1 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, Everybody. Today's classic is from our October episode 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: called Why Would You Put a Cadaver on Trial? It 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: tells the story of Pope Formosis, whose body was put 4 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: on trial after his death in the year eight nineties six, 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: As in his actual cadaver was dug up and put 6 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: on the stand with a deacon speaking for him. So 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: while this episode has the Halloween e elements of a 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: cadaver and an exhimation which everyone loves, it is also 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: a look at papal history dating back to more than 10 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: a thousand years ago. That's kind of a random side note. 11 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: This episode is from former hosts Sarah and Bablina, and 12 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: as they're talking at the top of the show, they 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: say that they don't go looking for exhamations to talk 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 1: about in the podcast, They just kind of keep stumbling 15 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: over them. That is definitely not the case anymore. I 16 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: do go looking for exhamations. There is a Google alert involved. 17 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: Enjoy Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a 18 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 19 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Dowdy and I'm deliving chalk Reboarding and we 20 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: are continuing with our spooky Halloween October series, and we 21 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: figured it would be the perfect time to discuss an exhimation. 22 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: And people do suggest exhlimations to us pretty regularly. I 23 00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: was going to say, isn't it always the perfect time 24 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: to discuss an exhimation is if it is stuff you 25 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: missed in history class, But we promised that most of 26 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: the time we don't go looking for these exlimations. They 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: just kind of happen. It'll be something completely unrelated to 28 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: a potentially disinterred body, and then suddenly there is one, 29 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: so it's kind of a surprise. But this one is 30 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: not a surprise. Exhimation is really pretty impossible to avoid, 31 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: and it's actually drove listeners like Matthew and Naomi and Barry, 32 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: as well as our friend and former coworker Molly Edmonds 33 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: to suggest this topic to us in the first place, 34 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:16,679 Speaker 1: because it's a strange, strange topic. I mean, to make 35 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: the most obvious understatement. Yeah, it really is unusual. And 36 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: like most exhamations that we mentioned on the podcast, this 37 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: one wasn't done to verify a cause of death or 38 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: to relocate the body. It was done to place the 39 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: months old corpse on trial. So of course we have 40 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: to address the question why would anyone disenter a body 41 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: to put it on trial. Why indeed, especially when that 42 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: body wasn't just anyone but was a former pope. So 43 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: Encyclopedia Britannica always a good place to start if you 44 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: want a general picture for the basics. Yeah, they call 45 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: this trial one of the most bizarre incidents in papal history, 46 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: but you could also call it one of the most 47 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: brutal incidents, one of the most disturbing incidents. But dead 48 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: pope on trial wasn't just this freakish event at the time. 49 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: Before we talk about the trial and the specific popes 50 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: and players involved, we have to talk a little bit 51 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: about a dark time called the papal pornocracy. Uh, it was, 52 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: like I said, a series of kind of dark years 53 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: that started just before the end of the Carolingian Imperial 54 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: line in eight So we're talking way back. This is 55 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: an old podcast. So first, just to give you a 56 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: little context, we'll talk about something a little more recent. 57 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 1: After the death of Pope John Paul the second few 58 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: years back, people around the world, including non Catholics, learned 59 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: a little bit about the papal electoral process called a conclave. 60 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: But the Pope hasn't always been elected by a conclave, 61 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: and in the ninth and tenth centuries the selection process 62 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 1: had a lot of input from Roman noble families and 63 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: German princes. Now these families put forward their own candidates 64 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: and had their own factions, and according to papal historian 65 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: horse k Man quote, the one aim of each party, 66 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: pursued by every resource of violence and intrigue, was to 67 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: get control of the chair of St. Peter. Its occupant 68 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: must be one of theirs at all costs. So it 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: kind of figures that there would be quite a bit 70 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: of trouble plus a pretty high turnover. And that's also 71 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: a bit of an understatement. A third of the popes 72 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 1: elected between eight seventy two and ten twelve died under 73 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: suspicious circumstances, and between eight and nine oh four, the 74 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: most violent unstable period, there were nine popes. Yeah, that's 75 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: a remarkably high turnover, even considering that these are older 76 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: fellows most of the time, even when they're actually not 77 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: always old. But our story takes place in eight so 78 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: really right in the thick of this highly controversial, unsettled time. 79 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,799 Speaker 1: And we're gonna start with the pope who started off 80 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: this high turnover decade Pope for Mosis, who is also 81 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: are exhumed man on trial unfortunately for him. And I 82 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: thought it was interesting because it's not just his um 83 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: the terrible things that happened to him in death, but 84 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,159 Speaker 1: the ups and downs of his pre death religious career 85 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: kind of epitomized the hazards of the time of being 86 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 1: pope or or being um somebody who was a contender 87 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: to be pope. So he had been born in Rome 88 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,239 Speaker 1: in about eight sixteen and he was made a cardinal 89 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: bishop in eight sixty four by Pope St. Nicholas the First. 90 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: We're going to really rattle off a lot of successors 91 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: of his in this brief life story. You may want 92 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: to take notes. Pope Adrian the Second had sent the 93 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: future Pope for Mosis on missions to France, where he 94 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,799 Speaker 1: had performed quite well. He was highly regarded. Then under 95 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,560 Speaker 1: Pope John the Eighth he had been exiled and excommunicated, 96 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: and um there were some pretty outrageous reasons for this, 97 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: like despoiling oysters, and it seemed pretty obviously political. Since 98 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: Formosis had, like I said, a good reputation, he was 99 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: considered ascetic and considered a very peaceful, intelligent man, so 100 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: the reasons for this excommunication were probably more that he 101 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,119 Speaker 1: was himself a good contender to be pope. But after 102 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: time he was pardoned but still not allowed to return. 103 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: Then eventually another pope, Pope Marinus the First, allowed him 104 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: back to Rome and returned him to his position. And 105 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: then under the next two popes st Adrian the third 106 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: and Stephen the Fifth sometimes Stephen the sixth, he finally 107 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 1: grew more powerful. So that's quite a busy life story 108 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: just leading up to his eight ninety one election where 109 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: he himself becomes pope under Stephen, though some big political 110 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: things gone down, so we should tell you a little 111 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: bit about that too. Charles the Fat, the last Carolingian 112 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 1: in the imperial line, had died in his place. Stephen 113 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: had reluctantly crowned Duke Guido of Spoleto out of a 114 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: mess of contenders Roman emperor, but by doing so he 115 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: was giving tremendous power to an uncomfortably close neighbor of 116 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: the papal states. So when for Mosis was elected, he 117 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: also had to go along with Stephen and recognized Guido 118 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 1: and his son Lambert as co Roman emperors. But just 119 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: because for most of this recognized Guido and Lambert as 120 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: co Roman Empress, didn't mean he was on behind them. 121 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 1: In fact, he asked his own preferred candidate, this guy, 122 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: King Arnulf of the East Franks, to come and invade 123 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: Italy and take care of Guido, get rid of him, 124 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: and get rid of his whole faction. And it almost worked. 125 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: Arnulf launched a campaign to Italy and in eight for 126 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: Moses did crown him emperor in Rome, so it seemed 127 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: like almost success. But before Arnolf could actually battle Lambert 128 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: out in Spoleto, Guido had by this point died. The 129 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: German contender was struck by paralysis, and that's what you'll 130 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: see it described as in Missource. I guess this is 131 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 1: the eight hundreds, so we don't get too many more 132 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: details than that. But anyway, Arnulf was out of the running. 133 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: He had to quit, and not too long after that 134 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: for Mosis died, So it kind of seems like the 135 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: end of this immediate story, but that was not the 136 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: case at all. The story of Formosis actually picked up 137 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: just a couple of weeks later after the brief pontificate 138 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: of Boniface the sixth, when a new pope was again 139 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: elected Stephen the sixth there sometimes the seventh. Unlike for Mosas, 140 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: Stephen was a supporter of the splatant party Lambert and 141 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: his mother, the Duchess Agultrude, but he didn't just support 142 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: them in traditional dignified ways. He agreed to conduct a 143 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: trial to punish his predecessor who had betrayed them. Less 144 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: than a year after for Mosis had died, Stephen had 145 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: him disinterred, dressed in papal vestiments, and enthroned. Stephen acted 146 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: as a prosecutor here in this trial, charging for Mosis 147 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 1: with the charges levied against him during his excommunication, but 148 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: focusing on three main things perjury, coveting the papacy, and 149 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: violating church cannons, specifically transferring from the sea of Porto 150 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: to that of Rome. So, a poor eighteen year old 151 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: deacon was forced by Stephen to act as for Moses's defense, 152 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, answer for him, squeaking out some kind of 153 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: defense whenever he could interrupt Steven's tirade against the deceased pope, 154 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: and he was really too scared to get out much 155 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: more than Mumbles. So unsurprisingly, Stephen found for most is 156 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,720 Speaker 1: guilty and ruled that all of his acts would be 157 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,439 Speaker 1: null and all of his ordinations void. And this really 158 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: had a double calculated herk in addition to obviously shaming 159 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: for moses memory, which was the primary reason to do it, 160 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 1: for Moses had appointed Stephen himself as a bishop, and 161 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 1: by having that appointment annulled, Stephen got off the hook 162 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 1: for some irregularities in his own transfer from one seed 163 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: to that of Rome. So it was pretty pretty tricky 164 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: on his part to to clean up his his own 165 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: record a little bit. But it wasn't just about assuring 166 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: Steven's legitimacy though, or cutting out for Moses's proteges who 167 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: he had um consecrated. It was about just completely disrespecting 168 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: the deceased pope's body. And I mean the following is 169 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: really pretty disturbing. What they what they did to the guy. 170 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: And I think this is why um this story has 171 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: stuck around so so prominently in history. YEA. For example, 172 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: the papal vestiments were ripped from the corpse and it 173 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: was redressed in layman's clothes. The finger is used for 174 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: consecrations were cut off and Ougle Trude got to keep them, 175 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: and the body was then dragged through the streets buried 176 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: in a pauper's grave before being dug up again and 177 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: dumped into the Tiber. But thankfully, there's such a thing 178 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 1: as going too far, and even in this violent partisan 179 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: time in Rome, folks were not happy with Stephen and 180 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:27,559 Speaker 1: this disgraceful treatment of his predecessor. So it was kind 181 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: of a situation of what goes around comes around. For 182 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: most of his body was eventually pulled out of the 183 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 1: river by a hermit, where it was reburied, and not 184 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: long after that miracles started being attributed to him. And 185 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 1: to add to matters for for the Romans who were 186 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: paying attention to the story, the latter in Basilica, which 187 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 1: is the official ecclesiastical seat of the Bishop of Rome, 188 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: also known as the Pope, collapsed in an earthquake, which 189 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: seemed like a terrible, terrible sign. And so all of this, 190 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: plus Stephen really pushing the point too hard his insistence 191 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: that the clergy, ordained by forms to send in letters 192 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: acknowledging that their appointments were invalid. All of this bubbled 193 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: up and finally led to rebellion. The clergy and the 194 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: people of Rome rose up against Stephen. So Stephen was 195 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: stripped of his papal powers and thrown into prison, and 196 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: there the allies of Formosis strangled him in August. The 197 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: next Pope, Romanis, lasted only a few months, and the 198 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: one following him, Theodore the Second, just a few weeks. 199 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: But before Theodore died, he got right to work on 200 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: honoring the dead desecrated Formosis. He held his own synod 201 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: regarding the cadaver synod and knowing Stephen's ruling and restoring 202 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: Formosis acts in consecrations. He also had the body brought 203 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: back exhoomed once again to St. Peter's and reburied in 204 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: it's old tomb. So after the brief pontificate of Theodore 205 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: the Second, next came John the Knight, who, to really 206 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: make it clear how uncooled this whole trial of the 207 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: dead pope had been again nullified Stephen Senate twice, just 208 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: for a good measure, and because it apparently needed spelling 209 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 1: out too. He also prohibited future trials of dead people. 210 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: Probably a good policy for anyone, but um not or 211 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: at least if you're actually putting the body on trial. 212 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 1: I'll add that caveat. But not everyone was a foremost 213 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: a supporter, I know, we're talking about overturning this cadaver senate. Uh. 214 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: The last pope in this decade of rapid fire succession 215 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: and intrigue, Pope Sergius the Third had supported Stephen from 216 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: the beginning. He had even taken part in the cadaver 217 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: sen of the trial himself. And like Stephen, Pope Sergius 218 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: the Third also had an allegiance or alliance with the 219 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: Spoletant fact Action and Um he had had a pope 220 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 1: and an anti pope strangled to pave the way for himself, 221 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: and Um allied himself further with the most powerful family 222 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: in Rome, Senator Theophile act and his Byzantine princess wife Theodora. 223 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: And just kind of a side note here, Sergius even 224 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: had a son with their teenage daughter, who became a 225 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: very very powerful future Roman matriarch and popemaker herself. But 226 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:32,680 Speaker 1: as back back to our maintail here, as proof of 227 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: his loyalty to the House of Spleto, Sergius reaffirmed the 228 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: cadaver Senate. And this was really more than just talk. 229 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I know it sounds like a few years 230 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: after the fact, maybe just trying to keep your allies 231 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: comfortable but it meant that all of formosis ordinations were 232 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: again invalid, so anyone who had received orders under him 233 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: needed to go back and do it again. And Sergius 234 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: was especially vengeual for any bishops who had been consecrated 235 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: by for Moses, who would obviously be the men most 236 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: closely connected to the former pope and his enemy. So 237 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: all in all, this is a pretty grizzly story, and 238 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: during the papal pornocracy it extended a bit beyond Sergius. 239 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: To John Peter Fam, former Vatican diplomat and author of 240 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: Heirs of the Fisherman Behind the Scenes of Papal Death 241 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 1: and Succession, puts it pretty succinctly when he writes that quote, 242 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: Although at least in the minds of believers, the office 243 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: that these popes have held in succession is of divine origin, 244 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: how these men have been raised to that office is 245 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: a very human affair. Yeah. And FAM's book that we 246 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 1: just mentioned, I mean, really does go into the nitty 247 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: gritty of it all, you know, um, looking at the 248 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: history of popes and and how they died and what 249 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: happened after they died, and how uh the new pope 250 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: was was chosen, and I think it's interesting to look 251 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: at that we're probably more familiar with the twentieth century history, 252 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: but to look at these times in the eight hundreds 253 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,480 Speaker 1: and nine hundreds and and see what was going on 254 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: and what power plays where we're going on, but we 255 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: want to leave on a pretty interesting side net something 256 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: to think about. There hasn't ever been a pope for 257 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: mostes the second poor guy. Though Cardinal Pietro Barboa did 258 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: consider the name in fourteen sixty four, he had to 259 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: be talked out of it. Apparently his choice instead was 260 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: Paul the Second sounds a lot safer, a lot safer, 261 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: not calling to mind any dark chapters in history, and um, 262 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: anything you might not want to think about during a 263 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: celebratory time. So anyway, though, this was a really interesting 264 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: thing to research. So I'm glad that Molly let us 265 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: know about it. And thanks to Matthew and Naomi and 266 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 1: Barry for all suggesting it as well making letting us 267 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: know that it's something you all really wanted to hear about. Two. Yeah, 268 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 1: it seems like you can get taken to tests sometimes 269 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: for looking at the pope in such a human light, 270 00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: but it is really fascinating. Thanks so much for joining 271 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: us on this Saturday, since this episode is out of 272 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: the archive. If you heard an email address or a 273 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: Facebook U r L or something similar over the course 274 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: of the show, that could be obsolete now. 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