker 2: for years, for a couple of years, he's an older prospect,
Speaker 2: he's going against less younger guys, and the fact that
Speaker 2: he's still mentally is more like a one and done
Speaker 2: freshman sophomore type. That's that's my cost for concern with him.
Speaker 2: I have him as a late second early third round
Speaker 2: grade I and this is not like it's kind of
Speaker 2: a joke, but I don't mean it to be about
Speaker 2: compared with Tyra Hanikey from Washington and the fact that
Speaker 2: I think he's a better version of that and how
Speaker 2: Picket wins. How all these guys you have to figure
Speaker 2: out how they win, and how Picket wins is creation
Speaker 2: and accuracy, and if his mental process is from the pocket,
Speaker 2: he can get to a system. It's a little more
Speaker 2: patient with him. I think he needs more time than
Speaker 2: people realize. I think people are like, oh, plug and play,
Speaker 2: he's pro ready. I think he still needs some time
Speaker 2: as far as mentally to like calm himself down in
Speaker 2: the pocket and really like process from there.
Speaker 1: You've also made a similar comment about Matt Corral from
Speaker 1: Olbyss and Sam Howell from North Carolina. Now different context.
Speaker 1: I think you focus in a little bit more on
Speaker 1: the systems that Corral and how have run, But the
Speaker 1: criticism is sort of in the same vein with regard
Speaker 1: to processing. When you get to this stage in your career, Nate,
Speaker 1: I mean, you obviously are pretty familiar with the NFL
Speaker 1: and how things work on that level. Can you coach
Speaker 1: a guy up to the point where that processing gets
Speaker 1: to where it needs to be, where the read progression
Speaker 1: can get to where it needs to be, or is
Speaker 1: the concern that it's too little, too late at this point?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can, and that's why it's a guy. I'm
Speaker 2: going to tire all both sides of my mouth. You can.
Speaker 2: But the thing is, it takes time. And also you
Speaker 2: want to see the flashes of it when they're in college,
Speaker 2: because then it's a it's a can or won't thing?
Speaker 2: A right are they doing that? Because you can't do
Speaker 2: it or you won't do it? We can teach it
Speaker 2: into you, you know, like it's that's what you're trying
Speaker 2: to figure out. Like that's why so at corral Is
Speaker 2: lane Kiff and I have seen run various versions of offense,
Speaker 2: r PO heavy pro style mix in pistol, like just
Speaker 2: a little bit of everything. He changes it up all
Speaker 2: the time, seeing him in situations where the quarterback is
Speaker 2: usually has to be the most valuable guy at third
Speaker 2: and six, At third and seven, Hey, what's drop back
Speaker 2: and pass? And you have to find the right throw
Speaker 2: they Lane Kiffin would choose to just run like a
Speaker 2: QB counter, which just choose to run a screen. And
Speaker 2: that's where my red awords go off. And so that's
Speaker 2: why each guy a guy can come from an RPO
Speaker 2: heavy system. Matt Jones perfect example. Like everyone wants to
Speaker 2: think Alabama as his pro style, it's not his RPO's
Speaker 2: RPOs get his processing in. It was so it was magical.
Speaker 2: It was just how quick he went what you like,
Speaker 2: he would just in the ball, just go to the
Speaker 2: perfect spot every time. So that was one of those
Speaker 2: where it's like, Okay, you didn't run a lot of
Speaker 2: pro style stuff quote unquote pro style, but I think
Speaker 2: you can. I'm in make a bet that you can
Speaker 2: handle it. When you watch a Matt corral is, anytime
Speaker 2: he has to go one to two, they do run
Speaker 2: a drop back. It's like hold onto your hat. Sometimes
Speaker 2: he can do it. Sometimes it's all over the place.
Speaker 2: A lot of times he's looking to run. You never
Speaker 2: really want to see these guys. And both of these
Speaker 2: guys do a crow and howe is they look to
Speaker 2: run and pick it. They all look to run right away.
Speaker 2: And why that matters is you have to do damage
Speaker 2: from the pocket. You have to because defense is just
Speaker 2: too fast and good. You can't just keep scrambling. You're
Speaker 2: gonna get whacked over it and you just can't. It's
Speaker 2: a three yard game where you just took a shot
Speaker 2: and that's not worth it to the offense. Yes, using
Speaker 2: your legs on like a third down getting it is good,
Speaker 2: but not living that way, making a living that way.
Speaker 2: And so that's where my concerns with Carral and how
Speaker 2: Will come is that when they were asked to do
Speaker 2: the drop X stuff, it was it was a grab bag.
Speaker 2: There's no consistency to their game. And it's like, yes,
Speaker 2: you can get on these guys on the whiteboard and
Speaker 2: at the combine and go, okay, maybe they can handle it.
Speaker 2: But when you're seeing just maybe those three or four
Speaker 2: or five snaps a game and they can't really do
Speaker 2: it consistently, that's where you're concerned. Is that, Well, if
Speaker 2: they can't do it for five snaps, now I'm asking
Speaker 2: them doing it for fifteen twenty five snaps. That's that's
Speaker 2: a little scary.
Speaker 3: Every year, quarterback classes are basically always looked at as
Speaker 3: wild cards. You know, everybody's playing different competition, everybody's running
Speaker 3: different schemes, and everybody's going to enter into different situations.
Speaker 3: So if you are able to use your captain hindsight
Speaker 3: of the past three, four or five years and say, Okay,
Speaker 3: these were all wild cards. These guys kind of worked
Speaker 3: out and it wasn't obvious that they would, and these
Speaker 3: guys didn't and it seemed obvious that they would. What
Speaker 3: are there any lessons you can apply to the past three,
Speaker 3: four or five years of quarterback classes looking at this
Speaker 3: class who are like, Okay, I could see it working
Speaker 3: out even though this guy seems like, Man, I don't
Speaker 3: know if it's all. There are there examples that you
Speaker 3: can you can pull from your your memory banks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people will probably say
Speaker 2: Josh Allen because but Josh Allen is gonna be the
Speaker 2: outlier of all outliers in life. I'm not even just
Speaker 2: talking about football scouting. I'm talking about data points in life.
Speaker 2: Stocks like you want to compare to. That's what Josh,
Speaker 2: I mean anything a baseball card that also becomes you know,
Speaker 2: a Honus Wagner. No, I would say more is justin
Speaker 2: Herbert And that's where I've taken a ton of lessons
Speaker 2: from it. Actually really that whole class Burrow to and Herbert,
Speaker 2: because with Herbert it was there's he was the guy
Speaker 2: that more than anything, and I think I did an
Speaker 2: interview once where I was just like, I wish I
Speaker 2: could just talk with him and see how smart he is,
Speaker 2: because there's flashes of him handling it. But the offense
Speaker 2: he ran was the most basic, like passing game you'll
Speaker 2: ever see. Tons of sprintouts, tons of like just two
Speaker 2: man routes to receivers wearing like thirty eight and twenty seven.
Speaker 2: Like you never want to see a receiver wearing a
Speaker 2: thirty number. That is, that is not a good sign
Speaker 2: for your offense. So that is a big lesson I've learned.
Speaker 2: It was that he was playing with garbage skill guys,
Speaker 2: and I'm sorry if any of them became anything out.
Speaker 3: Of I'm an Oregon fan and a lot I can
Speaker 3: tell you it was extremely frustrating to watch that offense.
Speaker 2: It was, and even watching it at Herbert I was
Speaker 2: I would say it was high on Herbert, but I
Speaker 2: had like a fair first round great on him, I
Speaker 2: trust me. I was not expecting this, No one was.
Speaker 2: But I loved him in college. But then that was
Speaker 2: the thing when you're watching is that was the can
Speaker 2: or won't? Thing? Is that can you handle the harder stuff?
Speaker 2: Or is he just like this is just you know,
Speaker 2: like this is what they have to do to get
Speaker 2: an offense, a tangible offense, a whole bunch of OC's,
Speaker 2: you know, a whole bunch of changes. He was the
Speaker 2: steady presence and all that. Those are things I would
Speaker 2: have given more tips of the you know, feathers in
Speaker 2: his cap coming as a prospect and say the flip
Speaker 2: side Tua running all those RPOs. It turns out that's
Speaker 2: probably what he needs to run. And there's nothing against RPOs.
Speaker 2: Like every even in the NFL, you still have to
Speaker 2: have a sprinkling of them, but you just can't major
Speaker 2: in them. It's just defenses are just too good what
Speaker 2: they just are. But you can get once in a
Speaker 2: while sprinkle in a make it easy on your offense,
Speaker 2: but it's just really hard to major in them. And
Speaker 2: I think that's what I've learned from two is like
Speaker 2: we've given it a chance. The Dolphins gave it a
Speaker 2: chance to run that heavy RPO system. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's it's tangible in the NFL.
Speaker 3: Is there something you can glean from that because I've
Speaker 3: actually seen data points of like, okay, RPOs removed, this
Speaker 3: is what a quarterback does or can't do. Is there
Speaker 3: something you can take from like the ability to decide quickly,
Speaker 3: the ability to read a defense quickly, because that is
Speaker 3: what an RPO demands a quarterback do. Is there something
Speaker 3: that you can take from that element of I mean
Speaker 3: all of these guys have run it to a certain extent.
Speaker 3: Is something you can take from that?
Speaker 2: Yeah? And it's processing is did they make the give
Speaker 2: or take read properly? And that's really is they asked
Speaker 2: him to do this, Did he execute it properly or
Speaker 2: did he just pull it to call his own number?
Speaker 2: And they've just made it to a terrible situation. And
Speaker 2: also just trace wise accuracy. That's mac Row's best strength
Speaker 2: really is his how how quick of a trigger? He asked?
Speaker 2: Like how quick he It's like a shortstop. That's actually
Speaker 2: his biggest positive. And that's what you look at too.
Speaker 2: It's just like are you able to squeez in the
Speaker 2: tight spaces? Are you able to change arm angles? That's
Speaker 2: another skill that these guys have to have. Everything's not
Speaker 2: with drill work. You just catch it. Everything's perfect throw,
Speaker 2: you have to change it down below, over the top,
Speaker 2: put touch on it. So those are a little trait
Speaker 2: things that you look at for those.
Speaker 3: Is anything appear to you jump off the videotape as
Speaker 3: it were about practice time limitation right? That these guys
Speaker 3: are limited. I mean they can watch as much tape
Speaker 3: as they want to do. They can do walk through
Speaker 3: as they have summer throwing sessions, things of that nature.
Speaker 3: But you are limited as a college player that you
Speaker 3: can only practice so much. That you can look at
Speaker 3: a quarterback and say, man, it seems that by all accounts,
Speaker 3: he is very coachable. He is very eager to like
Speaker 3: grind it out on the practice field. But you can
Speaker 3: tell that for whatever reason, the system that they're running,
Speaker 3: as you mentioned with Justin Herbert for example, is pretty
Speaker 3: simplistic and is not asking a lot of him. Is
Speaker 3: there a guy in this year's quarterback class that you
Speaker 3: can say, I see the potential jumping off the page
Speaker 3: if he gets to the right.
Speaker 2: Place, Well, Malik Willis, That's yeah, that's the easy answer.
Speaker 2: I would say Desmond Ritter for this, But Desmond, I
Speaker 2: think is more of a he can go into a
Speaker 2: lot of systems and be okay in I think he
Speaker 2: can mentally handle that. I would saying Milik willis though,
Speaker 2: going to a system and just taking time it. Really
Speaker 2: I could see him kind of like fitting in in
Speaker 2: different like what you want to ask him, Boot game,
Speaker 2: sprint out game, a lot of you know, drop back,
Speaker 2: launched the ball. I don't think quick game would be
Speaker 2: his his his forte ever, but I think Malik willis
Speaker 2: getting into a Shanahan type offense where they let him
Speaker 2: move out of the pocket a whole bunch of times,
Speaker 2: but also having someone he can sit behind where he
Speaker 2: doesn't have to be the guy, and so that narrows
Speaker 2: down where he could fit in even more specifically, But
Speaker 2: that would be an idealistic situation for him. From Milik
Speaker 2: willis from liberty because he just needs a little He
Speaker 2: needs time. It's just not even just the offense he's running,
Speaker 2: because it's just burbage. Because going from Hugh Freees offense
Speaker 2: which is very simple, to reading defenses, that's where I
Speaker 2: actually think his biggest growing pains will happen. He can
Speaker 2: figure out everyone, He's smart enough, he can figure out
Speaker 2: the terms and blah blah blah. It's just rope memorization,
Speaker 2: but figuring out how the defenses are and what they
Speaker 2: can do, and what they looks are, where the pressure's
Speaker 2: coming from. That's going to take the most time for him.
Speaker 2: So I think being in a system that makes it
Speaker 2: easier on him would be the best.
Speaker 1: I saw an observation Nate from Max Brown of the
Speaker 1: PAC twelve network who pointed out that when he watched
Speaker 1: tape on the leak Willis, he noticed that he padded
Speaker 1: the ball before all of his throws, And you know,
Speaker 1: he went into a little bit of detail as to
Speaker 1: why that's not a good thing and how at this
Speaker 1: stage in his career, maybe that's something you can coach
Speaker 1: out of him. Maybe it isn't, But you know, there's
Speaker 1: such level of detail that goes into these scouting grades.
Speaker 1: I mean, is there any way to quantify how big
Speaker 1: of a project the guy like a Malik Willis is
Speaker 1: versus a guy like I mean, frankly, all of these
Speaker 1: quarterbacks are a project on some level, right, But is
Speaker 1: there any way to quantify that in your mind? Like
Speaker 1: who comes with the greatest risk but potentially the greatest reward?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I how I have gone about it, and I've
Speaker 2: stolen this from basketball like a so tim I'm a
Speaker 2: misso Timberwolves fan and they're playing the playing game this week.
Speaker 2: So yeah. Also yeah, but there there there's a blog
Speaker 2: that's be a nation blog for them that's actually pretty
Speaker 2: great called canus hoopis. But in there a guy that
Speaker 2: he was just a commentator that ended up now he
Speaker 2: works for the Nuggets. Uh, he would just do star, starter,
Speaker 2: bench or bust, and just how to discern these guys.
Speaker 2: And ever since I've stolen that when I'm breaking prospects,
Speaker 2: is what's his likelihood of being a star, what's his
Speaker 2: like Gohood being starter, bench or bust, you know, role
Speaker 2: player bust. And that's looking at Willis and just trying
Speaker 2: to give you an answer on this is quantifying that
Speaker 2: is that he has the highest star potential of these guys.
Speaker 2: He has the if we put it twelve percent, you know,
Speaker 2: or eight percent something like that, but he has maybe
Speaker 2: the lower starter potential where it's just like, hey, he's
Speaker 2: just the guy. Or and he also has the highest
Speaker 2: bunch of bus potential as well, because it's just like
Speaker 2: he could just totally flame out and all that. So
Speaker 2: when you're right, when you go with these guys. And
Speaker 2: that's what's so crazy for me is I have a
Speaker 2: same kind of a year grade with Picket as Willis,
Speaker 2: but kind of that middle late second, early third is
Speaker 2: you're kind of like you give a half round inflation
Speaker 2: for a quarterback, So if I have a mid second
Speaker 2: round grade, you take them in the late first Like
Speaker 2: that kind of is how it goes, like a little bit.
Speaker 2: That's why Trevor Lawrence and these guys last year, it's like, no,
Speaker 2: I have a top five grade on them, Well let's
Speaker 2: take them number one. That's pretty easy. But like with
Speaker 2: these guys, it's you have that half ground inflation and
Speaker 2: now it's now you get into the risk reward game.
Speaker 2: Is how high do you take a guy like Willis?
Speaker 2: Like I would never take them, like at the highest
Speaker 2: I would take him as like the thirties, you know,
Speaker 2: thirties or forties. But teams are sounding starting to take
Speaker 2: sound like they take them to the lottery because of that
Speaker 2: percentage of the star. That's what you're you're I think
Speaker 2: the Josh Allen Patrick Mahomes playoff game broke people's brains
Speaker 2: and now everyone's just like we need that, we need
Speaker 2: that and it's like, yes, you do need that, but
Speaker 2: you also need these guys to operate from the pocket
Speaker 2: as well with the creation stuff. You need both now
Speaker 2: like you need these guys need to be so superheroes. Now,
Speaker 2: it's ridiculous what these quarterbacks can do, this new age
Speaker 2: and these these mid twenties guys. But I don't know
Speaker 2: if this is a long winded answer to say, like
Speaker 2: you you have to take in the risk of where
Speaker 2: you're taking the pick and understand what your situation is.
Speaker 2: But I think everybody has that percentage that that bench,
Speaker 2: that star, that started percent percentage different with each of
Speaker 2: these guys. But that's just how I look at them.
Speaker 2: Well and answer your question.
Speaker 1: No, no, you did.
Speaker 3: You did.
Speaker 1: And I think you're you're sort of pushing up against
Speaker 1: something else that you've been saying that really the consensus
Speaker 1: for this draft that there is no consensus.
Speaker 3: Yeah, at a lot of.
Speaker 1: Positions, quarterback chief among them. We can talk about des Ritter.
Speaker 1: You're really high on Deserritter. You' ranked him as your
Speaker 1: top quarterback. And you know, this is one of those
Speaker 1: things where I think for dumb dums like Dan and
Speaker 1: I who aren't in the weeds we're not looking at
Speaker 1: the video. We see what we see on Saturdays and
Speaker 1: we kind of break it down from our chair here.
Speaker 1: But we see des ridder and we say, Okay, there's
Speaker 1: been an inconsistency in his game. We see desert to
Speaker 1: throw behind guys, particularly games, as you rightfully pointed out,
Speaker 1: you look at the tape and you say, well, in
Speaker 1: some cases he's trying to throw behind him. In other cases,
Speaker 1: maybe he's just jacked up early in the game. Desmond
Speaker 1: Ritter is a guy that we've had her eye on
Speaker 1: for quite some time. Obviously made the playoff this year,
Speaker 1: had a really good season, really good career with Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: What makes him your top quarterback prospect in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've kind of called him the comedians comedian, Like
Speaker 2: that's kind of what he's been, I'm telling you, Like
Speaker 2: how you described him a little bit is what I
Speaker 2: went into him as I barely watched him in twenty twenty,
Speaker 2: Like I watched, you know, the game against Georgia, and
Speaker 2: that was kind of like, oh, okay, he's fun. That's
Speaker 2: how I looked at him. He's fun. There's difference between
Speaker 2: good and fun though, and then when I watched him
Speaker 2: in October, I would say October and November for the
Speaker 2: first time on actual tape film all twenty two whatever
Speaker 2: you want to call it, the cloud, thunder, exos, whatever,
Speaker 2: whatever term I want to use for it. When I
Speaker 2: watched him Alston, I was like, Oh shit, you actually
Speaker 2: like process and you actually like do all the little
Speaker 2: things that is needed in the NFL. We talk about
Speaker 2: all the creation stuff you need that you need to
Speaker 2: be able to create. Go get a bucket as the
Speaker 2: term I use, but also you need to be able
Speaker 2: to do the stuff in the pocket. And the fact
Speaker 2: that I've seen him create throughout his career, that was
Speaker 2: what I knew him as as an athlete, as a
Speaker 2: guy that can go. I mean like, I was not
Speaker 2: surprised by his forty time because I've seen this guy
Speaker 2: turn on the jets and pull away from everybody, and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, I'm watching him against Indiana.
Speaker 2: The's point protections out and he's moving guys and not
Speaker 2: just like killing a play where they go from run
Speaker 2: to pass play, but actually telling the center, Hey you
Speaker 2: have the point over there. I'm switching the point over here. Hey,
Speaker 2: Jerome Ford running back, you got that guy and then
Speaker 2: snap the ball and deliver a pass. And that's what
Speaker 2: it kind of perked me up. I seeing him do
Speaker 2: that over and over. This is all theory. You talk
Speaker 2: to a lot of these quarterbacks. They got on the
Speaker 2: whiteboard and they can draw it up then go oh,
Speaker 2: I changed the protection and I do all that, and
Speaker 2: as soon as the bullets start flying, they do not
Speaker 2: do that. They just go ready, go snap, I'm throwing
Speaker 2: the ball. Like. But with Ritter, he was so calm
Speaker 2: in this processing, post pre am, post snap that I
Speaker 2: was like, That's what really turned me on to him.
Speaker 2: I know. That's my theory is I's so amped up.
Speaker 2: That's also about why I liked him, though, is that
Speaker 2: he's so competitive and I can tell that he is
Speaker 2: just how he everything, Like when a ball gets badded
Speaker 2: down or he misses a throat, you could see him
Speaker 2: just kind of go like he's not blaming the receiver
Speaker 2: or anything. I've seen the receivers drop balls for him
Speaker 2: and he's mad at himself because he's like, oh, I
Speaker 2: should put it perfect. I was like, okay, that's kind
Speaker 2: of cool. Like and I've seen something with you where
Speaker 2: he's miked up and he's he was running away from
Speaker 2: a teammate and the team was like, oh, I would
Speaker 2: have caught you. And then he's like muttering to himself
Speaker 2: back He's like, no, you wouldn't have No, you want
Speaker 2: to And I was like, okay, this, this psycho robot
Speaker 2: is my guy. Like I like this. So a lot
Speaker 2: of the mentality that he has, the fact that he
Speaker 2: is has improved, much like a Joe Burrow has where
Speaker 2: they just took a huge leap from one year to
Speaker 2: the next, as far as how he works in the pocket,
Speaker 2: how he is processing. Decides like, okay, so you have
Speaker 2: a you want to get better. That's what you have
Speaker 2: as a pro. You are your own coach. You want
Speaker 2: to make yourself better. That's what all the best of
Speaker 2: the best, they just the Dak Prescott's of the world.
Speaker 2: They are psychos. All right, I'm gonna spend this much
Speaker 2: money to like make sure I can do you know,
Speaker 2: the hit movements right and get the footwork right. I
Speaker 2: can already see that kind of wiring with Ritter, and
Speaker 2: so that's why I really liked him. The accuracy stuff
Speaker 2: you brought it up. I do think the early stuff
Speaker 2: is because he's amped up, but also his foot work
Speaker 2: stuffs still little bit inconsistent, so he can, you know,
Speaker 2: overstride and he'll miss high and the ball just zooms.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing. His misses are bad, like they
Speaker 2: go ten yards over a guy's head and it's like,
Speaker 2: oh boy, Desman, come on, come on, come on, hone in,
Speaker 2: hone in. We're good. But I do like that he's
Speaker 2: able to attack all three levels of the field. He
Speaker 2: runs true drop back concepts, which is rare at the
Speaker 2: college level to see him that run that well, he's
Speaker 2: sitting deep passes like he's doing a lot of same
Speaker 2: throws that like Stafford was not like to that level
Speaker 2: where he's doing trick shots and stuff. But as far
Speaker 2: as like as he's processing, he's getting to backside reads.
Speaker 2: That stuff is tangible, That stuff translates, and so that's
Speaker 2: why we do the star starter stuff. His star percentage
Speaker 2: might be as high, but a starter percentage is a
Speaker 2: huge chunk, bigger than I think a lot of these
Speaker 2: other guys in this class.
Speaker 3: I want to stick with concepts. And I don't know
Speaker 3: if this is specifically draft related, but because you're watching
Speaker 3: so much, and because you're watching so many varied styles
Speaker 3: and because we know on a certain level, scheme and
Speaker 3: concept sometimes trickles up high school level to college to
Speaker 3: pro whether it's you know, jet motion or RPOs, things
Speaker 3: tend to go in that direction at least sometimes are
Speaker 3: there specific schools? Are there, specific systems? Are there specific concepts?
Speaker 3: Are there specific coaches that do things that you're like, Hey,
Speaker 3: that's a fun and weird thing that this team is doing. Hey,
Speaker 3: it's interesting how they stack the plays on this drive
Speaker 3: to like work off of each other. Or it's interesting
Speaker 3: how they used this sort of h BAC or this
Speaker 3: sort of you know, guy in the slot. Is there
Speaker 3: that team or those or are there those coaches that
Speaker 3: you're like, I don't know, this is kind of like
Speaker 3: a fun little situation brewing here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. One of the most fun watches from me was
Speaker 2: South Dakota State, Okay, and I believe that OC went
Speaker 2: to Idaho. I think he did or something of that sort.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but that offense was like a fever dream,
Speaker 2: like they had like six different versions of QB sneaks
Speaker 2: and like fake TV snakes. I know it was. I
Speaker 2: had to watch the running back Pierce Straw and I
Speaker 2: was watching that offense. I was like, this is kind
Speaker 2: of fun. Coastal Carolina does a lot of goofy fun stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that one again, that one's like a fever dream.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna use the same the same adage for that
Speaker 2: because that one is like they it's almost like a
Speaker 2: triple option offense, but it's not. It's like it's it's weird.
Speaker 2: They just do everything, but they do like but it
Speaker 2: makes sense. Like their guys are really well coached. That's what.
Speaker 2: They're a very fun unit to watch. I get they're winning,
Speaker 2: so obviously that he was, but they do a lot
Speaker 2: of fun stuff. Also Louisiana Lafayette, which is just also
Speaker 2: they just do a lot of sound stuff. I would
Speaker 2: say on the defensive front, what Derek Mason did at
Speaker 2: Aupera and actually like flash some like really uh like
Speaker 2: some cool stuff. He was the defense coordinator left right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that was kind of and that's just me as
Speaker 2: like watching I was watching offensive guys, but I would
Speaker 2: watch them go against aubres defense and I realized that
Speaker 2: their defense was up and down, so I maybe caught
Speaker 2: three good games of it. But he was doing some
Speaker 2: sweet stuff on defense and just more again this is
Speaker 2: more just soundness and and and there's a couple of
Speaker 2: plays that have been stolen already, So I wish I
Speaker 2: could be like, oh, yeah, we're gonna steal I could
Speaker 2: see this one coming into the NFL. I would say
Speaker 2: some of the stuff that might be matriculating to the
Speaker 2: NFL is some of the motion stuff with RPOs where
Speaker 2: people just more grab back stuff that they can pull
Speaker 2: from in the NFL level where they just maybe have
Speaker 2: a guy in motion and reading the flat there. Cincinnati
Speaker 2: doesn't play. I've seen the Texans run this when when
Speaker 2: Deshaun Watson and Bill O'Brien were there. I don't even
Speaker 2: if I could say Deshaun Watson's name, but they run this.
Speaker 2: They run this just this RPO where it's it's zone read,
Speaker 2: but then the tight end is what in a run sense,
Speaker 2: it's called split zone where they kick out the backside
Speaker 2: d N but they don't block him and he just
Speaker 2: runs to the flat. And it's such a simple play.
Speaker 2: So basically you're creating as a naked bootleg as well
Speaker 2: with the zone read all in one play. And I'm
Speaker 2: shocked teams haven't stolen this because at the end of
Speaker 2: NFL you can do this because the offensive line can't
Speaker 2: get downfield on this one. So I've only seen one
Speaker 2: NFL team really run it. I've seen the Chiefs run
Speaker 2: it maybe once. But I'm wait for teams to run
Speaker 2: that more because that thing is stealing. Like the Cincinnati
Speaker 2: ran that like twelve times a game. It was awesome.
Speaker 2: It was just like run his zone, drone forward going
Speaker 2: for fifteen yards, or we're just gonna throw it to
Speaker 2: the tight end in the flat for an eight yard since. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was like the easiest play. But wait for that
Speaker 2: one to get maybe proliferate more throughout the league.
Speaker 3: Did you have any at least to your eyes, accidental
Speaker 3: discoveries along the way as you were watching player, a quarterback,
Speaker 3: a and You're like, who is this receiver or who
Speaker 3: is this right tackle? Who is just smothering dudes? Like
Speaker 3: I guess it's the old Aaron Rodgers story, right. Jeff
Speaker 3: Tedford went to the JC to look at a tight
Speaker 3: end and he was.
Speaker 2: Like, who is this quarterback in there?
Speaker 3: Who is? Yeah? Do have any like surprise pops really
Speaker 3: either side of the ball? You know, if the safety
Speaker 3: pops or a right tackle or a receiver, who are you?
Speaker 3: Who are your surprise, pops, and they don't even have
Speaker 3: to be in this year's draft class. But don't jumped
Speaker 3: out to you.
Speaker 2: Oh easily, it's Will Levis or Leavis. I'm not making
Speaker 2: sure it was safe.
Speaker 3: I have a question about Will left Levis curiosity.
Speaker 1: I went down to Will Levis question continue.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, yeah, no, no, it's uh. I'm excited to
Speaker 2: talk about him, and I kind of dropped drop hints
Speaker 2: on him. Yeah, I was stunned. I was watching Wendelle
Speaker 2: Robinson the receiver, and I liked him. I compared him
Speaker 2: to Cole Beasley, which I was pretty proud of. So
Speaker 2: watching him and all of a sudden, I'm seeing this
Speaker 2: quarterback and it was it was the Georgia game. It
Speaker 2: was the first my first exposure to him and ball
Speaker 2: just popping out of his hand and I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: that's pretty interesting. You throw it kind of funky because
Speaker 2: he like he does everything really quick, like it's just
Speaker 2: like its just the ball just comes out. And I
Speaker 2: was really surprising me. But he was big, he was
Speaker 2: scrambled around, he was running over guys. I was stunned
Speaker 2: how much I liked him. I watched a couple other games.
Speaker 2: Iguinst Iowa. I think it the Bowl game, I think
Speaker 2: another game in between there, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: like there's something to this guy. It's one of those
Speaker 2: where I'm like, I'm gonna keep a tab on you
Speaker 2: see how you grow this next year. But he was
Speaker 2: one that shocked me. I actually was like, are you
Speaker 2: draft eligible? What's what's double check? Make sure? But he's
Speaker 2: coming back for another year. So but yeah, that one
Speaker 2: was out of nowhere. I couldn't believe how much I
Speaker 2: liked him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I so I'm a pen stater. I don't have
Speaker 1: your f oh.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, I don't have a free person always just
Speaker 2: does this. I want to have this.
Speaker 1: I'm a pen stater. I'm familiar with Will's early discography,
Speaker 1: and needless to say, it was a little underwhelming. Part
Speaker 1: of that could have been the system he was in.
Speaker 1: Obviously a lot better under Liam Cohen and Kentucky, and
Speaker 1: plenty of room to grow this year. But I will admit, Nate,
Speaker 1: when I saw you had some first round steam on
Speaker 1: him on your Twitter, I was like, Ooh, I need
Speaker 1: to make sure I'm fastened to this chair right now.
Speaker 1: I did not see that coming.
Speaker 2: This and this is where I'm telling you, I get
Speaker 2: this exposure to guys like this is the same thing
Speaker 2: with happening me with Ritter. I was like, I, I've
Speaker 2: never heard of this guy, Like I watched him play
Speaker 2: once and then, so it's kind of fun. So some
Speaker 2: of that, like like you said the early discography, like
Speaker 2: I didn't, I don't. I didn't. I didn't hear that.
Speaker 1: Album Ate Baggage though.
Speaker 2: No, I just heard the mixtape and I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: he was featured on this song and it was pretty good.
Speaker 2: Like I liked him on that feature, So maybe I'm
Speaker 2: gonna check out his his whole album. And that's that's
Speaker 2: and I could see him like even if you look
Speaker 2: at his stats, he's like I think, like twenty four touchdowns,
Speaker 2: he still had twelve picks and you can still see
Speaker 2: some dummy in them. So that's why he's not perfect.
Speaker 2: But it was like, that's it's the flashes of him.
Speaker 2: So I but every Penn State person I've talked to
Speaker 2: has just gone, man, he he was like Taysom Hill
Speaker 2: when we had him, Like he was just some run
Speaker 2: he was just some run around gadget guy. And so
Speaker 2: that's that's what's interesting. That he's I've heard that he's
Speaker 2: worked with a coach just like Ritter has, where he's
Speaker 2: really like a private coach where he's really worked on
Speaker 2: his all of his pocket stuff. So maybe some of
Speaker 2: that stuff's coming to fruition with him. He might drop
Speaker 2: off the face of the ear who knows it doesn't
Speaker 2: stuff so hard, But you.
Speaker 1: Know you bring that up, right, so you know, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you've gotten the commentary from Penn State people. And
Speaker 1: if we expanded out not just Will Levis, but like
Speaker 1: draft time, when you're evaluating talent, it's got to be
Speaker 1: a massive exercise in avoiding group think because, especially now
Speaker 1: in the media world, everybody's trying to get clicks. You
Speaker 1: know this now, right like everybody's trying to get clicks.
Speaker 1: Everyone's trying to have the hot take that makes their
Speaker 1: stuff pop, makes their star rise a little bit. For
Speaker 1: lack of better terms, like, how do you avoid those
Speaker 1: pitfalls and sort of come to your own conclusion when
Speaker 1: there is so much out there I saw today, I
Speaker 1: mean I looked at a couple different mock drafts even
Speaker 1: before this interview. There really is no consensus. People think
Speaker 1: Aiden Hutchinson's the number one pick. But there's like fifteen
Speaker 1: other opinions out there. How difficult is it? Give voice
Speaker 1: to how difficult it might be to kind of formulate
Speaker 1: your own opinion in this time where there are so
Speaker 1: many to go around.
Speaker 2: No, And that's a great point to make, or a
Speaker 2: great question run is just do the work and come
Speaker 2: to your own come to your own conclusions, like yes,
Speaker 2: and I'll be a liar if I said I don't.
Speaker 2: If I ignore the noise and I don't look at
Speaker 2: what other people are saying that, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: sit here and lie to you and say I don't.
Speaker 2: I say, for me, is you kind of go okay,
Speaker 2: this is where these guys are kind of in the
Speaker 2: area that they're in. Okay, people are kind of talking
Speaker 2: about this guy as the first rounder. But for me,
Speaker 2: how I just go about it is yeah, just doing
Speaker 2: the work and that kind of leads to its own
Speaker 2: conclusions and that this is just for me and just
Speaker 2: like having my own statement on something. That's why I
Speaker 2: think I was I was really early my love for
Speaker 2: Desmond Ridder was I just wanted to be like, hey,
Speaker 2: this is funny that I say I'm going to I'll
Speaker 2: admit to trying to form that internet dopamine as well,
Speaker 2: is going like, hey, this is my guy that I'm
Speaker 2: playing my flag on, Desmond Ridder because I wanted to
Speaker 2: just go I'm not a Johnny come Lately. I'm watching
Speaker 2: him and this is what I think after watching all
Speaker 2: these top guys. And so there's a little bit that
Speaker 2: where you have to do that to stand out. Otherwise
Speaker 2: people just go, oh, you just you're you're just crowdsourcing.
Speaker 2: You know, You're you're just taking what everybody else.
Speaker 1: No situation for you.
Speaker 2: It really is, it really is. And but that's for
Speaker 2: me is just trying to do the work and watch
Speaker 2: actually watching these guys and taking the notes and just
Speaker 2: going like this is what how I feel like I
Speaker 2: everybody's gonna have their own personal biases, you know, with
Speaker 2: with these guys and going like, I have a certain
Speaker 2: like a receiver. I love big ball winners like I
Speaker 2: just do. I I like size at my at the
Speaker 2: receiver position, actually really every position. That's just what I
Speaker 2: have liked. That's a In the NFL, a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff becomes durability question marks. Like that's why people always go, wow,
Speaker 2: why did this guy making the NFL? Well he's probably
Speaker 2: five nine one eight, Like you know that that doesn't
Speaker 2: hold off in the NFL once you're a freak. But
Speaker 2: that's where I I that's why I'm gonna have my
Speaker 2: own personal biases. But I'm always going to just go like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, the stat people really like this guy. All Right,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna take him. I'm gonna give him a second look.
Speaker 2: Oh this guy ran a four three eight at the combine.
Speaker 2: Well you know I have a second round grade on him.
Speaker 2: All right, I'll take a second look. So that's really
Speaker 2: it's just we're all going to have our own processes
Speaker 2: for it. But that's just mine doing the work. He's
Speaker 2: just taken all the data points. But also real quick
Speaker 2: is that you're saying there's no consensus. I actually think
Speaker 2: that's what makes it so fun for this draft class.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because it's going like, all right, what do
Speaker 2: you see? Like what everybody's it's eye of the beholder always.
Speaker 2: But now as opposed to like last year we had
Speaker 2: so many blue chip, true blue chip guys, this year
Speaker 2: it's more going like a right, who's seeing the right
Speaker 2: things or is making the best educated guesses?
Speaker 1: You mentioned your own kind of bias towards size in
Speaker 1: the NFL, I want to talk about some of the
Speaker 1: other skill positions if they could quickly before we.
Speaker 3: Let you go.
Speaker 1: But especially on the receiver side. I heard a recent
Speaker 1: show you did with Robert and you talk about Drake
Speaker 1: London as your top receiver and you like him because
Speaker 1: he's got the size. He won what was it, nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty to fifty balls, some ridiculous percentage, right, He's clearly
Speaker 1: a freak. On the flip side, you've got a guy
Speaker 1: like a Chris a Lave who is smaller but seems
Speaker 1: to be a really gifted root runner, could find his
Speaker 1: place in the NFL because of that. I'm curious to
Speaker 1: get more of a breakdown of that wide receiver possition
Speaker 1: because you know, when it comes to draft day, it
Speaker 1: is a position that is much talked about. We see
Speaker 1: these guys out there on game day every Saturday. How
Speaker 1: that game translates to the NFL, at least for me
Speaker 1: personally as a college football fan, I've always had a
Speaker 1: really hard time figuring out who's gonna pop at the
Speaker 1: next level and who isn't. How do you kind of
Speaker 1: do that calculus from your side?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a lot of it is. This is where
Speaker 2: tape because receivers is some of these guys get six
Speaker 2: targets in a game, and if you only watch those
Speaker 2: six targets, you're missing out on sixty other plays where
Speaker 2: you can get something from these guys where they're just
Speaker 2: running a route but not getting to target. And you
Speaker 2: can see them working against press or working a route
Speaker 2: that they haven't gotten the ball on, but you can
Speaker 2: see them running that type of route of the route tree.
Speaker 2: So that's where you know, watching these guys really comes
Speaker 2: up also seeing their effort and blocking. And I know
Speaker 2: that sounds like, Oh, I think I've won some people
Speaker 2: over on it on our show because they thought it
Speaker 2: was just like oh coaching, Like, ah, you're just an
Speaker 2: old coach. I talks about it matters. It really matters
Speaker 2: because if you want to be in three wide receivers
Speaker 2: and run the ball, those receivers have to block, like
Speaker 2: if you're taking off tight ends and fullbacks like that's
Speaker 2: what they have to do. It's just part of the
Speaker 2: position now. And so watch that's where some of the
Speaker 2: size stuff comes in and more of just toughness. And
Speaker 2: that's what's so funny is that I'll start with him
Speaker 2: is Chris olave Is. He's not usually the guys I like,
Speaker 2: I like. I love his route running. He is advanced,
Speaker 2: as one of the most advanced route runners I've ever
Speaker 2: seen come out of the college level. On top of that,
Speaker 2: he has speed, legit speed that he uses. It's not
Speaker 2: just a theory thing where it's like, oh, you ran
Speaker 2: a four to three eight, I thought you're gonna be
Speaker 2: a four or five guy. It's actually he uses that
Speaker 2: speed to his advantage. I like his ball scales, his
Speaker 2: his My negatives with him is he is smaller as
Speaker 2: far as play strength. He's not a good blocker. He
Speaker 2: can get pushed around more physical guys, but how he
Speaker 2: can overcome it because he's so skilled. So that's why
Speaker 2: I'm okay with him as opposed to usual with the
Speaker 2: smaller guys or skinnier guys, I should say, because it's
Speaker 2: not smallly six foot U. There's just skinny. He's just skinny,
Speaker 2: and that always matters with durability stuff. But then Drake
Speaker 2: london Is, I went in that's what I thought. I
Speaker 2: thought it was just gonna be some big dude, almost
Speaker 2: like one of the Clemson guys that's come through the years.
Speaker 2: Mike Williams the t Higgins of the world. He's just big, big,
Speaker 2: almost stiff, but just like snatch everything. And why I
Speaker 2: loved London so much was he was sinking on routes.
Speaker 2: He was you could see the athleticism. Even if his
Speaker 2: long speed's not there, his one through ten speed was
Speaker 2: actually pretty good. And also being able to like like
Speaker 2: actually like run a full rout tree even if that
Speaker 2: was an a it's a true air raid offense that
Speaker 2: they ran. And oh my god, so many screens. I
Speaker 2: couldn't believe how many.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Hey, you have Drake London and you're
Speaker 3: throwing him short balls all the time.
Speaker 2: All over and over. And also the quarterback was late
Speaker 2: all the time, and that's where some of the separation
Speaker 2: like arguments came from. Well we can't separate. It's like, no,
Speaker 2: he separated. The quarterback was three seconds late, so he
Speaker 2: had to play in his foot and go up and
Speaker 2: get it. Against Oregon State, I watched him and he
Speaker 2: had he legitimately drew five penalties in that game or more.
Speaker 2: That's just off the top of my head I can remember.
Speaker 2: So it's like he's dominating like he is dominating as
Speaker 2: much as you can see a receiver dominate at the
Speaker 2: college level. And the versatility that he brings. He can
Speaker 2: work from the slot, he can block like they have
Speaker 2: him running like tight end blocking stuff. So it's like,
Speaker 2: this guy, no matter what I think, it could just
Speaker 2: be useful, like and if the upside, he still has upside.
Speaker 2: Though he's super young, he's just become like finally becoming
Speaker 2: a full time football player for the first time in
Speaker 2: his life. I just like, I just like the package
Speaker 2: of him, size, ball skills, route running, just all the
Speaker 2: like polishes already shown. And he's so young at such
Speaker 2: a young age. So that's why I really really like him.
Speaker 2: There's and there's a couple other guys, like bigger guys
Speaker 2: that I always gravitude towards, Like I'm high on Justin
Speaker 2: Ross from Clenson. Sure, really it's And what's funny is
Speaker 2: I remember as a freshman, but really my grade off
Speaker 2: of him, I have early second grade on him, and
Speaker 2: medicals are going to be a train wreck for him.
Speaker 2: But is this past year I was watching him and
Speaker 2: I was like, this guy's a stud. It's just that
Speaker 2: the quarterback was hitting the stands on the throws. So
Speaker 2: this poor guy's bringing guys off on routes and then
Speaker 2: seeing the ball like go over his head. He looks like,
Speaker 2: you know, like a pitcher that gives up a home
Speaker 2: run and the ball and they just look at the
Speaker 2: ball go over. That's that was justin ross running routes
Speaker 2: and then but what I liked about him was that
Speaker 2: he would he would still compete as a blocker. He
Speaker 2: was still into the game even though the targets weren't coming,
Speaker 2: the stats weren't coming, So that really maybe I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: you're you get it, like you want to compete, and
Speaker 2: receivers can be come and go with their competition levels.
Speaker 2: So that's those are always positives that you want to see,
Speaker 2: you know, and then you want to just talk about
Speaker 2: the rest of the first round guys, I have go
Speaker 2: for it. Yeah, but my number three is Jameson Williams,
Speaker 2: and I think everybody's watched college football or now knows
Speaker 2: about the draft knows what his game is. Speed, speed, speed.
Speaker 2: But what I liked about him is he was more
Speaker 2: of a real receiver than I thought he would be.
Speaker 2: He actually knows how to run routes and actually knows
Speaker 2: how to tempo his stuff a bit of a body catcher,
Speaker 2: which I didn't like, but I I still like him
Speaker 2: as like he's useful, like no matter which team he
Speaker 2: goes to, they're gonna you always have a use for speed.
Speaker 2: And then next I really like Johan Dotson. I'm from
Speaker 2: Penn State. I know that that preaching to acquire probably here,
Speaker 2: but I think he's just a ballplayer. I think he
Speaker 2: played with bad quarterback play, or if he quarterback play
Speaker 2: and he is, I think he's just a hell of
Speaker 2: a football player, plays big. I compared him to Tyler
Speaker 2: Lockett and then Traylon Burks from Arkansas, which is one
Speaker 2: of the weirdest studies I've ever had for the receiver position,
Speaker 2: just how they use him. I think he's a big
Speaker 2: boomer bust candidate. But if he gets to the right
Speaker 2: system that guides him along, I think he still has
Speaker 2: to learn how to play football. I don't think his
Speaker 2: understanding of the playbooks all the way there. That's why
Speaker 2: they motioned them so many times. They have to tag
Speaker 2: them and tell him, hey, Traylon moved to the right,
Speaker 2: run this route. So I do think there's part of that.
Speaker 2: So his learning curves can be a little steeper, but
Speaker 2: if he hits, he'll he'll hit pretty well because he's
Speaker 2: just so has so many cool traits. And the last
Speaker 2: one's Garrett Wilson from Ohio State, which I'm a little
Speaker 2: I have some concerns with his route running, how he
Speaker 2: plays against press, but when you just get the ball
Speaker 2: in his hands and it's just like, go do stuff
Speaker 2: because he's so dynamic. I couldpare it him to Brandon
Speaker 2: Ayuk from who's with the forty nine ers now, where
Speaker 2: it's it's a little bit more boom busty, but it's like,
Speaker 2: just get the ball in his hands and let him
Speaker 2: go make plays.
Speaker 3: Who is the highest star potential guy on your board,
Speaker 3: either any position, any side of the ball, whatever you mentioned.
Speaker 3: Malik Willis has the highest star potential of any of
Speaker 3: the quarterbacks. But just in terms of like, look, you're
Speaker 3: in Vegas. If you're betting ten thousand of your own
Speaker 3: American dollars that this person will be a pro bowler,
Speaker 3: who is that person?
Speaker 2: Drake London? I do I think that if he I'm
Speaker 2: not as concerned about as long speed. I know he
Speaker 2: hasn't run and he keeps putting off his pro day.
Speaker 2: But I'm not as concerned as other people are because
Speaker 2: he just win. Like it's just a useful NFL player,
Speaker 2: NFL receiver, and I think that if he does take
Speaker 2: a next step that it's like, oh, who's going to
Speaker 2: guard him? Like it's I've seen, I've seen now for
Speaker 2: seven years. No one could guard Mike Evans once unless
Speaker 2: you just double team on basically every play. I don't.
Speaker 2: I think he's not as big or as truly as
Speaker 2: explosive as Mike Evans is, but I think he's more skilled.
Speaker 2: So it's kind of like a fun match. I know
Speaker 2: I'm super high on them. I feel right crazy. I
Speaker 2: go crazy on him, but then I just watch. Every
Speaker 2: time I rewatch them, I'm like, yeah, I double down
Speaker 2: on that. But I do think he has some of
Speaker 2: the most star potential, especially of this crops. It's a
Speaker 2: good cropper receivers, it really is.
Speaker 3: It must be by the way, it must be maddening,
Speaker 3: and you know, it's it's easy to dig on where
Speaker 3: USC has been these past couple of years. To look
Speaker 3: at players. You're like, he's definitely getting the ball, like
Speaker 3: he's to everybody knows he's getting the ball or everybody
Speaker 3: knows this running back is getting the ball, everybody knows
Speaker 3: where this this team has to go because there's so
Speaker 3: little talent or organization, and yet the guy still succeeds.
Speaker 3: And there are examples of that up and down. The
Speaker 3: NFL guys who were taking the lower rounds were just
Speaker 3: like they somehow always got open. They somehow and so
Speaker 3: it's got to be infuriating to you to to have
Speaker 3: to watch these bad football teams with these like lone
Speaker 3: shining stuff who are not maximizing their winning potential.
Speaker 2: It's rough. It's rough when you I've realized every time
Speaker 2: I do this, I'm like, oh, I've been spoiled with
Speaker 2: NFL play. You're just like even the quote unquote bad
Speaker 2: NFL teams, it's like you still watch them. You're like
Speaker 2: they're still doing cool stuff or this player is fricking awesome. Like,
Speaker 2: but yeah, you watch these college games and it's I've
Speaker 2: gotten spoiled. Not we just play, but just quarterback play.
Speaker 2: Because USC was one of them. I'm watching these guys
Speaker 2: take forever to get rid of the ball, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: the throws there, just throw it, just please, for the
Speaker 2: love of God, just hit them and or watching Clemson
Speaker 2: and seeing like I was like, man, this guy is
Speaker 2: taking the long wind up and the balls over. That's yeah,
Speaker 2: that's h yeah. After receiver positions where that crops up
Speaker 2: the most, because you'll go fifty snaps where they don't
Speaker 2: even get a target, and so you get a little
Speaker 2: bit bit bored watching them.
Speaker 3: On the flip side, though, I mean, and we'll let
Speaker 3: you out of here in a couple of minutes, but
Speaker 3: you've been terrific, so I'm just going to keep you
Speaker 3: as long as we possibly can. On the flip side,
Speaker 3: you'll watch teams who are so deep and so talented
Speaker 3: and so much more talented than the competition. And you
Speaker 3: mentioned this a little bit with Tua, like he has
Speaker 3: to run the RPO stuff. But on a certain level,
Speaker 3: whether it's Alabama or Ohio State or what Clemson was
Speaker 3: or some of the better teams in the country, are
Speaker 3: you like, yeah, but it's a little bit easier for
Speaker 3: them because this guy's the number three receiver and numbers
Speaker 3: one and two are getting so much attention. So he's drawing,
Speaker 3: you know, a worse corner or a worse nickel or whatever,
Speaker 3: or this offensive lineman is drawing you know or is
Speaker 3: surrounded by other crazy talented guys. So this defensive lineman
Speaker 3: is playing with another guy who's getting double teams all
Speaker 3: the time. Like, how is it difficult to sift through
Speaker 3: a more advantaged player.
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, yeah, yes, and no, it's especially for quarterbacks.
Speaker 2: It's the offensive line. Yeah, and what they have to
Speaker 2: deal with, Like that was that speaks to Ritter a
Speaker 2: little bit more? Was no one really brought up the
Speaker 2: Cincinnati offensive line. They were not good, right, they were
Speaker 2: like below I would say average. I'll put them at average,
Speaker 2: but they they watching them and that's like it speaks
Speaker 2: more to Ritter. But then you watch another guy I'm
Speaker 2: trying to think of, like one of the past, maybe
Speaker 2: Mac Jones last year. I was just bring him up,
Speaker 2: but like just sitting there and they just get to
Speaker 2: hang out. And just or Russell Wilson when I played
Speaker 2: with him at Wisconsin where it's just he just hung
Speaker 2: out in the pocket. It was just like one, you know,
Speaker 2: one Mississippy two Mississippi kind of like all right, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go scramble, just go make something happen. So you
Speaker 2: always have to take that into account. You also get
Speaker 2: kind of a good litmus test kind of going like seeing,
Speaker 2: especially like running back, this will happen a lot. Okay,
Speaker 2: this running back goes, he gets three carries. Okay, it
Speaker 2: looks okay. How does his backup look getting behind the
Speaker 2: same offensive line, same play, same situation. That was That's
Speaker 2: the position I think more than others, you can really
Speaker 2: get a tell for a situation and based on how
Speaker 2: their backup does. Like That's one of the reasons I
Speaker 2: was kind of lower on Isaiah Spiller a textas a
Speaker 2: and m I'd watch his backup go in and get
Speaker 2: break off and explosive play, and then he goes and
Speaker 2: he gets fars and I was like, man, this one
Speaker 2: was actually blocked better, Like you got to you got to,
Speaker 2: you know, make something happen with it. So I would
Speaker 2: say that position, more than others, you can really see stuff.
Speaker 2: I would say, quarterback, Yeah, you have to take that
Speaker 2: into account. This is like I was watch Ritter and
Speaker 2: this is again I'm mister optimist on him, but you
Speaker 2: watch him unless he's thrown to Alec Pierce, who I
Speaker 2: also like the receiver or the tight end Wiley. Everybody
Speaker 2: else was dropping the ball every like every other time.
Speaker 2: It would him right the chest and drop it. So
Speaker 2: you take that into the count You're like, well, I'm
Speaker 2: going to watch the process at this guy. Yeah, don't
Speaker 2: look at the result, look at the process leading up
Speaker 2: to that. Especially all these guys, it's process, process, process,
Speaker 2: and then it leads to good results. If you're on
Speaker 2: a good team, the good results happen all the time.
Speaker 2: If you're on a bad team, it's like, wow, that
Speaker 2: process was good. Another drop, All that process was good.
Speaker 2: Left guard got beat. You know, you know that those
Speaker 2: things start adding up. I think that's a big difference.
Speaker 2: Is the good teams get the results more, which makes
Speaker 2: sense with all the wins.
Speaker 1: Yes, Nate, I know we've asked you about, you know,
Speaker 1: some very specific draft things here, but who are just
Speaker 1: some other names guys that you came across, Maybe not
Speaker 1: the accidental discovery is Dan description earlier, but just guys
Speaker 1: that you like, Guys that you enjoyed watching on tape,
Speaker 1: who you were rooting for on draft day.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Khalil Shakir from Boise State is probably one of
Speaker 2: my favorite watches of any position. I have a high
Speaker 2: second round grade on him. I'm shocked, like I'm waiting
Speaker 2: for people to catch people like him, but I thought
Speaker 2: kind of maybe he ran pretty well at the combine.
Speaker 2: I thought maybe he'd get another little bump. But I
Speaker 2: love him. I think he's a returner. I think he's
Speaker 2: gonna be a very useful and early in his career.
Speaker 2: Number two can play slot and play outside. Good route runner,
Speaker 2: he's just got short arms, but good returner, like just
Speaker 2: a ballplayer. I really like him. Other guys like Sky Moore.
Speaker 2: I'm not the first person to say that they like him.
Speaker 2: I've already brought up I've already brought up Justin Ross,
Speaker 2: who I'm super high on that. You know, the injury
Speaker 2: concerns is what's gonna what's gonna make him drop a
Speaker 2: little bit? That's our receiver. I would sy tight end
Speaker 2: Greg Dolcic from u c l A. Yeah, I really.
Speaker 2: He's been a late rise. He was a declare. That's
Speaker 2: where we're talking about, Oh wow, this guy's eligible, had
Speaker 2: no idea and they need declare And I was like,
Speaker 2: oh God, I gotta watch him real quick. And I
Speaker 2: was like, oh man, he's pretty damn good. Runs like
Speaker 2: a deer like he is. I compared him actually to
Speaker 2: Jared Cook, which is like so funny because he's really
Speaker 2: high cut, really long legged, so it kind of actually
Speaker 2: hurts him blocking because he can't get low and this
Speaker 2: is a detailed like this is just ran this as
Speaker 2: I is. But then but he can run and take
Speaker 2: like a true vertical threat or at the tight end position.
Speaker 2: I really like him. Kate Otten from Washington, good blocking
Speaker 2: tight end, kind of does everything well. Really like him.
Speaker 2: Another Derek D's from San Jose State. He's like a
Speaker 2: Day three guy, but I really like him as well.
Speaker 2: He didn't run or anything, so I'm a little I
Speaker 2: always hate that. Like I went to the Shrine game,
Speaker 2: I was waiting for him. I was like, this is
Speaker 2: kind of my baby, like my little dark horse. And
Speaker 2: then he didn't He got he got he like got
Speaker 2: an ankle, rolled, rolled an ankle, sprained ankle, like individual
Speaker 2: first first practice and he didn't practice. I like dropped
Speaker 2: him around because I was so frustrated with them. But
Speaker 2: I would give him a chance. I would say, even
Speaker 2: if we're going running backs. I really like Rashad White
Speaker 2: of Arizona's statement, that's kind of like my little he
Speaker 2: was their offense dude. He is I like I was
Speaker 2: because I saw Richard senior with him and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: that's running back. You don't really want to see that.
Speaker 2: And then you watch him and he is talented. He
Speaker 2: is such a fun player. Tyler al Jeer, I like him.
Speaker 2: For BYU compared him with James Connor type. I like
Speaker 2: Jerome Ford from Cincinnati. Those guys, I really like all
Speaker 2: of them. I got one other guy and it's like
Speaker 2: it's on the tip of my tongue and now I
Speaker 2: can't think of his name. But anyways, those guys are
Speaker 2: oh ty Chandler from North Carolina. I like him as
Speaker 2: a Day three guy, a little long legged, but I
Speaker 2: think he's usfual. I think someone's going to gonna like
Speaker 2: him a little bit. But yeah, I really like this
Speaker 2: running back class. There's a lot of like round three,
Speaker 2: round four types that a couple of them are going
Speaker 2: to hit for somebody.
Speaker 3: Final question. You're in Vegas. You've talked about preferring size
Speaker 3: from your NFL draft prospects. My co host Tye does
Speaker 3: is a five tool player. But if there's something that
Speaker 3: Tie does not bring to the table, it is elite size.
Speaker 3: About five to nine? What buck sixty, buck fifty five?
Speaker 3: Where are you at right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not starting in the league.
Speaker 3: You're not starting in the league. But my question to you,
Speaker 3: as somebody who prefers and has been around size, you're
Speaker 3: in Vegas. If TIE is in Vegas and you can't
Speaker 3: answer buffet or anything like that. We're building quality mass
Speaker 3: on Tie via a series of meals. What is your
Speaker 3: itinerary for TIE building quality mass in restaurants in Las Vegas.
Speaker 2: I would start with lunch at Good Pie, which is
Speaker 2: a great call. Yeah, pizza joint in downtown Vegas, which
Speaker 2: is it's area called It's on Main Streets the Arts District,
Speaker 2: which is which is basically they threw a bunch of
Speaker 2: hipsters at it and it became a spot and it's great.
Speaker 2: It's great though, by the Yeah Good Pie. I would
Speaker 2: start with lunch there, dinner it would be all, my god, dinner.
Speaker 2: You go a million places. I like Al Mafi at
Speaker 2: freaking at Caesar's, trying to run my brain here. That's
Speaker 2: my my terranean style. There's a place out here in
Speaker 2: the suburbs in Summerlin called Harlow's, which is a steakhouse
Speaker 2: at I adore I look, it's by Rob mary Neelli,
Speaker 2: the former coaches his daughter. She's she's a chef, she's awesome,
Speaker 2: But Harlow's out here. I would also go to Italy,
Speaker 2: which is a multiple places. There's one work, there's other,
Speaker 2: but there's a sandwich there. I would also get, so
Speaker 2: if you're going in between lunch and dinner, I would
Speaker 2: get a sandwich there. There's a it's like a it's
Speaker 2: super simple. It's just a really good bread. They put
Speaker 2: all of oil, salt, pepper, and just like a little
Speaker 2: wolf some meat on there.
Speaker 3: I think I had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so freaking good. And I'm trying to think
Speaker 2: of other dinner places. I kind of like I'm kind
Speaker 2: of a grab back because there's like seven places I
Speaker 2: like buy them all the same rating. So really dinner
Speaker 2: you can kind of what you choose where you want
Speaker 2: to bulk up there.
Speaker 3: Have you done? Have you done Carbone?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yes, I did it last week actually with my parents. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a good spot. That's actually really good.
Speaker 3: Well, it's it's a it's like elevated red sauce Italian
Speaker 3: tie and you're gonna do real well, Like you can
Speaker 3: stuff yourself with the bread that they they'll bring you
Speaker 3: like a basket. The size of your torso of bread
Speaker 3: with soapro soada and parmesan cheese.
Speaker 1: And but what about the vodka sauce, Dan, You know
Speaker 1: that's mine. So that's that's their strength. Tie they have
Speaker 1: like the rigatoni and spicy vodka sauce. That's all right,
Speaker 1: it's we're coming out to Vegas. Yeah, coming out.
Speaker 3: We got to do this, Dan, Yeah done.
Speaker 2: I think I think it'll be the first tourists ever
Speaker 2: to come to Vegas. I don't know, but I guess
Speaker 2: you would. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Fair enough.
Speaker 1: Of The Athletic The Athletic Football Show. We appreciate your time,
Speaker 1: We appreciate you making us a little bit smarter. Hope
Speaker 1: you get some sleep over the next couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: I know, I know it can be kind of crazy
Speaker 1: leading up to the draft and in the immediate aftermath.
Speaker 1: But thank you so much for hopping on with us here.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, guys.
Speaker 1: This is a lot of fun, all right. There you go, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Tice the Athletic Go check him out on The Athletic
Speaker 1: Football Show. He and Robert May is doing an awesome
Speaker 1: job breaking down all things NFL right now. Of course,
Speaker 1: the big topic is the upcoming NFL draft, Daniel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited to watch. My very specific watch plan
Speaker 3: is the same thing every year. It's Thursday night. I say,
Speaker 3: oh man, here's the NFL Draft. I watch the first
Speaker 3: seventeen picks. I go to bed, and then I wake
Speaker 3: up the next morning and I say, WHOA, Okay, interesting.
Speaker 3: And then I watched the first three picks of the
Speaker 3: second round, and then I go do something else, and
Speaker 3: I just keep checking my phone and I say whoa.
Speaker 3: And I just keep doing that, and then I'll tune
Speaker 3: back in and I'm always I always like seeing the
Speaker 3: like the swap in and out of analysts on the
Speaker 3: ESPN or NFL network set or whatever, and then them
Speaker 3: start to get loopy deep into the draft where they
Speaker 3: have to go to the back through. They're hungry, they're thirsty,
Speaker 3: they're glassy eyed, they haven't slept in seventeen days. I
Speaker 3: always like the wild card element of that. So I'm
Speaker 3: in for all sorts of different amounts of fun with
Speaker 3: the draft. I love it.
Speaker 1: My best draft memory was back in twenty thirteen. I
Speaker 1: can't tell you who was picked, but that was the
Speaker 1: year I had my reconstructive shoulder surgery. Okay, and you
Speaker 1: just I mean, you can't do anything. I watched all
Speaker 1: of the Wire and all of the NFL Draft in
Speaker 1: the span of like two weeks.
Speaker 3: Weird combo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true. They do get loopy after a while
Speaker 1: because it's all filler. And you know from doing this show,
Speaker 1: we do what an hour hour and fifteen minute show
Speaker 1: here a couple times a week. Even within the span
Speaker 1: of this show. We try to limit the amount of
Speaker 1: filler that we have, but it happens. It's inevitable. Those guys,
Speaker 1: those guys have to deal with it. I can't imagine
Speaker 1: what it's like to try and host that coverage, what
Speaker 1: it's like to try and provide a different slant when
Speaker 1: you're on day talking about guys. No one's ever heard
Speaker 1: of doing interviews trying to move the coverage seven hours
Speaker 1: day here, it's it. I'm equally as impressed by the
Speaker 1: level of analysis as I am by just the production
Speaker 1: behind the scenes of keeping the thing afloat.
Speaker 3: Have you ever watched it from the other side, where
Speaker 3: like the Cults or the Bengals or the Cowboys, you
Speaker 3: get to see the behind the scenes show. Whether it's
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a hard Knocks in season now, there's
Speaker 3: all sorts of behind the are some teams just film
Speaker 3: it themselves. And of course it's the very serious.
Speaker 2: War room, right, it's the draft war room.
Speaker 3: They're like they're doing something extremely internationally important. And there's
Speaker 3: thirty seven people in a room and they're all pumping
Speaker 3: their fists because they got their like number seven linebacker
Speaker 3: in the fourth round. And I know this is their lives.
Speaker 3: I know this is their jobs. I know all of
Speaker 3: the seriousness that goes with like making the correct or
Speaker 3: indirect indirect decision. But the seriousness with which those shows
Speaker 3: are edited and the compounds, the facilities are laid out,
Speaker 3: and the giant whiteboards and the moving pieces, it does
Speaker 3: make me giggle.
Speaker 2: Tie.
Speaker 1: It makes me giggle that it's.
Speaker 3: This industry and this war room and like the phone
Speaker 3: calls all right, let's do it. Yeah, it's great. It's
Speaker 3: I love the theater of it all. And I don't
Speaker 3: know how if you're a football fan you can't appreciate
Speaker 3: how lovingly ridiculous it can all seem. Well, and on
Speaker 3: top of it, the drafts in Vegas. Yep, the drafts
Speaker 3: in Vegas. It was supposed to be in Vegas.
Speaker 1: I think a couple of years ago, right, and yeah
Speaker 1: when virtual Yeah, so I'm I'm curious to see the
Speaker 1: pomp and circumstance, particularly as it relates to the first round,
Speaker 1: because I have heard varying accounts of what that will
Speaker 1: look like from a TV standpoint, and I'm excited for it.
Speaker 3: Wait, do you have a song pick, like the song
Speaker 3: of the year, the commercial bumper where it was like,
Speaker 3: oh no, that's all Like, remember we called that like
Speaker 3: in twenty sixteen or twenty thirteen or whatever year it
Speaker 3: was we got it that one year. Yeah, well it's
Speaker 3: there because you pay attention. I douse.
Speaker 1: I need to think a little bit more about this.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's something we could talk about on Thursday.
Speaker 3: I'm going to have much more time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna come armed with a list of five songs.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to look it up.
Speaker 1: I think they may actually publicize it. I won't look
Speaker 1: it up. Okay, that that spoils the fun.
Speaker 3: I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1: I will try to. I will comb through the top
Speaker 1: forty list and see what pop songs I can come
Speaker 1: up with that seemed like they would work. I have
Speaker 1: a few off the top of my head, but I
Speaker 1: need to. I need to actually put some research into
Speaker 1: this one.
Speaker 3: Are you a Vegas person, by the way, I'm a
Speaker 3: Vegas person for forty eight hours max? Yeah, anything more
Speaker 3: than that, and uh, you know, maybe it's different if
Speaker 3: you live there.
Speaker 1: If it you know, you kind of.
Speaker 3: Put roots down.
Speaker 1: It's a full on city. Yeah, that's different. But as
Speaker 1: for a tourist destination, I forty eight hours, maybe seventy
Speaker 1: two hours tops, but after.
Speaker 2: That, it's time.
Speaker 3: What are your priorities there?
Speaker 1: I mean the priorities use Well, I've been out there
Speaker 1: for the NCAA tournament, which is awesome. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: great time on Incidemat tournament, and the priority was hard
Speaker 1: gambling when I was there.
Speaker 3: On basketball, on table games.
Speaker 1: Well on what well, I was there for college basketball,
Speaker 1: so it was it was basically wagering on as many
Speaker 1: games as possible, okay, and then playing blackjack. But that
Speaker 1: was also before all of these things became more mainstream
Speaker 1: and more prevalent pretty much anywhere you live. Sure, so
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the preference would be if I
Speaker 1: went back, but at least the time I was there,
Speaker 1: the one time I was in Vegas, it was pretty much,
Speaker 1: let's watch as much basketball as we can.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's the only time. That was the Loane visit
Speaker 3: to Vegas, Okay, the only time. Yeah, Yeah, Vegas is
Speaker 3: pretty good. I'm not a gambler, I'm not a drinker.
Speaker 3: I'm not a clubber. I'm not a strip club person.
Speaker 3: But man, in my old age, do I just want
Speaker 3: to go and eat all of the food. It is
Speaker 3: such a great restaurant city, not even just the strip,
Speaker 3: even beyond that that. That's to me why I would
Speaker 3: return to just and you know, go to a comedy
Speaker 3: show or two or something like that. But man, so
Speaker 3: many restaurants I want to try out in the desert.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's all I have to contribute to that.
Speaker 3: And oh, man, Vegas, Yeah, I haven't been in a
Speaker 3: long time, long long time. Yeah, I would like to
Speaker 3: go back. All right, that's all. I think. That's all
Speaker 3: I have. I would be remiss on another level, though, Tie.
Speaker 3: Maybe somebody found our show through Nate or through the
Speaker 3: Draft or something like that, or just found it recently,
Speaker 3: and I imagine somebody says to themselves, you know, the
Speaker 3: content's okay, but damn, do Dan and Tie sound good?
Speaker 3: We've gotten that note? Like, man, you guys sound good,
Speaker 3: and I want I got to tell you just in
Speaker 3: the light of in light of I guess these past
Speaker 3: few days, it's definitely Tie. It's definitely Tie. Who makes
Speaker 3: this show sound as good as it does. I've gotten better,
Speaker 3: but it's definitely Tie. And so I just want to
Speaker 3: give you a bit of a background after these past
Speaker 3: few days, if you'd like to know why our show
Speaker 3: sounds so good and so legendary. It's from the majestic
Speaker 3: heights of the Steel Stacks. What is this to the
Speaker 3: insight of the National Museum of Industrial History, the whispering
Speaker 3: winds of Klein Farms, Tie, the wonder of the Da
Speaker 3: Vinci Science Center, and up to the peaks and vistas
Speaker 3: of Hawk Mountain and the Wildlands Conservancy.
Speaker 1: I hear the birds. I hear the birds. Those are
Speaker 1: not real birds. They sound like they're right next door.
Speaker 3: It's the crisp compression, the legendarily unforgiving noise gates, an
Speaker 3: unmatched EQ Welcome to the mesmerizing digital audio landscape of
Speaker 3: tay Gusta National.
Speaker 1: This is the dumbest thing you've ever done.
Speaker 3: I love it. It's pretty good, right is great? I
Speaker 3: heard it yesterday and I was like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I got to make this a stupid podcast thing because
Speaker 3: that's how my brain is has been shattered into uh
Speaker 3: what a track? And I did throw in fake bird sounds. Ty,
Speaker 3: you got some goldfinches, some robins, and there I did.
Speaker 3: I found, I found the track. And then I said, well,
Speaker 3: I've heard you know, CBS and the Masters they pipe
Speaker 3: in the bird sounds, and who would I be not
Speaker 3: to do the same.
Speaker 1: They've got like a cardinal micd up. You can hear
Speaker 1: it on some holes.
Speaker 3: It's very it's pretty I looked up bird sounds you
Speaker 3: can hear right. Yeah, how's the mix to you? It's good.
Speaker 3: You did. You're pretty good to you.
Speaker 1: Give yourself a little.
Speaker 3: Bit of credit.
Speaker 1: You've done all the nuggets. You've done a lot of
Speaker 1: our shows.
Speaker 3: You know what you're doing. I know, I know. It's
Speaker 3: just Tygusta National and hello friends. Oh so I took
Speaker 3: such a good nap yesterday. It's so good.
Speaker 1: Congratulations Scotti, Scheffler. Yeah, hook them Texas Texas grad. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Texas finally wins something. Yeah, good on him ran away
Speaker 1: with it in the end. Yeah, I mean Texas in
Speaker 1: their lone huge football win. Beat Georgia, and so there's
Speaker 1: some sort of alignment there of Scotty chef Jordan Spi
Speaker 1: has won the Masters. Also a ut guy, Scotti Scheffler,
Speaker 1: originally from I think Ridgeway, New Jersey, which is fairly
Speaker 1: close to me, but moved down to Texas. More of
Speaker 1: a Texas guy golf school. Yeah. Absolutely, so, well, look,
Speaker 1: this has been a fun show. Nate Tice. Go check
Speaker 1: him out. We're huge fans of Nate's work. The show
Speaker 1: that he does with Robert Mays is awesome. If you're
Speaker 1: into all things pro football, go check out the Athletic
Speaker 1: NFL Show. We'll be back on Thursday. I'm going to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about basically what's going on
Speaker 1: in college football. I know that's what we do here.
Speaker 3: It is a college football show.
Speaker 1: But now that we actually have some things to discuss,
Speaker 1: albeit scant with spring games just kind of starting up
Speaker 1: here in the month of April, we'll do our best
Speaker 1: to provide a recap of that. And are we doing
Speaker 1: the Q and A show?
Speaker 3: Is that is that the Yeah? I think we're gonna
Speaker 3: do a MEGAQ and A.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So if you've got questions, if you've got things
Speaker 1: that are pressing that you want to talk more about,
Speaker 1: hit us up Solidverbal at gmail dot com. Of course,
Speaker 1: if you are on the Patreon at verbowlers dot com,
Speaker 1: you can always send us in your thoughts via discord
Speaker 1: via Patreon itself. We'd love to get your thoughts on
Speaker 1: you know, what's going on in college football and what
Speaker 1: types of things we should address next, but we'll do
Speaker 1: that on Thursday. Don't forget in the meantime if you
Speaker 1: did happen upon this show, didn't know about us before,
Speaker 1: Welcome on in Everybody's welcome. Thank you to ty Gustin
Speaker 1: National whatever we're calling this. Yeah, hit the subscriber follow button.
Speaker 1: We'd love to have you back for another show. And last,
Speaker 1: but not least, go to solid giveaway dot com. We
Speaker 1: are giving away free signed aj Brown Minnie helmet. You
Speaker 1: got a couple of weeks to get your name in.
Speaker 3: That hat, all right? So I got notable who's a
Speaker 3: notable Butler? Welcome like welcome to Darius Butler Cabin. I'm
Speaker 3: so sorry for that guy over there, my good friend
Speaker 3: Dan Rubinstein, form myself Tie Hill in the brand. Thanks
Speaker 3: so much for downloading, listening and playing along with our badness.
Speaker 3: At home.
Speaker 1: We'll talk to you all in a few days, and meantime,
Speaker 1: stay solid, peace,