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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: Good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. Ryan is in Mexico

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Speaker 4: and his annual fish vacation, so I'm so happy to

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Speaker 4: be joined for a girl show by Crystal today. How's

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Speaker 4: it going, Crystal?

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Speaker 3: Very good, nice to be here.

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Speaker 1: I actually love that Ryan does this every year, Like

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Speaker 1: has this thing and like commits to it so so

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Speaker 1: much deserved time off. He's been working hardbarding the candle

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Speaker 1: at both ends, so hope he's having a great time.

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Speaker 4: That's for sure. He is a busy man. We have

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Speaker 4: a great show for everyone today. We're going to start

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Speaker 4: with a Supreme Court ruling in Alabama that if you

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Speaker 4: haven't heard about it really is huge, huge news. So

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Speaker 4: we're going to go through that. We're going to talk

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Speaker 4: about Nikki Haley almost fooling the media yesterday into thinking

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Speaker 4: maybe she was going to drop out of the race.

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Speaker 4: She did not spoiler alert, but will break down what's

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Speaker 4: happening in South Carolina. Their primaries on Saturday. So there's

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Speaker 4: a lot to talk about. We're also going to talk

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Speaker 4: about the affirmative action non ruling decision by the United

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Speaker 4: States Supreme Court not to take up an important affirmative

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Speaker 4: action case that has would have had big implications across

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Speaker 4: the board, and the same way that the affirmative action

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Speaker 4: case that they took up last session did have big

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Speaker 4: implications across the board. Crystal is going to break down

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Speaker 4: some developments out of Israel in the last twenty four hours.

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Speaker 4: Big stuff to talk about. The assage hearings have begun

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Speaker 4: Julian Massange in London over a potential extradition. Lots of

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Speaker 4: sound Crystal sound bites from the demonstration outside the courtroom

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Speaker 4: yesterday to break down as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there have been huge protests there.

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Speaker 1: This could be his last chance to block an extradition

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Speaker 1: to the United States. He's of course being charged under

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Speaker 1: the espionage with devastating potential ramifications for the First Amendment.

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Speaker 3: So we'll bring you up to date on that.

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Speaker 1: And also we had to give you a little update

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Speaker 1: on John Stewart. He's back, he's responding to the critics.

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Speaker 1: He's also going after Tucker Carlson. So there was kind

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Speaker 1: of something for everyone there. And we're going to be

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Speaker 1: talking to a guy named Ja D. Belcher. He's an

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Speaker 1: incredible videographer. He's actually out with the new podcast. He's

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Speaker 1: former coal miner who taught himself as the coal mining

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Speaker 1: industry was declining, taught himself all of these video and

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Speaker 1: production skills. Incredibly talented guy, and he's got a new

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Speaker 1: podcast that's very important that looks back at that Upper

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Speaker 1: Big Branch mining disaster. I don't know if you guys

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Speaker 1: remember that digs into what happened, the investigation and how

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Speaker 1: basically greed costs these miners their lives.

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Speaker 3: So super excited to talk to him as well.

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Speaker 4: Just for a reminder to subscribe at breakingpoints dot com

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Speaker 4: so you can get the full Counterpoints show. It goes

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Speaker 4: early to your inbox and you don't get any interruptions

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Speaker 4: and you get to see every clip from counterpart. So

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Speaker 4: breakingpoints dot com to do that. Let's start in Alabama.

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Speaker 4: We can put the first element up on the screen,

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Speaker 4: which is a tear sheet here from the Washington Post.

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Speaker 4: The headline Alabama Supreme Court rules frozen embryos are children

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Speaker 4: Comma imperiling IVF. That's the two parts of the headline there.

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Speaker 4: So on the one hand, you have the Alabama Supreme

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Speaker 4: Court making that ruling. On the secondhand, their implications for IVF.

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Speaker 4: Let's put the second element up on the screen. This

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Speaker 4: is a two a tweet from Ron Brownstein who said

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Speaker 4: the Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Tom Parker quoted the

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Speaker 4: Bible to justify his decision in this case. The quote

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Speaker 4: is human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the

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Speaker 4: wrath of a holy God who views the destruction of

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Speaker 4: his image as an affront to himself. The judge, again,

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Speaker 4: Chief Justice Tom Parker, before that quote, writes that we

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Speaker 4: all agree basically the law is that a human being

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Speaker 4: is made in God's image. And so then you can

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Speaker 4: see how the logic continues in that quote. If we

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Speaker 4: go and dig into this, I will say one of

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Speaker 4: the things interesting here, Krystal, is that the Wrongful Death

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Speaker 4: Act is what's implicated. So that's a civil liability and

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Speaker 4: negligen negligence statute. So it's not to the point where

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Speaker 4: the destruction of embryo's equals murder. It's to the point

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Speaker 4: where the destruction of embryos could implicate somebody in civil

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Speaker 4: liability and in negligence. So obviously this does have massive

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Speaker 4: implications for IVF and the entire industry, which I will

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Speaker 4: say as jarring as it sounds to hear the Chief

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Speaker 4: Justice of Alabama right in terms that sound closer to

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Speaker 4: what you would have heard, you know, maybe around the

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Speaker 4: country's founding and a lot of the founding fathers kind

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Speaker 4: of wrote about law natural law as though it was

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Speaker 4: something obviously and we kind of all agreed derived from

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Speaker 4: one God. So it's jarring to hear that now in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three. Still, this case, the case of embryos,

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Speaker 4: is an odd one because from the perspective of somebody's

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Speaker 4: pro life and I know a lot of people disagree

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Speaker 4: with me on this issue, it is the logical extension

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Speaker 4: of the argument that life begins at conception. So if

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Speaker 4: life begins at conception, then embryos are unique human beings,

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Speaker 4: and a unique human being, unique genetic, genetically unique human being,

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Speaker 4: and the destruction of a genetically unique human being, destruction

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Speaker 4: of a life, and so it's complicated for people in

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Speaker 4: pro life circles to kind of not take that logic

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Speaker 4: to its conclusion. I think, if anything, it would be

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Speaker 4: sort of it would be what's the right word, hypocritical

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Speaker 4: or contradictory for me, for example, to be like, well, no,

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Speaker 4: it's all fine, thrown away, Tossom. And even for some

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Speaker 4: women who have gone through this. This is maybe a

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Speaker 4: silly example, but one of the Real Housewives actually has

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Speaker 4: her frozen embryos etched into like a window on one

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Speaker 4: of our houses like the rest of her children, which

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Speaker 4: again sounds crazy. But for a lot of women and

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Speaker 4: men who freeze their embryos and maybe never get a

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Speaker 4: chance it's so expensive to implant and to go through

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Speaker 4: the process, they do still feel an emotional connection to

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Speaker 4: the embryos. What did you make of this decision, Crystal.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're right that if you do

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Speaker 1: take the pro life position to its logical conclusion, this

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Speaker 1: is exactly the sort of place that you end up,

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Speaker 1: which probably ninety five percent of Americans would find absolutely preposterous.

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Speaker 1: The idea that a frozen embryo is the same as

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Speaker 1: a child. And you're right this decision right now, the

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Speaker 1: implications are I won't even say they're limited, because I

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Speaker 1: do think that this completely upends IVF treatment in the

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Speaker 1: state of Alabama, makes it potentially impossible, and if it

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Speaker 1: still continues, extraordinarily even more expensive than it already is,

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Speaker 1: because as part of that process, you know, it's not

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Speaker 1: just one egg that you seminate, you have multiple that

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Speaker 1: you store in case the first attempt doesn't work, so

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Speaker 1: you have multiple attempts, or if later down the line

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Speaker 1: you want to have a different additional children. And so

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Speaker 1: if you're saying that the destruction of these embryos is

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Speaker 1: equivalent to killing a child effectively, then of course IVF

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Speaker 1: is no longer going to be possible in the state

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Speaker 1: of Alabama, because what are you going to do. You're

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Speaker 1: going to just hold onto these eggs. And definitely, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just on a basic rational, instinctive level, it seems

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Speaker 1: completely insane. Alabama has been the state that has perhaps

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Speaker 1: gone the furthest in terms of banning abortion and in

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Speaker 1: terms of criminalizing action surrounding abortion. In that piece we

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Speaker 1: had up they said, in Alabama, voters pass a ballot

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Speaker 1: measure in twenty eighteen that granted fetus's full personhood rights

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Speaker 1: but did not mention frozen embryos. After the fall of

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Speaker 1: Row and your Total Abortion man went into effect in

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Speaker 1: the state, Alabama now accounts for nearly half of all

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Speaker 1: criminal cases related to pregnancy across the country, according to

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Speaker 1: itally by Pregnancy Justice. Now, it's possible this gets taken

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Speaker 1: up at the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 3: It's possible it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: The other thing that we have to look for is

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Speaker 1: what other states, now that Alabama has sort of gone

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Speaker 1: in this direction, are going to push forward through the courts,

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Speaker 1: through the legal system in a similar direction. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think this is another example, Emily of how ending

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Speaker 1: overturning Roe versus Wade has sort of opened Pandora's box

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Speaker 1: in ways that were almost completely unimaginable, in ways that

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Speaker 1: even in a very conservative red state like Alabama, I

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Speaker 1: guarantee you if you were to put this to the voters,

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Speaker 1: they would also find this insane. That's why you've seen,

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Speaker 1: you know, the pro choice position backed in every single

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Speaker 1: state where it has been put to the voters, including

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Speaker 1: states like Kentucky that are very religious and our very

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Speaker 1: conservative you only have eight percent of the public that

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Speaker 1: agrees that abortion should be banned in all circumstances. So

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Speaker 1: this is the fringe, fringiest of the fringe type of

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Speaker 1: position that you could have. And I do think that

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Speaker 1: it is ironic that, you know, a pro life movement

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Speaker 1: that is, you know, supposed to be very supportive of families,

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Speaker 1: very supportive of you know, families having children.

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Speaker 3: This is effectively an.

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Speaker 1: Assault on couples who are struggling to you know, to

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Speaker 1: get pregnant and to have that child, because it will

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Speaker 1: either make this procedure IVF procedure much more expensive or

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Speaker 1: potentially impossible altogether.

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Speaker 4: Another thing to think about is it comes at a

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Speaker 4: time when a lot of women will say, you know,

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Speaker 4: because they got married later than they wanted to, they're

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Speaker 4: having fewer children that they wanted to, that they turned

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Speaker 4: to IVF as a major option. And that's a huge

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Speaker 4: problem for conservatives. But I'll add this case is such

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Speaker 4: an interesting one. So it goes back to twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: and I'm reading from my colleague in the Federalists now,

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Speaker 4: Jordan Boyd, who writes when a patient at Mobile Infirmary

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Speaker 4: Medical Center wandered into the cryogenic portion of the Center

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Speaker 4: for Reproductive Medicine's facility and tried to remove three separate

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Speaker 4: couple's embryos from freezer storage. The subzero temperatures, according to

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Speaker 4: the lawsuit at which the mbros had been stored, freeze

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Speaker 4: burned the patient's hand, causing the patient to drop the

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Speaker 4: embros on the floor, which killed them, which ended the embryos.

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Speaker 4: So the couple that paid to create and store the

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Speaker 4: embryos actually sued the center under Alabama's Wrongful Death of

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Speaker 4: a Minor Act for failing to protect what they believed

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Speaker 4: to be their last shot at biological children. The Mobile

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Speaker 4: County Circuit Court Judge Jill Parish Phillips, however, tossed the

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Speaker 4: case in twenty twenty two because she believed that cryo

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Speaker 4: preserved in vituro embryos involved in this case do not

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Speaker 4: fit within the definition of a person or a child.

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Speaker 4: So this case actually comes down to someone reaching to

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Speaker 4: a cryogenic secure area, having their hand freeze burned, and

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Speaker 4: dropping embryos. I mean, it's just an incredible kind of

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Speaker 4: glimpse into the technology and the strange places that it

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Speaker 4: brings us to. Crystal. There's no doubt though that this

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Speaker 4: is absolutely a position where it's not politically a palatable

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Speaker 4: position for the vast majority of people. I try to

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Speaker 4: be logically consistent on these things, and I know that

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Speaker 4: it leaves me, you know, in a minority of a

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Speaker 4: minority position. But for Republicans in Alabama, which is the

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Speaker 4: state that has already clamped down an abortion in ways

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Speaker 4: that outpace other red states, definitely not going to be

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Speaker 4: helpful for the prospects of the Republican Party in Alabama

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Speaker 4: or nationwide. That's for sure.

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Speaker 1: I think the Republican Party is probably okay in Alabama.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, this isn't This isn't an isolated instance.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: The even though the goal over many was the overturning

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Speaker 1: of Roe versus Wade, now that Row versus Weide is overturned,

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Speaker 1: as I said, it sort of opened this Pandora's box,

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Speaker 1: and anti abortion activists are pushing things as far as

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Speaker 1: they can go because they, like you, you know, believe

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Speaker 1: that even a frozen embryo is a child, and believe that,

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Speaker 1: you know, dropping frozen eggs on the floor constitutes murder.

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Speaker 1: Now the case, I'm glad you brought it up, because

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Speaker 1: the details of it are incredibly sad. Like there's no

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Speaker 1: doubt that I think that this couple and the other

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Speaker 1: couples that were affected by the negligence shown by this

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Speaker 1: facility in you know, allowing this person in and not

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Speaker 1: making sure that these frozen eggs, which are a precious thing,

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Speaker 1: that they were protected. I don't think anyone would deny

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Speaker 1: that they are owed some sort of you know, civil

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Speaker 1: restitution or the the you know, the destruction of their

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Speaker 1: property and the negligence that led to that.

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Speaker 3: But you don't need to view.

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Speaker 1: These frozen eggs as actual children in order for them

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Speaker 1: to be deserving of, you know, a reward and of

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Speaker 1: compensation for what was done to them here and for

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Speaker 1: the negligence that cause that. There are already laws on

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Speaker 1: the books that would be sufficient in order to, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, to try to compensate this couple for the loss. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, I just think it's emblematic of the wild

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Speaker 1: West that we have now that Rowe is overturned of

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Speaker 1: the incredibly unpopular and extreme positions that you know, politicians,

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Speaker 1: anti abortion activists and you know, basically theocratic judges as

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Speaker 1: in this case, will push things towards and as much

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Speaker 1: as we cover here, and this is a good segue

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Speaker 1: into the next part of this. As much as we

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Speaker 1: cover here the many manifest problems that Joe Biden has

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Speaker 1: in terms of his reelection, you know, this issue is

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Speaker 1: really the one that has kept Democrats in the game

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Speaker 1: in terms of you know, the midterm elections, in terms

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Speaker 1: of all of the special elections, certainly the ballot initiatives

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Speaker 1: that we have seen, because people just find this so

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Speaker 1: extreme and so insane on its face, Yeah, no.

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Speaker 4: Question about it. Let's put this next element up on

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Speaker 4: the screen from the New York Times that goes into

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Speaker 4: and this is a sweeping report about some allies of

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump, not Trump himself, and an important part of

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Speaker 4: the story from the New York Times actually shows where

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Speaker 4: there's disagreement between Donald Trump and some of the Trump

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Speaker 4: allies and kind of the conservative legal world who are

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Speaker 4: already making plans for what his administration potentially if he's

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Speaker 4: elected president, could do on abortion. And one of those things,

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Speaker 4: I like what you said, chrisl the Wild Wild West.

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Speaker 4: One of those things actually would be the Comstock Act.

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Speaker 4: And that's not just according to the New York Times,

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Speaker 4: that's according to Trump ally Jonathan Mitchell talking himself about

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Speaker 4: these potential plans. Now, the Comstock Act, some people might know,

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Speaker 4: or some nerds might know. The sagers out there definitely

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Speaker 4: know all about the Comstock Act, which basically criminalizes luder lascivious.

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Speaker 4: It's only eighteen seventy three louter lssivious stuff through the mail.

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Speaker 4: And so Jonathan Mitchell is saying, because the Comstock agazon

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Speaker 4: the books, all you have to do is basically interpret

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Speaker 4: it more broadly to include abortion medication, so that the

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Speaker 4: kind of myth of pristone that's already up at the

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Speaker 4: Supreme Court for a ruling. If Donald Trump is elected

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Speaker 4: and office again just broadened interpretations of the Comstocked Act,

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Speaker 4: no new legislation has to be passed on the books

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Speaker 4: except for you just have to reinterpret Comstack now. NBC

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Speaker 4: also says policies under consideration by Mitchell and other conservative

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Speaker 4: legal people that might be in a second Trump administration

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Speaker 4: include banning the use of fetal stem cells and medical

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Speaker 4: research for diseases like cancer. We're scinding approval of abortion

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Speaker 4: pills at the FDA and stopping hundreds of millions in

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Speaker 4: federal funding for planned parenthood. Such an action that Times

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Speaker 4: continues against planned parenthood would cripple the nation's largest provider

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Speaker 4: of women's healthcare, would is already struggling to provide abortions

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Speaker 4: in the post Row era. Just some like inside politics

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Speaker 4: on the Trump stuff, he reportedly is okay with a

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Speaker 4: sixteen week federal band, So Lindsey Graham has that plan

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Speaker 4: as the fifteen week band that a lot of Republicans

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Speaker 4: in Washington, kind of establishment circles said, this might be

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Speaker 4: a good political way to deal with the question because

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Speaker 4: that puts the United States in line with Europe and

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Speaker 4: gives Republican politicians the talking point that it puts the

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Speaker 4: United States in line with Europe, and this is sort

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Speaker 4: of a point of consensus that everyone could rally around

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Speaker 4: and doesn't get Republicans into todd ake and territory, but

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Speaker 4: gives them just an easy, sort of end Row type

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Speaker 4: talking point like they had before Row. Donald Trump himself

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Speaker 4: has elevated people like Chris las Savida and others that

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Speaker 4: probably agree with him on abortion, don't want to push

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Speaker 4: it too far. A lot of reporting from inside Trump

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Speaker 4: world that he finds the kind of anti abortion activists

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Speaker 4: in Republican circles be a little weird and you know,

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Speaker 4: politically dangerous. I think that's probably true. Nevertheless, Crystal, if

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Speaker 4: you're installing the conservative legal movement in your administration, things

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Speaker 4: like reinterpretations of the Compact Act are not hard whatsoever

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Speaker 4: to expect.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I thought this piece was really interesting because the all

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Speaker 1: of the media attention and the public attention and the

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Speaker 1: scrutiny of candidates is around the legislation that they might

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Speaker 1: pass around a ban. So, would you pass a six

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Speaker 1: week ban, would you pass a sixteen week ban? You

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Speaker 1: know where would you draw the line? Would you sign

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Speaker 1: that legislation, et cetera. I am, you know, opposed to

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Speaker 1: a fifteen or sixteen week ban. But it's also worth

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Speaker 1: noting that ninety three percent of abortions happen prior to

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Speaker 1: that time, so actually would impact relatively small number of cases. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think we've already seen post row that some of

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Speaker 1: those cases are incredibly important and you know, put women's

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Speaker 1: lives at risk and cause incredible trauma and grief around

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Speaker 1: forcing women to carry to term fetuses that they know,

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Speaker 1: for example, aren't viable. So I don't want to downplay

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Speaker 1: the brief, the trauma and the suffering that would occur

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Speaker 1: if you instituted that ban. But what this article points

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Speaker 1: out is that the real action may not be through

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Speaker 1: the legislative process, because the truth of the matter is,

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Speaker 1: any of those bans are very unlikely, almost impossible to

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Speaker 1: actually pass through Congress. You'd have to have Republicans not

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Speaker 1: only having the White House and the House as at

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Speaker 1: the House they have currently, but they'd also have to

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Speaker 1: have either a filibuster proof majority in the Senate or

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Speaker 1: they would have to get rid of the filibuster in

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Speaker 1: order to move this legislation. Again, very unlikely that you

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Speaker 1: would actually see any of that come to fruition. However,

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Speaker 1: this movement and these thought leaders in the anti abortion

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Speaker 1: movement are ready for an extremely aggressive set of procedures

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Speaker 1: and changes to rules and regulations in order to push

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Speaker 1: forward their agenda without having to passing through Congress. I

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Speaker 1: mean the enforcement of the Comstack Act. Just to underscore

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Speaker 1: for everyone, if they actually went in that direction, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that is a de facto national abortion ban. If you

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Speaker 1: are now criminalizing making illegal the mailing the shipping of

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Speaker 1: any of the materials that you would need to perform abortions,

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Speaker 1: and you basically banned abortion nationwide, and that also could

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Speaker 1: apply to.

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Speaker 3: Birth control by the way.

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Speaker 1: So that's the train that we're talking about now, you

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Speaker 1: might say, and Emily, you I think you know laid

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Speaker 1: this out quite well. Trump used to be a planned

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Speaker 1: parenthood supporter, Like I don't think anyone believes that near

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Speaker 1: and dear to his heart is this issue or that

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Speaker 1: he necessarily views the world the way that anti abortion

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Speaker 1: activists do. However, we know in his first term in

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Speaker 1: office was very important to him to install on the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court justices who are going to be part of

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Speaker 1: overturning role versus the way they did exactly that he

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Speaker 1: had some of these same you know, religious right conservative

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Speaker 1: activist types in his administration. They did, in fact use

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Speaker 1: executive action to push forward the pro life agenda at

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Speaker 1: that time. And now that you have Roe overturned, you

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Speaker 1: have so much more that they are able to do

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Speaker 1: in order to push forward that agenda. So it's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily the question of does Trump himself believe this is

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Speaker 1: Trump himself going to be championing this? Where does Trump

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Speaker 1: draw the line in terms of what type of a

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Speaker 1: band he would enact? The question is who's he putting

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Speaker 1: in these positions and how much free reign is he

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Speaker 1: going to ultimately give them, And I think based on

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Speaker 1: the track record of the first administration, it looks like

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Speaker 1: he would give them quite a lot of room to maneuver.

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Speaker 3: And it would be, you know, a.

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Speaker 1: Huge boon to the anti abortion movement to have him

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Speaker 1: back in office in ways that you know, I think

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Speaker 1: most Americans would be kind of horrified and shocked by.

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Speaker 4: And not just the anti abortion movement. We can put

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Speaker 4: the next element up on the screen here. This is

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Speaker 4: dive from Politico into Russ Vote, who runs the Center

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Speaker 4: for Renewing America, which is trying to he was Trump's

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Speaker 4: O and B director. He's seen as somebody who's and

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Speaker 4: I actually like Russ Vote. He's seen as somebody in

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Speaker 4: conservative circles who's like a policy wonk and is trying

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Speaker 4: to put a blueprint together for what a policy age

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Speaker 4: and through some of the administrative agencies might look like

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Speaker 4: in a second term for Donald Trump, but even another

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Speaker 4: Republican president in general. A lot of these plans are

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Speaker 4: generic enough that they're sort of plug and play with

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Speaker 4: a potential Republican presidency. But Politica looked at what Russ

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Speaker 4: means when he talks about Christian nationalism. And I do

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Speaker 4: think there's something interesting here because basically Chevron Doctrine is

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Speaker 4: at the Supreme Court right now, which is some people

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Speaker 4: say it will be more if it's overturned by Supreme Court,

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Speaker 4: as is expected, it'll be more influential. Others people say

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Speaker 4: it actually won't be as influential as a lot of

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Speaker 4: conservatives think it will be. But basically the ambition of

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Speaker 4: conservative in the conservative legal movement, which is long sought

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Speaker 4: to overturn Chevron Doctrine is that it curtails the powers

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Speaker 4: of the administrative state. One of the big debates during

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Speaker 4: the Trump administration was why don't conservatives come in and

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Speaker 4: start using the powers of the administrative state through ways

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Speaker 4: like reinterpretations of the Comstock Act, all these laws that

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Speaker 4: have been on the books for a really long time.

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Speaker 4: And so Politico is saying that russ Vote is trying

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Speaker 4: to reinterpret all these kinds of statutes. They say, for example,

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Speaker 4: top priorities could include the insurrection invoking the Insurrection Act

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Speaker 4: on day one to quash protests, and refusing to spend

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Speaker 4: authorized congressional funds on unwanted projects, a practice banned by

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Speaker 4: lawmakers in the Nixon era, but one of their bullet

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Speaker 4: points is just broadly Christian nationalism. So russ Vote has

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Speaker 4: written that Christian nationalism is actually rather benign and useful

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Speaker 4: description for those who believe in both preserving our country's

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Speaker 4: Judaeo Christian heritage and making public policy decisions that are

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Speaker 4: best for this country. The term need not be subjected

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Speaker 4: to such intense scored due to misunderstanding or slander. But Crystals,

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Speaker 4: it's true that the broad label of Christian nationalism has

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Speaker 4: connotations that range from QAnon to the description that rush

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Speaker 4: just wrote, which is fairly benign mainstream conservative position, not

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Speaker 4: broadly representative of the country, and maybe a slice of

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Speaker 4: thirty five forty percent of the country would say, okay,

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Speaker 4: that sounds fine. But Christian nationalism has different connotations based

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Speaker 4: on which audience you're speaking to. So using it definitely

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Speaker 4: opens up yourself to not yourself, obviously, Crystal, but russ

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Speaker 4: Vote to stories like this one in.

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Speaker 1: Politico, Well, it's open opening all of us up to something,

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Speaker 1: for sure. I mean, it's you know, it's very reflective

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Speaker 1: of like the way that that judge wrote his decision

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Speaker 1: concurring opinion on the Alabama you know, eggs are children

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Speaker 1: decision where he is, you know, feels comfortable directly invoking

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Speaker 1: his own personal religious beliefs, which I think is totally

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Speaker 1: out of line in terms of just interpreting the law

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Speaker 1: and a pluralistic society that you know, a key value

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Speaker 1: is separation of church and state, and ci key value

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Speaker 1: is pluralism and the acceptance and equality of all people,

436
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: regardless of their religious beliefs. So I think that's where

437
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 1: a lot of Americans react very negatively to the idea

438
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: that you're going to infuse an official government with an

439
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: official you know, religious policy. And some of the things

440
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,360
Speaker 1: that you know come out of this movement. Also, one

441
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: of the key allies of Russvoyd is the sky something

442
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: wolf and he what's his first name?

443
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 3: Is it Ryan Wolfe?

444
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: I want to say Tom Wilf, but that's the author anyway.

445
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: You know, some things that he supports are like ending

446
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 1: sex education in schools, ending surrogacy, ending no fault divorce

447
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: throughout the country. So those are the types of ideas

448
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 1: that are associated with this movement. And then there's also,

449
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 1: to me, very counter to what I know of Christianity,

450
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 1: this incredibly hard line anti immigrant policy as well, you

451
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: know that is voiced and articulated and would be implemented

452
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: by someone like Stephen Miller, who wants to end asylum

453
00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 1: all together, and you know, take even more draconian measures

454
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: than were taken in the first Trump administration with regard

455
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: to immigration. But you know, on some of those things

456
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: that the ending of no fault divorce, the ending of surrogacy,

457
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 1: you know, the imposition of a religious view on people

458
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: who don't necessarily share that religious view. It makes me

459
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: think emily of the backlash to Democrats and the you know,

460
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: woke left about this feeling that they were getting too

461
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: involved in people's lives, policing their words, policing their behavior

462
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 1: all the time, and there was a huge backlash to that,

463
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: And I think similarly, there'd be a huge backlash to

464
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: the idea of delving into people's you know, personal and

465
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: sexual affairs in this same way that I mean, frankly

466
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: we saw with like nineties era conservatism and all of

467
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: the moral panics around that. So you know, it's hard

468
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: to say. I think you would have to expect that

469
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,920
Speaker 1: because of the way that Trump ran his administration last time.

470
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 1: Because a number of these people actually in the administration

471
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: last time that you probably would give them a lot

472
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: of bandwidth. And I think that that is very scary

473
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: and very uncomfortable for a lot of people who do

474
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: not want to go in this particular direction.

475
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 4: There's so much to talk about there. I mean also,

476
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 4: by the way, William Wolf, not Ryan Wolf. Sorry that's

477
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 4: my bad. But Sager's formulation of barstool conservatism is very

478
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 4: much understood, and I bet you has been circulated by

479
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 4: people in the Trump orbit, not the rest votes of

480
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,239
Speaker 4: the world so much as the political side, people who

481
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 4: are you know, running campaigns and thinking about how best

482
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 4: to run campaigns, and they definitely understand that there's this

483
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 4: weirdness that can be kind of associated with conservatives who

484
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,400
Speaker 4: are pursuing these ends. On the other hand, you have,

485
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 4: you know something, I think this is a good point.

486
00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 4: Like sam Alito when he wrote his opinion in Wade,

487
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 4: was looking back at natural law and how natural law,

488
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 4: absolutely the Western formulation of natural law, hinges on this

489
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 4: idea that people are endowed by rights from their creator,

490
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 4: by a God. And so you have that tension with

491
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 4: people like russ Vote, with conservative kind of intellectuals in

492
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 4: that space who say, well, if we're pursuing this to

493
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 4: its logical end, and if we really believe this, then

494
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 4: there are all kinds of mechanisms that we should be

495
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 4: really looking at instead of just kind of A lot

496
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,320
Speaker 4: of people will kind of mock the National review slogan,

497
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 4: standing athwart history, yelling stop, why don't you actually do something? Now,

498
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 4: there's a lot of conservatives who feel like the you know,

499
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 4: under the Bush administration, the first Trump administration, everything was

500
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 4: allowed to continue metastasizing, and there should be levers pulled

501
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 4: instead of being ignored. So there's there's a huge tension

502
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 4: there that needs to be resolved within the conservative movement,

503
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 4: and it may be resolved in a administration, which you

504
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 4: know is entirely plausible at this point. Yeah.

505
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: Well, if conservatives want to go in the direction of

506
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: you know, thinking that frozen eggs are kids, and ending

507
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: fall divorce and trying to roll back gay marriage and

508
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: you know, ending surrogacy, etc. Banning porn, et cetera, good

509
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: luck electorally. I don't think the American people are with

510
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: you on that.

511
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 4: One one candidate who would not be interested in pursuing

512
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 4: the vast majority of these policy proposals is Nicky Haley,

513
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 4: who kind of pulled a fast one yesterday. Though it's

514
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 4: not entirely surprising that some members of our whys and

515
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 4: just sagacious media were easily duped by a political candidate.

516
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 4: Let's take a look at Nicki Haley's speech yesterday, where

517
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 4: a lot of people in the press actually thought because

518
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 4: she's called for the speech in the middle of the day,

519
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 4: meant she was dropping out of the South Carolina primary,

520
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 4: which is set to happen this Saturday. Let's take a

521
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 4: listen to what Nicki Haley.

522
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 5: In a general election, you're given a choice in a primary,

523
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 5: you make your choice. Make sure you make the right choice.

524
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 5: Make your voices heard today, tomorrow, and on Saturday. Some

525
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 5: of you, perhaps a few of you in the media

526
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 5: came here today to see if I'm dropping out of

527
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 5: the race.

528
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 3: Well I'm not.

529
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 5: Far from it, and I'm here to tell you why

530
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,480
Speaker 5: I'm running for president, because we have a country to save.

531
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 4: Oh wow, okay, I didn't know that. So Nikki Haley

532
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: also thought, let's put this graphic up on the screen. Well,

533
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 4: Nikki Haley claims that people just need a choice. This

534
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 4: USA Today pull from her own home state. Take a

535
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 4: look at this if you're listening and can't see this

536
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 4: on the screen. Donald Trump, according to this new USA

537
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 4: Today poll, is up sixty three percent to Nikki Haley's

538
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 4: thirty five percent in South Carolina, just absolutely getting trounced

539
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 4: in her homes in her home state. They both have

540
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 4: net favorable ratings according to the Suffolk University USA Today poll.

541
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 4: That's actually kind of an interesting point from this. He's

542
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 4: more popular though, so while both of them have a

543
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 4: favorable rating among Republican primary voters. And this is this poll.

544
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 4: The numbers we just showed are among very likely primary voters,

545
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:31,959
Speaker 4: which is different than how a lot of polls will

546
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 4: find likely voters very likely is it could depart from

547
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 4: the finals, you know, based on people who actually end

548
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 4: up coming out but very likely to vote in the

549
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 4: state's Republican primary. She's trailing two to one. Trump is

550
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 4: at sixty four percent popularity. She's at forty seven percent

551
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 4: popularity among primary voters, which is another really interesting point.

552
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 4: So well, just about half of voters find her favorable

553
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 4: Republican primary voters very likely Republican primary voters, He's at

554
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 4: sixty four percent. She holds a wide lead according to

555
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 4: USA Today like she did in other states. Among those

556
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 4: quote who identify themselves as liberals or moderates, she's up

557
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 4: fifty nine percent to thirty eight percent, and she has

558
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 4: a narrow lead among those who are voting in the

559
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 4: GOP primary for the first time. So probably a similar

560
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 4: demo that would be a lead of fifty one to

561
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 4: forty nine percent, surely within the margin of error. In

562
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 4: this poll, she has her biggest advantage over Trump sixty

563
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 4: three to thirty seven percent. Quote among those who say

564
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 4: the most important issue is the future of democracy for

565
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 4: that for them on Saturday, only thirteen percent of those

566
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 4: surveys say democracy is their biggest concern, though ranked at

567
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 4: top was immigration and border security that was at forty

568
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 4: two percent. Some more on why Nikki Heely is actually

569
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 4: running for president despite what she said about people desperately

570
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 4: needing a choice. Let's put this sex element up on

571
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 4: the screen. This is some more plans. This is from

572
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 4: Steve Peoples of the Associated Press reported that she's Nicki

573
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 4: Haley and her campaign are dropping more than five hundred

574
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 4: thousand dollars on a new TV ad that is set

575
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 4: to begin running in Michigan on Wednesday. So in Michigan.

576
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 4: South Carolina is on Saturday. She's running ads in Michigan

577
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 4: starting on Wednesday. Her post South Carolina travel schedule features

578
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 4: ten high dollar fundraising events as part of seven day

579
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 4: campaign swinging across Michigan, Minnesota, Colorado, Utah, Virginia, Washington, d C,

580
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 4: North Carolina, and Massachusetts. She said she is not leaving

581
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 4: the primary even if she's blown out on Saturday. She

582
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 4: vowed to stay in the fight, according to Peoples Against

583
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, at least until after Super Tuesday, if not longer. So, Crystal,

584
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 4: I think that tells you everything you need to know

585
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 4: about the Haley candidacy at this point, which is attempting

586
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,600
Speaker 4: to I think, let's say, help Nikki Haley's brand among

587
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 4: the sort of never Trump elite media donor class who

588
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 4: will now see her as their last best. Help maybe

589
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 4: shower her and some money so that she can make

590
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 4: a stand, get her numbers up on Super Tuesday. She's

591
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 4: certainly not going to win South Carolina. She's not going

592
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 4: to Even if she won South Carolina, she would not

593
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 4: be able to win the Republican primary. Mathematically might give

594
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 4: her some momentum going into Super Tuesday, but even then

595
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 4: the polls would have to change dramatically for her to

596
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 4: mathematically have any path to Republican nomination. So I'm curious

597
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 4: if you agree with me, Krystel that at this point

598
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 4: she's just kind of running a campaign for the elite media,

599
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 4: kind of virtue signaling crowd.

600
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's part of it. You know, early on,

601
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: I had actually predicted that she may, excuse me, hang

602
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: around in this race in spite of the fact that

603
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: it's increasingly humiliating. I mean, to lose to Donald Trump,

604
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 1: probably by a margin of two to one in your

605
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: home state, even a place where you know you're still

606
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: pretty popular and where you governed in a very conservative

607
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: way like that is incredibly humiliating. But I thought she

608
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: might hang around for two reasons. The one is the

609
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: one you laid out, which is, you know, to secure

610
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: her brand and potential like either corporate or media gigs

611
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: moving forward. Or two, with the thought of, hey, he's

612
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: got all these criminal cases hanging out there. Maybe something

613
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 1: happens before the Republican nominating convention, and then I'm the

614
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: one who's you know, they're still in the race and

615
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: has you know, potentially picked up some delegates and I've

616
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: got the inside track then to pick up the pieces

617
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: if some black Swan event occurs and Donald Trump is

618
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: no longer in the race and there's an opening for that.

619
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's why donors continue to give

620
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: to her. I think that's a big part of it,

621
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,840
Speaker 1: just to have that sort of option open. Although I

622
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: have to say, I'm not sure that really would work

623
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: out even if you know, something crazy did happen and

624
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: Donald Trump dropped out of the race, Like, it's not

625
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: clear to me that she would be just by merit

626
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: of the fact that she's still hanging out getting embarrassed

627
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: and stayed after state that she would be the person

628
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: that would be the go to if you know that

629
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 1: eventuality was to come to pass. So I can't say

630
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: I totally understand it at this point, which is why

631
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: so many in the media were like, she must be

632
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: dropping out, right, because this just doesn't really make sense anymore.

633
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: But nope, not only is she not dropping out, she

634
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: is proceeding on and spending money and doing fundraisers, which

635
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: I think is kind of like the key part of

636
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: her quote unquote campaign. At this point, I do want

637
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: to say, I mean, I just think that the Nicky

638
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: Hayley that she has become viewed as this sort of

639
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: like liberal.

640
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 3: Or moderate or whatever within the Republican primary.

641
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: It just shows you how the whole of our politics,

642
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: really on the Republican and the Democratic side, has just

643
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: become defined by Donald Trump.

644
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 3: And so even though on a lot.

645
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: Of issues she's at least as conservative as Trump, perhaps

646
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: more conservative than Trump, and governed in a very you know,

647
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: traditional right wing kind of a way when she was

648
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: governor of South Carolina, just the fact that she'll say

649
00:35:54,840 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 1: anything even moderately critical of Trump makes her re as

650
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: like this resistance lib and not just on the Republican side,

651
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: you know, but also, uh, you know, that's why she

652
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: would have this media career. And we've seen this trajectory

653
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: a million times, from like the rehabbing of George W. Bush,

654
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: Nicole Wallace having an MSNBC show and all of these things.

655
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 1: Your position on Donald Trump is like the totality of

656
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: how you end up getting defined and viewed in the

657
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,240
Speaker 1: political sphere at this point, which is one of the

658
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: more uh, one of the things that I have found

659
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 1: most distressing about the Trump era and been most frustrated

660
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: within the Trump era because it just means any sort

661
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: of like real policy considerations just don't even exist.

662
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 3: It's just all about how do you feel about this

663
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 3: one person.

664
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 4: You forgot resistant resistance, lib Jump Bolton, Bill Crystal, who

665
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 4: we can add to the list just stallwards of progressivism.

666
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 4: At this point, you said something so interesting about how

667
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 4: it's like obviously humiliating for Nikki Haley with like the

668
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 4: vast majority of the country. And I think there's a

669
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 4: I mean, getting trounce in your home state, which you

670
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 4: really staked out as an important part of your campaign,

671
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 4: and then you know, apparently being down by thirty points

672
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 4: heading into election week. What's interesting about that is Nikki

673
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 4: Haley doesn't care about the demographic that is going to

674
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 4: find this embarrassing. She cares, to your point, Crystal, about

675
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 4: establishing herself as the air apparent, the kind of Republican

676
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 4: establishments air apparent to Donald Trump. And you can do

677
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 4: that by continuing to like make this brave stand with donors,

678
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 4: so the donor class and people in the media, the

679
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 4: Morning Joe sect. And the last point I want to

680
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 4: make Crystals that that is so true. She did govern

681
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 4: and Jacobin has actually had some really good coverage Branko

682
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 4: over there has had some good coverage of Nikki Haley's

683
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 4: policy record. She did really govern as a traditional conservative,

684
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 4: and by that I mean a crony capitalist who was

685
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 4: showering boeing in the tax breaks and subsidies, and then,

686
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 4: obviously everyone knows from your guys's excellent coverage, jumped on

687
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 4: over to their board. That's as traditional conservative as it gets.

688
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Crystal, Yeah, well, it's not like Trump doesn't do

689
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 1: that same crap.

690
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,080
Speaker 3: You know they'll do it.

691
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, So it's not like she's different from him

692
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: on that issue. Obviously, his he passed a very traditional

693
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,919
Speaker 1: tax cut for corporations and rich people, authored effectively by

694
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: like Paul Ryan, as his major act in office.

695
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 3: So you know.

696
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 1: The thing with Nikki, though at this point that still

697
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 1: doesn't even really make sense to me, is I don't

698
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: even think the Morning Joke people really like her either,

699
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: because she was part of the Trump administration. I mean,

700
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: she was licking those guy's boots up until three minutes

701
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 1: ago and still is very very tempered in her criticism

702
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: of him.

703
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 3: And it's not like she went full.

704
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: Chris Christie and even with Chris Christie because he hung

705
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 1: with Trump for so long, even among the resistance lives,

706
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 1: there's still a lot of skepticism of him. So even

707
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 1: in a lane of like let me puss myself or

708
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: my resistance lib media gig post campaign, like, I'm not

709
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: really sure that she's even accomplishing that.

710
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 3: So I don't know.

711
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: The best I can figure is the donors want are in,

712
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 1: and she's willing to take the humiliation because they're her

713
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 1: meal ticket after this embarrassing campaign is over, and they

714
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: just want her there as like a potential option in

715
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: case in the one percent chance that something crazy happens,

716
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: and maybe that gives her an inside lane. Maybe it doesn't,

717
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 1: but at least they've got like an option on the table.

718
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: That's the best that I can do to make sense

719
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: of what she's doing at this point.

720
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's trying to impress them and people in the

721
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 4: in the suburbs so that she can point and say

722
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 4: that she's a viable candidate in the post Trump Republican Party.

723
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 4: It may be that she's more palatable than a lot

724
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 4: of people like a Doug Mastriano in the Republican Party,

725
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 4: but she's looking for ways to appointed that. But of course,

726
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 4: when we saw in Iowa. She she even got trounced

727
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 4: in the suburbs. She even got trounced in areas that

728
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 4: like she got trannscedent areas that were less affluent and

729
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 4: more affluent. She won one college town county. So that

730
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 4: argument for Nikki Haley, I'm curious if she becomes more

731
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 4: Christy esque after the South Carolina primary, and if you know,

732
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 4: in order to stanch some of the bleeding in South Carolina,

733
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 4: She's continued to be a little bit tempered in her

734
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 4: criticism of Trump, and then after the South Carolina primary,

735
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 4: it s takes out a position that's more similar to

736
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 4: Chris Christie. I think that would make sense because she

737
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 4: knows she's not gonna win any of these races. So

738
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 4: we'll see Crystal about that. More court news yesterday, in

739
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 4: this fascinating Virginia case, Thomas Jefferson High School in Fairfax,

740
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 4: that the Supreme Court decided not to take up in

741
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 4: a big decision yesterday that actually the decision not to

742
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 4: take up this case involved descents. Alito and Thomas wrote

743
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 4: a descent on the Court's decision simply not to take

744
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 4: up the case. Let's put this first tear sheet on

745
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 4: the screen. This is from the New York Times, the

746
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 4: headline Supreme Court won't hear new case on race and

747
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 4: school admissions. The decision, along with an order this month

748
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,280
Speaker 4: declining to block West Points admissions program, suggests that most

749
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 4: justices are not eager to immediately explore the limits of

750
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 4: its ruling from June. We can move on, actually, and

751
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 4: put this next tweet up on the screen. This is

752
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 4: from Ed Whalen, who's someone fairly big and conservative legal circles,

753
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 4: and he noted that this reflected from his position timidity

754
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 4: among the conservative court justices in taking up certain cases,

755
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 4: so deciding which cases to make determinations on and two

756
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 4: weigh that might seem kind of crazy to people on

757
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 4: the left who would say, well, this court took up Row,

758
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 4: it took up the Dobbs case, and then made a

759
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 4: sweeping judgment on Row, which didn't have to be the

760
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 4: case in Dobbs didn't have to completely overturn Roe, and

761
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 4: it did. So there's a lot going on here. Again,

762
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,399
Speaker 4: this is a case out of Virginia. I just want

763
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 4: to talk a little bit about it. So they ruled

764
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 4: back in June on students for fair admissions. Via Harvard

765
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 4: and you know there's a petition or there's a coalition

766
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 4: it's called the Coalition for TJ that's based out in Virginia,

767
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 4: who said, because they didn't take up this Thomas Jefferson

768
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,560
Speaker 4: High School case, it might mean little if schools could

769
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 4: accomplish the same discriminatory result through race neutral proxies. And

770
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 4: that is an interesting segue into the argument about the

771
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 4: TJ policies, which, just to get into a little bit,

772
00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 4: the school says are both race neutral and race blind.

773
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 4: Their new policy was not designed to produce and did

774
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 4: not effect produce a student population that approximates the racial

775
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 4: demographics of Fairfax County or any other predetermined racial balance.

776
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 4: The Times notes after the changes went into effect, So

777
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 4: this is, again, according to critics, proxies instead of directly

778
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 4: using race, using factors that are sort of the wink wink,

779
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 4: you know, determination, the wink wink proxies for race in

780
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 4: order to, according to critics of the policies, create the

781
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 4: same racial outcomes. So the Times notes, after the changes

782
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 4: went into affection twenty twenty one, the percentage of Asian

783
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 4: American students offered admission dropped to fifty four percent from

784
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 4: seventy three percent, The percentage of black students grew to

785
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 4: eight percent from no more than two percent, the percentage

786
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 4: of Hispanic students grew to eleven percent from three percent,

787
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 4: and the percentage of white students grew to twenty two

788
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 4: percent from eighteen percent. In the Fairfax County school System

789
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty, about thirty seven percent of students were white,

790
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 4: twenty seven percent with their Hispanic, twenty percent were Asian,

791
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 4: and ten percent were black. Alito's descent said. What the

792
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 4: Fourth Circuit majority held in essence is that intentional racial

793
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 4: discrimination is constitutional so long as it is not too severe.

794
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 4: This reasoning is indefensible and it cries out for correction.

795
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 4: Even though the new policy bore quote more heavily on

796
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 4: Asian American applicants, the panel majority held that there were

797
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 4: no there was no disparate impact because they were still

798
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 4: over represented in the TJ student body. That is clearly

799
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 4: a mistaken understanding of what it means for a law

800
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 4: or policy to have a disparate effect on the members

801
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 4: of a particular racial and ethnic group. He sounds a

802
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 4: little bit there like critics from the left actually of

803
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 4: a lot of policies that end up having a disparate

804
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 4: outcome even if they have equal opportunity. Sort of policies that,

805
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,240
Speaker 4: even if they're sort of staked on equal opportunity legally,

806
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 4: will have a disparate impact in the outcome. Crystal, what

807
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 4: did you make of this decision?

808
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, just to give a little bit more background.

809
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: As a Native Virginians attended University of Virginia, I'm very

810
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: familiar with Thomas Jefferson High School, or TJ as it

811
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: is effectively known and affectionately known.

812
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 3: It is one of, if not.

813
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: The top public high school in the entire country. Is

814
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: famously very selective. It takes students from Fairfax County, Alexander, Arlington,

815
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 1: sort of like the northern Virginia, you know, immediate suburbs,

816
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 1: and so it is has been very highly selective. And

817
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: the previous criteria for admitutes was basically, I mean, there

818
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,359
Speaker 1: were a number of factors, but it was basically an

819
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: exam process.

820
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 3: And there were few.

821
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,279
Speaker 1: Middle schools in the region that became known as like

822
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: feeder schools for TJ.

823
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 3: And so if you had.

824
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: The money to be able to, you know, live and

825
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: move into those districts where you could attend those middle schools,

826
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 1: you had a huge leg up. So what they decided

827
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: to do, and this came in the wake of George

828
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: Floyd and the Black Lives Matter protest, which is part

829
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: of what raised suspicions that this had more to do

830
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: with racial rebalancing and potential affirmative action than with you know,

831
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 1: this sort of like race blind approach that they are claiming.

832
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: But what they decided to do is rather than relying

833
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: on this exam process, which left a lot of students,

834
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: there were I think eight middle schools in the region

835
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 1: that wouldn't send any students, none of their kids would

836
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: get admitted to TJ, they decided to adopt something that's

837
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: actually very similar to what Texas does with regard to

838
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: their public university system. They said, we're going to look

839
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: at taking the top students from every middle school and

840
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 1: when we're doing our evaluations, because it's not just your GPA,

841
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: there are a couple other factors that are considered, so

842
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: there's still is an evaluation process. We are not going

843
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,760
Speaker 1: to know your name, we're not going to know your race,

844
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: we're not going to know your gender, so that we

845
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: can really try to be sure that we're not being

846
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 1: discriminatory in any manner. So for me looking at this

847
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: as someone who doesn't support racial affirmative action, who is

848
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: actually glad you know that the Supreme Court ruled the

849
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 1: way that it did, this is much closer to almost

850
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: like class based affirmative action. That reflects that, you know,

851
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: kids who grow up with fewer means in a tougher

852
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: neighborhood have extraordinary challenges to overcome, and so if they

853
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: are the top students in that neighborhood, they are still

854
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:14,440
Speaker 1: extraordinary and deserving of entrance here. To me, if the

855
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: Supreme Court had come in and struck down this admissions

856
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 1: process just because it's somewhat changed the you know, racial

857
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: demographics being admitted to the school, that would effectively be saying, well,

858
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: you can't change your admissions policy ever, no matter what

859
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: if it changes the current racial quota whatsoever. So in

860
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: a way, it would make it once again like racially obsessed,

861
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: like we have to stick to this current but you

862
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,240
Speaker 1: know racial quotient that we have right now in the school,

863
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: and you can't change the admission process whatsoever if it

864
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: is going to change that at all. So I think

865
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 1: it made a lot of sense. I support the fact

866
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: that they did not decide to intervene here, and that

867
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,279
Speaker 1: this admissions process, which again doesn't even allow them to

868
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: know the race of the kids that they are considering

869
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:07,360
Speaker 1: for admittance, and will likely lead to more broad demographic

870
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,919
Speaker 1: not just racially, but also in terms of class representation.

871
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,480
Speaker 1: I fully support that, And just to reiterate one thing

872
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 1: Emily that I had just said. In Texas with regards

873
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: to their public university system, they admit the top I

874
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 1: believe it is ten percent of Texas high schoolers throughout

875
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: the whole state for a very similar reason to try

876
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: to have class diversity and other forms of diversity, as

877
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: well as a reflection of the fact that you know,

878
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: depending on the zip code you're in, we wish that

879
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 1: everything was equal, but we know that it's not, and

880
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: if you're coming up through in a certain neighborhood, through

881
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,640
Speaker 1: a certain school system, you may have additional odds and

882
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,480
Speaker 1: different additional challenges to overcome. So they want to have

883
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: the total demographic and class class dynamics reflected in Texas

884
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 1: in their public universities, and I think they're doing a

885
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: similar thing here with TJ.

886
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 4: The TJ story has been in credit because you have

887
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 4: a lot of minority parents who have rallied and in

888
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 4: some ways, you know, become affiliated with conservative groups despite

889
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 4: not having a lot of conservative leanings over their frustrations

890
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 4: with some of these initial policies that we've seen that

891
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 4: happen with affirmative action cases a lot. The continue issue

892
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 4: that I imagine people like Ed Whalen are talking about

893
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 4: is a lot of universities hopefully, hopefully there's some real

894
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:30,520
Speaker 4: class diversity that comes through these policies. When I've looked

895
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 4: at how some universities have used these proxy policies, it

896
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 4: seems like they're still trying to do the same thing

897
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 4: with race. Like some of their outcomes look really suspect

898
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 4: rather than like they're using them for the good. But

899
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 4: I actually think in paper, I agree with you. On paper, Crystal,

900
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,279
Speaker 4: I agree with you these policies should allow for more

901
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 4: class diversity, and hopefully that's the case. It doesn't bother

902
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 4: me that the Supreme Court decided to stay out of

903
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 4: this one, but I think some of the conservative critics

904
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,239
Speaker 4: are right that deciding to stay out of this one

905
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,160
Speaker 4: will allow you know, diversities to continue making policies like

906
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 4: this that could still have similar ramifications to what happened

907
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 4: in students for the students for fair missions case. But

908
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,680
Speaker 4: hopefully those policies actually work out better. But you know,

909
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 4: it's just depending on how each school determines they should

910
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 4: be implemented.

911
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 1: Let me just say one more thing about this, which

912
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 1: is that I do really empathize with the I mean,

913
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,880
Speaker 1: it's mostly Asian parents who are pushing back against this,

914
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: who feel like Asian kids are being discriminated against that

915
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 1: the sentiment was there's you know, it's seventy three percent

916
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: of Asians, you're being admitted to this school, and it

917
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: needs to be more represented.

918
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 3: Like if you are that parent who you.

919
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: Know scrimped and saved and moved into that neighborhood to

920
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,839
Speaker 1: get your kid in that feeder middle school and do

921
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: all the test prep, and like you've been lining this

922
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: up for years and you've been focused on it, and

923
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: now they're changing the rules of the game.

924
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:57,920
Speaker 3: I do deeply like that is a lot. I do

925
00:50:58,040 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 3: deeply empathize.

926
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: So I don't want to press like I'm callous to

927
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: the fact that you know you had a plan, you

928
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,399
Speaker 1: may have sacrificed to try to get your kid into

929
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,839
Speaker 1: this position, and now you feel like they're being put

930
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: at a disadvantage, whereas if they had gone to, you know,

931
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,399
Speaker 1: a different middle school in a less expensive area, now

932
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: they'd be on kind of the inside track to get

933
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: into teaching. I understand that that is experienced and is

934
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: potentially a genuine loss. However, I do think that just

935
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,959
Speaker 1: on the face, you know, the fact that the public

936
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,320
Speaker 1: school board decided we're going to change our admissions policy

937
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: in this way, that it's important to have the you know,

938
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: class and demographic and other demographic characteristics more fully represented,

939
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,280
Speaker 1: and they're doing it in a way that is race blind.

940
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: I do think that that's a superior outcome in the

941
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,480
Speaker 1: long term, even as I understand that for many of

942
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,479
Speaker 1: these parents this is being experienced as a real loss

943
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: and dramatically unfair to them in the short term. And

944
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 1: the last thing I'll say about that is, you know,

945
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: it is a problem in and of itself to have

946
00:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: a few middle schools in the county and in the

947
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 1: region as like the top middle schools that all of

948
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: the you know, wealthy families want to go to with

949
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,600
Speaker 1: the top students want to go to, and that creates

950
00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: a self fulfilling inequality amongst the schools in the whole district.

951
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 1: So I also think over the long term this will

952
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 1: likely bring up the level of all of the middle

953
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,239
Speaker 1: schools in the district as you have more sort of

954
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: broad sorting across the county. And you know that has

955
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,880
Speaker 1: been shown studies have shown that having more racial and

956
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: class in particular of a mix in schools improves the

957
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,319
Speaker 1: quality of those schools for everyone. So I also think

958
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: that that will likely be an outcome of this policy

959
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 1: as well. So in that way, I see it as

960
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 1: an improvement. And I'm glad again that the Supreme Court

961
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: did not intervene here and allow them to make this change.

962
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,240
Speaker 4: That is such an important broader point. And the last

963
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 4: thing that I'll say is I also I think the

964
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 4: Supreme Court decision last Yune probably did have a chilling

965
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 4: effect on houseos are implementing race blind policies. So hopefully

966
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 4: that's some good news for the sake of fairness and

967
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,879
Speaker 4: justice in this case as well.

968
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 1: So some big news yesterday at the UN with regards

969
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: to Israel. Let's put this up on the screen the

970
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: US once again, this is the third time now blocking

971
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,839
Speaker 1: a ceasefire resolution in the UN Security Council. By the way,

972
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: side note, The framing of this Guardian headline is very strange.

973
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: They say US veto's Arab backed UN resolution demanding ceasfire

974
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: in Gaza. Of course, the reality is that everyone in

975
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: the Security Council voted for this resolution save for the

976
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,840
Speaker 1: US and the UK, which abstained. So I don't know

977
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 1: why they described this as quote unquote Erab backed, but anyway.

978
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:49,760
Speaker 3: We'll put that to the side.

979
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,560
Speaker 1: As I mentioned, this was the third time the US

980
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: has blocked a ceasefire resolution. We were the loan vote

981
00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 1: against this resolution that was put forward by Algeria. We

982
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: said that this could get in the way of negotiating

983
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 1: a hostage and ceasefire deal. I don't really understand why

984
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: it would get in the way of that, but that

985
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 1: is what they are claiming they are putting forward. And

986
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 1: Emily we talked about this some yesterday as well. They

987
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: are apparently drafting a separate, weaker resolution that the US

988
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:24,960
Speaker 1: intends to actually vote for and try to push through

989
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: the UN Security Council. Doctor Tree T Parsi looked at

990
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 1: that draft resolution and raised a few red flags about it.

991
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:34,240
Speaker 1: I'll just read from a little bit of a tweet

992
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 1: bread that he put out he said he looked at

993
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,240
Speaker 1: the draft resolution on Gaza.

994
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 3: Few things stand out.

995
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: The language on Rafa is strong for Biden's standards and

996
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 1: should be welcomed. That was saying that they should not

997
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: invade Rafa at this point under current circumstances. But he

998
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: says the language on a ceasefire is borderline insulting.

999
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 3: The US draft does not.

1000
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: Demand a ceasefire, but instead underscores it's support for a

1001
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 1: temporary cease fire. Moreover, it does not require one immediately,

1002
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: but rather quote as soon as practicable. This, he goes

1003
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: on to say, is a comparatively unusual formulation. He says

1004
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 1: he hasn't found that formulation in any other UN Security

1005
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:18,239
Speaker 1: Council resolution on ceasefires. As a result, Biden seems to

1006
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 1: aim to delay a ceasefire while pretending to secure one.

1007
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: That is, he says, beyond shameful despite the relatively strong

1008
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: language on Rafa and Emily, I mean, I'm curious your

1009
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: reaction to this not as surprise that the US is

1010
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 1: once again blocking a ceasefire, even as you know we've

1011
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: heard increasing leaks behind the scenes and expressions of concern

1012
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: about the potential ground invasion of Rafa. You know, in

1013
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: escalating concerns of the direction of the net Yahoo government,

1014
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 1: et cetera. But you know, actions speak louder than words,

1015
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: and here we are once again saying, listen, we are

1016
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 1: going to go against the entire rest of the world

1017
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: and say no, we do not actually want a ceasefire,

1018
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: even as the you know, horrific slaughter and brutal humanitarian

1019
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 1: conditions which are already leading to children literally starving to death,

1020
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: even as all of those things persist and continue.

1021
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 4: It's not a good split screen for the Biden administration,

1022
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 4: that is for sure, and supporters of the Biden Administration's

1023
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 4: policy on this, that's for sure. And I think it

1024
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,880
Speaker 4: just speaks to, as you were saying, the completely muddled

1025
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 4: messaging in an election year from the Biden administration, which

1026
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 4: really wants to have its cake and eat it too,

1027
00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 4: wants to have its cake being you know, voters, certainly

1028
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 4: in college towns in Michigan and Dearborn, think that Joe

1029
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 4: Biden is genuinely trying his best to push beibing at

1030
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 4: Yahoo away from some of his aims and some of

1031
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 4: you know, his allies aims. Obviously, he has a really

1032
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 4: fragile coalition in his own government to deal with, and

1033
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 4: so they want, you know, voters to believe that Joe

1034
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 4: Biden is out there doing his darnedest to push back.

1035
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 4: And that's where all the leagues come from. As you

1036
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 4: guys have covered very well. And I think this is

1037
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 4: just you know, you can take the split screen exactly

1038
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 4: as it is. It's the split screen of the Biden

1039
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 4: administration itself that you know doesn't have the courage to

1040
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 4: I don't even know what it actually believes. I mean,

1041
00:57:12,560 --> 00:57:14,479
Speaker 4: we know Joe Biden is a long term two state

1042
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,120
Speaker 4: solution guy and Netan Yahoo is a long term one

1043
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 4: state solution guy. But what Joe Biden himself actually believes

1044
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,520
Speaker 4: at this point, you know, if if he has the

1045
00:57:23,560 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 4: capacity to believe anything about this current situation, it's just

1046
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 4: it's up in the air, and he seems to in

1047
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 4: the in the interim of anything happened, just by default

1048
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 4: side with and maybe that's a good way to put it.

1049
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 4: It's it's you know, with Israel by default in public

1050
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:45,960
Speaker 4: and then sort of you know, leaking private things. We

1051
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 4: don't actually know what's been said in private. We know

1052
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 4: what's been leaked about what's been sent in private, but

1053
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 4: it's completely muddled.

1054
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's absolute, you know, unconditional, consistent support. Whatever Israel wants,

1055
00:57:57,200 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: Israel ultimately gets, and you know, he's They felt pressured

1056
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: because of the horror that has become completely undeniable and

1057
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: really can't be justified in any circumstance. I mean, every

1058
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: day the State Department grules are asked to justify or

1059
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 1: respond to some new atrocity that the entire world witnessed,

1060
00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 1: and so they found it increasingly untenable to not at

1061
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: least express some sort of squeamishness around what's going on.

1062
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: That's how you end up with the you know, weak

1063
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: sanctions against four violent settlers.

1064
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 3: That's how you end up with this.

1065
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 1: You know, now attempt to weaken the resolution and at

1066
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: least signal like, oh, well there's something we can get behind,

1067
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: and oh, we're really just concerned about this current hostage

1068
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: negotiation that's going on. We don't want to blow that up,

1069
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 1: which again, no one ever explains how actually passing Algeria's

1070
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 1: resolution would undermine those negotiations.

1071
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:57,960
Speaker 3: They're just we're just supposed to take that on face value.

1072
00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: But you know, there was a pretty remarkable exchange at

1073
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: the State Department yesterday that really put into relief the

1074
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: difference in the way that the US respond to atrocities

1075
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:18,120
Speaker 1: committed against Israelis versus atrocities committed against Palestinians, and the

1076
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 1: level of proof that is required to accept the claims

1077
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: of those various atrocities. This has to do with allegations

1078
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:30,200
Speaker 1: of Israeli's committing sexual assault against Palestinians. Let's take a

1079
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 1: listen to this exchange at the State Department where they

1080
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: were pressed on the different ways that they're handling those situations.

1081
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 3: Take a listen.

1082
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 6: The UN experts said that Palestinian women and girls in

1083
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:46,040
Speaker 6: detention have been subjected to multiple forms of sexual assaults

1084
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 6: by male Israeli Army officers. At least two of them

1085
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 6: were reportedly threatened with rape and sexual violence. Have you

1086
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 6: seen those allegations so you have any reaction.

1087
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,880
Speaker 7: I have seen the allegations. I cannot independently confirm the reports.

1088
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 7: I will say that we have been clear that civilians

1089
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 7: and detained individuals must be treated humanly and in accordance

1090
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,640
Speaker 7: with international humanitarian law. We strongly urge Israel to thoroughly

1091
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 7: and transparently investigate credible allegations and sure any accountability for

1092
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 7: abuses and violations.

1093
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 8: When you said you had no independent confirmation of what

1094
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:23,960
Speaker 8: the UN experts found.

1095
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 9: I mean the underlying the idea.

1096
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,400
Speaker 8: But did you ever get did you ever have confirmation

1097
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 8: of what Amas allegedly did to Israelis who were women?

1098
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:35,480
Speaker 8: Girls who were uh?

1099
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 7: There are there are Israeli medical experts who have testified

1100
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 7: to that, and that is something we can we consider credible.

1101
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:50,040
Speaker 8: Yes, so you have you consider those instances to be confirmed,

1102
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 8: but not what.

1103
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 7: We have seen this report, and we have called for

1104
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 7: an investigation to confirm whether the allegations are true or not.

1105
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:57,440
Speaker 8: I get it.

1106
01:00:57,480 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 2: And who?

1107
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,000
Speaker 8: And if you're willing to take a word of Israeli

1108
01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 8: and I'm not saying you shouldn't, but if you're willing

1109
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 8: to take the word of Israeli medical experts on what

1110
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:10,120
Speaker 8: happened to the people who were abducted on October seventh,

1111
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 8: whose word are you willing to take? If not the UN?

1112
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 7: Who A full, independent, credible investigation we are calling for

1113
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:24,080
Speaker 7: that in a no, of course, would not have to

1114
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 7: be in Israelian A credible medical expert, a credible a

1115
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 7: credible I don't want to. I don't want to prescribe

1116
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 7: who it would be a credible metal medical expert that

1117
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 7: can testify to it would be something we would.

1118
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 1: Look at, of course, So they really kind of have

1119
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: him dead to rights their emily because on the one hand,

1120
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:42,360
Speaker 1: you have allegations leveled by the Israelis that you know,

1121
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 1: the Biden administration immediately took at their word, didn't require

1122
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: further independent investigation, have felt very comfortable, you know, condemning that,

1123
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:51,400
Speaker 1: calling that out from the podium, et cetera.

1124
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 3: On the other hand, when you have the UN, which.

1125
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 1: Is I think kind of the definition of an independent body,

1126
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 1: saying putting forth claims of sexual assault against Palestinians, then

1127
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:07,960
Speaker 1: they're calling on the Israelis to do an investigation and

1128
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: they can't say whether this really happen, and they need

1129
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 1: further proof in order to you know, really condemn it

1130
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: or say anything about it. I mean, if you're going

1131
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: to judge between the UN and the Israel, and Israel

1132
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: which is a less directly interested and more independent body,

1133
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 1: there's no doubt you would take the word of the

1134
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: UN and the investigation that you know, they have the

1135
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 1: proof that they have already seen over the word of

1136
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 1: the Israelis in this matter, so he has really no

1137
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 1: way to wig a lown of this. It ends up

1138
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:40,600
Speaker 1: being incredibly awkward and just once again puts their extraordinary

1139
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:44,280
Speaker 1: hypocrisy on display, which is something that's been a consistent

1140
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 1: theme since the beginning of this conflict, you know, even

1141
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: you know previously we've talked a lot about how when

1142
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: it was Russia doing war crimes, everyone knew what the

1143
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: definition of what a war crime was, everyone knew what

1144
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 1: the definition of genocide was. They had no problem saying, hey,

1145
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: this is a war crime, this is an atrocity, this

1146
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:03,520
Speaker 1: is outrageous. Suddenly, when it's Israel it's side and see

1147
01:03:03,520 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 1: those reports, I call for an investigation.

1148
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 3: I don't know, I'll get back to you.

1149
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 1: And the blatant hypocrisy just could not be more clear

1150
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: for our own public or the world to behold.

1151
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 4: So yeah, and that was obviously Matt Lee from the

1152
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 4: Associated Press, who I think myself and many others enjoy

1153
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 4: when he presses people to push their logic to its

1154
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:30,360
Speaker 4: ultimate conclusion. And he absolutely had them. There was no

1155
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:33,280
Speaker 4: wiggle room there, and he didn't give any wiggle room

1156
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:35,800
Speaker 4: whatsoever for the administration to come out of that one.

1157
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 4: And I think it's another sort of thirty thousand foot view.

1158
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 4: And obviously, you know myself and you and Ryan and Sager,

1159
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 4: we all have different perspectives on this particular conflict. But

1160
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 4: it's a reflection on propaganda too. I think Crystal that

1161
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 4: it can sometimes be so powerful, and that long New

1162
01:03:54,920 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 4: York Time story on sexual assault on October seventh, which

1163
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 4: I think has you know, I don't think that disqualifies.

1164
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 4: As Ryan has said, you know that the likelihood that

1165
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 4: there was no sexual assault on October seventh is very minimal.

1166
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 4: I think that's clear. But when you have people from

1167
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 4: the family that were interviewed by New York Times pushing

1168
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,080
Speaker 4: back on what was ultimately reported in the New York Times,

1169
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 4: I think it does speak to how easily we can

1170
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 4: all kind of be whipped into a frenzy by wartime propaganda.

1171
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 4: And great for the Associated Press and other journalists who

1172
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 4: are pushing the administration to transparently walk through what they're

1173
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 4: talking about. When they, you know, push some of these claims,

1174
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 4: and when they don't, when they push back on some others.

1175
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this was a key part of the early

1176
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 1: days post October seventh. You know, the allegation which has

1177
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: not been proven that hamas not only that there was

1178
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 1: you know, some instances of sexual assault, which I agree

1179
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 1: with Ron I think, you know, I would be very

1180
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 1: shocked if there weren't, but that it was actively systematically

1181
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: used as a weapon of war. That was the allegation

1182
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: post October seventh, and the proof has not emerged, has

1183
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 1: not been put before the public to justify that sweeping

1184
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:20,760
Speaker 1: allegation that along with other stories that we know for

1185
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: a fact were false, the beheaded forty beheaded babies and

1186
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 1: you know, other pregnant woman having her feetus cut out

1187
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 1: of her things that the Israeli media was able to

1188
01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:37,880
Speaker 1: fully debunk. These were used to try to justify the

1189
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: ferociousness and the brutality of the Israeli response. So that's

1190
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: why it was important to even though it felt like,

1191
01:05:46,560 --> 01:05:50,480
Speaker 1: you know, obviously October seventh was horrific, there were genuine atrocities.

1192
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:53,800
Speaker 1: You know, those atrocities were enough for people to understand

1193
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,520
Speaker 1: the horror of that day. But there was a reason

1194
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 1: why those particular stories, you know, many of which now

1195
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 1: were proven to be complete fabrications, were pushed to the public,

1196
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: and it was to try to justify what is now

1197
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:10,840
Speaker 1: clearly a response that is wholly unjustified in terms of

1198
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 1: the collective punishment of the civilian population. Speaking of that,

1199
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,200
Speaker 1: you know, CNN's Jeremy diamond I have to say, has

1200
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,040
Speaker 1: done a number of extraordinary reports at this point. We

1201
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,439
Speaker 1: covered and I think you guys did as well, some

1202
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: of his reporting on the cemeteries that were desecrated. You know,

1203
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: I think sixteen different cemeteries in Gaza that were desecrated

1204
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 1: by the IDF. He has another report just to remind

1205
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,560
Speaker 1: you of what we are not only providing diplomatic cover

1206
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 1: for at the UN, what we are enabling and supporting

1207
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 1: with our weapons shipments. There was a strike that had

1208
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 1: recently had a tremendous horrific toll on children, largely. Let's

1209
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 1: take a look at that report from Jeremy Diamonds at CNN.

1210
01:06:55,800 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 10: One after another after another after another. The victims of

1211
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 10: the latest Israeli airstrike flood into this hospital in central Gaza.

1212
01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:12,720
Speaker 10: They're mostly children, some of them still clinging to life,

1213
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 10: others bloodied and limp in the ruins of the Albaraka

1214
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:21,880
Speaker 10: family home, the target of Sunday's airstrike. The desperate search

1215
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,240
Speaker 10: for survivors is underway. As one man dives into the rubble,

1216
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 10: another shouts, get out of there, you'll die down there.

1217
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 11: We could only pull two alive from under the rubble,

1218
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:37,720
Speaker 11: and the wrists are all missing. We don't see safety

1219
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 11: in a mosque, or in an unerous school, or in

1220
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 11: a hospital. The word safety is not something that exists anymore.

1221
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 11: They evacuated us from place to place, claiming it's safe.

1222
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 11: There is nowhere safe.

1223
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 10: Shouts praising God rise as a girl is pulled from

1224
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:58,040
Speaker 10: the rubble, but her body is lifeless, added to the

1225
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 10: list of more than twelve thousand children killed in Gaza

1226
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 10: Bystanders try and cover her body, but the man carrying

1227
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:08,440
Speaker 10: her throws the blanket off.

1228
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 3: And you heard that, one man saying.

1229
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 1: You know, they tell us to move and move, But

1230
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:16,200
Speaker 1: the reality is that there is nowhere safe. That has certainly,

1231
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:19,040
Speaker 1: you know, never been more clear than right now, Emily.

1232
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:22,799
Speaker 1: Is they're threatening this, you know, very rapidly approaching deadline

1233
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 1: for a full invasion of Rafo, where one point three

1234
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:29,400
Speaker 1: million Palestinians are clustered in already imporrent conditions, and where

1235
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 1: many have already lost their lives from, in particular the

1236
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 1: bombing that was used as what they described as a

1237
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 1: distraction in order to be able to secure the release

1238
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:42,839
Speaker 1: of two hostages and some over sixty plus Palestinians killed

1239
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:45,200
Speaker 1: in that quote unquote distraction.

1240
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 3: But you know, this is the reality.

1241
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:50,559
Speaker 1: If you're blocking a ceasefire resolution at the UN, to facto,

1242
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,599
Speaker 1: this is what you are supporting. And of course we're

1243
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:56,280
Speaker 1: going beyond that, not just providing diplomatic cover at the UN,

1244
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 1: but also shipping the weapons that are being used to

1245
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:03,679
Speaker 1: kill the defenseless children. At the same time, in terms

1246
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:08,240
Speaker 1: of Israel accomplishing their so called objectives of eliminating Hamas,

1247
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:12,559
Speaker 1: they have not been successful. There is now a report

1248
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:14,920
Speaker 1: that the Israelis are denying. By the way, but I

1249
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:16,720
Speaker 1: did want to put this up on the screen so

1250
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: you can take it for what it's worth. But there

1251
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 1: was a report that Israel fears that the Hamas chief

1252
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 1: Sinwar had actually escaped to Egypt. There was an Arabic

1253
01:09:27,680 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: media report suggesting Sinwaar took hostages when fleeing the Gossas

1254
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:34,920
Speaker 1: trip for Egypt via a tunnel. No idea whether this

1255
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:37,719
Speaker 1: is accurate or not, but whether or not it is Emily,

1256
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 1: the reality is they've been wildly unsuccessful at securing the

1257
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 1: safe release of their hostages. In fact, there's just a

1258
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:46,320
Speaker 1: new report that it's been confirmed that at least ten

1259
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 1: of the hostages were killed by Israelis directly, and the

1260
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:54,000
Speaker 1: suspicion is that there were actually many wars. The Israelis

1261
01:09:54,040 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: believe somewhere between thirty and fifty of the hostages have

1262
01:09:57,439 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: died during this time period, and it not be surprising

1263
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:03,360
Speaker 1: if some, if not all of them were killed in

1264
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:07,640
Speaker 1: the you know, in the aggressive Israeli response here. So

1265
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:10,480
Speaker 1: they haven't been successful at securing release of the hostages

1266
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:15,040
Speaker 1: outside of a negotiated seaspyer context. They've not been successful

1267
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,680
Speaker 1: at destroying the tunnel network, they have not been successful

1268
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 1: at destroying hamas or capturing their primary leaders. And so,

1269
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:25,719
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of what are the alleged goals

1270
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 1: of the operation, they have failed. Their economy is in shambles,

1271
01:10:30,120 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: they're increasingly heading towards absolute pariah status, and you know,

1272
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:37,479
Speaker 1: it's become quite clear to the world that the real

1273
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:41,280
Speaker 1: goal here is ethnic cleansing and complete annihilation of the

1274
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: Palestinian civilian infrastructure of the Gaza.

1275
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 4: Strup Well, and I think there's a real possibility this

1276
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 4: also leaves the people of Israel in more danger in

1277
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 4: the long run. And I think it's it's very unclear,

1278
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,840
Speaker 4: it has been. You know, we have Joe Biden again,

1279
01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:02,400
Speaker 4: we just mentioned this, Joe Biden and dedicated two state solution.

1280
01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:06,120
Speaker 4: Man has been committed to that position for decades and

1281
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:10,720
Speaker 4: is very proud of it, funding a war and providing

1282
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 4: equipment for a war that it's chief prosecutor Bbing at

1283
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,960
Speaker 4: Yahoo is committed to his end being a one state solution.

1284
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 4: And when you have a situation like that, I mean

1285
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 4: it's just of course the outcomes are going to be

1286
01:11:22,720 --> 01:11:24,960
Speaker 4: as muddled as they are with Hamas moving into northern

1287
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 4: Gaza because Israel is not providing civilian infrastructure and the

1288
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:34,719
Speaker 4: legitimate challenges of what to do with unra an AID

1289
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 4: when you're in a situation like this because of a

1290
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 4: ground invasion and before that large aerial bombings and you

1291
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:46,640
Speaker 4: have to there is no civilian infrastructure left over, and

1292
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 4: the only place that a civilian infrastructure could possibly come

1293
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 4: from is the terrorist group that attacked you, and there's

1294
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 4: no sort of will to provide it, there's no ability

1295
01:11:56,120 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 4: to provide it. It's entirely possible. Again Hamas moving back

1296
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:05,240
Speaker 4: into northern Gaza already, it's entirely possible that this outcome

1297
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 4: ends up not being in literally anyone's interest, let alone.

1298
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 4: And I said this a couple of weeks ago, and

1299
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 4: I think people misinterpreted what I meant by this. I

1300
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:19,640
Speaker 4: mean the the tragedy of Israel even claiming that they

1301
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:23,720
Speaker 4: were going to prosecute a war that involved massivilian casualties

1302
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 4: and mass destruction that solved the problem, and then clearly

1303
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 4: that not even solving the problem. That is just incredibly

1304
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:38,280
Speaker 4: incredibly sad in and of itself, because even you know,

1305
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:41,400
Speaker 4: by the sort of if you put stock in the

1306
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 4: kind of good faith position, if you take that position

1307
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 4: as a good faith one and you take it seriously,

1308
01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 4: not even that having the outcome that allegedly it was

1309
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 4: supposed to have, that's incredibly tragic because it means that

1310
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:58,679
Speaker 4: all of it was I mean in vain. In vain,

1311
01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 4: there's no there's no increased enhanced safety, there's nothing. And

1312
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 4: that's just if you take that position in good faith,

1313
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 4: which I'm not saying that I do, because obviously that's

1314
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:12,280
Speaker 4: not true. Obviously there were aims that were broader than

1315
01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 4: just solving this individual conflict or responding proportionately to what

1316
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 4: happened on October seventh. Obviously there are broader aims to that.

1317
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,640
Speaker 4: And if it turns out that it's killed tens of

1318
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:29,160
Speaker 4: thousands of people and left everybody less safe in the end,

1319
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:32,160
Speaker 4: and that looks like exactly where it's heading, that's an

1320
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 4: incredible tragedy. And it's happening not in slow motion and

1321
01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:36,679
Speaker 4: fast motion every single day.

1322
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:39,760
Speaker 1: I just saw a pull this morning and believe the

1323
01:13:39,800 --> 01:13:43,400
Speaker 1: number was two thirds of Israelis don't believe that the

1324
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:48,479
Speaker 1: goal of eradicating Hamas is possible, that they're not likely

1325
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 1: to see that. I mean, the US administration acknowledged there

1326
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:56,719
Speaker 1: is no military solution to Hamas, which of course raises

1327
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 1: the question which I think anyone with eyes and years

1328
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 1: at this point can easily answer, what are we actually

1329
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:02,719
Speaker 1: doing here?

1330
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 3: What are we doing here? What are the Israelis doing here?

1331
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 1: If it's not quote unquote hunting for Hamas and eradicating Hamas.

1332
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:14,759
Speaker 4: And hostages right right? The precision of rescuing hostages.

1333
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:16,000
Speaker 1: Well, because we know at this point, I mean, that

1334
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:17,960
Speaker 1: has been a real refrain of oh, well, if you

1335
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:20,040
Speaker 1: want a ceasefire, then you just you know, you don't

1336
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:22,600
Speaker 1: want the hostages to return. Well, it's quite the contrary.

1337
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:26,080
Speaker 1: The only time when hostages have been you know, exchange

1338
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:30,000
Speaker 1: in significant numbers, when hostages have been returned, is through

1339
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:33,840
Speaker 1: a negotiated ceasefire process, when we had that brief ceasefire

1340
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 1: early on. So if your concern is for the hostages

1341
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:40,519
Speaker 1: and your concern is for you know, civilian populations on

1342
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:44,040
Speaker 1: both sides, that only leads to one place, which is

1343
01:14:44,080 --> 01:14:47,559
Speaker 1: a ceasefire. Not to mention, you know, the way that

1344
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: this war has spread far beyond the borders of the

1345
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:53,680
Speaker 1: Gaza Strip, as far afield as places like Pakistan, but

1346
01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:58,200
Speaker 1: certainly Yemen, the Red Sea, Lebanon, etc. A rack Syria

1347
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:03,000
Speaker 1: with grave consequences for our own service members. So one

1348
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 1: other thing, Emily that I wanted to pick up on

1349
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 1: that you mentioned was Netnahu's desire for quote unquote one

1350
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:10,160
Speaker 1: state solution. And this is not, of course, the one

1351
01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:13,760
Speaker 1: state solution that some lefties and Palestinians would like to

1352
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 1: say see of one democrat actually democratic country with everyone

1353
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:24,839
Speaker 1: having equal rights. No, his is either Palestinians gone pushed

1354
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 1: out entirely or continued apartheid conditions and strengthened apartheid conditions,

1355
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,680
Speaker 1: because you know, apartheid only goes in one direction. You

1356
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 1: have to further militarize, you have to further crack down,

1357
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 1: you have to further repress the rights of the population

1358
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:46,400
Speaker 1: that you view as a demographic threat to your society.

1359
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 1: He came out once again, not that this should be

1360
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:51,280
Speaker 1: any mystery to anyone, because he's been saying it for

1361
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 1: decades now at this point, bragging about how he is

1362
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:58,760
Speaker 1: the one who can block a Palestinian state, leaning very

1363
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 1: heavily into that mess and claiming credit for blocking Palestinian

1364
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 1: state over all of these years. So you know, the

1365
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:10,719
Speaker 1: Biden administration likes to live in this alternate fantasy world

1366
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:13,680
Speaker 1: where there is some partner in the Israeli government that

1367
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,760
Speaker 1: is interested in a negotiated settlement, that is interested to

1368
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,280
Speaker 1: state's illusion or some sort of you know, just lasting

1369
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 1: peace to the benefit of not just the Palestinians, but

1370
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:26,120
Speaker 1: to your point, to the safety and securities of Israelis

1371
01:16:26,160 --> 01:16:29,719
Speaker 1: as well. And Netnahu is bound and determined to burst

1372
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:33,800
Speaker 1: that bubble and make it incredibly plain to absolutely everyone

1373
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:37,600
Speaker 1: that he will fort a Palestinian state if it's the

1374
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:40,800
Speaker 1: last thing that he does and he has absolutely no

1375
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:46,200
Speaker 1: interest in going in that direction. At the same time,

1376
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:51,679
Speaker 1: there was an extraordinary communicate released by the Chief of Staff,

1377
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 1: Major General Hertzi Halevi sent this out to a communicate

1378
01:16:56,439 --> 01:16:58,920
Speaker 1: to IDF commanders yesterday, put this up on the screen,

1379
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:03,599
Speaker 1: emphasizing to them that they should not be doing war

1380
01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:06,800
Speaker 1: crimes and they should definitely not be publishing to the

1381
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:09,800
Speaker 1: world those war crimes as they have been. I mean,

1382
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:11,719
Speaker 1: we've all seen the tiktoks of these ideas.

1383
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:12,040
Speaker 9: Soldiers.

1384
01:17:12,040 --> 01:17:13,519
Speaker 3: I'll show you a little bit of that in a moment.

1385
01:17:14,280 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 1: Who are bragging about stealing from Palestinians and who are

1386
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:23,479
Speaker 1: you know, blow but doing exposees on how to blow

1387
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 1: up a musk and destroying civilian infrastructure and incredibly proud

1388
01:17:27,320 --> 01:17:29,600
Speaker 1: of it and just like literally doing war crimes on

1389
01:17:29,680 --> 01:17:33,040
Speaker 1: camera to the celebration of some in the Israeli domestic audience.

1390
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:36,640
Speaker 1: So part of what they said here in this communicate

1391
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:39,200
Speaker 1: that when out the idea of commanders is quote, we

1392
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 1: are not on a campaign of killing, revenge or genocide.

1393
01:17:43,479 --> 01:17:46,400
Speaker 1: He also urges soldiers not to take anything that isn't

1394
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 1: ours or film revenge videos. Pretty extraordinary when you have

1395
01:17:53,560 --> 01:17:58,120
Speaker 1: to tell your soldiers, by the way, guys, we're not

1396
01:17:58,240 --> 01:18:02,439
Speaker 1: doing a genocide here. Only shows you the commitment to

1397
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: the rules of war when you have to at least

1398
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:08,040
Speaker 1: publicly tell people stop doing war crimes and we're not

1399
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:11,080
Speaker 1: doing revenge and we're not doing genocide. Just as a

1400
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 1: reminder of a little bit of what has come out,

1401
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:16,600
Speaker 1: just you know, this has been this has been a

1402
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 1: part of this war from the beginning. These IDF soldiers

1403
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,040
Speaker 1: just very proud of some of the horrors that they

1404
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 1: are committing. This is another report actually from Jeremy Diamond

1405
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:27,799
Speaker 1: that we have a piece of over at CNN.

1406
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:29,040
Speaker 3: Let's take a look at that.

1407
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 10: This is a how to video on how to blow

1408
01:18:33,439 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 10: up a mosque in Gaza. Format is Internet fluent. The

1409
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:45,160
Speaker 10: content is very real, filmed, edited and posted on Instagram

1410
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:49,240
Speaker 10: by an Israeli soldier. It's one of dozens reviewed by

1411
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 10: CNN for many in twenty twenty four. Social media is

1412
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:58,200
Speaker 10: everyday life. Israeli soldiers are no different, except they're fighting

1413
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 10: Israel's largest and most brutal war in decades. In video

1414
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:12,639
Speaker 10: after video after video, soldiers document the destruction of Gaza

1415
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 10: and rejoice. They filmed detonations to use as wedding invitations.

1416
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:26,479
Speaker 10: I hope among them are would be comedians whose videos

1417
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:30,440
Speaker 10: satirizing the war showed the devastation in Gaza.

1418
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:32,400
Speaker 3: So you get a little bit of a sense there.

1419
01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 1: And if we could go to the next piece from

1420
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,520
Speaker 1: nine to seven to two magazine, there's an increasing focus

1421
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 1: on the endemic of theft of IDF soldiers just stealing

1422
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 1: whatever they want from bombed down Palestinian homes.

1423
01:19:45,479 --> 01:19:47,920
Speaker 3: Actually Haretz basically celebrated this.

1424
01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:50,959
Speaker 1: I did a monologue on this last week about soldiers

1425
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:54,360
Speaker 1: going into Palestinian kitchens and stealing food. And you know,

1426
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:57,280
Speaker 1: they were doing this glossy lifestyle magazine piece about all

1427
01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:02,160
Speaker 1: these incredible culinary creations the IDF soldiers from the theft

1428
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:06,240
Speaker 1: of you know, cooking supplies and food from a Palestinine

1429
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:09,320
Speaker 1: population that's literally starving to death. But this expos from

1430
01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:12,200
Speaker 1: nine to seven to two talks about not just you know,

1431
01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 1: these aren't just isolated incidents, but this is just basically accepted,

1432
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 1: they say. Israeli soldiers fighting in Gaza have not been

1433
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:22,599
Speaker 1: shy about posting videos on social media, gleefully documenting their

1434
01:20:22,600 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 1: wanton destruction of buildings, humiliation of Palaestinine detainees. Some of

1435
01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:29,280
Speaker 1: these clips were even exhibited at the ICJA as part

1436
01:20:29,280 --> 01:20:32,479
Speaker 1: of South Africa's presentation. But there's another war crime being

1437
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:35,639
Speaker 1: readily documented by Israeli soldiers that has garnered less attention

1438
01:20:35,720 --> 01:20:39,240
Speaker 1: and condemnation despite its prevalence, and that is looting.

1439
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 3: They go on later on, they.

1440
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:43,920
Speaker 1: Say soldiers who return from fighting in Gaza confirmed to

1441
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 1: Plus nine seven and two magazine and local call that

1442
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 1: the phenomenon is ubiquitous and that for the most part,

1443
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:53,360
Speaker 1: their commanders are allowing it to happen. Quote people took things, mugs, books,

1444
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:55,679
Speaker 1: each one the souvenir that does it for him, said

1445
01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:58,240
Speaker 1: one soldier, who admitted that he himself took a quote

1446
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 1: souvenir from one of the medical centers that the army occupied.

1447
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:07,680
Speaker 1: So that is part of the context in which this

1448
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:12,120
Speaker 1: IDF communicate went out reminding soldiers that they are not

1449
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 1: doing a genocide and to please not commit war crimes.

1450
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 4: These these types of videos, these optects will continue as

1451
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 4: long as the war goes on, obviously, because there's no

1452
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:30,200
Speaker 4: obviously no appetite to crack down on this type of conduct,

1453
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:33,040
Speaker 4: and so as long as this war is happening, this

1454
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 4: is going to continue happening as well, and then you

1455
01:21:36,120 --> 01:21:38,559
Speaker 4: will continue to have the split screens of what's happening

1456
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:41,320
Speaker 4: at the UN what's happening from what's happening at the

1457
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 4: Hague juxtaposed with this, So no end incite sadly to

1458
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:48,960
Speaker 4: this crystal.

1459
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:50,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm going to go one step for because

1460
01:21:51,040 --> 01:21:53,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people have said, like why do they

1461
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 1: let them film these things? You know, why are they

1462
01:21:56,479 --> 01:21:59,559
Speaker 1: willing to put this image out to the world. I mean,

1463
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:02,480
Speaker 1: of course, the first question is why are these wargarmes

1464
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:05,080
Speaker 1: being committed in the first place, But then there is

1465
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:07,960
Speaker 1: another level of astonishment of like, why don't they crack

1466
01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: down on whatever the hell is going on here? And

1467
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:13,519
Speaker 1: it finally clicked for me in a report about that

1468
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 1: quote unquote resettlement or ethnic cleansing conference that a bunch

1469
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:20,719
Speaker 1: of Lakud members of the Kanesset and I think eleven

1470
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:25,880
Speaker 1: Security Cabinet members attended, where the biggest applause, they said,

1471
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:29,880
Speaker 1: came from exactly these types of tiktoks they would show

1472
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:33,080
Speaker 1: these soldiers, especially ones that had to do with we're

1473
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:36,280
Speaker 1: going to reoccupy and talking about the previous settlements and

1474
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 1: this is all ours and there are no uninvolved civilians.

1475
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:43,439
Speaker 1: That was the content that got the biggest cheers at

1476
01:22:43,439 --> 01:22:46,840
Speaker 1: this conference of everything that was going on. And the

1477
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 1: reason that was an AHA moment for me was because,

1478
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:53,320
Speaker 1: as we were just discussing, Israel is not going to

1479
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:57,360
Speaker 1: eradicate Hamas. They have already failed and you know, been

1480
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:03,160
Speaker 1: dramatically inept in their key actual stated objectives of you know,

1481
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:07,360
Speaker 1: eradicating Hamas, killing their fighters, getting rid of the tunnel system,

1482
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:08,559
Speaker 1: capturing their leaders.

1483
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:11,519
Speaker 3: They haven't done any of that, and so in.

1484
01:23:11,439 --> 01:23:14,680
Speaker 1: Liu of that, what they can bring to their population

1485
01:23:15,240 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: is devastation, destruction, and revenge. That's what they're trying to

1486
01:23:20,479 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 1: substitute in for victory since they're failing on all these

1487
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:28,280
Speaker 1: other fronts. So when you see these things not only

1488
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:33,680
Speaker 1: being committed, but being publicized and celebrated, you know, at

1489
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 1: a certain point you go, this is not just like

1490
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:38,040
Speaker 1: a one off accident. This is something that someone in

1491
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 1: leadership is actually fine with, happy about, and you know,

1492
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:46,160
Speaker 1: permitting to occur, if not actually encouraging, because that is

1493
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 1: the only thing that they have that they can bring

1494
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:52,200
Speaker 1: to their population now in lieu of actually you know,

1495
01:23:52,240 --> 01:23:57,400
Speaker 1: accomplishing their objective, let alone making the Israeli population more

1496
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:00,799
Speaker 1: safe and more secure, which, as you, I think accurately

1497
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:04,200
Speaker 1: pointed out earlier, Emily, I mean, this has done nothing

1498
01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 1: but to further imperil the security, long term security of Israelis,

1499
01:24:08,960 --> 01:24:13,400
Speaker 1: because how many Palestinians are going to be incredibly radicalized

1500
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 1: by what you have done to them, to their family,

1501
01:24:16,600 --> 01:24:20,400
Speaker 1: to their children, to their homes, stealing their belongings, blowing

1502
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 1: up their cultural institutions, et cetera.

1503
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:28,320
Speaker 4: And you know, you have Israelis fighting and dying in Gaza,

1504
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:31,679
Speaker 4: and so it embitters everyone. So like that's that's where

1505
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 4: you know, Israeli is cheering at some of the videos,

1506
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:37,679
Speaker 4: some of them have recently lost young family members, and

1507
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:41,840
Speaker 4: it just it embitters everyone going forward and with no

1508
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:45,680
Speaker 4: end in sight. I mean, it's just endlessly depressing to

1509
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:49,840
Speaker 4: watch these news cycles. It just again feels like no

1510
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:52,360
Speaker 4: light at the end of this tunnel whatsoever. Yeah.

1511
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:57,640
Speaker 1: Indeed, all right, let's move on to some extraordinary proceedings

1512
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 1: in London right now with regard Toane. So this week,

1513
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:06,320
Speaker 1: Julian Assange is in court fighting extradition to the US

1514
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:11,160
Speaker 1: on espionage charges, which as you know, we have covered extensively,

1515
01:25:11,320 --> 01:25:14,160
Speaker 1: and which we're not the only ones. Press Freedom Foundation,

1516
01:25:14,200 --> 01:25:17,280
Speaker 1: you know, foundations around the world talking about how this

1517
01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:21,040
Speaker 1: is a dramatic threat to freedom of the press.

1518
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 3: He is there in court this week.

1519
01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:25,920
Speaker 1: Actually he's not able to attend because his health is

1520
01:25:25,960 --> 01:25:30,040
Speaker 1: so ill that he wasn't even able to attend remotely. However,

1521
01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:33,360
Speaker 1: there have been huge protests in London. We want to

1522
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:35,040
Speaker 1: show you a little bit of that. What I'm going

1523
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 1: to show you for those who are listening is you'll

1524
01:25:37,000 --> 01:25:38,840
Speaker 1: get a little bit of a taste of the sounds

1525
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:42,639
Speaker 1: from the protests. Then you'll hear Assange's wife Stella speak,

1526
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:45,759
Speaker 1: and then a little bit also from journalist Chris Hedges.

1527
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:47,320
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to all of that.

1528
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:52,600
Speaker 10: Your where Hardy kayos Harty.

1529
01:25:55,680 --> 01:25:59,600
Speaker 12: In the United States is abusing its legal system in

1530
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:02,880
Speaker 12: order to hound and prosecute and intimidate all of you.

1531
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 12: What's at stake is the ability to publish the truth

1532
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:15,120
Speaker 12: and expose crimes when they're committed by states.

1533
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 9: The only fair.

1534
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:22,000
Speaker 12: I shouldn't even talk about fairness at this stage, because

1535
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:22,880
Speaker 12: the country.

1536
01:26:22,560 --> 01:26:25,320
Speaker 4: That's trying to extradite him thought it to murder him.

1537
01:26:26,680 --> 01:26:33,080
Speaker 13: Justice will come for Julian Assange, but it will not

1538
01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:36,280
Speaker 13: come from within those carts. It will come with you,

1539
01:26:37,080 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 13: It will come with us in these streets. They know

1540
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:46,040
Speaker 13: how corrupt this process is. They understand fully the judicial

1541
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 13: pantomime that they have engaged in from the inception to

1542
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 13: crucify the most courageous, most important journalists of our generation,

1543
01:26:56,880 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 13: and they are hoping they will.

1544
01:26:58,160 --> 01:26:59,200
Speaker 4: Not be called out.

1545
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 1: This, of course, just as a reminder, emily dates back

1546
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:07,880
Speaker 1: to some of the Bush era revelations of Assange and

1547
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:12,600
Speaker 1: wiki leaks exposing war crimes. It also, you know the

1548
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 1: logic that is being used here, which was initially initially

1549
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:20,960
Speaker 1: the Obama administration said we can't prosecute him because of

1550
01:27:21,040 --> 01:27:23,320
Speaker 1: the threat to freedom of the press. The Trump administration

1551
01:27:23,439 --> 01:27:25,120
Speaker 1: came in with a different theory and said, yes, we

1552
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:28,520
Speaker 1: are going to prosecute him, and the Biden administration has continued.

1553
01:27:29,080 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 1: US representatives are in court arguing for his extradition. So

1554
01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:38,599
Speaker 1: you now have a bipartisan commitment to imprisoning this man,

1555
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:41,400
Speaker 1: whose life is also literally on the line here by

1556
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:43,840
Speaker 1: the way, guys, I mean he has his health is

1557
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:48,560
Speaker 1: failing in prison to the extent that one of his

1558
01:27:48,720 --> 01:27:52,599
Speaker 1: appeals working its way through the British legal system actually

1559
01:27:52,640 --> 01:27:56,040
Speaker 1: went his way just out of concern for his health. However,

1560
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 1: right now this is likely his last chance to block

1561
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:02,519
Speaker 1: the extradition process. Let's go ahead and put the New

1562
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:04,840
Speaker 1: York Times report up on the screen that breaks down

1563
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:06,960
Speaker 1: how this is all going to unfold, because it is

1564
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:09,280
Speaker 1: a little bit complicated. Their headline is beginning of the

1565
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:13,479
Speaker 1: end as Assange case returns to court. Julian Assange, the

1566
01:28:13,520 --> 01:28:15,280
Speaker 1: Way he Leaks founder has been in prison for nearly

1567
01:28:15,360 --> 01:28:18,360
Speaker 1: five years by a US extradition order. A hearing is

1568
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 1: his last chance to be granted an appeal in Britain.

1569
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:22,800
Speaker 3: They go on to stay.

1570
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:24,960
Speaker 1: On Tuesday, mister Sossane at this case returned to a

1571
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:27,439
Speaker 1: British court for a two day hearing that will determine

1572
01:28:27,479 --> 01:28:30,120
Speaker 1: whether he has exhausted his right to appeal within the

1573
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:33,040
Speaker 1: UK whether he could be one step closer being sent

1574
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 1: to the US. There are a few potential outcomes. The

1575
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:39,840
Speaker 1: judges could allow mister Assange to appeal as the extradition order,

1576
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:42,519
Speaker 1: in which case a full appeal hearing would be scheduled,

1577
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:45,240
Speaker 1: opening the door to a new decision about his extradition

1578
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:48,840
Speaker 1: or if mister Soane's requested your appeal is denied, he

1579
01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:51,160
Speaker 1: could be sent swiftly to a plane bound for the US,

1580
01:28:51,280 --> 01:28:54,080
Speaker 1: his legal team has said. But his lawyers have vowed

1581
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:56,719
Speaker 1: to challenge his extradition in the European Court of Human

1582
01:28:56,840 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 1: Rights in France. Theoretically that could block his extra day

1583
01:29:00,280 --> 01:29:03,280
Speaker 1: from Britain until the case has heard in Strasburg, France,

1584
01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:06,520
Speaker 1: because Britain is obliged to follow that court's judgment.

1585
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 3: As a signatory.

1586
01:29:07,520 --> 01:29:10,559
Speaker 1: Alice Jill Edwards, the UN Special Rappertoire on Torture, has

1587
01:29:10,720 --> 01:29:14,760
Speaker 1: urged Britain to halt mister Assange's extradition, citing fears that

1588
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:18,040
Speaker 1: if extradited, he would be at risk of treatment amounting

1589
01:29:18,080 --> 01:29:21,240
Speaker 1: to torture or other forms of punishment by the way

1590
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:26,080
Speaker 1: Julian Assange, an Australian citizen. The Australian government has also

1591
01:29:26,439 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 1: weighed in here expressing their concern. They've called for Assange

1592
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:32,400
Speaker 1: to be sent to his home country, where it's parliament

1593
01:29:32,439 --> 01:29:35,800
Speaker 1: passed emotion last week calling for his release. Prime Minister

1594
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:37,760
Speaker 1: Anthony Albani said he had discussed the matter at a

1595
01:29:37,840 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 1: meeting last fall with Biden and on Thursday, Albany's told

1596
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:43,320
Speaker 1: the Australian Parliament it is appropriate for us to put

1597
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:45,639
Speaker 1: our very strong view that those countries need to take

1598
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:48,519
Speaker 1: into account the need for this to be concluded. And

1599
01:29:48,640 --> 01:29:51,719
Speaker 1: as I reference before, rights groups like Amnesty or National

1600
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:55,040
Speaker 1: Advocates for Press freedom, including Reporters Without Borders, have long

1601
01:29:55,280 --> 01:29:58,200
Speaker 1: called for the US charges against mister Assange to be

1602
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:01,320
Speaker 1: dropped in the extradition order canceled. I want to give

1603
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:04,720
Speaker 1: a shout out to independent journalists like Richard Medhurst who

1604
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:07,280
Speaker 1: has been on the ground doing extraordinary coverage here. If

1605
01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:09,840
Speaker 1: you guys are interested in more details, definitely give him

1606
01:30:09,880 --> 01:30:15,400
Speaker 1: a follow on Twitter. He reported yesterday that Julian's lawyers

1607
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:19,479
Speaker 1: and tend to argue two key things over the next

1608
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:22,200
Speaker 1: two days. They want permission from the High Court to

1609
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:25,639
Speaker 1: appeal the decision of the former Home Secretary to sign

1610
01:30:25,720 --> 01:30:28,439
Speaker 1: the extradition order. And they also want to appeal the

1611
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 1: decision of the Lower Court to block the extradition. Why

1612
01:30:32,360 --> 01:30:35,240
Speaker 1: would they contest this even if it blocked Julian's extradition, Well,

1613
01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:37,840
Speaker 1: basically that judge blocked it just as I referenced before,

1614
01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:41,560
Speaker 1: on health grounds, only agreeing with all the political and

1615
01:30:41,640 --> 01:30:44,320
Speaker 1: bogus charges against Julian to set up an easy appeal

1616
01:30:44,360 --> 01:30:46,839
Speaker 1: when for the US, allowing them to overturn the decision

1617
01:30:46,840 --> 01:30:50,240
Speaker 1: and proceed with extraditing Julian. The judge also equated national

1618
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:54,200
Speaker 1: security journalism with espionage under the Official Secrets Act in Britain,

1619
01:30:54,439 --> 01:30:58,640
Speaker 1: setting an extraordinarily dangerous precedent for journalism. So that is

1620
01:30:58,720 --> 01:31:01,679
Speaker 1: basically where we are and what we know at this point,

1621
01:31:02,240 --> 01:31:06,080
Speaker 1: is this appeal from Julian likely to succeed. I have

1622
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:08,360
Speaker 1: to say, you know, my hopes are not high, just

1623
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:11,559
Speaker 1: because I think Britain probably very likely to do whatever

1624
01:31:11,560 --> 01:31:13,800
Speaker 1: the US wants it to do here. But it is

1625
01:31:14,520 --> 01:31:18,439
Speaker 1: an incredible crime against press freedom and it is an

1626
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:23,759
Speaker 1: incredible act of hypocrisy for the US to prosecute Julian Assange.

1627
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:26,000
Speaker 1: And by the way, just to underscore that, you know,

1628
01:31:26,280 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 1: we all watch that Tucker Carlson interview with Putin. The

1629
01:31:30,400 --> 01:31:34,959
Speaker 1: very logic, outrageous logic that Putin has used to imprison

1630
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:39,240
Speaker 1: a Wall Street Journal reporter is very similar logic to

1631
01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:43,280
Speaker 1: what is being used here to prosecute and attempt to imprison,

1632
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 1: and of course he has been in prison for years now.

1633
01:31:45,640 --> 01:31:48,680
Speaker 1: Julian Assange for the crime of journalism. There is a

1634
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:52,519
Speaker 1: reason why the Obama administration said we cannot charge him

1635
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:55,880
Speaker 1: without also implicating publishers like the New York Times.

1636
01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:57,599
Speaker 3: So that's where things stand.

1637
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,320
Speaker 4: Emily, Yeah, I'm so glad you said. That's an exactly

1638
01:32:00,400 --> 01:32:02,240
Speaker 4: what I was going to point out. The logic is

1639
01:32:02,400 --> 01:32:05,080
Speaker 4: basically what Vladimir Putin said when he was defending the

1640
01:32:05,120 --> 01:32:09,080
Speaker 4: imprisonment of a Wall Street Journal reporter amid arguments from

1641
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:12,599
Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson that he should let him go. Putin basically said, listen,

1642
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:19,520
Speaker 4: he was trafficking in confidential, national security classified information without authorization,

1643
01:32:19,640 --> 01:32:23,240
Speaker 4: and Tucker said, well, that's journalism. Yes, that is journalism.

1644
01:32:23,479 --> 01:32:27,120
Speaker 4: And just one quick point on that, Crystal. The Obama

1645
01:32:27,200 --> 01:32:30,200
Speaker 4: Biden administration had what they called the quote unquote New

1646
01:32:30,280 --> 01:32:33,200
Speaker 4: York Times problem, and then Donald Trump came in and

1647
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:35,479
Speaker 4: obviously Mike Pompeo. There was I think it was a

1648
01:32:35,560 --> 01:32:38,439
Speaker 4: Michae liskof story in Yahoo that Stella Osonge was referencing

1649
01:32:38,479 --> 01:32:42,120
Speaker 4: there about plots to kill Julian Assange, CIA plots to

1650
01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:46,120
Speaker 4: kill Julian Assange under the Trump administration. This is interesting.

1651
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:48,719
Speaker 4: I remember I asked Keith Kellogg who was Trump's NSA

1652
01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:52,120
Speaker 4: about this some years ago about how Trump viewed Julian Assange,

1653
01:32:52,160 --> 01:32:58,120
Speaker 4: and Kellogg said Trump would use language he said, I

1654
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:00,439
Speaker 4: thought President Don Jay Trump was treated on fairly by

1655
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:01,760
Speaker 4: the press. I think there were people out there in

1656
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:04,080
Speaker 4: every for the most part, most mainstream media who it

1657
01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:06,240
Speaker 4: became a personal attack. It was an ad homin attack.

1658
01:33:06,320 --> 01:33:08,040
Speaker 4: It was not just an attack on Trump's policies. And

1659
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:09,600
Speaker 4: he wouldn't back down, I mean not at all. And

1660
01:33:09,640 --> 01:33:12,120
Speaker 4: I think he kind of saw that with Julian the

1661
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 4: same way, like, Okay, this guy's not backing down. But

1662
01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:17,680
Speaker 4: of course it was the Trump administration which had my

1663
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:21,680
Speaker 4: Pompeu allegedly plotting to kill Julian Nossange and where this

1664
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:26,280
Speaker 4: eventual prosecution and the Espionage Act charges stem from. And

1665
01:33:26,439 --> 01:33:28,559
Speaker 4: just as you were kind of breaking all of this down, Crystal,

1666
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:31,679
Speaker 4: it just what jumps out to you is how simple

1667
01:33:31,880 --> 01:33:34,360
Speaker 4: all of this is. The New York Times problem, as

1668
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:38,120
Speaker 4: Obama and Biden saw it at the time, is absolutely real.

1669
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,840
Speaker 4: There is no way to do this without attacking press freedom,

1670
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:45,160
Speaker 4: which is why you've eventually seen even some of the

1671
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:50,120
Speaker 4: corporate media outlets that initially opposed Julian Massange appined against

1672
01:33:50,200 --> 01:33:53,680
Speaker 4: Julian Nossange. Come around and start giving this case due

1673
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:57,680
Speaker 4: coverage and start actually backing Julian Assange with letters and

1674
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:01,479
Speaker 4: those sorts of things, because it is obviously obviously a

1675
01:34:01,560 --> 01:34:04,680
Speaker 4: threat to press freedom. There's no question about it. It

1676
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:07,599
Speaker 4: is simple, This is an easy question. We have laws

1677
01:34:07,640 --> 01:34:12,280
Speaker 4: against hacking. The Espiana Jackson is terrible, but we have

1678
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:16,800
Speaker 4: actual laws that could be used precisely and appropriately to

1679
01:34:17,040 --> 01:34:21,080
Speaker 4: disincentivize leaking that actually threatens national security, and that is

1680
01:34:21,240 --> 01:34:24,200
Speaker 4: not what is happening in this case whatsoever. It's that simple.

1681
01:34:24,400 --> 01:34:24,559
Speaker 14: Yeah.

1682
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:27,400
Speaker 1: I mean, the politics around Julian Assange got very confused

1683
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:31,439
Speaker 1: because you know, originally he's exposing Bush era war crimes,

1684
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:34,040
Speaker 1: and you know, lots on the left or celebrating him.

1685
01:34:34,080 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 1: Then during the Clinton Trump run he's exposing things that

1686
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:39,600
Speaker 1: Democrats didn't like, and he's being accused of being a

1687
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:40,759
Speaker 1: Russian plant, et cetera.

1688
01:34:40,880 --> 01:34:42,959
Speaker 3: But put all of that crop aside.

1689
01:34:43,439 --> 01:34:45,960
Speaker 1: Whether you liked the things he revealed, or you didn't

1690
01:34:46,120 --> 01:34:48,360
Speaker 1: like the things you revealed, or you feel some kind

1691
01:34:48,400 --> 01:34:52,439
Speaker 1: of way about him personally, this boils down to he

1692
01:34:52,680 --> 01:34:56,040
Speaker 1: embarrassed powerful people and they want to turn him into

1693
01:34:56,200 --> 01:35:01,160
Speaker 1: a scapegoat, to demonstrate to other potential journalists who would

1694
01:35:01,160 --> 01:35:04,479
Speaker 1: expose these secrets that we will make you pay, potentially

1695
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:07,800
Speaker 1: with your life. I mean again, Julian's life is truly

1696
01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:10,479
Speaker 1: on the line here, you know, according to his family,

1697
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:16,000
Speaker 1: his brother, his wife, his father, et cetera. So that's

1698
01:35:16,120 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 1: the bottom line is they want to go after this

1699
01:35:19,160 --> 01:35:23,360
Speaker 1: man because he embarrassed powerful people through an act of

1700
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:28,440
Speaker 1: journalism and transparency that was vital to the public's understanding

1701
01:35:28,640 --> 01:35:31,200
Speaker 1: of what was being done in our name in these

1702
01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:32,000
Speaker 1: wars abroad.

1703
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:33,800
Speaker 3: So we'll continue to follow it.

1704
01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:36,760
Speaker 1: And as I said, make sure you give Richard met

1705
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:39,200
Speaker 1: Hers to follow or all of the ins and outs

1706
01:35:39,240 --> 01:35:41,000
Speaker 1: of the detail has been following this as closely as

1707
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:44,559
Speaker 1: absolutely anyone understanding the you know, intricate legal processes here

1708
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:46,479
Speaker 1: and what's likely to unfold.

1709
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:49,320
Speaker 4: And I just encourage everyone to read the charges themselves,

1710
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:52,640
Speaker 4: the charges against Julian Assange. I think you'll come to

1711
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:55,840
Speaker 4: the correct conclusion about whether or not this is trumped

1712
01:35:55,920 --> 01:35:58,240
Speaker 4: up and whether or not this is a just prosecution

1713
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:00,879
Speaker 4: of the Espionage Act. If you're read the documents themselves,

1714
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:03,439
Speaker 4: it's pretty clear what's happening.

1715
01:36:03,479 --> 01:36:03,639
Speaker 3: Here.

1716
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:08,840
Speaker 4: John Stewart of course, is back, as you guys have

1717
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:12,240
Speaker 4: covered here Crystal and here. Since that's on Tucker Carlson,

1718
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:14,880
Speaker 4: what's John Stewart been up to on his return to

1719
01:36:14,920 --> 01:36:15,599
Speaker 4: the Daily Show.

1720
01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:18,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, first of all, last week, of course, he

1721
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 1: went after Joe Biden, also Donald trub for his age.

1722
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:25,160
Speaker 3: That created a whole insane freak out.

1723
01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:27,920
Speaker 1: So he started off by responding a bit to his

1724
01:36:28,040 --> 01:36:31,520
Speaker 1: critics and then making a turn into the Tucker Carlson criticism.

1725
01:36:31,640 --> 01:36:34,479
Speaker 1: Let's start with him hitting back at his critics from

1726
01:36:34,560 --> 01:36:35,120
Speaker 1: last week's show.

1727
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:38,559
Speaker 15: Quite frankly, the response to the first show last Monday

1728
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:41,599
Speaker 15: was universally glowing.

1729
01:36:42,479 --> 01:36:45,960
Speaker 14: John Stewart is facing massive backlash from Democrats over his

1730
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:50,000
Speaker 14: comments about Joe Biden. Oberman tweeted, well, after nine years away,

1731
01:36:50,040 --> 01:36:52,200
Speaker 14: there's nothing else to say to the both side as

1732
01:36:52,320 --> 01:36:55,719
Speaker 14: fraud John Stewart bashing Biden, except please make it another

1733
01:36:55,880 --> 01:36:58,960
Speaker 14: nine years. Christy Jackson tweeted, sorry, but I won't be

1734
01:36:59,040 --> 01:36:59,760
Speaker 14: watching you either.

1735
01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:05,200
Speaker 15: Okay, maybe not universal.

1736
01:37:06,840 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 10: Well that was on Twitter.

1737
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:09,320
Speaker 3: Everything on Twitter gets a backlash.

1738
01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:15,120
Speaker 16: I've seen Twitter tellabradoodles to go for themselves aperdoodles. I

1739
01:37:15,240 --> 01:37:17,960
Speaker 16: just think it's better to deal head on with what's

1740
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:19,400
Speaker 16: an apparent issue to people.

1741
01:37:19,520 --> 01:37:24,320
Speaker 17: I mean, we're we're just talking here and Mary Trump tweeting.

1742
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:27,280
Speaker 17: Not only is Stuart's both sides are the same rhetoric

1743
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:32,200
Speaker 17: not funny. It's a potential disaster for Democracy's one Joe.

1744
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:33,559
Speaker 14: It was just one Joe.

1745
01:37:34,040 --> 01:37:35,160
Speaker 16: There's twenty minutes.

1746
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:37,760
Speaker 9: I did twenty minutes of one Joe.

1747
01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:43,599
Speaker 15: But I guess, as the famous saying goes, democracy dies

1748
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 15: in discussion.

1749
01:37:47,360 --> 01:37:50,400
Speaker 1: So the Mary Trump one we covered that last week

1750
01:37:50,560 --> 01:37:54,200
Speaker 1: was insanely deranged, Like even that one quote doesn't do

1751
01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 1: a justice. But clearly he is not not too concerned

1752
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:00,559
Speaker 1: about people who did not appreciate his show.

1753
01:38:00,880 --> 01:38:03,840
Speaker 4: It's such a good flashback to the Bush era when

1754
01:38:04,040 --> 01:38:06,800
Speaker 4: we had to like we were all fighting over the

1755
01:38:07,439 --> 01:38:09,960
Speaker 4: dog bone that is John Stewart and whether or not

1756
01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:14,599
Speaker 4: he was destroying democracy. Meanwhile, it's since become obviously apparent

1757
01:38:14,720 --> 01:38:17,120
Speaker 4: that we have a bigger fish to fry when it

1758
01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:23,040
Speaker 4: comes to the preservation of the lowercase American democracy. Crystal.

1759
01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:27,600
Speaker 4: It just feels like such a weird time warp to

1760
01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:30,200
Speaker 4: be debating once again along the lines of what Mary

1761
01:38:30,240 --> 01:38:31,559
Speaker 4: Trump and Keith Olberman are doing.

1762
01:38:32,120 --> 01:38:35,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so true, Keith Olberman, who is still holding

1763
01:38:35,400 --> 01:38:37,760
Speaker 1: on to like the MSMBGC show we had in like

1764
01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:39,200
Speaker 1: two thousand and two or whatever, so.

1765
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:44,439
Speaker 4: Like the same demonious intellectual it's just so stupid. And

1766
01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:46,960
Speaker 4: you remember the moral panics over at the time it

1767
01:38:47,040 --> 01:38:49,920
Speaker 4: was millennials like college students, who it was a decent

1768
01:38:50,040 --> 01:38:52,280
Speaker 4: number said that they got their news from the Daily Show,

1769
01:38:52,360 --> 01:38:56,400
Speaker 4: and there were repeatedly moral panics over what a crisis

1770
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:59,880
Speaker 4: this was for lowercase d democracy that people were going

1771
01:38:59,920 --> 01:39:03,120
Speaker 4: to their news from the Daily Show. And meanwhile, coming

1772
01:39:03,200 --> 01:39:05,439
Speaker 4: down the pipe in ten years was like, TikTok so,

1773
01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:10,439
Speaker 4: well done everyone. You really warned us that this would

1774
01:39:10,479 --> 01:39:14,479
Speaker 4: be a disaster, and everyone took appropriate measures and decided

1775
01:39:14,520 --> 01:39:15,240
Speaker 4: to join TikTok.

1776
01:39:15,640 --> 01:39:18,479
Speaker 1: So the bit that he then turned to is he's like,

1777
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 1: all right, I got to learn how to be more

1778
01:39:20,439 --> 01:39:21,840
Speaker 1: of a shameful propagandast.

1779
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:23,280
Speaker 3: So who can I take notes from?

1780
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:27,280
Speaker 1: And then he pulls up the Tucker interview with Putin

1781
01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:30,760
Speaker 1: and makes this turn into going after Tucker not only

1782
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:35,000
Speaker 1: for that interview but also for his exploits around Mosque.

1783
01:39:35,040 --> 01:39:37,679
Speaker 1: Gower's like look at the subway, look at the grocery stores,

1784
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:41,240
Speaker 1: and this incredible, leaving out the fact that the groceries

1785
01:39:41,280 --> 01:39:43,720
Speaker 1: may be cheaper, but also the wages are way way

1786
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,120
Speaker 1: lower than in the US. Let's take a look at

1787
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:47,800
Speaker 1: a bit of that commentary.

1788
01:39:48,040 --> 01:39:49,479
Speaker 9: How does Russia have.

1789
01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:51,560
Speaker 18: A subway station? The normal people used to get to

1790
01:39:51,640 --> 01:39:55,080
Speaker 18: work at home every single day. It's nicer than anything

1791
01:39:55,360 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 18: in our country. There's no graffiti, there's no filth, no

1792
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:01,240
Speaker 18: foul smells. We're just putting in the car where we

1793
01:40:01,280 --> 01:40:04,760
Speaker 18: would actually eat over a week, and we all came

1794
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:08,240
Speaker 18: in around four hundred bucks. About four hundred bucks it

1795
01:40:08,360 --> 01:40:11,320
Speaker 18: was one hundred and four dollars US here and coming

1796
01:40:11,360 --> 01:40:14,320
Speaker 18: to a Russian grocery store the heart of evil and

1797
01:40:14,479 --> 01:40:17,920
Speaker 18: seeing what things cost and how people live. It will

1798
01:40:18,240 --> 01:40:21,760
Speaker 18: radicalize you against our leaders. That's how I feel anyway.

1799
01:40:21,720 --> 01:40:28,200
Speaker 15: Radicalized, radicalized, and it will radicalize you unless you understand

1800
01:40:28,400 --> 01:40:32,360
Speaker 15: basic economics. See one hundred and four dollars for groceries

1801
01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:35,439
Speaker 15: sounds like a great bargain unless you realize Russians earn

1802
01:40:35,560 --> 01:40:40,080
Speaker 15: less than two hundred dollars a week. Right, Because the

1803
01:40:40,160 --> 01:40:45,680
Speaker 15: difference between our urinal, caked, chaotic subways and your candelabra

1804
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:51,040
Speaker 15: beautiful subways is the literal price of freedom. But the

1805
01:40:51,120 --> 01:40:53,120
Speaker 15: goal that Carlson and his ilk are pushing is that

1806
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:55,280
Speaker 15: there's really no difference between our systems.

1807
01:40:55,320 --> 01:40:57,080
Speaker 4: In fact, theirs might be a little bit better. The

1808
01:40:57,200 --> 01:40:59,920
Speaker 4: question is why why is Tucker doing that?

1809
01:41:00,640 --> 01:41:05,760
Speaker 15: Here's why. It's because the old civilizational battle was communism

1810
01:41:05,880 --> 01:41:09,720
Speaker 15: versus capitalism. That what drove the world since World War Two.

1811
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:12,160
Speaker 15: Russia was the enemy then, but now they think the

1812
01:41:12,240 --> 01:41:17,120
Speaker 15: battle is woke versus unwoke, and in that fight, Putin

1813
01:41:17,280 --> 01:41:22,760
Speaker 15: is an ally to the right. He's their friend. Unfortunately,

1814
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:26,720
Speaker 15: he is also a brutal and ruthless dictator. So now

1815
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:29,800
Speaker 15: they have to make Americans a little more comfortable with that.

1816
01:41:30,400 --> 01:41:33,879
Speaker 15: I mean, liberty is nice, but have you seen Russia's

1817
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:38,560
Speaker 15: shopping carts? And Tucker would have gotten away with it

1818
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:41,560
Speaker 15: if it weren't for those meddling assassins.

1819
01:41:42,479 --> 01:41:44,960
Speaker 17: In a statement to The New York Times, Carlson said, quote,

1820
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:46,759
Speaker 17: it is horrifying what happened to Navalney.

1821
01:41:47,120 --> 01:41:51,000
Speaker 9: The whole thing is barbaric and awful. No decent person

1822
01:41:51,320 --> 01:41:52,080
Speaker 9: would defend it.

1823
01:41:52,840 --> 01:41:55,439
Speaker 15: Correct, No decent person would.

1824
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:57,040
Speaker 3: So what do you think of that part?

1825
01:41:57,080 --> 01:41:57,360
Speaker 9: Emily?

1826
01:41:57,800 --> 01:41:59,920
Speaker 1: I felt like, actually this week it was the term

1827
01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:03,160
Speaker 1: the right to be like really outraged by what John

1828
01:42:03,200 --> 01:42:05,200
Speaker 1: Stewart had to say. I know they didn't like in

1829
01:42:05,280 --> 01:42:08,040
Speaker 1: particular when he says that thing about like the our

1830
01:42:08,280 --> 01:42:10,759
Speaker 1: dirty subways or the price of freedom.

1831
01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:15,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you know, I think that there were the

1832
01:42:15,680 --> 01:42:19,439
Speaker 4: Tucker putin interview Ryan talked about Ryan and I talked

1833
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:21,360
Speaker 4: about this a lot, and so did you and Soccer.

1834
01:42:21,880 --> 01:42:25,000
Speaker 4: I thought that interview was defensive or was defensible. I

1835
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:27,360
Speaker 4: think what happened afterwards in the grocery store and in

1836
01:42:27,439 --> 01:42:31,679
Speaker 4: the subway was mostly silly. But I do think people

1837
01:42:31,760 --> 01:42:34,560
Speaker 4: have been sort of willfully misinterpreting what Tucker Carlson was

1838
01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:36,639
Speaker 4: saying about the subways, which is, you know, I heard

1839
01:42:36,640 --> 01:42:38,479
Speaker 4: a lot of people being like, Russia is poorer than

1840
01:42:38,479 --> 01:42:41,599
Speaker 4: the poorest US state, Mississippi, And I think the point

1841
01:42:41,800 --> 01:42:45,639
Speaker 4: is right. So why doesn't you know, Mississippi have glistening

1842
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:49,880
Speaker 4: infrastructure if we're if we're that much wealthier, why can't

1843
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:51,880
Speaker 4: we also have our cake and eat it too? Why

1844
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:55,439
Speaker 4: not both? Which I think is an entirely legitimate question.

1845
01:42:56,040 --> 01:42:59,360
Speaker 4: That said, you know, Tucker and John Stewart have a

1846
01:42:59,720 --> 01:43:02,400
Speaker 4: story read history, like one of the famous moments with

1847
01:43:02,479 --> 01:43:06,839
Speaker 4: all of their career involves each other. When John Stewart

1848
01:43:07,160 --> 01:43:11,320
Speaker 4: told Tucker Carlson that Crossfire on air, Tucker was interviewing

1849
01:43:11,720 --> 01:43:13,960
Speaker 4: John Stewart with I think it was Paul Bagala around

1850
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:18,600
Speaker 4: two thousand that Crossfire was destroying democracy, sort of the

1851
01:43:18,640 --> 01:43:21,120
Speaker 4: same attack that Mary Trump made against him, but he

1852
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:24,360
Speaker 4: was making it against the sort of performative and theatrical

1853
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:28,720
Speaker 4: debates that happened on CNN via Crossfire. I actually think

1854
01:43:28,760 --> 01:43:31,160
Speaker 4: John Stewart was wrong in that. I think it's great

1855
01:43:31,240 --> 01:43:34,200
Speaker 4: to have, you know, political theater because it allows us

1856
01:43:34,479 --> 01:43:38,519
Speaker 4: it's a catharsis, it's a cultural catharsis. That said, the

1857
01:43:38,600 --> 01:43:41,080
Speaker 4: two of them do have history, so it's not surprising

1858
01:43:41,160 --> 01:43:43,320
Speaker 4: at all that John Stewart's like one of his first

1859
01:43:43,520 --> 01:43:46,559
Speaker 4: big swings back at the Daily Show, which, by the way,

1860
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:49,479
Speaker 4: he is such a distinct host that nobody else could

1861
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:51,720
Speaker 4: do it. I think it's very clear that nobody else

1862
01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:54,479
Speaker 4: can own the Daily Show property like like John Stewart

1863
01:43:54,520 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 4: can and you know, occasionally be hilarious. Like there's some

1864
01:43:58,240 --> 01:44:02,040
Speaker 4: really good moments in his approach to Tucker's or his

1865
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:05,519
Speaker 4: points against Tucker's exploration of the Russian grocery store in

1866
01:44:05,640 --> 01:44:10,080
Speaker 4: some ways though, because it was so rife for a takedown,

1867
01:44:10,280 --> 01:44:13,160
Speaker 4: and so yeah, Crystal, all I can say is, honestly,

1868
01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:15,920
Speaker 4: I'm glad that he gave up what he was doing

1869
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:19,000
Speaker 4: for Apple because I found it to be sort of insufferable.

1870
01:44:19,120 --> 01:44:21,000
Speaker 4: And this is a much better version of John Stewart.

1871
01:44:21,040 --> 01:44:22,680
Speaker 4: I wish Stephen Colbert would do the same thing.

1872
01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:26,479
Speaker 3: I liked some of what he did with the Apple especially.

1873
01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:29,360
Speaker 1: I mean, he did these very serious interviews with people

1874
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:31,920
Speaker 1: who were just like, oh, John Stewart's gonna interview me, sure,

1875
01:44:32,720 --> 01:44:35,280
Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, I'll sit down with you, you know,

1876
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:38,360
Speaker 1: and then he just he's actually a phenomenal interviewer and

1877
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:40,400
Speaker 1: would hold their feet to the fire and gives zero

1878
01:44:40,520 --> 01:44:42,040
Speaker 1: fuckx apparently about.

1879
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 3: Them caring, you know, liking him or whatever.

1880
01:44:44,520 --> 01:44:46,320
Speaker 1: So there were moments that I thought were great in

1881
01:44:46,360 --> 01:44:48,400
Speaker 1: The Apple Show, but he left because of censorship, and

1882
01:44:48,560 --> 01:44:49,960
Speaker 1: so I really admire that.

1883
01:44:50,160 --> 01:44:52,559
Speaker 3: It's great to have back on Monday nights. I'm sure

1884
01:44:52,720 --> 01:44:54,479
Speaker 3: you know, there have already been moments where I don't

1885
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:56,800
Speaker 3: agree with him. That's fine. I don't have to agree

1886
01:44:56,840 --> 01:44:58,559
Speaker 3: with everywhere that this comedian is saying.

1887
01:44:58,720 --> 01:45:03,240
Speaker 1: It's not you know you do, Crystal, guys, but you know,

1888
01:45:03,360 --> 01:45:06,040
Speaker 1: to be honestly, I didn't even put together that crossfire

1889
01:45:06,479 --> 01:45:10,440
Speaker 1: callback that this going after Tucker now actually represents.

1890
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:13,080
Speaker 3: So that is kind of perfect in a certain sense.

1891
01:45:13,560 --> 01:45:14,240
Speaker 5: It really is.

1892
01:45:14,400 --> 01:45:16,360
Speaker 4: It's like full circle moment. Yeah.

1893
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:19,320
Speaker 1: Indeed, all right, guys, Well, we have a fantastic guest

1894
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:20,160
Speaker 1: standing by.

1895
01:45:20,240 --> 01:45:20,800
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and.

1896
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:21,040
Speaker 9: Get to that.

1897
01:45:21,240 --> 01:45:23,200
Speaker 4: Chrystal, we're so excited to be joined by our guest

1898
01:45:23,320 --> 01:45:26,519
Speaker 4: this morning. Tell us a little bit about j D Belcher.

1899
01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:28,679
Speaker 4: We're very excited to be joined by j D. Crystal,

1900
01:45:28,800 --> 01:45:30,240
Speaker 4: tell us a little bit about JD. I know you

1901
01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:31,439
Speaker 4: guys go a long way back.

1902
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:34,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an old friend of mine. Nice to see you, JD.

1903
01:45:34,560 --> 01:45:39,000
Speaker 1: He's a former coal miner, herrn documentarian now runs JJN

1904
01:45:39,120 --> 01:45:42,599
Speaker 1: Multimedia marketing agency in southern West Virginia, and for more

1905
01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:46,799
Speaker 1: than three years he's been working on a separate podcast project,

1906
01:45:47,240 --> 01:45:50,920
Speaker 1: digging into the Upper Big Branch Mind disaster that for

1907
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:53,240
Speaker 1: you guys that may not recall as an explosion that

1908
01:45:53,320 --> 01:45:57,760
Speaker 1: occurred on April fifth and twenty ten killed twenty nine

1909
01:45:58,240 --> 01:46:02,240
Speaker 1: coal miners, and obviously that tragedy continuing to reverberate throughout

1910
01:46:02,360 --> 01:46:05,000
Speaker 1: the West Virginia and southern West Virginian particular community.

1911
01:46:05,040 --> 01:46:05,880
Speaker 3: It's great to see you, JD.

1912
01:46:06,560 --> 01:46:08,360
Speaker 9: Thanks for having me Chrystal, I really appreciate it.

1913
01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:09,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's my pleasure.

1914
01:46:09,800 --> 01:46:12,680
Speaker 1: So before we get into you telling us why you

1915
01:46:12,760 --> 01:46:15,479
Speaker 1: wanted to tell this story, you put together an incredible

1916
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:18,280
Speaker 1: trailer so that people can get a sense of what

1917
01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:19,679
Speaker 1: this podcast is all about.

1918
01:46:19,760 --> 01:46:20,559
Speaker 3: Let's take a look at that.

1919
01:46:24,840 --> 01:46:27,639
Speaker 19: New findings and charges in the investigation of the Upper

1920
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:31,240
Speaker 19: Big Branch mind disaster in West Virginia. Twenty nine men

1921
01:46:31,320 --> 01:46:34,840
Speaker 19: were killed on April fifth, twenty ten, after an explosion

1922
01:46:34,880 --> 01:46:37,120
Speaker 19: at the mine then owned by Massy Energy.

1923
01:46:39,200 --> 01:46:42,920
Speaker 20: Prior to the explosion, he loved being a coal owner

1924
01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:44,519
Speaker 20: and he was a good boss.

1925
01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:47,439
Speaker 3: He would never ask you to do something that he

1926
01:46:47,479 --> 01:46:49,840
Speaker 3: wouldn't do. That coal dust that you mentioned, there was

1927
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:50,560
Speaker 3: so much of it.

1928
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:53,760
Speaker 18: Massive explosion that course through the mind because of the

1929
01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:55,400
Speaker 18: presence of all that coaldst But.

1930
01:46:55,479 --> 01:46:57,720
Speaker 8: We know that the gas came quickly. We know it

1931
01:46:57,840 --> 01:46:58,679
Speaker 8: was natural gas.

1932
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:01,960
Speaker 4: That's his sory. The investigations all found.

1933
01:47:01,720 --> 01:47:04,000
Speaker 10: Otherwise, and the only thing that they was worried about

1934
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:06,679
Speaker 10: was making sure the long while would run the way.

1935
01:47:06,560 --> 01:47:07,120
Speaker 8: It was supposed to.

1936
01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:08,560
Speaker 9: Is that your money maker.

1937
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:13,080
Speaker 8: Call?

1938
01:47:14,760 --> 01:47:18,040
Speaker 1: So, JD, what part of this story did you feel

1939
01:47:18,080 --> 01:47:19,200
Speaker 1: like still needed to be told?

1940
01:47:20,040 --> 01:47:23,439
Speaker 9: Sure? So, you know, there's been several attempts to do

1941
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:25,080
Speaker 9: this that were great attempts.

1942
01:47:25,160 --> 01:47:27,800
Speaker 20: This isn't to slight those, but I felt like there

1943
01:47:27,920 --> 01:47:32,000
Speaker 20: needed to be a comprehensive effort to tell the story

1944
01:47:32,040 --> 01:47:34,840
Speaker 20: of Upper Big Branch, which first and foremost holding the

1945
01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:37,880
Speaker 20: twenty nine miners and their families in the forefront of

1946
01:47:38,040 --> 01:47:41,400
Speaker 20: respect and dignity and explaining who they were and the

1947
01:47:41,479 --> 01:47:43,760
Speaker 20: emotion of this tragedy and just what it did to

1948
01:47:43,840 --> 01:47:46,920
Speaker 20: these communities, but also going into the facts of the

1949
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:51,960
Speaker 20: investigation and trying to answer, you know, basically, where is

1950
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:54,280
Speaker 20: coal mining today and are we being as safe as

1951
01:47:54,320 --> 01:47:57,640
Speaker 20: we possibly can? And I feel, you know, confident that

1952
01:47:58,200 --> 01:48:00,360
Speaker 20: we lay out the facts enough in a number biased

1953
01:48:00,439 --> 01:48:02,720
Speaker 20: way to where you know, the.

1954
01:48:02,800 --> 01:48:06,680
Speaker 9: Listener can make their own decision about the tragedy. And

1955
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:08,880
Speaker 9: it's just overall devastating.

1956
01:48:09,160 --> 01:48:13,560
Speaker 20: So a warning there, it's not it's not for the

1957
01:48:13,600 --> 01:48:17,400
Speaker 20: faint of heart, and it is absolutely devastating what these

1958
01:48:17,439 --> 01:48:18,360
Speaker 20: families have went through.

1959
01:48:19,439 --> 01:48:22,240
Speaker 4: And j D, if people were listening to the trailer,

1960
01:48:22,280 --> 01:48:24,280
Speaker 4: they may not have caught the image of Joe Manchin.

1961
01:48:24,280 --> 01:48:26,360
Speaker 4: If you're watching it, you certainly saw Joe Manchin and

1962
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:29,000
Speaker 4: the trailer. I just want to ask about the sort

1963
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:32,160
Speaker 4: of politics of all of this in the last fourteen years.

1964
01:48:32,240 --> 01:48:34,799
Speaker 4: Obviously a lot of some of the same characters are involved.

1965
01:48:34,840 --> 01:48:38,439
Speaker 4: West Virginia politics are a very interesting thing, as many

1966
01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:41,000
Speaker 4: people know. So what can you tell us about, you know,

1967
01:48:41,160 --> 01:48:45,479
Speaker 4: whether people who are responsible for this politically in terms

1968
01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:49,800
Speaker 4: of the business community have been held responsible and to

1969
01:48:49,880 --> 01:48:54,080
Speaker 4: what extent are people that may share some culpability are

1970
01:48:54,640 --> 01:48:57,160
Speaker 4: still you know, major figures in West Virginia politics.

1971
01:48:58,360 --> 01:49:01,759
Speaker 9: Sure, and obviously politics was heavily involved.

1972
01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:07,200
Speaker 20: Senator Mansion, then Governor Mansion at the time was there

1973
01:49:07,320 --> 01:49:10,040
Speaker 20: for the whole week with the families waiting for.

1974
01:49:10,160 --> 01:49:12,160
Speaker 9: Updates, given updates to the public.

1975
01:49:12,840 --> 01:49:16,920
Speaker 20: So, you know, I think overall the feeling is just

1976
01:49:17,360 --> 01:49:21,360
Speaker 20: of you know, there's a closure is hard to find,

1977
01:49:22,080 --> 01:49:26,600
Speaker 20: and people across the board just don't feel that accountability

1978
01:49:26,680 --> 01:49:30,400
Speaker 20: has really been taken on, you know, any sides involved.

1979
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:32,559
Speaker 9: You know, obviously the investigation.

1980
01:49:32,200 --> 01:49:36,320
Speaker 20: Found that the company was to blame on certain lack

1981
01:49:36,400 --> 01:49:40,040
Speaker 20: of safety standards that they were holding at their mind,

1982
01:49:41,040 --> 01:49:43,400
Speaker 20: and we go through all of this, you know, there

1983
01:49:43,439 --> 01:49:47,360
Speaker 20: were prison sentence given out, and you know there was

1984
01:49:47,439 --> 01:49:49,920
Speaker 20: a two hundred and nine million dollar judgment agreed with

1985
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:54,240
Speaker 20: Alpha Natural Resources who purchased Mass the energy to do

1986
01:49:54,439 --> 01:50:00,960
Speaker 20: certain things like research and restitution obviously, and and finds

1987
01:50:01,040 --> 01:50:03,360
Speaker 20: there's a ten point eight million dollars fine given out.

1988
01:50:03,680 --> 01:50:08,800
Speaker 20: But overall, you know, people are still pointing fingers and saying, Oh,

1989
01:50:08,920 --> 01:50:10,960
Speaker 20: it was this side, or oh it was that side.

1990
01:50:11,040 --> 01:50:13,800
Speaker 20: You know, it was MS's fault, it was Massy's fault,

1991
01:50:14,200 --> 01:50:16,960
Speaker 20: and you know, overall, I think we just need to

1992
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:20,639
Speaker 20: come together and analyze where the coal industry is today

1993
01:50:20,680 --> 01:50:24,360
Speaker 20: and figure out are we getting complacent because since then,

1994
01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:27,519
Speaker 20: you know, forty eight coal miners died in twenty ten.

1995
01:50:28,080 --> 01:50:31,240
Speaker 20: Since then, from twenty eleven on, over one hundred and

1996
01:50:31,320 --> 01:50:35,840
Speaker 20: fifty coal miners have died on the job. So, you know,

1997
01:50:36,120 --> 01:50:38,640
Speaker 20: I just don't believe that any coal miner needs to

1998
01:50:38,680 --> 01:50:40,599
Speaker 20: go to work worried if they're going to come home.

1999
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:43,479
Speaker 20: I think we can do a better job across the board.

2000
01:50:43,560 --> 01:50:46,240
Speaker 20: I'm figuring out just what we can do to make

2001
01:50:46,320 --> 01:50:47,120
Speaker 20: things better.

2002
01:50:47,479 --> 01:50:50,800
Speaker 1: And what do you think that should be done that

2003
01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:53,400
Speaker 1: would make things better, that would keep coal miners safe

2004
01:50:53,439 --> 01:50:53,880
Speaker 1: on the job.

2005
01:50:54,360 --> 01:50:57,360
Speaker 20: Oh yeah, Well, there's one thing I know we can

2006
01:50:57,479 --> 01:51:01,080
Speaker 20: change right now, and it is requiring organ respirators for

2007
01:51:01,320 --> 01:51:04,920
Speaker 20: mine rescue teams when they enter a mine. So I'll

2008
01:51:04,960 --> 01:51:06,560
Speaker 20: touch on this lightly, but we go over it in

2009
01:51:06,640 --> 01:51:09,759
Speaker 20: the podcast. The lead investigator for the state, Bill Tucker,

2010
01:51:10,240 --> 01:51:12,559
Speaker 20: does an extensive interview with me. We talked for over

2011
01:51:12,680 --> 01:51:16,000
Speaker 20: two hours, and on the podcast we discussed his breathing

2012
01:51:16,080 --> 01:51:18,880
Speaker 20: issues and he can barely walk across the yard without

2013
01:51:18,960 --> 01:51:22,280
Speaker 20: setting down to take a breath, and that was found

2014
01:51:22,560 --> 01:51:27,120
Speaker 20: to be the blame of his role in the investigation.

2015
01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:31,360
Speaker 20: So there's something called baar faced exploration, which basically means

2016
01:51:31,920 --> 01:51:35,200
Speaker 20: after an explosion, a mine rescue team's goal is to

2017
01:51:35,439 --> 01:51:38,920
Speaker 20: save lives. They have an apparatus on their back that

2018
01:51:39,040 --> 01:51:41,640
Speaker 20: they go it's called going under air that gives them

2019
01:51:41,720 --> 01:51:45,840
Speaker 20: four hours of oxygen well up until then up until

2020
01:51:45,880 --> 01:51:49,400
Speaker 20: a certain level. When their oxygen and carbon monoxide readings

2021
01:51:49,400 --> 01:51:53,880
Speaker 20: get to a certain level, they go bear faced, which

2022
01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:56,080
Speaker 20: basically means they go in the mind with nothing on

2023
01:51:56,160 --> 01:51:58,720
Speaker 20: their face until a certain extent. To put that to

2024
01:51:58,800 --> 01:52:01,840
Speaker 20: go under air and say that our ex so he

2025
01:52:01,920 --> 01:52:06,120
Speaker 20: actually had a panel of doctors fine that his issue

2026
01:52:06,200 --> 01:52:10,880
Speaker 20: was called cause directly because of UBB in his role,

2027
01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:15,360
Speaker 20: and he filed for workers comp. Well, the state contested

2028
01:52:15,439 --> 01:52:18,280
Speaker 20: his workers comp. They sent him to a panel of

2029
01:52:18,360 --> 01:52:22,840
Speaker 20: their doctors. Their doctors concurred with his doctors that it

2030
01:52:22,960 --> 01:52:26,639
Speaker 20: was directly as a result to his role in UBB

2031
01:52:27,120 --> 01:52:31,560
Speaker 20: in the investigation. So it's on record that this was

2032
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:35,160
Speaker 20: you know, have they done bron costpes lung testing on

2033
01:52:35,360 --> 01:52:39,200
Speaker 20: him and said, without a doubt this is what happened.

2034
01:52:39,640 --> 01:52:43,920
Speaker 20: And he was thankfully awarded his workers comp and you

2035
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:45,800
Speaker 20: know they're still on the books today. You can look

2036
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:49,000
Speaker 20: it up. It's called bare faced exploration. I think that

2037
01:52:49,120 --> 01:52:51,559
Speaker 20: needs to be eliminated and that's something we can cheaply

2038
01:52:51,680 --> 01:52:54,639
Speaker 20: do now that can preserve quality of life.

2039
01:52:54,880 --> 01:52:56,040
Speaker 9: So that's number one.

2040
01:52:56,479 --> 01:52:58,920
Speaker 20: But there's you know, other things like is the pattern

2041
01:52:58,960 --> 01:53:02,120
Speaker 20: of violation system and enforced, which those who don't know

2042
01:53:02,280 --> 01:53:06,160
Speaker 20: basically that's Imsha's ability to go in a mind that

2043
01:53:06,479 --> 01:53:11,680
Speaker 20: has so many serious violations they can go in this

2044
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:15,400
Speaker 20: mine and shut it down. Well before UBB in thirty

2045
01:53:15,439 --> 01:53:20,240
Speaker 20: two years, the POV system was enacted once WOW and

2046
01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:25,320
Speaker 20: it was found to have a computer glitch in their system.

2047
01:53:25,880 --> 01:53:28,840
Speaker 20: From two thousand and seven on and now. Granted I

2048
01:53:28,920 --> 01:53:31,280
Speaker 20: want to make sure people know that wouldn't have affected ubb.

2049
01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:34,000
Speaker 20: They could have been placed on a pattern of violation

2050
01:53:34,200 --> 01:53:37,200
Speaker 20: system in the past, but they would not have been

2051
01:53:37,760 --> 01:53:40,400
Speaker 20: on a pattern of violation system when this occurred. But

2052
01:53:41,160 --> 01:53:43,080
Speaker 20: I think that's something we need to look at and

2053
01:53:43,200 --> 01:53:45,720
Speaker 20: make sure it's running properly, no doubt about it.

2054
01:53:46,560 --> 01:53:48,280
Speaker 4: My last question, Judea, is just what it was like

2055
01:53:48,400 --> 01:53:50,439
Speaker 4: to go and talk to some of these families and

2056
01:53:50,640 --> 01:53:55,280
Speaker 4: as they've been sort of reflecting on what happened, what

2057
01:53:55,400 --> 01:53:58,280
Speaker 4: can you tell us just about where they are, what's

2058
01:53:58,360 --> 01:54:01,240
Speaker 4: maybe happened to them in the decade place sense, what

2059
01:54:01,439 --> 01:54:05,160
Speaker 4: was that like to re engage on this really difficult

2060
01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:06,000
Speaker 4: moment in their lives.

2061
01:54:06,479 --> 01:54:11,400
Speaker 20: Sure, it's I mean devastating is the word. There's just

2062
01:54:12,280 --> 01:54:16,960
Speaker 20: there's still mourning loss every single day and they're hurting

2063
01:54:17,840 --> 01:54:21,560
Speaker 20: and their loved ones are not here. They got a

2064
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:24,880
Speaker 20: phone call that just you know, this explosion happened, and

2065
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:26,559
Speaker 20: they never talked to them again.

2066
01:54:27,240 --> 01:54:30,840
Speaker 9: So it was just a heavy, heavy presence.

2067
01:54:31,560 --> 01:54:35,040
Speaker 20: I read the eulogies of all twenty nine on the podcast,

2068
01:54:35,200 --> 01:54:39,800
Speaker 20: and just seeing their faces is just a constant, heavy presence.

2069
01:54:39,880 --> 01:54:45,160
Speaker 20: And also a responsibility to get this right. They are

2070
01:54:46,080 --> 01:54:50,840
Speaker 20: them and their families did not nothing wrong whatsoever, And

2071
01:54:53,160 --> 01:54:56,880
Speaker 20: I just felt the need to explain what a coal

2072
01:54:56,960 --> 01:54:59,200
Speaker 20: miner is. You hear on a national narrative what a

2073
01:54:59,240 --> 01:55:03,080
Speaker 20: typical West Virginian is, and I always call bs. Usually

2074
01:55:03,440 --> 01:55:06,560
Speaker 20: sometimes we get it right, but you know, I felt

2075
01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:10,520
Speaker 20: that this story needed to be told by a West Virginian.

2076
01:55:10,600 --> 01:55:12,800
Speaker 20: And I now was a surface coal miner for nine

2077
01:55:12,840 --> 01:55:14,640
Speaker 20: years of my life, so I know what the culture

2078
01:55:14,800 --> 01:55:18,520
Speaker 20: is and I know what kind of people coal miners are,

2079
01:55:19,360 --> 01:55:22,880
Speaker 20: and I wanted to be sure to respect that with

2080
01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:23,560
Speaker 20: the story.

2081
01:55:24,240 --> 01:55:27,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you you absolutely did that.

2082
01:55:27,400 --> 01:55:30,680
Speaker 1: And it's an important story not only for West Virginia

2083
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:35,720
Speaker 1: and for you know, uplifting the culture and the people

2084
01:55:35,720 --> 01:55:38,320
Speaker 1: who suffered losses there, but also for understanding this is

2085
01:55:38,400 --> 01:55:42,320
Speaker 1: a story about greed and you know a failure of

2086
01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:45,960
Speaker 1: politicians and a lack of accountability, and in that way,

2087
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:49,240
Speaker 1: it is an incredibly universal story. Jad just tell people

2088
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:51,960
Speaker 1: the name of the podcast, where they can find it

2089
01:55:52,120 --> 01:55:52,720
Speaker 1: and where they can.

2090
01:55:52,720 --> 01:55:53,600
Speaker 3: Follow your work.

2091
01:55:54,240 --> 01:55:57,760
Speaker 20: Sure you'd be be a coal miner story. And we've

2092
01:55:57,800 --> 01:56:00,280
Speaker 20: been getting a lot of traction on the website for

2093
01:56:00,320 --> 01:56:02,640
Speaker 20: a lot of people who aren't podcast savvy. There's a

2094
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:05,160
Speaker 20: lot of elderly that was wanting to listen. You can

2095
01:56:05,200 --> 01:56:07,880
Speaker 20: send them to Upper Big Branch dot com. You can

2096
01:56:07,960 --> 01:56:10,839
Speaker 20: listen to every episode there. We also have a Facebook

2097
01:56:10,880 --> 01:56:12,920
Speaker 20: community going, so if you want to get involved in

2098
01:56:13,000 --> 01:56:16,560
Speaker 20: the conversation, we have debates on there, and you know,

2099
01:56:16,640 --> 01:56:18,840
Speaker 20: we keep it civil and that we're just trying to

2100
01:56:18,880 --> 01:56:21,840
Speaker 20: figure out where we're at in the coal industry and

2101
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:25,480
Speaker 20: anywhere else that you get your podcasts. It's pretty much available.

2102
01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:27,720
Speaker 20: I think there's nearly twenty platforms it's on, and I

2103
01:56:27,800 --> 01:56:31,440
Speaker 20: want to make sure. Note two, this is a nonprofit,

2104
01:56:32,000 --> 01:56:35,520
Speaker 20: educational purposes only endeavor. I'm not making one dollar on

2105
01:56:35,640 --> 01:56:39,680
Speaker 20: this for reimbursement or profit or anything. So I just

2106
01:56:39,760 --> 01:56:42,120
Speaker 20: want people to learn about this and us figure.

2107
01:56:41,920 --> 01:56:42,600
Speaker 9: This out together.

2108
01:56:43,280 --> 01:56:49,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, guys, please check on the podcast. JD incredible work. Congratulations.

2109
01:56:49,120 --> 01:56:51,720
Speaker 1: I know this has been a long term project in

2110
01:56:51,800 --> 01:56:54,520
Speaker 1: liabor of love for you, so thank you, thank you.

2111
01:56:54,680 --> 01:56:57,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate it absolutely, and thank you guys so much

2112
01:56:57,920 --> 01:57:00,440
Speaker 1: for watching out there. I will be back again. If

2113
01:57:00,480 --> 01:57:03,640
Speaker 1: you're not sick of me with soccer tomorrow, Emily always

2114
01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:05,880
Speaker 1: find a host with you and I will see you

2115
01:57:05,880 --> 01:57:06,360
Speaker 1: guys tomorrow.

2116
01:57:06,880 --> 01:57:09,640
Speaker 4: Sounds good, That doesn't for us on today's counterpoints. We'll

2117
01:57:09,680 --> 01:57:12,160
Speaker 4: be back next week with more counterpoints. Obviously, Chrystal, we'll

2118
01:57:12,160 --> 01:57:15,080
Speaker 4: be back tomorrow. You can find the link to JD's

2119
01:57:15,120 --> 01:57:17,680
Speaker 4: podcast in the description of this video. Of course, make

2120
01:57:17,720 --> 01:57:19,720
Speaker 4: sure to check that out. We'll see you back here

2121
01:57:19,800 --> 01:57:20,200
Speaker 4: next week.