Speaker 1: Break was breaking down all the biggest NBA storylines. Lord
Speaker 1: tuned in so the heat Check. The Heat Check was
Speaker 1: just a crack the best podcast covering all the trauma
Speaker 1: around the association.
Speaker 2: Now, let's talk about the dumpster fire happening in Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: Find out what's really going on behind the scenes that
Speaker 2: cost a massive riff between the ones, very close relationship
Speaker 2: between James Harden and Sixers GM Daryl Moury, and of
Speaker 2: course what the fuck happens Next, we brought on your
Speaker 2: own Whitzman. He interviewed a dozen people close to both sides.
Speaker 2: He's here to break it all down. This is a
Speaker 2: can't miss interview without further ado. Listen in. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much for coming on my pleasure. I've already Uh,
Speaker 2: what you guys don't hear behind the scenes is I
Speaker 2: accidentally said your own who's very prominent reporter in the business,
Speaker 2: love his work, that he didn't look good. So we're
Speaker 2: off to the race.
Speaker 1: This weird.
Speaker 2: We're headed for the kind of relationship that James Harden
Speaker 2: and Darryl Moorey. There you go, intense and fractured.
Speaker 1: There you go.
Speaker 2: How did we get to this place where Harden is
Speaker 2: now at war with his team, the third team in
Speaker 2: three years.
Speaker 1: So that okay, so the third team in three years.
Speaker 1: That's almost a separate conversation, right In terms of this
Speaker 1: specific thing, his specific beef with Daryl Moury, we can
Speaker 1: trace it. I wrote a long story kind of trace this.
Speaker 1: This goes back years decade. But I think the real
Speaker 1: answer is just the root of who him and Maury are.
Speaker 1: That's what I wrote about. But that Daryl Moury at
Speaker 1: his root. I mean, all NBA fans know what he is,
Speaker 1: the cold, calculating guy who wins above loyalty. And the
Speaker 1: way I phrased it is that emotions rarely play a
Speaker 1: role in his decisions, and James Harden is somebody who
Speaker 1: emotions are basically what or will mostly informed his decisions.
Speaker 1: And if you have those two, at some point we
Speaker 1: were going to hit this. At some point, We're gonna
Speaker 1: hit this point where there was going to be an issue,
Speaker 1: and there was going to be a problem. James Harden
Speaker 1: was not going to realize that maybe he wasn't the
Speaker 1: max player. And that's that's not a new story, right,
Speaker 1: Like we can name Carmelo Russell Westbrook, Allen Iverson, like
Speaker 1: we can name in all sports like the Aging Superstar.
Speaker 1: That's that's an old story and that's one of the
Speaker 1: hardest things, and some teams will deal with that maybe
Speaker 1: and value the loyalty. Daryl Morry at some point was
Speaker 1: going to tell James Harden no, and James Harden at
Speaker 1: some point was going to be very angry that Daryl
Speaker 1: Moury said no and it was going to end up
Speaker 1: in this place.
Speaker 2: Do you think that that, Yeah, because you talked about
Speaker 2: how important loyalty is to James Harden and if that's
Speaker 2: also something very important to me, And I don't necessarily
Speaker 2: think in business relationships I'm going to get loyalty, but
Speaker 2: this crossed the line from a business relationship ship to
Speaker 2: a friendship as well, where Daryl Morey had James Harden's
Speaker 2: painting in his house. So if I value loyalty above
Speaker 2: everything else, the people around me I want to value
Speaker 2: loyalty too, and I kind of suss out whether that's
Speaker 2: something that's important to them. Do you think that James
Speaker 2: Harden thought he was going to be different as it
Speaker 2: related to Dyroll and or did he maybe think that
Speaker 2: this was coming down the pipe?
Speaker 1: No, that's a great question. I think he I mean,
Speaker 1: we know the answer that he thought it was possibly
Speaker 1: coming down just based on his flirting with Houston, and
Speaker 1: I think that's that's I think it's a little more
Speaker 1: complicated than it's made out to be. But he was
Speaker 1: definitely interested and trying to work behind the scenes and
Speaker 1: see if you's still to be interested in him. Right,
Speaker 1: So you don't do that if you think that you're
Speaker 1: about to get a max contract and that's locked in.
Speaker 1: You do that to try to exact some leverage or
Speaker 1: acts leverage over the guy you're in with. So I
Speaker 1: think they were both pretty on the up and up.
Speaker 1: And James Harden, I mean it's I think it's kind
Speaker 1: of classic, right. He values loyalty in other people. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say he's the most loyal person himself, right, And
Speaker 1: so he saw plenty of There are plenty of examples
Speaker 1: in Houston of guys who were major pieces in different
Speaker 1: cores of teams. Was Louis Skola, Chuck Hayes, a different
Speaker 1: you know, different people. Chris Paul was one who was
Speaker 1: banished because of James Harden, Right, different people who are
Speaker 1: part of the part of the group there and got
Speaker 1: dumped by the Rockets for different reasons. A lot of
Speaker 1: times the reasons were because James Harden was annoyed at
Speaker 1: them for some reason. And when I to go back,
Speaker 1: like when we talk about his emotions, it's also he
Speaker 1: values loyalty. He's also very sensitive, right, And that's something
Speaker 1: that's important to know in all this. And the idea
Speaker 1: that if you I think I have a quote him
Speaker 1: this in the story from a former coach, the idea
Speaker 1: that if you cross James, he's just you're done with him.
Speaker 1: If and that cross could be you're done to him
Speaker 1: or in his yeah, just that cross can be the
Speaker 1: smallest of things, right, Like it was the idea of
Speaker 1: Chris Paul. We saw Chris Paul wanted to nudge the
Speaker 1: offense a little away, a little more towards a more
Speaker 1: egalitarian system as opposed to James Harden being ball dominant. Nope,
Speaker 1: no good, right, Russell Westbrook. Let's go get me Russell Westbrook.
Speaker 1: That doesn't go well, okay, I want to get rid
Speaker 1: to west Russell Westbrook and I went out of here.
Speaker 1: So it's not like he's being a he's a beacon
Speaker 1: of loyalty himself, which is sort of the ironic part,
Speaker 1: but I do think he probably saw something like this
Speaker 1: coming down the pike in terms of the idea that
Speaker 1: Darryl might try to break up with me, and therefore
Speaker 1: I'm gonna see if I break up with him first
Speaker 1: and get The problem for him was that the market
Speaker 1: just wasn't there, and I think the mistake was they
Speaker 1: didn't properly him and his team didn't properly adjust to
Speaker 1: the to those circumstances.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Houston was kind of in the mix all last year,
Speaker 2: which was kind of bonkers to me. When you have
Speaker 2: a court right young core that you want to give
Speaker 2: the ball to. Jalen Green went on that podcast Pee
Speaker 2: interview and was like, Yeah, having hardened here would really
Speaker 2: stunt my development. And then they bring an ema Udoka.
Speaker 2: Now there's there's some not controvert but almost it's hard
Speaker 2: to decipher how much I may Udoka played in the
Speaker 2: role of James Harden not being able to come back
Speaker 2: to Houston. I saw that you retweeted something from one
Speaker 2: of the other contemporaries where Emy is trying to set
Speaker 2: the record straight. What have you heard from people around
Speaker 2: that situation in terms of like how that dynamic went down?
Speaker 1: So, I mean, what I heard for a while is
Speaker 1: that E may I don't want to I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: didn't like James Harden. I'm saying like I'm purpose and
Speaker 1: closes I don't. I don't think that means personally, right,
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think that means an issue with him.
Speaker 1: I just think that means maybe as a player, well,
Speaker 1: while he was in Brooklyn, I should say, right that
Speaker 1: something about and I don't have the specifics of this
Speaker 1: is why I forget how I phrased the story. Maybe
Speaker 1: it wasn't a fan of his style or whatever, but
Speaker 1: something about their time in Brooklyn made imay Udoka think
Speaker 1: that this was not going to be James Harden would
Speaker 1: not be a good fit for him for this team
Speaker 1: that he was inheriting in Houston. And then the story
Speaker 1: I went up today and Zach Low has a big
Speaker 1: story on ESPN about Jalen Green and you can you
Speaker 1: have the quote there, but may Be Dooka basically says, yeah,
Speaker 1: I thought Fred van Vliet would be a better fit
Speaker 1: for us than James Harden. He pushes back on the
Speaker 1: idea that I don't like James Harden. He ever said
Speaker 1: that which fine, he's also publice not going to say that.
Speaker 1: I don't think he necessarily has a personal issue, but
Speaker 1: I just think it was very clear that when Imo
Speaker 1: Doka got there, Euston's appetite for a hardened reunion was
Speaker 1: really diminished.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and what was interesting too from your article was
Speaker 2: that both sides have just this very disparate view of
Speaker 2: the relationship that was going to continue moving forward in
Speaker 2: the off season. You say James Harden doesn't feel wanted
Speaker 2: and the Sixers really want James Harden. Can you just
Speaker 2: expand on why those both you know, are so different
Speaker 2: in terms of their opinions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is kind of the root of it. Like this,
Speaker 1: it's like this, So where is James Harden's problem James
Speaker 1: Harden's promise? He says that, no, of course, way back up,
Speaker 1: there's there's a there's an idea being that when James
Speaker 1: Harden have been okay, anything but a max right, and
Speaker 1: we for that, we have to go back to last year,
Speaker 1: he takes the pay cut to re sign with the Sixers.
Speaker 1: So then get PJ. Tucker and Daniel House really mostly PJ. Tucker.
Speaker 1: Everyone assumes there's a wink wink that Okay, Harden's gonna
Speaker 1: take a pay cut. Clearly they have a wink wink
Speaker 1: that he's gonna sign a max next year. The league
Speaker 1: even investigates that doesn't find anything. The Sixers have denied that.
Speaker 1: Of course, I wrote this like if there was an agreement,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be like a text message where Daryl Morey saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: you do the pay cut now, I promise you a
Speaker 1: max contract next year, right, Like it just that's not
Speaker 1: how these things go. I don't know what happened. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna guess what happened is, yeah, we'll take care of you, right.
Speaker 1: And what everyone takes that like, that's a very vague
Speaker 1: sentence phrasing, and everyone takes that whatever to mean whatever
Speaker 1: they think it's gonna mean. James Harden plays this year
Speaker 1: most of the year, he probably thinks he's in good shape,
Speaker 1: he's playing really well. Houston's there, So if Houston's there
Speaker 1: also as interested as a team of interest or team
Speaker 1: who's interested in him, the market's gonna be better. He's thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll be good with contract. He has another poor playoff
Speaker 1: or poor game six or seven. I should say he
Speaker 1: had a couple of good games in there. Houston is
Speaker 1: no longer on the market. If there's anybody who would
Speaker 1: know that Houston is off the market, it would be
Speaker 1: dal Maurray, who's obviously really plugged into what's going on there,
Speaker 1: even though he's not there anymore. But you know, teams
Speaker 1: can find these things out. And Philly now is saying
Speaker 1: that the reason we're not negotiating with James Harden earlier,
Speaker 1: letting him know that he's wanted is because, hey, remember
Speaker 1: last year we were adopted a couple of draft picks
Speaker 1: for negotiating with PJ. Tucker and Daniel House early and
Speaker 1: those guys. And therefore this year we're going to be
Speaker 1: real sticklers for the NBA's rules, right, for the NBA's
Speaker 1: tampering rules and free agency timeline. They've insisted on that
Speaker 1: in private also, And I'm saying that because could because
Speaker 1: they insist on him private too. I'm dubious on that, right.
Speaker 1: I find that that's hard to believe. I think if
Speaker 1: there was another team that was interested in Hard and
Speaker 1: they knew of they would have adjusted accordingly. And I
Speaker 1: think that's where sort of them breakdown really comes from,
Speaker 1: is that Harden once to be told at that in
Speaker 1: those moments you like me. I know I will actually
Speaker 1: take less than the max, but just show me that
Speaker 1: you want me. Philly is saying, now you know what
Speaker 1: we were promising, We wanted you. We were going to
Speaker 1: be there. The moment free agency open, you would have
Speaker 1: been at your doorstep. We have to wait, we have
Speaker 1: to wait. And this is where the breakdown is that
Speaker 1: it's kind of like he said, he said, and I
Speaker 1: don't know the answers that are probably both right right,
Speaker 1: I'm both right and wrong, and how he got here,
Speaker 1: and I just I don't know if they can come
Speaker 1: back from this.
Speaker 2: And James Harden's probably like, well, I've seen the way
Speaker 2: Daryl Morey's rock for the last ten years for sure,
Speaker 2: and if you are changing your the way that you
Speaker 2: move now, it is sending me into red alert. Push
Speaker 2: the button. I have now no other options but to
Speaker 2: be strong armed by the Philly. So now I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna sign. I'm just going to pick up my player
Speaker 2: option because if it's a jump mollfuck you, I actually.
Speaker 1: Think I actually use that. That's a great point. I
Speaker 1: think that the idea that he would know and if
Speaker 1: he knows, how do't what operates and if like you're
Speaker 1: saying aging his methods, that's a red flan they know, right,
Speaker 1: and this isn't I mean, the whole NBA knows how
Speaker 1: dwal Morey operates. He's been around for twenty years as
Speaker 1: a reputation as being a I'll say cold, you want
Speaker 1: to say really uh you know yeah, which again that's
Speaker 1: like these sometimes are negative words. That's you can argue
Speaker 1: it's also his job, right, So I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that and that he's doing anything wrong. And this
Speaker 1: is the way the hardened thing becomes so complicated because
Speaker 1: we can all agree James Harden should not be getting
Speaker 1: a max right, And I don't know, Like, if you're Philly,
Speaker 1: Dallas is a great example, right, Kyrie has no other
Speaker 1: market none, there's no other market that they try pretending
Speaker 1: he's meeting with Phoenix, and they do all these things
Speaker 1: that there's no one else there and Dallas they could
Speaker 1: have squeezed them. Instead they come with whatever three years,
Speaker 1: one hundred. I forget the exact numbers were right, And
Speaker 1: I don't know that if they held strong, like was
Speaker 1: there anyone else coming close to that? Probably not. They
Speaker 1: decided that to them it was more important to have
Speaker 1: Kyrie in and signed and have him be happy. Right,
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that's move right. That could have
Speaker 1: been wrong. We will see darl Morey's doing the opposite way, right,
Speaker 1: going with a different it was going with different paths.
Speaker 1: So again I guess I should point out they insist
Speaker 1: that they were not going to go a different path,
Speaker 1: that at some point they would have offered Hard in
Speaker 1: a contract. I don't know, if I have no numbers,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but at some point they would have
Speaker 1: offered a heart in the contract that would have been,
Speaker 1: you know, valuable, and he would have been happy with.
Speaker 1: And this way you can go drive yourself in circles.
Speaker 1: Also because like Daryl Morey knows as well as anyone
Speaker 1: how sensitive James hard is, so he's probably also thinking,
Speaker 1: I assume, wait, if he only wants a Max, is
Speaker 1: he gonna be happy with anything we offer? Like I
Speaker 1: can come day one and offer him I don't know
Speaker 1: making I'm making this up three for one twenty and
Speaker 1: he's gonna say, fuck you, no, I don't want that.
Speaker 1: I want to Max. I'm James Harden And it creates
Speaker 1: a whole issue there. So this is why. I go
Speaker 1: back to the original thing we were talking about that.
Speaker 1: I just think this relationship at some point was destined
Speaker 1: to wind up in this area, in this in this
Speaker 1: area where they're both well, someone has a problem with
Speaker 1: the other.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned Kyrie, and I think that's really
Speaker 2: fascinating because Daryl Moury knows that Kyrie is even more
Speaker 2: He knows that Harden is even more disruptive when he's
Speaker 2: unhappy than Kyrie is. And Kyrie can be a big
Speaker 2: thorn in your side as well, which makes sense why
Speaker 2: Dallas wants to keep him happy, because they really ultimately
Speaker 2: want to keep Luca happy. I'm curious if anyone brought
Speaker 2: up the dynamic between hardened and embid and whether that
Speaker 2: was something that was in the Sixer's mind. They put
Speaker 2: all this effort into this process. You talked about that
Speaker 2: in your book Tanking to the Top. Just how long
Speaker 2: it's taken for them to become a contender and now
Speaker 2: it feels like the lynchpin of this process is now
Speaker 2: James Harden. So how much do you think that played
Speaker 2: into it as well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a big part. Daryl Moury, like
Speaker 1: the reason James Harden was that the root of that
Speaker 1: relationship was the idea that Darna Morwy thought James Harden
Speaker 1: was a top five, top three whatever player. He was
Speaker 1: an all time great who could win them, carry them
Speaker 1: to a title, and therefore building a team that accentuates
Speaker 1: his skills and around him, and also doing certain things
Speaker 1: on the fringes, whether it's practice times or certain teammates
Speaker 1: or coaches, whatever, keeping him happy. That was. He wasn't
Speaker 1: doing that because he loved James Harden as a person.
Speaker 1: I mean he was. That was part of it, but
Speaker 1: it's because, no, my job is to win, and the
Speaker 1: best way to win is James Harden affect him and happy. Right,
Speaker 1: The same thing is gonna be the case now with
Speaker 1: Joel Embiid. Like that, that that relationship is now going
Speaker 1: to be. That's gonna be the new Foundational relationship. And
Speaker 1: Daryl Morey knows that right, and he knows I think
Speaker 1: he said this before in the record, But you know,
Speaker 1: managing up, whether it's a to his ownership or towards
Speaker 1: the superstar, that's an essential part of being a GM.
Speaker 1: So managing the managing jew Embiid and making sure he's
Speaker 1: satisfied and feeling comfortable and happy in his current situation.
Speaker 1: Like I think Daryn Morey would probably say that's at
Speaker 1: the top of his priority list, like that is his
Speaker 1: job and because it goes in his view, and he's
Speaker 1: probably right, that goes hand in hand with that's the
Speaker 1: same thing as trying to win a title. Like those
Speaker 1: are the same. Those two things are the same. That's
Speaker 1: the same thing. That's the same goal. So to bringing
Speaker 1: full circle, like to bring answer your question, Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: he's having conversations with him. I don't know what those are. Indeed,
Speaker 1: somebody who likes to uh, he likes the Monday morning
Speaker 1: quarterback basketball decisions. We saw Jimmy Butler right when Jimmy
Speaker 1: He's talked a lot about how he always wanted Jimmy
Speaker 1: Butler and he didn't want him to leave, and he
Speaker 1: always wished to bring him back. That was he never
Speaker 1: made that clear. I mean, I know that he never
Speaker 1: made that clear to anybody at the time, like they
Speaker 1: if if he had made clear that he wanted Jimmy
Speaker 1: Butler to still be there, I don't know if he
Speaker 1: he probably would have still been there or it would
Speaker 1: have been a bigger discussion. He never made that clear.
Speaker 1: Only after the fact did he did he say that.
Speaker 1: You know, I think Jimmy Butler should have stayed. And
Speaker 1: he's done this with other decisions too, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of poke afterward. So then I think the Sixers perspective
Speaker 1: on this would be like, Okay, if he's gonna Monday
Speaker 1: morning quarterback us, we might as well do what we
Speaker 1: think is best for our basketball team, because it's if
Speaker 1: it doesn't work out, it's not like he's gonna say, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what. I was on board with that, And
Speaker 1: I was also so in terms of like and b
Speaker 1: knows any Harden or he knows any other star. I
Speaker 1: guess at this point, what's he gonna do. He's not
Speaker 1: going to ask out for a trade now at the
Speaker 1: end of this year. You know that season in basketball
Speaker 1: is a long long time, but right now this that
Speaker 1: it is managing it.
Speaker 2: So I don't get the Nick Nurse hiring, uh, especially
Speaker 2: considering in your article you talked about how James Harden
Speaker 2: was consulted on the head coach decision in yeah, in
Speaker 2: Houston or in Philly.
Speaker 1: And those were in Houston. Here, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I don't know if he was consulted here, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know either way.
Speaker 2: So Doc Rivers fired because mostly he was trying to
Speaker 2: help hold James Harden accountable. Right, James Harden's traveling to Vegas,
Speaker 2: He's you know, in the playoffs, he's back in Houston
Speaker 2: whenever it's an off day. And what the reporting was
Speaker 2: not yours, but other reporting was that, you know, that
Speaker 2: was a key crux of Doc Rivers being let go.
Speaker 2: Is it he was trying to put the screws on Harden.
Speaker 2: Nick Nurse comes in. He's even more of a accountability
Speaker 2: guy than even Doc Rivers is way less of a
Speaker 2: player's coach we've now seen in terms of how he
Speaker 2: moved when he was in Toronto. Does that like, does
Speaker 2: that fit make sense for a James Harden led team?
Speaker 2: In your opinion, it's.
Speaker 1: Uh no, it's a little it's it's a little interesting.
Speaker 1: I'm a little not surprising, confusing, here's a better way
Speaker 1: to say it. I found I have found it really interesting.
Speaker 1: So they started camp. I'm not there, but you're reading
Speaker 1: the quotes coming out and Tobias Harris and Daniel House
Speaker 1: both specifically forget even when the coach talks about their system.
Speaker 1: That's different, right, because whatever they say, you coach speak.
Speaker 1: But Tobias Harris and Daniel House have both specifically talked
Speaker 1: about how it's going to be very different this year
Speaker 1: with UH coach Nurse who's emphasizing ball movement and player
Speaker 1: movement and gutting guys on the move, not just standing around.
Speaker 1: And you know people can look up those quotes. I
Speaker 1: think Daniel House even mentioned not like what Doc did,
Speaker 1: I think, which I found funny. Those are not basketball
Speaker 1: philosophies that you think of as as meshing with James
Speaker 1: Harden's style and game. So I'm with you. I find interesting.
Speaker 1: It makes me almost you know, as a basketball fan,
Speaker 1: I'm fast. I kind of want to see James Harden
Speaker 1: in the court and to see like what this looks
Speaker 1: like and maybe there could be an interesting and cool
Speaker 1: UH middle ground found that can lift it all up.
Speaker 1: So that part is interesting, I think. But but I
Speaker 1: think the answer your question is, I don't think Harden
Speaker 1: is the one the six Ers are going to find
Speaker 1: the head coach. I don't think Harden was the priority. Right.
Speaker 1: It's embiid and Nick Nurse is somebody who they think
Speaker 1: can unlock embed in new ways and to be fair,
Speaker 1: doc Rivers like Embiid got much better under doc Rivers.
Speaker 1: And again I don't know who to credit for this.
Speaker 1: I never know. Everyone ends up taking credit for it,
Speaker 1: all right, But with doc Rivers there and Bead evolved.
Speaker 1: We saw the stuff with the on the elbow last
Speaker 1: year where he became this unstoppable force. You have to
Speaker 1: give Rivers a little credit for that at the least.
Speaker 1: But I think they think that Nurse can unlock the
Speaker 1: offense and an EMBIID centric offense ways that they haven't
Speaker 1: seen and around the playoff time. Also, Nick Nurse has
Speaker 1: a relationship previous relationship with Daral Moray going back to Houston.
Speaker 1: He was the g lee coach for Morrity in Houston.
Speaker 1: So I think those would be the Those are the
Speaker 1: relationships and the people I look towards in terms of
Speaker 1: trying to understand why they hired Nick Nurse, not trying
Speaker 1: to build everything around James Harden. But I'm with you,
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated to see what this would look like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too. How Like those comments that James made
Speaker 2: in China were really really interesting in terms of the location. Yeah,
Speaker 2: in terms of the timing. Obviously, the Hong Kong free
Speaker 2: Hong Kong stuff that Darryl Moury put out got him
Speaker 2: a ton of heat from the league. It got the
Speaker 2: league penalized in a big way. Do you think that
Speaker 2: was premeditated?
Speaker 1: I know people think that this is gonna sell me.
Speaker 1: I don't know. James Harden is Uh, that's a lot
Speaker 1: of dots to connect, right, I don't know if that
Speaker 1: if it is, if if it were that almost respected more,
Speaker 1: that's funny. That sounds like that would just be going
Speaker 1: full blast. I think it was more a coincid well
Speaker 1: two parts. I think it was a coincidence that of
Speaker 1: the timing right, So that was I believe, like a month.
Speaker 1: I don't remember. Was it a Monday or Tuesday. I
Speaker 1: think it was a Monday, and like the previous Thursday
Speaker 1: or Friday, ESPN had reported that the Sixers were ending
Speaker 1: Trey conversations and expected hard in the camp. So I
Speaker 1: think that's it was a reaction to that. I don't
Speaker 1: I think the China, If I'm guessing, I think James
Speaker 1: hard to make those comments in China have less to
Speaker 1: do with him trying to poke it down more though
Speaker 1: that'd be funny versus this clearly a comfort he feels
Speaker 1: there and a love that he feels from the public
Speaker 1: there that he doesn't necessarily feel in situations here right
Speaker 1: and there. He thought he was talking to his part isans,
Speaker 1: his people in that situation, and I feel like that's
Speaker 1: why he that's where that came from. I don't think
Speaker 1: the time was premeditated at least, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: think his camp. If it was premeditated with his camp,
Speaker 1: maybe you know, harden to say he was gonna do something,
Speaker 1: but I don't think his camp and like laid that
Speaker 1: out as a smart move, yeah, but I think it
Speaker 1: was just as a comfort he feels there in China.
Speaker 2: So you mentioned the comfort that he's not feeling here
Speaker 2: sort of stateside. So he's kind of always to me,
Speaker 2: from what I've heard from around the league, known to
Speaker 2: be someone who, like you said, very sensitive, has a
Speaker 2: chip on his shoulder, didn't play for a blue chip
Speaker 2: school like Kentucky or Duke, ended up going to ASU,
Speaker 2: was the number three draft pick, but still was a
Speaker 2: six man on an OKC team. Like, from what you understand,
Speaker 2: where is this sensitivity, this chip on the shoulder, This
Speaker 2: crossed me once and I'll cut you off forever, Like,
Speaker 2: what is it inside of him externally around him that
Speaker 2: has created that? If you know, if anyone has mentioned
Speaker 2: other circumstances that they could point to.
Speaker 1: It's a great question. I don't have a good answer.
Speaker 1: I wish I did. I profiled him last year and
Speaker 1: I did like a forty feth minute interview with him,
Speaker 1: which you don't you know, I don't pretend you get
Speaker 1: to know people well on those, but it gives you
Speaker 1: some insight and the biggest thing, my biggest takeaway from
Speaker 1: that does a fully answered question. What's related is like
Speaker 1: he was so his go to move is I don't
Speaker 1: care what people think and or I don't pay attention
Speaker 1: to what people say, like when they say X, Y
Speaker 1: Z and then quote exactly what they say.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: It was like it was like he did that repeatedly,
Speaker 1: and I think I even said that to him at
Speaker 1: some point I wish I hadn't remembered. I said, nicely,
Speaker 1: you know, just you know you say this, but clearly
Speaker 1: you do care, and he got to it. The answer
Speaker 1: we ended up getting to that I found interesting is
Speaker 1: there's a legacy play with him for sure that he's
Speaker 1: aware of, right, and that goes back to the title chasing,
Speaker 1: I should say title chasing. He knows he needs a title, right,
Speaker 1: he wants to be remembered as an all time great.
Speaker 1: If I'm guessing, I don't know. I don't know in
Speaker 1: terms of like you know, psychology or child there's deeper,
Speaker 1: more interesting answers that I wouldn't be able to touch
Speaker 1: on or wouldn't have insight into. I do think there's
Speaker 1: a tension between him correctly realizing that he's somebody who
Speaker 1: changed the game of basketball, right. He said this to me,
Speaker 1: like I changed a game of basketball, and he's completely
Speaker 1: right about that. All time great, he changed the game
Speaker 1: and he deserves a ton of credit for that, and
Speaker 1: not change the game annoying way, like he's an all
Speaker 1: time great offensive player. But there are these caveats to
Speaker 1: his career, you know, if you look at his legas
Speaker 1: his resume, where you know a lot of playoff failures,
Speaker 1: no championship, and it's gonna be like he's almost at
Speaker 1: the point. You know, with stars, they hit a point
Speaker 1: where you're if you're so good in one category, then
Speaker 1: we accentuate your negatives, where like if he wasn't quite
Speaker 1: that good, we would kind of ignore the negatives, if
Speaker 1: that makes sense. So he's where he's so good that
Speaker 1: we have to then emphasize the the the problems or
Speaker 1: the deficiencies, and that almost overshadows that conversation, overshadows the greatness.
Speaker 1: And I think that's something that he's sensitive to, and
Speaker 1: I get that. I don't think he's helping himself in
Speaker 1: terms of how how he's going about trying to address that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't think he's really helping himself in
Speaker 2: terms of getting him out either. It feels like if
Speaker 2: he wasn't being so loud about things, then maybe it
Speaker 2: would be easier for other teams to want to at
Speaker 2: least explore trading for him. But he's kind of a
Speaker 2: headache and a declining asset, and it seems like the
Speaker 2: Clippers are the only ones with interest, and Darryl Moury,
Speaker 2: like he did with Ben Simmons, is gonna want a haul.
Speaker 2: They're gonna want at least a young player that they
Speaker 2: can build around or some pieces to turn into another
Speaker 2: marquee player. But what you're reporting is is that James
Speaker 2: Harden is You would not be somebody said to you
Speaker 2: close to you or a source close to Harden excuse me,
Speaker 2: wouldn't be surprised if he returns and is destructive? What
Speaker 2: is did they like expand on what destructive?
Speaker 1: Could well see? Anyway? Right now? He was a good citizen, Yes,
Speaker 1: we've seen it. The lazy passes like, well, we've seen it.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he'll do well, is it, Ben Simmons?
Speaker 1: If you have a phone in his pocket? I'm trying
Speaker 1: to remember it was that we able to figure out
Speaker 1: if it was a phone or if it wasn't a phone.
Speaker 1: I do want to go back in a couple of things,
Speaker 1: a few things what you mentioned dal Moury. This I
Speaker 1: think is the two parts when you the things you
Speaker 1: said right, you mentioned dal Moray wants a haul and
Speaker 1: it is gonna hold out. It's more than that. It's
Speaker 1: that he needs He's backed into a corner, right like
Speaker 1: if he screws this up, if the Harden thing gets
Speaker 1: screwed up, and let's say he just gave it and
Speaker 1: traded hard for out of Norman Powell and some the
Speaker 1: Clippers junk right and like they lose in the first round,
Speaker 1: they get swept by the Celtics or losing five h
Speaker 1: daral Moray his jobs on the line and Joel and
Speaker 1: Beide might ask out and you and then you're you're
Speaker 1: in charge of that. So it's not even like Ben Simmons.
Speaker 1: You could argue that was more of a a ego player.
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm not gonna I'm gonna hold out and
Speaker 1: I show you guys, I can do this, like he
Speaker 1: has no choice here. He cannot mess this up. He
Speaker 1: cannot take fifty cents on the dollar. Otherwise the bead's
Speaker 1: probably gonna be gone, right, And that's a huge issue.
Speaker 1: And that's why I agree with you that Harden's not
Speaker 1: handling this properly right, and I think his camp thinks
Speaker 1: there's teams who are interested in him. I have done
Speaker 1: this publicly. It doesn't seem like that. I haven't heard
Speaker 1: of anyone. And you know we saw the Damian Lillard
Speaker 1: like guys asking out. The way to do it is
Speaker 1: you can ask out. You gotta let the GM the
Speaker 1: team create a market. Like you can tell tell your
Speaker 1: team quietly who your preference is. But if you do that,
Speaker 1: you just make it harder for them to trade you.
Speaker 1: The best example, everyone always talks about Anthony Davis going
Speaker 1: to the Lakers, but if you remember like we all
Speaker 1: knew he wanted to go to the Lakers, he didn't
Speaker 1: say that publicly, like there was some oh wait, maybe
Speaker 1: the Celtics or maybe the Knicks, Like there was enough
Speaker 1: out there that New Orleans could, you know, work the market,
Speaker 1: work the phones a little bit, or create some sort
Speaker 1: of leverage and get a deal that worked for them
Speaker 1: and in the end you get a win win, like
Speaker 1: James Harden is preventing, has taken that opportunity away from
Speaker 1: the Sixers, and that's a problem.
Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting about what you said is, remember Rich
Speaker 2: Paul did say out in the open, you know, Anthony
Speaker 2: Davis is only going to re sign with LA. But
Speaker 2: the thing that's different about the Clippers versus the Lakers.
Speaker 2: In the circumstances, Kawhi and PG don't have nearly the
Speaker 2: amount of power that Lebron James has within that organization,
Speaker 2: or at least that Lebron James had back then in
Speaker 2: terms of I want this guy. And even if Paul
Speaker 2: George and Kawhi did have that power, they're not asking
Speaker 2: for James Harden. James Harden's not at the caliber player
Speaker 2: as Anthony Davis was, or at least has the upside
Speaker 2: of Anthony Davis, Well, you could.
Speaker 1: Say, you could say no on that if you're the Clippers. Now,
Speaker 1: I think they actually are interested in him. I just
Speaker 1: think they know that, like, what's our rush? You know,
Speaker 1: there's no one else here? Why are we going to
Speaker 1: give everything up? What's the point here? So we can
Speaker 1: just wait it out?
Speaker 2: And we could probably just wait until he's a free agent.
Speaker 2: If he plays nice, you know, we can get him
Speaker 2: at twenty cents on the dollar like we did Russell Westbrook,
Speaker 2: which which is very fascinating that Harden and Russell Westbrook
Speaker 2: could potentially be teammates.
Speaker 1: That would be hilarious. And I'm sure they'll say that,
Speaker 1: you know, no, we were never we never had issues.
Speaker 1: We were always friends, and the media over blew it
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: Both dudes, though, are very stubborn, right Daryl Morey.
Speaker 1: And Harden, uh for sure for sure, which is probably
Speaker 1: what makes them great at what they You know, they're
Speaker 1: both great in their respective fields and have you know,
Speaker 1: become one percenters in their areas.
Speaker 2: Who do you think breaks first?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say break. I think the sixers. I think
Speaker 1: Harden has less leverage than the Sixers. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I go in circles on this because
Speaker 1: it's like I say that, but Harden could nup the
Speaker 1: whole season. Like everyone is familiar now with the CBA
Speaker 1: thing that's been getting a lot of press that you
Speaker 1: have to show up if you go thirty days without
Speaker 1: showing up, whatever the proper language is. But like you
Speaker 1: can show up, but there's nothing against hamstring injury or
Speaker 1: throwing you know, lazy behind the back passes or not
Speaker 1: playing defense. Like it's team can't dock you pay for that,
Speaker 1: they can bench you. But this goes back to what
Speaker 1: I'm saying that, like, you know, if the Sixers season
Speaker 1: goes in the tank, that's a big issue for them.
Speaker 1: So do I break for I genuinely I have I
Speaker 1: do not know. This is not a good answer, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't see how this ends. I
Speaker 1: don't know how this ends. I have trouble seeing it.
Speaker 1: To me, the only way to me the answer is
Speaker 1: that the season starts and stuff happens around the league,
Speaker 1: and maybe another team decides, hey, you know what, we
Speaker 1: will take a shot on him, and that changes the market.
Speaker 1: That's kind of My answer on this that like I
Speaker 1: don't know. Let's say Miami gets up to a bad start.
Speaker 1: I'm making up a team, right, or Jimmy Butler gets
Speaker 1: hurt or whatever. Okay, so maybe we'll take a shot
Speaker 1: on James Harden and that would be a funny marriage
Speaker 1: James Harden with pat Riley. He culture in South Beach.
Speaker 1: But I don't know. Maybe, Like that to me is
Speaker 1: the answer that just once the season starts and stuff happens,
Speaker 1: and some teams have disappointing outcomes or events or results,
Speaker 1: that then creates a bit of a market and that
Speaker 1: allows this thing to kind of get kick started and rolling.
Speaker 2: Do you think there's any possibility of reconciliation.
Speaker 1: I guess the good. So that's a that's a James
Speaker 1: Harden question, right, Like I Dannel Maury, I don't think
Speaker 1: he can Like, yeah, he has like being called a liar.
Speaker 1: If James Harden's back, he is not personal to him,
Speaker 1: like he's fine with that. That's I guess the upside
Speaker 1: of his approach to the job, right, It's not like
Speaker 1: all this guy is blasting me, let me, let me.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm done with him, Like I'm done. So
Speaker 1: that's a James Harden question, And for him it's more about, like, well,
Speaker 1: he come to realize that the market for him is
Speaker 1: probably not what it once was, and honestly, the best
Speaker 1: like he wants to get paid again, the best answers
Speaker 1: for him he's got. Now he's on an expiring deal,
Speaker 1: which he probably shouldn't have picked up if you want
Speaker 1: it out. But now he's on this expiring deal. Uh,
Speaker 1: his best move is to just play really well. And
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I'm not gonna tell anyone to be
Speaker 1: unhappy at work. But if he's, if he's prioritizing getting
Speaker 1: paid again, his best move is to play really well
Speaker 1: and hit the open market next year as a free agent.
Speaker 1: So I do think there's a path there, and I
Speaker 1: guess the good the good news about all the gray
Speaker 1: areas about who's offended who and who was offering who
Speaker 1: a contract and a what time that I mentioned earlier
Speaker 1: is that it leaves a bit of wiggle room for you.
Speaker 1: Oh you know what, this is actually misunderstanding. We won
Speaker 1: you the whole time, and you just did realize, And
Speaker 1: let's actually get our room and talk about it, and
Speaker 1: maybe they can all convince themselves that, like, no, we're cool.
Speaker 1: So I do think it's a possibility. I wouldn't say hi,
Speaker 1: but I do think it's a possibility.
Speaker 2: Man. So you wrote a book tanking to the top
Speaker 2: the Philadelphia seventy six Ers in the most audacious process
Speaker 2: in the history of professional sports, which basically is agreed,
Speaker 2: just tanking, nine win seasons, just stuff that was I mean,
Speaker 2: only the Portland Trailblazers trying to get Scoot Henderson and
Speaker 2: Shape and Sharper probably on the level of that. So
Speaker 2: if Philadelphia does not actually ever get a championship as
Speaker 2: a result of how badly they were on purpose, is
Speaker 2: this the in your opinion, like, just to wrap it up,
Speaker 2: the greatest NBA failure in or at least the biggest
Speaker 2: failure in their franchise is history and the Sixers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, so failures, there's there's a they're up there.
Speaker 1: It's a different kind of list, right, So you can
Speaker 1: think of there's like the Dwight Steve Nash Lakers, which
Speaker 1: was a fun one, the nets twice, right, the Kevin
Speaker 1: Garnett Dedren Williams nets, and then I think the Kyrie
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant one that I take the cake in terms
Speaker 1: of just biggest what if this though, I do think
Speaker 1: it's one of a kind. And I'm not a Philly guy.
Speaker 1: I live in New York, Like it's not like people,
Speaker 1: I'm not a Sixers fan. I just I just attracted
Speaker 1: this story because it's just so ridiculous, Like it's it's
Speaker 1: not just that they haven't made it past the second round,
Speaker 1: like there was the process started with trading Drew Holliday
Speaker 1: after a second round, after losing the second round and
Speaker 1: ten love whatever year is. Now eleven years later, they
Speaker 1: still have in the advanced past the second around, Like
Speaker 1: that's wild, right, And it's not like they got you
Speaker 1: all them beads so they have the MVPs. It's not
Speaker 1: like they haven't had the ability to be there, just
Speaker 1: they didn't derailed by all sorts of nonsense. And it's
Speaker 1: all the nonsensible scandals that make this a unique story, right,
Speaker 1: the Frank Klangel Burnergade and two number one picks who
Speaker 1: forget how to shoot, Like that's on that's unheard of, right,
Speaker 1: Fulton Simmons, uh Is you can go down the list,
Speaker 1: is Sam Pinky being ousted and just it's it's just
Speaker 1: down Boyd and coming back like San Pinky's mentor coming
Speaker 1: back and just it's just the I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: like it's straight off a TV show, right, It's like
Speaker 1: it's too it's too ridiculous to be true. So that's
Speaker 1: what I think separates it. It's not just the on
Speaker 1: core failures, it's that what have it's the uh, the
Speaker 1: scandals are issues that have led to those on core failures.
Speaker 1: Is what makes this different.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna be fascinated to see how this ends.
Speaker 2: Awesome stuff. Probably the most comprehensive breakdown into Daryl Morey
Speaker 2: and Harden's relationship and why it was, you know, really
Speaker 2: beneficial for very long time, but always doomed to fail.
Speaker 2: Definitely check that out at foxsports dot com. Do you
Speaker 2: have anything else you're own that you.
Speaker 1: Want to plug? Yeah? Check me on Twitter at your
Speaker 1: own wife X. Excuse me X all right right? Uh
Speaker 1: the linkless X these days.
Speaker 2: Y A R O N W E I T Z
Speaker 2: M A N. Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: Let's do it again sometime my pleasure. Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me.
Speaker 2: That's all the time that we have for this episode
Speaker 2: of the Heat Check. Thanks a million to your own
Speaker 2: for coming on last minute. That interview is dope. Come
Speaker 2: back next Monday for an all new episode and check
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