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Speaker 1: Boom have No Fear. The Iron Rapports stereo podcasts every beginning.

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Speaker 1: Boom have no Fear. The I Am Rappaports stereo podcast

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Speaker 1: is here. Tom Thibodeaux has been fired by the New

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Speaker 1: York Knicks. I wanted to see Thibbs run it back.

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Speaker 1: I thought Thibbs would be back to run it back,

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Speaker 1: but I brought in senior ESPN writer Chris Herring. Chris Herring,

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Speaker 1: who's also a New York Times best selling author. He

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Speaker 1: wrote a great book about the New York Knicks in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, to Patrick Ewings, the Charles Oaklees, the

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Speaker 1: pat Riley's, the Jeff Van Gunnies and so forth and

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Speaker 1: so on. That's how I met him. His book, New

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Speaker 1: York Times bestseller, Blood in the Garden is an absolute fun, good,

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Speaker 1: nostalgic book about Knicks fan's favorite team. In recent years,

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Speaker 1: I've Chris Herring talking all things NBA, talking Thibbs, talking,

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Speaker 1: where Kd's going to talking Giannis, talking what it's like

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Speaker 1: to be an inside inside man with ESPN in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five, and where are we going to be watching

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Speaker 1: NBA next season. It's a great interview all NBA everything,

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Speaker 1: my man, Chris Herring, Senior ESPN NBA writer Miles join

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Speaker 1: Ak to the Bleach Brothers aka the Dust Brothers. Start

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Speaker 1: this puppy on Chump real life, Start this pippy on

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Speaker 1: Chump really, but most importantly, start this puppy off with

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Speaker 1: something real funks. I am a Rapaport Stereo podcast baby, Chris.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you joining me on the im Rapaport Stereo Podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big fan. Glad to have you on the show.

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Speaker 1: Let's just get to it. Why did the Knicks fire Thibbs?

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Speaker 2: It came down to Dolan kind of taking input from

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Speaker 2: essentially the players and deciding to do that really surprisingly.

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Speaker 2: Uh So, there aspects of it that feel similar to

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Speaker 2: their aspects that feel similar as far as the team

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Speaker 2: and the way that they're built the team and kind

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Speaker 2: of are they a little bit old school in some

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Speaker 2: ways and maybe they need to modernize. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of stuff that feels similar here. The thing that just

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Speaker 2: feels completely foreign now, as you know, is that the

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Speaker 2: Knicks have not been great for very long.

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Speaker 3: You know, they're just.

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Speaker 2: Now getting back to kind of being a powerhouse. And

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Speaker 2: is this the right step for this moment given that

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Speaker 2: you know, it's it's not been a place that they've

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Speaker 2: been very often, so it's going to be a big gamble.

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Speaker 3: But I do understand that, but it's behind it.

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Speaker 2: I was a little bit surprised, but I guess you

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Speaker 2: can't be completely surprised, Like it makes sense that they

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Speaker 2: want to try to figure out if thinking squeez a

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Speaker 2: little bit more.

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Speaker 3: Out of this. You were surprised a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think we all knew there was a chance,

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Speaker 2: but I you know, and who knows. Maybe it's just coding,

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Speaker 2: and maybe it's just I was there in Indiana after

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Speaker 2: game six, and you know, Diibideau walks in the room

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Speaker 2: and then we go to the locker room, and then

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Speaker 2: maybe twenty thirty minutes after that, Jalen, Brunson and Cat

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Speaker 2: come out, and Brunson is asked to his face after

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Speaker 2: about ten minutes worth of questions by one of my colleagues,

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Speaker 2: you know, more or less do you want to say

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Speaker 2: anything to kind of suggest that he was more or

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Speaker 2: less trying to tea Jalen up to say like, hey,

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Speaker 2: I know how you feel about this, but like there're

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Speaker 2: gonna be questions about whether Thibodeau should come back, like,

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Speaker 2: do you think he's the right guy for the job?

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Speaker 2: So I felt like it was an effort to kind

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Speaker 2: of put them on the tee and let Jalen say

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Speaker 2: something really authoritative, and instead Jalen was annoyed, you know,

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Speaker 2: and I think rightfully so on some level, nobody expected

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Speaker 2: this team to beat the Celtics. They did that, And

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Speaker 2: I also feel like by the way, the way that

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Speaker 2: this team was built, the nature in which they were

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Speaker 2: built was to beat the Celtics, which they did. They

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Speaker 2: did not look good going into the end of the

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Speaker 2: regular season the playoffs. They lost Jalen for a month,

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Speaker 2: and they'd been knocked the hell out every time they

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Speaker 2: played against the Celtics during the regular season, with the

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Speaker 2: exceptional one game. Every other game was fourteen, twenty four,

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Speaker 2: twenty seven points they're losing by. So they win that series,

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Speaker 2: and by the way, they win it without it being

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Speaker 2: just because of Jason Tatum's injury. They were going to

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Speaker 2: be up three to one anyway, and sillinly me thinking

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Speaker 2: that that would be enough to kind of guarantee his job.

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Speaker 2: Not to mention they won a couple games this series

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Speaker 2: after but I do think people watching the last series

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Speaker 2: could look at it and say this was still a

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Speaker 2: winnable series. You lose Game one and the fashion you

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Speaker 2: were just talking about, you had home court advantage.

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Speaker 3: Even if you think the Pacers are deeper.

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Speaker 2: You know, you might think that maybe Thibodeau could have

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Speaker 2: made better use of the bench, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: people feel that way. But I thought he should be

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Speaker 2: safe theoretically, just because of what the franchise has been

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Speaker 2: before him, what the franchise is now. The fact that

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Speaker 2: players seem to respect him. Whether they might be a

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Speaker 2: little bit tired of him as a different question, and

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Speaker 2: you never quite know that part, but the fact that

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Speaker 2: Jalen was so pissed off that that question was asked,

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Speaker 2: and we know he has great respect for Tom Thibodau.

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Speaker 2: He's known Tom Thibodeau since he was a child. So

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Speaker 2: I was a little bit surprised. Even if it when

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Speaker 2: you think about it, it makes logical sense. I was still

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Speaker 2: a little bit surprised.

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Speaker 3: Were you.

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Speaker 1: I was surprised. I mean, obviously it wasn't like shocking, sure,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I was surprised. I thought they would run

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Speaker 1: it back. I understand, you know, the rotations and the frustrations,

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Speaker 1: and you know the need to succeed. It is New York.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like, like everybody, it's not like I

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Speaker 1: have anything, you know, some groundbreaking stuff. I feel like

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Speaker 1: we superseded expectations. Obviously, you know, aaron Ne Smith going

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Speaker 1: nuts in the fourth quarter of that game. Nobody saw

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Speaker 1: that coming in the Hall of Burton and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: And when you lose the first two games of a

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Speaker 1: of a series at home, you're not winning. I don't

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Speaker 1: care how much heart and toughness and grit and Josh Harten,

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Speaker 1: you know, Mitchell Roberts. I mean, we're down to nothing

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Speaker 1: at home, so we were in a hole. I would

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Speaker 1: have liked to see them running back because I feel

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Speaker 1: like it means something that the guys, whether they like

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Speaker 1: it or not, they do play hard for him. I

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Speaker 1: think that will translate to whoever's there, because I think

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Speaker 1: that's the kind of guys they are. But I was surprised,

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Speaker 1: and just being a Knicks fan for so many years,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we talked about your book in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: you know, with the nineties Nicks and then the two

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Speaker 1: thousand Knicks, and there's so many coaching changes and all

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Speaker 1: that stuff, and I feel like we finally have a

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Speaker 1: culture and I feel like we finally have, you know,

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Speaker 1: just something to build on and to just get rid

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Speaker 1: of it so quickly. I was disappointed. I was disappointed.

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Speaker 1: I'm also disappointed. I'm curious to you because you're you're

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Speaker 1: a writer, You're an NBA writer, you know, which is

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Speaker 1: almost like you know, a thing of the stone ages now,

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Speaker 1: And I mean that would all due respect, you know,

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Speaker 1: with podcasting and social media and videos and all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Do you get frustrated? And I'm not trying to walk

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Speaker 1: you in anything, but you know, with the fact that

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Speaker 1: the Knicks, out of all the teams in the league,

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Speaker 1: you know, we don't get a closing press conference, we

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Speaker 1: don't get the closing statement. You know, the firing was done,

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Speaker 1: and you know, we probably won't hear from Leon Rose

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Speaker 1: and see the ownership until there's a new hiring, which

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Speaker 1: I don't know when that'll be done, probably in the

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Speaker 1: next couple weeks. But as a writer, is that frustrating

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Speaker 1: to that the biggest market because it's crazy that since

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Speaker 1: Thibbs got fired, and even before he got fired, the

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Speaker 1: a story this week and we have the finals coming up,

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Speaker 1: even before the firing is the Knicks because it is

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Speaker 1: New York. Is it frustrating that you don't have access?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I will say this, I've noted this shift

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Speaker 2: for a while, dating back to when Leon was first hired,

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Speaker 2: that it seems like a lot of fans and I

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Speaker 2: think that this is something that happens throughout different industries,

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Speaker 2: but media access to slips, and I think that the

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Speaker 2: way that people think about the media has shifted a

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Speaker 2: lot lot, not just in sports. Obviously, we have someone

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Speaker 2: sitting in the highest office right now who's kind of

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Speaker 2: made the media an enemy and has called the media

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Speaker 2: fake news and all these other things. We know the

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Speaker 2: owner of the team, we know kind of how he's

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Speaker 2: aligned politically.

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Speaker 3: We know about the Trump rally that happened at the Garden.

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Speaker 2: I say all that to say, we're in a different

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Speaker 2: time in society right now. And I felt like I

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Speaker 2: saw a shift maybe a little bit after I left

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Speaker 2: the Beat in twenty sixteen, the official Beat. Now I'm

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Speaker 2: someone that kind of spends a lot of time on

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Speaker 2: the Knicks, but I still cover national stuff. I felt

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Speaker 2: like I saw a shift right around the time that

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Speaker 2: Leon was hired, and he made a decision early on

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Speaker 2: I'm not doing media people and my profession made a

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Speaker 2: fuss about it, and it's been written about, and it's

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Speaker 2: been tweeted about, and reporters will tweet about it, and

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Speaker 2: fans will be like, stop whining, like he's doing something

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Speaker 2: different and not so mentioned.

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Speaker 3: The Knicks have.

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Speaker 2: Started winning, and I feel like, to me, it's not

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Speaker 2: about whether the team wins or loses. It's having a

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Speaker 2: level of accountability, and it's there are a lot of

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Speaker 2: things that I feel like, even with the team winning,

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Speaker 2: that I would care about as a fan, a lot

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Speaker 2: of things that if and when things happen, if and

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Speaker 2: things aren't handled appropriately behind the scenes, if there are

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Speaker 2: cases that end up being written about, if there are

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Speaker 2: lawsuits that are written about, if there are people who

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Speaker 2: are hired that have stuff in their background, which has

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Speaker 2: been the case before with this team, there should be

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Speaker 2: a level of accountability of like what prompted you to

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Speaker 2: make this decision? And frankly, even with coaching hires, there

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Speaker 2: are questions I'd like to ask about. Okay, sure you

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Speaker 2: took this step with Tom Thibodeaux, even with the team

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Speaker 2: advancing as far as it did, did you guys give

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Speaker 2: Thibodeaux enough depth for this roster to make this call.

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Speaker 3: That's not him. He didn't make that decision.

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Speaker 2: And eventually, if and when that day comes where Leon

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Speaker 2: Rose is the person being taken the task. He's never

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Speaker 2: been someone that needed the media or wanted necessarily the

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Speaker 2: media attention, but I imagine, like it's I think it's

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Speaker 2: beneficial to at least have the word out there. This

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Speaker 2: is what I think, This is what I feel beyond

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Speaker 2: a three paragraph or even two paragraph statement. I don't

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Speaker 2: blame him for that being the way he wants to

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Speaker 2: do things, but I do think that it bothers me

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Speaker 2: a little bit that so many fans would be like, no,

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Speaker 2: that's okay, don't speak, don't say anything, because I think

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Speaker 2: that there's value what.

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Speaker 1: Fans on Twitter like, do you do you actually see

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Speaker 1: that or is that like firsthand because you know, covering

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Speaker 1: the game now and social media, we don't know if

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Speaker 1: these these Knick sites, you know, there's so many sites

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Speaker 1: for obviously because it's the Knicks. You know, there's the

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Speaker 1: Knick's biggest fan, the Knicks you know, smallest fan, there's

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Speaker 1: the Knicks you know robots. I mean, like, are the

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Speaker 1: actual fans, like, are you getting this from people like

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Speaker 1: in your world.

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Speaker 2: So I don't really use as you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: not communicating. I don't really use Twitter anymore, but when

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Speaker 2: I did, when I would about brother, it's to me

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Speaker 2: more of a cesspool than it was before. And I'm okay,

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Speaker 2: there's enough other sites out there. Just the ridicule and

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Speaker 2: the lack of security from just passwords and stuff like that,

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Speaker 2: but also just the bots and and the fact that frankly,

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Speaker 2: when you tweet stories out you can tell that they've

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Speaker 2: changed the algorithm in a way to kind of keep

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Speaker 2: certain voices down lift others up. I'm good, Like there's

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Speaker 2: enough other stuff. That's how I feel personally. But I

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Speaker 2: say all that to say I felt it, and I

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Speaker 2: remember people tweeting about it. I remember someone tweeting a

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Speaker 2: story about the lack of availability and about the lack

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Speaker 2: of clarity with regards to at the time when they

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Speaker 2: brought on Jalen's father who had stuff and his background

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Speaker 2: and stuff that he'd been accused of, and it was

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Speaker 2: like it would be fair to ask for accountability and

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Speaker 2: to ask questions about this, like do fans not care

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Speaker 2: about this? And they're like, man, no, like if it

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Speaker 2: leads to us getting Chalen. No, we don't care about this,

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Speaker 2: like why other teams made their decision. The Knicks made

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Speaker 2: their decision, so what. But I would say more to

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Speaker 2: your point, I think our country has spoken largely on

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Speaker 2: a large faction of our country not caring about this stuff,

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Speaker 2: about whether people speak to the media, about how they

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Speaker 2: speak to the media, about whether they tell the truth

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Speaker 2: when they speak to the media. I think that I

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Speaker 2: don't think that that is just a one industry or

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Speaker 2: one faction of our country. I think it is broader,

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Speaker 2: and I do think that it becomes very easy to

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Speaker 2: be that way about things that we root for, the

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Speaker 2: teams that we root for, and people that we root

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Speaker 2: for that we sometimes don't want them held accountable in

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Speaker 2: the same way. And to each his own, I don't

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Speaker 2: necessarily agree with that, but I don't think that it's

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Speaker 2: just the way I think about it. I do think

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Speaker 2: that it's a thing. I could be wrong, certainly, it's

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Speaker 2: my perception, but I do think that it's a thing.

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Speaker 1: You covered the Knicks, you understand the Knicks again, your

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Speaker 1: book Blood in the Garden. Awesome If Chris Herring was

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Speaker 1: running the Knicks and not Leon Rose. If Chris was

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Speaker 1: running the entire show. Who would you hire as the

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Speaker 1: Knicks coach in the next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 3: That's a great question.

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Speaker 1: And who do you think they will hire.

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Speaker 2: I have seen so many people saying Michael Malone, and

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Speaker 2: I keep thinking, like, do you do know what he

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Speaker 2: was essentially fired for in Denver?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 2: It is the idea that like he got kind of

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Speaker 2: got tuned out, and then he'd been there a long

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Speaker 2: time and that yes, people respected him, but then it

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Speaker 2: just wears on you a little bit, and also the

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Speaker 2: friction between the front office. So on some level, he

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Speaker 2: would be a really sensible guy if you want someone

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Speaker 2: in the same vein they you know, if you can

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Speaker 2: remember it back to the nineties, they tried to go

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Speaker 2: completely away from Riley by getting Don Nelson, and then

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Speaker 2: they ended up with Ben Gundy, who obviously was a

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Speaker 2: lot like Riley. So maybe there is sense in getting

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Speaker 2: somebody like that. I've seen some of the other names floated.

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Speaker 2: I think Mark Stein had reported like, you may u

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Speaker 2: doope with someone they'd be interested in and maybe even

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Speaker 2: orchestrating a trade to get I think they would benefit

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Speaker 2: from somebody a little bit younger Tims was the oldest

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Speaker 2: coach in the league, so if they could find someone

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Speaker 2: with that, I also think someone that has defensive chops.

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Speaker 2: Tims was obviously good in that regard to but defensive

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Speaker 2: chops that can make use of Cat and I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know who does that. I don't know who

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Speaker 2: that is. I don't know how they do it. But

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Speaker 2: I think it was really interesting all offseason all postseason

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Speaker 2: to watch Cat and Brunson in foul trouble and sometimes

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Speaker 2: watch them go on.

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Speaker 3: Runs when one of them would be out of the game.

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Speaker 2: Because I felt like, man, they can't play out there

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Speaker 2: with both of them on defense. But if it's just one,

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Speaker 2: it's you know, you can kind of cover for that one.

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Speaker 2: You can't do that with two guys, So I I

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Speaker 2: think it needs to be someone who's defense minded.

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Speaker 3: I think they have enough talent on offense.

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Speaker 2: I also think they've got other tricks that they can

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Speaker 2: pull out of their bag on offense to not play

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Speaker 2: heart alongside Kat so that they can truly play five out.

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Speaker 2: So I think they might have some stuff they can

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Speaker 2: do offensively. Regardless of who the coaches, I think that

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Speaker 2: they need another really strong defensive mind, and maybe someone

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Speaker 2: that utilizes newer concepts, because TIMS has been a good

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Speaker 2: defensive code for a long time and used to be

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Speaker 2: great in my opinion, But I think the game has

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Speaker 2: shifted a little bit and there might be guys that

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Speaker 2: think about it a little bit differently. They really don't

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Speaker 2: wait until the end of the season to start switching

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Speaker 2: just for the Boston Series and stuff like that, So

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Speaker 2: I'm not.

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Speaker 1: Sure that was who that was crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a lot of adjustments that came late

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Speaker 2: that I just kept looking at him, like, if Delon

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Speaker 2: Right and Landry Shammitt actually fit in your rotation and

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Speaker 2: play this well in your rotation, why were you not

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Speaker 2: using them more before? And it kind of gave a

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Speaker 2: lot of life to Mikhail Bridges' comments from March about

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Speaker 2: the idea of like, we've got guys that are capable

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Speaker 2: that could take some minutes off of us and we

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Speaker 2: wouldn't be so tired.

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Speaker 1: I see behind you you have a bunch of books,

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Speaker 1: but I notice you have the Yannis book behind you.

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Speaker 1: What do you think is going to happen? You're an

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Speaker 1: insider man, I know you keeping it close to the

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Speaker 1: vest I know people text you you got you got sources.

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Speaker 1: What do you think is going to wind up happen

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Speaker 1: with Giannis this summer.

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Speaker 2: I think definitively he's going to need to ask out.

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Speaker 2: The Bucks are not going to do anything without him saying, look,

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Speaker 2: I don't think I can do this anymore.

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Speaker 3: They they are going to tread lightly.

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Speaker 2: But look, I mean like, if you are any other team,

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Speaker 2: you would want to take care to make sure that

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Speaker 2: you're not moving too quickly because if anything shifts with that,

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Speaker 2: you want to be in the driver's seat. And if

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Speaker 2: you're the NIXT I imagine you you too would want

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Speaker 2: to be in the driver's seat for something like that.

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Speaker 2: Yannas strikes me as the last person to ask out,

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Speaker 2: but obviously my teammate has Chalms has reported that he

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Speaker 2: for the first time, is at least open to the idea.

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Speaker 2: And stuff is pretty dire there. They've already kind of

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Speaker 2: swapped out coaches. They did that last year to get Doc.

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Speaker 2: Doc is highly paid. I'd imagine he's not going anywhere.

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Speaker 2: They just locked in their GM. Further to an extension

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Speaker 2: which I was very surprised by with John Horse and

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Speaker 2: Dame is out with an Achilles, and also Dame is

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Speaker 2: as old as he is, so there's really not much

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Speaker 2: coming to save them right now.

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Speaker 3: That I mean, Kyle Kuzma was dreadful in the postseason.

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Speaker 1: Man he was dropped.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't quite understand that tread I didn't know

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Speaker 2: if he was enough of an upgrade. I knew he

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Speaker 2: was younger, but he's not like wildly athletic. He had

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Speaker 2: not had a great season to that point either. But

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Speaker 2: it leaves me in a spot where it's like, it

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Speaker 2: seems very possible that just looking at the writing on

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Speaker 2: the wall, I'll put it this way, between him and

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Speaker 2: Tibbs and having hope in one versus the other, I

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Speaker 2: think the Knicks would have been smart to have more

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Speaker 2: faith than TIBs than Gianna should have faith in the Bucks.

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Speaker 2: So we saw the way that the Knicks I mean,

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Speaker 2: maybe honest we'll ask out. But I think that's the

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Speaker 2: question that everybody's waiting on, is like if he does,

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Speaker 2: does everyone want to get involved? Does he have a

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Speaker 2: very clear place that he'd like to go or a

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Speaker 2: place or two that he'd like to go, And then

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Speaker 2: if you're the Knicks, like how would you try to

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Speaker 2: make it work? Because you know, obviously it would probably

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Speaker 2: have to involve someone like kat to make it happen.

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Speaker 2: It's just such a big salary thing, and the Knicks

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Speaker 2: have such big blocks of salary devoted to two or

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Speaker 2: three guys that you're.

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Speaker 3: Probably not moving. You're not going to move Jailing to

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Speaker 3: get that done.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, would you move Kat would you move Og to

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Speaker 2: get something like that done if that was something that

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Speaker 2: the Bucks wanted back. But it's going to be a

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Speaker 2: tough pill to swallow for Milwaukee because you know they

378
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Speaker 2: don't want to do that unless they absolutely have to.

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Speaker 1: And the other big name, Phoenix just hired their coach today.

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Speaker 1: The other big name, obviously is Kevin Durant. What do

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Speaker 1: you think is going to wind up happening for him?

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Speaker 1: I could see him getting to the Knicks. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're talking about Karl Anthony again, and you know Kevin

384
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Speaker 1: Booker and Phoenix and all that stuff. You know, you

385
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Speaker 1: always got to give up to get and get to

386
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Speaker 1: give and all that stuff. But where would you say

387
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Speaker 1: he would be the best situation or the most likely

388
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Speaker 1: situation for Durant?

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Speaker 3: Man, I don't I'm so curious whether you like that

390
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Speaker 3: fit or not.

391
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Speaker 2: I mean, I Katie is older, and the one thing

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Speaker 2: I will say I like about the.

393
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Speaker 3: Knicks, and then I feel like it's getting lost in

394
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Speaker 3: all this.

395
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Speaker 2: They accomplished what they accomplished in year one with this

396
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Speaker 2: group with no real offseason to work together, as you

397
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Speaker 2: and I were alluding to, with no real I'm not

398
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 2: gonna say adjustments, but like they hit a lot until

399
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Speaker 2: the postseason. We saw no Mitchell Robinson until the last

400
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Speaker 2: twenty games of the season. We didn't really see them

401
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,760
Speaker 2: switch a lot until the fourth time they played the Celtics,

402
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,639
Speaker 2: and then in the playoffs against the Celtics, and they

403
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,160
Speaker 2: still ended up two games out of the finals, two

404
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 2: wins away from the finals, so they're not dead in

405
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,400
Speaker 2: the water. But part of what I appreciate about them

406
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,240
Speaker 2: is that they're young enough, Like this is a group

407
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,399
Speaker 2: and a core that all kind of fits together age wise.

408
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,399
Speaker 2: Katie breaks that and he's a great player.

409
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Speaker 3: Still. I don't want to blame his team's feelings.

410
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Speaker 2: On him, because that's not fair, but I don't I

411
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Speaker 2: don't think I would love that fit. Like obviously, when

412
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Speaker 2: he was trying to pick a team before and he

413
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Speaker 2: went to Brooklyn, I think the timing on that would

414
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Speaker 2: have been.

415
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Speaker 3: Perfect, But I don't think that now.

416
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Speaker 2: If you could take Katie in the way he's playing

417
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Speaker 2: right now and make him three years younger, sure at

418
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Speaker 2: thirty three, at thirty six, I don't think.

419
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Speaker 3: I don't think I love that. Do you? How would

420
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Speaker 3: you feel about it?

421
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Speaker 4: No?

422
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Speaker 1: I agree, because it's like he's still sick. But you

423
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 1: know you're all in, you know, and it's going to happen,

424
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Speaker 1: and you're going to give up a lot. Are you

425
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 1: a diet? Like are you considering yourself a Knicks fan?

426
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Speaker 1: I know you covered the league, but where's your head?

427
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Speaker 3: No?

428
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Speaker 2: No, I mean like when I covered when I first

429
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,719
Speaker 2: started covering the NBA, you were mentioning, I'm from Michigan.

430
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Speaker 3: I went to Michigan. I'm from Chicago. Originally.

431
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Speaker 2: I grew up at the like the tail end of

432
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Speaker 2: the Jordan era, so I was a fan as a kid.

433
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Speaker 2: I didn't even know what I was watching or you know,

434
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Speaker 2: like I didn't even know anything about.

435
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 3: The Knicks at that time as far as their rivalry.

436
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 3: I was too young. But I don't care.

437
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,399
Speaker 2: I think to me, and I don't think this is

438
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,639
Speaker 2: true of everybody or even most people, the fandom for

439
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 2: me kind of dies like covering the game because I

440
00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 2: find myself rooting for good stories, like something an outcome

441
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,520
Speaker 2: that will help me to write a better story, or

442
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 2: something that's interesting. I just got married, and so I

443
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: kind of was rooting during the off season for like

444
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 2: the series to just be short. However they played out

445
00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,040
Speaker 2: so I could get back to my wife and whatnot.

446
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 2: I don't really care who wins or loses. Like I

447
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 2: love the passion of the Knicks fans. I obviously spend

448
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 2: a lot of time around them and think it's cool

449
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 2: as hell when you guys win a series and people

450
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 2: are climbing up.

451
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 3: Poles and whatnot. I don't really care.

452
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 2: I mean I root sometimes for players to land in

453
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 2: good situations because it makes teams in the league more interesting.

454
00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,720
Speaker 2: Like so the fan in me, like just a basketball

455
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 2: fan of me, not like a fan of a team,

456
00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 2: would love to see Katie with the Knicks because it's

457
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 2: like it it just kind of goes all in further

458
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 2: because it's like, well, if that doesn't work, and two

459
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 2: years ago by and now it's thirty eight, like now

460
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 2: what are you doing?

461
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 3: And now what did you give up?

462
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:16,439
Speaker 2: I thought it was fascinating that they went all in

463
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,119
Speaker 2: for Bridges that they went all in for towns for

464
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 2: those same reasons.

465
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: We went all in with Bridges they did.

466
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 2: And I remember I asked him a media day, not

467
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 2: media did his h Yeah, it was media day the

468
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 2: introductory press conference for him. I said, Michael, I know

469
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 2: this is not your problem necessarily, but like, what do

470
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 2: you make of the idea that they gave up five

471
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,199
Speaker 2: picks for you? Like, because I know that that on

472
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 2: some level as the organization saying they trust you and

473
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 2: they trust the fit that you're going to have with

474
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 2: this group, but also it put it's gonna put a

475
00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 2: target on your back every time you don't play well.

476
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 2: And I didn't word it that directly, but I said, like,

477
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 2: what do you make of that? He's like, man, I'm

478
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 2: just kind of here to do my job, and like

479
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 2: he's like that he's not gonna make a big deal

480
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 2: out of it. But I remember we all knew that

481
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 2: when like I and immediately the first question that came

482
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 2: in my mind is kind of someone who's stat heavy.

483
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 2: I was like, I can guarantee you there've never been

484
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:11,440
Speaker 2: that many picks given up for someone that's never made

485
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 2: an All Star team, and they haven't so He's one

486
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 2: of one in that way, and he did make up

487
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 2: for it on some level in the playoffs. He also

488
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 2: had some duds in the playoffs, but he made some

489
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 2: really big plays. He seemed more comfortable, and it seemed

490
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 2: like he was playing, if not harder than he was

491
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 2: a little bit more physical in the playoffs than he

492
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 2: was during the regular season, because I felt like watching

493
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: him in the regular season, even watching him in the preseason,

494
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 2: I was like washing him up close every game. I

495
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 2: now see how he stays healthy to some extent because

496
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 2: he does not run through screens, like he does not

497
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 2: finish at the basket. He pulls up and you know

498
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 2: he'd go six or seven games without a trip to

499
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 2: the line, and it's like he protects his body, which

500
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: is smart for what he does and what he prioritizes.

501
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: But they need a little bit more from him, especially

502
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 2: get considering they gave up five picks, you have to

503
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 2: imagine they thought he was going to be a perfect

504
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 2: fit to go that many draft picks.

505
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 4: For him the finals.

506
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: What do you see in this matchup? And also this

507
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,239
Speaker 1: is probably I don't know someone you know in the

508
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: modern era, definitely the two smallest markets to make it

509
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 1: to the finals far recently. What do you think about

510
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,600
Speaker 1: the matchup and what do you think about the fact

511
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 1: that two small markets, you know, quote unquote small markets

512
00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 1: made it to the finals.

513
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 3: I think the matchup itself is really fun.

514
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: I mean, these are the two teams that the last

515
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 2: two three four months of the year had the best

516
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 2: record in the league, between okay See and then obviously Indiana.

517
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 2: They are teams that play very fun styles, and I

518
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 2: think people have the not everybody. You kind of rightly

519
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: ask like, where are you getting that impression from. I

520
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 2: don't necessarily think it's everybody, but I do think that

521
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 2: a large portion of fans, even ones that love the sport,

522
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 2: are quick to label a matchup as boring if they

523
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 2: either don't recognize the stars, don't recognize the teams, or

524
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 2: taking it a step further, it's just see teams that

525
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: are from small markets and they're like, I don't want that.

526
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 2: I mean, okay See had a historic season, a historic

527
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 2: point differential. They look every bit the part of Golden

528
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: State when they first started their dynasty. There is almost

529
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: no difference statistically between what they're doing and this year

530
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 2: versus what the Warriors did their first year of that group,

531
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 2: I think that group was sixty seven and fifteen and

532
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 2: this team is sixty eight and fourteen for the season.

533
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 2: The point differentials are similar. They both had an MVP,

534
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 2: they both had a really good second guy, and Clay

535
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 2: and here Jalen Williams just nasty sort of layers to

536
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: this team. They're They're as dominant defensively as any team

537
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: I've seen in my time covering the league, and I

538
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: think even going back further than that.

539
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 3: So they're great. But the Pacers are really great too.

540
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 2: I worry a little bit whether the Pacers will be

541
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 2: able to stay really competitive for a full series. I mean,

542
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 2: we've obviously seen them give everybody else. But I told

543
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 2: my close friend the other day, a diehard basketball fan,

544
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: I said, Mark has been I don't make any I

545
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: think you even clocked it in a minute ago, Like,

546
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 2: I'm not the biggest on making really bold predictions, but

547
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: I was like, I think I've seen enough from Oksey

548
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,720
Speaker 2: at this point to think that even in this era

549
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 2: where we've had seven new champions in a row, I

550
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 2: think they're going to win three out of the next five.

551
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 2: And my best my best friend was like, Bro, you're

552
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 2: wild and I don't think so, because think about it,

553
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 2: the reason that most teams can't do it right now

554
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 2: is that Apron and the luxury taxes and everything else.

555
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: Like the minute you win, you've got to start thinking

556
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: about how to tear the roster down so that you

557
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: don't end up too far in the time.

558
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 3: It's too expensive.

559
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 2: The Celtics won last year's title and a week after

560
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 2: that they were putting the team up for sale, which

561
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: was wild but tells you like, it's too expensive for

562
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: even owners to want to really do this. I say

563
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 2: all of that to say the Thunder aren't having those

564
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: problems yet. So, yeah, they've got Shay, He's an MVP,

565
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: Supermax all that stuff. Their next two best players are

566
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 2: I think twenty three and twenty two, and so they're

567
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: still in their first contract. They're not up against a

568
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 2: luxury tax, they're not up against an Apron. They have

569
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: what four different guys that all could realistically be all

570
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 2: defense players.

571
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 3: Obviously Caruso. Cruso was guarding sinners reliably during the playoffs.

572
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 2: Jalen Williams, when Chet and Isaiah Hartenstein were still hurt,

573
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 2: was guarding sinners and had one of the best rint

574
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 2: protection rates in the league. As a two guard, I

575
00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: really stop two guard. But a two guard that doesn't

576
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 2: even count Scheit, that doesn't even count Hartenstein. But you've

577
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 2: got two guards that can play center at moments. You've

578
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 2: got Shay who is among the league leaders in deflections,

579
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 2: You've got lou dort Man. It's just it's too much defense,

580
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: I think for most teams to deal with. And I

581
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 2: think the biggest part is they still have a boatload

582
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: of picks. So even if they did start having financial pressure,

583
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: Heart and SIGDN obviously is a thirty million dollar contract.

584
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 3: Other guys are gonna.

585
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 2: Get paid soon ish, but you could always flip those

586
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 2: and go bring in someone younger who fits you perfectly.

587
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 2: With all those picks you have, I really don't think

588
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,040
Speaker 2: they're going to run up against the financial pressures that

589
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 2: everybody else is having over the last five years. I

590
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: think it would mean that they have to win this

591
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: year and probably next year. But I think that there's

592
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: a good chance that they get at least two and

593
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: I would put money on three out of the next five.

594
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 3: I really, wow, I really would.

595
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: All right, I got to mark that down. Oh my

596
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 1: last question for you is so much is changing with

597
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: the media rights TNT and did their show. I'm not

598
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: even exactly sure. I'm so confused, and I don't have

599
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: to worry about it for a few months. I'm not

600
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: exactly sure where to watch NBA? Next year they got Amazon,

601
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: NBC is going to be d Can you explain us

602
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: to us again? It's early next October. Where are we

603
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: watching the NBA? And where is Shaq, Kenny Charles and

604
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: Aernie gonna wind up? I'm confused.

605
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure they're gonna end up with my network.

606
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: They're going to and it is confusing. To be fair

607
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: to you, I think that those guys are going to

608
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 2: have a licensing deal with ESPN where they still work

609
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: for Turner, but obviously Turner doesn't have rights anymore, so

610
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: they're going to license that ability to show it through ESPN.

611
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 2: And that I read the other day it's obviously just

612
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 2: a report, but that they're going to have like a

613
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: postgame show on ESPN and they're trying to figure out

614
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 2: how to make it work with Scott Vin Pelt so

615
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 2: that they can have a full postgame show but also

616
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: involve Ben Pelt. And I think Van Pelt reportedly is

617
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 2: like being gracious enough to say, like they can have

618
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 2: some of my time if it means that we get

619
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: to work together, that they to got to do their thing.

620
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: So that's my understanding of it. I think it's NBC.

621
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 2: I think it's Amazon. I know I'm missing another one.

622
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: I know ESPN, say Netflix, like I have Christmas Games or.

623
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 3: Something like that, something weird like that.

624
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 2: Like, I'll be honest, that's one of my least favorite

625
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: things about a lot of stuff that I watch now,

626
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 2: where it's like you have to kind of cobble together

627
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: everything with all your streaming services, which feels like a

628
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: cable plan at that point once you've done all that.

629
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: But I think people are going to have to have

630
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 2: a couple of different ones to make it work. It

631
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 2: is a little frustrating.

632
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: So is there not going to be any more NBA

633
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 1: package where you're just like you're in the NB, like

634
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 1: if it's all those three or four places, you know

635
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: you have to like hobble back and hobble this, and

636
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: that's kind of.

637
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 3: Crazy, it is.

638
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 2: I worry that there's not going to be one because

639
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: I think, to your point, what would the motivation be

640
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: like if you're NBC and you want to get your

641
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 2: money back for having paid whatever chunk of the billions

642
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: of dollars that this is going to cost. You want

643
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: people to log onto your app or to your channel specifically,

644
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: not period something that's going to be like a you know,

645
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: a hodgepodge, like, oh, we all take a slice of it.

646
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: You want your money. So I don't know how it works.

647
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: I've always wondered that.

648
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 3: I know.

649
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 2: I want to say to your question that that's something

650
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: that Dolan has complained about himself too, of like you're

651
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: watering down the value of the media rights steals that

652
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 2: we're signing as individual markets by having all these different

653
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 2: groups involved and wanting to take more and more games

654
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: and make them national. It's not fair to us, you know,

655
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 2: like it waters down the value of the individual games

656
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 2: we want to show. So it's certainly interesting, I'll tell

657
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: you that. And it's I don't quite know exactly how

658
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: it's going to work either. I think a lot of

659
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 2: us are confused, and it'll probably make more sense once

660
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: it's up and running.

661
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a weird time.

662
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 2: And also like NBC is going to have Michael Jordan,

663
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: Like I can't imagine he's going to make more than

664
00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: one or two appearances on that network, I would be

665
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 2: so surprised.

666
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 3: I would be stunned.

667
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: I know that's going to be crazy. I like, what

668
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: is he going to do? Like he like they're gonna

669
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 1: like ship them in, like he comes like on a

670
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: space ship, like bro.

671
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 2: I can't imagine this anything but like tape content, Like

672
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: I can't imagine I'm just going to have him sitting

673
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: there on a panel because I feel like everybody will

674
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 2: be hanging on every word the man says, you know,

675
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 2: like I can't imagine.

676
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 3: I really, I don't know.

677
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 2: I'd have to see it to believe it, Like I

678
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: would be stunned if it's more than once or twice,

679
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: because it was also so bigue the way they mentioned it,

680
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 2: like it sounded like they did not have it all

681
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: the way ironed out. Because also, what are you paying

682
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 2: him to do that? Like he doesn't need the money.

683
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: So I'll be curious to.

684
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: See because I thought Tom Brady was going to be

685
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: like that sort of you know, Jedi thing. But me personally,

686
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: I like the way he was covering the games. Obviously

687
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: people nitpick everything about because Tom Brady and all that stuff,

688
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,880
Speaker 1: but I thought he made a good transition. I feel

689
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: like Mike is still in you know, Air Jordan mode,

690
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: and you know Tom Brady, you see a different side

691
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: of him since he retired, kind of like Alex Rodriguez,

692
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: you were like, who is this person? I don't know

693
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: if that person exists in Michael Jordans, I don't know

694
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: what they're going.

695
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: To do it.

696
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 2: I was older man, like those other guys were still

697
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 2: closer to having gotten out of the league, like Michael's

698
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 2: had twenty years damn near to like just kind of

699
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: sit and I we'll see, Like he just hasn't ever

700
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,479
Speaker 2: been required to say much to your point, like not

701
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: necessarily of a controversial nature, but just like he I

702
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: just feel like him talking at all.

703
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: Good or bad. He just doesn't say much, like you know,

704
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: whether he loves it or doesn't like it.

705
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 3: So I'd be surprised.

706
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: But I could imagine that they have like pre recorded

707
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: content with him where maybe he's talking about teams or something.

708
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 3: I also could have seen for a while.

709
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 2: I think it's a little late to jump in with this,

710
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 2: but like Kobe was doing those things for ESPN where

711
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: he would like break down the intricacies of the game.

712
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 3: He really cared.

713
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: About that stuff. I'm not sure to what extent Michael does.

714
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 2: But again, Kobe wasn't nearly as far removed. Kobe was

715
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 2: a year or two out of the league at that point.

716
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: Michael's been gone for so long that we're different. We're

717
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: in a completely different era a basketball so but either way,

718
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 2: I guarantee you that me and probably most of us

719
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:51,479
Speaker 2: are going to want to at least see it and

720
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: be curious to see it, because, like you said, he

721
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 2: so rarely speaks.

722
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: So I'm down Chris again. I love your book Blood

723
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: in the Garden. Are you working on anything else outside

724
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: of covering a free ESPN? Are you working on a

725
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: love book?

726
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 3: I am man, I'm man.

727
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: It's coming along so slowly, and I'm so embarrassed. I

728
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 2: am working on another book. It is on another team.

729
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 2: I'm not at a point yet where i want to

730
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,240
Speaker 2: say exactly who it is, but it's.

731
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,440
Speaker 3: About the more modern era.

732
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: Some people have asked me, They're like, are you doing

733
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 2: a nextbook, a second nextbook on this era? I was like,

734
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 2: somebody beat me to the punch on that, so somebody

735
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,479
Speaker 2: else will, but mine will be on a more modern team,

736
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 2: like over the last twenty years that I'll work on

737
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: that I'm excited about, but still pretty far away from finishing.

738
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 3: So I'm excited about that.

739
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: I'm curious whether it will have the appeal that the

740
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 2: k nextbook did. Knicks fans are one of one as

741
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 2: far as just how many of them there are, how

742
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 2: passionate they are. I think people were excited to read

743
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 2: about the book that I did because that was such

744
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 2: a beloved team.

745
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 3: So we'll have to see whether.

746
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 2: We'll have to see what it was so good too,

747
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 2: Thanks brother, appreciate you like this.

748
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 3: We'll have to see whether it was funny.

749
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 2: Because when I was looking at Second Ideas, I was like, Man,

750
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 2: is there any other team Lakers aside that I can

751
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: really write about that has a fan base like that?

752
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: And maybe some do like also, that hasn't been so

753
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 2: delved into our like the Bulls obviously have been kind

754
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: of between docs and everything else. So it's hard to

755
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 2: find any team or any situation that people care that

756
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 2: deeply about with that many people caring about it. But

757
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 2: I hope people really liked it. When I'm done with it,

758
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 2: probably still at least the other year two wagh though,

759
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 2: all right.

760
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 1: Cool, well, Chris I appreciate you joining me on the

761
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: Iron Rapports Stereo podcast. I appreciate your time.

762
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 3: I man, absolutely man, I appreciate you having me. Thank

763
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 3: you for everything.

764
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: All right, I want to thank my guest, Chris Herring,

765
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: senior NBA writer for EESP and again. Knicks fans, you

766
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: should absolutely check out his book New York Times bestseller

767
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: Blood in the Garden. Miles Jordan ak The Bleach Brothers

768
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: aka the Dust Brothers. Take me out of with something

769
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: real nice, tikety, take me out of here with something

770
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: real loud, but most importantly, take me out it with

771
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: something super duper funky. Time Rapports Stereo Podcast. I'm out