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Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukleman. This is a production of

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Speaker 1: the bear Grease podcast called The bear Grease Render, where

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Speaker 1: we render down, dive deeper, and look behind the scenes

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Speaker 1: of the actual bear Grease podcast presented by FHF Gear,

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Speaker 1: American Maid, purpose built hunting and fishing gear that's designed

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Speaker 1: to be as rugged as the place as we explore.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the bear Grease Render Podcast, where we break

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Speaker 1: down the actual bear Grease podcast. Our documentary style audio

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Speaker 1: podcast that is in depth, research polished, produced intriguing stories

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Speaker 1: about rural American life and on the bear Grease Render,

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Speaker 1: we gather around an eclectic group of people to discuss

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Speaker 1: the previous week's podcast. So welcome to all you knew

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Speaker 1: people I have with me today. Brent Reeves, Lauren Molton

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Speaker 1: of Meat Eater, longtime Meat Eater videographer, and Big Dirty

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Speaker 1: Dave Gardner also pretty long time videographer of meat Eater.

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Speaker 1: Great to have everybody.

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Speaker 2: Great to be here.

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Speaker 1: How does it feel to be here?

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Speaker 2: It feels wonderful, especially when you have freshly killed the

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Speaker 2: big old Missouri turkey.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we're going to get into that. Brent was

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Speaker 1: telling me just a minute ago. He was singing a song,

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Speaker 1: And I asked him how many live concerts he's been

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Speaker 1: to in his life? Give me the top three best

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Speaker 1: concerts that you've ever been to?

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Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, I would have to say Whaling Jennings

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Speaker 2: Win and where nineteen eighty two, Pine Bluff Convention Center,

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Speaker 2: Pine Bluff, Arkansas. Wow. Uh? Eagles really when the Eagles

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Speaker 2: came back ninety something? I don't remember, okay, but that

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Speaker 2: was at war Men Worial Stadium in Little Rocky Eagles.

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Speaker 1: So Whaling Jennings Eagles number three. I'm going to ask

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Speaker 1: you guys this gosh on three.

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Speaker 2: Maybe Tom Petty, Man.

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Speaker 1: Tom Petty, When did you see Tom Petty?

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Speaker 2: Saw Tom Petty the last year he was touring. I

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Speaker 2: may be partly responsible for him dying, but.

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Speaker 1: Tom Petty's dead is a hammer, Okay, he is, Okay,

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Speaker 1: And now tell me about I asked Brent if he'd

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Speaker 1: ever been if he'd ever seen Elvis, and he said no.

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Speaker 2: We had the chance to see him a year before

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Speaker 2: he died, and tickets were left dollars and mamas that

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Speaker 2: she couldn't afford tote all of us, so we didn't

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Speaker 2: get to go. But I'm thinking she could have left

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Speaker 2: everybody home with me and her. How old were you

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Speaker 2: I would have been, that would have been in I'd

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Speaker 2: have been eleven eleven? Okay, cool?

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Speaker 3: Lord, Yeah, that's cool.

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Speaker 1: Live concerts do you go? Have you been to some

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Speaker 1: live concerts?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Uh top two.

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Speaker 3: As I was a younger guy, I went to a

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Speaker 3: lot of concerts, and then I've worked the concerts scene

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Speaker 3: through the last fifteen years. Work at the venue venue

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Speaker 3: at the brewery that I worked at, so we had

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Speaker 3: tons of big names come through there. Crosby, Stills, nashuh,

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Speaker 3: Widespread Panic. I don't know, millions of decembris, a ton

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Speaker 3: of concerts. But if you're asking me favorites, I don't know, Man,

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Speaker 3: this is gonna shed some light on me.

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Speaker 1: Uh oh, I'll just.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I can pinpoint favorites. Ok, favorites,

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Speaker 3: That is hard. But the first show I ever saw

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Speaker 3: with Steve Miller band that was pretty cool. I think

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Speaker 3: I was about fourteen years old.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Then saw Eric Clapton and Stevie ray Bond's last show

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Speaker 3: there at Elpine Valley, Wisconsin. That was pretty incredible. Went

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Speaker 3: to a bunch of Grateful Dead shows when I was

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Speaker 3: in high school. Okay, that was fun, Dave. So they say,

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Speaker 3: I don't remember.

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Speaker 4: It the best concert I've ever met, too, it was

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Speaker 4: probably I don't remember it much because I I think

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Speaker 4: I was only three years old, wow, three, and my

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Speaker 4: parents were real into country music and Garth Brooks came

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Speaker 4: to the state Fair. My parents had me decked out.

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Speaker 4: I was reel into Garth at the time. Parents had

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Speaker 4: decked me out and you know, my little cowboy uniform,

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Speaker 4: and we had like really good seats, like fifth or

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Speaker 4: sixth row. Some lady gave me a rose to give

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Speaker 4: to Garth, and my parents put me on the shoulders

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Speaker 4: some bodyguard that was about seven feet tall, and he

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Speaker 4: walked me up to the stage and everybody's like giving

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Speaker 4: Garth gifts and stuff. And I hand him this rose

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Speaker 4: and he waves to somebody on the side of the

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Speaker 4: stage and the guy brings out a guitar. He signed

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Speaker 4: it and gives it to me.

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Speaker 3: No wow, yeah, yeah, that's still got it.

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Speaker 1: This feels like a setup for Dave to tell.

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Speaker 5: You, man, my wife, if we kill for that guitar. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: well it's for sale some loans, you know, for the

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Speaker 5: right price.

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Speaker 1: So when you were three years old, decked out in

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Speaker 1: your your western wear. Yeah, Garth Brooks gave you a

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Speaker 1: sign of guitar.

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Speaker 4: Yes, sir, that's money. Yeah, still at my parents' house.

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Speaker 1: Is it for real?

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Speaker 2: For so?

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Speaker 4: I'd sell it for the right price, right give ballpark.

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Speaker 4: Garth's got to retire though, you know, I think he's

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Speaker 4: probably still giving out guitars, so I gotta make sure he's.

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Speaker 1: Now we're looking at ten grand plus.

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Speaker 4: Probably, yeah, whatever it is.

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Speaker 1: I would you take nine?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, probably not, Probably wouldn't take.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, would you sell it for twenty?

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Speaker 4: Probably?

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Speaker 1: So we're looking okay, folks between ten and twenty thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: There, specifically to my wife, So you might as well

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Speaker 2: say alexis.

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Speaker 3: Instead of okay, Oh highest better.

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Speaker 1: That's good. That's good. So later we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about the new the new Burgers series called con Man.

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Speaker 1: That's what we're that's the direction that we're going. But

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Speaker 1: before we get there, Brent Reeves, longtime longtime burg Grease

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Speaker 1: Render guy and friend of mine. You have a new

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Speaker 1: Meet Eater podcast out.

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Speaker 2: Is that crazy?

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Speaker 1: It is crazy?

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Speaker 2: What were they thinking?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this country life with me? Brent Reeve, Brent Reeves.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, tell so tell us what this country life is

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Speaker 1: a Well.

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be about just hunting, fishing, just general country living.

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Speaker 2: Everything that goes on, if it can be thought of

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Speaker 2: or it's happened in rural America, it's on the list

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Speaker 2: and it's fair game and we're gonna be talking about

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Speaker 2: that and we're gonna be talking about things that will

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Speaker 2: air quotes help you beat the system.

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Speaker 1: So tell me the structure of the podcast, because it's great.

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Speaker 1: I love the structure of it.

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Speaker 2: It'll start out with like I'm gonna do a little

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Speaker 2: intro and talk about tell folks what we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about in the main subject, and then I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: tell a story, like a five minute story, something happened

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Speaker 2: in my life to me or about me or someone

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Speaker 2: I know, and it may relate to the subject we're

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Speaker 2: talking about, it may not. It may just be a

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Speaker 2: story I like to tell, and then we'll get into

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Speaker 2: the main subject and get that covered. The whole thing's

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Speaker 2: gonna last about twenty minutes, so.

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Speaker 1: It's a very short listen and it's a monologue monologue

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Speaker 1: with the Brent, and it's going to cover country skills.

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Speaker 1: So when you listen to it, you're going to gain

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Speaker 1: a country skill, but you're also going to get a

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Speaker 1: lot of great stories. And it's funny. It's not a

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Speaker 1: comedy bit, but it's designed to be funny, entertaining stories

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Speaker 1: that teach you a country skill that will help you

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Speaker 1: beat the system.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's uh, and they're all true. I'm not

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Speaker 2: making up any of it. It all happened to me

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Speaker 2: or someone I know.

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Speaker 1: I think we should go ahead and tell them what

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Speaker 1: some of the episodes are. I think we can leak

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Speaker 1: that information. What do you think?

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Speaker 2: Sure?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 2: Some of them be like how to train, how to

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Speaker 2: pick out a squirrel dog where you go to do that,

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Speaker 2: how to catch catfish on the troidline.

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Speaker 1: So one episode is how to transcroll Dog. So that's

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Speaker 1: what you'll see, how to transcrod off. But when you

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Speaker 1: listen to it, you're gonna hear us some great couple

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Speaker 1: of unique story worries about Brent's life in the in

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Speaker 1: the squirrel dog world and his dad's stories. And then

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Speaker 1: he's going to go into how to find a squirrel

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Speaker 1: dog how to train it.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've had a habit. I can remember everything

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Speaker 2: but math and anything time but that we're talking, you

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Speaker 2: and I are talking, I'll remember a story. I'll be

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Speaker 2: reminded of a story, and then we go off on

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Speaker 2: a tangent and I'll tell a five minutes story about

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Speaker 2: something that happened. That's more or less how that thing's

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Speaker 2: going to go. I'm going to start out with the story,

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Speaker 2: and then we're going to start Then we're going to

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Speaker 2: start with the subject of what we're going to talk about,

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Speaker 2: Say it's finding a squirrel dog where you go to

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Speaker 2: do that, and I'm gonna give you tips on how

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Speaker 2: to do that, and then through there, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: throw in some anecdotal stuff that has happened to me

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Speaker 2: or my dad or my friends or something that will

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Speaker 2: relate to it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So another episode is how to run a trot line,

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Speaker 1: so country skills. You need to know how to run

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Speaker 1: a trot line. There's a podcast on duck camp etiquette,

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Speaker 1: so how to handle you yourself if you're in a

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Speaker 1: duck camp because Brent was an outfitter for twenty six years.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: There's a podcast on what a country man needs to

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Speaker 1: carry in his pockets and it's a whole podcast is

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Speaker 1: about what you have in your pockets. Very interesting. We

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Speaker 1: have a podcast about how to buy a pickup truck, Lauren,

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Speaker 1: your one day, your son is going to be like,

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Speaker 1: he's going to need a truck, and if he listens

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Speaker 1: to this podcast, he's going to have a leg up

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Speaker 1: on knowing the ins and outs, what the way people

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Speaker 1: treat their trucks, the way they handle selling a truck,

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Speaker 1: and this is going to give him a skill that

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Speaker 1: he's going to need. Very valuable. Okay, So yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the kind of stuff it is. But it's fun. It's

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Speaker 1: a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: And so and if you subscribe to beggar As, you're

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Speaker 2: automatically going to get it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's on this feed. So if you're listening

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Speaker 1: to this, you're subscribe most likely to the Bear Grease

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Speaker 1: podcast feed and it'll be on there.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: So this is this is big news.

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Speaker 2: It's been a lot of fun.

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Speaker 1: Big news, big news.

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Speaker 4: Soon it might be Bear Grease on the This Country

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Speaker 4: Life feed.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's probably what's gonna happen. Probably what's gonna happen, Brent,

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Speaker 1: how do we come up with the name of This

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Speaker 1: Country Life?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember we were sitting in a restaurant you're.

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Speaker 1: Sitting at Herman's Steakhouse and Fville, So.

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Speaker 2: You missed in in my wife tablecloths.

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Speaker 1: This this place is a famous steakhouse. It's in Fayetville, Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: Fable is a nice town. You would drive past Herman's

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Speaker 1: and you would think that it was an abandoned building.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like a bomb shelter.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's an old house. Yeah, that sets in

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Speaker 1: a part of town that has now been developed. But

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Speaker 1: then there's just this old house sitting on the road

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Speaker 1: and they've actually fixed it up a lot from what

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Speaker 1: it was like, yeah, twenty years ago.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been on a staple for people going to

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Speaker 2: razorback games for years.

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Speaker 1: You would think that you would drive past it and

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Speaker 1: it's clear that it was once a residential house and

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Speaker 1: now all this big stuff is growing up around it.

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Speaker 1: And they have, you know, this like neon sign that

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Speaker 1: says Hermans, and the parking lot will just be full

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Speaker 1: of cars. And it's a steakhouse. And you go in

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Speaker 1: there and there's these red table red checker tablecloths and

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Speaker 1: they give you salting crackers and salsa. Have you ever

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Speaker 1: heard that? Have you ever had that before?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: Sir, I never have either. Have you ever had it before?

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Speaker 2: Hermans is only place I've ever done.

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Speaker 1: They give you a big bowl of fresh salsa and

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Speaker 1: salting crackers like a Mexican restaurant. We give you chips

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Speaker 1: and sausage, and then you order steaks and whatnot. And

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Speaker 1: Missy and I were eating dinner with Brent and his

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Speaker 1: wife at Herman's yep at Herman and then what happened Brent.

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Speaker 2: Well, you looked up and said you ought to do

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Speaker 2: a podcast, and I thought, what in the world about?

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Speaker 2: And that's all I know is just country living is

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Speaker 2: all I know about? And you said, there it is

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Speaker 2: right there. It kind of evolved from that in that conversation,

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Speaker 2: and then we started putting some stuff together, getting some ideas,

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Speaker 2: and it came together pretty pretty quick.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we we had we had an idea of

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Speaker 1: this country life and yeah it all. I bet the

256
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Speaker 1: podcast is pretty close. The finished version of it is

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Speaker 1: pretty close to what we developed at that table that night.

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Speaker 1: Oh and I can't take Misty and Alexis were.

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Speaker 2: Very much, so, very much so. Yeah, it wasn't just

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Speaker 2: me and you. No, they had the ideas about just

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Speaker 2: like the format and the length and whether or not

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Speaker 2: I'd be talking to people or just talking, and it

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Speaker 2: just it grew from that. It didn't grow much from that.

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Speaker 2: We just kind of refined it a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So let us know what you think of

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Speaker 1: the podcast. It's going to come out every Friday, So

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Speaker 1: it's going to be weekly every Friday.

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Speaker 3: We got a sneak peek on the boat yep, and

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Speaker 3: I thought it was all. It was great. You should

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Speaker 3: take a listen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, man. It's a lot of fun doing it.

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Speaker 2: Got a lot of good folks working on it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So we're in Missouri at Turkey Camp. We've come up

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Speaker 1: to a place that Brent has hunted for last twenty

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Speaker 1: five years, five plus years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a long time.

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Speaker 1: You got some family, you got some friends up here

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Speaker 1: that's been kind of like family to you for a

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Speaker 1: long time.

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Speaker 2: Long time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And this morning you killed a turkey. You and

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Speaker 1: Big Dirty We did tell me about.

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Speaker 2: It, man, Win. As you know, the wind was blowing

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Speaker 2: this morning as hard as it could blow, I think.

285
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Speaker 2: And on our fourth setup, on the second turkey that

286
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Speaker 2: we sat down on, we finally got him to hear us.

287
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Speaker 2: We had we'd snuck into a place and in this

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Speaker 2: field where this turkey was, and he was just kind

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Speaker 2: of just over a terrace row from us. There's a

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Speaker 2: little bit of a little bit of topo up here,

291
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Speaker 2: so it allowed us to get up to the edge

292
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Speaker 2: to where we thought this turkey was. And Dave actually

293
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Speaker 2: slipped up around some cedar trees and looked over that

294
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Speaker 2: ter stroke and see that turkey down in there. This

295
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Speaker 2: is nine twenty at that time, and he said he

296
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Speaker 2: was just gobbling his brains out. And he come back

297
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Speaker 2: and sit down and grabbed a camera and we started

298
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Speaker 2: calling it. We had a lull in the wind enough

299
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,960
Speaker 2: that I could get some called out to him, and

300
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Speaker 2: he answered, and then it was just as fast as

301
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Speaker 2: he could struck coming to us. And of course he

302
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Speaker 2: seen the decoyd and he came right on in there

303
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Speaker 2: and went They had a little boxing match out there.

304
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Speaker 2: And I told Dave when I shot him, you know,

305
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Speaker 2: he was boxing that Jake Decoy. The bad thing about

306
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Speaker 2: it is that he went to glory thinking that that

307
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Speaker 2: Jake killed him.

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Speaker 4: Hmm.

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Speaker 1: That's good. So Lauren and I this morning had a

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Speaker 1: we should have been in the same situation. We were

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Speaker 1: hunting the edge of a big cor cornfield and the

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00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,360
Speaker 1: birds they roosted in the spot we didn't think they were,

313
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Speaker 1: and so we were kind of set up in the timber.

314
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Speaker 1: They weren't in the timber. They were out on the

315
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Speaker 1: edge of this cornfield. So right at daylight, you know,

316
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Speaker 1: just about fly down time, we kind of got out

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Speaker 1: and put a decoy out about twenty yards in the

318
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Speaker 1: edge of this big field. Two adult gobblers and several

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Speaker 1: jakes go out into this cornfield and they're just around

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Speaker 1: a little hump from us. We can't see them, but

321
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Speaker 1: they're goblin. And I start and I've got decoys out

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Speaker 1: and we're on the edge of the timber and everything's good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I start calling. They answered, They answer, the answer,

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Speaker 1: the answered. Just the harder I called, the more I called,

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Speaker 1: I was calling my mouth calling a slate call, the

326
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Speaker 1: more they got fired up. And sure enough we just

327
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Speaker 1: hear him getting closer and closer, big gobbler, and finally

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Speaker 1: we see him strutting out there at probably two hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty yards and he sees the decoy and here

330
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Speaker 1: he comes, just running, and I mean, we just think, well.

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Speaker 2: Here we go.

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Speaker 1: We've got a jake, a half struck jake, in a

333
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Speaker 1: sit down hen and he sees him and everything's good,

334
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Speaker 1: and he comes up over the hill and is running

335
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Speaker 1: and then but directly behind him are four jakes about

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Speaker 1: fifty yards behind him. That the closer he gets to us,

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Speaker 1: he comes into one hundred yards, and I think those

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Speaker 1: jakes spooked him because he stopped and he kind of

339
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Speaker 1: started looking behind him, and then he cut hard and

340
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Speaker 1: made a big loop and just kind of disappeared, and

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Speaker 1: those jakes ended up coming in. Uh, they didn't come

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Speaker 1: all the way in, but Uh, Anyway, the more I

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Speaker 1: think about Lauren, I think that it's possible that they

344
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Speaker 1: they saw us. What do you think, or just didn't

345
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Speaker 1: like we were head pretty good. We were by some

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Speaker 1: falling logs and whatnot.

347
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we were concealed pretty well. I don't know.

348
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Speaker 3: I mean, who knows. It could have been any but

349
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Speaker 3: this bird.

350
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Speaker 1: So the big gobbler peels out and then the jakes

351
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Speaker 1: come in to probably one hundred yards and just and

352
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Speaker 1: I'm not really trying to call them in, and they

353
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Speaker 1: kind of fade off, and then we start calling again

354
00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,400
Speaker 1: and that same gobbler comes back. The jakes are gone,

355
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,360
Speaker 1: and so now he's coming back alone, and I think, oh, good, well,

356
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 1: he'll got him, got him. He comes back in to

357
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Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty yards and stands in the same

358
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 1: spot for no less than twenty five minutes and just

359
00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:35,119
Speaker 1: gobbles every time I call, every time a crow calls,

360
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,159
Speaker 1: every time another turkey gobbles and just stands there and

361
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Speaker 1: watches our decoys for thirty I mean, for so long.

362
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,119
Speaker 1: I thought to myself, this is going to be this

363
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 1: is going to take a long time for him to

364
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Speaker 1: ever get here. And he finally skirted off and around

365
00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,320
Speaker 1: got onto this other field. We circle all the way

366
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Speaker 1: around him, like walk probably close to a half mile

367
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Speaker 1: to get complete the opposite side of him, and I'm

368
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 1: losing the jake. I think he's afraid of the Jake decoy,

369
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,960
Speaker 1: That's what I think. So I just stake out the

370
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,360
Speaker 1: single hen and think, oh man, he'll come now, and uh,

371
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:14,240
Speaker 1: because I'm on the opposite side of him the way

372
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,680
Speaker 1: he kind of was wanting to go, it was great

373
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 1: called and uh he gobbled, gobbled, gobbled, gobbled, but never

374
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: would move an inch, just sat on the edge of

375
00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 1: that field, just watching where we were, and we're just

376
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,200
Speaker 1: gobble at us. And then he just walked away.

377
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 2: I don't there's a hard to kill right there.

378
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,440
Speaker 1: Two year old turkey probably that's been roughed up by

379
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,919
Speaker 1: Jake's I mean it's on private land, so it's not

380
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,879
Speaker 1: like he's been messed with. We're the first part people

381
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 1: to hunt that place this year, right, So I can't

382
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,480
Speaker 1: understand it, but uh yeah, these field turkeys to kill

383
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:50,600
Speaker 1: him in the timber Man.

384
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,520
Speaker 2: It's hard. It's really hard. It's fine to see him,

385
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 2: it isn't. And if you're calling, you know a lot

386
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,159
Speaker 2: of times, you know, I'm not a fan of decoys,

387
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 2: but if you're hunting fields, got to have them. Yeah,

388
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,360
Speaker 2: because when they get to where they can see where,

389
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 2: they know where that calling is, and they can tell

390
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 2: within you know, a turkey can tell within a foot

391
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 2: where that racket's coming from. And they don't see a

392
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 2: hen there. Yeah, they ain't coming. Lots of times they ain't. Yeah.

393
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we got one more day here, we got

394
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Speaker 1: one more day.

395
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Speaker 3: We'll get it done.

396
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna talk about it. Wendy Tuesday. You don't

397
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 2: want to talk about Tuesday night.

398
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,040
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna embarrass you.

399
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 2: You ain't gonna embarrass me.

400
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:30,360
Speaker 1: Go ahead, tell them.

401
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 2: Well, Tuesday morning, it all worked out, worked out great,

402
00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:37,639
Speaker 2: just like we thought it was going to. Had turkey

403
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 2: goblin on the roost. He answered us from the roost,

404
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 2: flew down from the roost, and we watched him on

405
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:50,639
Speaker 2: film walk two hundred and fifty yards, gobbling and strutting

406
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,240
Speaker 2: every step of the way, all the way into thirty

407
00:20:53,280 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 2: five yards. I'm having a flashback right now and when

408
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 2: I pulled the trigger the first time and the second time,

409
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,600
Speaker 2: what's he doing? As far as I know, he's still

410
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: doing it.

411
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: I think he flew to Mexico.

412
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 2: I think he did.

413
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:17,600
Speaker 4: I think we spoke him this morning.

414
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we walked under one this morning, and I

415
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 2: mean on the same limb.

416
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: So so I was up about thirty yards in the

417
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 1: woods let's just say north of Brent because it was uphill,

418
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,280
Speaker 1: and the idea was I was going to call a

419
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: little bit back in the timber and this bird was

420
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: going to come through this field. And it worked out

421
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: incredibly well.

422
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 2: Hey, we couldn't have drawn it up any better.

423
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: And I would, I would learn that Brent thought I

424
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: was overcalling way too much.

425
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 2: I was. I was about to have a stroke.

426
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 4: I was sitting there just shaking no stop.

427
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,200
Speaker 2: No, I was thinking about being miked up. I thought, well,

428
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 2: they're going to listen to this and I'm not just

429
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 2: shaking my head.

430
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: No, no, you know that's the problem with turkey hunting

431
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 1: with people. There are about one hundred ways to skin

432
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,360
Speaker 1: a cat. And you know who the person that I've

433
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:12,040
Speaker 1: hunted with that calls, he would call more than my

434
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,199
Speaker 1: If I had a ten year old Baron Neukem with

435
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 1: a box call, Yeah, you know.

436
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 3: Who that was.

437
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 2: You told me this morning.

438
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: Wilber Primo. They down there, they say that he'll leave

439
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,719
Speaker 1: yelp marks on one after he kills him.

440
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 2: Well, you know that's how they when they started out,

441
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 2: and there's some of their first videos of what they said.

442
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: You know, the people are going to say, we called

443
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 2: too loud and we called too much. Well.

444
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: I was raised by or I was mentored by some

445
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,320
Speaker 1: really well Scott Brown's really who I would say, taught

446
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: me a lot about turkey. Henton Gary Nukomb taught me

447
00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 1: the foundations of turke Inton. But Scott Brown taught me

448
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 1: a lot about turke Hinton. And man, he'd he'd rather

449
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: yelp a three note yelp and sit there and have

450
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,640
Speaker 1: him come in. I mean, but we're hunting public land

451
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 1: tough turkeys. Yeah, and I mean pretty much. He says,

452
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: if a turkey knows where you're at, you don't need

453
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: to be calling to me.

454
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. My dad, my brother's dad and law mister Billy Bryant,

455
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: who mentored all of us on how to on how

456
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 2: to kill turkeys, and he's killed a passle of them.

457
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 2: It was three yips and lay your call down.

458
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 1: Yeah.

459
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 2: He said, you know, if that turkey ever answers you,

460
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:26,400
Speaker 2: you stay at that tree sometime during the day, he's

461
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 2: going to come by there.

462
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

463
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,400
Speaker 2: And he's Keith killed a lot of turkeys just like that.

464
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 1: Uh. Well, I knew you. I knew you thought I

465
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: was calling too much. And then word on the street

466
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: is I don't call enough.

467
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 2: Yeah I heard that too.

468
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's another hunts in Missouri.

469
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

470
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he was like that dude doesn't call enough. Man,

471
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: I was calling at that turkey like crazy.

472
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you were Wilbury and Primost this morning.

473
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: We did that morning before when our friend was with us.

474
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: Great guy.

475
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

476
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: Uh and so you know, anyway, me.

477
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 2: And Dave did that this morning. We were letting it rip.

478
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh like it. Hey, oh really, So we had

479
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: this conversation yesterday because Brent said you called way too

480
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 1: much and it worked great except for his shooting exactly.

481
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: And then and then the next day the word on

482
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: the street was I didn't call enough. That's all I

483
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,239
Speaker 1: can say about that, And so Brent was like, uh,

484
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: Brent was what did you say? You h I'm trying

485
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: to remember how it all went down. Anyway, we were

486
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 1: talking about calling and anyway about the reason why you

487
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: called so much up here. Well, somebody told you at

488
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: the gas station that, oh, you got to call these turkeys.

489
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 2: Up Oh yeah, he did. I was getting a tire

490
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: fixed he told me.

491
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: That's what he said, you got to call these turkeys

492
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: up here. Well, this morning, when those birds were out

493
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: in that cornfield, I've never called so much of my life.

494
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: I was calling with two calls at the same time.

495
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: I wasn't even waiting for one to finish. I mean,

496
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,080
Speaker 1: they thought something bad was going on. And the more

497
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: I did it, the more they got fired up and

498
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: came yeah. I mean maybe they're.

499
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 2: Right, that's some truth to it.

500
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, so you missed the turkey at thirty five yards.

501
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: We're not exactly sure what happened.

502
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 2: No, I think my shotguns shooting a little local.

503
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: Well, and you were using some shells that we decided

504
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 1: we don't like.

505
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like them. I'm shooting. I went back

506
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,520
Speaker 2: to my old favorites this morning.

507
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: You're shooting some number nine bismuth. Yeah, and in there

508
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: it's not tungsten tungsten. Yeah, And it was just a

509
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 1: that number nine is a very small pellet and I

510
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 1: mean you yeah, anyway, we did, we decided after we

511
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: we decided we didn't like that.

512
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like the number five. That's what I went

513
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 2: back to this morning and it worked. Five.

514
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Con Man, Lauren? What does so? The title

515
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,960
Speaker 1: of this series is, it's called con Man, and it's

516
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,880
Speaker 1: about a man named Asa Carter. If you hadn't listened

517
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: to the podcast, this isn't gonna make any sense. You

518
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: need to go back and listen to the episode titled

519
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: con Man The Education of Little Tree And what what

520
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: does con Man mean? Lauren?

521
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 3: Con Man is a confidence man short for confidence man,

522
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 3: but the definition is a man who cheats or tricks

523
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 3: someone by gaining the trust or persuading them to believe

524
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:33,680
Speaker 3: something that's not true. Mm hmm ah. Lots of fun

525
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 3: little other words that go along with con Man, like

526
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 3: what was it? Uh, they're all listed here. Another word crook, hustler, swindler, bunko, bilker, bilkerker.

527
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, you ever heard that day like you built somebody

528
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 2: out of some money. You gotta watch those.

529
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 3: Old grift hustle, bunko. I've never heard of bunko either, swindle,

530
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 3: flim flam, gaffle, bamboozled. And then the victims of those

531
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 3: people are mark suckers, stooges, mugs, rubs, or gulls. Okay, okay,

532
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 3: but confidence man is kind of the deal confidence man.

533
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, so so as Carter. He could have been called

534
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: a lot of things, but con man is a pretty

535
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: good description of what he did the last part of

536
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 1: his life when he became Forrest Carter. And on the

537
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: next episode, the whole thing is about Forrest Asa Carter,

538
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 1: and it's about why he did what he did, some

539
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 1: of the details of his life, the details of the ruse.

540
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,920
Speaker 1: It wasn't just a pen name, and I think that's

541
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: what this first episode gave a little bit of information

542
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: on the author of the Education of Little Tree, Forrest Carter,

543
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 1: who wasn't Forrest Carter at all, but was actually Aci Carter.

544
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: And then we revealed that Asad Carter was a vehement

545
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: white supremacist and had a radio broadcast produced over one

546
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: hundred radio episodes that were very kind of wild, you know,

547
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: racial stuff. And he had a print publication he led

548
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 1: his own sect of the KKK that was called the

549
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: Original Sons of the Confederacy. So it was like he

550
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: was like saying, hey, the normal guys, aren't that aren't

551
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: the real deal, Like we're the real deal. And he

552
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: was a speechwriter for George Wallace, which we revealed on

553
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: the podcast. And but he wrote this book under this name,

554
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: Forrest Carter, and it wasn't just a pen name. We'll

555
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 1: learn that wasn't just a pen name. He actually turned

556
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: into Forrest Carter. It changed his life, changed the way

557
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 1: that he talked, changed, the way that he dressed. Was

558
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: Forrest Carter to everyone. And then he died when he

559
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: was fifty four. But he wrote The Education of Little Tree,

560
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: which is essentially an adolescent book. It's kind of like

561
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: a where the Red Fern Grows book, and it was

562
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: really a unique situation that rarely happens in literature, very

563
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: rare that a book would posthumously, like after the death

564
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 1: of the author, would go on the New York Times

565
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: bestseller list. So the book was published in nineteen seventy

566
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: six originally and it just had minimal fame or minimal

567
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: it didn't do that well. I think they printed five

568
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 1: thousand books at some university press, and then the book

569
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: began to just have this like grassroots grassroots exposure. And

570
00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: then it was reprinted in nineteen eighty eight somebody else,

571
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: and then in nineteen ninety one it went on the

572
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: New York Times bestseller list and was put on Oprah

573
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: Winfrey's Book club list, and it was on trajectory to

574
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 1: be an American classic, American adolescent classic, like Where the

575
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,479
Speaker 1: Red Fernt Grows. Kids were reading it in schools all

576
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: across the country. It was this book that was just

577
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: full of wisdom, moral lessons, and it was intriguing to read.

578
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,959
Speaker 1: And it was written by this man that was a

579
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: Cherokee Indian that was believed and so the story was

580
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: just fantastic and people loved it. And then I'll give

581
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 1: you a little spoiler alert. Doctor Dan T. Carter, my

582
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: guest on the podcast Relation No relation to Asa Carter.

583
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: You guys thought that was a little confusing, all the

584
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 1: Carter's card this Carter that, which is true. But Dante Carter,

585
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: I went to his house in North Carolina. Incredible guy,

586
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: very very nice guy. He's eighty one years old, sharp

587
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 1: as attack, like just very very intelligent, very you know,

588
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 1: he's just he's just all there. And he he is

589
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: the one who exposed Forrest Carter in nineteen ninety one

590
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:33,719
Speaker 1: with an op ed that he wrote in the New

591
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: York Times, and and it was it was like, what

592
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: who is this guy?

593
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 2: Hold the phone?

594
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: Yeah? And it was before internet, so it was easier

595
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: to do that because there was this you know, there

596
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: were a lot of people that knew, people that knew,

597
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: really knew as of Carter, knew what was going on.

598
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: But it's not like they could go on Facebook and

599
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: tell everybody, oh yeah.

600
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 2: What you mean. It easier to keep it quiet, yeah.

601
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: Or or they were telling you know. So he said

602
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: that when Barbara Walters in the nineteen seventies interviewed Forrest Carter,

603
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: which is wild and there are Dan T. Carter says

604
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: that there are zero audio recordings or video of that.

605
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: Because I asked him I said, hey, where can I

606
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: find that? And he said it doesn't exist. He said,

607
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: back during the seventies, the Good Morning America Show, they

608
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: literally were erasing tape. They would film something and after

609
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: a certain period of time they would erase the tape

610
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: and like reuse it again. And you can't go on YouTube.

611
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 2: You can do.

612
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: I mean, somebody find it. It's not there, but there's

613
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: no video because I was gonna look at that interview

614
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 1: and it was Forest Carter, the Cherokee Indian talking to

615
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: Barbara Walters.

616
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: Yeah that was before VCRs, before any of that recording

617
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 3: capability at home.

618
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and it was there that he uh uh

619
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: like they said Dan Tea Carter said that the lines

620
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 1: lit up at at the Good Morning America Show saying hey,

621
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: that's not Forrest Carter, that's Ace of Carter. And they

622
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: were just like, nah, that's not true. This guy's legitimate

623
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: and there's no way for them to type it in

624
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 1: and check this guy out. What do you think of that?

625
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 1: What do you think of that day?

626
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 4: It's pretty wild, can't help it couldn't happen today, that's

627
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 4: for sure.

628
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: What are the implications do you think of This is

629
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:42,400
Speaker 1: a question everybody. Never before have We've never lived in

630
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: a world where people had this much access to information.

631
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: I mean it makes you wonder what kind of stuff

632
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: has gone on forever before about the year two thousand, with.

633
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 2: People anything that anybody could get away with. Yeah, that's

634
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: what's gone on. I'm sure it's since the first fellow

635
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 2: wanted to trick the other one.

636
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure it's much much more difficult to be

637
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 3: a confidence man now.

638
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

639
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna do a new show called Modern con Man.

640
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: H wild.

641
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: Well, what stood out to you guys about this episode?

642
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: So many wild things and and I'm I'm I'm talking

643
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: a lot here. You know, the section of the speech

644
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: from George Wallace. I debated on putting that in there.

645
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: I asked a couple of people if I should put

646
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: it in there, and they were like, yeah, put it

647
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: in there.

648
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a historical rights.

649
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's it's historical, and this is

650
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 2: these are tales that need to things that need to

651
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: be talked about and discussed. Yeah, I'll tell you what

652
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: I got from that from from the first part. Now,

653
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 2: I think it'll only be solidified by the second part. Obviously,

654
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: I hadn't heard it yet, but people, for that guy

655
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: to be to live that double life, for him to

656
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 2: write such a poignant story and touching, heartfelt story. People

657
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 2: are inherently good, and they choose to be bad. He

658
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: chose to hate other races other than his own. He

659
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 2: chose to be that way. But he obviously had something

660
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: inside him that would fuel that story his mind to

661
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: be able to create such a such a great story,

662
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 2: and it was a great story.

663
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,320
Speaker 1: That's a that's a great that's a great way to

664
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,160
Speaker 1: say it.

665
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: It is.

666
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree. And the big question in my mind

667
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 3: the whole time was is are they seeking some sort

668
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 3: of redemption? Like are you in repentance for all the

669
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 3: negative things that you were doing before? Because he wasn't

670
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 3: the only one, right, I mean, Wallace kind of repented

671
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:56,879
Speaker 3: after as well.

672
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yourself back.

673
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 3: A lot of his. He's trying to like fix his wrongs.

674
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: Right, So you're saying a question in your mind is

675
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: was Forrest Carter quote unquote the way for Asa Carter

676
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: to repent for what.

677
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 3: He did a little bit? Yeah, I mean to go

678
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:17,239
Speaker 3: as far as changing your identity and talking differently and

679
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 3: pretending to be someone completely different you're looking to to

680
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 3: get rid of that past life.

681
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's the question that we're going to talk

682
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: about on the next episode a lot. Because so where

683
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: this came from was when Steve Vanella listened to our

684
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: Where the Redferns Grows podcast where we talked about Wilson Rawls,

685
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: who was the author, this incredible author of Where the

686
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 1: Red Fern Grows. He was kind of a one hit

687
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:50,959
Speaker 1: wonder author and he in the research I've I've found

688
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: that he had gone to prison more than once. Was

689
00:36:54,600 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: wild and that was not talked about when that book

690
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 1: came out. It was not talked about at all. And

691
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: and the crimes were were minor, I mean it was

692
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: not It was larceny of domestic stock, domestic chickens, which

693
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 1: that may not be the full story. You typically don't

694
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: send someone to prison for stealing chickens. So and there

695
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: were and then there was an armed up, not armed

696
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,080
Speaker 1: but there was some burglary, so you know, I mean,

697
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 1: it was clear the guy had a rough early life.

698
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: It was when he was in his twenties, but then

699
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: he ends up writing this book. And so the question

700
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: was was this book away for him to kind of

701
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: fix his past? And it seemed possible this one, I

702
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 1: don't I don't want to. I don't want to give

703
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: away too much. But it's way more complicated when you

704
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 1: hear the whole story. And that's why it's called con

705
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 1: Man and not redemption Man, because it gets pretty wild.

706
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: It gets pretty wild the more you look into you know.

707
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: But that is a great question, great question. What stood

708
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: out to you, Lauren about the about the podcast?

709
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 3: It was a giant twist. You know, I wasn't anticipating

710
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 3: that he was part of a the KKK, you know,

711
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 3: that was what are you talking about? Like, how do

712
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 3: you bridge the gap from an author of Cherokee supposed

713
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,720
Speaker 3: Cherokee Nations to KKK? What are you talking about?

714
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:30,360
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, it is a wild twist, isn't it?

715
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 3: Wild twist?

716
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 2: Yeah?

717
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 3: And you gotta wonder about the motivations, like I don't

718
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 3: you know, like everybody's got their their motivations. So that

719
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,800
Speaker 3: was the big takeaway. What what in the world motivated

720
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 3: this guy? And and you know, obviously it was a

721
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 3: pretty uh well renowned writer ahead of time. It's writing

722
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: speeches and so movies. Yeah, it's mind blowing.

723
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 2: That was crazy.

724
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, were you expecting that no, So he wrote The

725
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: Outlaw Josee Wales, which he titled his book Gone to Texas.

726
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,479
Speaker 1: But Clint Eastwood took the book and turned it into

727
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: a movie called The Outlaw Josee Wales, And that was

728
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: Clint Eastwood's breakout movie. Which is wild because it to

729
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: be a screenwriter and to write a movie. And he

730
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 1: didn't write the movie, but to have a book made

731
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: into a movie, it's a big deal. There was presumably

732
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: a fair bit of money he made from that. And

733
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: then but The Outlaw Josee Wales is an interesting story

734
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,880
Speaker 1: because the protagonist, the guy that you can't help but love,

735
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 1: is a Confederate soldier. Do you remember the story, Brent?

736
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: Did you ever watch that movie?

737
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 2: The movie? Yeah, one hundred times.

738
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: Do you remember the Do you remember the story?

739
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,720
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I remember the story. Yes.

740
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 1: Basically, it's the end of the Civil War and there

741
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: is like one band of Confederates that are hiding out

742
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: that haven't haven't haven't given up, uh, and they're the

743
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 1: Union army is trying to hunt down these these rebels

744
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: and there's a the captain comes to all these Confederate

745
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: rebels and says, hey, guys, the war's over, like, we

746
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: got to give ourselves up. If we give ourselves up

747
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: to this camp down here, everything's gonna be okay. They're

748
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 1: gonna let us go. It's not gonna be a big deal.

749
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,760
Speaker 1: And all the guys agree to go except for Josie Wales,

750
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 1: and you know, he's like, I ain't going. And well,

751
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 1: all those guys go down there, and it turns out

752
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 1: it's a trap. Yeah, the the Confederate General that all

753
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: these guys trusted had been paid off. And they go

754
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: down there and rather than giving them what do you

755
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: call it when you're you're forgiven of crime, clemency brether

756
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: giving them clemency, they kill him. They kill all these guys.

757
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: And Jesse Wales is up in the mountains and he

758
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 1: hears the gunfire and he sees what's happening and he

759
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: goes down and anyway, the whole thing is this Confederate

760
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: soldier that you know has been burned by the system

761
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: and everybody cheated him, and he goes into Comanche country.

762
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: So and and it's always about the hating the establishment.

763
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: That was that that's in everything that Ace had touched

764
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: was that the government will burn you. And oh, it

765
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 1: gets so wild in this next episode because you're going

766
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: to see how that fits back into this deep racism

767
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:52,439
Speaker 1: that he he bought into. It'll all make sense. But Dave,

768
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 1: what stood out to you about it?

769
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 4: I thought, Yeah, I mean I had the same question

770
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 4: these guys. Was his uh was in this looking for redemption?

771
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 4: But the story with I'm totally spacing on the guy's name. Now,

772
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 4: who had the key to the songbox?

773
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 3: Uh?

774
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: Coon Jack?

775
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 4: Coonjack?

776
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 2: Yeah?

777
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:21,160
Speaker 4: And I wonder if in a way, like he was

778
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 4: trying to use coon Jack as like a metaphor for.

779
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: Himself, tells tell us about Coonjack?

780
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 4: He you know, uh, he had been fighting his whole

781
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 4: life and and.

782
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: This was a story that this is inside the book

783
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: The Education of a Little Bit. Yes, the grandfather was

784
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 1: telling little Tree, who's the little grandson, a story from

785
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 1: his childhood, and he tells the story of this old

786
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 1: man named coon Jack.

787
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 4: So go ahead then, Yeah, and Konjack had been fighting

788
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 4: his whole life and now was just and uh, the

789
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 4: end of it was, you know, you have to know

790
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 4: someone or he loved him after that because he knew

791
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 4: who he was, right, you know, knew where he came

792
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 4: from and kind of understood him and so and that

793
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 4: was the whole uh yeah, trying to put that thought

794
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 4: together now, you know. So then it was really interesting

795
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 4: that he put that in there, being this clan leader, right,

796
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 4: like you have to know somebody to love him. And

797
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 4: then like so it was just like I wonder if

798
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 4: Konjack was kind of a metaphor for himself. But then

799
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 4: also like yeah, so, yeah, he's really interesting.

800
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: He thinks Koonjack basically grew up in the Civil War

801
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 1: and then the government took his land and he stayed

802
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: and fought for his land. And so Konjack is this

803
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,359
Speaker 1: old man embittered that wants to fight everybody, and he

804
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 1: wants to fight the He pulls a he basically shows

805
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 1: a pistol at church when the guys he said, there

806
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: have been people talking bad about him. By the way,

807
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:02,600
Speaker 1: picked up he had the key to the songbook box.

808
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: And so coon Jack flashes a pistol in church and says, hey,

809
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: I'll use this on anybody that says I'm doing this wrong.

810
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: And Grandpa's dad, Little Tree's great grandfather stands up and

811
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 1: just just smooths the situation over, gives a lot of

812
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: dignity the coon Jack and says we're so sorry. You've

813
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 1: done a fantastic job at the songbook box, you quepe

814
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: doing it, and the way that he handles it with

815
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: such wisdom and grace and empathy is pretty touching. And

816
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 1: that's why it's so wild to read all this stuff

817
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,879
Speaker 1: from that written basic carter because this guy, I mean,

818
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 1: I couldn't have made up that story. That would have

819
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: shown the deep intricacies of somebody that's really broken and hurt,

820
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: and a very understanding, empathetic response to that brokenness that

821
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 1: actually should help the broken person. Because the great grandfather

822
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: stands up and goes, coon Jack, you're doing a great job.

823
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:07,279
Speaker 1: We love you, and then Grandpa, great Grandpa. It's kind

824
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: of confusing, but basically the old man then tells the

825
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: young boy, we love people. You can only love someone

826
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: if you understand him. So this is what's going on

827
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 1: with coon Jack, and we love him.

828
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 2: It's like and it made a statement that that you know,

829
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 2: why why did he get to upset over that? And

830
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,240
Speaker 2: he's he said that the key to this home box

831
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 2: is all he has. Yeah, so that was his that

832
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 2: was his reason for being his his focus in life

833
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 2: and something that he could call his own and have

834
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 2: have power over it because he he lost his land,

835
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 2: he lost the war, you know everything, He had lost everything,

836
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,280
Speaker 2: his whole life, and you know it would be different

837
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 2: if this was a true story. But this can't mate

838
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 2: all that stuff up. Yeah, that's that's what gets me.

839
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah that, I mean, a beautiful way to explain something

840
00:45:58,880 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: like that.

841
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the book, I was the hardest part of

842
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 1: a podcast like this is trying to find you know,

843
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 1: I can't read the whole book on the podcast. That

844
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: would have been cool if just every single person that

845
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 1: listened to this podcast had read the whole book. Couldn't happen.

846
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 1: So I just cherry picked maybe like four or five

847
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 1: sections to read that stood out to me. If you'd

848
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: have read it, Brent, I promise you, you wouldn't have picked

849
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: the ones that I picked. Like those weren't even the

850
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: high points. Because when I interviewed Steve Ranella, who's a

851
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 1: guest on the podcast and a main player on the

852
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 1: next podcast too, he was talking about stuff that I

853
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 1: didn't even remember in our talk. He would go, but

854
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,359
Speaker 1: what about the story about that? And I'd be like, oh,

855
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: I forgot about that, Like you know, so you just

856
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 1: pick up on different things and so I was just

857
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: trying to like highlight these places where you see that

858
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: this author was connected authentically to human nature and what

859
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: appeared to be really genuine love and empathy for people.

860
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: And I mean, there's our wild question is how do

861
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: you get access to that? I thought it was such

862
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: a great to me. It made sense because Steve said

863
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: when he reads the book the Things about Nature, it's

864
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: full of really great stuff. Fox hunting, you know, they

865
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: trap turkeys. They there's a lot of stuff about nature

866
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:31,479
Speaker 1: and the mountains and predation and the way. I read

867
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: the part about the Way on the podcast. There's a

868
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 1: section called the Way, and the Way is the Cherokee

869
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: descriptor of the way of life. And he talks about

870
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: how the hawk catches the slow quail so that the

871
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 1: slow quail doesn't make more slow quail, so only the

872
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: fast quail survive. And then the hawk most of the

873
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: time catches the mice and the rodents that raid the

874
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: nests of the quail, and so talcon the hawk it

875
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: actually helps the quail. And that's the way. The way

876
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: he talks to Little Tree about white tailed deer management,

877
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: which totally goes against what we would do today, but

878
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: he told. He told little Tree to not shoot the

879
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 1: biggest deer, but to shoot the smallest one, to shoot

880
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,680
Speaker 1: the smaller, weaker deer, and let the let the big

881
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: ones go, he told, he said, only take what you need.

882
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: And he said the reason there are wars and their

883
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: strife in the world is because people take more than

884
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,320
Speaker 1: they need, and they spend their lives trying to protect

885
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 1: the excess. And he said, if people only took what

886
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: they needed, we wouldn't have all these problems.

887
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 2: In the world. Who can argue with that?

888
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: And and and they call that the way and and

889
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,359
Speaker 1: and then this is like a writing thing that when

890
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: you see it, you're just like you want it, Little

891
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 1: Tree says, And I knew that, Grandpa, and I knew

892
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: something that most people didn't. He always was throwing that

893
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 1: in there, that they just kind of had this thing

894
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: that like they had this thing figured out and the

895
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: rest of the world didn't. And h and so Steve

896
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: had said, I'm kind of on a rabbit trail there.

897
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,760
Speaker 1: But in that as as Asa Carter described the natural world,

898
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: he Steve was like, that guy had been in the mountains,

899
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: that guy had been fox hunting, that guy had plowed

900
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 1: with a mule. That guy had grown corn, That guy

901
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: had had picked ripe watermelons to understand what they're ripe.

902
00:49:36,480 --> 00:49:40,760
Speaker 1: That guy had made moonshine or been been around moonshine,

903
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:45,640
Speaker 1: and he's he said that was authentic. Well, when I

904
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: read the stuff about empathy and human nature, it's like

905
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:54,240
Speaker 1: this guy was deeply in touch, more probably than most,

906
00:49:54,600 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: more than me, with with with how people operate, which

907
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: Darren lots of questions. It's kind of fascinating. Who is

908
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,520
Speaker 1: this guy? Why was he so crazy? How could he

909
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: do that? How was he connected to that kind of

910
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 1: authenticity but still connected with all this wild stuff?

911
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:11,439
Speaker 2: He was.

912
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: Very intriguing, very intriguing, Yeah, for sure.

913
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,240
Speaker 4: And then how do we grapple with that today?

914
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 2: Right?

915
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 4: Like, how do we take that book today? And like

916
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 4: do we just blacklist it or do we you know,

917
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 4: take the book for what it is, but you know,

918
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 4: recognize that it's not autobiographical and.

919
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 2: It was very who was it?

920
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 4: Look at who was written by?

921
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, so what do you think, Dave, if you

922
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:45,359
Speaker 1: had kids, what do you let your kids read it?

923
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 1: Knowing what you know?

924
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, probably, but you know I'd like to

925
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 4: wait until they're maybe a little bit older, and then

926
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:59,720
Speaker 4: they can kind of so you can kind of understand

927
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 4: and start to explain some of the complexities of it. Yeah,

928
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 4: you know, explain like who this guy was in what

929
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 4: this book is and what it's not. Yeah, you know,

930
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 4: it's not a historical piece. It's not. But it's a

931
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 4: story and it has good lessons in it. But this

932
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 4: guy that wrote it did some terrible things.

933
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:25,279
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. What about you, Lauren? What do you think?

934
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 3: That's a good question, you know, do you tell him

935
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 3: who the author really was? Do you give him the

936
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 3: book and just have them experience it for what it

937
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 3: is and don't say anything. Yeah you know, I mean

938
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 3: and maybe later bring that up or share the podcast

939
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 3: with him, so that that is their education and enlightenment

940
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 3: after reading the book. Yeah, you know, I don't know.

941
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think, Brent?

942
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 2: What? To me, a good story is a good story,

943
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 2: And I don't have to buy into his politics or

944
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 2: his philosophy on life, or his judgment of other people's

945
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 2: if I'm if if that story is a good story

946
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 2: and entertaining, I don't care who wrote it, because I

947
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,680
Speaker 2: don't go anything further than the last page. That's that's

948
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 2: the time to put that book down and pick up

949
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 2: another one. To me, that is, and I wouldn't have

950
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 2: any problem at all reading it to my children because

951
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: anything that if that book is the way you say

952
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 2: it is, and I trust your judgment that it's a

953
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,800
Speaker 2: poignant story about life of a little person. It's fictional.

954
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 2: It's not made out to be autobiographical. That I is

955
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:38,280
Speaker 2: that correct?

956
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 1: Well, it's he wrote it as like based on a

957
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: true story.

958
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 2: Okay, well then then then then I would start the

959
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 2: book off that this is not true, this is this

960
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 2: is just a this is just a fun story, and

961
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 2: we're going to read it.

962
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: Sweetie, I want you to read this book. It was

963
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:54,960
Speaker 1: written by a con man.

964
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:57,319
Speaker 4: Podcast.

965
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how I look at it.

966
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: You know, the bigger question we get into into the

967
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 1: second episode. You should have just skipped this render and

968
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: listened to the second. But we talk about does character

969
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:17,799
Speaker 1: matter because and the bottom line is that in some

970
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: places it does. In some places, well, well, the character

971
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 1: matters everywhere. What I'm saying is, could you get something

972
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: from a source that lacked character because the the book

973
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 1: standing alone and somebody might read it and have problems

974
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: with something, you know, uh, that other people wouldn't. I mean,

975
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: you know, it's not like I buy into the the

976
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: cosmology of the Native Americans. I mean that's there, that's

977
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 1: their stories and stuff just about the creation of the

978
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,359
Speaker 1: earth and all this stuff. Like I'm not I'm not

979
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 1: getting behind that. But what I am saying is that

980
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: it there. The book has legitimately got some great stuff

981
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: in it, but there are places in life where you

982
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:14,239
Speaker 1: don't want anything from something that comes from a very

983
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: flawed source. And we're going to talk about that kind

984
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 1: of stuff on the next podcast. Lots of foreshadowy, lots

985
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 1: of foreshadowing on this one, lots of foreshado. But no

986
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: I would. I would let my kids read the book. Now,

987
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 1: whether I would tell them about it right away or not,

988
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:36,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, because it's so hard to read the book,

989
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,879
Speaker 1: and I've spoiled it for everyone. But it's so hard

990
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,000
Speaker 1: to read the book with this knowledge and really take

991
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: in the book as you would if you knew nothing,

992
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: if you didn't know anything, you just read it, you

993
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,319
Speaker 1: would you would might come away with with different conclusions

994
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:58,919
Speaker 1: about it. But but nobody was. You don't be mad

995
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: at me because you weren't going to read this book

996
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three, because that's a joke. You're supposed

997
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: to laugh. Yes, it was on my book list. No

998
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: it wasn't, because it was the blacklisting of that book

999
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 1: when Oprah took it off her book list in two

1000
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: thousand and seven, and when which was years after it

1001
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: came out, which is kind of interesting. It took a

1002
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 1: while for it to like trickle through the world. It

1003
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,400
Speaker 1: people just haven't read it. And so I on the

1004
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: podcast talked to Steve about how I had a difficult

1005
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: time finding an academic person that would talk to me. Now,

1006
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: now Dan T. Carter talked to me about Asa Carter.

1007
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 1: But Dante Carter is not necessarily an expert on the

1008
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,480
Speaker 1: book The Education at Little True. Typically you can find

1009
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 1: an academic expert on a piece of literature, for instance,

1010
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:52,799
Speaker 1: on Where the Red Fern Grows. I interviewed a guy

1011
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: at the University of Arkansas that was like, heck, yeah,

1012
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: this is this is in my field of literature. You know,

1013
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: have students read this book, Yes, I will talk to you.

1014
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: We sent out emails everywhere and just got nothing from anybody.

1015
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 1: And at first, well the one person that did respond said, hey,

1016
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: you know, this book has been blacklisted, right, And I

1017
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,239
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, that's why I want to talk about it.

1018
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: And but so I couldn't understand if people didn't want

1019
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,240
Speaker 1: to do it because it was blacklisted, or if because

1020
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: it was blacklisted nobody read it and knew about it.

1021
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 1: There's two reasons why people wouldn't have emailed me back.

1022
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:35,359
Speaker 1: You understand.

1023
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 2: Did you resolve that in any fashion? None?

1024
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:42,399
Speaker 1: And it's it's totally anecdotal because you know that there'll

1025
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,879
Speaker 1: probably be people that write in and be like, well,

1026
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: I'm a literature professor and would have been glad to

1027
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: have talked to you. But the typical amount of work

1028
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: that we put into trying to find the best sources

1029
00:56:55,440 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 1: for interviewees about topics and and we do, me and

1030
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 1: me and Isaac, We put a lot of work into

1031
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 1: finding really great guests. We could not find on this one.

1032
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:09,279
Speaker 1: We were like scratching our heads. Steve was actually like

1033
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: option B. Steve Vanella was like the B team. I

1034
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: was like, well okay, Steve, go ahead, No he and

1035
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 1: he was fantastic. Was Steve's idea originally this podcast. Steve

1036
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 1: read this book back in college and then he he

1037
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: after listening to Where the Red fern Grows said, Hey,

1038
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 1: you ought to do one on educational litlty. I didn't

1039
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: know about the book. Steve knew you. I never heard

1040
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: of it, and uh no, Steve was great man. He read,

1041
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: he re read the book, and so he was coming

1042
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: hot off of rereading the book and he did better

1043
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: than an academic. Well he Steve is a literary I'd

1044
00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:52,960
Speaker 1: call him a literary expert in most most most types

1045
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 1: of literature. He's able to critique it and so anyway,

1046
00:57:56,080 --> 00:58:02,760
Speaker 1: he was fantastic. H Well, guys.

1047
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 2: Closing thoughts, looking forward to the next episode. If if

1048
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 2: there is a bigger twist coming in the second episode

1049
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 2: as there was in the first, if it was three episodes,

1050
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be able to.

1051
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: Take it, wouldn't be able to take it.

1052
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was It was cool. It's definitely got me

1053
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 3: hooked and wanting to listen to the second.

1054
00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 2: Great.

1055
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 4: I'd like to read the book too. Yeah, yeah, I

1056
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 4: wonder if is it hard to find?

1057
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 1: No You get by on Amazon.

1058
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 4: It's going to be on the New York Times bestseller

1059
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 4: list again.

1060
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 1: Podcast No shoot Man, you can get it on They're

1061
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: giving them away for free on paperback man on Amazon

1062
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: we're trying to get we're trying to liquidate these things. Well, hey,

1063
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: listen to this Country Life with Brent Reeves. It's going

1064
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 1: to be great. You've already heard one episode that's come

1065
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: out before this one, but it's going to be every

1066
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: Friday we'll be able to hear it. Thank you guys

1067
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 1: for listening to the bear Groase Render, and we'll see

1068
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 1: you next time.

1069
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 4: It's gonna eat some catfish.

1070
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:11,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're about to fry some catfish and turkey breasts.

1071
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 2: Get the grease Hig