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Speaker 1: Disclaimer.

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Speaker 2: This episode contains graphic descriptions of sexual abuse of miners

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Speaker 2: that can be disturbing to some listeners. Raoul Gonzalez only

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Speaker 2: knew one rule when it came to his dad. Never

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Speaker 2: touched the crocodile skin briefcase. It was heavy, polished or

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Speaker 2: not the edges. His dad carried it everywhere, on planes,

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Speaker 2: into hotels. Even when he came to visit Raoul, the

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Speaker 2: briefcase remained.

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Speaker 1: At an arms bridge. He never left his side.

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Speaker 2: He guarded it like it held state secrets, and as

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Speaker 2: far as.

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Speaker 1: Raoul knew, it might.

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Speaker 2: Because Raou's dad was mysterious, everything about him felt a

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Speaker 2: bit strange, the way he spoke, the way he showed

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Speaker 2: up unannounced, like a character art of a spy movie.

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Speaker 2: Praauo knew his dad was an executive for the Shell

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Speaker 2: Oil Corporation who had to travel a lot for work,

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Speaker 2: so his visits were always an event.

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Speaker 3: He visited us like when we were really young. I

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Speaker 3: have the memories, like when he was going to go home.

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Speaker 3: I was really happy, like wow, my dad is coming.

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Speaker 3: And I was always at front of my house waiting

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Speaker 3: for his car to arrive.

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Speaker 2: This is Raoul speaking years later. In his thirties, trying

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Speaker 2: to make sense of the man who raised him. Raoul

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Speaker 2: grew up in Cornavaca, a large colonial town just south

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Speaker 2: of Mexico City, in a small house with his mom, Blanclada,

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Speaker 2: his younger brother Christian, and his older half brother Omar,

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Speaker 2: who had a different father. His mom was loving, but strict,

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Speaker 2: working class, deeply religious. She met Rabul's father in Tijuana

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Speaker 2: at a cafe when she was just nineteen and he

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Speaker 2: was fifty six.

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Speaker 1: He said his name was Concer Rivas.

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Speaker 2: She was impressed by his fancy job at shell, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes he hinted at something more. He never lived with them,

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Speaker 2: never even spend the night. Said it was safer that way.

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Speaker 3: No, even when he went to visitors, he stayed in

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Speaker 3: a hotel. He didn't sleep in my house.

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Speaker 1: He came and went.

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Speaker 2: He'd show up for a week and then vanished for months.

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Speaker 2: Then one day he would be back like nothing happened,

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Speaker 2: And every time it was the same routine. Gives in

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Speaker 2: hand stories about far away countries and a new destination

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Speaker 2: in mind. His dad's name was JOSEL Rivas, but that

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Speaker 2: wasn't the only name he used.

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Speaker 4: He uses a lot of names. The favorite name for

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Speaker 4: him was Jose Rivas.

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Speaker 3: He uses Raoul as me senor Raoul, and the other

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Speaker 3: one that is in my certificate when I was born,

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Speaker 3: it says Jimelberto Gonzalez Rodriguez.

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Speaker 4: That's another name.

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Speaker 2: His dad never really explained why he had so many names.

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Speaker 2: He just said it was part of his job to

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Speaker 2: keep them safe. But eventually blanket demand that answers a

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Speaker 2: reason for all the secrecy, so he told her the truth,

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Speaker 2: at least his version of it.

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Speaker 3: My dad told my mom that he was a CIA agent.

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Speaker 2: Saying so much the aliases, why he didn't visit often,

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Speaker 2: and how he had the money to take the kids

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Speaker 2: on lavish trips to Disney World, to Spain, Italy, Colombia.

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Speaker 3: And he visited us like maybe three or four times

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Speaker 3: in a year, like months. But most of the times

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Speaker 3: we traveled with him, sometimes my brother, my older brother Omar,

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Speaker 3: sometimes myself alone with my dad, and sometimes the two

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Speaker 3: of us with my dad.

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Speaker 2: To the kids, it felt like an adventure, like they

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Speaker 2: were being pulled into something special. Their dad wasn't like

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Speaker 2: other dads. He flew across oceans, he spoke different languages,

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Speaker 2: he carried a briefcase, that no one could touch as

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Speaker 2: a kid, I really imagine what might be in that briefcase,

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Speaker 2: maybe maps, or all contacts, maybe even something top secret.

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Speaker 2: He never imagined it carried something that would destroy his

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Speaker 2: life because a man with a briethcase wasn't with the CIA,

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Speaker 2: He wasn't.

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Speaker 1: Even an executive as Shell.

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Speaker 2: He was Marcial Maciel, founder of the Legionaries of Christ,

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Speaker 2: a priest, a liar, and Raoul's father. Because sometimes evil

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Speaker 2: doesn't kick down the door. Sometimes it pulls into your driveway,

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Speaker 2: carrying gifts, wearing a suit, calling itself that.

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Speaker 1: My name is.

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Speaker 2: Alena Sadah and this is secret scandal, the many Secrets

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Speaker 2: of Martial Marseil. Episode seven, The Family Trips will be

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Speaker 2: right back the tape you've been listening to was recorded

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Speaker 2: by Jason Barry's an interview he did with Raoul Gonzalez

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Speaker 2: in the early twenty tens as part of his investigation

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Speaker 2: into the Legionaries of Christ. You may remember Jason from

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Speaker 2: episode three. He's a journalist who first exposed Moselle in

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Speaker 2: the Hartford Current. Over the years, Jason spoke to dozens

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Speaker 2: of people, victims, former priests, insiders, but this interview this

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Speaker 2: one stayed with him and just the heads up, what

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Speaker 2: you're about to hear is hard. What Raoul went through

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Speaker 2: as a child is painful, and from time to time

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Speaker 2: you'll hear Jason's voice on the other side asking the

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Speaker 2: hard questions. Raoul's story begins when he was just a kid, right.

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Speaker 3: I grew up like a normal child on my neighborhood

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Speaker 3: with my neighbors, my friends, and my brother.

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Speaker 2: Raoul lived in the typical Mexican neighborhood. There was school,

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Speaker 2: cartoons and soccer in the streets. Raoul's idyllic childhood change

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Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven when his father surprised him with

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Speaker 2: a solo trip just for the two of them.

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Speaker 1: His mother wasn't invited.

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Speaker 2: She had to stay home to work and to care

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Speaker 2: for Raoul's baby brother, Christian. This time they went to

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Speaker 2: a place Raoul had only ever heard about in geography

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Speaker 2: class Colombia.

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Speaker 3: It's kind of some islands in Karagena or you have

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Speaker 3: to get there by boat.

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Speaker 4: That's the only way.

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Speaker 3: They have like little hotels inside small hotels when you

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Speaker 3: can have a night.

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Speaker 2: They also stopped in Bogota, the capital, at some point,

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Speaker 2: but most of the memories from those trips blurred together,

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Speaker 2: the airports, the taxi, the hotel rooms, except.

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Speaker 1: For one morning.

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Speaker 2: That one never faded, the morning when he realized his

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Speaker 2: dad was in bed with him.

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Speaker 3: These abuse happened in the early morning. I don't know

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Speaker 3: exactly the time. We were waking up, and I feel

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Speaker 3: like he was He started to pull out my pants

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Speaker 3: and he introduced.

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Speaker 4: His Spanish, and the point of his Spanish in my well.

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Speaker 4: I don't know how to say the world.

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Speaker 2: There Will sometimes has trouble finding the right words in English.

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Speaker 2: But what he's trying to put into words is that

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Speaker 2: his father sexually assaulted him. He was just a kid,

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Speaker 2: seven years old, but he instantly knew that this was

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Speaker 2: not supposed to happen.

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Speaker 4: And that's when I moved.

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Speaker 3: I said, like, whoa, this is not right, this is

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Speaker 3: not like I don't know, my instinct, like human instinct

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Speaker 3: tell me, like WHOA, you can't.

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Speaker 4: So I moved and he stopped.

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Speaker 2: Some of his memories of that morning are hazy, like

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Speaker 2: what exactly happened afterwards. He still has trouble speaking about it.

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Speaker 2: He remembers a heavy paralyzing feeling. Other things are crystal clear.

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Speaker 3: I remember that I had a breakfast, like my orange

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Speaker 3: juice and my eggs. It's not really sometimes normal that

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Speaker 3: when you're seven years old you remember what you have

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Speaker 3: for breakfast. So that impression caused me, like I was eating,

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Speaker 3: like having my breakfast.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what was going on in my mind.

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Speaker 2: What happened before that breakfast, the confusion, the fear. He

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Speaker 2: buried it deep, because when you're seven, you don't have

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Speaker 2: the words. You don't even know how to think about it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it was just a bad dream, Maybe it was

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Speaker 2: something strange that would never happen again. So he lucked

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Speaker 2: it away. A couple of days later, I flew back

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Speaker 2: to Mexico. He got home, hogged his mom and said nothing.

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Speaker 4: My mom trusted him because he was my dad.

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Speaker 3: He was my dad, and like it's like if okay,

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Speaker 3: if you have your dad, well okay, well go with

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Speaker 3: your daddy, go on a trip. It's no problem. My

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Speaker 3: mom never imagines that I was suffering abuses.

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Speaker 2: Blanca had no reason to doubt him. No one thinks

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Speaker 2: the father of their kids is molesting them. She also

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Speaker 2: had no idea that the man they called Rosse Rivas

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Speaker 2: was actually a priest at the height of his power.

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Speaker 2: This was thirty years after he assaulted Joseb Aarbae in Rome.

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Speaker 2: In all those years, Mozille had been completely free to

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Speaker 2: go on abusing innocent boys, and now even his son

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Speaker 2: had become his victim. Raoul never told anyone what happened

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Speaker 2: on that trip to Colombia, not then, not for decades.

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Speaker 1: He kept it to himself.

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Speaker 2: And as hard as it is to understand, he still

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Speaker 2: loved his dad, still trusted him, because that's what kids do.

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Speaker 2: They believe the people they love are good. Months went by,

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Speaker 2: and just like alvoys, once in a blue moon, his

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Speaker 2: father would show up and announced, smiling, carrying the same

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Speaker 2: crocodile skin briefcase. He had that soft voice, that way

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Speaker 2: of making everything sound like an adventure. He told oh,

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Speaker 2: he was going somewhere new, someplace far, but this time

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Speaker 2: it wasn't just the vacation.

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Speaker 3: And he said, okay, Raoul, you are leaving. You're traveling

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Speaker 3: to Ireland to learn your English. And I said to

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Speaker 3: n English, okay, and I just like a boy, you

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Speaker 3: just followed the instructions with my dad, and I traveled

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Speaker 3: to Ireland.

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Speaker 2: He started classes at a regular public school in Dublin.

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Speaker 2: He was placed with a local family, strangers who treated

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Speaker 2: him kindly, but everything fell foreign. The city was gray

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Speaker 2: and wet, and he really missed home Cornovaca. But more

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Speaker 2: than anything, he missed his older brother Homage.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes I treat I have.

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Speaker 3: I had trips to Spain to see my dad and

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Speaker 3: to see my brother Omar, and in that trip happened

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Speaker 3: the second abuse.

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Speaker 4: He was in Madrid and the hotel holiday inn.

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Speaker 3: My dad always said like he had a sort a

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Speaker 3: pain in the leg, so we have to put our

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Speaker 3: leg to his his leg to warm it up. And okay,

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Speaker 3: you have a short leg. You're old, you are an

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Speaker 3: old person. Okay, But then he started to touching us

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Speaker 3: so to bring us his hand to his pen is.

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Speaker 3: He always told us that how to kiss had to

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Speaker 3: kiss him because he was That's the way we were

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Speaker 3: going to learn how to kiss a girl when we grew.

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Speaker 5: Up and you were ten eleven years old.

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Speaker 4: Ten whoa, I can have to stop. That's hard, it's hard,

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Speaker 4: I understand. Just went on for a number of years. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: It was during one of those trips that Raould finally

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Speaker 2: understood what was actually inside his dad's briefcase and why

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Speaker 2: he never left his side. Mazielle opened the briefcase once

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Speaker 2: more and took out a polar camera. He handed it

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Speaker 2: to Raoul.

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Speaker 3: And he said, I told my brother Omar, like you

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Speaker 3: have to take the photos and I have to masturbate him,

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Speaker 3: because that's what's the instructions. And I gave my brother

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Speaker 3: the polaroid camera and we talked the photos and we

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Speaker 3: like we kept a bunch of photos there and we

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Speaker 3: didn't know what happened with the photos.

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Speaker 2: The photos went straight into the briefcase and then vanished,

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Speaker 2: lost between pills, fake passports and magazines.

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Speaker 3: But he had a magazine, pornograph pornography, magazine parentheses. He

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Speaker 3: always show us pornography like magazines, a hardcore not women

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Speaker 3: like hardcore pornographie.

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Speaker 2: He carried it like it was nothing, through airports, Vatican meetings,

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Speaker 2: family homes, like he was just another bag. That's how

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Speaker 2: confident he was, just strolling through life with the evidence

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Speaker 2: tucked under his arm, like no one would ever stop him,

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Speaker 2: like he was above it all.

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Speaker 3: So making up my mind these days, like okay, what

222
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:08,560
Speaker 3: do you want the photos for? So my guessing is,

223
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 3: like my feeling is those photos maybe were passing inside

224
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,160
Speaker 3: other people like a pornography.

225
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 2: Matsiel had photos he took while molesting his own children,

226
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,640
Speaker 2: images that captured ra Mark in some of the most

227
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:33,000
Speaker 2: dramatic moments of their lives, and those photos disappeared. No

228
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 2: one knows where they are, for not knowing what happened

229
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,640
Speaker 2: to them is something he has to live with, the

230
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 2: fear that they might still exist in a door somewhere

231
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,080
Speaker 2: or in someone else's hymns. And even though in Mark

232
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:54,640
Speaker 2: their entire childhood, never spoke about it, not until their thirties.

233
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,720
Speaker 2: They suffered this for nearly a decade, taking trips with

234
00:16:59,760 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 2: their that slipping in separate rooms where each of them

235
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:09,400
Speaker 2: was abused, traveling with their father across countries. By day

236
00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:14,600
Speaker 2: there were tourists posing for photos, visiting monuments, walking through

237
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:21,320
Speaker 2: historic cities, and by night, more abuse, more photos, sometimes

238
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:22,159
Speaker 2: with other people.

239
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,640
Speaker 4: In Kartakna, we went to.

240
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:35,440
Speaker 3: Rosarium, but with the difference that he hired prostitutes. Two prostitutes.

241
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,640
Speaker 3: Have the picture with my dad and the prostitutes as well.

242
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:44,800
Speaker 2: Alongside those photos, Mazill also get pictures from their trips

243
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:49,080
Speaker 2: to the Vatican, like the times I met the Pope.

244
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were in a small chapel and John Paul

245
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,760
Speaker 3: the second. The Pope was offering mass there and I

246
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 3: was on the really front of the chapel, and he

247
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,360
Speaker 3: came at the front to start shaking hands, and they

248
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,440
Speaker 3: shake the hand with him.

249
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,640
Speaker 2: Laulil even got photos with the Swiss cards.

250
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,639
Speaker 5: Do you ever compare all the photographs he showed you,

251
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 5: the pornography on the one side and the photographs of

252
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 5: you and the Vatican on the other.

253
00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:32,439
Speaker 3: Well, it's like a demon that transforms his himself, like

254
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,800
Speaker 3: when he wants to be a good person and he

255
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,959
Speaker 3: wants and when he wants to be a bad person,

256
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,359
Speaker 3: a good person when acts like our daddy, and a

257
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,119
Speaker 3: demon when he acts like a predator.

258
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,639
Speaker 2: For years, Raoul couldn't make sense of who his father

259
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 2: really was, but he was beginning to understand what many

260
00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 2: experienced that Mazielle had two faces, the face he showed

261
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,160
Speaker 2: to the world and the one he hid in the dark.

262
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 2: He was a father with gifts and stories, and a

263
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 2: monster with a suitcase full of secrets. But secrets can

264
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,359
Speaker 2: only stay hidden for so long. Back in Guarnavaca, Blanca

265
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 2: was finally going to figure out who Joser Rillas really was.

266
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 1: And what he had been hiding all along more than

267
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 1: that after the break.

268
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:44,280
Speaker 2: It was nineteen ninety seven, months after Jason Barry had

269
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 2: exposed mysel in the Hartford Current. After some years living abroad,

270
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,439
Speaker 2: Raoul had returned home to Mexico. He was seventeen now.

271
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,320
Speaker 2: He went back to school in Guarneralaca. He tried to

272
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 2: live like a normal teenage, tried to block out what

273
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 2: his father had done to him. For years, the visits

274
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 2: became less frequent, the trip stopped. But sometimes the past

275
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 2: doesn't stay buried. Sometimes it jumps off a new stand.

276
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:21,120
Speaker 1: It was a.

277
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:27,159
Speaker 2: Regular afternoon in Cornavaca, hot loud street full of vendors.

278
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: Blanca was running errands.

279
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 2: She passed the same corner she always did, with the

280
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 2: same new stand she'd walk by a hundred times. But

281
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:44,679
Speaker 2: this time something stopped her. A magazine called Contendo. Right

282
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 2: there on the cover a face she knew, the square glasses,

283
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 2: the sharp stare. She knew it instantly. It was a

284
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 2: man she had loved and the father of her children.

285
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 2: But the name beneath it didn't say Josse Rivas. It

286
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:08,200
Speaker 2: said Marcil Marciel de Goado, and the headline read, who

287
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 2: are the Legionaies of Christ?

288
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: Blanka couldn't believe it.

289
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,679
Speaker 3: And she saw this magazine called Contindo and whoa Like

290
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 3: he said what and he bought the magazine.

291
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,560
Speaker 4: That's it, and then she brought it to the house.

292
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 2: Raoul and or Mar happened to be home. She showed

293
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 2: them the magazine, almost like she was trying to prove

294
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:36,919
Speaker 2: herself wrong. Raoul took one look on Froze. The moment

295
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 2: stayed with him. You can hear it in his voice

296
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,439
Speaker 2: even now. Maybe that's why you'll hear Raoul coughing throughout

297
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 2: the interview. It might be a nervous stick, the kind

298
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 2: some people get when words get stuck in their throat,

299
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,640
Speaker 2: when memories start to surface but can't quite make their

300
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:56,160
Speaker 2: way out.

301
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,440
Speaker 4: And I said, whoa. The two of us went like, God,

302
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 4: what's going on? No, you knew it was your father. Yeah,

303
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 4: And then.

304
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 3: He called my mom said, al rawl, my dad, you

305
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 3: are in a magazine and he said, no, really which magazine? Contindo?

306
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 3: And he said, oh, it's not me. And he said, okay,

307
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 3: I'm in New York. I have to take the first

308
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 3: plane to Mexico to see what's going on. And then

309
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 3: he put in contact with me and he said, hey, Raul,

310
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 3: I'm gonna send you this envelope with money, and you

311
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 3: have to go to all the places puestos periodico.

312
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 2: His father told him to buy every copy of the

313
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 2: magazine he could find, every newsstand, every store all of Cordnavaca.

314
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: Why it clean. It took him all day.

315
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 3: And I started traveling, run downtown, all the hills courts

316
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 3: and still buying up the magazines. Even the guys that

317
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 3: sells that magazine told me, hey, no, no, no, leave me someone,

318
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 3: but I'm still buying for you. I'm still buying this

319
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 3: of you.

320
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 4: Okay.

321
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 3: I kept the magazines and he phoned me at night

322
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:17,920
Speaker 3: and he said, you have the magazines.

323
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 4: He said, yeah, I have the magazines.

324
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna send this guy with like a chauffeur

325
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:29,399
Speaker 3: with bags and you have to keep through how you

326
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 3: say magazine magazines, put them on the bags and just

327
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 3: take them away.

328
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 1: That's when it became undeniable for hours. This was real.

329
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 2: His dad was also a powerful priest who ran an

330
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 2: international Catholic empire.

331
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 3: And they said, whoa Catholic church the most powerful in

332
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 3: the world. And then we said, okay, that's why our

333
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 3: dad told us that where he worked, the people were

334
00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 3: really dangerous.

335
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 2: Well, couldn't make sense of it. His mind was full

336
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 2: of confusion, and the nile all dangled together. But then

337
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 2: he grabbed the magazine again and read the word abuser.

338
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 2: And that's when it clicked. All the memories he had buried,

339
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 2: kim brushing back, all the things he couldn't name for years.

340
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: It was all real and it had a name.

341
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 2: Now.

342
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 5: So did you say anything to him?

343
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 4: No?

344
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 5: Never, wow, Ma never had a conversation with him about

345
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 5: being a priest.

346
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 4: Never, even after the magazine, even magazine.

347
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, but we were so afraid of comfort him, like, ah, that's.

348
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 4: A liar, that's you.

349
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 3: So we were, to be honest, we were we were

350
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 3: like really afraid of what was going on when we

351
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,640
Speaker 3: saw that magazine.

352
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: And so no one talked about it.

353
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 2: The family stayed silent, but things started to shift, Like

354
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 2: the time Asil suggested to Blanca that Christian, their youngest son,

355
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,159
Speaker 2: should also go to Ireland to study English when he

356
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 2: turned eight, just like Raoul.

357
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 3: My mom wants, or like a Kate like my dad said,

358
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 3: he I want to bring Christian with a holiday and

359
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,479
Speaker 3: my mom said no, wait, waitit wait, my dad said

360
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 3: why because my mom said, you know why, Raoul, you

361
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 3: know why.

362
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 2: You know what you did. I'm not giving you my child.

363
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,239
Speaker 2: It was the first time Blanca said it aloud, and

364
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: the last time Mazille ever mentioned taking Christian anywhere. By then,

365
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,920
Speaker 2: everyone in the house had seen the magazine, They read

366
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: the accusations. They knew, but this the closest Mazille ever

367
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 2: came to a confrontation with his own family. Raoul had

368
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: always suspected his father wasn't who he said he was,

369
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 2: but now that he knew it, he didn't know what

370
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 2: to do with that. He couldn't talk to his mom,

371
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 2: he couldn't talk to his brother, so he just kept

372
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 2: it all inside. He tried to live like a normal teenager,

373
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 2: tried to focus on school, but the truth kept slipping

374
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 2: through the cracks like water in a sinking boat.

375
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 4: I felt like really bad. I don't know how to

376
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 4: express the feeling, but I was. It was not normal

377
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 4: what I was feeling.

378
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: He called his dad, hoping for help, that one person

379
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 2: he should have been afraid to call. But sometimes when

380
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,199
Speaker 2: you're drowning, you reach for the hand that pushed you in.

381
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: And Masiel, he said he just needed rest. He told

382
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 2: him to take a pill and.

383
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,479
Speaker 3: I said, pasted one week or two weeks. And he

384
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 3: followed me again, he said, how are you feeling? I said, no,

385
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 3: I'm feeling worse. I'm not getting any I'm not getting better.

386
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 2: So myself threw him to Madrid and took him to

387
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 2: a psychiatrist, but not just any psychiatrist. He called in

388
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: someone he trusted, someone who wouldn't ask too many questions.

389
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 3: And then he told me, Okay, we're gonna treat you

390
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 3: very well because you're recommended by the father or something

391
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 3: like that, and.

392
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 4: I felt like secure. I said okay, and then tell

393
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 4: me what's happening with you?

394
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 3: And I couldn't never express that I had that all

395
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 3: my life occurred abuses, but I told him that I

396
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 3: was I had a feeling like I was thinking if

397
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 3: I was almost sexual.

398
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,199
Speaker 4: And he said, what do you think that? I don't, oh,

399
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 4: I think I'm homosexual.

400
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 3: Because I was feeling guilty that all the abuse, that

401
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 3: I was guilty.

402
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 4: That my that abuse and I.

403
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 3: Kept the abuses going on and he said, the doctor said, no,

404
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 3: you know howmosexual. This is something that is going to pass.

405
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: Just nineteen couldn't figure out what he felt He didn't

406
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: have words for any of it. He kept looking for

407
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 2: his dad for comfort. But how do you ask for

408
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: help when the person who hurt you is the same

409
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 2: one telling you everything is fine.

410
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,160
Speaker 3: I think that the worst part that really didn't The

411
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 3: only time where I rest, that I could rest myself

412
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 3: is when I sleeped. When I was sleeping all the day,

413
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: I was thinking, it's like it was like an obsession

414
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 3: of what happened all my life.

415
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 4: If I was guilty of this, this is this was

416
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 4: this my fault.

417
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: During this difficult period, Raoul staying in an apartment in Madrid,

418
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: one that belonged to a friend of his father's. He

419
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 2: shared the space with a woman and a twelve year

420
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: old girl, Norma and Normita. He knowed them for years.

421
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: They were close. Normita had even joined them on some

422
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: other family trips around the world. But the first time

423
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 2: he met them was much earlier, when he was just

424
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 2: a kid. Raoul remembers getting a call from his dad

425
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: inviting him to visit him in Rome.

426
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: He was eight or nine years old.

427
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 3: He picked me up on the airport on a Mercedes

428
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: Bloo Mercedes and he brought me to this apartment. And

429
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: when I got into the apartment. There was like three

430
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 3: women and a little.

431
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: Girl, sad quietly looking around at these unfamiliar faces. He

432
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: didn't know who they were, so he asked, and that's

433
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 2: when Massiel told him.

434
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: These are your your aunts, and this is your sister. Okay,

435
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 3: call her your little sister, like we say in Mexican Ermanita.

436
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 2: For anyone who didn't grow up in a Latino family,

437
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 2: this might sound strange, but in Mexico, anyone close is

438
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: considered family. Your mother's best friend, your tea, the neighbor's

439
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 2: next door also your tea. Half the woman in your

440
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: life are teas. So Jaul didn't question that. Not at first.

441
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Speaker 2: It just felt like another layer of strange secret world

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Speaker 2: his father had built around him. But now, ten years later,

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Speaker 2: living in that apartment in Madrid with Norma and Urnita,

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Speaker 2: with all the lights and secrets unraveling, it finally clicked.

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Speaker 2: Norma wasn't just a close friend. Normita wasn't just the

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Speaker 2: little girl who joined their family trips. His dad, the

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00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: man who lied about his name, his job, who spent

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Speaker 2: years abusing him, who lived a secret life as a

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Speaker 2: founder of a global religious empire, also had another family.

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Speaker 2: This is secret Scandal, The Many Secrets of Marcel Mazielle.

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Speaker 2: Sacred Scandal The Many Secrets of Marcelle Moselle is a

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Speaker 2: production of AHA Podcast in partnership with Iheartmichael Tura Podcast Network,

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Speaker 2: and is hosted by me Elena Sadah, written by Malissa

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Speaker 2: Hendrix and Alvalosaspedes, Produced by Alvalo Cspes and Robert Tagarza.

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Speaker 2: Research and reporting by Robertagarza, edited by Jasmine Rometo with

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Speaker 2: the help of Carmen Graterol. Fact checking by Annabella Tovar,

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Speaker 2: the vocal coach for me Elenezada is Ina Tabia. Executive

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Speaker 2: producers at A Her Podcast are Carmen graterov, Isaac Lee,

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Speaker 2: and j H Khr. Mixing and sound design by Patrick

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Speaker 2: and Jones. Original music by Darko and I Am based

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Speaker 2: on Patrick Hart's original composition. Executive producers that I Heard

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Speaker 2: are Leo Gomez and Arlene Santana. Alexis Cardosa also serves

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Speaker 2: as producer. Sircars Scandal was created by Melanie Bartley and

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Speaker 2: Paula Varos