WEBVTT - Listener Mail: Robot Thanksgiving 0:00:03.120 --> 0:00:06.160 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from housetop works 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:14.800 dot com. Hey, looking to stuff blow your mind. My 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:18.240 name is Robert Lamb, I'm Christian Seger, and I'm Joe McCormick. 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:22.360 And it's Thanksgiving in America. So we're doing what a 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.759 lot of you guys and gals are doing. We're about 0:00:24.800 --> 0:00:26.800 to sit down here to a little, a little little 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.960 Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah, Ernie the mailbot has actually offered to 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.720 prepare Thanksgiving dinner for us. But I don't know if 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.440 you guys noticed. He seems a little hung up at 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.400 the turkey carving stage, Like he goes to carve and 0:00:39.440 --> 0:00:43.080 then he stops and resets a bunch of times. I 0:00:43.120 --> 0:00:46.680 think it maybe he's still struggling with the recent installation 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:50.960 of Cartesian doubt that makes me pause when cutting up 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:57.600 a bird. Yeah, is the turkey there? Whether it's kind turkey, goose, sparrow. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:01.040 I can just keep naming birds, guys, Yeah, penguin. Have 0:01:01.120 --> 0:01:06.200 you oll ever eaten penguin meat? Me? Neither? Future episode? Well, 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:09.000 let's let's call Carney in here. Hell, we can't wait 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.760 for him to cut into that bird all all day long, 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:15.319 So get in here. Carney and bring us some listener 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:17.480 to mail, because we know it's been accumulating. That's your 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:21.520 your primary function is to provide the listener mail for us. 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:27.320 So let's see what we got. So, as we have discovered, 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:32.559 Carney has collected an amazing, gigantic treasure trove of wonderful 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.800 email from our listeners. And we have so much great 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:39.120 listener mail we absolutely cannot read it all today. We 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:42.600 can't even come close. So we're gonna read a selection 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:46.160 of some of the great messages we've gotten from our listeners. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.000 It's not going to be everything. If your email doesn't 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.480 get read, please don't take it personally. We love all 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:54.680 the correspondence we get and we will try to work 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:57.160 it into a future episode. We will probably have another 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.600 one coming up around uh around the end of the 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.840 year on Christmas, New Year's That that that kind of season. 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:06.120 Hey Joe, where where did these come from? Like? Where 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.600 where do these letters come from? Where do we where 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:10.840 do we get them at? Ah? Well, I'm glad you 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.519 should ask Christian because they come straight to the account. 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.480 Blow the mind at how stuff works dot com. When 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.519 you email that account funny story, it goes straight into 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:25.480 a wire that runs into Carney's head and that's how 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:28.680 he collects the messages. Unfortunately for us, the wire is 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.960 often at like human neck height, so when we're walking 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.799 around the office we can often kind of get our 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:37.920 throats lined once or twice. And you know there's another 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:41.280 wire two that runs in all of our feeds from Facebook, Twitter, 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.880 and Tumbler, where we are also blow the mind. Yeah, 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:48.120 uh so this one actually comes to us from the 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:53.080 mail account, the clothesline wire. This is from Hannah, and 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:56.880 she says, I'm an undergrad psychology major, a low key 0:02:56.919 --> 0:03:00.520 religious person, and a big fan of science except as atronomy. 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.720 That stuff makes me anxious. I recently took a cultural 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:08.000 anthropology course titled Magic, Witchcraft, and Religion. That sounds right 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:11.360 up our alley, and one of the documentaries we watched 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:15.120 in the class was about temporal lobe epilepsy and the 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:18.000 role the disorder played in giving birth to the nascent 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:21.280 field of nero theology. Now I have to wonder if 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:25.080 this male is coming in reference to the episodes Robert 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:27.480 and I did on Techno Religion. I believe that's what 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:32.080 it's referring to. That sun temporal lobe epilepsy is exactly 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.880 what it sounds like, a type of epilepsy in which 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.840 seizures occur in the temporal lobes of the brain. What 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.840 makes this condition even more interesting than other forms of epilepsy, 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:45.520 which are also all very unfortunate for the sufferers, is 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:49.920 the tendency for patients to report religious type hallucinations during 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:54.120 their seizures. This experience has been reported by both religious 0:03:54.160 --> 0:04:00.880 and fervently atheistic patients. She's got another paragraph here. Many 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:03.880 historical figures who were prominent in religion, such as Joan 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.400 of arc and Ellen White, who's the founder of Seventh 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:10.040 Day Adventism, have been suggested to have been affected by 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:13.600 t l E. Other than the religious visions they reported, 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:17.880 these figures were also documented to have fits and dissociative 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:21.799 states consistent with t l E. Ellen White's visions actually 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.839 began occurring after a significant injury to the side of 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:30.159 the head precisely over her temporal lobe. Persengers God helmet, 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.240 which I believe you guys talked about in that episode. 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:34.400 We didn't talk about it in that episode, but it's 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:37.760 definitely come up a few different times in the past. Yeah, 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.760 on the stuff, I feel like we've mentioned it before yeah, okay, persengers. 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.800 God Helmet is a well known example of experimental exploration 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.960 of neuro theology, though his work has been criticized and 0:04:50.080 --> 0:04:55.000 has yet to be replicated. Neuroimaging in Carmelite nuns and 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:59.160 Buddhists and meditative states has also shown increases and activity 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:03.040 in the temporal lobe during experiences of religious observance. Those 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:05.760 who are interested in neuro theology are faced with the 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.840 question is this evidence that religion really is all in 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.080 our heads? Or does this show that our brains have 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:16.760 an antenna for signals from deities? And then she says 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:18.960 that she finds it fascinating from so many angles and 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:21.920 thanks us. Well, that's an interesting question because you kind 0:05:21.960 --> 0:05:23.640 of get you get back to that idea, right, If 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.920 there is a divine force from outside the universe reaching 0:05:27.360 --> 0:05:31.719 into our reality, then the hand of God, the hand 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.880 of the Gods, whatever it has to make some sort 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:38.760 of stirring of the visual universe, of the of the 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.880 observable universe that we can observe. So I don't know, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:43.520 you could I could see someone try and make an 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.600 argue to an argument to say, yes, this neural activity 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.039 is a sign of such a force reaching in or 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.880 the other side is just a compelling just a compelling Yeah. 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.480 In general, I wonder what this means for people who 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.719 who would take some religious experiences to be off dick. Like, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:05.200 let's say you accept these results and say, okay, there 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.120 are there are definitely things you can do to the brain. 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:12.600 Ways you can stimulate the human brain that cause experiences 0:06:12.640 --> 0:06:15.840 that seem, at least from descriptions to be very similar 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.480 to the religious experiences people have of God's or visitations 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:23.320 from angels or uh, you know the apocalypse is revelations 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:27.240 from heaven. Uh. And you you say, okay, you can 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:30.640 cause that with stimulation to the brain. Can you say, well, 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:34.719 sometimes it's caused by you know, physical action in the brain. 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.320 Yet other times the similar experiences are truly caused by 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:42.600 intervention from divine forces or you know, God's Yeah, I 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.479 mean when you start bringing in the supernatural, I mean 0:06:45.960 --> 0:06:48.960 it becomes increasingly difficult, right. I mean, if you're gonna, 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.000 if you're going to acknowledge the existence of the supernatural force, 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.040 then what are the rules for that supernatural force? I'll 0:06:55.080 --> 0:06:58.640 play molder on this one. What if it's both so? Well, yeah, 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.000 that's what I'm as writing. I mean with some people say, yeah, okay, 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.200 you can stimulate the brain and cause experiences this way, 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:10.000 but some very similar experiences are for real magic. Yeah. 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.880 It reminds me of Philip K. Dick's later work, especially 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:17.120 that book Vallas. Have you guys read that before being 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:21.480 contacted by an outside force? And uh yeah, and there's 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.680 there's quasi scientific explanation for it, but it's also kind 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:26.960 of like is this in his head or not? Yeah, 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.000 I mean it all comes down to interpretation and and 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:32.800 you know, you often hear the example brought up, but 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.280 when it comes to auditory hallucinations and that you hear 0:07:35.400 --> 0:07:39.240 voices and how you're not supposed to respond to the voices. So, 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.600 you know, any kind of supernatural, supernatural occurrence, paranormal experience, 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:48.760 even though the the cause is very rooted in the 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.440 natural world and a natural phenomenon, if you answer the voice, 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.600 if you heed the call right, then that's all it 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.440 necessarily takes. Yeah. Well, I think Hannah's proposed a potential 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.560 new top back for us to maybe go down the 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:03.640 rabbit hole with. Yeah, we should do have an episode 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:05.920 or more than one episode on the god Helmet and 0:08:06.560 --> 0:08:10.400 experience theology in generals. Yeah, I have really been wanting 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:13.160 to revisit Techno Religion because there was so much I 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.480 wanted to say in that episode that we couldn't even 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:18.480 fit into the two parts we did. Yeah, it can 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:21.440 be an ongoing series if the folks are interested. Yeah, 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:23.200 please let us know if you want to hear more 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:26.600 on the electro mechanical Messiahs of the World. Now, Joe, 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.400 the robot is trying to hand you another piece of 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:34.360 mail in trails, so I think you managed to cut 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.000 into that bird because Base kind of menacing with that 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.320 electric carving knife in the same hand. But okay, here 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.520 we go. Hi. I heard your recent podcast about echo borgs, 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.719 and I was surprised that in your discussion of serenoids 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.040 that you didn't really go over the reality TV hidden 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.080 camera shows. So a lot of those are all about 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.080 someone talking in your ear telling you to do stuff. 0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:59.679 Some of them, like what would you do, are just 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:03.040 instructing actors for scenes to try to get reactions out 0:09:03.040 --> 0:09:07.199 of the surrounding people to test social ethics. Others are 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.440 like repeat after me, or maybe a famous person or 0:09:10.480 --> 0:09:13.240 something has an earpiece and is told to do crazy 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:17.200 stuff to unsuspecting people. I think for most of the celebrities, 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.400 people just think that they're eccentric famous people or something. 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.480 I've never seen a reality TV show like this, though 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.000 there's a faint bell, but yeah, I've never seen it. 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.040 There is a certain way in which reality TV does 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:37.319 almost almost tickle the boundaries of of profound weird insights 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:40.839 on what real behavior is. Yeah, I mean, I guess, 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:44.440 like I'm not familiar with these two shows that she mentions, um, 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:48.200 and I wonder actually if they're not available in America 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:52.280 because I think her address looks like it might be overseas. 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.760 But anyways, Uh, first of all, I like, I think, 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.720 as just media literacy, it's important to be aware that, 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.040 you know, reality t V as always narratively constructed, just 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:05.240 as much as fictional television is. But but also this 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:07.439 reminds me of are you guys familiar with a comedian 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.920 Kurt brownh Hohler. He's pretty funny guy, and he does 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:15.319 a podcast for nerds called the Khole. Uh and uh. 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:18.320 He he has this a new bit that I recommend 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.560 our listeners and especially Elizabeth go listen to. That's about 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.320 how he used to be one of these people on 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:27.440 a reality type show in which he would sit in 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.560 a diner and they would set up potential dates, like 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:34.280 blind dates, and they would come in and interact with him, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:38.079 and he would have a ventriloquist dummy in his lap 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.560 and would talk to them only through the dummy. And 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:46.480 apparently this one woman he interacted with was deathly afraid 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.280 of dummies and just lost her mind and ran out 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:53.840 of the restaurant crying. And then, as reality show producers 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:56.800 are wont to do, they said, chase her. Uh so 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.160 he chased after her with this ventriloquist dummy. He is 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:03.360 this much funnier version of the story, So I recommend 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:04.960 that you go listen to it. But it sounds a 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:09.800 lot like what She's what Elizabeth here is positing legal 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.199 consequences for chasing somebody with a creepy doll. No, because 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.200 if you this is my take on fear of any 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.880 kind of puppets or marionettes, is if you were afraid 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:22.760 of a storytelling medium as ancient as puppets, then you 0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:26.280 deserve to be chasing the streets. Well, the funny bit 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:29.040 is that at the end, like maybe five years later, 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:32.080 he goes to a party and this woman's at the party, 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.560 and she just like freaks out all over again, and 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:39.280 she says that's him, and everybody knows who she's talking about. 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.440 Oh that's great. Oh wait, hold on, it looks like 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.199 Carney has a message for you, Robert, and it's covered 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.360 in sand. I know what this say is? This comes 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.079 to us from Kelly. Kelly writes and says, hey, guys, 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:53.920 just wrapped up your two part series on Dune, referring, 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.800 of course, the science of Dune. How that we did 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.200 a two party on great job, Awesome picks for music too. 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.400 I'll be honest. Was never a big reader growing up, 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:03.880 and have never read the Doune novels. My introduction to 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.520 Dune was originally through the movie that I recently rewatched. 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.360 After the movie, it was a computer game, Dune To, 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:13.640 developed by Westwood Studios and released in what I had 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.800 never heard of. This like a command and conqueror style game. 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.240 It is, yeah, because it was only loosely based on 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.680 the novels. The game is fantastic for its era, and 0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:25.120 I've even found a browser version to play in recent months. 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.920 It was a real time strategy game where players would 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.520 select from one of the three how houses a tradees 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:35.480 Harconan or Ordos. Each house had a specialty units and weapons. 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:37.280 The goal was to defeat the other two houses and 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.440 control all of Dune and her Spice by growing your 0:12:40.480 --> 0:12:42.960 base and defeating the enemies. Some say this was the 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.280 spawn of real time strategy games, and I'll admit I 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:48.920 enjoyed many that followed, including Command and Conquer, the Command 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.800 and Conqueror series also developed by Westwood. Yeah, when when 0:12:52.880 --> 0:12:55.360 we were putting together a lot of this material, I 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:57.960 ended up looking up some of the old Dune games, 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:02.320 and these were fagles because they had elaborate cut scenes, 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:06.360 which was apparently a Westwood Studios thing. Elaborate Conquer was 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.880 the same way, with some hilarious bad acting too, with 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.880 like early nineties graphics. Yeah, I mean it looked pretty good. 0:13:13.000 --> 0:13:15.360 I think it was the full motion video era, so 0:13:15.440 --> 0:13:17.560 the game would be animated, but then when the cut 0:13:17.600 --> 0:13:21.040 scenes came in, it was essentially like video and the 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.160 examples I looked at looked pretty good. Like the makeup 0:13:24.240 --> 0:13:26.800 was nice. They kind of they went after the look 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:29.600 and feel of the Lynch Dune movie, but with some 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:34.120 auditions here and there. Um. It also this reminds me 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.720 a bit of the board game legacy for Dune. There 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:39.720 there was a game that came out in nineteen seventy 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.760 nine from let's see who was It was Avalon Hill. 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.800 They put out a Dune game that had the circular 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:50.599 map of the planet, and you had all these factions 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.720 and characters and you're trying to harness the spice market 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:58.200 on on a on a Racus and also manipulate other 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:02.400 people form alliances. Really complex, needless to say. Since it 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:05.040 was a franchise game, it's long out of print. You 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:08.280 can get a copy, it's hundreds of bucks, but the 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:11.800 the but print and play services make it possible now 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.280 to both print and play the original as well as 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:19.400 various stripped down fan versions. Uh there's one in particular 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:22.800 that came out in the last year called Dune Dice 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:28.160 or hilariously the Dice Must Flow, which which looks wonderful. 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:29.680 I haven't had a chance to play it yet, but 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.120 it's dice bace. Do you have the same map, everyone 0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.120 has to choose a different faction and form alliances. So 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:38.040 it's a rich world for gaming, that's for sure. I 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:39.520 don't know if you guys talked about this in the 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.560 Dune episode or not, but you know how Hollywood just 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.840 loves franchise universes right now, and they really, you know, 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.920 they they're they're really looking for like the next Harry 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.240 Potter or the next Star Wars or whatever. Dune is 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:55.800 so great, but I also feel like it's the books 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:58.320 that are really like the heart of what makes it great. 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.480 And and I like both of the movie adaptations, by 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:03.840 the way, But I don't know that you could turn 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.760 it into a franchise like that, But I would kind 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:08.600 of love a world where you could just go to 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.160 the store and buy a Dune board game or or 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.360 play a Dune video game. Oh. I think that HBO should, 0:15:16.400 --> 0:15:19.200 in the spirit of Game of Thrones make a Dune 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.640 TV series. That's fantastic. That that's the problem with the movies, 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.280 you know, there's just not enough there's not enough room 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.160 for it to breathe. Yeah, good point, Joe. All Right, 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.360 HBO producers that are listening to make it happen. So 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:36.160 thanks Kelly for writing in. And we got another one 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.160 here coming out of Arnie slash Carni that is also 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.920 for Robert. Also Covered in sand, Covered in Sand and 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:47.840 some weird all right, Well, this one comes to us 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.480 from Peter Peter, and that's p E T E R. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:52.200 So it's not we don't have to worry about this 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.120 big twisted Peter de Freeze, he says. So I loved 0:15:56.120 --> 0:15:58.640 your two part Dune podcasts. Super fun to listen to. 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.160 Here's my question about read in the book. How do 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:03.200 you guys get past the writing style of the book, 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.600 by which I mean the use of so many common 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.600 and non futuristic ideas, words, terms, and names like Who's 0:16:09.600 --> 0:16:12.160 going to be named Jessica in a thousand years? Flapping 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:16.040 flying machines sand Trout. I'm just really distracted by sci 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:21.240 fi that I that that is supposedly futuristic, high tech, etcetera, 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:23.720 but was written long enough ago that it seems silly now. 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.760 Even WILLIAMS. Gibson's early stuff seems extremely dated to me, 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.320 And though I loved reading it at the time, it's 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.160 impossible for me now. But I really want to read 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.000 and enjoy doing and I've tried a couple of times. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.800 Just curious about how you guys handled that kind of issue, 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.240 if it's an issue for you at all. Thanks, Uh, 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:42.160 you know, I I do have to report that it 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.560 took me quite a few tries to get going in Dune. 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:49.680 But once I got past page I don't know, twenty 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.640 or thirty, I couldn't stop. But I tried, I think 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:58.200 literally like three or four times to start the book 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.680 and didn't keep past the first twenty pages. That's the language, though, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:06.359 you mean more so than the scientific concepts, right. I 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:10.199 think it's something about how the very beginning of Dune. Uh, 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:14.160 there is so much unfamiliar stuff it throws at you 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.960 right out of the gate there. It's hard to get 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.399 a foothold at the very beginning, and you're just thrown 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.440 right into this state. Doesn't hold your hand. Yeah, you're 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:25.639 thrown right into this truly alien world, and alien in 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.600 a way that most science fiction is not alien, because 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:33.200 most science fiction is you have very standard, conventional kind 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.440 of culture and reference points, and there's just some weird 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.879 technology or some aliens in it. In this you know, 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:45.119 everything that people think is unfamiliar to us. Yeah, I 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:49.280 would have to say that in my enjoyment of Dune. 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:51.239 First of all, when it comes to things like, oh, 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.440 the character's name is Jessica, I just I read enough 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.919 fantasy and sci fi that I just kind of turned 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.960 that off. Occasionally I'll remind myself. Oh, well, why would 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.359 they have this word in their language when that word 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:07.240 derives from the Greek they have. Do they have Greeks 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.640 in this fantasy world? Probably not, but you just kind 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.080 of have to turn that off in and I'd like 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.399 to think, well, this is probably a translation. This is 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.800 a translation of this other world story into my world, 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.080 and therefore it must conform to the language of my world. Right, 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.040 that's a good point. I mean, if it's thousands of 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.240 years in the future, they wouldn't be speaking English. I 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.760 mean that this is yeah, this is a translation for us. 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.720 It's kind of like how you read in the Bible 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:33.840 that there was a character named Peter. I mean they 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:37.639 didn't say the word Peter ironic because this person's name 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.520 is Peter. Right. Oh yeah, but that's like a you know, 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:44.720 that's an anglicized adaptation of a name that you know 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:48.119 you would have pronounced differently. So maybe maybe Jessica's real 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.919 name is like Yashika. Yeah, it's just like, well, the 0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:55.399 twentieth century reader would read this as Jessica. It makes 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.280 me think of some of the stuff that Robert features 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.399 on Stuff to blow your mind, say, all with the 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:04.120 retro future facts and that, like, I think all culture 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:08.840 is cyclical, right, and potentially authors like uh like Herbert 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.480 are thinking along the lines of, well, you know, the 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.440 name Jessica will come back around again a thousand years 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:19.199 from now, or or the what was one of the 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:22.240 ones you mentioned, the flapping flying machines, like that may 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:24.960 sound ridiculous now, but maybe at the time it would 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:29.000 be some kind of retro version on their future technology. Yeah, 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:30.760 and I think, you know, I like that he mentioned 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:34.240 Gibson because Gibson is definitely an author where I can't 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.920 remember what the technology was, but when I first read Neuromancer, 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.479 like somebody gets a fact or something on there, you know, 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:41.600 there's some sort of a bit of technology where you 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:44.000 instantly think, oh, wait, this is this is the high 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:46.720 tech near future, and yet this is something that's already 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:50.320 uh anequated. He run into that kind of problem far 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.600 more easier with nearer, nearer future sci fi. But Dune 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.440 is set so far in the future and following this 0:19:56.840 --> 0:20:00.000 uh you know, massive Butlerian jaha, during which we've turned 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.800 earned against so much of our technology, it's like almost 0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:06.120 anything is fair game. The technologies that we've been forced 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:10.320 to revisit. The new technologies than the old, the old 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.280 ideas that have become new through the development of meta 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:15.840 materials or what have you. Yeah, I think that's one 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:19.200 of the fascinating things about doing actually is the the 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.520 how some things are so alien and some things are 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:24.760 so familiar, and like picking out the weird little elements 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.119 that have survived the ten thousand years in between. I 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:31.280 love that their characters named Jessica and Paul. I think 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.160 that's that's a very curious and strange and I would 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:41.560 argue almost definitely deliberate choice on Herbert's part. It strikes 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:44.000 me as unlikely that he just kind of like was 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:46.639 lazy and couldn't think of a better name. But I 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:51.000 will add that my wife, Rachel was this was one 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.879 of the funniest parts of doing for her was that 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:58.320 they're the main characters named Paul, like Paul on The 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.919 Wonder Years. Come on. Looks like the next piece of 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.359 mail that Carney has brought out is uh wrapped in 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:09.640 a membrane. Okay, so this we've shaken the amniotic fluid 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.760 off of this letter and uh. This one comes to 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.359 us from Christa and she's writing to us about the 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.560 birth Call episode that we did, she says, I under 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:21.600 or I listened to Born under the Call with great interest. 0:21:21.920 --> 0:21:24.320 I have only come across one other mention of the 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:27.120 folklore associated with this, and I thought you might find 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:29.800 this interesting. Forgive me if you mentioned this. I was 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:32.399 at work while listening and may have missed this. Uh. No, 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.200 we did not mention this, and yes, I did find 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.920 this interesting. So this is a little bit of a 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:44.280 factoid surrounding birth calls, and they're sort of legendary myth. Okay, 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.400 she says. While studying the records of the Great Inquisition, 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.159 an Italian historian Carlo Ginsburg read of a group of 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.080 men from the Fruuli region of Italy who were persecuted 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.520 as which is from the fifteen seventies through the sixteen forties. 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:01.840 I think you would play them within the cunning folk tradition. 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.960 We talked about cunning folk actually in our last last 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.840 um episode on the Summer Reading episode, because Warren Ellis 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.480 writes about cunning folk in his new nonfiction book. They 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:18.360 called themselves the Bennan Dante, good Walkers, or the chemist 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:22.679 Seola Born with the Call. These men were chosen only 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.400