WEBVTT - Guardians and Gladiators w/ Stephen Wallem 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:04.359 Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable. 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:07.160 We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:08.039 vicious felonies. 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:11.640 These episodes are based on These are our stories done. 0:00:11.320 --> 0:00:30.120 Done, Yay, that's messed up. 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:31.720 An sv podcast. 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:36.920 I'm Lisa Traeger, I'm Kara Klank and we do SVU recabs, 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:41.720 true crime, deep dives, conversations with interesting people, actors, et cetera. 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:46.479 And first, boy, do I have a story for you? 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:47.239 Do you do? 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:52.560 You're gonna like it? So I go to see Kat 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:57.320 Cohen's show, Oh yeah, broad Strokes. I'm a huge fan 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.520 of hers and a friend and I can't wait. So 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.840 I'm really excited and obviously a textra like can I 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.000 say hi? After she goes wait in the house, like, 0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:07.880 and I'll come out to say hi. So I and 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:10.839 you know, me at live performances and I need everyone 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.679 on their best behavior. So I go alone and the 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.240 people in front of me won't stop talking, like they're 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.320 annoying because it's like, you know, you can laugh, you 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:19.679 don't have to look at the person next to you 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.240 before you laugh. But that's a low you know, like whatever, 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:25.440 But they're like I would say every two minutes, saying something, 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.560 whispering to each other, leaning over. They're obviously a little sauce. 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:31.560 They just keep talking. So twice politely, I go, can 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:32.520 you please stop talking? 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:33.520 Nothing? 0:01:33.520 --> 0:01:36.120 I go again, can you please stop talking? Nothing? I 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.800 am getting more and more enraged. They are not stopping. 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.919 It is constant, because I also understand, like a story 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.800 hits and you're like, oh my god, or that was lovely, 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:47.920 Like I'm not like, I'm not a psychopath, but it 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:52.440 was like consistent little chatters, over and over and over 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.680 and leaning and moving. I get the usher. The usher 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.800 then tells them to stop talking. While he's telling them 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.720 to stop talking, the other two are having full comes. Finally, 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:06.440 I go, stop talking, and this woman turns around and goes, 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.560 what the fuck is your problem? What do you want? 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:11.840 I go, I need you to shut the fuck up. 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:16.360 Stop talking. They barely do. Next thing, you know, it 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.079 is Kat's Anton cousins and we are the only ones 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:19.919 left in the house. 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:24.440 Oh my god, oh my god. 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:27.400 Okay, first of all, we just interviewed somebody like ten 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:29.360 minutes ago who told us a story where I went 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:31.440 and like put my hands over my mouth and I 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:32.919 just did the exact same thing. 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:36.920 Oh my, and I actually, why are you talking at 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:42.280 your at your niece's like that? Well, I do get 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:44.840 it a little because they relate. 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:46.119 You know, she mentions their mom. 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.840 You know, she mentions like they know her, So I 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:52.320 understand that they like have a deeper knowledge of her life, 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:53.800 the songs, the story. 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:54.120 And what happened. 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.440 But then she turned around to yell at me. That's 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.440 when it hit me. I go, oh my god, they're related. 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:01.280 I go, this is her family. I go, this is 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:02.040 her fucking family. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:02.560 I know it. 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:04.800 I go, I bet we're gonna be all meetings. So 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:07.639 then I don't move, and neither do they. So then 0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:10.840 I sit somewhere else. The stage manager, who like told 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:12.520 him to be quiet, comes over. He goes, well, this 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.840 is awkward. I go, honey, don't I know it? I go, 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:19.200 you know that's her family. He goes, oh yeah, he goes. 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:23.120 And so then Kat comes out with her like nebulizer 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.560 thing because her vocals are incredible in the show, and 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:27.520 I would say I've never seen a one person show 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:32.079 with such incredible like set design, props, the band, the 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:36.520 lighting is unreal, Like she sounds incredible. 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:37.640 Isn't Lane? 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.480 No, it's at the Lucille Lortel Lucille Hotel Nice yeaeah. 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:43.680 So it's it's a huge space and she's doing it 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.120 till September twenty fifth, but like an incredible show. But 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.120 so then she comes out and like they go to 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.120 Hugger and I'm standing a little further back and she's like, 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:53.920 come here, it's my family. I go, you come here, 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.480 and she's she's like, I've never seen you so demure, 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:58.840 Like what's going on? I go, it got volatile between 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.240 me and your family. She starts laughing. She goes, what 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:03.560 I go. I yelled at them to stop talking multiple times. 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.400 I'm like I can't really go over there, and they 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:07.920 actually don't give a fuck. And then but she said, 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:11.160 she goes, I'm not surprised. She goes, I'm not surprised 0:04:11.200 --> 0:04:11.520 at all. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:12.520 And then she. 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:14.320 Texts me later she's like, you have to tell me 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.600 what happened. They are so loud, like they never shut up. 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:18.560 So like she did, like that's what it's her face. 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.679 But I'll see them at the wedding, so that'll be nice. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:27.039 Like crazy, oh my god, truly were the only ones 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.080 left in there, Like it was me and like the 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:30.440 four of them. 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:34.520 It's just like, okay, like I get that you know 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.080 this person, and I'm sure the little stories are making 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:39.440 you go, oh, I remember that look at each other 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.479 with a little look tap each other. You don't have 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:43.560 to like have a convo about everything because you are 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:45.520 affecting how other people are experiencing. 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:47.800 But it is my curse. It is my curse. I'm 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:51.240 always near the worst behaved people. I had to tell 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.360 people behind me multiple times during my last visit at 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.599 Oh Mary to stop talking, like I really don't understand, 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.080 and I had a whole I'm gonna be like, have 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:01.240 you never gone to the theat or like in my head, 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:03.560 it's like the lights are on one person and you 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.599 listen to them and then you talk about it after 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:07.960 or if something crazy or something. 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.080 But it's also an hour show like how much do 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.359 you have to talk? But no. 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:14.200 Once I like yelled at them a few times and 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:15.760 I could tell they kept talking. I was like, oh 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:17.400 my god, I bet it's their family. I'm like, it's 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:19.479 her fucking family. I'm like, we're gonna be the only 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:20.520 ones left in the house. 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:21.000 I know it. 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.440 So it was definitely like I have to stop interacting 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:24.840 with people. 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:25.440 I have to leave. 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:27.400 I don't know what to do, but I definitely can't 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.680 be fighting people's family. And I was texting or being 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:31.160 like I'm humiliated. She's like, you don't have to be. 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.359 It's pretty funny. I go, well, I just like fought 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.680 your family at your show, Like this sucks for me. 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:37.479 I cannot believe it was like just wait in the 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.200 house and it was just you and these people. 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:41.640 That's fucking great. That's cold. 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:44.719 Yeah, you know, I wouldn't say it's limited to live performances. 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:47.400 You don't like it when people do it at movies or. 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.479 I'm very strict, and that's why I go alone. 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.640 And that's why I don't go with people, because everyone 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.520 bothers me. I mean, Jared just looks at his phone 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:57.200 Jered Gold see, and I can't be out. 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:59.520 Oh I can't. He'll just check it something because he 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:00.200 saw the audist. See. 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:01.640 I go, yeah, I can't. I wish I could enjoy 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:03.600 things with you, and he goes, oh, yeah, I checked 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:05.839 my phone a lot, and I'm like, yeah, I cannot deal. 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:08.560 That's why I go alone. I go it off hours 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.320 so then if someone bothers me, I can even move 0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:13.680 to a different seat, Like I don't want to ruin 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.920 other people's times. I want people to enjoy themselves too. 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.160 And I'm also understand like if we're all going to 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:21.320 a midnight movie or we're going to a horror movie 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.840 and we're screaming like a Mortal Kombat, I'm acting different 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:27.400 than I am certain other movies. Yeah, but like I 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:30.120 just and I don't know if it's because I'm a 0:06:30.160 --> 0:06:35.400 performer too. I just don't understand. Because it's also like, 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:37.640 who knows if they spent money or not. They're obviously rich, 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.640 but in my head, it's like going to a comedy 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.440 shore or something ends up costing one hundred plus dollars. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.960 You know you're buying the ticket, there's usually a drink minimum. 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.440 Who knows if you had to buy a babysitter, pay 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:51.360 for parking. So in my head, like you think you're 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:53.520 just talking in the audience, but there's people next to 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.120 you that could have driven past state lines. They've been 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:58.680 waiting for this, they bought tickets five months in advance. 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:02.640 Like not only but courtesy is contagious, and so is rudeness. 0:07:02.680 --> 0:07:04.800 I think if people hear you talking, they think they 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:06.159 can talk and then. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.120 It's like, then we're ruining the whole fucking thing. 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:11.040 So I'm I think I'm extra sensitive to it. But 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:12.600 do you remember when we went to see the screening 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:13.280 of Fire Island? 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.320 And yes, that's exactly what I thought of the second 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:15.920 this started. 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.560 But then when I told them to stop talking, like 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.679 how much better the experience became immediately, Like I should 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:23.960 have yelled at them earlier. But I do feel self 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.880 conscious because it's like that in the Fire Island screening, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:28.280 I was like, this is a gay movie. I've never 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.200 even been to Fire Island like that. Let these boys 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:32.840 enjoy their movie like this is I'm a guest in 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:33.480 their space. 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:35.600 Like that's how I kept yeah, And then finally I 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:35.960 had to go. 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:38.360 Are you really not gonna stop for one fucking second? 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.440 Like it's the fucking emotional crux of the movie. Can 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:43.840 you not let Bowen and Joel have a fucking heart 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:45.720 to heart for one fucking silent moment? 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:46.760 Like yeah, I can't. 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.080 Same with Casey Muskroves concert, like I yelled at these 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.360 people because it's like this isn't allowed. I just I 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.280 had these Kcy musk Greaves tickets. 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:54.880 For like ten months. 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.440 They're two hundred plus dollars, like, I don't know, it 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.240 drives me insane, so I obviously am too extra strict 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.880 about it. I felt very seen at Caleb's podcast because 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:06.800 Matteo like I would never go to the movies with him, 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:09.920 you know, like he taught he likes to chat. Marie 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.840 likes to chat, like they're chatters. And so Matteo is 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:14.560 telling Caleb on the pod like, oh, I want to 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:16.480 show you my favorite movie, my best friend's wedding, But 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.080 how do you watch movies? Like we like to make 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.160 jokes and talk, And Caleb went, I am very strict, 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.880 and I expect obedience and like discipline and like shut 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:28.280 your mouth. And I felt very seen in that moment 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.319 because it's not like fun but I, I don't know, 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.599 it's obvious I'm the problem. It's me, I thought her. Yeah, 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.040 like I can't, I can't really walk away from this 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:44.800 experience feeling great, you know right, that is so freaking funny. 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:45.920 Yeah, no, Jared. 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:48.960 Jared had to stop going to He goes to double 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:50.920 features at the New Beverly all the time, which is, 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.000 you know, Quentin Tarantino's theater. It's like very movie people 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:56.880 go there and it's like you do not look at 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.040 your phone, and his friend just kept whipping out his 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:00.840 phone and he was like stop coming with me, like 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:03.679 stop coming, and so he's like stopped. Like this guy 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.720 would not he would not like respond his invitations to 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:07.320 go anymore. 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.400 No, and we were gonna like I was too tired, 0:09:10.559 --> 0:09:12.160 you know, I've been traveling so much. But like I 0:09:12.200 --> 0:09:14.000 went to dinner Estuday with some friends and we were 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.079 gonna maybe try to go to a movie, but it 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:17.800 was a movie with do Alipa's husband. 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:18.440 I don't give a shit. 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:20.880 Check your phone, like you know what I mean, Like, 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:22.680 there are you know, wait, is it. 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:24.800 The one where people can only have sex for one 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.600 day out of the year. It's called one night only? Yeah, 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:29.559 one night Yeah. 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.120 Because when he came on, that promo came on during 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.360 an odyssey, and I was like, what is this show? 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:39.480 Like they're all talking about how they need to fuck 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:41.800 that night, but nobody says at the beginning of the promo, 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:43.880 maybe I missed it. Well, you know, this is the 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:45.560 only night of the year we can fuck, right, Like, 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:47.199 so I don't know what's going on in the promo, 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:50.320 but everyone's dressed up looking to fuck and I'm like, 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.040 is it New Year's but it's sunny in New York City? 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.200 Like what where are we in a fictional city? Where 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:56.480 are we? Like? I was so. 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.840 Confused, and then I go, oh, this is do Alipa's 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:03.520 new husband to Jared who doesn't care, and then jaya. 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.600 A Lipa is an avid reader, he should care. She 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.600 created a library with all bands books. She has a 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.680 book podcast that she interviews authors and like a lot 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:14.480 of I'm not deep that deep in, but they say 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:16.200 that like she's one of the few people that actually 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.800 like fully reads the books. And and then I saw 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.280 an Instagram story from someone that didn't know she was 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.120 a pop star and only knew her from the book stuff. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:28.120 So then someone mentioned her image and it goes, oh, you. 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:29.880 Love the book podcast, and they're like, what the fuck 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:30.560 are you talking about? 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:33.200 And then he learned that she's like the biggest pops. 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:35.880 To your favorite podcaster is just like popping and walking 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:38.960 in Brazil like to a sold out stadium. 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:41.439 No, so I think maybe Jared might get into do Alipa. 0:10:41.559 --> 0:10:42.880 She's a really apple reader. 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.120 I had to look up one night only later to 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:47.400 find out that that's the premise is that there's like 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.920 only one night of sex or whatever. I don't I'll 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.400 catch that one on a plane. But I exactly. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:54.960 But that's why I was like, oh, I'll go with 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:58.240 friends and talk like I am a fun person. 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.800 Yeah, but yeah, I just I did see Odyssey and 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:04.800 then I really liked it. And then I read that 0:11:04.880 --> 0:11:06.960 review that you sent me of the woman who did 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:10.960 the translation of the Odyssey. She didn't like it, but 0:11:12.120 --> 0:11:14.600 I was like, I feel like I was not looking 0:11:14.880 --> 0:11:19.400 for a like text perfect following of the Odyssey. I 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.520 knew I was going to see at Christopher Nolan movie, 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.920 so what I got was entertaining, you know, But like 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.240 she was like, one of the funniest things in the 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:30.440 Odyssey is this part they didn't even include it? 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:30.920 What about? 0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:33.319 And like why didn't they show any gods. I'm kind 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.400 of like, I don't know the way Christopher Nolan's going 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.200 to show gods. It's going to be really like weird, 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:40.559 I feel like, or over the top. And I kind 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.839 of liked the way that it was. But she had 0:11:42.840 --> 0:11:44.839 some points. But some of her points I thought were 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:50.080 deeply you are a scholar of the Odyssey and really well, 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:50.760 I think. 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:56.040 It's also because he like if he just did the movie, 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.000 I don't think it'd be I think I don't think 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:00.600 she would have written that or cared. But he kept 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:05.560 kind of talking about how it's her adaptation. He followed 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:07.920 to it, that's what it is, like she he just 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:10.200 kept being like Emily Wilson, Emily Wilson, this is the one, 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:12.280 this is the one. Like an interviews, he kept addressing 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.760 her book, and I think if he didn't do that, 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.400 or maybe only at once, she wouldn't have cared. But 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:20.560 because she's also getting all this vitrial from like the 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.080 in cells and stuff of like this dumb bitch and 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:26.880 connected to this movie that she didn't really like, like 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.720 I think I think her being like, hey, he didn't 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:33.559 actually use my book, okay, and there should have been 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:37.520 more fucking and good looking food. Like so she is 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.280 a dork though obviously, like I saw her speaking in 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.640 ancient Greek at like an interview like these Greek. 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.480 She has interesting points too, though, but some of the 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:49.360 points I was like, like, at one point she was like, 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.040 so it's bad to murder people when the Trope, when 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.320 the Greeks do it to the Trojans, but it's not 0:12:55.559 --> 0:13:02.280 bad when like Matthew when when when I'm sorry, Odysseus 0:13:02.280 --> 0:13:04.959 like murder like murders all these suitors and sorry that's 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.120 a spoiler, but like, uh, that's the Odyssey. 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.200 You read it in ninth grade, so oh my god. 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:12.920 My friend was telling me there's people online me like, 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.400 shut up and stop pretending you read this in high school, 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:16.959 and I'm like, I read it in sixth grade. 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:17.839 You fucking more on. 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:21.080 Yeah, I would never judge anyone for what they read 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:23.440 and didn't read. But like he was just saying, he 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:25.520 like someone was claiming that we're all lying that we 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.640 read it as children, and it's like I wouldn't do 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:29.319 it on my own. 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:31.160 We had to read it. 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:33.600 Yeah, this is like your intro to Greek mythology at 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:35.480 least our like age group. 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:41.040 But I okay, wait, so wait, but now you have 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.320 to read the Joyce Carol Oates one of Emily Wilson's article. 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.320 So that's for next week. You let us know what 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:47.839 that's like. Oh wait, Joyce. 0:13:47.559 --> 0:13:49.320 Carol Oates then responds, and. 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:53.360 Emily Wilson, You're like a dumb bitch, like get a life. 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:55.960 Oh my god, women on women violence. 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:58.800 Okay, I didn't read the Joyce one yet, but like, 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.560 so that's really funny. I also Anthony jessel Nick just 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.679 had a huge feature in the La Times about his 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:05.280 book club. 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:06.680 Oh yes, I know. 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.160 And actually I have written down some of the books 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.760 that I've seen Anthony mention on Instagram and stuff. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:13.679 Yeah, he's a big reader. 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.400 I mean it's really like opened my life to such 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:18.840 to such new things. 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.800 It's really been so beautiful. Yeah Joyce. 0:14:22.840 --> 0:14:26.080 Carol Oates panned Emily Wilson's Odyssey, Pan, I can't wait 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:27.720 to read this, okay for next week. 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:29.440 But I thought Matt Damon did a great job. 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:34.640 Anne Hathaway gorgeous, so good again, like yeah, he the 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.880 women could have all done a lot more. But I 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:40.200 thought the woman that played Searcy, she's a way what 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.360 is her name, She's like an Oscar winning actor, Samantha Morton. 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.480 Samantha Morton. Yeah, sorry, you had that quickerles. I just 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.840 saw Casey the movie buff would know that one. She 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.400 was excellent, Like, she had a great I thought she 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:53.040 had a great part. 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.240 Well, I was at my hair stylis house or she 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:59.240 was at whatever. She accidentally said it was Samantha mathis 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.440 not more And and I went she's been on the 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.280 pod and so then when I saw that, that's why 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:07.720 her name is so in my head, because I was like, 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:09.440 I can't wait to see her again, to be like girl, 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.200 Yeah it was not Samantha mathis right. 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.120 I so you loved it, you liked it, you had 0:15:16.120 --> 0:15:16.600 a good time. 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:19.840 I had a great time. It's a little under three hours. 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.480 I felt like it flew by. I thought it looked cool. 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:26.040 I mean like, yeah, I didn't read any I didn't 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:28.760 like refresh my memory on the Odyssey before I went, 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:30.640 or I might have been like, huh, that didn't happen 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.200 like that, But like the Odyssey of all Things was 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:37.400 an oral tale that was told from person to person 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:39.320 and changed over time. So I think if he does 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:41.880 his own interpretation of it, that's fine. 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:43.000 It's fine. 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.240 I think if it was if it wasn't so attached 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:47.920 to her book, she probably wouldn't have written anything. Probably, Yeah, 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.880 But I was thinking I wanted to read Sircy before 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:52.880 I saw it. But now I'm in this other book, 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:54.640 so we'll see if I can get finished this one, 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.000 because this one's over four hundred pages, so we'll see. 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.800 But you know, I the Song of Achilles is like 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.240 what I read that, like alterned my being mm and like, 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.360 so I just hate these motherfuckers, Like I hate what's 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:14.160 his name, Agamenonon I'll slip yeah, because I just read it. 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:15.600 I don't know how to say any of their names, 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:18.400 Like who plays him? 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:24.520 Agamemnon in the Odyssey is played by Benny SAFTI right, 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:26.840 it's one of the Safty So it. 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.800 All works out because in the book Song of Achilles, 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.040 like I will murder that man and Odysseus, all of them, 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.920 you fucking losers, like you have to go to war, 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:37.200 like get a life. 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.880 She doesn't want to be with you, she doesn't want 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:40.360 to be with you. 0:16:40.560 --> 0:16:44.080 Helen's been taken, like for them to have ruined Achilles 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:48.000 and what how do you say Petrocolis, Petrocolis, petrocolis. Yeah, 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:53.000 Like I just they're my heart and soul. And so 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.080 I'm just mad at everyone. So I don't know if 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:59.720 I'm gonna be able to watch this. I'm like so mad, 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:04.119 but I'll obviously see I want to see the invite 0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:05.840 though before sorry, I have to see that. 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.720 I want to see the invite really badly because yeah, 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:11.560 my friend just texted me and was like there's a 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:13.800 person in it that reminds us of a friend or something, 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:19.520 and so I really need to see it. Okay, so 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.080 we are in the time machine obviously because I'm in 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:23.000 the woods or whatever. 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:24.479 But and so this will be late for a lot 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:24.719 of you. 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.800 But people have been asking us to weigh in on this, 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.720 and I my algorithm knows I'm a mom, and so 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.400 it constantly sends me child death. I don't know if 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.680 that happens to other people that are moms that listen 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:39.080 to this podcast or parents, like it will be like 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:42.800 like this person's baby drowned, and like what you know, 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:44.760 it just like sends you articles all the time about 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:46.240 this kind of stuff. So this stuff was like coming 0:17:46.280 --> 0:17:48.320 into my feed, and then the more I started interacting 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:52.120 with it, the Lindsey Clancy trial has literally taken over 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:54.879 my entire social media feed in a way that I 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.840 don't enjoy. But I have been deep diving into it 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.400 a little bit more. And so this is a woman who, 0:18:01.840 --> 0:18:05.439 in a bout of postpartum psychosis, took the lives of 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:09.359 her three children while her husband was out of the 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:11.919 house for like literally fifty minutes. 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:14.120 Like it's a really, really wild. 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:18.639 Timeline, and people are the internet is interneting really hard 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:22.400 and are trying to make it. Are trying to say 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:25.439 that she didn't do it, that her husband did it. 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:28.600 She doesn't remember doing it, but she's like, oh, I 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.240 must have done it, because like his timeline adds up, 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:35.760 he was at CBS. He picked up the the takeout 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:37.439 and then he went back to the house and he 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.600 found her outside in the snow. She had jumped out 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.680 of a second when second floor window. She is paralyzed 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:46.360 from the waist down from this jump. By the way, 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:49.879 I only found that out a few days ago. She 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.040 had tried to slit her wrists. She had tried to 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.040 take her own life, and then the kids were in 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:56.199 the basement and were One of them was able to 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:58.400 be resuscitated, but then died a couple of days later, 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:00.000 so that the children were all to see. 0:18:59.960 --> 0:19:01.600 It's like so heartbreaking. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.159 And this woman was a labor and delivery nurse, Like 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.320 she was not a person that was like yeah, I 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:08.359 kind of just met this guy and he wanted kids 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.040 and like whatever, Like she loved babies and like loved 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.760 her children and had asked reached out for help with 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:20.119 mental with postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, all kinds of like 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.520 postpartum issues that she was having, and she was prescribed 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.720 medicine and then it would make her feel numb, and 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:28.520 then she would get off of that medicine. And I 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.160 understand there is like a cocktail of finding your medicine. 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:36.760 But she checked herself in to a rehab, an inpatient 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.480 rehab on January first, for five days, so she was 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:43.640 there a roughly January first through fifth, and she killed 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.720 her kids like nineteen days later. And in that rehab, 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.600 it's like they asked her, do you have any plans 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:50.840 to hurt yourself for anyone else? 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:52.440 And she said no, and they were like, I guess 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:53.520 we're good. Like I don't know. 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.480 This feels like a failure of medical professionals. 0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:00.439 Well I saw the video of the fucking psychiatrist getting 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:02.600 reamed out by this defense. 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.399 Yeah, so I think there's like the one issue. 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:07.480 But also like this man has a new girlfriend four 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:09.440 months later, your whole face, not a new girlfriend. 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:10.240 Not a new girlfriend. 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.960 He's remarried and has a new child with this and 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.320 has a child with this woman, and the entire thing 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:18.800 happened three and a half years ago. Like I listen 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:23.080 when like a famous comedian, his wife passed away, he 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:24.680 got married within a year, and people were trying to 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.439 give him shit. I was like, no, he like that 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:31.080 is a tragedy that happened to him, where he wants 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:32.960 to move on and date someone else and falls in 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:33.520 love with someone else. 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:34.440 I think that's possible. 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.879 I cannot believe that, Like your three children can be 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.080 murdered by your wife and you can be like I'm 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:44.160 ready to date, like within a three year span, and. 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.919 You don't think there's any way that he did it, 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:48.480 or like the police with the shady investigation, like there's 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:50.560 none of that, Like she did it, and that's that. 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:54.439 I think that the physical evidence is like he was 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.920 not there when it happened and she was. But like 0:20:57.480 --> 0:20:59.959 there's all kinds of stuff people are bad badding, like 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:03.520 all this stuff around Facebook and Instagram and TikTok and 0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.479 like there's all this conspiracy stuff going on. That's like 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:08.760 his fingerprints were actually there and not hers, and then 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:11.560 people are like that's not true. They're also filing a 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:15.400 civil suit together, both of them. He immediately came out 0:21:15.400 --> 0:21:17.280 after this happened and said he wanted people to forgive 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.280 his wife like he was like I, and people are 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.600 like he was taking all these trips to New York 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.480 and he was leaving her alone when he knew she 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:27.639 was struggling, And then other people are like, no, he 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.520 advocated for her to get help. He hired a nanny 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.320 to help her around the house. He saved money knowing 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:35.960 that she couldn't go back to work, like he was not. 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.640 I think people are just trying to like villainize this guy. 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.159 Is it possible in the realm of like what a 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:46.560 podcast that we host where all these crazy things happen 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.160 and we've read in SAE cases like a woman went 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:51.600 to jail for seven months for a crime that her 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:54.640 ex boyfriend framed her for. Like, of course, I think 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:57.800 these things can happen, But I just have to believe 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:03.119 that they've done so much digging into this and that 0:22:03.160 --> 0:22:06.560 if there was any evidence to support that, they wouldn't 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.880 be a trial right now on this. I think it's 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:11.800 crazy she's even on trial, Like I think this is 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:17.320 like this person's life is ruined, Like there's no evidence 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:21.080 that she premeditated killing her children, that she she literally 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:21.920 her husband went out. 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:24.640 She started hearing voices saying kill the kids. 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.399 She heard a men's man's voice telling her to do it, 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:31.320 and I think seeing like something like go with God 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:32.720 or go to God or something like. 0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:35.199 Can they like can the psychiatrist go to jail? Like 0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:38.480 what because the attorney is doing such a good job. 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:41.040 It's really like booking hole. You know, he's doing the 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:45.320 reasonable doubt fucking dance like it is every clip I 0:22:45.359 --> 0:22:47.880 see is incredible. But his job is like to get 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:49.720 her into a hospital seat of prison, Like she's not 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:51.520 gonna be found not guilty, right right. 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:54.400 Right, It's going to be prison versus and like this 0:22:54.440 --> 0:22:56.640 woman does not need to be in prison, like this 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.720 woman who is so like we've seen killers on the 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:02.520 stage and who are just like stone face. She's sobbing 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:06.639 through the court proceedings. She's in a wheelchair. I mean, like, 0:23:06.800 --> 0:23:10.320 I just don't see how this and then they're you know, 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:13.399 I just think it's like fire, like postpartum is so 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:17.639 woefully under researched, Like people do not understand she this 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:22.240 woman did everything right, like she journaled, she went to doctors, 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:25.200 she went back again. She said this isn't working, blah 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:27.320 blah blah. She reached out, She told people, she told 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:30.840 friends like she never specifically said I'm going to harm 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:36.480 my kids, but that's because this was a like postpartum psychosis. 0:23:35.840 --> 0:23:36.399 Can come and go. 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:38.600 It can just be like about of something that happens, 0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:41.960 you know. So it's really it's disheartening to see so 0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:44.359 many people be like it doesn't matter she murdered those kids. 0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:46.679 It's like, it does matter, Like if you're under a 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:52.280 complete like fugue state caused by postpartum psychosis, it does 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:52.919 matter to me. 0:23:53.160 --> 0:23:54.200 I think it matters. 0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:57.080 Well because there's also not how people usually react. I 0:23:57.080 --> 0:23:59.360 feel like, usually, like with Andrea Yates and all these people, 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:01.399 like when you kill your own kids, people are pissed. 0:24:02.440 --> 0:24:05.239 So like the fact that so many women and like 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:10.040 people are like behind her, it says something too right. 0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:13.360 I mean, there's other women that have done this where 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:15.440 it's like, oh, it was a black guy that took 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:18.399 my car and drove and killed my kids, like they've 0:24:18.600 --> 0:24:20.960 created a whole story. This is like a woman who 0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:24.720 like and what I think. Another thing that's like weird 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:26.800 is like her body was at eighty two degrees when 0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:29.680 they found her, and they're like, how is it possible 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:35.400 that she got her body temperature lowered that much when 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:38.119 he was only gone for like forty five minutes, Like 0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:40.160 she called him on the phone while he was at 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:42.359 CBS and spoke to him and she sounded normal, and 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:45.119 then he was home forty minutes later and this had 0:24:45.119 --> 0:24:49.800 all happened. So and everybody's like, it takes this much 0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:52.640 time to strangle someone and it couldn't have happened this way, 0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:56.440 and that he was drugging her to make her believe 0:24:57.040 --> 0:24:59.080 that she killed them, and then he set it all 0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:02.399 up to look like that, I mean, is it possible? Sure, 0:25:02.480 --> 0:25:05.000 Like I just like don't believe that this guy could 0:25:05.000 --> 0:25:08.000 have done it in a way that was so that 0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:10.439 not a stitch of evidence was found to support that. 0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:11.960 Like I don't know. I'm sure. 0:25:12.000 --> 0:25:16.439 Also psychiatrists and psychologists and therapists that listen to this 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:19.520 podcast are going to weigh in that it's not that 0:25:19.680 --> 0:25:22.160 easy to just like see someone struggling and say, oh, 0:25:22.160 --> 0:25:24.040 you have post part of psychosists, or you have this 0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:26.720 or like you know, it's not like necessarily like it's 0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:28.359 not like a blood test where you're like, oh, we 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:30.919 got it wrong, you know, like they were giving her 0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:31.560 different drug. 0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:33.480 Like I do know that finding the right. 0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:36.840 Drug cocktail that works for a specific person is a 0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:40.840 really specific process and it's not you know, oh, well, 0:25:40.840 --> 0:25:42.080 you should have given her this, or you should have 0:25:42.080 --> 0:25:43.399 known she was going to hurt her kids when, like 0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:46.200 she said, she never did. She also like, she also 0:25:46.320 --> 0:25:50.680 described herself as having intrusive thoughts, but later after the fact, 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:53.720 it was determined that she was actually having hallucinations. She 0:25:53.880 --> 0:25:57.440 just didn't know the difference between intrusive thoughts and hallucinations. 0:25:57.440 --> 0:26:00.800 Like intrusive thoughts are kind of like you're driving your 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:02.080 car and you're like, what if I just drove my 0:26:02.080 --> 0:26:04.680 car into this building, Like that's kind of an intrusive thought, right, 0:26:04.800 --> 0:26:07.920 Like a hallucination is like there's a man standing here 0:26:07.960 --> 0:26:10.080 telling me to kill my kids, Like you know, so 0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:13.760 she was having hallucinations but describing them as intrusive thoughts 0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:17.160 and so like, I don't know who can be blamed. 0:26:17.240 --> 0:26:18.760 I think it's a tragedy all around. 0:26:18.800 --> 0:26:20.680 And I don't think anything is solved by this woman 0:26:20.720 --> 0:26:24.800 going to jail personally, and if it makes them study 0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:28.000 postpartum and take post part of Like I go to 0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:31.480 my kid's pediatrician for their first year of life a 0:26:31.520 --> 0:26:33.520 ton of times because they've got to get all these 0:26:33.520 --> 0:26:36.360 shots and all these checkups, like at you know, this 0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:38.320 month and three months and four months and six months 0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:40.800 and whatever. And I fill out a survey every time, 0:26:40.920 --> 0:26:43.879 like am I crying uncontrollably? Am I feeling sad? Like 0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:46.680 you fill out these surveys. A lot of people are like, 0:26:46.680 --> 0:26:47.720 I don't know if I really want to talk to 0:26:47.760 --> 0:26:50.679 my pediatrician about this. A lot of people are like, 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:53.480 say that maybe something's happening, but not to the degree 0:26:53.480 --> 0:26:55.719 that it is. So I know they're trying to do 0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:58.719 more to identify when women are having these struggles, but 0:26:59.040 --> 0:27:02.240 there's still plenty of sietal pressure saying, oh, you just 0:27:02.240 --> 0:27:04.080 have the baby blue, suck it up like you're a mom. 0:27:04.119 --> 0:27:05.240 It's the best job in the world. 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:08.120 Like, you know, I feel very lucky that I've said 0:27:08.200 --> 0:27:11.600 on this podcast before, I've never had any postpartum depression. 0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:14.320 But like I was saying to Jared, I go imagine 0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:17.880 if I had. Imagine if Jared left to go work 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:20.520 on a movie when Rosie was two weeks old and 0:27:20.560 --> 0:27:23.320 he stayed there until she was eleven weeks old. If 0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:26.960 I suddenly thought I was gonna kill my kids, Like 0:27:27.040 --> 0:27:29.600 I mean, I can't even imagine, like what I would 0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:32.240 have done if I had had like a stroke of 0:27:32.800 --> 0:27:36.120 or about of postpartum psychosis like this, you know, like 0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:38.120 I would I was alone with my kid for like 0:27:38.440 --> 0:27:42.560 two months, so I mean obviously babysitters and friends and 0:27:42.600 --> 0:27:43.960 people were coming around, but. 0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:46.400 Because of the guilt, it's like your guilt of that, 0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:49.919 but it's like you can't control. It's like insane amounts 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:52.840 of hormones. Your body is going through the most insane 0:27:52.920 --> 0:27:55.800 thing ever, and it's like downplayed so men don't have 0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:58.240 to be as nice or something, but it's like the 0:27:58.280 --> 0:28:00.760 most psychotic thing that could happen to your body and 0:28:00.800 --> 0:28:04.320 hormones and brain. And then it's just like, wow, you 0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:07.320 better just be feeling great and ready to fucking six weeks. 0:28:07.400 --> 0:28:10.600 It's like, what the fuck is happening? Like the like 0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:17.280 complete ah, yeah, it's I mean, this is grim. But 0:28:17.359 --> 0:28:19.760 I was I don't know why I brought this up 0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:23.000 at dinner yesterday, but I was just saying, I'm like, 0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:26.199 if like abortion was just not a possibility and I 0:28:26.240 --> 0:28:28.600 got pregnant, like I would definitely jump off a bridge, 0:28:30.320 --> 0:28:32.480 Like I wouldn't. I don't know what I would do 0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:35.439 hopefully I can find another poison, but like I wouldn't 0:28:35.480 --> 0:28:37.320 go through I wouldn't be able to be pregnant. I 0:28:37.400 --> 0:28:40.640 really wouldn't like and it's opposite of what we're talking about, 0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:43.280 but it's like, uh, it is just such a huge 0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:46.040 fucking thing in the way it's dismissed in terms of 0:28:46.080 --> 0:28:49.840 reproductive talks of like just give it up for adoption. 0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:53.320 I don't want like the thought, like the thought of 0:28:53.640 --> 0:28:55.720 me being I don't know why this came up, probably 0:28:55.760 --> 0:28:57.880 because of this case. I'm thinking about all these things, 0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:00.880 like I don't know why I was. It's been swirling 0:29:00.960 --> 0:29:02.840 in me the last week, and I have an IUD 0:29:03.080 --> 0:29:06.920 but like I truly was like if I couldn't get 0:29:07.000 --> 0:29:10.560 an abortion and I was pregnant, I. 0:29:10.560 --> 0:29:12.040 Don't I don't know what I would do. 0:29:12.120 --> 0:29:14.520 I would truly I would be one of those people 0:29:14.560 --> 0:29:15.960 that like, yeah, because. 0:29:15.720 --> 0:29:18.040 It isn't just like you're getting fat for nine months. 0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:21.880 It's like it's a huge painful process to deliver the baby, 0:29:21.920 --> 0:29:24.720 and then there's repercussions mentally that can happen and physically 0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:27.800 for months afterwards, and you're just like have it get 0:29:28.040 --> 0:29:29.080 like give it up for adoption. 0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:31.960 It's just like it's so it's. 0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:34.520 And I think my point of view is maybe a 0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:36.680 minority or people just don't talk about it as much. 0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:39.600 But like the thought of it, truly, I like was 0:29:39.640 --> 0:29:41.160 sitting on I think a flight, being like, no, I 0:29:41.200 --> 0:29:42.840 would jump off a bridge, like I think I would 0:29:42.880 --> 0:29:43.600 jump off a bridge. 0:29:44.160 --> 0:29:46.200 Maybe I would do pills or something, but like, and. 0:29:46.160 --> 0:29:47.720 It's like fucked up to even talk about it like that, 0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:49.960 But I'm like, that is what I feel on the 0:29:49.960 --> 0:29:52.360 inside if I were to be pregnant, like I truly, 0:29:53.640 --> 0:29:57.360 I cannot even imagine it. Yeah, And then this woman 0:29:57.480 --> 0:29:59.560 wanted all these children she worked within. 0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:03.920 This she like, you know, she loved her children, but 0:30:04.000 --> 0:30:06.080 she just would like write journal entries that are like 0:30:06.120 --> 0:30:09.240 I feel like I'm suffocating. I feel like every day 0:30:09.360 --> 0:30:11.520 is like I'm just waiting for the next nap time. 0:30:11.920 --> 0:30:14.000 And that woman gave her zoloften. She shouldn't like that. 0:30:14.080 --> 0:30:16.760 Psychiatrists like she should be fucking imprisoned. 0:30:17.440 --> 0:30:20.360 I feel like I don't know the ins and outs 0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:23.440 of the psychiatry and how they could have prevented this. 0:30:23.520 --> 0:30:25.360 But this woman did like everything right, and I feel 0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:29.640 like she should just be be not being tried by 0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:32.600 like she should be just in a mental health facility, 0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:36.680 Like this is crazy. But I also feel like the 0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:40.360 internet is like they're like having fun with it in 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:43.360 a way that is really creepy. Like everyone's like this lawyer, 0:30:43.520 --> 0:30:45.880 what he's gonna do is he's setting it up so 0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:47.600 that you can actually turn it around on the husband. 0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:50.200 And it's like all these professional lawyers are like, that 0:30:50.320 --> 0:30:52.640 is not how the law works. The Commonwealth of Massachusetts 0:30:52.720 --> 0:30:54.400 is not doing that. That is like not how you 0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:56.280 bring a case. Like it's not like a Law and 0:30:56.360 --> 0:31:00.400 Order episode where you you like implicate so someone else. 0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:05.680 He is poking holes. He has to set up reasonable doubt. Yeah, 0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:09.600 and he is. Yeah, you know, the lawyer is good. 0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:11.400 The lawyer is really good, and. 0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:13.120 Thank god she found this lawyer. 0:31:14.040 --> 0:31:17.480 Yeah, but she's also suing the I think she's suing 0:31:17.560 --> 0:31:22.040 the practitioners. She's suing the practitioners civilly with her husband, 0:31:22.160 --> 0:31:28.040 like alongside them. Do they interact in court? I think 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:29.880 he was only on the stand. I don't know if 0:31:29.880 --> 0:31:31.720 he comes to court every day, but I know he can't. 0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:35.280 He took the stand. I don't know if they interact, 0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:38.400 I don't I don't know, and. 0:31:38.280 --> 0:31:44.840 Then Luigi's state trial I think starts September eighth. Yeah, 0:31:45.200 --> 0:31:47.720 but I'll try to be it's just too much to 0:31:47.760 --> 0:31:48.200 deal with. 0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:49.400 I know it's a lot. 0:31:50.320 --> 0:31:53.600 Anyway, Let's see, we've been babbling for a long time. Obviously, 0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:57.000 you guys can all in the comments of, like, you know, 0:31:57.080 --> 0:32:00.000 our Instagram post for this episode. You can let us 0:32:00.480 --> 0:32:02.640 let us know your feelings on this. But I'm sure 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:08.000 I don't know. It's like I'm not saying like completely impossible, 0:32:08.040 --> 0:32:11.160 but I'm saying very likely, not possible, that this husband 0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:15.760 has completely framed and that this trial is so under 0:32:15.760 --> 0:32:18.120 the public in the public eye and under a microscope, 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:21.520 and that like he did everything according to plan and 0:32:21.600 --> 0:32:24.080 nothing is and there's no evidence against him. 0:32:24.760 --> 0:32:26.520 Anyway, let's get started with the episode. 0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:28.320 You guys can go to That's Messed Up Live dot 0:32:28.360 --> 0:32:32.040 com obviously for our merch for links to Liza's tour dates, 0:32:32.080 --> 0:32:35.520 for link to our patreon if you'd like to join 0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:38.320 our patreon. We have two beautiful tiers of our patreon, 0:32:38.360 --> 0:32:41.320 and we're doing fun stuff over there, interviewing fun people, 0:32:41.560 --> 0:32:46.360 talking about conspiracy theories, watching book reviews, everything and anything. 0:32:46.400 --> 0:32:47.240 We're doing it over there. 0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:51.080 Patreon dot com slash that's messed up. And then let's 0:32:51.080 --> 0:32:58.000 get started with today's episode. All right, today we are 0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:02.760 doing Guardians and Glatty from season twenty two, episode one. 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:10.480 This is the season opener of the twenty second season, 0:33:10.560 --> 0:33:11.760 and we are deep in COVID. 0:33:11.760 --> 0:33:13.200 It's from November of twenty twenty. 0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:17.440 Yeah, the masks are a problem on the off. 0:33:17.240 --> 0:33:19.280 Like the masks watching. 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:23.960 Yes, as we've mentioned, like the mask use is very sporadic, 0:33:25.120 --> 0:33:27.800 And I wrote, first of all, lol to the card 0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:29.880 saying this is a fictional story and doesn't depict any 0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:32.040 actual person, Like I feel like whenever I see that card, 0:33:32.080 --> 0:33:34.520 I'm like, Okay, for sure, this is an episode decidedly 0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:38.160 based on an actual person. And then keep in mind 0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:41.360 it's like November of twenty twenty. We're in the height 0:33:41.520 --> 0:33:45.200 of we've had like Black Lives Matter, all of these 0:33:45.240 --> 0:33:48.560 like all the defund the police. Karen's like and the 0:33:48.600 --> 0:33:52.520 episode opens immediately with a Karen in a mask screaming 0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:55.000 at a man who's videotaping her and worsing the POV 0:33:55.160 --> 0:33:57.840 of his phone, and she has a kid with her 0:33:57.840 --> 0:33:59.480 and he's like, Mom, can you stop being such a 0:33:59.560 --> 0:34:02.160 dumb bitch, can we just go? And the man turns 0:34:02.200 --> 0:34:04.520 the camera on himself and obviously he's a black man, 0:34:05.040 --> 0:34:07.280 and the Karen is calling the cops on him to 0:34:07.280 --> 0:34:09.759 report him, and it's like for what exactly, Like she 0:34:09.840 --> 0:34:12.279 will not say, and so she calls the cops and goes, 0:34:12.400 --> 0:34:14.520 there's a black man here in the ramble in Central 0:34:14.560 --> 0:34:17.160 Park and he's threatening my son. And the guy's like, 0:34:17.320 --> 0:34:20.320 I'm just working out, uh, and he's like, this is 0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:25.600 America in twenty twenty. So this episode's very interesting because 0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:27.040 the show really decided to. 0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:30.560 Tackle this stuff like really head on. I think there 0:34:30.640 --> 0:34:32.479 is no way not to, you know what I mean. 0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:37.080 It's like the show in theory is cp Ganda. 0:34:37.120 --> 0:34:39.480 We've talked about the depth how sview is different than 0:34:39.560 --> 0:34:42.040 other departments, and that's what makes the show special. But 0:34:42.120 --> 0:34:45.640 it is, it is what it is. We hate defense attorneys. 0:34:45.680 --> 0:34:47.640 We love when they break the law, and we love 0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:53.319 when so it would be crazy not to cover like 0:34:54.040 --> 0:34:57.840 the Black Lives Matter and cops murdering black people constantly 0:34:57.920 --> 0:35:00.440 for with no punishment, Like it would be easy for 0:35:00.480 --> 0:35:00.799 them not. 0:35:00.800 --> 0:35:04.680 To, yeah, yeah, yeah, And we we can talk at 0:35:04.680 --> 0:35:06.919 the end about how they handle it, but we cut 0:35:06.960 --> 0:35:09.319 to the police now rolling up and now we're seeing 0:35:09.360 --> 0:35:13.200 everything through their bodycam footage POB. So we were seeing 0:35:13.200 --> 0:35:15.440 everything through a cell phone, now it's through bodycam, and 0:35:15.480 --> 0:35:17.920 it's I think that's like an interesting commentary on how 0:35:18.000 --> 0:35:20.760 like everything is being filmed now, like the whole crowd 0:35:20.760 --> 0:35:24.719 around them, everyone's stopped. Like people aren't really like no, 0:35:24.800 --> 0:35:26.560 I mean not like you need people to get involved, 0:35:26.600 --> 0:35:28.600 but no one's like, oh wow, it seems like this 0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:29.600 is an unfair thing happening. 0:35:29.640 --> 0:35:31.160 Everyone's just like I got to get this on video, 0:35:31.320 --> 0:35:31.759 like you know. 0:35:32.440 --> 0:35:38.040 And the guy is defending himself and the mom is like, 0:35:38.120 --> 0:35:40.799 he's scaring my son, and meanwhile the son is like, mom, 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:42.439 I need to go find my ball. Like the kid 0:35:42.560 --> 0:35:45.120 is at best annoyed, like he is not scared at all, 0:35:45.480 --> 0:35:47.359 and it's like seems like his mom is bothering him 0:35:47.360 --> 0:35:51.200 the most. And Dylan, the little boy, has run off 0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:53.680 to find his ball and he's like, Mommy, mommy, there's 0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:57.000 a man. So in the middle of this ridiculous Karen 0:35:57.080 --> 0:36:01.080 led harassment of a black man, this Karen's son finds 0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:05.239 a body. It's truly the only way SVU could do 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:09.399 this is Karen could portray Karen's is the way they're 0:36:09.400 --> 0:36:12.720 doing it. And the guy they find lying on the ground, 0:36:12.719 --> 0:36:15.759 he's moaning, he's alive and he's bleeding, and the woman 0:36:15.800 --> 0:36:19.160 immediately says that says, oh it's I knew something was 0:36:19.239 --> 0:36:19.919 about this guy. 0:36:20.160 --> 0:36:21.920 He must have done it. 0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:26.120 So this woman thinks she stumbled upon a guy who 0:36:26.520 --> 0:36:30.000 hurt somebody and then he made her son feel unsafe, 0:36:30.040 --> 0:36:32.120 and so she started videotaping called the cops like she 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:35.480 really feels like she's the hero here. And the cops 0:36:35.719 --> 0:36:40.359 arrests the man and they claim he's resisting and they 0:36:40.400 --> 0:36:42.680 basically take him down, and you can tell that they're 0:36:42.719 --> 0:36:44.560 not doing it in a nice way, right, Like this 0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:47.680 is definitely a commentary on you know, how the cops 0:36:47.760 --> 0:36:51.000 use unnecessary force. So finally we're and this is not, 0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:54.279 by the way, our cops. These are uniforms. Finally we're 0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:56.759 done with the shaky camera. Peovis and Benson is on 0:36:56.840 --> 0:36:59.200 the scene with Rollins. The victim says his name is Eric, 0:37:00.360 --> 0:37:03.000 and these freaks are just recording NonStop on their phones 0:37:03.000 --> 0:37:05.360 while this young guy who was found with his pants 0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:09.160 down bleeding is on a stretcher and Rollins is trying 0:37:09.200 --> 0:37:11.560 to get the look he lose to step back. She's like, 0:37:11.600 --> 0:37:13.520 come on, guys, step back, step back, and they're like, 0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:16.280 we're allowed to record. We're allowed to record. And Eric's 0:37:16.600 --> 0:37:18.759 Eric's trying to give them a statement and goes, he 0:37:18.840 --> 0:37:21.840 went nuts, he raped me. And Kat's asking did you 0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:25.400 know your attacker? And he just kind of starts coding, 0:37:25.520 --> 0:37:28.839 like he just starts like passing out. And so Liv 0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:31.680 tries to send Kat in the bus with Eric, but 0:37:32.120 --> 0:37:35.080 COVID she's not allowed to get in the ambulance with them, 0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:37.520 so she'll meet them at the hospital. So live in, 0:37:37.640 --> 0:37:41.000 Finn talk to the uniform who arrested this s guy 0:37:41.480 --> 0:37:44.360 and he's like the man's combative and aggressive, and Finn's like, 0:37:44.400 --> 0:37:47.160 you arrested him for being aggressive and he goes, no, sir, 0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:50.440 good show of respect for Finn, and he goes, I 0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:53.319 ran his ID and he has two outstanding warrants. So 0:37:53.440 --> 0:37:56.160 when Liv goes over to the suspect, he recognizes her 0:37:56.200 --> 0:37:58.080 and goes, don't I know you? I know you right, 0:37:58.600 --> 0:38:01.320 And she's like, I'll be asking questions and he says, 0:38:01.680 --> 0:38:03.520 I'm not answering any of your questions. I don't even 0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:06.040 know why I'm under arrest, and he tells them that 0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:07.719 his outstanding arrests. 0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:08.399 Are for protesting. 0:38:09.400 --> 0:38:12.759 So now we talk to Karen and thus not her name, 0:38:12.800 --> 0:38:15.359 but we will be calling her that. And she's like, 0:38:15.600 --> 0:38:17.279 I knew he was up to no good from his 0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:19.920 body language and the way he raised his voice. He 0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:22.200 scared my son. And then she goes, I'm not one 0:38:22.239 --> 0:38:24.600 of those Karens. And it's like, you absolutely need to 0:38:24.600 --> 0:38:26.360 look in the mirror because you are exactly that. 0:38:27.040 --> 0:38:28.880 So Finn is like, live, do we have to do 0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:29.399 it this way? 0:38:29.480 --> 0:38:31.720 Like we're profiling this guy, like we don't have anything 0:38:31.719 --> 0:38:35.279 but the word of this Karen and whatever. And she's like, 0:38:35.360 --> 0:38:38.799 he's got warrants, he's not helping himself. There's literally like 0:38:39.040 --> 0:38:41.160 no proof that this man did a damn thing besides 0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:44.839 b black in Central Park. Central Park is very populated, 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:48.399 Like it's not like you're in some I don't know, 0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:50.840 rural area where like yeah, sure, if you find a 0:38:50.880 --> 0:38:53.319 guy working out next to a body, you're like, yeah, 0:38:53.320 --> 0:38:56.120 you probably did this. Like what's going on? Central Park 0:38:56.160 --> 0:39:00.640 has people everywhere at all times. And Finn goes, all right, 0:39:00.680 --> 0:39:02.759 put him in the car, and the guy goes nuts 0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:04.400 because like there's this moment where you're like, oh, it's 0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:06.399 kind of up to Finn, and then Finn goes, yeah, 0:39:06.400 --> 0:39:07.960 I guess if the guy's not. 0:39:07.960 --> 0:39:11.239 Talking, that's upsetting to me. Yeah, and it's upsetting that 0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:14.120 finess to be in this situation obviously, you know. 0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:19.880 But yeah, like he's not talking, he's like, it's and 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:22.759 it's also I think they feel pressure because of all 0:39:22.800 --> 0:39:25.760 the cameras, because all these people are videotaping them. They've 0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:28.400 gotten a lot of shit because Amorrow shot a kid, 0:39:28.480 --> 0:39:32.239 because Finn just shot a black man in the projects. 0:39:32.239 --> 0:39:34.080 Like the cops are just getting. 0:39:34.200 --> 0:39:38.319 A lot of pressure, as they should be from the 0:39:38.360 --> 0:39:42.799 public for being untrustworthy using unnecessary force, like you know, 0:39:43.480 --> 0:39:46.759 no knock warrants, Breonna Taylor, Like we've all seen this 0:39:46.920 --> 0:39:51.319 all unfolding culturally across the entire country. And then even 0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:54.040 in the context of the show, some of the officers 0:39:54.080 --> 0:39:57.239 of this unit have been in trouble recently for these 0:39:57.360 --> 0:40:00.319 shootings that not everybody thinks are good, even though they 0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:05.000 may have been declared good by IAB. So, like, the 0:40:05.000 --> 0:40:08.040 guy is freaking out, the cops are stop resisting, and 0:40:08.080 --> 0:40:10.279 then Live looks uncertain that she made the right call 0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:12.719 and now we're at the credits. So back at Live's office, 0:40:12.719 --> 0:40:16.799 they're watching footage while Careese slathers on some antibacterial and 0:40:16.960 --> 0:40:19.000 like that's going to keep all the COVID away and 0:40:19.480 --> 0:40:22.759 lives like, wait, this bitch called the cops before the 0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:26.400 victim was discovered. The UNI never told us that, like 0:40:26.680 --> 0:40:28.919 they didn't realize that she was complaining about this guy 0:40:29.640 --> 0:40:33.320 for no reason. They thought that they found the body 0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:35.160 and then they called the cops like they didn't know 0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:40.160 the order of operations here. So Caresee's like, oh my god, 0:40:40.840 --> 0:40:42.920 basically like tell me, you guys didn't fuck this up. 0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:44.840 We have probable cause, right, and they. 0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:47.880 Mentioned the curfew violation warrants that this guy has against him, 0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:51.319 and Cariese's like, we're not prosecuting those, but this guy 0:40:51.360 --> 0:40:55.360 has nothing violent and no sexual assault in his record. 0:40:55.719 --> 0:40:59.239 And the victim, Erica Kino twenty six, lost consciousness before 0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:01.359 they could get a statement, and Coreese's lit up. They've 0:41:01.360 --> 0:41:03.440 got like jack shit and they want to go talk 0:41:03.480 --> 0:41:05.960 to the suspector's name is Jayvon Brown was played by 0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:10.800 Blake Anthony Morris. He explains, I work out there every 0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:13.560 morning after my night shift, like I'm a sorterer at 0:41:13.560 --> 0:41:17.000 this facility, Like, are you guys even asking the white 0:41:17.080 --> 0:41:20.839 lady questions? And he's like, I expect this nonsense from 0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:23.440 her talking about Benson, But doesn't this get old for you? 0:41:23.560 --> 0:41:26.480 Man to Finn and yeah, like. 0:41:27.040 --> 0:41:30.240 Finn's in a tough position as always. Now we're speaking 0:41:30.280 --> 0:41:35.719 to playing a nurse on TV Royalty. Steven Wallam, who 0:41:35.760 --> 0:41:39.480 here is playing Nurse Rudy Cindergard, and he's been on 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:42.319 eight episodes of SVU, ranging from seasons twenty one to 0:41:42.360 --> 0:41:46.200 twenty six. But he also famously played a nurse named 0:41:46.200 --> 0:41:48.719 Thor in seventy nine episodes of Nurse Jackie. 0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:50.839 And I did see him on the sidewalk once and 0:41:50.880 --> 0:41:53.040 I said, huge fan, and he gave a wink and 0:41:53.080 --> 0:41:56.680 it was a nice moment. Oh love that pre SVU, 0:41:56.840 --> 0:42:00.200 or obviously would have had some other things to say 0:42:00.360 --> 0:42:03.560 pre r pod. This is yeah, a long time ago, 0:42:04.560 --> 0:42:07.920 or maybe not pre the pod, but pre him being 0:42:08.120 --> 0:42:09.400 on SVO. 0:42:09.280 --> 0:42:11.000 So probably pre the who knows. 0:42:11.080 --> 0:42:12.560 I don't want to talk about it anymore, but I. 0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:13.080 Did see him. 0:42:13.640 --> 0:42:18.440 Yeah, when did we start this podcast? On episode twenty 0:42:18.840 --> 0:42:20.799 When we started the podcast, it was episode twenty two, 0:42:21.000 --> 0:42:23.920 because we started the podcast a week after this episode aired. 0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:25.040 Oh my god. 0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:28.440 Yeah, I mean obviously we started recording a little bit earlier, 0:42:28.440 --> 0:42:33.800 but the first episode came out like in twenty twenty. Okay, So, 0:42:33.800 --> 0:42:38.600 so Rudy Cindergard, the nurse, is bummed. He's like, Eric's 0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:40.480 one of the good guys. Like he's a resident. They 0:42:40.480 --> 0:42:42.799 bumped him up during COVID to work the er. By 0:42:42.840 --> 0:42:46.040 the way, he's in like full scrubs, this guy full mass, 0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:49.240 like everything, and he's emotional, like, I'm sure the trauma 0:42:49.280 --> 0:42:51.000 of being a nurse in a COVID er in New 0:42:51.080 --> 0:42:54.120 York City is contributing to it. And also now it 0:42:54.120 --> 0:42:56.520 seems like this guy he was friendly with, he's like, 0:42:56.520 --> 0:42:58.359 we haven't been able to do a rape kit on him, 0:42:58.360 --> 0:43:00.839 but there is some anal trauma. He goes, I'll get 0:43:00.880 --> 0:43:03.000 you the clothes for DNA, and then he points them 0:43:03.040 --> 0:43:06.239 to Eric's family and goes, they're Filipino Catholics, so. 0:43:06.200 --> 0:43:09.120 They might not be aware of Eric's orientation. 0:43:11.120 --> 0:43:14.360 So in the room with Eric's mom and brother, she 0:43:14.600 --> 0:43:16.399 was like, I was always worried about him walking through 0:43:16.400 --> 0:43:19.280 the park, and did you get that guy from the video, 0:43:19.320 --> 0:43:21.080 And she goes the black guy, like she does not 0:43:21.160 --> 0:43:24.560 say black guy in a nice way. And because now 0:43:24.600 --> 0:43:26.520 this video has gone viral, right, this video of this 0:43:26.560 --> 0:43:28.560 man getting arrested and everyone thinks he's the one that's 0:43:28.600 --> 0:43:32.080 hurt Eric, So Rollins asked the brother, like about the 0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:35.080 social life, friends relationships, and he obviously can't talk in 0:43:35.080 --> 0:43:37.439 front of his mom, and his mom's like, no, there's 0:43:37.440 --> 0:43:38.160 no time for that. 0:43:38.280 --> 0:43:39.560 It's all work and family. 0:43:40.160 --> 0:43:42.640 And now Cat and Rollins are chatting like how could 0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:45.120 his family not know what he was doing in the 0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:48.600 Ramble at night? And Kat's like, my family had no clue, 0:43:48.680 --> 0:43:50.600 And I guess I'm finding out too, Like I didn't 0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:51.560 know the Ramble. 0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:53.640 Is a historic gay hookup spot, Like I had no idea. 0:43:53.840 --> 0:43:56.239 And I walked by that all the time because it's 0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:58.120 right below seventy ninth Street, and I lived on the 0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:01.719 upper West and would walk to the ubber East. But yeah, 0:44:01.719 --> 0:44:04.440 I guess it's got like a lot of little nooks 0:44:04.440 --> 0:44:07.040 and crannies and it's very wooded, so you can kind 0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:10.760 of hook up and have some fun. But the brother 0:44:10.840 --> 0:44:13.399 catches up to them and he's like, obviously has tea 0:44:13.400 --> 0:44:15.360 dispill that he couldn't say in front of mom, and 0:44:15.400 --> 0:44:17.239 he's like, Eric texted me last night and told me 0:44:17.280 --> 0:44:19.560 not to wait up. He likes to unwind after his 0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:22.160 shift and he goes to the outdoor bars on Ninth Avenue. 0:44:23.120 --> 0:44:25.680 That's a huge party scene now, so they're gonna check 0:44:25.719 --> 0:44:27.760 traffic cams, run his cards, et cetera. 0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:30.000 At s you've been. 0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:33.560 In New York, Like people were having margaritas in the streets. Yeah, 0:44:33.840 --> 0:44:35.600 like obviously a lot of people were dying and it 0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:36.879 was really sad and scary, but. 0:44:38.600 --> 0:44:40.000 People were having margarita's. 0:44:40.400 --> 0:44:44.680 Yeah, it seems like really scary New York at that time, 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:46.359 but yeah, I know. 0:44:46.360 --> 0:44:48.439 It's like it because obviously people were dying. 0:44:48.440 --> 0:44:50.600 Their dead body is it's like a small city, so 0:44:50.680 --> 0:44:53.360 like every not small, but like like like there was 0:44:53.400 --> 0:44:56.239 nowhere to hide. But from La, it was just like 0:44:56.280 --> 0:44:58.680 watching a lot of my friends doing outdoor shows in 0:44:58.719 --> 0:45:01.600 the back of trucks and like walking the streets on 0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:05.440 patios having margarita's, and La felt so shut down. But 0:45:05.560 --> 0:45:10.480 obviously the joy was not worth all of the terrible things. 0:45:10.560 --> 0:45:13.680 But from a distance, I definitely was like, fucked, I 0:45:13.760 --> 0:45:15.520 make the right to sit because I'd only moved to 0:45:16.000 --> 0:45:18.920 La December twenty nineteen. So I just wasn't have a 0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:21.880 crazy time for you to have just moved to LA, 0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:22.319 for sure. 0:45:23.520 --> 0:45:25.560 But so I was so grateful to be in La. 0:45:25.760 --> 0:45:28.600 The weather, the walks, the community we had and all that. 0:45:28.719 --> 0:45:34.959 But definitely seeing people like doing packed outdoor shows was like, yeah, 0:45:35.120 --> 0:45:36.600 you know, I was jus. 0:45:36.560 --> 0:45:38.560 Even like my show, which is an outdoor show, didn't 0:45:38.600 --> 0:45:40.200 come back till July twenty twenty one. 0:45:40.239 --> 0:45:45.480 Now LA was very locked down, very locked down, very 0:45:45.480 --> 0:45:45.960 locked down. 0:45:49.680 --> 0:45:52.600 So then at SVU, the TV is playing the video 0:45:52.880 --> 0:45:56.359 of Javon being manhandled by the MIPD. Kreese's like, this 0:45:56.400 --> 0:45:58.440 has five million hits already. I mean, you don't even 0:45:58.440 --> 0:46:00.520 want to know how many calls I'm getting. And then 0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:03.240 Lives like, well, we found a problem with Javon's timeline. 0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:05.160 So Cariese and Live go to talk to him and 0:46:05.200 --> 0:46:07.240 they're like, well, you got to the park at seven am, 0:46:07.360 --> 0:46:09.160 but you punched out at your job at five am, 0:46:09.200 --> 0:46:11.680 so what's up. Like the gap in your timeline is 0:46:11.680 --> 0:46:14.319 when Eric Aquino was attacked in the ramble, Just tell 0:46:14.360 --> 0:46:16.680 us where you were, and he goes, I was having 0:46:16.719 --> 0:46:19.799 coffee with my sponsor before our six am meeting. He's 0:46:19.800 --> 0:46:23.439 in narcotics anonymous NA. Last spring, he hurt his back, 0:46:23.480 --> 0:46:26.000 he got hooked on oxy. He's clean now and lives Like, 0:46:26.040 --> 0:46:28.600 why didn't you tell us this? And he like the 0:46:28.680 --> 0:46:30.560 thing is is like you could chuck it up to 0:46:30.600 --> 0:46:33.520 being like if this guy had just talked and explained 0:46:33.560 --> 0:46:35.640 a lot of stuff at the beginning, he probably wouldn't 0:46:35.640 --> 0:46:38.600 have even gotten brought in or arrested. But you can 0:46:38.680 --> 0:46:41.239 also understand why black men don't want to talk to 0:46:41.280 --> 0:46:43.600 the police because they ignore what you say, they twist 0:46:43.600 --> 0:46:45.439 what you say, they don't care. 0:46:45.640 --> 0:46:47.480 They like, you know, we. 0:46:47.400 --> 0:46:49.959 See time and time again, the police have their eye 0:46:49.960 --> 0:46:52.840 on a narrative and they just sail towards that narrative 0:46:52.840 --> 0:46:54.719 and they don't they ignore everything else. 0:46:54.800 --> 0:46:59.680 With blinders on. So the guy's like, ah, I wanted 0:46:59.719 --> 0:47:01.279 to move. I want to move up at my job. 0:47:01.320 --> 0:47:03.720 I get better benefits and better pay if I'm a driver, 0:47:04.120 --> 0:47:06.440 and I don't want the NYPD telling my boss that 0:47:06.480 --> 0:47:09.000 I'm in NA. And Finn's like, your boss is never 0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:10.719 going to hear that from us, but we need your 0:47:10.719 --> 0:47:13.520 sponsor's number. So at a bar on Ninth Avenue called 0:47:13.600 --> 0:47:20.239 Onny Maddens, the Irish bartender full Irish accent, recognize Eric 0:47:20.320 --> 0:47:23.399 from the news, but not from the night before, and 0:47:24.160 --> 0:47:28.280 he thinks he remembers Javon though, but he was slammed, 0:47:28.280 --> 0:47:31.000 and he goes, everyone was outside. My camera's busted, so 0:47:31.040 --> 0:47:33.760 I really can't help you with any footage, and they're like, listen, buddy, 0:47:33.760 --> 0:47:35.279 we don't really care if you black out the camera, 0:47:35.360 --> 0:47:37.160 so you can stay open after hours, and he's like, 0:47:37.200 --> 0:47:40.279 I'm a reputable establishment and Rollin's like, well, my tech 0:47:40.280 --> 0:47:41.960 guys can come down here, and he's like not without 0:47:41.960 --> 0:47:45.319 a warrant, they can't. So cat taps her out and goes, 0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:47.520 I just got traffic cam footage of Eric walking down 0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:50.080 the street with this white guy, so definitely not Javon. 0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:53.360 Rollins clocks this guy from being at the park earlier 0:47:53.400 --> 0:47:56.279 filming the arrest and kind of popping off with some 0:47:56.400 --> 0:48:01.040 BLM chan looky loose and now but I see this guy. 0:48:01.160 --> 0:48:03.279 I also clocked him because I remember thinking he kind 0:48:03.280 --> 0:48:06.040 of looks like a Tamu Kevin kin Like, he looks 0:48:06.080 --> 0:48:08.160 a little bit like Kevin Kine melting a little bit. 0:48:08.560 --> 0:48:10.640 And I was like, who is that? Te Ka? 0:48:10.760 --> 0:48:12.560 Because I thought to myself is that Kevin Kane and 0:48:12.640 --> 0:48:15.239 yet another role before he comes onto the show as 0:48:15.239 --> 0:48:18.800 a regular, but it's not. And then at the precinct, 0:48:18.960 --> 0:48:21.719 Now Live tells them, see if Taru can track down 0:48:22.239 --> 0:48:25.440 this guy from the video that he made, because he 0:48:25.560 --> 0:48:29.879 made a video of you know, Rollin's going please step back, guys, 0:48:29.920 --> 0:48:33.240 please step back or whatever. So meanwhile his sponsor, Javon sponsor, 0:48:33.280 --> 0:48:37.960 a corporate lawyer, thoroughly corroborates his story over speakerphone and 0:48:38.000 --> 0:48:40.600 says Javon's been diligently working his program, like I don't 0:48:40.600 --> 0:48:42.440 think he would jeopardize that, Like I don't see him 0:48:42.440 --> 0:48:45.000 committing these crimes, and they tell him he can go 0:48:45.080 --> 0:48:46.600 as soon as they get the eighty eight to drop 0:48:46.640 --> 0:48:49.719 the charges. Finn's like, one last question, we want to 0:48:49.760 --> 0:48:51.319 see if you can help us, if you know the 0:48:51.360 --> 0:48:53.600 guy who was with Eric, like the one who was 0:48:53.640 --> 0:48:55.560 filming at the scene of the arrest, and Javon's like, 0:48:55.600 --> 0:48:57.960 even if I did notice him, why would I help you, 0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:00.200 and lives like, I get it, you have a to 0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:02.000 be angry, and he goes, you don't have to tell me. 0:49:02.040 --> 0:49:03.120 I have a right to my anger. 0:49:03.239 --> 0:49:05.960 I know that, and then we cut to Rollins in 0:49:06.000 --> 0:49:08.680 the hospital church with Eric's mom and Rollins tells her 0:49:08.719 --> 0:49:10.480 it isn't the man from the video, and she does 0:49:10.520 --> 0:49:13.200 not recognize the white guy. Kat is showing the brother 0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:15.160 a picture of the white guy and she goes and 0:49:15.200 --> 0:49:17.799 he goes, well, that's Eric's type, like white preppy. He 0:49:17.880 --> 0:49:21.400 calls them his Chino boys, and he tells Kat about 0:49:21.400 --> 0:49:24.279 his brother and how he compartmentalized his life, like he 0:49:24.360 --> 0:49:26.200 kept his social life and his family and his work 0:49:26.239 --> 0:49:28.839 and everything very separate. So now at the precinct, we're 0:49:28.880 --> 0:49:31.360 seeing a video we saw earlier of Rollins telling people 0:49:31.400 --> 0:49:33.560 to move back, and it is titled hotty cop telling 0:49:33.640 --> 0:49:36.480 me to move We can No one can ever, just 0:49:36.560 --> 0:49:40.440 like not remind everyone like Rollin's is extremely hot. So 0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:44.400 then this guy films himself chanting defund the police, and 0:49:44.440 --> 0:49:47.120 there's no idea on this guy just to handle, which 0:49:47.160 --> 0:49:48.640 is thirst trap ninety four. 0:49:49.280 --> 0:49:52.480 So now they're all sitting around. Finn is wearing a mask. 0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:53.600 No one else's like. 0:49:53.640 --> 0:49:56.840 It's just really hilarious, Like people will just be wearing 0:49:56.880 --> 0:50:00.279 masks and then just take them off mid conversation, will 0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:02.759 show up one person wearing a mask. One's not like 0:50:03.040 --> 0:50:05.880 it's funny, like, I get it. They're all getting tested 0:50:05.920 --> 0:50:09.359 on this set. They're trying to I think they're trying 0:50:09.360 --> 0:50:11.040 to play the reality of New York City and not 0:50:11.120 --> 0:50:14.560 ignore the pandemic. But also, you can't show people on 0:50:14.600 --> 0:50:18.440 television not acting. We have to see their faces, you know. 0:50:19.400 --> 0:50:24.160 So they find a post of thirst Trap ninety four 0:50:24.200 --> 0:50:26.800 with some girls and there's three girls in the photo, 0:50:27.239 --> 0:50:29.680 and he goes track down the girl he didn't tag. 0:50:29.880 --> 0:50:33.200 She might have the more interesting story. Just then, Chief. 0:50:32.960 --> 0:50:35.759 Garland walks in. He needs to talk to Livi and 0:50:35.840 --> 0:50:39.440 Finn about Jaybon Brown. He's fa a lawsuit against NYPD 0:50:39.560 --> 0:50:40.840 and they've both been named. 0:50:41.560 --> 0:50:42.400 So now they're. 0:50:42.239 --> 0:50:45.240 Watching the footage live and Finn are like explaining their decisions, 0:50:45.239 --> 0:50:47.800 but Garland is like, shut it. You both sound defensive 0:50:47.800 --> 0:50:49.960 and that is not a good look these days, and 0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:52.879 liv says, we were by the book, and Garland yells, yeah, 0:50:52.880 --> 0:50:55.240 that's the book that got us here. He's like, after 0:50:55.280 --> 0:50:58.400 George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, the city, the whole country is 0:50:58.440 --> 0:51:02.200 on boil, and businesses usual doesn't fly. Lives like I 0:51:02.280 --> 0:51:04.160 hear you, and he goes, yeah, well, one PP has 0:51:04.200 --> 0:51:07.040 launched an investigation and iab is starting with you. We're 0:51:07.080 --> 0:51:10.680 under a microscope going there, give short answers, don't over explain, 0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:11.520 and bring a lawyer. 0:51:11.800 --> 0:51:13.399 Then he's like, Finn, walk me out. 0:51:13.760 --> 0:51:16.840 So Garland asks Finn, would things have played out differently 0:51:16.880 --> 0:51:20.040 if Jayvon were white? And he's like, yo, I don't 0:51:20.040 --> 0:51:22.799 think Live has a conscious bias. Her only bias is 0:51:22.840 --> 0:51:25.400 for victims, and like, you're not going to get me 0:51:25.440 --> 0:51:26.839 to say that my boss. So you're not gonna get 0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:28.680 me to turn on Live basically and say that she's 0:51:28.760 --> 0:51:31.719 racist or whatever. And Garland's like, I know we don't 0:51:31.719 --> 0:51:34.040 relate on a lot, but we're both black and blue. 0:51:34.239 --> 0:51:36.319 We've been on this job a long time. Did you 0:51:36.360 --> 0:51:38.279 know my father joined the force in the seventies and 0:51:38.280 --> 0:51:40.279 made sergeant, which is as far as we could go 0:51:40.320 --> 0:51:42.440 back then. But he's like, but things are changing, and 0:51:42.480 --> 0:51:44.759 Finn's like, yeah, I've heard that before. The only thing 0:51:44.800 --> 0:51:46.719 I know is this country will always break your heart. 0:51:46.840 --> 0:51:52.320 Finn says, tough stuff. Garland says, this time it's different. 0:51:52.360 --> 0:51:54.919 It's a true inflection point, I know it, And Finn 0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:58.120 is skeptical, and Garland says, but the old Guard is 0:51:58.120 --> 0:51:59.680 not going to go down without a fight, there's going 0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:02.520 to be a purge. And he says, I appreciate your loyalty, 0:52:02.560 --> 0:52:04.160 but you got to watch out for yourself. This is 0:52:04.200 --> 0:52:07.920 your second lawsuit this year, and he's referencing the episode 0:52:07.920 --> 0:52:10.960 Things we Have to Lose, which is from the previous season, 0:52:11.520 --> 0:52:15.640 and Finn ended up shooting this man in front of 0:52:15.680 --> 0:52:17.920 his kid because the guy had a gun. He'd already 0:52:18.000 --> 0:52:21.360 raped his wife and they were worried he could have 0:52:21.400 --> 0:52:23.120 done anything, and he wouldn't put the gun down. So 0:52:23.400 --> 0:52:26.000 it's of course we see the whole thing and it 0:52:26.000 --> 0:52:28.600 seems like a good shooting, and he's like, that was 0:52:28.640 --> 0:52:30.279 a good shooting, and he goes, yeah, but you shot 0:52:30.280 --> 0:52:32.200 a black man in his home. It was a good shooting. 0:52:32.239 --> 0:52:34.040 But it doesn't matter. None of us are safe, not me, 0:52:34.200 --> 0:52:37.240 not you, not Benson. So it's interesting because they're taking 0:52:37.280 --> 0:52:40.480 you behind not just what Finn and Garland feel as 0:52:40.560 --> 0:52:43.759 black men being on the forest, but also politically like 0:52:43.840 --> 0:52:46.320 are we going to be scapegoats? 0:52:46.960 --> 0:52:49.719 Well? Yeah, Like I have noticed that the people that 0:52:49.920 --> 0:52:54.160 usually the police that usually do get in trouble are 0:52:55.040 --> 0:52:57.839 the women, like the Republicans that usually get arrested are 0:52:57.880 --> 0:53:02.120 the black people, like it still falls in line even 0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:03.319 if you play the game with them. 0:53:03.760 --> 0:53:06.920 Yeah yeah, I mean Trump's mostly just fire when my 0:53:06.960 --> 0:53:10.120 women from his cabinet, Like he doesn't really fire these dudes. 0:53:11.040 --> 0:53:13.120 But so now Rollins and co. 0:53:13.280 --> 0:53:16.560 Are talking to the girl that thirst Trap ninety four untagged. 0:53:16.680 --> 0:53:19.000 I find it so crazy that they can't find this 0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:20.799 man's name, but they can find a girl in one 0:53:20.800 --> 0:53:23.839 of his photos who is untagged. But they found her. 0:53:24.440 --> 0:53:27.000 She says, the guy's name is Joe Murphy. We dated 0:53:27.040 --> 0:53:29.680 super briefly, and she goes, he needs to be canceled. 0:53:30.000 --> 0:53:31.960 And I feel like this is the show trying to 0:53:32.719 --> 0:53:35.319 shoehorn how cancel culture is a big thing happening at 0:53:35.360 --> 0:53:37.680 the time. Yeah, but it's a little bit random, Like 0:53:37.840 --> 0:53:40.200 a man named Joe Murphy doesn't get canceled like Kevin 0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:42.120 Spacey gets canceled, you know what I mean, Like you 0:53:42.120 --> 0:53:44.319 don't really get you can lose your job, you could 0:53:44.320 --> 0:53:46.879 get outcast from your community. It's like cancelation I think 0:53:46.960 --> 0:53:48.680 is usually people that are more high profile. 0:53:49.280 --> 0:53:52.080 Yeah, but it's kind of like what like it just 0:53:52.120 --> 0:53:54.759 gets co opted to mean like fake news means so 0:53:54.840 --> 0:53:56.160 many things, right. 0:53:56.080 --> 0:53:58.160 Exactly, it just gets like, oh, now, you guys are 0:53:58.200 --> 0:53:59.000 going to cancel me. 0:53:59.040 --> 0:54:00.840 Because of like I guess he can refer to some 0:54:01.520 --> 0:54:04.719 comics getting canceled who aren't even a big deal because 0:54:04.719 --> 0:54:05.880 they don't get to play anymore. 0:54:05.920 --> 0:54:09.040 Clubs like won't hire them anymore. Whatever. But does that 0:54:09.080 --> 0:54:10.520 ever happen again? Barely? 0:54:11.480 --> 0:54:13.600 So she says, yeah, he untagged me because I broke 0:54:13.680 --> 0:54:14.880 up with him and he couldn't handle it. 0:54:14.920 --> 0:54:16.200 He was a charmer, but he changed. 0:54:16.200 --> 0:54:20.440 He really changed when he hit the Tequila Turnpike and 0:54:20.880 --> 0:54:23.560 she was like, yeah, basically he couldn't get it up, 0:54:23.600 --> 0:54:25.600 and then he'd go off on me. He'd apologize the 0:54:25.600 --> 0:54:28.360 next day with flowers. It was just like getting exhausting 0:54:28.440 --> 0:54:30.319 after a while. Twenty five years, I should have known. 0:54:30.360 --> 0:54:32.560 He's twenty five and still lives with his mom, which 0:54:32.600 --> 0:54:34.239 is funny because I feel like people live with their 0:54:34.239 --> 0:54:37.000 moms way longer than twenty five now. I was living 0:54:37.000 --> 0:54:39.880 with my parents when I was twenty three, and. 0:54:40.600 --> 0:54:43.480 Which is also such an American thing, like people live 0:54:43.520 --> 0:54:45.640 with their families all over the world very. 0:54:45.520 --> 0:54:47.480 Long time totally. 0:54:47.719 --> 0:54:49.440 When I lived in Italy, my Italian friends were in 0:54:49.520 --> 0:54:51.680 their thirties and all lived with their parents, every single one, 0:54:51.760 --> 0:54:53.080 not one of them have their own apartment. 0:54:53.239 --> 0:54:56.600 Yeah, we really let capitalism and rich guys really fuck 0:54:56.680 --> 0:54:57.360 up our lives. 0:54:57.560 --> 0:54:59.040 Yeah, in such. 0:54:58.920 --> 0:55:02.680 Huge ways, because I'm thinking about high you know, when 0:55:02.680 --> 0:55:05.360 I was in Texas, it's like everything's with a fucking highway, 0:55:05.560 --> 0:55:06.799 you know, like if they're just. 0:55:08.920 --> 0:55:10.440 Some more walk couple cities. 0:55:10.880 --> 0:55:14.120 And then I it like it, you end up sounding 0:55:14.120 --> 0:55:16.160 like a crazy person when you start talking about any 0:55:16.200 --> 0:55:18.840 one issue because it all is so interconnected. 0:55:18.960 --> 0:55:21.319 It's like fucked and it all does boil down to 0:55:21.480 --> 0:55:25.680 just like money, money, yes, and don't. 0:55:25.719 --> 0:55:30.200 I mean I've been like on a real democratic socialist 0:55:30.280 --> 0:55:33.120 tip lately where I'm like, I think all of our 0:55:33.160 --> 0:55:37.400 problems essentially stem from the wealth inequality gap and we 0:55:37.440 --> 0:55:39.640 should have been doing something about this a long fucking 0:55:39.640 --> 0:55:46.160 time ago. But uh this so now, okay, we know 0:55:46.239 --> 0:55:48.000 this guy's twenty five, lives with his mom, and his 0:55:48.080 --> 0:55:50.560 name's Joe Murphy. So now we're at Burnetette Murphy's apartment. 0:55:50.880 --> 0:55:53.239 She opens the door, seeming a little groggy. It never 0:55:53.239 --> 0:55:55.360 gets addressed, but she seems a little wasted to me, like, 0:55:55.400 --> 0:55:57.600 I can't tell they asked to speak with Joe, and 0:55:57.640 --> 0:56:00.000 she goes, I don't think he's home. He's literally walked 0:56:00.200 --> 0:56:02.960 right behind her like she doesn't even like chat say, 0:56:03.239 --> 0:56:06.040 and he goes, mom, I'm right here, and then he goes, hey, 0:56:06.160 --> 0:56:09.640 blondie cop to Rollins, hope you're not upset about my video. 0:56:09.760 --> 0:56:11.919 He goes, I know I was all BLM in the park, 0:56:11.960 --> 0:56:14.520 but really, you cops didn't do anything wrong, Like you 0:56:14.640 --> 0:56:16.840 just sort of hate this guy immediately he's got a 0:56:16.960 --> 0:56:20.600 very punishable face. But also so you're at a thing 0:56:20.840 --> 0:56:23.719 chanting BLM, posting videos about bad cops. But then the 0:56:23.760 --> 0:56:26.120 minute the cops show up, you're like totally boot licking 0:56:26.200 --> 0:56:28.479 and like, actually, I love you guys, like cops rule. 0:56:29.040 --> 0:56:31.479 So that's the sky in a nutshell right up top. 0:56:31.880 --> 0:56:34.160 And then he goes, yeah, I heard that thug is 0:56:34.160 --> 0:56:37.280 filing a lawsuit. And it's like why is he a thug, 0:56:37.560 --> 0:56:40.640 like because he's a black man. And then she goes jut, 0:56:40.680 --> 0:56:42.040 he goes, jud need me to back you up, and 0:56:42.160 --> 0:56:44.400 Rollins is like, step aside, losers. I know how to 0:56:44.600 --> 0:56:48.600 handle like these horny freaks, and. 0:56:47.960 --> 0:56:49.640 She goes, yeah, actually we do. 0:56:49.719 --> 0:56:51.160 It would be so great if you could come down 0:56:51.160 --> 0:56:53.520 to the station and give us a statement, like Hatty 0:56:53.560 --> 0:56:57.120 blonde cop would love to see you down there. So 0:56:57.239 --> 0:57:00.400 at the precinct, there's scheming ways to get to give 0:57:00.480 --> 0:57:03.520 up his DNA because they did find some DNA on 0:57:03.880 --> 0:57:07.799 eric A Keino, and they're scheming on ways to get 0:57:07.840 --> 0:57:09.200 him to give up a DNA, and then Finn goes 0:57:09.320 --> 0:57:11.239 check it out. He's wearing a mask, and Kat goes, ooh, 0:57:11.280 --> 0:57:13.879 I'll get him a fresh one. Masks are the new 0:57:13.920 --> 0:57:17.000 coke cans. Everybody watch out, and Benson has to go 0:57:17.040 --> 0:57:19.960 to IAB. She asks Finn, did Garland say anything about 0:57:19.960 --> 0:57:21.840 me to you? And he goes, yeah, watch your back, 0:57:22.360 --> 0:57:24.840 and so Kat gives a guy, the guy a filtered 0:57:24.880 --> 0:57:28.360 mask and goes, it's it's NYPD protocol. Even though none 0:57:28.400 --> 0:57:29.919 of us are really wearing a mask right now, would 0:57:29.920 --> 0:57:31.400 it be okay if you wore a filtered mask and 0:57:31.440 --> 0:57:34.600 we took your old one? And it's, like I wrote, 0:57:34.640 --> 0:57:37.760 literally everyone is wearing masks at random at three minute intervals, 0:57:37.840 --> 0:57:40.000 So it's funny to me that she's like, we have protocol. 0:57:40.400 --> 0:57:43.720 So then she takes the old one. Boom, They've got DNA. 0:57:43.840 --> 0:57:45.920 So now they're asking him some questions. He's like, I 0:57:45.960 --> 0:57:48.640 don't know. Javon I don't know Eric, and then Rollin 0:57:48.680 --> 0:57:50.360 shows him the picture of him and Eric walking down. 0:57:50.400 --> 0:57:52.960 He's like, wait, I thought you guys. He goes, oh wait, 0:57:53.080 --> 0:57:56.680 that's him. I didn't put two and two together. So 0:57:56.840 --> 0:57:58.800 you two didn't have drinks together at this bar to 0:57:58.840 --> 0:58:00.919 a last call and he goes, no, no, it's not like that, 0:58:01.400 --> 0:58:04.160 and then he pulls his mask down. The protocol does 0:58:04.200 --> 0:58:07.439 not matter anymore and he goes, the guy followed me out. 0:58:07.480 --> 0:58:09.080 He was kind of hitting on me. I didn't want 0:58:09.120 --> 0:58:11.360 to be rude. So they're like, so you walked with 0:58:11.440 --> 0:58:13.080 him into the park and he goes, dude, do I 0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:13.600 look gay. 0:58:13.680 --> 0:58:14.400 I'm engaged. 0:58:14.440 --> 0:58:16.720 I went right to my fiance's place around four thirty 0:58:16.800 --> 0:58:18.800 or five, So then how did you end up back 0:58:18.800 --> 0:58:20.720 in the park at seven am? And he goes, oh, well, 0:58:20.760 --> 0:58:23.520 Ashley lives nearby. I heard all the sirens and I 0:58:23.560 --> 0:58:25.960 went to check it out. So they need to talk 0:58:25.960 --> 0:58:27.919 to Ashley. He goes, great, I'll call her, and Finn goes, 0:58:28.000 --> 0:58:29.720 we'll handle that, and he looks a little bit like, 0:58:29.760 --> 0:58:31.120 oh fuck, I'm not going to be able to give 0:58:31.160 --> 0:58:35.240 my quote unquote girlfriend fiance a heads up. So now 0:58:35.280 --> 0:58:38.520 at this iab meeting in walks Captain Curry. This is 0:58:38.520 --> 0:58:41.480 our first introduction to Captain Curry, who is still on 0:58:41.520 --> 0:58:44.920 the show. And she tells Benson, oh, we've actually she 0:58:45.000 --> 0:58:47.000 knows Benson and is like, we actually met briefly at 0:58:47.120 --> 0:58:50.560 Ed Tucker's funeral, and Benson doesn't really remember. 0:58:50.400 --> 0:58:51.959 Because the love of her life had just died. 0:58:52.400 --> 0:58:55.520 My words, not hers, but Curry was like, yeah, that 0:58:55.560 --> 0:58:56.800 was a really tough day for me too. 0:58:56.840 --> 0:58:57.920 Tucker was my rabbi. 0:58:58.360 --> 0:59:01.120 And she goes his poor wife, and that stings Benson 0:59:01.160 --> 0:59:03.760 for a second. She's like, oo, I forgot there was 0:59:03.800 --> 0:59:07.720 another lady in his life. And Benson has passed on 0:59:07.760 --> 0:59:10.439 a lawyer. She did not bring a lawyer. She goes, 0:59:10.520 --> 0:59:13.000 I know my conduct was by the book. So now 0:59:13.000 --> 0:59:15.400 at the precinct, Coreesy notices that Joe Murphy is dead 0:59:15.400 --> 0:59:18.600 asleep in interrogation. He goes, oh, good, that means he's guilty. 0:59:19.080 --> 0:59:22.640 And I forgot that. Guys that sleep are just so. 0:59:22.800 --> 0:59:29.200 Cocky, cocky, relaxed, Like you're so relaxed you're sleeping. But 0:59:29.320 --> 0:59:32.000 isn't that because if you're innocent maybe, or if you're innocent, 0:59:32.040 --> 0:59:33.960 you're relaxed. I actually don't remember and this could be 0:59:34.000 --> 0:59:35.640 one of those things that go back and forth depending 0:59:35.640 --> 0:59:37.880 on what they need in the moment, because I. 0:59:37.840 --> 0:59:40.520 Think if you're innocent, you're freaking out because you're like, 0:59:40.640 --> 0:59:42.600 I didn't do anything, and it feels like no one's 0:59:42.600 --> 0:59:46.280 listening to you. Yeah, but if you're guilty, maybe you 0:59:46.360 --> 0:59:48.240 just like honestly have to keep your breath control so 0:59:48.280 --> 0:59:48.600 you can. 0:59:48.520 --> 0:59:49.840 Beat a light detector or whatever. 0:59:51.200 --> 0:59:54.600 Rollins says, Yeah, the guy's alibi's bogus and we're still 0:59:54.640 --> 0:59:55.440 waiting on DNA. 0:59:55.760 --> 0:59:56.920 But he doesn't need to know that. 0:59:57.360 --> 0:59:58.960 So they wake this guy up from his nap and 0:59:58.960 --> 1:00:01.120 they bluffed him about how they're running the DNA and 1:00:01.160 --> 1:00:03.240 they think it's going to match the DNA on a keno. 1:00:03.560 --> 1:00:05.560 It's not really a bluff, that's like actually what they're doing, 1:00:05.560 --> 1:00:08.320 Like that's what they're doing. And he goes, oh, okay, 1:00:08.960 --> 1:00:11.280 I left this out. He asked me to smoke a 1:00:11.360 --> 1:00:14.360 joint in the park. I'm drunk, and so I go 1:00:14.400 --> 1:00:18.240 with him. Then he gets persuasive. He closes, He says, 1:00:18.280 --> 1:00:20.080 close your eyes, pretend I'm a girl. I'm going to 1:00:20.120 --> 1:00:22.080 give you the best blow job of your life. And 1:00:22.120 --> 1:00:24.400 then he started to unzip me but I said I'm 1:00:24.400 --> 1:00:25.840 not gay, and I pushed him off of me and 1:00:25.840 --> 1:00:27.480 I ran and they're like, well, did you push him hard? 1:00:27.480 --> 1:00:29.720 And he goes, no, not hard. When I looked back, 1:00:29.760 --> 1:00:32.200 he was chasing me. He must have taken a fall, 1:00:32.240 --> 1:00:34.240 and they're like, well, did you see that happen? And 1:00:34.280 --> 1:00:37.960 then suddenly a lawyer comes in with caresy and they're. 1:00:37.760 --> 1:00:39.560 Like, he goes Joe's lawy is he? 1:00:40.000 --> 1:00:43.040 And it's Ron Frado who we just met in murdered 1:00:43.040 --> 1:00:45.480 at a bad address and he basically does to say 1:00:45.560 --> 1:00:47.240 hi to you mother for me to Careesy, but he 1:00:47.240 --> 1:00:50.040 says say hi to he assisted Teresa. We have no 1:00:50.120 --> 1:00:53.720 idea why he knows Teresa. But this guy knows the 1:00:53.760 --> 1:00:58.520 cares family somehow. Nylam, Yeah, yeah he was. He was 1:00:58.760 --> 1:01:02.840 defending the guy that wasn't the actual criminal and murdered 1:01:02.840 --> 1:01:08.120 at a bad address, I think anyway, And it turns 1:01:08.280 --> 1:01:12.560 out the lawyer was hired by the Irish owner of 1:01:12.640 --> 1:01:17.560 the bar. He's looking out for Joe and Joe's mom. 1:01:17.680 --> 1:01:19.360 So maybe I was right and the mom is a 1:01:19.440 --> 1:01:22.240 drunk and she was married or having an affair or 1:01:22.240 --> 1:01:25.000 something or relationship with this bar owner and now the 1:01:25.040 --> 1:01:28.120 bar owner is going to bail out her son. Okay, 1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:30.960 why getting him a lawyer? He goes, yeah, he's loyal. 1:01:31.040 --> 1:01:33.560 I drink for free every night. And this guy's just gross, 1:01:33.560 --> 1:01:37.120 like he's acting like we're talking about somebody getting assaulted. 1:01:37.280 --> 1:01:40.320 If you're innocent, you should be trying to prove your innocence. 1:01:40.360 --> 1:01:43.400 If you're guilty, which you are, you're bragging about how 1:01:43.400 --> 1:01:46.040 you get free drinks of it. And he has what 1:01:46.080 --> 1:01:50.439 my dad always called a shit eating grin. And back 1:01:50.480 --> 1:01:53.640 to Curry and Benson's little chat. Benson is explaining that 1:01:53.760 --> 1:01:57.560 Javon was already under arrest when she arrived. He wouldn't cooperate. 1:01:57.800 --> 1:01:59.880 She was trying to clear him as a suspect. And 1:02:00.120 --> 1:02:02.720 Curry's like, so, had you ever met Jayvon before? And 1:02:02.720 --> 1:02:05.480 Benson goes not to my knowledge. Curry brings up a 1:02:05.520 --> 1:02:10.000 stop and frisk from twenty thirteen outside the Wagner houses. 1:02:10.600 --> 1:02:13.600 Nicko Morrow filed the two fifty and this is a 1:02:13.640 --> 1:02:16.400 reference to the Civil Shepherd episode where a white woman 1:02:16.600 --> 1:02:18.520 This is based on Trayvon Martin where a white woman 1:02:18.560 --> 1:02:21.320 shoots this innocent black man. And then one of the 1:02:21.320 --> 1:02:23.360 men that you and your partner stopped and frisks that 1:02:23.480 --> 1:02:26.760 day was Javon Brown. So Benson's like, well, he must 1:02:26.760 --> 1:02:28.800 have fit the profile. We were pursuing a black male 1:02:28.880 --> 1:02:34.320 serial rapist. And what about yesterday? Benson explains herself again, 1:02:34.800 --> 1:02:37.280 and then she's like, well, did you officers run Colleen 1:02:37.320 --> 1:02:41.160 Reynolds's name, And Benson's like no, and she goes, well, 1:02:41.200 --> 1:02:43.320 if you had, you would find out that Colleen has 1:02:43.320 --> 1:02:46.960 a history of false allegations and accusations and her ex 1:02:47.000 --> 1:02:50.400 has a restraining order against her, and Benson's like, oh, 1:02:50.880 --> 1:02:51.640 my bad. 1:02:51.880 --> 1:02:52.160 I know. 1:02:52.880 --> 1:02:54.960 Benson's like, my bad, I should have done that, Like 1:02:55.000 --> 1:02:57.880 that is a mistake, and Curry wants to know if 1:02:57.920 --> 1:03:01.080 Benson has considered why she made them mist and Benson's like, 1:03:01.640 --> 1:03:04.960 I'm not biased. I'm well aware of false accusations against 1:03:04.960 --> 1:03:07.720 men of color, and then Curry turns off the recorder 1:03:07.760 --> 1:03:10.000 and goes, I'm gonna stop you here before you tell 1:03:10.000 --> 1:03:13.000 me you're an ally. I think this whole conversation is 1:03:13.120 --> 1:03:16.920 really good and like should have been like nominated for something. 1:03:17.080 --> 1:03:19.360 I think this is like a really I think Curry 1:03:19.480 --> 1:03:22.400 is doing great acting, Benson's doing great acting. I think 1:03:22.440 --> 1:03:24.160 this is a really good scene and. 1:03:24.200 --> 1:03:27.360 The conversation is important because that's the whole thing. 1:03:27.400 --> 1:03:30.280 It's like unchecked bias. It's a carcass bias. 1:03:30.320 --> 1:03:34.360 It's like these biases exist within us, like like it's 1:03:34.360 --> 1:03:37.320 not even propagat Like society influences you, like the people 1:03:37.320 --> 1:03:41.520 around you influence you, like hello, advertising works on you. You're 1:03:41.440 --> 1:03:44.720 fucking brand loyal for no fucking reason, knowing that Johnson 1:03:44.760 --> 1:03:47.040 and Johnson owns all the competitors too, you know what 1:03:47.120 --> 1:03:49.800 I mean. And it's like we are just influenced all 1:03:49.840 --> 1:03:52.200 the time. I'm sure there's psychologists that do it. And 1:03:52.240 --> 1:03:54.640 so to think that you're like above it and can't 1:03:54.680 --> 1:03:57.520 see it, well, that's annoying. 1:03:57.840 --> 1:04:01.000 That's I think what everybody at this time period with 1:04:01.040 --> 1:04:03.280 these books that are coming out like how to be 1:04:03.560 --> 1:04:07.360 not just say I'm not racist, but to be anti racist, 1:04:07.440 --> 1:04:09.600 you know, or like these books like we need to 1:04:09.600 --> 1:04:11.960 talk about race about like people are like, well, I'm 1:04:11.960 --> 1:04:15.680 not racist, but completely unwilling to look inward at Wait 1:04:15.720 --> 1:04:17.680 why did I say that or think that? Like why 1:04:17.680 --> 1:04:20.040 do I have that opinion about this when like you're 1:04:20.040 --> 1:04:23.640 not interrogating your inner biases, which everybody does have. So, 1:04:23.720 --> 1:04:27.440 she Curry says, ever since George Floyd. I've taken so 1:04:27.560 --> 1:04:30.560 many statements from two kinds of cops, but to this 1:04:30.600 --> 1:04:33.000 is where the title of the episode comes in. But 1:04:33.120 --> 1:04:36.000 Tom swinging gladiators who take one look at me and 1:04:36.040 --> 1:04:39.280 can barely hide their disdain and the well intentioned guardian 1:04:39.360 --> 1:04:41.840 cops who don't see themselves as racist but are in 1:04:41.880 --> 1:04:45.600 denial about their complicity in the systemic racism within the NYPD. 1:04:46.160 --> 1:04:49.080 And Benson's like, well, I definitely know there's racism in 1:04:49.120 --> 1:04:53.200 the NYPD. Curry's like, what about your own bias? And 1:04:53.240 --> 1:04:56.760 She's like, I'm not racist, and then Curry goes, I'm 1:04:56.800 --> 1:05:00.360 sure you're not explicitly, but what about implicitly? If you 1:05:00.400 --> 1:05:02.760 grew up in this country, it's in you and me, 1:05:02.920 --> 1:05:05.760 she says, she goes, I struggle every day with my biases. 1:05:06.160 --> 1:05:09.640 For too many people, law enforcement has lost credibility, and 1:05:09.720 --> 1:05:12.360 until we take a serious self inventory, we can't begin 1:05:12.440 --> 1:05:13.080 to get it back. 1:05:13.680 --> 1:05:15.880 Sing it. I mean, I think that's totally true. 1:05:16.800 --> 1:05:21.080 Roin's because it's like this show has made Olivia Benson 1:05:21.320 --> 1:05:23.240 like very perfect for a really long time. I think 1:05:23.240 --> 1:05:26.080 it's great to give her like this very little bit 1:05:26.120 --> 1:05:29.720 of human fallibility, which is something we all have, and 1:05:29.880 --> 1:05:31.240 we all have implicit biases. 1:05:31.320 --> 1:05:33.320 So now rollin's increase. 1:05:33.320 --> 1:05:35.400 Here an interrogation with Joe Murphy and his lawyer who's 1:05:35.400 --> 1:05:37.720 trying some bullshit now about how his client was lured 1:05:37.760 --> 1:05:40.680 to the park and a kino became sexually aggressive, so 1:05:40.760 --> 1:05:43.360 then why is he the one in the ICU And 1:05:43.440 --> 1:05:46.400 the lawyer goes, sometimes things go wrong when drugs, alcohol 1:05:46.440 --> 1:05:49.680 and misplaced passion or involved Coriese's had enough, he goes, 1:05:49.720 --> 1:05:51.760 you want to try that bullshit, sell that bullshit to 1:05:51.760 --> 1:05:54.560 a jury. You go right ahead, book him attempted murder, 1:05:54.600 --> 1:05:58.280 assault one and criminal sexual act. And the lawyer is like, uh, 1:05:58.520 --> 1:06:02.480 hold up, hold up, Joe would be to consider misdemeanor assault, 1:06:02.680 --> 1:06:06.480 and Carisy's like, a kino has bruising trauma and your 1:06:06.520 --> 1:06:08.920 client's DNA and his underwear, and the lawyer's like, that 1:06:08.960 --> 1:06:13.600 can happen from consensual sex. But just like last week's episode, 1:06:13.600 --> 1:06:20.920 we have a deeply like either biphobic or homophobic person 1:06:21.120 --> 1:06:24.960 with internalized homophobia. Because he's like, even though it's like 1:06:24.960 --> 1:06:26.440 his lawyers are just trying to get him out of this, 1:06:27.120 --> 1:06:30.280 and he's like, oh, consensual, no way, I'm like there's 1:06:30.360 --> 1:06:32.160 no way. He's like, so self hating, you can't even 1:06:32.200 --> 1:06:35.040 have people consider that he wanted this interaction. And he's like, 1:06:35.040 --> 1:06:37.320 the guy forced himself on me. So before the lawyer 1:06:37.360 --> 1:06:38.960 can tell his client to shut the fuck up, they 1:06:39.080 --> 1:06:39.600 arrest him. 1:06:39.800 --> 1:06:41.320 Fred. It's like, yeah, good luck in court. 1:06:41.360 --> 1:06:43.320 We've got that viral video of your cops arresting an 1:06:43.360 --> 1:06:45.600 innocent guy and you don't even have a complaint at 1:06:45.600 --> 1:06:48.960 you're vixen. A coma cuts to Benson getting into an 1:06:49.040 --> 1:06:52.040 suv with Garland and he wants an update on the case. 1:06:52.040 --> 1:06:53.880 She fills him in and then he says it might 1:06:53.920 --> 1:06:56.160 be better if Finn testifies at the grand jury, and 1:06:56.240 --> 1:06:59.160 she says, rather than a white woman, And he's like, yeah, well, 1:06:59.160 --> 1:07:02.680 how did the iab in go? And she talks about 1:07:02.720 --> 1:07:05.720 how she's been stressed out thinking about how she handled it, 1:07:05.960 --> 1:07:08.000 thinking about what she missed, and how she focuses on 1:07:08.040 --> 1:07:10.800 the victims, and that her own biases are a blind 1:07:10.800 --> 1:07:14.080 spot and they do they affect her choices and decisions, 1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:17.280 and Garland says it's a level of community outrage like 1:07:17.320 --> 1:07:20.680 a freight train coming one pp senses it too, and 1:07:20.720 --> 1:07:24.480 I'm worried they're interested in the optics more than actual change, 1:07:24.840 --> 1:07:26.560 and he knows that they're going to sacrifice a few 1:07:26.600 --> 1:07:29.640 scapegoats without hesitation, and that's why he told Finn that 1:07:29.680 --> 1:07:33.800 they should both watch their asses, you know, because a 1:07:33.800 --> 1:07:37.480 lot of times it's like corporations, institutions will just be like, 1:07:37.760 --> 1:07:40.080 we fired this one guy. Problem is solved, and it's 1:07:40.120 --> 1:07:44.760 like just full scapegoats. And so now in court, nurse 1:07:44.880 --> 1:07:49.240 Rudy Sindegard is on the stand testifying that Ericaquino, doctor 1:07:49.360 --> 1:07:53.160 Eric Aquino is a selfless, gentle soul and his head 1:07:53.160 --> 1:07:55.680 wound was so severe that he still hasn't regained consciousness 1:07:55.720 --> 1:07:58.640 and he had anal trauma consistent with sexual assault. Finn 1:07:58.640 --> 1:08:01.720 testifies that the DNA. Now Finn's on the stand, and 1:08:01.720 --> 1:08:03.680 Finn testifies that the DNA was a match to Joe 1:08:03.760 --> 1:08:05.640 Murphy and describes how they found a knot. 1:08:06.320 --> 1:08:09.520 Then a woman in the grand jury goes, I want 1:08:09.520 --> 1:08:11.600 to ask a question. Can I ask a question? 1:08:11.640 --> 1:08:13.880 And Chrisy goes, oh, you can ask me, and then 1:08:13.920 --> 1:08:15.920 I'll ask and the woman goes, I'll just ask it. 1:08:16.439 --> 1:08:19.559 And I have never seen this before. It's like an 1:08:19.560 --> 1:08:23.240 episode of Jerry Springer. This yes, this grand jury is wild. 1:08:23.880 --> 1:08:26.880 I know, like there's I've seen in regular trials where 1:08:26.880 --> 1:08:28.960 it's like the jury has some questions and they asked 1:08:28.960 --> 1:08:30.000 through the foreman or whatever. 1:08:30.160 --> 1:08:32.000 But this is just people raising their damn hands. 1:08:32.200 --> 1:08:34.679 And they're in the courtroom with like these weird random 1:08:34.720 --> 1:08:37.160 partitions of glass for the COVID, and you know, people 1:08:37.160 --> 1:08:40.559 have their masks half on, half off, whatever. And this 1:08:40.600 --> 1:08:44.200 woman goes, I want to know if the victim identified 1:08:44.200 --> 1:08:47.880 his attacker and he didn't, And they said, well, then 1:08:47.920 --> 1:08:50.360 why did you all arrest Javon Brown? At first you 1:08:50.400 --> 1:08:52.599 assumed it was a black man just because he was there. 1:08:52.640 --> 1:08:54.679 And this woman that's asking the question is a black woman. 1:08:55.160 --> 1:08:59.479 And another woman stands up, a blonde woman, a blonde 1:08:59.520 --> 1:09:02.280 white lady, and goes, so why should we believe you now? 1:09:02.320 --> 1:09:04.040 And Careese tries to get them to like rain in 1:09:04.080 --> 1:09:06.000 the questions, but Blondie is just keeps at it. 1:09:06.400 --> 1:09:08.360 She's like, Javon was only arrested because of that. 1:09:08.479 --> 1:09:11.760 Karen and Finn says it was standard police procedure, and 1:09:11.760 --> 1:09:15.160 then Blondie goes she knows all about Finn's life. She goes, oh, 1:09:15.240 --> 1:09:17.360 the same standard procedure you use when you shot that 1:09:17.400 --> 1:09:20.920 boy's father, another black man shot in the projects, so 1:09:21.320 --> 1:09:25.240 she's clearly been following along closely, and Finn is like 1:09:25.400 --> 1:09:28.439 not popping off even though he could. He's not defending. 1:09:28.560 --> 1:09:31.160 I'm selling with his own shit. He is all this guilt. 1:09:31.200 --> 1:09:32.519 He doesn't want to be up again. 1:09:33.400 --> 1:09:36.560 And then suddenly people, three other hands shoot up in 1:09:36.600 --> 1:09:38.080 the room, So now it's like, what is this a 1:09:38.080 --> 1:09:40.120 fucking press conference? Now Finn has to answer all these 1:09:40.200 --> 1:09:43.680 questions from people. So now outside court, Cariese's freaking out. 1:09:43.720 --> 1:09:45.759 He's like, this is a train wreck. I lost control 1:09:45.800 --> 1:09:48.519 of the grand jury. And Finn's like, it wasn't my 1:09:48.600 --> 1:09:50.920 idea to testify, and Crisy's like, oh, so do you 1:09:51.000 --> 1:09:52.920 not agree with how Javon's arrest went. And thing goes, 1:09:52.960 --> 1:09:54.360 I didn't say that, and they're like, well that's what 1:09:54.400 --> 1:09:56.519 the jury heard, he says. He goes, they're looking for 1:09:56.600 --> 1:09:58.680 reasons not to trust the cops right now, and when 1:09:58.720 --> 1:10:01.240 you get in there and testify like you're being held hostage, 1:10:01.240 --> 1:10:03.759 it doesn't help me get an indictment. And then Rollins 1:10:03.800 --> 1:10:05.760 is trying to defend Finn, like, sorry, we didn't have 1:10:05.800 --> 1:10:07.760 this case all wrapped up neat in a bow for you, 1:10:07.800 --> 1:10:10.400 and Carisy goes, no, if Finn would have told me 1:10:10.479 --> 1:10:13.120 that he had second thoughts about how Javon's arrest went down, 1:10:13.439 --> 1:10:15.840 and Finn goes, maybe you should know, after all your 1:10:15.920 --> 1:10:18.200 years as a cop, you never saw black cops stand 1:10:18.240 --> 1:10:21.000 back during a stop and frisk. And Christy goes, what's 1:10:21.040 --> 1:10:22.840 this have to do with me? And Finn goes, I 1:10:22.840 --> 1:10:24.840 don't know. You take the cop out of Satin Island 1:10:24.840 --> 1:10:27.920 and Christy goes, you call me racist, and Rollins has 1:10:27.920 --> 1:10:30.400 to break the shit up. And then Fredo shows up 1:10:30.439 --> 1:10:33.559 at that time, smug saying, you know what, Joe Murphy 1:10:33.560 --> 1:10:36.320 has decided to testify, and they're like, well knows he 1:10:36.360 --> 1:10:38.439 waves his immunity right, I don't know why he would 1:10:38.439 --> 1:10:43.320 have even had immunity, but if he's gonna testify, Fredo goes, 1:10:43.439 --> 1:10:46.679 buckle up, Sonny. So why is the purp walking into 1:10:46.720 --> 1:10:52.000 a grand jury? That's suspicious, that's weird. So now they're 1:10:52.000 --> 1:10:54.479 freaking out. Carisey's like they're rolling the dice that I 1:10:54.479 --> 1:10:57.320 won't get this indictment like shit, Like already things are 1:10:57.320 --> 1:10:59.360 going bad and now I can tell everyone thinks I'm 1:10:59.360 --> 1:11:02.720 gonna lose this. So now we're back from commercial break 1:11:02.720 --> 1:11:04.760 and this little freak is on the stand and he 1:11:04.800 --> 1:11:06.960 admits to lying to the police. He says he met 1:11:06.960 --> 1:11:09.000 a Chino at a bar, they walked into the park together. 1:11:09.240 --> 1:11:11.040 He also said he lied about what happened there. This 1:11:11.080 --> 1:11:14.920 isn't easy for him. They were drunk high, he initiated 1:11:14.920 --> 1:11:18.320 a sexual encounter, which you also lied about, Careesy reminds him, 1:11:18.320 --> 1:11:19.760 and he goes, I was ashamed. I didn't want my 1:11:19.760 --> 1:11:21.920 fiance or my mom to find out that I'm by 1:11:22.600 --> 1:11:25.799 and Careese so subtly, sarcastic goes, I appreciate your bravery 1:11:25.840 --> 1:11:28.240 and coming out here. Come in outing yourself here today, 1:11:28.439 --> 1:11:31.479 But tell us what happened afterwards. Joe's like, nothing happened. 1:11:31.479 --> 1:11:33.120 I zipped up and went home to my fiance. I 1:11:33.200 --> 1:11:35.320 have no clue what happened to Eric after that, and 1:11:35.360 --> 1:11:37.719 he goes, didn't you tell detectives that Eric got aggressive 1:11:37.720 --> 1:11:38.639 and you pushed him off? 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:40.200 So you lied about that as well. 1:11:40.240 --> 1:11:41.600 And He's like, I was just telling you what you 1:11:41.640 --> 1:11:43.760 wanted to hear, and Carisee goes, it sounds like you're 1:11:43.800 --> 1:11:45.720 admitting what you can't deny and denying what you can't 1:11:45.720 --> 1:11:52.360 admit love that phrase. Great great little, great little ism there, Careesy, 1:11:52.760 --> 1:11:54.639 and he goes, so why should we believe you now? 1:11:55.120 --> 1:11:56.400 And then he drops the bomb. 1:11:56.439 --> 1:11:59.880 He goes, my confession was coerced one of the cops 1:11:59.880 --> 1:12:02.280 to me. They were mad at me for filming Javon's arrest, 1:12:02.320 --> 1:12:03.800 and I was going to take the fall for it. 1:12:04.200 --> 1:12:06.439 So even though Eric Aquino is in a coma, a 1:12:06.520 --> 1:12:09.160 victim of rape and assault, you're the victim here, Careese says, 1:12:09.320 --> 1:12:13.559 and Joe goes, no, we're all victims here, Eric, Javon, 1:12:13.840 --> 1:12:16.880 and me. Careese cuts him off. But some random grand 1:12:16.920 --> 1:12:19.719 jury member is like, excuse me, let the man finish again. 1:12:19.920 --> 1:12:21.960 Didn't know you could just pop in and tell the 1:12:21.960 --> 1:12:26.480 prosecutor to shut up, So again I so. Then Joe continues, 1:12:26.960 --> 1:12:29.360 I'm horrified what happened to Eric, But I did not 1:12:29.520 --> 1:12:33.360 hurt him, and that's why he came in here to testify, 1:12:33.400 --> 1:12:35.120 even though his lawyer advised him not to. 1:12:35.640 --> 1:12:37.280 The cops are lying to you. 1:12:37.680 --> 1:12:43.120 I'm not like he's basically peddling on the national sentiment 1:12:43.360 --> 1:12:47.360 of cop distrust right now to get away with a 1:12:47.400 --> 1:12:50.880 crime that he committed. So that night, Rollins goes to 1:12:50.960 --> 1:12:54.360 Caris's office. The grand jury has been out for a 1:12:54.360 --> 1:12:56.519 few hours and for a grand jury, that's a lifetime 1:12:56.600 --> 1:12:58.160 Caresee says he's pissed. 1:12:58.200 --> 1:12:59.439 He goes to Skylight and. 1:12:59.400 --> 1:13:02.120 He played the jury and the more I want he 1:13:02.200 --> 1:13:04.200 knew exactly what to do. The more I went after Joe, 1:13:04.240 --> 1:13:06.880 the more the jury sympathize with him. They're just also 1:13:06.920 --> 1:13:09.360 mad at the NYPD. They want to punish us, and 1:13:09.400 --> 1:13:10.720 then Fredo shows. 1:13:10.520 --> 1:13:14.160 Up to break them swear it's like, you know, they're 1:13:14.200 --> 1:13:16.320 setting themselves up as the victims as well. 1:13:16.640 --> 1:13:20.040 Yes, yeah, Fredo shows up to break the news that 1:13:20.120 --> 1:13:22.920 the grand jury did not indict so Joe Murphy walks 1:13:23.200 --> 1:13:23.680 should have. 1:13:23.600 --> 1:13:24.759 Taken the miss d kiddo. 1:13:25.439 --> 1:13:28.679 And then someone has to tell Eric's family what happened 1:13:28.720 --> 1:13:31.280 at the hospital. Eric's mother is furious. How did this happen? 1:13:31.800 --> 1:13:34.040 They explain, he tried to say the police framed him. 1:13:34.080 --> 1:13:37.799 It's a complicated time, Kat explains. The brother gets pissed, 1:13:38.320 --> 1:13:40.800 NYPD fucked this up. If you hadn't arrested Javon, one 1:13:40.800 --> 1:13:43.639 of this would have happened, would it. Kat can't answer them, 1:13:43.720 --> 1:13:46.200 and neither can Rollins. But at the same time, it's 1:13:46.200 --> 1:13:48.120 like your mom herself was like was it the black 1:13:48.120 --> 1:13:50.800 guy in the park? Like everybody has their biases here, 1:13:50.840 --> 1:13:53.880 you know. So at home, Noah is on his phone 1:13:54.040 --> 1:13:56.800 watching a video and it's bedtime and lives like what 1:13:56.880 --> 1:13:59.160 you watch him, babe, And he's like a video of 1:13:59.240 --> 1:14:02.200 you arresting wrong guy. Every kid at school has seen it, 1:14:02.760 --> 1:14:04.720 and she asks if he wants to talk about it. 1:14:04.800 --> 1:14:06.800 He's like, are you racist? And she's like, come on, 1:14:06.840 --> 1:14:09.200 you little bit, you know I'm not racist. And then 1:14:10.280 --> 1:14:12.719 he goes, did you tell the guy that you're sorry? 1:14:12.800 --> 1:14:14.200 And she's like, well, my boss has told me not 1:14:14.200 --> 1:14:16.000 to talk to him, and he goes, well, that doesn't 1:14:16.000 --> 1:14:17.760 make sense. You always tell me to apologize when I 1:14:17.760 --> 1:14:21.400 do something wrong. So the next scene gorgeous scene, hats 1:14:21.439 --> 1:14:25.559 off to the cinematographer. Seven am in Central Park. Benson 1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:27.599 shows up to where Javon is working out. The light 1:14:27.760 --> 1:14:28.400 is beautiful. 1:14:28.840 --> 1:14:29.400 She thinks. 1:14:29.720 --> 1:14:32.519 He thinks she's like there to pressure him into dropping 1:14:32.560 --> 1:14:35.240 the lawsuit, and she's like, I'm not and he goes, well, 1:14:35.240 --> 1:14:37.519 I bet you heard I got laid off somehow. It 1:14:37.560 --> 1:14:40.000 was in all the papers that I'm in, na, how 1:14:40.000 --> 1:14:43.360 did that get out that's fucked up, and then well 1:14:43.479 --> 1:14:46.120 that could get out. That could have honestly been anybody 1:14:46.120 --> 1:14:48.800 in NA being like, oh that guy in the viral 1:14:48.880 --> 1:14:51.519 video is in my NA, you know, like it could 1:14:51.560 --> 1:14:53.320 be a lot of people do know it is supposed 1:14:53.320 --> 1:14:56.080 to be anonymous, but when something goes viral and people 1:14:56.120 --> 1:15:00.479 are you know, clout chasing, who knows. She apologized and goes, 1:15:00.520 --> 1:15:01.439 I can call you yet the. 1:15:01.680 --> 1:15:05.479 LA meetings are not are not anonymous? People love to 1:15:05.520 --> 1:15:09.919 talk about celebrities in the meetings. Yeah, it's really crazy. Actually, yeah, 1:15:09.960 --> 1:15:10.479 it's bad. 1:15:11.680 --> 1:15:14.200 She apologizes and is like I can call your boss, 1:15:14.200 --> 1:15:16.760 and he's like, stop, you've done enough, and she's like, 1:15:16.800 --> 1:15:18.679 I just want to let you know that the DA 1:15:18.760 --> 1:15:22.320 is pursuing charges against Colleen Reynolds the Karen for filing 1:15:22.320 --> 1:15:24.840 a false report. And he goes, okay, so I lose 1:15:24.880 --> 1:15:27.400 my job. Murphy walks and now you guys just get 1:15:27.400 --> 1:15:31.280 to distract everybody by going after this woman, and Benson goes, listen, 1:15:31.320 --> 1:15:33.960 I know the NYPD has and then she stops herself 1:15:33.960 --> 1:15:35.680 and she goes, I have a lot of work to do, 1:15:35.720 --> 1:15:38.439 and he goes, yeah, you do, and he jogs off 1:15:38.880 --> 1:15:42.280 and leaves Benson standing there looking stunning in the early 1:15:42.360 --> 1:15:45.960 seven am morning at Central Park light and that's Dick Wolf, Baby. 1:15:46.320 --> 1:15:49.160 I mean, it's really like they do. 1:15:51.120 --> 1:15:54.080 The cops lose the indictment and this guy gets away 1:15:55.000 --> 1:15:56.720 with it. But they all do have to kind of 1:15:56.800 --> 1:16:02.720 like interrogate their bias, you know, and like figure out 1:16:03.000 --> 1:16:05.120 how they have to go more by the. 1:16:05.040 --> 1:16:05.640 Book, you know. 1:16:05.920 --> 1:16:08.120 Do you feel bad for Noah for a little bit 1:16:08.720 --> 1:16:10.920 at school? Everyone? 1:16:11.200 --> 1:16:14.719 No, I'm like, your mom has saved you from fucking 1:16:14.800 --> 1:16:18.000 kidnappers and done so much shit for you, and like 1:16:18.080 --> 1:16:20.360 there's a video of her making a bad mistake, like 1:16:20.400 --> 1:16:22.320 making up bad choice or whatever. 1:16:22.400 --> 1:16:26.639 But you know, I never feel bad for Noah. Just kidding. 1:16:26.800 --> 1:16:28.120 I don't want him to get bullied when he like 1:16:28.200 --> 1:16:29.720 when he likes to dance. I don't like that part. 1:16:29.960 --> 1:16:33.280 I want that to be good. But take us through 1:16:33.280 --> 1:16:40.560 the crimes, babe. 1:16:41.920 --> 1:16:42.360 All right. 1:16:42.560 --> 1:16:45.439 So we all obviously know what this is based on 1:16:45.520 --> 1:16:49.599 the Central Park bird watching incident, so I'm gonna save 1:16:49.640 --> 1:16:53.080 that for a second. So this case isn't that connected, 1:16:53.360 --> 1:16:56.840 I guess just because it's like Southeast Asian connection and 1:16:56.920 --> 1:17:01.600 gay connection, but not so much of the case. I 1:17:01.600 --> 1:17:04.320 don't know you guys, you guys be the judge, but 1:17:04.479 --> 1:17:08.719 I thought it was interesting enough to just talk about. 1:17:09.120 --> 1:17:13.560 So it's the Rainhard Snaga case. And so Rainhard Snaga 1:17:13.880 --> 1:17:16.600 is a guy that drugged and raped young men in England. 1:17:16.240 --> 1:17:17.200 For twelve years. 1:17:17.800 --> 1:17:20.080 See how it's like, it's not really the same thing, 1:17:21.439 --> 1:17:22.960 and a part of me wasn't going to and then 1:17:23.000 --> 1:17:25.919 it's like whatever, we're all just interested in things anyways, 1:17:26.000 --> 1:17:28.640 So he would. But I also I am wondering why they 1:17:28.640 --> 1:17:31.320 put it into the wiki because is it because they're Asian? 1:17:31.400 --> 1:17:34.040 What's going on here? Is the Asian gay? That's it? 1:17:34.200 --> 1:17:37.879 Like I don't know, but well. 1:17:37.960 --> 1:17:40.559 He was also targeting bisexual men. It could be like 1:17:40.640 --> 1:17:42.920 the whole thing of like being by and trying to 1:17:43.000 --> 1:17:45.479 like hide that you're by or I don't know. 1:17:46.240 --> 1:17:48.719 Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, So they just be straight 1:17:48.760 --> 1:17:53.200 up races, although sometimes they like reach for connection. 1:17:53.479 --> 1:17:56.559 Who knows. You'll keep me, you'll keep me on, you'll 1:17:56.600 --> 1:17:58.720 let me know. But I'm glad I read you know. 1:17:58.720 --> 1:17:59.439 It was one article. 1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:00.400 So he. 1:18:02.800 --> 1:18:06.080 Would loure intoxicated young guys to his place before drugging 1:18:06.160 --> 1:18:09.360 them and sexually assaulting them. He was originally from Indonesia 1:18:09.479 --> 1:18:12.519 from like they put in quotations, relatively wealthy family, so 1:18:12.560 --> 1:18:14.960 I don't know what that means, but they loved church. 1:18:15.800 --> 1:18:18.640 And he was studying for a PhD at the University 1:18:18.680 --> 1:18:22.240 of Leeds and he would commute monthly from Manchester, so 1:18:22.400 --> 1:18:26.240 like he lived. I guess the city is Manchester and 1:18:26.360 --> 1:18:29.000 he is, Yeah, and then so he would like go 1:18:29.040 --> 1:18:31.479 to Leeds. He would approach the men in the early 1:18:31.520 --> 1:18:34.840 hours of the morning outside of nightclubs in Manchester, and 1:18:34.880 --> 1:18:36.920 then once they were at his place, he would lace 1:18:37.000 --> 1:18:39.960 their drink with GHB and then film himself raping them 1:18:40.000 --> 1:18:43.880 while they slept. His victims were unaware they'd been assaulted. 1:18:44.640 --> 1:18:46.439 I mean I could see this guy doing that, the 1:18:46.439 --> 1:18:47.360 guy from the episode. 1:18:47.680 --> 1:18:50.439 He seems terrible. He seems definitely terrible. 1:18:50.600 --> 1:18:52.960 Yeah, Like him getting away with this is going to 1:18:53.040 --> 1:18:56.760 cause a lot of crimes in the future because he 1:18:56.800 --> 1:19:00.639 already has like white guy bro vibes, and like now 1:19:00.680 --> 1:19:03.000 he's going to be so emboldened to whatever the fuck 1:19:03.040 --> 1:19:05.439 he wants, and like how he's a hero, He's gonna 1:19:05.439 --> 1:19:10.360 be like a by hero. So like this gets really fucked. Okay, 1:19:10.479 --> 1:19:12.679 I mean it all is fucked, but I'm just giving 1:19:12.680 --> 1:19:15.800 people a heads up so they The attacks came to 1:19:15.920 --> 1:19:19.080 light in twenty seventeen after an eighteen year old victim 1:19:19.120 --> 1:19:22.400 woke up at six am while being assaulted, and the 1:19:22.479 --> 1:19:25.440 victim managed to fight him off and then grabbed Snaga's 1:19:25.479 --> 1:19:29.519 phone before leaving the apartment, so like a genius. And 1:19:29.560 --> 1:19:32.360 then he went to the police, who then discovered three 1:19:32.439 --> 1:19:36.200 point two nine terabytes of graphic material on his phone, 1:19:36.720 --> 1:19:39.640 which is equal to two hundred and fifty DVDs. So 1:19:39.760 --> 1:19:41.240 he was taping all of them. 1:19:41.439 --> 1:19:42.360 I mean, cut to me. 1:19:42.680 --> 1:19:44.960 I have to take my photos off my phone every year. 1:19:45.000 --> 1:19:48.240 I have no space. Most phones have like sixty four 1:19:48.280 --> 1:19:50.200 megs on them. This guy has some kind of wild 1:19:50.240 --> 1:19:53.439 phone that's holding mountains. 1:19:53.080 --> 1:19:54.879 Of assault videos. Jesus. 1:19:55.280 --> 1:19:59.160 Yeah, because in some cases the assaults lasted for eight hours, 1:19:59.760 --> 1:20:02.000 and and then in some cases the men were like 1:20:02.120 --> 1:20:05.320 vomiting during the rapes, snoring during the rapes. 1:20:05.479 --> 1:20:08.439 Like, oh my god, I'm so glad that this guy 1:20:08.560 --> 1:20:12.559 stole the phone because they might not have even have 1:20:12.680 --> 1:20:14.240 known that he had all these other victims. 1:20:14.680 --> 1:20:15.840 Yeah. 1:20:16.200 --> 1:20:18.599 Yeah, And so he was sentenced to life after being 1:20:18.600 --> 1:20:22.240 found guilty in four separate trials. His defense was that 1:20:22.280 --> 1:20:25.280 the men consented and were pretending to be unconscious to 1:20:25.320 --> 1:20:29.640 fulfill his fantasy, to fulfill his fantasy, so like that 1:20:29.640 --> 1:20:32.559 didn't really hold up in court. He was found guilty 1:20:32.560 --> 1:20:35.120 of one hundred and fifty nine counts of sexual offenses 1:20:35.200 --> 1:20:39.400 against forty eight different men, and they feel like the 1:20:39.479 --> 1:20:41.920 victim count is higher about like men who didn't want 1:20:41.920 --> 1:20:45.280 to come forward like that are in the closet. And 1:20:45.320 --> 1:20:48.200 then he must serve thirty years before he's even considered 1:20:48.200 --> 1:20:51.120 for release, which for the UK is huge. Like I 1:20:51.120 --> 1:20:53.400 feel like they really love to let a sexual predator 1:20:53.439 --> 1:20:58.840 in and out. Ian Rushton, the Northwest Deputy Chief Crown Prosecutor, 1:20:58.960 --> 1:21:03.280 said to CNN to CNN World, his extreme sense of 1:21:03.360 --> 1:21:07.000 sexual entitlement almost defies belief and he would no doubt 1:21:07.080 --> 1:21:09.760 still be adding to his staggering tally had he not 1:21:09.880 --> 1:21:12.840 been caught. So he was like taking drunk jews and 1:21:12.880 --> 1:21:14.559 like being really helpful, and I said, like, oh, you 1:21:14.560 --> 1:21:16.880 could crash with me, like stay with me, you could 1:21:16.920 --> 1:21:19.680 be safe with me, Like it wasn't even all like 1:21:19.800 --> 1:21:25.400 come ons, and then yeah, really like crazy, but he's 1:21:25.439 --> 1:21:29.439 in person, so that is good and good that this 1:21:29.479 --> 1:21:32.040 guy woke up like he would this guy would still 1:21:32.080 --> 1:21:33.799 be at it, Like he would truly still. 1:21:33.560 --> 1:21:33.960 Be at it. 1:21:35.000 --> 1:21:38.360 So obviously this is like so on the Central Park 1:21:38.400 --> 1:21:42.000 bird watching incident. Christian Cooper is a black man and 1:21:42.080 --> 1:21:45.000 he's a burner who is in Central Park and this 1:21:45.120 --> 1:21:48.559 is like May twenty twenty, and so he is a 1:21:48.600 --> 1:21:50.760 Harvard graduate and is on the board of the New 1:21:50.840 --> 1:21:54.360 York City Autuband Society. So these are nerd birds, Okay, 1:21:54.880 --> 1:21:58.760 the nerds. And he's been birding since age ten, so 1:21:59.040 --> 1:22:01.880 he's loved that. He really couldn't stop. 1:22:02.120 --> 1:22:02.599 And so. 1:22:04.280 --> 1:22:07.000 Both his parents are Long Island teachers and they enrolled 1:22:07.040 --> 1:22:09.040 him in a four h program and then he built 1:22:09.040 --> 1:22:10.960 a wooden bird feeder and set it up on his 1:22:11.040 --> 1:22:13.799 lawn and then he became obsessed with all the creatures 1:22:13.800 --> 1:22:16.439 that flocked and that set off this fascination for him. 1:22:16.520 --> 1:22:20.160 And yeah, four decades in counting. Like he's just a 1:22:20.320 --> 1:22:23.160 hot guy who loves birds. He's very cool. And he 1:22:23.240 --> 1:22:26.400 worked as an editor at Marvel Comics and he created 1:22:26.439 --> 1:22:29.320 one of the first gay characters in the Star Trek universe. 1:22:29.800 --> 1:22:32.080 And this is I know, and this is after getting 1:22:32.080 --> 1:22:35.600 a political science degree. Like he's yeah, does lots of 1:22:35.640 --> 1:22:39.800 stuff and so he basically asked a white woman, Amy 1:22:39.840 --> 1:22:43.439 Cooper and no relation obviously, so Chris to leash her dog, 1:22:43.680 --> 1:22:46.080 which is a rule in this part of Central Park. 1:22:46.360 --> 1:22:50.920 I know in the mornings they have like before nine am, unleas. 1:22:50.160 --> 1:22:51.320 Like they have all these things. 1:22:51.840 --> 1:22:55.000 This is a place, the rambles like, it is a 1:22:55.040 --> 1:22:57.400 place and I'll get into it, like this section of 1:22:57.439 --> 1:23:00.000 the park as dogs are required. 1:23:00.520 --> 1:23:01.800 The dogs are required to. 1:23:01.760 --> 1:23:03.519 Be a leashes an all time because I guess it's 1:23:03.520 --> 1:23:06.920 like more woodsy and natury than the other parks or 1:23:06.960 --> 1:23:10.519 something like other areas. Okay, so she refused to leash 1:23:10.520 --> 1:23:13.000 your dog, which is already like so fucked up. So 1:23:13.080 --> 1:23:16.000 he took out his phone and started recording, and that's 1:23:16.040 --> 1:23:18.160 when she called the police and raised her voice and 1:23:18.280 --> 1:23:21.599 started acting all hysterical, so like she went from zero 1:23:21.640 --> 1:23:24.200 to one hundred, and then while dialing, she says on 1:23:24.280 --> 1:23:26.759 the recording, I'm going to tell them there's an African 1:23:26.800 --> 1:23:31.000 American man threatening my life. So this was at eight 1:23:31.040 --> 1:23:33.479 ten in the morning on Monday in May twenty twenty. 1:23:33.760 --> 1:23:37.080 So yeah, this is a semi The New York Times 1:23:37.080 --> 1:23:39.880 described this place as a semi wild place in the park, 1:23:40.560 --> 1:23:43.479 and the dogs are required to be leashed at all times. 1:23:43.920 --> 1:23:46.320 He then got treats out for the dog and hopes 1:23:46.400 --> 1:23:48.439 that she would stop the dog from going to him 1:23:48.439 --> 1:23:51.680 and leash the dog with this, and he did it 1:23:51.720 --> 1:23:54.519 all the time because I guess this happens constantly, and 1:23:55.760 --> 1:23:57.120 this quote is tough. 1:23:57.200 --> 1:23:59.400 I will wait, wait, wait, explain that to me, like 1:23:59.520 --> 1:24:01.960 why would you Why would a dogs stay away from 1:24:02.040 --> 1:24:03.599 you if you have a treat for it. 1:24:03.520 --> 1:24:05.320 He wouldn't The dog would want to run to you. 1:24:05.479 --> 1:24:08.360 So in hopes that the like owners of the dog 1:24:08.520 --> 1:24:13.920 then like get their dog, like hold their dog where 1:24:13.960 --> 1:24:15.360 it's like, oh, you want to fuck around. 1:24:15.360 --> 1:24:16.320 So this was his quote. 1:24:16.800 --> 1:24:18.680 Look, if you're going to do what you want, I'm 1:24:18.720 --> 1:24:20.759 going to do what I want. But you're not going 1:24:20.840 --> 1:24:26.160 to like it. So that's not like a that's like 1:24:26.200 --> 1:24:28.439 a weird way to communicate, I will be honest. 1:24:28.760 --> 1:24:31.240 And he's bringing the treats to like entice the dogs 1:24:31.240 --> 1:24:33.560 to run away from their owners, and. 1:24:33.200 --> 1:24:36.000 And then the owners like grab your dog and then 1:24:36.120 --> 1:24:38.360 leash them. It's kind of just like you want to 1:24:38.400 --> 1:24:41.120 fuck around, we can fuck around, you know what I mean? 1:24:41.880 --> 1:24:44.360 And so he cares. So this is the thing he 1:24:44.400 --> 1:24:47.040 says he carries the dog treats for this exact reason, 1:24:47.800 --> 1:24:51.720 because like because then she did leash her animal. So 1:24:51.840 --> 1:24:55.040 his thing is like, I mean, I don't get this plan, 1:24:55.200 --> 1:24:57.360 but I've not been a burder for forty years, so 1:24:57.479 --> 1:25:00.560 like I think it's probably how like bicyclists, deestrians, and 1:25:00.600 --> 1:25:02.559 cars don't really get along. Like I think there's a 1:25:02.640 --> 1:25:05.240 long gooing battle between dog owners and burners. 1:25:05.840 --> 1:25:08.320 Well, I mean there's also like for someone that like 1:25:08.360 --> 1:25:10.240 I don't have pets on I never have, but like, 1:25:10.560 --> 1:25:12.720 at least where I live in LA, people are so 1:25:12.920 --> 1:25:15.320 entitled about the dogs. Dogs are not allowed at a 1:25:15.320 --> 1:25:17.479 bunch of rec centers. They just people let their dogs 1:25:17.840 --> 1:25:20.640 run around. They will jump on kids while they're in 1:25:20.720 --> 1:25:23.519 the outfield playing baseball, like and the owners will just 1:25:23.520 --> 1:25:26.200 be like sorry. I mean, my friend at her building 1:25:26.280 --> 1:25:28.599 just got bit her and her dog got attacked by 1:25:28.600 --> 1:25:30.559 a dog, and the owner was like, oh my bad. 1:25:30.720 --> 1:25:32.920 Like It's like a lot of people are just kind 1:25:32.920 --> 1:25:35.559 of like we'll see what happens and then sorry, Like 1:25:36.200 --> 1:25:37.680 there are places I'm not allowed to go in with 1:25:37.720 --> 1:25:39.519 my children. There are ways I have to have my 1:25:39.600 --> 1:25:41.679 children mave like, and I feel like dog people are 1:25:41.720 --> 1:25:44.000 just kind of like now we can do whatever. 1:25:44.080 --> 1:25:46.559 Not all dog people, excuse me, certain dog people. 1:25:46.920 --> 1:25:49.519 No, there's definitely like well trained dogs. And I actually 1:25:49.640 --> 1:25:52.160 just saw a video a girl was like recording her 1:25:52.200 --> 1:25:55.040 own self and a man's dog, like you're saying, like 1:25:55.120 --> 1:25:58.400 ran up to her and then she and then he 1:25:58.520 --> 1:26:00.519 ran the dog ran back, but like she shook her 1:26:00.560 --> 1:26:02.519 head and the guy was just like, are you shaking 1:26:02.560 --> 1:26:02.960 your head? 1:26:03.400 --> 1:26:04.640 Are you shaking your head at me? 1:26:05.040 --> 1:26:06.800 And she took off her headphones and was like what 1:26:06.920 --> 1:26:09.200 and he said it again, and she goes, I'm listening 1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:11.479 to music, but it's like she was shaking her head. 1:26:11.520 --> 1:26:14.720 Do you leash your fucking dog unless it's like the 1:26:14.800 --> 1:26:16.080 designated time. 1:26:16.320 --> 1:26:18.200 Or do you? Yeah? 1:26:18.200 --> 1:26:20.439 And I also I do bits about it, like if 1:26:20.479 --> 1:26:23.479 your dog is really well trained and behaved, like that's cool, 1:26:23.520 --> 1:26:25.439 Like I do you know that that is different? But 1:26:25.479 --> 1:26:26.840 I don't think a lot of people are willing to 1:26:26.840 --> 1:26:28.880 admit when their kid or dog is badly. 1:26:28.600 --> 1:26:31.160 Behaved and that it's a reflection of them. 1:26:31.360 --> 1:26:32.920 But I was just with people on the street and 1:26:32.960 --> 1:26:34.360 like a guy was trying to show off that his 1:26:34.360 --> 1:26:37.960 dog wasn't unleashed, but like he's on second half, and 1:26:38.280 --> 1:26:42.040 it's like, what are you trying to prove? Like it's busy, 1:26:42.120 --> 1:26:45.160 cars are whizzing by, like leash your fucking dog, like 1:26:45.840 --> 1:26:48.200 for his safety? What if a squirrel runs? Like I 1:26:48.200 --> 1:26:54.360 don't know, I just yeah whatever. So this is just 1:26:54.439 --> 1:26:57.280 his always plan is like to have these treats to 1:26:57.360 --> 1:26:59.439 be like, you're not gonna like it if you want 1:26:59.439 --> 1:27:02.920 to fuck around, and then they end up getting their dog. 1:27:03.439 --> 1:27:06.720 So but that is a weird way to word it 1:27:06.760 --> 1:27:10.160 because she uses that against him later. So okay, so 1:27:10.280 --> 1:27:13.400 then she calls nine one one. She claims he was 1:27:13.439 --> 1:27:17.080 threatening her and the dog, and then she did finally 1:27:17.160 --> 1:27:19.840 leash the dog and then you hear him say thank 1:27:19.920 --> 1:27:22.560 you and the video ends. He just wanted her to 1:27:22.600 --> 1:27:24.519 follow the rules and he is in charge of the 1:27:24.640 --> 1:27:28.400 Uh what is it? Abadan Audoban I've never heard. I 1:27:28.520 --> 1:27:30.040 never heard that word in my fucking life. 1:27:30.720 --> 1:27:33.360 So the Audubon Society they have like coffee table books 1:27:33.400 --> 1:27:33.839 and stuff. 1:27:33.920 --> 1:27:37.799 Well, yeah, I there's some comedians who are birders. Ashley Hamilton, 1:27:37.960 --> 1:27:41.880 part of Good Noticing Spot is loves a bird. Joe 1:27:41.960 --> 1:27:44.519 Zimmerman's a birder. I'm trying to think who else goes 1:27:44.520 --> 1:27:45.919 in bird woman's a birder. 1:27:45.960 --> 1:27:48.160 Interesting. Yeah, yea, the birders are out and about we're 1:27:48.240 --> 1:27:48.960 hitting an age. 1:27:49.320 --> 1:27:51.080 So I mean he now with these and now with 1:27:51.160 --> 1:27:54.080 the what's it called the bird the bird cam thing 1:27:54.760 --> 1:27:57.720 that everybody has, Like now there's like these feeders that 1:27:57.760 --> 1:27:59.639 are like everybody has them now where like you can 1:27:59.760 --> 1:28:02.639 just look at the feed of like your bird feeder. 1:28:03.120 --> 1:28:05.040 That is cool, bird buddy or something like that. 1:28:05.120 --> 1:28:09.200 Go on, So ends the video. This quote comes out 1:28:09.200 --> 1:28:10.760 of nowhere. There's I don't know why I wrote. It's 1:28:10.760 --> 1:28:12.559 a good quote, but he basically in the Times is like, 1:28:12.760 --> 1:28:15.160 I'm pretty adamant about not being a participant in my 1:28:15.200 --> 1:28:16.200 own dehumanization. 1:28:16.600 --> 1:28:17.400 And I liked that. 1:28:17.600 --> 1:28:20.760 Just like in the aftermath and everything that happened, the 1:28:20.800 --> 1:28:23.840 cops came, no summons were issued, there was no arrests made, 1:28:23.920 --> 1:28:27.519 like nothing happened. But the video was posted onto Twitter 1:28:27.640 --> 1:28:31.479 on Memorial Day by Cooper's sister and immediately got tens 1:28:31.479 --> 1:28:35.320 of millions of views. I think Cooper obviously the man, 1:28:35.680 --> 1:28:38.000 the man. Okay, he's the one that taped it. Yeah, 1:28:38.080 --> 1:28:42.280 so his sister posts videotape I forgot, yeah, yeah, she 1:28:42.439 --> 1:28:45.200 like called the police and was a white woman claiming 1:28:45.240 --> 1:28:49.519 that she felt it like it's just yeah. So then 1:28:49.800 --> 1:28:52.240 within twenty four hours, Amy had to give up her 1:28:52.240 --> 1:28:54.599 dog because then people like searched her Instagram and saw 1:28:54.640 --> 1:28:56.599 that she wasn't like treating the dog well, and so 1:28:56.680 --> 1:28:59.519 she gave it back to like the society that she 1:29:00.400 --> 1:29:03.559 like adopted him from. She publicly apologized and then was 1:29:03.640 --> 1:29:06.080 fired from her job. So that's within twenty four hours 1:29:06.080 --> 1:29:09.200 of this video. And obviously everyone called her central part Karen, 1:29:09.840 --> 1:29:12.599 and it was just like this was I have such 1:29:12.720 --> 1:29:15.960 vivid memories of this. So our dude was actually really 1:29:15.960 --> 1:29:18.680 taken aback by the retribution and is even quoted in 1:29:18.760 --> 1:29:21.240 the time saying it's a little bit of a frenzy. 1:29:21.320 --> 1:29:23.760 And I am uncomfortable with that. If our goal is 1:29:23.800 --> 1:29:26.400 to change the underlying factors, I am not sure that 1:29:26.439 --> 1:29:29.320 this young woman having her life completely torn apart serves 1:29:29.360 --> 1:29:32.599 that goal. I mean, he's like a genius, he goes, 1:29:32.600 --> 1:29:34.840 I'm not excusing the racism, but I don't know if 1:29:34.840 --> 1:29:40.040 her life needed to be torn apart, and more quotes 1:29:40.080 --> 1:29:41.919 from him, I don't know if it was a conscious 1:29:41.960 --> 1:29:44.320 thing or not. But she did it, and she went there. 1:29:44.880 --> 1:29:48.559 She thought she could be Marshall to her advantage. Does 1:29:48.560 --> 1:29:51.800 that even make sense? She thought she could. 1:29:51.560 --> 1:29:54.800 Marshal to her advantage? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, is that 1:29:54.840 --> 1:29:59.920 what I said? Whatever you got? Yeah, and it didn't work. 1:30:00.080 --> 1:30:02.880 I like she obviously it's like hoisted by your own petard. 1:30:02.920 --> 1:30:05.160 It's like you're using your own privilege that you know 1:30:05.200 --> 1:30:08.599 you fucking have. There's a reason she said African American twice. 1:30:08.960 --> 1:30:11.280 And I did you so mad that someone just asked 1:30:11.320 --> 1:30:13.439 you to follow the rules? Yeah? 1:30:13.479 --> 1:30:14.800 And that it was And if it had been like 1:30:14.840 --> 1:30:16.920 another white woman, I wonder if she would just have 1:30:16.960 --> 1:30:20.519 been like, yeah, well and then moved on. But because 1:30:20.520 --> 1:30:22.880 it was like this black man deigned to tell her 1:30:23.000 --> 1:30:24.560 that she has to do something. 1:30:24.400 --> 1:30:26.120 Well, yeah, it's like definitely her biases. 1:30:26.200 --> 1:30:28.240 Like I doubt she knew he was the president of 1:30:28.280 --> 1:30:31.160 the Bird Society, you know what I mean, like and 1:30:31.240 --> 1:30:33.320 went to Harvard and all these things, and like those 1:30:33.320 --> 1:30:36.240 things shouldn't matter. You're allowed to be like an uneducated 1:30:36.280 --> 1:30:39.120 idiot and still be treated with respect in the world 1:30:39.200 --> 1:30:41.320 and not be like people be scared of you. 1:30:41.880 --> 1:30:44.160 But she probably. 1:30:44.560 --> 1:30:48.759 Didn't think that he was like a fucking genius, beloved, cool, 1:30:48.840 --> 1:30:52.599 creative guy. You know what, I mean, yeah, who's still 1:30:52.600 --> 1:30:55.960 at her side? So then Professor Catherine Russell Brett not 1:30:56.000 --> 1:30:58.680 her side, but like he was, he's and I'll talk 1:30:58.680 --> 1:31:00.680 about this later, but he didn't particip Payton any of 1:31:00.680 --> 1:31:03.080 the police stuff, Like he was not interested in taking 1:31:03.160 --> 1:31:06.600 this further. Like he truly just wanted the leash on 1:31:06.680 --> 1:31:10.560 the dog. Yeah, that's all he cared about, right. Professor 1:31:10.600 --> 1:31:13.040 Catherine Russell Brown is the director of the Center for 1:31:13.120 --> 1:31:16.120 the Study of Race and Race Relations at the University 1:31:16.160 --> 1:31:18.880 of Florida's Levin College of Law. Like the longest intro 1:31:18.960 --> 1:31:21.960 of a person ever on this podcast, and she's quoted 1:31:21.960 --> 1:31:25.240 by the time saying it was particularly a punch in 1:31:25.280 --> 1:31:27.280 the gut for a lot of people. It ties into 1:31:27.400 --> 1:31:29.599 and taps into a long history of white women, in 1:31:29.640 --> 1:31:33.040 particular falsely accusing black men of crimes that leads to 1:31:33.120 --> 1:31:36.519 great harm. And like she knew what she was doing, 1:31:36.880 --> 1:31:40.880 she knew what she was fucking doing. Like and this 1:31:41.240 --> 1:31:44.720 was at the height of the George Floyd case, and 1:31:44.800 --> 1:31:50.320 so it is like, you know, you and Breonna Taylor, 1:31:50.400 --> 1:31:53.400 like you know the threat Like maybe before that time, 1:31:53.479 --> 1:31:56.640 even before twenty twenty, like maybe you didn't know that, 1:31:56.800 --> 1:31:59.479 Like what a threat police were I mean with Trayvon 1:31:59.520 --> 1:32:04.440 Martin so long ago, but like there is no excuse, 1:32:04.680 --> 1:32:07.360 like you like, we all know the threat to black 1:32:07.400 --> 1:32:11.080 people calling polices, and she knew that and she was 1:32:11.160 --> 1:32:15.799 willing him to die for this bullshit. She was willing 1:32:15.840 --> 1:32:18.559 to risk his life to prove a point and not 1:32:18.680 --> 1:32:21.760 leash her dog, you know what I mean, like and 1:32:22.040 --> 1:32:25.880 used it as a threat. It was weaponized. Okay, this 1:32:25.920 --> 1:32:28.120 is all because later she's like, she is a dumb bitch. 1:32:28.200 --> 1:32:28.479 Okay. 1:32:29.040 --> 1:32:31.000 So and he was back looking at the birds two 1:32:31.040 --> 1:32:32.599 days later, like when's this epen? 1:32:32.640 --> 1:32:35.520 On a Monday? He was back at the birds Wednesday. 1:32:35.840 --> 1:32:39.120 He was focusing on the olive sided flycatchers and red 1:32:39.160 --> 1:32:42.880 bellied woodpeckers. She was then charged like they did in 1:32:42.920 --> 1:32:45.559 the episode, for like attention. So she was charged with 1:32:45.600 --> 1:32:48.760 wrongfully calling the police, and that never went anywhere, and 1:32:48.880 --> 1:32:51.559 Chris had zero involvement with the DA's case against her 1:32:52.840 --> 1:32:55.639 The New York Times again, mister Cooper says bringing her 1:32:55.680 --> 1:32:59.160 more misery just seems like piling on, and he did 1:32:59.160 --> 1:33:00.360 not want to be involved. 1:32:59.960 --> 1:33:00.559 In the case. 1:33:00.920 --> 1:33:03.559 And it's also like a really hard charge to convict 1:33:03.920 --> 1:33:08.000 because authorities don't want to discourage the public for reporting crimes. 1:33:08.840 --> 1:33:10.400 You know what I mean, Like if you're constantly I 1:33:10.439 --> 1:33:12.519 mean they do. If it's rape, they will arrest you. 1:33:12.560 --> 1:33:16.360 And there's a whole documentary, mate, But they they don't 1:33:16.400 --> 1:33:19.799 want to like straight out like discourage. So the charges 1:33:19.800 --> 1:33:23.040 were dismissed in February twenty twenty one, after she completed 1:33:23.080 --> 1:33:26.880 a therapeutic program that included an instruction about racial biases. 1:33:27.760 --> 1:33:30.080 She was eventually reunited with her dog as well from 1:33:30.080 --> 1:33:32.880 the rescue group that took the dog away. Then, of course, 1:33:33.120 --> 1:33:36.519 May twenty twenty one, she sues her former employer for 1:33:36.640 --> 1:33:39.880 firing her because she was a victim of racial discrimination. 1:33:40.880 --> 1:33:43.760 She says they didn't investigate it thoroughly because of her 1:33:43.840 --> 1:33:47.200 race and gender and that and reached a decision to 1:33:47.280 --> 1:33:50.040 terminate her because she is a white woman. She then 1:33:50.080 --> 1:33:55.040 in November, oh, Pudding, I'm so sorry for your your trauma. 1:33:55.240 --> 1:33:56.120 Oh my god. 1:33:56.960 --> 1:33:59.720 So November seven, twenty three, she wrote an essay for 1:33:59.760 --> 1:34:02.479 news Week and it ain't and the New York Post 1:34:02.520 --> 1:34:05.519 picked it up, and yeah who news and so oh yeah, 1:34:05.600 --> 1:34:10.800 yeah who they picked it up, and basically it's just 1:34:10.840 --> 1:34:13.320 like really okay, So she blames him for the treats 1:34:13.840 --> 1:34:15.920 and yelling at her, and that she is a victim 1:34:15.920 --> 1:34:18.080 of sexual assault and was a lone woman in the 1:34:18.120 --> 1:34:21.559 park and she was scared. But it's like your fear, 1:34:22.720 --> 1:34:26.799 I don't know, Like again, are you weaponizing something else? 1:34:27.080 --> 1:34:29.599 Or him saying I'm going to do something you don't 1:34:29.680 --> 1:34:33.800 like is weirdly worded, like I if, I don't know. 1:34:33.840 --> 1:34:36.200 There's just so much other context in other things she writes, 1:34:36.200 --> 1:34:38.479 where it's like I just don't believe you in any way, 1:34:38.600 --> 1:34:41.400 And you didn't sound scared. Your voice went from calm 1:34:41.439 --> 1:34:45.599 to shrieking in an instant to to do this report 1:34:45.760 --> 1:34:47.880 Like I don't know, So she said she was scared, 1:34:47.920 --> 1:34:49.800 but you know, I do want to believe victims, but 1:34:50.080 --> 1:34:50.559 I don't know. 1:34:50.720 --> 1:34:52.000 This is like a tough moment. 1:34:52.160 --> 1:34:54.400 So I mean, all of this is fair, but again, 1:34:54.520 --> 1:34:57.599 call like saying African American twice, you know, she says, 1:34:57.600 --> 1:35:00.240 she repeated saying African American because of the show body 1:35:00.360 --> 1:35:03.200 service in the park. Again another excuse, like this is 1:35:03.200 --> 1:35:05.280 the thing like are you sorry? Did you take your 1:35:05.360 --> 1:35:08.680 racial biases class? And are you dealing with this or not? 1:35:08.960 --> 1:35:12.240 And it's it's obvious not, she says, she She then 1:35:12.280 --> 1:35:16.639 he says that he admitted to instigating the incident by 1:35:16.720 --> 1:35:20.120 saying he always carries dog treats to lore leashless dogs. 1:35:20.600 --> 1:35:22.880 She used that to say she wasn't the only person 1:35:22.960 --> 1:35:26.439 he threatened in Central Park. But it's like, follow the 1:35:26.439 --> 1:35:28.919 fucking rules. He is the president of the bird Society. 1:35:28.960 --> 1:35:30.519 I don't know what to tell you. He knows what 1:35:30.560 --> 1:35:33.800 he's doing. So she then complains that he refused to 1:35:33.840 --> 1:35:36.679 talk to her after when she tried to connect with him, 1:35:36.880 --> 1:35:38.599 and he said that he goes She's tried to connect 1:35:38.600 --> 1:35:40.080 with me, I have no interest in talking to her, 1:35:40.120 --> 1:35:41.960 Like he doesn't care about her. He only cares what 1:35:42.040 --> 1:35:46.040 birds okay, Like I don't know. Like that's another thing. 1:35:46.080 --> 1:35:49.479 It's like she feels owed to his time, his education, 1:35:49.880 --> 1:35:52.760 his everything. Like so she's like, he refused to talk 1:35:52.800 --> 1:35:55.840 to me. I've tried to connect with him, and you know, 1:35:56.000 --> 1:35:58.880 She's like, I was open to an honest and productive 1:35:58.920 --> 1:36:02.920 conversations to which he is not interested in in the slightest. 1:36:03.320 --> 1:36:06.320 And it's like, why does he owe you anything? You 1:36:06.360 --> 1:36:08.760 called the cops on him. He wants nothing to do 1:36:08.840 --> 1:36:11.360 with you. He thinks you're an idiot. He thinks you're 1:36:11.400 --> 1:36:13.640 a loser and an idiot and still went out of 1:36:13.640 --> 1:36:16.639 his way to defend you in the New York Times. Yeah, 1:36:16.680 --> 1:36:19.679 but nothing was no summons, nothing was written, like nothing happened, 1:36:19.800 --> 1:36:23.080 like no one cared. Because this reminds me there's another girl. 1:36:23.680 --> 1:36:25.439 She was a black woman and like a white woman 1:36:25.520 --> 1:36:28.160 called the cops on her for shooting golf balls in 1:36:28.200 --> 1:36:30.360 the park. I don't know if you've seen this. And 1:36:30.400 --> 1:36:32.920 then when the cops come, they're not golf balls, they're 1:36:32.920 --> 1:36:34.200 obviously squishy balls. 1:36:34.200 --> 1:36:36.599 She goes, yeah, I would never do that. They're squishy balls. 1:36:36.640 --> 1:36:39.640 And so they arrested the white woman for calling the 1:36:39.680 --> 1:36:44.519 cops for no fucking reason, like you know, but she was. 1:36:44.520 --> 1:36:46.519 Like, we're wasting the cops time. 1:36:46.600 --> 1:36:49.320 It's just dangerous, Like she knew she was doing nothing wrong, 1:36:49.360 --> 1:36:51.160 but it's like you are putting these people in danger 1:36:51.200 --> 1:36:54.240 knowingly with your power and privilege. And that is why 1:36:55.080 --> 1:36:57.120 black people can't trust white people. I mean, at the 1:36:57.200 --> 1:36:58.519 end of the day, it's like the white women that 1:36:58.600 --> 1:37:01.040 voted for Trump, like you could feel as good as 1:37:01.040 --> 1:37:04.680 you want, but our proximity to like power because of 1:37:04.720 --> 1:37:08.320 our whiteness is just like too powerful, and white women 1:37:08.479 --> 1:37:11.479 choose whiteness over black people all the time, all the 1:37:11.520 --> 1:37:14.519 fucking time. It's like crazy, But like then to after 1:37:14.600 --> 1:37:17.160 all of this, think that he needed to have an 1:37:17.160 --> 1:37:21.680 honest and productive for who what kind of convo? Like 1:37:21.800 --> 1:37:26.120 you aren't even taking responsibility, yes, but you wrote She 1:37:26.240 --> 1:37:28.120 could have written a thing of like how bad if 1:37:28.160 --> 1:37:31.360 you're going by weaponizing my whiteness, by putting a black 1:37:31.400 --> 1:37:34.559 man in danger, by understanding what police and like police 1:37:34.600 --> 1:37:37.760 brutality means, and all of these things, But instead she 1:37:38.040 --> 1:37:41.040 writ this is her one piece three years later, and 1:37:41.080 --> 1:37:43.120 she is the victim of it and trying to shit 1:37:43.200 --> 1:37:46.280 on him for luring and fighting with dogs and like 1:37:46.600 --> 1:37:49.280 wanting a convo, and he's a dickhead for not giving 1:37:49.320 --> 1:37:51.360 me more time. And that's why I like that the 1:37:51.439 --> 1:37:52.880 dude didn't want to talk to Benson. At the end 1:37:52.920 --> 1:37:55.320 of the episode where it's like you're not owed this, 1:37:55.520 --> 1:37:58.240 You're not owed black people's time, she says she was 1:37:58.280 --> 1:38:02.040 traumatized and terrified, and he is a constant threatener of 1:38:02.120 --> 1:38:02.759 dog owners. 1:38:03.439 --> 1:38:05.320 She then that are not following the rules. 1:38:05.600 --> 1:38:08.839 She then says there's but I do love a service 1:38:08.840 --> 1:38:11.760 dog at an airport misbehaving like that that is one 1:38:11.760 --> 1:38:13.720 of my favorite things, where I'm like, this clearly isn't 1:38:13.760 --> 1:38:15.479 a work, like a dog that's working, you know what 1:38:15.520 --> 1:38:19.680 I mean. She then says there's no such thing as 1:38:19.680 --> 1:38:23.320 a Karen. We're all just people, each of us deserving 1:38:23.479 --> 1:38:26.280 of forgiveness and grace, and that she feels like she 1:38:26.439 --> 1:38:27.760 was silenced. 1:38:27.439 --> 1:38:30.439 Like tell me you've learned nothing without telling me you've 1:38:30.520 --> 1:38:31.320 learned nothing. 1:38:31.520 --> 1:38:34.040 Oh my god, that's what I mean. 1:38:34.160 --> 1:38:37.240 Yeah, and then she moved back to Canada where she's from, 1:38:37.560 --> 1:38:40.240 and yeah, still hasn't really learned anything. She thinks she's 1:38:40.240 --> 1:38:43.120 a victim. But I also like understand. It's kind of 1:38:43.120 --> 1:38:44.640 when I talk to Andrew Schultzer, I was like, I 1:38:44.720 --> 1:38:47.760 understand as a human being, like when people are like 1:38:47.840 --> 1:38:51.479 you can feel a certain way, like Amy could feel like, fuck, 1:38:51.479 --> 1:38:54.160 I lost my job, everyone hates me, I'm getting death threats. 1:38:54.200 --> 1:38:56.759 I'm the Karen of the universe, Like you can feel 1:38:56.760 --> 1:38:59.160 that as a human, Like I understand, we are all humans, 1:38:59.160 --> 1:39:04.799 and like consequences of anything can be hard as an individual, 1:39:04.920 --> 1:39:07.360 Like you're allowed to have these layered feelings, but then 1:39:07.479 --> 1:39:10.439 you have to work through them, Like you have to 1:39:10.479 --> 1:39:12.519 get through them, you have to realize that you're not 1:39:12.640 --> 1:39:14.800 the true victim of something, you know what I mean, 1:39:14.920 --> 1:39:18.679 Like you can get fired for tweeting something and that's 1:39:18.720 --> 1:39:20.519 not how you feel, and then you talk about and 1:39:20.600 --> 1:39:22.479 learn about it and figure it out and then hopefully 1:39:22.479 --> 1:39:25.640 move through Like I don't know, you can't, just like 1:39:26.200 --> 1:39:28.519 we're all just people and I'm not a Karen and 1:39:29.120 --> 1:39:32.320 Ada da. When you feel like you don't, you don't 1:39:32.360 --> 1:39:35.439 realize the weight of your actions. Chris ended up getting 1:39:35.479 --> 1:39:38.200 his own TV show on the National Geographic Channel and 1:39:38.240 --> 1:39:39.559 hosted a bird show. 1:39:41.400 --> 1:39:44.240 So he's like amazing, Yeah. 1:39:44.800 --> 1:39:49.320 Wow, the most amazing way that this could have ended. 1:39:50.360 --> 1:39:53.960 And I hope I see him in New York one day. Yeah. 1:39:54.439 --> 1:39:58.160 I mean, sure he's trolling people with the dog treats, 1:39:58.200 --> 1:40:00.200 but it's like your dog won't come to him, it's 1:40:00.200 --> 1:40:00.679 off leash. 1:40:01.000 --> 1:40:04.439 Yeah, it's I mean, yeah, he doesn't just always have it. 1:40:04.439 --> 1:40:06.519 It's like he's not bullying the dogs, he's bullying you 1:40:06.560 --> 1:40:09.840 because you're a bad owner. Well let's see if the 1:40:09.880 --> 1:40:12.240 show is still on the their. 1:40:12.520 --> 1:40:15.920 Mm hmm, twenty twenty three. 1:40:17.200 --> 1:40:20.680 I would still go there's no end there's no end date, 1:40:20.720 --> 1:40:23.120 but there's only six episodes total, so maybe it was 1:40:23.160 --> 1:40:24.200 like a limited series. 1:40:24.600 --> 1:40:28.000 He is so cute. Yeah, and he's won an Emmy. 1:40:28.120 --> 1:40:30.280 He won an Emmy for this or for the Marvel 1:40:30.360 --> 1:40:30.920 or Star Truck. 1:40:31.000 --> 1:40:34.240 His his I just saw his Instagram, it says, Emmy 1:40:34.280 --> 1:40:37.120 winning host of Extraordinary Birder. Yes, he won an Emmy 1:40:38.200 --> 1:40:39.800 and author of the New York Times best selling the 1:40:39.880 --> 1:40:42.360 More Better Living Through Birding And then he has a 1:40:42.439 --> 1:40:45.560 go fund me up for kids in the Bronx to 1:40:45.640 --> 1:40:46.960 explore birdwatching. 1:40:47.120 --> 1:40:48.800 I don't know. I like this guy. I think he's 1:40:48.840 --> 1:40:49.320 the best. 1:40:49.600 --> 1:40:52.000 Yeah, like her trying to turn us against him, like 1:40:52.120 --> 1:40:54.439 he's this bully of dogs in the park when like 1:40:54.520 --> 1:40:57.960 all he cares about is birds. Yeah, Like his TV 1:40:58.040 --> 1:41:00.479 show is Birds Notes for a Black Man. And I 1:41:00.560 --> 1:41:03.760 wonder Better Living through Birding? I wonder what it's about. 1:41:04.160 --> 1:41:06.680 And it's like you, I understand, like people that are 1:41:07.320 --> 1:41:10.360 victims of sexual violence obviously can have, like you know, 1:41:10.520 --> 1:41:14.160 a hair trigger response to feeling threatened or something. But 1:41:15.240 --> 1:41:17.960 why did you feel that this man who was in 1:41:18.000 --> 1:41:21.280 the park with a pair of binoculars looking at birds, 1:41:21.880 --> 1:41:23.519 like because of the color of his skin. 1:41:23.360 --> 1:41:24.800 Is why you thought he might attack you or her? 1:41:24.920 --> 1:41:27.200 You like that is why? Yeah, am I gonna read. 1:41:27.240 --> 1:41:29.320 I'm I've put myself on a break and I am 1:41:29.360 --> 1:41:33.280 not buying any other books until I've read at least 1:41:33.320 --> 1:41:34.519 five or six in my collection. 1:41:34.640 --> 1:41:37.200 Okay, well, and then you hold me to it. You 1:41:37.240 --> 1:41:40.120 can read better Living through Birding right after that, then. 1:41:40.000 --> 1:41:43.559 I will be buying this. Then I will be then 1:41:43.640 --> 1:41:46.439 I will be watching it. But yeah, I can't believe 1:41:46.479 --> 1:41:48.120 you want an Emmy. He got a TV show, got 1:41:48.160 --> 1:41:51.679 this book like helping children, like still on his shit. 1:41:51.960 --> 1:41:54.200 And what she doesn't get is like he could have 1:41:54.240 --> 1:41:55.520 helped the das. 1:41:56.040 --> 1:41:58.120 He could have gotten involved, he could have been a witness, 1:41:58.200 --> 1:42:01.080 He could have brought her to court, you know what 1:42:01.160 --> 1:42:02.719 I mean. He could have done a lot of stuff 1:42:03.000 --> 1:42:06.799 he didn't want to. He even is quoted saying everyone 1:42:06.880 --> 1:42:08.559 leave her alone, Like I don't think we should pile 1:42:08.640 --> 1:42:12.000 on her. Like how do you still years later write 1:42:12.040 --> 1:42:13.280 that Newsweek thing? 1:42:13.960 --> 1:42:14.560 Yeah? 1:42:14.600 --> 1:42:19.920 Crazy, Well, I'm glad that we could do a crime 1:42:20.000 --> 1:42:23.080 once in a while. That has sort of an uplifting 1:42:23.160 --> 1:42:24.680 end to it, which is that the Karen had to 1:42:24.680 --> 1:42:26.920 go back to Canada and the man got a. 1:42:26.840 --> 1:42:30.639 TV show And now a word from our sponsors, JK, 1:42:30.840 --> 1:42:32.160 I don't know guess. 1:42:32.160 --> 1:42:34.800 No guests, We've got a guest. We've got a guest, 1:42:34.800 --> 1:42:45.680 So don't go anywhere, okay. Our guest today is an 1:42:45.720 --> 1:42:49.000 award winning cabaret singer and has performed in musical productions 1:42:49.040 --> 1:42:52.360 with the likes of Audre McDonald, Patty Lapone and Edie Falco. 1:42:52.720 --> 1:42:55.280 He is maybe best known for his role with Edie 1:42:55.280 --> 1:42:59.000 Falco as Thor Lundgren on Nurse Jackie, but we know 1:42:59.080 --> 1:43:04.200 him today as sane Nurse Rudy Cindergard. Please enjoy our 1:43:04.240 --> 1:43:06.679 chat with the darling Stephen Wallam. 1:43:07.200 --> 1:43:11.040 So you're drawn to the suburban life, now we are. 1:43:11.200 --> 1:43:14.120 The short version of the story is my We lived 1:43:14.120 --> 1:43:16.360 in the city. My husband and I lived in Manhattan, 1:43:16.800 --> 1:43:20.639 and then he got a job as the artistic director 1:43:20.720 --> 1:43:23.559 of a theater in Kalamazoo, Michigan, which is where he's from. 1:43:24.320 --> 1:43:28.320 And this was right before a year before COVID. Then 1:43:28.640 --> 1:43:32.720 COVID hit and I was lucky enough to actually be 1:43:32.800 --> 1:43:35.439 with my best friend Kara and her family in Los 1:43:35.479 --> 1:43:39.000 Angeles for the first six months of COVID. So we 1:43:39.439 --> 1:43:42.439 had we lost our place in New York. Of course, 1:43:42.560 --> 1:43:46.760 you know my industry, our industry dried up. There was 1:43:46.800 --> 1:43:50.600 nothing I ended up moving to Kalamazoo with him for 1:43:51.040 --> 1:43:54.479 about three years until work started picking up for me. 1:43:54.960 --> 1:43:58.960 Then we were ready to leave there, and our incredibly 1:43:59.120 --> 1:44:03.320 generous dear friend Dye Falco said, I just bought a house. 1:44:03.479 --> 1:44:06.080 There's a guest house. Do you guys wanna you know, 1:44:06.320 --> 1:44:12.200 come then here. So unbelievably we had this beautiful guest 1:44:12.240 --> 1:44:15.240 house to stay in. It was supposed to be a 1:44:15.240 --> 1:44:18.639 short term. It turned into longer. No complaints, of course, 1:44:18.640 --> 1:44:21.799 And we didn't know Westchester County at all, not at all, 1:44:21.840 --> 1:44:24.800 and but we found in love with it, and we 1:44:24.840 --> 1:44:27.120 do like the vibe of I mean there's stuff about 1:44:27.120 --> 1:44:29.639 the city ms of course, but we're closing up. Yeah, 1:44:29.960 --> 1:44:31.760 all on the train into the city so I can 1:44:31.800 --> 1:44:35.599 get in. But yeah, I grew up in the suburban life, 1:44:35.600 --> 1:44:37.840 so it was weird to be, you know, live in 1:44:37.880 --> 1:44:41.240 downtown Chicago and then New York and then suddenly kind 1:44:41.240 --> 1:44:45.080 of go back to the suburban life. But it's great 1:44:45.120 --> 1:44:47.240 because the East Coast is so different, you know, it's 1:44:47.280 --> 1:44:50.360 a very different vibe than the Midwest. So so I 1:44:50.400 --> 1:44:52.280 love it. So that's how we ended up there. I 1:44:52.320 --> 1:44:54.599 love that it was eighty falco cool. 1:44:55.160 --> 1:45:02.080 I mean, the people's princess. Like if anybody ever tells 1:45:02.120 --> 1:45:03.640 me something about about her, am and I'd be like, 1:45:04.240 --> 1:45:07.200 this is I can't I can't hear it well. 1:45:07.080 --> 1:45:10.519 Because it's not true for one thing, you know, and listen. 1:45:10.680 --> 1:45:15.439 She was my very first experience on television, not from 1:45:15.560 --> 1:45:18.880 lack of trying Wistner's Jackie. And I was forty and 1:45:19.320 --> 1:45:22.320 so I had been doing theater. I'd been in the 1:45:22.360 --> 1:45:25.280 business a long time, but my first experience on a 1:45:25.320 --> 1:45:29.360 TV show was that show with her at the Helm. 1:45:30.040 --> 1:45:34.000 And she is the textbook example of number one on 1:45:34.000 --> 1:45:37.080 a call sheet because she is such a pro and 1:45:37.120 --> 1:45:40.960 she's so gracious, and I learned so much and it 1:45:41.000 --> 1:45:44.639 makes every you know, a lot of other sets pale 1:45:44.680 --> 1:45:47.479 in comparison, or at least I'll say, well, it doesn't 1:45:47.560 --> 1:45:49.240 have to be that way, you know, when you see 1:45:49.280 --> 1:45:51.960 any sort of attitude or no, no, no, when you're 1:45:52.040 --> 1:45:54.080 when you're when you're a true pro and you're a 1:45:54.080 --> 1:45:59.000 true star, you don't have to treat anybody unkindly. You 1:45:59.080 --> 1:46:02.080 just don't reason to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And then 1:46:02.120 --> 1:46:06.559 that that led into she's become one of my best friends. 1:46:06.560 --> 1:46:09.639 And obviously she was so gracious to us, and we're 1:46:09.680 --> 1:46:11.640 still now we're just ten minutes away from where we 1:46:11.680 --> 1:46:13.960 lived before, so we're still able to see her, and 1:46:14.000 --> 1:46:16.200 our dogs are still able to see each other, and 1:46:16.360 --> 1:46:19.000 all the dogs got connected. Love that. 1:46:19.880 --> 1:46:24.040 I mean, we obviously are the Nurse Jackie fans, so we. 1:46:24.080 --> 1:46:26.080 Oh good, Oh I didn't know. I did not know. 1:46:26.200 --> 1:46:30.840 I actually watched it before Sopranos. Nurse Jackie was like 1:46:30.880 --> 1:46:33.599 my infro to Edie, and I'm the same. 1:46:33.800 --> 1:46:36.840 I've never really watched full Sopranos. I'm only halfway you guys. 1:46:37.880 --> 1:46:41.360 Yeah, I had just the show and then got it. 1:46:41.479 --> 1:46:43.920 She loved the fact that I said. I told her, 1:46:43.960 --> 1:46:46.479 I said, I've actually never seen the Sopranos and just said, oh, 1:46:46.520 --> 1:46:50.960 bless you. Yeah, because she got so she still gets tired. 1:46:51.160 --> 1:46:54.200 She understands it's an iconic role and an iconic show. 1:46:54.320 --> 1:46:57.160 But you know, when people just know her from that 1:46:57.360 --> 1:46:59.559 and that's all they want to talk about. She's so 1:46:59.640 --> 1:47:02.759 happy to meet people that don't know her as Carmelos soprano, 1:47:02.920 --> 1:47:05.040 then you know. And that was me. So I was 1:47:05.080 --> 1:47:07.599 able to learn I had no frame of reference, which 1:47:07.600 --> 1:47:10.320 is great. The whole cast what a good show. 1:47:10.840 --> 1:47:13.360 Well, so how did, like, because I'm so interested in 1:47:13.400 --> 1:47:15.200 how like you were this I can't. 1:47:15.280 --> 1:47:16.759 First of all, I think that's so crazy. 1:47:16.800 --> 1:47:19.320 This is your first television role is in Nurse Jackie, 1:47:19.360 --> 1:47:23.120 because you seem like a veteran television actor when I'm 1:47:23.120 --> 1:47:26.479 watching Nurse Jackie, Like seriously, I thought you and Merrett 1:47:26.479 --> 1:47:28.760 Weaver and everybody on that show just seemed like they've 1:47:28.800 --> 1:47:31.080 been acting for since they were one year old, like 1:47:31.120 --> 1:47:33.320 you know, just everybody. I mean, you had been acting. 1:47:33.520 --> 1:47:36.320 But like, television acting is different than theater acting. 1:47:36.560 --> 1:47:40.320 I learned trial by Fire. I really did, because I 1:47:40.360 --> 1:47:43.839 really didn't have anybody sit me down beforehand and say, Okay, 1:47:43.880 --> 1:47:46.040 this is what to expect, this is what it's going 1:47:46.120 --> 1:47:48.640 to be like. And in a way, I'm kind of 1:47:49.000 --> 1:47:52.040 grateful because it really forced me to stay on my 1:47:52.120 --> 1:47:55.120 toes because there was no time for me to learn, 1:47:55.280 --> 1:47:57.439 so to speak. There was no time for somebody to 1:47:57.439 --> 1:48:00.000 sit back and go, okay, so you know this is 1:48:00.120 --> 1:48:03.719 what's going to happen. No, you are shoved in, go yeah, 1:48:03.760 --> 1:48:07.400 and you either sink or swim. So it's kind of 1:48:07.520 --> 1:48:10.719 it and I found that I loved it, so that 1:48:10.720 --> 1:48:13.120 that helps you because it is such a completely different 1:48:13.200 --> 1:48:17.160 muscle than being in theater, and quite frankly, I love 1:48:17.200 --> 1:48:19.680 it because it's a it's a little less work that 1:48:19.760 --> 1:48:22.800 I'm being honest. You know on stage you've both been 1:48:22.800 --> 1:48:25.720 on stage, right, I'm guessing, yeah, so you know you've 1:48:25.760 --> 1:48:29.200 got to put that extra something out there, and then 1:48:29.200 --> 1:48:31.599 when you're behind the camera, you're like, oh, I can 1:48:31.960 --> 1:48:35.200 I don't have to work so hard? And I kind 1:48:35.200 --> 1:48:37.200 of love that the older I got and still do, 1:48:38.760 --> 1:48:40.760 I don't you know, can I do this with a 1:48:40.760 --> 1:48:43.519 little less effort and great and get paid for it? 1:48:44.240 --> 1:48:47.479 But what's hard is like the sustaining of energy. I 1:48:47.520 --> 1:48:49.360 feel like if you're on set all day but they're 1:48:49.360 --> 1:48:51.880 not using you because you're not that important. 1:48:51.520 --> 1:48:51.600 And. 1:48:53.160 --> 1:48:56.519 Then you do have to wake up, Yeah you gotta 1:48:56.880 --> 1:48:58.960 snap into it, but you've just been eating like hot 1:48:59.000 --> 1:49:00.000 food snacks all day. 1:49:00.479 --> 1:49:03.320 Yeah. Yeah. 1:49:03.360 --> 1:49:06.240 And that's why I again, I have no patience for 1:49:06.360 --> 1:49:09.280 back to you know, sort of attitudes on set when 1:49:09.320 --> 1:49:13.679 I hear about actress complaining because they've been waiting all day, 1:49:13.760 --> 1:49:16.880 and I just want to say, I'm sorry. 1:49:16.680 --> 1:49:19.599 Yeah you've been You get freak mood at all times. 1:49:19.920 --> 1:49:22.519 You're probably on a very comfortable sofa, right now you 1:49:22.560 --> 1:49:25.799 get to watch movies on the you know there's free internet. 1:49:26.439 --> 1:49:29.280 Please don't This is part of the deal. So yeah, 1:49:29.320 --> 1:49:32.559 you're gonna wait a lot, but don't complain about it, 1:49:32.720 --> 1:49:33.800 you know, for the most part. 1:49:34.080 --> 1:49:36.760 But you know, we have something in common. I was 1:49:36.800 --> 1:49:40.760 in Horace and Pete too, you were. Yeah, I was 1:49:40.760 --> 1:49:44.080 one of the girls at the bar, so we're both 1:49:44.080 --> 1:49:46.160 in the first episode. And then he kept bringing me back, 1:49:46.200 --> 1:49:48.240 so I got to watch your best friend Edi act 1:49:48.280 --> 1:49:51.520 a lot. And then I also saw her in like clogs, 1:49:51.560 --> 1:49:53.280 and then I was I was like, I'm gonna wear 1:49:53.320 --> 1:49:55.559 clogs now too, you know, like I like the way 1:49:55.720 --> 1:49:56.839 she looked in the clogs. 1:49:57.600 --> 1:49:59.720 I was just in that first scene. So were you 1:49:59.800 --> 1:50:01.000 at bar in that scene? 1:50:01.080 --> 1:50:04.479 Yeah, I'm at the bar with Nick Depolo, And it 1:50:04.560 --> 1:50:07.120 was like, I think it was my first gig because 1:50:07.840 --> 1:50:10.000 our scripted. And then I couldn't believe it because Alan 1:50:10.040 --> 1:50:11.679 Alda's there and Jessica Lang. 1:50:11.720 --> 1:50:15.320 Oh, It's like really insane, wasn't that? And then did 1:50:15.320 --> 1:50:16.479 you end up watching the whole thing? 1:50:16.600 --> 1:50:19.040 I mean, it's really what Laurie Metcalf and the Karen 1:50:19.080 --> 1:50:20.200 Pittman episode. 1:50:20.479 --> 1:50:23.439 Yeah, I'm obsessed. I mean it's such a It was 1:50:23.479 --> 1:50:26.240 such a special thing. It was such a throwback to 1:50:26.320 --> 1:50:29.560 something they would have created in the fifties and sixties, 1:50:29.600 --> 1:50:32.320 like a playhouse ninety or some you know, it was 1:50:32.400 --> 1:50:38.200 so unusual, and I just thought it was kind of remarkable, 1:50:38.400 --> 1:50:42.599 you know, and and weird because you know, well. 1:50:42.680 --> 1:50:46.120 Yeah, yeah, but I had the lessons that you kind 1:50:46.120 --> 1:50:48.080 of had on Nurse Jackie, where I was like, oh, 1:50:48.120 --> 1:50:51.599 everyone here is like working for sag minimum. Jessica Lang 1:50:51.680 --> 1:50:55.960 is napping on a couch. Everyone's chill. So I'm like, oh, 1:50:56.000 --> 1:51:00.000 so people are chill like, and so when people are misbehaving, 1:51:00.160 --> 1:51:03.720 I go, well, Steve Buscemi wasn't like it is. 1:51:04.040 --> 1:51:08.559 It was a really cool experience to see people dressing rooms. 1:51:08.600 --> 1:51:11.120 You know, we were sitting in folding chairs and we 1:51:11.120 --> 1:51:14.240 weren't we were paid scale. And yeah, now that you 1:51:14.280 --> 1:51:17.719 mentioned it, I just have to say. That's when I 1:51:17.760 --> 1:51:21.840 got the script and I knew what the role was, 1:51:21.880 --> 1:51:23.799 but I hadn't read the script. And then it said 1:51:24.240 --> 1:51:26.240 and then I forget what her character's name was. I 1:51:26.240 --> 1:51:30.360 think it was Margaret Margaret walks in in parentheses Jessica Lang, 1:51:30.520 --> 1:51:33.960 and I lost my mind. She was one of my 1:51:34.280 --> 1:51:39.559 top three actresses that I were the actor or actress? 1:51:39.560 --> 1:51:41.920 Who am my kidding? So when I saw that I 1:51:41.960 --> 1:51:43.400 was going to be in a scene with her in 1:51:43.439 --> 1:51:46.559 any capacity, I lost my mind. And I still can't 1:51:46.560 --> 1:51:48.679 believe it. I still can't believe it. And then Alan, 1:51:48.840 --> 1:51:51.080 then I'm talking to Alan all the you know, I 1:51:51.120 --> 1:51:53.920 will never ever, I don't care how old I get. 1:51:54.640 --> 1:51:57.679 Those are moments that I will never take for granted 1:51:57.880 --> 1:52:00.960 or I will that excitement of you know, ten year 1:52:01.040 --> 1:52:04.160 old me who dreamed of doing this my entire life. 1:52:04.160 --> 1:52:07.360 And I'm sitting across the table from Jessica Lang doing 1:52:07.400 --> 1:52:10.439 a table read and then she she just she's looking 1:52:10.439 --> 1:52:11.840 at me just like that. You know, I look up 1:52:11.880 --> 1:52:14.280 and she's just she's just like anybody, looking like what 1:52:14.479 --> 1:52:17.640 is going on? You know? It was amazing and I 1:52:17.680 --> 1:52:19.519 never want to lose that. And you know, I think 1:52:19.560 --> 1:52:22.240 in that case, and even on Nurse JACKI too talking 1:52:22.280 --> 1:52:27.639 about how there if you see that entire cast, we 1:52:27.680 --> 1:52:31.479 all came from the theater originally, and I think that 1:52:31.560 --> 1:52:34.080 makes a huge difference. I think it does. And I 1:52:34.080 --> 1:52:37.519 think these young kids that often want to go right 1:52:37.560 --> 1:52:41.360 from school into TV and film and even say, I mean, 1:52:41.400 --> 1:52:45.120 I remember once on set there was a young guest 1:52:45.400 --> 1:52:47.960 guest actor who was I think still in college, and 1:52:48.000 --> 1:52:50.040 I basically heard them say, well, yeah, I don't I 1:52:50.040 --> 1:52:51.800 don't want to waste my time with theater. I want 1:52:51.800 --> 1:52:55.240 to go right to it. And I just want to say, oh, dude, 1:52:55.320 --> 1:53:01.519 you're actually you're you are depriving yourself the experience that's 1:53:01.560 --> 1:53:05.760 going to help you in film and TV because, uh, 1:53:06.080 --> 1:53:09.400 casting directors love theater people. I was told that when 1:53:09.400 --> 1:53:12.360 they saw my resume, like, oh, we love seeing theater 1:53:12.439 --> 1:53:15.920 credits because there's a different work ethic that's taught in 1:53:15.960 --> 1:53:19.439 the theater that you know, you know. 1:53:20.120 --> 1:53:22.280 I want to know how this like SVU Park came 1:53:22.320 --> 1:53:24.400 about for you, because like, to me, it feels like 1:53:24.439 --> 1:53:27.120 an easter egg, almost like they know that the people that. 1:53:27.080 --> 1:53:28.519 Watch Nurse Jackie watch USVU. 1:53:28.600 --> 1:53:30.840 I just feel like the man diagram of that show 1:53:31.000 --> 1:53:34.479 is a whole and so like I was like, when 1:53:34.520 --> 1:53:37.200 I saw you first on your first episode season twenty one, 1:53:37.240 --> 1:53:38.640 I was like, freak No. 1:53:39.800 --> 1:53:42.600 I was almost like, is this the same hospital? Is 1:53:42.600 --> 1:53:44.679 this supposed to be the hop where Jackie works? 1:53:44.800 --> 1:53:47.160 Like I would, But then of course you're playing a 1:53:47.200 --> 1:53:48.080 totally different character. 1:53:48.560 --> 1:53:51.519 I don't know you're have you like? Well, I want 1:53:51.600 --> 1:53:53.799 let's start. How did it like? How did the SVU 1:53:53.840 --> 1:53:57.639 park come about? Well, this was an every actor's dream. 1:53:57.880 --> 1:54:01.800 It was just playing Offer to Love. And it's because 1:54:01.960 --> 1:54:06.080 of Deer Dear one of my heroes, Warren Light, who 1:54:06.280 --> 1:54:10.080 was showrunner at the time that I was there, and 1:54:10.840 --> 1:54:15.240 who started out as a playwright and very good friend 1:54:15.240 --> 1:54:18.880 of Edie's by the way, because he looked Man, which 1:54:18.920 --> 1:54:21.000 was kind of the play that put Edie on the 1:54:21.040 --> 1:54:24.439 map as far as in the theater. So it's you know, 1:54:24.479 --> 1:54:28.160 everybody's connected. But I didn't meet Warren through Eightie. I 1:54:28.280 --> 1:54:31.320 met him. He had written a pilot another medical show 1:54:32.600 --> 1:54:36.280 before he was on SVU. I think, I don't think 1:54:36.320 --> 1:54:39.920 it was the same time, but and I was brought 1:54:39.920 --> 1:54:43.480 in for the pilot and it was another hospital show, 1:54:44.000 --> 1:54:46.800 but I think it was for a doctor this time. 1:54:46.840 --> 1:54:50.080 I don't really remember. He wanted to cast me in. 1:54:50.160 --> 1:54:53.080 The director did not, so I didn't get the pilot. 1:54:53.080 --> 1:54:56.200 And that's okay, it happens. But I would talk to 1:54:56.280 --> 1:54:58.240 him or see him a bit, and he would always 1:54:58.240 --> 1:55:01.720 be apologizing that he felt so bad that I wasn't 1:55:01.760 --> 1:55:04.800 cast in that pilot. I'm like, oh, Warren, it happens 1:55:04.840 --> 1:55:07.320 all the time, I get it. But he felt so bad. 1:55:07.360 --> 1:55:10.400 He felt so bad. So then this role comes along 1:55:10.920 --> 1:55:14.320 for this sane nurse which I had not seen the 1:55:14.400 --> 1:55:21.040 term before, a sexual assault nurse examiner. And it don't 1:55:21.520 --> 1:55:24.360 I think it was written as male. I'm pretty sure 1:55:24.360 --> 1:55:27.640 it was. And it came up and Warren told me, well, 1:55:27.760 --> 1:55:29.720 this came up, and I said, why are we seeing people? 1:55:29.840 --> 1:55:33.080 Let's offer it to Stephen Wallam. And you know that 1:55:33.240 --> 1:55:36.400 almost never happens unless you're you know, Julia Roberts or 1:55:36.840 --> 1:55:39.760 so I couldn't have been happier. It was just plain 1:55:39.920 --> 1:55:44.960 offered here and then, needless to say, so surreal to 1:55:45.080 --> 1:55:49.480 be back in Blue Scrubs again. And I was confused 1:55:49.520 --> 1:55:53.320 too because and so were the viewers at first, because 1:55:53.480 --> 1:55:56.960 I don't think my character name, No, it wasn't my 1:55:57.000 --> 1:56:00.600 first episode. Nobody ever said my name, so I had 1:56:00.640 --> 1:56:03.680 plenty of people think, oh, well that's where Thor went 1:56:03.800 --> 1:56:09.240 work now after yeah, after all Saints closed? And who 1:56:09.320 --> 1:56:11.360 was I to say, you know, well maybe not, maybe 1:56:11.360 --> 1:56:14.160 that's a little less confusing. So I know it was. 1:56:14.280 --> 1:56:18.440 It was strange. So I still to this day, you know, 1:56:18.840 --> 1:56:20.840 and Warren is one of the good ones. He is 1:56:20.960 --> 1:56:24.240 one of the good ones in this business in every 1:56:24.320 --> 1:56:27.800 possible way, and I'm grateful to him for so many reasons. 1:56:27.840 --> 1:56:29.040 So that's how that all started. 1:56:29.280 --> 1:56:33.440 Well, because people also really love him, especially during post 1:56:33.440 --> 1:56:36.960 COVID era, and probably you were a part of there. 1:56:37.000 --> 1:56:39.240 But like so he got theater people work and they 1:56:39.240 --> 1:56:42.040 were back working, probably the quick take of any production, 1:56:42.320 --> 1:56:44.600 and it's ye, he seems great. 1:56:44.800 --> 1:56:48.960 How were the COVID years of Well, it's interesting because 1:56:49.000 --> 1:56:53.000 the episode that you picked that we're talking about is 1:56:53.600 --> 1:56:59.360 my first episode back during lockdown. So I will especially Remae, 1:56:59.360 --> 1:57:01.880 even though you know my scene is brief. I just 1:57:01.880 --> 1:57:05.040 have one scene, but I will of course never forget 1:57:05.080 --> 1:57:09.640 it because it was my first time back and it 1:57:09.800 --> 1:57:14.280 was the strangest, most surreal day of my life to 1:57:14.680 --> 1:57:18.120 come back because I had already done a few episodes before. 1:57:18.360 --> 1:57:20.960 I think like, yeah, you had done like three in 1:57:21.040 --> 1:57:23.360 season twenty one, and this is the opener of season 1:57:23.360 --> 1:57:23.840 twenty two. 1:57:23.960 --> 1:57:26.440 This is right, and so we're all back, and it 1:57:26.480 --> 1:57:30.160 definitely I do remember that SBU was, if not the first, 1:57:30.200 --> 1:57:32.080 one of the very first that was back in production. 1:57:32.720 --> 1:57:38.680 So to walk back onto a set that everybody's in masks, 1:57:38.800 --> 1:57:44.560 nobody's getting close. When we started to even rehearsing, and 1:57:44.600 --> 1:57:47.960 you know, my thank God for Kelly and Jamie who 1:57:48.000 --> 1:57:51.560 were in the scene with me, because I was so thrown. 1:57:52.040 --> 1:57:56.200 Everything was so bizarre that I started speaking and it's 1:57:56.240 --> 1:57:59.720 like I forgot how to act. It was all the 1:58:00.000 --> 1:58:04.480 logistics around me were so strange that I couldn't just, oh, 1:58:04.880 --> 1:58:07.120 do my thing. You know, I had like three lines. 1:58:07.160 --> 1:58:09.960 It was no big deal. I should have in other circumstances. 1:58:09.960 --> 1:58:12.160 I would have been able to just rattle it off 1:58:12.200 --> 1:58:15.880 and then we're done. But everything was so strange and 1:58:16.000 --> 1:58:19.560 I couldn't even remember the lines and they weren't difficult, 1:58:20.120 --> 1:58:26.560 and you know, we'd cut and or just you know, 1:58:26.600 --> 1:58:29.840 even after rehearsal, and Jamie and Kelly were so great 1:58:29.840 --> 1:58:32.880 about saying because they they said they had already been 1:58:32.960 --> 1:58:35.160 working for a few days or the week before or something, 1:58:35.520 --> 1:58:38.480 but they said, we, you know, don't sweat it. We 1:58:38.560 --> 1:58:41.920 feel exactly the same way. We are so thrown. It 1:58:42.000 --> 1:58:44.280 literally felt like I don't remember how to act in 1:58:44.280 --> 1:58:48.320 front of a camera now. It's so that was weird. 1:58:48.680 --> 1:58:51.800 And the fact that you know, when I talk about 1:58:51.840 --> 1:58:57.280 my first pre COVID experiences on SVU. You know that 1:58:57.280 --> 1:59:03.320 that craft services and lunch. I'm sorry, that was a 1:59:03.440 --> 1:59:07.640 Vegas buffet every time. I had never seen such an 1:59:07.680 --> 1:59:10.720 incredible layout. And I'm talking it was one time for 1:59:10.800 --> 1:59:13.280 lunch there. I'm not kidding you. There was like a 1:59:13.320 --> 1:59:17.000 waffle bar. There was you know it was. It was 1:59:17.320 --> 1:59:19.640 out of the love Boat buffet. You guys aren't old 1:59:19.720 --> 1:59:25.240 enough to remember love Boat, but you know, I just unbelievable. 1:59:25.680 --> 1:59:29.440 So to go from that to what do you want 1:59:29.480 --> 1:59:31.760 for lunch? We're going to bring it to you. A 1:59:31.800 --> 1:59:33.160 PA is going to bring it to you in a 1:59:33.160 --> 1:59:37.080 styrophone box in your your dressing room with everything closed off. 1:59:37.800 --> 1:59:43.160 You know, I of course will never I'm it was 1:59:43.400 --> 1:59:45.480 kind of crazy that this is the episode you picked 1:59:45.520 --> 1:59:48.280 because it all came. I hadn't watched the episode since 1:59:48.560 --> 1:59:50.720 it all came flooding back to me and even I'm 1:59:50.800 --> 1:59:56.240 uncomfortable watching myself in this episode because I I remember 1:59:56.400 --> 2:00:01.560 how awkward and uncomfortable I felt, and to me, it 2:00:01.560 --> 2:00:02.880 may not show to anybody else. 2:00:03.000 --> 2:00:06.800 To me, the performance is not oh see, I feel 2:00:06.840 --> 2:00:13.240 like because we all knew how traumatic New York was 2:00:13.520 --> 2:00:18.320 for people, but especially healthcare workers, and I like thought 2:00:18.360 --> 2:00:21.000 your performance was great because I was like, you were 2:00:21.040 --> 2:00:23.800 showing like the I thought you were showing the like 2:00:24.360 --> 2:00:26.480 not only is does it seem like this guy was 2:00:26.520 --> 2:00:29.400 your friend who's been attacked and is now in a coma, 2:00:29.440 --> 2:00:31.960 so you're upset, but it's also like this on top 2:00:32.040 --> 2:00:35.720 of the horrors that I'm seeing all day long, every day, okay, 2:00:35.880 --> 2:00:37.640 in an emergency room. 2:00:37.680 --> 2:00:42.520 Like you know, I'm very grateful to hear that. That's great, 2:00:42.720 --> 2:00:46.160 you know, but it's hard to go back and because 2:00:46.160 --> 2:00:49.160 I rarely, ever, ever, for anything, go back and watch 2:00:49.200 --> 2:00:53.000 an old episode of mine usually, so I'm always going 2:00:53.040 --> 2:00:55.400 to be very critical. But that's great. Where were you 2:00:55.520 --> 2:00:56.320 that day on set? 2:00:56.400 --> 2:00:59.440 Because that happened the way, like, I don't know, the 2:00:59.440 --> 2:01:02.400 way you were talking about Edie Falco before sounds like 2:01:02.440 --> 2:01:03.960 what a lot of people talk to say to us 2:01:03.960 --> 2:01:08.880 about Mariska Hargitay like and that kind of was like, yeah, Like, 2:01:08.920 --> 2:01:10.880 I mean, well, when you say like, because we've been 2:01:10.880 --> 2:01:12.640 saying that since the beginning. One of the big things 2:01:12.680 --> 2:01:15.240 after like the fiftieth person that was like she's an 2:01:15.280 --> 2:01:17.520 angel on Earth. I was like, that just goes to 2:01:17.520 --> 2:01:19.520 show that when you hear about some number one on 2:01:19.560 --> 2:01:22.680 the call sheet acting like a jackass, that that's just 2:01:22.720 --> 2:01:23.320 who they are. 2:01:23.640 --> 2:01:24.960 That's not the stress of the job. 2:01:25.000 --> 2:01:27.640 Because this is the person who's been leading this show 2:01:27.760 --> 2:01:31.600 for twenty seven years, and everybody pretty much we've talked 2:01:31.640 --> 2:01:35.080 to said she's the best person and leads with humor 2:01:35.120 --> 2:01:36.600 and grace and this and that. So if you can 2:01:36.680 --> 2:01:39.839 do that and not get burnt out or an attitude problem, 2:01:39.920 --> 2:01:41.200 then you're. 2:01:41.080 --> 2:01:46.000 Just a jay Amen. Exactly right, exactly right, because if she, 2:01:46.120 --> 2:01:50.960 of anybody you know, you would think, well, by this point, 2:01:51.040 --> 2:01:54.000 certainly she's over it. She's going to be cranky, She's 2:01:54.040 --> 2:01:57.640 going to be completely the opposite. She is. She is 2:01:57.680 --> 2:02:01.000 she I don't have enough great things that say about her. 2:02:01.040 --> 2:02:04.240 She made me feel so welcome what she did. And 2:02:04.280 --> 2:02:06.960 this isn't me bragging about myself at all, because I 2:02:07.520 --> 2:02:11.360 can't stay I'm doing that just as many insecurities as 2:02:11.520 --> 2:02:14.880 most actors do. And you know, I throw it out there, hope, 2:02:15.080 --> 2:02:17.120 hope it lands, and you know, what can you do? 2:02:17.520 --> 2:02:20.640 But I think it was my second episode with Mushka 2:02:21.280 --> 2:02:25.960 where she just sort of after take and it wasn't 2:02:26.040 --> 2:02:29.480 that there wasn't necessarily anything dramatic that I was doing. 2:02:29.560 --> 2:02:32.240 It was another walk and talk with the she and 2:02:32.320 --> 2:02:35.240 I and I'm describing what's going on with the patient, 2:02:35.400 --> 2:02:38.480 and there's some medical jargon there, and and then in 2:02:38.600 --> 2:02:42.280 between the we cut, and then she just kind of 2:02:42.320 --> 2:02:47.600 made this announcement about you know, Warren. I don't know 2:02:47.640 --> 2:02:51.160 where you got him, but he and he is exactly 2:02:51.440 --> 2:02:54.560 right for this role and his compassion and his and 2:02:54.800 --> 2:02:58.560 I was she didn't have to do that. She didn't, 2:02:58.560 --> 2:03:01.200 And I didn't think I did any thing special. I 2:03:01.280 --> 2:03:03.800 really didn't. I still don't think I did anything special. 2:03:04.280 --> 2:03:07.360 But the fact that she took a moment in front 2:03:07.360 --> 2:03:12.120 of everybody to make me feel like a million bucks 2:03:12.280 --> 2:03:15.680 wow in seeing whatever it was, you know how many 2:03:15.840 --> 2:03:21.400 twenty one, twenty two, I don't know. She didn't have 2:03:21.560 --> 2:03:26.040 to do that, and most stars aren't gonna do that 2:03:26.280 --> 2:03:30.400 because you know, it's unexpected. So that in itself, but 2:03:30.480 --> 2:03:34.800 even if she hadn't done that, she she greets me 2:03:34.920 --> 2:03:38.520 so warmly, a big hug. She's looking right in your face. 2:03:38.920 --> 2:03:41.280 She's got a lot of work to do, but she'd 2:03:41.360 --> 2:03:45.360 never she she always takes a moment to acknowledge, Oh 2:03:45.400 --> 2:03:48.800 you're here, I see you glad you're here. How are you? 2:03:49.200 --> 2:03:51.920 Let's get to work, and that means everything. That's all 2:03:51.960 --> 2:03:53.960 it takes. You don't need to have a star sit 2:03:54.120 --> 2:03:57.400 and become you know, and talk to you for an hour. 2:03:57.480 --> 2:04:01.920 There's no time for that. But and I'm telling you, 2:04:01.920 --> 2:04:05.640 and going back to our misogynist, you know, uh, in 2:04:05.760 --> 2:04:08.920 the world that we are so up and in, they're there, 2:04:09.680 --> 2:04:13.640 you know, she she is, this is her show, this 2:04:13.720 --> 2:04:16.760 is Nobody knows that show better than her, nobody. So 2:04:16.880 --> 2:04:20.160 she comes in and she she has her finger on 2:04:20.280 --> 2:04:24.720 every aspect of it, and she is she speaks her mind. 2:04:25.520 --> 2:04:29.360 But it's always she's always right. It's it's never about 2:04:30.280 --> 2:04:33.440 where's Murska's cappuccino? You know what I mean? It's always 2:04:33.440 --> 2:04:36.480 about Okay, wait a minute. That doesn't really work because 2:04:36.560 --> 2:04:40.120 shouldn't he say this? And and I personally, I think 2:04:40.160 --> 2:04:43.320 there's some actors that can be thrown by that because 2:04:43.320 --> 2:04:45.640 it's quick. It is TV is quick in general, and 2:04:45.680 --> 2:04:48.680 a show like this, the procedural, you know, there's no 2:04:48.760 --> 2:04:50.960 time and you're getting a lot of stuff out, so 2:04:51.480 --> 2:04:54.080 any any minor problem has to be fixed right away. 2:04:54.160 --> 2:04:57.440 So there's a directness there. But to me, I'm excited 2:04:57.440 --> 2:05:00.440 by that because it's somebody who knows what they're talking about, 2:05:00.680 --> 2:05:02.920 and it's all for the good of the whole thing. 2:05:03.680 --> 2:05:06.800 So now, if it were a man, I don't think 2:05:06.800 --> 2:05:09.840 anybody would blink an eye, you know, but people are 2:05:09.920 --> 2:05:12.520 still I don't know if you two have an experience 2:05:12.600 --> 2:05:16.480 with this being females in the world at all, but uh, 2:05:17.120 --> 2:05:19.520 you know, there are plenty of people that that can 2:05:19.560 --> 2:05:24.640 be feel off. You're thrown off by a confident woman 2:05:24.680 --> 2:05:29.840 who knows what she's talking about, and I and that 2:05:30.040 --> 2:05:34.240 that's exactly who she is. And yeah, and I dare 2:05:34.280 --> 2:05:37.280 anybody to to say something negative about her on that show, 2:05:37.360 --> 2:05:42.080 because I really knock people. 2:05:42.160 --> 2:05:45.640 And yeah, no one said there's been a speech though 2:05:45.800 --> 2:05:46.680 that's special for you. 2:05:46.880 --> 2:05:51.920 Yeah, no one said kind of giving them up that 2:05:52.480 --> 2:05:56.000 I just again, I'm I I that was so unexpected 2:05:56.040 --> 2:06:02.760 and unnecessary because uh, but it meant. It meant something 2:06:02.800 --> 2:06:05.640 to me. It really did, because we we so often 2:06:05.800 --> 2:06:09.480 and I'm sure you both can appreciate this too. Doing 2:06:09.520 --> 2:06:12.560 what you love to do. Sometimes all it takes is 2:06:12.640 --> 2:06:15.720 just one person saying, oh, great job. You know, it 2:06:15.720 --> 2:06:18.000 doesn't have to be even bigger than that. Just looking 2:06:18.000 --> 2:06:21.000 you and the ID saying that was great, thank you. 2:06:21.680 --> 2:06:24.680 So when somebody goes out of their way to say 2:06:24.720 --> 2:06:27.360 that in front of other people, when it so rarely 2:06:27.440 --> 2:06:30.200 happens and there's not really time, that's why it sticks 2:06:30.240 --> 2:06:32.440 with me. Again, I don't think I didn't do anything 2:06:33.080 --> 2:06:35.960 emmy worthy in that scene. I didn't. It was I 2:06:36.040 --> 2:06:39.280 was doing my job. But oh my gosh, how lovely 2:06:39.320 --> 2:06:42.200 for you to take the time to say you're doing 2:06:42.240 --> 2:06:44.800 this job great, We're so glad we have you. That 2:06:44.800 --> 2:06:46.920 that means anything. And I tried to do that to 2:06:46.960 --> 2:06:49.400 other people if I'm in that position, because I know 2:06:49.480 --> 2:06:53.040 that's in this world. That's sometimes all it takes is 2:06:53.120 --> 2:06:56.720 that was great, thank you, You're welcome. I appreciate it. It 2:06:56.760 --> 2:06:58.560 whatever so simple as that. 2:06:58.920 --> 2:07:01.160 I sort of feel like they're primed to make there 2:07:01.200 --> 2:07:02.960 be an episode where you have a bigger you have 2:07:03.040 --> 2:07:04.680 a huge like a big do you know what I mean. 2:07:04.720 --> 2:07:06.760 It's like there was a guy who was Taru, the 2:07:06.800 --> 2:07:09.160 technical He would come in and like do the computer stuff, 2:07:09.360 --> 2:07:11.839 and then he had a personal thing where his nephew 2:07:12.280 --> 2:07:15.080 got molested because someone lured him from a video game, 2:07:15.360 --> 2:07:17.800 and he was like helping investigate case. I feel like 2:07:17.920 --> 2:07:20.840 we're close to you having a case where it's someone 2:07:20.880 --> 2:07:22.960 you know or something happens to you, or like we 2:07:23.000 --> 2:07:24.960 got to get the mode, we got to get a 2:07:25.040 --> 2:07:29.400 rooty case that's like closer, or like someone confesses something 2:07:29.400 --> 2:07:32.600 to you that you can't tell because they've confided in you. 2:07:32.720 --> 2:07:35.840 Like I could see there being something. I would love it. 2:07:35.920 --> 2:07:38.240 I would love it because I love going back to 2:07:38.320 --> 2:07:42.600 that set too. It really is, oh, without questioning, one 2:07:42.640 --> 2:07:45.080 of the nicest sets. And again that starts with Murscott. 2:07:45.160 --> 2:07:49.320 It just does. It starts from the number one affects everything, 2:07:49.800 --> 2:07:53.800 and there are so many Now I've not been back. 2:07:54.680 --> 2:07:56.400 Wait have I been back since Warren left? 2:07:59.160 --> 2:08:01.280 You did season two twenty six? You just weren't on 2:08:01.320 --> 2:08:06.880 the last season. Okay, yeah, so you definitely have been right, right, 2:08:07.400 --> 2:08:11.280 Uh okay, I believe you. It's all a blurtout. Yeah again, 2:08:11.400 --> 2:08:13.120 you know so much better than I do. I don't 2:08:13.120 --> 2:08:14.920 know what's going it's just from IMDb. I hope they're 2:08:14.920 --> 2:08:16.920 not lying to me, but yeah, no they're not. 2:08:18.560 --> 2:08:22.680 But yeah, I mean I would love it and I 2:08:22.680 --> 2:08:26.280 will go back into any capacity. That's the truth. So 2:08:27.120 --> 2:08:31.560 I love it. Well, thank you, Rudy Rudy centric. 2:08:32.880 --> 2:08:35.400 Is there anything you want to like plug or promote 2:08:35.440 --> 2:08:36.600 or anything before you go? 2:08:36.760 --> 2:08:39.480 Not at the moment, because the thing I just got over. 2:08:39.880 --> 2:08:42.160 Most of my last twelve months has been about I 2:08:42.880 --> 2:08:47.640 broke my hip in November and no glamorous story at all. 2:08:47.720 --> 2:08:49.400 I stood up to go to the bathroom in the 2:08:49.440 --> 2:08:51.760 middle of the night and got dizzy and fell on myself, 2:08:52.440 --> 2:08:55.400 so that led to that had to heal, and then 2:08:55.400 --> 2:08:57.560 I had to get a full hip replacement in May. 2:08:58.240 --> 2:09:01.880 So my last almost twelve months has been all about 2:09:02.240 --> 2:09:06.080 recovering from that, which is great. So my my career 2:09:06.120 --> 2:09:09.160 understandably was So now you're back, you're ready. Well, good, 2:09:09.200 --> 2:09:12.000 now I'm back and I'm finally feeling like myself. But 2:09:12.040 --> 2:09:14.640 it felt very covid like in a way, like everything's 2:09:14.640 --> 2:09:18.400 sort of but it's good now, I'm I am, I'm back. 2:09:18.480 --> 2:09:22.320 So nothing to plug yet but hopefully soon. Well. Well, 2:09:22.320 --> 2:09:24.200 I'm so glad you're all healed up and ready to 2:09:24.280 --> 2:09:27.240 hit that. Thank you. Yeah, you know, chronic pain. It's 2:09:27.240 --> 2:09:29.680 the son of the gun. I don't care who you are. Yeah, Oh, 2:09:29.760 --> 2:09:30.480 don't break. 2:09:30.240 --> 2:09:36.560 Anything, okay, good note, good note, Stephen, Thank you so much. 2:09:36.560 --> 2:09:38.800 This is amazing, Solungly to meet you. 2:09:42.680 --> 2:09:45.320 Oh my god, I cannot believe we talked to Thorpe. 2:09:45.440 --> 2:09:47.880 I can't believe. He was the nicest person on the planet. 2:09:47.920 --> 2:09:49.920 And I love him, And I just. 2:09:50.000 --> 2:09:52.480 Love people that you could tell they're obsessed with what 2:09:52.480 --> 2:09:54.839 they're doing and happy. I mean, having a hip replaced 2:09:54.840 --> 2:09:56.680 and my mom's been there, it's like not an easy 2:09:56.720 --> 2:09:57.360 fucking thing. 2:09:57.520 --> 2:09:58.120 We need them back. 2:09:58.200 --> 2:10:02.120 I'm like, we need to get He's a veil and 2:10:02.240 --> 2:10:04.880 I do want a story deeper with him. 2:10:05.360 --> 2:10:08.520 I do. Yeah, I think a male. 2:10:09.800 --> 2:10:15.280 Saye nurse is also good for men that are sexually assaulted, 2:10:15.520 --> 2:10:15.720 you know. 2:10:16.080 --> 2:10:19.960 Yeah, yeah, no. And he's great. I mean he's great 2:10:20.000 --> 2:10:23.160 in the show. He's great in everything. And thrilled we 2:10:23.240 --> 2:10:25.280 finally got him on the pod. I mean I always 2:10:25.320 --> 2:10:27.160 say this, but it's like crazy, We've been doing it 2:10:27.200 --> 2:10:29.320 for so long. We still get to be like excited 2:10:29.360 --> 2:10:30.440 about the people we get. 2:10:30.480 --> 2:10:32.840 Still get pumped. I love these people that we get 2:10:32.840 --> 2:10:35.560 to talk to and that I remember seeing him on 2:10:35.600 --> 2:10:36.480 the sidewalk, you know. 2:10:36.920 --> 2:10:39.120 And I'm obsessed with like him and Eity Falco being 2:10:39.160 --> 2:10:40.560 best friends, like if I saw them mount in the 2:10:40.600 --> 2:10:42.560 wild like together. I feel like I would have a 2:10:42.640 --> 2:10:45.480 dissociative like episode. 2:10:45.520 --> 2:10:47.680 I would be like where am I like? 2:10:48.120 --> 2:10:50.280 And as he was talking about her, I was like, 2:10:50.440 --> 2:10:52.120 this is the way people talk about Marishka. It's like 2:10:52.160 --> 2:10:55.640 these women need to lead shows, and like the reputation 2:10:55.960 --> 2:10:59.160 is like women divas, but really it seems like anyone 2:10:59.200 --> 2:11:02.360 that's like a woman number one is kind of killing it. Yeah, 2:11:02.400 --> 2:11:07.520 in terms of personality and work ethic. Yeah, men are 2:11:07.560 --> 2:11:09.520 causing issues obviously. 2:11:09.840 --> 2:11:12.320 To do a post mortem on this episode, it's like, 2:11:12.520 --> 2:11:15.200 we don't need Karen's. We don't need people screaming at 2:11:15.240 --> 2:11:17.520 black people trying to exist or any people of color 2:11:17.600 --> 2:11:18.360 trying to exist. 2:11:19.960 --> 2:11:22.720 I mean I talked about this last week that I 2:11:22.760 --> 2:11:26.040 went to the Giant's exhibit that's like Alicia Keys in 2:11:26.080 --> 2:11:32.560 Swist Speeds collection, and I cried because it's like like, 2:11:32.720 --> 2:11:36.880 let people, let black people do regular, ordinary activities in peace. 2:11:37.800 --> 2:11:39.840 And that was like on one of the placards, on 2:11:40.000 --> 2:11:42.600 one of the pieces, and like one of Derek Adams, 2:11:42.640 --> 2:11:44.600 he has this long piece and it's like the Flotation 2:11:44.880 --> 2:11:47.760 kind of series and it's like just a bunch of 2:11:47.760 --> 2:11:51.960 black people on pool floaties, relaxing and just to show 2:11:52.080 --> 2:11:54.680 leisure and then on the bench was like two young 2:11:54.720 --> 2:11:56.720 black children and they looked at me because I was 2:11:56.720 --> 2:11:58.240 taking a phot and they're like, are we in your way? 2:11:58.280 --> 2:12:00.520 And it's like, not only are you not in my way? 2:12:00.600 --> 2:12:02.720 Like this is all I hope for in terms of 2:12:02.800 --> 2:12:06.720 like seeing art, seeing other people see art, what it represents, 2:12:06.760 --> 2:12:08.920 seeing it in front of me, I don't know. It's 2:12:09.000 --> 2:12:12.160 just like when you don't when you stop to think 2:12:12.200 --> 2:12:15.520 about the black experience in America for a fucking moment, 2:12:15.600 --> 2:12:18.200 it's like, can they just have peace? 2:12:18.960 --> 2:12:20.040 Not even in their own home? 2:12:20.160 --> 2:12:22.920 Breonna Taylor shot in her fucking sleep, you know, it's 2:12:23.000 --> 2:12:28.600 like and they got off. Yeah, it's like, you know, 2:12:28.880 --> 2:12:32.920 Trayvon Martin just walking in his neighborhood, like it really. 2:12:34.240 --> 2:12:39.120 Is, Like it's devastating, It's devastating. Yeah. 2:12:39.640 --> 2:12:42.200 Yeah, And that's why I loved seeing this art, where 2:12:42.280 --> 2:12:46.320 so much of it is just portraying black people relaxing 2:12:47.440 --> 2:12:49.880 and living and how that is like. 2:12:51.920 --> 2:12:52.440 Radical. 2:12:53.120 --> 2:12:57.360 Yeah, like this guy is just a burder, Like this 2:12:57.440 --> 2:13:01.800 guy was just working out in the episode and immediate suspicion, 2:13:02.520 --> 2:13:03.960 immediate untrust. 2:13:04.080 --> 2:13:08.880 Yeah, it's disgusting. Yeah, and then. 2:13:08.760 --> 2:13:10.960 And we have to unlearn it, like we are abroad 2:13:11.000 --> 2:13:12.800 of it, Like I sit and say all this stuff, 2:13:12.800 --> 2:13:15.200 and I'm sure I have moments where I have to 2:13:15.200 --> 2:13:17.920 stop myself and go, oh, are you being biased right now? 2:13:18.000 --> 2:13:20.480 Like you know, it's not like I'm better or I'm 2:13:20.520 --> 2:13:21.560 above this society. 2:13:21.600 --> 2:13:22.320 I'm a part of it. 2:13:22.320 --> 2:13:26.480 It's like we all have to constantly be questioning what 2:13:26.480 --> 2:13:27.000 we're up to. 2:13:27.480 --> 2:13:28.680 Yeah, and I do. 2:13:28.800 --> 2:13:31.720 It's like, yeah, we do talk about we acknowledge the 2:13:31.760 --> 2:13:35.120 show as copaganda. But I would wager to say there 2:13:35.120 --> 2:13:38.960 are other procedural shows that would not take on these 2:13:39.000 --> 2:13:42.560 issues and then would not and if they did, they 2:13:42.560 --> 2:13:44.320 would twist them in a way to be like, well, 2:13:44.360 --> 2:13:47.040 the cops are actually the good the good ones anyway, 2:13:47.200 --> 2:13:50.040 Like at the end of it, Benson is saying, I 2:13:50.080 --> 2:13:51.880 have a lot of work to do, and so does 2:13:52.280 --> 2:13:55.600 every cop you know, And I think those moments on 2:13:55.640 --> 2:13:57.960 the show make me kind of are like why I 2:13:58.000 --> 2:14:01.800 think that this show, even though they are, you know, 2:14:01.920 --> 2:14:07.240 glorifying a few specific police officers, officers of the law, 2:14:07.800 --> 2:14:13.560 I do think that you know, they they are taking 2:14:13.720 --> 2:14:16.680 like these cops take some accountability, which is a further 2:14:16.800 --> 2:14:19.280 fantasy of the law, you know what I mean, Like 2:14:19.400 --> 2:14:21.840 she's taking some accountability, but then. 2:14:21.760 --> 2:14:24.840 Also like iced tea, like that unique perspective of being 2:14:24.880 --> 2:14:25.600 a black office. 2:14:25.680 --> 2:14:28.240 Yeah, and dealing with all of that constantly. 2:14:29.920 --> 2:14:32.800 As Garland said, yeah, I mean we can't even get 2:14:32.800 --> 2:14:35.960 started on Noel Wells, like that whole freaking trial we 2:14:36.040 --> 2:14:40.200 talked about Lindsey Clancy up and like we need the autopsy, 2:14:40.280 --> 2:14:42.840 we need more information about what happened to this poor 2:14:42.960 --> 2:14:43.600 fucking boy. 2:14:44.760 --> 2:14:47.760 But yeah, it's dangerous and that's why like being yeah, 2:14:47.840 --> 2:14:51.560 like it's not safe for black people to be around 2:14:52.080 --> 2:14:53.480 all groups because this isn't the first one. 2:14:53.520 --> 2:14:54.360 Remember the photo. 2:14:54.360 --> 2:14:56.600 I forgot the details of the case, but it's like 2:14:56.920 --> 2:14:59.920 this giant sleepover with grown women and everyone is why 2:15:00.040 --> 2:15:03.560 and that one black woman is dead and it's died. Yeah, 2:15:03.600 --> 2:15:06.080 and it's like the not caring. It's like, Okay, something 2:15:06.120 --> 2:15:09.839 happened with your friend. Why are we not doing everything 2:15:09.880 --> 2:15:12.680 we can? So he obviously was never your fucking friend 2:15:12.840 --> 2:15:15.320 or you did it? Like how are you like if 2:15:15.360 --> 2:15:17.720 something happened to Noett, like why would you be leaving? 2:15:17.760 --> 2:15:20.920 Why would you have his phote? Like yeah, it's so 2:15:21.120 --> 2:15:23.520 fucked up. Yeah, So I was just like crying at 2:15:23.520 --> 2:15:24.720 this museum non stop. 2:15:24.840 --> 2:15:28.280 Yeah, but well, let's move on to what would Sister 2:15:28.320 --> 2:15:30.600 Peg do our weekly segment where we direct you to 2:15:31.120 --> 2:15:35.280 a documentary, an organization, a book, something, because we would 2:15:35.280 --> 2:15:38.480 like to point you to Christian Cooper's book called Better 2:15:38.520 --> 2:15:42.040 Living Through Birding. It's a New York Times bestseller. It 2:15:42.080 --> 2:15:44.840 tells the story of his extraordinary life leading up to 2:15:44.880 --> 2:15:47.640 this now infamous incident in Central Park and shows how 2:15:47.680 --> 2:15:50.200 a life spent looking at the birds prepared him in 2:15:50.240 --> 2:15:52.840 the most uncanny of ways to be a gay black 2:15:52.880 --> 2:15:55.800 man in America today. So check it out at your 2:15:55.800 --> 2:15:59.080 local library or at your local independent bookshop, you guys, 2:15:59.520 --> 2:16:04.560 and we'll to it in our show notes, and then 2:16:04.760 --> 2:16:06.880 it'll be in a story the day this episode comes out, 2:16:06.880 --> 2:16:09.480 and all of those are saved in our WWSPD highlights 2:16:09.520 --> 2:16:13.520 on That's Messed Up Pod Instagram page, all of our 2:16:13.600 --> 2:16:16.520 highlights save all of our old wwspds if you want 2:16:16.560 --> 2:16:16.960 to check them. 2:16:16.920 --> 2:16:20.240 Out, Thank you so much, and also check your biases everyone, 2:16:21.080 --> 2:16:23.200 And then next week we'll be doing our three hundredth 2:16:23.200 --> 2:16:28.360 episode bang from season twelve, episode twenty two, and yeah, 2:16:28.480 --> 2:16:29.800 lots of bangs happen in. 2:16:29.960 --> 2:16:35.119 Episode three hundred. Everybody to my God. 2:16:34.959 --> 2:16:38.640 You know that they all fucked each other. Who the 2:16:38.680 --> 2:16:41.960 three hundred soldiers? Oh my, the movie three hundred. 2:16:41.920 --> 2:16:44.160 I know where you were going with that, Like certain 2:16:44.160 --> 2:16:45.800 times I know where your mind is going and other 2:16:45.879 --> 2:16:46.800 times I really don't. 2:16:47.040 --> 2:16:48.840 Yeah, I saw a thing like That's why I like 2:16:48.920 --> 2:16:51.160 dudes used to like all those soldiers would fuck. 2:16:52.240 --> 2:16:54.920 Yeah, I think that's true in like a kill in 2:16:55.240 --> 2:16:58.200 Trojan War and everything like that as well. That's said 2:16:58.240 --> 2:16:58.840 to have happened. 2:16:58.920 --> 2:17:00.360 Yeah, I'm back. 2:17:00.440 --> 2:17:04.320 Is all long a time, but yeah, we're excited for 2:17:04.360 --> 2:17:05.280 our three hundred episode. 2:17:05.280 --> 2:17:07.040 We love our tommies. It's going to be a really 2:17:07.040 --> 2:17:17.080 good one. So better see you there, Bye bye. 2:17:19.320 --> 2:17:21.520 That's Messed Up as an exactly right production. 2:17:21.959 --> 2:17:24.039 If you have compliments you'd like to give us or 2:17:24.120 --> 2:17:26.360 episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email 2:17:26.360 --> 2:17:29.680 it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to 2:17:29.760 --> 2:17:32.680 That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 2:17:32.680 --> 2:17:34.119 wherever you get your podcasts. 2:17:34.280 --> 2:17:37.440 Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod, 2:17:37.680 --> 2:17:41.520 and follow us personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese. 2:17:41.800 --> 2:17:44.480 As always, please see our show notes for sources and 2:17:44.520 --> 2:17:45.160 more information. 2:17:45.600 --> 2:17:48.600 Thank you, so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien 2:17:48.760 --> 2:17:51.720 and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and. 2:17:51.760 --> 2:17:55.080 To our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner, 2:17:55.240 --> 2:17:57.920 and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly 2:17:58.040 --> 2:18:00.640 Geen Andrews for our artwork. I thank you to our 2:18:00.680 --> 2:18:05.279 executive producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer and everybody 2:18:05.280 --> 2:18:06.320 at Exactly Right Media. 2:18:07.240 --> 2:18:08.040 Dun Dun