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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to What Future. I am your host,

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Speaker 1: Joshua Zapolski, and today on the show, we've got very

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Speaker 1: important things to talk about. We've got very present, recent, shocking, upsetting,

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Speaker 1: thrilling things to discuss, and of course talking about what's

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Speaker 1: going on with Elon Muskin, Mark Zuckerberg and social media online. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot happening. There's a lot going on out there.

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Speaker 1: There's a whole new landscape, and I wanted to get

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Speaker 1: the world's foremost expert into the show to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: So we dialed up our friend Casey Newton, who is

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Speaker 1: an absolute genius and scoop machine, you might say, when

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Speaker 1: it comes to social media and frankly lots of other things,

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Speaker 1: and I just needed to talk to him. I had

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Speaker 1: to get him here and figure out what the hell

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Speaker 1: was going on. So let's get into it. Casey, thank

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Speaker 1: you for coming back on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's my sincere pleasure. Thank you for having me, josh

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Speaker 2: I love that. Just be generous as always.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, anyhow, really quickly, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: what we need to talk about, which is threads. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but before that, I was telling Jenna a story and

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Speaker 1: I felt I need to finish it, and you should

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Speaker 1: hear it too, because you deserve it. I went to

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Speaker 1: a ear nose and threads specialist today and long and

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Speaker 1: long the shirt, I got a probe into that they

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Speaker 1: put up my nose that went into like my throat.

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Speaker 1: She's like, this will feel a little uncomfortable, and I

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Speaker 1: was like, please take that out of my nose.

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Speaker 2: Please take that out of my nose, Please take it

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Speaker 2: out of my nose.

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Speaker 1: It was supremely uncomfortable, and she was just like jerking

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Speaker 1: it around in there, like snaking it around. Fucking anyhow,

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Speaker 1: just that was the experience I had before the podcast.

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Speaker 1: So I want you to know I'm in a pretty

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Speaker 1: fragile state right now.

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Speaker 2: That sounds terrible.

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Speaker 1: What's what's the what's the prognosis for you have a

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Speaker 1: deviated septum? No shit, Sherlock, I have a huge nose

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Speaker 1: with a bump in it. So she I was like,

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Speaker 1: She's like, well, you do have a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a deviated septim. I'm like, really, I didn't know that

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Speaker 1: by looking at my face. It's like, you didn't need

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Speaker 1: to go all the way into my mouth with the

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Speaker 1: probe to know that. I have a deviated She's like, anyhow, whatever,

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Speaker 1: this the the prognosis is, I need to probably get

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Speaker 1: some stuff done to my nose to make it more

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Speaker 1: beautiful and more less Jewish.

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Speaker 2: No rhinoplastic, rhino plastic.

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Speaker 1: She's like, we can like clear, we can make it

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Speaker 1: more clear in which is basically what I want because

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Speaker 1: I can't really like breathe through it. So anyhow, so

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Speaker 1: I'm excited about getting some elective surgery. Maybe, I guess

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Speaker 1: because they're like, you don't need to, but you'll be

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Speaker 1: more comfortable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds great.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of things going up your nose, Elon Musk recently

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Speaker 1: tweeted that he sorry, did he and Mark say? He

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Speaker 1: actually tweeted that he and Mark Zuckerberg should have an

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Speaker 1: actual penis measuring contest?

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Speaker 2: Is this correct? Yeah, that's right, that's where we're at.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure he was sober when he.

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Speaker 1: When he hits Yeah, that gome famously sober Elon, famously

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Speaker 1: sober and normal person, Elon Musk. Okay, let's back up.

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Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. Yeah, the year is nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty five and Microsoft is just introduced as DAWs. No, sorry,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm like also got like no sleep last night,

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Speaker 1: so I'm going to really rare I'm going a rare place.

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Speaker 2: Because of your nose or because of something else. Oh,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Just everyone's just life, just the press years of life,

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Speaker 1: this life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all those loose things in.

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Speaker 1: Your house because yeah, and also my air conditioner is

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Speaker 1: not working in here, so it's very hot, disagreed when

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Speaker 1: it rains the poors. It's been pouring here actually in

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Speaker 1: New York. So so well.

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Speaker 2: There you go.

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Speaker 1: For the listener who listens to the show but doesn't

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Speaker 1: know what's going on on social media, which has got

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Speaker 1: to be like one weird guy who accidentally subscribed to this.

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Speaker 1: But can you just set up a little bit about

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Speaker 1: what has just happened in the world of social media,

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Speaker 1: just like in terms of I'll just say Facebook has

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Speaker 1: launched a new product called Threads. Can you just talk

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Speaker 1: a little bit about life? Yeah, what threads is and

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Speaker 1: where it came from.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Threads is a Twitter clone that was created to

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Speaker 2: destroy Twitter.

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Speaker 1: No, not a clone. They're like, it's not a clone.

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Speaker 1: It just looks it works exactly the same.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they've said it's not a clone. It is a clone,

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Speaker 2: And within three days that had one hundred million users,

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Speaker 2: and so you.

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Speaker 1: Know, real quickly, sorry, real quickly, what are the active

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Speaker 1: users of Twitter?

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Speaker 2: Number wise? So it's very hard to say because the

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Speaker 2: I lost so many users this the year and they

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Speaker 2: don't report numbers publicly anymore. But let's assume it's between

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Speaker 2: two and three hundred million. Okay, so in five days?

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Speaker 1: Is it Threads, which is a Twitter clone that Facebook

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Speaker 1: has introduced, has a third of the audience of Twitter,

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Speaker 1: which has been in business for like seventeen years or something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, all right, now, now we should say

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Speaker 2: this number is the one hundred million for Threads is

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Speaker 2: like essentially the number of people who've created an account

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Speaker 2: and downloaded the app. The Twitter number is sort of

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Speaker 2: active users, so it remains to be seen about hundred

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Speaker 2: million how many of them are still using it in

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Speaker 2: thirty days. But I think odds are good that this

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Speaker 2: thing is going to be legit.

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Speaker 1: Right, So so Mark Zuckerberg and who is the head

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Speaker 1: of Instagram, Adam Mussiri.

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Speaker 2: Odam A Siri?

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Speaker 1: Yeap, Yeah, they're like Twitter is being run awfully by

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk, and we could just maybe turn on a

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Speaker 1: Twitter cloned and then like extinguish Twitter.

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Speaker 2: Is that the idea? Do you think for threads? Yeah? Basically? So, Look,

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Speaker 2: you know, it did not take long after Elon Musk

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Speaker 2: took over Twitter in October of last year to realize

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Speaker 2: that he was tanking it right. Every single decision he

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Speaker 2: made was worse than the one that came before it.

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Speaker 2: And so by December, the folks inside Facebook are saying,

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Speaker 2: should we maybe just take another run at this? Because

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Speaker 2: of course they had tried over the years a lot

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Speaker 2: of different things to compete with Twitter, none of them

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Speaker 2: had really taken off. But because Elon Musk was alienating

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Speaker 2: so many at Twitter users, all of a sudden it

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Speaker 2: looked like there might be this real opportunity. So they

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Speaker 2: got to work in it in December, and we finally

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Speaker 2: saw the fruits of their labor this month.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which is like pretty much like Twitter, Yeah, except

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Speaker 1: the people who are popular on there are people who

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Speaker 1: are historically popular for not talking and like looking like

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Speaker 1: something or doing something that you look at because like

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Speaker 1: it basically pourted Instagram. It's like it's connected to I

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Speaker 1: think it's worth saying, yeah, And this is a brilliant

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Speaker 1: strategy on their part. If there was anything in the

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Speaker 1: Facebook universe. It felt like it was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: if you've got Twitter on your home screen right next

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Speaker 1: to it, there's gonna be a thing you're bouncing over to.

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Speaker 1: Probably it's Instagram, right, which is a far more popular,

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Speaker 1: far more used social network. I mean, it's got like

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Speaker 1: a billion users, more over a billion, over a billionisers,

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Speaker 1: but it's obviously a photo and now video sharing app primarily.

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Speaker 1: I have already patted myself on the back on Threads.

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Speaker 1: I will pat myself on the back oh my podcast.

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Speaker 1: I wrote for a thing of The New Yorker about

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Speaker 1: how Twitter sucked. Actually it's amazing because I went and

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Speaker 1: reread it and it's like everything that sucked about Twitter

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Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen under Jack Dorsey. It's the same stuff

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Speaker 1: that sucks under Elon Musk, but it's like way super

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Speaker 1: duper magnified. It's like, yeah, you know, it's like harassment

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Speaker 1: and like bad moderation and confusing policies and a product

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Speaker 1: that doesn't really work that well. It's like exactly the

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Speaker 1: same shit. And in that piece, I was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: if Instagram wanted to like probably immediately kill Twitter, they

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Speaker 1: could just make a text based version of Instagram or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and it's like literally what they were like, Hey, we

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Speaker 1: have a cool social network that everybody's staring at all

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Speaker 1: the time.

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Speaker 2: So yes, that's just I think because look at the

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Speaker 2: threads product today. If they have rolled it out in

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Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, you and I would be rolling our eyes

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Speaker 2: out of the back of our heads. You would have said,

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Speaker 2: this is the least. We would say, They're not even

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Speaker 2: trying this thing?

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Speaker 1: Is it?

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Speaker 2: One? I owte a different than Twitter? It is dead

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Speaker 2: on arrival? Correct? What changed? Is Twitter tanks so hard

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Speaker 2: that a bear bones copy of it run By like

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Speaker 2: a sort of more competence organization, just instantly rocketed into superstartup,

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Speaker 2: right it is? I mean there are some differences. We

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Speaker 2: should say.

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Speaker 1: It does not yet present a chronological feed, which is

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Speaker 1: the business for Twitter for most users.

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Speaker 2: I think, not for most, but for for a lot

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Speaker 2: of die hard users. It is important to see a

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Speaker 2: reverse cod.

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Speaker 1: Feed for the most important ones, for the ten percent

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Speaker 1: of people who create ninety percent of the content on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: the chronological feed is somewhat important. True, But they say

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Speaker 1: Facebook says it's coming Mata or whatever they're called these days,

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Speaker 1: and also Mark Zuckerberg posts on it, which is a

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Speaker 1: thing that he's not. He only has done one post

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Speaker 1: in like eleven years or something on twit, and it

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Speaker 1: was the Spider Man pointing at each other meme, which

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Speaker 1: is like kind of I mean, poking the bowl or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Whatever that's saying, is like, if you don't want to

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Speaker 1: make someone think that you've copied their product, I would, personally,

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Speaker 1: if I copy someone's product, I would not post on

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Speaker 1: their product with a thing that's like a copy of

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Speaker 1: a thing pointing to the thing that is the real thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's, you know, right, one man's opinion. I mean, look,

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Speaker 2: I think the meme was funny, but also they are

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Speaker 2: odd thread saying we're not trying to closee Twitter, and

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Speaker 2: then you use the Spider Man meme that means, oh, look,

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Speaker 2: these two things are the same, so you kind of

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Speaker 2: got to pick one. Yes, exactly, No, That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: It's like if there is ever a court case, which

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Speaker 1: there won't be, because like, honestly, you can't really make

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Speaker 1: an argument that Twitter does anything particularly special at this point,

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Speaker 1: Like it's a feed of words, which is basically every

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Speaker 1: blog in the world. Like, if you really want to

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Speaker 1: get down to it. It's they're small blogs. It's a

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Speaker 1: micro blog, which is exactly what it would have been

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Speaker 1: known as like ten years ago, and like that's not

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Speaker 1: really you can't really trademark that shit at this point,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: No. Also, do you know how many patents on Facebook

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Speaker 2: has around social networks and feeds and stuff? Like they

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Speaker 2: both the ones they filed on the ones they've bought,

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Speaker 2: like they're going to win that fight if it comes

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Speaker 2: to court, which, as you point out, it's not.

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Speaker 1: They're like, oh, do you want us to have the

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Speaker 1: conversation about who has more patents on like words on

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Speaker 1: a screen or whatever the fuck it is? Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: Twitter's just so fucking bad and gross and depressing and

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Speaker 1: full of like Nazis and like Elon Musk fanboys and whatever.

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Speaker 1: Like I hardly ever look at it. I was messing

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Speaker 1: around the Blue Sky when it came out when I

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Speaker 1: got I mean you were. I think I might have

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Speaker 1: bullied you about using Blue Sky or something. Matt masted

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Speaker 1: on the it was what I bullied you about using

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Speaker 1: one of the wanna be social networks.

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Speaker 2: I think it is masted On. Look, I've been I've

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Speaker 2: been using all of them. It's very important to me

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Speaker 2: that something to replace Twitter, because Twitter is not just

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Speaker 2: a source of enjoyment for me, it's like part of

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Speaker 2: how I run my business is by like posting things

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Speaker 2: in public to try to get people to click on

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Speaker 2: them and maybe pay the money. So I was going

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Speaker 2: to be flogging all of these things, right, and you

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Speaker 2: know Blue sky had its moment, but it just didn't move,

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Speaker 2: you know, the sort of recurring theme of all these things.

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Speaker 2: They just didn't move fast enough. And then you know,

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Speaker 2: along comes Meta.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean blue skuy has like one hundred and

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Speaker 1: fift thousand users, a hundred fifty thousand or something like that.

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Speaker 1: It's massed on has millions, but it's like it's just

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Speaker 1: a it's not like a centrally managed thing. It just

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Speaker 1: feels like, you don't know what the hell. It's very

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Speaker 1: hard to get started un masted on, Like just in

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Speaker 1: terms of usability, right, I think like what Threads has done,

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Speaker 1: besides having a built in social media ready audience, like

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Speaker 1: the audience was sitting there. It's like you already are

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Speaker 1: communicating probably every day with people on their other platform

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Speaker 1: in that fashion. So it's just fewer pictures and more talking,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, like I don't want to like put

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Speaker 1: the cart before the horse. I know everybody's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: Twitter's gonna rally or whatever, but like I don't feel.

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Speaker 2: No, wait, everybody is saying, like I feel.

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Speaker 1: Like people I have seen people say, oh, it's the

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Speaker 1: early days, you know, Well that's true. You know it's

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Speaker 1: going to even out. People be less excited because this

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Speaker 1: happens has happened with all that other stuff we were

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Speaker 1: just talking about, Like people are like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: like Blue Sky, there's the fucking articles in the New

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Speaker 1: York Times about it. There's like fifty thousand people signed

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Speaker 1: up for it, Like you know, it's like then it

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Speaker 1: died down and everybody's like, Okay, well to Twitter, I guess.

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Speaker 1: But this is like I feel like a lot of

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Speaker 1: the people that I want to follow and know and

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Speaker 1: care about listening to on social media are already there. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's harder to find them at this point, but they're there.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, yeah, it's not run by Elon Musk.

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Speaker 1: Which this is the weirdest thing of all of this

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Speaker 1: is like somehow Mark Zuckerberg has become like he looks

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Speaker 1: good in this scenario, which is unheard of. For him

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Speaker 1: unheard of.

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Speaker 2: Basically, Yeah, there's been a real sort of reversal perception.

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Speaker 2: And I think it just speaks to the fact that

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Speaker 2: for all of the crap that people gave Twitter over

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Speaker 2: the years, much of it justified. People really did love

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Speaker 2: the role that it played, right, They wanted something to

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Speaker 2: play that role. Now when it started to go walkie,

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Speaker 2: they missed it. And then Zuckerberg comes along and says

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Speaker 2: I can do it. And the fact that he happens

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Speaker 2: to be in this hugely entertaining personal feed with Musk

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Speaker 2: just makes it all the better. Yeah, there's something that

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Speaker 2: you haven't brought up, Josh, that I think is super important,

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Speaker 2: which is the rate limiting fiasco, because it actually explains

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Speaker 2: a lot I think about how we got here.

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Speaker 1: Oh.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'll be honest with you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I have been fairly tuned out from the rate

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Speaker 1: limiting fiasco because, as I said, I have kind of

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Speaker 1: abandon Twitter. Yeah, I mean I've caught a little bit

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Speaker 1: of a bit I think for also for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people listening, like it's fairly it's a fairly complicated

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Speaker 1: little story.

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Speaker 2: Can you give us the narrative? Well, you know, the

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Speaker 2: gist is that for a bunch of reasons. They decided

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Speaker 2: that they were going to restrict people from viewing more

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Speaker 2: than six hundred tweets in a day unless you payd

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Speaker 2: elon Musk money. You can only look at six hundred

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Speaker 2: tweets in a day, right, And that might sound like

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Speaker 2: a lot, but you know, if you're spending fifteen or

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Speaker 2: twenty minutes browsing, which I don't think is a crazy

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Speaker 2: amount of time to be browsing a socia, just brows

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Speaker 2: while you're talking. I'll see if I can hit Okay,

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Speaker 2: I want to see what happens. Yeah, just see if

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Speaker 2: you can hit the limit. Go ahead, Yeah, see if

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Speaker 2: you can hit the limit. And you know, you dip

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Speaker 2: in and replies, you look at some profiles, all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, you've hit your six hundred limits. So you know,

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Speaker 2: even in its decaying state, I would still have Twitter

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Speaker 2: open on my desktop and just glance over it occasionally

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Speaker 2: to see if there was some piece of breaking news

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Speaker 2: or whatever. When the rate limiting thing happened, roughly a

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Speaker 2: week from the time that we're recording this ago, it

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Speaker 2: just stopped scrolling. New tweets stopped loading. You just got

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Speaker 2: a message that said you've exceeded your rate limit, so

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Speaker 2: it became literally worthless in the sense you couldn't even

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Speaker 2: see anything that was happening there. So you know, earlier

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Speaker 2: we were talking about how news junkies want that chronological

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Speaker 2: feet because they want to know what's happening. Right the

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Speaker 2: second Twitter actually stopped serving that purpose. So that was

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Speaker 2: the moment that Meta saw and when they saw that,

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Speaker 2: they said, we're going to accelerate the launch of threads

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Speaker 2: by a week because we know that this is our

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Speaker 2: time to strike. So they actually did something really savvy,

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Speaker 2: which is they seized on the absurd opportunity that Elon

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Speaker 2: Muskin created for them.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean, I'm just first off, I'm scrolling Twitter,

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Speaker 1: and I honestly I'm impressed that people continue to post

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Speaker 1: on here.

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Speaker 2: I have to say, like, I understand there's in it's disgusting,

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Speaker 2: like like I have posted a physic It's like watching

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Speaker 2: people smoke. That's how I feel about it.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I did not post the last episode of the

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Speaker 1: show I've at like on Twitter, I will probably post this,

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Speaker 1: but then I'm kind of like maybe, but like i'd

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Speaker 1: probably get better engagement on threads where I have, like

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Speaker 1: I don't know, seven thousand followers or something like not

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Speaker 1: nearly as many, but like they're actually interacting with me

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Speaker 1: and seeing my content.

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Speaker 2: I'm just dying to get to this rate limit.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he did the rate limiting because like

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Speaker 1: he's not paying his like server bills and like they

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Speaker 1: don't have enough capacity.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they have been radically reducing their investment in

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Speaker 2: just kind of the basic infrastructure that you need to

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Speaker 2: run the site. So they went from I believe it

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Speaker 2: was three data centers down to two. They may be

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Speaker 2: trying to go to one, you know, a platform or

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Speaker 2: my newsletter, we published a story of a month or

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Speaker 2: so ago that they hadn't been paying their Google Cloud Dell.

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Speaker 2: That has now been resolved. But yes, I mean I

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Speaker 2: do think that there is a chance that that is

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Speaker 2: the case, and we're we're actually still reporting that story out,

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Speaker 2: so you know, if you're a platform subscriber, hopefully you'll

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Speaker 2: learn more about that soon.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, I'm very I'm very interested to learn more

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Speaker 1: about all the stupid things that are happy at Twitter.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is there is there what's the latest, like

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Speaker 1: what's the latest piece of reporting you've done on this?

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Speaker 1: Like the what's the or I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: can talk about something you're working on now, but I'm curious, like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you're talking anybody inside of Twitter,

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Speaker 1: Like what if there's been a reaction there, I feel

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Speaker 1: like you probably might be.

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Speaker 2: What I can say is just that chaos continues to rain.

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Speaker 2: You know, they have this new CEO, Linda Yakarino, who

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Speaker 2: sort of made a big show of saying, Hey, I'm

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Speaker 2: here to make this website, say for brands, and we're

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Speaker 2: going to get this advertising engine spun up again. And

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Speaker 2: then it was like a week later that the rate

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Speaker 2: limiting thing happened, and so all of a sudden, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're an advertiser, like you, your reachs ben dramatically reduced.

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Speaker 1: Right, You're like, oh, so you stop showing stuff after

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Speaker 1: six hundred views of content? Like that's actually on that note,

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Speaker 1: that's the kind of like worst website in the world

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Speaker 1: doesn't do that. You know, it might break, I guess

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Speaker 1: if it gets over capacity, but exactly, you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean like that basically would kill ad viewability for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, right, I mean absolutely yeah. I actually

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Speaker 1: kind of didn't contemplate how insane the rate limiting thing

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Speaker 1: is it's like it's so bizarro. It's just such a crazy,

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Speaker 1: weird move. I mean, at this point it kind of

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Speaker 1: feels like, and I don't know if you have any

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Speaker 1: insight on this or thoughts, but like, is Elilmo was

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Speaker 1: just trying to do it in like does he just

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Speaker 1: want to do value it so much that he can

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Speaker 1: like get some kind of like right off, like some

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Speaker 1: tax right off for it.

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Speaker 2: So there's this There is this pretty good theory. There's

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Speaker 2: a reporter, William Cohen at Puck who's written pretty persuasively

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Speaker 2: about this that it does seem like, whether intentionally or not,

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Speaker 2: that Twitter is cruising for a bankruptcy in part because

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Speaker 2: it is simply not paying a lot of its debts. Right,

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Speaker 2: So at a certain point a handful of its creditors

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Speaker 2: can come together and say, this guy isn't paying our debts,

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Speaker 2: and we can essentially force them into an involuntary bankruptcy, right,

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Speaker 2: which sounds bad for Elon Musk. However, if it happens,

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Speaker 2: the debt that he took on to a choir Twitter

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Speaker 2: could possibly be reduced by something like thirteen billion dollars. Right, So,

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Speaker 2: if Elon tanks it, he might wind up, you know,

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Speaker 2: saving himself a cool thirteen billion.

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Speaker 1: Okay, maybe this is a naive question to ask, but

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Speaker 1: wouldn't a some kind of the governing body that handles

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Speaker 1: bankruptcies be able to look at his behavior and say, well,

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Speaker 1: you didn't actually try to run the company properly, like

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Speaker 1: you basically decided to bankrupt it. I mean, can you

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Speaker 1: because like you know what I mean, Like it seems

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Speaker 1: like there'd be a law against people going like I

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Speaker 1: ran my business bad on purpose, so I could bankrupt

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Speaker 1: it and get out of a tax bill or whatever,

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Speaker 1: get out of my debt, paying my debt. Like people

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Speaker 1: would do that all the time, I would imagine, Right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you're you're right, And yet I feel like, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: we live in a society where there are almost no

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Speaker 2: consequences for billionaires. I don't know, it's it's concerning, as

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Speaker 2: Elon mus would say.

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Speaker 1: Right, and do you think the threads unfinished at that point,

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Speaker 1: like when they decided to launch it, Like, do you

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Speaker 1: think it was like, hey, we have an opportunity, he's

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Speaker 1: really blown it. We have a product that's like good enough. Ye,

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Speaker 1: do you feel like it's an unfinished product?

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Speaker 2: Right? Now, yeah, I think they want to spend another

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Speaker 2: week polishing it, and there was probably some stuff that

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Speaker 2: might have gotten added to the product. But now they're

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Speaker 2: just spending all their time trying to keep the site

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Speaker 2: afloat because they did not expect to have one hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollars I'm sorry, one hundred million users in three days.

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Speaker 2: You don't think they did, no, but it was it

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Speaker 2: was basically ready, you know. I just think it would

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Speaker 2: have come out, you know, maybe a week.

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Speaker 1: Later, right, Like, because you can't it's very hard to

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Speaker 1: find peoplele on. It's very hard to follow people. It

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Speaker 1: keeps it really wants me to follow Demi Levado like

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Speaker 1: more than anything, do it.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you.

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Speaker 1: One of the things about Threads that has been fascinating

433
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:46,000
Speaker 1: has exposed how much like vapidity there is amongst people

434
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,600
Speaker 1: who post on Instagram. Like, the stuff I'm seeing on

435
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 1: Threads is some of the all time worst posting that

436
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 1: I've ever seen in like in my life.

437
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen many varieties of bad posts, but the

438
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,320
Speaker 2: one that sticks with me is I keep seeing these

439
00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:02,280
Speaker 2: accounts that have of like that include the word betch

440
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,840
Speaker 2: in their name, like Bitch with E, which was like

441
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 2: something that like millennial women would say in the early

442
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,719
Speaker 2: two thousands, and I guess you know, they created these

443
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 2: Instagram accounts. It's like dumb betch and they post this

444
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 2: like you know, relatable like jokes like and for women,

445
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 2: and that's fine on Instagram, but you put it on

446
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,960
Speaker 2: something like Twitter, and you just could not ridge harder.

447
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, it's it's it's there's a

448
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 1: kind of avalanche of crazy shit that I'm seeing. First off,

449
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,600
Speaker 1: on day one it was especially chaotic because I hadn't

450
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 1: really followed them. It definitely is like picking up on

451
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: who I'm following and then like giving me more of

452
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,880
Speaker 1: that stuff. But on day one it was just like, hey,

453
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: we turned on all the stuff for you, like just

454
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 1: check out what's coming out from all over threads. And

455
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 1: it was like, you know, one thing was like Gary

456
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: Vee doing some inspirational stuff about hustling, hustle culture, and

457
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,120
Speaker 1: then it was like a fucking f one thing.

458
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,440
Speaker 2: You know, it's like what's your who's your favorite f

459
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 2: one racer?

460
00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 1: And then and then it's like accounts like you're like

461
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 1: fuck Jerry and like the Betch the Betch accounts that

462
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: are like trying to do their mean thing. They're trying,

463
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 1: like and it's so it's like the most desperate shit

464
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 1: because they like showed up and they're like, oh shit,

465
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 1: I only have like forty thousand followers, and on Instagram,

466
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: I have like forty million followers, and they're like the shit.

467
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 1: Like hype Beasts, hype Piece is the one that gets

468
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 1: under my skin the most. To be honest with you,

469
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,919
Speaker 1: hype Piast, which is a just if you don't if

470
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 1: you're listening, you don't know. HiPE Piece is a brand

471
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,080
Speaker 1: that covers streetwear. It's on the cutting edge of fashion culture.

472
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: It is like probably actually in the last like ten

473
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,760
Speaker 1: or you know, fifteen years, one of the most important

474
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: like blogs that exists because they kind of captured this

475
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 1: moment in streetwear that happened that kind of when it

476
00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: took over the fashion industry. And they are posting shit

477
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: and I don't even know if the people at hype

478
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: beests know that they're posting this. They're posting shit on

479
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 1: threads like what did you have for breakfast?

480
00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 2: Yes?

481
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 1: Do you pour the milk in first or the or

482
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 1: the cereal first? And I'm like, I'm like, this is

483
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: not only is it not aligned with your shit at all,

484
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 1: Like just absolutely out of alignment with what you do.

485
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: But it is like the worst, dumbest, lamest, most boring

486
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 1: posting I've ever seen.

487
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's what's going on. There is a there's a

488
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 2: land rush going on. There's a gold rush. There's a

489
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 2: gold rush on a land that because people know that

490
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 2: if you can get fast early on a site like this,

491
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 2: you'll have that big follower account forever. And so you

492
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: have these people that are just going hogwild, you know,

493
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 2: like the Nike account yesterday I saw this was just

494
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 2: like sort of served up to me. I do not

495
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 2: follow Ikey, and it just posted a drop your favorite shoe.

496
00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 2: And this is like nobody, like, who's gonna just read like,

497
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 2: you know, five hundred replies about favorite shoes.

498
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: But they're fucking people are replying like like the uh,

499
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: look at the hype beest thing, the hype beast thing. God,

500
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:42,680
Speaker 1: look at the hype I want to look at that.

501
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 1: I want to look at the replies to this. I

502
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: screenshot in one and then I reposted the other because

503
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: I didn't want to I didn't want to amplify them anymore. Yeah, mourning,

504
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: how do you like your eggs eight hundred and thirteen

505
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 1: this was yesterday, eight hundred thirty replies, twelve hundred and

506
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: fifty one likes. Someone fucking hit like on that no

507
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 1: on morning Thread or cerial First or milk First, eleven

508
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,880
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty four replies, fifteen hundred and forty five likes.

509
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: And you know what, the Highbe's account six hundred and

510
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: eleven thousand followers, they're crushing. They're doing very well for

511
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: themselves right now.

512
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 2: But if you look at the ratios back, because they

513
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 2: do have all those followers, and yet three hours ago

514
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: they posted quote not even eleven am here in NYC

515
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 2: and I'm already thinking about lunch lmao.

516
00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's only got eight hundred likes. So you know,

517
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: I'll tell you one thing, and this is true of

518
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: all of these new social networks. It has made me

519
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,400
Speaker 1: re evaluate my existence on the Internet. Like I'm kind

520
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 1: of like, you know, like we spent I think you're

521
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 1: probably the same way. You spent probably most of your

522
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 1: time building your following on the Twitter. Yeah, because that's

523
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 1: where the journalists talk like, that's where you post your story,

524
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: that's where the action was, right, Like for a long time,

525
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: like if you had a great scoop or if you

526
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: wanted to talk to like other people in the media

527
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:49,880
Speaker 1: who you wanted to see your story or just people

528
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: who were media junkies.

529
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 2: Twitter's the place, right, that's just like where they go.

530
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now it's like again, the engagement's actually way

531
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: better on almost all of these other social networks. But

532
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like, do I even want to? And

533
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 1: you know, maybe I'm speaking from a very rare position,

534
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: like you know, I probably don't need to necessarily have

535
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: a huge social media following, though my producers at the

536
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: show would definitely say otherwise.

537
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 2: And when do you say you're speaking from a special

538
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 2: position do you mean as someone with a.

539
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,400
Speaker 1: Dev I mean it's someone who has been probed today

540
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: and has a deviate to abdom you know, it's funny

541
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: when but after the probe and I was like, I think,

542
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 1: like that helped a little bit, Like maybe I should

543
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: just be probing. Maybe that's what I need in my life. No,

544
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: Like I'm like at a point I think in my

545
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 1: career and with what I do, like I I think

546
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 1: I can just do what I do and not have

547
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: to worry too much about like whether somebody saw like

548
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:42,199
Speaker 1: my story.

549
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're you're above you know you don't need these

550
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 2: unwashed me.

551
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,439
Speaker 1: I'm in the smoky, the leather chair filled smoke smoke

552
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: filled rooms where the I'm in the room where it

553
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: happens currently.

554
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, Peter TiAl doesn't post, and either does

555
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 2: Dosh Dapolski. Okay, guys, they made it.

556
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right, we don't. And when we meet for

557
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: when we meet for our special club of very important people, for.

558
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: Your infusions of twink blood. Yeah, it's so great not posting,

559
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 2: isn't it. God, I'd love to.

560
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: I would love to spend even a little bit of

561
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: time with Peter Teal would be so fucking weird.

562
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: He loves talking to I don't think he'd do it.

563
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 2: I don't think you'd do it.

564
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: But hey, Jenna, can you put on the list after

565
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: our FK Junior and uh Liver the liver Man? Is

566
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: that with the guy the guy we were talking about

567
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: last week? Can you have add Peter Teal to the

568
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: podcast bookiet list? Thank you anyhow? Yeah, So it's kind

569
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: of like it's interesting, but like, I don't know how

570
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: many followers do you have on threads?

571
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: And this is not.

572
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to I'm not trying to do a

573
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 1: dick measuring competition like on Moscow.

574
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, well let me just whip this out, John, Yeah,

575
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 2: it out. I've got a twenty six thousand. That's pretty good.

576
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: That's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.

577
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: But I'm kind of like, do I want to put

578
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: and this is I think an interesting question for a

579
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: lot of people actually, And I feel like Twitter and

580
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: tell me a few senses or feeling at all. The

581
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: Twitter has accelerated this feeling of insane fatigue, social media fatigue,

582
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: and like this idea of like do I need to

583
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: be looking at this shit? And do I want to

584
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: be looking at this shit? And like is it healthy

585
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: or is it doing anything for me? My feeling has

586
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 1: been like over the last couple of years, but especially

587
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 1: since Elon took over Twitter, I'm like, I think I

588
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: just don't I can just not look at it and

589
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: it's okay, Like I'm okay, Well.

590
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 2: I think you're getting at something real. Which is that

591
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 2: a lot of the appeal of social networks, particularly new

592
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: social networks, it is they are a place where people

593
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 2: can build status and clout. You can't establish yourself, you

594
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: can gain a reputation for something. Maybe that even turns

595
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: to money for you if you associate it with some

596
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: sort of business. Right. And then there are other people

597
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 2: and let's we could, for example, just call them like

598
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: people in their forties who have already achieved their status

599
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 2: and their clout and so they don't need to race

600
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 2: it age us. But they feel bad because they know

601
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 2: that it is actually cool to participate in new social networks.

602
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: So they just feel the spiritual exhaustion of not needing

603
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,360
Speaker 2: to participate, but realize that not participating indicates that they've

604
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 2: given up on their lives.

605
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: You think it's an age thing, that's interesting. I think

606
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 1: it's more like a amount of time I've been blanched

607
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: in social media. I feel like I've been I feel like,

608
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: you know, you you put the they put someone put

609
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: the spinach in.

610
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: You know it.

611
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: It's a big full Yeah, it's a huge amount of spinach,

612
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: and then it's just been in the water for a

613
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 1: pretty long time and now there's just one little tiny

614
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: speck of spinach in there. That's how I've my feeling

615
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: is about social media in general. And I don't I

616
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: don't know if it's my age. Obviously, I've been doing

617
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,200
Speaker 1: it a long time. But I also think it's like

618
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: social media doesn't feel like it's getting better and more interesting.

619
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 1: It feels like it's getting less good and less interesting.

620
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's as good or it's as interesting

621
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: as it ever was. I think it just sort of

622
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 2: depends on you know, where are you in your life?

623
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: What role is this play? Huh see?

624
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: I disagree with that because I think there's this general

625
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: fatigue with like the amount of stuff that people have

626
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: been getting in there, like in their diet generally.

627
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: Douch, No, you're insane. You're insane, Josh. One hundred million

628
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: people didn't just download this app in three days because

629
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: of their social media fatigue about account love the slop

630
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 2: that's coming out. Okay, but you know that's a that's

631
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 2: a qualified audience. Okay.

632
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: Do you know what I'm saying, Like, you're not. It's

633
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 1: not one hundred million new it's not one hundred million

634
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: new people. It's a hundred million people from Instagram. Okay,

635
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: it's not they're not brand new. They didn't they didn't

636
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,160
Speaker 1: happen by Do you know what I'm saying.

637
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 2: Is that your standard that in order for me to

638
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 2: prove that there is no social media fatigue a hundred

639
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,880
Speaker 2: million people who've never tried social media before in twenty

640
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 2: twenty three after year.

641
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: I'm just saying like, and I'm not trying to agree

642
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: with Elon Musk or anything here, by the way, I'm

643
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 1: saying that, but.

644
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: You interesting ideas about western You have a big He's.

645
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 1: Got some interesting ideas. He's got some very interesting ideas,

646
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: as do his followers. I'm saying that if you have

647
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: an audience of one billion people, which is what I'm

648
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: trying to do, You're like, hey, guys, do you want

649
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,760
Speaker 1: to try this new thing we're doing, and a hundred

650
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: million people do try it, I'm not at impressed as

651
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,560
Speaker 1: if you are, like, here's a new thing that you

652
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: have to sign up for. I think there is a difference.

653
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just saying I believe there's a difference.

654
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: And I think that if you looked at the weight

655
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: of new sign ups to threads versus people who came

656
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: over from Instagram imported their account, it's probably like ninety

657
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: nine percent people from Instagram.

658
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: I mean sure, But also like Meta launches new apps

659
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: all the time and no one ever uses them. I

660
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,480
Speaker 2: mean this is the first hint that they have had

661
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 2: in years.

662
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: No, it's true, But there again, I'm the agree I

663
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: think they've done a masterful move here, and I agree

664
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: that I don't think that like everybody's like fuck social media.

665
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that the one hundred million number

666
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 1: isn't significant because it is super significant. It's insane. I

667
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: do think there is it is a perfect storm. I

668
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: do think that a lot of the people who are

669
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: on Twitter feel like it is degraded in quality. Plus,

670
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: it's very easy if you already are on another social

671
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: network to get onto Threads. Like there's no waiting list,

672
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 1: there's no fucking sign up for a weird It's literally like, hey,

673
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: do you want to check this out? And like you

674
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: hit a button and then you're on Threads. It literally

675
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: imports your bio and your photo and everything, right, So

676
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 1: it's like very plug and play in that sense. So

677
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: I think it's the test of time is what I'm

678
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: sort of more talking about with Threads, like will it

679
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: become a thriving, enjoyable social media experience, Like I think

680
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: we can all argue for the most part that Instagram

681
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 1: has has found a way to become for the most part,

682
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: an enjoyable social media experience, even in the face of

683
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: all this bullshit. TikTok clearly an enjoyable social media experience,

684
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 1: even in the face of all this bullshit, there's not

685
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: a lot Snapchat, I guess still has an audience. Twitter

686
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: is fucking now. Twitter's on its way out one way

687
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 1: or another. I think it's not going to come back.

688
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: I don't think it comes back. But does Threads become

689
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: does it actually become like a new Twitter?

690
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I've written in the past about this

691
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,239
Speaker 2: idea of like pop up social networks, which are kind

692
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 2: of like pop up restaurants in your neighborhood, where basically

693
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: they're serving the same ingredients you've had at other places,

694
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 2: but because it's new and it's shiny, the food flock

695
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: there and they rave about it on Yelp, and for

696
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 2: like ten minutes, it seems like the biggest deal in

697
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: the world. But then eventually everyone goes back to the

698
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 2: restaurants that they used to hear at, and that was

699
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: a case of like and l and mastedon. Yes, exactly,

700
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 2: you know. So, But here's the thing, Like, I don't

701
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 2: think Threads is the crow neut because it already has

702
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: this critical mass of users who actually wanted to succeed.

703
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: Right Like when peeter Elo came along, we already had

704
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 2: working social networks. There wasn't this hunger for a replacement

705
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 2: for any of them, and so they kind of faded away.

706
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 2: Twitter is in a literal dust spiral. You can only

707
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 2: look at it like fifteen minutes a day before it explodes.

708
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: Who knows that the Apple will even load when you

709
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: tap it on your phone. So we are just in

710
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 2: a different world than we were in when those other

711
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: networks launch. It's it's always risky to make a bet

712
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 2: about what's going to happen to a social network on

713
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,600
Speaker 2: day four, But like, is there a chance that this

714
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 2: thing has the juice? Yes, there is a chance.

715
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: For the first time ever, I want something that Facebook

716
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: is doing to succeed, Like I'm actually liked. No, man,

717
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: let's do it because it's it is God, I almost

718
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: said tweeted again, what are we saying threaded? Is that

719
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: what we're saying threatened? I don't think that works. That

720
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: doesn't fit.

721
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 2: I posted.

722
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: I don't think that's good. I don't think that's what

723
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: Masari wants. I don't think he likes that I think

724
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 1: he's going to remove that. That's gonna be an instant removal.

725
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: I threaded or posted a where the fuck I did.

726
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: I was like, this is a real the enemy of

727
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: my enemy is my friend situation, And I really do

728
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: feel strongly. It's like such a strange sensation to be like,

729
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: I want this to work pretty badly, Like I like

730
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 1: Twitter when it was good, Like there were parts of

731
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 1: Twitter actually before the Nazis really went. I mean, they

732
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: were always kind of going wild on Twitter, but they

733
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: there was a period like you know, during the Trump era,

734
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: at the beginning of Trump, it really got fucking bad

735
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: on Twitter, like it was unfun. And I would say,

736
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: since then, it's been pretty unfun. Yeah, but before that,

737
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,240
Speaker 1: it was like a lot of fun, Like you could

738
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: have a lot of fun on Twitter, and there's still

739
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: pockets of it, Like I definitely want a place where

740
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: like people are gonna make stupid, weird Internet jokes, Like

741
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 1: I would say, the thing I miss most about looking

742
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: at Twitter is people making fucking weird like drill shit.

743
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: That's just you honestly can't make the joke in any

744
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: other way. It's just that particular forum, you know. Yeah,

745
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: so I wanted to win, but like, also I hate

746
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 1: myself because I know it means Mark Zuckerberg is gets

747
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: more of my data and more of my time.

748
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 2: To me. This is like a there's like a two

749
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: part equation. Okay, Like the first part of the equation

750
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 2: is Twitter needs to die, like it just needs to

751
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: completely disappear from like polite society. And that's step one.

752
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: Step two is we will bring all of the criticism

753
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 2: and all of the scrutiny to threads that we had

754
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: previously been bringing into threads on all the other social

755
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 2: net works. Like I truly believe there will be time.

756
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 2: I also think that MATTA has learned a lot of

757
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: lessons from its previous five or six years of disasters,

758
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 2: and so hopefully they'll be able to mitigate some of

759
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 2: those problems. But like it's a let's just get the

760
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 2: order of operations straight. Job one is to kill Twitter, right, yes,

761
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 2: and I think pretty good jobs so far, amazing job.

762
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 2: But like obviously from an audience size, and I was

763
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: gonna say, Zuckerberg posted this thing about how they haven't

764
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: even done any like promotions yet, which I think is

765
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: an interesting It's kind of like he's saying, like, you know,

766
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,320
Speaker 2: we need one hundred million just by turning it on.

767
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: What would happen if we actually told other people about it, Like,

768
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,280
Speaker 2: you know, I think that's what happened.

769
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, what would happen if we tried? Yeah, so what

770
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: will happen? I think if they can get to the

771
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: if they can get the rest of the Twitter people.

772
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: But can you have a Twitter competitor or killer without

773
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 1: the Nazis? I guess that's the ultimate question.

774
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, Instagram's community guidelines are actually

775
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 2: much more restrictive than Twitter. So you know, as you've

776
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 2: probably been wondering why you're not able to post whole

777
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 2: on thought and the reason keeps getting keeps getting bounced,

778
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,840
Speaker 2: keeps getting flagged. Yeah yeah, well the reason is, you know,

779
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 2: you can't post nudity on Instagram and so you can't

780
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 2: post it on threads. So I mean, look, they make

781
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 2: decisions I disagree with. They gave Rfki Junior his account

782
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 2: back just because he ran for president. So I'm sure

783
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 2: there's gonna be problematic actors on there, but you know,

784
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 2: it's it's gonna be much better, I think, than it

785
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 2: was on Twitter.

786
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,360
Speaker 1: So it's funny because I on on Blue Sky, I

787
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 1: posted something about like we were there's some conversation going

788
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,919
Speaker 1: on about moderation, right, and it was like the Blue

789
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: Sky people have been very like, weirdly cagy. They're good,

790
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: I mean, they want to moderate the bad shit out

791
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: of there, but they've been kind of cagy and careful

792
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: about how they talk about it. And I'm like, I

793
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 1: was like, I don't understand. Like Instagram, which people fucking love,

794
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: is like one of the craziest moderation situations I've ever experienced.

795
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: Like you can literally like get your shit taken off

796
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 1: of Instagram for like saying like putting the word dead

797
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 1: in a post or something like it is. I mean

798
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: I don't even mean in text, I mean like in

799
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: an image, like if the word People like are crossing

800
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: out words like in their posts because they don't want

801
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: to get like dinged and have their shit pulled down.

802
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 2: And yet weirdly, it's a very enjoyable experience. Like I

803
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 2: look at.

804
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: Instagram all the time, and I know, like, well, home,

805
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: I can't see nud to you or how come I

806
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,479
Speaker 1: you know, can't hear people talking about like killing people

807
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm like, Wow, this sucks my two favorite

808
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 1: things nudity and murder threats.

809
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 2: You know.

810
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 1: Of course I don't follow a lot of political accounts

811
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: on there. I fall some meme accounts, but like, yeah,

812
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: it's fucking enjoyable, and it's like, maybe discourse doesn't have

813
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 1: to be like this free speech shit is overrated basically.

814
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 2: Right, Well, that's basically what they've said is, you know,

815
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 2: because all the journalists are sort of like, yay, a

816
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 2: place to post our links and do journalism. And Adamisaria

817
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: did this sort of widely uh discussed post where he said,

818
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: we know there's gonna be journalism on here, but we're

819
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 2: doing nothing to encourage it. We do not want to

820
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: be like the throbbing heartbeat of the daily news cycle.

821
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 2: And honestly, I think that that is mostly just marketing, right,

822
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 2: because they have no control over what people are posting,

823
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,839
Speaker 2: and people want to share news there. People are going

824
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: to share news there, right. But I do think it

825
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: speaks to the fact that they like the fact that

826
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:10,280
Speaker 2: news has become a much smaller part of their products

827
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: over time, and they hope that continues.

828
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: You know. I mean, I think what he was saying

829
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: in some way was more like a signal to like

830
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: the market than than anything else. It's like, yeah, I don't,

831
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 1: I don't see. Maybe I'm wrong, Maybe they do this already.

832
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: I don't know how much Meta is suppressing like news

833
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:28,759
Speaker 1: content or I don't know, are they down are they?

834
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: Do you think they would go so far as to

835
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 1: downrank journalists or to like suppress news links that are

836
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:36,280
Speaker 1: being widely shared?

837
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so. One thing that they will absolutely

838
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: just have to decide is what kind of weight are

839
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 2: they going to give to links as they are shared? Right,

840
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 2: some some networks are sort of treat those as neutral,

841
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 2: and other networks say like no, like we want you

842
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: to stay on the site, and so if it includes

843
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 2: a link, we're going to show it less. So that

844
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: is something that they could do. You know, it may

845
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,479
Speaker 2: be that this winds up not being a great place

846
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: to share news. But you know, again us the news,

847
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: because I'm so far zero on that. I've been this

848
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: whole NonStop pole posted just getting rejected. But yeah, I'm

849
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 2: talking about the news, you know. But again, if I

850
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 2: think that even though they say they don't want it

851
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 2: to replace Twitter's function as kind of the like the

852
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 2: newsroom of the world, I think if it became the

853
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: newsroom of the world. They would find a way to

854
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 2: get excited about it, because at the end of the day,

855
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 2: they want what everyone else wants, which is status and money,

856
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 2: And if they can get status and money from being

857
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 2: the world's newsroom, they will be the world's newsroom. Right.

858
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think it seems to be trending,

859
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 1: at least in the direction that it has the same

860
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,359
Speaker 1: basic functionality as Twitter. If you are a person who

861
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: does news, like you can go on here and like

862
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: post a news link and it doesn't like as far

863
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: as I know, it's not like knocking them down a

864
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,000
Speaker 1: peg or something, and it seems like they're just links, right.

865
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: I hear that there are like right wing people on it.

866
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: I have not seen any really. I went to ban

867
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: or sorry not banned, to block some people who I

868
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: did not definitely not want to see who are on it,

869
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 1: like George Santos for instance, who I just I don't

870
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: need to hear anything from him whatsoever.

871
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: Oh, really, you don't like a gay elected officials, Josh?

872
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 2: I Uh, what I hate most is his gayness.

873
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: No.

874
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: I I love that he's gay. I hate everything else.

875
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: I'm a big, big on his a big fan of

876
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: his being gay just not a fan of all the

877
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 1: other stuff. He was simply just gay, that would be great,

878
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: But he's so much more complex than that. And I

879
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 1: think that's true of many in the community. Honestly, when

880
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,760
Speaker 1: you when you think about that, it's it's a divers

881
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: and complex community of people who are you know, some

882
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: people are gay, some people are gay, and a bunch

883
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: of other stuff like George Santos. No, but like but yeah,

884
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: but like is it do you get a sense that

885
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: like the truth social folks or the Twitter people are

886
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 1: like flying over to like occupy their space or are

887
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: they like, hey, soon we can have all of Twitter,

888
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: which they don't realize how it will actually be.

889
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, well, the best was that some of

890
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 2: Elon's minions, like the people who were falling all over

891
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 2: themselves to suck up to Elon when he took over Twitter.

892
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: There was kind of this question of how long will

893
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: they be able to resist joining threads because it's clear

894
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 2: that that's where the action is going to be. Yeah,

895
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: and number one on that list was Jason Kalakano. Yeah,

896
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 2: advisor to Elon, and Jason didn't even make it forty

897
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 2: eight hours before he joined Threads to you know, take

898
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 2: some patcha yeah.

899
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: So to make fun of Zuckerberg, but like you're here,

900
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: You're here, you showed up.

901
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah. So it's like even the people that

902
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 2: are like Elon is, you know, he's mister business genius

903
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 2: and he's gonna prove you all wrong. Even those people

904
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 2: are ready to abandon ship. You know.

905
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: I'm loving I mean, I am loving that shit. I

906
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 1: have to say from a from a crow eating perspective,

907
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: it is a very very delicious meal to witness. All right,

908
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: so we really quickly, we gotta we do have to

909
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 1: wrap up. Although I am enjoying, I gotta say, Casey,

910
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: it is. It is so fun to talk to you.

911
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: It is just like you just a giggle f I

912
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:00,840
Speaker 1: love talking to you.

913
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 2: It's a good it is. Give me a.

914
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 1: Prediction, lay it out. Where do you see this all headed?

915
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: Give me give me the year ahead for Threads and Twitter.

916
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 2: So I predict that at this time next year, Threads

917
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: will be the biggest text based social network, and I

918
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: think it will have largely supplanted the role that Twitter

919
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 2: plays in the news ecosystem today. So that is my

920
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: actual approsse.

921
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: Okay, you stand, you'll stand by you feeling good, you

922
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: feeling good about that, you can stand by that prediction.

923
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 2: I think it just all the ingredients are in place

924
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 2: and all of the right people want it to app.

925
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 2: It would be one thing if only Meta wanted this,

926
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: Like what Meta wants actually matters the least. What matters

927
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 2: is that the user base want the fact that like

928
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 2: you a person, you know, you've been very critical of Facebook.

929
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: I've been very critical of Facebook. I talked to other reporters.

930
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 2: They're all saying the same thing, which is, thank god

931
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 2: this thing is here. Yeah, those people who are who

932
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 2: are the most likely to have said screw this whole thing,

933
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 2: are all in. I think it wins.

934
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 1: It is very deranged. It is a little bit of

935
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,359
Speaker 1: a so so, okay, where is Twitter In a year

936
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 1: from now.

937
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 2: Twitter is going to be like, here's the thing. The

938
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 2: app will still exist. I think I'm not sure that

939
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 2: I would confidently predict this, but I think there's a

940
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: very good chance that it is bankrupt. And I think

941
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 2: that a year from now Elon Musk is seriously exploring

942
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,439
Speaker 2: how to unwind his ownership of the app.

943
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that checks out for sure. Yeah, I

944
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 1: mean this all sounds right. To me, I have very

945
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 1: little to disagree with. I feel like I don't know,

946
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: I would be more sad. I guess, like, here's the thing.

947
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 1: A part of me is just like realizes that recognizes

948
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,240
Speaker 1: that if we want to use a social media platform

949
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: of some type, it's not I mean, I understand the

950
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: whole like fetaverse and the masset On thing, and that's cool.

951
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: Like if they can make it work, well I'm totally

952
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 1: into it and I'll keep posting there or whatever. But

953
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: like I think we all acknowledge like whether it's Jack

954
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: Dorsey or Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg, like one of

955
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: these people that we probably wouldn't love to hang out

956
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: with in person, wouldn't make you know, wouldn't make a

957
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 1: best friend, and have nefarious, kind of shitty reasons for

958
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: doing the business they do, are going to run the

959
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: social network, whatever one it is, it's going to be

960
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: some person like that. So I feel like, you know,

961
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like, yeah, do I care if in

962
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: this case, like I clearly don't care in the case

963
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: of Instagram, Do I care in this case if like

964
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: it's owned by Mark Zuckerberg versus Ela Muskin, Like, but we.

965
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,359
Speaker 2: Haven't even talked about the fact that it's decentralized, which

966
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 2: is the actual answer that, well, like, you're going to

967
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,279
Speaker 2: be able to set up your own server and you're

968
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: going to be able to have your posts appear on

969
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 2: threads even though Meta doesn't operate it.

970
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 1: They say that. They say that, and I think there's

971
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,520
Speaker 1: a common belief that they are doing that partially because

972
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 1: if they basically make it a part of the fetiverse,

973
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,959
Speaker 1: right is what would happen. They can basically get away

974
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 1: with doing whatever moderation they want. They say, Hey, no,

975
00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: you can the post here, you can set up your

976
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:00,439
Speaker 1: own server and your own rules and bob blah blah,

977
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:02,360
Speaker 1: and then they don't have to worry about being the

978
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: arbiters of free speech or whatever on their own rock.

979
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,399
Speaker 1: Which is a good answer to that problem, by the way,

980
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: it's a great answer, and it's it's the one we're

981
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: all looking for.

982
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:10,720
Speaker 2: I think.

983
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: I also feel like, I don't know, it's a little

984
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,800
Speaker 1: bit like if nobody cares that much about the moderation,

985
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: which I feel like it's possible, like maybe nobody really

986
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: at this point will care that much. People care, like

987
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 1: you don't hear the right wing people being like Instagram

988
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 1: suppressing my I mean, Donald Trump Junior, I think did ye.

989
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 2: But I read about content moderation all the time. This

990
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 2: is such a perfect all time case study because people

991
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 2: are leaving Twitter because it did not have content moderation.

992
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: Like the failure of content moderation on Twitter created the

993
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: opportunity for threads. You got one hundred million US.

994
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, the idea that whatever, well, first off,

995
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: I mean, it wasn't a free speech utopia. It was

996
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 1: the speech that Elon Musk likes best, which is like weird,

997
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: weirdly anti semitic and racist and like really.

998
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 2: Bad transphobic a lot of things.

999
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, super transphobic, like just fucking weird bad, Like

1000
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: you could just not say shit, you know, if you're

1001
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: if I were the richest man in the world, if

1002
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: I if which I think he is now currently, I

1003
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: would simply not post my personal feelings about things on

1004
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: the Internet. I would just keep them to myself because

1005
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: I could just change those things. I could just literally

1006
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: buy the thing and get rid of it if I

1007
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: didn't like it. This is what we all think, but

1008
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: all the billionaires do wind up posting.

1009
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 2: I think it's one of the only ways they can

1010
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,919
Speaker 2: feel like Jos supposed to become a certain reson.

1011
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: You saw the what do you drink for a hangover?

1012
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: Or what do you eat after a hangover? Asking for

1013
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: a friend or whatever. I'm sorry, dude, I'm you gotta

1014
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:39,719
Speaker 1: get another fucking hobby. Like you do not need to

1015
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 1: be on social media. You're Jeff Bezos, like buy a country,

1016
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 1: like I don't know, like find something fun to do

1017
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: this chrassty you know what?

1018
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 2: You know how that one episode of House of the Dragon,

1019
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: the like princesses like put on disguises and go mingle

1020
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 2: with the comedy folk like that, That's what Jeff Bezos

1021
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 2: was also kind of the plot of a lad and

1022
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 2: I now realize and it was also famous the plot

1023
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 2: of Aladdin. Yeah, I hope that the creators of House

1024
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: of Dragon answer for that anymore youth. Yes, seriously, they

1025
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,439
Speaker 2: need to be brought to justice, you think.

1026
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: Sorry, just to be clear, you think they like it

1027
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: because they get to mingle with the commoners.

1028
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying? They want to feel somethdate,

1029
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 2: what's your a certain level of rich? You cannot feel

1030
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 2: anything anymore. There are no comps.

1031
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 1: You could do whatever you want. There are no consequence

1032
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: to pay to feel something. They can get someone to

1033
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: make them feel. So I don't know, Man, that's interesting.

1034
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: No, they want that little hit. It's it's the adrenaline

1035
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 2: rush them. I'm gonna go step out of the public

1036
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,439
Speaker 2: square and maybe they're gonna throw egsit me, but maybe

1037
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 2: they'll think I'm really yes.

1038
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: So man, it'd be so cool if they had something

1039
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,359
Speaker 1: interesting to say. Imaginef they stepped out of the public

1040
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: square and said cool shit. Like it's kind of hard

1041
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: to imagine, right, Like like what like, man, the Ramones

1042
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: were great in nineteen seventy eight.

1043
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know.

1044
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: I don't know because I guess I'm not them, but

1045
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: I would definitely say something like other than the trans

1046
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 1: people shouldn't exist or whatever the thing they came up with,

1047
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: like or should I drink? What should I eat after

1048
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:03,879
Speaker 1: a hang for a hangover? Like I'm sorry, Like it's

1049
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: got to be some other thing to say. Yeah, anyhow,

1050
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: all right, I think we got to wrap up here.

1051
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,879
Speaker 1: I think we've devolved into I don't know, I don't

1052
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:11,799
Speaker 1: know what we've devolved into.

1053
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 2: Casey.

1054
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,439
Speaker 1: As always, this has been absolutely delightful, so fun and educational. Yeah,

1055
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I got a lot of information,

1056
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 1: but it was presented in a way that was digestible

1057
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: and enjoyable. And I think like, that's one of your talents.

1058
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: You can just put you put it out there. But

1059
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: people are like, that's great.

1060
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 2: I get it. I understand it. Casey made it. Casey

1061
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 2: made me understand I love it. I love what I do.

1062
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 2: It's you're the best. You'll have to come back.

1063
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: Again in a year. Now, you're gonna come back soon

1064
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 1: to the in a year, but for sure we should

1065
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,280
Speaker 1: mark this date down. We're going to do it, revisit

1066
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: this in one year, and we can get to see

1067
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: how close you were on your predictions, which I think

1068
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: will be ah, really exciting. I love it. Let's find out,

1069
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: all right, And then in the meantime, follow a Casey

1070
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: on threads. He's at Crumbler. Crumbler isn't Crumbler. It's not great,

1071
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 1: It's not great. I really should have just gotten my

1072
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:02,759
Speaker 1: full name.

1073
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 2: Is it Sea Rumbler? Is that it's Crumbler. It's Sea Rumbler. Yeah,

1074
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 2: I wanted to use their name. That Ryan was Tumblr,

1075
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 2: which was very hot in twenty ten when Instagram launched

1076
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 2: so and you can also follow me. I'm just Joshua

1077
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 2: Zapolski because I just decided at one point I was

1078
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: gonna use my full giant, horrible name every on every

1079
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 2: social network, which was ultimately genius Day. But no, no,

1080
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: it is what it is.

1081
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: And anyway, check us out on threads. We're dropping some

1082
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:29,600
Speaker 1: sick posts on there, both of us. I mean, just

1083
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: incredible content.

1084
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell us which way you put put the milk

1085
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:33,920
Speaker 2: in here?

1086
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're like, I just dropped a big bod. It's

1087
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: is a hot dog of sandwich. It's getting a lot

1088
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: of get a lot of heat right now.

1089
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 2: It got a lot of I think. Fuck.

1090
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: Jerry actually just stole it and posted it on their thread,

1091
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: so it's it's really heating up out there.

1092
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you so much. This is super fun. You

1093
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 2: got to come back and do it again. Yeah, I

1094
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: have you anytime.

1095
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: Well, I think we've learned a lot here. I think

1096
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: we've learned a lot on the show. I think what

1097
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,480
Speaker 1: we now know is that if Casey and I podcasts together,

1098
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:14,800
Speaker 1: we will giggle like little children for most of it.

1099
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: And I'm assuming annoying the listener tremendously, but also I

1100
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: think we've solved the riddle of social media, and that's

1101
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 1: a you know, that's huge for us. I think we

1102
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: have personally made some great strides in helping humanity move

1103
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: towards it's the next stage of evolution, where we will

1104
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 1: all become glowing orbs of pure thought and communicate by telepathy,

1105
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:40,399
Speaker 1: or we'll just all be using threads, you know, which

1106
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: is almost the same thing.

1107
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 2: Well, that is our show for this week.

1108
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 1: We will be back next week with more what future,

1109
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 1: and as always, I wish you and your family the

1110
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 1: very best.