1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: I was out of college. I was working in a 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 1: parking lot. I was living in the Howard Johnson's in 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: Kenmore Square, and most of the things I owned were 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: in my car. And I got stabbed and I went 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: to hospital and I needed to recover. Here I am, 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm nineteen years old. I flunked out of college. I've 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: been stabbed. I have no vision, notion, or anything of 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: a future. You know, this is not the script for 10 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: a nice Jewish boy from a good family. My grandfather 11 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: called me and he said, well, you've really done a 12 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: fine job of screwing up your life. I'd like to 13 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: help you. Are you ready to get serious? I'm Bob Pittman. 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Math and Magic Stories from the Frontiers and Marketing, 15 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: where we explore stories about the analytics and the creative 16 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: and how they come together to create marketing and business legends. 17 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: Today we're chatting with a man who's been at the 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: center of the major entertainment industry transformations of the last 19 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: thirty five years. He grew up actually at the intersections 20 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: of math and magic, stockbroker, father, writer, mother, and a 21 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: grandfather who satisfied the business and creative as a famous writer, 22 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: producer and president of MGM, and his grandmother was even 23 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: a visual artist. He's one of the co founders and 24 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: now CEO of United Talent Agency UTA, one of the 25 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:42,160 Speaker 1: bedrock Hollywood agencies. Welcome Jeremy Zimmer. Thanks so much. Lots 26 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: to talk about, but first let's break the ice with 27 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: you in sixty seconds. Do you prefer New York City 28 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: or Los Angeles? Los Angeles? Instagram or Twitter? Neither Early 29 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: Riser or night Owl very early Riser, The Beatles or 30 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: the Stones, The Stones, jay Z or Beyonce, jay Z, 31 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: Coachella Lallapaloosa, Coachella, Golf or Tennis golf. It's about to 32 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: get harder. Smartest person you know, Irving as Off, childhood hero, 33 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: franklindelin Or Roosevelt. First job working at gas station, first 34 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: job you liked working in a gas station. Hardest working 35 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: artist Kevin Hart. Last vacation fourth of July in Israel. 36 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 1: Secret talent. I don't keep any of my talents a secret. 37 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: First piece of art you bought photographed by Sally Man. 38 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: First concert Jethro tull Aqualung, Great Great tour, proudest career achievement. 39 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: U t a proudest personal achievement, raising four daughters thus 40 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: far successfully. Who would play you in a movie? Either 41 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: James Gandalfeni or Brad Pitt depends on the day and 42 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: the way I feel about myself. Movie you think should 43 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: be required viewing dead poets Society. If you can have 44 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: a super power, what would it be? Time travel? Okay, 45 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: let's go back in time. Speaking of time travel, I 46 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: think of the first time we met. I was running 47 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: in TV. You were William Morris in New York. This 48 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: is the early nineteen eighties, a time when most agents 49 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 1: thought there were only three networks, ABC, NBC, CBS. Yet 50 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 1: here you are delving into new cable networks. I think 51 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: you were the only agent that ever paid any attention 52 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: of TV and came by What led you to be 53 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: there so far ahead of others in your business at 54 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: that time. First of all, I was a movie agent 55 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: in New York City, which was, you know, like being 56 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 1: a down Parker agent in the Sahara. No one cared 57 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: what I was doing, said anybody who had, you know, 58 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: a checkbook with five d dollars in it. I was 59 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: going to go visit and see what business we could 60 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: possibly do. And I've always been curious, and I thought 61 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: what you guys were doing at MTV seems so smart 62 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: and so ahead of its time and so interesting that 63 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: I was excited to hear more about. What did you 64 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: think of the future networks at that time? And was 65 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: this about the future of networks or was it just 66 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: plain curiosity? I think it was plain curiosity. But you know, 67 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: I'd love to tell you, oh, I was thinking and 68 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: examining the future of networks and wondering about but I wasn't. 69 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: I was really thinking, like you know, I was making 70 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: a five dollars a week, how can I make a 71 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars a week? And how can I 72 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: get into studio fifty four? And how can I pay 73 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 1: for a drink on my salary? That was We're basically 74 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: the things I was really consumed with at the time. 75 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: So let me give you a contrast. Now, over thirty 76 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: years later, you showed up at podcast early. Is this locker? 77 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: Is this a unique skill you have? I think the 78 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: skill I've had is create an environment where I have 79 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: these great young people and I kind of say, hey, 80 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: you want to build something, you want to start something, 81 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: and go figure out a new area and see what's happening, 82 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: and if there's enough happening there, we'll put some resources 83 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: behind it. So we had this great guy, Orn Rosamund 84 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: and started talking about podcasting, and I thought, oh, come on, 85 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: who's gonna sit there and listen? No, no, no no, it's 86 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: really big. I said, Okay, go figure out. And so 87 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: I'd love to take credit for figuring out that podcast 88 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: was a big business. I didn't, but I took credit 89 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: for thinking Aren Rosenbaum is a really smart guy, and 90 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to give him a little bit of runway 91 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:12,600 Speaker 1: to figure it out. How early did Uren start talking 92 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 1: about it? Five years ago? Six years ago? So he 93 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: was very early, very early, and he had a lot 94 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: of support from my co founder Peter Bennedet, who you 95 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: know every day would walk in and say, I just 96 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: listen to this great podcast. And all I was thinking was, 97 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: how do you enough time to do that? But he 98 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: really fell in love with podcasting and it was very 99 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: supportive of our And during this process, when you were 100 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: looking at it early, what did you think the opportunity 101 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: might be. Well, I just thought, okay, here's a new 102 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: form of storytelling. And you know, if at a certain point, 103 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: if you don't want to listen to music, you want 104 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: to have something a little more immersive. You're going for 105 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: a long walk, you're going for a long drive. You 106 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: don't want to just listen to music, you want to 107 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: have immersive storytelling. Audio books were certainly uh big thing, 108 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: but the immediacy of a podcast, the ability to delve 109 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: into a new story and a new way, it seemed 110 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: like it could be something really compelling. So here podcasts 111 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: that surpassed against the year or so ago satellite radio 112 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 1: in terms of reach. Now there's big as the big 113 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,679 Speaker 1: streaming music services. Where do you think all that's going? 114 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: You know, I wish I knew where it's all going. 115 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 1: I just think we have a universe of people who 116 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: just want to consume ideas, endlessly, consume content endlessly. I 117 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: don't think it's all going one place. I think it's 118 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: going in multiple areas. It seems to be an infinite 119 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:31,919 Speaker 1: capacity for storytelling. And this storytelling is your ears, not 120 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: your eyes. And you've guys have done a great job 121 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: of taking and saying okay, we'll put them for the 122 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: eyes too. Yeah, how do you think about that opportunity? 123 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: Many of our artists, writers, directors, actors are looking for 124 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: compelling I P. And I think we're constantly looking for 125 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: new places to mind great I P. And if you 126 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,359 Speaker 1: have I P that also has a built in audience 127 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: where people have already heard it and gone, wow, that's 128 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: a great story. If you can then translate that into 129 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: the video medium and do its successfully, you'll have it 130 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: built in audience. So this is a podcast about marketing 131 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: and ideas. What advice do you have for other leaders 132 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: about seeing the future higher good, strong people and then 133 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: listen to them about what they are excited about. We 134 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: haven't allowed an aggressive group of young men and women 135 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: to go out and find great stories for us. So 136 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: let's explore where your insight comes from. You have all 137 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: the evidence of both nurture and nature. You have the genetics, 138 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: and you clearly had the environment. Can you spend a 139 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: little time talking about your child and the family and 140 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: what you took from all that. My mom is a writer. 141 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: She's written eight or nine novels, a published authors, She's written, 142 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of magazine articles, and she lives in 143 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: the world of story and the power of story. And 144 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: my grandfather was an author, a writer, a producer and 145 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: a studio head, and that was very rare at the time. 146 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: It's still rare to this day. Storytelling and the love 147 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: of storytelling, the love of reading was always really important 148 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: in our house, and I still love fiction and I 149 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: read a lot of fiction. I think reading fiction is 150 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: critical both in my business and in my life. I'm 151 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: a big believer that you read fiction because it helps 152 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: you develop the skill of empathy or the feeling of empathy. 153 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: But I didn't grow up in Hollywood at all. Dennis 154 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: Hopper was a family friend. I knew him, but really 155 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: my mom was a very erratic human being as a mom. 156 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: My parents were divorced early, and my grandfather, the year 157 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: I was born, moved to New York, so he wasn't 158 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: as available to me. You know, I really grew up 159 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: with this weird combination of loving stories and ideas and 160 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: hating school and any sort of organized program. So I 161 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: learned a lot just living by my wits as well. 162 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 1: This environment of being able to be thoughtful and somewhat 163 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: free wheeling and innovative against a backdrop of loving storytelling 164 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: and art makes a lot of sense for me. So 165 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: let me take you a little tangent here if the 166 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: stories are true, you worked at the gas station at fourteen. 167 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: Started working at a gas station in Malibu at fourteen 168 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: on Pacific Coast Highway and Coral Canyon. It's still there. 169 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: And I loved working at the gas station because I 170 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:13,680 Speaker 1: love the interaction of people and the ability to sort 171 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 1: of manage the business and the people in and out 172 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 1: and take care of things and learn things on the 173 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: job and how do you change a tire, patch of tire, 174 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: change the oil. All these things where things I actually 175 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,719 Speaker 1: learned how to do. It was pretty interesting. I was 176 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: halfway through my senior year in Santa Monica and moved 177 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 1: to Westport, Connecticut, where I ended up being halfway through 178 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: my junior year. I got a job working at a 179 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: gas station there, and I ended up managing that and 180 00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: closing the gas station. You know, I would go to 181 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: school and then go to the gas station, close the 182 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: gas station. This had to be a tough time to 183 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 1: move senior year going back to junior year. I mean, 184 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: I was a straight F student in my senior year 185 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: at Santa Monica High School, So it's not like, oh 186 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: my god, you're ripping me away from my valedictorian candidacy. 187 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: I mean it was like, you gotta get out of here, 188 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: You're a disaster, and they were right. You know, I 189 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: have the great luxury of having these four daughters who 190 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: you know. I mean, the most rebellious thing that they've 191 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: ever done was my oldest daughter went and got a 192 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: tattoo on the back of her neck underneath her hair, 193 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: which we didn't even discover for like two years. So 194 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm lucky. But if I had a kid like me, 195 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: I don't know what I would have done. Lots of 196 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 1: folks who've been on math and Magic are college shropouts, 197 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: so were you? And I have to disclose? So am 198 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: I Why did you drop out of college? I ended 199 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: up graduating high school miraculously, and I had very high 200 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: test scores and I got into Boston University. I only 201 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,319 Speaker 1: chose Boston University because my girlfriend at the time was 202 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: going to toughs, so I sort of looked at school's 203 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: proximate to toughts that I could get into and be 204 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: you was one of them. I really didn't like school. 205 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: I'm sure today I would be diagnosed with a d 206 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: D or a d h D or something like that. 207 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: Although I loved reading and I could do that, the 208 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 1: basic day to day of showing up, remembering what I 209 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: was told, doing the test. I just didn't like it, 210 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: and I was never good at it was always hard 211 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: for me. How many years did you do? I dropped 212 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: out of Be You or Be You and I mutually 213 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: terminated our relationship after about a year and a half, 214 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: three semesters. All these years later, do you see an 215 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: early indication of your talents ambitions dropping out of college 216 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: or do you think it was just more of a 217 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: personal experience with you. I'd love to draw some line 218 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: where I was just two entrepreneurial and two dot gard 219 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: smart for college. I don't know that it was that 220 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: I was struggling with complicated You know, I lived back 221 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: and forth with my mom and my dad. I'd had 222 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: a deep relationship with drugs and alcohol. You know, I 223 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: was trying to find myself in all the wrong places. 224 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: So is there any lesson you take from that that 225 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: you've passed on to your kids and saying, let me 226 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 1: tell you, I've learned something here. My kids have shown 227 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: me and I'm so proud to see it in them. 228 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: The capacity for hard work that's there if you're willing 229 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 1: to really give it a war all. I never thought 230 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,359 Speaker 1: I could do hard work because I couldn't do schoolwork, 231 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: so early on in my career I was afraid of 232 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: the hard work. Like I could show up and do 233 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: the hustle and do the party and do that, this 234 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,559 Speaker 1: and that, but really sitting down and thinking things through 235 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: and following through on plans and ideas. It's still a 236 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: little challenging, but back then it was really frightening for me. 237 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: So before we get into stories of you in the 238 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: agency world, when you dropped out of college, you were running, 239 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: as I understand the VALI a parking station in Boston 240 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: and you actually got stabbed during an astupted robbery. Must 241 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: be incredibly traumatic. How did that change your outlook and 242 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: or your trajectory on life. I was out of college, 243 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: I was working in a parking lot. I was living 244 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: in the Howard Johnson's in Kenmore Square. I was sneaking 245 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,200 Speaker 1: my dog in and out of the hotel, and most 246 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 1: of the things I owned were in my car. And 247 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: I got stabbed, and I went to hospital and I 248 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: needed to recover, so I had to go back home 249 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: to Connecticut with my mom. And I went back home, 250 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: and you know, I was just there and here I am. 251 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: I'm nineteen years old, I flunked out of college. I've 252 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 1: been stabbed. I have no vision, notion or anything of 253 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: a future. I don't know what it's going to be, 254 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: and I don't know what can become of me. And 255 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: I was pretty you know, this is not the script 256 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: for a nice Jewish boy from a good family. But 257 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: what happened is my grandfather called me and he said, well, 258 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: you've really done a fine job of screwing up your life. 259 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,239 Speaker 1: I'd like to help you. Are you ready to get serious? 260 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: And I said, I don't know, I think I am. 261 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: I want to try, and he arranged for me to 262 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: have an interview at the William Morris Agency. So I 263 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: interviewed at the William Morris Agency. I talked around my 264 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: lack of a college degree, which was required at the time, 265 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,079 Speaker 1: and I got into the mail room and something happened there. 266 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: It was an immediate feeling. I can still feel it today, 267 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 1: this feeling of comfort, and I understand how this works. 268 00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm going to be good at this. So tell us 269 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: a little bit about this. This is one of the 270 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: more famous clubs in the entertainment industry is the William 271 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: Moore's mail room, and there was some really famous alum 272 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: beside you in the mail room. Yeah. One of the 273 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,959 Speaker 1: other famous alums who didn't have a college degree is 274 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: David Geffen. But you're thrown in a mail room and 275 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: it's really simple. It's like, just do all these tasks. 276 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:20,400 Speaker 1: And back then there was mail, so it's a whole 277 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: other thing. And the way that the inner office communication 278 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 1: was done was through memos that were sent down to 279 00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: the mail room and copied, So you make a hundred 280 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: copies of a memo and then you distributed around the 281 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: office by hand in these mail carts. So you were 282 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: literally at the center point of all the information. Everything 283 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: flowed through you through these memos, so you you really 284 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: knew what was going on. It was like imagine if 285 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: you had all the email of everyone in your company 286 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: flowing through your office all the time and could read it. 287 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: And it was this very rich environment with a very 288 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: rich tradition. And the agents there knew that they were 289 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: supposed to try to provide idea with some mentoring and 290 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: some guidance and some opportunity. If I could just pay 291 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: attention and focus on a couple of things that I 292 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: liked something good could happen. How did you get out 293 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: of the mail room. I really wanted to be in 294 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: the publishing area, and so that was my first thing. 295 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: I wanted to be like a book agent, and I 296 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: had this ridiculous vision of myself like reading thousand page 297 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: manuscripts with like a pencil and editing and do all 298 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:26,560 Speaker 1: this stuff, which was, you know, for a guy who 299 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: probably had a d D. Would have been a disaster. 300 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,400 Speaker 1: And the good news is they didn't want me. There 301 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: was a young agent named Fred Milstein who was in 302 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: the Way Morris movie department, which again was this tiny Basically, 303 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: he was the movie department and they were giving him 304 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: his first assistant. So he and this guy George Lane, 305 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: who was in the theater department, we're going to share 306 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: their first assistant. But I'd only been in the mailroom 307 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: for like six months. And I went to interview with Fred, 308 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: and I could see his chair was broken. The ball 309 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: bearings were loose, and that share was sort of awkwardly 310 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: swiveling around. And I had my interview with him, and 311 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: then at lunch, I went into the storage thing and 312 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: I took a part of chair, took the ball bearings out, 313 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: of that chair, went to his chair, fixed his chair, 314 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: and left him a little note saying, hey, I noticed 315 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: your chair. I think I fixed it that Thanks for 316 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: the interview, and I got that job so that the 317 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: bearings began your career. Exactly why did you leave Willie 318 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: Morris and had the I c M in the mid eighties. 319 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: My mentor there at the time had moved out to 320 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, so I was in New York and I 321 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: was feeling somewhat without a mentor, and the department didn't 322 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: have a lot of focus or strength because again it's 323 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: the movie business in New York, which was not a 324 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: thriving environment. I really wanted to move to l A, 325 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: and the way moorese agency didn't feel they really wanted 326 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: me to move to l A. At the same time 327 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: I c M, Jeff Burgh was running I c M, 328 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: and he knew me, and he thought I was a 329 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: very well read and intelligent young man, and he kept 330 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: pursuing me for a job, so ultimately he offered me 331 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: a job to go out to I c M and 332 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,080 Speaker 1: be the book guy, meaning the guy who sold the 333 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: underlying movie and television rights for the books that I 334 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: seem represented. Describe Hollywood at that moment, the power brokers. 335 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 1: What did you step into? What was that world like? 336 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: It was an amazing environment because you know, it was 337 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,959 Speaker 1: still the lions of Hollywood. It was the Dan Melnicks 338 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: and the Race Starks. You know, we're sort of still 339 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: ruling the land. And you know, the guys who ran 340 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:25,880 Speaker 1: the studios were these larger than life lions, and they 341 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: still could sort of make decisions based on their gut feel. 342 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: You know, they could look in the eye of a 343 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: young filmmaker and see something special and say, sure, here, kid, 344 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: here's thirty million dollars or forty million dollars, go make 345 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: this movie. There was a lot of thirst for ideas 346 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: and new ideas and books and scripts, and there was 347 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: a lot going on, and the business was changing so much. 348 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: You had the emergence of the cable networks at HBO, 349 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: pay TV, you had home video. How was that changing? 350 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: I mean I had to disrupt the system first. It 351 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: fueled the system because there were millions and millions of 352 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: new money flowing in unabated for home video and pay TV. 353 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: So HBO made this crazy pay TV deal with Columbia 354 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: at the time, where they would just pay tens of 355 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: millions of dollars for their movies. At the same time, 356 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: you had all these movies being made based on video sales, 357 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: so they would do an estimate of what the home 358 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: video market would be worth, and that could be the 359 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: entire cost of the movie. So there was a lot 360 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: of action going on fueling this seemingly endless growth in 361 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 1: home video. There's a parallel almost today with the Netflix 362 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: and the New production. Did it feel like the world 363 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: was expanding at that moment as it does. Well, it's 364 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: interesting because today it feels the consumption is expanding, but 365 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 1: the amount of players is contracting. So that's the difference 366 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: is back then, the amount of players were expanding, so 367 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: you had so many different players coming into the market 368 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: trying to take advantage of all this home video consumption. 369 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: And now really what you have is you have this 370 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: consolidation or around these few giant players where they're really 371 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: trying to control the entire streaming universe. So while their 372 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: appetite is very big, their power is a little intimate. 373 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: It will use the analogy of the retail business when 374 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: Walmart showed up or Target and exactly war Target, Amazon, 375 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: where they sort of constrict the trade into these few 376 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: giant pillars. You were featured in a PBS frontline piece, 377 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: Hollywood Dreams. Did that help your career or did it 378 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: the jealousy? I mean, give me the complexion of how 379 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 1: that felt. It was nuts. I mean I looked back 380 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,400 Speaker 1: on that, I go, oh my god, what what could 381 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: I have been thinking? You know, I'll never forget the 382 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: night that aired. I was so afraid. And I got 383 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 1: this call from Jeff Berg who ran I c M. 384 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh boy, this is gonna be bad. 385 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: And he said, I just want to tie something. I 386 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 1: love it. He said, you are so raw and so 387 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: connected to your client, and you are so connected to 388 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: the pain of the artist. I think it's amazing. And 389 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: that was a really good wow feeling because I was 390 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,919 Speaker 1: in the middle of a battle on behalf of a client, 391 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: trying to help him keep his job and at the 392 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: same time trying to manage him through the process of 393 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 1: losing the job. It was all out there. I left 394 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:18,919 Speaker 1: it all on the field, and it was very clear 395 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: how real that responsibility is of representing an artist. Just 396 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 1: hold on a second, because we've got so much more 397 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: to talk about. We'll be back after a quick break. 398 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,919 Speaker 1: Welcome back to math and magic. We're here with Jeremy Zimmer. 399 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: Let me talk just a second about your craft. You've 400 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: been talking about story. What makes a great story? To me, 401 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: what ultimately makes a great story is can we join 402 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: this character and care about what this character is going 403 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: through and feel compassion and empathy for the characters. And 404 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: that's to me why great stories are so important, because 405 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,679 Speaker 1: it allows us to unlock empathy without obligation. With stories, 406 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: you can just feel empathy. Does it differ my medium? 407 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: I mean it differs a little bit by genre. I 408 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: don't know that we're accessing the character's heart. In a 409 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,360 Speaker 1: Marvel movie, we got some connection to who they are, 410 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: but after a while, I'm not sure that's what the 411 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 1: audience is going there for. You take a great story, 412 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: you understand the story, how do you market that great story? Well, 413 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest challenges today in the environment 414 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: we're in where there's so much noise and such a 415 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: sort of cacophony of horseshit, it's really hard. You start 416 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: so many stories down the path to tournament to something 417 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: that the consumer access is how much influence do you 418 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: have on how it's marketed? In that process. Over time 419 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: in the movie business, agents developed more and more influence 420 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: because we first of all represent our filmmakers. Filmmakers become 421 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: more powerful, but it depends on the project. Really, it 422 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,879 Speaker 1: depends on the project. A small, tough movie are the 423 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,600 Speaker 1: kind of things we can have a lot of influence 424 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: for how they're sold, how they're marketed, who distributes it. 425 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: The fight to get a beautiful small movie made is 426 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 1: a very noble fight. Not necessarily a very rewarding fight, 427 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 1: but a very noble fight. And then once you get 428 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: a distribute, you got to make sure it's distributed well. 429 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: You got to do your best. And it's a world 430 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: right now. We're spending a lot of money to market 431 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: a small movie. Doesn't make sense, and that's provided an 432 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: opportunity for Netflix and Amazon and others to come in 433 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: and turn the streaming of these smaller movies into a 434 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: real business. UTA was formed when leading artist agencies and 435 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: Bauer Benedet merged. You were a co founder with Jim Burkas, 436 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: Rob Rothman, Robert Stein, Marty Bauer, Peter Benedet that you 437 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: mentioned already what was the vision? Then, I mean, why 438 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: put it together? You must have said, we're gonna come 439 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: together and we're gonna do this what was it? This 440 00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: we wanted to be well at the time, would be 441 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: the fourth major agency. We thought there was room for 442 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: another large agency. We thought there was room for an 443 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 1: agency where younger directors or writers who wanted to be 444 00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: directors could really get the kind of representation and that 445 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: the big agencies were providing for the big directors, but 446 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: we would provide it for that next generation. That we 447 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,159 Speaker 1: were going to bet our future on finding and developing 448 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: great young filmmakers and build the agency around that core 449 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: idea writers and directors were the core principle of a 450 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: large agency. Who were some of these young talent that 451 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: you really gave a shot to well? When we formed 452 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: U t A. Some of the young emerging artists that 453 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,520 Speaker 1: we represented at the time were the Collen Brothers, Wes Anderson, 454 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: Noah Bomback who we discovered at Sundance and all of 455 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: those are still clients today. But we really recognize that, 456 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: first of all, they're incredible artists. I won't say we 457 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: were pressing it, but I think we did believe that 458 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: the studio system would want to start looking for emerging 459 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: talent and emerging directors and would be willing to take 460 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,400 Speaker 1: different kinds of chances on different kinds of material. Two 461 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: thousand and twelve, you took over CEO and UTA has 462 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: had trumenous success, three d and thirty employees, going to 463 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: a thousand with offices in New York, l A, Miami, Nashville, London. 464 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: You've both built and you've acquired. Why do you need 465 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: to do both and how do you think about both 466 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: of those? In terms of building the organization, we wanted 467 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 1: to get really good in a few areas that we 468 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: thought if we tried to build ourselves it would take 469 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: too long and we're not sure we would get there. 470 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: Sometimes buying that kind of competence and expertise is really 471 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: impactful way to do it. So the explosion of news 472 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: and news broadcasting was something we were excited to be 473 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: involved with, and we thought that we could offer opportunities 474 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: to those kinds of broadcasters. So we acquired n S 475 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 1: Being Stock, which was the largest agency representing newscasters and broadcasters. 476 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: And then we really wanted to have a speakers agency 477 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: because we thought we had so many clients who could 478 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: be valuable as speakers and thought leaders, and to have 479 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: a speaker's agency really understood that business. Don Epstein and 480 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: his firm Greater Talent were, you know, one of the 481 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: real market leaders there. So we acquired Don. So there's 482 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,679 Speaker 1: some areas like that where you can get you know, 483 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: God to get a guy who's been doing it for 484 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: thirty years, has a built in network. It makes a 485 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: lot of sense. Then there are other businesses that are 486 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: like podcasting. If we wanted to go out and buy 487 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 1: the leading podcast agency, well it didn't exist, so let's 488 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: build that ourselves. What about running a company came easy 489 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 1: to you? And what it was the hard part that 490 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: you had to learn? I mean what came easy to me, 491 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: I think was having an intuitive sense of where we 492 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: need to go and what are the things that are 493 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: going to work, and having an intuitive sense of the 494 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: people and the movement that we need to find to 495 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:52,439 Speaker 1: get where we want to go. I think the harder 496 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: part for me as we get bigger is creating a 497 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: more structured organization and understanding the need for a more 498 00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 1: structured organization. Should founder CEOs tend to like to keep 499 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: things kind of the way they are, and I'm not 500 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: gonna let go of a lot of stuff, and I 501 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: don't need a bunch of being counters running around. I 502 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: find myself sounding like that guy. I don't want to 503 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,360 Speaker 1: bunch of being counters telling me how to run my business, 504 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: but I need sophisticated accounting and sophisticated executives to help 505 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: me run my business. Well, it's toggling between those two 506 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,399 Speaker 1: mindsets that I find to be somewhat challenging. If the 507 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 1: twenty five year old Jeremy could see you now, what 508 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: would he be most surprised about. Well, he'd be really 509 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 1: happy that I'm doing as well as I am. And 510 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: he'd be really happy and surprised that I have found 511 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: a woman in my life who's my real partner, that 512 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: I've been able to raise four daughters, and that I've 513 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: been able to, you know, succeed and thrive the way 514 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: I have in this organization. I think he'd be shocked. 515 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: The twenty five year old Jeremy Zimmer was scared to 516 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,639 Speaker 1: death just hoping to become the twenty six year old 517 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:01,000 Speaker 1: Jeremy Simmer. Talk a second about spotting talent and talent 518 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: both in terms of clients and talent in terms of 519 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: people you're putting in the organization. How do you do that? 520 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: What do you think is your skill set in terms 521 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: of finding that you know. I have always thought I 522 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,080 Speaker 1: was a great talent spotter, and I still believe I 523 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 1: have very good instincts around there, although I've had to 524 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: learn that my instincts are not always right for me. 525 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 1: The key is to not be scared to make mistakes 526 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: around talent, trying to overthink that. If I find a 527 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: director or an artist or a musician, if I connect 528 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 1: to something that person is doing, let's believe in it. 529 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: I do the same thing with my own personal art collection. 530 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not looking to be wildly strategic about 531 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: each piece of art I by. I'm looking to see 532 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: something that moves me or hear something that moves me, 533 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: and then if I can see the path of how 534 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 1: I can add value, I want to get involved. Is 535 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,719 Speaker 1: there institutional structure or process that goes with spotting talent 536 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: that allows it to scale more for a business like this. 537 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: In order to be successful, an actor or a writer, 538 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: or a director or a digital arts needs many different 539 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: elements of their career to be paid attention to and nurtured. 540 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: Part of being a great agent is being able to 541 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: sell your colleagues If you believe in someone. The first 542 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: challenges to get your colleagues really believe in them also, 543 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: and if you can do that, you're gonna be well 544 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: on your way. You bring strong values to this job, 545 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,200 Speaker 1: and we go through a couple of the project impact. 546 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 1: In two thousand eleven, it was a week long effort 547 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: were employees go out into the community. Two thousand and seventeen, 548 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: you famously canceled your OSCAR party and held a United 549 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: Voices rally to express the creative communities growing concerned about 550 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 1: anti immigrant sentiment in the US. When the Harvey Weinstein 551 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: accusations were first reported, you wrote an internal memo to 552 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 1: the company expressing support for the accusers and reinforcing the 553 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: company's no tolerance policy on workplace harassment. You are very 554 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: vocal and demanding more opportunities for your female and diverse artist. 555 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: What kind of im active you've seen in and out 556 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: of your company for these strong stands as a leader 557 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,720 Speaker 1: in the organization, If you give voice to the values 558 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 1: and beliefs of your colleagues, they feel comfortable being part 559 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: of the organization. That this is an organization that stands 560 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,560 Speaker 1: for the things I stand for. I think that's really 561 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: really important and I've seen people feel comfortable here, They 562 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 1: feel comfortable being who they are, They feel comfortable expressing 563 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: whatever their culture is, whatever their preferences. This is a 564 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: place where people can be themselves and be excellent as colleagues. 565 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: And how does it affect you in terms of clients 566 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: taking that kind of strong impact. I think clients are 567 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: encouraged and excited by the stance as we take, and 568 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: they want to feel like they're with people who represent 569 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: the right values in the world and are trying to 570 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: make money and make the world a better place. How 571 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: do you mobilize the company and the clients for these actions, 572 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: because it's not just you declaring it, it's an organization 573 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 1: and a client base getting behind it. Who have an 574 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: credible team internally that runs all of our philanthropic, charitable 575 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: and sort of social initiatives. And if I'm not thinking 576 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: about something, they make sure I am. And if I'm 577 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,959 Speaker 1: not listening to what's important to the organization, they make 578 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: sure I hear it. I'm really lucky to have a 579 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,440 Speaker 1: group of people who just make sure we're doing the 580 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: right thing and looking in the right places. Now, I mean, 581 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: the canceling the Oscar party came to me one morning, 582 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: I was reading the New York Times, reading a story 583 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: about our client Oscar for Hati and the immigrant ban, 584 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: and it just came to me and I was able 585 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: to say, you know what, we're not having a party, 586 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: Let's have a rally. But then what happened is fifty 587 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: people made it happen in an incredible way. You run 588 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: a company where your agents and colleagues are also big 589 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: stars and power brokers themselves. What's it like to manage 590 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: that kind of organization. It's a really exciting and really challenging. 591 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 1: The great thing is, there's no chance I'm the smartest 592 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: person in the room most of the time, and I 593 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: have very very skilled people who are ex one of 594 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: what they do, and my job is to really make 595 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: sure they have the tools and the colleagues and the 596 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 1: services and support to do the best job for their clients. 597 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: You talk about U t A as a culture of entrepreneurship. 598 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: How does that manifest itself? In two thousand and six, 599 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: we kind of looked around and said, Wow, there's a 600 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: lot of content on the Internet. Maybe some of our 601 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: clients want to make content for the Internet. And young 602 00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: guy who had been my assistant, Brent Weinstein, I said, well, 603 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: why don't we figure that out. Let's build a business 604 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: and do that, and he put a whole business plan together. 605 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: We went out and raised some money. We made him 606 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: the CEO. He was an assistant, he began the CEO. 607 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: The business didn't work. Two thousand eight happened. We ran 608 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: out of money. That was that. But we learned so 609 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: much about how content is going to live and proliferate 610 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: on the Internet and what the levers of success will 611 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: be that Brent came back and has been running our 612 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: digital group ever since, and it's been an incredible valuable experience. 613 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: This is a podcast about marketing. You're not only the 614 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: st what of your company brand, but also very involved 615 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: in the brands of your clients. How do you think 616 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 1: about those brands and how do you think about the 617 00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: dangers to the brand? What are you watching out for? 618 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: Is you help manage these brands Today there's so many 619 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: things that can happen in a blink of an eye 620 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: that can really damage a brand. So you know, look, 621 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: our clients are humans, and they're going to have good 622 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: days and bad days, and good relationships and bad relationships. 623 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 1: And what we try to really do is help create 624 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: the right environment so that when they're putting themselves out there, 625 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: they have an understanding of what their audience thinks of 626 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,239 Speaker 1: them and wants to see, and we'll connect with Do 627 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: you track what those essential points are for each person's brand? Yeah, 628 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: we have a deep n Q department of twelve colleagues. 629 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: We have a couple of doctors of statistics and research, 630 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,720 Speaker 1: and we do a lot of deep work into people's 631 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,840 Speaker 1: social profiles. We have the first social media agent here 632 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: at u t A do spot stuff on social that 633 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: are early warning signs for problems with the brand or issues. 634 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: We try to I won't say we've been great at it, 635 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: but you know, I don't think anybody has. I think 636 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: too many things pop up that you just don't remember. 637 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: You discovered audio and podcast early on. How do you 638 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 1: use podcast to extend and even monetize these celebrity brands, 639 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,959 Speaker 1: these stars, this talent. Well, I think right now, when 640 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: we look at a talent, a celebrity or an artist, 641 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: we go what are the different buckets of opportunity that 642 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: exist for the artist, and some of them there's a 643 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: very clear opportunity for podcast. And you see, this is 644 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,440 Speaker 1: somebody who's got great storyteller. This is somebody who lives 645 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: in a world that could be very interesting compelling. This 646 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: is somebody who attracts other people in an interesting way. 647 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: We try to figure out what's the right slice and 648 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 1: the right world for you. So with Will Ferrell, as 649 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: you well know, it was Ron Burgundy and then it 650 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: was Chelsea Handler, it's a different slice. So it's trying 651 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: to figure out where can you live and what can 652 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: you talk about and what's going to make sense for 653 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,800 Speaker 1: you that your audience is going to be excited to 654 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:16,120 Speaker 1: hear about social, digital, mobile, five G streaming, subscriptions, podcasts. 655 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: The world has gotten a lot more crowded and also 656 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: a lot more connected. How has it changed how you 657 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: do business? You have to be fluent in so many 658 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: different areas and how they all inter relate and impact 659 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: each other. You have to be able to have some 660 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: understanding about how this piece effects this spieci effects this piece, 661 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: how it's all coming together, where it's breaking apart, so 662 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: that you can predict with some degree of accuracy where 663 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: things are going and where your clients should be. We 664 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:47,239 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about the consolidation of the buyers 665 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: for content. Do you think the major foundational entertainment companies 666 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: are changing, and by the way the mix of who 667 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: those are changing are we at the beginning of a 668 00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: moment that we'll look back on and say this is 669 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: when it flipped. I think I've been around long enough 670 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 1: to see that there's not a permanence. We're in a 671 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 1: moment of rapid change. And I think there is going 672 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 1: to be a few big, big guys, but then there 673 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: will continue to be more challengers coming into the ecosystem. 674 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: New ideas, the old ways of doing it will weaken. 675 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: Everything won't work, Some of the big guys will get 676 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: in trouble, little guys will come in and snatch market share. 677 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: They'll become big guys, and the constant will be that 678 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,919 Speaker 1: talent and great storytelling is going to be important. So 679 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 1: how do companies lose their way in times like this? 680 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: You've seen it, I've seen it. Companies are in a 681 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: great trajectory and then suddenly something goes wrong and they 682 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: either disappear or they lose their dominance. What is it 683 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: the causes that to happen? Well, I think they get 684 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: overdependent on one idea and one way of doing things, 685 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: or they really believe that the way They've designed their 686 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: business is the only way it can be and they're 687 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: not going to change age. And I think when you 688 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: hold on too long to one business model, you can, 689 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, get broken. I mean, Blockbuster had every opportunity 690 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: in the world to buy Netflix. But now we're gonna 691 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:16,520 Speaker 1: be this business. We're gonna be a retail business where 692 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 1: people are gonna come in. And I don't know, why 693 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 1: would we give up this great business where we buy 694 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,520 Speaker 1: somebody and rent it over and over and over again 695 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 1: for four all is that be crazy? And you know, 696 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,640 Speaker 1: you hold on too long and you get destroyed. Right now, 697 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 1: the newest smartest kids on the block or Netflix, they're 698 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: just so much smarter than everybody else, and they know 699 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: data and they have this and they have that, and 700 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,399 Speaker 1: you know, I think they have to look today at 701 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: where they are and think, well, what are the changes 702 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: we could never imagine and start imagining them. If they 703 00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: were willing to do that, they'll stay as powerful and 704 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 1: dominant as they are. If they don't, they'll come up 705 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,440 Speaker 1: against some of the challenges that Warner Brothers and Fox 706 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: and all these other guys are. On a final note, 707 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: how do you think about work life balance and how 708 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: much is your family touched by or involved in your work? 709 00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:13,880 Speaker 1: My life feels incredibly balanced because I'm passionate about the 710 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 1: things I do. I love my family, I love spending 711 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: time with them. I love my work. I love doing it. 712 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: And I think if you're passionate about where you are 713 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: and passionate about what you're doing, your life's in balance. 714 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: Is there ever a time when you can disconnect from 715 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 1: your work? Or is there every time you want to 716 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: disconnect from your work? This is my art, you know. 717 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: I don't believe that Bob Dylan is ever not thinking 718 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 1: about the next song, or that a great novelist isn't 719 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: writing while he's sitting there having dinner with you. Not 720 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: that I compare myself to Bob Dylan or a great novelist. 721 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:49,919 Speaker 1: But this is my art. It lives with me all 722 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 1: the time. I love it. We end each episode of 723 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,400 Speaker 1: Math and Magic giving a shout out to the great 724 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 1: talent math and in magic, the analytical folks, and the 725 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: wildly creative. Who is the greatest analytical person you know 726 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: or know of? The mathematician? I can't answer that question, Okay, 727 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 1: who is the greatest creative? The magician? They just come 728 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 1: up with ideas, and I consistently um blown away by 729 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: different artists at different times. Jeremy Zimmer, thank you, You're welcome. 730 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: Here are three things I've picked up from my conversation 731 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 1: with Jeremy Zimmer. One, speak up for the police of 732 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: your organization. Jeremy has written sharp memos and even fired 733 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 1: clients of a behavior he doesn't endorse because he wants 734 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,200 Speaker 1: his colleagues to know U t A backs their values. 735 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,279 Speaker 1: To embrace empathy. Not only has empathy helped Jeremy and 736 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 1: his work as an agent, but in his opinion, it's 737 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,320 Speaker 1: also the essence of great storytelling. Three. Give your employees 738 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: to space to build. Jeremy encourages his employees to investigate 739 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: new areas, and he's happy me to put resources behind 740 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: their instincts. Is how U t A got into podcasts 741 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: so early in the game. I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. 742 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening 743 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: to Math and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. 744 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to 745 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: Sue Schillinger for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which 746 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: is no small feat. Nikki Etre for pulling research bill plaques, 747 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: and Michael Asar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, 748 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,360 Speaker 1: and of course Gail Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and 749 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: everyone who helped bring this show to your ears. Until 750 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:45,000 Speaker 1: next time,