1 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports show, but we 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: explore the big money issues in the world of sports. 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: Michael barn I'm Scarlett Foul and I'm Damien sasur H. 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: This is a very serious topic. Thursday night football game 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: between the Miami Dolphins and the Cincinnati Bengals. Dolphins quarterback 6 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: to Taga Faiola was sacked and I mean slammed to 7 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: the ground. It caused him to suffer an apparent hit 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: injury later ruled to be a concussion after suffering what 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: appeared to be another concussion just four days later, joining 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: us in studio to discuss the NFL's concussion protocols, the 11 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: medical translation of it all, and how the team handled 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: his evaluation is Bloomberg reporter Shred Taylor Shree, thank you 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: so much for joining us on the Bloomberg Businesses Sports. Hi, 14 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Now. I was watching both games, 15 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: and I mean he was slung to the ground. I 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: mean it's like and he his fingers were bent one way, 17 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: and I had never seen that before. There's a term 18 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: for that tree which you were saying. It's called the 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: fencing response. So basically when your body just kind of 20 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: twitches into this response that is just a clear indicator 21 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: of brain trauma or a concussion or any head injury. 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: And it involves his fingers, his hands curling up into 23 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: this this unusual position that almost resembles a fetus, right. 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: So it kind of goes back to this fencing reflex 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: which occurs in newborn's um and asymmetrical tonic neck reflex. UM. 26 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: It's when newborn babies positioned themselves with one arm flexed 27 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: and the other extended, you know, kind of like a 28 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: fencer in that way. UM. And we think this occurs 29 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: after a head injury because you know, it's thought that 30 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,920 Speaker 1: if a blow impacts of brainstem, it might momentarily reactivate 31 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: that response. It's I mean, everyone was really really scared. 32 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:03,279 Speaker 1: Head injury experts, UM, neurological doctors, UM. You know, past 33 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 1: professional players who have kind of been through this in 34 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: their own careers and have dealt with this firsthand. UM, 35 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: and even just concerned fans were like, you know what's 36 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: going on here? UM. And this isn't the first time that, uh, 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: the NFL concussion protocol has kind of been put into question. 38 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: It actually started UM back in two thousand eleven when 39 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: a player, I think on the Cleveland Browns. He took 40 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: a hit helmet to helmet hit with another player and 41 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: then um, just continued to play with a concussion because 42 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: there were no medical personnel looking out for him. There's 43 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: no process in place, right exactly. So you know, there's 44 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: kind of a dark history with this, you know, and 45 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: it's kind of a vicious pattern that keeps happening. Well three, 46 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: here we are a week later, right and we and 47 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: I think my kid on it before, you know, even 48 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 1: before that, you know, um, when the Dolphins beat the Bills, 49 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: that's and you know we thought too had initially had 50 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: a concussion. It was ruled as a back injury. It 51 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: was revealed just this week that the NFL and its 52 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: player union, basically the unaffiliated neurotrauma consultant that cleared to 53 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,919 Speaker 1: a was fired. Right, So clearly there's something that went 54 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: wrong in the process. I wonder if you could tell 55 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: us after that Bills game, you know, clearing to it 56 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: a play and then all that we've learned, you know, 57 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: since then, you know what needs to change, what's gone wrong. 58 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 1: The current protocol is when a player exhibits symptoms of 59 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: of a potential head injury that could point to a 60 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: potential concussion. UM an independent athletic trainer in a TC 61 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: spot or calls a time out. Also, anyone can call 62 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: a time out basically from you know, team trainers to 63 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: UM coaches to even UH fellow teammates. UM. So, once 64 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: the protocol is triggered, team position and u UNC an 65 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: unaffiliated neuro trauma consultant look at the player and determined 66 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: of those severity of the injury calls for a complete 67 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,080 Speaker 1: removal from the game or not. So if the player 68 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: isn't good to go, then they whisk him off to 69 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: the locker room for for their examination UM and then 70 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: they ultimately determined from there what the issue is. So 71 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: some experts have called for just a better development of 72 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: you know, helmets, maybe someone to oversee that the concussion 73 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: protocol is you know, being thoroughly done. But for now 74 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the answer is. UM. Clearly players 75 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 1: aren't being their health isn't being prioritized in observation before 76 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: I asked the next question, and Damian, you you touched 77 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: off on it about the game before that Thursday night 78 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: game where you knew he had a concussion and they said, oh, 79 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: it's a back injury. Well, as he's trying to get 80 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: up off the field, he falls back down and I'm like, oh, 81 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: that that's a concussion, And all of a sudden it's like, 82 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 1: now that's a back injury. I'm like, well, what the 83 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: hell game when you guys watching because he fell down 84 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: on the ground And I don't understand why right there 85 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: they didn't say, hey, you got a concussion. At least 86 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: do something there. This is a lot of attention has 87 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: been called to this now, uh which And like you 88 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: was saying, Street, there was not enough attention back in 89 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: the day. And I'm saying back in the day when 90 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: I used to start getting into football in the late sixties, 91 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: early seventies, and the helmet was nothing like what they 92 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: have now. And I remember a hit watching Monday Night football, 93 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: Tony Dorset. I know, I'm gonna bring a name way 94 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: from the past. Yeah, I know, I know back when 95 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: the Star had when they had ten planets back then. 96 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: And he took a hit and the hit was so 97 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:52,719 Speaker 1: hard it jarred as helmet crooked sideways and you knew 98 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: it forgive the term that you know. They kept saying 99 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: his bell got wrunk, and yes it did. It is 100 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: hard and yeah, it was, and now Tony dorssett Um 101 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: he says, you know, he has problems too with CTE 102 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: because a lot of these players had it. And I 103 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: go on, sure you about the stories. Why did it? 104 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: I'm just asking your opinion. Why do you think it 105 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: had taken so long for the league to say, hey, 106 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: we got to do something. I think it's just the 107 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: pressure to play and pressure to get these players back 108 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: in there. Um. You know, they're not really prioritizing players health, 109 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: and that's because they want them back in the game, 110 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: you know, so they can continue to play and you know, 111 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: in the end continue to make the team money and 112 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:46,239 Speaker 1: and just keep things going. And that's what experts believe 113 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 1: to Um. So there's no clear motivator, but that's just 114 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: what it seems like, you know. That's what all signs 115 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: for me, at least kind of point to is just 116 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: this like huge pressure to play. You know, players are 117 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: probably thinking, I have to get back into the game. 118 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: They're probably downplaying their own injuries. So yeah, and this 119 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: happens across different leagues of sports and different levels of 120 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 1: sports too, right, I mean from youth sports to college sports. Players, um, 121 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: especially if they haven't suffered a huge injury, want to 122 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: get back on the field. Yeah, they keep going back 123 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: in UM. And a lot of serious injuries that can 124 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: develop into you know, something as severe as cte um 125 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: or even you know, dementia later down the line. UM, 126 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: they often go ignored, UM because players and their coaches 127 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 1: and just their team in general want them to get 128 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: back in What about the NFL Players Association. What's their 129 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: stance on this, How has it changed over time? What? 130 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: What have you found in your reporting? UM? What I found? UM? 131 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: And like we mentioned earlier, the labor union representing the 132 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: athletes had already had an ongoing investigation launched UM just 133 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: into the protocol. In general, they've done this before. It 134 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: seems um, you know, just with every high profile head 135 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: injury that kind of takes place on the field. But 136 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: it seems like this league union is you know, trying 137 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: to crack down on you know, what is actually happening 138 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: behind the scenes when a player gets injured. But it 139 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: seems like change is very incremental, It's very small. So 140 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: you know, hopefully this is UH an incentive for both 141 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: the NFL and the league's union to kind of just 142 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: you know, take more action, to make more meaningful steps. Exactly, Damien. 143 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel, but whenever I can't 144 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: even watch football anymore because when someone does get hit, 145 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,559 Speaker 1: there's the instant replay, there's a close ups, there's the commentary, 146 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: which is often, I don't know, not as thoughtful or 147 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: expensive as it could be. That I just can't watch 148 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: it after a while. Well, I can never not watch 149 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 1: football and watch it, but you know what I mean, right, 150 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 1: there's this level of discomfort when you're watching someone over 151 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: and over again. Well, I mean, certainly when you see 152 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: the structure gets pulled out, or somebody's down, and or 153 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: even you just see it, you know, you can see 154 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: the injury, you know, happening. I mean, you know, I 155 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: mean certainly you have to look away. I mean, but 156 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,439 Speaker 1: when he curled his fingers the fencing, I mean, that 157 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,599 Speaker 1: was pretty scary. I mean I've seen that before and 158 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: you know, knockouts in boxing, but you know, I've never 159 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: seen that before in the NFL, and certainly it's got 160 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: everyone's attention here. I mean, there's so many stories that 161 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: I can tell, and I don't know if anybody had 162 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 1: a chance to watch the movie Concussion, made a few 163 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: years ago, and Will Smith, yes, that was the Will 164 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: Smith movie. And there was a character in there, if 165 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: you want to forgive the term, Dave Dowerson, and he 166 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: played for the Chicago Bears. Yeah, and uh I think 167 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: he was one year. I think it was with the 168 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: Giants also, I believe. But what happened he said, wait 169 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: a minute, something is going on here. Now in the movie, 170 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: a friend of his comes to him and it's like, man, 171 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: you gotta help me. I'm going through CT and like 172 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: Doerson's like, what are you talking about? Man? Well, later 173 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: on Darson has the same problem, and what happens is 174 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: that he commits suicide. He shoots himself in the chest 175 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: and before he left he said, I want you guys 176 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: to examine my brain for c t E. And sure 177 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: enough they did and it was there again. I can 178 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: go on and there's someone Mike Webster from the Pittsburgh Steelers. 179 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I can go on and it's just it's 180 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: sad and I wish maybe we would come up with 181 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: more of a way to have the technology for the helmet, 182 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 1: uh or somehow make this game safer. And I'm not 183 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,439 Speaker 1: sure how. I mean, I'm not gonna lie. I love football, 184 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: but it's like there is a problem, the same way 185 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: it is for boxing, same way. You know, you get 186 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: connected and it's like, you know, once your head snaps back, 187 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: you're in trouble. And Uh, it has happened time and 188 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: time again. So I wish it was a more happier 189 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: topic that we were talking about Bloomberg's streets, Taylor, Uh, 190 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: talking about the NFL's concussion protocol. By the way, before 191 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: we move on, Uh, the representatives of the NFL and 192 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,599 Speaker 1: the NFL Players Association, they're trying to meet with to 193 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 1: attack of viola right now about what's going on. So 194 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: I wanted to mention that also, so hopefully they can 195 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: get to the bottom of this street. Thank you again 196 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. Thanks 197 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: for having me, guys. This has been the Bloomberg Business 198 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 1: of Sports when we explore some of the big money 199 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: issues in the world of sports on Michael barn I'm 200 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: Scarlett Fu and I'm Damien Sassur. Hey, if you want 201 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: to look me up on Twitter, you know I'm there. 202 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: You can find me right there at Big Bar Sports 203 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: and I'm at Scarlet Fou and I'm on Twitter at 204 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: d sass Hour and we're every Monday, Wednesday and Thursday 205 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: with Outward Podcast, and you can download the show wherever 206 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,479 Speaker 1: you get them.