Speaker 1: We're listening to playback a Variety podcast. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Variety Awards Editor Chris Tapley. The Sundance Film Festival was
Speaker 1: about six months ago, but lately a number of the
Speaker 1: films from this year's lineup are finally making it the theaters.
Speaker 1: Movies like The Hero with Sam Elliott, The Big Sick
Speaker 1: with Kumail Nan, Johnny and Beatrice at Dinner with sal
Speaker 1: Mahaiak have already hit. Others like Landline with Jenny Slate
Speaker 1: and To the Bone with Keanu Reeves are rolling around
Speaker 1: this month, and we have stuff like Patty Cakes, Ingrid
Speaker 1: Goes West and Crown Heights coming up in August. My
Speaker 1: guest today premiered his latest A Ghost Story, at the fest,
Speaker 1: and to my mind, it's the single greatest film of
Speaker 1: the year so far. His name is David Lowry, and
Speaker 1: we're very happy to have him on the show today.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on, David, Thank you very much for
Speaker 1: having me. Uh So start there with Sundance. You've been
Speaker 1: there a few times yet, Yeah, this was my third
Speaker 1: time there. So what was the experience like this time
Speaker 1: compared to other trips. I'm sure completely different. It's completely different.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, it never doesn't feel like
Speaker 1: the first time. I mean, there's no time like the
Speaker 1: first time. The first time you go to the Sundance.
Speaker 1: It's it's one of the best will be one of
Speaker 1: the best experiences of any filmmaker's life, undoubtedly, But it
Speaker 1: you know, it always presents itself a new as a
Speaker 1: as a place of great joy and fear and frustration
Speaker 1: and and uh and yeah, it always manages to reinvent
Speaker 1: itself in exactly the same way every time you go
Speaker 1: with new movies. So with this movie, it was very
Speaker 1: close to the first, very similar to when I went
Speaker 1: with my first short film, probably because you know, this
Speaker 1: was a movie that we've made on you know, micro budget,
Speaker 1: on our own terms, and we just had no idea
Speaker 1: what the world would make of it, and it felt
Speaker 1: like we were just bringing something very small and handmade
Speaker 1: to a giant industrial complex in the snow. So it
Speaker 1: was it was a very intense experience, but ultimately a
Speaker 1: very like a very beautiful one. And it was a wonderful,
Speaker 1: wonderful festival for me this year. You know, I find
Speaker 1: this film uh difficult to talk about because like, once
Speaker 1: you start explaining it, it it feels like it kind of
Speaker 1: starts to unravel and you stop doing it justice, you know,
Speaker 1: just the more you try to detail it. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: and and that goes for more than just like the
Speaker 1: outer like ghost under issue kind of vibe. I mean,
Speaker 1: just the metaphysical kind of ideas you're dealing with. The
Speaker 1: ideas are so big, and yet the movie is so modest,
Speaker 1: The production is so modest. As you said, it was
Speaker 1: micro budgeted. Um. And you know, I feel like only
Speaker 1: the only relatively recent film that put me in this
Speaker 1: kind of headspace was The Fountain by Daran Aronovsky, which
Speaker 1: I which is not at all like this movie, by
Speaker 1: the way. It's it's obviously a completely different movie, but
Speaker 1: it's another movie that was dealing with these huge ideas
Speaker 1: and trying to drill them down into an intimate fashion.
Speaker 1: So I've come to kind of explaining it is like
Speaker 1: it's it's a movie about a spirit, meaning a soul
Speaker 1: more than a specter, and the the space it inhabits
Speaker 1: in the universe. Hopefully that's not a hatchet job. That's
Speaker 1: pretty much how I describe it. I describe it as
Speaker 1: a ghost haunting one space for a long long time,
Speaker 1: and um, I love that you bring up the Fountain
Speaker 1: because that movie was very meaningful to me. I love
Speaker 1: that movie and I remember, you know, following along with
Speaker 1: it from the first hinse of his existence all the
Speaker 1: way through the aborted Brad Pitt version, and then being
Speaker 1: so happy to finally see it come to fruition in
Speaker 1: the form that it took. And it really it's a
Speaker 1: movie that does deal with very big ideas but in
Speaker 1: a very simple fashion, and it's very embraceable. It doesn't
Speaker 1: like it's not hitting you over the head with philosophy,
Speaker 1: but it just it's a very big, embraceable and very
Speaker 1: human idea that it is at its concept, at its core.
Speaker 1: And uh and so I like that you see it
Speaker 1: parallel there because you know, being that I like that movie,
Speaker 1: I'm sure that there's something of that in a ghost story.
Speaker 1: So where does an idea like this begin for you?
Speaker 1: What's the germ of it? Where did it first grab
Speaker 1: you and start to snowball? I in addition, if I
Speaker 1: can jump in. In In addition to that, I'm also curious,
Speaker 1: like how did you explain it to people to get
Speaker 1: them interested, to get them on board? Like how do
Speaker 1: you how do you kind of convey your idea once
Speaker 1: you kind of you give birth to it, you know,
Speaker 1: when it's something this difficult to pin down. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: wrote it very quickly. But the idea of a haunted
Speaker 1: house movie with a ghost represented by someone wearing a
Speaker 1: bedsheet was something I've been wanting to do for a while.
Speaker 1: I didn't know if it would be a scary movie,
Speaker 1: like a high concept horror film that just had a
Speaker 1: goofy element in the middle of it, or a weird
Speaker 1: art film, or maybe just like a video installation. It
Speaker 1: was just something I liked. It was an image that
Speaker 1: I really responded to, and I've seen it utilized elsewhere,
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to have my version of it
Speaker 1: because I just love that image. And around the time that,
Speaker 1: you know, we were finishing up my last movie, I
Speaker 1: had gotten an argument with my wife about where we're
Speaker 1: going to live, and so the idea of home was
Speaker 1: very present on my mind. And how you know, one's
Speaker 1: attachment to one's home can be both a wonderful thing
Speaker 1: but also hold you back. And so I just sat
Speaker 1: down one night and wrote the script and the first
Speaker 1: draft was ten pages. The second draft was about thirty pages,
Speaker 1: and you know, I was written within the space of
Speaker 1: a week and didn't change that much before we shot it,
Speaker 1: and I sent it to my partners in crime, James
Speaker 1: and Johnson Tobey Hobbrooks, who produced all my movies, and
Speaker 1: and just said let's make this this summer. And then
Speaker 1: I didn't have to explain much to them because they
Speaker 1: we just always make things together, so it's sort of
Speaker 1: like there's a trust there. But in terms of getting
Speaker 1: other folks on board, whether it be that my cinematographer
Speaker 1: or Casey and Rooney, I found the most important thing
Speaker 1: to do was to show like provided usual. So I
Speaker 1: just took some Greg recruits and photographs and uh, without
Speaker 1: permission photoshop to ghost into a lot of them, and
Speaker 1: that was sort of the visual representation of what I
Speaker 1: wanted this movie to be, and and it was very
Speaker 1: clear that was that was exactly everyone saw those I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, we get this, and it was you know,
Speaker 1: there was some question about running time, like whether or
Speaker 1: not it would be a shorter future, like Rooney read
Speaker 1: the script and loved it but wasn't sure if it
Speaker 1: could sustain itself for future length, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: just let's not worry about that it'll be as long
Speaker 1: as it needs to be, and let's not put the
Speaker 1: pressure on ourselves to you know, I feel like this
Speaker 1: is a movie that has to be a film that
Speaker 1: will hit theaters and sell for a certain number of
Speaker 1: amount of money. Like, let's just make this be what
Speaker 1: it needs to be and make it. Let let it
Speaker 1: feel right to us. I'm glad you mentioned that about
Speaker 1: Home because I that hit me in the moment, and
Speaker 1: I actually had not thought about that slice of it since,
Speaker 1: but that really resonated me with me when I was
Speaker 1: watching it, because just to be a little personal, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm in a time where I've lost grandparents, those homes
Speaker 1: that we went to for so many years are in
Speaker 1: the process of being sold or whatever. So you start
Speaker 1: to feel that slip away, and uh that, I don't know,
Speaker 1: that just really hit me. Was there some was there
Speaker 1: something going on other than you know, you guys talking
Speaker 1: about where you wanted to live beyond that, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: personally speaking, just this idea of losing not in something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not in the in the immediate sense, but I was
Speaker 1: certainly aware of exactly what you're talking about occurring in
Speaker 1: the future, you know, like the idea that the house
Speaker 1: that my grandparents uh live in is currently unoccupied and
Speaker 1: my parents keep talking about like the fact that we're
Speaker 1: gonna have to sell it, and I kind of like
Speaker 1: desperately wanted to just go buy it just so we
Speaker 1: can preserve it, because I want to have that space
Speaker 1: to go back to. Would I ever go back there?
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's in Wisconsin, Like I have to
Speaker 1: fly back to Wisconsin just to go steep myself in
Speaker 1: the nostalgia of being in a space. But that is
Speaker 1: important to me, Like I want to have that, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't want to shut the door on that opportunity
Speaker 1: or that possibility. I want to have the always have
Speaker 1: the possibility to go back to those places in my
Speaker 1: life where so much joy and comforts had at one
Speaker 1: point or another. And that is something that is wonderful
Speaker 1: to me. It's meaningful to me. But also, you know,
Speaker 1: in certain instances can hold me back, and that can
Speaker 1: be as simple as like having too much crap from
Speaker 1: my childhood that I heart from one apartment to you know,
Speaker 1: from apartment to house to wherever I'm living, Like I'm
Speaker 1: just dragging boxes of detritus from my childhood with me,
Speaker 1: it's not really holding it back, but it's a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to think about closet space in
Speaker 1: the bigger scheme of things. When my wife and now
Speaker 1: were having an argument where to live, she really wanted
Speaker 1: to live one place, I really wanted to live in another,
Speaker 1: and we both kind of drew a lie in the sand,
Speaker 1: and for a moment, I could see a point where
Speaker 1: our relationship put end over this one issue, which would
Speaker 1: have been ridiculous because we love each other very much
Speaker 1: and we are very happy together and we never really fight.
Speaker 1: But this was the first time like where I just
Speaker 1: saw like some difference of opinion that was so strong
Speaker 1: that it I could see a way in which it
Speaker 1: could end things. And that was unsettling to me, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to unpack that a little bit, and I realized,
Speaker 1: you know, I've got this very strong sense of home
Speaker 1: because my parents created that for me when I was
Speaker 1: growing up, and I've tried to find that wherever I go,
Speaker 1: and wherever I go, I just lay down roots and
Speaker 1: they run fast and thick, and I don't want to
Speaker 1: leave when it's time to leave, and that's fine, like
Speaker 1: that's who I am. But I also need to be
Speaker 1: able to adjust to the circumstances I find myself in
Speaker 1: and to be able to let go. So that's a
Speaker 1: big part of what this movie is about. Interesting who
Speaker 1: won the argument? Um, and we both did because we compromised.
Speaker 1: Because we we did, we stayed in l A. Then
Speaker 1: we moved back to Texas to after this movie was made, um,
Speaker 1: and then we're, you know, eventually gonna wind up back
Speaker 1: here again. So we kind of like feel like being
Speaker 1: a b coastal, even though Texas doesn't kind of a
Speaker 1: coast as is the answer. Austin is exploded by the
Speaker 1: way in the last like seven years, I just saw
Speaker 1: that you thought as I thought was I just saw
Speaker 1: the pictures recently of like the downtown area in two
Speaker 1: thousand ten, like the skyline versus now. I thought someone
Speaker 1: was just playing, look looks like Miami, A little bit
Speaker 1: like Miami. Grew up in middle of Texas, and I
Speaker 1: love Austin to death. Um. But because I grew up,
Speaker 1: because I'm a nostalgic person, grew up in Dallas, I
Speaker 1: decided to just stay there because it was getting so
Speaker 1: expensive to live in Austin. You can probably blame it
Speaker 1: on l A. People coming out, It's okay, I understand,
Speaker 1: it's beautiful there. Uh so this is your second Is
Speaker 1: this the second time you've gone out with the Rooney
Speaker 1: and Casey on a movie? After Anthingbody Saints? Um? What
Speaker 1: is it about their chemistry that brought you back? I
Speaker 1: mean they just like each other. It's like crazy like
Speaker 1: they they really changed. What Ain't the Body of Saints
Speaker 1: was just by doing a scene together we shot you know,
Speaker 1: what was originally meant to be not a love story
Speaker 1: turned into a love story because they just had so
Speaker 1: much chemistry and you can't want tofy that or you know,
Speaker 1: put you know, cause behind other than they just get
Speaker 1: along and just it's kids met and uh and so
Speaker 1: on ain't the Body saying? You know? We just ended
Speaker 1: up adding a lot more material for the two of
Speaker 1: them because I wanted more with them. And originally it
Speaker 1: was going to be very like just a little bit
Speaker 1: the beginning, a little bit the end, and that was it.
Speaker 1: We we added a bunch more. Um and then with
Speaker 1: so with this film, because there's so little on the
Speaker 1: page for these characters, and then particularly so little with
Speaker 1: the two of them together, I wanted to ground the
Speaker 1: film in that chemistry from the get go, so you
Speaker 1: would feel that something was lost when Casey's character dies.
Speaker 1: I wanted you to feel that something had been torn asunder.
Speaker 1: And I knew that if I brought the two of
Speaker 1: them together that within the me within the space of
Speaker 1: one or two scenes, they would ground this relationship in
Speaker 1: a very real and emotional and wonderful and tactile way,
Speaker 1: and the people would just understand that they care for
Speaker 1: one another. So it was a way to achieve a
Speaker 1: certain shorthand given the amount of running time the movie
Speaker 1: was gonna have, an amount of time would have together
Speaker 1: and uh and also just the characters. There wasn't much
Speaker 1: to them on the page, and they didn't have names,
Speaker 1: and they still don't in the finished film, because I
Speaker 1: didn't want to assign too much to them. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to pretend to the audience that we're gonna have
Speaker 1: the story of these two characters and then pull the
Speaker 1: rug out from under them. I wanted it to be
Speaker 1: pretty you know, pretty quick that we get into what
Speaker 1: the movie is actually about. You know, he dies within
Speaker 1: the first five or ten minutes, so um, but those
Speaker 1: five or ten minutes are crucial in terms of establishing
Speaker 1: where the movie goes. Did you have them in mind
Speaker 1: when you were writing? Not when I was writing, but
Speaker 1: as soon as it was done. I mean, I didn't
Speaker 1: have anything in mind when I was writing because it
Speaker 1: was just so fast. It's so it's so funny to
Speaker 1: think about the writing process in this because how fast
Speaker 1: did you write it? So I can get upset about it.
Speaker 1: I mean, the first draft wasn't it was one evening,
Speaker 1: but it was only ten pages, so it's like you can't,
Speaker 1: don't know, need to get upset because it wasn't much
Speaker 1: to it. You know, it's probably like probably two thousand
Speaker 1: words total and that in that document, and then I
Speaker 1: expanded it to the thirty pages as the as it
Speaker 1: started to take, you know, a stronger shape. But that
Speaker 1: even that only took probably a week. So I'm a
Speaker 1: slow right, it takes me forever to write things, And
Speaker 1: this was a rare instance where I just you know,
Speaker 1: partially there's no dialogue, and dialogues I usually spend the
Speaker 1: most time on. It just kind of just went very
Speaker 1: quickly and then it was done. And then I started,
Speaker 1: you know, assigning names to things in the script, whether
Speaker 1: it be actors or cinematographers, or my production designer. I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, here's what we're gonna do to make
Speaker 1: this movie happen. And one of those things was to
Speaker 1: just call Casey and Running or text them because I'm
Speaker 1: a Texter, and see if they were interested in making
Speaker 1: a weird movie in Texas over the summer. Uh, you're
Speaker 1: coming off of I want to venture out a little bit.
Speaker 1: You're coming off of Disney's Pete Dragon, which I thought
Speaker 1: was fascinating when you were called on to do the movie,
Speaker 1: because that seems like something Disney, that machine that could
Speaker 1: be like a wood chipper for a filmmaker. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, first of all, how did you like working
Speaker 1: with I mean, obviously enough that you're coming back for
Speaker 1: Peter Pan, but what was it like working with this
Speaker 1: giant conglomerate on something like that. I mean, it was great.
Speaker 1: I loved it. Like the folks at the studio, like
Speaker 1: Sean Bailey is just a wonderful connoisseur of cinema and
Speaker 1: a wonderful producer in his own right. So they want
Speaker 1: to make good movies there, and I want to make
Speaker 1: good movies too, So we were we were in agreement
Speaker 1: from the beginning, but um, I was certainly worried every
Speaker 1: step of the way that because it is a conglomerate
Speaker 1: and there is you know, the board of directors and
Speaker 1: so many not cooks in the kitchen kitchen, but so
Speaker 1: many voices that you have to acknowledge and listen to,
Speaker 1: that the movie would become something I didn't want it
Speaker 1: to be, you know, every step of the process. I
Speaker 1: was waiting for someone to tell me that I had
Speaker 1: to make the Dragon talk or something like that, you know,
Speaker 1: and that never happened. So I was on edge for
Speaker 1: a large portion of the entire three years we spent
Speaker 1: in that movie, but unnecessarily so, because ultimately they were
Speaker 1: in full support of the movie I wanted to make.
Speaker 1: I wanted to make this movie for them, and we
Speaker 1: just were able to make a movie that made us
Speaker 1: all very happy. And because it was such a great relationship,
Speaker 1: I'm being very careful with our next collaboration because I
Speaker 1: to keep on that train. I want to keep making
Speaker 1: them happy. I want to make a movie that I
Speaker 1: like again and make something that's personal for me while
Speaker 1: also satisfying the needs of a big studio like that. Um.
Speaker 1: But it was a great experience. I didn't you know
Speaker 1: I started off. You know, that project began right before
Speaker 1: and The Body Is Saying is premiered at Sundance, So
Speaker 1: it was sort of ancillary to that. It wasn't it
Speaker 1: wasn't a result of that movie, but you know the
Speaker 1: um but certainly that played a part of it. Like
Speaker 1: people took me a little more seriously because they knew
Speaker 1: this movie was coming out. But it was a short
Speaker 1: film that I had made called Pioneer, which was was
Speaker 1: about a father telling a son and bedtime story, and
Speaker 1: I think that's what really got the producers of Pete
Speaker 1: Dragon excited about what I could bring to that. And
Speaker 1: at that point, I was just a screenwriter with my
Speaker 1: partner Toby Hobrooks. We were just writing it and we
Speaker 1: didn't embark upon the process of uh making it with
Speaker 1: me as a director for another year. We spent a
Speaker 1: year on the script before that, even into the equation
Speaker 1: and speaking of Peter Pan, I mean, I don't I
Speaker 1: don't know where you're at on it now, but I
Speaker 1: am very curious just because that's the story we've seen
Speaker 1: many many times from many angles, So like, what are
Speaker 1: your ideas in terms of coming at it differently and
Speaker 1: presenting something fresh. I've got those ideas. I don't want
Speaker 1: to reveal them here, but I do want I do
Speaker 1: acknowledge that there are a lot of versions of this material,
Speaker 1: Like there's there that is a big question, like why
Speaker 1: do we need another Peter Pan movie. Um. At the
Speaker 1: same time, it is an evergreen property to a certain extent,
Speaker 1: and I do believe that if you can do it right,
Speaker 1: it kind of like makes that question irrelevant. You can
Speaker 1: kind of you can kind of make people feel like
Speaker 1: they're seeing it for the first time. That would be
Speaker 1: the challenge I have set for myself. Um, And you
Speaker 1: know it's tough though. I love the Pja Hogan version.
Speaker 1: I think that is the perfect version of Peter Pants. So, like,
Speaker 1: what else can I bring to the table? I have
Speaker 1: some ideas. I'm working on it with Toby. Again, we're
Speaker 1: in the screenwriting phase still, and if it feels right,
Speaker 1: we'll make it. And I am excited about that possibility,
Speaker 1: but I also wanted to feel right. So we're just
Speaker 1: gonna see see where that process takes us on the
Speaker 1: page before we before we embark on the great journey
Speaker 1: of you know, the great thing is it will take
Speaker 1: long enough to make the by time it comes out,
Speaker 1: it will have been at least five years since the
Speaker 1: last version, So that's good. So that's good. You got
Speaker 1: a little distance. Well, just broadly speaking, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you look at something like Pete Dragon and there there's
Speaker 1: something about the tone and scale there. I mean, with
Speaker 1: with Peter Pan, do you expect it to be big?
Speaker 1: Do you expected to be a little bit bigger than
Speaker 1: Pete Dragon just by nature of what it is. But
Speaker 1: it's important to me to not fall victim to just
Speaker 1: bloat and scope, because a movie feels a need to
Speaker 1: be big, Like if you could make a giant summer
Speaker 1: blockbuster feel intimate, which can't happen. I mean, I feel
Speaker 1: Fury Road manage that pretty expectively. Even that was NonStop,
Speaker 1: you know, thrills from start to finish. I think Planet
Speaker 1: of the Apes achieves that this can't wait to see it.
Speaker 1: I'm very excited to see that, So that would be
Speaker 1: my goal. Like, I don't want to just like rehash
Speaker 1: the final battle from any one of the Pie to
Speaker 1: the Caribbean movies at the end of this film, except
Speaker 1: throwing some flying kids. You know, that's not my intention,
Speaker 1: nor would I be personally interested in seeing that. So
Speaker 1: it's always like trying to find that balance, like, yes,
Speaker 1: this is a movie that will probably cost a certain
Speaker 1: amount of money. It has to have spectacle to it
Speaker 1: to justify that cost um. And at the same time,
Speaker 1: I want to make myself happy as in a movie goer,
Speaker 1: and the last thing I want to see is just
Speaker 1: another pointless battle, just because it feels like it's the
Speaker 1: third act of the movie and they need to have
Speaker 1: a battle. So finding that balance will be tricky. I
Speaker 1: do feel up to the challenge, but it's definitely like
Speaker 1: that's one of the things that's on my mind. And again,
Speaker 1: like I had such a great relationship with Disney on
Speaker 1: Pete Dragon, I want to make sure we keep that
Speaker 1: going in in a good fashion and if we ever
Speaker 1: feel like this isn't the right fit or anything like that,
Speaker 1: then we'll find something else. Because again, big fans of
Speaker 1: them over there, good look with that. I'm very interested
Speaker 1: in that. Uh. I want to talk about film editing.
Speaker 1: You edited your your film this time, Go Story. You've
Speaker 1: edited other films like Upstring Color. If if anyone hasn't
Speaker 1: seen Upstring Color, highly recommend go check out. You've never
Speaker 1: seen anything like it. Um, But how does your work
Speaker 1: as an editor, you think, impact your work as a director, Like,
Speaker 1: how does it make you a better director? It really
Speaker 1: plays a huge part in it, you know. It's still
Speaker 1: my favorite part of the process, and to a certain extent,
Speaker 1: when I'm on set, all I'm doing is just building
Speaker 1: a library of material that I can then rek havoc
Speaker 1: on within the editing room and re havoc on the
Speaker 1: editing room with um. I begin the editing process with
Speaker 1: the script, I'm always thinking about transitions. I'm always thinking
Speaker 1: about how one scene is going to cut to the next,
Speaker 1: and the impact that's gonna happen, what the shot will
Speaker 1: be that cuts from you know, that brings us from
Speaker 1: one scene to the next. And then when you're on set,
Speaker 1: you're constantly thinking in terms of efficiency, like is this
Speaker 1: the right way to tell this part of the story?
Speaker 1: Is this shot the best shot for this moment? How
Speaker 1: I utilize this shot? How might I utilize this shot
Speaker 1: in a way that I didn't initially anticipate when I
Speaker 1: first conceived it. A bit, all those things are constantly
Speaker 1: running to my head because I am just shooting the
Speaker 1: movie for the edit, and when I get to the edit,
Speaker 1: it feels like I'm starting over from scratch. All that preparation,
Speaker 1: all of that work, all those all those connections I
Speaker 1: was trying to build in kind of go out the window,
Speaker 1: because at that point I'm just working with what I've
Speaker 1: got to work with and going to make the movie
Speaker 1: is gonna become. When it becomes, it usually goes through
Speaker 1: a long process of you know, kind of like the
Speaker 1: thing in the John Carpet movie. It just turns into
Speaker 1: all these weird monsters and mutations and and and becomes
Speaker 1: unrecognizable for a little while, and then ultimately it works
Speaker 1: its way back to what it was supposed to be.
Speaker 1: And the in product, by and large is always really
Speaker 1: close to what the script was. But for some reason,
Speaker 1: I can't just do that from the outs that I
Speaker 1: have to go through this long process of creating all
Speaker 1: sorts of mutant versions of the movie before I can
Speaker 1: actually get back to what I intended to do. And
Speaker 1: so I'm in that right now with the movie I
Speaker 1: just finished, and it's really interesting, like I know that
Speaker 1: six months from now I'll have a movie that is
Speaker 1: very close to what I wrote, probably where right now
Speaker 1: I'm just feeling the need to just move scenes around
Speaker 1: and try out different things and just you know, punch
Speaker 1: the footage in the face a little bit and see
Speaker 1: what happens, because doing that does yield interesting results and
Speaker 1: sometimes the points it does give you great ideas of
Speaker 1: where you can take the footage that you hadn't expected.
Speaker 1: But it also just helps you familiarize yourself with it
Speaker 1: and get used to the movie you made. And a
Speaker 1: huge part of the editorial process is just getting used
Speaker 1: to that movie you made, which is very existential and
Speaker 1: very alarming. At first. You first you're like, what have
Speaker 1: I done? What have I wrought upon the world with
Speaker 1: this stuff? This footage is bizarre and doesn't mean anything,
Speaker 1: And then you realize that it does and it all
Speaker 1: settles down. You're talking about old man in the gun there? Yeah,
Speaker 1: how did that go? Would you learn on that movie?
Speaker 1: It's a I think you're working with searchlight on that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: search lights me putting it out and uh, they're you
Speaker 1: know Casey again, case He's in it. Robert Redford starts space,
Speaker 1: Tom Waite standing Glover, Tika Sumter. Really a great cast.
Speaker 1: H J. D. Washington, bunch of cool kids, a bunch
Speaker 1: of folks who have never been in a movie before
Speaker 1: some reoccurring characters from Ain't Them Bodies Saints? We just
Speaker 1: bring them. We brought everybody along for this one, um.
Speaker 1: And it was my first attempt to make something fun. Well,
Speaker 1: and that's not true because Pete Dragon was meant to
Speaker 1: be fun, but it was also just really sad. And
Speaker 1: this movie is meant to be. The first scene in
Speaker 1: Pete Dragon killed me. Man, it's like a really sad movie.
Speaker 1: Even the ending is happy but also kind of sad.
Speaker 1: This one is supposed to be lighthearted. It's supposed to
Speaker 1: be you know. Robert Redford hired me to make this
Speaker 1: movie four years ago, and over the course of those
Speaker 1: four years and made Pete Dragon, and I got to
Speaker 1: know him a little bit, and ultimately this is sort
Speaker 1: of a tribute to him and his legacy. It plays
Speaker 1: into some of the iconography that he's known for. It
Speaker 1: also is like harkens back to my favorite film of his,
Speaker 1: which is Downhill Racer by Michael Ritchie. And it's got
Speaker 1: just a fun, loose, you know, vibrant quality to it.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it ain't gonna work. I mean,
Speaker 1: all that's that's, that's all stuff I'm trying to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's the aim. It's very loose. I mean, we shot
Speaker 1: in sixteen millimiure. We tried to make it feel as
Speaker 1: like as as rough around the edges as we possibly could.
Speaker 1: You know that we were embracing the idea that the
Speaker 1: camera would bump sometimes when I was on a dolly
Speaker 1: and moving quickly. We tried to just always delight ourselves
Speaker 1: every step of the way. And uh, and there's not
Speaker 1: much plot to it, so I don't know, we'll see
Speaker 1: what happens. It's based on a true story, so there's
Speaker 1: a lot going into it. But in the making of it,
Speaker 1: we just sort of tried to have fun and tried
Speaker 1: to have fun with him because he's such a wonderful actor,
Speaker 1: a wonderful presence, and and he just he wanted to
Speaker 1: have fun. That was his goal was every step of
Speaker 1: the way and make it fun. So we'll see how
Speaker 1: it turns out. I I know I'm pushing my own
Speaker 1: personal boundaries as to what I'm good at, and I'm
Speaker 1: trying out new things. But I feel like if I'm
Speaker 1: not trying out new things, I'm failing in some way.
Speaker 1: So we'll find out when when it comes out next year.
Speaker 1: Cool and then also I was just poking around beforehand
Speaker 1: doing some research. I didn't realize this. You directed an
Speaker 1: episode of Rectify, Oh yeah, which I think is one
Speaker 1: of the best shows of the really great show number
Speaker 1: of however many years. Uh, you know, were you a
Speaker 1: fan of that series in general, just like where it
Speaker 1: went and everything, because you did one episode. I didn't
Speaker 1: know if that was just like you came on to
Speaker 1: do some work or you know, I'm I've been I've
Speaker 1: known Ray McKinnon for a little while, the creator of
Speaker 1: the show, and then Scott Teams, who was a writer
Speaker 1: and producer on the film, was a was a friend
Speaker 1: of mine because he had a film called That Evening
Speaker 1: Sun that was on the festival circuit with my first
Speaker 1: feature of Satan Next. So we know each other for
Speaker 1: a long time and when and I also know Mark
Speaker 1: Johnson and Melissa Bernstein over at Grand Villa. We've been
Speaker 1: uh friends and then you know, looking for something to
Speaker 1: do together for years at this point, almost a decade
Speaker 1: at this point. So it was just the right fit.
Speaker 1: Like we all, it was like a bunch of folks
Speaker 1: that I knew and that they needed to fill out
Speaker 1: the roster of directors and I had uh time in
Speaker 1: my schedule to do it, and it was a really
Speaker 1: great experience. I don't I I had never done television before.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to expect, and I remember going
Speaker 1: up to one of the producers and apologizing. So I
Speaker 1: felt like I wasn't doing enough. I felt like I
Speaker 1: felt goes like I should. I feel like I need
Speaker 1: to be doing more. But there's not that much to
Speaker 1: do because Ray is such a strong creative visionary and
Speaker 1: this was his baby, and he knew what it needed
Speaker 1: and and the actors were there working with him every day.
Speaker 1: So it was a really interesting process because not only
Speaker 1: was that directing, but I was also getting to just
Speaker 1: kind of sit on the sidelines to a certain extent
Speaker 1: and watch how Ray worked. And that was a really
Speaker 1: a very educational experience and also one that is benefited
Speaker 1: me as a director, like watching how he directs actors.
Speaker 1: You know, all the performances he got out of that show.
Speaker 1: It's such an amazing series in terms of just what
Speaker 1: the actors are doing, and that's all him, Like I,
Speaker 1: you know, I would never take credit for and I
Speaker 1: outa that in the episode that I directed, because he
Speaker 1: had built that so thoroughly and developed it so thoroughly,
Speaker 1: and uh, I had learned I had read going into
Speaker 1: it that if on an episodic television show, if you're
Speaker 1: not the director of the pilot, you know, if you
Speaker 1: can get one or two ideas across of your own
Speaker 1: and every episode while also supporting the vision of the creator,
Speaker 1: then you've succeeded. And so I feel like I did that.
Speaker 1: I got two shots in there that I feel we're mine,
Speaker 1: and I lay claim to them. And the rest of
Speaker 1: it was me doing my best to help Ray make
Speaker 1: a really great series. That's a great show, and it
Speaker 1: ended well, which is like increasingly rare. It seems like,
Speaker 1: you know, they ended they knew it was gonna end,
Speaker 1: and and it was. I'm sure he knew. It's so
Speaker 1: much of that show he was like just coming up
Speaker 1: with not as he went, but just like you know,
Speaker 1: he was just pushing him, pulling and trying to find
Speaker 1: the right way to get to where it needed to go.
Speaker 1: And I he would never tell anyone, you know, he
Speaker 1: was He would always tell like make up answers, like
Speaker 1: he's like, this is the episode where reveal that Daniel
Speaker 1: did it, And then he would come up with like
Speaker 1: like he would constantly be just joking about that. But
Speaker 1: I'm sure I know he knew the whole way through
Speaker 1: what where it was going to go. And then the
Speaker 1: last thing here, just to bring it back to ghost story, Uh,
Speaker 1: just tell me about working with this is such a
Speaker 1: unique company. Um, they are coming off this miraculous best
Speaker 1: picture when last year, and uh, you know just what
Speaker 1: the environment like there for an artist, it's phenomenal. Not
Speaker 1: that you would say anything bad if it was. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's like, guys, just let me let me play out
Speaker 1: the truth about is exactly as cool a company as
Speaker 1: you could as you would hope based on the movies
Speaker 1: that they distribute. I think they make their taste very
Speaker 1: clear with the movies they choose to distribute. I think
Speaker 1: they make their creative bones very clear with the ways
Speaker 1: in which they market them. And they just have fun
Speaker 1: with it. They have good taste and they have fun
Speaker 1: with that good taste. And when we were first developing
Speaker 1: this project, in the two weeks that we had to
Speaker 1: develop it before we started shooting it, that was sort
Speaker 1: of the pipe dream, you know, we knew we had
Speaker 1: this concept that was, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 1: high concept. It was someone wearing a bedsheet. We knew
Speaker 1: that that could be a great marketing hook. We knew
Speaker 1: that it could go horribly awry in the wrong hands.
Speaker 1: But we knew that if things worked out, if it's
Speaker 1: turned out to be a feature film, it was a
Speaker 1: feature film that was worth watching, that maybe there's a
Speaker 1: chance and how would be interested in putting it out
Speaker 1: because who would do a better job with such a
Speaker 1: high concept idea than them? So the fact that that
Speaker 1: worked out is just you know, makes me very happy.
Speaker 1: It's a dream come true. Literally, and they have not
Speaker 1: disappointed me. I just am in awe every day of
Speaker 1: like the ideas they're coming up with to get the
Speaker 1: movie out there. They support it fully. They know what
Speaker 1: it is. They're not pretending it's something it's not. And
Speaker 1: I mean, if you heard about the ghost store that
Speaker 1: they opened up in New York, just heard at the unbelievable,
Speaker 1: Like it's like a it's just a goofy idea to
Speaker 1: open up a ghost store. It's like a pun, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like a pun on the title. And yet going
Speaker 1: to it is the most remarkably complimentary experience to watching
Speaker 1: the movie. You could imagine I should bring it here.
Speaker 1: I wish they would think it's going to be open
Speaker 1: to the end of July. In New York. If you
Speaker 1: go to a ghost Dot store you can also. I
Speaker 1: think they give away four or five sheets a day,
Speaker 1: bed sheets like ghost costumes a day, and they're all
Speaker 1: based on their like a stripped down version of the
Speaker 1: ghost costume used in the movie. And but if you
Speaker 1: are in New York, by the way down version of it.
Speaker 1: So it was it was a to do. It wasn't
Speaker 1: but I've heard about that. But it's amazing and you
Speaker 1: go there. The closest coralier I can find is it
Speaker 1: going to Harry Potter World and going to Olive Ander's
Speaker 1: wand shop and having the land shoose you. It's very
Speaker 1: similar to that. It's like a it's a brief, thirty
Speaker 1: minute immersive experience that prepares you for the movie. It
Speaker 1: compliments the movie, but also there's no branding there, so
Speaker 1: you could just wandering off the street and not have
Speaker 1: any idea that it has anything to do with the movie.
Speaker 1: You just have this very strange, personal, somewhat meaningful experience
Speaker 1: that is all of them. They came up with it,
Speaker 1: and they understood the movie to such a great extent
Speaker 1: that they could take what seems like a gag, seems
Speaker 1: like a stunt, and make something rather beautiful out of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it kind of reminds me of when they put together
Speaker 1: the room from Room here, and it really drove home,
Speaker 1: like the emotions of the movie, just that tight space.
Speaker 1: Speaking of the sheet, I did ask Casey right after
Speaker 1: I saw the movie. I was like, how much is
Speaker 1: that you under the sheet? He was like, I got
Speaker 1: some sheet time in. How much was is that Casey
Speaker 1: underneath that sheet? I will never define it by personages,
Speaker 1: but I will say we had to do some reshoots
Speaker 1: and pickups and he was unavailable. But to his credit,
Speaker 1: he was very begrudging in his unavailability. He wanted to
Speaker 1: be under it for the entire film, and he bequeathed
Speaker 1: it to our art director who is the same height
Speaker 1: and size and did a wonderful job. But but Casey
Speaker 1: is definitely under it, and uh, he defined that role
Speaker 1: for us, So I don't want to That's why I'll
Speaker 1: never say, like I mean, there are times in the
Speaker 1: movie where it cuts like shot reverse shot where it's
Speaker 1: him then or not him, But you don't need to
Speaker 1: know that keeps move the movies cohesive. You never know,
Speaker 1: and uh, and it's a it's a you know, a
Speaker 1: wonderful thing that he was willing to just embrace that
Speaker 1: concept so thoroughly he wanted to wear it at all.
Speaker 1: And the fact that he came to Texas put that
Speaker 1: ridiculous costume on in a hundred and ten degree weather
Speaker 1: is a testament to his devotion to the art form. Well,
Speaker 1: the movie is a ghost story. It opens July seven,
Speaker 1: Go see it. Like I said, I think it's the
Speaker 1: best movie that I've seen this year. So are so
Speaker 1: I hope everybody enjoys it. And thank you David come
Speaker 1: on the show. Having it really means a lot. And
Speaker 1: I was a little and we used to move all
Speaker 1: the time. I write these notes and I'm fult really small.
Speaker 1: I don't hide them well, and just like things, I
Speaker 1: wanted to turn them, perhaps that if I ever wanted
Speaker 1: to go back, there'd be a piece of me. They're reading,
Speaker 1: m M, did you say dream? Did you know she would'n?
Speaker 1: Did she die in the night? Yeah? You want what
Speaker 1: is it you like about this house? So much history? Well?
Speaker 1: Basically cool. The writer writes a novel a songwriter writes
Speaker 1: a song. We do what we can to endure and
Speaker 1: build our legacy, piece by a piece, and maybe the
Speaker 1: whole world will remember you, or maybe just a couple
Speaker 1: of people. But you do what you can to make
Speaker 1: sure you're still around after you're gone. For Foy,