Speaker 1: You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure
Speaker 1: you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Buck Sexton Show. On this episode, we have Jamie Michelle,
Speaker 1: the founder and president of Gaze Against Groomers, which is
Speaker 1: a nonprofit has many chapters rapidly growing. Jamie, Welcome to
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Buck. Good to see you again.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's been a while. I haven't seen your
Speaker 1: person in a few years. Tell me what is Gaze
Speaker 1: Against Groomers? A lot of people maybe you're hearing about
Speaker 1: it for the first time. Your organization, what is it?
Speaker 3: Yes, well, it's a nonprofit organization. We are a five
Speaker 3: oh one C four and essentially we are a group
Speaker 3: of LGB and T people that are fighting back against
Speaker 3: the sexualization and doctrination and mutilation of children being done
Speaker 3: en mass under the guise of LGBTQA plus US. So
Speaker 3: we launched June of twenty twenty two and now it
Speaker 3: kind of just exploded on the scene. I was not
Speaker 3: expecting that at all, but at this point now we
Speaker 3: have over seven hundred thousand social media followers. I believe
Speaker 3: fifteen chapters. You know, we've helped pass child protection laws
Speaker 3: in eighteen states in a year, which is absolutely incredible.
Speaker 3: And the team is growing every day, and yeah, we're
Speaker 3: just we're grateful to be able to add our voices
Speaker 3: to this fight because I think that our voices, I
Speaker 3: think our growth are insane.
Speaker 2: Growth has proven.
Speaker 3: It really just shows how important our voices are from
Speaker 3: inside the community, because straight people are often written off
Speaker 3: as just homophobic, transphobic bigots the second they say that
Speaker 3: they want to protect children, which obviously isn't true, and
Speaker 3: we know that, so you know, they can't attack us
Speaker 3: in quite the same way, although they try. Our Wikipedia
Speaker 3: page actually says that we're a far right, anti LGBT
Speaker 3: hate group, which is interesting. We're not anti our cells.
Speaker 3: We're just pro child protection. So that's what we're doing now.
Speaker 1: The word grooming obviously gets people, I'm sure, very very
Speaker 1: fired up. What is explain to me that the grooming
Speaker 1: that you think is occurring here or that how grooming
Speaker 1: enters into the conversation, because I just remember, I think
Speaker 1: it was on Twitter on social media for a while.
Speaker 1: There was a real you know, anger and real backlash,
Speaker 1: but anyone using that term about any of these individuals
Speaker 1: even and this then comes up in the context of
Speaker 1: like the Drag Queen Story Hour or even just the
Speaker 1: drag show for kids stuff. Right, that's where it got
Speaker 1: a lot of attention. Well, what is it? What do
Speaker 1: we call it when a fifty year old man or
Speaker 1: a forty or you know, thirty five year old man
Speaker 1: is dressed in fishnet stockings, high heels and a wig
Speaker 1: and is shaking his butt in front of children, Like,
Speaker 1: what is that?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that that is what you call grooming,
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know why these people, I don't
Speaker 2: know what other word to use.
Speaker 3: I mean the word groomer and the act of grooming.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's literally what it is. And grooming isn't
Speaker 2: done solely.
Speaker 3: By people that are you know, within the alphabet community,
Speaker 3: but it's just being pushed so heavily from you know,
Speaker 3: from us, from our community, not us as gays against groomers,
Speaker 3: but people within the lgbt QI plus plus plus community
Speaker 3: as well as you know, all of these powerful institutions
Speaker 3: in the country are using us as a shield, using
Speaker 3: our community as a shield to push it through. So no,
Speaker 3: it is grooming and I remember very fondly when when
Speaker 3: on Twitter, you know, they tried to ban the word
Speaker 3: grooming or the word groomer. They tried, they did ban it.
Speaker 3: On Reddit, they claim that it's an anti LGBTQ hate
Speaker 3: or slur, which I think is very demeaning and is
Speaker 3: actually anti LGBTQ because that's basically saying that all gay
Speaker 3: people and all trans people are supposed to be offended
Speaker 3: by calling out pedophiles and predators, or that we are them.
Speaker 3: And so I don't think that these people understand, you know,
Speaker 3: on the other side that that want to say that
Speaker 3: groomer is an anti LGBTQ slur, I don't think they
Speaker 3: quite understand what they're doing. It's actually more harmful to
Speaker 3: our community to you know, gay's, lesbians, trans people to
Speaker 3: to say that, and the backlash is coming, you know,
Speaker 3: the backlash is already here. It's it's growing against our
Speaker 3: community because you know, all you see coming from it
Speaker 3: is this attack on children. And I wish the people
Speaker 3: that opposed us, honestly, I really wish they could see
Speaker 3: that gays against groomers is doing. You know, we are
Speaker 3: here to first and foremost protect children, but also to
Speaker 3: kind of save ourselves from this backlash. We don't want
Speaker 3: to be associated with these people and gays again, as
Speaker 3: rumors represents the majority of gays and lesbians, and I
Speaker 3: believe even trans people. You know, we don't want to
Speaker 3: be associated with this. All we want is to live
Speaker 3: and let live. You know. We don't want to push
Speaker 3: anything on anyone, least of which children.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it, there're word. We're not going to.
Speaker 3: Stop because that's what it is. You know, We're going
Speaker 3: to call a spade a spade here.
Speaker 2: It must be.
Speaker 1: It's difficult circumstances here, right, because you have there are
Speaker 1: people who are are gay, lesbian, h and all the
Speaker 1: rest who are seeing what's going on here, and they're
Speaker 1: being told that they, as reasonable, law abiding adults, are
Speaker 1: not allowed to have a problem with this stuff that's
Speaker 1: being done to kids that you sit there and you
Speaker 1: are in front of kids or in some cases to
Speaker 1: them if we're talking about transition, but even just be
Speaker 1: what they're being exposed to. Is there a lot of
Speaker 1: resentment from I mean from I mean, obviously you started
Speaker 1: this group, but do you come across a lot of
Speaker 1: people who are saying, I never sign up for this
Speaker 1: like you know, as a gay person, as a lesbian person.
Speaker 1: At no point was I saying, you know what, we
Speaker 1: need to have guys dressed as women doing strip shows
Speaker 1: for five six seven year olds Like that was never
Speaker 1: part of the deal. That's not part of who I am, right,
Speaker 1: So how does that all factor into this?
Speaker 2: Oh? We have deep, deep, deep resentment.
Speaker 3: We hate these people for what they've done to us
Speaker 3: and what they're putting us through because no, I mean
Speaker 3: the majority of us, like I was saying, like, we
Speaker 3: really just want to live our lives. We don't want
Speaker 3: to push anything on anyone. You know, very recently, we
Speaker 3: just gained equality, Like we had a just battle, like
Speaker 3: a very worthy fight, and we want it. And as
Speaker 3: far as I'm concerned and all of us and gaze
Speaker 3: against groomers after that, we should have just packed it up.
Speaker 2: And gone home.
Speaker 3: But that doesn't pay the bills, you know, like oppression
Speaker 3: in this country pays. Being a victim is very very.
Speaker 2: Powerful and brings in a lot of donations.
Speaker 3: Uh and and so yeah, it's really unfortunate that now
Speaker 3: we have to basically convince the public a society again
Speaker 3: that you know that that we don't want to hurt children.
Speaker 3: We don't want to attack them, we don't want to
Speaker 3: sexualize them. And it's just, uh, you know, a small
Speaker 3: fringe minority within our community that is really gung ho
Speaker 3: on this. But also I want people to realize that,
Speaker 3: you know, the people pushing this at the very top,
Speaker 3: like the corporations doing this and and the medical industrial
Speaker 3: complex and the people in the White House, you know,
Speaker 3: besides Rachel Levine really his.
Speaker 2: Name is Richard, but that's another topic. But uh, you.
Speaker 3: Know, they're not gay, they're not LGB or T or
Speaker 3: Q or any of the letters, uh, you know, at all.
Speaker 3: They're just using us and pushing this in our name
Speaker 3: because when they do that, they know that you cannot
Speaker 3: criticize them or the agenda. As you've seen, you know,
Speaker 3: you come out and try and push back against it,
Speaker 3: and they're just easily able to write you off as
Speaker 3: bigots or at least they try to silence and intimidate people.
Speaker 2: And a lot of people are.
Speaker 3: Silenced then intimidated by that. They don't want to be
Speaker 3: called those things. And so Gays against Groomors came in
Speaker 3: and kind of provided this ally for straight people and
Speaker 3: parents to say, you know what, look even gay people,
Speaker 3: even trans people, they are against this too. It's not bigoted,
Speaker 3: you know, that shouldn't have to be said. It's insane
Speaker 3: that this fight is even happening, that we have to
Speaker 3: be doing this. But you know, we're not going to
Speaker 3: stop until it's over. But yes, we do have deep,
Speaker 3: deep resentment, and that's why we're doing everything we can
Speaker 3: to separate ourselves from this radical mob.
Speaker 1: I want to ask when I come back, if some
Speaker 1: of the other liked as Glad come after you don't
Speaker 1: don't answer yet, Jamie, I want to hear your response
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Speaker 1: the professional lgbtq I A plus activists come after Gaze
Speaker 1: against groomers or are they open to your message?
Speaker 2: Oh? No, they are very much not open. No, they
Speaker 2: attack us.
Speaker 3: All of these LGBTQ plus you know, rags, these media sites.
Speaker 3: They have been attacking us since two weeks after we launched.
Speaker 3: I don't even know how they found out about us
Speaker 3: that early, but we popped up on their radar and
Speaker 3: they have been trying to discredit us and slander us
Speaker 3: ever since. I mean, you see with our Wikipedia, I
Speaker 3: mean they've been labeling us far right hate group, anti
Speaker 3: LGBTQ plus extremists. It's really funny, you know, Media Matters
Speaker 3: they actually have an entire page dedicated on their website
Speaker 3: to Gaze against Groomers and myself. They've written like fifteen
Speaker 3: articles about us, so, you know, and that's okay. I
Speaker 3: knew going into this that it was going to be
Speaker 3: a hell of a battle, that we were going to
Speaker 3: get tons of pushback from these groomers, and I would
Speaker 3: think that we weren't being effective enough if I wasn't
Speaker 3: Nfgay's against groomers, wasn't being attacked as you know, ferociously
Speaker 3: as we are on a regular basis.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm sure you've also seen recently there was
Speaker 1: that controversy in I think it was the Los Angeles
Speaker 1: Dodgers who for Pride Month. This is going back to
Speaker 1: Pride Month, which was a little bit before you and
Speaker 1: I are talking here, back in June, but there was
Speaker 1: the inviting of the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, who are
Speaker 1: men dressed as nuns who do really provocative stuff. What
Speaker 1: is it going to take for some of these companies
Speaker 1: you think to is the Dylan mulvaney situation going to
Speaker 1: change minds now where they where they don't think that
Speaker 1: they have to live in constant terror of upsetting the
Speaker 1: professional not the everyday people who are LGBTQ, but the
Speaker 1: whole activist apparatus. Like what's it going to take for
Speaker 1: them to stop trying to bend the knee all the
Speaker 1: time and really do things that seem kind offensive and
Speaker 1: crazy in the process.
Speaker 3: I think we're getting there. I think the bud light
Speaker 3: scenario is a perfect example. Target was hit really really hard.
Speaker 3: We helped expose that and and publicize what was going
Speaker 3: on there with the Pride the kids section right when
Speaker 3: you walk in the store with all those the clothing
Speaker 3: and just disgusting items that are not for children.
Speaker 2: But I think that that's the solution. I think that's
Speaker 2: the answer. You know, we just we.
Speaker 3: Completely devastate their their wallet. You know, that's the only
Speaker 3: thing these people understand. Uh. And I think that we're
Speaker 3: seeing that Pride has started becoming a little toxic, you know,
Speaker 3: in business at least it should be toxic in every
Speaker 3: way it is toxic, but it is kind of showing
Speaker 3: to be that, Like this past June. I know that
Speaker 3: you know, on social media, as soon as June first,
Speaker 3: midnight strikes, all of these companies put up their their
Speaker 3: little rainbow logos and avatars. And I think that we
Speaker 3: saw that, you know, this past June, those only stayed
Speaker 3: up for a few days for the most part, whereas
Speaker 3: in the past, you know, they were up for the
Speaker 3: entire month, if not more than that.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, I'm hopeful about that.
Speaker 3: I think we just have to continue to hit them
Speaker 3: where it hurts until they understand that, you know, this
Speaker 3: isn't going to stand anymore.
Speaker 2: And you know, beyond.
Speaker 3: Just pushing it on children, it's also you know, favorability
Speaker 3: is decreasing for gays and lesbians and trans people in
Speaker 3: this country also just because it's being shoved down everyone's throats.
Speaker 3: I mean, we represent a very small minority in this country.
Speaker 3: I think gay people make up like under ten percent
Speaker 3: of the population. Trans people are literally point zero three
Speaker 3: percent of the population. And yet you know, you have
Speaker 3: just every business shoving it down and in every show,
Speaker 3: everywhere you look, you cannot escape the rainbow, and it's
Speaker 3: propaganda and people are just sick of it. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm sick of it. I June is my least favorite month,
Speaker 3: and I cannot wait until it's over every year. And
Speaker 3: so I can only imagine how the rest of the
Speaker 3: country feels that are not gay or you know, in
Speaker 3: the in the community.
Speaker 1: What do you think is going on when you see
Speaker 1: I don't know if you saw this specific story, but
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've seen similar things. Brown University students, the
Speaker 1: incoming class I think it is for next year at
Speaker 1: Brown University or this yeah, this coming year at Brown University,
Speaker 1: forty percent of them identify as LGBTQIA plus forty percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's insane, it's absolutely in.
Speaker 1: I mean, what are we supposed to believe it? They're
Speaker 1: all they're all either gay or lesbian or trans or
Speaker 1: are they just a lot of people who are allies
Speaker 1: who want to be part of the movement. So they
Speaker 1: say they're questioning or something like what's going on? There's
Speaker 1: no way they're forty that forty percent of them are
Speaker 1: actually like living their lives as in that way or
Speaker 1: are they?
Speaker 2: I don't know, No, no, I mean I don't think.
Speaker 3: So. It's so funny because the people that are against
Speaker 3: us always like to say that, you know, this isn't
Speaker 3: a social contagion. But these numbers are absolutely insane. This
Speaker 3: is in knowing, a natural occurrence. It's it is a
Speaker 3: social contagion, and it's infecting and and affecting our youth
Speaker 3: more than anyone. You know, a lot of these people
Speaker 3: on the other side say, oh, people, you know, they're
Speaker 3: just coming out more because society is more tolerant and
Speaker 3: accepting and they're safer to do so. But if that
Speaker 3: were the case, you know, why aren't. It's primarily the
Speaker 3: younger demographic that this is happening to, that that is
Speaker 3: starting to identify within the alphabet community. And if it
Speaker 3: were natural, and if it were the you know, as
Speaker 3: the others are saying, then you would see it across
Speaker 3: the board kind of.
Speaker 2: This radical jump increase. But you're not. And you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think that these people right now.
Speaker 3: It's it's almost seen as toxic, you know, for these
Speaker 3: younger people to just be straight, to just be a
Speaker 3: straight person so boring, you know. So I think a
Speaker 3: lot of them do hop into the community and just
Speaker 3: in any way they can. And now the queue and
Speaker 3: the non binary and all of that, I mean, you don't.
Speaker 2: Have to do much to fit into it anymore.
Speaker 3: You know, you just kind of just say it, and
Speaker 3: it changes every day, and gender isn't real and it
Speaker 3: can change minute to minute, and so, you know, I
Speaker 3: think a lot of these people are feeling peer pressure
Speaker 3: as well, and that also is part of the contagion.
Speaker 1: Jamie, I want to ask you to close this out
Speaker 1: here in a second, because you're also you're a creative right,
Speaker 1: you do creative work. What you think about the what
Speaker 1: we've seen so far about the latest snow White movie.
Speaker 1: It's no longer snow White in the Seven Dwarves. It's
Speaker 1: just snow White, and snow White is a Latina and
Speaker 1: the dwarves are now not dwarves. They're just a very
Speaker 1: diverse group of people. Anyway. We'll get to that in
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Speaker 1: Jamie the New snow White as a creative, as an
Speaker 1: artiste in our own right, what do you make of it?
Speaker 3: I think it's I mean, you know, I don't really
Speaker 3: participate in the conservative outrage for every movie like this
Speaker 3: Barbie thing is out of control from the right. I mean,
Speaker 3: I get it, it's okay to touch on, but I
Speaker 3: think it just feeds more into the left. But with this,
Speaker 3: I think it was a bad movie to choose to
Speaker 3: go so woke because the name is literally snow white
Speaker 3: because her skin was so white.
Speaker 2: So it's very strange to me.
Speaker 3: I think it's sad that they're taking job opportunities away
Speaker 3: from Dwarves. You know what, The whole rewrite is just
Speaker 3: very silly. If you want to come up with a
Speaker 3: new story, then come up with that. But to try
Speaker 3: and remake a classic in such a ridiculous ways, I
Speaker 3: think it's I think Disney's gonna continue learning the hard
Speaker 3: way that that's not really the best business model.
Speaker 1: How far do you think we are from some entity
Speaker 1: coming together that's just doing what Disney used to do,
Speaker 1: which would just make great, timeless, classic entertainment for family
Speaker 1: and children, family and kids, without constantly pushing political agendas
Speaker 1: that are of the moment too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that.
Speaker 3: You know, there's companies that are trying Daily Wire has
Speaker 3: put out some great stuff.
Speaker 2: I know they have a Kid's a Kid's Department.
Speaker 3: Or coming out soon. I think if that's still on
Speaker 3: the book in the plans. Uh, But that's what we need,
Speaker 3: you know, you need competition and let the best movie
Speaker 3: slash Mayon win.
Speaker 2: So yeah, hopefully, hopefully we see more of that.
Speaker 1: Jamie Michelle. Everybody. Where should folks go to learn more
Speaker 1: about Gaze Against Groomers?
Speaker 2: You can go to.
Speaker 3: Gaye against Groomers dot com. We are totally independent grassroots.
Speaker 3: If you care about our mission and would like to
Speaker 3: support us, you can donate directly from our site. We
Speaker 3: also have some cool merch that you can find on there,
Speaker 3: and to follow us, just go to on Twitter or
Speaker 3: should I say x uh, just Gays against Groomers will
Speaker 3: pop up all of our socials. You can just search
Speaker 3: Gays against Groomers and we'll pop right up. But yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, we're still just getting started. We're a little
Speaker 3: over a year old, and the fight we will win
Speaker 3: this fight, I'm confident, but we have quite a ways
Speaker 3: to go. So we need everybody, everybody to be vocal
Speaker 3: and hoppen because an entire generation is on the line here.
Speaker 1: Jamie, thanks so much, good to talk to you.
Speaker 2: You too. Thanks