Speaker 1: Welcome to the Pikedon Massacre, a production of iHeartRadio and
Speaker 1: Katie's Studios, Episode eight, Truth Be Revealed. Over the course
Speaker 1: of seven episodes, we have examined the details of the
Speaker 1: murders of eight members of the Rodent family, the investigation
Speaker 1: that was launched in their wake, and what led up
Speaker 1: to the arrests of six members of the Wagner family.
Speaker 1: Now we're going to look at where the case stands
Speaker 1: and what lies ahead next week's episode, Burning Questions. I'm
Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with Stephanie
Speaker 1: Leidecker and Jeff Shane. When we left off last week,
Speaker 1: it was June twenty sixth, twenty nineteen, and Frederica Wagner
Speaker 1: was in the defendant's chair in a Pike County courtroom.
Speaker 1: She was facing charges of obstruction of justice and perjury
Speaker 1: and connection with the Rodent murders. Here's Frederica's niece Deray
Speaker 1: defending her aunt's claims.
Speaker 2: First, the prosecutors falsely believed the bulletproof best were purchased
Speaker 2: before the road and homicides. Both sides know that it
Speaker 2: is not true. They were in fact purchased on May
Speaker 2: the seventh, twenty sixteen, fifteen days after the date of
Speaker 2: the road homicides.
Speaker 3: So that's proven. We know that there's like receipts, right.
Speaker 4: Yep, got receipts. We have everything.
Speaker 2: Second, she guessed and thought that she bought them from Amazon.
Speaker 2: Now why they made a big deal about what what origin?
Speaker 4: They came off the internet? She ordered them off the internet.
Speaker 2: Whenever you go on the Internet, a bunch of places
Speaker 2: come up. Usually Amazon's the first thing that comes up.
Speaker 2: She did that a lot, but they made a big
Speaker 2: deal about it. So they went back through her books
Speaker 2: and they found out that she did buy them, but
Speaker 2: it wasn't from Amazon, it was eBay.
Speaker 1: But criminal defense attorney Mike Allen told Jeff that Frederica's
Speaker 1: statements are a much bigger deal than deraythe.
Speaker 5: Well, obviously, when you have a situation like this and
Speaker 5: someone involved with the people that are charged makes a
Speaker 5: purchase of two bulletproof vests, whether it's from eBay or Amazon,
Speaker 5: it's something that the prosecution would be interested in. And
Speaker 5: you know, she apparently was before the grand jury when
Speaker 5: she misrepresented, if you will, where she bought these things from.
Speaker 5: And it's relevant and also too. I think it would
Speaker 5: be fair to say that the prosecution probably wanted this
Speaker 5: put on of these charges put on her to have
Speaker 5: a little bit of leverage with her too.
Speaker 3: Do you think that her explanation of just saying, oh,
Speaker 3: I don't remember, I got it confused as an attorney,
Speaker 3: do you think that makes someone look more guilty?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it does, especially something like this. And I know
Speaker 5: she's elderly, but she certainly seems like she's pretty sharp.
Speaker 5: But it's a rather big event. In most people's lives,
Speaker 5: if they purchase bulletproof vests online or any you purchased them,
Speaker 5: you would think that you would remember where you purchased
Speaker 5: them from. So yeah, it doesn't make her look good
Speaker 5: at all.
Speaker 1: Ultimately, Frederica Wagner's lawyer filed receipts that proved she made
Speaker 1: the purchases fifteen days after the slayings. This led the
Speaker 1: defense team to turn over potential evidence as required to
Speaker 1: the prosecution, too late to meet the criteria for a
Speaker 1: speedy trial. They dismissed the charges against Frederica Wagner, while
Speaker 1: reserving the right to charge her again. Mike Allen broke
Speaker 1: down what all this means.
Speaker 5: With respect to the Ohio Speedy Trial Statute. It's generally
Speaker 5: you have to bring a felony case within two hundred
Speaker 5: and seventy days from the indictment. I think the prosecution
Speaker 5: was running out of time, so strategically, I think they
Speaker 5: decided to dismiss it with the option and the right
Speaker 5: to refile it again if that becomes necessary.
Speaker 3: So so you can get charged with the same crimes again.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, they were dismissed without prejudice, which means that
Speaker 5: the state can refile them at a later date.
Speaker 1: But it seems that Frederica Wagner doesn't foresee that happening. Here.
Speaker 1: She is speaking to the press after the.
Speaker 6: Hearing, Trusting the Lord with all your heart, lean not
Speaker 6: to your own understanding in all your ways, Acknowledge him
Speaker 6: and he will direct your path. And as my attorney
Speaker 6: will tell you, it was dismissed.
Speaker 4: Because I was innocent.
Speaker 6: They had no evidence against me. I never lied about anything.
Speaker 1: Frederica Wagner's freedom validates what Deray has believed all along.
Speaker 2: She has never in her life done anything wrong.
Speaker 4: She's not capable of it.
Speaker 2: And you know, if she thought that her kids would
Speaker 2: have done something bad, she would have recommended.
Speaker 4: That they turn themselves in for anything.
Speaker 2: I mean, she loves. She lives by what she says
Speaker 2: she lives by, which is what well. She gives all
Speaker 2: the glory to God.
Speaker 1: Angela, Billy Jake, and George Wagner were charged with aggravated murder.
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner's mother, Rita jo Nucom and Billy Wagner's mother,
Speaker 1: Frederica were both charged with obstruction of justice and perjury.
Speaker 1: Newcomb was also charged with forgery. All six of them
Speaker 1: pled not guilty, and our justice system presumes innocence until
Speaker 1: guilt is proven. But one thing that doesn't help Frederica
Speaker 1: Wagner's case is a revelation by the prosecution at a
Speaker 1: pre trial hearing for her son Billy in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: the state submitted evidence showing that the night before Frederica
Speaker 1: testified before the grand jury in twenty eighteen, she had
Speaker 1: searched the Internet for information about penalties for perjury. Here's
Speaker 1: our anonymous Wagner family relative. She shared her thoughts with Jeff.
Speaker 3: Do you think that his mom, Billy's mom, Frederica, do
Speaker 3: you think she had any involvement?
Speaker 7: I believe that. I believe she could have yeah, I
Speaker 7: believe that she definitely, Uh, I don't believe she tried
Speaker 7: to stop it, you know, I don't believe that she.
Speaker 7: I believe that anything. She probably definely she would have
Speaker 7: encouraged it and her storry to do.
Speaker 8: What he did.
Speaker 1: Others like Rodent family friend Stephanne thinks that Frederica wasn't
Speaker 1: just involved in the murders, but could possibly have orchestrated
Speaker 1: the whole thing.
Speaker 9: I don't take her for a dumb woman at all.
Speaker 9: She's a business woman. She's probably shrewd. She's the head
Speaker 9: the monarch, you know, so the monarch is usually the
Speaker 9: one that has their thumb on everybody. She wanted to
Speaker 9: control over everything, seems to me.
Speaker 1: Like to investigative journalist Jodi Barr, the alleged involvement of
Speaker 1: Frederica Wagner up ends conventions of who actually could be
Speaker 1: capable of being involved in murder.
Speaker 10: I think this case, if it ended today as it
Speaker 10: is alleged, I don't think there is anybody on this
Speaker 10: planet that can look at those people and say, those
Speaker 10: people look like a family who could slaughter eight human beings.
Speaker 10: If you ever thought you knew what a mass murderer
Speaker 10: looked like, I think this case in Pike County is
Speaker 10: showing you you have no idea.
Speaker 1: So here we are four years later. Two of the
Speaker 1: six defendants are free and four others are in prison
Speaker 1: facing death penalty charges, accused of killing eight members of
Speaker 1: the Rodent family. Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.
Speaker 11: As it stands now, the trials for Billy, Angela, Jake,
Speaker 11: and George Wagner are slated to begin in the next
Speaker 11: few months. Now I really understand this case and where
Speaker 11: it stands and what's to come, we'll have to examine
Speaker 11: some of the most important points. In the five thousand
Speaker 11: pages of discovery documents that list the prosecution's evidence, there
Speaker 11: are more than three hundred and thirty two thousand files
Speaker 11: of evidence in this case.
Speaker 3: One of the exhibits in the prosecution's arsenal is related
Speaker 3: to Billy Wagner in his copy of the nineteen ninety
Speaker 3: nine movie The Boondock Saints. The film is about two
Speaker 3: brothers in Boston who exacted a form of vigilanty justice
Speaker 3: by murdering mobsters and other criminals. It's extremely violent and
Speaker 3: over the top, but the big takeaway for this case
Speaker 3: is that the brothers in the film use silencers on
Speaker 3: their guns, a method that members of the Wagner family
Speaker 3: are accused of using to execute the Rodents. As we
Speaker 3: covered in the last episode, a homemade silencer was discovered
Speaker 3: at a farm once owned by Jake and George Wagner,
Speaker 3: but Deray thinks the connection is tenuous at best.
Speaker 2: I read that and I had to laugh. I had
Speaker 2: to laugh so hard. Okay, so you have to remember
Speaker 2: that this was a very organized, brilliantly done execution. This
Speaker 2: is something that you wouldn't learn.
Speaker 4: On a DVD.
Speaker 2: Somebody with military background, Navy seals. I mean, whoever did
Speaker 2: it was brilliant.
Speaker 5: They're professional.
Speaker 2: These people are not professional killers.
Speaker 1: Mike Allen told Jeff that the DVD could be a
Speaker 1: building block in the state's case.
Speaker 3: You can't watch a movie and learn how to wipe
Speaker 3: out an entire family. That seems like a stretch. What
Speaker 3: is your take on that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think they could introduce it for the
Speaker 5: proposition that that's how the Wagners learned how to do that.
Speaker 5: I think if the state introduced it or attempted to
Speaker 5: get it introduced, it would just be kind of peripheral
Speaker 5: to like Hey, you know somebody in that family watched
Speaker 5: that movie or ordered that movie or bought that movie,
Speaker 5: and it's a movie about vigil anti justice. But I
Speaker 5: would certainly try at least because apparently in this case,
Speaker 5: the allegation is silencers were used, and they were used
Speaker 5: in that movie as well, So it would be one
Speaker 5: piece of evidence that they could add on to other evidence.
Speaker 5: It would be a piece of evidence if admitted, that
Speaker 5: they could talk about in closing arguments. So, while not
Speaker 5: determinative in any way, shape or form, it is evidence
Speaker 5: that could be helpful to the state.
Speaker 1: There's a mountain of other evidence. The prosecution plans on
Speaker 1: using one that stands out as an Excel spreadsheet that
Speaker 1: contains five hundred and nineteen entries of messages about child custody.
Speaker 1: I spoke with my Gallon about it. Another piece of
Speaker 1: evidence that's been talked about are these Excel spreadsheets. Apparently
Speaker 1: they had hundreds of entries of cataloging the messages about
Speaker 1: child custody and Facebook screenshots. Regarding it, what does that tell.
Speaker 5: You, Well, it tells me that could be part of
Speaker 5: the motive in this case, and it's pretty strong evidence
Speaker 5: motive if they're keeping all these things in screenshots, and
Speaker 5: it seems that they were kind of obsessed with his
Speaker 5: desire to get custody and control. That would be circumstantial,
Speaker 5: but in circumstantial evidence sometimes can be very strong evidence.
Speaker 5: Just because evidence is circumstantial doesn't mean that it's not
Speaker 5: good evidence and strong evidence. But you know, it's like
Speaker 5: you're dropping, you know, pebbles into a pond. Every little
Speaker 5: pebble makes a ripple, and you know, you build on
Speaker 5: those things, and at the end of the day, if
Speaker 5: the prosecution does it right, every little bit helps with
Speaker 5: respect to building a case.
Speaker 1: The discovery documents also include information about a person that
Speaker 1: some speculator could be an informant Jody Barr told us
Speaker 1: about trying to track down this source. The name of
Speaker 1: the informant has not been published, which is why it's
Speaker 1: bleeped in his interview.
Speaker 10: Only thing I know is that was a name given
Speaker 10: very early on who I was told did business with
Speaker 10: Chris Rodin. I was never able to even find that
Speaker 10: this person exists.
Speaker 4: I guess they did. This person really does exist. But
Speaker 4: when I was given a list of names.
Speaker 10: Of people who could have potentially either been involved in
Speaker 10: this knew about this This is one person I tried
Speaker 10: to track down and find over in Sciota County, which
Speaker 10: is just across the line from Pike, and I was
Speaker 10: never able to find this person.
Speaker 4: But I was told that this person knew Chris Senior.
Speaker 10: It's me as far as you know, they were together
Speaker 10: a lot, and they were in some business ventures together.
Speaker 10: But again I was never able to find this person
Speaker 10: or to verify anything that was ever told me about them.
Speaker 1: Prosecutors for the case claim another confidential informant told them
Speaker 1: of a specific meeting at Frederica Wagner's home. It occurred
Speaker 1: with the other accused family members and allegedly included talk
Speaker 1: of quote taking revenge on a special agent then Attorney
Speaker 1: General Mike DeWine and Pike County Sheriff Charles Reader. The
Speaker 1: revengel was allegedly planned if her family was arrested. Jody
Speaker 1: Barr dissected these claims with Jeff.
Speaker 10: It just seems so careless that the people accused of
Speaker 10: this would be bringing outsiders into a home, although we
Speaker 10: don't know who the confidential informant is, but that they
Speaker 10: would risk getting caught if they were so skillful in
Speaker 10: pulling this off that they would bring outsiders in to
Speaker 10: have discussions like this where they're number one admitting it essentially,
Speaker 10: But secondly, you're talking about taking hits out on the
Speaker 10: chief law enforcer in Pike County and the chief law
Speaker 10: enforcement for the state of Ohio.
Speaker 3: But that's an interesting point that it doesn't really compute
Speaker 3: that if they were like Ninja's and they could do
Speaker 3: this elaborate crime, why would they be so sloppy then
Speaker 3: to have these conversations with other people.
Speaker 10: When I see confidential informant in this sentence, man, a
Speaker 10: part of me goes, I wonder if one of the
Speaker 10: Wagners has rolled over and is helping this investigations still
Speaker 10: something I know there have been some plea deals already
Speaker 10: made here, some charges dismissed.
Speaker 4: But you've got to wonder who.
Speaker 10: Is this informant, because if it's a member of the
Speaker 10: Wagner family, and I think that's a twist no one
Speaker 10: saw coming.
Speaker 1: Let's stop here for a quick commercial break. We'll be
Speaker 1: back in a moment. The discovery documents also have twenty
Speaker 1: nine and eighteen pages related to DNA evidence. Mike Allen
Speaker 1: spoke to us about the role of DNA could play
Speaker 1: in the case.
Speaker 5: I can tell you from dealing with DNA evidence, both
Speaker 5: as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney, that's not
Speaker 5: good news for the defense. If they've got almost three
Speaker 5: thousand pages of DNA evidence, evidence that would have been
Speaker 5: sent to the lab and comes back, they've got to
Speaker 5: have something. I mean, I would be shocked if they
Speaker 5: didn't have some credible DNA evidence against at least one
Speaker 5: of these defendants, probably more of them. That's bad news
Speaker 5: for the defense. There's just no way of getting around it.
Speaker 5: Because DNA evidence, if extracted properly and analyzed properly, it's
Speaker 5: pretty much lights out if they did it correctly. So
Speaker 5: I think that's problematic for the defense.
Speaker 1: Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.
Speaker 11: In addition, the report also lists and seventy crime scene photos,
Speaker 11: cyber forensic reports of the Wagners, their cell phones and
Speaker 11: their computers, and hundreds of pages citing reference to the
Speaker 11: recovery of firearms and ballistic testing. In fact, at the
Speaker 11: pre trial hearing for George Wagner just a few weeks ago,
Speaker 11: we got a glimpse into some of the evidence they have.
Speaker 11: So this hearing was for emotion. The defense was making
Speaker 11: to get George Wagner, the eldest son, released from prison
Speaker 11: on bond. In response, the prosecution laid out some of
Speaker 11: the evidence they have against George Wagner, basically as an
Speaker 11: argument to keep George behind bars. One of the lead
Speaker 11: detectives on the case testified that he and his team
Speaker 11: have real ballistic evidence connecting firearms used in the homicides
Speaker 11: with guns believed to be owned by the Wagners, including
Speaker 11: a twenty two caliber long rifle, a forty caliber handgun,
Speaker 11: and a thirty caliber gun. Prosecutors also pointed to evidence
Speaker 11: that shoe prints from the exact same shoes purchased at
Speaker 11: Walmart by the Wagners to allegedly frame Dana Rodin's brother,
Speaker 11: you remember, James Manly, were found in dried blood at
Speaker 11: two of the crime scenes. And get this, In fact,
Speaker 11: receipts for those exact same shoes, they're a very specific
Speaker 11: Walmart athletic shoe were found during a search of Wagner
Speaker 11: property in twenty sixteen. There are also over eight thousand
Speaker 11: recorded statements from interviews with George Wagner, who claimed there
Speaker 11: really was no issue regarding custody between Jake Wagner and
Speaker 11: Hannah Rodin over their daughter Sophia, and that we know
Speaker 11: is just not true.
Speaker 3: Right. So with all of this, the Wagners still continued
Speaker 3: to declare their innocence. Is it really possible that they did,
Speaker 3: in fact have nothing to do with it? Well, recently
Speaker 3: one of the Wagner's lawyers made statements to the press
Speaker 3: saying that a loose custody arrangement between Jake Wagner and
Speaker 3: Hannah fur their daughter Sophia, was being formalized by another
Speaker 3: attorney in Ohio at the time of the killings, but
Speaker 3: due to the fact that Hannah was murdered, the agreement
Speaker 3: was never formalized, so it's not permissible in court. I
Speaker 3: spoke with Deray about her second cousin, Jake Wagner, to
Speaker 3: see if we could get any more information on the
Speaker 3: custody arrangement between him and Hannah Rodin. Do you know
Speaker 3: anything about like they were trying to get custody of
Speaker 3: Sophia before the murders.
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about that.
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, I was just curious, Yeah, because you hear
Speaker 3: a lot of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never heard, you know, I talked to my
Speaker 2: antalot that was never mentioned.
Speaker 3: So do you think that that is fabricated as well?
Speaker 2: If I'm hearing you right, I don't believe that it
Speaker 2: has anything.
Speaker 5: To do with it.
Speaker 4: I don't believe there was a custody battle. I think
Speaker 4: that's another made up lie.
Speaker 3: What makes you say that because.
Speaker 2: I never heard anything about it. I mean, somebody did it,
Speaker 2: but we don't know who, and we're for sure it
Speaker 2: wasn't the Wagner family.
Speaker 4: It's a tragedy, and most.
Speaker 2: Of the people that I talked to, they're all thinking
Speaker 2: it's drug related, something that had to do with drug trafficking.
Speaker 2: We don't know. It's who knows.
Speaker 4: It's a mystery.
Speaker 1: We found it strange for a woman who covers her
Speaker 1: family's case closely not to know anything about the custody
Speaker 1: issues that other family relatives disclosed to us before.
Speaker 11: Even stranger is something else that was presented at George
Speaker 11: Wagner's most recent pre trial hearing. Again he's the eldest son.
Speaker 11: Prosecutors pointed to a screenshot of a message from Hannah
Speaker 11: Rodin to one of her friends. In this message, she's
Speaker 11: discussing the Wagner's attempt to force her to sign forged
Speaker 11: custody documents. The ones that we've talked about in previous episodes.
Speaker 11: Now get this. The screenshot was found on the Wagner
Speaker 11: family computer seized during the investigation, and again allegedly the
Speaker 11: Wagner's got it by hacking into Hannah Rodin's Facebook account.
Speaker 11: The message is nothing short of chilling. It reads and
Speaker 11: I quote, I won't sign papers. Ever, it won't happen.
Speaker 11: They'll have to kill me first end quote.
Speaker 3: It does seem clear that the Wagners were sort of
Speaker 3: obsessed with custody and control of Sophia, and in speaking
Speaker 3: with people close to the family, this actually wasn't the
Speaker 3: first time custody became an issue. Christina Howard's sister, Tabby,
Speaker 3: was married to George Wagner for several years. The two
Speaker 3: had a son together, but eventually split up.
Speaker 1: According to Christina, following their divorce, the Wagner family tried
Speaker 1: to force Tabby into handing over custody of their son.
Speaker 1: This is Christina's recollection of events. She spoke to Jeff
Speaker 1: about it.
Speaker 8: Somehow or another angela like manipulated her with different papers
Speaker 8: to sign and stuff, and they had Tabby finding over
Speaker 8: the rights and custody to George. You know, they had
Speaker 8: money for expensive lawyer. Tabby didn't, and so they had
Speaker 8: custody plumb up until you know, they got caught and
Speaker 8: stuff for the crimes.
Speaker 3: Do you think that she was obsessed with having custody
Speaker 3: of all of her grandkids?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 9: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3: Why do you say that?
Speaker 8: Tabby Like whenever she would try to reach out to George, like, hey,
Speaker 8: can I come visit my son, and Angela would get
Speaker 8: on there and be like, oh, he's not your son anymore.
Speaker 8: Would tell Tabby like, oh, you might have gave birth
Speaker 8: to him, but I'm his real mother because I take
Speaker 8: care of him, and all these just nasty things.
Speaker 1: And Christina told us that in the aftermath of Tabby
Speaker 1: and George's custody battle, Hannah rode In contacted Tabby for
Speaker 1: advice and how to deal with their own custody issues
Speaker 1: with the Wagoners.
Speaker 8: I knew that Hannah was struggling to keep custody of
Speaker 8: Sophia because she went to her and my sister were
Speaker 8: pretty close, and you know, Tabby straight up told her
Speaker 8: like a if they present me with papers, do not
Speaker 8: sign them. Give them to a lawyer first.
Speaker 4: Let the lawyer read it.
Speaker 8: Over and proceed from there, because they will try to
Speaker 8: steal custody of Sophia, even if they're trying to act
Speaker 8: like they're understated, and all of the swords. Do not
Speaker 8: listen to them because they will scree you over.
Speaker 1: Christina's account of George Wagner and Tabby's dispute, in addition
Speaker 1: to everything we've heard about Jake Wagner and Hannah Rodin,
Speaker 1: clearly lays out a pattern of deceit and control when
Speaker 1: it comes to custody. But when Jeff asked Deray about
Speaker 1: George and Tabby's custody battle, she soundly refuted Christina's claims.
Speaker 3: I want your side of this. People say that, like
Speaker 3: George had a custody situation where he tried to get
Speaker 3: custody of his son Jake, maybe a similar situation. People
Speaker 3: are saying that, like Angela was just obsessed with getting
Speaker 3: the kids and wanted all the control of the children.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't believe that. I don't believe that.
Speaker 2: I know she loved him, but I don't believe.
Speaker 4: She was obsessed.
Speaker 2: I think she was a normal grandmother and then she
Speaker 2: was an excellent role model.
Speaker 1: While we don't know all the details of George Wagner
Speaker 1: and Tabby's custody case. There is evidence that the Wagners
Speaker 1: did deceive Hannah Rodin by trying to convince her to
Speaker 1: sign fake custody documents. Here's Stephanie, followed by Jeff.
Speaker 11: It seems being locked up in prison hasn't even stopped
Speaker 11: the Wagners for one second from trying to manipulate those
Speaker 11: closest to them. As we discussed earlier in September of
Speaker 11: twenty nineteen, Angela Wagner tried to discuss case strategy even
Speaker 11: influenced testimony from prison. Prosecutors also claim that Angela Wagner
Speaker 11: called her mother Rita Neukom she's the one that's accused
Speaker 11: of forging those custody documents. She called her several times
Speaker 11: and basically asked her not to testify against the family,
Speaker 11: and also told her how to explain away the custody
Speaker 11: documents that she's accused of forging.
Speaker 3: As a punishment, a judge suspended Angela Wagner's in jail
Speaker 3: phone and mail privileges. Mike Allen told us that this
Speaker 3: is just another blow for the defense.
Speaker 5: Any criminal defense attorney that is doing their job, and
Speaker 5: I'm sure every one of these criminal defense attorneys are
Speaker 5: doing their job. They tell their client from day one,
Speaker 5: do not, under any circumstances discuss the case on the phone,
Speaker 5: because you can guarantee that the conversations are being taked.
Speaker 5: Prosecutors can use those conversations if the person is talking
Speaker 5: about strategy, makes some kind of admission, intimidates witnesses, the
Speaker 5: recording doesn't lie, and that could end up to be
Speaker 5: some pretty strong evidence against her at the end of
Speaker 5: the day.
Speaker 1: George Wagner has also raised eyebrows for an odd request
Speaker 1: he made after five months in prison. He has to
Speaker 1: be transferred from general population to solitary confinement. Usually, solitary
Speaker 1: confinement is given to a prisoner who either is a
Speaker 1: threat to other prisoners or who may be in danger
Speaker 1: in the general population. My gallon told is that George
Speaker 1: a different reason.
Speaker 5: His stated reason was that you wanted to be able
Speaker 5: to study the Bible in peace. That's a little unusual
Speaker 5: when inmates ask for solitary a lot of times, although
Speaker 5: they may not say it, they're asking for that because
Speaker 5: they've been threatened, and you know, they want to make
Speaker 5: sure that they're as safe as they can be in jail.
Speaker 5: But when I read that, I kind of wondered, is
Speaker 5: that the real reason? I mean, you know, you just
Speaker 5: have to wonder what the motivation is.
Speaker 1: So how does all this evidence add up? How strong
Speaker 1: is the state's case against Billy, Angela Jake and George Wagner.
Speaker 5: Now I'm a criminal defense attorney. I used to be
Speaker 5: a prosecutor, and as a criminal defense attorney, you know,
Speaker 5: you never say never as far as you know your
Speaker 5: chances in front of a jury. Having said that, the
Speaker 5: evidence sure seems strong, and we don't know all the evidence.
Speaker 5: All we know is what's public. So the old adage
Speaker 5: that a prosecutor could die ham Sandwich is true. But
Speaker 5: smart prosecutors don't indict cases that they don't think they
Speaker 5: can win beyond a reasonable doubt. And I think Mike Dwine,
Speaker 5: who was in the driver's seat in this thing, there's
Speaker 5: no way he would have indicted this if he didn't
Speaker 5: think he could prove it, or ultimately someone could prove it.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, let's stop here for
Speaker 1: a quick commercial break. We'll be back in a moment.
Speaker 1: We've been covering this case for over two years, and
Speaker 1: in that time we've examined, not only the details of
Speaker 1: the eight murders themselves, but the multiple theories that have
Speaker 1: surrounded them. We looked into the speculation of a drug connection.
Speaker 2: Discoveries the murder scenes are now advancing the theory the
Speaker 2: killings could be related to a drug cartel.
Speaker 12: The Rodents had a pretty sizeable crop of marijuana plants
Speaker 12: on their property, so you know, there were indications that
Speaker 12: they were involved in some drug deals, in drug trade
Speaker 12: with marijuana.
Speaker 1: We explored the rumors of small town revenge.
Speaker 12: There had been reports of scuffles with other people in public.
Speaker 2: In his message and he's talking about I'm going to
Speaker 2: break his fucking legs and curb stop his ass.
Speaker 1: We also investigated a series of eerily similar killings.
Speaker 10: We have had a double homicide, four children left alive.
Speaker 4: This is very similar to the Rodent case.
Speaker 10: And we had heard that there were other people who
Speaker 10: were shot Noel the night execution style in their homes.
Speaker 10: And when you're looking at the Rodent case and then
Speaker 10: you see these other cases in a county that small,
Speaker 10: you start asking yourself.
Speaker 4: What the hell is going on.
Speaker 10: It doesn't make sense that this is happening there unless
Speaker 10: there is some sort of common denominator.
Speaker 1: But in the end, it was some of the people
Speaker 1: who were closest to the Rodents that were arrested for
Speaker 1: orchestrating the brutal, cold blooded massacre.
Speaker 13: At the center of this case were members of the
Speaker 13: Wagner family, whom we believe the event will show conspired
Speaker 13: together to kill these eight.
Speaker 1: As we struggled to make sense of the crimes, we've
Speaker 1: listened to the impassioned arguments of family members who insist
Speaker 1: that their relatives are innocent.
Speaker 2: Our family joke because there's no way that Betty Crocker
Speaker 2: and the Dobe boys could ever go to an extreme
Speaker 2: of murder.
Speaker 4: Somebody did it, but it wasn't.
Speaker 1: Now we've heard first person accounts from relatives that support
Speaker 1: the primary motive in this case.
Speaker 7: Hannah and Jake with the little girl. There was a
Speaker 7: company battle and Hannah wasn't allowing Jake to see her,
Speaker 7: and it just set him off to the point where
Speaker 7: Jake he had made the comments you know that he
Speaker 7: were going to kill her.
Speaker 1: But there are some who are simply torn.
Speaker 9: When the Wagoners were arrested, you had your fifty to fifty.
Speaker 7: You had people that said, yes, I knew that they
Speaker 7: did and then you've got people that day.
Speaker 5: There's no way those people did that.
Speaker 14: I don't think anybody would believe that, you know, a
Speaker 14: family could have put together such a tactical hit on
Speaker 14: another family that they had created life with.
Speaker 4: It's still too difficult to accept and too hard to believe.
Speaker 1: Many in the piked In area believe there is no
Speaker 1: doubt that the Wagners plotted this horrific killing.
Speaker 10: Spray people wanted to paint the sort of few between
Speaker 10: the Rodents and Wagners and something like the hatfields of McCoys.
Speaker 8: Doesn't make sense to me if they are innocent, because
Speaker 8: who else would do that.
Speaker 1: Whether the Wagners are innocent or guilty, doesn't change the
Speaker 1: fact that the lives of eight members of a revered
Speaker 1: local family, the Rodents, were taken on April twenty second,
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen. Dana Roden, thirty seven year old mother, grandmother
Speaker 1: and nurse living in her brand new home. Chris Rodin,
Speaker 1: forty year old, loving father and grandfather. Dana and Chris's
Speaker 1: oldest son, twenty year old Frankie Rodin. Frankie's fiance, twenty
Speaker 1: year old Hannah Gilly, who was in bed with their
Speaker 1: six month old baby, Frankie Roden's three year old son,
Speaker 1: both of whom were spared. Hannahme Roden, nineteen year old
Speaker 1: mother to two year old Sophia, and her five day
Speaker 1: old newborn Kylie, also spared. Dana and Chris's youngest child,
Speaker 1: sixteen year old Chris Junior, who had just gotten his
Speaker 1: driver's license, Chris Senior's older brother, forty four year old
Speaker 1: Kenneth Roden, father of three, and his cousin, thirty eight
Speaker 1: year old Gary Roden, who was staying with Chris Senior
Speaker 1: that night.
Speaker 9: It is horrible to this day in Dana and her
Speaker 9: her family will never never get to celebrate birthdays, you know,
Speaker 9: and have parties and get together some barbecues and stuff
Speaker 9: like that.
Speaker 2: It's terrible.
Speaker 9: It just really hurts my heart.
Speaker 1: In all this, it's sometimes easy to forget those whose
Speaker 1: lives were spared that faithful night, but who lost everything
Speaker 1: in the process, the Rodent children.
Speaker 3: It's two families really have been destroyed. And at the
Speaker 3: center of that tragedy is, you know, are these kids
Speaker 3: whose families are torn apart and lost.
Speaker 15: Sophia is the one that is losing the most at
Speaker 15: this point in her life because She's lost her mom's
Speaker 15: side of the family, she's lost her father's side of
Speaker 15: the family, and she is in child protective custody where
Speaker 15: no one knows where she is.
Speaker 4: She has lost on both sides. She's lost both of
Speaker 4: her families.
Speaker 2: Because it's supposed to be happy for her, this is
Speaker 2: her childhood.
Speaker 1: The tragic legacy of the Rodent murders continues to loom
Speaker 1: over the town of Pyton, Ohio.
Speaker 10: You know, whatever happened that morning on Union Hill Road,
Speaker 10: you know it impacted a lot more than just those
Speaker 10: eight people who were killed. I mean, you've got their
Speaker 10: family members, and you've got people in that area are
Speaker 10: going to remember this forever.
Speaker 4: This has never gone away.
Speaker 7: My family was a part of this horrible, I mean
Speaker 7: just absolutely awful act. You know that they destroyed this
Speaker 7: other family completely. They have changed his family's life for
Speaker 7: the rest of their life. So but then you know,
Speaker 7: I'm like, well, you know ours has changed as well.
Speaker 7: You know, we get tortured daily with the thought of
Speaker 7: how our family could have done something like this, and
Speaker 7: we still have love for them. I do feel so
Speaker 7: terrible for the Romans, and I've always wanted to be
Speaker 7: able to express how sorry, I am, And just because
Speaker 7: we still love Angela and Jake doesn't mean that we
Speaker 7: aren't sorry for what's take one, I guess.
Speaker 1: With trials for Billy, Angela, Jake, and George Wagner potentially
Speaker 1: just months away, the residents of the Pikeson area sit
Speaker 1: in anticipation, awaiting an end to the most gruesome chapter
Speaker 1: in the town's history and a conclusion to Ohio's most
Speaker 1: notorious murder case.
Speaker 5: I've been in the system for over fifty years, and
Speaker 5: that is extremely rare that you got for people, for
Speaker 5: defendants facing the death penalty.
Speaker 1: What will happen is anyone's guests if.
Speaker 10: They walk out of that courtroom without any convictions. I
Speaker 10: just can't imagine how the rodents go on in the
Speaker 10: public too. I mean, how do you go on not
Speaker 10: knowing for sure exactly who did this?
Speaker 2: Oh, it's going to be broken hearted, It's going to
Speaker 2: be broken hearts. I honestly think that that's the Wagoners.
Speaker 4: It's going to a mistrial.
Speaker 5: It's a search for the truth and that old proverb
Speaker 5: from Shakespeare the truth will out in the end. I
Speaker 5: believe that as it applies to this case, the mystery
Speaker 5: will be solved the truth will eventually and inevitably be discovered,
Speaker 5: and it looks like that's the way they're heading. I,
Speaker 5: like everybody else, want to know.
Speaker 4: I want to know how the story is.
Speaker 1: Reach out to us on our social media outlets with questions.
Speaker 1: We're on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at pikedon Massacre. We
Speaker 1: look forward to answering our questions and upcoming episodes. Pipedon
Speaker 1: Massacre is executive produced by Stephanie Leidecker and me Courtney Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by executive producer Jared Aston. Additional
Speaker 1: producing by Jeff Shaine and Andrew Becker. The piked In
Speaker 1: Massacre is a production of iHeartRadio and KAT Studios. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.