WEBVTT - Trump’s Challenge to the Judicial Branch (Part 1) 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.720 Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:05.200 welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.639 mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I am 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:11.200 your host, Ramsey's job. Big shout out to q Ward 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:16.400 who is in the City of Angels getting you the 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:20.240 coverage that you need and out there making it happen. 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:22.239 And have no fear. He will be back in the 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.400 studio soon enough. But in the meantime, we have a 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:27.600 very special guest in the studio with us today. He 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.000 goes by the name of Vladimir Gagic. He is an independent, 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:34.519 non partisan political and legal commentator. He's a former lawyer 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:38.560 and a social media influencer found online at Toxic vlad 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:41.400 that's t xikv la D. 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:43.159 So welcome to the show with thank you for having me. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:48.080 Yeah, I appreciate you coming on. And the crazy thing 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:50.839 about kind of the goings on right now around the 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.400 country is that one of the things that we were 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:57.760 concerned about when we did the episode on Project twenty 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:03.280 twenty five when we had to kind of cover the 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:07.360 rulings from the Supreme Court once Trump took office and 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:13.640 his attempts to circumvent certain rulings and ultimately limit the 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:15.919 powers of the courts. Is that for a lot of folks, 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.839 they don't really know what that means or how that looks. 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:24.240 People hear words like authoritarianism, they hear words like tyranny. 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:26.320 They hear all these sorts of things, and they sound 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:32.120 like scary words. But you know, there's a way that 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.200 folks can do this legally, and that Trump is doing this, 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:41.280 and the lay person who doesn't you know, work with, 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.560 you know, the law very closely, may not know about it. 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:47.000 So what we're going to do today is try to 0:01:47.160 --> 0:01:50.400 bring folks up to speed on what's happening and maybe 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:54.880 even what things folks can do to support their lawyers 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.640 as the lawyers support communities around the country, and so 0:01:57.760 --> 0:01:59.960 stick around for that and so much more. But before 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.320 we go any further, it is time, as always for 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:06.400 some Ebony excellence, and today's Ebney excellence comes from Black 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:10.920 Enterprise out of Charlotte, North Carolina. For those that know, 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.760 Charlotte is one of the country's premier cities for black 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:16.960 owned businesses, and a new effort from Kathy Dawkins and 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:21.600 other members of the Charlotte Mecklenburg Black Chamber of commerce 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.639 is set to create a hub designed specifically for those businesses. 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.799 According to The Charlotte Observer, the Chamber acquired an unused 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:33.160 property and has poured resources into transforming the building into 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.959 what Dawkins called a one stop shop for professionals in 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:41.040 small businesses and hopes of helping entrepreneurs, improving Charlotte's economic growth, 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.040 and fighting food insecurity. The Innovation Center, as the property 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.800 is now known, will feature an agritech program for farmers, 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.960 event spaces for businesses and business meetings, co working spaces 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:55.440 for startups, entrepreneurs, and nonprofits, as well as a retail 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:59.040 store and a distribution center for small businesses. The Chamber 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.840 spent approximately thirty thousand dollars to acquire the building and 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:04.360 is in the process of launching at three point seven 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:07.720 million dollar fundraising campaign to attract funding but the necessary 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.680 renovations to accommodate the chambers vision for the space, and 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:19.160 this obviously is very important, especially in trump two point 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:25.000 zero America, where things like this that you know, there 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:29.560 have historically been funds delineated for programs like this, community improvement, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:34.080 things like that, those sorts of things are limited, particularly 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.720 insofar as marginalized communities are concerned. So anybody doing anything 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.480 under this current administration, we want to make sure that 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:42.400 we shout them out. We also want to take the 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:44.800 time to shout out you know, North Carolina, it is 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.960 a resilient state and Charlotte is a resilient city. And 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:53.280 for those locally that tune into us on ninety eight 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:55.920 point seven every Sunday morning, So big shout out to 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:59.560 Charlotte for holding us down out there. All right, So 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:09.200 Vladimir Gagic there are Well, you know what, before we 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.240 get into the weeds here, we wanted people to know 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.880 who they're hearing from. So talk a little bit about yourself, 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:18.600 a little bit about your journey, and then we'll get 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:22.680 into the weeds, just so folks know, you know what 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.080 it is that you have to offer this conversation. 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:27.240 Well, thank you for having me on the show. Absolutely, 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:28.120 it's nice to be here. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.440 I was a former attorney. I was a lawyer for 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:34.360 about twenty years. I was born in Europe. My folks 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:38.599 are from the Old Country Eastern Europe, Yakaslavia. They escaped 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:41.280 communism back in the day. I was born in France. 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:45.000 We moved to Sunny Slope in the eighties, went to 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.000 school u of A University of Arizona two times, became 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:51.720 a lawyer in two thousand and two, and I've basically 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.520 been working as a criminal defense lawyers for twenty two 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.839 years until the last couple of years that changed, and 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.320 then I went on I want on social media just to. 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:04.839 Tell everybody would happen to me. Okay, that's where I am. 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:10.440 Well, I think twenty years certainly does qualify you to 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:12.719 help us make heads or tails of what's going on 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:17.800 nationally right now. Now. I also want to frame the 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:23.719 conversation we're about to have, because again, for folks that 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:27.200 don't know kind of what's going on nationally, for folks 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.920 that are just coming to this conversation, it certainly does help. 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.000 So you and I know each other through the National 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.640 Action Network, the Phoenix, Arizona chapter, but it is the 0:05:35.720 --> 0:05:38.520 National Action Network. It is all over the country, and 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:42.640 this is a Reverend Al Sharpton's sort of organization. So 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.880 they sent over a statement to me, and I want 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:48.479 to read it in its entirety because I think it 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.440 helps paint the picture for the conversation we're about to have. 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.600 So for those listening, buckle up. This is going to 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.120 be a bit of a read, all right. Attorneys from 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.160 across the country and even abroad have contacted the National 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:03.279 Action Network NIX Metro Chapter, sharing deeply troubling accounts of 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.880 disparate and often retaliatory treatment by their respective state bars. 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:09.920 While many of these stories involve the Arizona State Bar, 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.840 this is clearly a national issue, not a local one. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.600 We've heard from attorneys who were disciplined over minor clerical errors, 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.800 while others for more privileged backgrounds face no consequences for 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:23.320 more serious infractions. Some have been disbarred after whistleblowing or 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:27.159 representing marginalized clients. One attorney was sanctioned for using a 0:06:27.240 --> 0:06:30.479 routine format in a legal document. Another faced retaliation after 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:35.760 exposing prosecutorial misconduct. These stories share a common thread, a 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.520 lack of due process, selective enforcement, and an alarming lack 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.520 of transparency. Every day, new attorneys come forward asking to 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:43.920 have their stories told. This is not just about an 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.640 individual grievance, but it is a civil and human rights 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:51.159 issue affecting the integrity of our legal system. The NA 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:53.560 and Phoenix Metro Chapter will continue to raise these concerns 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:57.000 nationally and work to ensure these voices are not silenced. 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.160 Many of the attorneys who have come forward to the 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.479 National Action Network Phoenix Metro Chapter have not only been 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.920 disbarred or disciplined unjustly, but have also suffered devastating personal 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.600 and professional consequences as a result. When an attorney is disciplined, 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:15.040 especially without due process or for politically or racially motivated reasons, 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:19.000 the impact goes far beyond professional embarronment embarrassment. It affects 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:21.400 their ability to maintain a livelihood, to support their families, 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.680 and to serve the communities that rely on them. Their 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:28.360 client base often disappears overnight, and their reputation is irreparably damaged. 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.240 We've spoken with attorneys who have dedicated their entire lives 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.720 to this profession, some of whom have also served this 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:36.680 country and the armed forces. They upheld the law both 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:38.800 in the courtroom and on the battlefield, only to return 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:42.559 home and face institutional retaliation simply because they didn't align 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:44.920 with the Arizona State Bar's way of doing things. These 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:47.320 are not people who neglected their duties or violated ethics. 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:49.120 These or individuals who stood up for what is right, 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:53.720 who represented marginalized communities and who sometimes challenge power for 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:58.760 that they were targeted. This is a systemic problem that 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.400 raises serious civil and hu rites concerns, and it exactly 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:04.360 why ANA in Phoenix Metro continues to elevate these stories 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:07.040 and to ensure that attorneys are not signs for doing 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.160 the very thing the profession calls them to do advocate 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.400 for justice. Attorneys from across the country and even abroad, 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.679 have reached out to the National Action Network Phoenix Metro chapters, 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:18.480 sharing their personal experiences of unfair and disparate treatment by 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.280 state bar associations. This is not an isolated event. This 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:25.960 is widespread and each day we continue to receive new 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.760 accounts from attorneys whose careers and lives have been derailed. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:31.120 These stories must be heard, not just for justice to 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.040 be served in individual cases, but to ensure systemic accountability 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:38.559 and restore our faith and legal institutions. So a lot 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:42.280 of stuff going on. Obviously, the lens that we're viewing 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:44.600 the country is through the lens of Arizona based on 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:49.040 that document, But this is something that has been happening nationally. 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:53.520 So how this affects, you know, people on the ground. Obviously, 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.920 the topic of the day is you know, the protests 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:05.920 in Los Angeles, and on this show, we've covered Donald 0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:15.040 Trump's decisions to ignore the Supreme Court's rulings or circumvent 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:21.000 the rulings. Indeed, there was a conversation that we had recently. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.240 I had with a gentleman named Amy Horowitz, who is 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:29.720 a sort of a Fox News political pundit, and he 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.240 was surprised to learn that the Big Beautiful Bill has 0:09:32.920 --> 0:09:36.040 a section to actually seven zero three zero two which 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.319 seeks to limit the ability of the courts and the 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:45.480 Supreme Court from enforcing court orders, which would again limit 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:51.120 the power of the courts, but also allow more power 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.120 in the executive branch of the government. The president himself 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:57.959 would have more power. And you know, one of the 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:01.640 big things that happened over the weekend was Donald Trump 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.800 deploying the National Guard in the state of Los Angeles, 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.520 which is something typically that a governor would do. And 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.640 now Governor Newsom is suing him. So I guess the 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:18.120 question that we're going to start with is is this 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.040 something that why is this something that people should be 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:25.160 concerned about. Limiting the powers of the judicial branch and 0:10:25.360 --> 0:10:31.640 ignoring the executive branch, ignoring court orders by the legislative branch. 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:37.600 Well, I would say, in theory, we have three co 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.880 equal branches of government, and the idea is that the 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:47.080 courts interpret the law. But it's I forget which Supreme 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.240 Court justice or which president was. 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:52.840 I think it was actually Andrew Jackson. 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:54.720 You know there was a if you remember Andrew Jackson 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:56.800 from eighteen twenties, there's a court decision. 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.719 Yeah, I remember that guy, just the name, but he 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:01.320 said that commedy divisions. 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:05.920 Does the Supreme Court have the Supreme Court? The power 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:10.360 of the Supreme Court to enact its rulings is predicated 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.080 on a president who's willing to enforce it. 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:14.640 Sure, So in nineteen was in. 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.040 Nineteen fifty four or nineteen sixty four to Brown versus 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:17.800 Board of Education? 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:19.160 I think it was nineteen fifty. 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:23.720 Four, Eisenhower says, I'm going to enforce broad versus Board 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:25.439 of Education. I'm going to put I think it was 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:27.760 eighty second Airborne, one hundred first Airborne, and I'm going 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:32.480 to enforce these kids they can go to school. Because 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:36.160 if Eisenhower doesn't do that, nothing happens. So how concerns 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:40.640 should the public be ignoring? It should be very concerned 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:44.600 it should be very concerned. I will caveat that, and saying, though, 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.520 is he is he ignoring? I mean, can you say 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.400 genuinely that he's doing something different from other presidents? Like 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.040 what is the thing that Donald Trump has done or 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.880 the instrument administration has done that's different from other presidents. 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:04.080 Because as far as the National Guard goes, I distinctly 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.960 remember after the Rodney King riots that I think the Marines, 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:12.840 even from Camp Pendleton, were deployed in the Rodney King riots, 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:14.840 if I remember right, and that was President Busher did that. 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.080 Okay, so the president deployed the Marines, and the now 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:23.760 things are not the governor the Marines is doz. Yeah, 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:26.480 So that's actually and that was in nineteen I remember 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:27.400 Marines walking. 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.640 Through Indy streets in ninety two. You remember that during 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.480 the Rodney Kings, the Rodney King riots. So I don't 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:36.120 think that's on President Well in New Orleans too, I think. 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.560 So, So here's the thing you're going to know more 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:42.840 than I do and all of our listeners do. But 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:47.640 my understanding is that typically a governor calls out the 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:51.120 national Guard. So there may be what he federalized. 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.839 That's what happened in nineteen fifty four, the president federalizes 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.920 and because so this is actually Browns's board of education. 0:12:57.200 --> 0:12:59.320 The governor didn't want to call out the National Guard 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:01.760 because he was it was that one. 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:04.480 What's I know what you're talking about, you. 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.000 Know, siguration now seguration to Mars. 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:07.199 Yeah, I know. 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:08.079 He didn't want to do it. 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.960 He didn't want to let the integrate the schools, and 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:12.839 so the president needed to deploy the Star. 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.240 So that's so the ultimately, because I know I saw 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:20.240 that lawsuits like by Gavin Newsom got to me is 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:24.400 show like a governor can't sue the president and say 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.040 you can't use the army this way. Like the president 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:30.240 can bomb anybody he wants. He bombs Cambodia if he 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.120 wants to, He bombs Iran if he wants to. He 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:37.319 I think it's theatrics on his part, that's what That's 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:39.480 how I interpret it, because he is the commander in chief. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:47.200 Sure. Sure, So with that in mind, this this remember 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:51.840 when I talked about the big beautiful building section right, right, 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.760 So let's make that live a little bit more because 0:13:55.760 --> 0:14:00.880 that's been widely covered as almost like a secret like 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:07.720 back door, like a sneaky like provision or section or 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.760 whatever that many of the people that voted on it 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.720 didn't know about. It was rushed and it was like 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:15.880 really long, and then that was just kind of buried 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:17.360 in the middle, and it had nothing to do with 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.560 budgets or anything like that. It just kind of limited 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:26.040 the court's capacity to hold people that violated lawful orders 0:14:26.080 --> 0:14:29.440 in contempt, meaning that the president would be able to 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.200 or you know, anyone, anyone who aligns with the president. 0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.000 I'd imagined this is how it will be used, would 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:40.040 be able to go against a judge's ruling as long 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.840 as they're reacting behaving on behalf of the president, and 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:48.600 they would kind of exist outside of judicial reach. This 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.360 is sort of my basic level understanding of it. So 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:52.520 talk about that, right. 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.320 So the way I understood and looked up the law 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:58.120 is whoever is a plaineff? So this is talking about 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:02.040 like a pri a party. Let's say it's like someone 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:06.080 like the not thenac like the ACLU see somebody, right, 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:09.200 plan parent who sue somebody and the other side isn't 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:14.880 isn't falling the judge's order that the planiff, the private 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.360 party has to put up some amount of money to 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:20.200 make sure, it's insurance. Basically, it's what it's saying right. 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.080 The way around it, though, is the judge can just 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:27.600 make it a dollar. You can literally just say, all right, 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.800 the amount of money the planeff has to post for 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.240 me to enforced to have a contempt order is a dollar. 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.360 So it's not saying what the minimum amount is that 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:42.320 because there's a security provision, it's requiring security posted by 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:47.480 the planiff before any contempt order is issued. That's kind 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:51.720 of boiler plate. As far as I do criminal law, right, 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.520 I'm not a doorce lawyer. I don't see big law firms. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:56.200 I don't do any of that stuff. But when I 0:15:56.280 --> 0:16:02.600 did do a little bit of it, like like you know, 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:07.520 like forcible entry entertainers, that sort of stuff. A plaintiff 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.240 having to put like a bond to protect the other 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:15.680 guy in case something goes wrong. That's not Adolf Hitler 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:19.080 or Joseph Stalin. That's pretty straightforward stuff. 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.600 So if that's if that's the case, then why is 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:23.440 this buried? 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:24.360 I don't know. 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:28.560 In uh, you can never use much So how could 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:34.520 how about this? How could this benefit Trump? With what 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:42.040 many people feel is a very authoritative approach to my 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:43.040 way or the highway. 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:45.440 So I get and I understand what you're what the 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:50.160 question is, and the point being is that he's going 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:57.480 to ignore a judge's order. And the enforcement provision is 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.000 that a judge says, I'm going to hold you contempt 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:04.040 if you don't follow my order. And this makes it 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:08.080 harder for a judge to have a contemporaruling because he 0:17:08.119 --> 0:17:10.479 has the plane if has to post a bond. But 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.480 think about it, though, the problem Okay, so Trump is 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.280 using this this loophole, let's say, to ignore a judge's order. 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:22.400 He's ignoring a judge's order. What difference does it make 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.040 if that's really the case, if this dude, if this 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.280 president is King Trump and he doesn't care what a 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:33.520 judge says. Now, what difference does it make if it's 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.320 even easier for him to ignore an order? 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:37.760 Like what like he's ignoring an order. 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.200 Okay, But it's going to make him easier for ignoring order. Okay, 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:42.639 So it's going to make him easier for him to 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.679 do what he's already doing anyway, Like what's the well as. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.040 Far as I think that, I think that at least 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.040 for those of us who've been like paying a little 0:17:52.040 --> 0:18:00.600 bit of attention. Donald Trump is still somewhat mindful of 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:07.560 the fact that he is playing a game that involves 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:12.520 all of us. And if he can appear decent enough, 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:16.480 if he can gives optics, if he can give people 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.960 enough cover to say, see, he's still a good guy. 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:20.320 Right. 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:22.640 If Donald Trump went and like chopped the head off 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.439 of a baby and everyone saw it happen, then he 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.679 would obviously everyone would turn on him. Right, That's an 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:32.520 evil thing to do objectively, Right, But if Donald Trump said, 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.679 you know, if he manipulated the optics somehow, you know, 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:39.200 there's a group of people that need to believe Donald 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:42.000 Trump's version of the truth, whether or not it's the 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.160 shared reality for all of us. Right, and he does 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.200 this in real time, he will change the optics of 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:52.560 the narrative in real time. And so my estimation is 0:18:52.600 --> 0:18:58.760 that something like this might serve to provide him some cover, 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.480 something to fall back on, something to you know whatever. 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.320 And again, if he's ruling, one of the things that 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:08.000 he did initially when he was signing all the executive 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:14.320 orders was, you know, when judges would would hold up 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:19.199 his executive orders with lawsuits or rulings or whatever, he 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:23.359 would start to say, oh, well, this judge is an American, 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.920 this judge is you know, somehow it would be the 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:31.240 judges a personal attack on the judge, rather than accepting 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.680 and respecting the fact that this is a coequal branch 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.080 of government and this is a kill that the administration 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.040 has to we have to meet this challenge, and you know, 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.240 and so forth. So so, having something buried in a 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.480 in a budget bill like this feels a little sneaky. 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:50.760 And maybe it's to that end, but you know, I 0:19:50.760 --> 0:19:51.880 don't know, so your thoughts. 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.760 So just let me say one caveaty or disclaimers. I 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:55.560 hate judges. 0:19:56.200 --> 0:19:57.679 I absolutely hate judges. 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.920 I think judges are the lowest form of life on wow. 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:04.800 So any so, not pro Trump, not anti Trump, none 0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:07.600 of that. Anything that has judges on one side and 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:09.640 anybody else on the other side, I'm going to side 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.960 with the other side, all right. I don't care snake 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.040 oil salesman. I'm with the snake oil sales. I don't 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.520 care who the other side is. I will never ever 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:19.120 take side with judges. 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:24.480 Ever, will you? Will you admit that in this country 0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:29.600 that framework that was established by the Frown founding fathers 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:34.680 based off of previous empires, going back perhaps to the 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:37.959 dawn of civilization, where you know, this society learned from 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.479 society society before and so forth and so on. We 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:42.359 got to where we are, and this is a newer 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.880 country in terms of like superpowers. We got the sum 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:49.119 total of all that human knowledge and all these great societies, 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.640 and our founding fathers built this country based on that, 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:56.000 so that this empire could last, you know, like five 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.000 thousand years, like a China or something like that. Right, 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.919 And so far it worked, and so far there hasn't 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:05.879 been any challenges to the foundation of the country like 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:10.960 this one. So would you at least would you allow 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:14.240 for judges to have some place in society. 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:16.560 I think it's been recent. 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:20.199 I think, you know, my disdain for judges and the judiciary, 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.240 it's very very recent. I think, you know, I started 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:25.639 practicing in two thousand and two, thought that all the 0:21:25.720 --> 0:21:28.359 judges back two thousand and two pretty much up until 0:21:28.359 --> 0:21:33.640 twenty fifteen or so ish, were awesome, just awesome, straight shooters, 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:35.480 like it really worked the way it's supposed to. 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:37.959 So I think just recently it's changed. 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:44.280 So what changed. I think the Russia Gates stuff had 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:46.399 a lot to do with it personally. I think, personally, 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.480 for me, just with my own background and my own name, 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.440 having to share the same first name as the president 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:57.680 of Russia, I think the Russia, Russia, Russia, Russia all 0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:00.440 the time. I think I felt that personally. I think 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.040 I felt with my name, I'm always the bad guy, 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.879 no matter what, like literally, no matter what, I'm always 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:08.400 the bad guy. And I think judges are just as 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:10.080 partisan as anybody else. 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:15.119 Oh okay, okay, I see what you're saying. So the judges, Yeah, okay, gotcha, Yeah, 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.119 that makes sense all right. Now now for the people. 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:21.919 For the people, talk like, give us your reaction to 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:30.480 maybe Trump's general approach to how about this when we'll 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:32.960 call it, half the country is half the country, for 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:38.040 the most part, voted for Kamala Harris. Half the country 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:40.240 voted for Donald Trump. It's typically the way that things 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:45.800 like that go. Democrats famously lost a lot of They 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:51.400 lost the White House and then lost the races in 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:58.560 the Senate and the House, and everything after that became 0:22:58.920 --> 0:23:01.760 at least for a moment, Okay, Now our fight goes 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:03.840 to the courts. Democrats are going to take their fights 0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:08.600 to the courts, and for a lot of people that 0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:12.399 really respect the two party system in this country, or 0:23:12.440 --> 0:23:18.320 people that respect the coequal branches of government, people that 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:23.199 expect and respect a democracy where people have voices and 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:25.920 they can say how they feel, air out their grievances. 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:28.440 All these people that respect the constitution and so forth, 0:23:29.640 --> 0:23:32.280 things have worked. And when Democrats are down, there are 0:23:32.320 --> 0:23:35.199 still some recourse, there's some path for them to be 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:41.679