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Speaker 1: you Express pros dot com. Now here's a highlight from

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Speaker 1: coast to coast AM on iHeart Radio. Nick Redfern is

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Speaker 1: the author of more than forty books on UFOs, Lake

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Speaker 1: Monster Zombies, Hollywood scandals, and of course he's investigated the Roswell,

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Speaker 1: UFOL conspiracy, women and black Men in Black and so

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Speaker 1: many more's and he is a regular guest on Coast

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Speaker 1: to Coast. Welcome Nick Redfern. Nick always a pleasure. Hey,

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Speaker 1: George Lightwise has things things are good? Are our Webmaster

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Speaker 1: of the Night, Greg Bishop says, Hello, says he just

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Speaker 1: as one of your dear friends. Yeah, I've known Greg

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Speaker 1: many years, probably twenty years now something like that. That's great,

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Speaker 1: super super super brand new book out Shape Shifters. What

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Speaker 1: are shape shifters? Neck Well, I think when you mentioned

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Speaker 1: shape shifters, people traditionally, you know, think of classic werewolf

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Speaker 1: type stories. But when I was putting the book together,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that sort of really intrigued me

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Speaker 1: was the fact that, you know, you can go far

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Speaker 1: beyond just the issue of werewolves when you're talking about

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Speaker 1: shape shifters. For example, in the book, I've got stories

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Speaker 1: of people claring just seen bigfoot type creatures sort of

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Speaker 1: literally morphing into other creatures, reports of men in black

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Speaker 1: actually sort of sort of changing their shape and form,

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Speaker 1: and so, in other words, the book really doesn't just

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Speaker 1: sort of focus on as I said, the traditional werewolf folklore,

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Speaker 1: which is certainly in the book, but it also demonstrates

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Speaker 1: how so called shape shifters can be found in the

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Speaker 1: UFO subject in relation to Native American belief systems. UFOs

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Speaker 1: crop circles, the chopper cabra, and so in other words,

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Speaker 1: it basically goes far beyond the the sort of the

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Speaker 1: general image that people have of when you start talking

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Speaker 1: about things morphing, monsters and change in cryptosy. You know,

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Speaker 1: it covers all that, but it also goes much further

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Speaker 1: as well. It's really a book on the supernatural, isn't it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it is. I mean, it's the The whole issue of

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Speaker 1: shape shifting is very controversial, and the more you look

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Speaker 1: into it, the more you find we are dealing with

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Speaker 1: something that is sort of definitively supernatural, but rather than

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Speaker 1: extraterrestrial or traditional crypto zoology. Um. And that's one of

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Speaker 1: the sort of the challenging things you're dealing with a subject, which,

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Speaker 1: you know, when you're dealing with the paranormal, the supernatural,

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Speaker 1: even the occult, you find yourself really going down some

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Speaker 1: very odd and sinister pathways really, and particularly with regard

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Speaker 1: to these sort of nightmarish shape shifter creatures. Was there

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Speaker 1: ever a time neck early on in your care you're

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Speaker 1: that you would have said to yourself and this stuff's

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Speaker 1: not real? Come on, Nick, Well, um, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: you know that you always have to keep an open

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Speaker 1: mind on various things like this. And of course, the

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Speaker 1: more controversial the subject is, the more rigorous you need

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Speaker 1: to be in terms of investigating the stories. And that's

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Speaker 1: what I did, you know with this book. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there are sort of multiple dozens of you know, firsthand

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Speaker 1: interviews with people. And I always think it's important too

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Speaker 1: when you're speaking to people, you know, you become a

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Speaker 1: good judge of character. And when you speak to people

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Speaker 1: and they you know, you sit opposite them and you

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Speaker 1: hear these stories and you can see the concern in

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Speaker 1: their eyes, you know, and in their voice, um, and

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Speaker 1: you know they just want answers as to what happened. Um.

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Speaker 1: For me, that this demonstrates, you know, the credibility of

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Speaker 1: the witnesses. Even the stories are incredible and highly controversial.

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Speaker 1: So I always think, you know that it's the witness

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Speaker 1: testimony that is so important, and it's important, you know,

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Speaker 1: to help to try and determine the validity of what

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Speaker 1: they're saying, you know, and the best way to do

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Speaker 1: that is sort of first hand interviews, get corroboration, and also,

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Speaker 1: as I also point out in the book, you know,

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Speaker 1: actually get out to the sites where these encounters have

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Speaker 1: occurred and look for the things on a first hand basis.

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Speaker 1: You have talked about skinwalkers in the book. How did

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Speaker 1: they enter the story? Well, that the skin walker, you

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Speaker 1: know is a very u intriguing but also sinister type

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Speaker 1: character which plays a major role in Native American law,

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Speaker 1: and to the extent that a lot of people in

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Speaker 1: the Native American world will not even mention the word,

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Speaker 1: you know, as I talk about in the bird. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've referred to it in the book as the s

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Speaker 1: word because some bit a lot of people that they

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Speaker 1: literally will not talk about it. Now, the the skin

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Speaker 1: walker is as a sort of very dangerous or potentially

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Speaker 1: dangerous shapeshifter that, according to the ancient law, can take

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Speaker 1: on multiple different forms. And but also there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of bizarre and sinister side effects as well. For example,

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Speaker 1: when people have been in the enclosed proximity to skin walkers,

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Speaker 1: um they've reportedly fallen sick and ill very quickly, almost

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Speaker 1: as if they've been sort of paranormally infected or supernaturally

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Speaker 1: infected in some way. And and talking about sort of

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Speaker 1: first hand investigations. Back in two thousand and ten, I

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Speaker 1: did a TV shoot for v H one where we

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Speaker 1: actually went out into kept the California desert where there

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Speaker 1: have been reports of skin walker type creatures, and I

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Speaker 1: actually got to see first hand the seriousness with which,

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Speaker 1: you know, these reports are taken, and also the deep

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Speaker 1: concerns that people had about reluctance I should save and

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Speaker 1: about talking with regard to these experiences. But one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I was told was that the of

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Speaker 1: the various sort of multiple forms that nature American law

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Speaker 1: suggests the skin walker can turn into. Um, many of

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Speaker 1: the people talked about seeing these giant walls which were

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Speaker 1: far bigger than any regular wolf that you would you know,

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Speaker 1: you would ever see, and they include sort of prehistoric

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Speaker 1: walls as well. UM. And again, you know, listening to

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Speaker 1: these stories of people telling me how they saw these

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Speaker 1: sort of massive walls that reportedly could walk on four

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Speaker 1: legs and also rise up onto their back legs as well,

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Speaker 1: you know, not only did it create sort of a

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Speaker 1: werewolf type imagery, but it demonstrated, you know, the sort

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Speaker 1: of bizarre nature of these skin walkers. And a couple

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Speaker 1: of people tell me stories of how they'd seen these

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Speaker 1: wolf type creatures morph into the form of like an

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Speaker 1: old lady and sort of it's still looking old ladies.

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Speaker 1: So although you know that the skeptics might write these

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Speaker 1: stories off as just folklore, what fascinates me is that

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Speaker 1: these ancient beliefs are still there, you know, and they're

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Speaker 1: taken extremely seriously as well. They are. And you know,

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Speaker 1: with these skin walkers, have they ever been known to

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Speaker 1: hurt anybody? Well, that's an interesting question. I guess it

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Speaker 1: depends how you sort of define, you know, hurt people.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I talk again in the book, and you know,

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Speaker 1: just briefly mentioned earlier, how people have talked about having

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Speaker 1: fallen sick and ill in close proximity to to skin walkers. Now,

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Speaker 1: in that particular situation, we're talking about people literally almost

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Speaker 1: overnight in some cases, going down with very bizarre and

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Speaker 1: rare and serious illnesses that you required emergency treatments. And

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Speaker 1: I think I've probably got some in the region about

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Speaker 1: seven or eight cases of people who who allegedly were

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Speaker 1: in very very close proximity to these creatures, including these

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Speaker 1: large wolf like animals, and and then they got sick. Now,

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Speaker 1: whether that's just you know, a byproduct of some sort

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Speaker 1: of energy given off by the skin walkers, or whether

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Speaker 1: it's a deliberate attempt to target us, you know, but

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Speaker 1: I think the jury is still open on that. But

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Speaker 1: to say that they have, you know, there have been

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Speaker 1: people harmed by being in proximity to these creatures, that

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Speaker 1: is correct. Gradford with us. His latest book is called

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Speaker 1: Shape Shifters. You toss in Men in Black and shape shifting,

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Speaker 1: how do you correlate that? Well? I think, you know, George,

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Speaker 1: one of the interesting things is when you think about

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Speaker 1: the Men in Black, most people outside of youthology would

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Speaker 1: think of, you know, Will Smith and Tubby Lee Jones,

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Speaker 1: and even for a lot of people in euthology. You know,

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Speaker 1: the assumption is that the men in Black are government agents,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. But when you look at the vast

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Speaker 1: majority of all the reports, there are actually a lot

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Speaker 1: of weird and supernatural aspects to the men in black cases.

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Speaker 1: You know, they're typically described as being very pale and

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Speaker 1: skinny and give off this sort of sinister vibe, the

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Speaker 1: reports of men in black turning up on people's doorsteps

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Speaker 1: late at night and having this sort of controllability to

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Speaker 1: force people to open the front door and let them in,

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Speaker 1: you know, so it actually takes us down some very

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Speaker 1: odd pathways now in terms of shape shifters. Um. One

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Speaker 1: of the most bizarre stories that I got, this going

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Speaker 1: back to a couple of years, came from a lady

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Speaker 1: who had had a UFO encounter. This is in California,

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Speaker 1: and a UFO encounter, and two days later was visited

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Speaker 1: by these two creepy men in black, you know, the

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Speaker 1: classic imagery of this sort of tale, no personality exactly,

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Speaker 1: kind of almost zombified like, and and warned her not

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Speaker 1: to talk about these particular encounters that she'd had, and

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Speaker 1: she was sort of terrified, you know, just pinned to

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Speaker 1: the couch with fear. And as they got up and

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Speaker 1: left the room and went to the front door, opened

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Speaker 1: the front door, went down the driveway, and the woman

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Speaker 1: just basically sort of had the strength and power to

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Speaker 1: stand up to slam the front door behind them. As

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Speaker 1: she went to do that, she said she saw the

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Speaker 1: man in black kind of shimmer and they sort of

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Speaker 1: shrunk into two balls of light, bright balls of light,

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Speaker 1: which then winked out of existence. Now, reports like that

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Speaker 1: are almost incredibly impossible to to figure out and understand properly.

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Speaker 1: It's difficult to comprehend too, isn't it. Yes it is.

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Speaker 1: But that's actually not the only case I've got along

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Speaker 1: those lines. And equally bizarre one is a man and

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Speaker 1: his wife who had their own encounter with a man

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Speaker 1: in black and who in a very bizarre situation they said,

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Speaker 1: morphed into like a large black dog with fiery, blazing

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Speaker 1: red eyes. Yes, so you know, it really takes us down,

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Speaker 1: almost like a real life horror story. So ton and again,

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Speaker 1: I spoke to these witnesses both personally, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: in person, not just on the phone of our email,

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Speaker 1: and they all came across as very very credible, even

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Speaker 1: though the stories are incredible, And for me, it demonstrates

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Speaker 1: further that whatever the men in Black are, it goes

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Speaker 1: far beyond you know, as I said the Will Smith

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Speaker 1: Tommy Lee jig of it sounds like you don't believe

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Speaker 1: their government agents. Now I don't believe the men in

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Speaker 1: Black are. Now that's not to say that occasionally you know,

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Speaker 1: governments may have possibly even sort of utilized or exploited

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Speaker 1: the man in black phenomenon by actually dressing up in

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Speaker 1: the black suits and you know, silencing people in certain

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Speaker 1: UFO cases. But I think if that has happened, it's

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Speaker 1: because the government has latched onto the pre existing ripport

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Speaker 1: which are far more supernaturally based. And but these stories

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Speaker 1: of the men in black kind of changing their form,

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Speaker 1: they're not they're certainly not you talked about in the

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Speaker 1: vast majority of the reports, but there are enough cases

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Speaker 1: on record where they have changed their form, their shape

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Speaker 1: into you to another kind of entity or with these

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Speaker 1: balls of light, um, it kind of suggests that they

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Speaker 1: may be some sort of intelligent energy almost you know,

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Speaker 1: the idea of literally being able to alter their form

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Speaker 1: from human looking to the sort of like beach ball

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Speaker 1: sized balls of light which then wink out of existence.

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Speaker 1: Did anybody ever say that the branded weapons or anything

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Speaker 1: like that, now that that that's the you know, the

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Speaker 1: odd thing. You would imagine that if they were from

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Speaker 1: the government or you know, from some rogue agency, that

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Speaker 1: there would be a degree of you know, flashing I

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Speaker 1: D cards and warning people, and you know, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's almost as if the threat actually is it's kind

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Speaker 1: of delivered by things that just are not human. I

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Speaker 1: would say, of all the you know, having done several

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Speaker 1: books on the Men in Black, I would say, close

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Speaker 1: to one of the reports I have actually fall into

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Speaker 1: this weirder, far more supernatural category. Where As they said

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Speaker 1: they look kind of zombiefied and pale, they look ill

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Speaker 1: and sickly. And again there's also a parallel with the

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Speaker 1: Skinwalkers that there are a number of reports where after

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Speaker 1: the Men in Black have left the in the days

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Speaker 1: that follow, their witnesses again like the Skin Walkers have

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Speaker 1: fallen sick again, as if some sort of supernatural residual

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Speaker 1: energy of a very negative nature has been left behind

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Speaker 1: in the home and it's sort of impact gone the

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Speaker 1: on the health of the person, which, of course, you know,

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Speaker 1: again takes it far far away from the you know,

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Speaker 1: the angle of its agency or that agency. Listen to

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Speaker 1: more Coast to Coast a m every weeknight at one

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Speaker 1: a m. Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more