WEBVTT - From The Archive: Steve McQueen 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.159 Guess What's happening on Ruthie's Table four on the twenty 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:07.280 second of October, our brand new series with exciting guests. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.719 Just last week I interviewed Elton, John Greta, Gerwig, Ian 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:17.040 McKellen and Guillermo del Toro. Go to Apple, Spotify, iHeart, 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:20.759 or wherever you get your podcasts. See you in two weeks. 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:25.520 You are listening to Ruthie's Table four in partnership with Montclair. 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:36.040 Sitting here in the River Cafe on a sunny Monday morning, 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.239 with chefs in the kitchen making ravioli, with hiroles and 0:00:40.360 --> 0:00:43.960 waiters laying tables in the garden, the uncertain world we 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:50.120 live in feels miles away. The artist and filmmaker Steve 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.880 McQueen does not separate the world of beauty and the 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:58.680 world of suffering in any of his work political oppression, slavery, 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:03.960 sexual inequality. Steve and I met in nineteen ninety nine 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.400 when he won the Turner Prize for his radical video art, 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:12.400 and we once had dinner together with President Obama. It 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:16.480 was clear that the only person President Obama was interested 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:19.640 in talking to with Steve McQueen, and he didn't want 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.679 to share him with anyone else. Now, a few years later, 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:27.640 I finally have Steve McQueen all to myself, and being 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:35.080 a generous person, will share him with you. Steve and 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:39.319 I share a hero in Paul Robeson. We share the 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:44.080 same concerns for equality and justice and food, and today 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:47.440 we're going to talk all about that and more. Thank you, Steve, 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.960 Thank you for inviting me. Tell me about growing up 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:55.640 in London. You lived with your parents in West London 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:56.760 and what did you eat? 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.680 Yeah, we grew up. I grew up having a firstyship 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:03.760 with book West London. My relationship with food really starts 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:07.360 with the market. I was the kid who was carrying 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.440 the bags behind their mother, you know, because basically I 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:13.280 would have to go with her because you know, I 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:15.160 was the sort of detra pair of hands to carry 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:18.640 the shopping back home. Food was a way of actually 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:21.320 getting to go London because if someone had said to 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:23.120 my mother there's you know, you could get so and 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:26.040 so seabas in this market for this amount of money, 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:28.400 she will be there. So people used to talk about 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:31.399 where can they get particular kind of food and fresh produce? 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:33.200 Yeah, where was your mother born? 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.440 My mother was born in Trinidad, but she grew up 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.079 in in Grenada and my father was born in Grenado. 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:41.240 How old were they when they came to London. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.200 My mother was about fourteen fifteen, I think's about fifteen 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.639 when she came to London. I think in the early sixties, 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:49.440 and my father was a little bit older. I think 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:51.960 maybe it was about twenty one. 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:54.040 I don't know when. I think he came early sixties too, 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:55.240 but not not at the same time. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.160 And so do you think her mother had taken her 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.720 to the market. As you say, the market does introduce 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:04.240 us to a culture, that introduces us to a city. 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:06.440 It's the first place I always go when I go 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.720 to any town in any city in any country. But 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:11.800 tell me more about the smells of the market and 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.160 what it looked like for you and your mother's experience 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:15.720 of the market. 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.799 Well, in fact, what happened was that a lot of 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.639 joity of people for coming from west in this headline, 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:24.560 and they grew their own food, you know, and look 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.160 after you know, the animals and so forth and whatnot. 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.440 And fishing was a big part of the culture too, 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.799 because obviously my mother lived on the coast InCred a 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.440 place called Siteers and was a very big fishing spot there. 0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:38.160 You know, it's called a fishing village. Food was very 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:41.400 much directly sort of to do with who they were. 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:44.320 So when they came to London, of course looking for 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:47.400 good food was very important. And you know we used 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:49.760 to go to all kinds of bloody markets all over London. 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:51.600 I so I said, I met up with it. 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:54.320 I missed my football focus on a sacle because I 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:56.520 had to go to the market with my mum. It 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.400 was something which I remember, and it was all different cultures, 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.920 you know, it was, didn't you You had the sort 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.520 of you know, the Londoners and the White Londoners and 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.280 the Indian, you're the Jewish. You had all kinds of people. 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:11.520 It was fabulous. It was really kind of coolbe. 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.040 When you would come home from the market. What would 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:14.960 you eat? What would they cook from the market? 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.640 Oh, if you get dashing, you know, spinach? You know 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.000 again you know you cook? I mean my my my 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:26.479 favorite was like a nice stewed chicken. I'm not a 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.400 special thing. I'm rote just you know, Oh my god, 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:34.080 what was it? A beautiful It's like a nice stew fish. 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.400 And I used to love what was this this one thing? 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:38.800 I used to not very much. Was a vegetable? 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:41.640 What was it? It was? I love, I love. 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.760 Yeah, Yeah, it was all kinds of exotic stuff. I 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.760 mean I say exotic because it was familiar to me. 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.320 But my friends, my white friends, and what was that was? 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:51.960 This was this? Yeah? 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:53.279 Who cooked in the house? 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.440 My mother cooked, My father cooked. My father was a 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:59.960 good cooked too. He took pride in the Christmas hand. 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:01.280 That was his job. 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.200 There was a particular way of cooking, part way that 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:06.440 came from because his uncle was a butcher in the 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:07.040 West Indies. 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:08.520 So there was a particular way of cooking the hand. 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:11.719 I can't even prescribe it now, but it's close, all 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:13.599 into indented in all everywhere. 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:19.360 It was almost like sort of a ror movie. Marvelous. Yeah, 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:20.920 great cooks, great cooks. 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:23.360 Did you cook with them? Was it a family affair? 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:24.680 Would you all cook together? 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.160 I mean, I love being with my mother in the 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.520 kitchen because somehow I love to help out. I love 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:31.560 to sort of be I don't know, I love to 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.239 love that. So I can't say that I'm a great cook, 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:37.160 but I was a very good shoe chef. I am a 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:38.679 bit of a neat and tidy person. 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:42.360 Would they entertain would friends come over? Did was there 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:43.280 that feeling. 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:45.240 When people did come over? It was? It was a 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.920 lot of family and fair and well. I think most 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:49.359 of the things I used to do with the people's 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:51.320 come over with them would just listen because. 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:52.680 There was always boys that would come out that my 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:54.919 parents will never talk to us about, of course, but 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:56.839 always because adults will talk to adults. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.159 So therefore and find out about sort of how what 0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:00.800 was going on? 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:06.760 Or when you left this very comforting family meals where 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.880 you were cooked for and you ate together. What was 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:11.880 that like when you left home? Where did you live? 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.919 I was actually nearing you, guys. Actually I was in Fulham. 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:17.520 I was just around the corner from me. I was 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.720 with this girlfriend and she was great. She was a 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.279 very important girlfriend of mine. Your name was a Nuke. 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:27.720 She was a Swiss. And then she had discovered this restaurant, 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:32.599 this place called Malati, the Indonesia place and so, which 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.000 was delicious, It was gorgeous. And that was my first restaurant, and. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:37.400 She that was your first restaurant. 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:39.440 I think that was one of my first restaurants. I 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:41.200 think I was about nineteen years old. 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.679 And after that, the restaurants become part of your social life. 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:45.880 Did you love restaurants? 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:46.840 Absolutely? 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:49.560 I mean what's great about I mean, now, I suppose 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:51.480 in London it wasn't so when when I was growing up, 0:06:51.480 --> 0:06:54.479 we didn't have that was the world, I think. And 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:56.839 to be introduced to the world through food and of 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.240 course good company, that's always the main ingredient for going 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:03.080 to a restaurant, So that was wonderful. And then we 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.120 got to know. So we've got a lot of restaurants 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.279 and so we got to know I remember during that time, 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.360 this is early nineties, early nineties. Yeah, and also in 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:13.160 East End too. 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:17.160 Yeah, what about in arts school? Was that revelation? 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:18.120 Yeah? 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:22.240 I mean, you know canon bit of cheese blaodiel and baget. 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:24.880 I mean that was that was kind of like interesting 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:28.080 because again there was an addition to wet in this cheese, 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.160 I mean was crappy cheese. You know, you can imagine 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:33.440 a sort of a big block of something which they 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.320 called cheese. But getting to know cheese was interesting during 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:38.840 my time at Foundation at Chelsea. 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.320 I mean, it's a kind of interesting life change, isn't it. 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.160 Between this going to the market with your mother and 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:47.560 carrying the bag and coming home and cooking, and then 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:51.280 sitting down and eating, and then having independence and having 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:55.760 to fend for yourself and discover life out there. Did 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.200 you go home? Would you return home for the home 0:07:58.240 --> 0:07:58.800 cooked meal? 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.360 Yes? I used to love going home for food. 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:06.840 My goodness, I said, Oh, oh, my goodness, I used 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:07.520 to love it. 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.720 It's just it's just to sort of. Yeah. 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.760 It was difficult because at first it was how do 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.880 I cook? What do I cook? I was on the phone, 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:17.160 my mom, Mom, how do I do this? 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:18.840 Mom? Do I do this? My mad I do that? 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.960 So a lot of calls about making sort of soups 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.040 and things like that, and how do I season them? 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.000 Because I think it For granted, I used to be 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:28.640 a shoe hip, but I wasn't really looking. It wasn't 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.720 really studying. Yeah, so a lot of phone calls. 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:40.080 Basically back then, the River Cafe Cafe is ready for autumn. 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:45.079 Pumpkin and chestnut souper tolo dispinacci polenta and almond cake 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:49.239 and why not a telephonino, one of our favorite cocktails, 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.600 were open from nine to nine, just steps away from 0:08:52.679 --> 0:09:03.400 the River Cafe. See you there, Welcome back to River Cafe. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:07.760 Table four. In each episode, my guest reads a recipe 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:13.600 they have chosen from one of our cookbooks. We chose 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.000 spinach and peas. So would you like to go for 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.000 it and tell the world how to make it? 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:25.280 One kilogram fresh peas in their pods, extra virgin olive oil, 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:32.479 one garlic clove, peeled and diced. One dried red chili crumbled, 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:38.599 one kilogram with spinach, washed, tough stalks removed. 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.600 Pard the peas and blanche them with plenty of boiling water. 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:46.240 In Italy, no one ever cooks vegetables. 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.720 I'll only pasta. 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:53.000 So rather than blanching these peas, boil them so that 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:57.040 they almost melt together with spinach and the olive oil. 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:04.400 Gorgeous. So, now, Steve, here we are and we're going 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.800 to talk about the series that has just been on 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.240 television that we've all watched and been so moved by. 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.679 Small Acts. You tell the story of a local restaurant 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.360 constantly harassed by the police. Is that a memory or 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:22.080 is that? Can you tell me about the restaurant, the 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:23.960 politics and the series. 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.120 Sure well, The Mangrove Restaurant was a restaurant run by 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:32.319 Frank Kritchlow in lamber Grove on All Saints road, and 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:35.720 he opened a restaurant in nineteen sixty eight, and it. 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.480 Was a sort of home away from home restaurant. 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.120 You can imagine, as I said before, other people wanting 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.640 the sort of the taste of home and had a 0:10:43.760 --> 0:10:46.920 vibrancy of having sort of like many people wanted to 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.120 sort of come to a place to eat and to 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:50.839 sort of commune with each other. 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:53.840 So it was a place of refuge. 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.120 In it in a way, you know, the vibe that 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:57.480 came out of there, and it was just one of 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.520 those places which became very infectious if people wanted to go. 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.240 It was it was it was something which was which 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:05.920 was which was on the scene, and unfortunately the police 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:09.880 and the authorities that be obviously didn't like what was 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.520 happening at this place because again it was you know, 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.400 it was people from the Western Ears, it was working 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.360 class people, it was the thinkers, it was sort of 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.680 activists were coming and also the whole eploy. 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:24.439 So all these people. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:29.240 Coming to this spot and talking over food, having ideas, 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.320 and obviously that was something which the authorities didn't like, 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:35.360 and therefore they tried to disrupt, disrupted as much as 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:37.960 they could. You know, it was a case of the 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.240 people not wanting certain ideas having a foothold in the UK, 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.280 and they thought that the Mangrove was a place where 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.600 those ideas could sort of take roote. 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:49.600 There's something about doing that kind of discussion as well 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.880 over food. And one of the things that I see 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:56.120 in the restaurant is that somehow being out of your house, 0:11:56.240 --> 0:12:00.280 being away from your domestic life, being looked after, gives 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:03.440 you the chance to really focus on a conversation. Do 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:04.959 you find that in a restaurant? 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:05.760 Absolutely? 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:09.880 Absolutely, And there's a sense of I don't know what 0:12:10.000 --> 0:12:14.760 is it purpose, you're there, your present, there's another person 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.760 there in present, but also actually just a listen. It's 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:22.280 just a case of being in an environment where you are, 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:25.839 you know, you feel comfortable in order to say things 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:27.000 and listen. 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.440 And also I've talked to various people in business and 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:35.280 in film and creating movies or making deals. I mean 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.080 when I always quote is Michael Kine who said that 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:40.680 he never did a deal for a movie in America 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:44.120 that didn't take place in a restaurant, and he said 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.240 that was very Hollywood. Do you work in restaurants? Do 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.280 you'd like to meet people that you're going to work 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:50.600 with in a restaurant. 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.480 First, I love it, but that doesn't happen often. 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:57.400 I mean, I think it's sort of it's a classy 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:58.680 way to do anything, isn't it. 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:00.719 And also I love it because growing up in the 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:01.240 art world. 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.720 What was wonderful about growing up in the art world 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:08.400 is that artists never paid for dinners, never, because you're 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.320 the artist. And it was amazing. In fact, I think 0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:15.160 that's how I grew up in food in an and 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:18.040 interesting way. It was through the art world. It's completely 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:19.640 different to the film world. I mean, you know the 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.319 fact that you you know, you might get crappy sangwich, 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:23.160 you're you're you're lucky. 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:25.800 But in the art world, it was always the best wines. 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:27.040 It was always the best food. 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:29.600 You know, if it was an opening or even a meeting, 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:31.079 it was always the best restaurant. 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.160 And that was a huge education. Absolutely. 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.280 I was thinking about making movies and the movies you've made, 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.520 and of course here we are talking about food and 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.880 eating and the joy of being taken care of through food. 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.160 And then I think of the movie that you know 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.240 it was so earth shattering, which was Hunger. And so 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.440 we're talking about a movie called hunger and the state 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:59.760 of hunger, and somebody put their principles and politics above comfort. 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.199 Does a political act actually starved themselves? So what was 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.200 it like making a movie that was the absence of 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:08.960 food as a political statement? 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.120 I mean, for me, it was again it's food is 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:16.080 an interesting thing that you know. 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:19.880 I related to that in a way that of being 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.280 a child, in the way that you know, often the 0:14:23.320 --> 0:14:27.400 only power a child has is frailing to eat. His 0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:32.560 or her mother saying you're not leaving this table until 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.680 you finish that plate, and the child sort of, you know, 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:40.520 refusing to eat, and then you're sent off the bed, 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.520 you know. And it's interesting because you know what the 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:45.600 clothes you wear that as a as a child of 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:47.320 a sudden age, what time you go to bed, what 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.800 food you eat, is chosen by your parents. And the 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.600 whole idea that this child, the power this child has 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:54.320 is to refrain to eat. 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:55.200 That was my. 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.520 Relationship in some ways to Bobby Sands and Hunger Stright, 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.840 that the power that person had was referring to eat 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:02.840 ever since it was a child. I remembered asking my 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.920 mom when I saw this image of Bobby's hands on 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.680 television with a number oneth his image and asking my mother, 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.360 what's what's what is that? How oldest person is? Because no, 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.160 thats how many days this person has been a hunger strike. 0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:15.600 So there was an immediate relationship with the story and 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:17.800 it was, yeah, it was It was difficult, but I 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:20.480 think Michael Fans been there. You know why cars is 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:22.600 Bobby Sands was tremendous and that was a bond up, 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.080 you know, we have to this day. 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:27.120 It was a real kind of a labor of love. 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:30.280 And what are the food scenes in your movies? In 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.840 twelve years a Slave, there's a scene, isn't there at 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:33.640 the dinner table? 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:36.280 I seem to remember, Yeah, there's lots of I think 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:37.760 there's lots of food in my films. I mean you 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:40.440 can see after that his shame. The two characters Brandon 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.240 any sort of possible girlfriend or at this dinner table 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:47.040 and this waiter, annoying waiter comes in every five seconds 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.440 to interrupt them. I remember that from having lots of 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.680 dinners in New York and every five seconds and what 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:54.040 becomes in the middle of something was getting bigger. You 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.800 know how conversations are they have to get to that point, 0:15:57.320 --> 0:15:59.320 you know, it's always it was commercial bloody breaks every 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:01.920 five seconds, start from scratch every five minutes, so you're 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.240 didn't make for a good eating experience. 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:06.760 I put that in the movie What do You Eat 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:07.360 on a Film? 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:07.480 So? 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.480 Do you hate stopping for lunch when you're filming? 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:11.000 No? 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.520 I think it's fantastic. I mean, what was so wonderful 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.680 when I started filmmaking? And hunger and shame and obvious. 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.400 It's like all the actors and all the crew eat together. 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.600 They people in their buddy trailers and the act crap, 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:27.800 everyone lead together. There's something about communal eating and it's 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:35.640 about weed. It's such a unifying thing to see, you know, 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.320 the hear and makeup and the camera department and tubing 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.400 up for food and sitting at the table together and 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.480 talking about the film or talking about things. 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.280 When there's a camaraderie. 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.640 It's only time often when you're sort of on set 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.800 together that you had that sort of time, as you know, 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.920 when when you're sitting together eating and it's fun. 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.480 It's fun. I love it. 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:08.359 Year three is an exhibition that was at the Tate 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.720 and I went to see it three times because every 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:15.320 time I went back I saw something, something different in 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.760 the expression of a child, of a teacher. It really 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.760 told the story of the world we live in through 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:24.440 these photographs. And one of the issues that I think 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:29.040 is very important is that when we had the lockdown 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.720 a year ago, one of the things we learned that 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:35.679 when children were denied school, they were also denied food, 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.159 and they were denied food at lunchtime, which might have 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:43.720 been their only meal of the day. And the idea 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.560 that we have a society that children depend on having 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.000 their food away from the home because of the poverty 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.520 in the home is appalling and shocking and distressing everything else. 0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.480 Yes, absolutely, I mean I had schooled us, which I 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.720 paid for by my mother. That's why today I like 0:18:00.760 --> 0:18:05.119 hot meals. I love the hot lunches, I mean, and 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:07.639 they were vital. They were vital. There were children I 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.120 know for a fact that that was the main meal 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.080 of the day, if not the only meal of the day. 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:16.399 And this is with our bottle of milk in the 0:18:16.400 --> 0:18:18.639 morning before missus snatcher took it away from us. 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:21.760 Yeah, I love school meals in that way. Also, just 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.840 because we're such a good laugh in the canteen, you know, 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.679 I associate food in school with good times and I 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:33.280 can even remember the smell of it, the canteen and 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.720 the noise and the cutlery banging them together, and it's 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:37.919 so important. You know. 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:41.200 Also, people have to sort of really tip the hat 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:43.399 to Marcus l Ashford and what he did in the 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.280 sense of, you know, getting the government to sort of 0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:49.080 stand down twice about the school meals because you know 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:50.960 it can This is you know, if we can't look 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.520 after people we can't afford to eat, then I don't 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:55.920 know who we are as human beings. That it took 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:57.639 a footballer to do. That is kind of a bit 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:00.120 you know. There you go, everyone has got a step up. 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:00.639 In your own way. 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:02.760 I suppose if people aren't doing their job properly, that 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.720 meaning the government. And also don't forget this again, it's 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:07.280 just one of those things I feel that, you know, 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.919 everyone is unfortunately not brought into this world equally. But 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:14.159 if you just give someone the possibility a little bit 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.600 of a shaft of life, one doesn't know where that 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:18.879 might lead them to. So, yeah, the fact that people 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:23.120 actually have a millionaire stomach, you know in Britain, Yeah, 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:27.040 it's more than important. One thing I was very shocked 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.720 by when I was shooting in Chicago. Shooting widows was 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:34.320 how I didn't see a grocery store and a black neighborhood. 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:38.600 I didn't see any greens in a black neighbor You know, 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.920 there wasn't a green grocer's, but there was always some 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:44.720 sort of fast food place where people eat. So people 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.520 are losing this sort of heritage of food. People are 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:51.000 not aware of the food and nourishment and possibilities within food, 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:54.680 and food is politics in a way, it reverts back 0:19:54.720 --> 0:19:58.199 to what we were talking about right at the beginning 0:19:58.240 --> 0:20:02.240 of a conversation. It starts with like, in a way 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.359 markets because markets, a lot of markets are on the threat, 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:08.560 a lot of markets have closed. So this sense of 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:11.040 community's sense of comarder in a sense of sort of 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.800 love of food and love of each other is being 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:19.120