Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome to Access podcast, the podcast about podcasts. I'm
Speaker 1: Addie Stout. We are headed towards the Halloween season and
Speaker 1: I thought it'd be a great time to talk about
Speaker 1: a few creepy podcasts. And nobody does creepier podcast better
Speaker 1: than Max Cutler and the folks at podcast. They've given
Speaker 1: you such titles as serial Killers, Unsolved Murders, and their
Speaker 1: new show Cults. Let's check it out. Manson wasn't a
Speaker 1: serial killer. He didn't stab or strangle his victims like
Speaker 1: John Wayne Gacy. He was a cult leader charismatic enough
Speaker 1: to manipulate his followers into committing murder on his behalf.
Speaker 1: And it's Manson's role as a cult leader and his
Speaker 1: ability to commit murder by proxy that makes him so memorable.
Speaker 1: Joining me now, Max Cutler, co founder and president of Podcast,
Speaker 1: the Creepiest of podcast companies. I don't know if creepy
Speaker 1: is the right word, but but you do have a
Speaker 1: specific genre that that you focus on, uh a podcast? Yes,
Speaker 1: we do well, Thanks man for having me. We definitely
Speaker 1: are focused on true crime right now. Um, we're very
Speaker 1: much enjoying the true crime wave and capitalizing on it.
Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say, so, why do you
Speaker 1: think folks are so passionate and into true crime stories
Speaker 1: right now? Well, I think there's a lot of reasons
Speaker 1: right now. Um. Specifically one kind of our whole entire
Speaker 1: as a country, United States, the environment we're in. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of distrust going on, what is really happening?
Speaker 1: Do we really know what is really happening? In many cases? Um,
Speaker 1: So I think we're really tapping into that. I think also,
Speaker 1: quite frankly, true crime kind of caters to our most
Speaker 1: powerful emotion, which is um fear. Um. I think that
Speaker 1: could we be a victim of true crime? Are we
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what causes people to commit crimes?
Speaker 1: Is a very interesting and strong motivation for our listeners,
Speaker 1: I know, and the kind of psychology behind it. Um.
Speaker 1: I also think, you know, looking at it really closely,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of like a puzzle piece. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to understand what makes someone do that, what makes them tick.
Speaker 1: In our case, we have a show called serial Killers.
Speaker 1: We're we're looking to the psychology of what molded a
Speaker 1: serial killer. And every day, you know, we get tons
Speaker 1: of emails about people just trying to understand what makes
Speaker 1: a person commit such horrible crimes. And I think there's
Speaker 1: there's really kind of a you know, searching for the
Speaker 1: information that we find very interesting. Do you have a
Speaker 1: favorite serial killer? Um? You know, I I do not
Speaker 1: have a favorite serial killer. UM. I do find a
Speaker 1: lot of them extremely fascinating. From a story standpoint, I
Speaker 1: think that you know, looking at it, obviously, Ted Bunny
Speaker 1: is a huge serial killer. Everyone you know probably familiar
Speaker 1: with Ted Bunny by name. Um, and just kind of
Speaker 1: under you know, from a psychology standpoint, just understanding Ted
Speaker 1: Bunny from someone that's able to really interact with people
Speaker 1: and act really normal and then and then be able
Speaker 1: to flip a switch it turned off to become this
Speaker 1: horrible monster. Is it's really a fascinating case study. And
Speaker 1: that that case, you know, he's always fascinating me. Mind's
Speaker 1: gayzy just because I hate clar so I put John
Speaker 1: Wayne up there, but in general, so you know, one
Speaker 1: of the things I think that it makes your podcast
Speaker 1: stand out, and I think for a lot of the
Speaker 1: podcast that do well. And something I preach to my
Speaker 1: students who I teach at a university is that high
Speaker 1: quality production will always win and and and that is
Speaker 1: something that you your company in particular Partcast really takes
Speaker 1: great pride because your your productions are just so well done. Um.
Speaker 1: Talk about the time and effort that goes into an
Speaker 1: episode for one of your podcasts, because there's a lot
Speaker 1: of elements going on in there. Yeah, well, I mean,
Speaker 1: first off, production value is the king. That's the most
Speaker 1: important thing here at podcasts, and we spend a lot
Speaker 1: of time making sure we get it as right as possible. Um.
Speaker 1: For us, it's our number one differential statement. Quite frankly,
Speaker 1: there's over four thousand podcasts out there, not not all
Speaker 1: are active, but most of them do not put enough
Speaker 1: time or effort into production value, and that's something we
Speaker 1: take extremely seriously. Um. Depending on the show, we can
Speaker 1: spend up to thirty to forty hours on im producing
Speaker 1: a show. Uh an episode, Um, you know, Unsolved Murders,
Speaker 1: which is another show of ours, is a almost a
Speaker 1: modern take on old time radio where we have tons
Speaker 1: of voice actors, sound effects, multiple beds. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: our sound design and engineer is, in my opinion, the
Speaker 1: best in the business. And he, of course he's sitting
Speaker 1: right here, um he uh, he doesn't a phenomenal job
Speaker 1: at really piecing together each episode and telling the story. Um,
Speaker 1: because for us that podcast, the most important thing is
Speaker 1: storytelling and there's many ways to do that and bringing
Speaker 1: these stories to life. And so I mean besides from
Speaker 1: writing each script up going into sound effects, layering everything.
Speaker 1: It's it's a very complex process, but when we take
Speaker 1: very seriously. You know, one theme I get back to
Speaker 1: with the couple of the guests we've had on is
Speaker 1: is and you just said it is that that old
Speaker 1: time radio feel, you know, back when radio was radio drama.
Speaker 1: And I love that. That's where podcasting is taking radio.
Speaker 1: For me, I left, you know, when I left radio
Speaker 1: to get in podcasting was because I felt radio was
Speaker 1: getting away from kind of you know, a lot of
Speaker 1: the entertainment value that we to have on it and more.
Speaker 1: Just hey, talk for twenty seconds, Um, so I want
Speaker 1: it talked about your influence, how radio has influenced you
Speaker 1: and and your dad who has it was kind of
Speaker 1: he is legendary in the radio business. Um, so you've
Speaker 1: been around a long time. Yeah, no, it's uh, it's
Speaker 1: been a huge impact on my life. Um. Growing up
Speaker 1: in a radio household has probably why I started a podcast.
Speaker 1: And the first thing I did when I wanted to
Speaker 1: start podcast was get my dad out of retirement to
Speaker 1: be a consultant and co founder here with me, and
Speaker 1: he's you know, it's for me. I think it's weird
Speaker 1: to say it's great working with your dad, because so
Speaker 1: many people have horrible experiences, But for me, it's the
Speaker 1: best thing that I you know, that I'm able to do.
Speaker 1: He UM. For the people don't know, my dad was
Speaker 1: in radio for most of his life. He started off
Speaker 1: as a disc jockey and then ended up UM becoming
Speaker 1: a very you know, lucky to create many top radio
Speaker 1: shows that he produced, as well as Color Productions and
Speaker 1: Color Commy Networks, UM. And so having that background, there's
Speaker 1: there's definitely something growing up in a household where creativity
Speaker 1: is king, and living in radio and audio is just inspiring.
Speaker 1: And I think that both of us agreed when we
Speaker 1: you know, when we started this about eighteen months ago,
Speaker 1: now that unfortunately Radio UM and it's mixed feelings for us,
Speaker 1: Radio is kind of going downhill in many ways on
Speaker 1: the content side, and we really wanted to bring it
Speaker 1: back to a great storytelling, great narrative podcast and we
Speaker 1: think we've we've done that in the content. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's had a profound impact on me and everything we
Speaker 1: do here. It's part of my job is I work
Speaker 1: as a digital program director in San Francisco, and our
Speaker 1: jocks have been retraining themselves and learning podcasting and getting
Speaker 1: back to that storytelling and they're really embracing it. And
Speaker 1: I see us as a radio company and I heart
Speaker 1: we're producing some really good podcast content. But you know,
Speaker 1: some of the older radio folks still kind of kick
Speaker 1: and scream and they don't understand it. They don't want
Speaker 1: to be a part of it. How was that transition
Speaker 1: for your dad when you talk to him about podcasting?
Speaker 1: Was he embracing it right away or or was he
Speaker 1: one of the a little bit of a hold out
Speaker 1: at all. Well, I think for my dad there's mixed emotions. One,
Speaker 1: he embraced it right away because he saw the potential.
Speaker 1: He saw that the need for quite family to connect
Speaker 1: with an audience that was not happening up in radio
Speaker 1: any anymore. So he loved that aspect of it. But
Speaker 1: of course he grew up in radio. Radio is a
Speaker 1: huge part of his life. Um, And so for him,
Speaker 1: I know it's mixed emotions that he feels that radio
Speaker 1: has really gone downhill in the quality of it. Um,
Speaker 1: and he wishes it was, you know, still there because
Speaker 1: it really did have a huge impact on his life.
Speaker 1: But now in the podcast space, it's a huge potential.
Speaker 1: It is the future. UM, you know, I know, it's
Speaker 1: a fact. He talked two people in radio. They're they're
Speaker 1: starting to embrace the podcasting spaces you just mentioned, and
Speaker 1: those that aren't embracing the podcast space will start embracing
Speaker 1: the podcast space. Um. The numbers are just there. I mean,
Speaker 1: the last year alone, we grew I know, we have
Speaker 1: sixties seven million monthly listeners. We have, you know, revenue
Speaker 1: increased by five percent over year over a year, which
Speaker 1: is the most crucial thing for radio. Um. Obviously we're
Speaker 1: still nowhere near where radio is on the advertising dollar side.
Speaker 1: But with that being said, I mean, podcasting is the future.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you look at it from a just
Speaker 1: a granular perspective, audio is really the last media that
Speaker 1: hasn't gone on demand televisions on a man, films on
Speaker 1: too many of the Netflix is of the world, Amazon's,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Audio really hasn't and in many ways, podcasting
Speaker 1: is that. And as you have more and more companies,
Speaker 1: whether it be obviously Apple podcast now is really starting
Speaker 1: to gear up and take it more seriously. Um, Tune
Speaker 1: in Radio is taking it seriously. Stitcher, where I know
Speaker 1: you're very familiar with, is taking it seriously. So it's
Speaker 1: very interesting. Um. And of course our hearts taking it seriously,
Speaker 1: which is which is great news. UM. So we'll see,
Speaker 1: you know, what happens in the future. But you know,
Speaker 1: in all honesty, you need to start embracing the podcast
Speaker 1: space because it is going to be the future in radio.
Speaker 1: We tend to deal with stalkers, fans, people to get
Speaker 1: a little too obsessed with our with our programs and ourselves.
Speaker 1: I know I've had a few with the kind of
Speaker 1: podcast that you do. Are there any folks that you
Speaker 1: know that are that you have to you know, deal
Speaker 1: with on this. Are there people that want to correct
Speaker 1: you and tell you different things or give you theories?
Speaker 1: How is that interaction? Yeah, of course, um there. You know,
Speaker 1: it varies on the show in terms of how much interaction,
Speaker 1: but every show has interaction and we love it. It's
Speaker 1: a you know, the great thing about podcasting is it's
Speaker 1: really a conversation. It's not us telling them and we
Speaker 1: want them to be involved with our programming. It shows
Speaker 1: that they really care and they listen, and so we
Speaker 1: have people every day emailing us, whether about a theory,
Speaker 1: if it's an unsolved murder episode, maybe who did it?
Speaker 1: Who done it? You know, it is very common for us. UM.
Speaker 1: We just launched a new show called Cults, and that
Speaker 1: show has done amazing for us, and UM the feedback
Speaker 1: has been so positive and people trying to understand and
Speaker 1: have their own theories of maybe why you know, Charles
Speaker 1: Manson was the way he was for example. UM. We also,
Speaker 1: of course get criticism from time to time. UM, maybe
Speaker 1: a host spoke to quickly, maybe they thought that, um,
Speaker 1: we could have presented the information a different way, et cetera.
Speaker 1: But these are all great conversations and it just shows
Speaker 1: again how engaged the podcast community is. Just like radio
Speaker 1: quite frankly, when you have a great, great disc jockey.
Speaker 1: So it's very similar in that regard. But I do think,
Speaker 1: you know, podcasting in general is a very intimate experience UM,
Speaker 1: and our listeners, I know, developer relationship with our hosts.
Speaker 1: We want them to develop a relationship with our host
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day if they feel
Speaker 1: like they know the host, they feel like they know um,
Speaker 1: they interact that much strongly and build up so much
Speaker 1: more of a connection that content. I want to talk
Speaker 1: about the new podcast Cults, which you can find on
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Why Cults? Why did you get into that?
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I got super into the Manson series
Speaker 1: and I just think that it's it's It's to me
Speaker 1: always say good podcast is like reading a book, and
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm in it. So I'm really into the
Speaker 1: new Cults podcast. Why did you guys choose that? Thank you? Yeah,
Speaker 1: this was something that I want to do for a while. Um,
Speaker 1: I felt that, you know, we've been really heavily in
Speaker 1: true crime, but we need to slowly kind of embrace
Speaker 1: where true crime is going. And I think this is
Speaker 1: the next logical step. I think if you just talk
Speaker 1: to somebody and mentioned Charles Manson, the Family or any coal,
Speaker 1: it's amazing how they just perk up and get excited
Speaker 1: to talk about it, Like what makes them join the colt?
Speaker 1: How did they get mind washed? And for us, that
Speaker 1: was really what we wanted to answer, is the psychological
Speaker 1: how does somebody in the case of Charles Manson, for example,
Speaker 1: manipulate all these people to create murder by proxy in
Speaker 1: his situation, but just to join a cult. And you know,
Speaker 1: for him, he wasn't a very um popular person growing up.
Speaker 1: He had to you know, and he yet he was
Speaker 1: able to control all these people. And it's a very
Speaker 1: interesting study. And also of course for us, it does
Speaker 1: have the true crime element to it, which is important
Speaker 1: to keep our brand identity there, but it also is
Speaker 1: kind of logically getting us a little away from from
Speaker 1: the traditional true crime which we want to do. You know,
Speaker 1: we never want to chase the next year. That was
Speaker 1: something we're never going to do a podcast, and that
Speaker 1: something we never will do. Um. We want to present
Speaker 1: content in a different way, more of a storytelling and
Speaker 1: entertaining way, an informative way, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: Colts is apparently really really really accomplishing that right now.
Speaker 1: And the timing is also really good as far as
Speaker 1: American hor Story to win cults as well. So between
Speaker 1: American horse Story and your podcast, I've already got some
Speaker 1: folks lined up to join my cult and hopefully maybe
Speaker 1: in a couple of years will be to want to
Speaker 1: show about me. That's great. I hope. So they're they're
Speaker 1: called a podcast producers. My producers looking at me side
Speaker 1: died right now. No, that's not gonna work. Um, this
Speaker 1: might be a question, you know, for you or you know,
Speaker 1: maybe if you've talked to any of your producers while
Speaker 1: they're doing these shows. You know, Stephen King once I
Speaker 1: read an article about when he was writing the book
Speaker 1: The Shining he would be in the middle of writing
Speaker 1: and kind of gets freaked out and stop writing and
Speaker 1: have to like go downstairs and be around people because
Speaker 1: he's kind of scaring himself. Um. Do you ever find yourself,
Speaker 1: you know, in the middle of you know, working on
Speaker 1: a podcast getting creeped out and a little freaked out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeahtual, it's funny being that up. So yeah, this week,
Speaker 1: actually we have a new podcast coming out called Haunted Places. Um,
Speaker 1: and I was reading the script at nighttime and I
Speaker 1: was the only one in the office here, and it
Speaker 1: got to a point where I had to take a
Speaker 1: break and just be like, Okay, this is this is
Speaker 1: you know, this is not really happening. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that we do have times where we um
Speaker 1: have to take a step back from it. I don't
Speaker 1: think we necessarily have ever gotten freak freaked out in
Speaker 1: the studio. Could be wrong, but I know we have
Speaker 1: very disturbing moments when um, we have to ask ourselves,
Speaker 1: quite honestly, should we be even you know how how
Speaker 1: much we want to delve into this in the details. Um,
Speaker 1: But and and the end of the day, you know
Speaker 1: it's um, we really haven't had any situations that we
Speaker 1: got scared by our content. I've got a segment that
Speaker 1: we're gonna do right now we do with every guest
Speaker 1: that's called three Killer Questions. And again I didn't name
Speaker 1: it special for you. It's always three Killer questions. But
Speaker 1: I am changing the first question. Normally I would ask you,
Speaker 1: if you were a sandwich, what kind of sandwich would
Speaker 1: you be? But instead for you for Halloween, for podcast,
Speaker 1: if you were a serial killer? Which one would you be?
Speaker 1: What kind of serial killer would you be? What kind
Speaker 1: of serial killer would I be? A name or a
Speaker 1: more of it? A general A genre of serial killer,
Speaker 1: ax X guy, poisoner. I don't know. I think I
Speaker 1: think I'd have to be more of a poison a
Speaker 1: poison er just because you know I don't do well
Speaker 1: with blood. To be honest, with you and so, And
Speaker 1: also I think you can probably get away with the
Speaker 1: crime a little it better if you're not there. But
Speaker 1: I've never never thought about that before. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: definitely definitely a poison or something something a little away
Speaker 1: from the crime scene. So don't you have to see
Speaker 1: the person person? All right? Max Cutler? What technology in
Speaker 1: your life? Did you stop and go? This changed my life?
Speaker 1: The first one? Oh n'ten sixty four? That was easy though,
Speaker 1: without question, I'll never forget that happened. Yeah, I can
Speaker 1: always tell the age of who I'm interviewing with that
Speaker 1: question because depending on the technology that they pick out.
Speaker 1: And the last question is what's the last podcast that
Speaker 1: you binged? Oh s Town. I loved that podcast. It's
Speaker 1: just reminding me I'm from West Virginia. Self was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I know that guy. Yeah, yeah, that's it's a phenomenal.
Speaker 1: They did a phenomenal job with that podcast. Absolutely, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: they It's it when you hear podcasts like that, it's
Speaker 1: it's inspiring. Um and uh yeah, it's really I'm glad.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you liked that one too. You can
Speaker 1: learn so much from them. Quite honestly, we learned a
Speaker 1: lot from them. Um, it's it's great. It's just phenomenal
Speaker 1: from both the storytelling element just from a production call.
Speaker 1: It's just absolutely phenomenal. I do branded content podcasts and
Speaker 1: I I'm pretty much just hawk things that Gimblet have
Speaker 1: done because I like all this stuff. Gimblet does so
Speaker 1: much with us a great job, and they obviously have
Speaker 1: a great branded branded for branded UH firm over there
Speaker 1: as well that they're doing some really great stuff. Well, Max,
Speaker 1: this has been fun. Um, you can can you can
Speaker 1: check out all the shows at podcast Network, but you
Speaker 1: can also find them all on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: including the new one Cults, So go check that out. Uh, Max,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on. And anyone who
Speaker 1: works with Max, watch what you're eating might be sliding
Speaker 1: something in there today. That's great. Thank you Matt for
Speaker 1: having so a little behind the scenes there with Max Cutler.
Speaker 1: You know, I just thought of the see I should
Speaker 1: have asked him what was the scary story that made
Speaker 1: him scared when he was you know, sit get scared
Speaker 1: in his office. But we'll hear it probably in their
Speaker 1: new podcast Haunted Places. Oh my gosh, look at that
Speaker 1: you're learning. Look at her look at the radio plug
Speaker 1: going all right, Z is in the studio. That means
Speaker 1: we are going to find out about three podcasts that
Speaker 1: you can listen to right now that are in the
Speaker 1: true crime genres that we're looking at this week. Alright,
Speaker 1: so hit me up. What do you got this week?
Speaker 1: First one is Sword and Scale. My roommate actually told
Speaker 1: me about this one, and it's really cool. It's very like.
Speaker 1: They cover the dark underworld of crime, murders, abductions, bizarre
Speaker 1: crimes and stuff like that. I like it because they
Speaker 1: have interviews with the victims and even the perpetrators. It's
Speaker 1: like nine one one calls really interesting. Oh, let's listen.
Speaker 1: That is why when a mother's love is not present,
Speaker 1: the results can be disastrous. Take for example, a man
Speaker 1: by the name of Ed. Her mother was sick, angry, hungry,
Speaker 1: and very sad woman. I hated her, but I wanted
Speaker 1: to love my mother. That sounds very well produced. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like well produced stuff. Thank you. I don't know
Speaker 1: about that one at all. Um, gosh, Okay, that's added
Speaker 1: to the list the five list of podcasts I must
Speaker 1: listen to. All right, what else you got? The next
Speaker 1: one is true Crime slash comedy, it's my Favorite murder.
Speaker 1: It's two girls named Karen and Georgia and their two
Speaker 1: friends and they talk about their favorite murderer from John Bennett.
Speaker 1: It's so funny, but they do it really respectfully and
Speaker 1: it's really well researched. They know what they're talking about.
Speaker 1: And UM, I really like it because they always end
Speaker 1: their show would stay sexy and don't get murdered. Super funny.
Speaker 1: This is a podcast that's getting a lot of buzz
Speaker 1: that again, due to my schedule, haven't had time to
Speaker 1: listen to. So let's check out a little bit right now.
Speaker 1: We do not condone math on this part, not no way.
Speaker 1: We don't condone murder either, even for our own entertainment.
Speaker 1: Were against it. Do you want to discuss it though?
Speaker 1: We do. Um, but if you guys murder someone and
Speaker 1: like you blame it on my favorite murder, we will
Speaker 1: not talk about it. Let's just agree that right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you won't get famous on that. No, we will not
Speaker 1: talk about it. That's good. We should have said that
Speaker 1: at the beginning. You know what I think about that
Speaker 1: podcast is that if I asked them the question if
Speaker 1: you were serial killer, who would you be, they would
Speaker 1: have an answer right away. They probably have a list
Speaker 1: of them. How about you let me ask you that question,
Speaker 1: if you were a serial killer, what kind of serial
Speaker 1: killer would you be? I I mean, I want to
Speaker 1: say poison. Isn't that like? Isn't that like? Ladies answer, Well,
Speaker 1: that was max answer. But I think that's a yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think people were scared to let me
Speaker 1: to kind of embrace that. Okay, you know, in a
Speaker 1: world where there are no you know, no repercussions and
Speaker 1: you know, and I know you don't really want to
Speaker 1: be one. No, I mean, no, no know. But I
Speaker 1: think I like the Dexter method. He's super methodical. He
Speaker 1: drains the blood and he's very scientific about it. I'd
Speaker 1: like to think that I would be super clean. And
Speaker 1: I think that's see, that's a real answer. I like that.
Speaker 1: Al Right, next one, let's yeah, let's talk about the
Speaker 1: next one. I think you're gonna be familiar with this.
Speaker 1: Um it's called Criminal. I love this podcast. I love Phoebe.
Speaker 1: I love I can listen to Phoebe for a long
Speaker 1: long periods of time. In fact, I recommended this podcast
Speaker 1: to a student who was trying to do a true
Speaker 1: crime podcast, and he came back and he had over
Speaker 1: the weekend and listened to I think forty episodes and
Speaker 1: they have a lot. Yeah. Yeah. He just kind of
Speaker 1: binged them all weekend because he can binge this podcast.
Speaker 1: And I like it because it's not crimes that you
Speaker 1: really hear about, right, Like, they're very unpopular ones, but
Speaker 1: they are so well researched and journalistic because Phoebe is
Speaker 1: an award winning journalist. She is, and um, so I
Speaker 1: really really liked them. Let's listen to some. And then
Speaker 1: George Lee Lennox was found dead. They found his body
Speaker 1: slumped over in his gold Cadillac. The car was full
Speaker 1: of blood. He'd been shotting the head two times. A
Speaker 1: man came forward and confessed that he had been paid
Speaker 1: fifteen thousand dollars to kill George Lee Lennox along with
Speaker 1: two accomplices. The shooters identified themselves as members of the
Speaker 1: so called Dixie Mafia, and it was widely speculated that
Speaker 1: the reason the Dixie Mafia wanted George Lee Lennox dead
Speaker 1: was because George Lee Lennox had a problem with Tennessee
Speaker 1: walking horse tradition. Can I tell you a little secret?
Speaker 1: She is actually coming on this show, and I'm so excited.
Speaker 1: What Yes, Total Fake radio's the producer. She already booked
Speaker 1: her anyway, a little little behind the scenes every Yeah,
Speaker 1: So Phoebe's gonna come on. I'm always very I'm not
Speaker 1: comfortable enough with my interviewing skills to interview a real
Speaker 1: journalist and not feel like they're judging me. I think
Speaker 1: we'll do well. I hope. So I'm nervous she's Uh.
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan. I'm a big fan Phoebe. So
Speaker 1: Z that was fun, good suggestions. Thank you. I'm learning
Speaker 1: you're getting getting good at this. Uh and uh yeah.
Speaker 1: Besides Phoebe, We've got lots of other guests coming up
Speaker 1: in the next few weeks that I can't tell you
Speaker 1: about yet because we're still nailing down folks. But if
Speaker 1: you like podcasts and you like this show, it's only
Speaker 1: going to get better. I promise We've got lots coming
Speaker 1: up on there. Well, that's gonna do it. Episode three
Speaker 1: is in the can Access podcast is produced by the
Speaker 1: one and only zy Zionya Elvis. Zionya d Elvis is
Speaker 1: in the Building where I did I Got It? Artwork
Speaker 1: by Dalton Runberg Music composed by Casey Franco. Special thanks
Speaker 1: to Chris Peterson, Don Parker and Katie Wilcox and I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Follow us on Facebook, we are Access Podcast.
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