WEBVTT - Ep36 - David Lowery / “A Ghost Story” 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.840 We're listening to playback a Variety podcast. I'm your host, 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:25.560 Variety Awards Editor Chris Tapley. The Sundance Film Festival was 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:27.600 about six months ago, but lately a number of the 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:30.160 films from this year's lineup are finally making it the theaters. 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.320 Movies like The Hero with Sam Elliott, The Big Sick 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.400 with Kumail Nan, Johnny and Beatrice at Dinner with sal 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.400 Mahaiak have already hit. Others like Landline with Jenny Slate 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:42.880 and To the Bone with Keanu Reeves are rolling around 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:46.080 this month, and we have stuff like Patty Cakes, Ingrid 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.159 Goes West and Crown Heights coming up in August. My 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:52.000 guest today premiered his latest A Ghost Story, at the fest, 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:54.680 and to my mind, it's the single greatest film of 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.080 the year so far. His name is David Lowry, and 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:58.720 we're very happy to have him on the show today. 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:00.440 Thanks for coming on, David, Thank you very much for 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.960 having me. Uh So start there with Sundance. You've been 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:05.640 there a few times yet, Yeah, this was my third 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:07.800 time there. So what was the experience like this time 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.279 compared to other trips. I'm sure completely different. It's completely different. 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:13.600 But at the same time, it never doesn't feel like 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:15.680 the first time. I mean, there's no time like the 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:17.319 first time. The first time you go to the Sundance. 0:01:17.360 --> 0:01:19.320 It's it's one of the best will be one of 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.200 the best experiences of any filmmaker's life, undoubtedly, But it 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:26.760 you know, it always presents itself a new as a 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.920 as a place of great joy and fear and frustration 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:36.160 and and uh and yeah, it always manages to reinvent 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:37.959 itself in exactly the same way every time you go 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:42.080 with new movies. So with this movie, it was very 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:44.080 close to the first, very similar to when I went 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.240 with my first short film, probably because you know, this 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.400 was a movie that we've made on you know, micro budget, 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:52.560 on our own terms, and we just had no idea 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.320 what the world would make of it, and it felt 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.040 like we were just bringing something very small and handmade 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:02.760 to a giant industrial complex in the snow. So it 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.280 was it was a very intense experience, but ultimately a 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.160 very like a very beautiful one. And it was a wonderful, 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.200 wonderful festival for me this year. You know, I find 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:15.880 this film uh difficult to talk about because like, once 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:17.920 you start explaining it, it it feels like it kind of 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:20.560 starts to unravel and you stop doing it justice, you know, 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:24.800 just the more you try to detail it. Um, you know, 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:28.160 and and that goes for more than just like the 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.800 outer like ghost under issue kind of vibe. I mean, 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.840 just the metaphysical kind of ideas you're dealing with. The 0:02:33.919 --> 0:02:36.840 ideas are so big, and yet the movie is so modest, 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:38.560 The production is so modest. As you said, it was 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.440 micro budgeted. Um. And you know, I feel like only 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:47.880 the only relatively recent film that put me in this 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:52.519 kind of headspace was The Fountain by Daran Aronovsky, which 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:54.560 I which is not at all like this movie, by 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:56.520 the way. It's it's obviously a completely different movie, but 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.800 it's another movie that was dealing with these huge ideas 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.000 and trying to drill them down into an intimate fashion. 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:04.120 So I've come to kind of explaining it is like 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:09.200 it's it's a movie about a spirit, meaning a soul 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.680 more than a specter, and the the space it inhabits 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.480 in the universe. Hopefully that's not a hatchet job. That's 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.600 pretty much how I describe it. I describe it as 0:03:17.720 --> 0:03:21.600 a ghost haunting one space for a long long time, 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.440 and um, I love that you bring up the Fountain 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:28.200 because that movie was very meaningful to me. I love 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:32.280 that movie and I remember, you know, following along with 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.000 it from the first hinse of his existence all the 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.400 way through the aborted Brad Pitt version, and then being 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.040 so happy to finally see it come to fruition in 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.400 the form that it took. And it really it's a 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:43.720 movie that does deal with very big ideas but in 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:48.480 a very simple fashion, and it's very embraceable. It doesn't 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.040 like it's not hitting you over the head with philosophy, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.720 but it just it's a very big, embraceable and very 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.280 human idea that it is at its concept, at its core. 0:03:57.960 --> 0:03:59.920 And uh and so I like that you see it 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:03.320 parallel there because you know, being that I like that movie, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:05.760 I'm sure that there's something of that in a ghost story. 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.920 So where does an idea like this begin for you? 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.480 What's the germ of it? Where did it first grab 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:16.480 you and start to snowball? I in addition, if I 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:19.279 can jump in. In In addition to that, I'm also curious, 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:22.040 like how did you explain it to people to get 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:23.760 them interested, to get them on board? Like how do 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:25.920 you how do you kind of convey your idea once 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.960 you kind of you give birth to it, you know, 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:31.880 when it's something this difficult to pin down. Yeah, I 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:34.960 wrote it very quickly. But the idea of a haunted 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.279 house movie with a ghost represented by someone wearing a 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:40.119 bedsheet was something I've been wanting to do for a while. 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:42.239 I didn't know if it would be a scary movie, 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:44.680 like a high concept horror film that just had a 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:46.760 goofy element in the middle of it, or a weird 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:50.120 art film, or maybe just like a video installation. It 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:51.800 was just something I liked. It was an image that 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:56.200 I really responded to, and I've seen it utilized elsewhere, 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.120 and I just wanted to have my version of it 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:03.080 because I just love that image. And around the time that, 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.479 you know, we were finishing up my last movie, I 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:07.800 had gotten an argument with my wife about where we're 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.320 going to live, and so the idea of home was 0:05:11.520 --> 0:05:14.200 very present on my mind. And how you know, one's 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.880 attachment to one's home can be both a wonderful thing 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:21.440 but also hold you back. And so I just sat 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:24.080 down one night and wrote the script and the first 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:28.839 draft was ten pages. The second draft was about thirty pages, 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:31.920 and you know, I was written within the space of 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:34.359 a week and didn't change that much before we shot it, 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:38.840 and I sent it to my partners in crime, James 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:41.240 and Johnson Tobey Hobbrooks, who produced all my movies, and 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.160 and just said let's make this this summer. And then 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:46.760 I didn't have to explain much to them because they 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:48.640 we just always make things together, so it's sort of 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:50.880 like there's a trust there. But in terms of getting 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:53.719 other folks on board, whether it be that my cinematographer 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.640 or Casey and Rooney, I found the most important thing 0:05:56.960 --> 0:06:00.479 to do was to show like provided usual. So I 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.159 just took some Greg recruits and photographs and uh, without 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:07.240 permission photoshop to ghost into a lot of them, and 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:10.760 that was sort of the visual representation of what I 0:06:10.760 --> 0:06:13.840 wanted this movie to be, and and it was very 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:15.880 clear that was that was exactly everyone saw those I 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.160 was like, okay, we get this, and it was you know, 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:21.920 there was some question about running time, like whether or 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:23.920 not it would be a shorter future, like Rooney read 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:25.440 the script and loved it but wasn't sure if it 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:27.360 could sustain itself for future length, and I was like, well, 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.040 just let's not worry about that it'll be as long 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:30.960 as it needs to be, and let's not put the 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.359 pressure on ourselves to you know, I feel like this 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:35.640 is a movie that has to be a film that 0:06:35.680 --> 0:06:37.760 will hit theaters and sell for a certain number of 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:39.920 amount of money. Like, let's just make this be what 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.240 it needs to be and make it. Let let it 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.279 feel right to us. I'm glad you mentioned that about 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:47.600 Home because I that hit me in the moment, and 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:50.159 I actually had not thought about that slice of it since, 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.000 but that really resonated me with me when I was 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:56.440 watching it, because just to be a little personal, you know, 0:06:57.040 --> 0:07:00.839 I'm in a time where I've lost grandparents, those homes 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.440 that we went to for so many years are in 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:05.560 the process of being sold or whatever. So you start 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.919 to feel that slip away, and uh that, I don't know, 0:07:08.960 --> 0:07:10.720 that just really hit me. Was there some was there 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:13.000 something going on other than you know, you guys talking 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.320 about where you wanted to live beyond that, uh, you know, 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:20.240 personally speaking, just this idea of losing not in something. Yeah, 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.240 not in the in the immediate sense, but I was 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.280 certainly aware of exactly what you're talking about occurring in 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:28.400 the future, you know, like the idea that the house 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:32.600 that my grandparents uh live in is currently unoccupied and 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:35.280 my parents keep talking about like the fact that we're 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:36.960 gonna have to sell it, and I kind of like 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:38.800 desperately wanted to just go buy it just so we 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:40.800 can preserve it, because I want to have that space 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.160 to go back to. Would I ever go back there? 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:44.920 I don't know. It's in Wisconsin, Like I have to 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.080 fly back to Wisconsin just to go steep myself in 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.560 the nostalgia of being in a space. But that is 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:54.240 important to me, Like I want to have that, you know, 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.440 I don't want to shut the door on that opportunity 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.040 or that possibility. I want to have the always have 0:07:59.120 --> 0:08:00.920 the possibility to go back to those places in my 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:05.000 life where so much joy and comforts had at one 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:11.000 point or another. And that is something that is wonderful 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:13.440 to me. It's meaningful to me. But also, you know, 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.200 in certain instances can hold me back, and that can 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:19.120 be as simple as like having too much crap from 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.640 my childhood that I heart from one apartment to you know, 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:24.000 from apartment to house to wherever I'm living, Like I'm 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:26.760 just dragging boxes of detritus from my childhood with me, 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.520 it's not really holding it back, but it's a little bit. 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:31.680 You know, you have to think about closet space in 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:34.760 the bigger scheme of things. When my wife and now 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.080 were having an argument where to live, she really wanted 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:38.800 to live one place, I really wanted to live in another, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:42.120 and we both kind of drew a lie in the sand, 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.240 and for a moment, I could see a point where 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:47.880 our relationship put end over this one issue, which would 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:49.840 have been ridiculous because we love each other very much 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.480 and we are very happy together and we never really fight. 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:55.400 But this was the first time like where I just 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.240 saw like some difference of opinion that was so strong 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.959 that it I could see a way in which it 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.839 could end things. And that was unsettling to me, and 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:09.480 I wanted to unpack that a little bit, and I realized, 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:12.520 you know, I've got this very strong sense of home 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:14.319 because my parents created that for me when I was 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.640 growing up, and I've tried to find that wherever I go, 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:20.240 and wherever I go, I just lay down roots and 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.360 they run fast and thick, and I don't want to 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.640 leave when it's time to leave, and that's fine, like 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:29.280 that's who I am. But I also need to be 0:09:29.320 --> 0:09:32.320 able to adjust to the circumstances I find myself in 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:34.920 and to be able to let go. So that's a 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:38.520 big part of what this movie is about. Interesting who 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:42.400 won the argument? Um, and we both did because we compromised. 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.200 Because we we did, we stayed in l A. Then 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:48.600 we moved back to Texas to after this movie was made, um, 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.280 and then we're, you know, eventually gonna wind up back 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:53.400 here again. So we kind of like feel like being 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:55.800 a b coastal, even though Texas doesn't kind of a 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.880 coast as is the answer. Austin is exploded by the 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:03.240 way in the last like seven years, I just saw 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:05.840 that you thought as I thought was I just saw 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.640 the pictures recently of like the downtown area in two 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.360 thousand ten, like the skyline versus now. I thought someone 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.880 was just playing, look looks like Miami, A little bit 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.480 like Miami. Grew up in middle of Texas, and I 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.960 love Austin to death. Um. But because I grew up, 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:22.679 because I'm a nostalgic person, grew up in Dallas, I 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:25.240 decided to just stay there because it was getting so 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:28.760 expensive to live in Austin. You can probably blame it 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.640 on l A. People coming out, It's okay, I understand, 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.600 it's beautiful there. Uh so this is your second Is 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:37.800 this the second time you've gone out with the Rooney 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:41.640 and Casey on a movie? After Anthingbody Saints? Um? What 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.400 is it about their chemistry that brought you back? I 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:46.480 mean they just like each other. It's like crazy like 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:50.199 they they really changed. What Ain't the Body of Saints 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.440 was just by doing a scene together we shot you know, 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:55.920 what was originally meant to be not a love story 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.000 turned into a love story because they just had so 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.200 much chemistry and you can't want tofy that or you know, 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:05.040 put you know, cause behind other than they just get 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.760 along and just it's kids met and uh and so 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:09.240 on ain't the Body saying? You know? We just ended 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:10.920 up adding a lot more material for the two of 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.400 them because I wanted more with them. And originally it 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:15.040 was going to be very like just a little bit 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:16.480 the beginning, a little bit the end, and that was it. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.560 We we added a bunch more. Um and then with 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:23.840 so with this film, because there's so little on the 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.960 page for these characters, and then particularly so little with 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.160 the two of them together, I wanted to ground the 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.160 film in that chemistry from the get go, so you 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.280 would feel that something was lost when Casey's character dies. 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:40.040 I wanted you to feel that something had been torn asunder. 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:41.800 And I knew that if I brought the two of 0:11:41.840 --> 0:11:44.520 them together that within the me within the space of 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.280 one or two scenes, they would ground this relationship in 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.280 a very real and emotional and wonderful and tactile way, 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.520 and the people would just understand that they care for 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.440 one another. So it was a way to achieve a 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.840 certain shorthand given the amount of running time the movie 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:00.720 was gonna have, an amount of time would have together 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:03.679 and uh and also just the characters. There wasn't much 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:05.120 to them on the page, and they didn't have names, 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.400 and they still don't in the finished film, because I 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.880 didn't want to assign too much to them. I didn't 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.400 want to pretend to the audience that we're gonna have 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:14.439 the story of these two characters and then pull the 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:16.000 rug out from under them. I wanted it to be 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.200 pretty you know, pretty quick that we get into what 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.080 the movie is actually about. You know, he dies within 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.840 the first five or ten minutes, so um, but those 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.119 five or ten minutes are crucial in terms of establishing 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.880 where the movie goes. Did you have them in mind 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.800 when you were writing? Not when I was writing, but 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.120 as soon as it was done. I mean, I didn't 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:34.360 have anything in mind when I was writing because it 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:36.319 was just so fast. It's so it's so funny to 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.800 think about the writing process in this because how fast 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:40.720 did you write it? So I can get upset about it. 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:44.000 I mean, the first draft wasn't it was one evening, 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:45.680 but it was only ten pages, so it's like you can't, 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.319 don't know, need to get upset because it wasn't much 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.760 to it. You know, it's probably like probably two thousand 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.240 words total and that in that document, and then I 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:55.160 expanded it to the thirty pages as the as it 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:57.040 started to take, you know, a stronger shape. But that 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.560 even that only took probably a week. So I'm a 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.120 slow right, it takes me forever to write things, And 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.200 this was a rare instance where I just you know, 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.679 partially there's no dialogue, and dialogues I usually spend the 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:08.880 most time on. It just kind of just went very 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:11.720 quickly and then it was done. And then I started, 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:15.240 you know, assigning names to things in the script, whether 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.600 it be actors or cinematographers, or my production designer. I 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:20.559 was like, Okay, here's what we're gonna do to make 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.719 this movie happen. And one of those things was to 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.320 just call Casey and Running or text them because I'm 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.640 a Texter, and see if they were interested in making 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.000 a weird movie in Texas over the summer. Uh, you're 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:33.640 coming off of I want to venture out a little bit. 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:38.120 You're coming off of Disney's Pete Dragon, which I thought 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.760 was fascinating when you were called on to do the movie, 0:13:40.800 --> 0:13:44.360 because that seems like something Disney, that machine that could 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.880 be like a wood chipper for a filmmaker. And uh, 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.120 you know, first of all, how did you like working 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.160 with I mean, obviously enough that you're coming back for 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.680 Peter Pan, but what was it like working with this 0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:58.120 giant conglomerate on something like that. I mean, it was great. 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.560 I loved it. Like the folks at the studio, like 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:04.920 Sean Bailey is just a wonderful connoisseur of cinema and 0:14:05.040 --> 0:14:09.240 a wonderful producer in his own right. So they want 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:11.720 to make good movies there, and I want to make 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:13.880 good movies too, So we were we were in agreement 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.160 from the beginning, but um, I was certainly worried every 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:19.160 step of the way that because it is a conglomerate 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:20.960 and there is you know, the board of directors and 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.960 so many not cooks in the kitchen kitchen, but so 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.120 many voices that you have to acknowledge and listen to, 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:28.920 that the movie would become something I didn't want it 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.040 to be, you know, every step of the process. I 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.800 was waiting for someone to tell me that I had 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:36.400 to make the Dragon talk or something like that, you know, 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.920 and that never happened. So I was on edge for 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.400 a large portion of the entire three years we spent 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:47.160 in that movie, but unnecessarily so, because ultimately they were 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:48.840 in full support of the movie I wanted to make. 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.400 I wanted to make this movie for them, and we 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.000 just were able to make a movie that made us 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.000 all very happy. And because it was such a great relationship, 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.880 I'm being very careful with our next collaboration because I 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.080 to keep on that train. I want to keep making 0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:03.600 them happy. I want to make a movie that I 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:07.120 like again and make something that's personal for me while 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:10.840 also satisfying the needs of a big studio like that. Um. 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:12.520 But it was a great experience. I didn't you know 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:17.160 I started off. You know, that project began right before 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:18.880 and The Body Is Saying is premiered at Sundance, So 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.440 it was sort of ancillary to that. It wasn't it 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.320 wasn't a result of that movie, but you know the 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.160 um but certainly that played a part of it. Like 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.080 people took me a little more seriously because they knew 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.280 this movie was coming out. But it was a short 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:32.160 film that I had made called Pioneer, which was was 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:34.840 about a father telling a son and bedtime story, and 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:37.360 I think that's what really got the producers of Pete 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.400 Dragon excited about what I could bring to that. And 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:41.840 at that point, I was just a screenwriter with my 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.400 partner Toby Hobrooks. We were just writing it and we 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.800 didn't embark upon the process of uh making it with 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:50.720 me as a director for another year. We spent a 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:52.760 year on the script before that, even into the equation 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.600 and speaking of Peter Pan, I mean, I don't I 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:57.160 don't know where you're at on it now, but I 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.440 am very curious just because that's the story we've seen 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:03.160 many many times from many angles, So like, what are 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.360 your ideas in terms of coming at it differently and 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.000 presenting something fresh. I've got those ideas. I don't want 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.400 to reveal them here, but I do want I do 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:16.160 acknowledge that there are a lot of versions of this material, 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.000 Like there's there that is a big question, like why 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.000 do we need another Peter Pan movie. Um. At the 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.480 same time, it is an evergreen property to a certain extent, 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:26.400 and I do believe that if you can do it right, 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.680 it kind of like makes that question irrelevant. You can 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:31.520 kind of you can kind of make people feel like 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:33.400 they're seeing it for the first time. That would be 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:38.520 the challenge I have set for myself. Um, And you 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:40.600 know it's tough though. I love the Pja Hogan version. 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:42.880 I think that is the perfect version of Peter Pants. So, like, 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:44.520 what else can I bring to the table? I have 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.080 some ideas. I'm working on it with Toby. Again, we're 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:52.200 in the screenwriting phase still, and if it feels right, 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.720 we'll make it. And I am excited about that possibility, 0:16:54.760 --> 0:16:57.080 but I also wanted to feel right. So we're just 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.560 gonna see see where that process takes us on the 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:02.800 page before we before we embark on the great journey 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:04.680 of you know, the great thing is it will take 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:06.800 long enough to make the by time it comes out, 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.280 it will have been at least five years since the 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.760 last version, So that's good. So that's good. You got 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.359 a little distance. Well, just broadly speaking, I mean, you know, 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.160 you look at something like Pete Dragon and there there's 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.400 something about the tone and scale there. I mean, with 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:23.080 with Peter Pan, do you expect it to be big? 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.920 Do you expected to be a little bit bigger than 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.120 Pete Dragon just by nature of what it is. But 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:32.520 it's important to me to not fall victim to just 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:35.960 bloat and scope, because a movie feels a need to 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:39.760 be big, Like if you could make a giant summer 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.600 blockbuster feel intimate, which can't happen. I mean, I feel 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.320 Fury Road manage that pretty expectively. Even that was NonStop, 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.800 you know, thrills from start to finish. I think Planet 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:51.600 of the Apes achieves that this can't wait to see it. 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.399 I'm very excited to see that, So that would be 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:57.280 my goal. Like, I don't want to just like rehash 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.119 the final battle from any one of the Pie to 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:02.600 the Caribbean movies at the end of this film, except 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:04.960 throwing some flying kids. You know, that's not my intention, 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:08.040 nor would I be personally interested in seeing that. So 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:10.200 it's always like trying to find that balance, like, yes, 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:12.200 this is a movie that will probably cost a certain 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:13.960 amount of money. It has to have spectacle to it 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:17.240 to justify that cost um. And at the same time, 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:20.600 I want to make myself happy as in a movie goer, 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:22.080 and the last thing I want to see is just 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.439 another pointless battle, just because it feels like it's the 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:25.679 third act of the movie and they need to have 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:28.919 a battle. So finding that balance will be tricky. I 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.000 do feel up to the challenge, but it's definitely like 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:32.720 that's one of the things that's on my mind. And again, 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.000 like I had such a great relationship with Disney on 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:37.239 Pete Dragon, I want to make sure we keep that 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.520 going in in a good fashion and if we ever 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.159 feel like this isn't the right fit or anything like that, 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:46.240 then we'll find something else. Because again, big fans of 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.320 them over there, good look with that. I'm very interested 0:18:48.320 --> 0:18:52.159 in that. Uh. I want to talk about film editing. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.199