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Speaker 1: Hello, Brian Goldsmith. Hi, Katie Kirk. Well, I know you

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Speaker 1: are very, very excited about our I can't even contain myself. Seriously,

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Speaker 1: we're going to be talking to Stan Greenberg. Why don't

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Speaker 1: you give a quick bio of stand for our listeners. Brian, Well,

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Speaker 1: he's definitely in the Polster Hall of Fame, which is

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Speaker 1: visited slightly less frequently than the Baseball Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 1: Who that sounds like a fun saturday, you know for

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Speaker 1: some of us he was. He was the top polster

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Speaker 1: for President Bill Clinton, Al Gore in two thousand, Tony

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Speaker 1: Blair in the u K. Nelson Mandela Israeli Prime Minister

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Speaker 1: Edhud Barack. He's really had an amazing career, both as

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Speaker 1: an academic and as a political strategist, and he has

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Speaker 1: spent a lot of time recently talking to one time

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Speaker 1: Democrats and Obama supporters who switched to back Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: Would you say he's a wise man who says only

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Speaker 1: fools Russian? But Brian can't help alright, I'm getting a

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Speaker 1: little jealous. Actually, I think he's a fascinating guy and

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Speaker 1: it was fun to talk to him about everything what

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Speaker 1: happened in the two thousand and sixteen election, and most importantly,

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Speaker 1: how people are feeling about Donald Trump these days, specifically

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Speaker 1: people in Macomb County in Michigan. He really has his

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Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of people who are white working

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Speaker 1: class voters and how they're feeling about Donald Trump. Today.

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Speaker 1: We're also going to hear from a voter in Chicago,

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Speaker 1: a lifelong Democrat who supported Obama who switched to Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump last year. Find out what she thinks about how

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Speaker 1: he's doing in office. And uh, we'll get to that

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Speaker 1: in a little bit. But first here Stan Greenberg. Stan Greenberg,

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Speaker 1: it is such a thrill to have you on our podcast,

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Speaker 1: and I have to tell you my friend Brian Goldsmith

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Speaker 1: is completely gegeging out right now. Why Brian, Because if

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Speaker 1: you care about politics and polling, you know Stan is

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Speaker 1: a bit of an icon in those worlds. He's probably

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Speaker 1: the most important progressive poster ever and he has some

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Speaker 1: really interesting stuff to say about the voters who supported

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump. So I'm really excited about this conversation. But

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Speaker 1: stand before I'm with you, well, but before we talk

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Speaker 1: about this latest focus group that you did in Macomb County,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to ask you quickly Stan, you have

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Speaker 1: a very impressive CV, I must say, for somebody who

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Speaker 1: is in this line of work, can you just tell

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Speaker 1: us briefly kind of how you got here. Well, it

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Speaker 1: certainly wasn't part of any plan. And I always thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was going to be a professor. I

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Speaker 1: got my PhD. I began teaching very early at you know,

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Speaker 1: at Yale. You know, I was very active politically, but

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Speaker 1: my academic life was separate, um, you know, from my

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Speaker 1: you know, political you know work. So I began studying

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Speaker 1: what was happening in poor neighborhoods and working people, you know,

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Speaker 1: at at an early end, at early point. And gerally

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Speaker 1: broke through in politics with the study you did in

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Speaker 1: of the so called Reagan Democrats. I mean, some people

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Speaker 1: have given you credit for inventing that term, but these

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Speaker 1: were people who historically had voted for Jack Kennedy, for

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Speaker 1: Lyndon Johnson, even for Jimmy Carter, and they broke for

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan. And you were sent there to investigate why

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Speaker 1: and how that happened. And can you tell us a

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Speaker 1: little bit about what you learned then? In I was

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Speaker 1: while I was still teaching a Gale Um, I was

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Speaker 1: asked by the U a W and the Michigan Democratic

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Speaker 1: Party try to understand the Reagan Democrats starting in McComb County,

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Speaker 1: and McComb County was a one of the most democratic,

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Speaker 1: unionized Catholic counties that have voted overwhelmingly for John Kennedy UM,

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Speaker 1: but cast a very big vote for Ronald Reagan and

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Speaker 1: really shattered UM for the North. A lot of illusions

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Speaker 1: UM about where the party stand and how they'll be

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Speaker 1: shaped in the future and stand in a way, was

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Speaker 1: this election like deja vu all over again? Yeah, I wrote,

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Speaker 1: I wrote. I wrote a piece after you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: Obama's election in which I basically said, goodbye Macomb County,

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Speaker 1: you know, because we have this first African American president

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Speaker 1: who carried McComb County. And so if that was true,

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Speaker 1: it's it's obviously time to move on. Particularly if you

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Speaker 1: look in Oakland County, which was the affluent suburb next door,

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Speaker 1: you wish it was an even much bigger majority for

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Speaker 1: or Democrats. And so the signal was We've done a

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Speaker 1: lot to win, you know, to win these kinds of voters.

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Speaker 1: But you know, but if you look at what's happening

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Speaker 1: in the most affluent and best educated parts of the country.

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Speaker 1: Democrats are building up bigger and bigger majorities. They are

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Speaker 1: also becoming more diverse, you know, more you know, immigrant

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Speaker 1: and ethnic as well. UM in the future lies there. Well,

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Speaker 1: Macomb had a you know, made its point now because

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Speaker 1: the margin in MacComb in two thousand and sixteen was

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Speaker 1: by far bigger than the statewide margin that Trump won

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Speaker 1: UM and part of him winning and this say is

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Speaker 1: something really interesting about our politics more broadly, because you

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Speaker 1: have working class Macomb County, Michigan, which is historically Democratic,

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Speaker 1: and that went for Trump by almost twelve points. And then,

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Speaker 1: as you mentioned next story, you've got more upscale, business

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Speaker 1: oriented Oakland County, which is historically Republican, and that went

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Speaker 1: for Hillary by eight. And so you've had almost this

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Speaker 1: flip in our politics where the the kind of the

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Speaker 1: auto executives are now voting Democratic and the former line

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Speaker 1: workers are voting Republican. Yeah, which is why I decided

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Speaker 1: to go back to Macomb and all and to listen

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Speaker 1: to these voters. The I decided we can organize for

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Speaker 1: you know, groups with all Trump voters, all were working

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Speaker 1: class white Trump voters UM in an environment where they

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Speaker 1: would be comfortable speaking about their lives, you know, and

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Speaker 1: their values and uh and you know, and try to

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Speaker 1: make sure they get hurt again. I know. It's very

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Speaker 1: clear that they have not second guess that vote. That

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Speaker 1: very strong, you know reasons and you know why they

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Speaker 1: cast the vote for Donald Trump, you know, but they

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Speaker 1: feel under assault. They trust him, you know, but they

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Speaker 1: you know, they feel the country, um is so polarized

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Speaker 1: that the opponents have not accepted the election results. Give

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Speaker 1: him a chance is almost the first thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: out of out of their mouth. And they still think

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Speaker 1: we're in a period where he's trying to govern and

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Speaker 1: they feel like they're under assault in their own families,

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Speaker 1: in their own commun reduce their own kids. Well, let's

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Speaker 1: drill down a little stand on how you conducted these

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Speaker 1: focus groups. You conducted four and all? Is that right? Um?

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Speaker 1: I did? I did? And the focus group that worked

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Speaker 1: is homogeneous. It's comfortable and you know, and people feel

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Speaker 1: revealing dynamics that they would not otherwise do. It's actually

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Speaker 1: you know, you know how I started initially when I

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Speaker 1: did the Macomb focus herps because I would have only

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Speaker 1: union people, only men, you know, working class, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: are non union and and them feeling free to talk

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Speaker 1: about it. And at that point that was really that

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Speaker 1: was you know, Republicans had been doing focused but this

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Speaker 1: was kind of new UM, and so I was kind

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Speaker 1: of inventing that methodology, you know at that time. But

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Speaker 1: I but I almost had to like go back and

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Speaker 1: say start over, you know, the you know, I listened

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Speaker 1: to the focus groups and other people are doing and

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Speaker 1: they're testing different attacks on Trump. You know what, these

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Speaker 1: voters really do want to be heard, and they do

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Speaker 1: have reasons why they voted the way they did, and

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Speaker 1: so I thought it was really important to listen to them,

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Speaker 1: not fight them, you know, let them, you know, express

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Speaker 1: their views on why UM, and then we can get

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Speaker 1: to the question of, you know, how you can begin

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Speaker 1: to win them back. And I'm so curious to hear

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Speaker 1: your views on the differences and similarities between these Macomb

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Speaker 1: County voters thirty years ago and today, because thirty years

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Speaker 1: ago you wrote at length about how they believe Democrats

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Speaker 1: were serving special interests. UM. There was a heavy racial

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Speaker 1: component to the way that they had felt alienated from

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Speaker 1: the National Democratic Party. They felt like it was out

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Speaker 1: of step with their cultural values that welfare money was

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Speaker 1: going to other people, not them. Were these some of

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Speaker 1: the same motivations behind their support for Trump and their

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Speaker 1: their feelings of alienation from the establishment or was there

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Speaker 1: something different happening? Now? Yeah, I mean something very different.

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Speaker 1: First of all, what not what's not different is their

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Speaker 1: hostility of the establishment, hostility to be able empower both

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Speaker 1: corporate power and political power. They're very much focused on

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Speaker 1: political leaders who have sold them out, you know, for

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Speaker 1: special interests, cut bad trade deals for America while their jobs,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're lost. And so there's a commonality to

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Speaker 1: the kind of political economic argument that no one is

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Speaker 1: recognizing it, and you know, and fighting that race was

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Speaker 1: just so central. Detroit was central. Um the black politicians,

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Speaker 1: you know that they talked about who were dominant in

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Speaker 1: in politics in Michigan. They would talk about how you know,

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Speaker 1: they used their power over with Michigan government in America, uh,

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Speaker 1: the U. S government, you know, to make government work

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Speaker 1: for them. Affirmative Action was you know, aimed at you know,

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Speaker 1: at them. They paid a real prices um they believed

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Speaker 1: um for you know, government, you know, policy. And so

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Speaker 1: race was absolutely central. So if race was central, then

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Speaker 1: what is central now? Stan immigration and Islam. Immigration, as

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Speaker 1: you recall, was the number one issue that the first

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Speaker 1: issue that Trump ran on, and I was focused on Mexicans,

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Speaker 1: and but he was focused on an undocumented and you know,

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Speaker 1: not having control your borders, citizens, not having preference over

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Speaker 1: non citizens. What he was doing, what Trump was doing

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Speaker 1: and saying this was his central issue, and he was

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Speaker 1: the only one willing to speak about it, both in

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Speaker 1: the primary and in the general. So I think part

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Speaker 1: of what you're saying is politics in Macomb County is

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Speaker 1: still about us versus them. Them is just no longer

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Speaker 1: African Americans. It's it's Muslims, it's immigrants who are documented

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Speaker 1: or undocumented. And the Democrats need to come up with

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Speaker 1: a message on immigration that resonates with working class people

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Speaker 1: who feel like they've lost out. And I want to

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Speaker 1: just interject because I read an interesting column stand and

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Speaker 1: I think Brian, you and I discussed it that was

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times that said the mistake for

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Speaker 1: Democrats and liberal Democrats is to say all immigration is good.

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Speaker 1: Remember Brian, we talked about that column and that it's

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Speaker 1: much more complex and for them not to say we

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Speaker 1: have to tackle this issue one way or another. They

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Speaker 1: do that at their peril. Do you agree with that stand? Yes,

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Speaker 1: I agree. I agree that Democrats have to have to

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Speaker 1: have a perspective on immigration because we, in fact our

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Speaker 1: advocates of immigration, people are very comfortable with a system

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Speaker 1: of comprehensive reform that that's managed and has controls and

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Speaker 1: demands responsibility that people get in the queue they learn

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Speaker 1: English that in that context, they are willing to support

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Speaker 1: immigration that increases immigration. Democrats are going to be for immigration.

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Speaker 1: We think it's a better country. We believe in a

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Speaker 1: multicultural country. We believe in finding unity out of diversity.

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Speaker 1: But as you said, stand not completely unfettered with some

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Speaker 1: kind of structure, some kind of responsibility, some kind of

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Speaker 1: system in place. Yes, and they, I mean they people

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Speaker 1: are very open to reform that increases immigration, but in

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Speaker 1: a context where they are rules and we're and we're legal,

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Speaker 1: immigrants have precedence over you know, illegal citizens over non citizens. Um.

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Speaker 1: And that's a normal thing to want and expect in

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Speaker 1: any society. But this gets to a bigger issue about

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Speaker 1: the difference between perception and reality, because the reality is

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Speaker 1: that immigration and trade two of the real bugaboos for

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Speaker 1: the voters you studied have been positives for this country

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Speaker 1: if you look at all of the data on income

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Speaker 1: and jobs, but they're perceived as very negative by a

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Speaker 1: lot of voters who are critical and presidential elections. And

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that struck me about

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Speaker 1: the report you wrote is that you know, these voters,

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Speaker 1: you said, except Trump's version of the news and the facts.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, on the one end, you've got

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Speaker 1: real news and real facts, you have fake news and

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Speaker 1: fake facts, and it seems like the latter are winning out. Well, look,

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Speaker 1: there is a there is a reality um that these

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Speaker 1: voters that America's dealing with. I mean, we have, you know, increasingly,

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Speaker 1: you know, farm population thirty seven pers in New York

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Speaker 1: City is far and born. I think you know, it's

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Speaker 1: about thirty five percent of California's you know is far

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Speaker 1: is farign Born. And all those numbers are growing. There's

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Speaker 1: a huge growth in migration globally, one in five of

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Speaker 1: migrants globally or in the United States. There is a

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Speaker 1: big growth of farm population and it's change. Asian population

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Speaker 1: has grown dramatically as well, obviously, as well as Hispanic

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Speaker 1: and there is a you know, it's part of what

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Speaker 1: America is and if we are actually going to get

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Speaker 1: the most out of it and be economically competitive, we

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Speaker 1: also have to manage it. And by the way, when

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Speaker 1: we presented to this focus group with Coca colad you know,

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Speaker 1: in which they had America the Beautiful sung you know,

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Speaker 1: in multiple languages, because we use that as a you know,

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Speaker 1: a test for sassacious guys. Lasting gu about half kind

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Speaker 1: of accepted it with you know that, you know the

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Speaker 1: and we're comfortable with it. You know, some I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: that's the way it should be. We're gonna be unified,

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Speaker 1: We're you know the so you know so that Now, look,

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Speaker 1: there's some that aren't going to be. But there's a

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Speaker 1: you know, a significant number that you know, they're living

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Speaker 1: in America that is amority majority. I know that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know that ad you're referring to. And it's sort

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Speaker 1: of a celebration of pluralism. And what you're saying is

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Speaker 1: some of the folks you were talking to celebrated it,

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Speaker 1: but plenty of them didn't and felt that this pluralism

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Speaker 1: quote unquote is threatening to the country and to its values.

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Speaker 1: Let's remember the countrywide, you know, about two to one

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Speaker 1: people believe immigrants are helpful to the country, not that

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Speaker 1: they create a heavy burden on jobs and public services.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, you need to cut across race

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Speaker 1: on this because it's you know, lot of African American

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Speaker 1: groups that I do. There's you know, there's concern about

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Speaker 1: you know, immigration as well. Don't assume it's only white

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Speaker 1: working class voters, you know, who are focused on this.

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Speaker 1: This has been such a tumultuous period. It seems to

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Speaker 1: me if you listen to the news, radio, television, you

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Speaker 1: read your information online. But most accounts indicate that Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump has had a very tough few weeks. Russia, wire

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Speaker 1: tapping his tweets, healthcare reform, alienating allies, striking deals with companies,

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Speaker 1: turmoil and the White House. Uh, you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of infighting, leaks, unprecedented leaks happening. But these voters, um,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to be affecting them because there's no

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Speaker 1: buyer's remorse, is there. Well, look, let's let's accept that

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Speaker 1: it's two months into this, even as tumultuos, as crazy

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Speaker 1: as this period is, you know, it's still two months

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Speaker 1: and they look, they think there's a civil war in

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Speaker 1: the country. They think that people that are protesting, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the streets, you know, or just to have not

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Speaker 1: accepted the election. And so they still think that they

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Speaker 1: are trying to stop him from governing successfully. And they're

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Speaker 1: not convinced Republicans and Congress are really for him either.

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Speaker 1: They feel in casting their vote for Trump, they were

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Speaker 1: voting for huge change. It was a major slap in

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Speaker 1: the face at the establishment of both parties, and they're

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Speaker 1: looking for big, big, big change. They could be disillusioned,

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Speaker 1: you know, but not now. Certainly. When I did these groups,

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Speaker 1: you know, a few weeks ago, this you know, this

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Speaker 1: is still playing out in their minds. And my guess

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Speaker 1: is when we go out and listen to voters and

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Speaker 1: again in the next couple of weeks, that will still

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Speaker 1: be true. You know, that they are defending the you know,

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Speaker 1: their vote for Trump. So I think this will erode

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Speaker 1: it in time, but not now. And this goes to

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Speaker 1: an interesting question stand about how they're going to judge

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Speaker 1: President Trump moving forward. That is, does he actually need

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Speaker 1: to deliver for them personally in order to be perceived

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Speaker 1: as successful by them? You know, I actually do think

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Speaker 1: it needs to deliver. I mean, I don't think they

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Speaker 1: were faked into vote voting for Trump. They think he's

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Speaker 1: a strong leader, they think he'll go after the establishment.

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Speaker 1: But i've you know, but there's some evidence here that

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Speaker 1: if in fact, the health care law you know, ends

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Speaker 1: up making I mean they're I mean they're counting health

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Speaker 1: their premiums, they're deductibles to the penny, and they go

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Speaker 1: around the room. I mean, they know what their healthcare costs,

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Speaker 1: what their insurance cost they they're they're not going to

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Speaker 1: be fooled by health care plan you know that raises

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Speaker 1: their deductibles. You know, they think he's gonna make health care,

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Speaker 1: their insurance both better and cheaper and more affordable. And

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Speaker 1: if that doesn't happen, Stan, I thought it was interesting

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Speaker 1: that your reports said they would blame Congress, not Donald Trump. Well,

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Speaker 1: they blame Congress if if nothing happens, I think if

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Speaker 1: you know the you know, I think there, yes, I

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Speaker 1: think the reason to think that they will blame Congress

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Speaker 1: because they you know, they we put pictures of Ryan

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Speaker 1: and McConnell there for them to look at it, and

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Speaker 1: they're really quite hostile to them, and they know they

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Speaker 1: you know, that the establishment didn't support him, and so

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Speaker 1: I think they have a ready interpretation for stuff not

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Speaker 1: getting done. But I don't think that's the same thing

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Speaker 1: as if they actually passed this Ryan bill in the House.

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Speaker 1: Once you've passed that and he's fought for it, I

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Speaker 1: think maybe I think he owns the specifics of it

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Speaker 1: in very different ways. Obviously, if it were to be enacted.

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Speaker 1: If in fact, the healthcare replacement is what Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: has supported and ultimately it hurts those voters rather than

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Speaker 1: helps them, do you think they'll have a change of

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Speaker 1: heart about him specifically? Yes, I do, And I keep

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Speaker 1: in mind, these are if you look at the voters

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Speaker 1: who came out for you know, Trump, they are about

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Speaker 1: half of them are you know, we're ad voted for Obama,

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Speaker 1: but about half of them hadn't voted in the in

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Speaker 1: the twelve presidential election. So he brought out people that

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Speaker 1: were new voters. Not a new registrants, but you know,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of new voters. You know that he

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Speaker 1: really got their attention, you know, particularly in the rust

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Speaker 1: belt where he promised him change on trade and immigrate

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Speaker 1: and other things and and and repealing and replacing the

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Speaker 1: Affordable care at I think that, you know, they're more

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Speaker 1: likely to not vote than and certainly in the off year.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's gonna be I think challenging for Republicans

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Speaker 1: to get these voters to come vote, to support the

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Speaker 1: Republican members of Congress, you know, to make sure they

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Speaker 1: can stay there, you know, doing Trump's agenda, because they

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Speaker 1: don't think they're with him on his agenda. They don't

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Speaker 1: like them, they don't they view them as part of

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Speaker 1: the establishment who fought you know, fought him so so

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Speaker 1: I think the first effect, you know, is to pullback

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Speaker 1: from the Republicans in Congress, which hurts in the midterms.

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Speaker 1: The second effect is just to disengage, you know, because

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Speaker 1: they were you know, when they began to see the

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Speaker 1: negatives that we were testing, you could you know, I

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Speaker 1: felt almost I felt badly having presented them because some

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Speaker 1: of them got really angry, saying that means they're not

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Speaker 1: going to be any change. You know, if this is true,

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Speaker 1: there's not going to be any change, and they won't change.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take quick break and when we come back,

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Speaker 1: we're actually going to hear from a voter in Chicago

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Speaker 1: who was a staunch Democrat her entire life and jump

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Speaker 1: ship for this election and is very passionate about Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: and stand will get your reaction to her feelings. That's

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Speaker 1: right after this, we're back with Polster Extraordinaire Stan Greenberg.

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Speaker 1: Do you like that title? Is that what your cards are?

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Speaker 1: Stand Change, I'll change my website. Well, let's talk to

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Speaker 1: someone who supported Donald Trump in the election. Her name

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Speaker 1: is Janet Saulisbury. She's from Chicago. She is white, she's

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Speaker 1: a single mom, and she's not the classic rural, white

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Speaker 1: working class voter. But she has a lot to say

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Speaker 1: about weis she switched from Barack Obama to Donald Trump. Janet,

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Speaker 1: are you on the line. I'm here, nice to talk

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Speaker 1: to you. Thank you so much for spending some time

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Speaker 1: with us on our podcast. Tell us about why you

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Speaker 1: decided to vote for Donald Trump and why you still

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Speaker 1: support him. Um, you know, it was I've been a

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Speaker 1: lifelong Democrat, grew up in an Irish Democratic Catholic family. Um,

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Speaker 1: so it was a very very difficult decision. But it

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Speaker 1: was actually summer when I was at a reunion with

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Speaker 1: my college friends, and it was right when Trump had

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Speaker 1: come down the escalator and everybody was just kind of

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Speaker 1: like making a joke about it, and it sort of

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Speaker 1: just to think, you know, and um, the more and

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Speaker 1: more people like ruled him out, I started listening a

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Speaker 1: little bit more to him and then saw the whole

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Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders Hillary thing go on. And I'm probably in

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Speaker 1: the category of what woman call exasperated. Um and so yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was exasperation. I felt nobody's listening to me,

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Speaker 1: nobody's trying to reach out to me and my concerns. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so I just it was a shaker. So it

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Speaker 1: was let's shake it up because what we're doing isn't working.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things you were most concerned about

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Speaker 1: was your health care. Oh absolutely, Um. I worked for

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Speaker 1: a very small family health company. UM. So we don't

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Speaker 1: you know, our health plans change year to year, and

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Speaker 1: I'm lucky that I do have some employee contribution to

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Speaker 1: my health care, but I still pay a fair amount um.

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Speaker 1: And I have a lot of I have a couple

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Speaker 1: of friends who are like in business, other women in

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Speaker 1: the business for themselves and just the way that their

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Speaker 1: costs have been skyrocketing the last three years. UM. And

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Speaker 1: nobody was willing to admit that Obamacare are Affordable Health

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Speaker 1: Care Act isn't working and it needs to be fixed,

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Speaker 1: you know. And and and then then one day when Bill

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Speaker 1: Clinton stood up and I saw it on the news

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Speaker 1: and he said, it's not working. The deductibles are skyrocking,

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Speaker 1: the premiums are skyrocking. I thought, finally, finally someone's you know,

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Speaker 1: hearing what's going on. So hey, Janet, I'm I'm Brian

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Speaker 1: and Katie's co host, and I was just curious, how

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Speaker 1: do you think about the way the media is covering

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Speaker 1: President Trump right now? Um? You know, I have a

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Speaker 1: hard time. I'm kind of a news junkie. UM, so

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Speaker 1: I used to watch a lot of it. I'm just

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Speaker 1: having a hard time even watching it because I just

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Speaker 1: think it's so unfair. Um. You know, they're just like

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Speaker 1: running after the latest Twitter for the latest thing, and

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Speaker 1: just I just want to say, chill, just step back,

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Speaker 1: and UM, I think it's just making it even more

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Speaker 1: divisive than ever. So I'm very frustrated with that. Stan,

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Speaker 1: is that how a lot of your folks you talked

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Speaker 1: to him Macomb County felt God And you know, indeed,

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Speaker 1: I mean the same. I think the same level kind

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Speaker 1: of frustration with the with mainstream news. And it's not

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Speaker 1: likely they're going to other news it's more of a

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Speaker 1: you know, turn it off, come on, but they I

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Speaker 1: think it's I think it's exactly capture is exactly right,

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Speaker 1: which is people have not settled. The election is a

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Speaker 1: civil war going out there, you know, give him a chance.

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Speaker 1: Ll Do you have anything you'd like to ask Janet

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Speaker 1: stan Well, what I'm actually focused on is, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you're watching what's happening now on healthcare, you know,

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Speaker 1: given how important healthcare was, you know, to your vote,

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Speaker 1: and the costs and high deductibles, which is exactly what

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Speaker 1: people were struggling with, and the Yeah, I absolutely am

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Speaker 1: watching that, um. But I am turning it off. A

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Speaker 1: lot of other times when I hear Russia, I turn

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Speaker 1: it off, um, because that's just to me, that's a distraction.

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Speaker 1: That's just throwing a firecracker up in the air and

428
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: making everybody look over there. But I am watching the healthcare.

429
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: I am concerned about what I've heard so far about

430
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm fifty eight years old and I'm you know,

431
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 1: like how people in my age group are come out

432
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: on the short end of the stick. But I haven't

433
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: seen a lot of specifics, and maybe I haven't searched

434
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: them out UM, yeah, I am concerned, and that's I

435
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,639
Speaker 1: am definitely watching that with a very close eye. And

436
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 1: if you don't like a health care plan that Donald

437
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: Trump is supporting, do you think that will be something

438
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: Janet that will change your mind or will you stick

439
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: with him on other issues? UM? I'm kind of a

440
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: wait and see to give it time. UM. I keep

441
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: looking at what was the alternative, and I think the

442
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: alternative would have been gridlock too, But you know, I

443
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: don't know. I'll just have to see what I want

444
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: to see this fleshed out a little bit more. Jenny,

445
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: Can I ask you a question about the budget that

446
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: President Trump put out recently. I'm not sure if you

447
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: follow the news on this, but a lot of the cut,

448
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: a lot of the cuts in that budget, you know,

449
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: affect Trump voters. There are cuts and after school programs

450
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: and counter terror programs and rural development and job training.

451
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,439
Speaker 1: You know, it's not just the National Endowment for the

452
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: Arts and foreign aid and traditional areas that m Republicans

453
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: go after. And so I was curious whether that budget

454
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: seemed like a series of good ideas to you or

455
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 1: did it cause you to question at all your support

456
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: for the president? Um? I frankly, I haven't heard a

457
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: lot about it. I mean, unfortunately, I think you know, again,

458
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 1: this is where I kind of like get like the media,

459
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 1: because I'm I'm hearing is, you know, sesame streets out

460
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: and um, different things like that. I have a nineteen

461
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: year old son, so sesame street being out really doesn't

462
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: like play highly into my verdiculous. But then I hear

463
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: things about like meals on wheels, and I know so

464
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 1: many people. I mean, my mom, you know, God rest

465
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: her so but when she was like she used to

466
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: help deliver her wheels on meals or meals on wheels,

467
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,919
Speaker 1: and I know that that's like like more than just

468
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,400
Speaker 1: providing food to people, it's also you know, giving them

469
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: a lifeline of support. So those types of things concerned me.

470
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not like a conservative Republican. I've always

471
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: been more of a moderate Democrat. Um, So I think

472
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: there needs to be some entitlements, um, but those types

473
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: of things to concern me. I wanted to ask one

474
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: last question because Brian stan and I Janet we're talking

475
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: about this. It seems to me for the past week

476
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: and a half or so, since there was a Twitter

477
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: storm about President Obama, wire tapping Trump tower. The media

478
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: has been very, very focused on that allegation, and I'm

479
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: curious if allegations like those and other things are not

480
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: proven true or don't have any basis in fact, would

481
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,959
Speaker 1: that change your opinion of Donald Trump? Or is it

482
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: just not significant enough for you? This is not significant

483
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 1: to me. I mean, that's just again a distraction, Um,

484
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: I kind of you know, kind of operating the world

485
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,919
Speaker 1: that assume every email could be read, assume everything. So I, um,

486
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: it's just not a big deal to me, And I

487
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: think that I just want them to get to work.

488
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: I voted for Trump as a wake up call. I

489
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: thought it would be a wake up hall for both

490
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: the Democrats and Republicans to get their act together. And

491
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: there's still little children fighting over the sand box. So well,

492
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: I think stan is Janet pretty representative of the voters

493
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: with whom you spoke. I think she looks these people.

494
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 1: I mean, and I appreciate Janet being so frank about it.

495
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: They're at the edge economically, they're you know, they're they're

496
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: struggling there, and they're angry about a politicians and politics

497
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 1: that just doesn't listen to them, hasn't listened to them,

498
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: you know, in years and finally someone has spoken to it.

499
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: And there are issues that are really central and healthware

500
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: you know is you know, is one of them, and

501
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: then it raised it. It was a critical piece and

502
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: maybe the dominant piece, you know, in terms of what

503
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: people raised on their own terms of you know, why

504
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 1: they voted the way and they they're watching. I believe

505
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: they're watching what's happening there. I think they see the

506
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: other stuff. I mean, first of all, they trust him

507
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: on interpreting you know, you know, events and facts and

508
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: what news is right and what facts we should trust.

509
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: They think so much of this is about the nine him,

510
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: the opportunity to bring change um and not accepting the

511
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: election result. And so I think it's probably being interpreted

512
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 1: in that context, even though I understand that you know,

513
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: you're accusing someone of a of a felony is an

514
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: extraordinary thing. But I think for voters, it's what's happening

515
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: on bringing American jobs, what's doing done for my healthcare?

516
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: And what are we doing to change this corrupt in

517
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,240
Speaker 1: a in a grid locked system which doesn't work for

518
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: working people? Well, Janet, does that sound about right to you?

519
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: That pretty much? Well, we so appreciate you talking to

520
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: us on the phone and giving us your views. I

521
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: I so appreciate your perspective and it was really nice

522
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: to talk to you. Thank you, Janet, thank you, thank you.

523
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: To stand before we leave this topic, I really wanted

524
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: to talk about your views on what went wrong for

525
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, inten why she lost the election. And I

526
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: know that you wrote in this memo it you thought

527
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: that her message was too sort of satisfied with the

528
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: status quo about building on progress rather than delivering a

529
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: new economic agenda for swing voters. Can you tell me

530
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: a little bit about what you think she should have

531
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: done as opposed to what she actually did. Well, I mean, look,

532
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: there was tactical and strategic malpractice, you know what, every

533
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: which I've written about an others have written about, and

534
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 1: you just you just want to strangle them when you

535
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: whenever you think about the consequences of of the things

536
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: they got wrong. But at the heart of it, she

537
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: I think maybe overlearned, you know, the lessons of two

538
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: thousand where they think Gore distanced himself from Clinton and

539
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: cost you know, the election in their view and her

540
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 1: And incidentally, you were the senior strategist to that campaign

541
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 1: at the end, or the Polster to the campaign at

542
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: the end. Uh the but the they were so determined

543
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: not to have any gap between herself, UM, and the president.

544
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: I think that was important as a primary strategy in

545
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: terms of winning the nomination. But that's what she believes.

546
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: She thought it was a successful you know president and

547
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 1: his you know, his message to the country as the

548
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 1: country is doing well, we're moving in the right direction,

549
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: you know, build on the progress, um. And you know,

550
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: at critical points she mostly identified with that, and that's

551
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: how she closed the election. And you know, you can't

552
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: listen to you know, Jenny, you can't listen to the

553
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: voices in Chicago or Macomb County without knowing this country

554
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,880
Speaker 1: desperately want to change. I didn't want to just build

555
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 1: on the progress that you know, for most people meeting

556
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: incomes below where it was in two thousand and eight.

557
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: You know, they still think about TARP as a corrupt

558
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: deal in which the political class took care of themselves,

559
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: you know, and not working people, not the you know,

560
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: struggling working people in the country. UM. And you know

561
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,160
Speaker 1: she in the convention when she by the way, when

562
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: she united with Sanders and uh, you know, and Warren

563
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: at the convention and her convention speech. In the debates,

564
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: she actually she adopted a bold economic change agenda. UM.

565
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: That won her very strong support, and that was her

566
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 1: strong Those were the points in which she was viewed

567
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: most strongly and had her biggest lead. UM. But you know,

568
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: after the debates, she never mentioned the economy again. She

569
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: never talked about what she was gonna do with the country.

570
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: She never talked about change. UM. It was more about

571
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 1: how Trump was unfit to be president. Unfit UM not

572
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: not the right temperament, not the right experience. Is the

573
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: fact it was offending different groups. They purposely did not

574
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: attack him or just qualify him. UM on screwing small

575
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: businesses and workers, using Chinese steel, musing you know, undocumented workers,

576
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: all of the kind of attacks that would undermine him

577
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: as being a job creator, and on the economy, they

578
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: purposely did not do those. I saw some of those

579
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 1: ads though, stand that said Donald Trump, you know, fixed

580
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 1: his golf course up or his golf club, whatever it's called,

581
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: and never paid the employees that did it. I saw

582
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: a lot of ads about that. Um. Not it was

583
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: it wasn't how either their campaign or the or the

584
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: outside super practical. Closed. All their ads were about um,

585
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,560
Speaker 1: you know, temperament. The way he treated other people was language,

586
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: why women, That was the whole close. Maybe that was early.

587
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: And also if you look at also the President's closed

588
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: in the final two weekends, which was incomes are up,

589
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: poverties down, We've created millions of jobs. Build on the progress.

590
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 1: She'll finish the jump. It seems to me though she

591
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: was a bit between a rock and a hard place,

592
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: because people want to change, but she had to associate

593
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: herself with Barack Obama, hoping that the same people who

594
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: voted for him would come out and vote for her her,

595
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: so she couldn't really distance herself from him. And yet,

596
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,479
Speaker 1: as she said, the overwhelming sentiment among many voters was

597
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: throw the bumps out, let's start over. You're absolutely right

598
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 1: in terms of how conflicted she was, but she she

599
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 1: created a campaign that had all of Obama's consultants um

600
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: and which was which was self conscious, was to be

601
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: as close as possible to Obama. He had a very high,

602
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: you know, job approval at the end, and what you

603
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: you know, would have thought, would you know it would

604
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: translate you know into you know, strong vote. I'm sure

605
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 1: she expected to win. Everyone else expected her to win

606
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: in part because of the state of the economy overall approval.

607
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: But you know, underneath the not just underneath, you know,

608
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: had a huge majority saying the country needed, you know,

609
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: big change. And these voters that went for Trump, I

610
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: wanted big change, and a lot of voters pulled away

611
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: from her at the end in the last week. I mean,

612
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: if you look at the data and the exit polls

613
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: that our own polls was in the last week that

614
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: a lot of these working class voters pulled back from her,

615
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: uh and moved to Trump when she did not offer

616
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 1: anything on the economy at the end. It was very polish.

617
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: It was difficult, obviously, you know, given we're you know,

618
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: the issues you raised, but it was very winnable and

619
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: the country needed that. She needed that kind of endate.

620
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 1: And what do you say to Democrats who just blamed

621
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 1: James Comy for the result? Not very helpful. I mean, look,

622
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm look, there's no doubt that she would

623
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 1: would be president but for Comy and what the FBI

624
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: did in those weeks, there's no doubt at all that

625
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 1: but for Comy, she would be president today. I believe that.

626
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: But that doesn't but that, but but campaign's campaign's face

627
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, you know, October surprises face huge issues. A

628
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: focused campaign has a direction as a mission is giving

629
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,839
Speaker 1: is telling people where they want to take the country,

630
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 1: is telling the is making a choice between the candidates

631
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: that is compelling, that gets you to be able to

632
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 1: win in the key states at the end um, they

633
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: aren't giving that kind of central direction and mission and

634
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: vision that allowed people to look past the other pieces

635
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 1: of the hacking in the combing. And so while it's

636
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 1: true that they had an enormous impact, and I think

637
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: decisive impact, that doesn't mean you lose. You still have

638
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,800
Speaker 1: a You still need to give people a reason to

639
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,240
Speaker 1: vote for you and a choice, which they didn't do ultimately,

640
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: So Stan, let's close our conversation by talking about the

641
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: future and what Democrats should do now. And this kind

642
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 1: of takes me back to Macomb County. Are white working

643
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: class Midwesterners really the future of the party or should Democrats,

644
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: as some have argued, turned to the sun belt because

645
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: I mean they point to stuff like, you know, Hillary

646
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: only lost Arizona by three and a half and she

647
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: lost Ohio by eight. You know, I've written a book

648
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: about them called America send you know that talks about

649
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: these trends, and these trends are accelerating. You know, everything

650
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: we're talking about is accelerating. That is the concentration of

651
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: the GDP, you know in the metro and the metro areas.

652
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: You know, the growing farm population, all of these trends

653
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 1: are accelerating. Growing diversity, multiculturalism in this you know, in

654
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: the cities. All these things are the future. There's no doubt.

655
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: Millennials are increasing, you know, you know, part of the population,

656
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: and any you know, democratic strategy has to embrace you know,

657
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: that majority. But there's two pieces of that. Those voters

658
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 1: themselves are also struggling economically. We're not if you look

659
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: at millennials and and and being weighed down, you know,

660
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: by debt. If you look at the parts of our base,

661
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: the working class parts of our base included unmarried with

662
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 1: single women who are quarter of the electorate, you know,

663
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 1: they are struggling economically, and they're looking for Democrats to

664
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: have an economic message and to be doing addressing issues

665
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: that matter to them. So I don't I think it's

666
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: a false choice. There was I embrace the New America.

667
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 1: And that's where you know, that's where we're gonna you know,

668
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: build our majority, but we don't get them, we don't

669
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: maxim mize our support even there unless we understand what's

670
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,880
Speaker 1: happening to working people, you know, black, white, you know, brown.

671
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: You know, this is a you know, a broad problem

672
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: you know that's still you know that runs through this

673
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 1: country and they are they do feel forgotten. And so

674
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: part of Democrats winning is also being seen to recognize

675
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: that working people you know, are you know, are you know,

676
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: are struggling And this is a we are fifty states

677
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: now there are a lot of Southern states which we

678
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: aren't going to win. But this is a you know,

679
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: a constitutional system, and would you have lots of states,

680
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: would you like senators and do reapportionment in which rural

681
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: areas and and and and small town areas play a

682
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: big part in those states. And you can't win in America,

683
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: you can't govern in America unless you both embrace the

684
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: new America but also find ways to really represent working

685
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: Americans who feel unrepresented. Do you think stand the secret

686
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 1: sauce for politicians of the future will be understanding this changing,

687
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,320
Speaker 1: rapidly changing job market, how people can earn a living

688
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 1: and how they're going to move from manufacturing to a

689
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 1: different kind of economy. Yeah, I do. I don't know

690
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: if it's a secret. I don't know if it's a

691
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: secret sauce. But you're you're right to raise it. And

692
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: so Democrats, I think, do have an opportunity help because

693
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: I don't I'm not sure what Trump is real. You know,

694
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: I know he's talking. You know, he'll badge your companies

695
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: into building plants supposedly, you know, in America. But the

696
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: question is are there really going to be you know,

697
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: mind coal mines, you know, reopening you know under Trump,

698
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: how much auto employment is going to come in these

699
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: new factories a trivial amount if you look at the

700
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 1: projective job growth in manufacturing, you know, even with Trump's

701
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: you know scenario. And so the bigger opportunity for progressives

702
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: is recognized that Trump is not real. He's not real

703
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: on trade, He hasn't you know, he didn't do what

704
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,240
Speaker 1: he said he would do in currency manipulation. Trade barriers

705
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: are not the answer. Tariffs are not the answer, you know,

706
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: you know, going forward. So I think I think we're

707
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: gonna find that the Republicans that maybe even Trump, are

708
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: pretty empty in the end when it comes to how

709
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: you address these issues. And I do think then it

710
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: will turn to Democrats, um and I think this is

711
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: a real opportunity. I don't want to have Donald Trump

712
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: as present for years to get that opportunity, you know,

713
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: But think about had she won and what a struggle

714
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 1: that would have been in office and what the off

715
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: year and twenty elections would look like. I actually think

716
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: you are going to have both an eighteen and twenty

717
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: in particular, a chance for Democrats to really be pretty

718
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: bold and real about how you really do have a

719
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: prosperity that you know, raises all you know, all ships,

720
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: you know, not the kind of prosperity that Trump is

721
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 1: talking about. And stand there's obviously a big debate within

722
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party about what the message ought to be

723
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 1: going forward. You've had a lot of praise about the

724
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: Warren Sanders wing of the party. You wrote in your

725
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,120
Speaker 1: memo that that's the kind of change the voters are

726
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: hungry for. But Democrats, as you know, are increasingly dependent

727
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: on college educated professional voters in the suburbs and metropolitan areas.

728
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: And are you concerned that the Democrats are going to

729
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 1: move too far to the left and alienate voters that

730
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 1: that the party now needs. Well, will that be interesting? Look,

731
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,879
Speaker 1: I think this is a Uh the problem you're talking

732
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: about is is one that comes from riches of opportunity

733
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 1: because you have an increasingly diverse American and and Donald

734
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: Trump is not going to you know, change change that,

735
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,439
Speaker 1: and and many of those look to a Democratic party

736
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,839
Speaker 1: that's open to you know, multiculturalism, um, and a kind

737
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 1: of economic dynamism which riches you know everyone. Um. It

738
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: also includes the affluent suburbs, which are voting increasingly Democratic,

739
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: not just in this election but over time. But also

740
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:57,800
Speaker 1: it has to include a lot of working people, a

741
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: lot of people in our base, you know, our work people.

742
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: It was not you know. The what we have to

743
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: recognize is that a majority of whites art without a

744
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 1: four year degree. They pulled back under the Obama presidency.

745
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: And part of the deal has to be you know,

746
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,520
Speaker 1: winning those voters. Otherwise you can't win you know, across

747
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: the country. Uh. And even can't be assured of the

748
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,800
Speaker 1: kind of electrical electric college majority, you know, the landslide

749
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: they would like to achieve. But can Democrats win those

750
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:33,439
Speaker 1: voters without alienating the more moderate professional voters that they've

751
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: increasingly come to rely upon. I'm skeptical that that that

752
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,879
Speaker 1: is that big a trade off. Bernie Senators was very

753
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,479
Speaker 1: strong in the in the primary, mainly because he made

754
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: reform his central peace. Uh that he you know, he

755
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: said he was going to clean up politics. If he

756
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: said it was one policy that he would address, it

757
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 1: would be going after money and you know, money and politics,

758
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: because that's what corrupts it. That is like a point

759
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 1: of entry for everyone in the Democrat coalition. You gotta

760
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 1: clean up money in politics. You gotta reform politics. And

761
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: so I think there's a reform agenda um that you

762
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 1: know that you know carries uh, you know across It

763
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: is true the college educators are more pro trade. But

764
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: when you get to a whole variety of other policies,

765
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 1: you know, including education, job training, investment, and infrastructure. UM,

766
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,359
Speaker 1: I don't think it's such a such a trade off.

767
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: I'd be surprised, you know, if those who are running

768
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 1: from that wing you know, of the party, um, you know,

769
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: aren't able to reach voters across the primary elector Well.

770
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: I think one thing is certain. Stand these are fascinating times,

771
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: and I think unsettling times for Americans all across the

772
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: political spectrum because the country is so divided, and it

773
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,400
Speaker 1: will be really interesting to see how this all shakes

774
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: out and what's going to happen in Maybe you'll come

775
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: back and do our podcast. I promise, I promise. After

776
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: the after the landslide, old reformists win for Democrats are

777
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,239
Speaker 1: now going to be under pressure to deliver. Stan. Thank

778
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,240
Speaker 1: you so much. Brian. Would you like to whisper sweet

779
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 1: nothings to your friends Dan, because as I said at

780
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,439
Speaker 1: one point, you, Bryan and Stan, you need to get away.

781
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: It's so excited about that. She gives me more abuse

782
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 1: for respecting your work over the years. It's really you know,

783
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: she's created a hostile work environment. I have to say,

784
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: we have to talk about this on the side. Yeah, yeah,

785
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 1: that's a different conversation. Thank you so much for coming

786
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: on the show as usual. A huge thank you to

787
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: Giana Palmer for producing our show and for editing the

788
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: hell out of this one. By the way, also to

789
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: Zack diner Stein not Dak zeiner Stein, Zack diner Stein

790
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: for mixing and engineering, and to Ryan Connor for engineering

791
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: assistance in l A and Dave Shaw for his help

792
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. And thank as always to our

793
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: social media maven Alison Bresnik, and to Emily Bena for

794
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,239
Speaker 1: her part in producing the show. Thanks to our fantastic

795
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: intern Nora Richie and Mark Phillips. Thank you for our

796
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: fantastic theme music. I know that Katie sings it in

797
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: the shower. I love it. I'm going to buy the CD.

798
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: Do they still make c ds? You can buy it

799
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: on iTunes or something. Katie Currik, Mitch Simul and I

800
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: are the executive producers and we're not just saying this, folks.

801
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,440
Speaker 1: We really do love hearing from you. And remember you

802
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: can also email us at comments at correct podcast dot

803
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: com be nice, or you can find me on social

804
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 1: media to be nice there as well. I'm Katie Curic

805
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,279
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram and Katie dot Kuric on Snapchat.

806
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: For the four people who are interested, I am at

807
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: Goldsmith Be on Twitter. And best of all, you can

808
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 1: rate and review the show on iTunes. We really appreciate

809
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: your feedback and uh we'll talk to you next time.

810
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: Bye everyone, Bye, Brian, Bye on Cotten. Move to w

811
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: U