Speaker 1: Hello, Hi, Hey, is this Lyle?
Speaker 2: This is what is your name? Uh?
Speaker 1: I'm Coco.
Speaker 2: Coco. What's up? Coco? How's life going? We're recording the
Speaker 2: show right now? Is that cool? Do you want to talk?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I saw. I was hoping i'd be able to
Speaker 1: get on.
Speaker 2: Actually, well, Coco, what's going on? How's life well?
Speaker 1: Longtime listener, first time caller. Wait for a minute.
Speaker 3: Rock and roll, rock and roll.
Speaker 1: I often joke that I'm your oldest listener because I'm
Speaker 1: almost forty. But I did hear somebody the other day
Speaker 1: who I think was thirty nine, So that made me.
Speaker 1: That made me feel atle bit better.
Speaker 2: I think it's general. I mean it's a lot of
Speaker 2: I think like eighteen to twenty five year old, but
Speaker 2: there's people all over the all over the bend. I mean, shit,
Speaker 2: we had a I totally talked to some lady who
Speaker 2: was like fifty something and some lady was like sixty something.
Speaker 2: So I would not say you're the oldest in the bunch.
Speaker 1: Okay, makes me feel better, It makes me feel better. Well,
Speaker 1: I've gotten the pleasure of seeing you live a few times,
Speaker 1: and definitely I've seen you in Dallas twice, and I
Speaker 1: saw you in Orlando.
Speaker 2: Oh cool interest two very not connected at all cities.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, not at all. I had a little condo
Speaker 1: in Florida about an hour away from Orlando, so I
Speaker 1: was always kind of looking and hoping and praying that,
Speaker 1: you know, you would somehow make an appearance there, so
Speaker 1: I had an excuse to drive out there.
Speaker 2: So well, yeah, I'm glad you came. Yeah, I was
Speaker 2: just thinking about those those shows, not like those particular shows,
Speaker 2: but I guess that tour and yeah it was. I
Speaker 2: mean it was a good time because I feel very
Speaker 2: honored to have gotten to do.
Speaker 3: Any of that.
Speaker 2: But you know enough about me, Coco, you said that
Speaker 2: you are. I've been wanting to call into the show
Speaker 2: for a while and if I wanted to give you
Speaker 2: the chance, if is there anything particular you wanted to
Speaker 2: call into the show to talk about. If not, it's cool,
Speaker 2: we can just shoot the shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, for sure. So a lot of life
Speaker 1: changes have happened for me since I saw you last while.
Speaker 1: So I am currently going through divorce after thirteen years
Speaker 1: of being married. So for a hot minute, so I
Speaker 1: feel like I have some wisdom maybe to offer in
Speaker 1: that department. Maybe for some people. So yeah, And actually
Speaker 1: at one of your shows, at one point you had asked,
Speaker 1: is there anybody in here that's been married for ten
Speaker 1: years or longer? And my husband and I at the
Speaker 1: time are the only ones that raised our hands. So
Speaker 1: I'm here to deliver some precautionary tales maybe to some
Speaker 1: people who want to listen.
Speaker 2: Sure, what do you have to precaution us about?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, Lyle, I feel like people are always
Speaker 1: kind of right telling you what you need to do,
Speaker 1: how you need to approach going into this, how cautious
Speaker 1: you need to be, all of the questions that you
Speaker 1: need to ask all of the time that you should wait.
Speaker 1: But I'm definitely I'm an example of how you can
Speaker 1: do all of those things and it's still not work out.
Speaker 3: Hm.
Speaker 2: So I mean, I guess in short, I'm sure there's
Speaker 2: a lot of reasons, and I don't know, you know,
Speaker 2: what you want to talk about and what you don't
Speaker 2: want to talk about, But why did it not work
Speaker 2: out after thirteen years at this point?
Speaker 1: So I kind of I kind of walked around for
Speaker 1: a long time carrying a lot of shame over exactly why,
Speaker 1: or not really wanting to tell people what exactly happened,
Speaker 1: but I kind of told like one person, and so
Speaker 1: now it's just easy for me to trauma dump for
Speaker 1: you know, with anybody who wants who wants to hear.
Speaker 1: So I married a cocaine addict, So I've been I've
Speaker 1: been dealing with that for the last four years, hoping
Speaker 1: and praying that maybe he would either you know, come
Speaker 1: to his senses, maybe he would finally listen to me.
Speaker 1: Maybe someday he would just wake up and just you know, see, hey,
Speaker 1: this is like not not a way to live. We
Speaker 1: as a child together, very successful in his career, making
Speaker 1: six figures pretty much mostly throughout the entirety of our marriage,
Speaker 1: which is which is which is awesome, which is great,
Speaker 1: which is great for him, was great for our family
Speaker 1: and and all of that. But you know, you can't
Speaker 1: make somebody else want that for themselves. And I mean,
Speaker 1: I've I've been listening for such a long time. There
Speaker 1: there are so many people who call in and and
Speaker 1: struggle with this, either that would be know personally or
Speaker 1: or with a partner like I have. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean you can you can lead a horse to water,
Speaker 1: but you can't make him drink, right, mm hmmm hm.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think, uh, I think being married for
Speaker 1: thirteen years, having you know, close to a decade of
Speaker 1: really fantastic memories and awesome experiences. I mean, part of
Speaker 1: the reason we had the you know, condo in Floridas,
Speaker 1: because he had been very successful in his career, and
Speaker 1: then the last four years of our marriage. I mean
Speaker 1: it just I mean it it went downhill quick. It
Speaker 1: went downhill.
Speaker 2: I assume he was not addicted to cocaine when you met.
Speaker 1: Him, not as not that I no, I don't think. So.
Speaker 1: He was a frat a frat boy, so there was
Speaker 1: some red flags there lyle for sure, So for sure.
Speaker 2: How did things begin to go down?
Speaker 1: So I've spent a lot of time pinpointing maybe when, when, when,
Speaker 1: when it happened? When did it start? I didn't I
Speaker 1: didn't use with him or anything like that, And I'm
Speaker 1: not really sure when when the when the first time was. Again,
Speaker 1: this is a this is a you know, a frat
Speaker 1: kid from the suburbs, So I mean could have been
Speaker 1: at any point in time, right, But I don't want
Speaker 1: to say it's a common trope, But there are definitely
Speaker 1: a group of people who you know, started going to
Speaker 1: doctors for legitimate pain care management and kind of got
Speaker 1: in that that loop of being on pay medication legitimately
Speaker 1: but still in in that in that horrible loop. So
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it was after he left to that
Speaker 1: world behind that he just kind of dove into the
Speaker 1: deep end of of of coke, honestly.
Speaker 2: And is that what you would say, is the main
Speaker 2: issue that led to the divorce or was there kind
Speaker 2: of anything else peripheral to that?
Speaker 1: You know, I think that was a huge contributing factor
Speaker 1: to it. I mean, I know that, you know, drug addiction,
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't just stand alone. You know, it's it's
Speaker 1: definitely there's there's other lots of other things that at
Speaker 1: play that that allow that to to live and thrive. Definitely,
Speaker 1: he had some challenges throughout his life. Throughout his life,
Speaker 1: he had a brother that that died when when they
Speaker 1: were kids, and that had a major impact on their family.
Speaker 1: My my in laws are very very conservative, very wasty,
Speaker 1: very let's let's brush things under the rug and let's
Speaker 1: pretend they didn't happen. So he definitely did not get
Speaker 1: the mental health care and support that he really needed
Speaker 1: early on in life. And so I definitely think that
Speaker 1: that was a major contributing factor to right. Just it
Speaker 1: set him right up for something, for something like that.
Speaker 2: And how recently did this happen? That you guys got divorced.
Speaker 1: So we separated in September. I told his parents. It
Speaker 1: got to a point one day I went into his
Speaker 1: office here at our house. I don't know why. Something said,
Speaker 1: just go look in this briefcasete, go look in this pocket.
Speaker 1: So what in his office? Put my hand in the
Speaker 1: first pocket, pulled out a handful of about seventy to
Speaker 1: eighty empty baggies of coke. Yeah, it was a lot.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like I found one. I was like, damn you,
Speaker 1: I can't believe you did this. I mean that this
Speaker 1: was like one instance in a long line of things,
Speaker 1: but in terms of the divorce popping off, that that
Speaker 1: really what sets things off. So I found those and
Speaker 1: I just kind of freaked out. And I had caught
Speaker 1: him in other ways before, never at that level, but
Speaker 1: it was at that time when I thought to myself, Okay,
Speaker 1: holy shit, like this is beyond me. I can't handle
Speaker 1: this alone. There's just no way. There's no me talking
Speaker 1: to him this time. There's no me threatening him this
Speaker 1: time that in any way, shape or form is going
Speaker 1: to be appropriate for handling something this big. So that
Speaker 1: was in May of last year, and so I call
Speaker 1: his parents, which again, you know, there are people who
Speaker 1: you know, don't don't really think that there's any problems,
Speaker 1: and if there are, we're gonna we're gonna cover them
Speaker 1: on up. So I called his mom and tears, saying, look,
Speaker 1: there's this problem, and there's this big problem, and it's
Speaker 1: out of my control. I can't handle it anymore. I
Speaker 1: quite frankly, I don't know what to do. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed. I'm mortified that I'm coming to you telling
Speaker 1: you about, you know, your son and this problem. But
Speaker 1: there was definitely a huge weight lifted off my shoulders
Speaker 1: because she immediately said to me, like, this makes so
Speaker 1: much sense with everything we've seen with him sleeping till
Speaker 1: ten eleven noon, and you know again we have we
Speaker 1: have a child together. Yeah, yeah, we're trying to maintain
Speaker 1: a life, a family and all all this other you know,
Speaker 1: all all all the other stuff that goes along with that.
Speaker 1: So that was in May and last year, and I
Speaker 1: mean basically it was us staging interventions time and time
Speaker 1: and time again for him just to say no, or
Speaker 1: say I'll go and see a therapist, not i'll go
Speaker 1: to treatment, not I'll go and do impatient or output.
Speaker 1: And he would never agree to anything like that. He
Speaker 1: would only ever settle for going to see a therapist
Speaker 1: once a week. Who who told me at one point
Speaker 1: and she lost all credibility to me when she said that, well,
Speaker 1: I think weeds just as bad as coke. So and
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I really am not trusting
Speaker 1: any of the choices he's making right now. But I wasn't.
Speaker 1: I definitely wasn't confident in him, in him wanting or
Speaker 1: maintaining sobriety on his on his own, I was pretty clear.
Speaker 1: But so it was just me and his parents time
Speaker 1: and time again. I spent time with his parents coming
Speaker 1: up with lists of different rehabs and pros and cons
Speaker 1: and you know, just kind of a game plan and
Speaker 1: a game plan for our family and our life and
Speaker 1: our finances because between you know, that time and basically
Speaker 1: the time that we split up, I mean, any money
Speaker 1: that we had just gone. He took out a one
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars loan from his parents, which I didn't
Speaker 1: know about, which again big privilege. Totally understand that that's
Speaker 1: a huge deal. And I mean, my family could could
Speaker 1: never do that for me, and shouldn't. No, I mean,
Speaker 1: really they were just enabling him at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, I mean clearly. But I mean by this time,
Speaker 1: I mean, he had not only just put our family
Speaker 1: in danger, but we were just you know, close to
Speaker 1: financial ruin at that point, and it was it was
Speaker 1: an everyday thing, was I was learning. So we're basically
Speaker 1: through the divorce process right now. We're waiting for the
Speaker 1: divorce decree to be signed off on. But September fourth
Speaker 1: of this year will mark a year, and I gave
Speaker 1: him the ultimatum. Actually all of us did either either
Speaker 1: leave or go get help, and he refused to go
Speaker 1: get help. So he ended up we have the condo
Speaker 1: in Florida, so he ended up taking off to go
Speaker 1: live there, and he was there for about three months.
Speaker 1: Don't really know what he was doing. I mean I
Speaker 1: can only imagine. I mean, shit, as Cox you know,
Speaker 1: not hard to get in Texas, It's sure as hell
Speaker 1: not hard to get in Florida. So he spent three
Speaker 1: months out there doing god knows what while I stayed
Speaker 1: here with our with our kid and did everything and
Speaker 1: paid for everything, and you know, all of the soccer
Speaker 1: mom things and football mom things and the lunches and
Speaker 1: me nat agting a new a new career and all
Speaker 1: of that, while he just took off and did god
Speaker 1: knows what.
Speaker 2: M hm, how old is your kid? He's thirteen thirteen, Okay,
Speaker 2: so he's not. This is not like a little kid
Speaker 2: who doesn't know what's going on. This is like a yeah,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, man, so what so dude? I mean, like,
Speaker 2: so he just goes off for three months and he
Speaker 2: has no contact with with your son.
Speaker 1: He had minimal contact with him, but but definitely nothing meaningful,
Speaker 1: and you know, just ceased to be, you know, a
Speaker 1: fixture in his everyday life like the key had known
Speaker 1: right for for all of his thirteen years. And and
Speaker 1: our son is our only, our only child, and he's
Speaker 1: incredibly bright. I've just you know, only have one. So
Speaker 1: I've just funk everything into him, for better or for worse.
Speaker 1: And I mean in some ways he handled it more
Speaker 1: maturely than I did, which was which is just incredible.
Speaker 1: But point before before his dad took off, I took
Speaker 1: him on a walk and I said, hey, I think
Speaker 1: it was definitely one of the hardest things I've ever done,
Speaker 1: if not the hardest thing I've ever had to do.
Speaker 1: And I had to tell him, Hey, like, you know,
Speaker 1: you're noticing, I don't know, you notice your dad is
Speaker 1: sleeping until this this time, and you notice that he's irritable,
Speaker 1: and you're noticing this, and and there's a reason, and that's, honey,
Speaker 1: because that's that's because you know your dad is on
Speaker 1: drugs and totally mortifying, totally, I mean, just all of
Speaker 1: the things, even though of course, I mean I know,
Speaker 1: I know now and I knew then that it's not
Speaker 1: my fault. There's nothing that I'm doing wrong, but you know,
Speaker 1: just having to admit that to your kid, and of course,
Speaker 1: I mean, his his natural first first a question was
Speaker 1: you know, what is it? And I just didn't want
Speaker 1: to tell him. And I didn't necessarily think that that
Speaker 1: was completely relevant that he needed to know. I know that,
Speaker 1: you know, if I were in his situation, I would
Speaker 1: be of course just you know, completely curious about everything.
Speaker 1: But I just, you know, I didn't I think that
Speaker 1: at that time. I just thought he needs to know
Speaker 1: the facts, and I don't you know, need to tell
Speaker 1: him that his dads are raging Koquead, this is this
Speaker 1: is not the time yet, This is not the time yet.
Speaker 1: So he he knew that things were going on, and
Speaker 1: he knew things between his dad and I were not
Speaker 1: in a good place because, you know, we were fighting,
Speaker 1: we were arguing. You know, I would love to say
Speaker 1: that we were a couple where we never fought in
Speaker 1: front of our child. Now that's just absolutely not not true.
Speaker 1: You know, it got so bad that we would bleed,
Speaker 1: you know, into just anything that we were doing, you know,
Speaker 1: because it was just this this dark cloud that hung
Speaker 1: over us for for just so long. And so he
Speaker 1: didn't know for a while what what his dad had
Speaker 1: been doing. But his dad took it upon himself to
Speaker 1: tell our son that that that that his dad was
Speaker 1: dealing with with a cocaine cocaine problem.
Speaker 2: So you told your son before your husband decided he
Speaker 2: wanted to tell him right right? And then how did
Speaker 2: what was it? What was the distance between that? Like
Speaker 2: was there a period of time where like you wanted
Speaker 2: him to just tell your son directly and he wouldn't,
Speaker 2: or like, how how did that kind of play out?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: I just I never to me, I guess it wasn't
Speaker 1: so much about what it was. I didn't feel like
Speaker 1: that that was like super relevant, you know. I didn't
Speaker 1: think he needed to know that his dad had a
Speaker 1: coke problem versus cane told problem versus whatever kind of problem.
Speaker 1: I just felt like it wasn't Oh sure.
Speaker 2: No, no, I guess I don't. I don't mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know, I don't mean like what it was. But
Speaker 2: I guess it's like, uh, telling you son that he
Speaker 2: had some kind of drug problem.
Speaker 1: Oh oh, so I mean that was I mean that
Speaker 1: I I spearheaded that if that's kind of what you're asking, Uh,
Speaker 1: he he had, Yeah. I mean, my my ex husband
Speaker 1: had had no idea that I was going to tell him.
Speaker 1: And to be honest, I'm not even quite sure if
Speaker 1: he knew when I did, because at the time he
Speaker 1: was still living here, you know, we were still holding out
Speaker 1: hope where we were still you know, somehow thinking that
Speaker 1: you know, the next intervention, he's he's gonna he's gonna
Speaker 1: do it this time. And and you know this is somebody,
Speaker 1: you know again who has all these resources at his disposal.
Speaker 1: You know, the people deal with this stuff all the time,
Speaker 1: and they don't have means to go to rehab. They
Speaker 1: don't have means to go kick off to you know,
Speaker 1: fucking Florida condo or whatever bullshit.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: So you know, I guess just in my my heart
Speaker 1: of hearts is just hoping, you know, eventually he was
Speaker 1: going to say yes, I don't really My only goal
Speaker 1: I think was telling our son was just somehow, you know,
Speaker 1: giving him some idea that like, what you're seeing, you know,
Speaker 1: isn't normal and it's a result of something like this,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a result of drugs. And again, my
Speaker 1: our son is very mature, and and you know, other
Speaker 1: than him saying like what is it, his next his
Speaker 1: next response which it still always blows me away in
Speaker 1: saying like, well, you know, he must be really struggling
Speaker 1: a lot if he feels like he has to do that.
Speaker 1: She's like who, Like, holy shit, I'm like she gets it.
Speaker 1: And so I definitely feel like telling him was was
Speaker 1: the right was the right thing to do. But I
Speaker 1: also had a feeling like, you know, some shit's about
Speaker 1: to go down, and I don't want to completely just
Speaker 1: blindside our child and make him, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: want to give him this false sense that things are great,
Speaker 1: and you know, he's hearing this arguing and he's seeing
Speaker 1: his dad sleep and not work and all this stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the writing was on the wall
Speaker 1: for sure, but I definitely think that it was it
Speaker 1: was the right thing to do to, you know, give
Speaker 1: him a heads up in hopes of giving him some clarity. Right,
Speaker 1: so he knew he knew about it. And again this
Speaker 1: is like from a period of like from May to
Speaker 1: September of last year. So I finally tell him after
Speaker 1: finding those you know, seventy eighty bags of coke or whatever,
Speaker 1: and going back and forth with his parents just begging
Speaker 1: him to go get help, and you know, still staying
Speaker 1: all the fine, nothing has changed, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: knew it was bad when the only time that we
Speaker 1: could get along was when he was high. I mean,
Speaker 1: the only time I would ever want to approach him
Speaker 1: about anything or ask him to do something was when
Speaker 1: he was high, because that was the only time that
Speaker 1: you know, he was kind, that he was agreeable, that
Speaker 1: he would listen, you know. So it was this this
Speaker 1: really you know, sick cycle of you know, but of
Speaker 1: just but then also just noticing he's just going further
Speaker 1: and further off the defence. It's it's just it's getting
Speaker 1: worse and worse. And so one day he would have
Speaker 1: always fall asleep. Obviously he would sleep to like eleven
Speaker 1: and twelve all that kind of stuff, which again no
Speaker 1: judgment that, you know, we got a kid in a
Speaker 1: house and all that kind of crap, you know, And
Speaker 1: he fell asleep with his phone open. And I'm not
Speaker 1: a woman that's going to go through somebody's phone. I
Speaker 1: don't we do on each other's passwords. I just I
Speaker 1: don't think that's any way to live. But I knew
Speaker 1: the app that he had been messaging with his dealer
Speaker 1: on and just being a dumb ass, you know, leaves
Speaker 1: it on his Homeskoe Green doesn't leave it password protected,
Speaker 1: which for some reason, I don't know why that bugged me.
Speaker 1: I guess it was just because it was like so flippant.
Speaker 1: It was just all like I don't care, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not even try to it was you from any
Speaker 1: of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I could see why I would piss you off.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm hmm, Like come on, man, like you know,
Speaker 1: to do something, try to hide something. So for some
Speaker 1: reason my friends laugh about that, but that was for
Speaker 1: some reason, that was really a really sore.
Speaker 3: Spot for me.
Speaker 1: But I finally, I finally get in there, and I
Speaker 1: see the messages to and from his dealer, and it's wile,
Speaker 1: it's every single day, It's every day, it's every night,
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm an aw comedian convenience store, grab
Speaker 1: you know, a pack of cigarettes, or I'm gonna whatever,
Speaker 1: run the store or whatever it was. It was. It
Speaker 1: was because he was meeting his dealer, and it had
Speaker 1: it had ramped up, but it was it wasn't even
Speaker 1: further than that. I found out that he was having
Speaker 1: drugs drug off when we were at home, and you know,
Speaker 1: the guy would roll through the alley, put it in
Speaker 1: the trash, can't put it in the mailbox, hide it wherever.
Speaker 1: And I mean, this is again when me and our
Speaker 1: you know, our twelve year old son are you know,
Speaker 1: at home doing homework, you know, just picked him up
Speaker 1: from school or you know whatever, you know, normal type
Speaker 1: of thing we're trying to do, and you know, we've
Speaker 1: got some drug dealer rolling by the house and dropping
Speaker 1: off drugs while we're there. So of course, of course
Speaker 1: that was super concerning but then I think also the
Speaker 1: final the straw that broke the camel's back for me
Speaker 1: because I didn't just find that, I found out that
Speaker 1: he had been arranging the half prostitutes to our home.
Speaker 1: So I mean, just completely in total violation of this
Speaker 1: you know, sacred space that I thought that we had,
Speaker 1: despite you know, this glary.
Speaker 3: You.
Speaker 1: And that was it for me. I thought, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't be married to somebody who I'm
Speaker 1: just never going to let touch me again because that's
Speaker 1: just never going to happen. And that's it, like this
Speaker 1: has to be it, you know. And that was again
Speaker 1: when I went to his parents, I said that, and
Speaker 1: I didn't to this day, as far as I know,
Speaker 1: they don't know either of those things. I didn't. I
Speaker 1: just didn't think it was relevant. Didn't even want to
Speaker 1: go down down that road. Was embarrassed enough that I
Speaker 1: had to come out and tell them that their child
Speaker 1: was a coke addict. Was not going to be the
Speaker 1: one that's like, oh hey, and guess what, you know
Speaker 1: he likes hookers too, you know, Like it was just
Speaker 1: it was just something that I thought, you know, like
Speaker 1: this is it. I needed. I needed a you know,
Speaker 1: the final nail in the coffin, I guess, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of what this is. So I called them up
Speaker 1: and I just said that was it, and I can't
Speaker 1: do this anymore, and you're a kid. It's got to
Speaker 1: go get help or I'm leaving. I said, straight up,
Speaker 1: I'm going to leave. I'm going to pack up the car,
Speaker 1: I'm going to pack up our dog, uproot our kids life,
Speaker 1: and we're going to go to the condo in Florida.
Speaker 1: So that that was my goal. I obviously had not
Speaker 1: thought things through very well, but I wasn't fishing clearly
Speaker 1: through a lot of this stuff. I was just kind of,
Speaker 1: you know, like it was like triage, you know. I
Speaker 1: just was trying to clean up whatever disaster or mess
Speaker 1: that I could. And the best way that I could
Speaker 1: with with no was you know, there's no guide out there,
Speaker 1: at least that I'm aware of. And I just said
Speaker 1: that that's it. And you know, they told me, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, why the hell do you need to leave?
Speaker 1: You know, like, your son's in school, you know, you have,
Speaker 1: you know, a life here. You know, why the hell
Speaker 1: are you the one leaving? You know, she needs to leave.
Speaker 1: I was like Okay, well, yeah that makes sense. I
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, okay, well let's you know, let's do that.
Speaker 1: So we gave him one final kind of push, and
Speaker 1: he just refused to go get help and decided he
Speaker 1: was just going to go take off to Florida. I mean,
Speaker 1: he had a place, you know, he it was all
Speaker 1: set up, you know, and so he took the out.
Speaker 2: He took the out, and and so he just goes
Speaker 2: down to Florida for three months and then what happens
Speaker 2: when he comes back.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was a total shit show.
Speaker 3: It was awful.
Speaker 1: It was absolutely awful here I am, so I decided
Speaker 1: to go into teaching. I'm an art teacher. For that
Speaker 1: first year though, I was just kind of all over
Speaker 1: the place, teaching different you know, grains and different subjects
Speaker 1: and just really trying to figure out, like what the
Speaker 1: hell I wanted to do with my life because I
Speaker 1: knew that this this wasn't gonna work. So I filed
Speaker 1: for divorce, and he filed stuff with his attorney saying,
Speaker 1: I want to take our son to Florida. I'm going
Speaker 1: to move him to Florida. He's going to live here
Speaker 1: full time. I'm going to go to school here. We
Speaker 1: have no family there. My parents had had a little
Speaker 1: beach house there for a little bit, which is why
Speaker 1: I got the condo. They sold it. We have no
Speaker 1: family there, there's no reason for us to be there.
Speaker 1: And I mean that's not that like the schools are
Speaker 1: great in Texas, but they're definitely not good in Florida.
Speaker 1: And so his goal was to just take our kid
Speaker 1: and kind of just go and live the life he
Speaker 1: wanted to live with again, of course, not having gotten
Speaker 1: any help, not when you know, suck, any treatment or
Speaker 1: anything like that. So I file in October, and he
Speaker 1: goes back and forth with his attorney in mind trying
Speaker 1: to get all of this craft that he wants, thinking
Speaker 1: somehow that he is going to be able to take
Speaker 1: our son before and I guess somebody somewhere, you know,
Speaker 1: knock some sense into him and said like, hey, dude,
Speaker 1: like you know that, like you're not going to be
Speaker 1: able to have like take y'all's kid and move him
Speaker 1: to Florida. You know, like you had a drug problem.
Speaker 1: And outside of that, they don't do that. They don't
Speaker 1: they don't let they don't let one parents, you know,
Speaker 1: take their child across the country. And just keep them there,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, he thought, well, our son's
Speaker 1: old enough, you know, he he's allowed to choose where
Speaker 1: he wants to be. And unfortunately, and it was really heartbreaking,
Speaker 1: but my son really wanted to.
Speaker 3: Be with his dad.
Speaker 1: He wanted to go live in Florida, which I also
Speaker 1: can't blame him. I mean, it's you know, it's like
Speaker 1: you're on you know, you're on vacation. All he knows
Speaker 1: is being being there and being on vacation, right. He
Speaker 1: doesn't know what it's like to live there. So it
Speaker 1: was it was heartbreaking to be the parent doing everything
Speaker 1: day and day out, and you know, having a child
Speaker 1: who you know wants to go live with his dad,
Speaker 1: you know, arguing with me and saying you knew what
Speaker 1: was in my best interest, which you know was interesting
Speaker 1: that you know he phrased it that way. But you know,
Speaker 1: if you knew, if you really knew it was in
Speaker 1: my best interest, then you would let me go live
Speaker 1: with dad. And so that that was also just totally
Speaker 1: heartbreaking to have to have to go through too. Is
Speaker 1: you know, feeling like the bad guy. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: sure my son is thinking I'm trying to keep him
Speaker 1: from his dad. Obviously that's not the case, but you know,
Speaker 1: hell yeah, I'm absolutely not going to let him go
Speaker 1: live in Florida with his dad full time by himself
Speaker 1: when you have no idea what's going on at all.
Speaker 2: Of course, of course, so that.
Speaker 1: That was a major uphill battle. But the probably the
Speaker 1: hardest part for me throughout all of this is I
Speaker 1: had my in laws to really, you know, my to
Speaker 1: lean on. You know, I was very open and honest
Speaker 1: about once things went down and what I found and
Speaker 1: what their son was doing. You know, we became very close,
Speaker 1: and you know, they were a great support system for me.
Speaker 1: My parents didn't didn't live here, I don't really have
Speaker 1: any family in Texas, so you know, having their support,
Speaker 1: especially during that time, was just incredibly helpful. But somehow,
Speaker 1: some way, I don't I don't know what the moment
Speaker 1: was or what the thing what was said, but they
Speaker 1: just completely turned on me and went to supporting their
Speaker 1: son wholeheartedly, telling me he doesn't have a problem, he's fine. Now.
Speaker 1: My mother in law called me and she's like, you, no,
Speaker 1: you don't understand. He's fine now, he's fine, And I
Speaker 1: had to be like, look, listen, listen, listen, listen. I
Speaker 1: want that I hope that I pray for that. I
Speaker 1: hope that he never does it again. You know, in
Speaker 1: my heart of hearts that the day he left was
Speaker 1: the last day. But like, let's be let's be pragmatic here,
Speaker 1: let's you know, and kind of like look at the
Speaker 1: facts and kind of like look at statistics, lady, and like,
Speaker 1: you know, figure out some things here, you know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's highly unlikely that he's clean and sober, and regardless
Speaker 1: of that, like, why the hell do you think it
Speaker 1: would be okay for him to uproot our child's life,
Speaker 1: take him out of mine, and go move him to
Speaker 1: fucking floga, you know? And they could. They really never
Speaker 1: had any response to that. They completely stop talking to me,
Speaker 1: have nothing to do with me. He told him that
Speaker 1: I had at several points quote manic episodes, which just
Speaker 1: makes me laugh because I'm like, anytime I tell people that,
Speaker 1: they're like, well, yeah, I would have after all the
Speaker 1: shit that you dealt with. But also I'm like, dude,
Speaker 1: are you really do you you go to a fucking
Speaker 1: therapist who thinks weed is just as bad as coke?
Speaker 3: Like, are you really.
Speaker 1: Qualified to make that assessment right now, like what a
Speaker 1: manic episode is? Dude? Do you really know? So I
Speaker 1: don't really know exactly the narrative that he's fun to
Speaker 1: his parents to make them just like completely hate me
Speaker 1: over like a matter of like a few weeks. But
Speaker 1: so they just they rallied behind him. And obviously he
Speaker 1: comes from generational wealth clearly, you know, and his dad's
Speaker 1: an attorney, so they just sunk all of their resources
Speaker 1: and their time and their effort into, you know, his
Speaker 1: legal case against me and doing whatever they could to
Speaker 1: make him seem like, you know, this superstar dad, you know.
Speaker 1: And and you know, he was gone like in Florida
Speaker 1: for those whole three months and just had basically nothing
Speaker 1: nothing to do with him. I mean, he didn't send
Speaker 1: a dime. And here I was somebody who we had
Speaker 1: a company together, and right as his addiction just progressed,
Speaker 1: you know, I backed myself away from that and realized, okay,
Speaker 1: I need to okay, now I need to get like
Speaker 1: a job on my own.
Speaker 2: You guys had you guys had a business together.
Speaker 1: We had we had a few businesses together.
Speaker 2: Oh really okay, but so and was that your guys'
Speaker 2: full time thing? Together or did you each have your
Speaker 2: own kind of independent jobs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that was our that was our our thing together.
Speaker 1: That was our thing together.
Speaker 2: And how I mean so this, I mean, Jesus Christ,
Speaker 2: that's a whole other, entirely crazy element to this. I mean,
Speaker 2: how were the businesses doing while he was kind of
Speaker 2: strung out?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Terrible, terrible. I mean he he ran them all into
Speaker 1: the ground. I mean, we had one that was incredibly successful,
Speaker 1: and I mean obviously I'm not trying to doc myself,
Speaker 1: but I mean it was it was quite successful. I
Speaker 1: mean it had garnered like you know, attention and like
Speaker 1: national media and and all kinds of stuff. I mean,
Speaker 1: it was incredibly successful. And and also furthermore, it was
Speaker 1: it was it was a product that a lot of
Speaker 1: people relied on and it really actually like helped them
Speaker 1: be able to manage their lives better. And yeah, and
Speaker 1: so I could obviously sense that he wasn't doing what
Speaker 1: he was supposed to be doing and in his job.
Speaker 1: That was clear. Obviously I worked with him. I could tell.
Speaker 1: I could just tell from the fact that I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, he would just be in home all day
Speaker 1: and literally wouldn't do anything. He would do any work.
Speaker 1: He would hardly move from this chair. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: it was bad, bad, But when I started to when
Speaker 1: I started noticing that with the with the companies and stuff,
Speaker 1: that's when I was like, Okay, that probably he's going
Speaker 1: to sink this ship on his own. There's only so
Speaker 1: much I can do to help, So maybe I need
Speaker 1: to like turn my effort, focus my efforts somewhere else
Speaker 1: to you know, come onto solid footing on my own
Speaker 1: without without any ties to him.
Speaker 2: Basically, So you you weren't even like, Okay, let me
Speaker 2: try to kind of salvage my own kind of make
Speaker 2: my own fight for this business that I'm a part of.
Speaker 2: You were like, you know what, I don't even want
Speaker 2: to put up that fight. I just want to get
Speaker 2: out of here exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was like I had always I had always
Speaker 1: worried that if we ever had gotten divorce, our lives
Speaker 1: were so intertwined that it was going to be just
Speaker 1: so freaking difficult to untangle, and just even from the
Speaker 1: from a professional standpoint. So I kind of at that
Speaker 1: point I was waning. I mean, I STOs felt like,
Speaker 1: you know, I follow the writing on the wall. I
Speaker 1: saw that like where he was going what he was doing,
Speaker 1: he had, He had no motivation whatsoever to to to
Speaker 1: do better, to be better, to you know, focus on
Speaker 1: these businesses, pull them up whatever, or even just sustain
Speaker 1: where they were. So I thought, you know, I really honestly,
Speaker 1: any anytime I spend with him is not going to
Speaker 1: be productive. So like, let's move on. Let's figure out
Speaker 1: what I want to do so I can be stable,
Speaker 1: and I don't need to I don't need to have
Speaker 1: anything that's tied to him, you know, I need to
Speaker 1: be self sufficient. So I really had just no freaking
Speaker 1: idea what I was going to do. I went to college,
Speaker 1: I have my degree, I have a paralegal certificate. I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll go work at a law firm. Tried that. Have
Speaker 1: lots of friends that are attorneys. None of them, not
Speaker 1: one could find me job, not a one. And I've
Speaker 1: always done art on the side. So that's when I thought, okay, well,
Speaker 1: let me let me thinking about going into teaching.
Speaker 2: M did you, like, were you able to keep any
Speaker 2: savings from the divorce so that you weren't at least like,
Speaker 2: you know, against the wall.
Speaker 1: Yes, it was, it was not a lot. It was
Speaker 1: not a lot. There were some and I really tried
Speaker 1: not to ever touch any of the emergency phons that
Speaker 1: I had squirreled away over that time. That was kind
Speaker 1: of my goal, even though it was definitely in an
Speaker 1: emergency type situation. I just in my head, I'm always wondering, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, there could be some thing down the
Speaker 1: line that's way worse than that, or it's even worse
Speaker 1: than that. So I ended up substitute teaching for and
Speaker 1: I don't know how much. I don't know if people
Speaker 1: really know how little substitute teachers make, but it's anywhere
Speaker 1: between one hundred and ten, one hundred and twenty or
Speaker 1: thirty dollars a day. So I mean, just just so
Speaker 1: so small. And I thought to myself, Okay, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I can't get a job in a law firm. No
Speaker 1: one wants to hire me. I love kids, I love teaching,
Speaker 1: so you know, I'm gonna just suffer through it, you know,
Speaker 1: my one hundred and ten hundred and twenty dollars a day,
Speaker 1: and you know, just see if I can, if I
Speaker 1: can get by, you know. And there were some definitely
Speaker 1: lean times, and I think about it now, I think
Speaker 1: about you know, the amount that was in my bank
Speaker 1: account and just totally shit, I don't know how I
Speaker 1: did that, and you know, I just it's just even
Speaker 1: came back on it, I'm like, I can't believe that
Speaker 1: was my life. But so yeah, I put my focus on,
Speaker 1: you know, finding something for me and you know, making
Speaker 1: you know, my own money. And you you hear about
Speaker 1: this too from women that have been you know, married
Speaker 1: for a long time or that have been divorced after
Speaker 1: being stay at home moms for for you know, decades.
Speaker 1: You know, they say, you know, don't you know, don't
Speaker 1: give up your own career and always have your own money,
Speaker 1: and and you know, it's it's it's solid advice. It's
Speaker 1: very smart advice. I thought I was. I was in
Speaker 1: that camp though, as somebody who had been working, and
Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't just sitting at home eating bomb bonds,
Speaker 1: and you know, I was obviously an active parent, but
Speaker 1: I was an active you know, financial participant and you know,
Speaker 1: our life.
Speaker 2: So how are you doing now? This has been I
Speaker 2: guess it's been about a little over a year since
Speaker 2: almost the year almost the year, so I mean, how
Speaker 2: are you doing now? What's going on with you today.
Speaker 1: So I see I'm seeing the light at the end
Speaker 1: of the tunnel. Now. I think a lot of the
Speaker 1: hard part of the divorce is behind me, unfortunately, because
Speaker 1: you know, my my ex does come from a family
Speaker 1: that knows what they're doing with money and knows how
Speaker 1: to protect money. I got. I kind of got screwed
Speaker 1: in the divorce. I really didn't get very much as
Speaker 1: anything at all, which is funny to me because people,
Speaker 1: you know, oh, you know, you get child support and
Speaker 1: you get self with support, and you every you know,
Speaker 1: half of everything is yours. No, it's not. That is
Speaker 1: not true. If things are set up in a certain
Speaker 1: way and people know what they're doing, No, it's you don't.
Speaker 1: You don't get half. So, you know, I was at
Speaker 1: least hoping that, you know, I would maybe get half
Speaker 1: of our house, you know, half of our assets. You know.
Speaker 1: He took a lot of things, sold them, hid them,
Speaker 1: so I didn't and I never really had a good
Speaker 1: financial like a clear financial picture of our assets because
Speaker 1: he was really good about about hiding that stuff for me.
Speaker 1: So where I'm at now, I will I have to
Speaker 1: be out of our house by the end of the year.
Speaker 1: So that's That's probably the biggest stressor on me right
Speaker 1: now is just kind of like every moment, I feel
Speaker 1: like that there's this this thing hanging over my head
Speaker 1: because I know that, like I'm going to be moving
Speaker 1: and I've been in this house for seven years, and
Speaker 1: you know, this is the house that you know, my
Speaker 1: kid has been in the first grade, and you know,
Speaker 1: he's in eighth grade, so he's going to be going
Speaker 1: into high school. So I had all of these, you know,
Speaker 1: just these pictures and and and stuff of you know,
Speaker 1: of him coming home and you know, high school and
Speaker 1: graduating and all of that stuff and being here in
Speaker 1: the scheme the home base. So obviously that's that's out
Speaker 1: the window. So that's that's the most difficult thing to
Speaker 1: grapple with right now. Definitely the financial aspect of things
Speaker 1: has been really difficult. But I I have a job.
Speaker 1: I have teaching art, which is which was what I
Speaker 1: wanted to be teaching. I'm almost a certified teacher. I
Speaker 1: had to jump through a lot of hoops for that too,
Speaker 1: and and doing all of the coursework and all of
Speaker 1: the exams for that while I'm going through all of
Speaker 1: this has been just immensely difficult. But I'm in the
Speaker 1: better place. But I'm also in a place where there's
Speaker 1: a lot of unknown for sure, and so that's that's
Speaker 1: probably the scariest part for me. But I do I
Speaker 1: try to remind myself that hopefully, more than likely probably
Speaker 1: the worst is behind me. And you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna I'm not going to be in this beautiful house anymore,
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to be living this idyllic life
Speaker 1: and and all of that anymore. But I definitely have
Speaker 1: a lot more peace in my life. That's that's for sure.
Speaker 1: That's for sure.
Speaker 2: So where is your son now? Does he live with you?
Speaker 2: Does he live with his dad? Is he kind of
Speaker 2: in between?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, a lot of people too, I guess
Speaker 1: you know, there was that's a lot of assumptions made here.
Speaker 1: They thought, you know, drug addict parent, You know clearly
Speaker 1: that parent's not going to get custody and this, that
Speaker 1: and the other. I mean, no, it's not what happened.
Speaker 1: We is fifty to fifty is fifty to fifty. I
Speaker 1: had evidence out the wazoo of everything. I was really
Speaker 1: smart about keeping everything and timelines and photos and just
Speaker 1: everything you can imagine. I mean, it wasn't It wasn't dispute.
Speaker 1: There's just no way you could dispute that he had problems,
Speaker 1: and he didn't deny it. But when it came down
Speaker 1: to it, it just it didn't really matter. They're like
Speaker 1: fifty to fifty. You know, you get him fifty percent
Speaker 1: of the time, you get him fifty percent of the time.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I guess in a sense that was
Speaker 1: a win from where we started from, which is where
Speaker 1: he just wanted to take him, you know, the whole time,
Speaker 1: and then just move them to Florida and just never
Speaker 1: see me again. But you know, I still held out
Speaker 1: some hope that you know, like, well, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: somebody somewhere would see, hey, like this dude had a
Speaker 1: raging coke problem for four years, you know, maybe he
Speaker 1: should go get help. And and my only confession was
Speaker 1: I said, I'm fine with fifty to fifty. If you
Speaker 1: go get help, I will I do not. I have
Speaker 1: no problem. I'm not going to fight you. We will
Speaker 1: do fifty to fifty. I'm not going to be petty.
Speaker 1: Just go get help, just go to treatment.
Speaker 2: Did he didn't? He didn't do it?
Speaker 1: Nope?
Speaker 2: So how I mean, so, how was the how long
Speaker 2: have you guys been fifty to fifty four, like a year.
Speaker 1: Probably since the beginning of this year. So yeah, I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2: How's that? How's that been? Like? What's the schedule?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 2: Like he's with you for a week, he's down in
Speaker 2: Florida for a week.
Speaker 1: So he ended up moving back to Texas. So he's
Speaker 1: here now. But yeah, we do one week on and
Speaker 1: one week off, and that seems that seems to that
Speaker 1: seems to be to be good for us.
Speaker 2: Oh so your your ex, your ex husband is back
Speaker 2: in Texas. He is Okay, cool, Okay, that's I mean,
Speaker 2: that makes life. That makes life three hundred times easier,
Speaker 2: you know. Yes, I mean my my parents were divorced
Speaker 2: when I was growing up, and the nice thing it
Speaker 2: was nice that my had only lived like my dad
Speaker 2: lived like a fifteen to twenty minute drive from my mom,
Speaker 2: you know, so like we saw I know, I feel
Speaker 2: like I got to see both of them, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean I mainly lived with my mom. That was
Speaker 2: kind of like like that place was the place I
Speaker 2: had was home. But you know, both my parents were
Speaker 2: really in my life. I can't imagine what that would
Speaker 2: have been like if my dad lived in like, you know,
Speaker 2: a different state or something. It'd be tough, yeah.
Speaker 1: Which I doubt was so my when my parents divorced,
Speaker 1: same as you, they they lived very very close, probably
Speaker 1: even less than you know, ten minutes away from each other.
Speaker 1: And then my my dad did end up moving out
Speaker 1: of state when I turned twelve, so that that was
Speaker 1: a huge adjustment for me. That I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: think I ever really recovered from you know, So yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean right, having having him close by made things
Speaker 1: immensely easier. And didn't know that he actually ended up
Speaker 1: moving here because that was that was hidden from me.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so he's here now and we're about ten
Speaker 1: minutes away from each other, which is great for our kid,
Speaker 1: and it is very convenient for for us. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think I think we're we're managing okay.
Speaker 1: I think our son has adjusted to the schedule. He
Speaker 1: doesn't sit there and say go when she goes, let
Speaker 1: mean what my dude, dud and and that's that's also
Speaker 1: very helpful for me, and and that was really hard
Speaker 1: for me to deal with for months on end. So
Speaker 1: I think that we're in we're in a more stable place.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're we're able to communicate, We're able to
Speaker 1: get along, and I mean we're actually probably in a
Speaker 1: much better spot than I ever thought we would be,
Speaker 1: you know, this far into things. But like if you
Speaker 1: asked me if I still thought if he was using,
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, absolutely. In fact, when we had
Speaker 1: our mediation and stuff, that was one thing that he
Speaker 1: really did not want to have. He did not want
Speaker 1: us to be able to randomly drug test each other.
Speaker 1: And you know, my dad said, well that that there
Speaker 1: you go. I mean, that should tell you everything that
Speaker 1: you need to know. If you had any doubt about
Speaker 1: his sobriety, you shouldn't anymore if he's just completely unwilling
Speaker 1: to take any kind of drug test.
Speaker 2: So are you planning on trying to like date again
Speaker 2: at all?
Speaker 1: Yes, I am. I've went on a few gates. The
Speaker 1: one person I really liked ended up moving away to Colorado,
Speaker 1: So there's there's that. But you know, I met my
Speaker 1: husband before dating absot like a thing.
Speaker 3: So so.
Speaker 1: Just navigating that whole world is just just totally foreign
Speaker 1: to me. You know, having good dates and thinking that
Speaker 1: they went well and somebody saying, oh that it's a
Speaker 1: great time. I'm going to hang out again, and then
Speaker 1: you never talk to somebody again.
Speaker 2: That's that's true.
Speaker 1: It is, yeah, now now now I'm learning. But yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's been exciting. And you know, I was really miserable
Speaker 1: for four years, so and you know our marriage was
Speaker 1: done way before I filed for divorce. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: just that's just how it is. And you know, I
Speaker 1: don't want to be miserable forever. I alsouly just like people,
Speaker 1: I just enjoy the process of you know, meeting somebody new,
Speaker 1: learning about somebody, seeing things from a different point of view.
Speaker 1: You know, I've definitely had some you know, moments of
Speaker 1: commiseration with other war people, which for better for worse.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't love going on a date
Speaker 1: and then the whole date is just us talking about
Speaker 1: our divorces, right, So that's that's that's that's been interesting
Speaker 1: for sure. But yeah, no, I mean I want to
Speaker 1: be happy. I know I'll be happy again. I have
Speaker 1: no idea if I'll ever get married again, because you know,
Speaker 1: like how we started this call is is you know,
Speaker 1: you can do everything right and and things just just
Speaker 1: still just just not work out. But yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I still I still believe in love. I'm sure that
Speaker 1: there's somebody out there somewhere, and you know, I am
Speaker 1: lucky in the sense that, you know, I am still
Speaker 1: seemingly you know, young, So you know how had I
Speaker 1: waited another ten years, this would have been a lot
Speaker 1: more difficult, you know. So I'm I'm, I'm definitely it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a moment in time where it's a lot
Speaker 1: there's a lot of uncertainty there. It's just there's so
Speaker 1: much uncertainty. But there was a lot of uncertainty when
Speaker 1: I was married and I was going through all of
Speaker 1: the things I was going through with him, you know,
Speaker 1: so that's just kind of what I have to you know,
Speaker 1: remind myself. But you know this this time also too,
Speaker 1: isn't isn't you know about me? You know, I'm not
Speaker 1: nothing is ever going to you know, supersede anything that
Speaker 1: needs to be done for my son or anything that
Speaker 1: he has going on. But I do think, you know,
Speaker 1: it is important for him, you know, to see his
Speaker 1: parent right happy, but also knowing that, like you know,
Speaker 1: your mom can have a life outside of her family.
Speaker 1: So absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: This was Uh, I felt like I've been listening to
Speaker 2: my own podcast for the Fast fifty Minutes. I really,
Speaker 2: I sincerely, I really, I really appreciate you telling your
Speaker 2: story and going in depth on it because I think
Speaker 2: I'm sure that there will be people who resonate with it.
Speaker 2: And it sounded like it was very, very difficult, and
Speaker 2: you're still kind of like, you know, optimistic of being
Speaker 2: able to put together the pieces and move forward after
Speaker 2: you know, the disillusion of something that's been kind of
Speaker 2: your like day to day life over the last thirteen years.
Speaker 2: It's tough. I mean, it's emblematic of like life just
Speaker 2: fucking throws things that you and disruptions and as you said,
Speaker 2: as you said, and it's a very interesting thing that
Speaker 2: you said that you could do everything right, you could
Speaker 2: be patient, you could be It's not like you met
Speaker 2: this guy at a gas station and you got married
Speaker 2: that night. And it's not like it was like, oh
Speaker 2: it was it was not like the writing was on
Speaker 2: the wall when you guys met. You know, it's like,
Speaker 2: you did everything right, as you said, and things still
Speaker 2: don't work out. And dude, that's just fucking that's just life.
Speaker 2: You know, life, It's just fucking life. And I think
Speaker 2: it's uh something to like just learn, I guess, just
Speaker 2: learn how to how to take and move on from
Speaker 2: the best that you can.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So I appreciate you sharing this story with
Speaker 2: us Cocoa right.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, no, And I really appreciate the time. I again,
Speaker 1: I've been listening to you for a long time. We've
Speaker 1: met actually, and I told you you pulled me out
Speaker 1: of COVID because I was listening to you back in
Speaker 1: the day on on Reddit. You know, in my you know,
Speaker 1: three hour long path that I would take because there
Speaker 1: wasn't shit else to do. And you know this, I
Speaker 1: mean really I was kind of going I was going
Speaker 1: through this whole process, you know. Then you know, so
Speaker 1: you've you've really seen me through a dark time in
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 2: While when did we were we met in person in
Speaker 2: or in Orlando, or we.
Speaker 1: Did and with my ex Actually.
Speaker 2: Whoa crazy shit. You know, it's funny. It is funny.
Speaker 2: I'm like, uh, I don't like the idea of I'm like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: I probably met these two people and I took a
Speaker 2: picture with them and they walked away, and the whole
Speaker 2: I had no idea like of all their there had
Speaker 2: was so much lore between them that would happen. It's
Speaker 2: like I only had like a little screen shot of
Speaker 2: like that moment where I'm like, oh, this is a
Speaker 2: couple and they're together and that's amazing, it's great, But
Speaker 2: I only had It's the and you know whatever, you
Speaker 2: walk around life like that, you just have little screenshots
Speaker 2: of what appears to be and you have no fucking
Speaker 2: idea about fucking and it's really wild. It's really the
Speaker 2: the more I do this show and the more I
Speaker 2: just live my life in general, probably more related to
Speaker 2: just living my life in general, the more agnostic I
Speaker 2: become about just absolutely everything about ideas I have of people,
Speaker 2: or about life, or about what I see in the world.
Speaker 2: I just become more and more agnostic as I as
Speaker 2: I'm truly understanding how little I can actually gleam from
Speaker 2: the screenshots of everything that I see, you know, day
Speaker 2: to day and through life. It's interesting to think about.
Speaker 2: But you take it all in and you just, I guess,
Speaker 2: keep moving forward in however positive a way you can.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just, yeah, keep moving. I definitely have those
Speaker 1: times where I'm just like your Lord, you know, like
Speaker 1: I just want to call onto to a hole and die.
Speaker 1: But now I think one of I definitely think I'm,
Speaker 1: you know, toxicly optimistic. I don't know if that's the right.
Speaker 2: Term, but I don't think you I don't think that
Speaker 2: it's toxic to be optimistic. Okay, good, Well listen, Coco.
Speaker 2: Is there is there anything else that you know, I
Speaker 2: know we talked for a while. Is but is there
Speaker 2: any other kind of like aspect of this or like
Speaker 2: anything at all that you UH want to want to
Speaker 2: cover before we go?
Speaker 1: No, I just want to say thank you. I want
Speaker 1: to say, if anybody out there is struggling, you know,
Speaker 1: and you have a support system and you have means
Speaker 1: to go get help, do it, do it. There is
Speaker 1: there is something so much better on the other side
Speaker 1: that you just you can't even imagine, but you'll you'll
Speaker 1: never know. You'll never know if you don't if you
Speaker 1: don't make that leap and you don't try and attempt
Speaker 1: to be the best version of yourself.
Speaker 2: Uh, Coco, thank you very very very much for UH
Speaker 2: sharing the story with us and the end the rest
Speaker 2: of the UH and the listeners. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much. Get gek bless you, Mike, Oco,
Speaker 1: Thanks By.
Speaker 2: That was really fascinating. That was a really interesting call,
Speaker 2: and that woman was really, really, really smart. She she like,
Speaker 2: I loved the way that she told her story. I
Speaker 2: was thinking that while she was talking. I liked the
Speaker 2: way she told her story. She was very had a
Speaker 2: nice grasp on the situation, and you know, she really
Speaker 2: took us through the I appreciate she that was she
Speaker 2: was very generous with how in depth she took us
Speaker 2: through all the different aspects of that story, both kind
Speaker 2: of like logistically and emotionally. So I appreciate I appreciated that.
Speaker 2: And uh yeah, the idea that you can kind of
Speaker 2: do everything right and things will still go wrong, it's interesting,
Speaker 2: right because she correct. She's correct about that with all endeavors, right,
Speaker 2: And that's something you have to, I think, come to
Speaker 2: terms with in life, whether it's a relationship or a
Speaker 2: business or a moving, a play or whatever whatever life
Speaker 2: thing is. The thing is, it's true you could do
Speaker 2: everything right and things will still not fucking work. And
Speaker 2: I think accepting that and deciding that it's still I
Speaker 2: guess worth it. I don't know, I might be taking
Speaker 2: the wrong thing away from this cautionary tale, as she
Speaker 2: called it, but the idea that yes, you might do
Speaker 2: everything correct and it still won't work out, But I
Speaker 2: guess you should just do it anyway. That's what I think.
Speaker 2: Just do it anyway. Why not? You know, what are you?
Speaker 2: I mean? Because well, what other option do you have?
Speaker 2: It's like, like I was talking to someone about this recently,
Speaker 2: like stow Is, I used to be really into stoicism,
Speaker 2: and then I realized stoicism is kind of just this
Speaker 2: ultimate act of avoidance, and it's this ultimate attempt of
Speaker 2: like fully just diminishing, like let me, let me diminish,
Speaker 2: not do anything that might hurt my feelings. That's not
Speaker 2: really what I think stoicism is, But I think there's
Speaker 2: something about like surrendering to the true helplessness that you
Speaker 2: have as a person, to the events that happen to
Speaker 2: you in your life, and realizing that, yeah, you could
Speaker 2: do everything right and it's still could fuck up, but
Speaker 2: we should still do things. We should still try to
Speaker 2: find love and try to make stuff and try to
Speaker 2: do things even if they might not work, or they
Speaker 2: might might. They might not only not work, they might
Speaker 2: fuck us up. They might kill us or leave us
Speaker 2: homeless or give us some cancer. I don't know, I'm
Speaker 2: I'm but we should still do What else are you
Speaker 2: gonna do? You do nothing, you do do not, you
Speaker 2: gotta do? You know, do something, fall in love, take chances.
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. Thank you, Coco for sharing your story. I
Speaker 2: appreciate it. Hello, Yo, Hello, how's it going.
Speaker 3: It's going good. How are you.
Speaker 2: I'm hanging out. I think I smell like shit, but
Speaker 2: that's fine. I haven't showered yet today because I know
Speaker 2: I was going to put on this paint and so
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm not gonna shower, just to shower
Speaker 2: again anyway. That's I know. You found that very interesting.
Speaker 2: What did you say? Your name was that? He just
Speaker 2: said it? All right, Kalem, Kalem, what's up, Kalum? Would
Speaker 2: you want to talk about today?
Speaker 3: I wanted to talk about how you can have any
Speaker 3: job in the world that you want. Yeah. I used
Speaker 3: to work as a construction worker doing remodels and like
Speaker 3: stinky basements and stuff like that, and I really hated it.
Speaker 3: So I just started applying at state parks and it worked,
Speaker 3: and I'm currently in a state park right now, sitting
Speaker 3: by a waterfall, counting how many people cross a bridge?
Speaker 2: Do you have to do anything? Or you just kind
Speaker 2: of sit by the waterfall.
Speaker 3: Right now, I'm just sitting by the waterfall. Like other days,
Speaker 3: I do other stuff, but like just stitting by a fall, now.
Speaker 2: That's pretty good. What do you normally do on a
Speaker 2: day like this? In this job?
Speaker 3: I do a lot of stuff. I do like trail maintenance.
Speaker 3: I'll like keep a trail nice and clean and cool.
Speaker 3: Where I do like chainsaw work, where I'll go and
Speaker 3: thin trees out stuff like that.
Speaker 2: That's pretty cool. So you do you believe you can
Speaker 2: get any job that you want.
Speaker 3: I think you can get I believe that you just
Speaker 3: got to try for it. I mean, I got this job,
Speaker 3: and I love it, and I'm sure that you enjoy
Speaker 3: your job from time to time.
Speaker 2: Did you think that you wouldn't be able to get
Speaker 2: this job.
Speaker 3: No, it was just a shot in the dark. I
Speaker 3: just kind of did it out of just boredom pretty much,
Speaker 3: and I got it.
Speaker 1: M h.
Speaker 2: And uh, you're counting people who walk by?
Speaker 3: Yeah, last tuesday here in the park they installed a
Speaker 3: really big bridge with a crane across the river, and
Speaker 3: and I and watch how many people cross it for
Speaker 3: data for the park.
Speaker 2: Is are you formally counting anything? Or are you just
Speaker 2: gonna go back and they're gonna be like, how many
Speaker 2: people cross it? And you're gonna be like, uh, seems
Speaker 2: like a lot.
Speaker 3: Uh, I am counting formally.
Speaker 2: You're counting collies on. Sorry you you cut out a
Speaker 2: little bit. You're counting formally.
Speaker 3: Formally thing.
Speaker 2: Uh you cut out one more time. Say it again.
Speaker 3: I'm formally counting.
Speaker 2: Uh So, how are you so you're talking to me
Speaker 2: while you're counting.
Speaker 3: I'm counting. Someone's on the bridge right now and I
Speaker 3: just counted them.
Speaker 2: How are you right now? Well, you have a little
Speaker 2: clicker right.
Speaker 3: No, I just write a little tally on my piece
Speaker 3: of paper.
Speaker 2: So you're talking to me right now while you tally
Speaker 2: up all the people that cross the bridge.
Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 2: Are there a lot of how many people cross the
Speaker 2: bridge per minute?
Speaker 3: Not a lot so far. I've been out here for
Speaker 3: about forty minutes. I've gotten thirteen people.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, that's on that bad. I thought this
Speaker 2: was like a okay, that's all right. That now sounds
Speaker 2: like it's easier to do while you talk on the phone.
Speaker 2: With me.
Speaker 3: It's very easy to do.
Speaker 2: What job did you want when you were a child?
Speaker 3: I wanted to own a candy factory.
Speaker 2: Like Willy Wonka.
Speaker 3: Just like Willy Wonka.
Speaker 2: I was talking about with my friends last night. I
Speaker 2: think Willy Wonka would have absolutely been like a Republican.
Speaker 3: You'd think so. I think I think he would have
Speaker 3: been green, talky.
Speaker 2: I think he would have been like a Trump guy
Speaker 2: for sure, because right because he's probably like a like.
Speaker 2: He likes big business. He doesn't want the Oompa Loompas
Speaker 2: to unionize. He would probably be like an Elon Musk
Speaker 2: type character.
Speaker 3: That's probably true. I bet if there was a tornado,
Speaker 3: he would make all of the oopas keep working.
Speaker 2: Did that happen in one of the movies?
Speaker 3: No, that happened at an Amazon warehouse once.
Speaker 2: So you're counting, what what what? What are they going
Speaker 2: to do with this data of how many people cross
Speaker 2: this bridge?
Speaker 3: Well, it's actually pretty dramatic. Some some people at this
Speaker 3: state park really did not want this bridge at all.
Speaker 3: There's some drama behind it, but it it's a pretty
Speaker 3: cool bridge. I think it helps climbers get access to
Speaker 3: a cool part of the park. But the climbers kind
Speaker 3: of wanted it to be an exclusive climber area, so
Speaker 3: now any pedestrian can just cross it. So we're trying
Speaker 3: to see how much that's true, and so far no
Speaker 3: pedestrian has gone really over there. They just kind of
Speaker 3: take pictures with the bridge and then leave.
Speaker 2: Do you like animals?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: What kind of animals are hanging out at the spark
Speaker 2: that you like?
Speaker 3: I've seen a lot of deer and elk. I got
Speaker 3: rattled at by a rattlesnake last week for the first time.
Speaker 3: It was pretty cool. Other than that, there's some like
Speaker 3: elusive ones that I'm not seen yet, like bears and porcupines.
Speaker 2: Are bears and porcupines known to inhabit this park.
Speaker 3: They are bears come in here during the night and
Speaker 3: they knock over all the trash cans.
Speaker 2: Is there any Is there any animal that you would
Speaker 2: be scared of? Like if you saw a bear, would
Speaker 2: that freak you out?
Speaker 3: No? I think what would scare me is the most?
Speaker 2: Why a most not a bear?
Speaker 3: They're they're scarier, They they they're aggressive for no reason.
Speaker 3: They just they just kill people out here.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm.
Speaker 3: Like I live in Colorado and think mayor of a
Speaker 3: town I lived by got killed by most last year
Speaker 3: or the year before. They just they just do it
Speaker 3: for fun.
Speaker 2: Is this the job you want for the rest of
Speaker 2: your life? Would you be extremely happy if I told
Speaker 2: you this was what you were going to do for
Speaker 2: the rest of your life? Would you would make you
Speaker 2: extremely happy?
Speaker 3: It would? It would make me pretty happy. I am.
Speaker 3: I'm going to a class this winter for wilderness EMT.
Speaker 3: I'm want to do tons ofness environments, but I quite
Speaker 3: like this job.
Speaker 2: You cut out when you were talking just now.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm sorry. I like this job, but I would
Speaker 3: like to do search and rescue.
Speaker 2: Ah okay, oh for like people?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: How old are you? Can I ask?
Speaker 3: I'm twenty?
Speaker 2: Oh okay, you're a young man.
Speaker 3: I'm a young man.
Speaker 2: Okay. Oh yeah, you got tons of time to do
Speaker 2: a bunch of shit.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Hmm do you think you could if you had to?
Speaker 2: Then you could fight a bear and win?
Speaker 1: Mmmmm?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Are you being serious? That was a serious question?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm serious.
Speaker 2: How's all you if it was?
Speaker 3: If I'm six one?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 3: How uh?
Speaker 2: What's your build?
Speaker 3: Uh? Like medium?
Speaker 2: What do you bench?
Speaker 3: Uh? I don't bench?
Speaker 2: You don't bench? No, how are you gonna fight a
Speaker 2: bear if you don't have muscles?
Speaker 3: Uh? Well, I wouldn't say I don't have muscles. I
Speaker 3: just don't bench when I'm at the gym.
Speaker 2: What do you do.
Speaker 3: Just like the other stuff?
Speaker 2: Like you like a run out of truck?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I did that, and like I usually use like dumbbells
Speaker 3: and stuff because my gym doesn't really have bars.
Speaker 2: Okay, but do you do like do you do like
Speaker 2: a chest press with the dumbbells?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: What you chest press?
Speaker 3: I guess? I guess one sixty?
Speaker 2: You chest press? To you add you chest press using
Speaker 2: two eighty pound dumbbells. Yeah, that's pretty damn good.
Speaker 3: I think I could beat a bear.
Speaker 2: I don't. Yeah, I mean I don't know. That's a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe you could. Six one is pretty good. You could
Speaker 2: be you could be like a small bear.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe like an adolescent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you but then if you if you
Speaker 2: beat up a baby bear, the mom bear is gonna
Speaker 2: come and kill you. Well yeah, do people still have
Speaker 2: picnics at the park?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's actually been a big problem here.
Speaker 2: Why is it a problem? Isn't that what parks for?
Speaker 3: What it's there is like picnic areas. But but there's
Speaker 3: a fireban right now and people keep starting fires. Oh
Speaker 3: the cook meats.
Speaker 2: You know who doesn't like fires?
Speaker 3: Bears?
Speaker 2: But there's a specific bear.
Speaker 3: Oh uh, smoky smokey bear.
Speaker 2: Smokey Bear.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: What do you think about Yogi Bear? I'd win, no,
Speaker 2: not if it could beat him up? Like, what do
Speaker 2: you think about him? Just like as a concept?
Speaker 3: Oh? Oh, you know, he's pretty cool. I guess he.
Speaker 3: I respect his desire to steal from people's picnic baskets.
Speaker 2: Have you ever watched the Yogi Bear movie? I think
Speaker 2: it was like in two thousand, Paul, I'm gonna look
Speaker 2: this up. Yogi Bear movie ten. That's old, man. The
Speaker 2: Yogi Bear three D movie too, is fucking fifteen years old.
Speaker 3: That's I think I do remember that. I don't. I
Speaker 3: don't remember much about it, but I think I remember it.
Speaker 2: What's your name again, Kalem Kalum Callum? Is there anything
Speaker 2: else that I can do for you out of this conversation?
Speaker 2: Or do you feel like it was it was what
Speaker 2: you wanted?
Speaker 3: Uh, It's pretty much what I wanted. But I was curious.
Speaker 3: I'm coming to New York in a bit, and I
Speaker 3: was wondering if you have a specific day you go
Speaker 3: to the park.
Speaker 2: No, I just kind of do it. It's not a
Speaker 2: thing that I premeditate or advertise. I just kind of
Speaker 2: do it.
Speaker 3: Okay, but be there.
Speaker 2: I'll see you if I see you there, I'll see you. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I.
Speaker 3: Know you like parks, all right, I do like parks.
Speaker 2: Is there anything else you want to say to the
Speaker 2: people of the computer before we go?
Speaker 3: Kleem, Uh, quit your job unless you like it.
Speaker 2: Thanks for calling, Caleum, Thank you bye.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 2: Klem has good optimism, and that is often actually what
Speaker 2: you need. You need an unbridled delusion. That kind of
Speaker 2: honestly goes into what I was ranting about at the
Speaker 2: end of the last call, which is that you need
Speaker 2: unbridled delusion and optimism to even have a fighting chance.
Speaker 2: So shout out to Kalem for the inspiration he provides
Speaker 2: by simply being who he is, goes on the line
Speaker 2: taking phone calls every night, goes to his teaching you
Speaker 2: an expert