1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 2: Metaglasses, a car sharing app newly discovered overlapping stints at 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 2: Fort Bragg now Fort Liberty. An evil isis flag, one 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 2: dead being Dad and one elite former Green Beret, all 5 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: part of two deadly attacks here in the US. Are 6 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 2: they connected at this hour? The FEDS on the hunt 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: for potential accomplices. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 8 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: Thank you for being with US authorities. Investigator potential link 9 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 2: between two suspected terror attacks on you Year's Day in 10 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 2: New Orleans and Las Vegas? Are the two attacks connected 11 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: at this hour? 12 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: We are learning there is an overlap of the. 13 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: Two attackers at Fort Bragg now Fort Liberty. How did 14 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 2: nobody know that both served in the US Armies, both 15 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: deployed to Afghanistan, both stationed. 16 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: At Bragg aka Liberty. 17 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: Explosives found at both crime scenes, rental cars both from 18 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 2: the Touro car sharing app, and the attacks were just 19 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: a few hours apart. 20 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: Let's start with Vegas. 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 3: Listen at eight forty am Las Vegas time, we received 22 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 3: a report of an explosion and a fire at the 23 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 3: Trump Towers, the iconic hotel that you see behind me. 24 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 3: We were told that a twenty twenty four cyber truck 25 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 3: pulled up to the front of the hotel, and in fact, 26 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 3: I can tell you it pulled right up to the 27 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 3: glass entrance doors of the hotel. We saw that smoke 28 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 3: start showing from the vehicle and then a large explosion 29 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 3: from the occurs. 30 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 2: That cyber truck managed to contain a lot of the 31 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: explosion in front of the Trump Hotel. 32 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: Is that a message? How could it not be a message? 33 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: Take a look at video we have obtained of the explosion, 34 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 2: and then we learn across the country just hours earlier 35 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: to Bourbon Street today. 36 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 4: At approximately three fifteen am Central Standard time, an individual 37 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 4: drove a pickup truck into a crowd on Bourbon Street 38 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 4: in New Orleans, killing at least ten individuals. 39 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 1: And injuring dozens more. 40 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 4: After hitting the crowd, the exit of the vehicle and 41 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,519 Speaker 4: fired upon local law enforcement. Law enforcement returned finally, and 42 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 4: the subject was pronounced ceased at the scene. Two law 43 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,079 Speaker 4: enforcement officers were injured and transported to local hospitals. 44 00:02:55,240 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: Many are espousing that there is no connection between the two, 45 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:06,839 Speaker 2: even though recently newly discovered evidence shows the two attackers 46 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 2: did have an overlapping stint at Brag. 47 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: But what else Take a listen to Sheriff Kevin mcmahel. 48 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 5: There are a number of things in this case that 49 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 5: are similar to the attack in New Orleans. We do 50 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 5: know that our subject here served in the military. In fact, 51 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 5: he's a current member of the military. Both of the 52 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 5: subjects served at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. What we do 53 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 5: know about that is it's a very large military base, 54 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 5: and we have no record that they served in the 55 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 5: same unit or even at the same years at Fort Bragg, 56 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 5: something that continues to remain under investigation. I also know 57 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 5: that they both served in Afghanistan in two thousand and nine. 58 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 5: We don't have any evidence that they were in the 59 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 5: same province in Afghanistan, the same location, or the same unit, again, 60 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 5: something else that remains under investigation. And we also know, 61 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 5: of course that they both used the rental company Turo 62 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 5: to rent their vehicles. 63 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: How does this all fit together. 64 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,119 Speaker 2: You've got one elite former Green Beret and you've got 65 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: one dead beat dad that apparently had been radicalized. 66 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 1: To hateful extremist views. How is this happening under our noses? 67 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 2: And again, are they connected and are their accomplices the 68 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 2: FEDS on the manhunt for accomplices. As we go to 69 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: air straight out to an all star panel joining me, 70 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: but first to Dave Moyer, former Navy Bomb Disposal Master technician, 71 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 2: program manager Military Contracts K nine Tracker. It goes on 72 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 2: and on. Dave Moyer, thank you for being with us. 73 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 2: I'm concerned. How does one manage to have a mortar? 74 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: A mortar morta R in your car? When I think 75 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: of a order, I think of a bomb, for instance 76 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 2: in Afghanistan. 77 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: How do you get a mortar? What is it? Help me? 78 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 6: Dave, yes, ma'am. And what they're referring to is a 79 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 6: mortar style of firework, which is commonly you can you 80 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 6: can buy it at any of the firework stores as 81 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 6: wherever they are legal for their size, they're usually a 82 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 6: larger firework commonly made in China and some other countries 83 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 6: and then important to the US, what these mortars do 84 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 6: is it's just an exploding device that is loaded inside 85 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 6: a compressed cardboard two which is referred to as a 86 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 6: mortar too. When it initiates, it allows that firework to 87 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 6: launch itself up into the sky and create those those 88 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 6: really big pyrotechnic displays. That everybody likes to see on 89 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 6: the holidays. So these are very common to find out 90 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 6: at any of your firework stores in whichever states that 91 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 6: they these large devices are legal. They're generally quite a 92 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 6: bit larger than your common bottle rockets or m ads 93 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 6: or other little snapbangs that people remember from their childhood too. 94 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining me now, Chief Medical Examiner, Terran County. 95 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: That's Fort Worth, a steam lecturer at the Burnett School 96 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 2: of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendall Crowns, in all of 97 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: your years, you have managed to obtain and hold on 98 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 2: to mortars. 99 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 1: Could you please show usn't explain. 100 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 7: Certainly as was described. They're usually cardboard tubes or fiberglass 101 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 7: tubes or plastic tubes, but they the mortars are fairly 102 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 7: good size. You put a shell in him that's wrapped 103 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 7: in cardboard that drops in and then fires out, which 104 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 7: shoots the pyrotechnic display they usually have about this similar 105 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 7: gunpowder is a shotgun round and people often will have 106 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 7: accidents with these, and that's why they come into our office. 107 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 7: They usually blow their heads off. 108 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 2: Now I had mentioned that Littlsburger was a former Green Beret. 109 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: I say former only because he's dead. He was an active. 110 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: Green Beret who happened to be on leave at the 111 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 2: time his attack took place. 112 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: Look at this guy. 113 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: This looks like a guy you might pass at Target 114 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 2: or Walmart, a guy you might see next to you 115 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: at the red light, who knew he had a deadly intent. 116 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: You know what, We're sideeshicked with the mortars. Let's take 117 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: it from the top. Joining me, Harmonia Rodriguez, chief US 118 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 2: reporter with the Dailymail dot com, Harmania, take a listen 119 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: to this. 120 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 8: Hours into the New year, Bourbon Street in New Orleans 121 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 8: is crowded with partiers. At three point fifteen am, a 122 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 8: white electric Ford pickup truck drives around a police squad 123 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 8: car safety barricade, barreling through the revelers. Fourteen or killed, 124 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 8: dozens wounded. After coming to a stop, the driver gets 125 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,239 Speaker 8: out of the crash truck, wearing a helmet and ballistic vest. 126 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 8: Armed with an ar ten, he fires at police. Two 127 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 8: officers are wounded. 128 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 2: This guy had been planning this attack for some time, 129 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 2: including previous trips to New Orleans, where he had taste 130 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: out with metaglasses while driving a bicycle. You know, very 131 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 2: surreptitiously videoing what would soon be his target. Look at 132 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 2: this just recently, Harmonia, I walk these streets with my children, 133 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 2: going up and down Bourbon Street, really taking it all in. 134 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: And Harmonia, we cannot ignore the fact that the two 135 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 2: targets are bastions of US culture. You've got Vegas, and 136 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 2: you've got New Orleans. That's right up there with New 137 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: York and Washington, Boston, Atlanta, the big cities that really 138 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 2: across the world anyway typify the US. Yes, let's talk 139 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 2: about the New Orleans attack first. 140 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: What do we know, Harmonia, Yeah, Ansy. 141 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 9: As you said, Bourbon Street is one of the most 142 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,839 Speaker 9: popular destinations for New Year's Eve around the world. So 143 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 9: now we know that the terrors Jabbar had staked out 144 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 9: this area a while ago, using these meda glasses and 145 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 9: completely going down the same route that he ended up 146 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 9: going down with the truck as he flew this isis flag. 147 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 9: Now we're also learning that in twenty twenty three he 148 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 9: did a trip to Egypt. Now we're still looking into 149 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 9: the details of that trip and whether that could have 150 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 9: had anything to do with his movement into radical Islam 151 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 9: and more specifically isis But yeah, as you said, this 152 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 9: is someone who had served in the military for ten years, 153 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,719 Speaker 9: but over the last years, after some contentious divorce and 154 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 9: some financial ruin, he seems to have radicalized and ended 155 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 9: up committing this horrific attack in New Orleans. 156 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: It's very hard for me to understand how an American citizen, 157 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 2: with all of the rights and privileges that we have 158 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 2: in the greatest country in the world, could become radicalized 159 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: to hate our country. Many people wonder, what are meta glasses, 160 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: what does that mean? 161 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: And how did that help the attacker listen. 162 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 8: The FBI says Jabbar visited New Orleans in October and 163 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 8: November and spend time riding a bike around the French Quarter. 164 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 8: He was wearing metaglasses recorded video as he rode. Metaglasses 165 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 8: allowed the user to record hands free, but they also 166 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 8: allowed the user to potentially live stream. Jabbar was wearing 167 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 8: a pair of metaglasses during the attack, but live streaming 168 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 8: was not activated. Before the attack, Jabbar was seen in 169 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 8: multiple gun stores in Texas. He also stopped to buy 170 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 8: an ice chest, which was used to build an ID. 171 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,839 Speaker 8: The FBI has confiscated three phones in two laptops from 172 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 8: an Airbnb. 173 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 174 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 2: Joining us now in addition to Dave Moyer or doctor 175 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 2: Kennel Crowns Fromanio Rodriguez joining US. Craig Drummond is with 176 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: US Vegas attorney and for my purposes, former prosecutor and 177 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: US Army veteran out of. 178 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: Iraq, Drummond Law Firm. Call the Captain, Craig Drummond, thank 179 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: you for being with us. I'd like to hear your 180 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: initial thoughts. 181 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: Many stating and I'm not ignoring them at all, but 182 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,880 Speaker 2: as a former prosecutor of violent felonies, I can't help 183 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: but look at the coincidences. Many claim they're not conduct connected, 184 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: but I'd like to hear your initial thoughts on what's happened. 185 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 10: While initially there do look like there's a lot of coincidences, 186 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 10: a lot of things in common. As you start to 187 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 10: peel back the layers, it looks like they were in 188 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 10: totally different types of programs. 189 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:08,079 Speaker 11: In the Army. 190 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 10: We have one who's a special operator, a Green Beret, 191 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 10: trained in explosives, trained in military tactics, trained directly in combat. 192 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 10: We have mister Jabbar who's some type of human resource specialist, 193 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 10: really a paperwork type of individual. It would be unlikely 194 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 10: that they would have served directly in a combat role 195 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 10: or in some sort of direct action role in the military. 196 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 10: They could have been in the same unit. 197 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,839 Speaker 2: Drummond, I had to get into a tangle with the 198 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 2: US Army Iraqi Vet. 199 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: I really don't want to do that. But when you 200 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: say it's hard to believe, it's difficult to believe. 201 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 2: It's also hard to believe that an American, a US 202 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 2: born American, would attack their own country. 203 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: So how far fetched is it to believe the next step. 204 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: I'm not a. 205 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 2: Conspiracy theorist, but it's hard for me to ignore these. 206 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 10: What I find different is mister Jabbar clearly was out 207 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 10: to injure a lot of people. And what we have 208 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 10: with mister Leibelsberger is we have him using fireworks and 209 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 10: we have him using gasoline. And that's interesting because he 210 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 10: would have been trained on much much more lethal components. 211 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 10: He could have easily put that vehicle as a much 212 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 10: larger bomb to do a much larger explosion. And the 213 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 10: reports that I'm reading, at least from a note and 214 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 10: things like that, that he did not intend to injure 215 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 10: lots of people. He intended to make some sort of statement. 216 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 10: So the difference I find is that one. 217 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 2: Person, you mean, blowing up your truck in front of 218 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 2: the Trump Hotel, you don't think that's going to injure people. 219 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 10: I would just proffer this, Nancy, if he wanted to 220 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 10: take out the whole front of that hotel and hundreds 221 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 10: of people, he could have done it. He would have 222 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 10: had the training to do it, as opposed to mister 223 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 10: Jabbar unlikely would have had any training to deal with 224 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 10: high combat explosives. 225 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 11: That's the difference. 226 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 2: Okay, you're hearing Craig Drummond, high profile lawyer, former prosecutor, 227 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 2: US Army that out of Rock and now joining me 228 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: now Jonathan Gillham out of Phoenix, former Navy seal, FBI 229 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 2: special agent, Federal Air Marshal cop author of Sheep No More, 230 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 2: The Art of Awareness and Attack Survival, and hosts of 231 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 2: the podcast The Experts. 232 00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: Jonathan, thank you for being with us. 233 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 2: I hear Craig Drummond, But my knee jert reaction is 234 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 2: to look at this comparison and I'm very very let 235 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 2: me just say, incredulous that they're not connected, especially in 236 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: light of the new information newly discovered. They did have 237 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: an overlapping stint at BRAG now known as liberty. 238 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 12: Well, once we discover these overlaps in time, what we 239 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 12: need to then look even closer is is there any 240 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 12: overlap in courses that they took, instructors that they had. 241 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 12: Was there any type of overlap of some type of 242 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 12: aspect that would have affected their psyche? 243 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: For instance, medication? 244 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 12: Is there medication that they're giving soldiers right now that 245 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 12: could have effect or during that period of time that 246 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 12: could have affected their mentality that opened them up to 247 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 12: this type of psychotic or dimensional behavior? And I think 248 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 12: the medication one is very particular as well. Also, when 249 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 12: they were in Afghanistan, where were they exactly? Were they 250 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 12: close to each other? Was there also anybody specifically in 251 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 12: contact with both of them? I think these are the details. 252 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 12: I agree that there's so many overlapping factors here that 253 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 12: it goes almost beyond just coincidental. 254 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 2: I'm just curious for Jonathan Gilliam, Dave Lawyer and Craig Drummond, 255 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: all veterans in armed services for our great country. How 256 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 2: could someone that has served our country, willing to risk 257 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 2: their lives for our country for us, turn on our country. 258 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 2: We know for sure that Jabar had an ISIS flag 259 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 2: and had been indoctrinated. I don't know that there is 260 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 2: anti American sentiment with Libelsburger. I don't know that yet. 261 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 2: But you, gentlemen, have served our country. Do serve our country? 262 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 2: To doctor Chavon Scott joining us, renown psychotherapist and author 263 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 2: of the Minds of mass Killers, Understanding and interrupting the 264 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: pathway to violence? 265 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: How if you are. 266 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 2: Dyed in the wool pro American, a patriot, how are 267 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: you radicalized? 268 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: How can you turn against our country? 269 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 13: I think there are usually three components to this sort 270 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 13: of thing. You've got a person who's enraged, and often 271 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 13: the things that they're angry about are their own doing. 272 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 13: You know, they have failed marriages, they've got money problems, 273 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 13: and there's a lot of anger that they're sitting with. 274 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 13: And then they develop this paranoid thinking style so that 275 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 13: they create an enemy out there. There's other people at 276 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 13: fault for the fact that they're angry. And then they 277 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:10,159 Speaker 13: find an extremist ideology which gives them a map. It 278 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 13: gives them a template for who the bad guys are 279 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 13: and who the good guys are, and that can vary 280 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 13: depending on what The ideology that they get into is 281 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 13: there are actually a lot in history, there are a 282 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 13: lot of military people who have become violent extremists. 283 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,919 Speaker 1: So it's certainly not unheard of. 284 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 13: It's counterintuitive, I think, to the rest of us who 285 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 13: think logically, but it's unfortunately happens more than we would like. 286 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: A soldier detonates a Tesla cyber truck outside the Trump 287 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: Hotel in Las Vegas Injuring seven, on you Year's Day. 288 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 2: You've got him with all his marital problems telling a 289 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 2: girlfriend on the phone. He feels like Batman. Really while 290 00:17:55,880 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 2: just ours apart. A deadly attack in New Orleans than listen. 291 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 14: The FBI releases photos showing Shampstead and Jabbar walking on 292 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,919 Speaker 14: Dauphine Street near Governor Nichols Street at two oh three am. 293 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 14: He's captured on surveillance footage placing two improvised explosive devices, 294 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 14: where authorities later found them in the area around Bourbon Street. 295 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 14: Bomb technicians recovered two IEDs in coolers, one from the 296 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 14: cross section of Bourbon and Orleans Street and the second 297 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 14: at intersection two blocks away. A transmitter intended to trigger 298 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 14: the two bombs was found in the cab of the 299 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 14: Ford truck Jabbar was. 300 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 2: Driving IAD improvised explosive device. Who would know how to 301 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 2: make that and even create a trigger that could be 302 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 2: activated remotely? It seems as if history is repeating itself. 303 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: Listen. 304 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 8: Four years after a pie bomb was found outside the 305 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 8: Democratic National Committee headquarters in twenty twenty one, the perpetrator 306 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 8: has not been caught, so the FBI is releasing new 307 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 8: video and new information about the suspect planning the pipe bomb. 308 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 8: The gender of the suspect planting one of the bombs 309 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 8: is still unknown, and photos of the hood and amassed 310 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 8: individual released early on in the investigation, but now the 311 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 8: FBI is releasing video as well, announcing the person appears 312 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 8: to be about five feet seven inches tall. Releasing the 313 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 8: video as an effort by the FBI to get people 314 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 8: talking about the unsolved crime and raise awareness. 315 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 2: How does a US citizen become radicalized? 316 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: What do we know about Jabbar? Listen? 317 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 15: Shamsu Din Jabbar posted five videos to Facebook explaining how 318 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 15: he recently joined ISIS and how he originally planned to 319 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 15: get his family together for a celebration and kill them, 320 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 15: deciding that would not get the attention he desired. Jabbar 321 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 15: then chased his plan of attack so the media would 322 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 15: focus on the quote war between the believers and disbelievers. 323 00:19:48,359 --> 00:19:50,919 Speaker 15: The first video posted at one twenty nine am and 324 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 15: the last one posted at three h two. 325 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 2: Aar straight out to Chief US Investigative report with Dailymail 326 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 2: dot Com Fromanio Rodriguez. What do we know about the videos? 327 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 2: Hearing words like war between believers and disbelievers, it's a 328 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,879 Speaker 2: flashback for me when I was in New York the 329 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 2: day of September eleven. 330 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: What do you know about the videos? 331 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,920 Speaker 9: Yeah, so, the FBI has told us that they recovered 332 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 9: at least five videos that this terrorists had posted to 333 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 9: Facebook right before the attack. As the package mentioned, he 334 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 9: had said in the video that he had pledged alliance 335 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 9: to Isis that he wanted to kill Americans, and then 336 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 9: he went on to say that at first he thought 337 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 9: about just killing his family, but then he was concerned 338 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 9: that the media wouldn't get his message and would focus 339 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 9: on the deaths of his relatives instead of, as he 340 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 9: said in the video, the fight between the believers and 341 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 9: the non believers, so basically, you know, the fight between 342 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 9: Islam and the West. He wanted to make sure that 343 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 9: the public knew that that's why he was doing this. 344 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 2: Okay, Craig Drummond joining me high pro a lawyer out 345 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 2: of Vegas and US Army Iraqi. Vet Craig, I want 346 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 2: to kill my whole family, But then the world. 347 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: In the media won't know it's all about. Isis? 348 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 2: I know it sounds crazy, right, but you and I 349 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 2: know the definition, the legal definition of insanity under the 350 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 2: old MacNaughton rule part of our common law. This guy 351 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: is not crazy. He's crazy like a fox, if anything. So, 352 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 2: after what you have been through serving in Iraq and more, 353 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,800 Speaker 2: how does this happen? How does someone a US born 354 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 2: citizen from Texas become radicalized to hate America. 355 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 10: Well, they're selfish and that's what it really comes down to. 356 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 10: They are extremely selfish. And I don't know what his 357 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 10: message was. His message that he couldn't get by a 358 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 10: quote killing his family or killing his friends. He needed 359 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 10: to go out there to kill innocent people trying to 360 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 10: enjoy a great city on a great day, trying to get. 361 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 11: In the new year. 362 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 10: It's infuriating, and it happens because people choose to put 363 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 10: themselves first. They choose to forget that they once took 364 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 10: an oath to serve our country. They choose to forget 365 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 10: that it's important to live in a community and to 366 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 10: help others and not kill them. 367 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 11: It's infuriating, Nancy. 368 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 10: And I don't know how this individual became radicalized, you know, 369 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 10: potentially on the internet. I don't know why he chose 370 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 10: to put himself over others, but it's very infuriating and saddening, 371 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 10: and it's just it's a. 372 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 1: Tragic, you know. 373 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: Dave Moyer joining me in addition to Craig Drummer, Doctor 374 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 2: Scott Jonathan Gillum. Dave, I'm just very confused. It's very 375 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 2: difficult for me to understand. Of course, former Navy bomb 376 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 2: disposal master technicians. I'm going to get to you about 377 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 2: the bombs, but I was trying to understand the mindset 378 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: of these two that would destroy American lives. After having 379 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 2: served in the US military, How do you serve and 380 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,360 Speaker 2: work with your brothers and sisters in arms and then 381 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 2: turn against your own country. You believe in it so 382 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 2: much you're willing to lose your own life, but then 383 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,720 Speaker 2: you completely do it about face. 384 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 6: Well, ma'am, I definitely agree with the gentleman that was 385 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 6: on earlier about how the former Green Beret would absolutely 386 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 6: have the knowledge, training and experience to make that a 387 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,600 Speaker 6: far more catastrophic explosion that he did. I really leaned 388 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 6: towards at least it seems to me that was for 389 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 6: a statement. Now, in regards to the New Orleans attack, 390 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 6: I can't help but keep drawing correlations to the twenty 391 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 6: fifteen high RC bonding in San Bernardino County, which I 392 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 6: actually responded to and ran a canine track on, but 393 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 6: that it sounds remarkably similar to that event where a 394 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 6: US citizen that was helping mentally disabled folks at the 395 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 6: Inland Regional Center became reed radicalized via the Internet and 396 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 6: eventually traveled overseas to receive training, and it came back 397 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 6: and planeted IDEs and then unfortunately shot an awful lot 398 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 6: of very innocent people. So I see a lot of 399 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,159 Speaker 6: correlations there, and despite the timing, and it really seems 400 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 6: like consequential evidence our coincidence. Sorry, not consequential, but it 401 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 6: seems like an awful lot of coincidences here. That they 402 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 6: both happened within several hours, But the type of bombing 403 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,959 Speaker 6: is completely different, or the type of incident is completely different. 404 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,880 Speaker 6: With both, there's certainly malice of forethought with the New 405 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 6: Orleans attack, and it seemed much more like a statement 406 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 6: driven incident in Las Vegas. 407 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 2: Joining us now high profile columnist with the Dailymail dot 408 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,959 Speaker 2: Com and author of Ask Not the Kennedys and The 409 00:24:54,000 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 2: Women They Destroyed on Amazon. Now joining me is marine Callahan, Maureen, 410 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. 411 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. 412 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 2: Nancy Louuren, I'd like to hear your initial reaction when 413 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 2: you learn that there had been not just one, but 414 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 2: two deadly attacks on us soil, well, that both. 415 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 16: Were on New Year's Eve, that both were in cities 416 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 16: that are known for everything that Islamic fundamentalism seeks to destroy, 417 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 16: which is hedonism. Fun Joy abandoned. That they both were 418 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 16: car bombs, both suicide bombers. Really well, the New Orleans 419 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 16: attacker rammed into a crowd of people before killing himself. 420 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 16: But those are both tactics deployed now by Islamic fundamentalist 421 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 16: terrorists in cities that have since hardened themselves as targets. 422 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 16: We saw two weeks prior in Germany with that horrific 423 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 16: attack on the Christmas Market. 424 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: Officials there used to sort. 425 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,479 Speaker 16: Of even entertain the idea that it could have been 426 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 16: related to Islamic fundamentalism, as did the FBI here initially. 427 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: And I thought that this. 428 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 16: Is so symptomatic of a larger problem in America, which 429 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,199 Speaker 16: goes to the progressive left in Biden having blood on 430 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 16: their hands and refusing to call these things what they are. 431 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 2: You know, Maureen, I try very hard to stay away 432 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 2: from politics, because in my mind, all politicians are swimming 433 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 2: in a cesspool, and. 434 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: I don't want to be in that. 435 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 2: I try to keep my eye on the prize of 436 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 2: solving unsolved homicides, finding missing people, especially children. Here, I 437 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 2: think I'd like to approach a bigger picture that it's 438 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 2: not just one party or the other. It's a lax attitude. 439 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 2: We don't want to see what is right in front 440 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 2: of us. How can we say that at least one 441 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 2: of these attacks is not ISIS. 442 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: Related when there's an ISIS flag. I live through nine 443 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: to one one. 444 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 2: I was in New York when the towers fell, and 445 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 2: I'm shocked at how we want so desperately to avoid connecting. 446 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: Any of this to ISIS. 447 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 2: And when you said, when you made the point, which 448 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 2: I thought of it, I didn't hadn't heard it verbalized 449 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,479 Speaker 2: so succinctly as you just did at Maureen. I have 450 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,479 Speaker 2: read about and studied Islamic fundamentalness that have come to 451 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 2: our country. 452 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: And when they set. 453 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 2: Foot and walk off the plane at the airport, they 454 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 2: look around and they are disgusted. 455 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: They're disgusted by. 456 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 2: Women wearing a pair of shorts, or women with their 457 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 2: faces not covered, not wearing a burka, of the consumerism 458 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 2: in the US. 459 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 1: They hate us and everything we and for. 460 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,479 Speaker 2: And I might say, we stand for consumerism, we stand 461 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:05,879 Speaker 2: for free will. 462 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: That's what we have that they don't have. 463 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 2: And when you point it out, Morine, Vegas and New 464 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 2: Orleans as the focal points of the attacks, that really 465 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 2: reverberates in my mind. 466 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: Moraine, Thank you, Nancy. 467 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 16: Now, I just want to clarify, as we have since learned, 468 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 16: the Vegas bombers seems to have been activated by personal issues. 469 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: He does not seem to have any. 470 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 17: Ties whatsoever to Islamic fundamentalism, yet he shows tactics that 471 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 17: resemble it. And the iconography is unmistakable, and Elon must 472 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 17: be designed outside of a Trump hotel in Vegas. I 473 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 17: think that these things are telling us something about a 474 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 17: laxity in American culture. And I also link it to 475 00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 17: the American response, both policy wise, the tone set by 476 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 17: the Biden administration and on our Ivy League campuses in 477 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 17: major American cities such as New York, where you saw 478 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 17: an overwhelming outpouring of sympathy for Gossens and for Palestine 479 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 17: and for Hamas, for Hamas, not for Israel. These things 480 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 17: are linked. 481 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 16: I saw on the Sunday Shows yesterday, I faced the 482 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 16: Nation Representative Jim Himes, Democrat, talking with Margaret Brennan. You know, 483 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 16: they're scratching their heads, going what's causing this? What caused 484 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 16: the New Orleans attacks? Like what causes these? They're now 485 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 16: framed as lone wolf. 486 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: Attacks, but they are not. 487 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 18: These ideas are viral, They are a virus. We don't 488 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 18: know this guy's extent of involvement with ISIS, but he 489 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 18: left his Kuran open to a significant passage that talked 490 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 18: about slaughter. 491 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: So when you couple that too. 492 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 16: With the laxity of the and we don't know how 493 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 16: many got aways came through. There are countries such as 494 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 16: China sending single military age males to cross our southern border. 495 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: This is a laxity. 496 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 16: On the whole that really needs to be addressed, because 497 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 16: it really is our greatest threat from within. 498 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: Right now crime Stores with Nancy Grace. 499 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 8: The ATF believes shamsud Den Jabbar attempted to hide evidence 500 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 8: by burning down the airbnb he rented by setting a 501 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 8: small fire in a hallway with accelerants placed nearby. The 502 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 8: fire was reported at five to eighteen am, but two 503 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 8: hours after Jabbar was killed, suggesting a timing device or 504 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 8: pressure cooker may have been used to delay the start 505 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 8: of the blaze. However, the flames burned out before firefighters arrived, 506 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 8: and authorities found bomb making materials in the home. 507 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 2: Wow, so he knows how to effect a timer, a 508 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 2: booby trapped device and tries to destroy all the evidence. 509 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: To Jonathan Gillham, joining US. 510 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 2: Former Navy Seal, FBI special Agent Herma Marshall and author 511 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 2: of Sheep and No More, The Art of Awareness and 512 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 2: Attacks Survival podcast The Experts, Jonathan, this doesn't sound like 513 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 2: an amateur. Earlier, one of our guests stated that he 514 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 2: was basically a paper pusher. 515 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 1: When I think a paper pusher, I. 516 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 2: Don't think of a guy that knows how to create, 517 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 2: improvise explosion devices and set timers and tries to destroy 518 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 2: evidence and cases out the bomb location. 519 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: Right now, the hunt is for potential accomplices. What are 520 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: they talking about what accomplices? 521 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,959 Speaker 12: Well, it would be I want to say one thing 522 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 12: about him being a paper pusher. Look, Timothy McVeigh was 523 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,479 Speaker 12: not a bomb builder in the military, but look what 524 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 12: he did. So this individual, we can't mistake what he 525 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 12: did in then military, Harry versus what he did in 526 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 12: his attack. So what we do know is that he 527 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 12: wasn't trained to do these types of explosives, learn how 528 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 12: to manufacture them use a remote device. So I would 529 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 12: think if they're saying they're looking for other accomplices, they're 530 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 12: most likely looking for one or two things. People who 531 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 12: helped him learn how to build this, who share that 532 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 12: information with him, whether that be overseas or in country, 533 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 12: which is even more scary, or individuals who actually built 534 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 12: the bombs for him and he rolled them up there 535 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 12: and then failed to detonate them. So it's one of 536 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 12: the others. But it really still again, it bothers me 537 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 12: so much because they go and make these sound bites 538 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 12: saying that he acted alone. But yet they say now 539 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 12: that there's potential again, potential other people that may be involved, 540 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 12: accomplices that may be involved. This is a disturbing way 541 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 12: for the FBI to put out information or the locals 542 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 12: three days into an investigation. It just these sound bites 543 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 12: are for their benefit, not for anything else. 544 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 2: Okay, what do you mean by that these soundbites are 545 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 2: for their benefits and nothing else. 546 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 12: Well, it would be like a defense attorney or someone 547 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 12: coming out and making a sound bite to help their case. 548 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 12: I think when it comes to the failures that the 549 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 12: city had, they're going to make soundbites saying that they're 550 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 12: safe in New Orleans. They're going to say that, or 551 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 12: the FBI is going to come out and say that 552 00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 12: we don't know, we don't think that there's anybody else 553 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:36,320 Speaker 12: involved right now that we know of. Why even say 554 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 12: those things? It doesn't do anything except calm people down 555 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 12: and make it look like the FBI is in control 556 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 12: in their investigation. And quite frankly, I don't think people 557 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 12: really care about the extent of what they know. It's 558 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 12: just are they figuring it out? And I think when 559 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 12: we hear sound bites like that, and then we see 560 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 12: things like this where they say they're still looking for accomplices. 561 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 12: It is a It's a set of verbiage and sound 562 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 12: bites that don't add up, and it causes confusion for 563 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,439 Speaker 12: people who perhaps would have called in and said, Hey, 564 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 12: I think I know something, but then they heard something 565 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,839 Speaker 12: on television say there was nobody else involved, so they 566 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 12: just don't. 567 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 11: They don't call in. 568 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 2: Craig Drummond that out of you rock former prosecutor now 569 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 2: high profile lawyer. 570 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: Craig He's right. 571 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 2: One thing that my boss, the elected district attorney who 572 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 2: was like a grandfather to me, drill into us is 573 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 2: don't speak. Don't speak to the press, don't care if 574 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 2: they're on the front steps of the courthouse when. 575 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: You leave or enter. 576 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 2: Don't speak, don't taint your case, don't put anything out 577 00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 2: there until you know everything. So he lawyer really has 578 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 2: a point. Like you think that Jabbar did this all 579 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 2: on his own. I tend to think that Libelsberger. 580 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: Did do it all on his own. 581 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 2: However, Jabbar whole different can of worms. He the paper 582 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 2: pusher like McVeigh. He was right about that too. Suddenly 583 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 2: figures out how to make IEDs, make timers, destroy evidence, 584 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 2: who radicalized him? Where do you get the idea to 585 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 2: create bombs. I find it really hard to believe he 586 00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 2: acted Alan. 587 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 11: I completely concur with your assessment, Nancy. 588 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 10: I mean, we have Libelsburger who everything he did would 589 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 10: have been within his wheelhouse. 590 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 11: It would have been within his training and his skill set. 591 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,360 Speaker 10: We have this mister Jabbar who has these bombs that 592 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:40,520 Speaker 10: I agree with the other individual who said he wouldn't 593 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 10: have been trained in that in the military. He could 594 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 10: have learned it on the internet. I completely concur. But 595 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 10: he also might have had an accomplice. 596 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 11: I do not know. 597 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 10: I think there are a lot more questions related to 598 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 10: mister Jabbar, these remote bombs that apparently weren't detonated, the 599 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,240 Speaker 10: Airbnb that apparently he wasn't very successful at burning down. 600 00:35:57,400 --> 00:35:59,040 Speaker 11: But there are a lot of questions about that. 601 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,080 Speaker 10: And to say that he acted alone at this point, 602 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,680 Speaker 10: I think it might be a little premature. I don't 603 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 10: know what law enforcement knows, but I would agree it's 604 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 10: a little premature. But we have things done outside of 605 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 10: his known skill set. 606 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 2: Two military vets. What do they have in common? Crumbling marriages, 607 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 2: their lives and disarray Straight out to dailymail dot COM's 608 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 2: chief investigative reporter, Hermani and Rodriguez tell me about their 609 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 2: lives apart from any anti American sentiment. 610 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:30,839 Speaker 1: That's right. 611 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 9: Aside from their military experience, perhaps the most important thing 612 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 9: that these two men had in common was that their 613 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:42,880 Speaker 9: personal lives had spiraled in the years before their attacks. 614 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 9: The Green Beret had actually just had a baby over 615 00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 9: the summer with his wife, But we now know that 616 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:55,680 Speaker 9: some time before he took off from Colorado to Vegas, 617 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,439 Speaker 9: he had some type of fight with his wife, who 618 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 9: hadn't heard from him for days before this attack. We 619 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 9: also know that he was dealing with some PTSD. An 620 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 9: ex girlfriend said that he contacted her days before the attack, 621 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 9: showing off the tesla. Now, Jabbar, on his part, had 622 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 9: even more of a troubled past relationship life. 623 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,240 Speaker 1: He had two divorces. 624 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 9: The last one appears to have been particularly difficult. The 625 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,759 Speaker 9: ex wife got a restraining order against him, and as 626 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 9: part of the divorce proceedings, Jabbar had said that he 627 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,799 Speaker 9: could not pay for the house that he shared with 628 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 9: his ex wife, that his real estate business had crumbled, 629 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 9: and that he basically was bankrupt. Now this was just 630 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 9: a few years before the attack that made him nationally famous. 631 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, in fact, he's a deadbeat dad. 632 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 2: The wife from a wife had to go to court 633 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 2: to get him to pay his child's support. And then 634 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:03,439 Speaker 2: you've got Libelsberger, who's marriage is crumbling even after he's 635 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 2: just had a baby with his wife. But curious to 636 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,720 Speaker 2: doctor Chavon Scott joining a psychotherapist author of the Minds 637 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 2: of mass Killers, Doctor Scott in addition to his crumbling marriage, 638 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 2: Littelsberger said that this was a quote wake up call 639 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 2: for America. 640 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,720 Speaker 1: What does that mean? Yeah? 641 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,479 Speaker 13: Yeah, what does it mean? It shows distorted thinking that's 642 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 13: going on. And was he involved in a particular political 643 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 13: ideology that we're not aware of? Where he was looking 644 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:41,799 Speaker 13: for the enemy. And usually guys like this, they have 645 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 13: this bizarre belief that there's this external enemy that is 646 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 13: the result of why they're having all the problems that 647 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 13: they're having in their lives. And so it's my guess 648 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,240 Speaker 13: that he was reading material, Was he active in groups 649 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 13: online where there was an enemy? Was it part of 650 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 13: our own political system? From the things I've read about him, 651 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 13: he had complaints about our own government and our own 652 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 13: political system. And so it's this interesting phenomenon where their 653 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 13: personal problems and their rage is a result of themselves. 654 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 13: It's their own view of the world, it's their own inadequacy. 655 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 13: But rather than taking responsibility for that, they're putting the 656 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,080 Speaker 13: responsibility externally, and that's why they act out in violence. 657 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,360 Speaker 13: So there's nothing as dangerous as a holy warrior, you know, 658 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:38,240 Speaker 13: somebody who has chosen an extremist set of beliefs because 659 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,440 Speaker 13: they're really angry. 660 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: You know. 661 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining us in addition to doctor cheven Scott, 662 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 2: chief medical exammer Terrett County. I walk up in the 663 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,319 Speaker 2: middle of the night thinking about family and relatives of 664 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 2: all the victims. Now did that We're just walking the street, 665 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,879 Speaker 2: enjoying themselves in the way orlands, and suddenly you get 666 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 2: the call your child is dead, just out of the blue, 667 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 2: Doctor Crowns, What did these victims endure? Did they realize 668 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 2: what had happened? 669 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 7: So certainly they were all hit by a vehicle. So 670 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 7: when the motor vehicle comes crashing through the crowd, you'll 671 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 7: be seeing the car coming at you. And sometimes when 672 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 7: you're hit by a car at a high rate of speed, 673 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,880 Speaker 7: it'll hit you fast enough cause enough significant injuries like 674 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,839 Speaker 7: a cervical spine fracture or a skull fracture that you'll 675 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 7: be rendered unconscious immediately. But oftentimes what happens is you 676 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:47,279 Speaker 7: get crushing injuries to the chest, rib fractures, you get 677 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 7: splinic or liver lacerations, and you bleed internally, which takes 678 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 7: you a while to die. Also, you'll see fractures of 679 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,440 Speaker 7: the extremities or the legs or the arms as well. 680 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 7: So if you aren't hitting the head, you're going to 681 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 7: have a time period where you were hit by a 682 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 7: car and then you're laying there bleeding internally or bleeding 683 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,240 Speaker 7: out onto the sidewalk and unable to do anything because 684 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 7: you're all you're all broken and in pain. So the 685 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,960 Speaker 7: individuals that got hit, odds are they did suffer quite 686 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,399 Speaker 7: a while before they passed away. 687 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 2: Our prayers with the victims' families and the search for answers. 688 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,080 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off Goodbye friend.