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Speaker 1: A raven haired thirty six year old Florida woman apparently

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Speaker 1: scams an eighty seven year old Holocaust survivor out of

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Speaker 1: nearly three million dollars his entire life savings. He's booted

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Speaker 1: out of his home while she, using all of his money,

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Speaker 1: is living in luxury How did that happen? Repeat? A

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Speaker 1: raven haired thirty six year old Florida woman scams an

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Speaker 1: eighty seven year old Holocaust survivor like he hasn't lived

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Speaker 1: through enough already, out of his entire life savings nearly

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Speaker 1: three million dollars. He is thrown out of his home

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Speaker 1: while she lives in a luxury abode. How does it happen?

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Speaker 1: I may see grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us here at Fox Nation and series

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Speaker 1: x SEM one eleven. First of all, take a listen

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Speaker 1: to our friends at crime Online.

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Speaker 2: An eighty seven year old Holocaust survivor living in Manhattan

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Speaker 2: is enjoying a nice retirement when he decides to look

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Speaker 2: for some companionship online, someone nice, someone to pass the

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Speaker 2: time with, and he found her or did she find him?

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Speaker 2: It was a dating app that connected thirty six year

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Speaker 2: old Peaches Strgo with the eighty seven year old, wealthy,

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Speaker 2: retired gentleman. Sterco finds the man easy to talk to

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Speaker 2: and he looks forward to chatting with her. Then one

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Speaker 2: day she shares a small problem with him. She was

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Speaker 2: in an accident a while back, and the lawyer that

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Speaker 2: represented her is now demanding to be paid before he

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Speaker 2: will release her funds. She wasn't asking for the money,

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Speaker 2: just alone to pay the lawyer. She would pay him

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Speaker 2: as soon as she accessed her money. He asks where

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Speaker 2: to send it.

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Speaker 1: Wow, this woman, peaches Stergo aka Alice. She's playing the

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Speaker 1: long game. She's got her eye on the prize. This

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Speaker 1: scam took almost four years. So that's almost what almost

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Speaker 1: a million dollars a year, seven hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars per year that she steals from a Holocaust survivor

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Speaker 1: take a listen to more from Sydney Summer.

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Speaker 2: The conversations with Stgo and her octogenarian friend continue. Stergo

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Speaker 2: tells her gentleman friend that the money has been deposited

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Speaker 2: in her TD Bank account. Oddly enough, there's a small

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Speaker 2: problem with her TD Bank account and she needs a

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Speaker 2: little more money. If she doesn't get the money soon,

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Speaker 2: her account will be frozen, and not only will she

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Speaker 2: lose her money, but she also won't be able to

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Speaker 2: pay back her gentleman friend. She really wants to make

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Speaker 2: sure she pays him back, so he writes another check.

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Speaker 1: This poor guy, eighty seven year old Holocaust survive her

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Speaker 1: living by himself, lonely, goes online to make a friend,

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Speaker 1: and he, of all people, finds Alice Peaches stgo joining

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Speaker 1: me an all star panel to makes sense of what

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Speaker 1: we know of this, But first straight out to crimeoonline

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Speaker 1: dot Com investigative reporter Dave Matt Dave I was noticing

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Speaker 1: the way Sidney Somner was explaining it that she has

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Speaker 1: this online conversation going and they talk on the phone

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Speaker 1: as well, and they send pictures, so he's got a

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Speaker 1: picture of who he thinks is a beautiful woman talking

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Speaker 1: to him. And then after weeks have passed, then suddenly

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Speaker 1: out goes the hook. She says she has a small problem,

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Speaker 1: a small problem regarding an accident that happened a while back.

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Speaker 1: Now the lawyer wants money. Totally believable, so she basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, wraps him up in a contoon of complacency

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Speaker 1: and then bam, puts out the hook.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned early on the Long Con. You said it,

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Speaker 3: and you're dead on right. What she does is she

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Speaker 3: paints herself as a double victim. She was in a

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Speaker 3: car accident and she was hurt bad enough that she

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Speaker 3: had to get a lawyer to go after a settlement

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Speaker 3: money and the lawyer apparently won. But she's still a

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Speaker 3: victim because now the lawyer says, well, I'm not freeing

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Speaker 3: up your money until I get paid. So she is

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Speaker 3: able to present this gentleman who look, he's looking you

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Speaker 3: mentioned he's lonely, he's looking for a friend. And in reality,

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Speaker 3: when you are talking about somebody who's got a couple

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Speaker 3: of million dollars, twenty five thousand probably doesn't sound like

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Speaker 3: that much, not like does to me. And the way

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Speaker 3: she pitches it is, Hey, this money is already here.

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Speaker 3: All I've got to do is borrow it from you

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Speaker 3: so I can get all of mine and then I'll

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Speaker 3: pay you right back. That's the hook and that's the carrot.

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Speaker 3: All at the same time.

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Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about the scam that she pulled on

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Speaker 1: this guy. Dave meg joining me Crime online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter also with me, Debbie Montgomery Johnson, a real

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Speaker 1: life victim of cyber love. She's now an international speaker,

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Speaker 1: best selling author, victim's advocate, and founder of The Woman

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Speaker 1: Behind the Smile at the Woman behind the Smile dot com. Debbie,

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Speaker 1: what happened to you?

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Speaker 4: Similar but not the same? I mean, it was as

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Speaker 4: long as our last gentleman said, it was a long time.

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Speaker 4: It actually happened after my husband passed away suddenly, and

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Speaker 4: I went online due to friends saying get a life.

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Speaker 4: They wanted me after six months after lud died. They said,

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Speaker 4: get a life, you know, get out and date, put

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Speaker 4: yourself out there. And I thought online dating then was safe.

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Speaker 4: It was safer than doing it in person. I'd been

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Speaker 4: married twenty six years and I wasn't ready for somebody

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Speaker 4: in the house. But I did want a friend, just

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Speaker 4: as this gentleman he wanted a friend. Men particularly are

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Speaker 4: subjective to the white night syndrome kind of like he

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Speaker 4: wanted to take care of her, and I wanted my

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Speaker 4: guy to take care of me. But you know, I

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Speaker 4: didn't give willingly to get him out of trouble. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: I was helping his company, his business, and I was

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Speaker 4: assured also being paid back, and so it's not it's

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Speaker 4: not aimed at people who necessarily lonely. In this case,

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Speaker 4: this is elder fraud. And that gentleman was lonely. He

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Speaker 4: was by himself. And I always say be aware, you know,

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Speaker 4: be aware of what family are doing, what your friends

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Speaker 4: are doing, and listen to them, watch them. I wonder,

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Speaker 4: you know his son found out about this later on,

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Speaker 4: but who was watching him write sixty two checks? Where

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Speaker 4: was the bank?

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Speaker 5: You know?

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Speaker 4: And the biggest thing I want here is is we

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Speaker 4: all look at it like an eighty seven year old

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Speaker 4: man Holocauster Biber.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's bad.

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Speaker 4: But you've got sixty year old women, seventy year old women,

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Speaker 4: eighty year old women being taken every single day around

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Speaker 4: the globe. And we look at these women as, oh,

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Speaker 4: that was really stupid of them. Why did they do that?

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Speaker 4: There's no victim blame here. This is pure manipulation. She

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Speaker 4: is a criminal and she has gone after this gentleman

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Speaker 4: and just ripped his heart out, ripped his home away

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Speaker 4: from him. And you know, I'd put her, But it

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Speaker 4: happens every single day to people just like you and me.

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Speaker 1: How much money were you scammed out of Debbie over

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Speaker 1: two years I.

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Speaker 4: Last a million, a million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Oh, dear Lord in heaven, and the guy said that. Actually,

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Speaker 1: let's hear it in Debbie's own words in Our Cup

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Speaker 1: forty three, speaking to CBS, I.

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Speaker 6: Wasn't lonely, desperate, lonely. I really I wanted someone to

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Speaker 6: talk to.

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Speaker 7: Debbie Montgomery Johnson signed up for an online dating service

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Speaker 7: after the sudden death of her husband Lou in twenty ten.

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Speaker 6: I thought, oh, that's safe.

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Speaker 1: I can do it from my home, Mike.

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Speaker 7: That's where the widowed mother of four met a British

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Speaker 7: businessman who called himself Eric Cole.

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Speaker 6: I talked to him a few times. I mean we messaged.

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Speaker 7: Every day, Johnson said, as she and Cole engaged in

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Speaker 7: a two year online relationship but never met in person.

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Speaker 1: Over the course of their.

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Speaker 7: Relationship, Johnson says she gave Cole more than a million

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Speaker 7: dollars in increments.

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Speaker 6: At this point, your heart rules your head, and I

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Speaker 6: was doing what my heart wanted me to do.

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Speaker 7: In twenty twelve, Johnson says her life stopped when Cole

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Speaker 7: came clean over video chat, revealing who he really was

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Speaker 7: a young man in Nigeria.

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Speaker 1: Bas honest face.

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Speaker 6: Can we keep this going, and I'm thinking, can we

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Speaker 6: keep this going? Are you out of your mind?

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Speaker 1: Can we keep this thing going? And keep this scam going?

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Speaker 1: Is what he meant to say. A million dollars from

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Speaker 1: a woman who was vulnerable. Debbie had just lost her

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Speaker 1: husband that she loved so deeply, and in an effort

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Speaker 1: to quote, get out there, this is what happened. So

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Speaker 1: one story leads to the next, and there's another problem

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Speaker 1: and another problem. That's exactly what happened to our holocaust.

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Speaker 1: Her vibe or take a listen hour cut three.

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Speaker 2: Strugo continues to have emergencies and a lot of bad luck.

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Speaker 2: She seeks advice from her occagenarian friend, sharing emails from

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Speaker 2: TD Bank, official letters from a TD Bank employee, as

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Speaker 2: well as invoices to show that she is trying to

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Speaker 2: get things paid off so she can get her money

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Speaker 2: freed up. When that's done, she tells the retiree she

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Speaker 2: can pay him back. But now the man doesn't have

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Speaker 2: any more to give, and he calls his son for help.

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Speaker 2: A few years ago, he had enough money to live

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Speaker 2: a financially worry free retirement, and now he's going to

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Speaker 2: lose his apartment.

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Speaker 1: Losing everything, joining me. Jeffrey Wolf, Denver based cyber crime lawyer,

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Speaker 1: founder and manager of Wolf Law Colorado dot com. Jeffrey,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. You know, it's not

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Speaker 1: hard at all. It's not difficult to fake an official

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Speaker 1: looking bank statement or an American Express email. I remember

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Speaker 1: almost got taken in by an email. It looks just

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Speaker 1: like American Express emails, except it said something that didn't

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Speaker 1: make sense to me. And you know it always says

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Speaker 1: click here and then you get a ton of malware.

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Speaker 1: Before I clicked. I read it again. I'm like, this

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Speaker 1: just isn't right, This isn't the way my account would

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Speaker 1: normally be. And it turns out it was fake. But

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Speaker 1: I was always impressed by the fraudstre's ability to fake

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Speaker 1: such a legitimate looking American Express email. So here's an

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Speaker 1: eighty seven year old guy living alone and this woman

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Speaker 1: piecees Strgo sends him letters from her bank, letters from

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Speaker 1: credit cards and lawyers and they all look real.

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Speaker 8: Yeah. Absolutely. That ends up being part of the fraud

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Speaker 8: in these cases is that somebody who you have a

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Speaker 8: genuine relationship with, who needs money from you, doesn't feel

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Speaker 8: the need to send you proof that they need it.

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Speaker 8: That is lying one oh one. The more somebody talks,

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Speaker 8: the more they're lying, the more proof that they're saying

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Speaker 8: they can show you, the more likely it is that

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Speaker 8: they have fabricated that. And so I tell anyone who's

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Speaker 8: dealing with anything online that you always want to make

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Speaker 8: sure that you are only dealing financially with people. You know,

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Speaker 8: that you are only dealing with portals and websites, that

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Speaker 8: you know that you're never taking anybody's word for it.

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Speaker 8: You're never responding to emails. You pick up the phone,

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Speaker 8: you call the number on the back of your credit

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Speaker 8: card when your bank emails you, because then you know

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Speaker 8: you're talking to them and not whoever has emailed you.

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Speaker 8: And it's no different than when you're looking at one

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Speaker 8: of these romance cons is that the more proof they're

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Speaker 8: trying to give you, the more likely it is that

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Speaker 8: some or all of it is fraud.

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Speaker 1: Almost every time, Jeffrey Wolf joining me Denver Base cyber

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Speaker 1: crime Attorney, you brought up something I never actually verbalized

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Speaker 1: or thought through. When people keep saying, look, here's a

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Speaker 1: letter in you never asked to see the letter. Time

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Greece joining me right now, is the

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Speaker 1: Queen of body language interpretation. Susan Constantine. She can spot

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Speaker 1: a lie a mile away. Deception is her specialty. She's

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Speaker 1: president of the Human Behavior Academy. Oh my goodness, I

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Speaker 1: can just imagine that cocktail party, everybody watching each other

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Speaker 1: as they move around the room. Author of how to

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Speaker 1: Spot a Liar in seven Seconds or left. She says

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Speaker 1: Susanconstantine dot com. I don't want to go to your party, Okay,

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Speaker 1: as if I was going to be invited, But Susan Constantine,

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Speaker 1: with all those body language experts at the Human Behavior Academy,

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Speaker 1: Oh dear Susan, I never thought of it till Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: just said it. That when people suddenly start trying to

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Speaker 1: offer you proof of the claim of their request when

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Speaker 1: you didn't ask them for it. True.

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Speaker 9: And so that's one of the clues that people will

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Speaker 9: give you unsolicited information. They will give you a lot

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Speaker 9: of additional information without actually asking answering the question. So

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Speaker 9: anytime we hear or I hear additional extraneous information, that

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Speaker 9: is a really big red flag because they're what they're

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Speaker 9: trying to do is convince you and to try to

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Speaker 9: gain your trust when they don't feel confident themselves.

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Speaker 4: They keep on.

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Speaker 9: Going until they feel that they have convinced you before

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Speaker 9: they'll go on to the next subject.

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Speaker 1: Susan Constantine, give me some tips, okay, Karen Stark, renowned

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Speaker 1: psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. I want you to

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Speaker 1: take all this in percolate. Okay, then for me the

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Speaker 1: perfect cup of analysis. Okay, Susan Constantine. What should we

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Speaker 1: look for when we're looking for lies? Okay?

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Speaker 9: So when we were looking for lies, we're looking for

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Speaker 9: incongruencies between what they say and there. Well, if in

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Speaker 9: this case they didn't get to this person, didn't get

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Speaker 9: to know them, you know, in person. But in the

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Speaker 9: real world, what we're looking for incongruencies. We're looking for

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Speaker 9: differences between what they say in their body language. There

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Speaker 9: they're not congruent. So anytime you ever see any sort

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Speaker 9: of shift or deviation from there, that is always a

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Speaker 9: red flag for me. The other thing is they want

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Speaker 9: to build your trust very quickly. They really in build

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Speaker 9: themselves very quickly and rapidly into your life. They are

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Speaker 9: very likable, approachable, they are easily to get to know,

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Speaker 9: They build your trust very easily, and and those are

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Speaker 9: really big clues for me. So language is a big one.

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Speaker 9: They generally don't put their own name into it. They

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Speaker 9: eliminate pronouns like I, me, and my. Those are really

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Speaker 9: big red flags. Tend to use third person pronoules like they,

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Speaker 9: them and those guys. They use a lot of red

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Speaker 9: verbal red hearings which I could go into and for

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Speaker 9: a long time. But they use third person gimmicks. They

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Speaker 9: use loophole, line, They use a lot of these different

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Speaker 9: techniques to be able to gain your trust and also

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Speaker 9: too when you're looking at their body language. You know,

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Speaker 9: oftentimes we say they don't make eye contact with you.

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Speaker 9: Well that's not true, because they tend to really lock

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Speaker 9: eyes with you. Their eye tends to kind of move

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Speaker 9: or jog around or really not assign a deception, but

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Speaker 9: rather look for these little micro movements, you know, where

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Speaker 9: they're a little one side of their shoulder will shrug

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Speaker 9: a little bit. They'll have a smirk or a smile

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Speaker 9: or a laugh or puffing out of air when they're

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Speaker 9: talking at the end of the sentence, or maybe at

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Speaker 9: the end of their sentence, they'll raise their pitch. So

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Speaker 9: any kind of vocal clues, vocal tremors that are kind

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Speaker 9: of off their baseline, Those are all indications of deception.

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Speaker 1: You know, one thing I want to mention Season Constantine,

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Speaker 1: author of How to Spot a Liar in Seven Seconds

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Speaker 1: or Less, Susan, I think some of their discussions were

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Speaker 1: over zoom or FaceTime because he is in Manhattan and

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Speaker 1: she's in Florida, so I think he did get to

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Speaker 1: see her. But of course he's eighty seven years old,

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Speaker 1: he's been through HL and back. As I mentioned, he's

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Speaker 1: a Holocaust survivor, which may have played into some of

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Speaker 1: his feelings of loneliness and abandonment and looking for comfort.

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Speaker 1: Of course, I'm just a JD, not an MD or

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Speaker 1: a shrink like some of you guys. But him being

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Speaker 1: alone in his apartment in Manhattan, surrounded by millions of people,

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Speaker 1: but not really knowing anyone, Well, take a listen to

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Speaker 1: what happens when he finally calls his son. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut four.

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Speaker 2: When the eighty seven year old Holocaust survivor's son gets involved.

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Speaker 2: It isn't long before he reaches out for help the

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Speaker 2: United States Justice Apartment in Best Gates and finds out

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Speaker 2: that Peaches Sturgo, who friends sometimes call Alice, didn't get

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Speaker 2: the money from an injury settlement. There was never any

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Speaker 2: injury or lawyer. The email address was fake, and so

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Speaker 2: were the official looking documents from TD Bank. It was

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Speaker 2: all a fraud. But while the old man lost his

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Speaker 2: life savings and had to give up his apartment, Stergo

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Speaker 2: was living large with his life savings while her old

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Speaker 2: friend is losing his apartment. Stergo lives in a gated

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Speaker 2: community and owns a condo, numerous cars, a boat, and

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Speaker 2: she spends thousands of his dollars on designer clothing and

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Speaker 2: vacations at the Ritz Carlton.

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Speaker 1: And to our Cuts five and six are friends at

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Speaker 1: Fox thirty five.

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Speaker 10: Investigators says Stergo's actions forced a victim to lose his home,

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Speaker 10: all the while, they believe Sergo was using that money

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Speaker 10: to buy cars, boats, and even a home Right here

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Speaker 10: in Central Florida. Peach's Alice Stergo is accused of stealing

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Speaker 10: two point eight million dollars from an eighty seven year

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Speaker 10: old Holocaust survivor. Investigators believe the two men on a

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Speaker 10: dating app in twenty seventeen, they say, not long after

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Speaker 10: the fraud began.

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Speaker 1: Their creativity doing no bound.

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Speaker 10: Investigators believe Stgo repeatedly lied to the victim, convincing him

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Speaker 10: into sending her fifty thousand dollars a month. The indictment

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Speaker 10: states she made the victim believe that her bank needed

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Speaker 10: more money or her account would freeze and she'd lose

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Speaker 10: it all. Out of fear of losing his money, the

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Speaker 10: victim said sixty two checks worth over two point eight

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Speaker 10: million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Joining in right now, John Muffler, former Chief Inspector for

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Speaker 1: the US Marshall Service. You can find him at Equitossglobalsecurity

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Speaker 1: dot com. John. Thank you for being with us. John.

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Speaker 1: A problem is going to be how do the FEDS

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Speaker 1: track her down? Because this is clearly wire fraud. She's

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Speaker 1: using the phone, she's using the computer. She's getting financial

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Speaker 1: transactions across state lines, and that's how the FEDS get

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Speaker 1: a hold of you. She's in Florida, he's in New York.

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Speaker 1: These fraudulent transactions used wire, which is like bank transactions

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Speaker 1: or credit card transactions and checks financial transfers. But how

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Speaker 1: do they find her? How can they track her down? John?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 11: I think it's a relatively easy case for the Bureau

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Speaker 11: in that you know, this information is all trackable because

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Speaker 11: it's all the electronic communications Bank accounts, social media, correspondence,

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Speaker 11: phone calls. All that's very easily trackable. I imagine they

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Speaker 11: have a very lengthy list of not just the crime,

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Speaker 11: but potentially other victims as well. I can't imagine she

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Speaker 11: came out of nowhere to begin her first act as

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Speaker 11: a con artist with this particular victim. So I think,

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Speaker 11: you know, again, there's an it's an easy dots to

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Speaker 11: connect in an investigation.

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Speaker 1: But I mean physically how do you do it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've got accounts that she's having the money, it's being deposited,

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Speaker 1: and then so what you go to the bank and

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Speaker 1: you get an idea of whose account that is and

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Speaker 1: where they live. How do you do it? How do

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Speaker 1: you physically do it?

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Speaker 11: Yeah, you're looking at getting you know, the appropriate you know,

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Speaker 11: information to the courts for her particular bank information, her

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Speaker 11: social Security number, her data, birth information they'd be able

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Speaker 11: to get from her, and then able to research through

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Speaker 11: the different credit bureaus where that money may be what's

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Speaker 11: connected to her. So again it takes takes some little

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Speaker 11: bit of due diligence on the agent's part, but I

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Speaker 11: think fairly easy to connect her name to you know,

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Speaker 11: the different accounts that she's been using to deposit.

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Speaker 1: Wait till you hear how Peaches used this poor man's money.

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Speaker 1: Take a Lissnaur cut nine w sh.

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Speaker 12: A Florida woman is facing federal charges after a prosecutor

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Speaker 12: say she swindled an eighty seven year old Holocaust survivor out.

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Speaker 1: Of nearly three million dollars.

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Speaker 12: The man met thirty six year old Peaches Stirgo, also

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Speaker 12: known as Alice, on a dating website several years ago.

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Speaker 12: She used a variety of excuses to get him to

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Speaker 12: send her money, always with the promise that she would

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Speaker 12: pay him back now. Instead, we're told she used that

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Speaker 12: money to buy a home in a gated community, a condo,

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Speaker 12: a boat, and several cars.

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Speaker 1: Including a corvette.

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Speaker 12: By the time the man admitted to his son what

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Speaker 12: he had done, he'd given her his entire life savings.

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Speaker 1: Karen Start joining me, high profile psychologist out of Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: You can find her at Karenstart dot com Karen with

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Speaker 1: a C. Karen. We heard earlier the so called White

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Speaker 1: Night Complex. What happened here.

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Speaker 5: It's so heartbreaking, Nancy, because someone is taking thatantage of somebody,

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Speaker 5: an elderly person, and that is what happens. They look

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Speaker 5: for people who are vulnerable, and so he he's looking

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Speaker 5: for a companion and has an instinct to want to help.

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Speaker 5: That's that white Knight. He wants to come in and

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Speaker 5: save her, and he doesn't realize he's being scammed.

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Speaker 1: And the thing that is most.

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Speaker 5: Upsetting to me in situations like this is that the

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Speaker 5: person like this gentleman, he doesn't think to get in

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Speaker 5: touch with his family. He doesn't think to ask anybody

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Speaker 5: does this make sense? Or can you look at what

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Speaker 5: I'm doing? And nobody knows to check on him. And

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Speaker 5: so someone who has been through the worst that anybody

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Speaker 5: can possibly imagine, also hard experience, is now being scammed

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Speaker 5: out of all of his money because he's a good

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Speaker 5: person and the least he's helping somebody.

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Speaker 1: And this woman spent the money on multiple rolex watches,

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Speaker 1: a boat, two cars, luxury items, expensive jewelry, pocketbooks, you

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Speaker 1: name it. What does that say to you? Susan Constantine tells.

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Speaker 9: Me that she's a con and she's a scammer and

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Speaker 9: this is all about her.

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Speaker 4: So, you know, I think that.

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Speaker 9: She became very obsessive about it once she find found

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Speaker 9: that she really got a good fish on her hook.

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Speaker 9: And she was all how easy it was for her

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Speaker 9: to be able to gain more of his trust. Then

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Speaker 9: the more that fueled her, So the more it fueled

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Speaker 9: that narcissism in her, She felt that she could she

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Speaker 9: was invincible, so she could still still continue to take

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Speaker 9: from him and ask money because she knew that she

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Speaker 9: knew exactly what his triggers were. She knew how to

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Speaker 9: work those triggers for her advantage, and that's that's how

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Speaker 9: she got the money.

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Speaker 1: Guys, what are some red flags look out for? Take

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Speaker 1: a listener cut seven.

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Speaker 13: There's typically a sense of urgency and some reason why

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Speaker 13: the money chain has to continue.

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Speaker 10: Experts say romance fraud crimes like this are on the

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Speaker 10: rise nationwide and are affecting people of all ages. Experts

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Speaker 10: say scams like this are preventable.

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Speaker 14: If they feel to be told the only way to

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Speaker 14: get their money back is by investing additional funds.

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Speaker 3: That's a huge red flag.

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Speaker 1: The only way to get the money back is to

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Speaker 1: spend more money. That is a huge red flag. Guys.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about an eighty seven year old Holocaust

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Speaker 1: survivor that lost his entire life savings, and I think

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Speaker 1: part of it to Wie Montgomery Johnson, who was herself

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Speaker 1: a cyber victim now an international speaker, is that he

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Speaker 1: didn't want to tell his children, his son what he

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Speaker 1: had done because he probably knew that some would disapprove

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Speaker 1: of a relationship with a much, much young woman in

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Speaker 1: another state that he was loaning money to, so he

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Speaker 1: probably didn't want that judging.

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Speaker 4: Well, that's absolutely true, Nancy. And I know when my

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Speaker 4: kids said, Mom, don't, don't don't, I say, hey, i'm

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Speaker 4: the adult here, leave me alone, and I shut them out.

437
00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 4: And that's exactly what this woman, or a part of

438
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 4: me cannot believe that she did this by herself, because

439
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,159
Speaker 4: typically they work in groups. This is very involved in

440
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 4: what she did here, but she actually got him to

441
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 4: not talk about it. And that's what the scammers, the

442
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 4: criminals do, is he said, don't listen to those people.

443
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 4: You know, I'm going to take care of you. I'm

444
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,360
Speaker 4: there for you, and i'll make sure that you get

445
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 4: your money back, typically with interest, you know. But they

446
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 4: isolate because they don't want you to listen to anybody else,

447
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 4: just them, And that's devastating when it all falls apart,

448
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 4: because now you've isolated yourself from friends and family who

449
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 4: could have helped, would have helped, but didn't know what

450
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 4: was going on, and that's part of the con.

451
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: So, Debbie Montgomery, when you were victimized online and lost

452
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: a million dollars to the scam artist, why is it

453
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: you did not want your family to know what was.

454
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 4: Happening because I was home alone. I was, you know,

455
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 4: I was see lew had died and I was working

456
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 4: my company from the house, and I didn't want to

457
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 4: bring the kids into it because when they started being

458
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 4: the naysayers, I felt like, it's not any of their business.

459
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 4: They weren't living here. My youngest was here, but my

460
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,680
Speaker 4: oldest was. My older three were out of the house.

461
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 4: They had lives of their own, and actually it was

462
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 4: it was. It was very going to say intoxicating. I'm

463
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 4: not a drinker, but I loved the feeling that I

464
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 4: got when I was involved because I felt like young again.

465
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 4: I felt like I was desirable again. It was very

466
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 4: interesting the emotions that go on when you're in the

467
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 4: middle of this and you don't see the red flags.

468
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 4: I looked back and call them pink flags now, but

469
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 4: those red flags weren't hard red flags. And when my

470
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 4: kids wanted to say, Mom, don't I'm like, just leave

471
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 4: me alone. I'm okay, you know I was. I was

472
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 4: not a dummy. I was well and I'm well trained,

473
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 4: well educated. I had a good company, and I didn't

474
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 4: need my children, who I thought, you know, they.

475
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: Were good kids.

476
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 4: But it said, I don't need you to tell me

477
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 4: what to do right now, and I shut them out.

478
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 4: And that's what happens, and that's what the scammers bank on,

479
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 4: and they go, they're laughing their way to the bank

480
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 4: because you are home alone now and you're left by

481
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 4: yourself with no one to support you, even though you've

482
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,160
Speaker 4: done it, basically done that to yourself. You isolated yourself

483
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 4: from family because of the encouragement of the scammers.

484
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: Dave mank joining me Crime online dot Com investigative reporter.

485
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: What are some of the things she purchased from the

486
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: eighty seven year old's life savings?

487
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 3: You know, Nancy, the one thing that really caught my attention,

488
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 3: and you pointed this out that while he had to

489
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 3: give up his apartment in Manhattan, she not only had

490
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,200
Speaker 3: a house in a gated community, but she also bought

491
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 3: a condominium. So well, he lost everything and didn't have

492
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 3: a place to stay. She had two places to stay,

493
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 3: paid for it by him. She also bought a number

494
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 3: of cars. Noted was a Corvette, but also a white

495
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 3: twenty two fifteen hundred pickups. Now I don't undert I

496
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 3: don't know the rolex heights that there are not my

497
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 3: kind of thing. But she bought a Rolex Oyster perpetual

498
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 3: day date forty with Presidents bracelet, date just forty one

499
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 3: with Jubilee bracelet, and a date just forty one with

500
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 3: Oyster bracelet and Roman numeral dial.

501
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: Are all of those Rolexes?

502
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, those are all three Rolexes.

503
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: Well, she bought three rolexes. You lost me on Oyster.

504
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: She bought three Rolexes. Yes, ma'am, correct me if I'm wrong,

505
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,719
Speaker 1: Dave Mack. Did she buy expensive trips?

506
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 8: Yep?

507
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 1: Did she study at places like the Ritz Carlton on

508
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: his money, Yes she did. Did she spend tens of

509
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:51,959
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars on expensive meals? Yes, gold coins yes,

510
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:57,719
Speaker 1: gold bars, yes, jewelry yes, rolex watches, yes. Designer clothing

511
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 1: from stores like Tiffany, Ralph Lauren and Marcus Louis Vatan.

512
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 5: Yes.

513
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: Okay, I can't claim credit for knowing all that because

514
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: I am reading directly from the indictment against her. Peaches

515
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: Stergo aka Alice time stories with Nancy Grace. Just so

516
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: you know, mister victim out there, who we are not naming,

517
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: You're not the only one. You're hearing our friend Debbie

518
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: Montgomery Johnson speaking the founder of The Woman behind the

519
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: Smile and international speaker after what happened to her losing

520
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: a million dollars. They're not the only ones, guys. Take

521
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: a listen to the case of Janet Cook and our

522
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 1: cut forty two.

523
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 15: I got lonely so and I spent a lot of

524
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 15: time on the computer playing games, and I just happened

525
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 15: to go to the date site.

526
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 16: When Jennet Cook went looking for love online seventeen years

527
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 16: after losing her husband, she found a suitor on the

528
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 16: very first day.

529
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 15: I liked him because he was he said sweet things, and.

530
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: He was charming.

531
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 16: After four months of courtship, including emails and phone calls

532
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 16: but never meeting in person, the man, who claimed to

533
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 16: be a contractor from Virginia was suddenly stuck somewhere in

534
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 16: Africa and in serious trouble.

535
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 15: According to the story, he became very ill and he

536
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 15: was in the hospital he claimed to have had a

537
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 15: kidney transplant.

538
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 16: The money started to add up, and before Janet realized

539
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,479
Speaker 16: she was being swindled, the seventy six year old widow

540
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 16: was out roughly three hundred thousand dollars.

541
00:30:55,120 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: Okay, Jeffrey Wolf joining me, Denverbay, cyber crime lawyer, Jeffrey.

542
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: There's so many red streaming bills of alarm right there.

543
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: So the person you've been talking to that flatters you

544
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: all the time suddenly gets stranded in Africa. And if

545
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: that's not far fetched enough, what they can't get applying home?

546
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: If that's not far fetched enough've been Suddenly they need

547
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: a kidney transplant? I mean, really, how does this happen?

548
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: How can people fall for this? Jeffrey, Well, we live in.

549
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 8: A time where people are extremely disconnected and extremely lonely,

550
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 8: especially coming out of COVID. These numbers have ticked up

551
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 8: incredibly because of how isolated people have been for the

552
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 8: last several years. And the bottom line is, if you

553
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 8: ever heard the term not my circus, not my monkeys,

554
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 8: that is what it is. When somebody you just met

555
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 8: needs hundreds of thousands of dollars and you know it's

556
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 8: a situation where when you find somebody who is vulnerable,

557
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 8: who is alone, who is recently widowed, or you know,

558
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 8: just coming out of COVID and lost touch with all

559
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 8: of their friends, it makes it so much easier to

560
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 8: have them so yearning for human contact that they'll believe anything,

561
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 8: they'll do anything, and they'll spend anything to try and

562
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 8: do it. It makes no sense when you look at

563
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 8: it from one thousand feet in the air, But when

564
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 8: you're in those moments, people get victimized very very very

565
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 8: quickly because they so yearn for that human contact and

566
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 8: that affection that they are being given, that love bomb

567
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 8: that they get from this person.

568
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: You were hearing about another victim, Janet Cook, who was

569
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: playing online seventeen years after losing her husband. Well, then

570
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 1: there is another victim. Take a listen. Howur cut forty

571
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: four zero from WMAR.

572
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 17: His name at least he told me his name was

573
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 17: Tony Richard, and he sent pictures of a very handsome doctor.

574
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 13: These are photos of a real doctor, but they're not

575
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 13: of the person who contact did Kate Kleinert on Facebook?

576
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 13: The impostor told her they shared similar interests, and their

577
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 13: chats quickly morphed into daily phone calls. He claimed to

578
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 13: be in Iraq working on a un contract as a surgeon,

579
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 13: and due to safety concerns, he couldn't FaceTime.

580
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: Or carry money on him. So after four months.

581
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 13: Of communicating, Tony asked a favor for his daughter.

582
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 17: She needed a gift card, and that started the whole business.

583
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 13: Kate bought a one hundred dollars VISA gift card, took

584
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 13: a photo of the numbers, then sent it to Tony.

585
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: Then came more requests.

586
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 17: All told, I gave him thirty nine thousand dollars.

587
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: Thirty nine thousand dollars. Well, first of all, a red

588
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: bell of alarm was and he calls himself Tony Richard.

589
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: That's Richard with a funky accent. But explain to me,

590
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: Jeff Muffler, former chief inspector US Marshal Service and a

591
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: strategic advisor for the Gavin de Becker and Associates Group.

592
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: John Muffler, we hear that she gave him money for

593
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: a gift card for his daughter, the photos of the

594
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: numbers and then sent it. Did he use that to

595
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: ultimately rack up those numbers from the visa thirty nine

596
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: thousand dollars of debt?

597
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's usually the beginning of the hook. Right, So

598
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 11: a gift card overseas, I can't connect. That's the mo

599
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 11: of a lot of these. And once once that transaction begins,

600
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 11: you know, the gift card or just a couple of

601
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 11: dollars here, they become you know, invested into that exchange.

602
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 11: And so again, gift cards can be tracked and a

603
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,479
Speaker 11: little harder to do than say credit cards or whatever.

604
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 11: But certainly you know the beginning of of that transaction

605
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 11: between con artists.

606
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: And victim thirty nine in w. Montgomery's case a million dollars.

607
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,240
Speaker 1: In the case of this Holocaust survivor, nearly three million dollars,

608
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: he's thrown out of his apartment, while she has not

609
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: only a condo, but she also purchased a house, a

610
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: Corvette Rolex watches designer clothes. Take a listen to our

611
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 1: cut thirty nine. Our friends at Fox thirty five.

612
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 5: We are learning new details about the smooth talking man

613
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 5: who's now behind bars after police say he swindled a

614
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 5: woman out of eighty thousand dollars.

615
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: Boys in Franklin, Tennessee say.

616
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 13: John Martin Hill here tried to hide under a table

617
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 13: in a hotel conference room when they confronted him late

618
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 13: Tuesday night.

619
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 18: He smiled at his mugshot after he was arrested on

620
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 18: a fugitive's warrant. Fox host Porsche Brunner has more on

621
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 18: what we've learned about the man who's charmed lended him

622
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 18: in a jail cell.

623
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 14: John Martin Hill flashed that now infamous smile after police

624
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,759
Speaker 14: arrested him in Franklin, Tennessee, Tuesday night. He was taken

625
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 14: into custody just hours after Gwynett count Police released these

626
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 14: photos of him, and.

627
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 13: The tip came into one of our supervisors in the

628
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 13: Special Victims Unit.

629
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 14: According to police Corporal Michelle Taiharra, that tip came from

630
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 14: a woman in Franklin who saw the story Tuesday about

631
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 14: the Alpharetto woman who says Hill swindled her out of

632
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 14: eighty thousand dollars just one week after they met and reportedly.

633
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: Fell in love. Susan Constantine joining me, body language expert

634
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: specializing in deception, author of How to Spot a Liar

635
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: in Seven Seconds or Less online? What are the alarm

636
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: signs that you advise people to search for when they

637
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: are communicating?

638
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 4: Sure?

639
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 9: So, one of the things that I've noted just to

640
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 9: myself and by the way we offer those service at

641
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 9: my company. We have a Facebook SCM investigator that worked

642
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 9: for as chrissel Gato. But one of the things that

643
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 9: I noticed is, first of all, the inconsistency with these photographs.

644
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 9: A lot of times are photographs. When you're looking at

645
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 9: the different photographs between he or she with look to

646
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 9: see how they are communicating, and they're what photos they've

647
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 9: actually put up on the Internet, and what the story

648
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 9: they're trying to tell, you'll see start to see some inconsistency.

649
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 9: A lot of times they'll be just like a little round,

650
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 9: little picture of themselves and then they'll keep repeating it

651
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 9: over and over and over again. And usually they're a

652
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 9: military where they're some high official someone that is like

653
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 9: unobtainable for the average person. The other thing is that

654
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 9: I look for too, is in their language. There's always

655
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 9: a cut and taste piece of it. So when you're

656
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 9: looking at how they actually praise words, they'll have misspelled words,

657
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 9: which is incongruent with of course their educational level, et cetera.

658
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 9: And then they'll pop in a piece that is like

659
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 9: in doesn't even make sense, Like you can tell that

660
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 9: they're not very well educated. So those are big signs

661
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 9: for me, and that they tend to really build up

662
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 9: the person they speak about things that are the romance

663
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 9: side of them, things that they find what they'd want

664
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 9: to do with their partners, the you know, the the

665
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 9: long beaches walks and the sunsets and the dinners and

666
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 9: all this kind of things, which is kind of enticing

667
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 9: for our lonely purpose on the other end of it,

668
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 9: that they've never met before. One of the things that

669
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 9: I always recommend that they do. Number One, do your

670
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 9: background check on them. Take the name in there and

671
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 9: start to look her. They can go right and truth

672
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 9: find her and see who this guy is. See where

673
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 9: there's any photographs of the person. I've caught more people

674
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 9: just even on that which is a commercial website, and

675
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 9: found scammers on it many times over truthfinder dot com. Yep,

676
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 9: that's it.

677
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 11: Can I jump in and add something there?

678
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: Yes, go ahead, please?

679
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

680
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 11: I've heard charm and niceness a few times during the conversation,

681
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 11: especially from the victims that have participated in the call.

682
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 11: But you know, to add what she just said is,

683
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 11: you know, think of it as you know, charm and

684
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 11: niceness is not a credential for good intent, right, So

685
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 11: that is not is not as not a character trait.

686
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 11: So you got to think of it that way. I mean,

687
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,919
Speaker 11: she's just said then done. But for victims, if they're

688
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 11: hearing such charmingness niceness, there's a reason for that, that's

689
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 11: a big red flag I would.

690
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 12: Add to that list also.

691
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: So guys, let me ask John Muffler or Jeffrey Well,

692
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: I'll start with you, John, how do we get this

693
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: victim's money back?

694
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 11: That money that she is stolen from the victim, you

695
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 11: know that will be resold and you know he will

696
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:44,439
Speaker 11: be able to get some of that money back. It's

697
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,960
Speaker 11: probably not anywhere near the two point eight million that

698
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 11: was stolen from him, but he will be able to

699
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 11: recover some of that some of that.

700
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: And how do you go about doing that?

701
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 8: Jeffrey, Yeah, yeah, Nancy, that's going to be through the

702
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 8: restitution process at the courthouse and the seizure powers of

703
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 8: the federal government when you commit a crime.

704
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: So Swama is never paying restitution, Okay, yes she is.

705
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 8: It's going to be a part of her plea bargain.

706
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 8: They're going to seize her property.

707
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: Where you make the victim pay restitution. The victim is

708
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: already broke, so she's never paying anything out of her pocket.

709
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: What the state will have to do is seize all

710
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: of her assets what they can find, what they can trace,

711
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,680
Speaker 1: and the state gets it and sells it. She's never

712
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: going to willingly write a check to anybody. But how

713
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: do we go about tracking her accounts, getting those rolexes back,

714
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: finding the cars, selling the condos, selling the house. Who

715
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: does all that? The government?

716
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, absolutely, this is a federal case. So the Federal

717
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 8: Bureau of Investigation in the Attorney General's office are going

718
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 8: to be in charge of tracking the money down, tracking

719
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 8: her assets down, seizing them under federal seizure laws, and

720
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 8: then selling them, and then the proceeds will go to

721
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 8: this victim. That is the way the federal government is

722
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 8: going to work a case like this. So while she

723
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,919
Speaker 8: may not write him a physical check because she's about

724
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 8: to go to prison for a maximum of twenty years,

725
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 8: but she doesn't need to write the check. The government's

726
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 8: going to write him the check. You're right that he

727
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 8: may not get that almost three million dollars that he's

728
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 8: out of pocket, but they have a lot of assets already.

729
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 8: We've read in the indictment the assets that they have

730
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 8: already seized. He is going to get a lot of

731
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 8: money back, and he darn well should get all that

732
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 8: money back.

733
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: I hope so so. Debbie Montgomery Johnson, a victim of

734
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: cyber crimes now international speaker. Bottom line, what's your advice?

735
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 4: And beware and be aware. And I can't say that

736
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 4: this man is going to be lucky, but he is

737
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 4: going to get his money back. Most most, if not all,

738
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 4: of the victims or survivors that I work with, have

739
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 4: gotten nothing back because you can't you can't find the money.

740
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 4: It's gone overseas. So I just watch out for those

741
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 4: red flags. If it seems to be too good to

742
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 4: be true, then it probably is. Do a like I

743
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 4: love to do the background check. When my brothers told

744
00:41:58,120 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 4: me to do that, I said, don't be ridiculous. This

745
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 4: is a dating person, but do a reverse search on pictures,

746
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 4: Get a dating buddy, get someone to help you out,

747
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 4: because you know your your heart rules your head and

748
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 4: your endorphins takeover and you don't want to listen to

749
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 4: the logic. And as the fellow said, here, yeah, looking

750
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 4: back behindsas twenty twenty. When you're in the middle of it,

751
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 4: you can't see what's happening.

752
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 11: You can't.

753
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 4: You're feeling. You feel it what you like. You want

754
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 4: it to be true, and you will make it true

755
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 4: until it crashes and burns, and people lose everything. They

756
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 4: lose all their money, they lose their homes. Many of

757
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 4: the women I've known have lost their lives. And that

758
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 4: is just devastating. And this is elder abuse at its prime.

759
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: Karen Stark. But you also have to check our own ego.

760
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: When you are an eighty seven year old man, what

761
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: do you think a thirty six year old woman is

762
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: interested in? You know, let's make it. Let's take it

763
00:42:57,040 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: away from this victim. My husband had a friend in college,

764
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: perfectly normal, wonderful wife, wonderful marriage. He goes to some

765
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: guy event, to a strip club. I've told you this

766
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,359
Speaker 1: falls for a stripper. By the time she's through with him,

767
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 1: he has sent her son through private school for like

768
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: seven or eight years, got him set up for college.

769
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,040
Speaker 1: He's lost his entire bank account. He was like a stockbroker.

770
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: He loses his job because he went bankrupt, and he

771
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: loses his marriage, and then she dumped him. Now you

772
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: have to ask yourself, why does this person want me,

773
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 1: And that's a hard question when you want to believe

774
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: they love you.

775
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 5: And I think, Nancy, what you are describing, and I

776
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 5: have encountered with the people that I work with, is

777
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 5: that it's so difficult to get somebody.

778
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 11: To pay attention to that that to say to.

779
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,799
Speaker 5: Somebody who's mayby seven years old, you know, why would

780
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 5: this young woman be wanting you've been. They are so

781
00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 5: excited about the idea that there is someone who wants

782
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 5: to and there's a whole fantasy aspect that takes control.

783
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 5: And as your guests pointed out, I mean, you are

784
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 5: so embroiled in it and excited about the idea that

785
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 5: somebody loves you that it's very hard to be logical,

786
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,360
Speaker 5: which is what you're talking about.

787
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: You know, Karen Stark, I asked a illogical question, because

788
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 1: everybody on earth wants to be loved, whether they acknowledge

789
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 1: it or not. And when you think you found somebody

790
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: that loves you, you don't say, Wow, what's wrong with

791
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,040
Speaker 1: that person? Why would they love me? You think, oh,

792
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: my stars, I'm so lucky this person loves me. So

793
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: it's like screaming up and down I seventy five and

794
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: expecting the pavement to hear you. It's just you've got

795
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: to watch out for the red flags that we've heard

796
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: about and what Susan Constantine was explaining. I pray this

797
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: poor guy, this Holocaust survivor, gets his money back. We

798
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,