1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: can visit Nora Jones channel and be sure to subscribe 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones and today I'm 4 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: playing along with Ron Carter and Bill Frazelle. 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,479 Speaker 2: I'm just playing lo Weuy. 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 3: I'm just playing lone Weuzy. 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 4: Hi. 8 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. I'm Nora. This is Sarah Oda. 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: Welcome to our show. What a show. We got a 10 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: big one. 11 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 5: We have two incredible guests today, two deeply respected, very 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 5: much admired Grammy winning musicians. Ron Carter is the most 13 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 5: recorded bassist in history. 14 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: Are you serious? 15 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 6: Yes. 16 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 5: He's widely known as Maestro and he's been a part 17 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 5: of countless landmark recordings, everything from Miles Davis to Wayne Shorter, 18 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 5: to Herbie Hancock to Aretha Franklin and over to twenty 19 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 5: two hundred other albums. 20 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: ROBERTA. Flack some of my favorites. 21 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 5: He's incredibly prolific, and he just released a new album 22 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 5: this year called Sweet Sweet Spirit, in collaboration with choir 23 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 5: master Ricky Dillard and Bill Frazelle. Is a highly regarded 24 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 5: guitarist and composer who has stretched across jazz, country, folk, Americana, 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 5: lending his distinct style and improvisation to recordings with Lucinda 26 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 5: Williams to Elvis Costello, to John Zorn and many others. 27 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: And me and you. You played on my first record, 28 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah. 29 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 5: He also released his fifth Blue Note album earlier this year, 30 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 5: titled in My Dreams, and it features a sextet of 31 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 5: his close musical friends Jenny Schiman, Avan Kung, Hank Roberts, 32 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 5: Thomas Morgan, and Rudy Royston. So be sure to check 33 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 5: that out. And I'm just excited that we could get 34 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 5: them in a room together with you. 35 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: Kind of random how this came about because Ron Carter, 36 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: of course, bass player that I've been listening to my 37 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: whole life. Bill Frizel also an incredible guitar player who 38 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: I have been listening to for at least thirty years. 39 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: I wouldn't normally put them together, actually, but they were 40 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: doing a string of gigs in New York City together 41 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: as a duo or a trio, I can't remember, and 42 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: so we just thought, you know, why not have them 43 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: on together. Yeah, it was perfect. It was such an 44 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: honor to play with both of them and to have 45 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: them on the show. 46 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 5: It was amazing between the two of them. It was 47 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 5: like a lifetime of music and stories in the room. 48 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there was so much stuff that we didn't 49 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: even get a chance to cover. But it was a 50 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: really fun episode and I hope you enjoy it. Ron 51 00:02:52,080 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: Carter and Bill Frizel and their. 52 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 7: Sweet sweet. 53 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 3: Speed in this places. 54 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 7: And that it's the sweet. 55 00:03:43,280 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 3: A lo lord bears a sweet it be on eats 56 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 3: fair mad f fee, the presence a sweetly spirit. Sweetly 57 00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 3: stay versi with feeling hand. 58 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 8: Feeling us with the love had falls blessing. 59 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 4: We lift our hearts in pay. 60 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 7: Without a down. 61 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 6: We know. 62 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 7: We have been We vive. 63 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 2: When we. 64 00:05:53,600 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 7: Shall the place where we shall They play sweet spears, 65 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 7: sweet had stay right with feeling hunts, feeling hands with the. 66 00:07:51,640 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 3: And fis lasses we lived at Greypad without a doubt. 67 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 9: We know. 68 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 7: That we have been. 69 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:38,000 Speaker 3: Revived when we shall this is placed. 70 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:48,440 Speaker 7: Where we. 71 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: Shall this place. 72 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 6: Mhmm. 73 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: That's pretty. It's a good one. So that songs from 74 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: your new album, which is as it's a gospel album. 75 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:39,599 Speaker 6: Yes, yes, that's great. Uh, you know, I think this 76 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,440 Speaker 6: is a long history, so this I'll make it short. 77 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 6: My mother, who was getting up in years, needed some assistance, 78 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 6: and my sisters found a lovely, lovely nursing home for her. 79 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 6: But they thought that she was needed. Some company asked 80 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 6: her lonely hours because my father passed away shortly before. 81 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 6: So he asked me cause I put together some songs 82 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 6: for her that she knew, and and uh, I put 83 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 6: together eleven ten songs that she was uh identified with her. 84 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 6: And so whenever she wanted to ride down and rest or, 85 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 6: you know, just kind of be still, she could put 86 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 6: the CD in the disc in the machine that they 87 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 6: brought her, and she could hear her favorite song or 88 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 6: songs of this list. Yeah, and and I've wanted to 89 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 6: do this for a long time, but I didn't have 90 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 6: the skill to hire a choir or a vocalist. And 91 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 6: I just didn't have the enough skill level to make 92 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 6: this work as I knew it was possible. And uh, 93 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 6: after telling people who kept asking me what my next 94 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 6: record was, I finally said, I do gospel record. 95 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 7: Yees soure. 96 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 6: We stopped it right there and I ran until down 97 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 6: was one day and he asked me the same thing. 98 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 6: He said, well, I know, uh, gu my stroll of 99 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 6: the choirs church choir, so would love to help you. 100 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 6: I said, well, that does he know anything about jazz? 101 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 6: He said, well, he'll learn some when you play with him. 102 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 6: And so we met at my house and we had 103 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 6: a nice long talk about how to make U this 104 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 6: gospel record with the meaningful lyrics and what input would 105 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 6: the bass have when this stuff started jumping off? You know, 106 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 6: I said, well, if I can find the right notes 107 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 6: that they jump off pretty good. So he hired this choir, 108 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 6: the eighty voice choir. 109 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of voice. 110 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 6: Yeah. Man, they were just singing this, just singing the 111 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 6: ass off. It's just incredible. 112 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: Where are they from? 113 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 6: Uh, he's fall He's he's from the Baltimore, but his 114 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 6: choirs from everywhere? 115 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 7: Oh cool. 116 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it was a COMPLI like a bunch of 117 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:36,120 Speaker 1: people coming together. 118 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, voices or something like that. 119 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: Wow. 120 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 6: And then it's just the song was just overwhelming, you know. 121 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 6: So all I had. What I had to do was 122 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 6: try to find some space when they were in Heale 123 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 6: put a base note R there, Yeah, and I had. 124 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 6: It took some time, but I figured out where that 125 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,599 Speaker 6: was and that the arrangements were just so perfect. The 126 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,439 Speaker 6: walker bassline or a little bass film just because the 127 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:04,199 Speaker 6: voices were so strong and so positive, and and you know, 128 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 6: the more I heard the lyrics for the year, I 129 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 6: understood really what they meant. You know, when you're eleven 130 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 6: and twelve, you just kind of go with there are 131 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 6: no one's here and there what they do want to 132 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 6: see your mimic to some melody, you know. But I 133 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,679 Speaker 6: listened to the words for straight on for a year 134 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 6: I really understood three things. One that the acquired the audience, 135 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 6: that the attendance attendees to the service, they were singing 136 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 6: these songs for some relief, that the melodies were relief 137 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 6: for them from their daily grind. Secondly, they were asking 138 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 6: for some help. They were pleased for can can you 139 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 6: great person almighty where if they were calling them back 140 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 6: in the day, give us some swag? Can you can 141 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 6: you get their knee off I neck? Can you help 142 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 6: us be treated as better people? And the third thing 143 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 6: I realized that that that those lyrics are even more 144 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 6: meaningful now that the hymns that they sang for relief 145 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,199 Speaker 6: and some inspiration. We can use those things now when 146 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 6: they hear this record, that the lyrics are saying the 147 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 6: same thing that they were saying two hundred and fifty 148 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 6: years ago, help us, give us some relief. Can you 149 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 6: show us the better way? Don't leave us behind? You know? 150 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 6: And and the more I heard this song and the 151 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 6: more they sang with my view of the lyrics, it 152 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 6: was just overwhelming. I just had to stop and just 153 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 6: kind of get my tissues nearby and understand what they 154 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 6: meant and not realize that these people seventy years ago, 155 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 6: I'm pretty up in the age. They were Sandy Sayings 156 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 6: lives seventy years ago, and they were going right off 157 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 6: my head. I was just trying to get the you know. 158 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 6: And then it's just stunning. And I like to think 159 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 6: that the people who buy this disc or whatever form 160 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 6: they hear it in, it would be their Bible. You 161 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 6: want Bible by this record? Yeah, because it's mused. All 162 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:02,559 Speaker 6: those songs are dedicated to freedom and of happiness and equality. 163 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 7: Yeah. 164 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,199 Speaker 6: And then the bass sounds not bad either, sounds great. 165 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: And in another hundred years or two hundred years, I 166 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: think these songs will still have this same relevance. They 167 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: make it work, Yeah, Yeah, they're just so universally the 168 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: need to the heart of the human condition. 169 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 6: Yes, absolutely absolutely, And the voice is that just stunning. 170 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really beautiful, amazing. 171 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 6: I love it. 172 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: You grew up going to church with your mom and 173 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: your family. Where did you grow up. 174 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 6: There's a small church and in front Dom, Michigan, which 175 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 6: was a suburb suburb of Detroit back in the day. 176 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 6: So when moved to Detroit when I was thirteen or so, 177 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 6: but the church was still the same church. 178 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so it's like going back to the start. 179 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah. You know. One one of my concerns is 180 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 6: always that that people who didn't really know the history 181 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 6: of jazz didn't understand the jazz players, especially in my 182 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 6: age group. They came from the church. Yeah, the jazz 183 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 6: players who were singing the hndles when before recent Franklin 184 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 6: was born, and the Helia Jackson and the people who 185 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 6: are now really the top view of what gospel music 186 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 6: has sounded like it sounds like now. And we were 187 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 6: doing that stuff back in the day and didn't understand 188 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 6: what it was, but we were getting through the melodies 189 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 6: and mumbling the words. But we came up in that spirit, 190 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 6: that hope, that prayer, that can we get better than this? 191 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,000 Speaker 6: You know, and we were using our improvised lines to 192 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 6: ask those things that those people were saying about years ago. 193 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: Yes, the same spirit of the music and the need 194 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: to get it out. 195 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 6: Yeah, make it available. People understand what the plea was. 196 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful. 197 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 7: Bill. 198 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 6: Did you grow up in the church Not I went 199 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 6: to Presbyteria. 200 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: Different church, may but a church. I'm always curious about 201 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: people's musical influence. 202 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 10: It was more probably not the same kind of thing 203 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 10: that you were doing, but you know, those hymns and musically, 204 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 10: what I remember most about it was the organ player. 205 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 10: You know that he would play some wild stuff. But 206 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 10: also that's where I got to see Martin Luther King speak. 207 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: He came at your church. 208 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, he came to our church in nineteen sixty four. 209 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: Oh, that's incredible. 210 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 10: Talk about an inspiring person. 211 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: And do you remember how old you were, Like so 212 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: I was like twelve. Oh wow, that was my son's age. 213 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: I'm just imagining. 214 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 10: And I guess there was some story I was looking 215 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 10: up in the Denver paper and there was I guess 216 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 10: he got locked in some office before he was supposed 217 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 10: to come out to speak. 218 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 6: He got locked in some office. 219 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 10: Off to the side of the church, and they had 220 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 10: he had to climb out the window and climb down 221 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 10: the thing and then come in funny anyway. 222 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 6: Wow, I'm just thankful I got to be a little 223 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 6: bit near that. 224 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: Pretty amazing. Yeah, yeah, do you remember your impression at 225 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: that age? Did you understand the gravity in the weight 226 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: of how. 227 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 6: Well it is? 228 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 10: That important came up more in the next coming years, 229 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 10: you know, because thinking about what was happening in the 230 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 10: world and the music that was coming at me at 231 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 10: that moment, and that year nineteen sixty four, it was 232 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 10: it was two weeks after that that the Beatles were 233 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,440 Speaker 10: on the Ed Sullivan Show. You know, it was just 234 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 10: a less I guess, a couple months since John F. 235 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 10: Kennedy had been killed. All these things happened that year. 236 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 10: Martin Luther King got the Novel Peace Prize, the Civil 237 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 10: Rights Act was signed, Bob Dylan, The Times They Are 238 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 10: Changing came out, and then there's this Miles Davis record 239 00:17:56,359 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 10: that It's Miles Day in concert live at Philharmonic Hall. 240 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:07,680 Speaker 10: It was George Coleman, but Herbie Hancock, Tony Williams and 241 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 10: Ron Carter and boy, when I first heard that, to 242 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 10: this day, it remains one of the for me. It's 243 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,360 Speaker 10: just like, I don't know how human beings can get 244 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 10: even to that level of beauty, and it just I 245 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 10: don't know how to describe it. It just gives me 246 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 10: something to strive for, you know, or it gives me hope, 247 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 10: or you just realize how amazing people can be or 248 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 10: how beautiful things can be. And then to think that 249 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 10: he's right here with us now. It's wow. 250 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 6: What a music is like a miracle, you know. 251 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,920 Speaker 10: Somehow it helps me a little bit thinking about what's 252 00:18:52,960 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 10: happening now that that was rough and things are rough now. 253 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 10: And then there's these songs that just keep coming back 254 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 10: and being as relevant as they ever were, as like 255 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 10: you said, two hundred and fifty years ago, yeah, or 256 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 10: hour or it's it's we have to just somehow. 257 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 6: Hold on to that. 258 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: They give people such comfort, you know. That's how I 259 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: think of it, almost like a meditation. These these songs hit. 260 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 6: That way, you know. 261 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a they give a comfort that that is 262 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: very unique, you know and special. 263 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 6: Yeah, this I mean just the sound that. 264 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 10: Talking about the words, but the but there's the the 265 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 10: melodies take you to places, you know and lift you up. 266 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: And the simplicity of the songs also, I think, and 267 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: there's just no there's no there's there's only a straight 268 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: path with what is happening somehow, even though there's variations. 269 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: But I don't know. I just love I love these 270 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: song structures, which. 271 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 6: In a certain frame of mind because it's not as 272 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 6: complicated as it is, and they're really complicated. It's simple 273 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 6: enough that there were lyrics don't get in a way 274 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 6: of understanding what they say, and you're so overwhelmed by 275 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 6: the music that's helping you understand this. It's just a 276 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:31,120 Speaker 6: perfect picture of how to hear a Bible exactly. 277 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: It's much easier for me to digest in the song 278 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: form personally. Yeah, it's beautiful. I was wondering how you feel, 279 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: specifically coming from when you were young playing jazz at 280 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 1: a time when jazz was just becoming what it was 281 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: and being sort of, you know, one of the trailblaze 282 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: of it. What's your relationship to genre. Are you protective 283 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: of that genre specifically or do you just see music 284 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: as music? 285 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,520 Speaker 6: Well? I try to be as open minded as I can, 286 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:17,280 Speaker 6: but there's no question that jazz music and some of 287 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 6: his players have clearly influenced the world of music styles. Yeah, 288 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 6: a lot of jazz players are on the background, on 289 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 6: the background singers, background players of all the big pop records, 290 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 6: and some of the arrangers who arrange some of the 291 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 6: big pop pits are wonderful jazz players and jazz arrangers. 292 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,360 Speaker 6: They have a chance to practice their skills, not doing 293 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 6: what they do for a living, but for now adding 294 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 6: another skill to their set to being wonderful arrangements and 295 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 6: wonderful songs. I mean, I've enjoyed playing with michel Le Grant, 296 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 6: who is not a jazz player, but he's written some 297 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 6: wonderful tunes that jazz players just fall over. So I 298 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 6: think it's difficult to have a line that separates them. 299 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 6: People should look for a better ways to look for 300 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 6: the line that connects them. Yeah, and you'll find a 301 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 6: lot more choices. 302 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 9: Yeah. 303 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 1: I feel like most musicians I know don't think in 304 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: terms of genre, so it's almost a silly question. But 305 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 1: I guess I was wondering if you felt protective of 306 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: it coming from where you come from. 307 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 6: And no, I'm interested to have a chance to play 308 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 6: wherever I can. I want to spread the spread the 309 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 6: Gospels and the more very more varied topics, the more 310 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 6: varied groups I can play with. It allows me to 311 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 6: prosthesize the jazz just because I'm there with these people 312 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 6: who are not of the jazz community, but clearly they 313 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 6: know the music because they hire people who are the 314 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 6: hear on jazz records and part of their normal listening 315 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 6: for ideas and concepts. Yeah, and that mix they meld 316 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 6: of these combinations of one four or five songs to 317 00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 6: one four or five with the sharp in the bass 318 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 6: all all all the time, are no coordes and mix 319 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 6: them all from the same language skill set. It's great 320 00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 6: to see those guys manipulate their stuff to fit this sound. 321 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: Yea, And what do you think of genre? Because you're 322 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: so country pill you can get put in the jazz category, 323 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: but you're my You're like my favorite country guitar player sometimes, 324 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: you know. 325 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 10: I like mister Carter just said about trying to find 326 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 10: the line that connects it all rather than so much 327 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 10: energy goes into trying to categorize this. 328 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 6: This is this, and this is that. 329 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 10: And music has never been that way in my imagination. 330 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 10: It's it's always it's all happening all at once. And 331 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 10: you know, when you're when you're in the midst of playing, 332 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 10: you're not thinking now I'm playing exactly. Yeah, this is jet, 333 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 10: you're singing a melody and all that, all those words 334 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,840 Speaker 10: that we used to describe it, you're not. That's the 335 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 10: farthest thing from I know. 336 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: It's almost like they don't matter there for other people maybe, yeah, 337 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: I mean it's not for the musicians. 338 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 9: You know. 339 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 6: After the fact, we talk about it and we try 340 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 6: to figure out what it is. 341 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 10: But I wish more energy was put into that, like 342 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 10: oh wow, like look at the history of this and 343 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 10: look at the where this guy came from and this 344 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 10: woman came from, and where we can you know, and 345 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 10: it's all it's so connected. It's way more than you Yeah, 346 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 10: I mean, like I had a moment I like dropping 347 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 10: a like say, drop the needle in the midst of 348 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 10: a Bill Monroe song and it sounded like it sounded 349 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 10: like Duke Gallington for a second, you know, And everybody's 350 00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 10: learning from each other and bro, yeah, it's just flying 351 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 10: around and music is so amazing. Way everything is possible there, 352 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:11,919 Speaker 10: And that's the. 353 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: Funnest when you can just go wherever you want to go. 354 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't it doesn't matter. 355 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 10: And it gives us a model for how things can work. 356 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 6: You know. 357 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 10: You think I've said this so many times before. But 358 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 10: the words that we do use to try to figure 359 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 10: out what we're doing, like harmony and rhythm, and. 360 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: That's translatable into life. 361 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 4: Yeah. 362 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, if only it's so. 363 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 6: You know, I said that if everybody played the guitar, 364 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 6: there'd be no profit. 365 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: That's right, you are correct. Let's play another song. Yeah, 366 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 1: you want to try. Softly and tenderly, also from your 367 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: new record. 368 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 4: Yeah, Softly and tenderly. 369 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 2: Jesus is calling, calling for you. 370 00:26:59,320 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: And for the. 371 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 7: Pay saidly waiting. 372 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 2: Jesus is watching, watching for you. 373 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 3: For me, come home, come home, we come earnest the tenderly. 374 00:27:52,359 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 11: Jesus is calling, calling on Senna, come. 375 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 7: Come car. 376 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 4: O, you who are weary, consh. 377 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 3: Arestly, tenderly. 378 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 11: Jeesus is calling, calling a Sana come home, colling, what 379 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 11: Sena come. 380 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 2: Calling? 381 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 7: What snass come. 382 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: Pretty? 383 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 8: I liked it. 384 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: I thought it was beautiful. It's such an honor to 385 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: play with you both. Before we play one more song, 386 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask, uh, what instrument are you playing? 387 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 6: Guitar? 388 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 4: No? 389 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 7: I know what you got? 390 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 10: Well this, Oh it's a who has become a good friend, 391 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 10: a guy named Jay Black. He's you really want to 392 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 10: know all this stuff? 393 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, put it together from old So. 394 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 6: This is sort of a conglomeration of there's J. W. 395 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 10: Black built the guitar, and a guy named Jeff Callahan 396 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 10: made the pickups, which are awesome. I love the way 397 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 10: they sound, and it has a mastery bridge and big 398 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 10: spe vibrato. 399 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,440 Speaker 1: I'm with you and I'm in it. 400 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:21,960 Speaker 10: And then there's this really far out guy that lives 401 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 10: in Joshua Tree or close to Joshua Tree. 402 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 6: His name is T. K. 403 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 10: Smith and he builds guitars. But he made this pick 404 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 10: guard for this thing. It is so cool that I 405 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 10: thought this guitar should have a fancy little thing on. 406 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,880 Speaker 1: I mean that that pickguard is everything. It's amazing. 407 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 6: So it had. 408 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 10: This guitar has a whole bunch of stuff from different 409 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 10: people that I know. 410 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 9: I love it. 411 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: What sounds great? 412 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 4: You have? 413 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,400 Speaker 1: You have a ton of guitars. I'm sure. 414 00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 6: I'm afraid I have more than I do you have? 415 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: Do you go through phases where you just want to 416 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: play one all the time and then then you kind 417 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: of move on to another one? 418 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 10: Well, yeah, you find something in each one. There's different 419 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 10: overtones come out, and then that'll inspire you in a 420 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 10: certain way and then you get that in your ear 421 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 10: and then you can maybe you can pull it out 422 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:20,040 Speaker 10: of another one somehow. 423 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like they start talking to each other. 424 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: That's cool. It's like they're they're human almost. They all 425 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: have their own personality right for me? Yeah, and what 426 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: about your base? 427 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 6: I've bought it in nineteen sixty. What that's the same one? 428 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: Seriously? 429 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 6: See that's. 430 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: One and done. 431 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 6: Well, I have two. One is the pick of the 432 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 6: base I had made smaller, and I think every base 433 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 6: but needs a second base, just in cases someone bumps into. 434 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 6: It's one closer to the elevators over on it. 435 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: True. 436 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, I've been all there and then I don't see 437 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,200 Speaker 6: you come in. You know they went and went into 438 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 6: and the stairwell. But this is the same one since 439 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 6: nineteen sixty or so. 440 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: That's insane. 441 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's got some battle scars. Yeah, but it sounds 442 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 6: better every day. 443 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: I bet it does. When you got it, was it 444 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: new or old already? 445 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 4: No? 446 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 6: It was it was mid nineteen ten. Okay, I was 447 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 6: not old already, but I was working toward that goal. 448 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 4: Was it is it? Do you know? 449 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: The make Christ? 450 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 6: It's the German violin the base that was its symboled 451 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 6: in Berlin. Back in the day, they had just cross 452 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 6: country exchange of music. Music music itself, the physical parts 453 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 6: of the music sheets and the makers would make the 454 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,479 Speaker 6: make the instruments in a country and then sip them 455 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 6: over to somewhere else to be as symbol. This is 456 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 6: one of those done in nineteen ten. It's a jusic. Yeah, 457 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 6: it's it's a pretty well known name. It's it's not 458 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 6: up in the highly sought after, but it's too bad 459 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 6: because it's a really good instrument. 460 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: I know that name because I used to data base player, 461 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: so I'm aware of the jus Yeah, that's cool. And 462 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:09,439 Speaker 1: what what's on top there? 463 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,439 Speaker 6: It's called Jesus string. So you have an extra string extra, 464 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 6: it's a long extra extension up here. 465 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: Oh, it's just longer a lower string. 466 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 6: Go from E to C. 467 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: Whoa. So how often do you bust it out? 468 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 6: It depends on the tune y, Yeah, on my hands 469 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,839 Speaker 6: feel Yeah, cords are coming by too. 470 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 1: Fast, so you're not using it every every time. It's 471 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: just sort of a special special occasion. 472 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:40,520 Speaker 6: Stringth ie gets on attention to a real route, yeah, 473 00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 6: and then cords to C. 474 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: Well maybe on this one, this next song is in 475 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: c up like this is is the piccolo base smaller 476 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: than Yes, it's it's a I. 477 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 6: Call it the overgrowing shallow. One of the reasons I 478 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,080 Speaker 6: had amazed I was starting a court yet with two bases, 479 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 6: me been rolling on drums, Kenny Baron on piano, and 480 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 6: Bluster Williams on the second base. Yeah, and I wanted 481 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 6: to be in front of the band. Well, if you 482 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 6: had two bases the same size, I want people toss 483 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 6: my card and the guests who's the band leader and 484 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 6: taking bets on who's car. So to my friend in 485 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,920 Speaker 6: New Jersey, just make an instrument to and this, I 486 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 6: figure out my specifications for a smaller base, and it's 487 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,240 Speaker 6: basically I have size bass that's tuned upper fourth. 488 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: Oh so it's tuned differently. 489 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 6: Yeakay. That takes me up out of his range. Wherever 490 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 6: he's gonna play, he will not be in my register. Yeah, 491 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 6: or whoever the second bass player is. As it turns out, 492 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 6: Buster was there until they formed a group with Kenny 493 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,719 Speaker 6: and being with the the Sphere Bank the Monk Music Band. 494 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 6: Kay uh So m Lean Madison a bass player for 495 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 6: my friend and bass player for about thirty years. He 496 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 6: understands what rangers are and he's careful, uh, for all 497 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 6: these years not to get two stuff, too much stuff 498 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 6: within my register at the base so that we hear 499 00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 6: we see two basses and you hear two basses. Yeah, 500 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:00,959 Speaker 6: that's great, that is cool. 501 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: So growing up in your house, was there a lot 502 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 1: of different music? Well, you just listen to everything. 503 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 10: I mean, my parents weren't musicians, but they were always 504 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,720 Speaker 10: That's where I feel so lucky that they were always 505 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 10: supportive of me wanting to play. And then also I 506 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 10: feel lucky that in the public school system there was 507 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 10: when I was in fourth grade, they come around and 508 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 10: they ask all the kids if they want to play 509 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 10: an instrument, and that was just a normal part of 510 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 10: the education that they thought music was actually important for people. Yeah, 511 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 10: and so I started on clarinet in the school music 512 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 10: program and just thankful for that. 513 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: That's lucky. 514 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:48,479 Speaker 6: Yeah. 515 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: And as a kid, did you study other instruments? What 516 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: did you start on? 517 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,120 Speaker 6: Well, I'm kind of like a teacher came in with 518 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 6: these instruments on the table at school at school, but 519 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 6: through the fourth grade me the ten or eleven, I said, 520 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 6: said that she's going to start in an orchestra, and 521 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,399 Speaker 6: she said, children, come up to the table and pick 522 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,120 Speaker 6: out an instrument that you think you want to spend 523 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 6: some time with. There's a couple of trumpets and maybe 524 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 6: a trombone, a couple of string instruments, and the chillo. 525 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 6: And it just seemed to me the chillo had the 526 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,280 Speaker 6: two things. It was easiest to make a terrible sound, 527 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 6: and it's the easiest to get a sound on it all. 528 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 6: And I said, I think I like this one. Can 529 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 6: I ask my parents if I can keep this at home? 530 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:38,840 Speaker 6: I said, of course, you can have it, you know. 531 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 6: So we worked it out and I got very good 532 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,880 Speaker 6: at it, and I still pick it up right now 533 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 6: and in fool people and amazed myself. I still had 534 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 6: the skills, but as I got better playing the instrument 535 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 6: and looked forward to being a I don't know what 536 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 6: a major player was, but somebody was really good. They 537 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,919 Speaker 6: call them when you're thirteen to fourteen. I just wanted 538 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,239 Speaker 6: to be one of the good players. I want to 539 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 6: be the best player I could. And my parents encourage 540 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 6: us to follow our dreams and help us when they could, 541 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 6: and make sure we got to the concerts and make 542 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 6: sure we heard certain acts that I wanted to hear. 543 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: That's great. 544 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,759 Speaker 6: Make sure we could get to ford the lessons of 545 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 6: better teachers. As I got better, everything went up. So 546 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 6: they were instrumental and assuring me that I could determine 547 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 6: what I wanted to be, that no one else could 548 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 6: do that for me. 549 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,600 Speaker 1: It's really lucky also to start. 550 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,760 Speaker 6: Hearing that stuff back in those days, in the forties 551 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 6: and fifties when that was clearly not the vibe of 552 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 6: the nation of the nations, and to be able to 553 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 6: see the results of other people doing it and having 554 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,320 Speaker 6: to be a part of that. His history of watching 555 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 6: these things take place despite those things that are not 556 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,279 Speaker 6: in their favor. You know, I got playing tellers and 557 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 6: I got to where I got some calls and stuff. 558 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 6: As a matter of fact, when they that the last actor, 559 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 6: you know, in the Coba Cabana in New York, the 560 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 6: last actor player there was Sammy Davis Junior. And if 561 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 6: the old player who was the co who was a 562 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,359 Speaker 6: contractor I knew, called me one day and said, look, 563 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,120 Speaker 6: the last Trobler player of this band is not available. 564 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 6: Can you do the two three shows? So yeah, then 565 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,799 Speaker 6: we just I said, but football is and whole notes 566 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,840 Speaker 6: that's how I can do that. So I played the 567 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 6: last show at the Coba combanda Sama Davis Junior. 568 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. 569 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, that's my story. 570 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. 571 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 6: And as I got there in bed, I realized they 572 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 6: were telling me that it was you gotta get better, kids, 573 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,480 Speaker 6: you got I worked on with that concept cause I 574 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 6: was determined to get where what I thought I I 575 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,200 Speaker 6: belonged in the playing good category wherever that was, you know. 576 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 6: And as I got through college, I was told that 577 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 6: by a major conductor that he loved way I played 578 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 6: in my interest, but the cot by the orchestra at 579 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 6: that time weren't not interested in having people of color, 580 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 6: you know, at along. At the same any, I was 581 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 6: playing in a house band where big jazz acts came 582 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,400 Speaker 6: through and they we were back a solo player sunny 583 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 6: stared for one, a slam galic, you know, and they 584 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 6: would say, well, you got some skills case you come 585 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 6: to New York because they need good bass players. It's 586 00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 6: when I graduated in June of nineteen fifty nine. I 587 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,000 Speaker 6: picked up my bag and then Chuck Man johned it, 588 00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 6: got into a car and we drove to New York 589 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,600 Speaker 6: with my personal belongings and I got out with my wife, 590 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 6: got a place to stay in. I still had that 591 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,239 Speaker 6: chip on my shoulder. I belong here, I've belong here, 592 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 6: I belong here. I'm still doing that. Z. That's amazing 593 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 6: when these songs remind me of those days. 594 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet when did you switch to bass? 595 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 6: My senior year in high school? The spring of nineteen, 596 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:55,279 Speaker 6: spring of eighteen for it's still so far back the 597 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:02,040 Speaker 6: spring of eight of nineteen fifty five. I was a 598 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 6: senior in high school. 599 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:08,800 Speaker 1: Time flags. 600 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, it just seems so far so. 601 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, it goes fast, right. 602 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's nice to be in the current time with 603 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,480 Speaker 6: you and Bill this season. People really love music and 604 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 6: have made their life at Journey to play some great melodies. 605 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 6: I love that kind of stuff. 606 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a pleasure. Wow, well thanks for bringing that 607 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:41,040 Speaker 1: base down here. Yeah, let's try nervous of you. Yeah okay, wow, 608 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:42,439 Speaker 1: h m hmm. 609 00:42:17,760 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 9: It's not the peerl moon that excites me, that thrills. 610 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,040 Speaker 7: And enlights me. 611 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:33,239 Speaker 2: Oh no, it's just the NANESSU. 612 00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 11: It isn't your sweet conversation that brings this in season. 613 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:53,920 Speaker 2: Oh no, it's just the nearess. 614 00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 7: So when you're in my. 615 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 4: And I feel you so close. 616 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 6: To me. 617 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 9: On my. 618 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 7: Les Streams came to. 619 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 2: I need no soft Flood's two inch me. 620 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 7: Only me. The word told you ever so tired. 621 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 2: And feel and the nurse, the nearness of the. 622 00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 6: Creating. 623 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,359 Speaker 1: I went for the high note. Oh that was great. 624 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:10,840 Speaker 1: I loved it. Well, that was pleasure. Thank you. I 625 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: guess you just came back from Japan. You got any 626 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:16,480 Speaker 1: tours coming up? 627 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 6: I'm trying to avoid them. 628 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:19,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it, I hear you. 629 00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,279 Speaker 6: I want to know what the refrigerator is every night? 630 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's hard to travel now, it's it's difficult. 631 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:29,439 Speaker 6: Yeah, get the airport three hours early. 632 00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:34,040 Speaker 1: No, that's the hard part. The playing is the fun part, yes, right, yeah. 633 00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:35,799 Speaker 1: Have you been touring a lot? 634 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,520 Speaker 10: You're always playing, right, Yeah, But there was a time 635 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,400 Speaker 10: when you'd be in New York and you'd play for 636 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:44,360 Speaker 10: like a month in the same club. 637 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 6: You just can't imagine what. 638 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 10: What the effect that would have on the music, you know, 639 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 10: to we talked about playing four five nights in a row, 640 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 10: which is amazing, But to play for four or five 641 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 10: weeks and go home every night and. 642 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,360 Speaker 6: I I don't think different than the order of the 643 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:07,839 Speaker 6: notes for the next night. Yeah, yeah, it's uh back 644 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,799 Speaker 6: in the day when I was younger in the sets 645 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 6: for a long way. But I work with Sonny Rollins 646 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,799 Speaker 6: and early sixties and we worked six weeks in the row. 647 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:16,359 Speaker 1: Yeah. 648 00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:19,359 Speaker 6: And before that, I worked with the Gil Evans Big 649 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 6: Band for seven weeks, sixty six weeks from one place 650 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:25,440 Speaker 6: called the Jazz Standard, before the Jazz Standard, you know, 651 00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 6: and freelancing in New York, you would work for a 652 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,319 Speaker 6: whole seven week, but all two weeks of different clubs. Yeah, 653 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,839 Speaker 6: and I missed that, not just the chance to play, 654 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,359 Speaker 6: but a chance to hear other guys play the community. Yeah, 655 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,880 Speaker 6: you understand. You get that, you get develop a fan base, 656 00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:46,880 Speaker 6: you develop a library, you develop a sound, you develop 657 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:48,759 Speaker 6: friends in the band. I mean, it's just a way 658 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:53,640 Speaker 6: to make music even more difficult but more fun. Every night. 659 00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:55,560 Speaker 6: You got a chance to play with these great guys 660 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,439 Speaker 6: who would helped me get better, wonderful feeling. I missed 661 00:46:58,480 --> 00:46:59,480 Speaker 6: that in New York now. 662 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:05,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's changed, it's changed. Well, thank you you 663 00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,239 Speaker 1: are both. I really appreciate it. It's so nice to 664 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:13,040 Speaker 1: play and hang and meet you finally and see you again. Yeah, 665 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: thank you more. Please this great, Thanks so much for 666 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:24,239 Speaker 1: us thank you, Thank you so much for listening. Oh 667 00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 1: that was so funny, beautiful, great humans. 668 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 6: I loved it. 669 00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:29,200 Speaker 1: It was really interesting. 670 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:32,759 Speaker 5: I mean they could there's so many more stories there. 671 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,400 Speaker 1: We just that was a tip of the icebay. 672 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,400 Speaker 6: But we got the good stuff. 673 00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,839 Speaker 1: I played with Ron Carter. Oh my god, no big deal. 674 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,560 Speaker 4: He brought you an h. He brought me an H. 675 00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,319 Speaker 1: That was the funniest. If you want to know which 676 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,400 Speaker 1: songs we did in this episode, the first one was 677 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,960 Speaker 1: Sweet Sweet Spirit, and that was from the album that 678 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,880 Speaker 1: Ron Carter just released earlier this year in a collaboration 679 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,719 Speaker 1: with Rickey Dillard, titled Sweet Sweet Spirit. The second song 680 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,800 Speaker 1: we did was called Softly and Tenderly from the same album, 681 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,759 Speaker 1: Sweet Sweet Spirit. The third song we did was the 682 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:06,520 Speaker 1: Nearness of You, and that's a classic jazz standard written 683 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:11,440 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty eight by Hogy Carmichael and Ned Washington, 684 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,400 Speaker 1: and it's been on countless albums, but I recorded it 685 00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,720 Speaker 1: on my first album, which came out in two thousand 686 00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:21,320 Speaker 1: and two. Special thanks to Ron Carter and Bill Frizel 687 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 1: for joining us today. We'll be back next week with Sasami. 688 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: Norah Jones is playing Along is a production of iHeart Podcasts. 689 00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,960 Speaker 1: Visit Nora Jones channel and be sure to subscribe while 690 00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 1: you're there. I'm your host, Nora Jones. This episode was 691 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:39,600 Speaker 1: recorded by Matt Marrinellie, mixed by Jamie Landry. Audio post 692 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,919 Speaker 1: production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by Eliza Frye, 693 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,560 Speaker 1: Photography by Shervin Linez. Produced by Nora Jones and Sarah Oda. 694 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 1: Executive producers Aaron wan Kaufman and Jordan Rundog. Marketing lead 695 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:56,360 Speaker 1: Alison Kanter Graber. It's like I got a mouthful of 696 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,160 Speaker 1: marbles today. It's the allergy medicing 697 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:01,439 Speaker 2: You good.