1 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: middle income families need help. We're coming out of COVID nineteen. 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: You want to keep our economy strong. When you have 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: an infrastructure build, there's spin off the back. There's spin 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: off in cities, from towns all across from America. Floomberg 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: Sound on Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's top name. 7 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: So we need to incentivize the manufacturing of chips in America. 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: I do believe the vactin of dated effective. I think 9 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: what government's role in to share the client, share the fact, 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 1: share the benefits. Schloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on 11 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. We've seen one of the most important geo 12 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: political stories of this century so far evolved at incredible 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: speeds to day, following a weekend that saw Cobble fall 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: to the Taliban, the Afghan president flee his own country, 15 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: American diplomats burning documents at the now former US embassy, 16 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: and an American president returning to the White House from 17 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: Camp David days before scheduled to address the American people 18 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: on an historic day. Coming up on sound and We'll 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: bring you to the White House to speak with Bloomberg's 20 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: and Marie Hordern, who's standing by right now, and we'll 21 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,040 Speaker 1: be joined by former White House communications official and political 22 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: optics expert Adam bellmar about the response inside the administration. 23 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: President Biden was not supposed to return to the White House, 24 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: as we've told you until the middle of this week, 25 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 1: but as you heard live last hour on Bloomberg Radio, 26 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: he returned from Camp David to speak to the American 27 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: people from the East Room. I stand squarely behind my decision. 28 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: Over the coming days, we intend to transport out thousands 29 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: of American citizens we've been living and working in Afghanistan. 30 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 1: We'll also continue to support the safe departure civilian personnel, 31 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: the civilian personnel of our allies we're still serving in Afghanistan. 32 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: And we go to the White House now, where Bloomberg's 33 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: and Marie Hordern has been since the President returned and Marie, 34 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: the President walked through the history of this conflict and 35 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: said he will not repeat the mistake of fighting indefinitely. 36 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: Then it turns out he got back in the motor 37 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: Katie's headed back to Camp David. Yeah, I think the 38 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: optics for the President is going to be tricky, with 39 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: many saying they're still a situation unfolding in Cobble, especially 40 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: at the airport where Joe, you and I both we're 41 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: on together. When we heard that the Pentagon was even 42 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: adding another thousand troops, the more troops than we even 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: had there we were trying to draw them down. Has 44 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: now been doubled, the seven thousands to make sure the 45 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: US personnel is evacuated. And the speech he went through 46 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: all the reasons why, which we all know this was. 47 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: He said again is the deal struck under the former 48 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: administration that he inherited. But also we talked about the 49 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: will of the Ascian army that just wasn't there. But 50 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: not to ask yourself to what kind of will could 51 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 1: the Ascian army have when also the US government's publicly 52 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 1: negotiating with the Taliban. For many of them, it just 53 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: felt like this was a gun deal years ago. That's 54 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: an important part of the story. Anne, Marie. I know 55 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: you're in a busy atmosphere with the President coming and going, 56 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: but but just tell us quickly about the way this 57 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: went down. It was pulled coverage right. We did not 58 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: have a room full of reporters and the President took 59 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 1: no questions, exactly cooled coverage. I signed up to go 60 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: in and I was denied. A part of this is 61 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: because they are trying to member smallest since COVID, but 62 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: many are starting to think potentially this is just because 63 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: it was something He was only going to give a speech, 64 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 1: no questions at all, and then he got back on 65 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: Marine one. I'm saw the White House. The President has 66 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: lesson actually outside Joe where there's protesters protesting what is 67 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: going on? The one thing the President did not did 68 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: not address this was the elephant in the room. It's 69 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: the question of why why was the restorer handled in 70 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: this way? Cares the World war? From CNN who's been 71 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: in Cobble said many astandings on the street stage there. 72 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: We can understand why the US has to get out 73 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: at this point, but why did that s not answered 74 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: that question that everyone has been talking about. Sounds like 75 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: a challenge cell signal from the White House Lawn and Marie, 76 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: we thank you and we'll let you get in position 77 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: for your next bit of duty. Here on Bloomberg TV, 78 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 1: Washington correspondent Emory Horder and holding down at the White House, 79 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: and we want to bring in Adam Belmar for his 80 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: special view on this. You heard Adam on Friday here 81 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,559 Speaker 1: on sound on his principal at the Advocacy Content Kitchen. 82 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: Former ABC News Washington senior producer, former Deputy Assistant to 83 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: the President and deputy Director of White House Communications in 84 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: the Double Bush administration. Adam, welcome back. The optics surrounding 85 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 1: our departure in Afghanistan have been challenged. I think it's 86 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: safe to say not only from the images in Cobble, 87 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: but from Camp David, where we've talked a lot about 88 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: the President sitting alone in that conference room, staring at 89 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: the screen with empty chairs. Was it the right thing 90 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: to come back to the White House today? Oh? In 91 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: my line, there was no doubt that the President made 92 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,559 Speaker 1: the right call to come back to the White House 93 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: and delivered this address from the East Room, his back 94 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: to the south wall of the East Room, with those 95 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: gold curtains pulled shut and those American flags behind him. 96 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: He entered that room swiftly. He was focused, Joe, he 97 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: was powerful, resolute, He looked healthy, and I think that 98 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: speech was delivered well, and most importantly, it was intended 99 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: for a domestic American audience. I thought the President's optics 100 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: around the speech today were quite strong, and they stood 101 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: in contrast to the sitting alone in a cavernous room 102 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: at Camp David's things. So obviously we're spinning out of 103 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: control over the weekend, apparently already on his way back 104 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: to Camp David. Adam, you and I talked a lot 105 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: about the Camp David on Friday and the many resources 106 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: he has there. Uh And before we dig into that 107 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: a bit more, why this afternoon, Why the East Room? 108 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: Your job at the White House was to make decisions 109 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: like that based on the needs and the urgency of 110 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: the moment. Doesn't the end of America, his longest war, 111 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: justify a national primetime address from behind the desk in 112 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: the Oval Office. Well, the President had already addressed the 113 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: nation on the decision to leave. This is obviously a 114 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: much more dynamic, uncertain, and emergent set of circumstances as 115 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: we actually leave. I think it was this afternoon for 116 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: another reason. Cobble is nine and a half hours ahead 117 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,840 Speaker 1: of Washington, d C. And we saw the chaos at 118 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: the airport today, the horrible scene of Afghan He's grabbing 119 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: onto American aircraft, some plummeting to their depth at their 120 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 1: left off, but the President was speaking at a time 121 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: when it was pitch black and cobble. It's the middle 122 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: of the night. Um, there was no juxtaposed current chaos 123 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: going on with the full screen images of the president. 124 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: He also made that address Joe Matthew right after the 125 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: markets closed here on the East coast of the United States. 126 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: I think it was well timed and quite honestly, had 127 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: the President chosen to do this address from another venue, 128 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: say the Oval Office during a prime time uh, he 129 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: would have probably elevated this to an awareness and a 130 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: level even higher than he needed or wanted it to be, 131 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: especially considering the knives are out for the President's mishandling here. 132 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: Although I would say again I think he presented himself 133 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: in his speech incredibly well this afternoon. He was obviously 134 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: prepped quite a bit for this moment and chose not 135 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: to take questions. As we were talking with Anne Marie 136 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: from the White House just a few moments ago, Adam 137 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: Pool coverage only. The idea here was to limit the 138 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: amount of interaction I presume with the media. What did 139 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: you make of that? I thought it was the right 140 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: play and it is not atypical for President who's going 141 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: to make an address like this of any kind. That 142 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: room is almost empty. I've stood in it. You can 143 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: hear a pin drop. The President did a great job 144 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: of looking directly into the eyes of the American people. 145 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: He was able to do that because the script was 146 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: loaded into an over the lens teleprompter. There was nothing 147 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: else to pull his attention away from. There were no 148 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: sound of cameras snapping pictures. This was uh set up 149 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: for the President to make his best case to connect 150 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: directly with the American people, and I think he did that, 151 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: and it stood in star contrast to some of the 152 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: messaging that was coming to the American people on the 153 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: airwaves this morning, when Jake Sullivan, the National Security Advisor, 154 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: seemed to be advising all of us on set of 155 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: facts that didn't comport themselves with what we were seeing. 156 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: The President will there'll be some question about some of 157 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: the taking credit or not taking credit for some of 158 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: the elements of this withdrawal and what some are calling 159 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: it debacle. Was certainly not stumbling. He was resolute and 160 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: looked very firm, if not incredibly focused. I would say 161 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: for this president today, Joe, how about the job the 162 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: communications shop has done. I know this hits a little 163 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: close to home for you, but that's the point, Adam. 164 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 1: You just mentioned the Jake Sullivan interview this morning that 165 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: a lot of people were talking about a little while ago. Uh, 166 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: how is this a portion of the executive that which 167 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: presents the policies and the direction to the American people 168 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: conducting itself here? I'm I'm assuming not real well, but 169 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: you can tell me. Well. I think the communicators who 170 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: have had a remarkably difficult challenge, and they stand separate 171 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: and apart from the national security apparatus, the military, in 172 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: the National Security Council, folks who are actually handling this 173 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: crisis now how it's perceived both here in Washington, around 174 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: the country by Americans and around the world. That's the 175 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: province of communicators. These are the same folks who decided 176 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: to release that photograph from Camp David in the conference room. 177 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: I think they're off their game. They've miscalculated, and they 178 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: haven't put the President in the best light. So some 179 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: of this team is having a very hard time and 180 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: some of it while we're gonna have to keep our 181 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: powder dry to better understand the details of how all 182 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: of this has transpired, what happened over the last twenty 183 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: four hours forty eight hours can be perceived slightly differently 184 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: in the days to come. That not to say that 185 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,439 Speaker 1: it will age well, but it might. But the communicators 186 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 1: they need to put the chin straps on and get 187 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: back in the game. Well, it's back to Camp David. 188 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: What message does that send and what's the real reason 189 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,319 Speaker 1: he's going there? Does he have more ability to be 190 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: briefed in private, does it keep him away from reporters, 191 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: Is he going to be meeting with someone there in 192 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: person or don't we know? Well, it's certainly confounds the 193 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: press that they're not sitting there watching all of the 194 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: comings and going in the West wing and the president 195 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: has a modicum of privacy. I would posit that the 196 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: President and his team are very much like a Bloomberg 197 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: team today. They are playing on a timeline that is 198 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: nine and a half hours ahead of the East coast. 199 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: They are literally working daylight hours and cobble and trying 200 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: to keep the commander in chief in the loop at 201 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: a time when we are not following the opening close 202 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: of the New York Stock Exchange. There's no ticker tape 203 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: for this. They are focused on it, and they have 204 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: a flexibility with supporting the president of Camp David that 205 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: they don't frankly enjoy at the White House. It's a 206 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: short hop they prove that he's here, he's there, he's back. 207 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: This wasn't like going to Mara Lago. He didn't put 208 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: anybody out. But he was right to come back, Joe, 209 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: he was ready to come back, but odd that he 210 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: would leave as soon as the speech has done. No, 211 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: what can he do there that he cannot do here 212 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: at the Well, I do expect that there are things 213 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: attendant to this that we just don't know about, and 214 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: I can't account for all of them. I'd like to 215 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: say that there's nothing he can't do there that he 216 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: can't do at the White House. But uh, there are 217 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,440 Speaker 1: a lot of folks who are downrange, as they say, 218 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 1: who are reporting in. You saw that picture from the 219 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: conference room where CIA folks and Doah who are sitting 220 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 1: on the round on the ground they're negotiating with Taliban members. 221 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: There is a worldwide effort underway, and I think it's negligible. 222 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: So there may be some other things that were not 223 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: accounting for and just don't have vision on. I don't 224 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: see it being fundamentally flawed for the President to go 225 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: back to Camp David. But this shuttle back and forth 226 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: when there's something to say, we'll get trying and he 227 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: will be jobbed for it from Sunday morning. No doubt 228 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: he's been there. That's why we call him on days 229 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: like this. Adam Belmar, long time ABC News Washington producer, 230 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: former deputy assistant to President George W. Bush from the 231 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 1: Communication Shop, We thank you. Adam downed on with Joe 232 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: Matthew on Bloombird Radio. Back early from Camp David to 233 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 1: address the nation, President Biden says he stands squarely behind 234 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: his decision to withdraw American troops from Afghanistan. Addressing the 235 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: nation from the East Room a short time ago, American 236 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: troops cannot and should not be fighting inn war and 237 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,079 Speaker 1: dine in a war that Afghan forces are not willing 238 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: to fight for themselves. And we bring in Norman Rule, 239 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: former CIA official visiting fellow at the National Security Institute, 240 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: for his read on this. Norm welcome. I'm curious to 241 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: hear your reaction to the President's addressed today. Things felt 242 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: very chaotic before he spoke from the East Room. Did 243 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,319 Speaker 1: it help? I'm not sure. I think the President accomplished 244 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: three things in his speech. I think he demonstrated resolve 245 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: as to his decision, and that he has committed to 246 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: not passing this problem onto another president. I think he 247 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 1: also stated clearly that this was not a war that 248 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: we could expect to win, although we had achieved our 249 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,440 Speaker 1: initial goals that are destroying al Kada and destroy capturing 250 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: ben Laden. I think he also conveyed a sense that 251 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: the United States will continue to push for its values. 252 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 1: But where I think he was a little thin was 253 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: on exactly how we're going to do that beyond firm statements. Well, 254 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: that's right, he did, you know, do the buck stops 255 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: with me? He'd seemed to want to strike an honest 256 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: tone norm but how come just weeks ago he didn't 257 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: seem to be aware of how quickly this would go. 258 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,719 Speaker 1: That's what so many Americans are asking. So, in fairness, 259 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: predicting crowd intent, predicting resolve is something that's very difficult 260 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,559 Speaker 1: to do, and I think in a real world, I 261 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: would say the number of people who predicted this, for example, 262 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,599 Speaker 1: to Hillary Clinton would win the election, or that the 263 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: Arab spring would begin throughout the Middle East after a 264 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: single vegetable Cellstan sets himself aflame. Those are impossible to 265 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: predict in terms of timing, but the intelligence community did predict, 266 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: and this is public information that Afghanistan, the Afghan Army 267 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: was eroding in its capability. However, there are many who 268 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: believe that our decision to withdraw in essence undermined a 269 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: the entire structure, which inevitably sell at the first pressure. 270 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: As a former CIA official, give us a sense of 271 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: what might be going on the ground. Now we know 272 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: that there are six or seven thousand American troops do 273 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: at or already arriving at the airport there. Certainly our 274 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: intelligence community is on the ground as well. How important 275 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: are the next twenty four hours for American foreign policy? Well, first, 276 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: your listeners should know that there's an incredible amount of 277 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: heroic activity taking place in Afghanistan from our military and 278 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,840 Speaker 1: other agencies and personnel or presidents. These are untold stories 279 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: that are by volunteers who are risking their lives at 280 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: a critical moment, and we should honor them. In the 281 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: next few days, I think you're going to see a 282 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: more crystal operation is the US government in essence gets 283 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: its act together as responding to existing events. And I 284 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: think also they're just going to be a firmer statement 285 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: to the Taliban that they need to ensure they stay 286 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: away while we conduct this withdraw and the President made 287 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 1: that comment today. I think the wild card here is 288 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: what happens if the Taliban aren't willing to um undertake 289 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: that promise. I think they will because I believe they 290 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: want to see us gone and the pictures alone from 291 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: the airport are giving us the strategic embarrassment that they see. 292 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 1: How about that? And then once we're gone, it's back 293 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: to the old Taliban pretty much. So, although I think 294 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: they've seen the benefits of diplomacy and their engagement which 295 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 1: Russia and China, I think it's going to be important. 296 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: China is going to look to protect everything from um, 297 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: its own weaker population from the contagion of Taliban. Russia 298 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 1: is going to work with to improve its influence in 299 00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: Central Asia at the expense of the United States, because 300 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: Central Asian states are worried about terrorist groups that are 301 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: based in Afghanistan. I think you're gonna watch Iran also 302 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: work to bring in some of the Afghan brigades from 303 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: Syria that it's run to increase its influence in the region. 304 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: All of these countries will be dealing with a problem. 305 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: But above all, I think we need to recognize that 306 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: this is a moment when ALCADA could reconstitute itself. The 307 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: ALCADA operatives in in Iran, which included second in command 308 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: syfe a Lot, are likely waiting to return to Afghanistan, 309 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: and we've got to do everything we can to um 310 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: obviously prevent that from happening. So the job for US 311 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: counter terrorism experts has just become much much harder. Well, 312 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 1: tell me more about that. Obviously, it was Kaida that 313 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: attacked us on nine eleven and began all of this. 314 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 1: Will they find harbor in Afghanistan once again or do 315 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: you think it is more likely Iran or some other country. Well, first, 316 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: within Afghanistan right now, you already have al PAD operatives 317 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,120 Speaker 1: on the ground, as well as operatives from ISIS. You have, however, 318 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: Iran's Iran holding the ALKADA leadership in loose um detention. 319 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: And remember Abu Mohammad del Mustri and his daughter were 320 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: killed by someone last year because they were likely undertaking 321 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: terrorist activity that needed to be stopped. I think they're 322 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: going to steak to come back into country. However, al 323 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: Pad is not the same organization it used to be, 324 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: and I think you've you've got this new mix of 325 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: terrorists and we it will take them a while to 326 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: reconstitute themselves. They're probably about twenty different terrorist groups operating 327 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: in the region and there's going to be a scrum 328 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: for influence and power. Here's your your most interesting or 329 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: dangerous point. The Taliban of emptied Afghanistan's prisons, which contains 330 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 1: some of the most hardened, seasoned al Kada and militant 331 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: operatives that we were able to to to detain. They 332 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: are now loose and they're going to be looking for 333 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: the leadership and they're going to be looking for uh 334 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: full opportunities to strict the United States Norm Rule, former 335 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: CIA official visiting fellow at the National Security Institute. We 336 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: thank you so much for the time, and remember what 337 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: Norm said. There are heroes on the ground operating right 338 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: now in Kabbal saving lives. As many people ask, what 339 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: will happen to the interpreters and our other friends over 340 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: the last twenty years, they will be the ones deciding 341 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: their fate. What a day we've had. If you've spent 342 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: some time with us on Bloomberg Television and radio. You've 343 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: seen it all happen since the President came back to 344 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: the nation's capital, spoke to the American people, then went 345 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: back to Camp David, where his day began, and that 346 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,439 Speaker 1: is where he will stay for at least another twenty 347 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,239 Speaker 1: four hours here as the President interprets all of the 348 00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: information that we have been talking about, of course, straight 349 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: from his intelligence community. There are many things we don't 350 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: know right now, and that's why we want to talk 351 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: with Roger Baker strat For Vice President of Strategic Analysis, 352 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 1: a risk intelligence expert has been monitoring Afghanistan for decades. 353 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: He leads Stratford Strategic Thinking on global issues, future trends 354 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 1: and Roger, welcome. You've got quite a bit to think about. 355 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: I wonder what your thoughts are going back to the 356 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: weekend before we heard from the President today and the 357 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: comparisons to the evacuation of Saigon. We've heard a lot 358 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: of explaining about what took part there, what happened there, 359 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: and the administration is trying to show a posture of 360 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: confidence that we are in control of the airport, for instance. 361 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: But did you ever think you'd see that image of 362 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: diplomats burning documents on the roof of the now former 363 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: US embassy unfortunately in some ways, Yes, Um. The the 364 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: question for probably a decade almost on Afghanistan is how 365 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: is the US going to get out? And is there 366 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: any um decent interval for the United States to be 367 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: able to uh make its way out of Afghanistan without 368 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: looking like a complete collapse. And it's been very difficult 369 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: to see any any way that the U. S could 370 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: get out in a in a less um unfortunate set 371 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: of circumstances. Do you believe that officials at the White 372 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: House had no idea how quickly this might happen? And 373 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: if if they did, why did the President try to 374 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: suggest otherwise? I think that there was a a belief 375 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: that there were probably a few more weeks before the 376 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: fall of Kabbable, that it wasn't going to happen quite 377 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 1: as rapidly as it did. The collapse of many of 378 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: the Afghan security forces, the speed with which they left 379 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: their posts or Afghan police I think was unexpected, particularly 380 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: in this in this last phase, there was some int 381 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: the patient that there would be a concentration of forces 382 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: in and around Kabul to try to protect the city, 383 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: when the president fled, when the forces started to collapse. 384 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: Clearly things moved much faster than people anticipated. What happens 385 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 1: from here. I'm sure that we have members of the 386 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: intelligence community on the ground, there are these real time 387 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: game day calls. Or do we have an intelligence community 388 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 1: and an administration rolling out plans that have been long 389 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: thought about. I think that, well, well, there is some 390 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: sense of of long strategic planning or thought. Obviously, as 391 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: things unfold in a very rapid manner, one has to 392 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: um simply adapt and adjust as things are happening. And 393 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: that's that's just a baseline reality, right. So the US 394 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: could have anticipated it had X number of weeks to 395 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,960 Speaker 1: draw down staff and slowly arranged for um Afghan interpreters 396 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: and such to be able to be moved out of 397 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: the country. But clearly that path has had to be 398 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: accelerated and people are having to make decisions on the fly. 399 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: We're talking with Roger Baker from Stratford talk to us 400 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: about the vacuum that is being left here. Roger, obviously 401 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: the Taliban is there to fill it, but how about China, 402 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: how about Russia who are not going to wait around? Well, 403 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: I think that China and Russia are actually taking an 404 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: extremely cautious approach to Afghanistan. Neither country wants to be 405 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: drawn in militarily into Afghanistan. Both countries would like to 406 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: see some sense of relative stability in Afghanistan because it 407 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: threatens their interest in the region. And so we've seen 408 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: both Moscow and Beijing engaged with the Taliban. Both have 409 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 1: also issued a caution to the Taliban. They said, We're 410 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: willing to uh interact with a Taliban leadership, but we're 411 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: going to withhold formal diplomatic recognition until we see if 412 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: the Taliban is capable of basically stopping the use of 413 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 1: Afghanistan as a base of operations for attacks against Chinese 414 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: Russian interests in Central Asia or South Asia, or in 415 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: China itself. Roger I started this conversation with a reference 416 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,400 Speaker 1: to Saigon. There's been a lot of concern about evacuating 417 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: our allies there, the actual allies, the Afghan allies who 418 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: helped us in the war zone by acting as interpreters, drivers, contractors, 419 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: and so forth. How important will it be to rescue 420 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: them to safety and how much of a black eye 421 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: could that be for the U S if those are 422 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: left behind. I mean, certainly from a from a what 423 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: is what is right um, from a humanitarian perspective, and 424 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: from a trust perspective, particularly from the point of view 425 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,199 Speaker 1: of our armed forces that have served in Afghanistan for 426 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: the past twenty years, there's a clear necessity to take 427 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: responsibility for these individuals and help them to get out 428 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: of the country. As for the the long term question 429 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:59,479 Speaker 1: of a black eye, I think that the United States, 430 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: there is a recognition internationally UH that the United States 431 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: does shift and adjust its attention and its focus, that 432 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: at times it will end up leaving unfortunate situations, but 433 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:18,159 Speaker 1: that overall UH, one shouldn't entirely underestimate the United States 434 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: when its attention is actually drawn UH and focused on 435 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: a particular threat or a particular challenge. So certainly there 436 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 1: is some political UH loss here for the United States, 437 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: some perception of failure by the United States. But at 438 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: the same time, as countries around the world are looking 439 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: at what comes next in other regions and other dynamics, 440 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: they have to look and say, is it is the 441 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: United States a a h strong entity still or is 442 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: it completely weak? Do we have to accede to the Chinese? 443 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,719 Speaker 1: Do we accede to the Russians. Are the Europeans capable 444 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: of filling this gap? Roger Baker at Stratford, we appreciate 445 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: the insights. Thanks for being with us on Bloomberg's wound. 446 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: On as we keep an eye on history. Good evening, 447 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: A quarter century of American involvement in South Vietnam is over. 448 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: This is manifestly not Saigon. The fact of the matter 449 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: is this. We went to Afghanistan twenty years ago with 450 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: one mission in mind, and that was to deal with 451 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: the people who attacked us on nine eleven UH and 452 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:29,800 Speaker 1: that mission has been successful. That mid afternoon Saigon time, 453 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: and our motto of eight one U. S. Marine helicopters 454 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,359 Speaker 1: descended on the South Vietnamese capital. I stand squarely behind 455 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: my decision. Over the coming days, we intend to transport 456 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 1: out thousands of Americans SUSS. More than six thousand persons, 457 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 1: as many as nine hundred of them Americans. The rest 458 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: Vietnamese and third country nationals were evacuated from the U. S. 459 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,960 Speaker 1: Embassy grounds, from rooftops throughout the city, and from the 460 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: nearby Tontonot airports. Forward to today, I'm Joe Matthew, and 461 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:07,640 Speaker 1: this is Boomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg you Sound on 462 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. President Biden speaks, saying 463 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: he stands squarely behind his decision to pull troops from Afghanistan. 464 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: Came back into the nation's capital for a very brief 465 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: visit today from Camp David, and then went back and 466 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 1: that is where the President will stay for the next 467 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 1: day or two as he meets virtually and in person 468 00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: with his intelligence and military advisors. Having seen all hell 469 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: break loose over the weekend. The President's today says the 470 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: US will continue to fight terrorism in Afghanistan even after 471 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 1: the pullback, and based on what we are seeing there, 472 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: that could take on a few different forms. With thousands 473 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: of troops, US troops now at the airport in Kabbal, 474 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 1: the U. S Embassy no longer, and many members of 475 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: our intelligence community on the ground in Afghanistan trying to 476 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: get Americans and its allies out of the country. We're 477 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: joined now in our remaining moments in this hour of 478 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: Sound On by Kevin Walling, democratic strategist at h G 479 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: Creative Media, former Biden campaign surrogate, and Bill McGinley, principle 480 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: at the Vogel Group, former Deputy Council at the Republican 481 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: National Committee. Kevin and Bill, welcome. We're glad you're here, 482 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: and I'm sure that you're not going to agree on 483 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 1: everything here with regard to the way the Biden administration 484 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: is handling this, but I do know that you both 485 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: want what's best for this country. And Kevin, I'll start 486 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 1: with you. After what you heard from Joe Biden today 487 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: and and some of the backpedaling that we have heard 488 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: from his advisors following a spiraling weekend in Afghanistan, are 489 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: they beginning to catch up with what's happening on the ground. Joe, 490 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: It's gonna be with you. It certainly seems that way. Obviously, 491 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: was President heading back from Camp David for this speech. 492 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: Reality is setting in among himself and his advisors, and 493 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: you kind of saw a president admit to the extent 494 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: that he could that they were wrong in terms of 495 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: the time timeline that they thought would be possible in 496 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: terms of the Taliban not just taking a provincial capitals, 497 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: but then obviously taking the capital Cobb. So it was 498 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:19,960 Speaker 1: some sort of men copa. Obviously, he has to build 499 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: on that in the coming hours, days and weeks to 500 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: make sure that as we serve some troops to UH 501 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: the Carsai International Airport, some six to seven thousand troops, 502 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: that they can work effectively not just to secure the airport, 503 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: but again as many Afghan civilians, international folks back as possible. Bill. 504 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: There are plenty of bad things to talk about here 505 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: optically UH and politically speaking, but people also like a 506 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: president who's honest. We know this was not a popular 507 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: effort over the past many years. And for the President 508 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: to say that I am the president the buck stops 509 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 1: with me, was that moving in the right direction in 510 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: terms of communications. Look, I think that the President tried 511 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: to make the best speech possible with some really chaotic 512 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: and unstable conditions on the ground in Cobble and across 513 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: to Afghanistan. I think it's worth noting that immediately after 514 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: the President's speech, the State Department spokesman took to the 515 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: lectern UH and basically said that the military is working 516 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: to restore security at at the airport, which means the 517 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 1: images that we're seeing right now will probably continue on 518 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: for hours, if not days, but that also US citizens 519 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: who are not physically located at the airport UM should 520 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: continue to shelter in place until they can figure out 521 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,719 Speaker 1: a plan to get them out. I think what this 522 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: means is that both operationally and politically, uh, in terms 523 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: of domestic US politics, UM, this is something that's going 524 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: to continue to play out over the next couple of days. UM. 525 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: I think that the President obviously took responsibility for his 526 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 1: decision to continue on with the play in to withdraw 527 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 1: from Afghanistan. But I think that in those terms, the 528 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: President his speech kind of missed the mark on what's 529 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: on the mind of Americans. And I think, you know, Democrats, 530 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: Republicans and independents are sole focused right now is making 531 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: sure that American service members, civilian personnel, uh IN, contractors, 532 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: and our allies who assisted us over twenty years are 533 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: able to safely evacuate uh from from Afghanistan. But that 534 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: really wasn't the focus of the president's speech. The speech 535 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: was about whether to withdraw, and I think that what 536 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: the American public was looking for was a better explanation 537 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: in a demonstration that the presidents in control of the situation. UH, 538 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: they're on top of it, UM, and why this had 539 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: gone so wrong and what steps are to correct the situation. Kevin, 540 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:51,880 Speaker 1: the President also suggested that the U s would continue 541 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: to respond to any threats against the homeland. There are worries, 542 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: of course, the Taliban and al Qaeda could potentially use 543 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: afghan to stand once again as a base to launch attacks. 544 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: How important will it be to follow through on them, 545 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: And what does he mean by it if we're not 546 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: going to be in Afghanistan. Yeah, it's a good question, Joe. 547 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: And and in fact, you know, Bill and I are 548 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: in agreement with a lot of what he's said. I mean, 549 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: I think you know, it's nightfall now. Obviously in Afghanistan, 550 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: it will be critically important to reopen the airport tomorrow 551 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: for both civilian and military aircraft. But you also have 552 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: other leading intelligence officials on my side, former CIA Director 553 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: John Brennan, for example, that says that al Qaeda to 554 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: some degree will be emboldened by this. They have some 555 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: relationships with the more hardliners within the Taliban, obviously specifically 556 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: around the Afghan Pakistan border. Uh and that we need 557 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: to obviously step up our abilities to surveil that. Now 558 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: we won't have the presence on the ground like we 559 00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: have over the last twenty years, but that will certainly 560 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: be a key focus I think, for obviously the c 561 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: I A all of our defense intelligent agencies going forward 562 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: as we transition from an on the ground presence to 563 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: some presence where we can monitor any of these developments, 564 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: because that will be a critical issue if al Qaeda 565 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: comes back to with some level of strength. There's going 566 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: to be a lot of second guessing, as there is 567 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,160 Speaker 1: going on right now with the evacuation of Afghanistan. In 568 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: the near too late future, I think if that that 569 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: takes place, Bill the President has not pulled back his 570 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 1: words in blaming the Afghan military for for simply giving up, 571 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: for not using the money, the tools, the training that 572 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: the US gave them. Is that fair? Knowing that the 573 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: US was withdrawing and that the Taliban was was arming up, 574 00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: should we have expected anything else? I think that's the 575 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: right question, And every military expert that I've talked to 576 00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: or listened to um has talked in terms of that 577 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: it should not have been surprising after the announces of 578 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 1: the withdrawal that the Afghan military, in a civilian leadership 579 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 1: would not have the will or the wherewithal to stand 580 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: up to the Taliban. I don't think, you know, there's 581 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: a lot of questions surrounding how we got here, uh 582 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: in the last six days with the rapid collapse of 583 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: the Afghan government and the full surrender of the Afghan military, 584 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, it's too early to fully 585 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: understand exactly how this happened, whether the intelligence didn't get 586 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: it right, although there's a lot of reports saying that 587 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: both the intelligence community and the military leadership m had 588 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: warned that the collapse could be pretty quick. UM. I 589 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: think we're gonna need some passage of time before we're 590 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: able to look at this with clear eyes to see 591 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: what went wrong, UM, so that we don't find ourselves 592 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: in this situation again. This is an American issue, UM, 593 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 1: and we need to make sure that our people are 594 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: getting home. And whether it's the Afghan military or anybody else. 595 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: When you sit at the Resolute Desk, you're the commander 596 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: in chief, uh, and you're the one that's supposed to 597 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: make sure that American lives are protected over there. I'm 598 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: glad that they're plushing up the military deployment to secure 599 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: the airport, but I suspect that there's going to be 600 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: quite a few American personnel and others who we're going 601 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 1: to need to make sure that we can secure and 602 00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: get out of that country pretty quickly. Kevin Wiling, we 603 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: have long referred to Afghanistan as America's longest war. Well 604 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,720 Speaker 1: we look back in a couple of years and suggest 605 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 1: that it was our last war. Are we technically not 606 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: at war right now? And how will this impact future 607 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: decisions to go into foreign countries militarily. I think it 608 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: will certainly have an impact. You know, we were on 609 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,319 Speaker 1: the ground for over seven thousand days uh in uh 610 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, so certainly, you know, you have the domestic 611 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: considerations as well and the fortitude of the American people 612 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: to engage in this kind of nation building. Now, the 613 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: President spoke of this in his remarks in terms of 614 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: the original mission of operation and enduring freedom. They got 615 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: off path in terms of wanted to rebuild the Afghan economy, 616 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: stand up of government, and things like that. Now, the 617 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 1: appetite going forward for the American people I think will 618 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,279 Speaker 1: certainly be hurt with our experiences specifically in Iraq in 619 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: Afghanistan going forward, and certainly you saw, you know, the 620 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: encouragement from our adversaries like Russia, China, they want us 621 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: in these type of entanglements from very much longer. So 622 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: he spoke specifically that to to build points MS in 623 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: terms of not really speaking to the specifics on the 624 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: ground with his evacuation, but more than kind of the 625 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: grandiose focus of this overall engagement as a way to 626 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: potentially deflect from what we're seeing on the ground. Bill, 627 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 1: I've asked a lot of people about the comparisons to 628 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,439 Speaker 1: Vietnam to the evacuation of Saigon, the helicopter hanging over 629 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,879 Speaker 1: the rooftop. Are they fair in this case? I think 630 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: they are fair. But I think more importantly for this 631 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: generation and for the men and women who served bravely 632 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 1: UH in Afghanistan, I think Cobble is going to become 633 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: its own reference point going forward for these types of situations, 634 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,319 Speaker 1: just because of the scenes were seen coming out of 635 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: the airport. Um, and I suspect some of the reports 636 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: that we're going to get. I mean at one point 637 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,600 Speaker 1: that you know, you talked about the COMMS issue earlier. 638 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 1: It's important to remember that every major news organization has 639 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: had reporters and crews on the ground in Afghanistan covering 640 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: American and other operations there. Um, they know the people 641 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: who are there and who need to get out. And 642 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: I think it's important for a com shop like the 643 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,760 Speaker 1: one in the current White House to remember, Um, these 644 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: reporters have very personal experiences and relationships with individuals on 645 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,359 Speaker 1: the ground in Afghanistan who are now in harm's way um, 646 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,239 Speaker 1: and do not have a bright future if they're not 647 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,439 Speaker 1: able to get out of this country only a thirty seconds. Kevin, 648 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 1: what happens if we don't get them out, then this 649 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: continues to be more than a daily and weekly story. Uh, 650 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,680 Speaker 1: and we'll hamper. I think the president abilities to deliver 651 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: on issues Uh domestically, He's got a jam packed restive 652 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: August in September and that will certainly be a handicapped 653 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,320 Speaker 1: going forward us within our own country. Kevin Wahling, Democratic 654 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: strategist h G Creative Media, Bill McGinley, principle at the 655 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: Vogel Group, adding a smart take to end the fastest 656 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: hour in polite at Sancho Matthew, this is Bloomberg