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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, and welcome back to you It Could Happen

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Speaker 2: Here show about the ways things are falling apart. Well,

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Speaker 2: welcome back to you the listener. Welcome to me, your

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Speaker 2: guest host. I'm Molly Conger, filling in for James for

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Speaker 2: a few weeks. If you're happy to be hearing my voice,

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Speaker 2: feel free to share that feedback anywhere you post online.

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Speaker 2: If you're upset about the state of affairs, I suggest

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Speaker 2: writing your congressional representative or mailing a cryptic postcard to

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Speaker 2: your local ATA field office. As your guest host, I'll

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Speaker 2: try to bring you the It could Happen Here content

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Speaker 2: you know and love. Dispatches from the front lines of

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Speaker 2: our dystopia updates on the people trying to unravel society

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Speaker 2: as we know it, and what's being done to stop

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Speaker 2: the rising tide that threatens to swallow us all. Today,

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Speaker 2: I'm joined by a Garrison, and I'm going to tell

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Speaker 2: them a little bit about what's been going on with

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Speaker 2: Patriot Front.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Patriot Front, fantastic one of the gayer groups of

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Speaker 3: Nazis operating in the United States.

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Speaker 2: It's just guys being dudes. Garrison, you wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: Understand, I certainly wouldn't know.

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Speaker 2: You may remember a Patriot Front from such iconic moments

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Speaker 2: as getting arrested en mass at a gay Pride event

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Speaker 2: and Idaho in twenty twenty two, having their internal calms

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Speaker 2: leaked repeatedly nearly nearly constantly, constantly, including some videos of

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Speaker 2: questionably sensual pad downs, or accidentally giving several members mild

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Speaker 2: carbon monoxide poisoning by forcing them to ride in the

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Speaker 2: back of the U haul truck. You've probably seen their

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Speaker 2: stickers on a trash can in your local downtown, or

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Speaker 2: maybe you've driven by a racist banner drop. But when

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Speaker 2: all is sudden done, hopefully you'll only remember them as

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Speaker 2: having been sued into the center of the Earth, which

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Speaker 2: is what I want to talk to you about today.

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Speaker 3: Oh all right, that's I I'm unbelievably excited.

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Speaker 2: We won't be getting into the sensual pat downs. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: this is just court records.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well, I can always I can always find that

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Speaker 3: on telegram. That's fine.

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Speaker 2: But before we get into who is suing Patriot Front,

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Speaker 2: let's get a quick refresher on who they are and

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Speaker 2: how they came to be scurrying around and matching windbreakers

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Speaker 2: promoting a white no state because they think their origin

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Speaker 2: story really informs the way they've backed themselves into this corner.

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Speaker 2: Patriot Front came into existence in late twenty seventeen when

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Speaker 2: it splintered off the now defunct neo Nazi group Vanguard America.

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Speaker 2: The split was months in the making, with a power

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Speaker 2: struggle brewing between Vanguard America leader Dylan Hopper and a

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Speaker 2: young up and coming fascist named Thomas Rousseau, who was

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Speaker 2: at that time barely out of high school. In the

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Speaker 2: months leading up to the Unite the Right rally in

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Speaker 2: Charlottesville in August twenty seventeen, Rousseau edged Hopper out of

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Speaker 2: his own organization in what Hopper called a literal coup.

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Speaker 2: By the time Vanguard America was marching in the streets

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Speaker 2: of Charlottesville, Rousseau was not only in control of the

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Speaker 2: group's internal communications, he was calling the shots on the ground.

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Speaker 2: Hopper didn't even attend, and it was that event they

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Speaker 2: Unite the Right rally that birthed Patriot Front. In those

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Speaker 2: chaotic morning hours of August twelfth, twenty seventeen, a young

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Speaker 2: man named James Alex Fields Junior joined the men under

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Speaker 2: Russeau's command. He didn't ride with the core group from

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Speaker 2: Texas in their rented van, which they called the hate bus.

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Speaker 3: Oh my, did they really call it the hate bus?

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Speaker 2: Rousseau was back then he was sort of Asthmador's protege.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that they'll claim that now, but back

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Speaker 2: then at like this adult alcoholic Nazi was mentoring this

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Speaker 2: fascist team like he was. He had just graduated HIZ.

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Speaker 3: Many such cases.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so they came up in the hate bus. But

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Speaker 2: all right, mcfields drove here alone. He drove overnight from Ohio,

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Speaker 2: but he was wearing the group's uniform, a white polo

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Speaker 2: khaki pants and carrying a shield bearing Vanguard's logo. He

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Speaker 2: joined in with the members of Vanguard America as they

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Speaker 2: loitered around a public park chanting Nazi slogans. Field stood

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Speaker 2: shoulder to shoulder and a line of Vanguard members guarding

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Speaker 2: the entrance to the park where the rally was to

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Speaker 2: be held, preventing counter protesters from entering. A few hours later,

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Speaker 2: after the rally had been called off by the state

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Speaker 2: police declaring an unlawful assembly, Fields drove his Dodge Challenger

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Speaker 2: into a crowd of counter protesters, killing Heather Higher and

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Speaker 2: injuring dozens of others. In later litigation, Dylan Hopper, responding

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Speaker 2: for Vanguard America, was asked about his immediate reaction to

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Speaker 2: hearing about the attack that afternoon. In the group's discord,

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Speaker 2: Hopper posted, Commi's died. That's good enough for me. This was,

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Speaker 2: of course, before he'd seen the photos of the murderer

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Speaker 2: mingling with his hate group. In a deposition three years later,

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Speaker 2: he didn't disavow that initial reaction. He said Heather Higher's

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Speaker 2: death was a tragedy the same way it would be

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Speaker 2: tragic if a surfer who knowingly entered shark infested waters

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Speaker 2: was killed by a shark, saying it was that woman's

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Speaker 2: choice to be there. But he maintained that Fields was

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Speaker 2: never a member of the group, that anyone could have

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Speaker 2: put on a white polo and stood near them in

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Speaker 2: the park, that anyone could have handed Fields that shield.

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Speaker 2: His testimony was that Vanguard America didn't actually have membership list,

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Speaker 2: there was no official record who was a member, but

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Speaker 2: he somehow also knew that Fields was not a member.

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Speaker 2: In that twenty twenty deposition, he claimed that he spoke

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Speaker 2: to Rousseau in the days after the rally, and Rousseau

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Speaker 2: admitted that he had been the one to make the

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Speaker 2: choice to allow Fields to march with them in an

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Speaker 2: attempt to make the group appear larger than it really was,

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Speaker 2: and Fields himself never claimed to be a member of

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Speaker 2: the organization. In his federal sentencing memo, his defense attorney

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Speaker 2: wrote that he'd never been a member of any organized group,

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Speaker 2: but the damage to Vanguard America was done, and almost

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Speaker 2: every photo of Fields taken that morning, just hours before

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Speaker 2: he committed a hate crime murder that would send him

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Speaker 2: to prison for the rest of his life, he certainly

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Speaker 2: looks like he's with them. The night after the rally,

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Speaker 2: as Rousseau was still trying to make his way home

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Speaker 2: to Texas, he posted in the Vanguard Discord about the

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Speaker 2: issue with the man who ran into protesters with his car.

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Speaker 2: He was certainly not a member and none of us

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Speaker 2: know him. Our shields were given widely to anyone at

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Speaker 2: the rally, and we had many extras. There is no

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Speaker 2: criminal conspiracy but handing a person a piece of wood

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Speaker 2: and agreeing on fashion. Legally, we have been in contact

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Speaker 2: with folks with legal experience and we're fine as far

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Speaker 2: as pr Yes, it's bad, but last week they called

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Speaker 2: us evil, white supremacist Nazi killers, and today they're calling

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Speaker 2: us the same thing. Shrug it off. When members complained

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Speaker 2: that they shouldn't be disavowing the actions of the murderer,

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Speaker 2: Rousseau clarified that quote. The statement never said that what

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Speaker 2: he did was wrong, just clarified that he wasn't a member.

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Speaker 2: People aren't buying it anyway. So neither Russo nor Hopper

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Speaker 2: were willing to say what Fields did should not have happened.

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Speaker 2: They didn't disavow the murder. Hopper's comments seemed genuinely supportive

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Speaker 2: of the murder. They were willing to cheer on the bloodshed,

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Speaker 2: but the way the blood looked on their own hands

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Speaker 2: was going to be a pr problem. Now for me,

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Speaker 2: the whole Nazi thing is kind of a deal breaker

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Speaker 2: from the start branding wise, Like, just from the jump,

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Speaker 2: there's a branding issue. There's an eagle, there's a fascies,

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Speaker 2: there's the blood and soil thing. It it's not a

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Speaker 2: good look.

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Speaker 3: Could you briefly explain what a fascianes is?

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Speaker 2: So it is a bundle of sticks, right, It's an

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Speaker 2: old Roman symbol right, right, it comes from you know,

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Speaker 2: the Roman Empire. So it's this very you know, return

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Speaker 2: to tradition. Mussolini brought it back.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and like you can break one stick pretty easily,

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Speaker 3: but if they're all bundled together, then's then and it's

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Speaker 3: then it's harder to break apes together.

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Speaker 2: Strong. Yeah, sorry, just so the preview for the new

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Speaker 2: Planet of the Apes. But that's not the issue for

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Speaker 2: them in this twenty seventeen rebrand, Right, it's the Nazi thing,

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Speaker 2: not the deal breaker, But it's hard to shake the

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Speaker 2: association with a hate crime murder was a member, but

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Speaker 2: the pictures of the murderer holding your logo and standing

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Speaker 2: right next to you are going to follow you. So

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Speaker 2: just three weeks after the rally, Thomas Rousseau announced in

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Speaker 2: the Vanguard America Discord that he was launching a full rebrand,

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Speaker 2: calling the new group Patriots Front. That s gets dropped later,

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Speaker 2: but Patriots Front.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that is a way worse name. Yeah, Patriots Front.

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Speaker 3: To say that is that it's really hard to say.

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Speaker 2: They've not possessive either. There's no apostrophe. It's just like

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Speaker 2: Patriots Front.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's weird. They made a good call.

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Speaker 2: Drop in that s so they really fine tuned it

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Speaker 2: there in the end.

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Speaker 3: That was the only the only good thing they've done

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Speaker 3: besides just keep getting arrested.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, so the message wasn't changed, The ideology is

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Speaker 2: not changing. The manifesto got a little fresh polish, but

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Speaker 2: the real change was optics. Russeau recognized the need for

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Speaker 2: broader appeal, for new recruits and for plausible deniability on

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Speaker 2: the group's surface. You can get away with saying a

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Speaker 2: lot more Nazi shit if you put an American flag

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Speaker 2: on the hats and a founding father on the homepage,

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Speaker 2: then you can. If you're sporting a son and rat

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Speaker 2: and posting Hitler.

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Speaker 3: Memes, Yeah, all of their their kind of outwards visual

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Speaker 3: style is all very like American. It is it is,

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Speaker 3: it is. It is American. There's a bit of like

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Speaker 3: a military kind of kind of a cleanliness to it,

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Speaker 3: but it's very much like they're going full Americana.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's it's. It's Americana. It's like Patriot kitch, right,

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Speaker 2: Like it's a few ten signs away from being a Fudruckers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, but it's it's it's very much not

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Speaker 3: like German Nazi it's like, right, it's like USA with

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Speaker 3: some like US Army signifiers that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: But the you know, the sentiment behind it is the same.

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Speaker 2: You can take away the black eagle and the fascie like.

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Speaker 2: Actually they kept the fascies. It's just red, white and blue.

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Speaker 3: Now USA all the way, baby, I mean to be fair.

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Speaker 2: It's money to be fair.

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Speaker 3: The United States of America also uses a fascie.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I'm not like, you know, crying for the sullying of

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Speaker 2: the of the branding of the United States in America.

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Speaker 2: But it's clear what the intention was here. Yes, it's

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Speaker 2: to sort of hide behind that Americana.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But in the six and a half years since that rebrand,

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Speaker 2: Thomas Rousseau has maintained tight personal control over the entire group,

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Speaker 2: now called Patriot Front. You can almost read that as

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Speaker 2: a reaction to his first major setback as a white

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Speaker 2: supremacist organizer. You know, he'd led some smaller rallies in

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Speaker 2: Texas before Unite the Right, but that was his first

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Speaker 2: big day out commanding the Nazi group, right, and as

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Speaker 2: a result of that day, the entire group was tarnished

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Speaker 2: by the association of you know, in their telling some

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Speaker 2: random guy who was just near them, we.

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Speaker 3: Just happened to hang out with people who like doing murders,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 2: You know, Like it goes like what Hopper was saying

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Speaker 2: in his deposition, right, like, well, she was in shark

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Speaker 2: infested waters. Like, by your own admission, you are the sharks. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're saying that you are a flesh eating shark. But

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Speaker 2: that's not possible anymore now, right, So you can't just

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Speaker 2: be some guy who's marching with Patriot Front because their

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Speaker 2: events are never announced ahead of time. You have to

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Speaker 2: get the official group merch from the group after being

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Speaker 2: interviewed and vetted. You can't just show up and march

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Speaker 2: with them unless you're a member, because only members know

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Speaker 2: when the events are going to be. Yeah, there's no

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Speaker 2: chance that some unvetted hangar on is going to be

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Speaker 2: standing near them. And that does solve the problem posed

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Speaker 2: by someone like James Fields, but it creates a new problem,

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Speaker 2: real legal liability. By establishing so clearly and so firmly

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Speaker 2: that anybody who's marching with you, wearing your hat and

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Speaker 2: your jacket, following your orders through the megaphone, you have

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Speaker 2: established that all of those people answer to you, and

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Speaker 2: you know them, and you approve that they were there.

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Speaker 2: Now you're responsible.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you make the classic mistake of having an actual

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Speaker 3: official like members.

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Speaker 2: List, right, so now you no longer have the option

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Speaker 2: of saying, well, that guy wasn't with us, we don't

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Speaker 2: know him. And that's where the lawsuits enter the picture.

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Speaker 2: So right now there are three active federal lawsuits against

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Speaker 2: Patriot Front, one in Virginia, one in Massachusetts, and one

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Speaker 2: in North Dakota. And the underlying actions and some of

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Speaker 2: the claims vary, but all three lawsuits are making the

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Speaker 2: same central claim, a section nineteen eighty five complaint alleging

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Speaker 2: a conspiracy by Patriot Front and its members to deprive

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Speaker 2: the plaintiffs of their civil rights. And I think it's

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Speaker 2: really interesting. This is dry as hell. Maybe that's only

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Speaker 2: interesting to me that I think it's really interesting to

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Speaker 2: look at the original context of that statute, right that

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Speaker 2: code section It comes out of the Enforcement Act of

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Speaker 2: eighteen seventy one. Are you familiar with the Enforcement Acts

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Speaker 2: going going into deep civil.

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Speaker 3: War lore, you know, to reconstruction. I'm Canadian, I don't

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Speaker 3: the American legal system is, but something I've been learning

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Speaker 3: the past ten years. It is by no means the

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Speaker 3: specialty of my research or knowledge.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not like a big Civil war guy. You know.

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Speaker 2: I have accidentally and against my will, learned a lot

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Speaker 2: about the Civil War because we've been arguing about these

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Speaker 2: statues for a few years. Sure, but reconstruction, I think

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Speaker 2: is really overlooked.

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Speaker 3: You.

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Speaker 2: In my own education in public school, there was like

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Speaker 2: two paragraphs about reconstruction and then we just sort of

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Speaker 2: like moved on.

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Speaker 3: I had like a semester on it. It is certainly

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Speaker 3: one of the more tragic periods of American history. How

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Speaker 3: we seem to almost have figured something out and then

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Speaker 3: it all went down the drain pretty quill.

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Speaker 2: Like we really whiffed it. But the Enforcement Act of

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Speaker 2: eighteen seventy one is also called the ku Klux Klan Act.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh oh, yeah, these guys, we're getting somewhere. So

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Speaker 2: when President Grant signed the KKK Act into law in

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Speaker 2: eighteen seventy one, support for reconstruction was starting to falter,

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Speaker 2: and there was genuine fear that the eighteen seventy two

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Speaker 2: presidential election would bring on a new wave of clan

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Speaker 2: violence in the South. And that's starting to sound a

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Speaker 2: little familiar, isn't it. You know, people are getting tired,

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Speaker 2: getting tired of being asked to address deep rooted, systemic inequalities.

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Speaker 2: There's an upcoming and uncertain presidential election. There's growing fear

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Speaker 2: of vigilanti violence by roving bands of masked racists. You know,

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Speaker 2: like everything old is new again. That sounds like kind

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Speaker 2: of like right now, Yeah, that's wild. So you know,

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Speaker 2: there have been other enforcement acts. This wasn't the first one,

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Speaker 2: but the ku Klux Klan Act was specifically tailored to

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Speaker 2: address the question of freelance violence. Right, So, normally, if

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Speaker 2: you are suing over a civil rights violation, there are

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Speaker 2: only remedies available to you when your rights have been

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Speaker 2: violated by a state actor, a cop, a government body,

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Speaker 2: the law itself.

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Speaker 3: The irs. You can really.

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Speaker 2: Only seek legal remedy when your rights are violated by

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Speaker 2: the state. This one's a little different because during reconstruction,

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Speaker 2: a lot of that violence, the intimidation, the actions being

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Speaker 2: taken to deprive Black Americans of their newly granted rights,

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Speaker 2: was being undertaken by private actors organizing together. Again, it's

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Speaker 2: starting to feel familiar.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not like there could be groups of armed

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Speaker 3: extremists uttering voting sites, trying to scare people away from

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Speaker 3: from voting in an election that could never happen.

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Speaker 2: Now we've learned no lessons, right, So groups of white

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Speaker 2: men organizing themselves wearing matching outfits, conspiring to undertake actions

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Speaker 2: to intimidate, harass, and harm the people they believe that

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Speaker 2: are standing between them and the white America they were

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Speaker 2: born to run, right. Yeah, So the statute originally provided

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Speaker 2: for both civil and criminal liability for these conspiracies. Interesting,

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Speaker 2: and that first year Grant went hard in the paint

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Speaker 2: with it. Oh like, he went full hog like. As

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Speaker 2: soon as he signed this into law, he was red

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Speaker 2: d So in that first year or two after he

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Speaker 2: signed the act, he broke the back of the Klan.

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Speaker 2: Hundreds of klansmen were prosecuted in South Carolina alone. They

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Speaker 2: were arresting so many clansmen so quickly that hundreds of

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Speaker 2: them just went to their local courthouse and turned themselves

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Speaker 2: in because they knew it was coming.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, it killed the Klan. Wow.

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Speaker 2: But even before the Supreme Court decided twelve years later

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Speaker 2: that I mean, when it comes to the crime part

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Speaker 2: of this, maybe we should let the States handle it right, Ah,

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Speaker 2: so it no longer has a criminal liability component, so

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Speaker 2: that's just the civil liability left under that law. But

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Speaker 2: even before the Supreme Court made that ruling in eighteen

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Speaker 2: eighty three, the Klan Act prosecutions pretty much ended when

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Speaker 2: reconstruction died, right. It was this brief moment in time

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Speaker 2: when there was any appetite to do anything about this, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and it faded out pretty quickly. So today it's up

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Speaker 2: to the victim to seek their own civil remedy when

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Speaker 2: they're terrorized by the sons of the clansmen.

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Speaker 3: We couldn't reconstruct, well, do you know what we should construct, Molly?

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Speaker 2: Oh god, Yeah. Robert told me that if I don't

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Speaker 2: come up with a cool way to throw to ads,

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Speaker 2: he's going to put me in a dog kennel and

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Speaker 2: air drop me onto an island where successful podcasters hunt

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Speaker 2: people like me for sports.

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Speaker 3: So that does sound like something he would say. But

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Speaker 3: we could construct a compelling ad transition.

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Speaker 2: Let's take it to the ads, all right, and we

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Speaker 2: are back Garrison, and I'm going to tell you what's

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Speaker 2: in these lawsuits.

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited to hear about Patriot Front having to

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Speaker 3: read a niche law.

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Speaker 2: Well, the problem is they're pretending they don't have to.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, that is also what I would do. I

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Speaker 3: would be like, no, no way, I am not reading that.

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Speaker 3: Fuck you.

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Speaker 2: Well, we'll get to that in a second. So the

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Speaker 2: first case filed was in Richmond, Virginia, so right here

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Speaker 2: in my backyard.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: So, thanks to repeated leaks of Patriot Front's internal communications

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Speaker 2: and documents, we actually have video of them doing what's

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Speaker 2: being alleged in this lawsuit.

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Speaker 3: Which is inconvenient for them.

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Speaker 2: It's not great. So the suit alleges and the video

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Speaker 2: literally shows that. In October twenty twenty one, a couple

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Speaker 2: of Patriot Front members vandalized a mural in a public

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Speaker 2: park in Richmond. The mural celebrated American tennis legend Arthur Ash.

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Speaker 2: Ash was born and raised in Richmond and started playing

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Speaker 2: tennis as a child in Brookfield Park, which in the

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Speaker 2: fifties when Ash was a child, was one of the

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Speaker 2: few public parks opened to black residents. It was also

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Speaker 2: the park that his father was the caretaker of. Right,

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Speaker 2: So Arthur ash Richmond public parks like this is a

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Speaker 2: relationship from his childhood.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a very important place.

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Speaker 2: He's you know, one of the best tennis players in

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Speaker 2: American history. And he grew up his father worked for

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Speaker 2: the park. He learned to play tennis at that park.

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Speaker 2: That park, Brookfield Park, actually no longer exists, but the

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Speaker 2: park where the mural was installed is in a predominantly

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Speaker 2: black neighborhood.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: In the video they filmed of the vandalism, one Patriot

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Speaker 2: Front member supportively tells two others to quote, get the

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Speaker 2: fucking N word. They say it, I'm not yea, but

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Speaker 2: the N words face as they're covering it up with

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Speaker 2: spray paint and then play. So they filmed this themselves, right,

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Speaker 2: They filmed this themselves and used it in later promotional.

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Speaker 3: Video videotaping this Cribs Free was the best idea we

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Speaker 3: ever had. This is so funny that they just can't

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Speaker 3: stop filming them doing crimes.

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Speaker 2: Like they're not just taking notes on the conspiracy, they're

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Speaker 2: filming themselves enthusiastically participating in it.

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Speaker 3: Right, It's so funny.

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Speaker 2: You know, in the promotional videos there's no sound, but

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Speaker 2: in the leaked documents it's the original uncut video like.

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Speaker 3: Once you have like discovery or something. Also, all all

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Speaker 3: all that audio exists, that is, it is the privilege

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Speaker 3: of the court to be able to listen to that.

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Speaker 2: Well, we have so you know when they cut their promos,

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Speaker 2: you know they're playing like cool music over it. But

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Speaker 2: in the leaked version that we got from I think

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Speaker 2: it was in the Rocket Chat leaks, was in the

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Speaker 2: second big leak. Okay, you can hear them saying like,

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Speaker 2: you don't get the fucking N words face as they're

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Speaker 2: spray painting over Arthur Ash's face and then stenciling over

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Speaker 2: that with their logo.

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Speaker 3: Sure, like they're just like, hey, it was us. They're

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Speaker 3: just like leaping it fair.

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Speaker 2: And just just just we're super clear about this. This

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Speaker 2: is racially motivated. Put that on the tape, like.

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Speaker 3: Uh yeah yeah. And so this is.

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Speaker 2: Probably the weaker of the three cases, right, The plaintiffs

397
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,800
Speaker 2: in this suit are basing their nineteen eighty five claim

398
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Speaker 2: that this is a racially motivated conspiracy to interfere with

399
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Speaker 2: the right of black residents to enjoy a place of

400
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Speaker 2: public accommodation right that a place of public accommodation is

401
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,119
Speaker 2: sort of the legal structure for places where you're not

402
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 2: allowed to fuck with my rights. In this case, it's

403
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Speaker 2: a public park. The suit makes a similar and separate

404
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,960
Speaker 2: claim under Virginia's civil conspiracy law for racial, religious, and

405
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Speaker 2: ethnic harassment, and unlike the other two suits, this complaint

406
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 2: is pretty specific about who the defendants are, because they

407
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Speaker 2: recorded the planning meeting and the act of vandalism, and

408
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 2: because anti fascist researchers have identified many of the real

409
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:45,439
Speaker 2: names behind the pseudonyms. Ah, so these plaintiffs' name not

410
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 2: just the organization itself and Thomas Rousseau, but seven individual

411
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Speaker 2: members who were involved. And they hope to identify nineteen

412
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,320
Speaker 2: John Doe defendants in discovery. And so the most recent suit,

413
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 2: the third one to be filed. We'll get back to

414
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Speaker 2: the second one in a second. Is similar to the

415
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Speaker 2: Richmond suit because it all who arises out of an

416
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Speaker 2: instance of vandalism. But this one looks a little stronger.

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Speaker 2: I think I should be clear. I'm not a lawyer.

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Speaker 2: I just an enthusiastic consumer of the law.

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Speaker 3: Yes, you spend a lot of time reading what I

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Speaker 3: would call extremely boring documents.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I love my document. I pay thousands of dollars

422
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Speaker 2: a year to look at these documents. Oh it's that

423
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Speaker 2: drill post. Like please, someone please help me someone who's

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Speaker 2: good at budgeting.

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Speaker 3: We will do our best to give you as many

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Speaker 3: documents as you want, Molly.

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Speaker 2: These documents cost ten cents a page. I'm a single

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Speaker 2: issue voter on free access to federal court documents.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all my homies hate Pacer.

430
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Speaker 2: So in the Richmond case, we have black residence in

431
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 2: a black neighborhood alleging a racial intimidation at a place

432
00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,720
Speaker 2: of public accommodation in a public park. But in North Dakota,

433
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Speaker 2: the suit is brought by the North Dakota Human Rights Coalition,

434
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Speaker 2: the Immigrant Development Center, and an unnamed plaintiff who works

435
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:55,679
Speaker 2: at the Immigrant Development Center. I mean it arises out

436
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,040
Speaker 2: of two acts of vandalism at the International Market Plaza

437
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 2: and Fargo North to The International Market Plaza is run

438
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 2: by the Immigrant Development Center. It's a large indoor market

439
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 2: space that supports immigrant run small businesses and has community

440
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 2: spaces for the immigrant community.

441
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 3: Sounds cool.

442
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's shops and restaurants and after school programs for

443
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 2: kids and business development classes.

444
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's great food.

445
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems nice. They seem like good people. In

446
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 2: September of twenty twenty two, Patriot Front trustpassed onto the

447
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 2: nonprofits property and spray painted the windows with their logo.

448
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 2: And so this was not an isolated incident, right, Patriot

449
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 2: Front had targeted other businesses in the Fargo area and

450
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,120
Speaker 2: the months leading up to this, including a queer worker

451
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 2: owned coffee shop. So the tenants at the marketplace knew

452
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 2: who Patriot Front was and what the message is in

453
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 2: the windows meant, and they were understandably frightened to have

454
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 2: been targeted and fearful that this could escalate, and it did.

455
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,679
Speaker 2: Two days later, Patriot Front came back to the marketplace

456
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 2: and destroyed a mural celebrating multiculturalism, including placing Patriot Front

457
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 2: logos over the faces of women in hit jobs in

458
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: one panel of the mural.

459
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've had to call up shops businesses after they've

460
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 3: been targeted or I've like seen I've like seen on

461
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 3: telegram like oh, this thing's happening in this area, and

462
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 3: be like explained to like this poor this like poor employee,

463
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,360
Speaker 3: like who who this is and why it's happening, and

464
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 3: like what to do because they're often very like confused,

465
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 3: they don't know what's going on. Yeah, it sucks to

466
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 3: how much they try to like involve just regular people

467
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 3: trying to like make just like live out their day,

468
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 3: but also like specifically targeting people of color, targeting the

469
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 3: LGBTQ community. And yeah, it is, it is. It is

470
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,919
Speaker 3: a fortunately very common occurrence because a lot of Patriot

471
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 3: Front's activity, when they're not marching around getting beat up

472
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 3: in Philadelphia, are just putting up like stickers and doing

473
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 3: graffiti like that. That is kind of most of what

474
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 3: they do. Sometimes they'll do like a banner drop or something.

475
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,040
Speaker 2: What do you think about the stickers is? I don't

476
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 2: know if everyone is deep in lore, but it's required,

477
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 2: you're it's that's what they call their activism, right.

478
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 3: In order to be a member, you have to post

479
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 3: pictures of you putting up stickers.

480
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 2: Like there are like spreadsheets and documents, and your network

481
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 2: director is keeping tabs, and you have to report in

482
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 2: every week about what activism you've engaged in, and you

483
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 2: have to provide video and photo proof of you doing

484
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 2: these acts of vandalism, which.

485
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 3: Is pretty smart on Patriot Front's part because they also

486
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 3: sell their stickers. So it's it's it's a great pyramid scheme.

487
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's got MLM energy.

488
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, Uh, Robert Rundo and the Patriot Front

489
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 3: guy were like working together on a sticker manufacturing business

490
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 3: for a while. I don't think that's working out super

491
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 3: well for Rundo, but uh.

492
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's some currently awaiting trial in prison, right I believe.

493
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 3: So, yeah, after fleeing to what is it like Romania.

494
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 2: For like Belgrade, Yes, yes, Serbia that that's that's where

495
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:49,960
Speaker 2: it was.

496
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah rough.

497
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 2: But so in this case, you know, it's this is

498
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 2: not just stickers, right, the stickers that you can peel off.

499
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 2: You know, you're uncomfortable, you're scared, but you can peel

500
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: those stickers off and move on with your day. They

501
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 2: spray painted over a mural that cost forty five thousand dollars.

502
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 3: Oh so well, this is this is interesting because I'm

503
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 3: not a law expert, but they may be financially liable

504
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 3: for that extremely high cost.

505
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: Right. So unlike in the Arthur ash murle, which was

506
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: property of the City of Richmond. You know, so the

507
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 2: plaintiffs in that suit don't own that mural. They just

508
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 2: feel that they've been infringed upon because now they're afraid

509
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,480
Speaker 2: to go to the public park. In this case, the

510
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: plaintiff has been financially damaged to a significant degree. This

511
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 2: mural was they got a grant, they had community input,

512
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: it was made by local artists, and now it is destroyed.

513
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,160
Speaker 2: It is a thing of value, It is their property,

514
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 2: and the law really cares about property. Oh yeah, now

515
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: we have quantifiable damage to property belonging to the plaintiff.

516
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 2: And after these two incidents, individual shopkeepers had to buy

517
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 2: their own security cameras, They shortened their hours because they

518
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 2: were scared to be thereafter dark, and the marketplace as

519
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: a whole actually still operates on reduced hours due to

520
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 2: safety concerns. The executive director of the nonprofit had to

521
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,439
Speaker 2: buy a security system for her home and doesn't like

522
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 2: to go to work unaccompanied. I mean, there's genuine fear

523
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 2: in this place. Now.

524
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 3: That's the other thing is that these sorts of acts

525
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,920
Speaker 3: of vandalism come with like an implicit threat of violence

526
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 3: that we can get together a crew of five guys

527
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,360
Speaker 3: wearing masks and show up at this place of work,

528
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 3: or we could already be there when you arrive.

529
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 2: Well, there was the actually in the lawsuit. One of

530
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,439
Speaker 2: the progress in the suits is you know that the

531
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: day after this happened because the day in between the

532
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: two separate acts, a couple of white guys acting sketchy

533
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 2: were wandering around the marketplace taking pictures of people. Yeah,

534
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 2: I bet people are scared. The marketplaces. Immigrant shopkeepers and

535
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 2: customers absolutely understood the intent of this vandalism. And it

536
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: was the same message that they chanted here in Charlottesville.

537
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 2: You will not replace us, right loud and clear in

538
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: those in that spray paint. And so their ability to

539
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 2: transact business, to use a place of public accommodation, to

540
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 2: feel safe in public was taken from them in an organized,

541
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: pre planned act, arising out of discrept minatory animus. And

542
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 2: again that that sort of discriminatory animus clause is important

543
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: in application of this statue. Right. So in the North

544
00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 2: Dakota suit, they're suing Patriot Front, the organization Thomas Rousseau

545
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: as its leader, and the regional network director for that area,

546
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 2: Trevor Vellescu. And they're also seeking to identify ten John

547
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,080
Speaker 2: Does in discovery. So they don't know who all of

548
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: these guys are that are getting sued, but they're gonna

549
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 2: find out. And the third suit, Boston lawsuit, is really

550
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 2: the most straightforward. A black man got assaulted. There's video.

551
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: The video is actually taken by a member of Patriot

552
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 2: Front from it gets worse, it gets worse. So the

553
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 2: video was taken by the member from inside the ranks

554
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: of the march, and it shows members making physical contact

555
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,159
Speaker 2: with Charles Morrell on a public sidewalk in Boston. So

556
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 2: they were up there. It was just before fourth of July.

557
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 2: They were marching on Boston's Freedom Trail.

558
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 3: I think I remember this one, yeah.

559
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 2: And Charles Morrell was outside the Public Library. He was

560
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 2: a busker, was playing music outside the library on the sidewalk.

561
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 2: And this video didn't get leaked. This video they posted themselves.

562
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: They used it proudly on their telegram channel, yep, and

563
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 2: they posted it on their telegram channel the day the

564
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 2: lawsuit was filed.

565
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 3: Genius genius move. Once again, the galaxy of brain folks

566
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 3: over at Patriot Front just cannot stop putting pretty dog

567
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: shit electronic music over videos of them doing crimes.

568
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 2: And so even though I would say, if thirteen months

569
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: after this incident occurred, I'm just randomly posting a video

570
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 2: of this happening, that's so weird, I would say it's

571
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: probably because you know that you're being sued, but there

572
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 2: are a few. They have not acknowledged this lawsuit. They

573
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 2: don't acknowledge that the suit exists.

574
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 3: Which which the government loves. When people don't acknowledge lawsuits

575
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 3: that are happening to them.

576
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: You can't just like la la la la la your

577
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 2: way out of a lawsuit.

578
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 3: ID you can try to go into hiding like forever

579
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 3: and yeah, we'll see how that goes.

580
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 2: And so, just a few weeks ago, when Patriot Front

581
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: was like wandering around in the snow at the March

582
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 2: for Life in DC, a reporter asked Russeau about the

583
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 2: incident in Boston. He didn't bring up the lawsuit. I

584
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 2: wish he had, would love to get him on tape

585
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 2: on that one. But he asked him about the incident

586
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: in Boston, and Russeau continues to claim that, like, look,

587
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 2: we've posted the video and it exonerates us.

588
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 3: I'm sure, oh, I'm sure it does, buddy.

589
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 2: When I watched the video, I mostly just see a

590
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 2: masked gang of fascist using their custom made and branded

591
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 2: metal shields to beat a black man who's using a

592
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 2: public sidewalk, forcing him into the street and slamming his

593
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 2: head into the pole and he had to get stitches.

594
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 2: But I guess it's like it's up for the courts

595
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 2: to decide if him being in their way was the

596
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 2: real crime here.

597
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they was. I mean it's funny because like

598
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 3: it's it's it's not funny. But I have I have,

599
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 3: I have seen cops before used the exact same justification. Yes,

600
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 3: it is different because cops are special little boys because

601
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: you can't sue. Yeah, but no, it is funny how

602
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 3: much Patriot Front are just trying to act like want

603
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 3: to be cops who do graffiti.

604
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 2: Right, Like if you wanted to be a riot cop,

605
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 2: like most cities are hiring.

606
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 3: Be a riot cop. That's not that hard.

607
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of guys doing it that I

608
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: don't think are capable of much else. Yeah, So in this,

609
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: in the Boston lawsuit, the name defendants are just Thomas

610
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: Russo and Patriot Front, but they are hoping to identify

611
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: John doe'es one through ninety nine.

612
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 3: Well, I only wish them good luck.

613
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: So, Garrison, you were saying, you know you can't just

614
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 2: hide forever, right, I usually not. Well, you could try,

615
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 2: you can certainly that. Look, you can always try. There

616
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: are certain people Hidig, who I wish only the best.

617
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 2: There are many others Hidig who I think are probably

618
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: bad people. And it's not like I enjoy the violence

619
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: of the state. But if someone happens to stumble into

620
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 2: experien experiencing the violence of the state will also wanting

621
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 2: to wish violence upon me and my friends. I'm not

622
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: gonna stop that from happening. So these lawsuits, right, they

623
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: got filed, But filing a lawsuit just means you paid

624
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 2: a fee to give it to the court clerk. When

625
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 2: you're suing someone, you have to serve them with papers. Yeah,

626
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: to serve them with papers, you have to find them.

627
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 2: You have to track them down. And normally that's pretty straightforward.

628
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 3: Right.

629
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: People have homes, they have jobs, they have routines, they

630
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: have friends and family. There's places they go, there's places

631
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 2: they shop. You can find most people because most people

632
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: aren't hiding, and most people aren't good at hiding. But

633
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: Thomas Rousseau does not seem to want to be found. Now.

634
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: The first suit filed, the Virginia suit, they did manage

635
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 2: to serve Rousseau at that house in grape Vine, Texas

636
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: that his father was had owned no longer owns, but

637
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 2: he and some other Patriot Front members were living in

638
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 2: that house yep. But not long after those papers were

639
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 2: served to him there, that house was sold in a

640
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 2: foreclosure sale.

641
00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 3: God, I'm sure that house smelled awful. Oh imagine, Oh.

642
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: It's like never, it's never. Gotta feel bad for the

643
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,800
Speaker 2: foreclosure sale guy. It's like a gym locker in there.

644
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 2: Imagine staving to stage that house for sale.

645
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 3: The only only worst smell is inside the Patriot in

646
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 3: front you hauls, because oh wow, driving six hours in

647
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 3: the Idaho the Idaho summer with like thirty other guys

648
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 3: in the back of that truck, it must be awful.

649
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: Do you remember. I think he was in the first leak.

650
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 2: Some of the guys were complaining about how when they

651
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 2: had to ride in the back of the U haul

652
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 2: they were getting sick and like passing out and be like.

653
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 3: Oh, you're walked in there throwing up, having to smell

654
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: everyone else's vomits.

655
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: But also like there's carbon monoxide and it's hot, like

656
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 2: you're there.

657
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 3: It's so funny.

658
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 2: But the advice that the advice that Russo gave them

659
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: when they were saying like, hey, like we were getting sick,

660
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: back there like it's it's not safe, like we were

661
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 2: barfing and passing out. He recommended that they practice overheating.

662
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, gett just get better, Just get like like endurance tested.

663
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: Just start hanging out in the back of U hauls

664
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 3: for fun. That's actually not how heatstroke works. But no,

665
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure you could just think your way through heatstroke.

666
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 3: I look, I guess I think a chat alpha male

667
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 3: should be able to sit in a packed truck for

668
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 3: seventeen hours be totally fine.

669
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: So the house, the stinky house, sold foreclosed. So by

670
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: the time the Boston lawsuit process server came to find

671
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 2: him there, it was already for sale. Yeah, no nobody

672
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 2: to serve. So they hired a legal research firm. They

673
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: sent process servers to addresses all over Texas and they

674
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 2: came up empty. So what do you do when a

675
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: guy who knows process servers are looking for him can't

676
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 2: be found.

677
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 3: Should have served him at that march in Washington, DC.

678
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: Honestly, why were they not mobilized for that? I could

679
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 2: have told you they were going to be there.

680
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that would require some collaboration with

681
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 3: like anti fascist researchers who like know when these things

682
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 3: are happening so like that. I think that's probably why.

683
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: That's just a little bit tricky. But if they're we're

684
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 3: more willingness for collaboration, I think that probably could be successful.

685
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 2: You can find him. Right. So, if I were two,

686
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 2: for example, file a lawsuit against you today.

687
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: Well, and I just what if I di I'm so innocent.

688
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 2: If I just never if I just filed my lawsuit,

689
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 2: pay the fee to file it, but I just never

690
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 2: served you, that's on me. That's my fault. I don't

691
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: take the necessary steps, my suit's gonna get dismissed. But

692
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 2: if I'm really trying, I'm hiring investigators, I'm knocking on

693
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: neighbors doors to ask if they've seen you. I'm looking

694
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 2: under every rock for any sign of where you might be.

695
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: That's different. That's not on me anymore. That's on you.

696
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: And there's ample precedent for this right. And the law

697
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: is pretty clear. You can't escape being sued by playing

698
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 2: cat and mouse.

699
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 3: The old Tom and Jerry method.

700
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 2: And I feel like once I start saying things like

701
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 2: the federal rules of civil procedure, people are going to

702
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: turn the podcast all turn that off.

703
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 3: That doesn't for us today folks, that it could happen here.

704
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening.

705
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,719
Speaker 2: But so in federal court, the rules allow alternative service

706
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 2: by me that are allowable in that state. Right, So,

707
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 2: even though they're in federal court in North Dakota, they

708
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 2: can use methods available in North Dakota courts to serve

709
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: their defendants. And so in North Dakota, if you've tried

710
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: your best, you've exhausted the normal means conducted a diligent search,

711
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 2: you can do what's called service by publication, which means

712
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 2: you just publish a notice in the newspaper.

713
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, oh that's I didn't know that. That's interesting.

714
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: And you have to you have to try really hard first, right,

715
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 2: they really did try. They hired investigators, they haired servers

716
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: like they did, they did their due diligence. Yeah, and

717
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 2: so the judge said, okay, you tried your best. Put

718
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: it in the paper that they got mad. Put it

719
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 2: in the paper that they got sued. And so they did.

720
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 2: They published the notification in a Cass County, North Dakota

721
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: newspaper for a few months in a row. And so

722
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: now as far as that court is concerned, they've been served.

723
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 3: All right, And it worked.

724
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 2: A few weeks later, they got a lawyer.

725
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 3: Oh oh, okay, this is this is the this is

726
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 3: news to me.

727
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, things are moving, Things are moving. From the North

728
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: Dakota lawsuit, the two named individual defendants, Thomas Russeau and

729
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: network director Trevor Bileescu. They got a lawyer, and his

730
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 2: name it's gonna sound familiar to you because it is

731
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 2: Jason Lee Van Dyke.

732
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 3: Oh oh, well, I you gotta love dikes. I mean, like,

733
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 3: what's not to love?

734
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 2: What a good kind? Not a good kind?

735
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 3: Oh wait, wait, I'm receiving some special intel. This is

736
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 3: not not what I was thinking.

737
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: No.

738
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, if his name does sound familiar to you, it

739
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 2: might be because for thirty six hours towards the end

740
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 2: of twenty eighteen, he was the national chairman of the

741
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 2: Proud Boys. But then actually he quit instead.

742
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 3: Honestly, what are this? What are the smarter moves?

743
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 2: So he'd represented Proud Boys in various legal actions over

744
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: the years. He was a member for several years, but

745
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: as his LinkedIn currently and rather aggressively notes, he is

746
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: not a Proud Boy anymore.

747
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 3: A lot of a lot of people are asking questions

748
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 3: about my shirt already saying I'm not a proud boy. Interesting. Yeah,

749
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 3: I feel like I actually, I actually, I am familiar

750
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 3: with this guy. He was involved in a suit with

751
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 3: the group I was looking into a few years back.

752
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's done a little bit of movement lawyering, so

753
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: this isn't his first rodeo. And he denies that he

754
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: is a member of Patriot Front, though he has spoken

755
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 2: to the press on numerous occasions claiming to represent various

756
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 2: members of Patriot He's not a member.

757
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I mean sure, I like.

758
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: He has specifically denied allegations that he is Patriot Front

759
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: user John Texas in the leaked.

760
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,240
Speaker 3: Chats, although oh, okay, well, he says.

761
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: That he is not John Texas has a lot in

762
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: common with Jason leevend But okay, Jason le Vandyke denies

763
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 2: that he is John Texas.

764
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 3: Okay, well I'm sure. I look, I have no reason

765
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 3: to not trust a dyke, So yeah, I'm sure that's fine.

766
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's interesting. So he lives in North Texas

767
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 2: right where you know, Oh, he does home base for

768
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 2: these Patriot Front boys. Yeah, he's never practiced in North

769
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 2: Dakota before. He's not barred in North Dakota. Wait what inexplicably?

770
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: So you know, you have to take the bar exam

771
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,879
Speaker 2: to be in a state bar normally. Normally to get

772
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: admitted to a federal court, you have to be barred

773
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 2: in that state. North Dakota doesn't require that. You just

774
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: have to pay a fee. Okay, So it's a little

775
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: it's strange. He applied to be admitted to the federal

776
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 2: court in North Dakota right around the time this lawsuit

777
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 2: got filed.

778
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 3: Huh.

779
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: But then he didn't actually enter an appearance until the

780
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: judge said, yeah, they've been served. You can't hide. So

781
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,880
Speaker 2: he did know about it, Yeah, he was just yes,

782
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: guess it seems like it seems like he knew he

783
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 2: was just working with Patriot Front to make it harder

784
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 2: to be served. Is again, that's not that's not a

785
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 2: legal claim I'm making. I'm just just making a guess.

786
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 2: I'm just saying he has never practiced in North Dakota before.

787
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 2: But he did apply to be admitted to the court

788
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 2: around the time the lawsuit was file. That's a interesting

789
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: The boss and case is a little wilder, right, So

790
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 2: it's twenty twenty four, we're all online, and it's not

791
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 2: actually unheard of to get permission from the court to

792
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 2: serve someone electronically if you've tried everything else. Yeah, I've

793
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 2: heard of cases where someone got served by a Facebook messenger,

794
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: which just feels demeaning. Wow, that's that's so depressing. Imagine

795
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: you can send a minion sticker with it. Oh God,

796
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 2: horrible vibes. But I need to do a little more

797
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: research to figure out if this is the first time

798
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: a federal judge has had to decide whether a gab

799
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:37,960
Speaker 2: DM is legally.

800
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,800
Speaker 3: Notice that you know your joke. There's no way, no,

801
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 3: absolutely not. Yeah, yeah, okay, well we will we will

802
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 3: learn what GAB is after I take a break. I

803
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 3: need to like walk around for a few minutes and

804
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 3: just process that for a second. One you guys, yea,

805
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 3: here's here's some ads. I'm just I'm just going to

806
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 3: process that for a while while all right, we are

807
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 3: back get Molly. I hope that a lot of a

808
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 3: lot of our listeners don't know what GAB is.

809
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 2: They should hold on there.

810
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 3: But that means that you have to explain what GAB is,

811
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 3: which isn't that hard. It's just kind of annoying.

812
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 2: It's just sort of like a less functional Facebook for Nazis.

813
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 3: Well, I think originally it was Twitter for Nazis, but

814
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 3: now Twitter is Twitter for Nazis, but it.

815
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: Has more of a sort of Facebook interface. To me,

816
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: oh I I always I always.

817
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 3: Thought of it as having a way more of like

818
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 3: a like an older Twitter uter Fate yet.

819
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 2: Because it has it has like groups and a marketplace,

820
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 2: like it.

821
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 3: Does have groups of market But I think it started

822
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,720
Speaker 3: as a Twitter clone that started to add Facebook features.

823
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 3: That's mostly it's like sort.

824
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 2: Of like the evolutionary thing where everything turns into crabs

825
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 2: boomers turn everything into Facebook.

826
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, exactly. It is the Facebook evocation of all

827
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,279
Speaker 3: social media. I think those changes were made to like

828
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 3: to support more like a collaboration between users, because they

829
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 3: wanted it to be like a place where Nazis could

830
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 3: like also organize. But yeah, it very much started and

831
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 3: like what a year it was like twenty eighteen ish,

832
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 3: I want.

833
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,240
Speaker 2: To say twenty sixteen. Oh, I could pull the incorporation documents.

834
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: I think I think it's a little older than that.

835
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 2: But it wasn't popular until I.

836
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 3: Didn't get a Gap account until twenty eighteen.

837
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 2: It was in the news a lot on twenty eighteen. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

838
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: mass shooters were using it and then their accounts were

839
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 2: in the court documents. But it was already, you know,

840
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 2: popular among certain sets.

841
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 3: It was certainly around for a while. Their logo is

842
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,720
Speaker 3: a frog. I'm sure there's nothing I'm sure that's completely normal,

843
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 3: but yeah, it started off as just a social media

844
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 3: app for Nazis, almost exclusively used by white supremacists.

845
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 2: It's a free speech platform.

846
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 3: It is a free speech platform. It was kind of

847
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 3: it was I like Parlor came a few years later,

848
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 3: which was more like a maga ish version, like Gab

849
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 3: was for like actual Nazis, right, Whereas Parlor you could

850
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 3: find like, you know, like like anyone from like mega people,

851
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 3: conservative politicians, you could you found a lot of like

852
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 3: Proud Boy chapters. But Gab was like, no, you were

853
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:26,800
Speaker 3: like explicitly white supremacists.

854
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 2: There's not a lot of plausible deniability in a GAB

855
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 2: account the way there was maybe with Parlor. A little bit.

856
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 3: Now a Gab is still a thing. I think I

857
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 3: mostly use it to watch the GDL, who posts a

858
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 3: lot on GAB, But I think a lot of unfortunately,

859
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of people who were on gab are

860
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 3: just now back on actual Twitter.

861
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: Or in prison.

862
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 3: And you know, some would say that those two things

863
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 3: and a lot of govin which is not actually true

864
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 3: because prison is way worth the.

865
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: Same The same posts kind of got them to both places,

866
00:41:59,040 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: just different.

867
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, anyway, so okay, but that's yeah. I did

868
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 3: not know that a future of GAB could be serving

869
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 3: could be serving some lawsuit papers. That is something I

870
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 3: did not know.

871
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 2: Well, it turns out you can't attach a PDF to

872
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: a gab DM, so we didn't run into some trouble.

873
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 3: Oh my god, this is so dumb.

874
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: So Charles Morrell's lawyers were given permission to serve Patriot

875
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: Front and Thomas Rousseau via several online means. Right, so

876
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: in this motion for this this permission for alternate service,

877
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 2: they identified two email addresses and social media accounts regularly

878
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 2: used by the group on Telegram, Odyssey, bitshoot and GAB.

879
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,720
Speaker 3: I mean, I certainly would have gone for Telegram Odyssey

880
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 3: and bit shoot are like YouTube and Twitch clones for nazis.

881
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 3: In case the listener is curious, don't go there. Don't

882
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 3: not worry, do not go there. My god, I be

883
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 3: I have been on there way too much this week,

884
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 3: and I have seen some of the worst hit.

885
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: It's not good on there. No, it's a process server, right.

886
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 2: This person who normally just like waits outside your work

887
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 2: to serve you with papers is like now on gab right.

888
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 2: So the process server contacted all of the identified accounts.

889
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 2: And so when I was researching this, you know, I was

890
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: trying to get an idea of how common this is,

891
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 2: what the usual means are, And so I was looking

892
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 2: through the cited case law and the motion, and one

893
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 2: of the cases they cited kind of caught my eye.

894
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 2: It's halish V. Bin Laden.

895
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 3: Oh no, him, that name sounds familiar. Was was he

896
00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 3: the one that did that thing around like twenty twenty

897
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 3: three ish years ago?

898
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 2: Was it born then? How old I was?

899
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 3: I was not?

900
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 2: Oh no, I was kidding, Jesus, I was just ribbing you.

901
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Unfortunately. Yeah, Well it is that bin Laden, right,

902
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: it is it is they.

903
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:45,600
Speaker 3: It is the guy.

904
00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 2: Okay, it's the one, the one you're thinking of. So

905
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 2: that's a lawsuit that was brought by families of people

906
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 2: who died at nine to eleven. So last year, a

907
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 2: federal judge in New York gave those plaintiffs permission to

908
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 2: serve legal notice to the Taliban via Twitter DM like

909
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 2: the Taliban, what a time to be alive? What a

910
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: time to be alive?

911
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, I the Taliban Twitter account is certainly fascinating.

912
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 3: They're trying to hold the Taliban responsible for nine to eleven. Huh.

913
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: I do want to get like deep into the weeds

914
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 2: about this particular case. But there's something seized. So like

915
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 2: judgments have been awarded, there are seized funds sitting somewhere

916
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 2: in the released they want they want this money, right,

917
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 2: and so they needed to serve notice to the Taliban

918
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 2: that they want this money. And so as wild as

919
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: that sounds, there's actually a lot of similarities in the

920
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 2: underlying legal logic here. So in both of these cases,

921
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: the court is pretty specific that they're not just saying like, yeah,

922
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: just like DM whoever and it's good enough.

923
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 3: Right.

924
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 2: So in both of these cases, the account identified as

925
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 2: being appropriate for service is pretty clear that it belongs

926
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 2: to the person who's supposed to be served, and that

927
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: that particular account has been used to make statements that

928
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,799
Speaker 2: indicate the individual already knows about the lawsuit. So this

929
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 2: DMS the service by a DMK's going to be a surprise, right,

930
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: This isn't going to be the first time you're hearing

931
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 2: about this. Like the court knows that you know, okay,

932
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 2: which I just need to see the red receipt that

933
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: you know.

934
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 3: Aha, got it.

935
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: So in the case of the Taliban, the court notes

936
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 2: that the accounts had previously published press releases related to

937
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 2: the funds at issue in the underlying litigation. So it's

938
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 2: like they they're posting about it. They know they're certainly

939
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: posting the talent. The Taliban is posting about the funds, okay.

940
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 2: So in this case, it's Russeau's bravado biting you in

941
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 2: the ass, right, and she.

942
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 3: Loves and he loves posting. My god.

943
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: And the judge specifically refers to the fact that they

944
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 2: posted the video of the incident the day the suit

945
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 2: was filed, which indicates actual knowledge.

946
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 3: Yes, which is also a very interesting legal move on

947
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 3: the part of Russo.

948
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: Like, the judge is reading your posts and he doesn't

949
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:44,799
Speaker 2: think they're good.

950
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Uh, nothing more scary than having to

951
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 3: read out your posts to a federal judge.

952
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ post every day, like a judge is gonna

953
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 2: read them over your shoulder, right, Yes, so they're just

954
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 2: like randomly and for totally unrelated reasons, losting this thirteen

955
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: month old video the day the lawsuit gets filed.

956
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 3: The judgesn't buy that fast. Again, a fascinating legal move.

957
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,399
Speaker 2: And so back to the Richmond case, right, we're still

958
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 2: talking about service. So the Richmond Keys, because it was

959
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 2: filed first, maybe they weren't expecting to get sued, And

960
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 2: because more of those plaintiffs were actually identified by anti

961
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 2: fascist researchers, they actually did manage to serve most of

962
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: their defendants. They found Thomas Dale, Nathan Noyce, aident Tradinnick,

963
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 2: and Daniel Cherecci at their homes. A private investigator tracks

964
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 2: Jacob Brown down hiding at a home owned by his

965
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 2: mother in like upstate New York. William Ring was.

966
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,240
Speaker 3: Actually, sorry, Moll, God, what a bunch of losers.

967
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: But William Ring was actually the easiest defendant to find.

968
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 2: His papers were actually handed to someone to give to him.

969
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: But this person was authorized to receive those papers because

970
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 2: they were a corrections officer at the Fayette County Prison

971
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania. Ah Ring was a guest up there, serving

972
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 2: a sentence for beating a man over the head with

973
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 2: a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire.

974
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 3: HM. Curious it was.

975
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 2: An altercation over refrigerator. It's very unclear.

976
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 3: Oh, that's so sad. I thought it was gonna be

977
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 3: like some horrible racist assault, and there could be an

978
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 3: element of racism in this. I'm not familiar with the case.

979
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 2: No, don't worry, Garrison. He was there for a second

980
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 2: defense that occurred around the same time, but separately separate counties,

981
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 2: even where he punched a child in the face after

982
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 2: telling her to go back to Mexico.

983
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 3: Okay, see that is what I That's what I was expecting.

984
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: All right, Yeah, that sounds about right.

985
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: Man. It does suck that sending Nazis to prison also

986
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 3: has so many negative consequences. Fix. The furthering of the

987
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:41,240
Speaker 3: White Premaces project is really reliant on there being Nazis

988
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 3: in prison, and it sucks that that is such an

989
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,360
Speaker 3: organizational hub of them, because these people should not be

990
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 3: around other people. Ah Man. Yeah.

991
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 2: Just as an interesting aside in both of those criminal cases,

992
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: he hired a guy I've seen before, very interesting. His

993
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,439
Speaker 2: name is Josh Smith. He was the lawyer that Matt

994
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 2: Heinbach hired to represent him in this Kesler case a

995
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 2: few years ago. Man, he's interesting to see an old

996
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 2: friend again.

997
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 3: Man with the most real name, Josh Smith.

998
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 2: Oh, it's because it's not his real name.

999
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 3: That's well, there we go.

1000
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 2: He was he was born Daniel Nussbaum.

1001
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 3: Of course, of course he was. I I clocked that immediately. Wow. Good,

1002
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 3: good for me. Yeah.

1003
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 2: No, he was raised Jewish. But now he's a Holocaust

1004
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 2: and I an.

1005
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 3: Oh, what this is so sad? Oh my god, he

1006
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 3: joined to not see gay.

1007
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, what the fuck?

1008
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 3: Oh god, he's like, I have to pick a wider name.

1009
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,040
Speaker 3: Josh Smith. Wow, what a loser.

1010
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 2: He's not a very good lawyer either. His performance, his

1011
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 2: performance in the science case with some of the strangest

1012
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:51,080
Speaker 2: courtroom behavior I've I've ever seen, Like the judge had

1013
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: to keep reminding him of like you can't like that's

1014
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 2: not the law, Like you can't just say stuff.

1015
00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 3: I love a courtroom behavior being described as strange.

1016
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 2: Like when the judge has to repeatedly remind you like

1017
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: how the law works, like how making motions works, Like

1018
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: you can't just yell stuff. It was the rough trial

1019
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 2: for him. His client does oh millions of dollars.

1020
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 3: He's the reverse Saul Goodman. Oh my gosh, Jesus Christ.

1021
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: Someone having hired him for his criminal cases and is

1022
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 2: in prison. Oh, he didn't hire him to represent him

1023
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 2: in this lawsuit because he didn't get a lawyer and

1024
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 2: he defaulted. And so if you default on a case,

1025
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 2: it means you're not allowed to participate anymore. And so

1026
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 2: the case is going to keep going and maybe you

1027
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 2: get found liable, but like, you don't get to participate anymore.

1028
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:40,879
Speaker 2: So when it's over, if you're liable, like.

1029
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 3: That's kind of fucking fuck you. Huh.

1030
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 2: And so Thomas Rousseau, Jacob Brown, and Patriot Front are

1031
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,120
Speaker 2: also defaulted in that lawsuit. But the other guys, the

1032
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:55,239
Speaker 2: other guys got a lawyer. They hired another guy we've

1033
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 2: seen before. His name is Glenn Allen. He's a Maryland

1034
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 2: based attorney who lost his job as council for the

1035
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,600
Speaker 2: Baltimore Police Department after the SPLC identified him as a

1036
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,280
Speaker 2: longtime member of the old school neo Nazi group National Alliance.

1037
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 3: Wow, huh. Curious that that the police would have a

1038
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 3: Nazi lawyer. That's weird. Surely there's nothing to interrogate, There.

1039
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,800
Speaker 2: No there's nothing weird going on in Baltimore at the

1040
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 2: police department at all.

1041
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,720
Speaker 3: It is certainly funny that they desired the old police

1042
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 3: Nazi lawyer for their Nazi club, A lawyer who's someone

1043
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,880
Speaker 3: who's been fighting from the police from being a Nazi.

1044
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 2: So he's been keeping pretty busy the last few years.

1045
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 2: He spent a couple of years trying to sue the

1046
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: SPLC for saying true stuff about him being a member

1047
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 2: of National Alliance. It didn't work out. Didn't work out,

1048
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 2: and he currently represents Warren Baylong in a doomed appeal

1049
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 2: of a previously dismiss lawsuit against the City of Charlottesville,

1050
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 2: who're failing to protect his right to have a good

1051
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:57,600
Speaker 2: time at Unite the Right. Well, it's sort of I

1052
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 2: don't know, it's like feels a little slapstick right, Like

1053
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 2: we're just like throwing characters in there. We've got We've

1054
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 2: got the formerly Jewish Holocaust deny are Nazi. We've got

1055
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 2: the guy in prison for punching a little girl. Oh,

1056
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 2: the girl he told to go back to Mexico is

1057
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,919
Speaker 2: Puerto Rican. I don't know that that matters to him.

1058
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 2: But she she can't she can't go back to Mexico.

1059
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 3: Not being racist. Challenge level impossible.

1060
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 2: We're just like throwing characters in here.

1061
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 3: We got to know, is it is very curtoonish. Yeah,

1062
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 3: but here we are at the end.

1063
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:32,520
Speaker 2: Right, I've taken up a lot of your time to

1064
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 2: take care of us and telling you my little story.

1065
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 2: But what happens now? Right, there's three live cases they're starting,

1066
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 2: They're starting to crawl forward now that the judges agreed

1067
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,320
Speaker 2: that you can serve them. I'm so excited for discovery.

1068
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 2: My god, it's gonna be a treat. It's for me anyway.

1069
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 2: I'm getting the documents now. Obviously, the plaintiff's goal here

1070
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 2: is recovery of damages. That's what the law allows for.

1071
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 2: They can they sue because they want to recover damages,

1072
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 2: and I wish them well in that. But I'm not

1073
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 2: holding my breath. I think we can get some idea

1074
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: of what to expect here by looking back at the

1075
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 2: Science by Kessler lawsuit against the United the Right organizers.

1076
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 2: It took four years to get to trial. Discovery was

1077
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 2: stymied by guys dropping their phones in toilets.

1078
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 3: We're just not showing up. I'm sure a lot of

1079
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 3: what these lawyers are doing are collaborating with defendants to

1080
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,480
Speaker 3: make as a little come out in discovery as possible,

1081
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 3: because that is beyond the actual court case. The thing

1082
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 3: that could actually be most damaging to them is discovery,

1083
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,759
Speaker 3: Like that is the actual thing. So I'm sure they're

1084
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 3: using all this extra time when they're avoiding recognizing the

1085
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 3: lawsuit to try to tidy up any dirty laundry they

1086
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 3: may have in a semi legal fashion.

1087
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,839
Speaker 2: Well, they can't do that, and so I'm not going

1088
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 2: to accuse anyone of a crime. Right, destruction of evidence

1089
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 2: is not allowed. It's called spoliation. Right, So once you

1090
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: have actual knowledge that you're being sued, you are no

1091
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: longer allowed to destroy anything that might be discoverable'll do it?

1092
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 3: Sure do they always kick cot?

1093
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 2: No? Am I implying that anyone is committing a crime

1094
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 2: at this juncture legally?

1095
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 3: No?

1096
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 2: Well we'll see. But you know, looking back at science,

1097
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody's gonna squeeze a few million out

1098
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 2: of any of those guys, right, Like they were found liable,

1099
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 2: but they're not gonna pay. Right, And Thomas Russeau started

1100
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 2: running his fascist club for friendless boys, right, out of

1101
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 2: high school. He doesn't have a job, he doesn't have assets,

1102
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 2: he's not gonna pay anybody any money. But what it

1103
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 2: can do is slow them down. They have to get lawyers,

1104
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 2: they have to show up in court, they have to

1105
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 2: participate in discovery. We've already seen plenty of leaked coms

1106
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 2: and internal planning documents, but now those documents and more

1107
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 2: will be entered into the court record.

1108
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 3: Right.

1109
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 2: So you know researchers like you and I, we put

1110
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 2: out information all the time and people see it and

1111
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 2: it makes a difference. But when something comes in with

1112
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,799
Speaker 2: sort of the impromature of the court's legitimacy, Like once

1113
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 2: you put a bait's number on that bad boy, they

1114
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 2: could put it on the news, the real news were

1115
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 2: normal people.

1116
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 3: Right, yes, not your like niche, not your niche like

1117
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 3: no blogs the site that like twelve people check it.

1118
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 2: On, right, So like your mom watching Matt Out is

1119
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 2: going to see this, where like she's not reading Unicorn Riot.

1120
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 2: So this will put this information in front of more people,

1121
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 2: will have more legitimacy. But I think the biggest impact

1122
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 2: this is going to have is on the willingness of

1123
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 2: potential members and current members to participate, right.

1124
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it makes things way more risky for people wanting

1125
00:54:31,120 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 3: to do this sort of stuff.

1126
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 2: Like, maybe you're gonna think twice about your group mandated

1127
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 2: racial intimidation now that you know you might have to

1128
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 2: pay for that. Yeah, you know, maybe joining looks a

1129
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 2: little less appealing. You know, it's hard to be optimistic

1130
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:48,520
Speaker 2: about relying on the courts to meaningfully undermine white supremacist organizing. Sure,

1131
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,479
Speaker 2: but it's worth a shot to gum up the works

1132
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 2: with whatever tools you have.

1133
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I may not believe in like the law system

1134
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 3: TM as this as this like universally good thing, or

1135
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:02,200
Speaker 3: even like a like a like a valid thing, but

1136
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 3: I'm certainly willing to have it severely, uh, inconvenience my

1137
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 3: ontological enemies.

1138
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 2: Like is it the best solution?

1139
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 3: No?

1140
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:16,839
Speaker 2: Is it a solution? Maybe not at all. It's worth

1141
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,480
Speaker 2: a shot, it'll be you know, I'm gonna enjoy reading

1142
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:20,399
Speaker 2: the documents either way.

1143
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 3: Absolutely, No, that is. I am extremely intrigued to see

1144
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:28,479
Speaker 3: what will come out, uh in discovery, and I wish

1145
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:34,759
Speaker 3: these people only the worst. So well, Molly, that was

1146
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:39,239
Speaker 3: that was fantastic. That was extremely informative. You know, I

1147
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 3: always think it's impossible to find new ways to laugh

1148
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 3: at Patriot Front. Yet here here we.

1149
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 2: Are imagine opening that DM. I wish they had record

1150
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 2: they record everything. I wish they'd been recording that.

1151
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 3: God, it'd be funny. Yeah, imagine getting served via GAB.

1152
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,719
Speaker 3: I would just get you know, I I shouldn't say

1153
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:04,080
Speaker 3: that anyway. Well, where can people find you online, Molly?

1154
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 3: Besides on our show?

1155
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:09,400
Speaker 2: Now I know, I'm very excited to be here. You

1156
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 2: can find me on Twitter at Socialist dog Mom, my

1157
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,840
Speaker 2: name I chose as a little joke before I realized

1158
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 2: it was going to be my job.

1159
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 3: That is mean, that is the same. That is the

1160
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,080
Speaker 3: same thing with my Twitter presence. So we are we

1161
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:22,319
Speaker 3: are in the same boat there.

1162
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mostly just find me on Twitter. You can

1163
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:29,920
Speaker 2: find me on my my ghost newsletter. It's like substack,

1164
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 2: but there's less Nazis there. It's called the Devil's Advocates.

1165
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: There's a link to it on my Twitter. I post

1166
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 2: about what happens when you take white supremacy to court.

1167
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 3: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Molly. We we will

1168
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 3: we will talk again soon to learn about I'm sure

1169
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 3: even even new and more more ridiculous things that you

1170
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,040
Speaker 3: have stumbled across by reading those documents, I am too

1171
00:56:53,080 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 3: adhd to look.

1172
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 2: At it only ever gets worse. Garrison.

1173
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,240
Speaker 1: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

1174
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1175
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1176
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

1177
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: find sources for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at

1178
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: Coolzonmedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening,