WEBVTT - Native Erasure and Invisibility is Solvable 0:00:15.076 --> 0:00:25.276 Pushkin. This is solvable. I'm Ronald Young Jr. These representations 0:00:25.276 --> 0:00:27.756 are more than just like it makes me personally as 0:00:27.756 --> 0:00:31.436 a Native person, feel bad. It's actually a lot deeper 0:00:31.476 --> 0:00:36.596 than that. Our existence as Native people really challenges the 0:00:36.636 --> 0:00:40.076 fundamental values of what we know as the United States. 0:00:43.396 --> 0:00:46.196 The existence of Native people and the challenges to the 0:00:46.196 --> 0:00:49.316 fundamental values of the United States partially came to a 0:00:49.356 --> 0:00:53.036 head in July twenty twenty when the Washington football team 0:00:53.076 --> 0:00:56.156 finally decided to change its mascot and name from a 0:00:56.196 --> 0:01:00.196 harmful and violent slur against Native people. While this was 0:01:00.196 --> 0:01:03.996 a highly visible and highly publicized move, applauded by many, 0:01:04.116 --> 0:01:07.076 for Native folks, this fight is about a lot more 0:01:07.276 --> 0:01:11.396 than professional sports teams making symbols and icons without permission. 0:01:12.316 --> 0:01:15.796 When we define it as just taking from a culture 0:01:15.876 --> 0:01:20.076 that is not your own, that misses the whole power 0:01:20.516 --> 0:01:22.996 piece of it. The United States has a long and 0:01:23.116 --> 0:01:27.156 violent history of oppressing Native and Indigenous people. There are 0:01:27.196 --> 0:01:30.916 over five hundred and seventy four federally recognized tribes in 0:01:30.956 --> 0:01:34.556 the United States and many others not recognize by the 0:01:34.596 --> 0:01:38.236 federal government. That represents a lot of land and a 0:01:38.276 --> 0:01:43.276 lot of life and beyond the government. In television, film fashion, 0:01:43.876 --> 0:01:48.076 native culture is regularly depicted or appropriated without an eye 0:01:48.156 --> 0:01:53.356 toward accurate or respectful representation. Doctor Adrian Keane thinks it's 0:01:53.396 --> 0:01:56.396 time for a shift, and that the shift is both 0:01:56.516 --> 0:02:01.676 urgent and possible, moving the conversation from just sort of 0:02:01.716 --> 0:02:07.396 like representation matters for representation's sake, to representation matters because 0:02:08.076 --> 0:02:10.356 you need to know of the people who's land you 0:02:10.356 --> 0:02:13.036 are on. You need to know about your relationship to 0:02:13.156 --> 0:02:16.996 this land. And for Indigenous folks, our identities as indigenous 0:02:17.036 --> 0:02:19.956 are so deeply tied to being from the land and 0:02:20.036 --> 0:02:22.636 from a place that it's kind of one and the same. 0:02:24.316 --> 0:02:32.836 Sionagad Adrian Keene docadi squad de la juila Diega tongva 0:02:34.316 --> 0:02:36.956 di Gega. I am Adrian Keene. I'm a citizen of 0:02:36.996 --> 0:02:41.436 the Cherokee Nation, and I'm a Cherokee writer and scholar 0:02:41.556 --> 0:02:46.636 and author of Notable Native People. Indigenous erasure and invisibility 0:02:46.916 --> 0:03:00.396 is a solvable problem. So I know that you grew 0:03:00.516 --> 0:03:03.676 up in California, but you grew up around a lot 0:03:03.756 --> 0:03:05.996 of non Cherokee folks and a lot of around a 0:03:06.076 --> 0:03:07.796 lot of white folks. Can you tell me a little 0:03:07.796 --> 0:03:10.956 bit about that experience. Yeah, so I am a citizen 0:03:10.996 --> 0:03:13.236 of the Cherokee Nation, which is based in what is 0:03:13.276 --> 0:03:17.156 currently known as Oklahoma, and that is where my grandma 0:03:17.276 --> 0:03:21.676 grew up with her siblings on like rural Cherokee allotment land. 0:03:22.236 --> 0:03:25.076 And then she moved to California when she was eighteen 0:03:25.596 --> 0:03:29.196 and met my Armenian grandpa when she first moved there, 0:03:29.356 --> 0:03:33.676 and they got married and she stayed in California the 0:03:33.756 --> 0:03:35.876 rest of her life. She's still alive, she's ninety four. 0:03:36.276 --> 0:03:38.196 That's how I ended up in California. But I grew 0:03:38.276 --> 0:03:41.036 up in San Diego, which is Kumiai homelands, but that 0:03:41.236 --> 0:03:43.556 was not even something that I was aware of. So 0:03:43.796 --> 0:03:46.436 I grew up completely surrounded by non natives, and as 0:03:46.516 --> 0:03:50.196 someone who's very like white coating, white passing, it was 0:03:50.596 --> 0:03:54.116 so easy to be just completely invisible and not receive 0:03:54.276 --> 0:03:58.196 any narratives at all about Native existence, especially with the 0:03:58.276 --> 0:04:03.276 California state curriculum around Natives is like awful in elementary school, 0:04:03.436 --> 0:04:07.916 high school. So yeah, just never received any messages about 0:04:07.956 --> 0:04:11.636 the continued existence of Native people. When do you think 0:04:11.636 --> 0:04:13.636 you started to connect with your identity as as a 0:04:13.716 --> 0:04:16.036 Native person yourself, Like when do you do you have 0:04:16.116 --> 0:04:19.116 an earliest memory when that started to happen for you. Yeah, 0:04:19.196 --> 0:04:21.076 I mean I think I always knew that I was 0:04:21.276 --> 0:04:23.756 Native and knew that I was Cherokee, but it wasn't 0:04:23.836 --> 0:04:27.196 something that I really understood what that meant. And I 0:04:27.276 --> 0:04:30.276 have like a few sort of small formative moments when 0:04:30.476 --> 0:04:34.716 I was really young, Like I remember, in I guess 0:04:34.756 --> 0:04:39.316 it was fifth grade, we were doing the Native American 0:04:39.836 --> 0:04:42.676 unit in our class, and our homework was to go 0:04:42.876 --> 0:04:46.716 home and come up with a quote unquote Indian name, 0:04:47.196 --> 0:04:52.836 which was the like very stereotypical adjective like plus noun idea, 0:04:53.436 --> 0:05:00.476 you know, like running elk or whatever. And I remember 0:05:01.676 --> 0:05:04.516 I remember like knowing that I could do the assignment 0:05:04.716 --> 0:05:07.716 and that that would be fine, but like feeling uncomfortable. 0:05:07.836 --> 0:05:10.476 But I was young and not really you know, activisty, 0:05:10.956 --> 0:05:13.356 so I didn't know what to do. And my mom 0:05:13.596 --> 0:05:17.596 was like, well, why don't you say your great grandma's name, 0:05:17.876 --> 0:05:21.316 Like why don't you just say, like Mona May McDaniel 0:05:21.596 --> 0:05:24.676 is your Indian name, because that's your family and that's 0:05:24.676 --> 0:05:26.756 where it comes from. And I was like okay. So 0:05:26.916 --> 0:05:29.876 I remember standing up in class and everyone had done 0:05:29.876 --> 0:05:34.116 the like running antelope or whatever because they're fast and whatever. 0:05:34.396 --> 0:05:37.476 And I stood up and was like, my name's Monamey 0:05:37.556 --> 0:05:41.356 McDaniel because that's my great grandma and she's Cherokee. And 0:05:41.836 --> 0:05:45.356 I remember the teacher looking at me like uh okay, 0:05:45.716 --> 0:05:48.276 and I sat down and everyone just like continued on 0:05:48.396 --> 0:05:50.636 with the activity. But that was kind of one of 0:05:50.716 --> 0:05:53.116 my earliest memories of being like, no, like this is 0:05:53.276 --> 0:05:57.356 me as well, like it's I'm not that separated from it. 0:05:57.516 --> 0:06:01.116 But it really wasn't until honestly, like college time, that 0:06:01.236 --> 0:06:04.876 I really had the opportunity to engage more deeply because 0:06:04.956 --> 0:06:08.396 I was an adult with the ability to travel and 0:06:08.556 --> 0:06:10.956 to do my own research and to ask the right 0:06:11.076 --> 0:06:13.116 questions of my family and that kind of stuff. So 0:06:13.516 --> 0:06:16.876 it took a long time because the erasure is real 0:06:17.156 --> 0:06:21.596 and colonization has deeply affected all of us. I remember 0:06:21.876 --> 0:06:24.076 one year of elementary school they had us do an 0:06:24.076 --> 0:06:26.676 assignment where for Thanksgiving where we had to take the 0:06:26.716 --> 0:06:29.516 paper bags and turning to vest and you did a 0:06:29.556 --> 0:06:32.796 headdress thing. And I remember like, even as a kid, 0:06:32.876 --> 0:06:35.556 just being like, it just seems weird that every single Indian, 0:06:35.636 --> 0:06:37.756 as we were saying at the time was all the same, 0:06:38.196 --> 0:06:40.636 and I hated that at the time, but I didn't 0:06:40.676 --> 0:06:42.356 know why. I was like something about this, but I 0:06:42.396 --> 0:06:44.836 couldn't put my figure on it. All of the depictions 0:06:44.876 --> 0:06:48.996 that I saw of Native folks were always negative, whether 0:06:49.076 --> 0:06:52.396 in the media and music whatever around us. What was 0:06:52.436 --> 0:06:54.596 it like for you besides having an experience like that 0:06:54.716 --> 0:06:56.676 yourself in elementary school, but what was it like for 0:06:56.756 --> 0:07:00.676 you to see yourself depicted or to see Native folks 0:07:00.756 --> 0:07:04.076 depicted in that way in media? Growing up? There was 0:07:04.396 --> 0:07:09.916 not a single positive reference that I remember in media 0:07:10.196 --> 0:07:13.756 or popular culture or anything. Like I grew up with 0:07:13.876 --> 0:07:16.276 Peter Pan and like the whole like what makes the 0:07:16.356 --> 0:07:19.316 Red Man red? And then we got Disney Spokehonists, which 0:07:19.356 --> 0:07:23.396 everyone thought was a sort of good depiction of natives, 0:07:23.476 --> 0:07:26.636 and it did make some limited strides, But then that 0:07:26.796 --> 0:07:29.436 meant that everyone would just when I said I was Native, 0:07:29.516 --> 0:07:31.516 would like sing Colors of the Wind to me or 0:07:31.636 --> 0:07:35.196 like whatever, so they're really there was such a big 0:07:35.276 --> 0:07:37.476 disconnect for me where I would look at my family 0:07:37.636 --> 0:07:40.796 like in Oklahoma and my grandma and be like, this 0:07:41.116 --> 0:07:46.476 isn't represented in anything that I see. These messages don't 0:07:47.276 --> 0:07:50.596 resonate with anything that I know about my family and 0:07:50.756 --> 0:07:54.556 where I come from. It wasn't even really until graduate 0:07:54.636 --> 0:07:57.676 school where it all kind of came together, and I 0:07:57.876 --> 0:08:01.076 realized that because I moved from California to the East Coast, 0:08:01.196 --> 0:08:05.476 and in California, I mean where I went to undergrad 0:08:05.516 --> 0:08:08.436 there was a very large Native population on campus. We 0:08:08.516 --> 0:08:10.836 had the large student run of pow Out in the US, 0:08:11.156 --> 0:08:14.516 and there was a Native American Studies department, and so 0:08:14.636 --> 0:08:16.876 there was at least an awareness of my classmates that 0:08:16.956 --> 0:08:21.476 like Natives existed in contemporary times and were their classmates 0:08:21.516 --> 0:08:23.716 and their friends and that kind of thing. But when 0:08:23.756 --> 0:08:26.476 I moved to the East Coast, it was absolute erasure. 0:08:26.796 --> 0:08:29.596 And so being in grad school and I was at Harvard, 0:08:29.676 --> 0:08:33.556 which you know, is this bastion of knowledge and everything, 0:08:33.756 --> 0:08:38.236 and to have faculty and fellow students in my doctoral 0:08:38.316 --> 0:08:40.396 program tell me to my face that they had never 0:08:40.516 --> 0:08:44.276 met a Native person before. Or to walk around Harvard 0:08:44.316 --> 0:08:46.796 Square and see we had an urban outfitters and that's 0:08:46.916 --> 0:08:50.276 where my blog Native Appropriations came from, was walking through 0:08:50.476 --> 0:08:54.796 urban outfitters and seeing just all of the like stereotypical 0:08:54.996 --> 0:08:59.596 and culturally appropriated stuff, and there are still plenty tons 0:08:59.676 --> 0:09:01.796 of Native people on the East Coast, but it's just 0:09:01.996 --> 0:09:05.316 like such a deep invisibility that I hadn't ever experienced. 0:09:05.916 --> 0:09:08.556 So to me, that's where the connection was finally made, 0:09:08.596 --> 0:09:11.236 where I was like, these representations are more than just 0:09:11.436 --> 0:09:14.236 like it makes me personally as a Native person feel bad. 0:09:14.676 --> 0:09:18.636 It's actually a lot deeper than that. Our existence as 0:09:18.756 --> 0:09:23.916 Native people really challenges the fundamental values of what we 0:09:24.076 --> 0:09:27.916 know as the United States, and so it goes all 0:09:27.996 --> 0:09:30.876 the way to our origins. Let's talk a little bit 0:09:30.876 --> 0:09:34.436 about your blog, Native Appropriations. You started that almost twelve 0:09:34.476 --> 0:09:37.676 years ago, and you mentioned starting it after the reaction 0:09:37.716 --> 0:09:39.636 to the things you were saying in culture, especially in 0:09:40.076 --> 0:09:43.796 urban outfitters. How's that work resonated amongst folks. I know 0:09:43.876 --> 0:09:46.276 you have a large following, but was this a useful 0:09:46.316 --> 0:09:50.316 tool to get people to see you to feel seeing Yeah, 0:09:50.436 --> 0:09:54.196 it was wild. I started it solely as a kind 0:09:54.196 --> 0:09:58.516 of like personal project. I mean back in two thousand 0:09:58.516 --> 0:10:00.356 and ten when I started it, everybody had a blog 0:10:00.476 --> 0:10:01.956 like that was the thing we were all doing. It 0:10:02.116 --> 0:10:06.196 wasn't a rare thing to the blog. Yeah, it was 0:10:06.276 --> 0:10:10.636 the height of the personal blogging revolution. But for me. 0:10:11.036 --> 0:10:12.596 I wanted it to be a place where I was 0:10:12.636 --> 0:10:15.876 just going to catalog these misrepresentations and sort of have 0:10:16.076 --> 0:10:18.836 a place where I could point to it and be like, 0:10:18.956 --> 0:10:21.796 look at how ubiquitous this is, look at how deep 0:10:21.876 --> 0:10:24.636 it runs. And then as I was doing it, I 0:10:24.756 --> 0:10:27.716 realized that I myself didn't even really have the language 0:10:27.756 --> 0:10:32.116 to talk about why saying like this makes me uncomfortable 0:10:32.276 --> 0:10:35.236 wasn't enough. So then it kind of forced me to 0:10:35.356 --> 0:10:39.756 start articulating the language around this is harmful for these reasons. 0:10:40.356 --> 0:10:42.436 And part of the reason I wanted to do it 0:10:42.636 --> 0:10:46.996 is that I'm someone who is very uncomfortable with direct confrontation, 0:10:47.516 --> 0:10:50.236 which surprises some people because in the early days of 0:10:50.236 --> 0:10:52.396 the blog, I was super forceful with what I was saying, 0:10:52.476 --> 0:10:55.956 like very confrontational, like calling people out right and left. 0:10:56.316 --> 0:10:58.996 But in real life I'm an introvert who is very 0:10:59.036 --> 0:11:01.876 shy and has a hard time with that. So I 0:11:01.996 --> 0:11:04.556 wanted to create something that people could just send a 0:11:04.676 --> 0:11:07.916 blog post to their boss or to a friend, or 0:11:08.636 --> 0:11:12.916 to a faculty member or something to explain a feeling 0:11:12.996 --> 0:11:16.836 that they were having without having to say it in 0:11:16.956 --> 0:11:20.716 the perfect words in the moment. And why these images, 0:11:20.916 --> 0:11:25.836 why cultural appropriation is harmful or hurtful, and how to 0:11:25.996 --> 0:11:28.956 move past it. When I started, I was entering into 0:11:28.996 --> 0:11:32.636 a conversation that existed, Like I wasn't the first one. 0:11:32.916 --> 0:11:35.916 I was building upon the legacy of activists who came 0:11:35.996 --> 0:11:39.156 before me, like Suzanne Shone Hard Joe and like all 0:11:39.236 --> 0:11:42.676 the amazing largely Native women who had been fighting against 0:11:42.796 --> 0:11:47.956 Native mascot simist representations for decades. But the conversation around 0:11:47.996 --> 0:11:52.236 cultural appropriation was still pretty new then in twenty and ten, 0:11:52.316 --> 0:11:54.636 Like it was still an academic e term that had 0:11:54.676 --> 0:11:58.116 come out of anthropology and wasn't really in the mainstream. 0:11:58.236 --> 0:12:02.196 So to see the impact of that conversation now, to 0:12:02.636 --> 0:12:05.996 see every single day there's some headline about cultural appropriation 0:12:06.476 --> 0:12:09.916 is wild to me, Like that was not a conversation 0:12:10.036 --> 0:12:13.876 that existed a decade ago. To see that is really amazing. 0:12:27.156 --> 0:12:31.236 Let's talk about appropriation. Would you talk about specifically how 0:12:31.396 --> 0:12:35.636 it reinforces systems of power and actively erases Native culture? 0:12:35.876 --> 0:12:39.596 Absolutely so. I think a lot of the conversation about 0:12:39.636 --> 0:12:43.596 cultural appropriation misses out on some of the key parts 0:12:43.636 --> 0:12:47.476 of it. When we define it as just taking from 0:12:47.516 --> 0:12:51.316 a culture that is not your own. That misses the 0:12:51.436 --> 0:12:56.516 whole power piece of it. And so for Indigenous people specifically, 0:12:56.756 --> 0:13:01.196 we're living in a settler colonial society. Colonization was not 0:13:01.356 --> 0:13:04.996 something that happened a long time ago and now we're 0:13:05.036 --> 0:13:09.676 past it. Like colonization is every structure that we live in, 0:13:09.836 --> 0:13:12.876 every structure we interact with, like the fact we're speaking 0:13:12.916 --> 0:13:14.876 English right now, like all of these things. We are 0:13:15.036 --> 0:13:19.116 in an active settler colonial society. So that power structure 0:13:19.356 --> 0:13:23.476 of the colonizer and the colonized still deeply exists in 0:13:23.916 --> 0:13:28.436 everything that we do. So I have written about smudge 0:13:28.516 --> 0:13:32.716 kits and the fact that white sage is being sold everywhere. 0:13:32.956 --> 0:13:36.956 And cultural appropriation is not just about like that's an 0:13:37.076 --> 0:13:39.756 uncomfortable thing or like that's something that we've been working on. 0:13:39.956 --> 0:13:43.596 It's not acknowledging the systems of power that are in place. 0:13:44.236 --> 0:13:48.596 It's not allowing Indigenous peoples the power to represent ourselves 0:13:48.716 --> 0:13:52.196 in the way that we want to be represented. Native 0:13:52.476 --> 0:13:57.476 spiritual practices were prohibited by law until nineteen seventy eight. 0:13:58.076 --> 0:14:00.116 That wasn't that long ago. Like I was born in 0:14:00.236 --> 0:14:02.836 nineteen eighty five, Like that really was not that long ago. 0:14:03.436 --> 0:14:06.356 So before that we could be like fined or sent 0:14:06.476 --> 0:14:11.716 to jail or insane asylums for practicing our religion, our spirituality, 0:14:12.156 --> 0:14:15.036 and so now to see those things in stores or 0:14:15.796 --> 0:14:20.116 oliver Etsy or whatever, it is completely ignores that history 0:14:20.396 --> 0:14:23.156 and doesn't acknowledge the fact that this is something we're 0:14:23.236 --> 0:14:27.756 actively having to protect and reclaim. So there are plenty 0:14:27.836 --> 0:14:30.596 of things that Native folks are willing to share and 0:14:30.996 --> 0:14:34.516 are very active about sharing and are very open about sharing, 0:14:34.956 --> 0:14:37.196 but there are certain things that we should be able 0:14:37.276 --> 0:14:39.476 to have the power to say that's just for folks 0:14:39.556 --> 0:14:42.276 within the community. You know, as a black person, I 0:14:42.356 --> 0:14:44.996 think that's that's always a tough conversation to have with 0:14:45.156 --> 0:14:47.516 anyone when you talk about culture or in your cases, 0:14:47.796 --> 0:14:50.876 some of the spiritual practices that are important, and it 0:14:50.956 --> 0:14:53.116 seems like there's a lack of education there from the 0:14:53.356 --> 0:14:55.676 folks who are taking from the dominant culture, who are 0:14:55.756 --> 0:14:58.236 taking from these subcultures or from these cultures that they're 0:14:58.276 --> 0:15:01.636 unfamiliar with. One part of fixing this could be found 0:15:01.756 --> 0:15:03.596 in education. And I see there's a lot of debate 0:15:03.716 --> 0:15:07.316 right now about talking about black folks in history and 0:15:07.476 --> 0:15:10.916 what that looks like to each proper history to teach 0:15:11.396 --> 0:15:14.516 where black folks were in the place of history. What 0:15:14.636 --> 0:15:17.036 does that look like for Native folks? What does it 0:15:17.156 --> 0:15:20.756 look like to reinsert Native culture and Native history into 0:15:20.916 --> 0:15:24.316 the larger American historical narrative and the world historical narrative. 0:15:24.556 --> 0:15:29.996 There is so much space for being able to do 0:15:30.156 --> 0:15:32.836 that work, because right now the narrative that we do 0:15:32.996 --> 0:15:36.756 learn in schools is so limited and so one sided. 0:15:37.156 --> 0:15:40.436 And I think the challenge is that that history does 0:15:40.516 --> 0:15:43.076 not paint much like the black history in the US 0:15:43.156 --> 0:15:45.436 does not paint the US in a good light. It 0:15:45.516 --> 0:15:49.156 does not, But I mean, the United States would not 0:15:49.356 --> 0:15:52.276 exist without the genocide of indigenous people. And so I 0:15:52.316 --> 0:15:54.236 think that's where a lot of the challenge comes from, 0:15:54.316 --> 0:15:56.356 is that if you start unpacking this history, it's not 0:15:56.996 --> 0:16:01.156 a good and positive history. But the work I want 0:16:01.156 --> 0:16:05.676 to do is not just dwelling on these like horrific 0:16:05.796 --> 0:16:11.236 acts of the past, but also the ongoing resistance and 0:16:12.676 --> 0:16:17.236 amazing work of Indigenous people all throughout these types of 0:16:17.356 --> 0:16:22.116 history that were so devastating for indigenous people, there have 0:16:22.356 --> 0:16:27.916 always been Native folks working for change, working for cultural reclamation, 0:16:28.156 --> 0:16:31.716 working for protection of lands and waters. And to me, 0:16:32.436 --> 0:16:36.876 a way to bring non natives into the conversation is 0:16:36.996 --> 0:16:40.556 to focus on those stories of resilience and strength and 0:16:40.756 --> 0:16:44.996 let people see that. Well, we can talk about Sarah Winnemucca, 0:16:45.116 --> 0:16:49.996 who was a Piute translator and go between settlers and 0:16:50.596 --> 0:16:53.876 her community, and the amazing work that she did, and 0:16:54.076 --> 0:16:57.676 how she was an activist and really protected her community, 0:16:58.116 --> 0:17:01.396 and through her story learn about all of those horrible 0:17:01.476 --> 0:17:04.436 policies that the US was inflicting against her people, the 0:17:04.956 --> 0:17:07.676 removals of her people from their homelands, and the things 0:17:07.716 --> 0:17:10.076 that she was fighting against. We can learn about that 0:17:10.116 --> 0:17:13.596 painful history through the strength and resilience of someone like 0:17:13.716 --> 0:17:16.436 Sarah Winnemucca. I mean, we as humans like to connect 0:17:16.476 --> 0:17:18.396 with other humans, so I think that there's a way 0:17:18.636 --> 0:17:22.156 to use those stories as a way to bring other 0:17:22.196 --> 0:17:26.396 folks into the conversation. Speaking of stories, you just published 0:17:26.436 --> 0:17:29.676 a book called Notable Native People, and in it there 0:17:29.716 --> 0:17:33.316 are so many names and stories that you are bringing 0:17:33.356 --> 0:17:36.116 to the forefront and allowing us to kind of round 0:17:36.156 --> 0:17:40.356 out history. How far do you think that work like 0:17:40.516 --> 0:17:42.676 this needs to go and does it only need to 0:17:42.716 --> 0:17:46.676 come from Native people. It can't just be the work 0:17:46.716 --> 0:17:50.396 of Native people's. Everyone who is on the lands in 0:17:50.476 --> 0:17:53.716 what is currently known as the US is on indigenous land, 0:17:54.316 --> 0:17:57.676 and you have a responsibility as a guest on those 0:17:57.756 --> 0:18:01.116 lands to form a good relationship with the land and 0:18:01.196 --> 0:18:04.916 the people from that land. It's imperative that non native 0:18:04.916 --> 0:18:07.036 folks begin to do this work on their own too, 0:18:07.156 --> 0:18:11.956 of uncovering those stories of why the curriculum is so bad, 0:18:12.156 --> 0:18:15.436 or why they only learned about Sitting Bull and Geronimo 0:18:15.596 --> 0:18:20.236 and not the millions more Native stories, and why most 0:18:20.316 --> 0:18:23.356 of the histories that we learn and in the eighteen hundreds. 0:18:23.516 --> 0:18:25.676 And that was also what I was really trying to 0:18:25.796 --> 0:18:29.876 push back on with this book, is I wanted to 0:18:29.956 --> 0:18:32.796 bring forward stories of the past that we're not as 0:18:32.836 --> 0:18:35.676 well known, but then also really focus on the present 0:18:35.796 --> 0:18:39.596 and say, here are fifty Indigenous people that are doing 0:18:39.676 --> 0:18:43.116 incredible things today. I mean, there are five hundred and 0:18:43.316 --> 0:18:47.996 seventy seven federally recognized tribes and one hundreds more state 0:18:48.076 --> 0:18:52.036 recognized non recognized tribes. And then there's Alaska Native communities 0:18:52.076 --> 0:18:55.916 and Kannakamali in what is currently known or well what 0:18:56.036 --> 0:19:00.116 has always been known as Hawaii, and the vast diversity 0:19:00.356 --> 0:19:03.356 of experience and stories in those communities definitely can't be 0:19:03.476 --> 0:19:05.876 represented in just the fifty profiles that I did in 0:19:05.956 --> 0:19:09.676 the book, so plenty, plenty more work to do on 0:19:09.796 --> 0:19:19.756 that front. One thing that I noted while you were 0:19:19.836 --> 0:19:22.676 talking is that there's been sub changes. There's been some 0:19:22.836 --> 0:19:27.116 high profile changes, I'll say, and I'm saying changes. I 0:19:27.236 --> 0:19:29.716 say that very carefully because you know, change is a 0:19:29.796 --> 0:19:31.756 long thing that happens over time. It's not something that 0:19:31.796 --> 0:19:34.836 happens overnight. And I think about things like the Washington 0:19:34.956 --> 0:19:37.716 football team changing their name, or Deb Holland being in 0:19:37.876 --> 0:19:41.036 the cabinet, or even a show like Reservation Dogs being 0:19:41.076 --> 0:19:44.436 on FX. Yes, I think it's very easy for people 0:19:44.516 --> 0:19:49.556 to stop at those milestones and say, we did it. Now, 0:19:49.796 --> 0:19:53.356 let's let's let's move on. How do you encourage people 0:19:53.356 --> 0:19:55.836 to push beyond that. Yeah, I think that's a really 0:19:55.916 --> 0:19:59.956 important question because I think that's often where the representation 0:20:00.436 --> 0:20:05.116 conversation gets criticized by folks from within community. Is that 0:20:05.636 --> 0:20:09.196 thinking that representation in itself is the end goal, and 0:20:09.356 --> 0:20:12.476 that of course can't be farther from the truth. So 0:20:12.836 --> 0:20:16.276 if we had Native folks represented at every sector of 0:20:16.396 --> 0:20:20.116 society in every TV show and every movie, that would 0:20:20.156 --> 0:20:24.436 be cool. That would be important, And the visibility comes 0:20:24.516 --> 0:20:27.916 with an acknowledgement that Native people still exist and are 0:20:27.996 --> 0:20:30.716 here and will always be here. But none of that 0:20:31.276 --> 0:20:37.076 is really meaningful without actionable change on things like land back, 0:20:37.716 --> 0:20:41.236 Like bringing land back into indigenous stewardship is kind of 0:20:41.316 --> 0:20:44.276 the ultimate goal of all of this and all of 0:20:44.356 --> 0:20:47.596 the changes that would come along with that. But to me, 0:20:48.276 --> 0:20:53.076 visibility is really the first challenge that we as indigenous 0:20:53.116 --> 0:20:57.556 people have to overcome, because we've purposely been erased and 0:20:57.836 --> 0:21:01.276 made invisible, because our presence is a challenge to the 0:21:01.396 --> 0:21:03.556 values of what is currently known as the United States. 0:21:04.076 --> 0:21:08.636 So in order to begin these conversations about deeper issues 0:21:08.676 --> 0:21:12.596 of relationship to land, to one another, to non human relatives, 0:21:12.916 --> 0:21:14.836 there has to be an acknowledgement that we are still 0:21:15.316 --> 0:21:19.556 around and here and engaging in these practices, Doctor Kane, 0:21:19.676 --> 0:21:22.636 what would that look like? What are some actionable steps 0:21:22.716 --> 0:21:26.756 beyond working for representation? To me, moving beyond it is 0:21:26.796 --> 0:21:30.716 really starting for every non native person to begin a 0:21:30.796 --> 0:21:33.476 relationship with the land that they're on and the people 0:21:33.556 --> 0:21:37.676 from that land. And that can look like well, first 0:21:37.676 --> 0:21:40.356 of all, figuring out who that is, who the people 0:21:40.436 --> 0:21:44.756 are whose land you occupy, and then looking up ways 0:21:44.876 --> 0:21:49.596 to support their sovereignty to support the issues that they're 0:21:49.636 --> 0:21:53.356 engaged with. Every community has a different set of challenges 0:21:53.396 --> 0:21:58.116 that they're facing based on their local lands and governments 0:21:58.156 --> 0:22:01.236 and things like that. There's a website landback dot org, 0:22:01.396 --> 0:22:04.396 which is a good place to start. It has a 0:22:04.476 --> 0:22:07.596 great manifesto that sort of lays out why this idea 0:22:07.716 --> 0:22:10.636 of land back is so fun to mental to processes 0:22:10.756 --> 0:22:15.236 of decolonization. And I use that word decolonization very carefully 0:22:15.916 --> 0:22:18.716 because I think it's something that gets misused a lot 0:22:18.876 --> 0:22:22.556 to just mean like social justice or like indigenous rights, 0:22:22.636 --> 0:22:25.156 and that's really not what it's about. It's about the 0:22:25.276 --> 0:22:29.876 rematriation of Indigenous land and life ways. So reading landback 0:22:29.956 --> 0:22:33.356 dot org, it's understanding how that sort of phrase really 0:22:33.436 --> 0:22:38.036 represents a lot. There are amazing resources, like in the 0:22:38.116 --> 0:22:42.596 Bay Area there is the sogorotea land trust run by 0:22:42.596 --> 0:22:45.196 a group of Indigenous women. There are ways for settlers 0:22:45.276 --> 0:22:47.636 to pay rent for the land that they're on in 0:22:47.716 --> 0:22:52.156 different cities. So I think moving the conversation from just 0:22:52.436 --> 0:22:57.356 sort of like representation matters for representation's sake, to representation 0:22:57.516 --> 0:23:01.196 matters because you need to know about the people who's 0:23:01.276 --> 0:23:04.076 land you're on. You need to know about your relationship 0:23:04.196 --> 0:23:07.276 to this land, and for Indigenous folks, our identities as 0:23:07.676 --> 0:23:11.076 indigenous are so deeply tied to being from the land 0:23:11.116 --> 0:23:13.476 and from a place that it's kind of one and 0:23:13.516 --> 0:23:15.996 the same in a lot of ways. So learning about 0:23:16.076 --> 0:23:19.196 us through books and media and all of these things 0:23:19.396 --> 0:23:22.916 is a start of that relationship to the land. I 0:23:23.036 --> 0:23:25.396 have two questions about allyship, and I mean and I 0:23:25.516 --> 0:23:28.756 want to talk specifically about non native folks and allyship 0:23:28.836 --> 0:23:32.076 with Native folks. The first is that last summer, I 0:23:32.196 --> 0:23:34.756 noticed that a lot of the momentum that came for 0:23:34.836 --> 0:23:37.796 the Washington football team changing their name came out of 0:23:38.036 --> 0:23:40.996 the momentum that came after the fervor of George Floyd. 0:23:41.316 --> 0:23:45.236 And I remember even myself tweeting at the Washington football 0:23:45.236 --> 0:23:48.156 team because they posted a black square on Blackout Tuesday, 0:23:48.196 --> 0:23:49.636 which is what a lot of people were posting in 0:23:49.676 --> 0:23:53.236 solidarity with the Black Lives Matter movement. They posted a 0:23:53.236 --> 0:23:55.436 black square and I immediately said, how could you post that? 0:23:55.516 --> 0:23:57.756 If you with your name being a slurt, like, how 0:23:57.796 --> 0:24:00.276 could you post that? And people went after them, and 0:24:00.556 --> 0:24:02.716 it looked like a lot of that momentum snowballed into 0:24:02.756 --> 0:24:04.916 them actually making the decision because then some of the 0:24:05.356 --> 0:24:09.396 larger corporations pulled their funding for the Washington FOTBA team, 0:24:09.396 --> 0:24:10.836 and someone or threatened to pull their funding for the 0:24:10.876 --> 0:24:13.116 Washington football team, and that paved the way for them 0:24:13.116 --> 0:24:15.956 to change their name. What does that allyship look like 0:24:16.236 --> 0:24:18.916 in a perfect world? Knowing that natives were doing a 0:24:18.956 --> 0:24:21.596 lot of that work early on. I saw them on 0:24:22.276 --> 0:24:25.476 television shows. I saw folks on John Stewart many years 0:24:25.516 --> 0:24:27.636 ago talking about the names that need to be changed, 0:24:27.676 --> 0:24:30.356 whether it be Cleveland, whether it be you know, Florida State, 0:24:30.436 --> 0:24:33.316 whether it be the Blackhawks, any of these teams. So 0:24:33.396 --> 0:24:35.836