Speaker 1: We only obsess over people who aren't fully available to us.
Speaker 1: The obsession can be mistaken for a spark, where there's
Speaker 1: something we're projecting onto someone that is so full on
Speaker 1: it feels like an obsession.
Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Jay Shetty, and I'm so excited to introduce you to
Speaker 2: someone that I'm a huge fan of.
Speaker 3: I've been following her.
Speaker 2: For a couple of years now, loving all of her content,
Speaker 2: engage with it regularly and consistently. And then when I
Speaker 2: was on tour this year, I actually had the opportunity
Speaker 2: to meet her, and now we finally have her in
Speaker 2: the On Purpose studio. I'm speaking about Quinlan Walfa, a
Speaker 2: writer and relationship coach transforming the way millions of people
Speaker 2: think about love. Quinlan's viral videos on dating, self trust,
Speaker 2: and connection have reached millions of people worldwide. If you
Speaker 2: don't follow her already, make sure you do after this conversation.
Speaker 2: Quinlan is helping people break unhealthy patterns, build deeper connections,
Speaker 2: and create relationships that feel safe, intentional, and fulfilling. Please
Speaker 2: welcome to On Purpose, Quinlan Walther Or q Q. I'm
Speaker 2: so glad to have you.
Speaker 1: Here, Jay, It's so good to see you. Thank you
Speaker 1: for having me.
Speaker 2: Of course, I am so excited to dive in. I
Speaker 2: have so many things to talk to you about. I
Speaker 2: know our audience is going to absolutely love this conversation
Speaker 2: because they're constantly trying to figure out love and relationships
Speaker 2: and dating. I feel like that's on we all exactly.
Speaker 2: I feel like it's the need of the hour, which
Speaker 2: is such a beautiful thing as well. And the first
Speaker 2: question I wanted to ask you is what's the difference
Speaker 2: between wanting a relationship and being ready for a relationship.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite ways to frame this, which I
Speaker 1: think we cannot really too, is you shouldn't go grocery
Speaker 1: shopping when you're starving. We don't tend to make the
Speaker 1: best choices. We grab the first thing we see. We
Speaker 1: grab all the things that we want that look exciting, right, ooh,
Speaker 1: that'll taste so good. I want this, I want that,
Speaker 1: not necessarily what we need, and that, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: applies to dating and relationships as well. When you go
Speaker 1: out into the world, you start dating, you're looking for
Speaker 1: a relationship. You want to have a pretty solid understanding
Speaker 1: of what it is that you're looking for. You want
Speaker 1: to have a pretty solid understanding of how you love yourself,
Speaker 1: how you show up for yourself, of the life you
Speaker 1: want to create for yourself, the relationship that would be
Speaker 1: an added bonus to that life that you want to create.
Speaker 1: Rather than feel like you're trying to fill a void,
Speaker 1: you end up seeking connections from a place of desperation
Speaker 1: that can't be fulfilling because it's essentially pouring into a
Speaker 1: bottomless pit of a trying to fill this bottomless void. So,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, asking yourself those questions first, really spending
Speaker 1: time understanding who you are, what you want, how you
Speaker 1: can love yourself, how you can support yourself, how you
Speaker 1: can commit to building a life you like, and the
Speaker 1: relationship that could be a bonus. I also want to
Speaker 1: add the caveat that it's not as if you have
Speaker 1: to go hide away, do all of those things and
Speaker 1: then come out and find the relationship. It can happen
Speaker 1: at pretty much the same time with the focus being
Speaker 1: on understanding all the things I just said, who you are,
Speaker 1: what you want, et cetera, and not go looking for
Speaker 1: love when you are metaphorically starving.
Speaker 3: I love that truth.
Speaker 2: Bum that's that's huge already, the idea that we're constantly
Speaker 2: looking for love when we're starving, rather than being really
Speaker 2: really clear and being in a healthy sense of hunger,
Speaker 2: Like you have an appetite, but you're not starving, because
Speaker 2: we all know that when you're starving, you're so spawn.
Speaker 2: I think about all I was. I was literally going
Speaker 2: through all the bad decisions I've made at.
Speaker 1: The grocery store, what.
Speaker 2: I eat when I'm starving. I will pull up at
Speaker 2: a gas station, I will buy two bags of chips.
Speaker 3: Yep. Yeah, totally like everything that.
Speaker 2: You don't want to be having, and then on the
Speaker 2: way home, you're regretting it.
Speaker 1: And you love it while you're eating it the best
Speaker 1: while it's there, and it's, oh, this is everything that
Speaker 1: I wanted. And then ten minutes later, you're probably hungry again.
Speaker 1: You're probably crashed out from the sugar high, you need
Speaker 1: a nap, and you feel even more exhausted and still
Speaker 1: hungry after you're done. I feel like that just directly
Speaker 1: applies to the kind of relationships, the kind of connections
Speaker 1: that we choose when we're acting from that place of starvation, desperation, emptiness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the hard part about that is that it's
Speaker 2: so real today to feel that way, to feel lonely,
Speaker 2: to feel desperate, to feel not chosen. What do we
Speaker 2: do with all those emotions then, because we're used to
Speaker 2: running for the quick solve, because those emotions are so
Speaker 2: heavy and hard to sit in. What do you do
Speaker 2: with all those emotions when you're not getting to just
Speaker 2: curb your craving by getting some fast food or fast love.
Speaker 1: Build self trust. Self trust is imperative for liking who
Speaker 1: you are, understanding who you are, making decisions that align
Speaker 1: with who you really want to be, and of course
Speaker 1: that pays off in our relationships. There are four s's
Speaker 1: when it comes to self trust, in my opinion. First
Speaker 1: one is curiosity. Are you curious about who you are,
Speaker 1: why you do what you do, the feelings that you feel,
Speaker 1: your motives and intentions behind the decisions that you make.
Speaker 1: What you want out of life? Is there curiosity? You
Speaker 1: can't trust yourself if you don't know yourself, and from
Speaker 1: curiosity can come comprehension, So it's really important that you
Speaker 1: lead with curiosity. The second one is capacity, So that's
Speaker 1: emotional flexibility, emotional stability. Like you just asked, what do
Speaker 1: we do with these big emotions, you build the capacity
Speaker 1: to stay anchored in who you are even when you
Speaker 1: feel really sad, even when you feel really helpless or
Speaker 1: hopeless or overwhelmed, angry, frustrated. Can you find an anchor
Speaker 1: in yourself that you can support yourself through all of
Speaker 1: those emotions. That's capacity. The third one is compassion, having
Speaker 1: humanity for who you are. Having an understanding that you
Speaker 1: are a flawed human who makes some poor decisions sometimes
Speaker 1: right and being able to meet yourself with a softness,
Speaker 1: with a warmth is imperative, like it absolutely paramount. And
Speaker 1: we're talking a lot about relationships here today. If you
Speaker 1: aren't compassionate with yourself, you'll be far less likely to
Speaker 1: be compassionate with the people around you and your significant
Speaker 1: other and such. The changes we want to make don't
Speaker 1: typically happen from a place of rigidity, blame, shame, judgment.
Speaker 1: They happen from a place of compassion and support and love.
Speaker 1: And then, finally, the fourth one is commitment. The fourth
Speaker 1: sea is commitment, your commitment, your devotion to being who
Speaker 1: you want to be, making decisions that really align with that,
Speaker 1: and building a life that feels so fulfilling so good
Speaker 1: from within. There's no way around it. You can have
Speaker 1: the first three. If you don't have the commitment to
Speaker 1: bring who you want to be, to fruition to building
Speaker 1: that life, things go astray. So you need that fourth
Speaker 1: one as well.
Speaker 2: I like the forces, thank yeah, And they feel like
Speaker 2: they take a lot of time. I can't imagine doing
Speaker 2: that in a month or three months. And like you said,
Speaker 2: I think I think our idea around doing work before dating,
Speaker 2: and you alluded to this in a healthy sense, we
Speaker 2: kind of at one point started to believe we had
Speaker 2: to be complete before we met someone. And as someone
Speaker 2: I've been married now for nine years and with my
Speaker 2: wife for twelve, I thought I knew how I was
Speaker 2: when we met and that was a good foundation. But
Speaker 2: I have discovered so much more about myself and grown
Speaker 2: so much more in the last twelve years than what
Speaker 2: I thought. And so this idea that we have to
Speaker 2: be fully formed, fully complete, fully perfect before we meet
Speaker 2: someone doesn't really add up.
Speaker 1: Uh A. I would even say any relationship will change
Speaker 1: you some for the better. Somethn't any change happening in
Speaker 1: the relationship, you probably aren't actually showing up to it.
Speaker 1: And more to your point when you enter a healthy, safe,
Speaker 1: loving relationship, it's going to reflect back to you the
Speaker 1: parts of you that you haven't yet seen worked on,
Speaker 1: grown through, grown out of, grown around. But I believe
Speaker 1: you have to be able to discern what is versus
Speaker 1: what is judgment or a lack of acceptance or an
Speaker 1: opportunity for growth anyway, because Roddy could come to you
Speaker 1: and say, Jay, I'm really noticing that you haven't been
Speaker 1: present with me and I miss you. You know, I
Speaker 1: want more time with you. If you don't have the
Speaker 1: awareness that that's probably coming from a place of love,
Speaker 1: from a desire to improve your relationship. If you don't
Speaker 1: have a growth mindset, you'll get defensive, you'll snap back,
Speaker 1: you won't listen, and you'll drive a wedge even further
Speaker 1: between the two of you. So I think you need
Speaker 1: to practice some of those fources so that you have
Speaker 1: the awareness of what growth feels like, what it's like
Speaker 1: to meet yourself, so that when you're in a relationship
Speaker 1: that is asking you to grow more, there's already a
Speaker 1: familiarity there. I do think that's important.
Speaker 3: It's so important.
Speaker 2: But what's so interesting about your saying what you're saying
Speaker 2: and I'm so glad you've gone in that direction. Is
Speaker 2: you're saying, relationships take growth and out almost for growth,
Speaker 2: but we don't get into them wanting that. We get
Speaker 2: into them wanting pleasure or joy or relief or companionship.
Speaker 2: And what you just said is, well, no, it's about growth.
Speaker 2: Talk to me about that difference between our expectation and
Speaker 2: why you think relationships are actually about growth.
Speaker 1: As you grow, as you know yourself, like yourself, all
Speaker 1: the things we talked about, you don't need as much
Speaker 1: from the relationship itself. You aren't expecting the person that
Speaker 1: you're with to be a validation machine to meet you
Speaker 1: in every way, in every moment, all the time, so
Speaker 1: perfectly you can show up and actually allow the other
Speaker 1: person to meet you in this almost third entity, there's you,
Speaker 1: the other person, and then the relationship that you create together,
Speaker 1: and that means I get to bring my insecurities, you
Speaker 1: get to bring your insecurities. I get to bring my
Speaker 1: good stuff, you your goods, right, and we meet each
Speaker 1: other there. And it's the point of a relationship is
Speaker 1: just to relate to another person, right, to walk alongside them,
Speaker 1: to be a source of love, encouragement, enthusiasm and to
Speaker 1: grow individually in your own right. But I agree with
Speaker 1: you that I think one of the biggest problems today
Speaker 1: with people or for people who haven't really taken the
Speaker 1: time to try and meet themselves, it is what can
Speaker 1: I get? What can I get? I'm not getting enough.
Speaker 1: I need to get more. This isn't what I wanted,
Speaker 1: with very little consideration for the other person in this
Speaker 1: third entity that is the relationship.
Speaker 2: It's something that I'm really grappling with as we're talking
Speaker 2: about it to try and help people shift their perspective,
Speaker 2: because we're not saying that it's growth that is growth
Speaker 2: that you that brings you pain or stress, or we're
Speaker 2: saying it's growth that inspires you to become better and
Speaker 2: be better. And it may take you a second to
Speaker 2: make it in seaspiring for each other. So in the
Speaker 2: start it may rub you. So for example, as you said,
Speaker 2: when Rady comes up to me at the beginning and says, hey,
Speaker 2: I need you to do this or that my ego
Speaker 2: is quite high, and I go, well, why don't you
Speaker 2: do it for yourself? And then it drives a wedge
Speaker 2: between us, and then over time you respect and love
Speaker 2: so much about this person that you start to go, well,
Speaker 2: wait a minute, maybe they're saying it from the right place.
Speaker 2: Now I've grown to have the ability to recognize that
Speaker 2: everything she says is from a place of love, and
Speaker 2: now maybe I'll be able to receive it. And the
Speaker 2: third time she says it, I'm almost noticing I've been
Speaker 2: not present.
Speaker 3: Myself, and I can say, hey, I haven't.
Speaker 2: Been present, and now we're not trying to live in
Speaker 2: a world where I am always fully present, because that's
Speaker 2: never going to happen. That's not realistic. But it goes
Speaker 2: from her saying it and me being triggered to her
Speaker 2: saying it and me being aware, and then me noticing
Speaker 2: it even before she says it, so that I'm actually
Speaker 2: able to explain why I may not be present. Sometimes
Speaker 2: I'll say to rather, Hey, you know what, the next
Speaker 2: week's really.
Speaker 3: Intense for me.
Speaker 2: I think I'm just going to be a bit less
Speaker 2: around because I've got some things to focus on and
Speaker 2: I just want you to know it's got nothing to
Speaker 2: do with you, or I've just got a lot on
Speaker 2: right now. And I find that that's really helpful for
Speaker 2: a relationship.
Speaker 1: And that's emotional safety. Choosing a partner and building a
Speaker 1: relationship that is based in trust, emotional safety, your ability
Speaker 1: to see here Roddy's take, and trust that she's coming
Speaker 1: from a loving place, not from a critical place, not
Speaker 1: from a defensive place. That requires emotional stability, that requires
Speaker 1: emotional safety. So when you choose a partner, look at
Speaker 1: this in early dating is what is the character of
Speaker 1: the person that you're seeing. How do they treat their friends,
Speaker 1: how do they treat their family? Are they a person
Speaker 1: of integrity? Are they typically kind and well intentioned? Because
Speaker 1: that's going to bloom into a relationship with that same character.
Speaker 1: Right where someone gives you feedback, This person that you're
Speaker 1: building a relationship with, gives you feedback. Can you trust
Speaker 1: that they're well intentioned in their feedback, that what they're
Speaker 1: asking for or what they're reflecting back to you is
Speaker 1: for the greater good of your connection, right or of
Speaker 1: simply a request to love them better, to love them
Speaker 1: in the way that they want to be loved. And
Speaker 1: assuming you want to be a person who does that,
Speaker 1: assuming you want to be a person who participates in
Speaker 1: the emotional safety and the stability, then you're able to
Speaker 1: hear that underneath the request or the feedback, et cetera,
Speaker 1: rather than get defensive. But it requires trust and it
Speaker 1: requires emotional safety.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, And how do you know the difference between
Speaker 2: someone's request being inherently good versus unreasonable? Because I imagine
Speaker 2: when people are dating, they may hear quite often, Hey,
Speaker 2: I don't think you're present, or you missed my friend's birthday,
Speaker 2: or you miss this, you miss that, and you almost
Speaker 2: feel like they're not hearing you. How do you make
Speaker 2: sense or decipher between someone's feedback being inherently good and
Speaker 2: for the relationship versus just being an unreasonable request.
Speaker 1: If there's too much black and white thinking. If someone
Speaker 1: comes to you and says, you skipped my friend's birthday,
Speaker 1: you didn't remember that important meeting that I had last week,
Speaker 1: and you forgot to take out the trash, you must
Speaker 1: not love me, you don't care about this relationship, and
Speaker 1: I won't stand for it. I won't have it. That's unreasonable,
Speaker 1: that's ego speaking, that's an insecurity. That's not kind, that's
Speaker 1: not a loving way to communicate or to think. If
Speaker 1: someone can come to you and hold the nuance, there
Speaker 1: can see the color. Hey, you've been really stressed, right,
Speaker 1: you had a really busy week. You forgot about my meeting,
Speaker 1: you missed my friend's birthday, you forgot to do that,
Speaker 1: You forgot to take out the trash like you said
Speaker 1: that you would. I know you've been busy. Can I
Speaker 1: help support you in some way? And is there any
Speaker 1: way that you can make the event next week with
Speaker 1: me be really important?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: So it's being able to hold Hey, this hurts.
Speaker 3: Hey.
Speaker 1: I see where you're coming from. You're a human with
Speaker 1: finite capacity and I don't expect you to be a
Speaker 1: superhero here, and the relationship is important, right, There's so
Speaker 1: much color in there. So I think the straightforward answer
Speaker 1: to your question is if it's black and white, if
Speaker 1: it's demanding, and if it really only considers one perspective,
Speaker 1: one side, then you might want to consider a different approach.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's really great awareness for ourselves as well,
Speaker 2: because we don't want everyone else to communicate with us
Speaker 2: in an emotionally intelligent way. But then when it comes
Speaker 2: to us sharing our needs, and it's so interesting when
Speaker 2: you were saying that, it resonates so deeply. It makes
Speaker 2: so much sense, And then I go, where do people
Speaker 2: even learn all of this?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Like, we're doing this podcast so that people can learn
Speaker 2: and grow. But I'm listening to you going, I don't
Speaker 2: know anyone who naturally communicates that way because they didn't
Speaker 2: see that in their home. They didn't have that through
Speaker 2: friends or family. They didn't have any training, of course.
Speaker 2: And so we all do the other thing, which is
Speaker 2: you always choose yourself. You never show up for me,
Speaker 2: you don't love me. We all do that version. And
Speaker 2: so sometimes you're in a relationship with someone and you
Speaker 2: see that, but then you're like, but.
Speaker 3: I've been with everyone else and they you know, they're
Speaker 3: worse than you. So I guess this is it.
Speaker 1: You hear all the time. Love is consideration, right, Love
Speaker 1: is an action. Love is consideration, yes, but not consideration
Speaker 1: beyond someone's capacity. Right. People can only meet you as
Speaker 1: deeply as they've met themselves. They can only meet you
Speaker 1: given whatever whatever emotional resources they have available to them
Speaker 1: at any given time. And where we get stuck is
Speaker 1: expecting someone to anticipate and meet our needs all the time, uncommunicated,
Speaker 1: and then there's this devastating disappointment when they don't, when
Speaker 1: they don't show up the way that we want them to.
Speaker 1: That's not a lack of love, that's dependency. That's a
Speaker 1: parent child dynamic. Not having to ask, having all your
Speaker 1: needs tended to without it, you know, any forewarning or insight.
Speaker 1: That's not an adult adult partnership. So you have to
Speaker 1: consider the kind of relationship you want to build and
Speaker 1: the partner you want to be is the other half
Speaker 1: of that, because I'm assuming it's someone who is patient,
Speaker 1: who is willing to see the limited resources that someone
Speaker 1: has available at some time, can tolerate a certain amount
Speaker 1: of disappointment when you aren't met in the ways that
Speaker 1: you want to be met someone who's loving and warm
Speaker 1: in their communication and their understanding. When you know you
Speaker 1: want to be those things, then you can start practicing.
Speaker 1: Even if it wasn't shown to you. You can take
Speaker 1: stock of where you aren't showing up in those ways
Speaker 1: where you can be a little bit better at showing
Speaker 1: up in those ways. But I really really think it
Speaker 1: starts with accountability. First, take a look at your side
Speaker 1: of the street. When you've taken a look at your
Speaker 1: side of the street, if you're in a relationship, then
Speaker 1: bring it to a conversation, right like, Hey, let's co
Speaker 1: create this thing together. How can we do this together.
Speaker 1: I think that's the way I feel.
Speaker 2: So many people right now, I'm sure you hear it
Speaker 2: all the time are burnt out and exhausted with dating.
Speaker 3: They're just tired of dating.
Speaker 2: And they've either developed mindsets like there's no good men left,
Speaker 2: all the good men are taken. Oh you know, well,
Speaker 2: she's not quite right. Whatever it may be right, everyone
Speaker 2: has their version. But people are exhausted with dating. We
Speaker 2: talked about what happens when you got there starving? What
Speaker 2: do you do when you feel exhausted?
Speaker 1: No, you have two options. Number one, you can stop.
Speaker 1: You cannot date. That's an option. Take a breather. It
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a full time job. It doesn't
Speaker 1: have to feel like a full time job. It's good
Speaker 1: to focus on other things. Or you can shift your expectations.
Speaker 1: Not needing to walk into every first date as if
Speaker 1: you're interviewing for your future spouse, for the position of
Speaker 1: your future spouse, like such high stake, such high pressure.
Speaker 1: Can you go in and try to have fun? You know?
Speaker 1: Can you change the energy that you want to bring
Speaker 1: to the room where you're just meeting someone new. You're
Speaker 1: gonna go grab some dinner, You're gonna go grab coffee,
Speaker 1: you're gonna go grab drinks, whatever it is. Can I
Speaker 1: enjoy myself? Can I have fun with it? And deciding
Speaker 1: the energy you want to bring to the function typically
Speaker 1: allows you to enjoy the function more rather than feeling like, Okay,
Speaker 1: here we go again. Another disappointment, you know, another let down,
Speaker 1: another waste of time. Don't do anything with that mentality,
Speaker 1: with that energy, your attitude, so you can either stop
Speaker 1: or shift your energy, shift your perspective.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was being to a friend the other day and
Speaker 2: she was saying, she goes. She said to me, I
Speaker 2: just wish men realized how long it takes a gout
Speaker 2: get ready. And she was like I got ready. She
Speaker 2: was like I looked real cute. And she was like,
Speaker 2: he didn't say anything like this guy that you're on
Speaker 2: the first date with, he said. She didn't say I
Speaker 2: looked lovely. He didn't say it was nice to see me.
Speaker 2: He didn't say it was lovely. He was just like,
Speaker 2: I didn't feel like hem. Yeah, and she was so
Speaker 2: let down, and she was just like, I really put
Speaker 2: effort into how I, you know, got ready. I was
Speaker 2: excited about it, and it just felt like it wasn't
Speaker 2: just that he didn't notice her visually was she was
Speaker 2: like the conversation didn't go either. But I can imagine
Speaker 2: that that kind of feeling repetitively gets tiring. But at
Speaker 2: the same time, you're so right that it gets tiring
Speaker 2: when there's really high stakes on it every time and
Speaker 2: it being perfect or being the one or being the moment.
Speaker 2: It's almost like it's almost like you made it. You
Speaker 2: made it harder for yourself by going out wanting him
Speaker 2: to be the night. Yes, whereas if you'd just gone out,
Speaker 2: and even if you did put in all that f
Speaker 2: and everything, but you like that about yourself.
Speaker 1: And if you had fun.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I'm a girl. I love getting ready. I love my
Speaker 1: two hour long process of getting ready for an event.
Speaker 1: And you know, the music's playing, the vibe is good,
Speaker 1: that's fun. I enjoy that. I enjoy that, so I
Speaker 1: do it more. I do it when I want to.
Speaker 1: It's a process that I want to engage in. I
Speaker 1: also think i'd like to start a petition to bring
Speaker 1: back flirting in general. I think we've lost the art
Speaker 1: of flirting, because flirting is fun and not flirting that
Speaker 1: has to lead to anything, not you find someone attractive,
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of chemistry. You share a five
Speaker 1: minute conversation. It's flirting and it's fun and it can
Speaker 1: end there. It can end there you show up to
Speaker 1: a first date. Can I tap into that, you know,
Speaker 1: the back and forth, the banter, the fun, the chemistry
Speaker 1: with no strings attached, just for the sake of connection
Speaker 1: and fun. Yeah, I don't know how we'll start that.
Speaker 2: You're gonna figure outing bring back.
Speaker 3: For Yeah, I wonder.
Speaker 2: I feel like it's disappeared, mostly because people aren't used
Speaker 2: to speaking in person in the time that things are flatty,
Speaker 2: so most of the flatting happens over a message, and
Speaker 2: then by the time you get in front of each
Speaker 2: other you have to have a real conversation, which is
Speaker 2: kind of like a hard shift to go from flating
Speaker 2: on the phone to you know, through text, to them
Speaker 2: being interesting in person.
Speaker 1: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: So absolutely do you do you believe the spark is real?
Speaker 3: And does it matter?
Speaker 1: Absolutely? Spark is real and it matters, but it changes
Speaker 1: and it fades and it grows in other in other instances.
Speaker 1: I think you need to feel an immediate attraction to
Speaker 1: someone that you are romantically interested in. That doesn't mean
Speaker 1: you are flooded, overwhelmed, like hot and sweaty, you can't
Speaker 1: can't catch your breath. You're doesn't have to be that,
Speaker 1: but you do need to think. I'd like to be
Speaker 1: a little closer to them, my chair a little bit clearer.
Speaker 1: I have to figure out a way to talk to them,
Speaker 1: you know. But that's that's not to say that connection
Speaker 1: and intimacy and attraction can't grow over time. They absolutely do,
Speaker 1: especially for women, especially for women. But you you should
Speaker 1: find the person that you're dating attractive and there should
Speaker 1: be a spark of Yes, I want to be physically
Speaker 1: closer to them, but I also want to know more
Speaker 1: about them. There's some magic here, there's some some something
Speaker 1: something to work with. I think there has to be.
Speaker 1: But as you get to know a person, as the
Speaker 1: novelty wears off, that spark will change. And that's okay.
Speaker 1: I don't think we need to discount anyone if there
Speaker 1: isn't some immediate firework, and we should prepare for that
Speaker 1: spark to change if you plan on starting a long
Speaker 1: term relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when when can the spark mislead us? How does
Speaker 2: it mislead us?
Speaker 1: When it feels like you're on a roller coaster. When
Speaker 1: you find yourself pining for someone, there's a I like
Speaker 1: to say say, we only obsess over people who aren't
Speaker 1: fully available to us, and that spark can really be mistaken,
Speaker 1: or the obsession can be mistaken for a spark, where
Speaker 1: there's something we're projecting onto someone that is so full
Speaker 1: on it feels like an obsession, and there's this gap
Speaker 1: between who they are and who they could be, the
Speaker 1: relationship that you could have and the relationship that you
Speaker 1: actually have, and that gap in between is a reflection
Speaker 1: of who you would get to be and how you
Speaker 1: would get to feel if the fantasy became a reality,
Speaker 1: and that can feel like a spark, can feel like
Speaker 1: a deep, overwhelming obsession. Anyone who's been through this knows
Speaker 1: how all consuming it can be. But when we're projecting
Speaker 1: a fantasy onto someone, that spark can take us away
Speaker 1: into a whole other world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I fully agree. And it's so hard because when
Speaker 2: you're doing that, you don't even know you're doing it.
Speaker 1: No, typically not at first. If you experience it enough times,
Speaker 1: because it'll be a pattern, it's probably happened. If it's
Speaker 1: happened once, it'll probably happen again unless you catch it.
Speaker 1: Because you shouldn't feel like you're falling off a cliff.
Speaker 1: You shouldn't feel like a free fall of adrenaline and anxiety.
Speaker 1: You should be excited to see someone, excited to be
Speaker 1: around them, to get to know them. But it should
Speaker 1: not feel like the ground falls from underneath you when
Speaker 1: you're with them or not near them, or uncertain about
Speaker 1: what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What's the difference between chemistry and compatibility and what's more
Speaker 2: important over time?
Speaker 1: I think compatibility in terms of shared values and visions
Speaker 1: of the future people optimistic compatibility for similarity in all aspects. Right,
Speaker 1: I need to find someone who likes the same movies
Speaker 1: I like, listen to the same music, prefers to eat
Speaker 1: all the same foods that I do, who goes to
Speaker 1: sleep with the same type. You don't need an identical
Speaker 1: copy of you. In fact, that would probably drive you crazy.
Speaker 1: What I think compatibility really boils down to, in a
Speaker 1: more important sense, is how do you value your time, attention,
Speaker 1: and energy when it comes to the most important things
Speaker 1: in your life. If you are someone who values family,
Speaker 1: you want children one day, you want to be married,
Speaker 1: you want a long term partnership with love, honesty, trust,
Speaker 1: all those things. You need to find someone who values family, kids,
Speaker 1: being married, prioritizing the family above just their own innate desires. Right,
Speaker 1: Those values have to align otherwise you're headed for a disaster.
Speaker 1: Same thing with visions of the future. If you start
Speaker 1: dating someone who wants to live out of a van
Speaker 1: and travel around the country and wants to kind of
Speaker 1: have this nomadic life, and you want to live two
Speaker 1: blocks away from your parents, you know, and Iowa and forever,
Speaker 1: and that's home for you. I love that for both
Speaker 1: of you. You're probably not meant to be together. That'll
Speaker 1: be a really contentious relationship. I like to say, don't
Speaker 1: order what's not on the menu when you meet someone.
Speaker 1: If they say work is their most important priority, that's
Speaker 1: their top value. Don't get into a relationship expecting to
Speaker 1: change that about someone. It's not fair to them, it's
Speaker 1: not fair to you. That's compatibility. Chemistry, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: boils down to the magic that you feel just being
Speaker 1: around someone. Yeah, it's almost palpable. There's whether that's a
Speaker 1: quiet intimacy, like a soft intimacy, you're pulled towards each other,
Speaker 1: whether it's banter and wit have a similar sense of humor.
Speaker 1: Whether it is physical attraction, you just want to jump
Speaker 1: their bones and you can't help but kiss them and
Speaker 1: all all the things that to me is chemistry, and
Speaker 1: you want you want that, But chemistry won't build the
Speaker 1: long term relationship, the long term partnership that some people want,
Speaker 1: not everyone, some people don't.
Speaker 2: But I loved your distinction between compatibility and similarity because
Speaker 2: I think that's to me, that's the real hurdle for people,
Speaker 2: because I talk about this where me and my wife
Speaker 2: are just completely the opposite people in terms of we
Speaker 2: don't have a lot in common when it comes to
Speaker 2: likes and dislikes and things like that, but from a
Speaker 2: values and vision point of view, we respect and we
Speaker 2: don't even have directly the same values and vision, but
Speaker 2: we respect each other so much that it allows for
Speaker 2: a healthy relationship. So my purpose, my work, is my
Speaker 2: number one priority, and my wife's is her family. But
Speaker 2: I love when she spends time with her family, and
Speaker 2: she loves seeing me pursue my purpose, and therefore there
Speaker 2: isn't conflict, whereas if she said, Jay, you have to
Speaker 2: give up for your purpose to be with my family
Speaker 2: or if I said, well, you've got to give up
Speaker 2: your family to spend time with my purpose, that wouldn't
Speaker 2: work for us. And I find that to be a
Speaker 2: really common thing I hear from people where the biggest
Speaker 2: mistake you can make in a relationship is one of
Speaker 2: you wants the other person to change for them and
Speaker 2: the other person doesn't want you to change at all.
Speaker 2: And the truth is you're both going to change, but
Speaker 2: not in the ways the other person wants you to.
Speaker 2: You're just going to become who you are going to become.
Speaker 2: And it's so interesting to me that I meet so
Speaker 2: many people who almost want their partner to play a
Speaker 2: very specific role in their life, not realizing that that
Speaker 2: human is evolving, growing and shifting themselves and is unlikely
Speaker 2: to do that.
Speaker 1: There's a real opportunity to see beyond ourselves if we
Speaker 1: find that dynamic at play where I need them to
Speaker 1: show up in this way they need to be just so,
Speaker 1: that's black and white thinking, right. It's limiting to you,
Speaker 1: it's limiting to the other person, and it's limiting to
Speaker 1: the relationship. That's the and that's hard to accept because
Speaker 1: if you're outsourcing all of your needs, desires, and wants
Speaker 1: onto another person, you're going to be disappointed. And if
Speaker 1: you expect to be met in all the ways you
Speaker 1: want to be met all the time, you're going to
Speaker 1: be disappointed. There has to be a bit of accountability there,
Speaker 1: where am I not taking care of myself? Where am
Speaker 1: I not pursuing what I really want to spend my time, attention,
Speaker 1: and energy on. That's there's probably a bit of that
Speaker 1: that's lacking, because if you expect someone else to do
Speaker 1: it for you to change in all the ways you want,
Speaker 1: that's a self centered view, and you can at the
Speaker 1: very least consider how important is everything that I'm asking
Speaker 1: for right now? Could I live without this and still
Speaker 1: be okay and still be happy. Maybe it's a season.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just a season. People think love is supposed
Speaker 1: to carry them through decades and decades of relationship, just love,
Speaker 1: just the feeling that it should be peaceful and RESTful
Speaker 1: all the time. Sometimes it's work. Some seasons are work
Speaker 1: where hey, I really want this and they say I
Speaker 1: really don't, and your top value is your commitment to
Speaker 1: each other, then you're going to figure it out and
Speaker 1: that's probably going to be a stormy season. But no
Speaker 1: one really likes hearing that because it means we have
Speaker 1: to tolerate some disappointment and take some accountability, which doesn't
Speaker 1: always feel very good.
Speaker 3: Is love enough.
Speaker 1: Love the feeling or love the action? You tell me,
Speaker 1: Love the action is because love as an action is willingness,
Speaker 1: willingness to find the color, the nuance, the balance, willingness
Speaker 1: to learn to love someone how they want to be loved,
Speaker 1: willingness to show up and be loving when you feel
Speaker 1: the least loving. You know, people say I would die
Speaker 1: for my partner. I love them more than anything in
Speaker 1: this world. I would literally lay down and die for them. Okay,
Speaker 1: but would you put your phone down when they're telling
Speaker 1: you about your day? Do you take their hand when
Speaker 1: you're walking down the sidewalk with them? Do you notice
Speaker 1: when they come home from work and their mood is
Speaker 1: a little off. Do you take the time to stop
Speaker 1: and ask them about it, to remember the little things
Speaker 1: that they tell you to care. That's love, that's love
Speaker 1: as an action. That's what keeps connection. Love is a
Speaker 1: feeling will be fleeting if we don't follow it, follow
Speaker 1: it through, follow it up with action.
Speaker 3: So there is a difference between love the feeling and
Speaker 3: love the.
Speaker 1: Action, I think, so do you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I agree.
Speaker 2: No, I never thought about it like that. I think
Speaker 2: love the action requires so much more emotional intelligence and
Speaker 2: maturity than love the feeling. I think I was in
Speaker 2: love when I was sixteen.
Speaker 1: All the time, all the time, all the time.
Speaker 2: And I did not back that up with actions. I think,
Speaker 2: going back to the piece about people changing, I think
Speaker 2: people change for people because they're so scared that that
Speaker 2: person has so many options. So I'd rather change to
Speaker 2: be everything you want me to be so that you
Speaker 2: don't leave me to find someone else. But in that process,
Speaker 2: I'll become someone I don't even recognize because I didn't
Speaker 2: want to become that person at all, And now you
Speaker 2: will leave me anyway because you can tell I'm not
Speaker 2: really authentically that person. So it almost hurts twice, one
Speaker 2: in unbecoming yourself and then in losing the other person
Speaker 2: anyway because you didn't become who they needed you to be.
Speaker 2: So many people today feel like there's plenty efficient the
Speaker 2: sy there's so many options. What do you do when
Speaker 2: you meet someone you like them, but you can tell
Speaker 2: that they have some detachment because they have this idea
Speaker 2: that there's plenty efficiency, and you're trying to hold on
Speaker 2: to them. You can tell you're trying to hold on
Speaker 2: then knowing that they might ultimately let you go anyway.
Speaker 1: Do you value commitment? Do you value someone who also
Speaker 1: knows what they want? If you have if you have
Speaker 1: a clear vision of the kind of relationship you want,
Speaker 1: the way you want your relationship to feel, consistent, reliable, warm, fun,
Speaker 1: it's playful. When you understand that, becomes a lot easier
Speaker 1: to discern who's for you and who's not. Someone who's
Speaker 1: still worried about all the other fish in the sea,
Speaker 1: who's easily distracted, who that catches their eye, that catches
Speaker 1: their eye, and you feel like you have to control them.
Speaker 1: If it feels like you have to control them, it's
Speaker 1: not love. And you can't build a relationship, a fulfilling
Speaker 1: relationship from that place. So if you notice that they
Speaker 1: don't value the same things you do, they don't value
Speaker 1: commitment in the same ways, then they're probably not for you,
Speaker 1: because the last thing you want to do is chase
Speaker 1: after them, try and convince them to want the same
Speaker 1: things that you want. And please, I'll show you so
Speaker 1: how good it'll be if you'll just choose me. Then
Speaker 1: you end up losing yourself in a in the very
Speaker 1: ways that you're trying to avoid in the first place.
Speaker 3: It's always hard.
Speaker 2: I always find that we're willing to tolerate bad behavior
Speaker 2: from someone we're really into versus someone we're kind of into.
Speaker 2: And so when we say we want reliability, if the
Speaker 2: person we're really into doesn't message back, we'll be patient.
Speaker 2: But if someone were kind of into doesn't message back,
Speaker 2: We're like, oh, red flag.
Speaker 3: That was me?
Speaker 1: That was I mean, that was that was a childhood
Speaker 1: childhood wound of Am I lovable? Am I difficult to love?
Speaker 1: Who do I have to become to get someone to
Speaker 1: choose me to pay attention to me?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: So, oh, you kind of like me, you kind of
Speaker 1: are interested, you kind of pay enough attention. I'm going
Speaker 1: to get the other fifty percent of that attention from you.
Speaker 1: I'm going to earn it. I'm going to tolerate the
Speaker 1: hurt that disrespect because you're giving me a little bit
Speaker 1: of what I want and I'm going to prove it.
Speaker 1: And then I'd get into really relationships fully chosen, stable, love,
Speaker 1: very good people, and I'd test them. No, you don't
Speaker 1: hear m mmm. I'm going to show you that I
Speaker 1: can rebel against this. I'm going to show you that
Speaker 1: I'm hard to love so that then I can come
Speaker 1: back and earn it again. That is an That is
Speaker 1: a childhood wound that doesn't heal until you take accountability
Speaker 1: for it. It wasn't until I realized the pattern at
Speaker 1: play and I got sick of my own shit. I
Speaker 1: got sick of the same hurt, the same anxiety, the
Speaker 1: same cycles like I don't want this. And then I
Speaker 1: took accountability and realized that the stubility and the love
Speaker 1: that I was looking for was going to require me
Speaker 1: to make value based decisions first and foremost, and really
Speaker 1: show up and support myself and soothe myself. When I
Speaker 1: wanted to run, or when I wanted to beg or
Speaker 1: when I wanted to react, I had to learn to respond.
Speaker 1: Little tidbit about me.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask, you, did, how bad did
Speaker 2: it have to get for you to take accountability?
Speaker 1: I really lost myself, chasing the feeling of being chosen,
Speaker 1: had given up on dreams, lost all confidence, tolerated just
Speaker 1: the worst possible behavior, just was a shell of myself,
Speaker 1: really and truly and when you reach that level, when
Speaker 1: essentially rock bottom, you either have to pull yourself out
Speaker 1: or you realize how deep and dark it'll feel until
Speaker 1: you find the courage, and you don't want to live
Speaker 1: like that. I didn't want to live like that. I
Speaker 1: knew that there was an option, and I knew it
Speaker 1: was going to be hard, and I knew that it
Speaker 1: was going to take a hell of a lot of time, attention, understanding,
Speaker 1: patience for myself. But one of the best things, one
Speaker 1: of the best things I've ever done, A big piece
Speaker 1: of what actually got me into this work quite frankly,
Speaker 1: tell me about that the pattern I was just talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, choose me, see me, what can I do
Speaker 1: to earn your attention? That primarily came from my mother.
Speaker 1: And my mother died of cancer back in twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: and there was something about her death that was so
Speaker 1: devastating and yet so healing because of the way we
Speaker 1: were able to repair before she passed. So we got
Speaker 1: to have these conversations peel back so honest, so honest,
Speaker 1: and the safety and space it created, feeling seen and
Speaker 1: chosen and loved in such a way, even though it
Speaker 1: was the end. There was something about that moment, and
Speaker 1: obviously the journey of grief that came after that that
Speaker 1: changed me to my core. And this is all happening
Speaker 1: around the same time the feeling like I was at
Speaker 1: rock bottom the death of my mother. There was so
Speaker 1: much going on there where I realized that I was
Speaker 1: looking for evidence to confirm or deny the beliefs that
Speaker 1: I had learned in this mother daughter dynamic growing up,
Speaker 1: that I was hard to love, that I was difficult
Speaker 1: to love, that I needed to fight to be chosen.
Speaker 1: I was looking for evidence to confirm that everywhere, and
Speaker 1: it felt awful. It felt awful. So there was a
Speaker 1: bit of the love and support and honesty that I
Speaker 1: was able to find in these conversations with my mother,
Speaker 1: and then the work that I did after she passed
Speaker 1: to learn to show up for myself and no longer
Speaker 1: tolerate those beliefs, no longer take those beliefs as fact,
Speaker 1: And that was really where where the work was. That's
Speaker 1: where the work came from.
Speaker 2: First of all, sorry for your loss, because it sounds
Speaker 2: like a really difficult time through everything that you just mentioned.
Speaker 2: And at the same time, my question is how useful
Speaker 2: was it to repair with her and could more of
Speaker 2: us heal our relationships with our future partners by repairing
Speaker 2: our relationships with our parents in any way.
Speaker 1: If you have the option, if you have the option,
Speaker 1: it's worth a try. But you don't need to. You
Speaker 1: don't need to. And I was so blessed and so
Speaker 1: lucky to be able to number one have the time
Speaker 1: before she passed because she was sick, but for her
Speaker 1: to also have an open heart and an open mind
Speaker 1: to meet me there. I know that that's not a
Speaker 1: luxury that every everyone gets, and that's really hard if
Speaker 1: anyone can relate to that. I just want to acknowledge
Speaker 1: how there's a grief in and of that. You know
Speaker 1: that you don't have a parent that will meet you
Speaker 1: in such a way, you don't have a person of
Speaker 1: such importance that will meet you meet either, but there
Speaker 1: absolutely is a process of a similar strategy I just
Speaker 1: explained that you can do on your own, which is
Speaker 1: meeting yourself in the ways you wish that parent would
Speaker 1: meet you. What do you wish they would say? What
Speaker 1: do you wish they would validate about you? Because my
Speaker 1: guess is what you wish they would validate about you
Speaker 1: are the same things you bring into those romantic relationships.
Speaker 1: I wish you would accept me. I wish you would
Speaker 1: just love I wish you would look at me and say,
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you. I see you. There's probably
Speaker 1: a few flavors of that that show up in your
Speaker 1: conflict with your romantic partner. Right, And if you're with
Speaker 1: someone who is safe and loving and patient romantically, you're
Speaker 1: you can have some of these conversations with them, Hey,
Speaker 1: I feel this way. You know, maybe it came from
Speaker 1: mom or dad, maybe it didn't, but communicating that sharing that,
Speaker 1: that's how we grow in relationship is by bringing these beliefs. Hey,
Speaker 1: what I'm feeling? Is this what I'm hearing in this conversation.
Speaker 1: I heard you just say that you don't love me
Speaker 1: and you don't care about this relationship. And they look
Speaker 1: at you like I just told you that I that
Speaker 1: I is going to be home two hours late.
Speaker 3: What do you?
Speaker 1: I didn't? What?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: That's and that's where the understanding and the healing and
Speaker 1: the reprogramming really comes from. But it takes a hell
Speaker 1: of a lot of vulnerability that's not always comfortable, but
Speaker 1: it's always worth it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Always.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: One of my early experiences of love was I was overloved,
Speaker 2: and then I was made to feel guilty for not
Speaker 2: reciprocating back at that level. And so when I first
Speaker 2: started dating my wife, I would do exactly the same.
Speaker 2: I would over love and then guilt her for not
Speaker 2: loving me in the same amount.
Speaker 3: Back scoreboard totally. And her reaction.
Speaker 2: Was very human and eventually helpful, because my love and
Speaker 2: there were so many other things that were so worthy
Speaker 2: of love that her reaction was just she pulled away
Speaker 2: because she didn't understand. Because at one point she'd be like, well,
Speaker 2: I didn't ask for you to overlove me, and then
Speaker 2: she'd be like, but I am loving you, just not
Speaker 2: exactly perfectly in the way that you're saying it. And
Speaker 2: because I believed her, and because I believe there was
Speaker 2: truth to it, I remember the moment the penny dropped
Speaker 2: for me where I was like, oh my gosh, this
Speaker 2: is exactly me repeating a pattern no wonder, no one
Speaker 2: wants to be And I saw my sister do the same,
Speaker 2: and I just I just noticed how like that was
Speaker 2: how we were trained to love. And I remember the
Speaker 2: moment I realized that, and I could find all these
Speaker 2: other patterns in how I loved my wife in an
Speaker 2: unhealthy way. It just transformed our entire relationship because now
Speaker 2: there weren't there wasn't any of that. And it's so
Speaker 2: funny because I felt so righteous in that belief at
Speaker 2: the time that I was like, I must be right.
Speaker 2: Of course I'm right. I'm the one who's doing everything.
Speaker 1: Where did it turn Where your realization when did it?
Speaker 1: Was it something she said?
Speaker 2: Was well it was it was her pulling away And
Speaker 2: it was almost like it kind of made the scoreboard
Speaker 2: not work because in my relationship with love, if someone
Speaker 2: did that to me, I just turned up how they
Speaker 2: wanted me to turn up.
Speaker 1: But what was the thing that helped you realize that?
Speaker 1: It was a personal pattern? The accountability of oh shit,
Speaker 1: that's my stuff to us.
Speaker 2: I think it ended up because it was so long ago.
Speaker 2: Now I believe it was probably I ended up being
Speaker 2: a conversation where I think my wife said something to
Speaker 2: me like I just don't know what I could ever
Speaker 2: do to make you happy, Like I'm like, I just
Speaker 2: don't know, like even if I did this, and I
Speaker 2: did this and I did that, I don't even know
Speaker 2: if it would ever be enough. And I think when
Speaker 2: she said that to me, and I thought about it.
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, I think she's right. I don't
Speaker 2: think it would have even if she did all those
Speaker 2: things that I said I wanted yes, or thought back,
Speaker 2: it would never be enough because I'd just find something else.
Speaker 2: And when I also started to realize that when I
Speaker 2: went above and beyond for her, it was never because
Speaker 2: she asked for it or wanted it or even one
Speaker 2: of the things I went above and beyond for. So
Speaker 2: that was also self inflicted. And actually if I was
Speaker 2: more present and aware, then maybe I'd meet her with
Speaker 2: where she wants and what.
Speaker 1: She wants, almost like you almost so like you could
Speaker 1: get love.
Speaker 2: Correct, absolutely that I felt to earn it, and so
Speaker 2: you're giving a lot thinking that's how you get love,
Speaker 2: not realizing love was in the every day and the
Speaker 2: little things and the beautiful things and the you know,
Speaker 2: the things that are there. And then and then there
Speaker 2: was another conversation that we had, This was a few
Speaker 2: years later that was really illuminating. Was I said to her,
Speaker 2: I feel like I'm always planning our vacations, and I
Speaker 2: do all the planning and the detail and everything, and
Speaker 2: it's almost like I don't feel like I get the break,
Speaker 2: and she was like, I'm more than happy to plan it.
Speaker 2: But the difference is, she was like, when you plan something,
Speaker 2: I'll happily do whatever you plan, But when I planned something,
Speaker 2: you'll have one hundred things you'll find wrong with it
Speaker 2: and you'll be unhappy about it. And that really hit
Speaker 2: me because I was like, gosh, she's so right, Like
Speaker 2: that's exactly what I would do.
Speaker 3: I would I would be upset.
Speaker 2: The schedule and the timeline and everything because I have
Speaker 2: a viewpoint on how it should be done. And therefore
Speaker 2: she allows me to plan it because she knows I'll
Speaker 2: be happier that way on both accounts. But so it's
Speaker 2: so interesting how so much of it isself inflicted because
Speaker 2: I've found there the more I take responsibility for how
Speaker 2: I need to change, and the more she takes responsibility
Speaker 2: for how she needs to change, the better our relationship gets,
Speaker 2: rather than her telling me how I need to change
Speaker 2: and me telling her how she needs to change.
Speaker 1: Well on what a comment, I call it the criticism
Speaker 1: and withdrawal loop. One person says I want more, the
Speaker 1: other person says, why is nothing that I do ever enough?
Speaker 1: And that can quickly spiral your taking your story. For example, hey,
Speaker 1: I always plan these things. I would love it if
Speaker 1: if you would plan the vacations more. Yeah, she could
Speaker 1: easily say, I throughout this idea last time, and you
Speaker 1: shut me down. And I tried to throw out this
Speaker 1: idea before and you won't go for it. Nothing I
Speaker 1: ever do is not where do you want me to
Speaker 1: go with this? And it turns into this spiral, and
Speaker 1: then after that there's a withdrawal or the criticism gets louder.
Speaker 1: I told you you didn't plan this last vacation, and
Speaker 1: you know what, you haven't planned any date nights either.
Speaker 1: It all falls on me. What's really being communicated is, hey,
Speaker 1: can I share this mental load? Can I Can we
Speaker 1: share in the emotional labor here a little bit? Can
Speaker 1: you show up and can you help? Can I get
Speaker 1: some support? Can I feel your connection right? That would
Speaker 1: mean a lot to me. And I'm a little overwhelmed.
Speaker 1: I feel like I can't quite find the right words
Speaker 1: or the right thing, and it feels like you don't
Speaker 1: accept me, like you don't like nothing I do is
Speaker 1: valued same driving intention, very different ways to approach the
Speaker 1: conversation right, so our ability to understand why something is
Speaker 1: bothering us and communicate That is paramount. In addition, being
Speaker 1: able to listen in for the intention even if your
Speaker 1: partner can't explicitly communicate it is also really important. Maybe
Speaker 1: you and Roddy can give everyone a masterclass.
Speaker 2: And I think we both generally just you know, it's
Speaker 2: been I think for us they've been very healthy conversations
Speaker 2: because we both have a similar understanding of not raising
Speaker 2: voices and not getting angry. Like we both have a
Speaker 2: good set of rules that I think we said early
Speaker 2: on what we wanted conflict to look like, or disagreements
Speaker 2: to look like.
Speaker 1: Did you know to pick someone with such a temperament?
Speaker 1: Was it a parent when you first met each other,
Speaker 1: or was that something that was communicated or happened just coincidentally.
Speaker 2: I think I got lucky at the start, and then
Speaker 2: became more conscious of as we got more serious, and
Speaker 2: have become even more grateful as years have gone by,
Speaker 2: And so I think there was a bit of luck
Speaker 2: in the beginning, and then maybe you were even developing.
Speaker 1: It naturally drawn to her temperament maybe for sure?
Speaker 2: For sure, Yeah, yeah, there's definitely that there was a
Speaker 2: natural draw, but it was an unconscious experience in the beginning,
Speaker 2: then became more conscious and focused and developed. And I
Speaker 2: always it's like you, you can get a lot of things
Speaker 2: right without not without knowing, but then once you know,
Speaker 2: it's good to focus on getting them better. Yes, but
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you this question. You say one
Speaker 2: of my favorite things that you say. You said in
Speaker 2: a video that you can tell how much you love
Speaker 2: yourself by the partner that you've chosen.
Speaker 3: Tell me about that.
Speaker 1: Well. I pose it as a question because if you
Speaker 1: hear someone say in the video, I think you're referring to,
Speaker 1: how would you feel if someone said that they can
Speaker 1: tell how much you love yourself by the partner that
Speaker 1: you've chosen. Does that feel like a compliment or an insult?
Speaker 1: And what that really distills down to. I'm not passing
Speaker 1: a judgment on your relationship, but the way you feel
Speaker 1: about that question can offer a lot of insight. Have
Speaker 1: you tolerated treatment that really really doesn't feel great, It
Speaker 1: doesn't really feel loving. It's not what someone would put
Speaker 1: up with if they loved themselves, or Man, I've chosen
Speaker 1: a really patient, loving, incredible person. You know, some part
Speaker 1: of me must like myself enough to choose someone who
Speaker 1: loves me in such a way. It's really really most
Speaker 1: mostly about reflection. What is it that we're choosing? And
Speaker 1: am i? Am I making decisions building relationships, investing in
Speaker 1: relationships that reflect love, love for myself and back to
Speaker 1: the values. Do you know am I making decision based
Speaker 1: on my values? Or am I stagnant? Am I complacent?
Speaker 1: Am I participating in this negative dynamic as well? It's
Speaker 1: really about reflection and seeing what comes up for people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a great reflection, such a great question, and
Speaker 2: it's a great way if you're dating right now to
Speaker 2: really make the right shifts and changes.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And if.
Speaker 2: You're married and you feel like you may the wrong decision,
Speaker 2: what would you do if someone's listening to that and
Speaker 2: they're going, like, I'm listening to you right now, Qan
Speaker 2: that that feels tough because my partner is not present.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I know they love me, but you know, I'm not
Speaker 2: sure we I think we lost it somewhere along the way.
Speaker 2: What would you say to them?
Speaker 1: I love that distinction too. I say dating is dating
Speaker 1: is about discernment. Marriage is about devotion, not the other
Speaker 1: way around. Say that again, dating is about discernment, not devotion.
Speaker 1: Devotion is to be saved for marriage or long term relationships,
Speaker 1: long term partnerships. That's important as you're making decisions. But
Speaker 1: what I would say to someone who's realizing that maybe
Speaker 1: their relationship dynamic is not as loving as they would
Speaker 1: want it to be. First things first, take a look
Speaker 1: at your side of the street. That does doesn't mean,
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it's your fault. This is not a
Speaker 1: blame game. But if you envision the kind of relationship
Speaker 1: you want this with your husband, with your wife, with
Speaker 1: your partner, what does it consist of? And how can
Speaker 1: you add more of that? Now? How can you be
Speaker 1: the first to add to try? How can you show
Speaker 1: up as the partner you want to be? Where's the
Speaker 1: appreciation for the ways that they are making effort. It's
Speaker 1: really easy to get sucked into a disappointment spiral, like
Speaker 1: you go down the rabbit hole and all you can
Speaker 1: see are the things that they aren't doing, the things
Speaker 1: are doing wrong, the ways that they aren't showing up.
Speaker 1: Pull yourself out of that. If you want your relationship
Speaker 1: to work, you have to pull yourself out of that.
Speaker 1: Even if you choose to leave, don't choose to leave
Speaker 1: in the bottom of the disappointment spiral. Anyway, clean up
Speaker 1: your side of the street, and go first. That's what
Speaker 1: I would say. The follow up to that is have
Speaker 1: a conversation with your spouse. Hey, I want more of
Speaker 1: this because I love you. I feel really distant, I
Speaker 1: feel really lonely. We both have a lot going on.
Speaker 1: Can we come up with a plan to reconnect. What
Speaker 1: do you want more of? Here's what I want more of.
Speaker 1: Can we get on board? It doesn't have to be
Speaker 1: so hum drum you negative? Oh, we have to fix this.
Speaker 1: It can be an exciting thing if you want it
Speaker 1: to be. And if you come with the right energy,
Speaker 1: and if it is the right person, then they'll at
Speaker 1: least try to meet you.
Speaker 3: Ei there. Yeah.
Speaker 2: What's the difference between keeping someone accountable and trying to
Speaker 2: change them?
Speaker 1: I don't think you can keep people accountable. I don't
Speaker 1: really believe that it's possible.
Speaker 3: We'll hold someone accountable.
Speaker 1: If you're with someone who's really lacking consistency, they're not
Speaker 1: really following through on their word, and you're thinking, I
Speaker 1: need a little bit more here. They are not taking initiative.
Speaker 1: I can't trust them to do what they say that
Speaker 1: they're going to do, you can bring that up. This
Speaker 1: is what I'm noticing. I'm finding it hard to rely
Speaker 1: on you because you haven't done the things that you
Speaker 1: said that you're going to do. I mean, can we
Speaker 1: talk about this And if they say I want to
Speaker 1: be a more consistent, reliable person, thank you for bringing
Speaker 1: that to my attention. Great. Now they want to make
Speaker 1: that change, You've brought it to light. It is on
Speaker 1: them to make the change. You can lovingly hey, again,
Speaker 1: this thing didn't get done, but it's the buck stops there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can't be breathing down their neck. You definitely don't
Speaker 1: want to meet them with criticism or constant disappointment. People
Speaker 1: don't actually change from that place. So if they want
Speaker 1: to make the change themselves, great, beautiful, the onus is
Speaker 1: on them. You can be loving and supportive in the process.
Speaker 1: But I don't believe that we can really hold people
Speaker 1: accountable and we definitely can't force them to change.
Speaker 2: I fully agree, And I think the hardest part of
Speaker 2: it is you know how hard it is to change yourself.
Speaker 2: So even when someone says they want to change, you've
Speaker 2: got to realize how hard that is, right, You may
Speaker 2: have your partner say to you, yeah, I really do
Speaker 2: want to work out and get in the gym more,
Speaker 2: and then they're never in the gym. They're always watching sport,
Speaker 2: they're hanging out whatever it is.
Speaker 3: You know how hard that is to do.
Speaker 2: And so it's such an interesting dynamic because we almost
Speaker 2: think change should be really easy for other people, knowing
Speaker 2: that it's really hard for ourselves, and then when they
Speaker 2: don't change, we're upset or disappointed in them. And if
Speaker 2: you just thought for a second about how hard it
Speaker 2: is to change yourself and build good habits yourself, I
Speaker 2: think you'd have more empathy and compassion for someone else.
Speaker 3: That's that's how I see it. At least.
Speaker 1: We tend to judge ourselves by our intentions, and we
Speaker 1: tend to judge others by their actions or their follow
Speaker 1: through or the result of their thing. Right, So I
Speaker 1: meant to go to the gym five days this week.
Speaker 1: I really only made it once, but I intended to.
Speaker 1: You know, I had a lot going on. My intentions
Speaker 1: were good, I tried. They don't go to the gym
Speaker 1: five times a week, they only go once, and suddenly
Speaker 1: it's a reflection of their character. Right, they're unreliable, they
Speaker 1: lack discipline, they aren't motivated. That let's hold on here,
Speaker 1: let's let's find the color amongst all this black and
Speaker 1: white thinking. I totally agree.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's the toughest one. I see.
Speaker 3: It's I always just feel like.
Speaker 2: And that's why I love that you said start on
Speaker 2: your side of the street, because I think a lot
Speaker 2: of relationship language and podcasting and conversations right now are
Speaker 2: all about how do you spot if someone's good? And
Speaker 2: I'm just like, oh, it's a dangerous game to play
Speaker 2: because in that scenario, you're always the detective and the
Speaker 2: secret agent, and the other person's always the villain in
Speaker 2: some way. And while that can be true in certain
Speaker 2: cases where there's extremes, the reality is most of us
Speaker 2: are all flawed and making mistakes at the same time.
Speaker 1: And if you want a peaceful, emotionally intelligent person right
Speaker 1: with all of these traits that are wonderful, I love
Speaker 1: that for you, you have to be the other half
Speaker 1: of that relationship, right. You also want to be patient
Speaker 1: and calm, slow to conflict, kind with your words, even
Speaker 1: when you're frustrated. You can handle some disappointment and you
Speaker 1: want to be the other half of that loving relationship.
Speaker 1: It's not going to come from focusing on all the
Speaker 1: red flags you need to look out for and all
Speaker 1: the things that the specific ways they need to show
Speaker 1: up to prove to you that they are who they
Speaker 1: say that they are. Focused on your side of the street,
Speaker 1: focus on being the other half of this relationship that
Speaker 1: you want so badly, rather than trying to figure out
Speaker 1: the quick fixes to avoid all of the bad fish
Speaker 1: in the sea. It's a waste of time.
Speaker 3: In my opinion.
Speaker 2: You said in one of your videos, the only people
Speaker 2: who are upset with your boundaries are the very same
Speaker 2: people who directly benefit from you not having any.
Speaker 3: I love that. Can you explain.
Speaker 1: Who loves you wants you to have boundaries. Someone who
Speaker 1: loves you wants there to be limits on what you
Speaker 1: will and won't tolerate. What you have capacity for don't
Speaker 1: have capacity for that is necessary. Someone who loves you,
Speaker 1: and better yet, someone you want in your life. We
Speaker 1: can argue all day, do they love me or do
Speaker 1: they not? If they're disrespecting your boundaries, you probably don't
Speaker 1: want them to have much access to you. Energetically, emotionally.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, boundaries aren't designed to
Speaker 1: keep people out. They aren't designed to hurt anyone's feelings.
Speaker 1: They're designed to maintain your finite amount of energy and attention. Right,
Speaker 1: I can't say yes to everything it doesn't have I
Speaker 1: can't say yes to everything and still show up in
Speaker 1: the ways that I want to show up. You keep
Speaker 1: the character and integrity that I really like about myself.
Speaker 1: There's no way to do that. Someone who loves me
Speaker 1: is going to encourage that and respect that. And the
Speaker 1: people who benefit from you not having the people who
Speaker 1: want to take more from you, who want more and
Speaker 1: more and more, who are more self centered, they won't care.
Speaker 1: They won't care if it's good for you or bad
Speaker 1: for you or not. They're more focused on themselves. And
Speaker 1: that's disrespectful, that's not loving, and that's not someone who
Speaker 1: should have an infinite amount of access to you.
Speaker 2: How do you set an effective boundary? Because I think
Speaker 2: we've got used to the language, but we don't really
Speaker 2: know how to do it. We think that a boundary
Speaker 2: protects you from other people, but really a boundary is
Speaker 2: something that protects you from yourself and your natural triggers
Speaker 2: or ways of behavior. So how do we set a
Speaker 2: behavior that protects us rather than trying to keep other
Speaker 2: people out.
Speaker 1: A boundary is I will or won't blank if blank?
Speaker 1: I will or won't blank if blank. So that means
Speaker 1: it is all within your control. I won't participate in
Speaker 1: this conversation. If you yell at me again, I won't. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to walk away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're not saying that to them. You need
Speaker 3: to know that as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, either or right. I don't want to participate
Speaker 1: in a relationship with someone who lies to me. I won't,
Speaker 1: I will not. You need to know that for yourself. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: you could share these things with other people, right back
Speaker 1: to the conversation with difficult parents or contentious relationships with
Speaker 1: your parents. You know, I really value our relationship, but
Speaker 1: I won't stay if you keep talking to me that way,
Speaker 1: if you keep bringing up that issue, I'm gonna walk away.
Speaker 1: I will blank if blank is a boundary, not you
Speaker 1: can't blank blank blank not. You better not. It's not
Speaker 1: a threat. It's a rule for yourself, and your boundaries
Speaker 1: are for you to respect.
Speaker 3: And that's the hardest part. Right.
Speaker 2: I feel like we compromise our own boundaries. So we
Speaker 2: say things like I won't participate in this conversation if
Speaker 2: you lie to me, but then we continue to participate
Speaker 2: because it's not really a boundary. It's hoping they won't
Speaker 2: lie to you. Right, We're saying it hoping you'll stop
Speaker 2: lying if I threaten you. Yes, but you just said it's.
Speaker 3: Not a threat.
Speaker 2: It's a boundary if we recognize I have to leave now,
Speaker 2: so if you're lying, I now have to walk away,
Speaker 2: But we don't want to do that because we're hoping
Speaker 2: they change yes. So it's like a secret, hidden hope
Speaker 2: as opposed to a boundary.
Speaker 1: The manipulation that you just kind of described, like I'm
Speaker 1: going to say that I won't tolerate it, but then
Speaker 1: if you actually do it, then I will say because
Speaker 1: what I'm really trying to get is you to show
Speaker 1: up for me and trying to get you to love me,
Speaker 1: So I'm going to mix in this threat'. That's a
Speaker 1: hell of a lot of manipulation rather than having your
Speaker 1: own back, like really respecting yourself enough to say I
Speaker 1: will not tolerate this. Myself respect is not worth the
Speaker 1: emotional turmoil that comes from allowing this kind of behavior.
Speaker 1: That's really hard. That's really hard. You have to choose
Speaker 1: your self respect over your desire to be chosen or
Speaker 1: your desire to not be alone. That's that's paramount. Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Is there such a thing as the one or a soulmate?
Speaker 1: The one is the one that you choose. The one
Speaker 1: is the person whose natural essence compliments yours in a
Speaker 1: way that makes love and growth a little bit easier,
Speaker 1: a little bit, right, it's a little bit. Sometimes it's
Speaker 1: still hard, but ideally you choose well. You use discernment
Speaker 1: in the beginning. You admire someone's integrity, you really suspect them,
Speaker 1: you really cherish them, you like them, which is often
Speaker 1: an overlooked one. You know, it's he's he's this tall
Speaker 1: and it makes this much money, so he'll be the one. Well, okay,
Speaker 1: but do you.
Speaker 3: Like the guys here?
Speaker 1: That's really important. And then you build the relationship from there,
Speaker 1: respecting the other person, respecting yourself, and again creating this
Speaker 1: third entity. One thing I also think is overlooked when
Speaker 1: it comes to choosing the one and being the one.
Speaker 1: This is this is this works for both sides. You
Speaker 1: need to be your partner, your person's biggest fan. I
Speaker 1: mean that with my whole heart. You need to be
Speaker 1: your partner's biggest fan. And if you can't, then you
Speaker 1: either need to check in on your insecurities. You either
Speaker 1: need to pay attention, or you've chosen the wrong person.
Speaker 1: If you don't want their dreams to come to true,
Speaker 1: if you don't want them to succeed, if you don't
Speaker 1: want them to be their happiest best self, do not
Speaker 1: promise to spend a lifetime with them. I really really
Speaker 1: think that that's important and not talked about enough. I
Speaker 1: don't hear that very much. We talk about the conflict stuff, right,
Speaker 1: we talk about how to handle boundaries and how to
Speaker 1: do all of that. But you want someone in your corner.
Speaker 1: You want someone in your corner on your worst days,
Speaker 1: on your best days, and you want to feel like
Speaker 1: you're on the same team. And I deeply believe you
Speaker 1: need to be your your person's biggest fan and that
Speaker 1: contributes to them being the one and building the right relationship.
Speaker 2: When you were saying that, it was reminding me of
Speaker 2: wedding vows, and I was thinking about how we spend
Speaker 2: so long planning a wedding and not building a marriage
Speaker 2: and just the discrepancy between the two, even how long
Speaker 2: you'll take to write your vowels, but then to live
Speaker 2: up to those vowels takes a whole different set of skills,
Speaker 2: and we don't really put that much effort into building
Speaker 2: those skills and working on those parts those maintaining those skills.
Speaker 2: How do you know if you're in love with someone
Speaker 2: or just the idea of them?
Speaker 1: How do you know if you're in love with someone
Speaker 1: or just the idea of them? Is there a difference
Speaker 1: between how you wish they would be and how they
Speaker 1: actually are?
Speaker 3: How?
Speaker 1: Why does that gap? How much of the relationship do
Speaker 1: you actually enjoy versus how much time are you spending
Speaker 1: trying to change them, trying to change the dynamic. I
Speaker 1: like to say, if you allow your person to be
Speaker 1: exactly who they want to be, without molding them, without
Speaker 1: controlling them, without micromanaging them, but you allow them to
Speaker 1: show up just as they are, does that help you
Speaker 1: feel more or less like the person you want to be?
Speaker 1: Does that feel more or less like the kind of
Speaker 1: relationship you want to be in. It doesn't mean it's perfect,
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's all the time, But if you it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they won't change, doesn't mean you can't change.
Speaker 1: But if you really allow them to be, if you
Speaker 1: accept them for exactly who they are, does that help
Speaker 1: or hinder what you want love to feel like? That's
Speaker 1: one question asked.
Speaker 2: It's a great question. I love that question. It's such
Speaker 2: an important question because that is who you're with ninety
Speaker 2: percent of the time, and that is what you'll experience.
Speaker 2: And Yeah, if you're in love with the idea of them,
Speaker 2: then you're absolutely right. You answer to that question will
Speaker 2: be oh, because I want them to be a bit
Speaker 2: more this, a bit more that, a bit more this.
Speaker 1: And do you need a bit more? Is that bit
Speaker 1: more that you're missing really really important to you? If
Speaker 1: it is, by all means, do what you gotta do.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of times we fool ourselves
Speaker 1: into thinking that the little bits that we're missing are
Speaker 1: make or breaks, and we forget that loving someone is
Speaker 1: such an honor. And this is more so geared towards
Speaker 1: long term relationships marriages of sorts, but it's a real
Speaker 1: honor to be able to love someone through several seasons
Speaker 1: of their life, to be able to be their support system,
Speaker 1: to be the smiling face that picks them up on
Speaker 1: a day when they feel shitty to be there, when
Speaker 1: they lose someone that they love, or they lose an opportunity,
Speaker 1: or they hit their highest high to sit with them
Speaker 1: on a Sunday night on the couch every Sunday for
Speaker 1: years and years in aw. I mean, it's an honor
Speaker 1: to love someone and to be there. And sometimes I
Speaker 1: just think we need to reframe the way that we
Speaker 1: view the person we're with as a whole human all
Speaker 1: on their own, that we get the honor to love,
Speaker 1: and that tends, that tends to clear out a lot
Speaker 1: of the little bits that we aren't getting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 1: You look at that person and you think, my god,
Speaker 1: I really do love them. Look at the way that
Speaker 1: they do the dishes or tie their shoes. I love
Speaker 1: the way that they drive, the way they dance to
Speaker 1: museic I love. I love to watch them get ready
Speaker 1: and put you know, do their morning routine whatever. Like,
Speaker 1: you just look at that human and remember that it's
Speaker 1: an honora to love them, and maybe that'll clear out
Speaker 1: some of the bits that you're missing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you wish people lost themselves before they
Speaker 2: got married?
Speaker 1: Do I want to be a partner or do I
Speaker 1: want a spouse? And the difference there is when you
Speaker 1: want to be a partner, when you want to be
Speaker 1: someone's support system, when you want to be the co
Speaker 1: creator of the marriage that you're about to step into
Speaker 1: the life that you're going to build. There's accountability and
Speaker 1: responsibility in that, and it really allows you to focus
Speaker 1: on what you can control, which is how you show up. Now,
Speaker 1: assuming you're walking walking to that altar and you know
Speaker 1: this person pretty damn well, and you've spent a good
Speaker 1: long time seeing who they are, understanding their heart, really
Speaker 1: caring for them, all of that, you're gonna have to
Speaker 1: remember that sometimes the best you can do is show
Speaker 1: up as the partner you want to be that you
Speaker 1: want to be, even if your seasons are are misaligned.
Speaker 1: Matthew Kaey has this great bit in a podcast that
Speaker 1: he did or He says, sometimes you're walking and they're running,
Speaker 1: and sometimes you're running and they're walking, and you just
Speaker 1: have to make sure that one doesn't get too far
Speaker 1: ahead of the other. And I love that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I love that too.
Speaker 1: I think that's well said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And I think it's about how you communicate
Speaker 2: when you are that. I've always thought about it as
Speaker 2: sometimes me and my wife are driving to the same event,
Speaker 2: but we're driving separately. She's going to get there early
Speaker 2: and I'm going to be late, and so I'm on
Speaker 2: the phone. I'm like, hey, I'm going to be late,
Speaker 2: and she's like, well, I'm going to be early. And
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, Well, do you want to wait for
Speaker 2: me because you want to go in together or do
Speaker 2: you want to go in without me and I'll follow
Speaker 2: you in there, And she's like, no, I want to
Speaker 2: wait for you to go in there together. And it's
Speaker 2: like you're both driving separately, but you're talking to each
Speaker 2: other the whole time about where you're at, and that's
Speaker 2: that conversation that calms you both down, rather than you
Speaker 2: have no idea what time that person's getting there. One
Speaker 2: of the challenges I find is that everyone wants a
Speaker 2: lot of what I hear is people want their partner
Speaker 2: to talk to them more emotionally and tell them more.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of people who don't want to
Speaker 2: do that, or don't know how to do that, or
Speaker 2: don't feel the need for it. And the person who
Speaker 2: wants to talk, kind of gets a bit annoyed and
Speaker 2: frustrated and upset that their partner won't talk. What's your
Speaker 2: advice in that scenario?
Speaker 1: What's the loving thing to do? You know? And that
Speaker 1: probably requires both sides of the aisle to adjust a
Speaker 1: little bit. You're not going to get perfect words all
Speaker 1: the time. It's not going to happen, and you're going
Speaker 1: to have to give imperfect words a lot of the time.
Speaker 1: You're going to have to try. My aunt and uncle
Speaker 1: are in their mid seventies early seventies. They've been married
Speaker 1: for twenty five thirty or something like that, and we
Speaker 1: were just having a conversation the other night. I was
Speaker 1: asking my uncle John, I said, what is your secret
Speaker 1: to the what's the magic? How has this happened? They're
Speaker 1: probably the happiest couple I know. Incredible And he said,
Speaker 1: she tells me what she wants to hear, and I
Speaker 1: repeat it back to her and he meant Jay, He
Speaker 1: meant it with his full chest. I've seen them do it.
Speaker 1: My aunt Beth will say, I need you to tell
Speaker 1: me that this is going to be okay. You hear me.
Speaker 1: You've got my back, and you've got it covered, and
Speaker 1: he will recite it right back to her word for word,
Speaker 1: and they say, Okay, I love you and leave it there,
Speaker 1: and some to and some people will think, but if
Speaker 1: I have to say it, if I have to tell
Speaker 1: them what to say, it doesn't matter. It erodes the
Speaker 1: value and this, that and the other. If your person
Speaker 1: is asking to be loved in a specific way, put
Speaker 1: your stuff aside and show up so the best of
Speaker 1: your ability. It will not be perfect all the time,
Speaker 1: it's sure as hell won't. But do the loving thing,
Speaker 1: and that is typically to show up in the ways
Speaker 1: that your partner is explicitly asking you to. If you
Speaker 1: want bonus points, anticipate some of those needs right, pay
Speaker 1: attention and try to do it without having to be asked,
Speaker 1: But don't knock the direct communication. And then choose the
Speaker 1: loving thing to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, How do you start to trust yourself again
Speaker 2: when someone breaks up with you that you thought you
Speaker 2: were going to be with for a long time.
Speaker 1: Well, step one. Grieve. You know, there's an acute phase
Speaker 1: of heartbreak where you don't have to do anything right
Speaker 1: or well, you can just be That's step number one,
Speaker 1: especially if it's a breakup after a long long relationship.
Speaker 1: The next step is reflection. You know, right now, the
Speaker 1: story might be they left me, they didn't love me,
Speaker 1: all those years were wasted. How could I have done that?
Speaker 1: I should have known, right, I must be disposable. It's
Speaker 1: a lot that's harsh. There's more color in that story.
Speaker 1: So what were some of the red flags or some
Speaker 1: of the even just the disconnection, the things that weren't working.
Speaker 1: Takes some accountability in that, you know, I didn't communicate
Speaker 1: as well as I really wish that I would have,
Speaker 1: Or you know what, I stayed way too long because
Speaker 1: I tried to communicate and that person wasn't meeting me.
Speaker 1: That was really difficult. Take some accountability around how you
Speaker 1: may have contributed what you want in your relationship moving forward,
Speaker 1: and more so focusing on who you want to be
Speaker 1: now that that chapter has closed, Because I can tell
Speaker 1: you one thing, the person who was for you is
Speaker 1: the person who wants to be with you. If they
Speaker 1: aren't willing to try, they're definitely not your person. And
Speaker 1: I think that most things, most relationships can be worked
Speaker 1: out if two people are willing if you want it to,
Speaker 1: barring some extreme cases, but if they're not willing, they're
Speaker 1: not your person now. When it comes to moving on specifically,
Speaker 1: I always say stop trying, because we think that if
Speaker 1: if I just do all of these steps, I have
Speaker 1: to do this in the morning and this at night,
Speaker 1: and this is my evening routine, and then I'll wake
Speaker 1: up someday and I'll be moved on, as if it's
Speaker 1: a destination. As I imagine yourself tomorrow morning, you wake
Speaker 1: up and you get what you wanted. You want to
Speaker 1: move on. You want to trust yourself again. If you
Speaker 1: knew for certain that you would wake up tomorrow and
Speaker 1: that was your reality, what would you do with yourself?
Speaker 3: Oh, that's such a good question.
Speaker 1: What would you think about, how would you spend your time,
Speaker 1: what would you invest your energy into, Who would you
Speaker 1: spend your time with, What would you think about, what
Speaker 1: would you talk about? And then just start to do
Speaker 1: some of those things. Bring the grief with you. It's
Speaker 1: probably not going to happen as fast as you want
Speaker 1: it to. But you want a direction. You want a
Speaker 1: clearer vision of where you're going so that you can
Speaker 1: head in that direction.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2: That's such a good answer, because, yeah, all the little
Speaker 2: tips and tricks to try and move on quick. It
Speaker 2: doesn't process like that. And I love the idea of
Speaker 2: what would your life look like if you'd already moved on,
Speaker 2: because that's what you're waiting for. You're waiting for that anyway,
Speaker 2: You're waiting for the day you've moved on and you
Speaker 2: can say I'm over it and I'm ready for whatever.
Speaker 3: What is it? What does that look like? And start
Speaker 3: mirroring that today. That's brilliant.
Speaker 1: You want the thing, right, I just want to move on?
Speaker 1: What does that even mean to you? It's like, let's
Speaker 1: define it. That gives you something to move towards. Yes,
Speaker 1: which is so important. And moving on doesn't even necessarily
Speaker 1: mean that you don't care. You might still care, Yes,
Speaker 1: you might care about that person for the rest of
Speaker 1: your life.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: But you want to build whatever your next chapter is
Speaker 1: to be as enjoyable and intentional as possible. Yes, And
Speaker 1: that gives you somewhere to go.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: And mostly I was coaching someone earlier this year and
Speaker 2: they were going through a breakup. And the first month
Speaker 2: they broke up, they talked about it every day. The
Speaker 2: second month after they broke up, they talked about every
Speaker 2: other day. The third month they talked about it every
Speaker 2: three days. The fourth month, they talked about it once
Speaker 2: a week, and the fifth month they thought about it
Speaker 2: once a month. And I had to remind them of that,
Speaker 2: because to them, every reminder was as sharp as remembering
Speaker 2: it every day. And I like people to think about
Speaker 2: it like that. You're not trying to get to a
Speaker 2: point where tomorrow you don't think.
Speaker 3: About it at all.
Speaker 2: You're just thinking about it less because your life looks
Speaker 2: like how you want it to be and what it
Speaker 2: would be like if you were free. And I've always
Speaker 2: thought about that mindset, even when I've had Even when
Speaker 2: you think about physical pain, if you want to wake
Speaker 2: up tomorrow and you've had surgery or you're hurt or
Speaker 2: whatever and you want to be completely healed, it would
Speaker 2: never happen. You'll only ever be one percent better if
Speaker 2: you did all the right things. And as soon as
Speaker 2: you accept that, all I need to do is be
Speaker 2: one percent better today, all of a sudden you see
Speaker 2: that progress. But when you're looking to be one hundred
Speaker 2: percent better and you aren't, now you feel ninety nine
Speaker 2: percent behind, and it just becomes so amplified. And that's
Speaker 2: what it feels like to be wanting to heal from
Speaker 2: a breakup, and you're constantly feeling on why haven't I
Speaker 2: healed yet?
Speaker 3: That's that ninety percent.
Speaker 1: And oftentimes there are beliefs, almost almost identities that we
Speaker 1: find ourselves trying to finding ourselves wrestling with when a
Speaker 1: breakup happens. No one will choose me. I'm never good enough,
Speaker 1: Nothing that I do is good enough. No one will stay.
Speaker 1: It was all my fault or it was all their fault.
Speaker 1: How could they? And we find these these absolutes that
Speaker 1: are really really difficult to do anything productive with. Truly,
Speaker 1: I mean, it doesn't it doesn't make you feel better emotionally.
Speaker 1: You can't really move yourself forward from there. And that's
Speaker 1: what I say about. Just be be malleable with the
Speaker 1: story for a while, for the first month, for the
Speaker 1: first one, at a maybe at a question mark to
Speaker 1: the end of that, like I'm difficult to love question mark.
Speaker 3: Just just just.
Speaker 1: Don't wrestle with the absolutes. Give yourself time and space
Speaker 1: to consider another narrative, because I promise you there's color,
Speaker 1: there's nuance in that they didn't leave. Because you're hard
Speaker 1: to love someone choosing not to love you is not
Speaker 1: a reflection of how lovable or unlovable you are, so
Speaker 1: you know that, don't wrestle with the absolute. Give yourself
Speaker 1: time and space would be another piece of advice.
Speaker 3: I like the question mark that's good. Yeah, it's true,
Speaker 3: it's true, it's totally true. It's totally true. I love
Speaker 3: that Q. Have you ever had your heartbroken.
Speaker 1: Many times in many different ways? Yeah, and it's a
Speaker 1: I have an interesting relationship with grief now, and in
Speaker 1: part of course, my mom is a big part of that.
Speaker 1: But losing relationships and growing through heartbreak has always been
Speaker 1: a catalyst for me. And I don't say that as
Speaker 1: like I'm so high and mighty and this is so impressive. No,
Speaker 1: it's usually quite ugly, and it's usually quite messy to
Speaker 1: really look at yourself and put the pieces back together
Speaker 1: and try to move on. But I've always come out
Speaker 1: the other side liking myself more, accepting uglier parts of
Speaker 1: myself that I don't think I accepted previously.
Speaker 2: Did.
Speaker 1: You got to take a real look at why you
Speaker 1: did what you did, how you showed up the people
Speaker 1: that you chose, and sometimes that means accepting like, man,
Speaker 1: I've been I haven't been making the best choices and
Speaker 1: you have to love that, you have to accept that,
Speaker 1: and it expands your capacity in a way that allows
Speaker 1: for the emotional flexibility we were talking about earlier, where
Speaker 1: the deepest heartbreak losing my mom, losing people that I
Speaker 1: thought I would spend the rest of my life with.
Speaker 1: Losing that makes everything else a little bit easier to process.
Speaker 1: If I can survive that, survive a lot, a lot,
Speaker 1: and I've been there through all of that. I've picked
Speaker 1: myself back up. I've built a support system of people
Speaker 1: who remind me of that when when I forget rights.
Speaker 1: But I really learned to like myself. I really learned
Speaker 1: to trust myself, and I really learned that there can
Speaker 1: be beauty in the mess if you stay put and
Speaker 1: go through it long enough to find the bigger story,
Speaker 1: the bigger meaning, the bigger narrative.
Speaker 3: Que.
Speaker 2: We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five.
Speaker 2: These five questions have to be answered in one word
Speaker 2: to one sentence maximum and so Q these are your
Speaker 2: final five. The first question is what is the best
Speaker 2: love advice you've ever heard or received?
Speaker 1: Do the loving thing, Comma and choose appreciation.
Speaker 3: You can do that. That was that was very well done.
Speaker 2: Second question what is the worst love advice you've ever
Speaker 2: heard or received?
Speaker 1: Match their energy? Two wrongs don't make it right. That's
Speaker 1: the reality. You don't matching someone's energy means you're handing
Speaker 1: over your power. Your power is in how you respond.
Speaker 1: Your power is in your intention. Are you going to
Speaker 1: add more negativity to a situation you don't already you
Speaker 1: already don't like, Maybe you can choose how you want
Speaker 1: to respond rather than matching someone's energy, And even more so,
Speaker 1: maybe your love, your decision to meet them in a
Speaker 1: way that they can't seem to meet themselves in that moment,
Speaker 1: is exactly what they need.
Speaker 2: Love that I always say to people, you don't you
Speaker 2: don't mess up your living room just because someone messes
Speaker 2: coming over.
Speaker 3: Yes, guy, just don't do that.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to match that energy because then I'm
Speaker 2: going to start walking over my rugs with my dirt issues. Right, Like,
Speaker 2: why would I do that just because someone's coming over.
Speaker 2: It's like, No, they're messy person.
Speaker 3: That's fine.
Speaker 2: That's their mind and their space, and I'm not going
Speaker 2: to messy up my mind because we're interacting.
Speaker 1: It's a very inauthentic way to move through the world.
Speaker 1: To build relationships absolutely.
Speaker 2: Question number three, what did you used to believe to
Speaker 2: be true about love and romance that you don't anymore?
Speaker 1: I used to believe that love, the feeling was enough.
Speaker 1: It's fantastical, it's alluring, right that someone will show up
Speaker 1: and your whole life will be better everything. You'll be
Speaker 1: whisked away by their love and live happily ever after.
Speaker 1: That's not a story that you really want. You know,
Speaker 1: you want to build a relationship intentionally. You want to
Speaker 1: choose to give love and to build love and to
Speaker 1: build this relationship. And sometimes it takes those those shitty moments,
Speaker 1: those really tough moments, to remind you how much you
Speaker 1: value the really good moments. And I think if love
Speaker 1: was just a feeling, we would miss a lot of that.
Speaker 1: Love is consideration, the action, the willingness to continue showing
Speaker 1: up and creating more of it.
Speaker 3: Love.
Speaker 2: That question of before, what's something that you used to
Speaker 2: value that you don't value anymore?
Speaker 1: Being understood. People can really only meet you as deeply
Speaker 1: as they've met themselves, which means that some people simply
Speaker 1: won't have the ability to understand you. And that's okay.
Speaker 1: You don't need to fight to be heard, to be seen,
Speaker 1: to be approved of. Sometimes it's just okay to say
Speaker 1: we don't agree. I don't think you to understand, and let.
Speaker 2: It be Love that oka fIF question. We asked this
Speaker 2: to every guest who's ever been on the show. If
Speaker 2: you could create one law that everyone in the world
Speaker 2: had to follow, what would it be.
Speaker 1: To live within your integrity, to decide for each person individually?
Speaker 1: Like what is right to you? What kind of person
Speaker 1: do you want to be? What is true for you
Speaker 1: your truths? What kind of person do you strive to
Speaker 1: be so much so that it feels in your bones,
Speaker 1: in your heart just right. I wish it was a
Speaker 1: law that everyone had to figure out what that meant
Speaker 1: to them, and then they had to act on it consistently,
Speaker 1: because I really believe that most, if not all, of
Speaker 1: us would choose to be good people, would choose to
Speaker 1: make value based decisions, kind decisions, loving decisions, not fear based, hurtful,
Speaker 1: destructive decisions. I really believe that if we were all
Speaker 1: living within integrity, if we had the courage to understand
Speaker 1: that for ourselves, that we would do a lot of good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that that would be lot you. Thank
Speaker 3: you so much.
Speaker 2: Everyone has been listening and watching, whether you're walking your dog,
Speaker 2: whether you're driving to or from work, whether you're cooking.
Speaker 2: I'm so grateful that you joined us. Please make sure
Speaker 2: that you follow Quinlan Welfare on social media across platforms.
Speaker 2: And I want to know what resonated with you. I
Speaker 2: want to know what connected with you, So tag us
Speaker 2: both take the clips, post them, let us know what resonated,
Speaker 2: what really got through to you. Share this with a
Speaker 2: friend who may be going through a breakup issue, maybe
Speaker 2: moving in with someone, maybe a friend's getting married soon.
Speaker 2: This could be one of those episodes that I think
Speaker 2: you can listen to, your friends and family can listen
Speaker 2: to and connect with no matter where they are on
Speaker 2: their love and romance journey. And again, Cuth, thank you
Speaker 2: so much for showing up so authentically. It was so
Speaker 2: great to just go back and forth with you and
Speaker 2: dissect so many different themes and topic.
Speaker 3: I'm so grateful to spend time with you. A calm
Speaker 3: wait to have you back.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jan It's such a pleasure.
Speaker 3: Thanks appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Hey everyone, if you love that conversation, go and check
Speaker 2: out my episode with the world's leading therapist Laurie Gottlieb,
Speaker 2: where she answers the biggest questions that people ask in
Speaker 2: therapy when it comes to love, relationships, heartbreak, and dating.
Speaker 2: If you're trying to figure out that space right now,
Speaker 2: you won't want to miss this conversation.
Speaker 3: If it's a romantic relationship, hold hands. It's really hard
Speaker 3: to argue.
Speaker 1: It actually calms your nervous systems. Just hold hands as
Speaker 1: you're having the conversation. It's so lovely.