1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to you Stuff you missed in History Class from 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: I'm trac Vie Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. We're doing 4 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: something a little different today. We have had some guests 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 1: on the podcast lately, and today not only do we 6 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: have a guest, we also have a whole additional podcast 7 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: as a guest. It's a podcast that actually has a 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: lot of parallels to ours. Both shows first came out 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight. They're both with history hosts 10 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,919 Speaker 1: who aren't actually historians, and the both shows that tell 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: stories from the past, but we do this in completely 12 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 1: different ways. So with that, I'd like to welcome our guest, 13 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: who is Nate Demayo of The Memory Palace. Hey, thanks 14 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: for having me. I'm so glad you're here too. I'm 15 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: very excited. I'm a big listener of you guys, so 16 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 1: I'm excited to be here. Thank you so much. If 17 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: you have never heard The Memory Palace the shows, the 18 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: episodes of themselves are a lot shorter than ours. The 19 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: They are little JEMs of stories accompanied by music, and somehow, 20 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: even though they're simultaneously really short, they're also really thoughtful, 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: and I think it's a lot better to just listen 22 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: to one of these episodes than to listen to us 23 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: talk about what they're like. So we're going to start 24 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: by playing one of them. It's one that's particularly short, 25 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: but it's also really particularly moving, and it follows along 26 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: nicely with our recent episodes on animals. So let's get 27 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 1: right to it. From the Maximum Fund Network, this is 28 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: the Memory Palace from Nath to Mayo, and this is 29 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: episode fifty fifty words, written about the Arctic bowhead whale 30 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: after learning that it can live up to two years. 31 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: There's a whale right now who may have escaped in 32 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: Nantucketer's harpoon in eighteen fifty in a Japanese whaler in 33 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: n who once heard the distant songs of fifty of 34 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: her kind, then several thousands than hundreds, But who can 35 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: hear twenty five thousand again singing in the warming water. 36 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: When we started preparing for this interview, I really listened 37 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: to a bunch of your old episodes, and one of 38 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: the things I really love about your show is that 39 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 1: it tells these odd, eccentric, kind of wacky stories you 40 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: had just at that point put out a remastered version 41 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: of Itty Bitty Bombs, which is about the scheme to 42 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 1: use bats to drop bombs on Japan during World War Two, 43 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: And it's another in the Wacky animal line. Where did 44 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: you come up with this story? You know, it's uh, 45 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: it has been a while, so where I found it 46 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: is sort of lost in the cracks of history. But 47 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: I suspect sort of like YouTube, um, I am sort 48 00:03:33,639 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: of constantly, constantly on the lookout for I guess in 49 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: some ways just sort of the the the thing that 50 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: reaches out from you know, whether it's your Internet browser 51 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: or some like larger history book or some novel or 52 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: something that fact that kind of jumps out and grabs 53 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: you and you know, either you know, makes you go 54 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: holy cow. And that one, that one about the bomb 55 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: the bat bombs, is certainly sort of a holy cow 56 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: kind of thing. But that or that just kind of 57 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: like makes you just you know, feel excited or sad 58 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: or somehow moved. Like I am always kind of trawling 59 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: for those things, and and like that's like an instinct 60 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: that um, you know, not only sort of I mean 61 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: I do that now professionally on some level with the podcast, 62 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: but that is something that preceded the podcast, and I 63 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: think because they've always kind of had that instinct of 64 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: of like looking out for those little sort of flex 65 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: of wonder in the world. UM. I think that's probably 66 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: what led to the podcast at all. I think the 67 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: flexi wonder should be your autobiography. So one of the 68 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: things that we encounter in the show really often is 69 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: that we will find different versions of the same story 70 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: or facts that are really in dispute in some way. 71 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: And a lot of times we tackle this in our 72 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: show by talking about the disputes and how they came 73 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 1: to be. That doesn't really work with your format. So 74 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: when you find that kind of thing, what do you do? 75 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: You know it is? That is the thing I startled about, 76 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: and it's also the thing that I might get the 77 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: most notes from listeners about you like it's fascinating. I recently, 78 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: UH Pieces from the Memory Palace started to air semi regularly, 79 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: if occasionally, and if not as frequently as I would 80 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: like UM on NPRS weekend editions, Sunday and UM. They 81 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: sort of apply this editorial process, which is the same 82 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: one that when I was a reporter UM four NPR 83 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: and in a different UH in a different public radio shows. 84 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: Was applied to me as a reporter. Um, where you know, 85 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: they fact check these things. They want to make sure 86 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: that everything is in there. But as you guys, well know, 87 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: you might learn something, Uh, you might learn some amazing 88 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: fact and then you'll go in and you know, first 89 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: of all, you'll find out it's not quite like that. 90 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: It's kind of like this. But very quickly you discovered 91 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: that there are three or four or five versions of 92 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: that thing. And um that you know, I have noticed that, 93 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: you know, while listening to your show, that you guys 94 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: have the gift of being able to say, well, you know, 95 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: this is a little bit disputed. This guy says this, 96 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: this lady says this. I think we're probably landing somewhere 97 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: in you know, in the middle. And you know, the 98 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: truth is with my format because it is those sort 99 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: of short stories, um, and it is a narrative. Um, 100 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: I can't quite do that same thing. Um, but I 101 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: have found um sort of small ways to do that, 102 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: and some is to simply come out and say it. 103 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: You know. Uh, you know, we don't know precisely, um 104 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: when this thing began, but we think it's around here, um, 105 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: you know, and sometimes like the truth is the fact 106 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: whether it's eighteen eleven or it's eighteen seven when something 107 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: might have begun, UM doesn't ultimately doesn't matter that much 108 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: because what the point is is that it's starting to say, 109 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: before the before the Civil War or something like that, 110 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: there are you know. It's essentially like what I'm looking for, 111 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: um almost, you know. And I think it's the thing 112 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: that that drives so much of the stories that I'm 113 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,559 Speaker 1: doing is beyond just looking for fun facts and beyond 114 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: just looking for a kind of a ripping yard, like 115 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: I am really looking for meaning, you know, like I'm 116 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: looking for ways to connect the past to the present, 117 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: you know, ways to um to move the listener, you know, 118 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: to kind of like reconsider um, whether it's a historical 119 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: moment or um a person they may have never met before, 120 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: or a person that they've heard before, heard about before, 121 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: but have never thought about in a certain context. And 122 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: so if that's the goal, it's sort of finding meaning, 123 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: and it's and it's you know, moving people, and it's 124 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: like connecting their their current reality to the live reality 125 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: of of the past. It's not that the facts don't matter, 126 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: because I actually think it's because it is it is 127 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: the meaning is sort of been um embedded within those facts. 128 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: But you know, you can be very clear about like 129 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: the ambiguity in that case, because you know, life is 130 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: sort of filled with ambiguity. But what we're taking from, 131 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: you know, the story of, for instance, UM, the first elephant, 132 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: UM to continue with your animal theme, UM, which is 133 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: a story that that I did and is particularly dear 134 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: to me. UM. Whether it's the first elephant or not, 135 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: And that is really in dispute, and I spent a 136 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: long time trying to figure out whether it is the 137 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: first elephant. UM. What really matters is there are tons 138 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: and tons and tons and tons of people in eighteen 139 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 1: o five in the United States who have never seen 140 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: an elephant before, and first or second, or third or fourth, 141 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: UM being the first elephant for some man in Boston 142 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: or some you know, some woman in Charlotte, North Carolina. UM, 143 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 1: that's the you know, that's where the story lives. It's 144 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: in that encounter, it's in that novelty. And whether it 145 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: is you know, truly technically historically novel, I'm less concerned with. 146 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: So that actually kind of leads nicely into my next question, 147 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: which is that we talked about this a little bit 148 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: before we started recording that Sometimes when we're putting together 149 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: an episode, it ends up as a two parter because 150 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: we just find so many juicy details that are really 151 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: fun to tell, uh, and we don't want to leave 152 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: those out, and we have that leverage where we can 153 00:08:58,240 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: kind of spend a little more time with it. So 154 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: I'm wondering how you wrangle your research down to that 155 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: super lean format and really getting across the message and 156 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: the meaning without dropping too many details off. Yeah, well, 157 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: I think it's mostly UM. I think the process really 158 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: starts with UM, after the kind of research is done, 159 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: and after I feel like I really understand um, both 160 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,839 Speaker 1: the story itself, UM say about the elephants, but also 161 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: the context, the historical context um, you know, of what 162 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: life was like then UM, so that I feel like 163 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: I'm grounded and sort of able to to find a 164 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: story to tell. UM. The real work comes in finding 165 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: what that story is about. It's it's being that the 166 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: about nous is something beyond subject right for me, It is, 167 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: you know, finding the meaning. So like, there was a 168 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 1: great uh story that I stumbled upon one time about 169 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,720 Speaker 1: this guy who was a serial impostor and you know, 170 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:03,479 Speaker 1: lived his life, um, you know, impersonating diplomats, impersonating businessmen, um, 171 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: you know. And some of it was used for, you know, 172 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 1: simply to get a good table to restaurant, you know. 173 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: Some of it was to pull off sort of incredible scams. 174 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: And he was a fantastic figure and UM lived this 175 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: like very you know, broad big life. And you know, 176 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: so on the one hand, I could kind of just 177 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: go in and just like reel off the facts about 178 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,000 Speaker 1: this guy. Oh and then he pulled this scam and 179 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: this is pretty amazing. And then he pulled this scam 180 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: and this is pretty amazing. And then he was caught 181 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: and this is what like life in jail is like 182 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: for six months. Um. But instead, you know, I had 183 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: to like kind of as I do with all the stories, 184 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: you have to kind of like go in, dig in 185 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: and and find out what I want to say. And 186 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: for me with this story about the impostor, you know, 187 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: it was like, well, what is driving this guy to 188 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: be an impostor? Like what what might possibly be at 189 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: the roots of you know, for someone who um, of 190 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: the millions of lives that that one could have chosen, Um, 191 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: why this route? And you know, kind of like finding 192 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: this origin in a feeling of being slighted, which is 193 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: very sort of explicit and something he would talk about. 194 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: Um So it wasn't something that I was kind of 195 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 1: imposing but then really trying to get into, like what 196 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: must it be? You know, what do you what you're 197 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: actually getting out of the impostoring? What you know? What 198 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: particular thrills are you finding? And how does that connect 199 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 1: with me? And I, like I would find and for me, 200 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: the heart of that story is in this kind of 201 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 1: sense that you know that daily life can be, you know, 202 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: filled with toil and drudgery, and here was a guy 203 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 1: who found a way for himself to gain that system. 204 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: You know, he wasn't going off sort of playing fantasy baseball. 205 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: He wasn't going off collecting you know, humble figurines. He 206 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: was finding ways to, at least for a night, live 207 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: different lives. And once I kind of hone in on that, 208 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: the idea that this man is going to go live 209 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: different lives, um or I hone in on the elephant 210 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: story about you know this is this is not only 211 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: about the novelty of seeing this sort of wonderful creature. 212 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: It is also a creature who's alone and so much 213 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 1: of the story should be about exploring what it would 214 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: mean to be alone in an alien landscape, for the 215 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: for the creature, for the elephant itself. Um. Then that 216 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: extra stuff, like the the extra details that twists and 217 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: turns um are kind of easy to cut away because 218 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: they don't sort they sort of simply don't serve the story. 219 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: You know. It's like taking Game of Thrones um and 220 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: trying to turn it into a TV show, and then 221 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: you're suddenly like, you know what, there's those that whole 222 00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: battle scene and there's that whole land over there that like, 223 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: if we're really focusing on who's going to rest control 224 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: of the Iron Throne or whatever it might be, then um, 225 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: if this guy is not ever gonna get the Iron Throne, 226 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: then maybe we don't need to talk about them. And 227 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: so some of it is as simple as that, Like 228 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: by finding the actual thread in the heart of the story, 229 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: you can kind of hack off a few limbs, which 230 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: I guess kind of keeps us in Game of Thrones 231 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: territory as well. Do you ever start on research for 232 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: an episode? And as I asked this question, and I 233 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 1: can tell you this happens to me all the time. Uh, 234 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: and then you'll find out that you actually want to 235 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 1: talk about something else, perhaps that you stumble across during 236 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: your research phase. Like do you ever let yourself switch 237 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: horses midstream? Oh? Absolutely no, I mean that happens all 238 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: the time. Um. And in fact, I actually I've kind 239 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 1: of discovered that the best way for me to find 240 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: stories um uh that can can really kind of have 241 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: like a depth of meaning and like really kind of 242 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: stand up is more than just kind of a factoid. 243 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: Is sort of looking for an idea that seems cool, like, oh, 244 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, I didn't know this about, um, like the Quakers, 245 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: and then I then you read about the Quakers, um, 246 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: just kind of assume that, oh, the Quakers are interesting, 247 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 1: there must be something interesting there. But in doing that research, 248 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: you then find that, you know, the Quakers are less 249 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: interesting than this one manufacturer of Quaker furniture, you know, 250 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,199 Speaker 1: like you like, It's often like I often find like, oh, 251 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: here's an area that is interesting, um, but you start 252 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: to dive in and then it turns out it is 253 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: not the area itself that is interesting, but it is 254 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: the little detail that takes you on that detour. Um. 255 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: But the real bane of my existence is when you 256 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: find the incredible factoid and it's so unbelievable, what a 257 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,559 Speaker 1: great story, and it turns out to actually be unbelievable. 258 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm I am struggling with that right now, um, with 259 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: with a story that I was sure it was going 260 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 1: to be like the centerpiece of my new season and 261 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: it's kind of turned out to maybe not have actually happened, 262 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: And that's a bummer. I have had that exact problem, yeah, 263 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 1: for sure, specifically with a historical marker I found once 264 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: that had an amazing story on it, and the amazing story, 265 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: it turns out, is significantly inflated on the historical marker 266 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: and elsewhere. We are going to take a brief break 267 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: for a word from a sponsor. When we come back, 268 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: we're going to talk a bit about how Nate arrived 269 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: at doing a history podcast, because he, like Holly and I, 270 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: is not a historian strictly speaking. So let's talk a 271 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: little more generally about the world of history. So weirdly, 272 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: right now, we have three podcast hosts talking to one another. 273 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: None of us are historians. I don't know that you 274 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 1: would call any of the three of us stereotypical history buffs. 275 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: Yet we are dedicating large parts of our lives to 276 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: working on history podcasts. So Nate, how did that happen 277 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: for you? Um? Yeah, No, I definitely pushed back on 278 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 1: the notion of being a history buff um and I 279 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: and it has nothing to do with identity. Actually think 280 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: that like history buffs are great, So you know, I 281 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: would happily sort of take that claim, you know, claim 282 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 1: that mantle if if I could rightly do so. Um. 283 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: You know, I uh, I think that like I'm just 284 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: sort of culturally omnivorous, you know. And the thing with 285 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 1: history for me is that, like you when I really 286 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: am sort of like scrolling through Twitter and you know, 287 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: besides the things that I know that I want to 288 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: learn about, you know, whether it is like my Los 289 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: Angeles Clippers, you know, or certain political things, certain music 290 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: things or whatever, you know, I am mostly just looking 291 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: you know for something to kind of step into my 292 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: life and you know, uh and thrill me on some level, 293 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: like you know, give me something to think about, like 294 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: something that will kind of change my day. And you 295 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: know there are you know, for me, I think the 296 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: thing that has brought me to history, Um, you know, 297 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: isn't sort of this sense of like you know, good Lord, 298 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 1: we need to look back, so we don't you know, 299 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: kind of repeat the mistakes of the past, or you 300 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: can't understand the present without understanding the past. UM. I 301 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: have found that, you know, in in my life, and 302 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: particularly sort of in my younger life, UM, that I 303 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: was kind of empowered by having a historical understanding. You know. 304 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: For me, I grew up um in Rhode Island, and 305 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: Rhode Island can be a very parochial place and you 306 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: know it is it is forty five minutes by fifty minutes. 307 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: It's a tiny little place, um, and it is served 308 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 1: by you know, a set of stations that are in 309 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: Providence that cover the state of Rhode Island and and 310 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: not very much else. And so it has this very 311 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: kind of like insular feeling. And you growing up there, UM, 312 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: I didn't really have the sense that, um, that sort 313 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,640 Speaker 1: of exciting lives were available to me. And it wasn't 314 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: that like my parents weren't encouraging, And it wasn't that 315 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: I didn't see people on TV or read read people 316 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 1: who had written books, or read about people in magazines, 317 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: or see bands that came through town and thought like, oh, 318 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: they like, oh, look there's more that I can go 319 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,640 Speaker 1: out there and do. On some fundamental level, I did 320 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,400 Speaker 1: not understand that they were real people, you know that 321 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: like that that was something that there was exciting lives 322 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: that I too could have. And I kind of learned 323 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: that in a way by from history, like I remember 324 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: very specifically, you know, like reading you know, biographies of 325 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,360 Speaker 1: different people like Calvin Tompkins biography of of the artist 326 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: Marcel Duchamp was really formative to me, and reading um 327 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: American Visions by Robert Hughes, the big survey of American art. 328 00:17:58,240 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: The thing that I sort of took away from that 329 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: was over and over and over again that these people 330 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: who were making history um were just as whether it 331 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: was vain or or you know, could just do such 332 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: dumb things, or or had very human and very sort 333 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: of you know, had very human appetites that would get 334 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: them into trouble all the same sorts of things that 335 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 1: were happening to me and everyone I knew on some level, um, 336 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 1: you know, had happened to Abraham Lincoln. And it was 337 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: a very simple and very well duh kind of uh realization, 338 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,959 Speaker 1: but it was it was one that I needed to 339 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: have and I and so I would read these books, 340 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: I learned about people, but I would also learn um, 341 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: getting this sort of sense of history of that like 342 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: the times between things were often very short, and that 343 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: you know, for instance, the time between the Civil War 344 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 1: and the time between uh, you know, the turn of 345 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: the century is at this point a span of a 346 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 1: span of time that I have lived myself, and yet 347 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: there's such radical change. And when you start to realize that, um, 348 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: you realize it gives you a sense of your present 349 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: day as historical and as as filled with change and 350 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: as also um I think importantly for me, like filled 351 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,399 Speaker 1: with the potential. You know, it's like if the world 352 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: changed so much between n and nineteen seventy one, then 353 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: you know, as we have seen on Madmen recently, then 354 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: like then you know, so too can the world of 355 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: the future. And I've always found that really sort of exciting. 356 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 1: And I've always found going back into the past and 357 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: in sort of relearning that lesson UM has been really valuable. 358 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: And then the other thing, like, because I think what 359 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: we do, what you guys doing, what I do, is 360 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: we're interested in these things that kind of fall through 361 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: the cracks, and they're the stuff that you have missed 362 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: in history class, um, you know. And for me, like 363 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: I'm aware that in in our current day, we are 364 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: constantly missing stuff as well. You know. It's that that 365 00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: if you are really interested in you know, Republican politics, 366 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: or you are really interested in the Atlanta Falcons, you know, 367 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: or collecting baseball cards or whatever it might be, then 368 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: you're missing a whole lot of life. And in history 369 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: there are always those people and always those corners that um, 370 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, not only are sort of worth unearthing, and 371 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,320 Speaker 1: not only are worth kind of engaging with and and 372 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: can be sort of exciting and like you know, wonderful 373 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: in the literal sense, like you know, can fill you 374 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: with wonder it all. For me, it is always a 375 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: reminder that that is happening right now, you know, in 376 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: in my awaking life too, that I can sort of 377 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,120 Speaker 1: engage more and look around more, um you know. And 378 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: and in a lot of ways, that's the kind of 379 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,639 Speaker 1: experience I want someone to have with the memory Palace. 380 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,760 Speaker 1: I want them to be like, Wow, this thing in 381 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: the past has happened, um, but you know, by connecting 382 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: it to our present, I kind of want them to 383 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,919 Speaker 1: come out and look at our you know, their present 384 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: moment in their neighborhood and their family. Um and the 385 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: news with with sort of wide dies. So having grown 386 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: up in New England, New England is home to sort 387 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: of enormous history. It's if you want to go somewhere 388 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: in New England and not be surrounded by history, you 389 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: kind of have to work at it. It's big, big, 390 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: especially in the course of American history, huge, huge historical events. 391 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,439 Speaker 1: But a lot of your episodes focus on things that 392 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: are really small, and this sort of ties onto your 393 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,120 Speaker 1: what you just said, what is it about the small 394 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:32,399 Speaker 1: that really appeals to you? Because I think that you know, no, 395 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: I mean the stories are short. I mean they're almost 396 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: like fetishistically short, right, you know, like like you know, 397 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: there are times in which the you know, the artistic 398 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: challenge becomes like, you know, how quickly can I get 399 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: from point A to point point B with um point 400 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: a being you know nothing about a subject, to point 401 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: B being like you have been moved to tears or 402 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: who have been elated by a subject and you're caring 403 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: about something you didn't care about before. Um, you know. 404 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: And so some of it is like a I'm looking 405 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: to kind of pack that punch. Then it's a little 406 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: bit harder to pack war in peace, you know, into 407 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: five and a half minutes UM. But moreover, like I 408 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: think that the small is is the thing that you 409 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 1: connect with. You know. It's like it's it's hard to 410 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: connect with, um, you know, with troop movements, and it's 411 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: hard to connect with supply lines in the battle, But 412 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: it's not hard to connect with a soldier who is 413 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: you know, trying to gear themselves up to charge up 414 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: a hill. You know, it's not hard to connect with 415 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: you know, another soldier who can't gear themselves up and 416 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: is running the opposite direction. And you know, I So 417 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: I think that you know that smallness UM. I think 418 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,640 Speaker 1: it this occurs in literature, it occurs in film, like 419 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,160 Speaker 1: you know, by finding these specifics, um, these specific details 420 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: and these specific stories. UM. You know that is the 421 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: way that you can kind of enter the world of 422 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 1: kind of like big ideas and capital H history UM, 423 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: through like the power of the kind of like lower 424 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: case H story. So is there a topic that you 425 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: have always wanted to delve into but you haven't quite 426 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: found the right angle on it yet that's kind of 427 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: lurking and maybe your periphery as one day I'm gonna 428 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: tackle that one. Yeah, I think so, I mean I 429 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: think I think there are tons you know, um uh 430 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,360 Speaker 1: you know, and some of it, some of it comes 431 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: down to the fact that, like you look into this 432 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: story and then you realize there's less of a story 433 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: there than you thought, or that there's a bunch of 434 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: interesting facts but they don't cohere. And so right now 435 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: I'm sitting in um, you know, essentially like a you know, 436 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: remade garage UM where I'm talking to you guys, and 437 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: where I work a lot, and there's a board over there, 438 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,919 Speaker 1: and it's got tons and tons of ideas. Um. You know, 439 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: there's there are lots and lots of different you know, 440 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: story topics up there, um and a lot of them 441 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: have been on that board for a really long time, 442 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: and they're just waiting for, um, the about nous to appear, 443 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like they're they're waiting for 444 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 1: that thing that turns you know, a story about billboard advertising, 445 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,199 Speaker 1: Like that's an interesting thing. I'm kind of interested in 446 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: what it was like to see the first billboards um 447 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: into the point you know, it's like finding like, yeah, 448 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: I'm sure I could. I know, I can look up 449 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: a bunch of information about billboards and say, well, when 450 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: billboards first started to hear people are really excited about it, 451 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: and then they got tired of it or whatever. The 452 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: arc of the life of the billboard might be. Um, 453 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: but until I can kind of find that thing that 454 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: um first of all interests me beyond like, oh that's interesting, 455 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: um and actually kind of like moves me or thrills 456 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: me or makes me sad or whatever it might be. 457 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: Um Like, until I can really connect with it, it's 458 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: going to sort of stay on the board. So yeah, 459 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: there are there are things that that I've kind of 460 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: wanted to do for years but have not been able 461 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: to crack. All of your billboard talk suddenly makes me 462 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: think of that Tom Waite's song Burma Shave, and now 463 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: it's never going to leave my head. Um. Well, that's 464 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: that's it. You could you could do worse than which, yeah, 465 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,760 Speaker 1: it's not a complaint. I'm just I recognize that this 466 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: is my soundtrack for the day. Um. Have you ever 467 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: been pretty deep into production on an episode and ended 468 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: up tossing it entirely? Yes? Yeah, no, absolutely, I mean 469 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: that doesn't happen that you know. The truth is, and 470 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: you know I'm about to begin on June twenty one, 471 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: releasing the show in seasons UM with weekly episodes for 472 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: the summer, and then I'll take some some brief break 473 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: and then I'll be back with weekly episodes for another 474 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, uh period as yet to be determined. But 475 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,240 Speaker 1: for the most part, because I was doing a lot 476 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: of juggling, um with other uh career things, Um, the 477 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: show had just kind of come out whenever, and you know, 478 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: whenever I got around to it, whenever I finished something, 479 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: and so in a lot of ways, they didn't have 480 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: that luxury Like if I was kind of like working 481 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: on a story for a while, um, you know, it 482 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: might be like a month, um, you know between episodes, 483 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: and then it might be six weeks between episodes, and 484 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: it would be very hard um for me to to 485 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: shift gears. But sometimes I would kind of have to 486 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: um hopefully that would have happened when I was like, oh, 487 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: you know, it is even better this thing. This thing. 488 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: The reason why this this story is not you know, 489 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: coherent and is not um yet presentable is because it's 490 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,959 Speaker 1: not a story, or it's because I really can't crack it. 491 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: And um, so yeah, there have been times that I've 492 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 1: had to kind of abandoned ship. UM. But I've also, um, 493 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 1: there's also been a couple of stories that I've actually 494 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: done that I've actually produced and put music to and 495 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: you know kind of labored over and um, they also 496 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: just kind of stunk. And UM, I think that because 497 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: I was doing stories so so infrequently, then I didn't 498 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: have the luxury of having one that's stunk, you know, 499 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: because it's like if people had waited around, like I 500 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: didn't want to kind of bridge, you know, betray their 501 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: faith in me and betray the fact that they waited 502 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: around for something that wasn't actually good um or um. 503 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: If something was gonna sit on my website as like 504 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 1: the most recent episode and someone was just gonna like 505 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: if you're if you know, if you told your spouse like, 506 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: oh you gotta check out the Memory Palace. These stories 507 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: a great and like some clunker of a story I 508 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: was sitting on on the front page and that was 509 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: the only one they're going to listen to then, you know, 510 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: and it was going to sit there for weeks and 511 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:10,400 Speaker 1: weeks and weeks. Then that would be weeks in which 512 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: I was kind of like, you know, hurting my ability 513 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,639 Speaker 1: to hook a listener on this odd little podcast that 514 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,960 Speaker 1: I do. Uh, I know that feeling. I think we've 515 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: all been there. Um, do you have a favorite time 516 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: period or historical figure, Like I know you say you're 517 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,159 Speaker 1: not a history buff, but you've certainly been exposed to 518 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,720 Speaker 1: a lot of it as a cultural omnivore. And does 519 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 1: that guide your decisions on what topics to cover, Like, 520 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 1: for example, I am really into Queen Victoria, So I 521 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,880 Speaker 1: am always a little trepidacious about covering Queen Victoria. One 522 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: because I know I'll be a fan girl, and two 523 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: because I know I can't stay objective. So do you 524 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: ever have any of those? Yeah, I mean I have 525 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: a few, right, And I think that I think if 526 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: you you know, if you listen to you know, if 527 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: if as all of you should do, listen to all 528 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: sixty five episodes, Um, you'll see certain sort of themes 529 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: pop up, right, And some of it is that I 530 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: am drawn to, you know, the period between like eighteen 531 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: eighty and nine. Um, you know, when essentially modernity is 532 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: being created. You know, there's like I find that period 533 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,160 Speaker 1: really amazing, in part because there are so many things 534 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: that we are beginning to see for the first time. Um, 535 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 1: that we have in our daily life, whether it's the telephone, 536 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: whether it's you know, recorded music, whether it's you know, movies, 537 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: whether it's the weekend. You know, like these things are 538 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 1: being invented during that period. And so I'm constantly, you know, 539 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: interested in that moment of first encounter with new technologies, 540 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: before the kind of you know, before the shine kind 541 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: of goes away. Um. Yeah. So you know I think 542 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: that that you know, that period, you know, is is 543 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, filled with like it's like it's this period 544 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: in which they're kind of like inventing modernity. Um. And 545 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: also like there are all these fascinating failures of like 546 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: you know that really point to like different ways in 547 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: which we could you know, have still lived if if only, uh, 548 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: you know, this fat had caught on, or if only um, 549 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:09,479 Speaker 1: you know, this person had succeeded in what they were 550 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: trying to do, you know, both for good and for ill. 551 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: And so I'm fascinated. I'm fascinated by that period in particular, 552 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: And and some of the people that operate in there, 553 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: like you know P. T. Barnum, who proceeds it a 554 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 1: bit and then kind of stretches into that period, is 555 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: just everywhere. You know, there isn't a time when we're 556 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: like it's hard to like come up with you know, 557 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: a like an interesting like crazy musical act or or 558 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: or or um, you know, person in a freak show 559 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: or you know that doesn't engage with Barnum at some point. Um, 560 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: And that stuff is fascinating. But because I do kind 561 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 1: of go to that well, um, you know pretty frequently. 562 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: I think I had some of your Queen Victoria problem 563 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: where I'd be like, oh am, I doing this too often. UM. 564 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: But I think for me, UM, I think for a 565 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 1: long time, the Memory Palace, you know, it's only essentially 566 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: now becoming kind of professionalized, and um, you know, even 567 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: though I don't sort of intend to change it. Um, 568 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: you know what, I for a while it was just 569 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: kind of like an art project. It was just this 570 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: thing that I did that that people liked. And so 571 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: in treating it like an art project, I was always 572 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: sort of like out trying to um, you know, trying 573 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: to create like kind of an interesting, you know, creative 574 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: experience for myself and sort of like you know, push 575 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: push each episode like a little bit further or a 576 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: little bit differently. And so I have come to realize 577 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: that it's kind of okay to keep returning to certain 578 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: wells because like if you know, if you were if 579 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, if as like if you were a novelist 580 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 1: or you're a filmmaker, like at some point you're interested 581 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: in the stuff that you're interested in, you know, and 582 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna, you know, you've got to trust that, um, 583 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: your audience, you know, has connected with your work because 584 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: they're interested in in your on your take, and so UM, 585 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: I've kind of like, you know, I don't want to 586 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: repeat myself and I don't want to to do things 587 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: over and over again. But if I'm if I keep 588 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: being sort of engaged with certain ideas or certain stories 589 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: in a certain area, then on some level there's like 590 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: still more work for me to do there. Um, and 591 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: the well hasn't run dry, and hopefully it hasn't run 592 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: dry for the listener either. We're going to take another 593 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: brief moment for another word from a sponsor, and then 594 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: when we come back, we have a few other questions 595 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: and then we will wrap up. So, Nate, in addition 596 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: to all of your other work, one of the other 597 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: projects you have worked on is Pondy the Greatest Town 598 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: in America from Parks and Recreation, which is a show 599 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: so close to my heart. I love it so much. 600 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,880 Speaker 1: I do too. I just adore it was a good show. 601 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: That's so great I wept like a child. How did 602 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: putting together fictional history for that book compare to the 603 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: process of working on real history for your show? Um? Yeah, so, 604 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 1: uh you know, I got I got so. I got 605 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 1: the opportunity to write that book because of the podcast. 606 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: You know, Um Mike Sure, the creator of the show, 607 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: Um and Greg Daniels, the other creator of the show. 608 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 1: We're um kicking around the idea of creating one of 609 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: those Arcadia Press books. Those are those books that have 610 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: this sort of Sepia tone, like any town, USA, like 611 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,480 Speaker 1: any neighborhood in any major city has like one of 612 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: these books. Um and uh, so they thought it'd be 613 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,400 Speaker 1: fun to make up a fake one for Pawny and uh, 614 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: Mike Sure was a fan of the Memory Palace and 615 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I know Nate and he's a funny guy. Um, 616 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: you know, he'll get what we're doing. But maybe you 617 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: can also come up with sort of a plausible backstory 618 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: and um uh you know, historical backstory and so that 619 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 1: it started at that, and then the more we kind 620 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: of talked and the more we kind of like riffed, 621 00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: it kind of grew and grew and grew, um to 622 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: be sort of like a larger book with larger scope. 623 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: But um, I found it incredibly liberating to make stuff up. 624 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: You know, I mean worked as a journalist, having worked 625 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: as a journalist, and you know, and now is like 626 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: a you know, a historian like you know, in a 627 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:08,560 Speaker 1: sort of journalistic mode in a way like that like I, 628 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: you know, kind of use where that hat when I 629 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: when I kind of like dig dig into the past, 630 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: like I kind of apply the same sort of standards 631 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: um in this historical work. Um, you know, to honestly 632 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: to be able to like go in and in some 633 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: ways like apply the lessons that I've learned from history, 634 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,600 Speaker 1: not only in the historical stuff, but also like I 635 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: just got in this mode and doing the memory palace 636 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,680 Speaker 1: of like of thinking about people in certain ways of 637 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: thinking about you know, um they're sort of like Craven 638 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: needs and thinking about their their their failed attempts you know, 639 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: to make you know, to sort of achieve you know, 640 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 1: a level of importance and you know, I think that 641 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: show in particular is engaged um with that all the time. 642 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: You know, it is this sort of like very kind 643 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,239 Speaker 1: of like open hearted, um you know, saying, you know, 644 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: despite the kind of ridiculous and us of the people 645 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: of Pawnee, Indiana. Um you know, I I like, I 646 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: know for a fact, having spent time in that writer's room, 647 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: having having written an episode of the show, being friends 648 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: with it with its creator like I you know, and 649 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 1: and anyone who watches the show will know, uh you 650 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: know within a half an hour that um, they're both 651 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,800 Speaker 1: aware of the ridiculousness of the people there, but ultimately 652 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: aren't we all ridiculous and aren't we all kind of 653 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: uh interesting and fun because of it? And you know, ultimately, 654 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 1: if there's a real crossover, I think, um between the 655 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: sensibility of that show um uh you know, which obviously 656 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: hasn't more canmedic take um than uh, you know, a 657 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: story about the brutalities of of war, for instance, that 658 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,560 Speaker 1: I might you know, cover in the Memory Palace. But 659 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: it is that same sort of sense that you know 660 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:58,879 Speaker 1: that people are inherently weak, people are inherently kind of ridiculous, 661 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: but life, you know, throws very challenging things that at 662 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,799 Speaker 1: them and at us and that um you know, finding um, 663 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: those things that make us sort of, um, you know, 664 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,760 Speaker 1: not just human, but make it sort of like worth 665 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 1: being human and make it kind of fun being human. Um. 666 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 1: Are are the aspects um that I'm sort of looking 667 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,479 Speaker 1: for in the Memory Palace. UM. You know in each 668 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: of these stories, no matter how sort of distant in 669 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,840 Speaker 1: time um or uh, you know, sort of difficult the 670 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,400 Speaker 1: subject matter. I know that you like for people to 671 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: come into your episodes without a lot of explanation in advance. Uh, 672 00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 1: but you were working on your first series of of 673 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: the Memory Palace. Can you give us a hint of 674 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: what we might expect from it? You know? Um A, 675 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,399 Speaker 1: I do want you to kind of come into things cold. UM. 676 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna sort of blow it, but I 677 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,640 Speaker 1: can tell you this that UM I was. I knew 678 00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: that I wanted to do it in seasons, and you know, 679 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: I was like, well, I mean and some of that 680 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,240 Speaker 1: was just practical. It was like, well, in the past, 681 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: this is how I got the work done. Now, if 682 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do more episodes, how am I going to 683 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: get the work done? How's this going to work, and 684 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: I thought that was something I could pull off. But 685 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 1: the second I got excited about it, um beyond this 686 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: sort of like practical concerns and like building an audience 687 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,279 Speaker 1: through um, you know, by making sure they knew that 688 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,320 Speaker 1: there was gonna be something new every Monday or whatever 689 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 1: it might be. The thing that got me um excited 690 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,800 Speaker 1: about it was a dumb, romantic notion that it seemed 691 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 1: fun that there might be someone out there who remembered 692 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,719 Speaker 1: the summer of two thousand fifteen as the summer that 693 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 1: they listened to the Memory Palace a lot. I just 694 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: like that idea, Like I like that there'd be some 695 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: weird nerd kids somewhere, um who you know, like the 696 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,959 Speaker 1: Memory Palace. These stories kind of soundtracked. Uh, they're weird 697 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 1: summer job and like the summer before they went off 698 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 1: to college, or the summer they were back from college 699 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: and living with their parents and things were weird and 700 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: lonely or alternative the year they met that girl and 701 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,479 Speaker 1: everything was amazing and and uh and somehow the Memory 702 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,920 Speaker 1: Palace would be part of the background of that. So 703 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: there was the romance that of it. But the other 704 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: thing is you start to realize that like, oh, these 705 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:15,960 Speaker 1: stories are all going to be coming out in the summer, 706 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: and um, so I think you're gonna find some warm 707 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: weather stories. I think you're gonna find things. I think 708 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 1: you'll hear things, um that uh, I think makes sense 709 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: on the iPhone of that you know guy on the 710 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: road trip or that person at the shore, or that 711 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 1: person sort of stuck in their sort of office when 712 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:41,359 Speaker 1: it's sunny outside. Um. And also I do know, um 713 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,439 Speaker 1: because I've unless this thing falls apart because I can't 714 00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: pull it off, I know that there's there's at least 715 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:51,240 Speaker 1: one episode that is that is a very distinct twist 716 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: on a topic that you guys have covered. That was 717 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,400 Speaker 1: one that you're like said that people have begged you 718 00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: to do it. So it is a very popular topic. 719 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 1: And I'll leave it at that. I'm intrigued. I'm too now, 720 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: I'm all excited. I know we have at least two 721 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 1: episodes in the archive or we have specifically said there's 722 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,840 Speaker 1: one on the Memory Palace on this subject. Go listen 723 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: to it. One of them is the New England Vampire Panic, 724 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: and the other is the Lunar Beaver Lunar Beavers, Lunar Beavers, 725 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: the whole Moon Hopes, which that for us grew into 726 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: two episodes. It didn't it. Yeah, it's because I can't stop. 727 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 1: I get really excited with the weird stuff, so weird. Yeah, 728 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: why did that one grow for you? Because there are 729 00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: so many delicious weird details like the whole Oh and 730 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:38,959 Speaker 1: then we saw these bat people worshiping at this triangular 731 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: thing and it's like, how could you leave that out there? 732 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,399 Speaker 1: And then the characters were good, like they were really good. 733 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,319 Speaker 1: They were Yeah, it's so good. There's a lot of 734 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: delicious wildness to that one. I loved that episode of 735 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 1: the Memory Palace also. Yes, Like as soon as as 736 00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: soon as Holly handed me the outline for that, I 737 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: was I was like, there's a memory bolls on this 738 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: and it's so great. Oh you say it right here. Yes, 739 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 1: we we're big fans of the Lunar Beavers. Yeah. So 740 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: is anything else on the horizon for you that you 741 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 1: want to talk about or anything else that you want 742 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 1: to add? Well, you know it's I'll tell you that. 743 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,200 Speaker 1: You know you guys have have um had the sort 744 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,080 Speaker 1: of great I assume great pleasure because you have you know, 745 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: it seems like a pretty good give you guys have 746 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: of being able to really focus on this and like really, uh, 747 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,920 Speaker 1: you know, I know that you're doing it, um every 748 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: week and know know that you're um you know have 749 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 1: to sort of like both have to have to look 750 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: for stories, but also that you get to look for 751 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: stories and get to like, you know, follow your curiosity 752 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,919 Speaker 1: and do that stuff. And um, you know, so I'm 753 00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: really about to do that for the first time. And UM. 754 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,399 Speaker 1: So not only will people be getting sort of more episodes, UM, 755 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: one thing that I've been wanting to do for a while, 756 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 1: UM is to uh do live shows, which I know 757 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,960 Speaker 1: you guys are getting your went in and um, so 758 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:03,480 Speaker 1: that's been really fun for me. I had like kind 759 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: of a background and kind of being in bands, and um, 760 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,279 Speaker 1: it's been a long time since I've had the sort 761 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 1: of opportunity to perform. And I've done like single stories 762 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: here and there, um in kind of like variety show 763 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: context and it's been really fun. And so it's so 764 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: I am in the midst of planning like a proper show, 765 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,320 Speaker 1: like a like something that can that can hold people's 766 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 1: interest in and uh you know give people like kind 767 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: of like a cabinet of wonder experience um at a 768 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:35,240 Speaker 1: live show and so um, so this summer I'll be 769 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:38,319 Speaker 1: playing in Seattle and playing in Portland and then in 770 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 1: l a in in the early fall, and then I'm 771 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,839 Speaker 1: hoping to do like a proper like tour tour in 772 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 1: with my you know next season, um sometime in uh 773 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: late fall. That sounds amazing. Indeed, So your season is 774 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,600 Speaker 1: starting on June twenty one, right, yeah, runs to the 775 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,320 Speaker 1: whole summer. Yeah. So people can find the Memory Palace 776 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: on iTunes. There's also the Memory Palace dot us. Really 777 00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: give a listen. It's great. You can, you can plow 778 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: through the entire archive, uh and get all kinds of 779 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 1: just wonderful gems of stories. They're great. Thank you so much, 780 00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on show, Nate. Great. 781 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 1: I'll be listening to you guys. We will be back 782 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 1: to our regularly scheduled listener mail next time. We wanted 783 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,160 Speaker 1: to save that time to listen to a little of 784 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: the Memory Palace this time around. But if you would 785 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: like to write to us, we're a history podcast at 786 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works dot com. We're also on Facebook at 787 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,880 Speaker 1: facebook dot com slash missed in History and on Twitter 788 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,359 Speaker 1: at miss in History. Our Tumbler is missed in History 789 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,600 Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com and we're on Pinterest at petrist 790 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: dot com slash missed in History. You can come to 791 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: our parent company's website, which is how stuff works dot 792 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,200 Speaker 1: com and learn about many, many things. Or you can 793 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,600 Speaker 1: come to our website, which is missed in History dot 794 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 1: com and find an archive of all of our episodes 795 00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,479 Speaker 1: show notes for the episodes Holly and I have done. 796 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: You will have links to the memory Palace if you 797 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: would like to just find something and click on it. 798 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: From there, you can do all of that and a 799 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,719 Speaker 1: whole lot more at how stuff works dot com or 800 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:12,480 Speaker 1: mtemistry dot com for more on this for thousands of 801 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:26,680 Speaker 1: other topics, is it how stuff works dot com. M