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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and welcome to stuff will never

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Speaker 1: told you production by hearty you, and yes I am

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Speaker 1: by myself today. Samantha's got some stuff going on, but

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Speaker 1: I did want to bring back this one because it

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Speaker 1: has become such a huge topic of conversation lately, and

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Speaker 1: it is a Monday. Many we did around being childless

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Speaker 1: by choice. So we are in a very very intense

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Speaker 1: contentious election season right now in the US. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to stay calm about it, but one of the huge

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Speaker 1: talking points has been an old quote that was circulated

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Speaker 1: from JD Vance, vice president nominee for the Republican Party,

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Speaker 1: JdE Vance, around childless cat ladies. Essentially, I guess ruling

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Speaker 1: the US somehow. And it of course has spurned all

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Speaker 1: of these shirts that are very like proudly declaring childless

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Speaker 1: cat lady or what have you, even if you don't

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Speaker 1: have cats. Have a friend who has one. She doesn't

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Speaker 1: have children, but she does have cats, and she's wearing

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Speaker 1: it around her very conservative parents. But it has really

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Speaker 1: started this conversation of some people breaking down what he

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Speaker 1: actually meant and what that would look like, which, by

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Speaker 1: the way, would not work out how he thinks it.

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Speaker 1: Would work out. Of course, I guess that's probably obvious,

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Speaker 1: but also just a lot of the assumptions assertions that

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Speaker 1: he made about happiness, which we have talked about before.

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Speaker 1: And yes, that the birth rate continues to decline even

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Speaker 1: since we did this in the United States, not just

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Speaker 1: the United States, but in this particular case the United States,

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Speaker 1: and why that is, and there are so many reasons

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Speaker 1: why that is. We should honestly come back and do

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Speaker 1: a whole revisit on this one. But in the meantime,

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Speaker 1: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Adie and Samantha,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Steffan never told your production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: All right, any let's get personal.

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Speaker 3: You ready always always at what point, because you and

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Speaker 3: I have talked about this quite a bit, Yes, did

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Speaker 3: you decide that you probably don't want kids.

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Speaker 1: I was someone who was really into the idea of

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Speaker 1: kids for a while, and I had like names picked out,

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Speaker 1: which was very selfish of me for any future partner,

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Speaker 1: but I was like, these are the names for.

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Speaker 2: My three children that I'm going to have.

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Speaker 1: And then I think when I got to college, I

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Speaker 1: started being like, probably delay it because I thought I

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Speaker 1: was gonna this was all gonna happen like right after

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Speaker 1: college or something. I was like, no, I want to

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Speaker 1: travel and whatever. And then as I got older and

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Speaker 1: I did travel and I did start looking inwards. I

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Speaker 1: won't say that it was a necessarily a healthy decision,

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Speaker 1: because at first it was very fear based, where I

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Speaker 1: was like, I can't I don't think i'd be good

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Speaker 1: at raising children, and so it was more of a

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Speaker 1: I absorbed all that messaging about being the perfect mom,

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Speaker 1: I think, and like, you're going to screw up these

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Speaker 1: children forever, but no matter what you do. So I

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Speaker 1: had that on my brain. I'm like, okay, so I

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Speaker 1: don't want to do that to a child. And then

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Speaker 1: when I started dating and I was in one of

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Speaker 1: my first long term relationships, that's when I realized. I

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Speaker 1: guess it was also kind of fear based, but I

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Speaker 1: was afraid that if I had children. While I would

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Speaker 1: be someone you would really push for like equal spreading responsibilities,

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Speaker 1: I think I would also cave. And that's just like

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Speaker 1: an acknowledgment of who I am and how I've been raised.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, it's a child, and I want to

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Speaker 1: take care of them and I want to make them happy.

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Speaker 1: And I think that I would pick up more and

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Speaker 1: more slack and I would go more and more resentful. Right,

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Speaker 1: So it was almost like an anti patriarchy thing where

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Speaker 1: I'm like, as long as the system is this way

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Speaker 1: and I am this way, then I don't think that

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Speaker 1: I want children. So I was probably about twenty eight

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Speaker 1: when I had that realization.

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Speaker 3: You're fairly young in this process, not according to our eggs,

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Speaker 3: but in our timeline, I guess, and yeah, today for

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Speaker 3: our Monday, MANI this is a question that has been

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Speaker 3: weighing pretty heavily on me, specifically, coming at forty, looking

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Speaker 3: at future prospects, being in one of my longest relationships

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Speaker 3: ever is kind of one of those moments of like, okay,

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Speaker 3: you really have to have you need to make up

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Speaker 3: your mind and think about what all of this looks

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Speaker 3: like for your future and all this in our respect

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Speaker 3: to yeah, the country, ourselves, our families, whatever it may be.

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Speaker 3: And for me it's been a whole internal back and

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Speaker 3: forth conversations about whether or not I wanted to be

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Speaker 3: a parent, and if I were to be a parent,

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Speaker 3: would I be a good parent, and if I actually

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Speaker 3: could be a good parent overall, and whether it would

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Speaker 3: be something that having because is even possible for me?

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Speaker 2: I know, growing up at a younger.

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Speaker 3: Age, I was severely abused and there was a lot

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Speaker 3: of questions for me and I don't have any health

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Speaker 3: issues that I know of. I definitely have had a

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Speaker 3: few assists as well as when I would go back

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Speaker 3: and have to have tests and make sure everything was okay,

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Speaker 3: HPV tests, all of that, you know, and that's not

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Speaker 3: uncommon for a lot of women in general, And so

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Speaker 3: it was kind of like, Okay, I don't even know

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Speaker 3: if this is possible for me.

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Speaker 2: Could I actually appro create for real? For real?

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Speaker 3: And for me even being a part of the dating

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Speaker 3: world forever, I feel like it's been forever. But to

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Speaker 3: be honest, I didn't actually start dating until I was

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Speaker 3: about like twenty one to twenty two. I'd had a

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Speaker 3: few dates right every now and again, but I was

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Speaker 3: just pretty much like, Nope, can't date, can't date. I

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Speaker 3: am not worthy of dating. I've been too traumatized for dating.

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Speaker 3: So I didn't really start dating until mid twenties. And

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Speaker 3: as of the last ten years of dating, I've made

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Speaker 3: sure had to have conversations if anybody comes into any

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Speaker 3: kind of seriousness, and even more so in the last

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Speaker 3: five years when I've had any relationship at all, that's

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Speaker 3: been a key point of be like, hey, I know

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Speaker 3: we're just getting to know each other, but do you

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Speaker 3: want children?

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Speaker 2: Because I don't know if I do.

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Speaker 3: And I think I've seen so many relationships and marriages

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Speaker 3: fall apart because it's not something they have discussed or

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Speaker 3: taken seriously. Like I've seen so many couples who will

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Speaker 3: be like, ah, they'll change their mind, they don't, and

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Speaker 3: then that kind of comes apart when they're like, wait,

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Speaker 3: are you serious, you really don't want to have kids,

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Speaker 3: and they're like, no, I really don't.

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Speaker 2: The conversation of adoption.

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Speaker 3: For me, I've always said I would most likely adopt

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Speaker 3: over having my own child. Then again, of course I'm

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Speaker 3: seeing these issues of adoptions in general, like kind of

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Speaker 3: the sad you know, implications for that child in general,

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Speaker 3: what is happening, who is being adopted, who's not being adopted,

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Speaker 3: who's being sold, who's being taken from families? Like, that's

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Speaker 3: a whole big other conversation to that. So that's kind

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Speaker 3: of changed my views on that as well. And so

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Speaker 3: that's again that's one of my first things is like,

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Speaker 3: all right, you're sure because I promise you right now

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Speaker 3: definitely not want to have kids. And I don't know

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Speaker 3: if I'll ever change my mind, but you need to

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Speaker 3: know not now I might not, so don't want you

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Speaker 3: to be discouraged again. I still go back and forth

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Speaker 3: on all of it, And, like I said, one of

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Speaker 3: the biggest reasons that I've been really thinking about it

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Speaker 3: and trying to process, like am I going to regret

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Speaker 3: not having children? And since quote high risk and gerry

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Speaker 3: atric pregnancies are considered for women who are over thirty five,

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Speaker 3: I was just like, what what then? Because there is

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Speaker 3: this whole idea of the expiration date for us, for

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Speaker 3: most people with uteruses, and I have to ask why

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Speaker 3: is nature got to be so agis right?

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Speaker 2: I mean why why?

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Speaker 3: Of course, and sexist too because of men like yeah,

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Speaker 3: we cann have babies all the top anytimes. Of course,

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Speaker 3: there are other avenues and I'm not necessarily opposed to

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Speaker 3: any of that, but of course there's also this bit

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Speaker 3: of internal misogyny of seeing my worth and being able

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Speaker 3: to actually birth a baby, a human And according to

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Speaker 3: my high school best friend's grandmother, when I showed up,

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Speaker 3: show off our prom dresses. I have really good berthing hips,

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Speaker 3: so I feel like I'm.

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Speaker 2: Wasting some things. You know what I'm saying. It's and

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Speaker 2: again it's not.

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Speaker 3: Just me and I know this, And there's so many articles.

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Speaker 3: The term voluntary childlessness has been around since the seventies

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Speaker 3: and just in case you were wondering of the term childlessness,

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Speaker 3: and voluntary childlessness is the accomplishing the goal of remaining

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Speaker 3: child free, whether through process of going through surgery to

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Speaker 3: prevent having a child, whether having an IUD, plug.

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Speaker 2: You up, thank you very much, IUDs.

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Speaker 3: And the factors are vast and they could include age, income,

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Speaker 3: marriage or unmarried status, and higher education. And there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of conversations on.

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Speaker 2: Why or who or when.

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Speaker 3: For the lack of like all of the questions of

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Speaker 3: why someone may choose and as in fact, there have been,

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Speaker 3: like I said, a lot of articles giving advice off

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Speaker 3: ads about people deciding and why they decided to not

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Speaker 3: have children. And then, as in fact, one study in

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Speaker 3: conducted in twenty eighteen, some of the reasons that they

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Speaker 3: talked about that we will continue to talk about of

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Speaker 3: nearly two thousand people that were surveyed from ages twenty

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Speaker 3: to forty five. Thirty six percent of survey responders said

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Speaker 3: they didn't want children and we're not sure about becoming

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Speaker 3: parents because they.

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Speaker 2: Wanted more leisure time.

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Speaker 3: And I think the pandemic has been a bright spotlight

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Speaker 3: on and obvious to who has children and who doesn't

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Speaker 3: like it's it's very like, oh, the struggles are here

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Speaker 3: and here and here, and the things that have been

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Speaker 3: elevated to that conversation. Thirty four percent said they haven't

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Speaker 3: found a partner to raise children with, and then thirty

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Speaker 3: one percent talked about the fact that they cannot afford childcare.

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Speaker 3: So there's definitely a lot of reasons why we might

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Speaker 3: not be wanting.

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Speaker 2: Children right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's one of the things that makes me

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Speaker 1: really angry when and this happens in any generation. I

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Speaker 1: am not saying that it's just millennials getting attacked, but

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Speaker 1: when people are like millennials are having children, they're so selfish, ry,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, we can't afford it, right, We're thinking

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Speaker 1: about the child that we're like, well, we can't afford

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Speaker 1: to raise a kid, and there's a lot of reasons

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Speaker 1: why that is.

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Speaker 2: Right. Until we fix those.

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Speaker 1: Things, then yeah, and that was something I definitely took

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Speaker 1: into account too, of like the stress of financially providing

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Speaker 1: for a child. And the CDC has just reported as

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty that the US birth and fertility rates

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Speaker 1: have made a record breaking low since nineteen seventy nine.

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Speaker 1: It's been declining for the last six years, and as

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Speaker 1: of twenty twenty, the decline of the birth rate doubled

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Speaker 1: from the year before. And here are some specific stats

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Speaker 1: according to the survey. Directly from the report, teen birth

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Speaker 1: rates drop considerably, with birth to fifteen to seventeen year

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Speaker 1: olds falling by six percent and to eighteen and nineteen

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Speaker 1: year olds falling by seven percent, both hitting record blows.

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Speaker 1: Birth rates among women ages twenty to twenty four and

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Speaker 1: twenty five to twenty nine by six percent and four percent, respectively,

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Speaker 1: both to record lows. Birth Rates fell by four percent

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Speaker 1: and two percent respectively among women in ages thirty to

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Speaker 1: thirty four and thirty five to thirty nine, but did

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Speaker 1: not reach record lows according to CDC data.

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Speaker 3: Right, And so some of this bigger conversation about why

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Speaker 3: aren't teens having more babies or having less babies? Maybe

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Speaker 3: they have access to birth control now and maybe they

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Speaker 3: have access to abortion, if need be, better sex education,

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Speaker 3: maybe more openness.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: If social media has helped a little bit. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: because now you can find a lot more information online

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Speaker 3: as where when I was a kid, maybe not right,

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Speaker 3: you know, well, and I.

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Speaker 2: Was like fifteen fourteen, fifteen years old.

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Speaker 3: We had the internet, but we didn't go there often

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Speaker 3: and we shared it with our parents and therefore we

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Speaker 3: definitely didn't look at it. Didn't really have any access

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Speaker 3: to cell phones because you know, we had car phones.

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Speaker 3: Then our girlfriend had a car phone. And I'm talking

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Speaker 3: about that giant bag. Yeah, people carried out plugged into

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Speaker 3: the cigarette lighter.

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Speaker 2: That's still my favorite thing.

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Speaker 3: We had those, but it wasn't little computers essentially in

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Speaker 3: our hands. So that says a lot. And I'm really

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Speaker 3: sad that people are trying to go backwards.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Birth rates from women ages forty to forty four my

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Speaker 3: age range, fell by two percent from twenty nineteen, but

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Speaker 3: birth rates for women forty five and up remain unchanged.

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Speaker 3: And again it maybe partially because it's harder to get pregnted,

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Speaker 3: less po likely to get pregnant at that time.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: And also the number of births declined three percent for

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Speaker 3: Hispanic women and four percent for white and black women

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Speaker 3: from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty. Again, these are directly

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Speaker 3: from the report by the CDC.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, things are changing. Things have changed, yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: And there are many reasons for the decline.

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Speaker 1: Some speculate that it's due to the pandemic, though not

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Speaker 1: much data has been collected to support that. Other experts

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Speaker 1: say that it's the lack of vital resources like housing

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Speaker 1: and food among those demographics with correlations between their rise

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Speaker 1: and unemployment rates and the decline in birth rates. I

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Speaker 1: will say recently there's been another survey and I haven't

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Speaker 1: looked into it enough to like judge how authentic or

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Speaker 1: scientifically accurate it is, but that millennials are having less sex.

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Speaker 1: And I have a friend who said, until like I

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Speaker 1: can access abortion easily, the gates are closed. Like, So

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Speaker 1: I do think that's a part of it too, is

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Speaker 1: as we're seeing this rolling back or real pushback against abortion,

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Speaker 1: women are thinking, well, then I guess I won't be

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Speaker 1: engaging my sex.

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Speaker 2: That's just my theory. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of it is also calling out

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Speaker 3: the misogyny and see the nastiness of the power play

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Speaker 3: that's been happening when it comes to toxic masculinity, And

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Speaker 3: I think that has something to do.

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Speaker 2: With it as well. We talked a little bit.

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Speaker 3: About the fact that people weren't meeting up during pandemics.

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Speaker 3: They weren't just coming out anymore and hooking up with

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Speaker 3: people which do what you want, but for the sake

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Speaker 3: of not spreading COVID. So that could have some things

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Speaker 3: to do with it. Of course, when people who are

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Speaker 3: able to be pregnant but it's not to we're asked.

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Speaker 3: Some stated that the mere fact society is not demanding

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Speaker 3: or expecting them to have children as much has kind

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Speaker 3: of taken off some of that pressure to have children.

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Speaker 3: And for me, yeah, my mother has finally stopped asking

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Speaker 3: me about having kids or getting married after seeing how

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Speaker 3: bad marriages can ruin families and can cause so much damage.

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Speaker 3: So what I've definitely seen and we've all seen it,

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Speaker 3: and maybe we've been a part of this family, let's

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Speaker 3: be honest, where they're trying to save a marriage by

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Speaker 3: having a child and ooh, that's not as helpful as

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Speaker 3: you think it is. And it doesn't work typically, and

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Speaker 3: I think it's finally gotten to the point that people

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Speaker 3: are like, eh, figured out.

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Speaker 2: We don't want to be together. I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: try to have a baby to save anything, because it's fine.

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Speaker 2: We're fine.

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Speaker 3: And for those who have gone through these messy divorces

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Speaker 3: with children, which is what I'm talking about, they're like, ah,

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Speaker 3: maybe this was not a great idea, not that they

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Speaker 3: regret having children, but of course there are some reports

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Speaker 3: that they are more like people are more likely to

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Speaker 3: regret having children.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I didn't look too deeply into that. That could be

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Speaker 3: a whole other episode, but having that being a part

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Speaker 3: of that mess, it just is so heartbreaking in general. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I'm sure because we have been children of seeing

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Speaker 3: really ugly divorces as it has become a steady incline

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Speaker 3: at one point in time, I think it's kind of

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Speaker 3: even doubt where it's like fifty to fifty chants, but.

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Speaker 2: We have noticed, Yeah, maybe it's not a bad thing

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Speaker 2: to not have children because things seem less messier, not always.

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Speaker 3: And I think for my mother, who for so long

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Speaker 3: would get into a streaming match with me every Christmas

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Speaker 3: about why I didn't have children, and that I was

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Speaker 3: going to die alone. Yeah, and no one was going

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Speaker 3: to take care of me. Made sure to tell me

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Speaker 3: that and then gave me an example of my spinster

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Speaker 3: great aunt, who she said died alone, which is not

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Speaker 3: true because her brother lived with her as well as.

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Speaker 2: Other family members. So I'm not really sure what she

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Speaker 2: was talking about.

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Speaker 3: But the fact that that has completely washed away after

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Speaker 3: seeing divorces happen within my family, and so that is

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Speaker 3: one of the things, like I agree because of that,

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Speaker 3: I have not had any pressure from anyone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like my dad kind of pushed me

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Speaker 1: for it, as I've talked about. But my mom and I,

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Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks ago, out of a conversation

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Speaker 1: where it was very clear to me that she's not

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Speaker 1: expecting anything, and I was like, this is nice.

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Speaker 2: It's like there's no part of her.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like a judgmental thing or it was just like, Yep,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't seem like the path you're going down, and

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Speaker 1: that's cool, cool, thank you. Okay. Some other reasons for

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Speaker 1: all of this, women are choosing careers in higher education

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Speaker 1: over the high cost of raising children, and though the

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Speaker 1: numbers of women having children in life hasn't changed too

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Speaker 1: much percentage wise, the number of births have decreased by

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Speaker 1: at least five hundred thousand from two thousand and seven

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Speaker 1: to twenty seventeen. Monetarily, it is estimated that raising a

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Speaker 1: child costs about two hundred and thirty three thousand, six

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Speaker 1: hundred and ten dollars. And that's not including college tuition,

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Speaker 1: because yeah, I would have guessed way higher. I calculated

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Speaker 1: this out at one point and I was like a

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Speaker 1: million something, and that's I was very young when I

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Speaker 1: was doing this, and I'm like, Okay, I can't for

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Speaker 1: a child.

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Speaker 3: Well, also, you've got to remember this is one child exactly.

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Speaker 3: This is based on a median line because we know

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Speaker 3: that economic status is different for everyone, and therefore those

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Speaker 3: who are doing without are just trying to make do.

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Speaker 3: So who knows if they're getting everything they need to

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Speaker 3: the amount of kids that are in the foster gas

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Speaker 3: system that get very little. In fact, there's a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of things, but that is the average. And again

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Speaker 3: in the US, we know that the income statistics and

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Speaker 3: income variations are huge. The gaps are huge, and I

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Speaker 3: think we need to account for that. So we could

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Speaker 3: have people who are making literally twelve thousand and that's

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Speaker 3: a minimum wage job to people making billions, and so

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Speaker 3: we're putting those in the line. So that's really not

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Speaker 3: fair calculation. And who's spending what on what? Of course,

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Speaker 3: if you're trying to buy kids' education, like buy a

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Speaker 3: kid's acceptance by giving millions of dollars to a specific

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Speaker 3: school because your kids is not smart enough to get

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Speaker 3: accepted whatever, that's not accounting for you either, So.

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Speaker 2: Leave that one alone.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, for me specifically, my adoption costs about ten

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Speaker 3: to twenty thousand. I believe, I can't quite remember. I

371
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Speaker 3: came in at seven, everything, I bought my own car,

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Speaker 3: started working at fourteen, and I paid for my own school.

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Speaker 3: I paid for everything after school, like all of that.

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Speaker 3: The only thing I didn't pay for was car insurance

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Speaker 3: until I was twenty one, and then after that I

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Speaker 3: was on my own.

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Speaker 2: So definitely allowed to consider and who's giving what.

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Speaker 3: But and again I think within the millennials, because I

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Speaker 3: need people to stop using the term geriatric because again annoying,

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Speaker 3: but technically they said I'm geriatric. Millennial whoever said that,

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Speaker 3: I don't like you because in that generation of earning

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00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,239
Speaker 3: your own income to get yourself into school, things like

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00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:17,240
Speaker 3: grants that help people get into school, or if you're

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Speaker 3: in UK, which.

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Speaker 2: Hi, look, post education is free and it should be,

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Speaker 2: but okay.

387
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Speaker 3: Stuff like that, you start considering the different amounts of

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Speaker 3: money that you have to say for your kid. Other

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00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 3: reasons can be as simple slash complicated, such as mental

390
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Speaker 3: health and past trauma. And you just kind of talked

391
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Speaker 3: about it, and I've talked about it before, and we've

392
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Speaker 3: heard from people from our listeners specifically, like when we

393
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Speaker 3: talked about parentification of not wanting children or fear having children,

394
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Speaker 3: And honestly, I'm in that category as well. So much

395
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Speaker 3: past trauma, so much collective trauma, and for me, so

396
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Speaker 3: much work trauma.

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Speaker 2: So I've seen the makeup of really bad.

398
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Speaker 3: Families, seeing the hardness of addiction in families, and being

399
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Speaker 3: enable to actually afford and get help. Not being able

400
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 3: to afford childcare has been a reason to remove children,

401
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,919
Speaker 3: which is absurd and makes me angry. And I didn't,

402
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,960
Speaker 3: I didn't, But it's a complicated system and the expectations

403
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,359
Speaker 3: placed on specifically women or those who have uses in

404
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 3: general to care for their children without any assistance or

405
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 3: barely any assistance is absurd in itself and it already

406
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Speaker 3: puts them up to fail. And for me, seeing that

407
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Speaker 3: I know I have the support system, but the overall

408
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 3: idea of just no, no, no, I'm good, I'm good,

409
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Speaker 3: and growing up with my past trauma, the fear of

410
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Speaker 3: what I will do to my own kids, whether it's

411
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Speaker 3: I'm overly you know, too needy or too you know,

412
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 3: all of these things, which is why I have a

413
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 3: dog that I'm too needy with. And honestly, as a nanny,

414
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 3: I felt like I was raising my own like I

415
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 3: was raising kids already, and I'm sure I got paid

416
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Speaker 3: for it, but I literally raised kids for for five years.

417
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Speaker 3: I had one that was two to six when I

418
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 3: had taken care of them, and not that the parents

419
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Speaker 3: weren't present.

420
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Speaker 2: The mother was absolutely present. She just needs a lot

421
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Speaker 2: of help.

422
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I ended up being the darterarian, the disciplinaria,

423
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Speaker 3: or like the schedule keeper. It was interesting, but yeah,

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Speaker 3: I feel like I've already raised it. So I'm like,

425
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Speaker 3: do I want to do that on my own?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

427
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Speaker 2: I uh.

428
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Speaker 1: I feel like for a period of time I raised

429
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Speaker 1: my little brother and now it's like interesting going through

430
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: therapy where now I'm like having guilt resurface of like

431
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: did I do a good job raising him? It's like

432
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Speaker 1: where'd you? Should you have been raising him? I don't know,

433
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,199
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, that's been one of the things I

434
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: think about too, is I'm not sure I did a

435
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 1: good job. So I was a child, but still, so

436
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,320
Speaker 1: what do we do with this regret? There are so

437
00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 1: many articles that are there to help and encourage our decisions,

438
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Speaker 1: meaning allow us to feel that the decision we were

439
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: making is okay and acceptable for us. So one thing

440
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: is trust that decision you are making is best for you.

441
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: Try to separate what you want versus what society tells

442
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: you what you want.

443
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 3: And yeah, also it's okay to change your mind and

444
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 3: not always be sure. Like I said, I am going

445
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: back and forth with it, having deep conversations with people,

446
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 3: current partner, all of that, just trying to figure out, hey,

447
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: it's happening. And I went and visited a couple who

448
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 3: are friends of mine. I've been friends with them a

449
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 3: very long time. They just had their first child not

450
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 3: too long ago. She is a little older than myself

451
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 3: and I talked about it with her. I was like,

452
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 3: how was there any complications? How do you feel about

453
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 3: all of this? What did you think?

454
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 2: And how do you feel? And the baby is adorable,

455
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 2: by the way, And.

456
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 3: I did I get had that moment of like, oh,

457
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 3: I'm only got a couple of more years.

458
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, what I need to do?

459
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 3: And it is it's a hard decision, and I still

460
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,760
Speaker 3: have it back and forth, and I think, up again,

461
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 3: part of that is society slowly backing off and realizing this.

462
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 2: Is not this is not up to us.

463
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 3: We really don't have any say so on what a

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00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 3: family or looks like anymore, and we really shouldn't dictate that.

465
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 3: And of course, yeah, we need to have a larger

466
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 3: conversation about the language of pregnancy in general. I'm still

467
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 3: mad about this geriatric pregnancy thing, by the way. And again,

468
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,959
Speaker 3: the conversation of choice of those who choose to have children,

469
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 3: that's wonderful. Yeah, those who choose not to have children,

470
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 3: that's wonderful too. And as one listener reminded us as

471
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 3: she talked about her own child and having to go

472
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 3: through all the hardships and being able to have a

473
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 3: child and then being told that, oh, you just had

474
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 3: a pandemic baby, and she's like, that's insulting. That's not

475
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 3: what happened. This was something that they've been hoping for

476
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: wanting and they finally got and are so excited, but

477
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 3: to have it dismissed like that is really insulting.

478
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 2: And yeah, we need to talk about that.

479
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: This is a private decision and whatever it might be,

480
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,959
Speaker 3: and it is something private, and it can be heartbreaking.

481
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 3: Yeah either way, whether it's they involuntarily were childless and

482
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: they really wanted and it just didn't happen, and there's

483
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 3: a lot of heartbreak to that, to those who are

484
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,679
Speaker 3: voluntarily wanting to be childless, and there's a lot of

485
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 3: reasons for that, there's a lot of trauma behind that.

486
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 3: These are private matters that need to be allowed to

487
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 3: be private. And also, let's talk about this as you

488
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 3: don't have any questions to ask, don't ask when they're

489
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 3: gonna get pregnant, don't guess when you're having a baby.

490
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,479
Speaker 3: Let's not let's just throw that all out the window.

491
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 3: It's not a conversation starter. If we didn't bring it up,

492
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 3: as in those who have uteruses, then you have no

493
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 3: business in asking.

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00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, period.

495
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there are so many avenues we could discuss

496
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: here because definitely I think that whole perfect mother image

497
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: is at play, and a lot of this because I'm

498
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 1: pretty confident in my own decision, but I think at

499
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: some time I was the fear of living up to

500
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: that was what was the main decider, and as we've discussed,

501
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: it's like impossible to live up to that, right, And

502
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 1: so yeah, yeah, there's so much we could untangle here,

503
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: and I'm sure we will in the future. In the meantime, listeners,

504
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: if you'd like to contact us, you can or email

505
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,240
Speaker 1: us Stuffy Da mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You

506
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts, or

507
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: on Instagram and Stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as

508
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: always to our.

509
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 2: Super producer, Christina Bye you.

510
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never Told You,

511
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: the production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit

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00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or regul listen to your

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00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: favorite shows.